Michael Tsarion & David Whitehead Truth Against the World

Joel 00:00:02.080 - 00:00:39.850 All right, everybody, welcome to episode 300 of Here for the Truth. This is definitely a momentous occasion in the journey of Here for the Truth, something we started May 17, 2021. And this conversation, this journey, this podcast, it wouldn't exist. With the two gentlemen with us now, joining us for the first time together, David Whitehead and Michael Tasserian. Together they combine for 17 previous episodes of Here for the Truth. And it's just an absolute pleasure to have them here together for this 300th episode. So welcome to you both. David 00:00:41.610 - 00:00:50.010 Well, thanks for having us, guys. Congrats on the 300 episodes, and so happy you've been a part of this epic project that you guys have created, and happy to be here. Joel 00:00:51.540 - 00:01:18.610 Thanks, man. One way I wanted to kick off this conversation is obviously you guys have a podcast together called Unslaved. And so I wanted each of you, and I might start with Michael, to define what unslaved means to you as a constitution of being and how and if that has evolved, I guess, since coining the term and bringing it to the forefront. Michael 00:01:19.730 - 00:03:08.890 Hi. Well, geez. Yeah, it's a project that actually started in 16, 2016. But it would also be wrong to say that it started there, because the motive has been, from the very beginning of my career, hasn't changed. And look, fortunately, even till today, when we're speaking, it hasn't really changed. The idea was to synthesize a lot of subjects together, but make sure that we're honoring the great minds of the past. People who were apex thinkers, you know, but who, just because of the course of the movement of time, they've been thrown to the side out of the limelight, either because they themselves didn't crave limelight, or again, because of other figures getting more attention. And this has been. There's actually more of these names than you can possibly imagine. But to me, their contribution is second to none. So how to do justice? You know, just think of one towering name, Emmanuel Velikovsky. You know, just one. I mean, how can you possibly be talking about people like, as eminent as Sig. Sigmund Freud, okay? And people like that, or even Darwin. The great, great towering figures, Karl Marx, you know, but not Emmanuel Vesi. So this is what I think motivated me, and believe you me, that's just one name out of many that I could mention. So the way to do it was simple. Do some bloody podcasts and get their work out there. And that was. That was. That's pretty much the, you know, the number one sort of modus operandi for Me? David 00:03:08.890 - 00:03:09.210 Really? Joel 00:03:09.370 - 00:03:15.450 Yeah. And what. What does unslaved mean to you as like a mindset or like a state of being? As a state of being, yeah. Michael 00:03:16.890 - 00:04:18.970 Well, as a state of being, it is something that wants to do justice to this knowledge while at the same time remembering how little we know. Right. So. But to answer your question more concretely is to realize that the reason why most of us don't know shit is because of a hidden hand of control. It's not just by accident that we find the schools and the colleges and universities in the grip of some very, very demonic people. It's not just, you know, by accident that the television, you know, is slanted and biased and the media and all of that. There is other reasons. And so Enslaved means that the pursuit of knowledge must go hand in hand with a kind of. The term I've used for many, many decades now is psychic immunity. We all know about physical immunity is absolutely crucial. Well, it's the same thing with the psyche, because if you don't have that kind of immunity, you'll never make it. Joel 00:04:19.499 - 00:04:19.819 Yeah. Michael 00:04:20.379 - 00:05:14.480 Your mind will be so infested with sludge, which is what the most of the normies, that's the state they find themselves in, that you just won't be able to proceed. Even though you may have a deep passion for knowledge, if you don't have this other filter to enslave yourself from the chains of the lie. You know, the lie that you may have been, has been forced upon you, no doubt. But it's also something that you are tend to become accustomed to. You just don't see it anymore. So there's that as well. There's a bivalent movement between the quest for knowledge, which I think a lot of people have, but this other, more elusive concept of being able to filter out the inundation of falsity and lies and. And this is not just going to come in from the mainstream. It's actually going to come in even from the alternative movement as we've seen in recent years. Joel 00:05:15.020 - 00:05:15.420 Yep. Michael 00:05:15.420 - 00:05:23.660 It'll even come in much closer to home. Yeah, there's no end of bullshit even within alternative subjects. So this applies across the board. Joel 00:05:24.060 - 00:05:32.620 Definitely. And I want to tap deeper into that in a little bit, but I'll pass it over to you. David. Any personal commentary on Enslaved as a concept? David 00:05:33.980 - 00:09:02.120 Well, Michael nailed it. And I just want to point it out to everybody. Michael had the. The URL, the website, the idea, the concept already well honed. Before I came along, I was just a guy coming along that was inspired By Michael's work, his books, and the way he spoke about two very important concepts that totally changed everything for me before we even started the podcast. That's what inspired me to even do it was the idea of zero tolerance for the lie. Understanding how sacred and, and important the truth is. Learning that the truth is not something that most people really want to digest. It's only for the few. So it's not something that's going to be groups and collectives and all this kind of stuff. It's going to be an individuated path. And the other thing was truth against the world. I guess that kind of rolls it in, is that no matter what the world does, no matter what the society around you is doing, running around in the chaos that, as he's saying, largely is, is being guided by these hidden hands. There's also, there's this part of us that wants to be guided by the hidden hand and wants to run away from the truth because the comforting lies are just so goddamn comforting. Right? And so I was refreshed when I came across Michael's perspective on this and when he was talking. We, we had been doing some interviews back before we started officially on Slave. We did a lot of stuff on my YouTube channel or, you know, we did a few of these, like little events and things like that. And just hearing the basic philosophy and the fact that we. What Michael was doing was not just coming and saying, I have all the answers, I have all the truth. He was trying to point everybody's attention to the great minds of the people that had at least the better theories that nobody ever heard of, and at least getting people on the. On the path towards it. So for me, it's about sovereignty. Psychologically, spiritually, emotionally, it's about all those concepts and it's about the pursuit of it, the pursuit of truth, the pursuit of knowledge and understanding with the understanding that you might not have it all. You got to look at things. The one thing I've always really loved about what we've done on Unslaved is that we look at things from different angles. We don't just take one side of everything. I'm sure both Michael and I, like everybody listening. We have our own way of seeing the world. We have our own favorites. We have our own favorite theories and ideas and thinkers, and we have those biases. But this process of being open minded in the pursuit of truth, you know, not so much that your brain falls out, but, you know, being open minded to say, hey, let's look at someone from the other side, like, we did some stuff on guys like Adler and things like that in psychology who come from sort of a Marxist perspective, but still brought an absolutely incredible insight to the world of psychology that otherwise would be overlooked. So what Michael was a technician at was taking the wrapping off everything and just getting to the guts of it, looking it under the hood, turning it around. And I just went, hey, can I join this? Can I be a part of this in some way? Can I help facilitate this? And I. I just felt that at the time, in 2016, with all the shadow banning, all the censorship, all the hell that I knew Michael had been through, doing public tours, doing video, you know, getting screwed over by different people, I went, well, can we just get something going that would be a public platform that could allow us to do better quality investigations and get some, you know, get something going. And. And that is what we've. I've been striving to build and perfect over this time. And to me, it's just an honor to be along for the ride. Yerasimos 00:09:02.920 - 00:10:27.960 Yeah, it's just pretty amazing because, you know, it's been over a decade since I came across your work, Michael and David as well. And I love hearing a little bit of the origin story, this tiny parallel, too. When I connected with Joel, I mean, Joel saw Sophie and me on unslaved back in 2020, but he saw it, I think, early 2021, and he hit me up on Instagram and we connected. And I said, like, you know, I've always wanted to start a podcast. He's like, I always want to start a podcast. I'm like, I have an idea for the name. And I said the Truth first. But then he said, I have a blog I already purchased called Here for the Truth. And I went, I like yours better, because it aligns, too, with what you said. Like, it's like, we don't have all the answers. We're here for it. We're here to go down the rabbit holes, to explore, to synthesize, to not throw the baby out with the bathwater, which I'm seeing way too much, even more so in a polarized world. Whereas, like, you can have a thinker who, you know, may come across in certain areas, but then in some areas, they give you some gold. And so. So why not take that into your life and integrate