Matt LaCroix Unveiling Secrets of Lost Civilizations

[Speaker 2] (0:00 - 1:19) Welcome back to Here for the Truth. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for listening. I'm Joel Rafiti. I've got my co-host Erasmus with me. Today, we have Matt LaCroix, who is an ancient historian joining us. He has some incredible insights. He's made some incredible discoveries and connected some amazing dots in his research and really piecing back together the incredibleness of the human story and the amnesia that we have around it. So, this is a fascinating episode. The history buffs are absolutely going to have a field day with this one for sure. Right before we get into Matt, I just want to remind everyone about our membership community, Friends of the Truth. This is an incredible place, incredible value, offering six calls a month. Our people are coming together. And what I love most, bro, is that the community is so self-sufficient now. Questions are being answered on so many fronts by the incredible members that we have and the vast knowledge that exists, even just within our members on so many levels, whether it's Esoterica or Germany Medicine or Health and Wellbeing or Geopolitics. We've got Gavin Nascimento in there, dropping truth bombs on geopolitics and conspiracy and informing our members. It is so rich. It is such a rich place. [Speaker 3] (1:20 - 1:38) I agree, man. I absolutely love it. It keeps growing. Exciting to see how it's going to unfold. And so, yeah, for anyone listening that wants to come hang out with us in our community and get into these conversations and laugh and get deep, I mean, you hear us talk about it on this podcast often, just check out friendsofthetruth.co. Yeah, absolutely. [Speaker 2] (1:40 - 1:54) A, if you love what we do, you get to support us. And B, you get insane value in return just to really empower yourself on this journey. But so, friendsofthetruth.co, link in the show notes. Enjoy this episode. [Speaker 3] (1:55 - 2:02) You are now listening to the Year for the Truth podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Yerasimos. [Speaker 2] (2:05 - 3:07) Matt LaCroix is an author, ancient history researcher, and a media creator who has extensively studied the secrets of lost civilizations, megaliths, planetary cycles, and ancient texts for well over a decade. This journey of uncovering the secrets from these mysterious lost civilizations and striving to understand our ancient origins would forever change his life, putting him on a path that would eventually lead him to making a major discovery in Eastern Turkey in early 2023, where he found evidence of a previously unknown civilization that showed signs of being highly sophisticated in megalithic building, as well as culturally and spiritually advanced. As the scope of the discoveries grew, it became apparent that sites like Ayanas may not contain, may not only contain the first cross, but could very well be the oldest temple on earth, connecting back to the origins of nearly every lost civilization around the world, from Peru and Bolivia to Egypt and China. Matt, welcome to Year for the Truth, man. [Speaker 1] (3:08 - 3:21) Hey guys, it's great to be here, have this conversation. Yerasimos and I got met a few months ago and we really hit it off having a fantastic conversations and he invited me on. So, Joel, it's great to meet you too, and I'm looking forward to our conversation. [Speaker 2] (3:22 - 3:27) Yeah, for sure, man. I feel sorry for you that you had to experience meeting Yerasimos in person. That must have really sucked, huh? [Speaker 1] (3:27 - 3:34) No, he's great. He's awesome. We met actually during the eclipse down in Texas. Yeah, man. It was a fun event. Cool. [Speaker 2] (3:35 - 3:50) Matt, one way we always like to kick off conversations is we want to get deep into your personal hero's journey. I guess what were the major catalyzing moments, some of the pivotal moments that really ignited your passion for this work and led you down this path in general? [Speaker 1] (3:51 - 13:20) Yeah. For me, going back to the very beginning, I was that wide-eyed kid staring out into the cosmos, wondering in amazement and awe of everything around me. I remember specifically always wondering or being frustrated because a lot of kids that I knew and spent time with, they didn't care. I was asking all these questions about the vastness of the universe and stars and different things and about our world around me, trees and animals, and a lot of people didn't really care. I was surprised by that. I was like, what am I? Am I an alien here? Am I someone that doesn't belong here? I've always been that kind of person, unusual on a lot of the areas. I think that unusualness was a natural progression for me to go into these deeper questions and deeper things that I had almost been obsessed with as a kid. I remember seeing movies and different documentaries and shows about lost civilizations. Everything you can imagine, the scope of media where just some kind of a civilization that is all covered up in jungle or lost somewhere, but it used to have a whole culture, a rich culture that was there once, but then what happened to that? Why did it become abandoned and lost? Then those questions built and really built a lot until eventually when I was in college, I was reading Robert Temple's book, The Serious Mystery. It talks all about this group called Dogon in Africa. It's like a remote tribe who had been visited in 1930s by anthropologists who, to their amazement, this group that was very isolated, they had this higher social system of what they call elder priests. They were basically protecting a story, this story and this legacy. You found out that these elder priests would be designated during generations of groups far back, you would be assigned to be one of these elder priests and you would have to be in isolation your entire life because the information they had was so important that they felt like it'd be too easily polluted and altered over time. It was like their whole story. The anthropologist was fascinated by this that he had to stay with this group called the Dogon for years and years until they finally trusted him enough and they told him everything. What they told him became this very well-selling and very popular book called The Serious Mystery by Robert Temple. If you two guys haven't heard of it, it's behind me on the bookcase. What's so fascinating about that, and again, I'm telling you this because I think it was my catalyst that led me into everything that I'm doing. What you find out is that the Dogon not only knew all of our solar system, but they knew an entire other solar system, a star system called Canis Major, specifically the Sirius system with Sirius A, B and C. Today, we only know of Sirius A and B, but back then, they had only discovered Sirius A before the 1930s, before radio telescopes and everything were invented. The Dogon knew the entire star system. Not only that, they knew the exact orbital tracks of how everything basically moves around, but that wasn't it. They knew astrophysics information about our solar system that they shouldn't know. They didn't have a telescope. They knew all kinds of planetary distances and alignments that was bizarre and didn't make any sense, but it went on even another step further. They had told all about how a traveling sage called, well, basically from ancient Mesopotamia is known as a Wanus, but it's like a fish-like suit. You can see it's really weird and bizarre, but his name, the name of that was called the Nomo. It was like this traveling group, and they state that the Nomo had taught them everything that they know. All of these traditions, all this star information, but their depths of knowledge went into even things like natural law and understanding all these components that they shouldn't have known as a remote tribe, but they didn't say that they're the ones who came up with it. They say it came from this traveling being called the Nomo. That was their name for it. Now, when that whole thing emerged, you learned that the Dogon had originally come from Egypt, and that they were part of a group that had traveled out there long ago, and they had an ancient connection to Egypt. This story started to unravel, and as a young guy in college, I was reading this book, and the conclusions you essentially come to is it would have been impossible that this remote tribe could have understood what they knew about the star systems and about everything around them without this influence. The more you dig into who the Nomo is, the more you go into a story, a story that you can't look away from once you've seen it. It's something that when you understand it and you look at it, it unlocks something in you that basically disrupts your entire paradigm that you previously had of your understanding of how far back human civilizations go, how old our story is, who we really are. If there's entire chapters that we were missing that have risen and fallen with civilizations and knowledge, and we have actually forgotten a lot of what we used to know. This idea of non-linear gradualism of either information or anything like history is what became the framework of my research, is understanding who is the Nomo, where do they get their information from, and obviously it's not at all like the story that we're told. It unlocked this whole journey for me. I went through things like working at mapping companies in towns, but I was always writing and doing my own thing with lost civilizations and ancient stuff. It's really like fighting for something that's deep inside you that no matter how hard it is, even though you don't have money coming in, even though it's something that you're sacrificing a lot of your time, for me it was like a calling. It was like this voice inside me that I couldn't quiet of an understanding of something greater that was connected to very important things in our past that seemed to be very important for my personal journey to follow down and was of great interest to me. Subsequently, I had a lot of very unusual experiences throughout after that went on in my life that then led me into doing this professionally is my entire life. I literally live and breathe this now. That's what I do is undercovering the mysteries of this forgotten chapter or chapters in our story when the greatest temples and pyramids and the greatest civilizations in my opinion that have ever lived, that had existed in our past, but had been completely wiped out, destroyed. Then we were left with the remnants and scraps of them, but we don't really understand who they are or in some cases even acknowledging that they exist. That's really where my spark for that and big call out to Robert Temple. That book was, I mean, if you want to read a book that will put you on that, for me, that was a big spark. Do you guys ever seen a movie, The Truman Show? Yeah. There's a famous scene in there when Jim Carrey is walking down the street and he starts to see all the people doing the same things everywhere and he starts questioning the reality he lives in. That moment of him questioning the entire reality of what he exists in, it all comes to this single moment where you see a light ball from the sky and hit the ground. Do you guys remember that scene? It's watch that movie and you pause it exactly on when he looks, because it's an Easter egg. He picks up the light. It's like a light fixture and he picks it up to read, to look at it. The camera shows it super, super quickly. You can't see it at all if you weren't to pause it right at the right moment. What it says on that light is Sirius Canis Major, the same star system from the Dogon in the Sirius mystery of unlocking