Tom Barnett Beyond Truth-Seeking

(0:00 - 0:45) Coming up in this episode. But if you understand that it's like you're already looked after, safe, valuable, loved, you have purpose, reason, and meaning for being here, isn't that going to give you a lot more clarity in how you can actually express into the world the decisions you'll make, the way you see things for what they are, the way you're able to navigate things and course correct, those things become inherently easier. So does that make life easier? No, they're still going to have challenges, you still have to step up to the plate, you still have to work hard, but it's just the navigation part is a lot easier. You are now listening to the Here for the Truth podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Yerasimos. Welcome to the Here for the Truth podcast. Thank you so much for listening. (0:46 - 2:05) We have Tom Barnett returning here today after three long years, and we get into some really powerful conversations around truth seeking, you know, the collective that is the truth community, reflecting on some of the archetypes that are kind of formed within that collective, and just breaking free from any rigid identities and any rigid communities that might feel as though it's kind of hindering potential, as opposed to really cultivating it, as well as getting into all the classic Tom stuff, including natural law, self-discovery, the power of the spoken word, etc. One small favor, if we can ask it, it would really mean a lot to us if wherever you're listening to this right now, be it Spotify, be it Apple, be it YouTube, whatever the podcast provider is, if you could take just one moment before this episode starts and hit that follow button, that would really do us a world of good in terms of getting this message out there, increasing outreach and being able to impact and inspire more people in the way that we really, really intend to. All that being said, thank you so much for listening and please enjoy this episode. Welcome back to Tom Barnett after three long years. Our last discussion was March 17, 2022. There's actually two episodes with Tom, episode 18 and episode 61. (2:06 - 6:29) Here we are again for 233. Tom is a teacher of natural law and former holistic health practitioner. He came into the public eye in 2020 when he made a video called, Can You Catch a Virus? And has since been sharing his unique perspective of the world and how we can play our role in it to the best of our potential. He recently launched the Humble Kingdom to help people break through the programs and illusions that offer to keep us indebted. Welcome back, bro. Good to see you again. Thank you. Hey, Joel. Hey, Ross Moss. Good to see you guys. Yeah, man. For sure. Yeah, totally. Man, I guess one way I would like to kind of breach this conversation is what's been happening in the last three years since we've spoken. How has your own personal journey kind of evolved and unfolded and I guess your overall philosophical view continuing to expand in this timeframe? Yeah, for sure. Well, look, honestly, I think it's similar to everybody because I've noticed, I see what you guys post on social media. I see what a lot of people are doing at the moment. For me, it was a big journey because I had dropped out of what you might call the truth of the world about 15 years ago because I wasn't really a fan of the disempowerment that comes along with a lot of it. I like that it leads to an open-mindedness, which I really like. But what I didn't like was that people would often get stuck in these identities and programs that I found didn't really serve people. So I dropped out of that and I was doing film and photography. I was doing a lot of things prior to 2020. And then when I made the Can You Catch a Virus video, it kind of put me back into that realm. And I really felt that there was a role to play there. But as the years progressed, I noticed that things weren't getting better for a lot of people. And a lot of the more subtle messages that I was trying to share, I felt were being lost a lot and I was getting actually really drained. So over time, especially over the last few years, I really tried to refine what it is that I'm helping to share because I saw what was happening insofar as what feels good, what feels like change, or what feels like we're doing something good either for ourselves or for the world wasn't really correlating to that happening in the world. And I saw things getting actually worse in a lot of cases. So over the last few years, I've just progressively moved out of that truth of what you might call movement and more just back into sharing what it is that can help us live a better life no matter what happens externally in the world. Because I saw a lot of people just trying to still focus on the next thing that was going to prevent them from being who they want to be. And I was like, but that's backwards. So over the last few years, and especially over the last six months, I've really pulled away from that and focus a lot more on what it is that helps us to do that naturally in the world. And those are the lessons of natural law. Yeah, man, I hear you. I know we talked a little bit about this stuff when you were in California, but it's interesting to see people on a similar page. I think we're in the same boat there. I feel similarly about the quote-unquote truth or conspiracy world. It just seems like it's continuing to be focused on negativity and more doom and gloom and more victimhood as opposed to positivity. And I don't mean false positivity, but just empowerment and excitement for living your values and creation and productivity and connection. I know that's where we're at. The things we keep talking about these days. So I want to ask you, what do you think are the biggest, if you want to get more detailed about the truth or conspiracy world? Because you talked about certain identities and programs. Will you want to elaborate on that some more? Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think one of the biggest drawbacks for a lot of people is the whole identity. So if I just start there, we can then work backwards. So a lot of people are familiar, especially as they come into this kind of world, they start realizing the government's not what they were taught when they were a kid and neither is a lot of the world. And so what a lot of people come to the conclusion of is that our identity as in our driver's license, our passport, our straw man that leads to that is like, that's the thing that's binding us to the system. That's the thing that's like the evil. But if you were to give that away, would your life really change? And for most people, the answer is no, because they don't know who they are. So they might relinquish a government identity, but they still have all these other identities that rule them. So they're still a slave to the whole kind of umbrella topic of ID or identity. (6:29 - 9:42) I identify as this, like I identify as a truther or I identify as somebody who is not a slave to the government. So therefore I'm quote unquote sovereign. But the default agreements that are formed from that are literally the same identities that were binding them in the first place. So once we transcend that idea of identity and identification, then we can get more into who we really are, what the world really is, what really is binding us, because it's not something external, it's this internal mechanism. So from that, from identities, there's all these programs that run along with that. So from when we're young, we all like, this isn't news to most people listening to your show, but we're indoctrinated with a lot, whether it's from the familial mind and then the societal mind, and then what's programmed through schooling, television, media of all kinds. And that really sets up a lot of systems within us that continue on their own loops. And until we break those, we're not really free of anything anyway. Even if we think we've given our ID or our birth certificate back, it hasn't freed us at all because we still have these loops that run. So that's the premise of identity and program. So any way you want to go with that is- Yeah. Well, what would you say are some of the signposts that someone is genuinely breaking free from identity and kind of shedding that illusion? What are those signposts for themselves on that journey to say, hey, I am becoming more free now? Oh, absolutely. So first of all, it's just their state of being. They're more relaxed, they're more happy, they're more optimistic in general. They're also more invested. And I always use these words because they're very key, like invested, investment, currency, it's all very key. So they're much more invested in what they're doing. So they might be like, okay, well, today what I'm focusing on is what I'm creating from who I really am. So they might spend more time getting to know who they really are. And the last set is a question like they might sit in the morning and like, who am I really? Or they might talk to God or life or creator, however you want to say that. And they're like, what is my purpose for today? Like, how can I best serve my role and purpose here today? How can I best be a service to others and be a light in the world? And that lights them up. So they're not then going to go on Facebook and what's the next way I'm apparently going to die today? Or what's the next thing that's preventing me from being healthy? How much more are they spraying? How much worse is the food? How much worse is the soil? How is this financial collapse going to be? Which pedophile or transgender is going to be the president of something today? Like they don't focus on that. They're more invested in who they are and what they're doing. So that's a really big sign. And outwardly, what that looks like is just a more relaxed state of being, more of a willingness to engage in life and not retreat and withdraw from life. And whatever life might give them today, they're excited about it rather than like depressed or fighting or resisting something. And that also, you'll see it in their eyes. It's usually a bit more, there's more of a light in the eye. It's more of a softer gaze. It's more of a long reaching gaze rather than this like wide eyes, like, oh shit, like what's right in front of me. It's kind of like a fear response that's constantly running. To me though, signs of somebody is more on that path of breaking through identities and programs and more importantly, creating those for themselves. Because there's a maximum of law and it's under natural law that says what you create, you own. (9:43 - 13:38) So if I'm the one creating narratives and it's making you or anybody else scared, because I create that and most of this is in the unseen world, I own that. So I own the framework for that, including the energy given from that, which is your fear or your resistance to it. So if we reverse that, because again, under natural law, it's a maximum, we're all equal before and under the law. If someone else can do that, well, I can do that too. So if I'm now creating my own programs, I'm creating my own identities that might be more beneficial to me and others right now, then I'm in control of that framework, the investment, the currency that runs through that. So you can really see that in people and whether they're like, quote, unquote, awake or not, generally speaking, somebody in that state is doing better in life than somebody who's on the receiving end of so many offers to keep them indebted. Yeah, yeah. Totally, man. Thanks for the explanation. One thing that I noticed is like, and I don't want to collectivize the truth community, there's aspects within it, obviously. But I would say the less evolved aspects of it believe that they've been somehow endowed with secret knowledge and secret information that nobody else has. And then you read their takes, and it's more irrational, more nonsensical than most of what's coming even from the side that doesn't consider themselves part of the truth community or anything like that. And it's just a laugh, man, when I read that shit. There's a level of intellectual arrogance that I notice. Yeah, it's a level of elitism. So what people do, they're so focused on the elite. So like, I've got this secret knowledge because I came across this thing that the Illuminati or something does that you don't know about. I do. And it's a form of elitism in itself. It's like a way to separate yourself from your disempowerment. It gives you a false sense. We're going to make that clear. It's a false sense of empowerment. Because if I have something that other people don't, well, that gives me perceived value. So I know what the Rockefellers really did to the president of this in some cave. And that's what this symbol means. And you don't know it. So I now have some kind of perceived currency or power. But realistically, like, as we would say, it's kind of like that's a bit of an illusion or it's a full illusion. But that's like, I understand it too. It's why I used to mock a lot, like you probably know that. Kind of got known for being a bit of a dick in a lot of ways. So I don't do that so much now because I also understand where that comes from. I understand what it's like to be disempowered or disenfranchised or living in fear or something to that effect. So I'm really careful now about not mocking, but just trying to give a more empowered message because it can't help people to be mocked out of their disempowerment. Well, yeah. And then if we do that and let me be the