it? So, yeah, it's been. It's been awesome just to. To witness the journey, and then the way you guys and your work and enslaved, you know, transformed my life and, you know, going through and watching those Episodes, the diversity of information, the diversity of guests. You know, even introducing Sophie to Unslaved, you know, all the psychological episodes you had, your love of Somatics. I mean, it's really important work and I'm just super grateful. And I can't say it enough, and I'll continue to say it. We stand on the shoulders of giants, and you guys are giants. Michael 00:10:31.000 - 00:10:32.840 Thank you, man. Thank you. Appreciate it. Joel 00:10:34.380 - 00:11:19.530 Yeah, I remember even when we first launched Here for the Truth, because prior to that I was already in Michael's Terrascopes Mystery School and I did my own personal year reading for that year. And it was a personal year 11 according to Terrascopes. And we ended up having the conversation on Unslaved about it. And the year 11 is all about, you know, these synchronous moments where seeds planted in that year become long term fruit that, you know, feeds and yields for an extended period of time. And it's definitely turned out to be true. So I'm wondering, like, with the formation of Unslaved, when you two like came together or Michael first received that idea from David, like, was there a feeling at that time where like, yeah, this is a project that's going to stand the test of time and it's going to be something we're in for the long haul? Michael 00:11:22.010 - 00:16:55.260 Oh, yeah, definitely. It was a way to go, various reasons so long ago I can hardly remember the original idea, but I think that to bring something together, the challenge was to not have commercials, to not have noise and a lot of interruption. If you remember that in the years prior to Enslaved, I was the first one to do multi length programs. David Ike would do them on stage, very extensive programs. That is true. But when it came to actual media in the form of DVD or programs, I was the first to do more in excess of two and a half hours or three hours, sometimes up to four to six hours programs, you know, and this was then something that we didn't want to stop. The challenge was stop it, stop it. Go back to sound bites. Everybody's getting more fame and everybody's doing things. You know, your Chris Everards and this guy and that guy, they're all, it's sharp and you know, these Alex Joneses and stuff. And I just realized that, no, that's not for me. So either you bow out completely, this formula is not going to work, or you stick to your guns and do the long form without commercial interruption, without a lot of chat, without a lot of previewing, you know, and glad handing to the audience without a Lot of digression. Certainly without a lot of disclaimers and all of these other rhetorical faux pas that creep in, that waste a lot of time, you know, loud music, even some of it, when that is going on, when you're actually trying to deliver the talk, there's this symphony going on in the background which became a habit. All these different things that people really may not notice when it comes to production. Yeah, all down like a sort of a three piece rock and roll band. You know, it's like, come on, let's get rid of all of the, the orchestras and things like that. And just, you know, there's other people who do that real well. Let them go ahead with all the flashy psychedelic stuff in the background. And, oh, it just was just noise and interruption. And then what, what happens with that is that a very great benefit comes when you slow the way fuck down, right? And that is you can follow an argument through from its inception to its middle point and then to its conclusion without interruption. And this then is going to already sort of circumvent a lot of a person's thinking and attention because our thinking and attention in the world has become not only left brain, that's a cliche, but it's left brain. Plus it's left brain with all of this editing, this constant sound biting. So you can actually manually, you know, it's like beads just running around on the table all over the place with no thread. But when you apply that thread, you make a necklace. And then you can stand back and go, wow, what's that? So it's the same thing with argument. And this has two, two benefits. One, the speaker gets to hear himself, his own ideas, which he can then edit and censor in the proper way to say, this is bullshit, what I'm talking about. I never noticed it before because I never had a time to explicate myself through from beginning to end in this more Socratic way. I need to see the evolution of this idea. We don't even get the chance in conversation without being fucking interrupted or the end of our sentence being bitten off or whatever. And the listener can now learn to open his own mind. Doesn't matter what the actual argument is. I'm not even talking about the content of the argument. I'm just saying the very simple mechanics. The fact of being able to uninterruptedly explain brings in a kind of a space and a kind of a silence. And this will then move into a deeper reservoir of attention from even the viewer, from even the listener who now can draw upon his answer, I think with a little bit more clarity and a bit more depth. And I just, in the end, with all the noise that was happening on the Internet at the time and in these conferences, I just wasn't willing to sacrifice it. So it was either go away, you know, and just move on to do something else in life, or stick to the guns here. And that's what our slave did, and we've never looked back. So the idea is take all the frivolity out of it and have a reverence for these, the content, you know, and try to make an environment where you, you're not interrupting yourself and you're not being interrupted by other people. It can break down. Of course, if you have a guest, you've got to make an allowance because the guests usually don't know this. And so they're in another space. And so that can, you know, sometimes break down. But by and large, even despite that, you can make it a kind of a mode, a way of communicating and is going to be a learning curve for our members because they're just coming in out of the, the cacophony where, you know, everything is just so short. Short and sound bitish. And maybe it's a new experience for them, you know, to follow a line of thought through to the end in the way I've just described. But in any case, I can't do anything else. If this was ever to stop or the demand came to do something else, then I would just forget it and just retire. Yerasimos 00:16:57.020 - 00:17:16.460 Yeah, well, I think there's plenty of demand. But have you noticed, like, I mean, it's more of a personal question, like your audience has been steady or like growing exponentially depending on what's happening in the world. Like, because you have such a loyal audience. I've found over the years, like people that are into Enslaved. They're into Enslaved, right, David? Michael 00:17:16.460 - 00:17:17.020 Maybe. David 00:17:18.960 - 00:20:30.840 Well, we definitely have the, the Keeners that have stayed with us from the beginning. We have a lot of like, long standing members or members that have kind of come and gone. They always come back, you know, to check in what's going on. And then we have new people joining. We have our share of stalkers and crazy people. We had a cat lady that wanted Michael and I to move to Seattle to live in a compound with her, like these kind of things. It's pretty cute to see, but for the most part we have very academic thinkers. We have a mix of people. I've had people that are lawyers, doctors, government workers and then construction guys and Then soccer moms and like. So I find we've got a pretty wide variety and. But what I've noticed is that we do have a foundation of incredible members that have been there through thick and thin. In the beginning, when I came into doing this, we started in an era where technology was in fast change. It's even crazier now. And trying to keep up with what platform can we go on that's gonna facilitate our needs? At the same time, who can I trust to help manage that? And at the same time, how do we dodge the arrows of censorship and shadow banning and getting kicked off platforms? And you just invested all this money and time to put all your library there. How do you do it? Custom? Is it better to go custom? You know, these are all the questions we've had to go through. And so the. The creation of Enslaved is something that started in the rough, and it's just being honed over time to accommodate all of these things that we have to face to do this. And especially with what I love about what Michael answered about the philosophy of having silence, having time uninterrupted, not all the flashes, not all the. All the constant ads. Like, I tried doing shows with ads, and I just wanted to die. Like, you know, so you just. You get to a point where you say, all right, this is the best formula. And the people that are going to be true to it are the people that have the understanding of that philosophy that we're here to look, to search, to investigate, to study at a very high level. This is not unslaved. I always tell people, Enslaved is the advanced class. You know, you kind of skip right to black belt level. And there's lots of simple things for just anybody. But it's for truly curious people that want to spend the time that are okay with segueing into other ideas and ways of looking at things they wouldn't otherwise do, that are okay with confronting their biases and their belief systems and their ideas and critiquing them for real and really putting them up against some of the best minds in the world and just seeing, you know, where it all fits. And so it's not for everybody. But what I find interesting is the people that have stayed the kind of emails we get, the kind of thanks we get, the kind of just amazing messages we receive. I'm sure you guys get it, too. It's changed people's lives, and it's changed my life, and I'm helping to run