all these things that don't make sense. For me, on my journey of that being my catalyst and then seeing that on the light, what can I talk about? Blow your mind. I mean, why else would they do that? It's a moment of realization of an entire different paradigm of reality that's around you. It so happens to be the exact same thing that's related to not only the Dogon, but you learned that the Great Pyramid of Giza, the Queen's Chamber, this massive, massive shaft that basically is a star shaft. It's not even an air shaft. They used to think that, but it's a star shaft. It points directly to Sirius as the Queen's energy, and then the King energy, the masculine energy is pointed towards Orion. But those are the two primary star systems that the Egyptians were aligning the Great Pyramid to. [Speaker 3] (13:21 - 13:28) Well, now give us a summary of the last 20,000, 30,000 years, okay? And begin. That's wild, man. That's wild, dude. [Speaker 2] (13:29 - 13:33) I love it. So, I guess the question begs, who is the nomo? [Speaker 1] (13:34 - 19:42) Okay. Well, that's a great way to segment into this. Now, originally, I will say, and again, if anybody, whoever thinks this, that's fine of the progression of ideas of what something is, it usually always starts as aliens. Like always, oh, look, he's got a weird suit on. That's like an alien that came and visited here, and then that's where the story goes. Well, that's not a bad place to start. It's just not where I think it really ends up once you understand it deeper. Now, what you find out, you guys ready to go down this rabbit hole? Let's go, man. You find out that if you look at the nomo, now everyone's listening to this, it's N-O-M-M-O. If you look at the nomo, what you see is a fish hat, okay? And the mouth is kind of open, and it forms this certain kind of hat. And you find out that that's the exact, that hat became the miter hat that the Pope wears. So, you're like, whoa, wait a minute. And you also find out that the fish suit just represents the age of Pisces. So, it's a depiction of dropping knowledge and passing during the age of Pisces. Now, that actually ended up being a very important moment for me within the last year, because I realized that if that's the case, and we're not talking about this previous age of Pisces that we just had, then it likely means that that figure was shown that way because he was probably coming during a previous age of Pisces. So, it's like a symbolic way to show something. And I did the math really quickly. If you factor in that each age, right, each age, zodiac age is 2,100 years, and a great year is about 26,000. It's like 25,800 years. Then it would mean that that time that that happened with the Dogon, where they learned about that, if that theory is true, it would have been like 27,000 years ago. 27,000, 28,000 years ago, right? I think that's right if I do some do the math. So, I was like, wait a minute. So, is that a benchmark for telling us when this happened? But the first consensus is like, no way, it can't be that old. There's no way that it's that long ago. Well, the more that I've been looking into stories and timelines and history of what we're talking about right now, it's actually not so far fetched. And let me tell you why. The Nomo is an exact replica of another figure in ancient Mesopotamia, ancient Sumerian civilization, first civilization ever in history, right? That came out of the ancient area of the Euphrates and Tigris rivers where it dumps into the Persian Gulf. It was an ancient land, and it was a place where everything seems to have begun, but I think a lot earlier than we're told. Now, if you look into that civilization, and you look into Oannes, O-A-N-N-E-S, you find out that Oannes is the exact same, and I mean exactly the same. What they look like, all of it is exactly the same as the Nomo. And you go, well, who is Oannes? And then you, that's just how you follow, this is how you follow the path of understanding something. You say, well, who is Oannes? And then you find out that Oannes was the greatest sage in ancient Mesopotamian history. The greatest sage. Okay, so a sage, like an ancient priest, like a teacher, okay? And then you're like, well, that's interesting because we see that same concept of a great sage in basically every civilization throughout history. I mean, where Joel, where you're coming from in Mexico, we would simply use the name Kukulkan to the Maya. That was their sage that was teaching them all the knowledge of creating all the temples and all the incredible things that they knew before they became corrupt in another iteration of their civilizations much later. But to be clear, we see that all around the world. And I think that same concept of like a highly enlightened being, sage, right? You see it with Buddha, you see it with Jesus, you see it with Krishna, you see it all around the world. Hermes, Thoth in Egypt, it's this constant concept of an extremely wise being that travels with a group, usually seven, like the seven colors of visible light spectrum. Usually it's always described as seven of these teachers and stages that their job is to travel around and diffuse information and knowledge. And then what they do is they have this very specific symbol they show to pass it. They call it planting the seeds, the seeds, the seeds of something, right? So they show a pine cone and they'll show passing it to like the where the pineal gland is in the back, right? And they'll show it like how they're passing the seeds of something very specifically that can grow and turn it into something you couldn't imagine. I mean, imagine what could you do if, let's give you an example for Kukulkan. The group that's indigenous to Mexico it's a very specific group that doesn't have like facial hair. They don't have genetics that share the same exact lineage of saying like they came from another place. We know that they've been there a long time, okay? We know that those groups there have been there a long time. So imagine Kukulkan arriving, right? To Mexico as it's described and finding like a primitive people that's living out there. Maybe fishing out, fishing off the coast there, living in the, you know, just in inland where the cenotes are because if anybody doesn't know about that karst landscape, there's no rivers in the Yucatan at all. There's no rivers. It's the only source of fresh water is through these cenotes. So those would be sacred and all these different things. But imagine a group that's primitive having someone in another group come in and basically teaching them everything. I mean, everything. [Speaker 2] (19:43 - 19:52) What's interesting is that seven numerologically is all about spirituality, wisdom, mysticism, the mystery, the unknown, et cetera, et cetera. [Speaker 1] (19:53 - 29:33) It's like they did everything in a physical representation that was also like metaphysical. Everything. Everything was like a symbolic aspect of something greater. It was really, the whole thing is there's no, it's not by accident. And you go deeper into it and you find out, well, so Kukulkan was teaching the Maya all these amazing things. Like if you guys know that, like the temple of Kukulkan, right? The main temple that we see there with nine levels, like a completion number, you find out that during the equinoxes, right? And well, during the spring and fall equinoxes, you have a feather serpent shape that basically the shadows create coming down the steps to the bottom only in two times a year during the spring and fall equinox. That's the only time that happens. You're talking about Chichen Itza, right? Yeah. Yep. That's the temple of Kukulkan. And that signifies, think about it, a perfect design, perfect design with that step pyramid to be aligned, to have specific celestial components where the sun can hit a certain moments and create these perfect scenarios where it's talking about different alignments and conscious cycles and celestial connections. They understood all that and they built all those things based on those celestial counterpoints, those connections as above, so below. The problem is that the Maya, much later in their history, even if we even call the original group, the Maya, we don't even know. We don't know if that's the group that originally built it. We just know that the Maya was the last group that was living there. That culture became completely corrupted and changed into a violent culture that didn't represent where they started. Now, at the same time, further west with the Aztec and Toltec, that's the same thing. Quetzalcoatl, their sage god, is the exact same thing as Kukulkan. They're identical. They're the same being. They're the same group, same person, just traveling to another region and then creating other things. In that realm of central Mexico, you have a place called Teotihuacan. Amazing, amazing place that has a pyramid of the sun, a pyramid of the moon, and a pyramid of Quetzalcoatl. You find out that the alignment of those exactly mimics the stars above for the three bell stars of Orion. They were creating a celestial counterpoint in our solar system for the earth, the sun, the moon to mimic those three bell stars. Now, on the other side of the world in Egypt, you find out that the great pyramids of Giza, the three, are exactly aligned to the same pyramidal complex of Teotihuacan, exactly mirroring the three, the sun, the moon, and the temple of Quetzalcoatl there, the same representation. You see the same thing aligned with the three bell stars of Orion above. Two different parts of the world, completely different parts of the world, both aligned to those star systems. And you find out that Thoth, the Egyptian god there, the sage wise teacher, is identical to Quetzalcoatl. So you're like, whoa, so what is going on right now? Are they traveling around and creating all these civilizations? Well, go back to the Aztec. They don't say they built Teotihuacan. They're like, nope. Listen, we just found it, all right? We just found it, and we built on top of it. And yeah, it's pretty amazing stuff, but we didn't build it. They didn't build that place just like they didn't build Tenochtitlan either. That was basically turned into Mexico City after it was conquered. They found it. And that's the same thing we see all around the world. So be very careful to associate those civilizations with the ones who even built them. Because the Aztec went down a very dark road too, blood sacrifice and all kinds of terrible things. But that actually has a huge effect on how people see and view these places and what their purposes were. Because it didn't start at all like that. And I want to go another level beyond that. So then going further south, go to South America. You have a god there called Amaru, okay? It's the same thing. It's the exact same thing as Quetzalcoatl and Kukulcan. Well, you then find out that the name Amaruca is meaning the land of the feathered or plumed serpents. So in this way, it's talking about this symbolic journey of a serpent turning into a dragon. It's a journey of us becoming more enlightened and turning into a higher form, right? Well, you find out, it gets even crazier, that the name Amaruca is the original name for America. That's where the name America came from. The name that we're told came from an Italian explorer, whatever his name is, the Italian explorer. That was actually not true. That was a false piece of information that all the indigenous people here know where that name came from. It came from their name, Amaruca, the land of the feathered or the feathered serpents. It wasn't talking about a real feathered serpent. What it was talking about is like a great teacher, the dragon, the great dragon of Kukulcan and