first to say that I have my moments of being a dick, it's like we're doing the same thing that we're saying they're doing, you know what I mean, in some way. And it just doesn't ultimately it doesn't ultimately go anywhere. And the reality is we've been there. You know, we don't just wake up. We just don't like learn about, let's say, 9-11. And then the next day, we're at the state and having the dialogues that we're having right now. You know what I mean? At some point, you know, we were focused on everyone in the world and the evildoers and the elites. And so, it's a natural progression and evolution. So it's like, I need to catch myself when I find myself being all these fucking truthers, you know, which, okay, sometimes you can do it. You're with friends. You're talking smack. You're talking shit. It's, you know, it's fine occasionally. But generally speaking, it's like, I don't I want to be mindful on how I'm communicating about these things. Because again, it's like, there is that part of me that has compassion and understands like the evolution of a person's worldview. (13:38 - 15:41) Well, there seems to kind of be like a natural arc when you decide to be someone who's outspoken in this space. And I think like the mocking part and just pointing it out and laughing, ha ha ha, is certainly part of that. But I think as you kind of mature in it, and this is a word that has a negative connotation now, but there is a positive use of it in this case. Like, you genuinely become more inclusive, in the sense that for your message to cut across as best as possible, you want to have awareness of what people's charges are. And you want to be mindful in utilizing and organizing your words in a way that's actually going to cut through, as opposed to just completely blindsiding a certain group of people by mocking them or, you know, whatever it might be. Yeah, absolutely. But that's all because I tell you, because I can speak from my personal experience with this. One of the reasons that I would mock and do things like that, which can still be fun, like there's still a place for it, I have to say. If some people have been like, really, really ridiculous, just pointing it out is like, it can be the right thing to do. But one of the reasons that I would do it is that it was me that was hiding. So, it was me that was like, okay, I've got this. I didn't want it in the first place. It was kind of like life put me there to speak about things or speak up about things. And instead of fully stepping into that, like a mature man, I was being a bit of a boy child and just kind of sitting back from really meeting that position and actually honoring it and just kind of like sitting back behind it a little and just kind of pointing fingers and laughing and doing a bit of that. So, that was less about what other people were doing and more about me and not actually stepping into that role and actually having enough humility or maturity to actually just go, actually, no, I will take this role that's been put before me and I'll do it to the best of my ability. And in all honesty, I wasn't doing it to the best of my ability. That's why I would always use sarcasm and humor, which I still love to do because it's fun and it's funny. And I think it's got value. There's time and a place. Exactly. But that was the majority of what I was doing. (15:41 - 16:19) So, instead of giving something just directly helpful, I would just laugh at stuff instead, because it was the easier way out, which is a weakness. And while it still has its place, like you say, time and place, I mean, obviously, I'm still proud of a lot of the stuff that I did because there was a lot of calmness and there was a lot of things that actually helped people get results. But as far as stepping into that role is what I'm talking about, I didn't fully step into that role. I only feel like I'm starting to do that now. And yeah, it just took a lot of letting go of identities or refusal to meet an identity as well, which is all disempowerment, all the stuff that I was mocking. So, yeah, good journey. (16:19 - 16:58) Yeah. I want to add too, because I found in my personal life is that like, when I'm heavily like mocking or dismissing, you know, or that part of me is kind of like hijacked my thinking and behavior, like, it's very often like, I'm not really content and happy with who I am and what my purpose is and do I really know myself on a deep level. It's like, it's a way to kind of keep myself from the vulnerability of maybe I'm not doing the kind of work that I want to do. Maybe I don't have the relations I have. Maybe I'm not successful in the way that I want to be successful. So, it's like you get that hit of like good feeling by putting someone else down. (16:59 - 17:27) Well, I think, you know, introspecting in the moments that I resort to mocking as a form of response are the times when I'm probably more actually insecure about what my genuine views or genuine beliefs are on this topic that I'm engaging in, you know. And I see that a lot as well. It comes from an insecurity and a vulnerability of, oh, do I know enough about what I'm talking about? Am I actually right? How confident am I in that? And that's where you kind of want to try blanket someone else down instead of engaging in genuine, you know, discussion. (17:28 - 18:41) Well, definitely, Joel, I've seen a few of your podcasts, your posts on Facebook, especially more recently. Like, social media is weird. I won't see anything from anyone for ages. And I'm like, a year later, I'm like, oh, do they even exist anymore? You have to go look for them to see what they've been talking about. But some of the stuff I've seen from you, Joel, it's just been really lazy. It's really focused. There's no like fluff in it. And that shows me that that is what you're talking about. You have a full certainty and confidence in what you're saying because it's just the message itself is inherently true. And you're really, you're aligning with that like on a personal level. So, you're living it. And I think that really comes through. You can really tell. So, hearing that come from you now, because I've seen it myself, you can see that that's the progression instead of needing to hide behind an insecurity. It's like that's falling away and it's just coming into this clarity of a message. And you asked me, I was saying, you know, when I message or I commented on that one that you put out because I've met you and I've felt that and I've seen it. It's like, that's really congruent. And that's what's different from somebody who can say the same words and maybe even a massive big following from it somehow because it's like it sounds fanciful. (18:42 - 21:14) It's different from somebody who's actually doing it because it carries beyond the words. There's like a resonance that carries further. Yeah, totally, man. Totally. And thank you for that, bro. I really appreciate that acknowledgement. One thing you mentioned before, you know, like performing at the best of my ability, like I feel like that's a fallacy in and of itself, you know, because like what is that end goal that is the best of my ability? It's like if we observe like our own growth of knowledge as always fallible, then there's kind of always room to improve, you know. It's like we're always in a process of becoming. It's like it's really hard for me to say when I'm in my peak because, you know, I know there's always room for adjustment and room for growth there. Yeah, definitely. It's more in the moment, like are you meeting the moment? So, am I doing the best that I can to be present with you and reach into the part of me that is like beyond how do I look? How do I sound? I know you two guys and I like you. So, it's like am I going to joke around with you? I'm like going to take it seriously, like am I meeting the moment and is it authentic and is it pure? Is it the right expression at the right time? That's what I mean by reaching that part as opposed to like am I at the peak of what I'm going to reach in this lifetime? Like you said, that's a fallacy in itself. So, that's why like what I really try to help people find through the work I'm doing is that in a place that's like you're the only one who can get close enough to that connection because that's closer to God than anything in the external world that can be validated by another person or even your ego extensive. Okay, I did 100 push-ups every day now. So, now that's the peak because that's nothing. That's just an external representation of a construct of the mind. It's nothing like tangible and real. So, yeah, I totally agree. I think a lot of that whole self-help world or the personal empowerment world is actually really almost purely focused on that. Like peak performance, peak potential, peak this, peak that but like you just said Joel, it doesn't really exist like that. So, when you turn it around and you get the inversion of the inversion which is that in a world, you can find that if you're moment in every possible way that you can. Yeah, totally. I don't know if you're open to talking about this. If you're not, just let me know and completely dismiss me. Obviously, you're a big part of the Living Free community, you founded, co-founded, whatever. Through the grapevine, I heard there's a falling out of some sorts. Are you open to going into kind of what happened there at all? Yeah, I mean, I always say this before any podcast, I don't want to know what's going to be asked. I'll talk about anything anyone wants to talk about. So, yeah. Cool. (21:15 - 22:03) Yeah. So, what kind of happened? Well, it was more just, I feel like it was a parting of a natural progression of different journeys. So, for me, again, like if I go back to what I was saying before about how I wasn't stepping into my full role, one of the reasons that I was open to even starting something like that in the first place was from a place of not wanting to fully step into who I really am. So, I could just kind of, again, hide a little bit behind what I was like. Deep down, we all know our true calling and what we do and don't need to do, right? Yeah. Like if you're 25 kilos overweight or 50 kilos overweight, you can convince yourself you need to see a psychiatrist or hire a coach or do this or do another course or whatever. But at the end of the day, you don't need a surgery. You don't need a coach. You just need to put that cake down. (22:03 - 23:58) But just don't put that cake in your mouth. You know what you have to do. You're just not doing it. So, inherently, I always knew what I wasn't doing, but I would find ways to hide that and just step into something else. So, first of all, there was a lot of value in what I did and what we did together. It helped a lot of people and a lot of people were finding a lot of personal value in it irrespective of me or anyone else involved. And so, on a personal level, people were still getting a lot out of it. But for me, I was just always kind of sitting behind this reason not to be fully who I really am. Like I was still hiding. But then, naturally, as you grow beyond that, like let's say somebody takes a 9 to 5 job and they're like, I'm doing this to feed my family. I'm doing this because it's helping people. And you're justifying it every point. But at the end of the day, you know you're not really doing what like eventually you're going to get like there's going to be tension within without all that. And it's just not going to last or you're going to like destroy yourself in the process of staying. So, it was just literally a matter of parting of ways that happened gradually over time. You'd see things differently. You perceive things differently. So, that was basically it. It just got to the point where I was like I can't keep doing that for myself even if it's like that was my safety and security as well. So, that was my income that I'd built up. That was what I traded my initial trust and value from, from what I'd sacrificed to get to that point of having an audience, having enough trust to ask for a monetary exchange in return for a private membership. And so, yeah, I was just like, well, if I'm going to let go of what I wasn't doing, like the identity that I had, if I'm going to let go of that, I have to also let go of the safety and security that came with it because otherwise like I'm not really willing. So, that was it. It was investing in myself to just change and back myself and go in the direction that I felt was a true representation of me. (23:59 - 24:33) Yeah. I love that, man. Answering the call, bro. And the call comes many times throughout a lifetime. And like very often it's like the test is like when we're dependent materially or financially on something and still having the courage to like honor our inner truth, despite that and having genuine trust in God and walking alongside the God in that manner that when I full-heartedly pursue what I know deep within me is the right path for me, that I'm going to be supported. That's the shit right there. (24:35 - 25:00) Yeah. It's scary too for all of us. If it's the calling and it's too easy, it's kind of like probably not the calling. I think it's always got to come with a little bit of like the whole hero's journey, right? It's a little bit like, I believe in myself, do I believe in myself that much? Because I gave every part of that business away. Like literally once I walked away, not only did I not receive anything after that, but I gave everything to everyone else. Yeah. (25:00 - 25:16) Just gave it. So like that was my test to be