it, right? And so if I sit here for hours every week, Listen to Michael, present or hearing guests or hearing ideas. There's a lot of episodes of Unslave where I'm just sitting there, quiet, just taking notes, because I am also just a student. And I feel like that's who we attract. We attract people that are students of this who want to learn, and they see that the platform is there for them to really have that space to do that. And those are the people that stick around long term. For sure. Yerasimos 00:20:31.640 - 00:20:57.390 Yeah. That's pretty awesome. I mean, I say this often. Like, there are times where I just show up. I'm in front of my mic, I'm in my, you know, front of the computer, and we're having these conversations, and I forget that thousands of people are gonna listen to it. Yeah, just forget, because you're just doing your thing. I enjoy doing it. I love having these conversations. I like connecting. I like sharing knowledge. And then, like you said, you get an email like, I just found your. I just found your podcast, and I binge watched 200 episodes in the last five months. Michael 00:20:57.390 - 00:20:57.750 And. Yerasimos 00:20:57.830 - 00:21:17.550 And I'm just like, wait, what? Like, this is. Kind of blows my mind, but, like, I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful to be able to create something that's going to plant seeds for people. And then again, everyone's on their own path. They can take the seed, they can water it, and go. Go towards what they're more interested in or not. Like, and what you guys do, I mean, you're planting seeds, and it's like it's a forest, you know, of. Michael 00:21:17.550 - 00:21:17.830 Of. Yerasimos 00:21:17.830 - 00:21:46.950 Of information. And it's like, sometimes it's been overwhelming, you know, I'm like, okay, let me just focus on this conversation or this pod. I mean, the nuggets that I've gotten. I mean, I don't think I was ever exposed to, like, true conservative thinkers and minds until I came across Enslaved. You know, you just see all the. Some of the stuff on the tv, but, like, going deeper into Iron Rand and. And some of the deeper psychological episodes you did, like, I mean, I don't know how that can't change a person's perspective or change their life. Joel 00:21:49.270 - 00:22:52.220 Yeah, I want to. I want to double click on this idea of psychic community, which obviously is a core concept of Enslaved, which you mentioned, David, because I really think it goes hand in hand with one of Michael's key ethos as well, of zero tolerance for the lie. Because what I found within my own life is, like, there is no real psychic immunity if we're still tolerating the lie within and the times where I felt most, at the times that I felt the least quote unquote psychic community available to me were the times in my life where I knew I was lying to myself on certain matters and was trying to find my way out of the cave, so to speak. So whoever wants to kick it off with like, you know, honing in on what psychic community is, how one develops it and the relationship that we hold with ourselves and how pivotal that is in actually being able to be immune to the lies out there, starts at home with learning to be immune and really, you know, acknowledge the lies that exist within. Michael 00:22:54.060 - 00:23:04.620 Yeah, it's an all important question and it's one that's haunted my career, that if you're going to speak to the public, how are you going to get this point across? That it's not just a deluge of information. Joel 00:23:05.420 - 00:23:05.980 Yeah. Michael 00:23:06.380 - 00:26:12.350 There's this other aspect that is needed, which is the pathogenic aspect of what the world is doing to you. And it works with deconstruction, when that word is used correctly. Deconstruction as we know it through the critical Marxist. Marxist is to tear down and pull down and put nothing of value in its place. But real deconstruction is not destruction, doesn't pose as that. It's to pull a thing down, but put something robust in its place to build up. It's anabolic as well as catabolic, but we are. So the human race has never learned this simple fact. So it is always in an acquisitive mode of, of attain, attain, attain and gets infected with the power of knowledge. And you actually can see this quite obviously when, when you know, when you put those they live glasses on, you start to see this, that this is the ultimate motive for most people out there with podcasts and things like that. And there's none of this other side that has been developed. Now that's not a surprise because to answer your question more specifically, no one can teach it to you. You have to dig down into your own psyche for this. How would we said the, the tools or the artillery, the armaments, the armament of it. No one can give you a class on how to do. They can give you a class on self defense. Yeah, this is not the same thing. It's a psychic community. And therefore it's only going to come in a way in which you have yourself dug down into your own being and have gone to where the hermetic, what the word hermetic really means, which is silence and privacy and the idea of protecting that which is sacred and valuable, you know, in a way that say your blood, your white blood cells protect your body. Now there, it doesn't mean that it's entirely right, introspective. Because there's a thing that can assist in this which is you staying very, very, very close to the work of great minds. This is a benefit that comes from reading great minds that most people are not aware of as they just go straight for the jugular and try to learn, you know, intellectual knowledge. Well, no, because in the individual lives of these great, great people, they themselves had to accomplish this state, state of being, you know, where they had ramped up their defenses, their critical abilities and what have you in a proper way. And they're sort of a psychic community, again we use that term. Right. It's a kind of a sovereignty. Joel 00:26:12.690 - 00:26:13.050 Yeah. Michael 00:26:13.050 - 00:26:34.610 So there's a, again a dualistic mode. You have to, you have. And you can't do any of this without value, without valuing your own self esteem, without valuing yourself. So that's when you put the sign, stay off the grass, Beware the dog. Right. That's, that's important. But if you don't have the self value, which most people don't, then you're obviously wide open. Joel 00:26:34.930 - 00:26:36.290 Well, there's nothing to protect. Michael 00:26:37.330 - 00:26:40.230 Well, that's true. That's absolutely right. Yeah. Joel 00:26:41.510 - 00:26:43.670 Thank you, David. Anything to add there? David 00:26:45.110 - 00:32:31.410 Oh, I couldn't agree more. I mean, as someone that does teach people the physical self defense, it has been an absolute master class. Learning about the psychological self defense, the psychic community and that idea. I had to learn that over time. The whole learning how to guard what's precious to you, what's, what's meaningful to you and you, when you are on this sacred path of trying to understand who you are, why you're here, where you're going, and then you discover yourself along the way and you discover these deeper principles along the way. You found something valuable now. And when you find something valuable, you will defend that thing that is valuable to you. And you realize the world wants to tear it apart and distort it and chop it up and remix it and tell you you're wrong and spit in your face. And that's the knee jerk reaction of the vast majority of people when they're confronted with deep wisdom, deep truth, deep understanding. The respect for silence doesn't really exist as a, as a, as a default. The default setting is noise, confusion, talking over each other, screaming yellow, banging drums. Right. Loud noises all the time. And when you find out why that is, when you find out that There's a part of us that's trying to run away from freedom and run away from selfhood and run away from truth and wisdom. I mean, learning. The amount of lessons I've learned on Enslaved is, is I can't even count them. And it's because when you're introduced to the minds that Michael's bringing up, it's. I can't, I can't say enough. It just, it, you see it and then you can't unsee it. And so you have to protect that. You have to protect that. And I think we've lost the instinct to defend ourselves. I see it in people in a physical sense where I get these dads coming in. They're kind of out of shape. They want to train some martial arts and they have an idea in their head that they know how to fight. And then they get in there with some 14 year old that can just run circles around them until they want to throw up. They're like, what happened when I, you know, how did this happen? And that realization moment that they have that they have to make a decision, they have to either commit and train and be like, hey, I want to be like that, 14. I want to learn that skill, I want to learn that ability. I want to have that physical ability to defend myself against something like that. You either do that and go, I'm jumping in, I'm going to do the work, I'm going to show up, I'm going to be here regular. I'm going to have the discipline, I'm going to ask the right questions and all that. Or I'm just going to walk away and pretend it didn't happen and start going la la la. I'll just keep living in that fantasy and never achieve what I really wanted to set out to achieve because maybe my ego got in the way or whatever. Well, that process, think about that. On the intellectual level, at least in the martial art world, I have the ability to prove it without any question, without any more peeps, without any more hands up. I can prove it. A is A, B is B, right? There is no making up your own delusional fantasy here. But you can't do that as easy in the intellectual world. It is vastly harder territory to prove these things. So you end up not wanting to prove it. After a while you just say, well, we'll create the space. The people that are ready that want to do this, that it's going to