Quetzalcoatl. It was basically like if you were to imagine if the serpent represents a human that doesn't have its potential unlocked yet and is still learning and understanding, and then you take its metamorphosis into the dragon, it represents like its metamorphosis into the highest form of all. That's why the ancient Hermetic text, Poinmandering the Dragon, is talking about the dragon being like a celestial counterpoint to the highest level form of intelligence in the universe. Even the dragon itself has been really misrepresented throughout history, as well as the serpent, for what they originally had meant in these cultures. Now, I want to add one more thing. You guys know the flag of Mexico? That was not the original flag of the Aztec and pre-Aztec cultures. The story of that is actually also a lie. That flag was enacted after it was conquered by the conquistadors. When they came over, they conquered the region. Of course, Cortes is famous for conquering Mexico. Well, you learned that the crest of the Spanish empire was an eagle. The flag is showing an eagle eating a serpent. It's like conquering the serpent civilizations in America. It's like a way to leave behind that to show what happened here. You can see that all around the world. It's this underbelly of knowledge and history of what's happened here that people don't think is connected or it's real. That's something that I track and look into the ancient side of this. Before we get too far off track, I know what I was saying there is that Quetzalcoatl, Cucucon, and Amaru are all the same being, the same teacher. Just like the Nomo is the same in Mesopotamia. You can track all of that all around the world. What we're talking about here is a lost time in history when there seemed to be masters, great masters of everything that understood things that we can't even fully comprehend today. They seem to be traveling around and creating civilizations for a very specific purpose and imparting this deep, incredible knowledge to them. I think they were responsible for creating the greatest civilizations that have ever existed. The problem was that those civilizations hit a massive, massive set of catastrophes 12,000 years ago during what's called the Younger Dryas when the last Ice Age ended. That time period is when I believe we see evidence around the world that they were wiped out, wiped off the planet. The only people that survived are either some of the survivors of that, which there weren't that many, but the indigenous people that lived in a primitive way in the jungles and deep end, they're the ones who did fine. They're the ones who emerged sometimes maybe thousands of years later, we don't know, and found these ruins and then built on top of them. That's what we see all around the world is this story of this rise and then fall and then rise slowly and even falling again of our civilizations and our knowledge over time, which is what's created so much confusion with even who we are and how far back we go and what we used to be, what we used to know. That's why when I study all these things, all these lost civilizations, it's like it's unlocking something. Every place has similarities. Everything has things they were doing on purpose that is shared by others, the same symbols, the same teachers, the same celestial connections. They seem to all be doing something and we can get into that as we go along. What they were trying to do that we have seemed to have forgotten and it really has disconnected us from both the natural world and the universe to the point where we're now finding our way back to that. [Speaker 2] (29:35 - 29:37) Will Barron Wow, man. Amazing. Thank you so much for that. [Speaker 3] (29:39 - 29:49) Yeah, go. Jonathan Well, I just want to ask them real quickly and then you can ask your question. In terms of these great civilizations, the timeline, are you looking at like 20 plus years ago? Sorry, 20,000 plus years ago? [Speaker 1] (29:49 - 45:47) Will Barron Okay, so we'll lay some timelines out for right now, okay? We're told and it's established as what's called the Rockefeller Institute of Education, which is still taught in the United States, which was developed in the 1940s. And it was an education based on being like an industrial kind of worker after World War II. And that hasn't changed at all. But that same dating period is based on an earlier, it's based on basically like a Roman accepted period of using biblical dates and different things. And what it is, is a 6,000 year window. The 6,000 year window, all academics, it doesn't where they are as an established academia of what's called the doctrine of history. And it means that if you were to like go on your computer right now and you say, when does civilization begin? Blah, blah, blah. And you're like, when did it start? How far back does our civilization go? All those things for Earth, anything, you would find the same date every time. It's actually a very established date of 6,000 years ago. Anything, any academics, any archeology really that's mainstream will say that. And it's like an established narrative. And it means that anything that was before 6,000 years old, older, was a nomadic hunter gathers. That was it. Living in caves, traveling around, hunting large animals, setting up camp and then moving. That's what a hunter gathers. You're sort of living somewhere briefly and you move on somewhere else. That is what we're told. And we're told that something emerged in ancient Sumer 6,000 years ago in Mesopotamia and then agriculture was born there and everything took off from that point. And then you went from 6,000 years, you went from the Sumerians to like the Assyrians, Akkadians, the Urartians, and then you went to like Chaldeans and then you went into the Hittites and the Scythians and then you went into eventually the Romans and then you went all the way up through to where we are now. Well, what that has been fiercely defended, fiercely defended for a long time. And no matter what archaeological evidence, no matter what comes out, that has never been moved, that dial that has never been able to be moved ever. Okay. And so it's been left to a lot of, I don't have an archaeology degree, but I've studied archaeology as much as pretty much any archaeologist. I'm self-studied, self-studied geologist, climatologist, archaeologist. You just have to wear many hats if you want to try to be in this playing field or you're not going to know what you're talking about. And so I don't have those credentials and so I can talk about anything I want to. But if you have credentials and you were part of that field, it's not that easy just to say whatever you want. You can be cast out of that entire community funding all those things. And it's been very difficult to have academics move out of that lane. Okay. Now, over the course of the last 20 years or so or more, there's been ample evidence that's been growing that completely disagrees with that timeline, completely. And it's been something that's been eroding so much. It's like that sandcastle of history. The sandcastle represents history that's built along the edge of a shoreline and the waves keep coming in. It's like, oh, it keeps getting eroded and the bottom keeps getting washed out. And we're at that point where it's almost a little bit ridiculous because most people that look into this already know, but it hasn't moved in officially in that place yet, which is, excuse me, which is actually like a big reason for what I'm doing, why I'm doing what I'm doing. And I'm part of a lot of other groups and even archaeologists that are pushing to have that narrative changed. We're actually tackling it in a way that maybe has never been tackled with making a full documentary right now, traveling around the world with two archaeologists that are speaking up about this and we're presenting the evidence to change this narrative. Now, what that narrative needs to, how it needs to change is to understand that no, our story doesn't start 6,000 years ago with civilization. And of course, they're going to say, for instance, if you look at modern cranial, the way that the cranium has grown when they look at skeletons, they see that the brain significantly changed in size around 200,000 years ago, where anatomical homo sapiens sapiens essentially emerged. Now, that story is strange in itself and how that all occurred. We won't go there right now, but where we will go is the idea that our story in terms of when civilization emerged, the first cities, when everything started here is not 6,000 years old. It's not even double that. It's actually quite a bit further than that. And I'm part of a group that is trying to establish, to change that narrative, to basically be able to justify this entire last chapter or chapters of us that became very mythical, part of mythologies, and part of different time periods that was spoken about in a way that was considered not real. And that's one of the things, like with the new book that I'm writing right now, my fourth book called The Missing Key of History, the first chapter is basically separating what was myth to becoming a reality. Ancient cities talked about in the oldest tablets in history that were considered myth were found, you know, subsequently later. And oops, like that wasn't supposed to be real, right? Places like Troy, that was an ancient Greek myth, eventually being found, being realized what the entire mythical epics and tales of Troy from Homer's, you know, Iliad and Odyssey, turns out that that was a real thing. But that's only the tip of the iceberg. Ancient, ancient Sumerian cities like Eridu and Shurupac that are discussed in ancient cuneiform tablets, the oldest writing in the world, which is like a wedge-like symbols into clay or stone, tell fantastic stories about a time long before we could ever remember when great cities, great sages and kings and priests once lived and were here. And that is where our Nomo and our Awanas come from. They come from legendary periods of time so long ago that we've completely forgotten about them. And we don't even think they're real. And the way that we know that is that when you look at these evidence of lost civilizations around the world, and they leave behind very telltale evidence, they always build out a beautiful megalithic, meaning large stones, either granite, andesite, or basalt in almost about 90% of the cases. Very, very hard stone, lasts the test of time. Whereas other cultures, we call them Bronze Age cultures, okay? Bronze Age, meaning 3000 years ago, 2500 years ago, some 3500 years ago, right? Those cultures had Bronze Age tools, meaning that they were only able to carve using bronze technology, bronze metals. You cannot carve something that's substantially harder or manipulate something substantially harder than you're working with, with something softer. There's ways to use dust of iron and other things. You can do some things, but you can't create these unbelievably complex and incredible places. What we're looking at is, it's like the analogy of a bunch of kids that go to a statue, and they spray paint a bunch of junk on it, right? Then a culture comes later and like, oh, look at those teenagers. They built this incredible statue. They're the ones who are responsible for this greatness. It's completely wrong. Imagine the dynastic Egyptians, okay? Khufu. Careful with that. Khufu, Pyramid of Khufu, which I don't use that because it's not Khufu's Pyramid. Khufu's Pyramid, having the cartouche name of Khufu being forged in the 1800s, forged, and having no other writings ever found in the Great Pyramid ever, anywhere. They had this one supposed place that says Khufu, and all of a sudden, it becomes Khufu's Pyramid is