like, all right, I do believe in myself in that way. But it comes with a bit of like, this better work out. Yeah. Like you have that as well. I think if it's not there, it's probably not a big enough test. (25:17 - 26:57) Tom, what do you think have been some of the most catalyzing moments? I know sometimes we ask this question to the first time guests, but when you talk about the ever unfolding process of knowing myself more and more, what have been some things that have been really impactful for you, or what have been some of the big aha moments or circumstances that have kind of made you go like, oh fuck, I'm bullshitting myself or I need to go this direction versus that direction. Now a short break from the episode. If you're looking for a thriving community of truth seekers that don't take life too seriously, but also really willing to get in the deep end and have vulnerable conversations, build connections, keep it real, and really grow together, then Friends of the Truth, our membership community is absolutely the place for you. Just a single price tier now of $17 US per month, you get access to a slate of five calls per month, including members-only live podcasts with guests from our podcast that we bring on and our members get to interact live in a Zoom setting, ask some questions, etc., as well as diving deep into a bunch of other really awesome topics. And you get a whole backlog of 100 plus hours of calls. And not to mention my favorite part is our private Telegram community. We're just laughing, sharing memes, sharing quotes, sharing books, sharing ideas, sharing tips on health, well-being, all the amazing stuff. So if that is something that interests you, you can head to hereforthetruth.com forward slash F O T T, or go to hereforthetruth.com and hit the Friends of the Truth button. Back to the episode. (26:58 - 29:25) Well, one of the biggest ones is committing to a woman. So that's been a big thing, like getting into union with Summer. That's been huge because you can't hide from a lot of things there. Yeah, just also moving into believing I'm worthy of more because like, okay, so I think we spoke about this when I hung out with you, like growing up with a very poverty-ridden mindset of life is extremely hard and difficult. You should be grateful for every little scrap of anything. You should never spend more than a certain amount. Like why would you buy handmade sourdough bread when white bread is 89 cents? Like we're blessed to live in a world with white bread for 89 cents and medications given to you left, right, and center from a doctor just to stop you from being in that. It's like this fear-ridden poverty mindset that when that's programmed into you from a really young age, from all angles, it can take a lot to come out of that. I think what a lot of people do is they swing on that pendulum way too far. So they just go, well, I'm worth a million dollars a minute and everybody should just pay me to spend one hour working a week on my laptop by the pool and just shower me with praise and money. But it's not really work and it's not value. So that in itself comes with a lot of, that will come with a lot of feelings of grief and shame and other things that are laden with that. But point being is that for me coming out of those kinds of mindsets and stepping into not like an Andrew Take kind of a version of that, but into a more refined and more, I guess just a more authentic version of like me. It's kind of like, am I okay to be me no matter what that is? And so that has come through being put into the public spotlight that came through starting and then leaving a fairly large online platform that came through going into union with a woman that I love. And that's come through like what I'm doing now, which is now looking to travel more and meet more people and find more opportunity, which like, it's amazing. And we've had a great time, but it's also a lot of hard work. And it's a lot of a willingness to be uncomfortable and to be in situations that are very unknown, but just to keep trusting. So I really feel like to summarize it, it's that whole, that willingness to trust that if you're willing to meet life, that life will be giving you that next step even if you can't see what it is. (29:26 - 29:37) Thanks, bro. We'll sit on that. And I love that, you know, you start off by saying like committing to a woman, like partnership has been the biggest like growth for me. (29:37 - 32:15) I mean, beyond committing like to my wife, but even just throughout the years, you know, like getting into partnership and being with someone and having an intimate relationship and what stuff bubbles up to the surface, what patterns come up where you're like, fuck, like I need to like pay attention to this and be curious about this. Cause like, I want to improve as a man, I want to improve in partnership. And, you know, the three of us are in, you know, loving relationships and I'm grateful that we are. And it's pretty, pretty incredible the amount of growth that happens when you commit to a woman who also like holds your feet to the fire in a certain way, you know, it just doesn't let you get away with bullshit. But that's what a good woman will do in my opinion. And like the risk to be fully seen and to be fully called out is probably the greatest risk of all. Like, and it has the biggest payoff in my experience. Yeah. Well, a lot of people will say that the way to a man's true wealth is through his woman because she's like that or she's more connected to that more etheric realm, right? So it's easier for her to see what we don't see or ahead of time, like what we're falling into. And a good woman will definitely do that. Will, will really help clear out a man blockages to inheriting his own kingdom. So I do like, it's not that I have this belief that that's the only way, but I know that I've seen a lot of people, a lot of men dedicate to what they would call the spiritual path and then issuing women and having children in, in pursuit of this purity spiraling. And we will call it, it's like, everything's just got to be pure and all of this stuff. But it's like, I don't see that leading a man to his inner kingdom, the way it can be found through, you know, willing to go through that fire with a woman, like the right woman who will actually be able to help you in that, in that way. And then like, me and Erasmus aren't there yet, but obviously Joel, having kids must be a whole other, having a family to look after, not just a woman to look after is like a next level of that, which I'm definitely looking forward to, but obviously can't speak to that because I don't have that experience, but you do. So I would imagine that's another, another level again, right? Oh, absolutely. It's, it's, it's another level again, man. You know, but like the axiom holds true with great responsibility comes, you know, great power, great freedom, great reward, you know, and like, you take on that responsibility, you take on that burden and it kind of forces you to go deeper into the underworld and go collect more treasure, you know, which is even beyond that you believe you could muster, you know, like I love the Vernon Howard quote, as many, you know, as infinite stars as there are in the sky and the same amount of infinite riches exist within you. (32:15 - 34:18) And that's something I definitely hold true. And it's like, again, the more, the more risk, the more responsibility, like the more we're genuinely being called forward to bring those forth. And it's like the right path to me as my family grows. And as I continue on this journey, it's like the right decision, the right path is never going to be at the cost of my ability to have healthy relationships with them. It's never going to be at their expense of their sacrifice ever. And so, in my personal decision-making process, like that's a clear signpost for me of when something is right because if I can genuinely pursue it without taking away from the duties that I need to, you know, bring to the table inside the home. Yeah, man, well said. But you know what's really interesting is that any man can take a woman and father a child and it doesn't take any honor or any sacrifice to do that. This is the funny thing about the subtleties of life is that to do that in the way that will actually help to give what you just explained, that's a decision, that's a choice because I could get any woman I want if I use force or manipulation or, you know, like whatever, like everything that's like not a good thing, I could do that. I can make a child without, you know, it doesn't take a lot to do that, actually takes almost nothing. I could get as drunk and take as much cocaine as I want and I can still make a child and I don't even have to look after the child. You know, I can traumatize and beat that kid and neglect it and it'll still grow up to be an adult, you know, so it's kind of like I think it's a good metaphor for a lot of things like we can work, you know, we can wake up and go and do stuff in the world every day but how are we doing that because that's always a choice that belongs to us. Are we going to accept the offer to just sit back and just, you know, coast through life and just be our avatar or be our identity and then hide behind that or are we actually going to step into life and meet it and that's a daily choice. So it's something that takes a lot of courage, I think. You guys, like do you find that as well because I know we all have a different experience and we come from different backgrounds but for me, that's like I have to make that choice every day and not every day I succeed either. (34:18 - 34:25) Yeah. That's another thing though. We're going to post that cocaine and beating children clip completely out of context as well. (34:25 - 34:34) Yes. Like the unicorn, blowing unicorns and stuff. Yeah, the blowing unicorns, that was famous. (34:35 - 34:49) Oh, wow. I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah. That was episode two, the second one we had together, right? Somehow we're talking about like the floods or something. I forget what the context of that was but that was funny. What was I going to say? I forgot. (34:49 - 37:06) He asked a question. What was the question? Is it a daily choice because we all come from a different background and we have different lives, like do you find that there's that whole needing to meet the moment and sometimes you don't succeed and all that? Yeah, I think so, man. Life is a dance, man. Sometimes I kick ass and sometimes maybe I take a step back. Sometimes I want more challenges in my life and then other times I'm okay with maybe going with the flow or taking it easy and I think that's okay too because very often I think people get so stuck in rigidity on one side versus the other and I'll keep saying this over and over again, I feel like a more conscious evolved individual understands the dance, understands how to stand between the tension of opposites, how to navigate through opposites and understanding that like different things call you forward to bring different things in. Maybe sometimes you want to sit on the couch and watch a TV show for three hours and that's okay as opposed to you do it and then you spend the next 24 hours beating yourself up over it and it's like, well, there's a disconnect there as opposed to, hey, I just spent all this time focusing on something, building my business and at the same time I have an aspect of me that wants to sit next to my wife and sit on the couch and snuggle up and watch a show and be entertained and laugh and then go and have the next day and not have noise around it. It's like the seamless flow between different parts of us that are appropriate to the situation based on our value system without this unconscious flip-flopping or heavy inner critic that's just bashing us every moment. Does that make sense? It makes sense. That's key. I don't expect perfectionism of myself at any given point in time. Karl Popper, 20th century philosopher, to summarize, he said, all knowledge creation comes through conjecture and critique. In other words, we all learn by trial and error. I understand that I'm going to continue to make errors, which are also opportunities for me to continue to refine. It's the old axiom, fail as much as possible as quickly as possible. That happens when you engage fully with life, when you meet life fully head-on, when you're willing to meet the moment and be there fully. (37:07 - 37:12) I accept the costs that come with that. To me, they're not really costs. It's gold. (37:13 - 1:41:25) Absolutely. Meeting the moment is meeting a mistake if that's what it's meant to be and not beating yourself up about it. The other thing too, if you're going to sit and watch a movie, that's meeting the moment if that's the moment because what a lot of people won't do because I've been around this and I was like this is I'll find every reason not to because I'm not worthy of that. I'm not busy enough. I didn't do enough. I can't sit on the couch. Meeting the moment isn't about always being busy and always striving and all that. It's actually just like, is this the right time to just hold my wife's hand and just take a moment and take a breath or watch a movie or because one of my favorite quotes which I'm basing one of my presentations at Anakapulco was about this. It's the Taoist expression of doing nothing and leaving nothing undone because a lot of the times we're just constantly in this world of doing and not enough into the being of who we are. If we're being who we