benefit, will come to it. And the people that are just going to walk away and be like, ah, I don't have time for this. I got better things to do. That's fine. The good thing I love about all this is that it's, it's based in freedom. The way we built our program, our, our system on Enslaved is you can come and go as you please. There is no, nothing holding you there. There's nobody trying to force any ideas on you. We're not the mainstream media, we're not trying to, you know, so it's, it's a different environment. But I still can't help but see many of the similarities when I'm trying to describe self defense, physical self defense tactics, and the idea that you have to value your safety, you have to believe you're worthy of defending yourself. You have to have us. Like the instinct to fight back is a statement that says, I'm alive, I have a right to be alive. It's like that guy in Network, it's like, I'm a human being, God damn it, my life has value. That in the physical self defense, there's a stake that gets put in the ground and says, here, no further. Right? You got to have that. And the people that have that are people that have just enough self love to be able to do that or they love their family. That's why they're willing to protect their family from the wolves, right? But in the intellectual world, hats off to the work Michael's had to do all of his years to, to focus on that. It's a bitter territory to get into because the intellectual, the, the, the, this is one thing we focus a lot on. The academic types, the people that have been institutionalized and trained how to think and don't have that organic thinking, they will defend their spurious delusions over and over again and they'll cast down anybody else that even seems like they're coming at a higher level of thinking. And there's not that immediate direct proof because the mind won't accept it because intellectually you can battle it off. Whereas in jiu jitsu, it's like, look, you're tapping out, man. There's no, there's no arguing. Whereas you see some of these debates with these crazy people on the streets and you're like, the guy is sitting there just smoking him with point after point, objective fact and reality after objective fact and reality. These guys like, nope, nope, that's not true. This study says this, you know, ChatGPT says this. And it's like, how are you going to negotiate with that? So, yeah, in the end, I believe you need both you need to respect yourself enough to have the ability to physically defend yourself and your property in a world that is trying to take all of that away from you. And you most certainly need something even more important than that, the basis of that, which is that psychic immunity and that intellectual sovereignty. You need to defend that viciously in this world. Yerasimos 00:32:31.890 - 00:33:28.750 Yeah, what, what role has discernment played for you both in this whole process and your whole journey? Like, obviously, Michael, we're going decades back. Like you first get exposed to this stuff. Like, is there an initial process of the novelty, the excitement, the wanting to like shout from the rooftops to convince people. And then, you know, years go by and you're like, well, maybe that's not the right strategy to go towards things. And I just want to focus on the work and whoever's into is it. And maybe I pick and choose my moments as opposed to just talking at people all the time. You need to know what I know. I need to prove to you how much I know. Why don't you know what I know? And so I'm just curious. Obviously some people might have part of their personalities a little bit more, you know, argument oriented or more combative. But like, how have you both danced with that over the course of your lives? Like when to take up the sword and when to put it down and just go, okay, remain in ignorance. I don't want to spend the next hour of my life having this conversation with you or whatever the case may be. I'm just curious how you relate to that. Michael 00:33:29.670 - 00:33:43.830 Yeah, very good question. That takes me back to the late 80s when somewhere between 1983 and. Joel 00:33:46.470 - 00:33:46.750 If. Michael 00:33:46.750 - 00:39:41.280 You really extended it all the way, you could probably get up to about 1998, 99. But I think I'm even making that long, longer than it, than it should be. But let's, let's be generous. Let's say, you know, those five years, this was exactly the mode that I found myself in that you've described reading so much, learning so much. This would been more about subjects I was into at that time. Of course, sort of Irish mythology and symbolism would have been those two, you know, would have been predominant. And then you try to share, I was very much into like, you know, Satanism and things like that. Not into it, but studying, studying it. This is because of things that have been happening in Ireland and all of this. But yeah, of course there's this extraordinary youthful naive period. But it taught me, you know, it actually was a very good thing to do because with family members, brothers, cousins, that type of Thing and then extended family moving on to a wider community. When you're introducing yourself to the world and getting out there, not so much in school, because I'd already moved out of that. Right. But in the streets with people that you had befriended and some people that, you know, you were even sort of reading and researching with. I kind of did that as well during this period. And you are trying to share an exchange now. It can stop, though, as it did for me, because either you run up against walls where these other people, either subtly or not subtly, show you their limit. And this can happen, as I said, in both ways. Either they're subtle about it, but they give you the hint, or they just tell you straight up in their. In your face, whether you like it or not. You know, you know how far they can go with a particular thing. But the upshot was that by 88, 89, I had become completely hermetic and. And stopped it. There was a. I got the American September of 88 for a long trip, you know, a long stay. And there was for maybe, I can't even remember, maybe five, six months, probably even less than that. Memories a bit foggy, you know, with a. With a friend that I'd met at work who had a lot of books on Gnosticism and Christian esotericism. And I was so shocked that this person was at work when I went to their house that they would have a big, giant pile of books in the middle of their room that had been an interest of mine. And I'm going, this is not believable. So I kind of got a little bit caught up again in open discussions about these matters. And I don't regret that that couple of months actually was positive because the other person was extremely receptive and not, you know, just knowledgeable as well. It was a very easy, effortless interaction. But I mentioned this particular moment in the early days of America because it was the last to answer your question, that was it. After that point, I suddenly dispositionally realized this is fucking worthless, it's a waste of my time, and I'm simply not going to do it anymore. It's not to say there weren't exceptions, but again, it would have to be a case, like I just mentioned, where somebody was giving as much as they were receiving. It looked like their minds might have been fertile or it was. It shifted gears where, you know, it would be more like direction, giving somebody direction. It's not quite the same thing as these deep, intense sharings, and it's certainly not any kind of soapbox type thing. So I'd say that for the longest time, even though there was a spate of what you're talking about, this Ferrari, this need to go. Yeah, you know, got to share, got to share. I'm actually glad to say that from quite an early time, from the early 90s, I decided to not do that. And then when the Internet came along, I said, no, this is what I've been waiting for. That. If you're going to get these messages out, do it to a global audience, not to the local yokels in your neighborhood. There's just too many problems with that and there's too much disappointment is the way I looked at it. Okay. There are exceptions to that. I'm not saying that there's not, but on the whole, you can lose a lot of resources and a lot of time. I felt for me going about it that way, it just didn't seem to cat the cash value of it. At the end of the day wasn't enough. And when the Internet came along, that's when I saw, okay, this is the different platform. This now gets out to some guy in Romania. This guy gets to some person listening in, in Serbia, you know, or. Or India. You know what I mean? This is now. Yeah. This is something different. This is why you. It's okay to make the sacrifice to speak to a much larger audience. Astrologers would know all about this. You know, it's the Iranian sort of octave and I. And that pleased me. So then I change my strategy. Yeah. But when it comes to individuals in my own personal life, I come stay completely stum. They don't know what I do. I don't care to tell them what I do. They don't know about my writings, my websites, none of it. No interest whatsoever in sharing that. And even if I'm even asked, I tell them a pack of lies. You know, just. Just lie till I'm blue in the face. I don't. Don't get into any of these subjects at all. David 00:39:41.760 - 00:39:42.480 Do you tell them. Yerasimos 00:39:42.480 - 00:39:45.870 You tell them you're an accountant or something, a musician. David 00:39:46.030 - 00:39:46.910 Okay, okay. Joel 00:39:47.070 - 00:39:47.470 This. Michael 00:39:47.950 - 00:40:03.870 And. And just get the. Off this subject as fast as possible. I don't know if I'm right or wrong to do that, but it's something. Again, you know, on a personal level, just refuse to do it. We can. There's so many other things we could talk about. I could talk about their lives. That would be much, much more interesting than anything I do. Yerasimos 00:40:04.670 - 00:40:05.950 Yeah, thanks for that answer. Joel 00:40:06.350 - 00:40:11.850 You. Do you recall what the first piece of media