built by Khufu during the dynastic Egyptians, even though there's no evidence that he built it, they ever could build it, ever. That's what we're talking about. The dynastic Egyptians are like those teenage kids that came in and spray painted everywhere and wrote all their stuff on stuff, and they didn't build any of it. They built some of it, but they didn't build the big stuff like Tannis, Egypt, or the Ramessium, or the Great Pyramids of Egypt. They didn't build any of that. These giant statues that are like 30 feet tall, that are like falling over, that just have like giant hands and their heads broken off, sitting there, like some kind of a sci-fi movie. That was what's left over of the greatest civilizations in history that we don't remember, that the other groups have built on top of, and then taken over. The perfect example is the Great Sphinx. Probably the best example you can have. The Great Sphinx wasn't a sphinx. Look at the body of the lion, and look at how tiny and ridiculous the head looks. The dynastic Egyptians re-carved the head. It was never supposed to be a pharaoh. How ridiculous is that? You take a symbol that's basically an ancient symbol of the lion, Leo, which is what I think it was. It was a lion. It was a lion. You take an ancient symbol of that, and instead of having the gods connection to the stars and what they had, you're so confident and bold that you're greater than them, that you take that ancient symbol and you carve a pharaoh out of it. It's the ultimate way to describe what happened to those places, is that they were disrespectful and they disappeared. They disappeared as well. The point I'm trying to get at is that all around the world, you see this evidence of a completely different chapter that built all these things. Then other cultures came later and built on top of them. That's what the confusion has been kept for so long on these. If you guys know the story, what happened was, you know how this cracked? You know how this tight narrative that wasn't able to budge, you know how it finally moved? A man named Robert, John Anthony West and Robert Bavall, they weren't Egyptologists. They were self-studied. It always comes from a self-study, not a full academic. They were in Egypt and John Anthony West, much love to that man. He's no longer here, but he was the pioneer. That guy should have statues built around the world of him. He noticed that the Sphinx enclosure around the Great Sphinx has clear evidence of massive, massive water erosion damage. Massive, all the way down and across it. Well, we're told that that's wind erosion. He said, but that matters. He's like, no, no, no, that's water erosion. They brought in a geologist, an academic, a highly credited geologist named Robert Shock, who I'm friends with. Robert Shock came in and was a skeptical initially. He went in and he studied it for a while. He really took time to look at it and analyze it. He came up with the conclusion. He's like, they're right. It's not wind erosion, it's water erosion. The only time that could have happened based on climatic events on earth is at least 11,000 years ago. The academic community freaked out. It was like pitchforks and torches going after him. That was what it was like. Even suggesting blasphemy like that. Problem was, I don't think it was even 11,000 years ago. I think it was way older than that. Because if you look at the alignments of the Great Sphinx to Leo, because the precession equinox, basically the earth has this wobble like this, it flips. If you're going to face specifically a constellation as an age, there's only ages based on the great year. It's not any time, it's specific in history when it lines up. If you were to take the Great Pyramid of Giza as your two benchmarks. The Great Pyramid of Giza, you face when the shafts faced Orion and Sirius. When did that happen? Then at the same time, when did the Great Sphinx, which was a lion, when did it face Leo? Take the three of those and when did that last happen? The last time that happened is 12,000 years ago. You're like, oh, they were built 12,000 years ago. Not so fast. 12,000 years ago was literally hell on earth. That was when I believe everything was destroyed. We had massive events. If you imagine an ice age on the earth, the Laurentide ice sheet in North America and Canada, one to two miles deep, biggest area of ice on the planet besides Antarctica. You have different areas of ice along the northern hemisphere and you have some kind of an event come through. An event that seems cyclical, seems part of these events with the sun and different cosmic alignments. What happens is that ice melts very, very, very quickly, flooding the oceans and then basically shutting off the circulatory patterns of the earth and disrupting the magnetic poles. You basically get tectonic movements, massive earthquakes, coronal mass ejection like plasma events coming through. You get tsunamis that were miles and miles high. It's like the end of the world and that's exactly how they describe it. If you look at Plato's descriptions of Atlantis and you learn that he wasn't the only one that talked about that. Diodorus, another Greek philosopher, extensively discussed it. That all came from Egyptian knowledge, from a whole story that people don't even think is real. That came from a place called the Temple of Sais, which was on the delta of the Nile River, where there used to be an island there with an ancient temple called the Temple of Sais. On that, in that temple was the oldest, the elder priest like Sanchus, who met with Solon when he came down and told him the whole story. They describe it as the earth having these periods of cycles that are disastrous in our past. We've never experienced one of those in modern history. Not even close. They discuss how it's like the old world was destroyed by water and fire. That's how they describe it. Not everything, but a lot of places were destroyed by that. That happens to exactly coincide. They give the date. They give the date for when that event occurred, which destroyed Atlantis. It's 11,600 years ago. That's exactly the same date we find in ice core samples from Greenland that shows some crazy event occurring climatically on the earth at that exact moment. How would a civilization be able to create the greatest pyramids in the world during that kind of chaos? I don't think they could have. I think that's what destroyed them. Robert Shock was right. The water from Younger Dryas is what created the erosion on the Sphinx enclosure, which is showing when it was destroyed, but not when it was created. Not when it was created. Now, a short break from the episode. [Speaker 2] (45:47 - 46:10) If you're enjoying this podcast, it would mean so much to us if you could please take a moment to follow us on your favorite platform, wherever you're listening, whether it's Spotify, Apple, or anywhere else. Your support helps us reach more listeners and continue to produce quality content and do what we do best. Plus, you will never miss an episode. If you get the chance, please take a moment to do that and enjoy the rest of this episode. [Speaker 3] (46:11 - 46:12) Back to the episode. [Speaker 2] (46:13 - 46:43) Hey, man, I want to ask you a question. This kind of relates to the nomos and these traveling groups of sages, etc. I've got a very basic understanding of this, but have you looked much into the Irish origins of civilization? I know there's been some books written by Michael Cyrin and others, which make the claims that these sages and this ancient wisdom was actually of Irish and Druidic origin. And even so, so much as though they were heavily influenced ancient Egypt wisdom as well. [Speaker 1] (46:44 - 51:29) So to be very clear, I think the Druids were the last sacred group that came out of Egyptian knowledge, not the way around, though. I think that what they are, because if you look at St. Patrick, I talk about St. Patrick's Day all the time. So do you guys know the horrible, horrible holiday of St. Patrick's Day, right? Do you know what that represents? Tell us. Okay, this is going to be fun for people who don't know this story. St. Patrick was, he was originally Welsh, but his father was a Roman official. And he was tasked as part of that initiative of the Christian church, the Catholic church. His duty, his purpose was to go into Ireland and Scotland and Wales, that whole region, and rid the snakes from that region. Snakes was just, it was an analogy. It was symbolic of showing, it's a metaphor for showing the Druids and the pagan people. Okay, that's what they were calling them, snakes, which is really interesting because then you get back into the whole concept of a dragon and a serpent snake from the Americas and all those original cultures. But they were calling them that. And of course, there's never been any real snakes that lived there. It's too far north to have snakes. And so you've, that's how you know it's like, okay, so it was a metaphor for ridding the Druids and the pagans. The saddest thing in the world, literally exterminating the Druids and the pagans from that region. That's what St. Patrick's Day is. That's the whole point of that evil, horrible holiday. Now the Druids and the pagans, not like what a lot of this misinformation, this demonization that has come through of them sacrificing all this stuff, all that is inaccurate in my opinion. What the Druids really were, and the pagan groups, which are just like variations of that, is they were what's left of a great legacy, a legacy of knowledge. Because I actually think the Druids or associations with them are who built Stonehenge. Because they weren't just in Ireland, they were that whole region. I believe that they were the last group that had left Egypt and Atlantis type of time periods, had gone to Ireland and Wales and was one of the last groups of individuals, societies that were still teaching what I call the old religion. This old knowledge from way back in antiquity. Because what you find out was that the Holy Roman Empire, through the Christian wars they had, they were targeting all these ancient libraries, like the most famous of all, they burned down the library of Alexandria. But they were targeting a lot of other areas as well, like the Gnostics, which is an ancient Egyptian group. They were destroying them and killing them and destroying their books and their knowledge from an earlier Christian time period, from before the Bible. This older time period of knowledge, this body of knowledge that was traveling around the world with these sages, that was the knowledge of everything. The knowledge of the laws of nature, the cosmic laws, the laws that exist, like hermeticism is basically a fractal piece of all that. The laws of Maat, M-A-A-T from Egypt is the same thing. They were teaching these constants about how we can be the best human we can possibly be. In balance and being balanced in the cycles of nature, balanced in the universe, the earth, in our understanding of what happens when we achieve balance, what unlocks within us when we reach these higher states, when we all of a sudden stop becoming just this physical being, when we become like a multi-dimensional being. They were teaching what that is. All those concepts of how to reach source, how to reach the highest states, but also the knowledge and wisdom from those ancient cultures on the perfect society, on how to build with like sacred stones that have energetic purposes that unlock and connect to higher things. They knew all of that stuff. They knew all of that and they were basically wiped out and they were the last group that had that knowledge. It's like they should make movies out of that. It's the saddest thing in the world. We