are, it might be doing something courageous in the moment if that's what life requires but being might just be being still and watching the clouds for like an hour and that's what life wants from that moment and if you dishonor that and dishonor yourself, you go into debt. That's the thing. So like, oh no, I can't do that. That's a waste of time. That's for hippies. That's for like whatever, unicorns and shit. It's like I've got to just crush this business proposal till midnight. Sometimes life calls for that but you've got to learn to discern the difference, right? And then the key is what's driving that? Is it the identity that's driving that? Is it a life like what do you call it? Like a bypassing? Yeah. So often it's this need for self like to prove that you have worth and to prove that you're worthy you know with some of the decision making that we make and the behavior that we do and so that's a real subtle program like why are you saying that thing? Why are you doing that thing? Why are you behaving that manner and is it this subtle way of being like I want someone to tap me on the back and go you're good. You did a good job. You're smart. You're a good friend. Whatever the case may be as opposed to like it arising from a more organic place and it's not about the external validation or the pat on the back. Yeah. Well, the way I kind of view what you shared was I value a healthy balanced psyche. I value a healthy body. I value a healthy relationship with my wife. I value a healthy relationship with my kids and sometimes that calls for doing nothing for not being productive in the traditional sense that calls for me being present having time with them watching a movie with them eating a tub of ice cream with them whatever it might be you know and so I think for the individual that doesn't recognize the value in that I would say they haven't really assessed what their true values are and I mean this is the case most people are just living their lives based on conditioned values, conditioned beliefs, imposed ideas of what is correct for them without really assessing for themselves what's actually important to me like I would not enjoy my work. I would not enjoy building. I would not enjoy creating if it was fucking disarray in my house and I was you know sacrificing the relationships which mattered most to me 24 7 in order to build something. It's not worth building this business. It's not worth being creative at the cost of the things other things that I value you know. I guess you have to know what you really value first and foremost of course and even also too like it depends on the individual so let's say if someone hasn't made the commitment to a woman to grow in partnership in union or have children you know their value system is going to be different so like us talking about like holding our partner's hand and sitting on the couch and watching a movie like that just may be a foreign thing to someone who like that's not part of their day-to-day but whatever if they have something else that may bring more balance as opposed to the rigidity of like I work 20 hours a day that's it and like I'm not taking care of myself and I have no human relationships or human contact that's healthy you know what I mean. So how do you guys discern or develop a value system like so for somebody that might be sitting there just going well I don't know what my values are like is it what the church tells me is that what the tv tells me the government like how do you guys find that it's a good way to find that for yourself. Bro the way that I like to approach values is like first and foremost what is it what is evidentially true that you value where in your actual world on your desk in your life can you find evidence of values because it's always going to happen whether consciously or unconsciously you know and so some people have these vague values like integrity love harmony whatever it might be but what is the day-to-day proof of your values of the things that you're actually interested in because like I said whether it happens consciously or unconsciously all our actions are being derived from values somewhere you know so that's where I like to point people to start when it comes to really understanding what one values. Well and also being honest with yourself too like if I'm honest like I value my phone you know I'm on it I use it I connect with people I communicate with it but a that even though they touch this for like eight hours a day they would if you said hey what are your values they probably wouldn't mention that they value their phone. But the reasons you value your phone are also beyond just the phone you value laughter you value connecting with friends you guys in communication etc. Yeah for sure and I guess like to your initial question like I think it's a process too you know you have to go on an introspective journey you have to be curious about yourself like hey why do I but why do I like this why do I believe this oh well I was raised this way well do I really like this I mean I tend to approach things especially the last like 11 years from a human design standpoint you know and knowing that I'm a generator and being like oh shit what lights me up now again a person has to determine like is this is this organic do they really light them up or are they doing is it a trauma response you know does it open them up do they get like lifted excited like for me it's like what excites me you know and then I go in that direction now I may be into something for two years and not being into something the same thing two years later so it's just following this thread of excitement that guides me towards more and more of the things that I value and and and hopefully hopefully turning down the noise of the programming and the conditioning from family and society that is like no you shouldn't do this because we've raised you and conditioned you to be into this and it's like no no this this it's coming from within somewhere and am I honoring that so that's kind of been my guiding force in life is like the excitement and the enthusiasm towards things towards people towards experiences towards situation that is feels more expansive as opposed to contractive so I feel like you know something you could go towards something from a contracted state and it's like well maybe that's fear that's driving the thing you're going towards the problem is that most people believe that their authentic desires are out of reach or are an impossibility so they just sell themselves short whereas when you decide to act and you go on the journey genuinely in the in you know to discover for me personally I've proven to myself that I can have the best of the best beyond even what I could conceive at the moment of going in the journey like my my career my business partnership what I get to do every day the relationship I have with my wife the relationship I have with my kids is genuinely better than I ever conceived when I first kind of really embarked on this journey of self-discovery and of like full expression yeah man well said oh not that I did I think you just said it perfectly and you know something I want to speak to is like you mentioned before like you know the person that can't even give themselves permission to sit on the couch watch the movie because they got to do the other things they got to tick the other boxes they can't have have the extra chocolate whatever it might be and so I've been kind of contemplating lately like kind of where does that come from and you know for so many of us we were raised in ways where like we weren't genuinely given the opportunities to build our own knowledge and to build our own reason and so much of that was via force and coercion sometimes in overt ways sometimes in more covert ways you know and it's it's kind of like there's this parenting philosophy that I'm really into at the moment called taking children seriously which we're going to get deeper into on a personal episode but it's like let the child develop their own reason let them eat four chocolates and then get an upset tummy and then refine from that point in time let them watch five hours of tv then realize their eyes hurt or they don't feel that good and then kind of refine from there whereas for most of us we have this monkey mind this voice that comes in the superego voice the parents whatever it might be that whips us before we can fully engage and learn and understand for ourselves so there's so much deconditioning to be done in terms of you know those these subtle ways which have been forced in terms of knowledge creation in in the first place as well yeah one of the ways that the um you know it's the way that things are programmed like that is to set people up to have a schism in them for example giving such easy access to so much content between youtube streaming platforms social media in general you could literally spend 24 hours a day if you could stay awake 24 hours a day seven days a week you could be titillated entertained or in some way like you live a fantasy life that entire time there's that much out there but at the same time given the message that you're wasting time this is a waste of your life you are addicted to these things you are ruled by your phone or your television so it's like providing all of this such easy access to the ability to do that yet also the guilt and shame that comes along with that so to me it's irrespective of whether you do or you don't do that the fact is that most people are split in their being because of the choices that make like most people know that eating you know like 15 twinkies a day is not good for them so they're also going to beat themselves up about they're going to do it and beat themselves up about or feel guilt or shame or whatever or you do the opposite which is purity spiraling which is like i'm eating this vegan organic cacao yoni ceremonial thing therefore i'm awesome because i'm not bad like i don't eat that i'm not a twinkie eater i'm awesome i am this i'm not so you're getting all these identities around that i'm elite because i don't do that so and either side is imbalanced either side's going to harm it's going to come at a detriment to the being so like to me that's that's like where if you were uh somewhat of a humorous tyrant tyrant that's kind of what you would do right like just put all this fish food out there for people plus like the carrot and the stick and just what just sit back and laugh because it's very rare that people are actually finding that part of themselves that can transcend that and therefore eat of eat a healthy thing or eat a not so healthy thing not watch tv watch tv but either way it's coming from their internal compass not from a program that's going to push pull at their energy and their being i think that's a really really key distinction in and especially joel that's why i like that you said that the deep programming can happen in kids because kids we as human beings are super intelligent like i know a lot of people do really dumb stuff and it's really funny they'll point out and laugh at but at the end of the day outside of those programs before that happens we're actually all really really amazingly intelligent capable quite magical beings and so if you can take them from a young age to help them come into that rather than the programming there's no there's literally nothing that they can't figure out for themselves as they go through and all of that that's out there which i call an offer everything's an offer is just it's just that yeah it can be you can accept it not accept it negotiate it you can renegotiate in your favor you can draw currency from it you can create something entirely different and more powerful there's so many things you can do if you come through that way or as an adult deprogram yourself to an extent that you can also do that yeah hey tom what's what's your definition of natural law just the natural ways of life like what governs us in the way that we can step into life so the simplest analogy i give is if you stay up all night eating twinkies and doing cocaine you're going to be tired and depressed the next day but that's a natural law a natural law is also if you honor your circadian rhythms if you honor the moment and you're meeting life in so far as your hydration breath diet rest relationships and whatever you'll feel more full of vitality you'll feel you'll feel good inside you do something good you'll feel good you do something bad you'll end up feeling bad but that in its in its essence is natural law a lot of people think that it's to do with like speeding fines and the government and all that it's actually got nothing to do with that those things are regulated by natural law natural laws like the umbrella which then is where things like commerce and trust law and common law and all those different like laws the law is also an acronym sorry it's a synonym because it's um law is land air water that implies a jurisdiction but laws are actually l-o-r-e story so with the story of life that's created by the creator whatever you want to call that god life creator whatever that's a story and then how do we fit with that story how do we co-write the story of life do we just sit back and just like play the narrative that some other um like intermediary energy has created so there's a creator but then if you're following from governments and tvs and influences and whatever well then you program so you're just following a narrative that's not yours nor is it your blueprint or the creator's like you know path for