you Ever uploaded to the Internet was in this regard. Michael 00:40:14.170 - 00:40:15.130 Are you talking to me here? Joel 00:40:15.130 - 00:40:15.770 Yeah, yeah. Michael 00:40:18.970 - 00:41:10.730 No, but I'll tell you one thing that the first thing that uploaded that mattered, and I mean super mattered, was the Terrascopes Mystery School. It was the early days of the Internet. It wasn't done even right, you know, obviously the first. But it was a good attempt and it had a member section. And I remember multiple times sitting in my little apartment in America, this is in the Palo Alto area, and saying to myself that if and when it was all in paper, you see, it was in paper form. I designed the whole website on paper. That if and when this can go up and I click a button and there it is, I'm done. I will never. I will never want anything else in my life. I will never ask for anything else, and I would never want anything else. David 00:41:10.970 - 00:41:11.450 Wow. Michael 00:41:11.690 - 00:41:21.450 I just want to see this come together and I'm done for life. My needs, in that way, were very, you know, stark. Joel 00:41:22.010 - 00:41:22.410 Yeah. Michael 00:41:22.410 - 00:41:55.170 And I put everything into that mystery school. And I said, if. If life gives me the benefit, if I find the right person, you know, if we're able to do it, which of course did happen, I will be completely satisfied. And that. And also on top of that, any past failures of which there was so many that you can't count, I will write those off. I will no longer be attached to those, and I will no longer mourn for those or, you know, smart with any kind of regret. Joel 00:41:55.700 - 00:41:56.780 Yeah, yeah. Michael 00:41:56.780 - 00:42:46.580 So I. So this is probably, you know, the answer. There were other things, of course, that were bunged up, but they might have also then been taken down just as quick. No, it was the Mystery School that was the one that launched. Now, of course, what happens is when you say that to the universe, you're probably a liar, because after it is up, just like all human desire, you desire something else again. And there's a sort of a natural momentum always pushing you along. And I know this became a very big theme in my life to notice that, because I tried to hold to my original pact. And when the next thing came along, and I think that was actually, believe it or not, slideshows and conferences, it jumped very quickly. Right. But I was very conscious of the fact that, what am I doing? Didn't I say, when this mystery school goes up, I'll go to the beach and lie there with my radio and champagne cocktail or something, you know. But of course, it never happens. David 00:42:46.580 - 00:42:46.740 Right. Michael 00:42:46.740 - 00:43:07.110 You always move on to the next and the next and the next. So. Well, you have to commit to that. That's just the way human life is. But believe me, this townscopes, mystery school and maybe a little video that went with it or something, this was what mattered beyond all things to me. This was, you know, the equivalent of standing back and looking at the Sistine Chapel and going, we're done, forget about me now. David 00:43:08.230 - 00:43:08.710 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:43:10.390 - 00:43:15.510 David, do you want to answer the question about discernment and a little bit about your journey when it comes to this? David 00:43:16.950 - 00:49:17.780 Yeah, discernment. I mean, it's been a bit of a different road for me. I, I've always been, I have a very social side to myself and I also come from the sort of martial arts flame, Mars and Aries and all that stuff. So I don't mind confronting things head on actually. And I like it. It makes me feel like I'm being honest and everything. But there's definitely a cost to that, man. I've been learning that over my life and I started, you know, my discernment with, you know, in terms of, if you're asking in terms of when do I engage with people, I have the. I have the same policy I do with my martial arts. I don't start shit, but if you bring shit up, I'm fucking down. Let's go like, let's talk about it in a positive way, in a confrontational way. I really don't care. I just like, I don't mind it, but I never, if I go to a party, if I go to a barbecue, if I go to some friggin festival or someone's place or whatever and people start bringing up, you know, whatever it is, politics or whatever, I gotta bite my tongue, you know, I'll be honest, I gotta bite my tongue. And I do that as a policy. If I go to my family Thanksgiving dinner, I'm gonna shut the up the whole time. But in the back corner after dinner we're having a little whiskey, my uncle or something comes over and he's like, hey, what about that build a Brew group thing? I thought I saw it, I might talk to him about it, you know. Yeah, yeah. Um, and, and then when it comes to online though, like, so that'd be like people in my personal life, at my dojo, everybody knows, like I have a, a lot of people at my local dojo have no idea who I am. They don't know, they don't look into it. If they're hearing about it, it's because other people that know are telling them. Because I keep a strict policy in my dojo, nothing else exists inside this space except what we're here to do. There is no political, political, political talk. There's no debating any of that kind of stuff. It's we're here for one reason, one reason only. I have a mixed bag of people in that room, that train, they come from all kinds of walks of life. Trust me. I live in British Columbia, Canada, which is like the California of Canada. And I've got great rural hardcore conservative farmer people. And I've got pink haired, you know, trans lives a lot, you know all that. I got a mix of people. And what's really weird about that is we get in there and everybody just turns into a normal person for a while. Just for a couple hours where they're just talking. They online they would probably be saying I hope you die a horrible death for believing what you believe. But in the dojo they don't think other just two humans doing the same thing, loving the same thing. So I keep that space neutral. When I go online though on my accounts where it's got Truth Warrior as the name and I'm posting and people come on and start getting aggressive, I make a decision, how much time do I have in my day? What kind of a mood am I in? And most of my debate tactics with some of these trolls are simply for my own practice because that's how I learned martial arts was like I didn't learn it by paint, by numbers and memorize and repeat and just regurgitate. I learned it by testing it. And I like testing my ideas to see if they're robust. I, I like also I have such an insatia. My biggest bane, if I had to give one up, is that I have such an insatiable curiosity about people and what makes them believe what they believe. It's, it's the driving force behind everything I've ever done. Like that's what got me into studying religion. It was like, well why do you believe this? Whereas that guy down at the Islamic center believe something totally different just as fervently. That question was the biggest question for me. So I kind of, I'll use some of that. But I've eased off a lot on that because you find out I'm wasting time. Most of these people are from some bot farm in India. Most or they're just people that are, they're not caring about the subject. They're just there to rattle you and just waste your time. Sometimes I'll do it for the benefit of other readers that might have similar questions. Like if we're talking about difficult subjects. Like even some of the subjects you've brought me on or brought Michael on to talk about that are controversial or there's many sides. There's a lot of, you know, anxiety about the subject. I like seeing what people would say be. I like seeing what. What are you going to say if I present this to you? Some guy says something, I'll go, okay, what about this? I'm curious. I. I kind of want to know. It'd be like if I set up my roundhouse kick a certain way against a Muay Thai guy who's like an expert Muay Thai guy. I was just sparring with one the other day, and I come from more of a mixed style. I want to see what are you going to do with this? And then I find out, oh, nothing at all. Great. Or, oh, he's going to do that. I got to figure out my new strategy. It's more from that. So my discernment is personally motivated. It's based off a lot of different things. But let me tell you, as I've gotten into my 40s, as I've been doing this as long as I have, I cut out probably 95% of engaging with people in general on social media at all. And I just try to focus on the content as best I can. I've tried to be good once in a while. You get me in a good mood and I'm ready to rock. But other than that, I try to just let my, Let my intuition, let my. Wherever I'm at, or even just the subject. It's kind of funny though, I gotta be honest real quick. It's interesting to me that subjects that I'm wrestling with, maybe it's a very deep question about something with religion or comparative religion, or we getting into the ET questions lately with the UFOs and all that kind of stuff. And I'll kind of go back into it and go, oh, yeah, I really. That was a good question this person brought up. I really got to investigate it. What's really odd to me is all of a sudden I start getting replies and comments and emails about what I'm organically curious about. I don't know if it's got to do with AI reading our minds these days or if it's just something else going on. Synchronicity. And I do find that interesting. So on those occasions I go, well, maybe I'm prompted to. If I'm prompted to investigate this question, I have. And now I got people attacking this argument. I'm trying to make maybe That's a time to try to suss it up for myself. Right. Other times, I'll just kind of walk away. So, yeah, in general, that's kind of how I operate. Joel 00:49:19.300 - 00:50:40.780 Thanks, man. I wanted to just make another comments on this topic of psychic immunity, if you can circle back there for a