celebrate it as this holiday of leprechauns and drinking and Irish pride, but it had nothing to do with Irish pride. It actually has to do with one of the saddest stories in our history, the wiping out of the last memory of the sages and the societies that were protecting this knowledge before it was basically almost just disappeared. [Speaker 3] (51:30 - 51:36) Now I know why intuitively I don't think I've ever celebrated that holiday. I mean, I'm not Irish, but you know. [Speaker 2] (51:38 - 52:03) Yeah. Interesting, man. Thanks for that. Yeah. I don't know enough to provide you with the kind of position, but no, I appreciate that. Let me ask you this question. So in terms of the Rockefeller doctrine of education and of history, from your perspective, what's the intention behind wanting to condition such a large number of people that civilization is much more modern and recent than it probably actually is? [Speaker 1] (52:05 - 54:53) I think that the more you look at it, you can't just shy away from that it was all an accident. There's too much there. It was a way to create a worker during the World War II period. And during that time, someone who would be a highly functional part of society, like a cog in a greater machine is really what you could call it. It was during the industrial era. It was the age of rising up in an industrial way to be a mighty empire country against others, right? And you are a worker, you are fulfilling some kind of a role within that system. But that doesn't come with being a very open minded, very creative thinker that is asking a lot of questions that is seeking maybe a very highly academic place that challenges the narrative. None of those things were very encouraged. It was very much a designed system, it seems, to keep people in a box, in a box of thinking and mindsets. And of course, what happens is generations go by and the parents teach the kids and then they go to school and they learn the same thing over and over again. And it's like a regurgitated doctrine that is given over and over and over again that to this day, right now, in school, a kid goes into school, they learn that the brain creates consciousness and that consciousness is just a creation of the brain and that once the brain dies, we die and then we're dead. That's it. That is still taught, still accepted, that is still what we're being made to believe. And so you spend half your life deconditioning the chains that have been put on for the potential and who you really are and what consciousness is. And what it does is it strips away the most dangerous thing of all that that creates. It creates a fear-based world. It creates a fear-based world that your existence is something that once it's over, you never exist again and so you need to consume and take and be very careful. And all those things, it creates this chain fear-based world. It's rooted in scarcity. It's now rooted in scarcity. Yeah, it's a loop. And so people get stuck in that loop and then it dictates everything in their life. Every action they have is dictated by the mentality of thinking, well, I need to just go get more and more. I need to get more money, better status. Oh, I need to make sure I get more and more. And you just lose yourself in a game that's been very carefully created here. A game that prevents you often from walking down the enlightenment path of seeking the mysteries of what the ancients were trying to tell us. See, it always goes back to that. They already mastered all this. We got to stop pretending we're creating it. We're just remembering what they had already left behind. [Speaker 3] (54:54 - 55:06) Yeah. Can you talk a little bit more about that in terms of how ancient man, like what we can learn from ancient man to apply to our modern lives, to live better lives, to be more whole, to achieve more of our potential. [Speaker 2] (55:06 - 55:12) And from your understanding, what is consciousness to, I guess, oppose the materialist paradigm we saw? [Speaker 1] (55:13 - 1:07:37) Should we start with that? What is consciousness? But bring me back to the other one, okay? Okay. I like that because I want to talk about the symbols and what I just came back from for Turkey. Yeah, for sure. I guess I can do it the other way around. And maybe it makes more sense to do it the other way around. So in, we just got back from the Lake Van region of Turkey, which is basically the one of the biggest cores of my work going forward, because I believe it's like the origin point of these lost civilizations, nearly all of them, including Egypt, all came from this point of when we're talking about the Nomo and Oannes for traveling sages. Well, their sage was Haldi, okay? And their sage there was where I think it all started. So instead of studying, I've been studying all these fractals of it all around the world of evidence of the giant megalithic blocks, the beautiful temples, the pyramids, the highly precise work that baffles our mind how they did it, right? And then the ancient texts they left behind, the cuneiform tablets or the scroll, the information from papyrus or scrolls, but more importantly, cuneiform because it's older, and also the ancient symbols that are left behind in these places. Now, the best example for that in what I've traced this whole thing back to is this area of Eastern Turkey that used to be Armenia called Lake Van. And there in the Armenian highlands is a place that called Ionis that has basically just shifted this entire narrative in a different way. It's like it's provided a key that goes in and open something that then connects every door around the world, okay? And there are other temples around Ionis, specifically one called Kef Temple. It's known as Kef Kelesi. Now at that location, I want to start there and go back. We'll get back to Ionis after. But at that location, there is a giant box relief, huge, okay? Three feet by three feet by four feet, big, big basalt box made out of a very hard stone. And in that are all these carvings, very specific, like laser cut of these depictions, okay? It's a relief. And it's showing Haldi with the same Mesopotamian depictions of passing the seeds of knowledge, just like in Mesopotamia, like the sages down there. He's passing the seeds of knowledge, but what is depicted around him is very, very telling and important, okay? What it's showing is he's honoring with the cup, like a religious spiritual doctrine he's passing. So we know that's what it is. It's the first cup in history, the first chalice. He's holding in his left hand, and in his right hand, he's passing the seeds of knowledge. That's the same symbol as the tree of life in the center. The very center that he's passing it to, that goes all the way up, is showing this cypress tree that was the representation of the tree of life. And he's passing the knowledge of that to showing going up, and above it are showing these three doorways in a stepped kind of pyramid, just like a ziggurat, like in Sumer. And it's these three doorways, and the center door is right above his head, where he's passing the knowledge. It's above him, like this. And what it's showing is this plume of the fleur-de-lis symbol, or like a plume of a flowering symbol right above it. And on each side, it's being guarded by two eagles. So you're looking at all these depictions, these symbols, and you're like, whoa, what does all this mean? Well, if you study ancient Sumer and other areas around the world, you see similarities with all those symbols, and it comes together in a story. It's trying to tell you something. It's trying to tell you something that was left behind. And what I think all those symbols represent, and there's more in Ionis, like the first cross in history and all these things, that way before Christian time, is it's talking about this oneness and this balance that we have forgotten about and lost. But not only in a casual way, the oneness and balance in everything. Look at the world, the earth, right? Let's imagine right now, go back thousands of years, okay? And just take humans off it just for a minute. Just plop us off it for a minute, and then look at the natural world, how everything functions, how climatic events with spring rains and then dryness fall into this ebb and flow of abundance, right? And then less abundance, and then abundance, and this flow of everything. How trees drop their leaves in the fall, and the leaves decompose and turn into the vital soil and nutrients that allows everything else to grow up around it. It's a perfect system. It's perfect. What has happened and created here, I say created here, is a perfect system of balance in everything. Every animal, every creature is all playing this perfect balance and role here. Like the tides coming in, right? It's all part of this cycle and this flow. We are the only ones that don't follow any of that balance. We're the ones that are destroying the environment and not falling into that understanding of what our role is within that, because we've been made to believe that consciousness is created by the brain. So then all of a sudden we become like a survival of fittest Darwinian kind of animal that's trying to consume and conquer. That was never the way it was supposed to be ever. That's never the way any of this was supposed to be. In fact, imagine there are certain cycles that are being governed. We'll call it that. We'll call it cycles that are governed here and spiritual paths here that are being governed as well. Have you ever seen an ancient Egypt showing a feather on a scale with a human heart? You ever seen that depiction where they're like weighing the human soul? Who's weighing that? Who's measuring this? Who's determining when any of this happens? Who's governing when our spiritual progression occurs? You go down that road of dealing with demons that you're dealing with and darkness, you feel like you unlock something. Anybody that goes down this, who's been down this spiritual road and knows that you cannot progress past a certain point until you've dealt with whatever darkness or whatever is within you that's holding you back. It's like you're prevented. You can't. You're out there like, nope, can't go past that point, guys. You're stuck there because there's a soul progression that is being governed and watched and managed here because that's what was showing on that box relief. It's like, wait a minute, the cycles are being governed? The cycles are being shown? But not only that, we're being shown how to achieve our highest states of potential consciousness and energy through this. It's showing us, look, if you can achieve the ultimate balance in oneness, remember balance within the self includes everything. It's like the totality of all of it. You're divine masculine or divine feminine. Are you achieving balance within that? Are you eating healthy? Are you drinking clean water that's either spring fed or distilled or something healthy? Are you eating healthy? What is your mind state? Are you full of all the traumas of your past and all the things that are destroying yourself eternally? All of those things, the spiritual path itself is part of that. If you find balance, it's like showing you what it is. It's like, look, I'm passing the knowledge of if you achieve balance, look what happens. It shows the three doorways. You find out those three doorways are what's known as the triptych and it's in every ancient civilization around the world. They'll show a temple, like for instance, Kukulkan's temple. Look at the top of it. You have the three doorways, the top of the temple, everywhere in the world. It's this concept of three that we have three components to us, the mind, the body, and the soul or the spirit. If we can balance