you so that's where most people are stuck that's why they're indebted they're constantly giving currency to that which is not of them or of their creator so as you start to rewrite those laws l-o-r-e and the story and you're co-creating from that place that is inherently you then now you're actually coming under the true laws and it's the laws of cause and effect essentially thank you for that yeah i mean to me like i summarized that as like my personal relationship with truth you know it's like we all know what is true for us what kind of works for us and we all kind of know when we kind of skirt that line or kind of bypass what's what's really true and we kind of pay the cost for that time and time again you know i've personally found him in my life and yeah it's like how can i cultivate you know the most authentic relationship with truth as i possibly can absolutely i went through 20 years of chronic fatigue before i snapped out of it and uh a lot of pain and a lot of a lot of things that was my lesson so it's kind of like that's where you know you're like breaking the law so like people think breaking the law means doing something petty and going to jail but you if you break the law the real law you're like it's it's got nothing to do with men or handcuffs or courts but you break the law you'll suffer if you follow the law you'll you'll do well in life yeah and you and you have to pay the price and sometimes we like continue to break a certain law over and over again and then we like kind of shove it under this rug in the back of the unconscious the shadow realm so to speak and we think it's never going to come for us but my personal experience oh it comes hot and heavy and it's just a matter of you know letting it recalibrate you and kind of riding its wave or living living a disingenuous life living a life half lived living a burdenless life when you don't need to you know like there's no denying the cost that comes with that yeah and it will also come at the end it's one of those things that people say regret is like such a heavy thing and you can convince yourself all you like that you're living life and doing the right thing and whatever but it comes to a point where for those that are a bit less for those that have i would say just say less potential for finding that deeper part of themselves in this particular lifetime it'll probably come like at the end after a lot and then they might justify but for people who are more on the path like what you were saying it comes quick then it will happen within moments or in the moment you'll feel you'll know that you're actually not being authentic or you're not uh you know meeting the moment properly or you're trying to bypass or hide from something or justify something and it comes at a cost immediately for other people it could take a lifetime yeah dude like a cost course correction yeah it's like my personal reason has learned without a shadow of a doubt that nothing is worth lying to myself or lying to another over because that lie is going to stain everything else i do i want to carry it with me it's going to infect everything else i do like i've just learned that in my life you know so it's like that's it it'll catch up for sure whether it's immediately or later like that's why owen benjamin always says like that's why he always tells the truth because it's just like you got nothing to hide from then it's like it's really really easy to lie mostly it's easy to lie to yourself i think that's what when i talk about these lessons in natural law it's not about lying to others as much as it's about lying to yourself because at the end of the day everything just is extrapolation of that you go off course with yourself you're just going to be off course with everything else so like to me that's the fundamental error to correct is just like be okay you got to learn at some point that are you not an accident so then if you came here via choice and agreement which under natural law would be the case then you inherently have as a default agreement reason purpose value you're good enough you're meant to be here so that's your basic starting point whereas we're programmed out of that to think we're not good enough we have to earn our place here we're like you still have to do those things to an extent you have to step into who you are you don't just sit back and do nothing for your whole life and you're already super valuable yeah but just as an inherent base resonance you're also looked after you don't need government interference or medical interference to be healthy and vibrant in the world like there's nothing that can harm you except for yourself so then just to expand on that quickly like why do people go down those roads of like medication after medication and reliance on things well inherently they have a base resonance of fear i can't be okay i'm not made to be healthy so that's the basic belief system that's running their circuit so therefore that's how they make decisions and that's how their actions extend into the world from that base resonance but if you understand that it's like you already looked after safe valuable loved yeah purpose reason and meaning for being here isn't that going to give you a lot more clarity and how you can actually express into the world the decisions you'll make the way you see things for what they are the way you're able to navigate things and course correct as you said your asthma so it's like those things become inherently easier so does that make life easier no they're still going to have challenges you still have to step up to the plate you still have to work hard but it's just the navigation part is a lot easier so you're not going down these roads of regret or these roads of not actually meeting life because those will always inherently lead to justification and bypassing it's like yeah but we don't really have a choice like i didn't have a choice i had to do this to keep my job or something it's like that's not true or well you know you know i just i would do something different but i've got to feed my kids and whatever it's like yeah you do have to feed your kids but that's not an excuse not to step into who you are like that's actually a detriment because the kids feel that if dad's not living his life as a man the kids know that you're putting physical food on the table but the the real food which is the entirety of the room or bigger compared to this plate sized thing of physical food that's what you're feeding them you're feeding them fear disillusionment uh unsafe not safe not secure that's what they're really being fed so it's like it's so important that we don't bypass and we don't lie to ourselves and then justify and convince others because it begins with like we're lying to ourselves first so bring brings to mind the carl jung quote there is no greater burden the child carries than the unlived life of the parent you know so despite your best intentions they're going to be impacted by you know the path that you didn't walk in the path that you didn't follow absolutely and especially if you then just make it about them it's like well look i failed there's nothing i can do but you can do good you can just like well that's a bit of a yeah pressure yeah totally they pick up on the energy too you know what i mean so you can do the do the quote-unquote right thing say the right things but they know that's like you said y'all these kids these young children they're wise you know like just because maybe they they don't have their cerebral cortex as developed as maybe some adults may have i'm so tired i'm so tired of that comment like children can't develop reason till age seven because their prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed it's like what you think of this is magical thing that turns on at age seven like they are building reason the whole way even if it's not fully developed they're still building reason they're still building knowledge it's almost like this gateway to bypass engaging appropriately with our children you know where they are until age seven for this thing but anyway that's that's for another conversation yeah i want to ask you this question that has been asked many people uh in our history tom what is the meaning of life according to you well we're going there yeah we're going there and i've been talking about it lately and i'm just curious what tom how tom would answer that yeah i always say the same thing the meaning of life is to live now that's kind of like an ambiguous thing but it's like you can break that down but to me it's like that's my summary of it the meaning of life is to live i honestly feel most people are not living or not alive yeah because if you're living a program that you did not create you're not alive it's plain and simple if you're connecting to the fictional side of life because there's two realms you got the public and the private the private's living of substance and value the the the um the public is the fictional world of entities so you got man and woman which are living but the person or the name or the driver or the citizen or the resident is not alive it's a piece of paper it doesn't exist so if you're constantly identifying with that side of the equation or if you're constantly living through programs and illusions at what part do you really think you're alive the analogy of that is if you look at like or even this is a good analogy we're on zoom now and if i go oh there's me i can see me i'm over here there's your asimov but that's me it's like no that's a repro that's a digital representation of me there's no life in that that's my hand there hello but that hand that has no life in it that has no blood running through it there was no part of that that's alive that's the analogy like this this is for me but that's not but we constantly see illusions and we constantly see reflections and we associate with that and live through that therefore that's not us that's not us that's alive and well most people do go through their whole life living another person's story or another thought form story that's not even a physical being so like as a default mechanism how can you say that you're alive if that's what you're doing so for me the purpose of life is to live which means everything we've been talking about so far today yeah totally man brings to mind gurdjieff man is a machine all his deeds actions words thoughts feeling convictions and habits are the result of external influences out of himself a man cannot produce a single thought a single action everything he says does thinks feels all this happens you know and like that's the state of most people's life man it's like they're machines and i think to live is to recognize you know the mechanism of the machine yeah well thanks for that answer you know lately i've when when i've been contemplating this a good thing it relates i was just like the meaning of life is to truly know yourself on the deepest levels like know who you are what you truly value you not what's been projected onto you and what your gifts are and and give those gifts you know yeah i like i i like your answer a lot i think it's i think it's the correct answer because you we are nature and what's what's the meaning of the plants what's the meaning of the animal what's the meaning of the blade of grass all of it is to live you know the primary baseline of all natural organisms is its own survival without without its survival no other interests no other values are possible and i think you hit on something very important earlier and this is the primary schism i think in human development is this program of human unbelonging right where you've been made to believe that we're separate from nature that we don't belong on earth you know whether it's true religious conditioning of our life being an atonement you know for sin or guilt or through gnostic conditioning that we're condemned to some kind of you know middle hell and we need to escape earth prison and escape the body prison and our souls are kind of condemned here you know like all of this is such ancient deep conditioning of human unbelonging which is the antithesis from natural law if you don't believe you're part of nature in the first place yep yes is the answer to that yeah no it's funny though because what that whole premise if if like i said before if if you come with it the natural law is all about uh nothing everything's an offer and nothing happens without an agreement of some kind whether you're aware of it or not for an analogy of that is like you agree that you're a ward of the state everyone's like no i'm not it's like yeah but you you signed for an id a license benefits of some kind or whatever so yes you did were you given full disclosure in that no so is it a valid contract no but there's an agreement there so until you supersede that agreement with a more powerful or a higher one it's it exists as a default agreement yeah so in that if you come in whether or not it's true but you form the belief based on your agreement that you're born into sin or you're born into middle earth uh soul trap or you're like whatever if you form the agreement because you don't have to that's the thing if you form the agreement that you are in some way indebted you will live your life that way and express that way into the world and everything that you do touch and feel will be an expression of that of debt and this is a debt-based realm according to the offer but it's not really it's not really and if you have that then the inverse is also true because most of what we're looking