second, because I think when people first hear this, they think of, oh, the conditioning from the media, from politics, from the government. But to me, that's secondary or even tertiary, because as we were talking about, like, as you go in this journey and, like, you discover inner meaning, inner value, inner treasure, and all of a sudden you have this urge to want to protect that value. For me, psychic community was not letting the world tell me what my path is any longer. And the way that I protected that psychic community was by choosing my own path, by honoring that inner voice and saying, no, Joel, you know, your constitution isn't meant to be doing these. These things in your life. That path isn't meant for you. And it begs the question of, what do I really want? What interests me? What do I really want to pursue? And that was where the psychic immunity really kicked in. To be able to say, no dad, no friend, no mom, no peer group, no friend group. This is what I'm doing. I know what I want. You don't know what I want. You don't know what's best for me. And in protecting that, everything else came online a lot quicker because that's where inner power was really fortified and really wielded in going my own way and seeing the fruit and the value and the joy and the satisfaction that came as a result of that as well. Michael 00:50:47.180 - 00:50:58.080 Yeah, yeah, you know, I get you. And. And it can sometimes be that you have to repeat that over and over again in life. The first one is the hardest, obviously. Joel 00:50:58.240 - 00:50:58.720 Yeah. Michael 00:50:58.720 - 00:51:57.130 It's beautifully brought out in Ayn Rand's the Fountainhead, both the movie and the book, that the first one is the hardest one. And then what happens is there'll be something within us that kind of likes that once you. Once you're able to muster the courage to do it the first time. Courage is very much to do with an initial thing, not. Not a repeat phenomenon, but an original rite of passage that takes place. But it comes with a benefit. Do it once, and it'll be easier the next time. Yeah. So, yeah, it's the first one that is the most confrontative and the one that can paralyze your will. But once you've done it once, then the next time is even the easier and the More that you travel down the Siddhartha Road, the more you actually will have to rely on this, this capacity because the violations will never stop. In fact, they'll even increase. Yerasimos 00:51:58.410 - 00:52:19.280 Yeah, well, each act, well, especially the initial one, but each act just continues to build more and more and more self esteem. And then you're just like, I'm living my life. Like, it doesn't feel like I need to muster up the same level of courage as the first time. Like, you're more contained, you know who you are, you're grounded and you're doing your thing and if people like it, okay, great. They don't off. Michael 00:52:20.080 - 00:52:23.360 Yeah. Fall in love with the word no is the way I used to put it. Joel 00:52:24.720 - 00:52:25.520 Yeah, yeah. David 00:52:25.680 - 00:54:30.590 Because otherwise you're going to become everybody else. And this is the issue. And I'm the kind of person that I, I want to be able to be influenced by people that are worth being influenced by. Right. I want like, and I want to earn the respect from respectable people. But I don't have that need to just get it from just anybody. Not just out there just looking for any hit. You know what I mean? It's like, it's got to be like top of the line or nothing. And that's a contract I made with myself that I was never going to betray myself over. The need to be liked, to be included, to be any of those things. And I mean, the 2020 era just finished off any assembling, clinging particles of me wanting to have people just automatically assume what they perceive to be positive things about me. It just became, oh, right. Most people are not guided by intuition and reason and sanity. They're guided by fear. They're guided by, I want to be included in the group and I want to get badges and stars. And that's what most people are driven by. And so when you realize most people are driven by that, what's respectable about that? So why do you want respect from that? I'd rather go with the guys that they don't really want to give or take respect of any kind. They're just being what they are naturally, organically. And there's a natural, organic respect that forms. And there's even a respect to say, hey, maybe we walk together on this and we don't walk together on that, but that's okay. That's why I like you. I like you because you have a different way that's different, that's earned. That's earned amongst a different level. Right. But the vast majority of people out there, their opinions, what is Mark Twain their opinions worth a brass. This isn't even worth the brass farthing, you know. So why you, why you? Why are you sleep, losing sleep at night? Trying to impress that. Don't try to impress that. Try to make an impression on yourself. Start there, build from the inside out. And then suddenly it's not that you're forming this, this total armoring to the world because I think that could be the other end of this question. When is that too far? Michael 00:54:31.160 - 00:54:31.400 Right? David 00:54:31.560 - 00:56:30.040 When is that too far to the point where now what you're just, you're just rejecting the whole world? What are you different than an Aztec? Then what are you different than the, the priests that go flog themselves and punish themselves and you go, you can get to a hyper level of protectivity that now you're no longer participating at all in the world or with people. Right. So there's like extremes, at least that's how I see it. But the most dangerous one, I think if it was going to pick the two, is the one where you're selling yourself out. It's what, it's the betrayal of the self, right? The betrayal of the self, the betrayal of your own mind. The betrayal because you're performing, performing for those parents, performing for those. I had it in the martial art world, bad because I had idols in that world. And then you find out those idols are made of nothing. They're paper thin, they're fake, they're not what you thought they were. They aren't the Bruce Lee's, they aren't the organic ones, they're just pretending they are. And then you find out you've been swindled by that. And then you got to move on from that and you got to go through the growth of that. And then what part of me was blinding myself to that? In the past I've also done a lot of work looking into these people who've recovered from being in cults. Right, the recovery, the people who left the cults. It's like in the, with the whole trans thing. Yeah, talk about, let's talk to the detransitioners, the people that left that ideology. What do they have to say? Right? Those are the people you talk to, the people that left the church. That's what I started with when I was growing up. The people that left the church. Why would you leave? Bishops, priests, pastors, kids who've been raised in it. What made you leave? What was it? I want to know what your story is. And you'll find out that those are the people that have had to try their entire lives to justify why to everybody. And they eventually get to the point where, like, I'm done justifying why I'm just going to do. And the world will think of it, what it. What it wants. And that's why I love that song. It's like, I did it my way. Like, that's the song I want at my funeral. I did it my way. You know what I mean? And that was the way I was supposed to do it and no other way. Yerasimos 00:56:30.920 - 00:57:22.860 Yeah. Do you notice this is for both of you? Like, when you make a decision, when you take a stand, when you draw the line in the sand for yourself. Like, I mean, obviously, 2020 was a big year. That there may be some challenges, but, like, at some point there is this expansion that you notice in your life, like with your work, with your relationships, with just. Yeah, just in general. I'm just curious how that's been for you, because I speak from my personal experience. Yeah, 2020 was difficult. And at the same time, ever since then, we're six years in now, like, my life has just grown and expanded in so many different ways, you know, through the work that I'm doing with Joel, through the relationships, like, grounded on deep, deep values. Not just, oh, hey, we like the same restaurants and the same music, which. Okay. I mean, that's a. That's a thing. It's a relationship. So I'm just curious what that process has been like for you both, especially, you know, what we went through six years ago. Michael 00:57:24.300 - 00:59:35.240 It never really bothered me. I never really noticed anything about. Was tedious. I think probably coming out of Ireland, where you're all an emergency 247 was the backdrop to that. So we were always living in a perpetual state of chaos. So then when the rest of the world, you know, went through what you're talking about, it didn't bother me in the slightest. And in fact, if anything, it even proved on a deeper level everything I already knew about the human race. It just. It just made it more visceral. I learned nothing from it, except everything was confirmed. But maybe you couldn't even get through to people, and you weren't. You weren't really getting through to people. The things that have happened, and this is backed up by a deep look at the astrology, by the way, but that which has happened in the last 10, 15 years has confirmed the warnings of many, many great sages. I was aware of their work from the year Dot. So when these things unfold, the black, you know, I was wearing those they live glasses Already. So everything that was happening was just like, yep, check that off, check that off, check that off. There wasn't a one. One moment of surprise for me. And then on the personal level, I was so, you know, knee deeper in projects that I was working on, like this, like my latest book, you know, the existentialist thing that was taken, like, years to write and other projects, many of which have turned up