those three, it's like all of a sudden they come together and it unlocks something. It unlocks something incredible and that's exactly what they're trying to show. Now you want to go even deeper. Look at last supper. Go look at that again. Three doors, windows in the back with Jesus in the center, the very center. Then you have each side has a depiction of, I think it's like you see the Mary on one side or whatever, but it's representing the mind, the body, and the soul. It's showing you that if you unlock the center door, you can basically unlock the greatest potential that you could ever imagine of a human. What we've forgotten has been so well established by the ancients that they were leaving the blueprints for how to achieve it. We're just stumbling around right now in the dark trying to put these things together because it was like we had the keys to everything once, everything. That's what I think Ionis is. Ionis Kelesi, Ionis temple there, that is what became my company name, Ionis Legacy and everything I do, is that it seems like that all started that story of us getting handed the keys. If your parents were like, hey, you're finally old enough. Here, I'm going to give you the keys to the Corvette. They give you the keys. It's like that was happened there, but what are the keys to? The keys to everything. The keys to something that we don't fully understand. Imagine what is the human potential? What are we? If you look at what certain beings throughout history have been able to achieve, look at Buddha and look at all these enlightened beings. They were able to achieve this enlightened state of being in oneness with all. They're telling us the teachings of how we can achieve it. We're like, yeah, we can do it ourself. We kind of ignore it, but that's everything. That is the same thing that's been echoed around the world by all of these cultures. They knew all of those keys, but we haven't simply opened the door in the right way yet because the human potential, in my opinion, is vastly under understood and underappreciated for what we are and what we can become. I think that the potential of us is honestly limitless. Why we haven't seen more of it yet is because those cycles are governed. We're not ready yet. We're not ready. We're not ready for all this. We can only go so far as a collective, but as an individual, and I'm sure Joel and Erosimos, you know, you're deeply spiritual men. You've gone into deep meditation states. You've seen the other side. You've seen the metaphysical side of reality that is not the linear 3D world that we're taught and spoon-fed when we were kids. It's a shedding. It's a shedding of those controls of our mindset before we realize what we're a part of, that fear is the ultimate control here, that once you lose your fear and you have trust in your path and what you're a part of, all these other things unlock. The psycho masters unlock it and allow you in, and then you're in there and you're like, oh my God, everyone, you've got to come check this place out, right? Everyone's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're just kind of like, whatever. That's not the real world. Oh, I've been told that so many times, right? That's not the real world. You can't exist there. Who's to say you're in the real world? What is real? As far as we know, the metaphysical reality is even more real than the physical because the physical is just a manifestation of the metaphysical. So what comes first? That's what we have to understand is that we are powerful metaphysical beings from a higher place that come down here and we're in this body that's in a 3D world and we forget everything. It's like we try to find our way back. It's like a constant game. [Speaker 3] (1:07:38 - 1:08:19) Yeah. I think the challenge is also where people want to bypass that they're in a body and so they don't put their attention on it and realize that you talk about that trinity, the three doors, the body is important. Taking care of your body, understanding the state of your nervous system, feeding it good stuff, releasing all the stress that's stored in your body. You're not going to get to this state of this deeper connection. Again, some people call it that oneness. If your body is polluted, if your body is operating at a frequency where you can't function day to day with presence and clarity. So I think that's a big piece of the puzzle that sometimes gets ignored. [Speaker 1] (1:08:19 - 1:10:38) No, it truly is. Again, those three doors, the triptych, the trinity, the three doors they show on that Kef Box relief that I'm obsessed with. That is everything. Because like you said, you can't leave the body out. That's one of the doors. You can't leave that out. You have to achieve balance with that. Then your mind, right? And then your spirit. And then just what happens when you do that, it changes everything. It changes everything in your reality. And people that know that and get glimpse it, they're trying to tell everyone else and people aren't listening. This is not something that's like a scattered concept that's being shared by certain subgroups around the world. It is the core message shared by every ancient civilization all around the world. They all knew that. And we're trying to get back to that. That's why I study the ancient civilizations. Now, I want to tell you, I want to expand on what I was saying on the box relief. This really interesting concept emerges. It shows this concept of them managing the balance here. And that we are almost our journey, our journey in our higher states in our in humanity's journey is that if we can't find balance with that, we'll never make it. Empires are always unsustainable. So is living in a pure physical 3D world. You ultimately always end up destroying yourself because you lose that balance with everything. That's why I can't underestimate enough that we have just begun to see what humanity becomes because we seem to be, we're deliberately held back because we're not ready yet. It's an interesting concept that has shown that humanity as a whole, even though like the people, like you, the two, you two gentlemen listening to this call, maybe at a certain level of consciousness, we still have to remember there's eight and a half billion people on earth and we represent a collective. It's like a giant organism here that hasn't, that hasn't woken up truly yet to understand what it really is. And that's why I think it's so important that we study the ancients because they left behind all of that to understand that our potential is far greater than we can ever imagine. [Speaker 2] (1:10:39 - 1:11:20) The three doors are very reminiscent of the teachings of George Gurdjieff. So he developed what's called the fourth way. So he spoke about the initial three ways, the way of the fakir, which is the physical, the way of the monk, which is the emotional, the way of the yogi, which is the intellectual. And he developed the fourth way, which is the integration of the physical, the emotional and the intellectual. So again, it definitely ties in. But he also came from the perspective that for the most part, the collective or man in general, it's very machine-like in its nature. And it has to be that way. And it's only individuals that are ever going to really awaken, which is another interesting idea. [Speaker 1] (1:11:21 - 1:17:08) Well, but we have to understand this lost golden age, lost civilizations, because what they left behind tells us that they weren't like us. We don't find evidence of any kind of a path that humanity has taken now like them. Imagine humanity could take only two paths, right? There's only two. One of them is a natural harmonic path. And the other path is more based on technology and based on temporary consumption of resources. Okay. They both diverge like this. Now the idea is that they sort of have to come back together at some point, because the ancients understood that if you don't do that, you will never be able to achieve your greatest potential. It's like you're always seeking the outer and not the inner. I think that's really what the concept is. Imagine right now, we're so obsessed with, well, not obsessed, but I guess our focus more on exploration is like go out further into space, send a probe further and further and further, see what else we can find out there. But we're not really looking inward. We're not really looking in and understanding what our potential is. I mean, look at the fact that we have seven primary chakras that happen to match the seven colors of the visible light spectrum. That's a total coincidence. Okay. We also have the same amount of water as the earth, basically. Okay. And like the core of the earth is primarily iron and a primary component of our blood is iron too. We're like the microcosm of the macrocosm of something greater that we're trying to understand. And we keep seeking outer, outer, outer to learn, but we're not really looking in to see what the human potential is, to see the reaction that occurs with the cell and with new ideas and things within us, because that's really what they were trying to leave behind. And I want to explain for a minute what they were doing. The temples we see around the world, these megalithic temples were built in places that were often very hard to access, not really places that were there for convenience because they could have agriculture and easy places to grow civilizations. It was more so they were there for energetic reasons for things like nodal points on ley lines and different things on the earth. They seem to be understanding this detailed connection that exists between the earth, the sun, the moon, and the constellations and the energy of the cosmos and how it's part of, again, that micro versus macro connection as above. So below one of the most important laws of correspondence, the hermetic concepts that we seem to just not be paying enough attention to. But the point I'm trying to make is they seemed to be balancing what I think was, they were maintaining balance here. The ancients were maintaining balance. That way they were sitting up on mountaintops and deeply connected. They were doing something that we don't understand. How did they move 20 ton blocks hundreds of miles? We still have no idea. How did they put these in place? The king's chamber in the Great Pyramid of Giza, it's over 50 feet up into the pyramid. How did you get a 40 ton block of granite and put it up in a place in there? How? We still don't understand what they built. Not only that, but I don't believe based on the mathematical perfection of the Great Pyramid of Giza or most of these other structures that we could even create them today. Not to their level of precision. Give you an example at Ionis, in my opinion, the most beautiful megalithic temple in the world with laser cut andesite crosses and depictions of the winged Haldi and the Griffin and hourglass symbols for time. It's an ancient sun temple. They made a recreation of that temple in the Van Museum because they didn't want people going to that site because it's still being excavated. You go into that one and it's like a poor version of the original. You're like, wait a minute. So, I mean, I know we could have put more resources into it and had better people make it, but still, we were to go in and recreate it and it looks like crap compared to what they created, which we have no concept of how they did it. Whether it's tools, whether it was plasma technology, we have no concept of how they were able to move, cut, put into place or do any of these things. I was just talking to a guide, our amazing guide Saba in Turkey. We were at Shabu's Tepe and looking at Kef Temple and others. He was saying that the type of bath