at in the truth world and there is value to truth but i was gonna i was gonna ask you that maybe in a minute i'll ask you guys that because you know the podcast here for the truth right and we'll just talk about truth is at the beginning of the podcast but truth in itself is something that i'm heavily invested in as well but there's a difference between truth and being a truther they're two different things but we can get to that but the point is is that most of us are indebted in this world and it's a debt-based system everything in the system is debt-based so that's like the offer but it's an inversion because everything in the world that is not truth is inversion so we could go through a thousand different ways that everything is inverted in what we're given through the lens of that mirror it's inversions it's mirror image yep so how would you how would you describe it for example i was born into jehovah's witness ideology i never consciously agreed to that maybe we can talk past life past life agreements potentially whatever but like how would you describe that if i didn't like consciously agree to that and just to kind of answer your points like i lived my life under that agreement for probably 25 years and i specifically in order to break that conditioning remember making super intentional revocations to kind of dislodge this agreement and dislodge this identity which was kind of you know i felt was watching over me kind of 24 7 and so there was an intentional breaking of that agreement but yeah how would you kind of describe agreements in that sense when you're kind of born into ideology or born into certain you know ideas sure well so my understanding is that the birth process is like the end end and extension of something that happened well before that so when we talk about say the soul having its soul experience through the physical and through a body in this lifetime where the body dies but the soul lives on then there is an agreement or a contract in place in order to come and have this experience so therefore the soul whatever whatever the soul needs beyond the ego construct that we step into as we that we experience the world through it needs that in some way it's like i need that experience because that experience is going to as you mentioned earlier joel it's going to allow me to find that treasure whereas without it i'm not going to be able to have that and it could take two years it could take 25 or 30 years yeah before you have enough experience to work through to reconnect to that place where it's like i've got a question this now i need to ask deeper questions because the it's not the act of the question it's not being a jehovah's witness or a catholic or a satanist or whatever those are just like that's like the end end expression that you can see touch feel or label but where does that come from is the question so the more you ask the question it's not about that it's what that leads you to and getting back to where that comes from so now that's freeing like without that how do you know who you are yeah like without without black how do you know what white is for example like in this world of duality we do need reference points until we start to get to that point that we connect to the part that can discern through just feeling and being yeah but until that we need the experiences we need to touch stuff that's hot we need to indoctrinate it in ways so that we know what not indoctrinated is to connect to that place where it comes from yeah exactly exactly like i mentioned earlier you know the fury of knowledge is knowledge is built through conjecture and criticism like you ask questions then you critique whether they're true or not then you move on you know which is kind of exactly what you're describing um how does like it would an example of this kind of agreement and offer based kind of system be like you know within friendships when you sense that you know there's an inauthenticity or a toxicity or maybe a friend is being passive or gaslighting or whatever then you don't speak up you're kind of consensing and agreeing to that in in your silence towards that as well and you're saying this is what i'm worth this is the kind of friendship that you know is acceptable to me yeah absolutely so there's there's three principles there so the first one you hit on is in if i'm born into a certain religious family that's not my choice so there's consent which is conscious decision to agree like you're aware of it you're aware that this is a construct that you will agree to that's that's consent then you have assent and assents an unconscious decision to agree so consent assent assent is where you're not really sure you're not consciously aware but it's still there but most people are aware most of what we are is unconscious the conscious is a smaller part of what it is that makes up our existence so then there's silence and silence is is a form of acquiescence which means like you just agree by default so it's pretty simple like if you have nothing to say because you don't know who you are well under natural law something or someone else can speak for you now that doesn't mean you can speak up speak back and supersede that because you can but in the first place if you're not willing to speak because you have nothing to say why would you think you can complain about being told what to do or somebody else speaking for you because under natural law what's going to happen is one of two things one you're going to form a identity as a victim you have victim consciousness the world is hard it's terrible this happens to me everybody else is a tyrant i'm a victim that's the enemy so how is life going to be for somebody with that level of victim consciousness it's obviously not going to be good everything is going to be oppression and a denser darker deeper energy however if you're like okay my life my life kind of sucks but i must have created it somehow and you're like all right maybe i just haven't been speaking up why because i'm too scared all right well today i'm going to make the choice it's like no matter what what's worse this life that i'm currently experiencing or like overcoming this fear of actually saying something because what's going to happen somebody's going to call me an idiot or a conspiracy theorist or whatever it's like so what what's worse doing that or living the life that you're living so people generally on a conscious level this is a simplistic version of it but on a conscious level will then step into making that conscious choice and say no i will say this so instead of being told that you can't go to work or you have to go here or you have to go there or whatever it's like actually no that's that's not that doesn't fit for me i don't consent to that i don't agree to that and i'm actually going to do this and now you start writing a narrative now that can go one of a thousand different ways but at the end of the day that means that nobody's speaking for you now you're beginning to speak for yourself but until you do that you really can't complain because under natural law that's your agreement yep you've got nothing to say someone else can speak for you yeah in in in an esoteric sense what does the spoken word or the voice kind of represents uh yeah so it's a it's a resonance so everything if you if you just want to break everything down to like matter and energy and whatever and its vibrational form your voice or your word your spoken word how it comes across carries a resonance so you could speak anything this is the difference between somebody who will parrot what they've heard before and it sounds good because it's a good quote and somebody who's speaking from a part of their being that lives that experience the words are exactly the same ai could spit it out for you through the computer but as it comes out of ai on the computer versus somebody the resonance that they project through the spoken word it changes matter because it has an inherent value to it it has substance so case in point again going back to the mirror analogy you could watch something speaking from a mirror but it carries no resonance nothing comes out of that whereas the speaking into the mirror carries a resonance only one of those carries an actual resonance which means it's imbued with an inherent value so the one i like to give people is gold so gold is in the private gold is made by god or nature so gold has inherent value not just because we trade it and we have fixed like a usd backing value to it but because it's inherently valuable it carries the resonance of the sun for example that's what its resident counterpart is yeah and it has natural scarcity it's hard to find etc yeah yeah not as much it's kind of like oil it's not as much as we're told but yes i know i know i know it's not but like that's generally why it has value as well relative yeah relative yes but it's more than that because gold carries an inherent frequency where if you work with it if you uh do like actual alchemical work with it if you adorn yourself with garments made from gold if you use monoatomic gold in drinking water or if you place 24 karat gold in water it improves the frequency it raises the frequency of the water or your being because it has an innate frequency that's high that's delivered by god or nature now what we do is we trade fictional reserve currency which is a plastic note so if you put that plastic note in or on your body or in your drinking water would it improve or uh not improve your body or the drinking water so obviously it would destruct it would make it worse dirtier less of a structure less vibrationally effective so that's that's the analogy is that the what carries an innate resonance carries true value that can be felt heard experienced and will can measurably raise the frequency of something else but like parroting something or ai doing it or the analogy being the uh the bank note that's put in water will not do that it could even devalue it so that's that's the difference so the spoken word is if it's coming from that place that's more like god working through you or it's coming it's representing nature or it carries inherent value in its frequency and transmission that's the value because it creates matter it can change matter if it can change the the structure of water because it raises the frequency it's changing matter so that's the value that's why in the bible it says in the beginning was the word then to have word what else do you need you need breath so god breathed life into the world so to speak so it's it the breath and the word carries such value in it and how many people use that to like we're given that as a gift how many people use it wisely yeah yeah man totally like i i see my word as like a weapon and a shield as well you know it's like word word is an anagram words is an anagram for sword like the word and there's a expression the pen is mightier than the sword so it just gives it gives a it should give a clue as to how powerful that is and like you said jolly it is a sword and it is a shield like no is one of the most valuable words in existence like hey i'm going to come and do stuff to your family no yeah like that no is powerful that no sets a boundary not just energetically but physically as well like no sets boundaries no i'm not gonna spend five hours on facebook this afternoon because i could spend it with my family like no is a boundary or somebody wanting to do something or take something from you know is a boundary not just energetically but physically that's your shield so that's and then you have your sword like you can use words wisely this is when you use natural law principles in say commerce for example it can be used as a sword you can dismantle constructs with your word you can or your pen you can also um inflict damage or harm uh if it's in an honorable way with your word or your pen financially physically or any other means just through that that's why the expression the pen is mightier than the sword because like you said joel it has that capacity yeah like when i openly speak and share my authentic values desires what i do stand for what i don't stand for like etc then it's like i'm signaling to the world like who i am my values and as a result of that i'm signaling to the wider community like determining who's going to be drawn to me who's going to be repelled to me what kind of world i'm building simply in the making that known and making that public and speaking that forth you know yep and if you do it you know authentically you end up with the wrong audience which happened to me as well like not so i gotta rephrase that some of the audience that i attracted was uh just out to get and and i attracted that that's not them that's nobody else's fault that's mine you know what i mean like all the things that i've created in life that were let's say negative i would call or not not what i would consciously want i know i created so then instead of blaming others and seeing enemies and other people i wind it back around i go right so how did i give rise to that occasion what was my agreement because there was an agreement on some level and if i know that i can't be disempowered i can't be a victim i look for how i create so i can then step up and create uh in a better way yeah man that's proper responsibility right there we we posted a quote today from a podcast guest we had last week and in the episode she said i think you have to be radically accountable it's a hack that i figured out early when you assume that everything's your fault you can look