on Enslaved. But there's other things I was doing, you know, other than that I didn't look up from any of that. And so this extra level of isolation was such a benefit, such a boon, whereas for other people, it was a fucking living nightmare. Right. To have the extrovert life be curtailed, for me, it was an absolute boon. And. And my pace of creativity accelerated exponentially. And I'll. I'll never forget the benefit of that. So many projects were able to be done that might have. Might have been many, many more years prolonged, actually. David 00:59:37.960 - 01:05:55.970 Yeah, I mean, there's elements of that that was same for me. A few differences. I definitely felt like my creativity and my dedication to the work I was doing in this world, in this field, like, absolutely accelerated because I was like, I'm not the kind of person the government should want to lock in his house by himself and keep the Internet going, because I'll just keep. I'll just, you know, work on. On that front as well. You kind of make lemons out of lemonade, right? For me, the traumatic aspect or the. The part I had to deal with the most was anger, like a visceral anger. And it's because I have. I had very young children at the time, two young girls. As a father with two young girls, there's a different gear that opens up in you. You can't even help it. And you see, you know, the way everything's going and all these kids getting messed up, and they can't go anywhere and they can't go to the beach, they can't go to the playground. It's all taped off with police tape, that kind of stuff, right? And watching the abuse happen, you know, it's. It's like watching a war in some ways. You know, you're just like, what the hell? And then seeing what happened in my country, realizing that this isn't even the biggest problem we're going to be dealing with, that this is just one of the cannonballs that Covid. And all those lockdowns and the medics coming in was just one of the cannonballs fired at us with a volley of other cannonballs that are still hitting the side of our ship and Canada is about to sink. We just got labeled. We're officially the only G7 country that is in official recession. I don't know if it has anything to do with having like the former bank of England and Chatham House guy as the leader. I don't know. But anyways, I, I, I had to deal with that. My biggest challenge was not my fear of what was going on. My biggest challenge was dealing with my visceral rage about what was going on. So what I did that, the, the thing that helped me was the creative process. That's when I produced my film series. That's when I did two to three podcasts a day. That's when I was trying to find a way. First of all, I wanted to find a way to not have to go find some piece of job, you know, or take money from something or beg for money. I didn't want to get into that place, so I wanted to find a way to make things work. I was, I had my martial art business completely shut down overnight. So I lost 60 of my income overnight. So I was definitely a little bit pissed about that. I lost my television career, which I wasn't really trying to have a television career. I wanted to see how far it could go. I realized after a while I didn't want to do this kind of work. I didn't want to be a circus animal and have everything sound bited all the time. I just thought it was a great way to get some workout and have that experience. Right. But I did lose that gig because specifically of the policy of you can't leave and come back into Canada unless you're jabbed up. So that was, I was pissed about that. I put a lot of time and effort and money and investment into that. I. We lost a lot of our platforms. I lost a lot of my platforms that I worked really hard to build. I lost a lot of the following that I had that took really hard to build because of all the censorship and the shadow banning and everything else. I was pissed about that. Right. So there were things that directly affected what kind of food I could put on the table for my kids and what kind of life I could provide and where I wanted to go as a, as a, as a human being in my life, you know. And then you also are mad because some of the illusions you had that I had, everybody had started to fall away, right? And so you go through that process. But what I found at the end of that was that this was the most valuable thing that could have happened to me just as a soul, like I took it as. No, I would have rather it not happen. But at the same time, here we are. I incarnated at this time in history. This is what was going down on planet Earth. I came here. I feel very deeply that I came here to explore this time and study it and observe it and be a part of it. And so it gave me the best opportunity to do exactly that. And just funny enough, when I left the anger aside and pursued the creative, suddenly doors opened up. Like you were saying, Erasmus, things changed in a very positive way and have continued to be. Yeah, there's challenges, but I. I embrace the challenges, right? So it wasn't. It's like I had to go from deep anger that I didn't know how to express into finding out the best expression of that is what's it? Success is the best revenge, right? That no matter how much the government tried to clamp down and take everything away from the producers in this country, and no matter how much the media tried to clamp down against people like me in my basement that are getting more views than CBC News is, no matter how much all those things happened or tried to block income potential or whatever, it didn't work. So to me, I found that, wow, I learned a very valuable lesson in life there. So I'm very grateful for it. So I sit back every day and I'm grateful. I didn't have to leave my home. I didn't have to go find some job. I didn't have to take any government money. I didn't have to take any loans from family or friends. I didn't have to do a lot of things that sadly most of my friends and family had to do. Most of my friends and family's lives were utterly and completely destroyed. So I had to watch that and grieve over that. I also watched very close friends of mines die as a result of whatever it was or the treatment of whatever it was. And so a lot of things happened that I just kind of realized, wow, I have a lot to be grateful for that because I decided to stick true and not get. Not let that anger that I felt about it eat me away, but find a positive outlet for it. Doing unslaved the entire time, getting deep into, you know, even the unrelated. Well, they're all related, but the subjects, like, we weren't just sitting there covering all pandemic stuff all the time. We're talking about like deep philosophy and ideas and what makes things and build civilizations. And I Don't know. There was something healthy and cathartic about all of that. So I sit back now and I go, I'm grateful for that time and. But I'm not. I'm not taking my eye off the ball about the people who are guilty of causing it. I know exactly who they are, I know where they are, and they're still running the roost. So, yeah, the mission carries on. So, you know, keep coming. Joel 01:05:56.850 - 01:07:05.720 Thanks for sharing, man. All right. Earlier, obviously we mentioned how the alternative community is very prone to deception as well. And we've seen a massive growth spurt within the quote, unquote, alternative community. So much so that I kind of feel. Feels like mainstream community these days. And so more people are like, questioning things. They're quote, unquote, seeing things differently. And then there's this big magnetic force which is the alternative community, which people get sucked into. They find their favorite talking head, their favorite commentary, and, you know, all of a sudden this new ideology about what's really happening in the world, who the real hidden hand of control is, just gets super glued into this person's mind. So how can we provide some clarity for someone coming into a truth seeking path today who is really genuinely seeking answers and seeking truth beyond this alternative main fray that all of a sudden they're struggling to avoid in today's day and age? Michael 01:07:08.830 - 01:07:24.030 Yeah, it's very difficult. And I think it. It's a big challenge for anyone doing this work, you know. So for me, though, the simple answer is try to introduce them to these great minds that I was speaking about. Joel 01:07:24.350 - 01:07:24.790 Yeah. Michael 01:07:24.790 - 01:08:20.920 And remind them that for the sake of their psychic community, to stay very close to the stay in the aura, as it were, of the great greatest thinkers of all who downloaded spiritual truth and wisdom. And that will be. This is not rhetorical that I'm talking about. I mean, it actually will be the difference between sanity and insanity. The people who just do a lot of lip service to these great minds, and there's many people who are like this. They pretend that they've read their books. They pretend that they're staying close to this knowledge. They're not. They risk. They risk something frightful. So my message is, this is almost like the Surgeon General's warning. There is no way for you to stay sane in this world on multiple levels unless you follow this formula. And of course, I've done it, so I know what I'm talking about. Joel 01:08:21.480 - 01:08:21.960 Yeah. Michael 01:08:21.960 - 01:09:31.109 So the only thing then goes back to your point about discernment. Then who is. Who qualifies for the Say list so unslaved. That was what I've been doing conscientiously and consciously through all these years, and I did before that, is to make sure that people know who the is. Alvin Boyd K. Who the hell is, you know, auto rank and all of that and trying to make it as interesting as possible. So that, that's all I would have to say about that, is that it's an actual formula for sanity and for survival. Stay within the aura of the mighty, mighty people. And these are not going to be people. These are not going to be people that your local pastor or your local motivational thinker speaker. Sorry, right. Or some of the other