salt at Shabu's Tepe is so fine. It's so high quality that the only place that they know of where that came from was 300 miles away. 300 miles with these multi-ton blocks. Talk about the insanity of a civilization doing that just because energetically it was a very important block and it would last forever because it was really hard and high quality. These civilizations weren't doing things like we were. They had abilities, telekinesis and levitation and different abilities with technology that we don't understand. They're leaving behind the keys to a greater world that we are just discovering and understanding now with some of the technology that we're going into. That's what I mean is that the ancients truly left behind the keys to a greater puzzle that we're just putting together now. [Speaker 3] (1:17:08 - 1:17:15) Do you think giants roamed the earth? Like maybe a few of them were like, yeah, let's go pick up these stones. [Speaker 1] (1:17:15 - 1:18:42) I think the natural way to go is thinking like, well, these are big, so it had to be a big person that picked them up. But the answer to that is, number one, yes, I do think they were much larger people way back in the day. We see massive skeletons all over the world that have been found, especially in some of the mounds in the United States. They've been in the indigenous of all kinds of stories about giants. In fact, the most well-documented case of giants in the world that people don't know was when Magellan was sailing around the world. He was going through Patagonia in like 15 something. It's well-documented by the journal person that was on board. They have extensive journals that they came ashore and they came across nine to 10 foot tall people in that Patagonia. They were well-documented. Some of them were violent and actually caused them to leave and to get back in their ships and leave. But the point is that that has been documented by a lot of cultures around the world is that there were at least a subgroup of humans that were very tall way back in the day. And it's giants are discussed all throughout history. So we do know that that was a real thing. Now, whether or not every ancient sage and king of renown was a giant, we don't fully know. I don't know that. But I can tell you that the records do indicate they lived a lot longer than we do now. Yeah. Real quick. They were part of a different time. [Speaker 3] (1:18:42 - 1:19:02) Yeah. Yeah. Well, actually not real quick, but I just want to get into this. How did you come to the conclusion that in Turkey where you've been exploring, that's the first cross or that's where all these other ancient civilizations stem from? What are your thoughts on that? [Speaker 1] (1:19:02 - 1:21:09) Yeah. I'm following an ancient lineage that does go from ancient 6,000 years ago, much further back than that. I'm going back well over 20,000 years, basing on different alignments of star constellations and climatic events in Earth's history. So what I did is I matched up using Greenland ice cores. You can only go back 20,000 years. So if you want to go back course, so we use thing. I, what I would, what I did is I paired up Antarctic ice cores, excuse me, Antarctic ice cores with Greenland ice cores. And I was looking at these ancient tablets talking about disasters in history and these different events in matching and pairing them up along with when the star constellations and when these ages would have aligned up as well. So I'm taking a lot of different data points, excuse me, taking a lot of different data points from those and then putting it together and trying to figure it out. Saying like things like, okay, I just came back from Kef Temple and there's numerous areas of vitrification seen on the stones out there. Vitrification is a type of melting of the rock that can only happen from like a plasma like event or something of extreme heat way beyond our comprehension. Well, when did that event occur? Climatic events and you look at Earth's history and you say, well, we know that the Younger Dryas or this period back then at that point had these disasters just like that. In fact, talk, Randall Carlson, one of my friends, extensively discusses how, you know, megafauna, things like ancient elephants and woolly mammoths and everything, 40, it's an estimated that 40 million megafauna died during the last ice age from this event. So not just that it wiped out human civilizations, but it literally wiped out entire massive, massive groups of species on the Earth that were once here and actually led to a complete reduction of all megafauna in the Northern Hemisphere to a significant degree. So that's the kind of events we're talking about for ages now. [Speaker 3] (1:21:09 - 1:21:27) Do you have an estimate of what the ages are? Do you have an estimate of the world population was back then during this great like cataclysm that happened? I mean, you're saying like now have like, okay, 8.5 billion, but is there anyone that kind of hypothesizes what the population was then and then how many people potentially perished? [Speaker 1] (1:21:29 - 1:21:52) So we have no concept of exactly how many, but we do know it was a decent population. And we know that they were seeking to survive these events because, excuse me, because an event of a place called Derinkuyu. So in Southern Turkey, there's an area called the Cappadocia region. Okay. Have you guys heard of that yet? [Speaker 3] (1:21:53 - 1:21:54) Yeah. I've heard of the Cappadocia region. [Speaker 1] (1:21:54 - 1:28:23) There's an area called the Cappadocia region that is extremely softer stone. It's actually an ancient type of volcanic stone, but it's softer. And about 50 years ago, there was a man who was excavating for an apartment, like walls down. And he accidentally knocked down this one section of wall and it opened up to a tunnel that ended up going to the largest underground city in the world. And when I mean large, I mean it was able to house 20,000 people. What it was, was a set of underground tunnels that were carved into the bedrock. And the doorway, you go into them, was blocked with this multi-ton massive stone that was circular that they would roll across and seal the front. Okay. And then down within this, they had these areas of rooms that would go down and have a whole section to live in. And everything was coordinated off and they had more than 20 levels. And even within that, they had air shafts that could go up and go outside in a small little area to bring air in down through areas. They had areas for animals. They found areas, evidence of schools, areas of sleeping and eating. It was like a whole civilization that had literally gone to the excess, unbelievable excess effort to create these massive underground cities. Okay. Massive. Why would they do that? Well, the conventional theory, if you look up Derinkuyi right now, is that they're hiding from like war and different things, but that's stupid because they could just block them in there and have them all stuck in there. That doesn't make sense. Well, what if you were trying to avoid something like radiation or Corona mass ejection or events outside that were so crazy that you literally couldn't be on the surface? Well, some of the evidence of the burning on the rocks we see from melting on these places, like I just got back from Kef Kelesi, it's all over, melting of the basalt, melting. You know what kind of temperatures you need to do that? 2,000 degrees. Any human that was in areas like that would just vaporize. I'm not saying, suggesting the whole earth had that happen, but certain places had these events occur often near these energetic places because they were building with stone that was high in magnetite, very magnetic. So what exactly happened to these places? We don't fully know, but it was disastrous enough that the people, these civilizations were seeking, surviving underground. Surviving underground through these catastrophes for sometimes over a hundred years, because I can't point out enough how disastrous these were. The Younger Dryas period, which is a period of upheaval and disaster when the last ice age ended, was over the course of 1,500 years. 1,500 years. So imagine events on the front end, and then events on the back end, and then climatic disturbances in between. It was enough to wipe out an entire chapter of what we used to be. And now how far back do we used to go? I believe that based on studying ancient Egypt, the Temple of Horus at Edfu with what's called Zep Tepi, the first time in Egypt, and aligning to the star constellations of Egypt. Remember we were talking about Sirius, Orion, and then the Great Sphinx? Well, if you go back to the previous age of Leo, it was like 12,000 years ago, 12,000, 13,000 years ago, but that's too chaotic to build then. So how far back is the previous age of Leo? 38,000 years ago. 38,000 years ago, which is why I believe that these civilizations that went from Sumer in this first disaster that I found on Antarctic ice cores at 40,000 to 45,000 years ago, it was a bunch of cataclysms on the earth, disasters that I think coincide with this first original flood that's described in ancient Sumer, like the biblical mythos flood, okay, of the Noah mythos, came from a very different older time, and I believe that is like 40,000 to 45,000 years ago, and that is what led them to landing in Mount Ararat area, which is true, and that's why Lake Vaughn, which is not that far from Mount Ararat, is where this emergence of something new came up, something new emerged there, where they seem like they were handed the keys to the knowledge of everything, everything, megalithic building, energy, consciousness, of equilibrium and balance, cycles, building the greatest temples and pyramids in the world. I think it was lowered right at Ionis, which is why that first cross and all these depictions there are on that bizarre, almost alien-looking site of andesite and calicide alabaster and basalt, this site is bizarre and out of place. I've showed that site to archaeologists, who have seen it, most people have never heard of it because it's relatively new. Number two, they'd never seen a site like that anywhere in the world. Something happened there that led to an entire emergence of a golden age for thousands of years. I think it was 20,000 years or 10 to 15 to 20, depending on how far it is, but over 10,000 years of this golden age around the world that built the greatest things we've ever seen, that had these civilizations that had all the knowledge and were living in oneness and balance, and then they were wiped out. Then the seeds of what they knew and the breadcrumbs that they left behind and the megaliths they left, that would last the test of time when nothing else would. All of our metal buildings, all of our glass, all of our digital resources would be gone in 500 to 1,000 years without maintenance, gone. We'd be like, we weren't even here. Yet, what they built, the giant granite basalt stones would last forever and they're still here telling their stories. That's how we're able to know of this entire chapter what we used to be and who we used to be. [Speaker 3] (1:28:24 - 1:28:56) Yeah. Dude, thanks for sharing all this. I want to ask one more question. I know we have to wrap up soon, but you're talking about these temperatures that would have an impact on the stone. Do you think there's any potential, because I think some people have brought it up, within these ancient civilizations, the technology was advanced that potentially some of these cataclysms had to do with maybe some type of war. Maybe there were lasers or something as opposed to just natural disasters that were happening. I'm curious if you've come across any of that