at it and then accept it and integrate it back into yourself as something beautiful you know um yeah it is interesting it's like it's just more empowering to look at things in that manner for sure and that's a choice right everybody has the ability to make that choice everybody can choose to be accountable and see it that way everybody can choose to go okay i'm gonna say this is my responsibility not somebody else's but how many people do that that's what i mean that's why this world when people think that this world is oppressive and the government this and enemies that and bill gates that and you will order whatever it's like no no nobody's taking away your ability to get up and watch the sunrise no one no one's taking away your ability to choose what food you have now yes you might live in an area that it's harder to get higher quality food but no one's making you stay there either so the circumstances we find ourselves are the circumstances we find ourselves in play the cards you're dealt that's fine but you're not a victim just because you didn't get dealt these ones or that one these are yours and they're a gift so play them or make them better ones find better ones create better ones but until you're willing to make that decision you're going to be a victim and life will suck there will be people who rule over you like these hold the government's out to get us government as you guys know this news about mind control a weak mind will be controlled it's just an offer if you strengthen your mind it will not be controlled think for yourself or other people will think for you it's a default agreement under natural law it's fair like how is it how is it not fair like something weak in nature inherently shrivels and dies and gets fungus on it and returns to the earth to renew it's more valuable as it's broken down bits of carbon than it was that's life saying that that was not living its purpose basically so like why why let yourself do that because we all have the ability to make that choice like take more responsibility if you can even if it's wrong like even if that's hippie airy fairy bullshit that we create our reality it's like okay well if you have that mindset is that even if it's wrong is that not better are you not gonna feel better and create more as a result so forget whether it's right or wrong like look at your life and look at the results you want to have and it's very plain and simple and it's your choice like everyone has the choice what the fuck's the alternative you have no power you can't do anything in your life you know like i'd rather just be like fuck it let me take responsibility for everything like no matter what what what do you think of the statement that everyone gets what they deserve oh uh i mean it's generalizing in my my answer will be a generalization but i'd say yeah i'd say we get what we create i think i think we get what we need more than what we deserve i kind of rephrase it because like i might need to be broke for three years to figure out who i really am to figure out what value is to figure out how i can best serve my role here as opposed to like being not quite broke but like i don't really have the nicest car but i've got a car it kind of sucks and i'm like oh poor me poor me but i never get to the point where i find what i really need so i think we get what we need yeah we always get the medicine we need yeah yeah for sure yeah man i mean speaking to what you were talking about before it's like this is why big emphasis of our work is self-esteem because like your inner worth is going to be reflected in in your outer worth and for example you'd be going to be content with a shitty environment you're going to be content with like crappy inputs depending on the quality of that relationship that you have with yourself but as you nurture that as you build that as you build your capacity for truth you know within then you recognize what your worth is externally and that's just that's the simple key it's a reality creation is what are you what are you creating within what are you cultivating within because that's really going to determine that the world that you create and the world that you call in external to you oh yeah absolutely i think that there's it's funny because there's so many like inversions and spells wrapped up in in a lot of like even what i talk about daily on some i post daily but just generally what i share it's like there's so much subtlety in it there's i've got to be careful and i've got to be careful with things or at least give room for more discussion on it because like if we i think what we have to have is acceptance like if we're in a bad place i don't know if it being content with it is is the i would express it that way because if we're content with it it kind of shows we don't need or want or deserve more but accepting it i would say is is highly key because until there's acceptance you can't remove blame and victimhood you just come back to yourself and and where it comes from but i think we should always really want like content being content i think is a really subtle thing because um there could be i'll just give a personal example okay before i just say something that doesn't make sense to anybody as you get more close to like what your story really is or writing that story for yourself and you're you're deconditioning everything else it might actually require you might actually come to the realization not from an egoic point of view but from a humility point of view that you're actually destined for more to have more and that might be like external wealth but it's not chasing stuff for validation it's not changing stuff for egoic chasing stuff for egoic reasons it's like if that's what i'm meant to have why would i be blocking it and to the point what that might mean is i am very content because i've been homeless three times i've lived without money for more than 12 months straight as an experiment i've gone without a lot of things like your asthma also shared the story with you and sophie i was like i was such a um a righteous man that instead of at the farmer's market paying on an f postcard where the bank would take 30 cents for the transaction i would walk two kilometers to the atm where it was a fee-free atm and then walk two kilometers back now that's a lot of energy and time to use that i could have spent being of more value and service to the world it was entirely righteous and selfish to do that but i thought i was changing the world and i wasn't so i was regressing regressing regressing into entropy whereas what i'm at now and i don't pretend that i'm right and i know everything i'm just saying that on my arc of my journey i've been in that place where i was content and i and it was not a belief i was content living in a tent that i stuck on council property on the top of magic mountain at knobby's beach on the gold coast according to me i had a million dollar view according to me i was out of the system according to me i was content according to me i was doing the right thing everyone else live in a capitalist life and whatever he's a slave and an idiot and that was my life and was i actually content yes but when i realized i was not meeting life when i realized that i was not using my word my voice my skills my abilities for anything at all i realized that i wasn't content but i'm content without money i'm content without cars i didn't have a car for 10 years i don't need a lamborghini i don't need a car in the first place i was content walking and skating i enjoyed it immensely it was immensely valuable to me but then what was i giving to the world nothing like absolutely zero i thought maybe i'd be a good example to others for living without money and sticking a tent on the hill and living in that because look i'm proving you can do it but at the end of the day that's not valuable to people so in order to step into who you are that may require or may naturally not from your own like i'm going to charge a million dollars for a consult with somebody it's like naturally that could accrue wealth and to eschew that could be slapping god in the face and you're not able to deliver your value to the world if that's in your blueprint or story which is subtle that could take an hour to explain but does that make some sense yeah it does make some sense the word the word con in spanish means with so you were with a tent so you were literally content exactly yeah nah i hear you man i hear you it's crazy these ideas that we get of morality you know i think that's a big part of it is like so many of us it's a big part of what rise above the herd is like we just have these skewed ideas of morality that morality is altruism that morality means to be poor to live with less to kind of you know not acquire not accrue not exert yourself you know to love thy neighbor at all costs even when your neighbor hates you it's you know it's interesting so what okay so that's a good topic because this comes up this is kind of at the forefront of people's awareness at the moment how do you how do you define morality or if you don't define morality because it's a personal thing what would you usually share with people as a way to like help find what's moral like moral compass yeah totally well i think a big part of the deconditioning process that you know in my personal belief people need to begin with when it comes to redefining morality is looking to nature you know like the sunflower doesn't second guess its own survival it doesn't second guess should i turn towards the sun today to get that light should i dig my roots deeper into fertile ground to get you know richer soil um you know yet human beings with our volitional consciousness we're the only natural entity that has this choice to kind of act against our own interest our own survival which to me is anti-life and so i define morality as that which is anti-life and this doesn't mean to like just feed yourself and accrue at all costs and accrue beyond whatever etc etc etc but i don't believe morality exists without you being first and foremost concerned with your own self-interest in that sense because like i mentioned before without the survival of the organism no other values are possible so i think to be moral in the way that it's probably triggering is to be first and foremost interested in yourself yeah i'd agree because otherwise how can you know if you don't know who you are and like what you meant to do how can you properly be of service to others anyway or know what morality is yeah how can it be moral to decide that i'm just going to wither and die i'm never going to create i'm never going to build and just whatever i have now can be like seeped away to like everyone else around me and i become just this altruistic slop and i can call myself moral you know well i think an example of that too is like um imagine to the degree to which somebody doesn't know themselves to make the fundamental error of thinking that there's more than just man or woman and i'm an ape mangina unicorny furry thing and therefore i'll go in that bathroom and you can you have to call me this and we're like that's a fundamental misunderstanding or not knowing of who you are so therefore how do you know morality so therefore in that state moral is you should cut that off and you should be um you should be funded to do that and celebrated for doing that that's moral but that's what you'll say and believe if you don't know who you are in the first place because you've missed the first step so that's why like i think we're all on the same page of that is like knowing who you are is a fundamental to morality because without that like what's your moral compass how could you possibly know what's right wrong just in just moral immoral if you don't know who you are it's like it's fanciful navel gazing at best like how how could you possibly know and how do you even like if you can't even feel in your right mind that you're a man if you're a man with a penis in it like whatever else it's like how are you going to feel what's right and wrong i just don't i don't understand how like i understand how people could think but when you're disconnected from what and who you really are and therefore from nature so i just don't believe morality even enters the equation it can't where's the compass for that so and i also don't believe that i know what morality is or isn't like i can generalize i could say don't punch someone in the face for no reason but not punching somebody in the face isn't necessarily moral because what if they're attacking you and you have to defend yourself or somebody else like some people need a punch in the nose and it's it's a loving thing to do because it snaps them out of their delirium and it protects it's for protection it's to protect something more innocent or beautiful so i would never say don't punch someone in the face but i would also say uh punching somebody in the face as a default mechanism is not a moral thing to do so same as taking a life same as uh you know uh like any of the you know deadly sins or 10 commandments that you would break so i don't know what do you guys think about that in terms of it's such a big thing in in society at the moment is this idea of morality and whatever because there's this comeback of christianity and turning to jesus and god and morals and all that sort of thing but it's like to me there's a big inversion in there but at the same time it's it's in people's consciousness at the moment so what do you think about the whole compass of morality well i align with a lot of what you both are saying um and while you were talking tom it just made me think about punching people in the face nice yeah it made me think of you know the four agreements by whatever mcdonnell miguel ruiz whatever his name is you know there's elements of that that i like but there's something that always used to like like rub me the wrong way i don't agree with is like they don't take things personally and i just feel like someone deserves a fucking punch in the face like it might be the appropriate response is to give them a fucking punch in the face so that would you mean do you mean metaphorically or are you talking physically or do you mean like like you know uh because you can do that metaphorically right like somebody's saying something about you just like listen dickhead and you just give it back or do you mean like well i mean i mean both because sometimes one could be in self-defense you know like if someone were saying something about to attack you the appropriate thing was would be to defend yourself and that might be a punch in the face or let's say someone was was going to you know hurt my wife you know like i'm gonna take that personally if someone's going to attack my wife and so that might end the appropriate response might end in me you know doing a rear naked choke hold and choking this person out you know what i mean so i'm just curious like what your thoughts are in regards to that in terms of like the appropriate response to a certain situation that may include violence and even in relationship to like the four agreements or anything similar to that about like oh don't take it personally but it's like what's wrong with taking something personally you know maybe in some instances it's not so i'm i'd love to hear you yeah yeah well i just from a natural law perspective i'll just give you this so first of all like people are just hurling insults at you it's usually all about them it's not actually about you so i think taking it personally in that not taking it personally in that respect is is true because i agree it probably is more about them they're having a shit day they're externalizing everything they're projecting onto you and if you know who you are and you know yourself yeah you don't need to respond so in natural law for example there's uh a principle of you have nothing to defend and nothing to explain so somebody's like oh you're asimov you're a shill and joel you're a freemason i know this because i read it on facebook and you're a freemason and i know it it's like okay whatever as soon as you start going no i'm not no i grew up in here and i did like you're defending it's weak you don't need to if it's a weak offer if it's below your standing you have nothing to defend and nothing to explain okay so that's a that's a principle of natural law it's all about standing which is to do with frequency and resonance so then beyond that let's say you're in a an altercation experience where somebody might be about to attack your family there's a there's another principle here of how well do you know yourself because if if you don't know yourself well you're going to misperceive what's going on and you're going to act in a way that you see fit but does not fit the actual uh so in like law enforcement security it's the fourth continuum so meet force with force so somebody's coming at you with a drunken slur and they're clearly like inebriated don't pull a weapon on them and incapacitate them when they're incapacitated right so similar thing if you're feeling things out and you know within yourself you're calm you know who you are they're not really a threat you won't punch them in the face you might put them in a wrist lock or a choke because you're not really going to hurt them but you're just sending a message if they haven't got it already you're crossing a line don't cross it you will get hurt whereas if you don't know who you are you lash out you hurt them badly you haven't given them that offer first you haven't you haven't met where they're at to give them the offer like listen you're out of line i would turn around and go the other way okay for your own best interest leave us alone we don't want to engage with you go away assuming you don't have the ability to just do that without even engaging with them there's so many different levels to that where the degree to which you know who you are will mean that you will act in a moral manner whatever you do even if it's punching in the face it will have met the moment but it takes a real sense of self and a resolve and a calmness and a trusting in life to be able to do that because most people like what did you see during the last few years people just like madly screaming at the world into the sky no we're not doing this it's not that it's like nothing's happening to you don't have to do this stuff but you think you do because you don't know who you therefore your reaction your expression to the world is like way out of alignment with what's actually being presented to you because you can't read that because you don't know who you are so that would just be an analogy for what you were saying but is there a place to like you know like not take things personally or to take things personally yes if there's a personal assault that's directed at you a quick example of that and we can move on is that people thought that they had to respond to the quote-unquote government when there were these you know the offer of taking a jab in say 2021 it's like and i didn't write anything to the government why because nothing was directed personally to me there's all this conjecture about the public or everyone or everyone was like i'm not everyone yeah yeah i was my own lie so why would i fall into the trap of sending a notice or something to the government i don't consent to getting a this or that or a medical procedure it's like that's not necessary that's not part of the equation that question was never asked i'm not answering a question that was never asked however if there was like a court document sent personally to my name then i would respond to it and respond in kind not like you do this and i'll slit your throat or it's like no i'm just going to say no you've addressed it to my name i will respond for my name the answer is no thank you very much see you later do you know what i mean it's like people were just trying to like blanket do stuff because they didn't read what was going because they don't know and that's fine by the way that's that's the natural progression like we're talking about earlier like how do you know that you don't know that you've you've agreed to these uh binds to the state you don't know that so it's not conscious yet it's unconscious but it still plays out under natural law it's still the same the agreements are there well i mean that was even in their own written law itself you know you and i had a discussion but back then i self-defended myself three times with these fines that were issued to me personally and the way that i defeated those was because the law itself said that the public health order had to be issued to me personally with my name on it and i never received anything from any biomedical officer with my name on it and that was my defense every single time you know and it worked yeah absolutely because that's seeing it for what it is so you're actually meeting the offer where it is you're not going on these like no the queen says this and she wears this size underpants therefore i don't have to do whatever it's like it's ridiculous stuff that doesn't mean anything and showing that you're trying to defend something that doesn't need to be defended so that i remember when we had that chat it's like that was without even probably really knowing like a lot of the law it's just like it's just the thing that matters like where's the substance that was the substance and that's why you got a result as well but i remember we had i remember chatting to you about that it wasn't just that like that's the knowledge that came as a result of you knowing who you are like this isn't right but this this is but you'll come about it too that's the thing you know it's like all that matters that's the that's the real resonance so even then when you go and defend yourself what does the word carry yeah is it a disempowered quivering thing that it doesn't matter what you say about the public health order then you are showing your your resonance creates like weak matter yeah yours it yours yours carried a strong materialized into something strong and therefore that's the result that you yeah oh totally man it's it's the end result of you know self-esteem in my point of view but like without the self-esteem there is no result there is no discovering that there is no deciding to rock up without a lawyer etc etc etc you're right it's just the it's just the end result yeah powerful though yeah totally man dude we're kind of wrapping up coming close to this 90-minute conversation here i know you've launched the humble kingdom do you kind of want to speak into a little bit of kind of what what that is um and what you're kind of building here yeah sure it's just so basically i learned over time so when i when 2020 and 2021 rolled around i was kind of like so many people were asking me to run workshops and speak about certain topics and i gave what i could at the time but i always knew that it was like it didn't have a fundamental basis it's kind of like the martial arts analogy of throwing people in the ring without any training and they're asking on the fly how do i defend a kick how do i get out of a choke it's like even if you give them the answer like one wrong move or they're in the next situation they don't know then what do i do now it's like it doesn't really help at the end of the day so the humble kingdom was born just because like i experienced all of that and i realized what wasn't really helping people like where people just aren't getting the fundamentals so i've created a basics a beginner's guide to natural law course which is literally about knowing myself so as you get to do that you get to figure out like what we've been speaking about like what really matters what really do you have to even handle uh in that respect and then how do you do that effectively because that's all based on the the premise of knowing who you are yeah and then just getting the fundamentals right so that as you progress through life you could choose if you want to you know uh if you're interested in the the legality side of things which i'm not you're in a far better place to do that if you want to understand health more and your body more those are the building blocks to be able to do that and and anything really so that's my current um you know work is to just help people find these basics that seem to be missing and um very similar to what you guys do actually it's just like we all call it something different yeah so the principles of natural law are very similar to the principles of knowing who you are which is very similar to the principles of rising above the herd which is very similar to a lot of things that are already out there but it's like why are you drawn to that and how do you express that so i'm just trying to keep it real simple for people and given what i've found experientially for myself and others have actually given tangible results in the world and then from there i'll create a lot more but at the moment it's just this beginner's guide because without that all i can see is people falling into the same traps again that's why i wanted to get out of that truther kind of stuff i love it bro yeah absolutely man i think that is it absolutely it did so good also oh yeah go go well i was gonna just say like uh i can't wait to hang out again in uh what a little less than two months like we're all gonna be uh at confluence which is an amazing event that's uh outside of san antonio and texas and bandera texas that our friend alex zack uh molly chef molly and others um are putting together um yeah totally let's give lindsey are also um you know creating that and so yeah i just can't wait for that event it's the third time i'll be there and i know tom you're a speaker there joel you're gonna be performing your album there and i know joel and i are gonna be creating uh are gonna be giving a workshop there as well yeah totally um if anyone's interested in that they can head to confluence event.com they can use the code hf uh tt10 to kind of get a little discount there as well and we'll put all that in the show note um but yeah that'll be awesome man i can't believe you met your ass once before me i mean sorry i don't know how i met you before me all right i'm looking forward to that too it'd be awesome yeah it's a great event good people um and again in person there's just something different than just being on a screen connecting definitely tom where can people access humble kingdom yeah the website's the humble kingdom.com and my socials are uh tombarnett.tv on instagram and telegram and yeah just my name on uh facebook so yeah i put a lot of clips out on social media as well that are all in relation to what we've been talking about but the course is at the humble kingdom.com and is that as i complete that course out for people i'll have a lot more resources there too that people can um tap into natural law and on different levels so yeah it's exciting amazing bro that concludes round three looking forward to number four eventually at some point in time thank you so much as always man and everyone else thank you for listening