and what are your thoughts of that? [Speaker 1] (1:28:59 - 1:33:46) I'm not going to say no. I think there's definitely possible. There's descriptions of Atlantis that they were delving into things that possibly are dealing with that. I think it's a possibility. I will say that. But I think the stronger likelihood based on what we're seeing are some kind of a plasma-like events based on a weakening of the magnetosphere of the earth, allowing them to come through. It's almost like, can you imagine weakened areas of the earth where it opens up enough that lightning strikes can come through like hundreds a second, but to the ground? That's, I think, what we're talking about is these very bizarre plasma-like events, thermal mass ejection heat events too, coming through holes and cracks in different places. The weird thing, and I will admit it is odd, and maybe people listening on this can ponder on this, why is it that we see that evidence almost entirely on their megalithic structures and not on other places? Why is it on the places they built? That is peculiar. Number one, is it because they built in these energetically sensitive places anyway, because that's what they were looking for. These magnetic stones are just a natural way that have funneled the energy of these events to those. I don't know, that is a mysterious place. Or is it because what they built is the only thing that stood the test of time, so it's the only evidence we have of it, because the other things are like soil and debris and things that don't last. It's a great question to ponder and to wonder, but I will tell you that the evidence is mounting that there was a group of survivors that made it. We know that because there's evidence of rebuilding. But they couldn't do what the original civilization did. Let me give an example. There's a place called Shavus Tepe, I was just at in Turkey, around Lake Van. At that location, there's three different building styles. We see that in other parts of the world too, like Machu Picchu has that as well. Three building styles, not one, not two, but three. It's very interesting because they follow a pattern. The first one only uses the hardest stones possible. The original civilization, the proto-civilization. They had crazy technology, plasmative technology, whatever they had. They were using the hardest stones possible, they didn't care how far it came from. It was almost never a local stone. Now the second civilization, the survivors, seemed to know a lot of what they knew, but only a fractal of it. They didn't go to great lengths to go get the same stone. It was really weird. For instance, they still built with these giant stones and they cut them rather nicely. Big, but they weren't basalt, they weren't from the same stone, they were softer. They were from the local stone. Imagine a great architect building these incredible places and then they're teaching or they leave behind the teachings in books or whatever about how they built it. Then they die. Some other people pick up the works and they're like, well, I understand some of the concepts of what they're doing, but I can't reproduce it. So they do the best they can and they do something that's still impressive, but it's not what the originals were. But then now imagine that those survivors, I call them the builder survivors, they disappear too. Still climatic, still things going on, they disappear also. Then thousands of years go by and then an indigenous group that's completely primitive, living in the jungle, let's call them the Inca, they emerge out of the jungle and they find the building remnants of the first two cultures. They learn some stuff, they learn some things, it advances their culture, but they still every time, every iteration, there's more and more lost every time. Then by the time they get there, they're building with cobblestones, that's like Machu Picchu, go look at the stonework. They're building with all the cobbles and brick and mortar or mud bricks like we see in other parts of the world, like the Urartians, building on top of with mud brick. It's like they had no way of doing what the other civilizations did, no way of doing it, but they still knew they were sacred places and important, and so they would build on top of them. That's the kind of history that we have. [Speaker 3] (1:33:48 - 1:34:16) Dude, amazing, man. Man, thank you so much for taking time out to come join us. What I love about you, man, is your passion, your passion and just doing your purpose and your life's work. I think that alone is a lesson to our audience. It's like, what is that thing that lights you up and excites you that you want to put your time, energy, and passion into and to create and bring into this world, man? I just want to honor you for that. [Speaker 1] (1:34:16 - 1:36:11) Thank you. I appreciate that, guys. No, it's a drive that is very deep. It's a fire within me that just gets brighter and brighter. Right now, I'm leading a massive, massive expedition for a documentary where we're going back to the same locations but expanding on others to do a very, very high-end documentary for these connections and these civilizations to create something very powerful. We're going to have two archaeologists, geologists. We're going to have ancient religious experts, ancient megalithic experts, all of them going to these places. What we're going to be doing is creating a documentary and just all bodies of work. I'm writing my new book on it as well. On this civilization that I'm calling the Ararat civilization around that area, that doesn't have a name and it's previously unknown, that seems to then tie in all around the world to be a part of creating all these other megalithic civilizations. We're going to places like Cambodia, has the same symbols and same designs, as well as throughout Peru, like Ollantaytambo in Cusco and ending in Bolivia at Pumupunku Tiwanaku for telling this story that seems to be at the heart of our story, our very beginnings, our origins for who we really are in the entire chapter that we've lost. Please follow that if you're interested in that journey at thestageoftime.com. I just released also on the new book I wrote with Billy Carson called The Epic of Humanity. If you haven't had a chance to see that, the hard cover just came out. I will say as soon as I can, I don't know exactly how long it'll take me, but the new book called The Missing Key of History is going to be my greatest masterpiece. I'm right in the middle of that right now. Just to look forward to that in the future where it lays all of this out in a very, very comprehensive way. [Speaker 2] (1:36:11 - 1:36:33) Amazing. Highly encourage your audience to go check out Matt's website, thestageoftime.com. I've got a quick question for you. What's the competition like in your field? You're making this claim that you made this discovery in 2023. Are there other researchers now that are coming to try and stomp on your ground and make claims and develop this story? What's that experience like? Does that happen? [Speaker 1] (1:36:33 - 1:38:27) Well, I didn't discover the ruins of them, but the problem is that the archaeologists that have been there have completely misidentified those civilizations. It's a discovery of connecting it to a previously unknown, quite grand super civilization that it seems to go all around the world that has deep connections back to ancient Sumer. I'm following that story. I feel very honored. I want to obviously to anyone listening to this to understand and in all things is that I feel very honored to tell their story. It's something that is at the very heart and core of me and I want to make sure I tell it the right way in an unbiased way that is based on the evidence and based on the grandeur of what they really were. Because that is in the end of the day, us understanding who they are is understanding who we are and understanding all that we've lost. You can't go forward unless you know where you've been. Where we've been is not a primitive place like we've been told. We came from a deeper understanding with the greatest civilizations, in my opinion, that ever lived. They were truly connected to the law of correspondence in the greatest way possible. I mean, we're so proud of these random cities we create that aren't in an energetic ley line location, and yet they were building these temples and pyramids that are embodiments and microcosms of our solar system and things like that. That's to me impressive. Thank you guys. I appreciate it. I really want to say, I guess the last thing is that I truly feel very moved the more I understand the scope of the civilization and what they were leaving behind and what it can do to humanity, the divinity of the symbols and the messages they were leaving behind. So I truly, I want to say that I want to take that responsibility to the greatest degree possible to tell their story. [Speaker 2] (1:38:29 - 1:38:37) Matt, thank you so much, man. Thank you once again. Everyone else, thank you for listening. Go support Matt's work and we'll see you next time. Thanks, guys. [Speaker 3] (1:38:38 - 1:39:51) Man, that was a fun and interesting episode. I know we don't always get into some of these elements from an alternative historical standpoint, but I think these are topics that are so fascinating. They're the subject of so many debates and conversations and podcasts and documentaries, et cetera. It's just fascinating to hear Matt's explanation and his work and his history. And I think the most important thing also for anyone that is on this research path is how do you stay humble in the fact that there's so much knowledge out there? There's so many different opinions. Yes, do your research, study intently, compare and contrast, but also remaining humble to the mystery, the mystery that, hey, maybe we don't have it all figured out just yet. So, yeah, man, I just appreciate the passion behind that. And it is fascinating to think about what can we learn from ancient man? What has been lost? And that which has been lost, how can it help us and support us today to become the most full versions of ourselves? So, it's a fascinating study for sure. [Speaker 2] (1:39:52 - 1:40:42) Completely agree, man. We're fragmented without really knowing our real history. So, I think it's so important what people like Matt are doing and bringing some of these pieces back together. And this is the root of the tree, which we're talking about, which it's necessary for this life force to come through for us to have that memory that really imbues us and empowers us going forward, as opposed to this disconnected, random, chaotic world that we're sold through this Rockefeller education system, like you mentioned, and through other means, man. And I think the truth is far more wilder than we can possibly even imagine ourselves in our most vivid kind of dreams. I think the truth of who we are and our history and what this experience really is, is something that will boggle the mind. [Speaker 3] (1:40:44 - 1:41:25) But the reality is, you're a piece of magic as a human being, and take a look in the mirror and realize that and own that, and that you have the power to evolve and create and connect to yourself and others in the deepest way imaginable. And so, whatever the barriers are to you doing that, put your attention on that. There can be such a focus, like we say so often, and Matt said, on the external world, and yet there is that universe within. There's so much that we can focus on to improve our lives and just create a deeper connection to ourselves and connect to that divine within. Absolutely. Well said, man. [Speaker 2] (1:41:26 - 1:41:28) All right, guys. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.