Johnny's talking heads on the public media have talked to you about. It's not going to be those people. You have to look a little bit deeper, but when you do, there's going to be incredible value. And so, yeah, it's just about putting up that signpost. And I think I've done that successfully. Joel 01:09:31.349 - 01:09:49.189 Yeah. So be less concerned with really trying to figure out what's happening out there and be more concerned with, you know, finding psychic health through these great thinkers to seek sanity. Can't remember who said it, but like, making friends with the eminent dead, you know, I think is. Is an important practice. Michael 01:09:49.840 - 01:09:50.640 That's right, yeah. Yerasimos 01:09:51.040 - 01:09:58.640 Yeah. Staying away from the headlines and the Instagram reels and the quick thoughts and sound bites and like, go sit in your garden and read a book. Michael 01:09:59.040 - 01:10:46.700 Yeah. Oh, yes. And the rest will come easy. So once you stay close to these great minds, all these other capacities that you're talking about that are in a very flaccid state, they will start to harden and you will even start to parse those people that you're reading. And you'll say, ah, this was good for me for a while, but now I see the terrible flaws in this. I was a bit fooled here, you know, but again, all of these things, it's a journey. And that discernment will come, but it will not come if you. If you leave it down or turn to the world. This is not. This is not something that is even in the world's hands. The world is a surrogate womb that you enter into when you want to regress and when you want to completely avoid selfhood. There's just no two ways about it. Yerasimos 01:10:48.480 - 01:10:51.680 Yeah. It seems like, oh, David, you go. And then I'll say something. David 01:10:52.000 - 01:13:24.100 Oh, yeah, no, I was just gonna say that's definitely the prime answer. I mean, discernment is not something you're gonna get immediately it only comes. And it's not just with this information or studying deep subjects or even studying what's going on in the world and in the time in which you live. I personally don't feel like there's anything wrong with that. Unless if you're. If you're. As long as you're not distracted by it in the way that it's designed to. As long as you're studying it, as long as you have consciousness applied to it, right? And maybe that's just. You got to reach that level of discernment before you should be doing those kind of things, right? But the discernment is earned. It's like when I have a new student come into my dojo. They don't know anything about what we're doing in the beginning, so they don't really have the foundations to really have true discernment, right? They'll come into my dojo and. And then they'll go on social media after, and they got a million guys telling them why they are the better ones. And my way of doing it is the wrong ones. And that person really has no idea who's telling the truth or not. No matter what way you spin it, they have to put the time in and allow the process to unfold and then see for themselves. Hey, is this giving me results? Is this. Is this improving what I'm hoping it would improve? Am I gaining the knowledge and skill that I was hoping to gain? Right? And then over time, you're now in a better position to judge if you can even make that call, right? Like that. That's how everything goes. So nothing's new when it comes to these subjects. These are the most impenetrable subjects imaginable. These are the questions we deal with on Enslaved. And I know many of the questions you guys deal with as well are the biggest mysteries of life. And if you don't come at it as a journey, like Maika was saying, as a process, as an experience, and you're fixated on. I want the results, man. I want it now. I need to know the answers. I need to put it into a. AI to break it all down for me. You know, we're talking about the mysteries of being in time. You just. You're not there yet. That's like the White Belt mindset. And there's nothing wrong with being there. We were all there. We're all there in different areas, right? But discernment is earned. It's an earned thing. And so the only advice I could give on a very practical level is when you're going through the alternative research community, just watch out for the collectivists. It's a pretty easy gauge. You can. You'll know them by their arguments, their way of thinking, the way they look at everything. If they're coming at groups and this group is the one doing it, and that group is the one that's better than this group, what different are you than the woke mob? Not at all. So that's very true, man. Joel 01:13:24.100 - 01:13:33.590 The foundational understanding of individualism versus collectivism sits at the roots of, of so much of this. You know for sure it has to,. David 01:13:33.590 - 01:15:57.910 Because in the end you can belong to. I told this I was having a friendly little debate with a longtime friend of mine that recently converted to Christianity and was now trying to tell me everything that, you know, he thinks I didn't know about it or say, this is what you missed, Dave. This is what you missed. And so I like having these conversations and still love the guy. But I told him, I said, you're now wearing this badge and you're now dawning this new costume and this new identity. If it's working for you, great. But here's the thing. At every stage of this, you as an individual mind had to concede points, had to agree, had to choose not to agree. And the more you pay attention to that, the more you're sitting in your little Sunday school group chat, you are going to find that you differ slightly from every single speaker, every single person, even on the subject matter that you're supposedly all in agreement with. And there the observation of the individual that is you is born, is that you realize, hey, even when I'm in a group, I still think slightly different than every member of the group, right? So just pay attention to that and then come back and tell me what your beliefs are. Because if your beliefs are downloaded from the group and the official dogma, and then you're going to say, my mind is exiting the stage and I'm just going to install this manual. You've ceased to be an individual. You've ceased to be thinking. And how could that be Christlike? How could that be religious? I'm just using that as an example, right? But the minute you observe that, hey, you're going to start to have your own slightly different take because of your own unique experience in life and the fact that you are a unique mind, right? And you're going to have to listen to that or reject it and shut down that, that imperial voice, right? So I feel like that's a good way for people if they're diving into podcasts and they're diving into things. Careful with gravy trains. Ralph Ellis, one of our other favorite guests on Enslaved. He's foundational to unslaved. He called it bandwagon jumping. He's like, humans like to jump on bandwagons, and that's usually where things go wrong, because now nobody's thinking anymore. They're all on the bandwagon together. Right. And so that. That's why I look that as a marker if you're. If you're curious, basically, wherever the crowd's going, just get the hell out of there for a bit and get some perspective. And. And you're gonna find that individuation process whether you like it or not. Joel 01:15:58.470 - 01:15:58.950 Yeah. Yerasimos 01:15:58.950 - 01:16:21.360 Yeah. It seems like such a challenge in the modern world now is how to, like, create solitude for yourself. You know, it's just like. I feel like 100 years ago is different now. It's like all the devices, there's just noise everywhere that, like, you have to have the strength to create solitude for yourself in your life. David 01:16:21.680 - 01:16:22.240 Whatever. Yerasimos 01:16:22.240 - 01:16:23.600 Whatever it takes. Like. Joel 01:16:23.920 - 01:16:24.280 Yeah. Yerasimos 01:16:24.280 - 01:16:30.560 Everything's trying to grab your attention more. So I feel like these days than, you know, perhaps previous times. David 01:16:33.040 - 01:17:27.100 Well, that's something you got to fight for. I mean, the solitude is always the space within. You know, that's the hermetic axiom. And then you want physical solitude. Best of luck. I mean, I'm lucky. Where I live. I can find places where I can be in nature alone with the bald eagles. Okay. There's some places that I found. That's why I live here. I don't live here for the politics, trust me. Yeah. To find a place, like, even coming up here, when I lived in Toronto, a massively busy city, it's just a concrete jungle. You. You can't. There's zero solitude in that area. Okay. You come out here, there's actually open spaces. It's like, when I went to Ireland, Michael. It was one of the things I noticed because when I was. When I came to Ireland years ago, I came while living in Toronto, and that was my first time I came to Ireland. I was like, wow, there's just like, wide open spaces of just, like, grass and sheep and some mountains off of the trees. Joel 01:17:27.580 - 01:17:27.980 Wow. David 01:17:27.980 - 01:17:59.610 Wow. There's not a Costco in the way. There's not a street lamp in the way. It's just. It's. It's open space. And when I came out west out here, the whole, like, the island is like that. Most of the island is like that most of the island is untouched and then you have these little pockets. So like five minute drive in any direction. I can find a place where I'm literally all by myself. And again I thank my stars for it because that is getting so hard. And I'll bet you that's a short lived thing too based on things are going. But yeah, find it when you can, that's for sure. Joel 01:17:59.850 - 01:18:53.280 Yeah, yeah. I mean for me, I really tend to find solitude also in like my creative process when I'm by myself. Right. Because that's also when I feel like I'm most in touch with myself, most in touch with the deeper desires and yearnings of my soul and like what I found. And I wonder if this is true for you guys as well. Like as purpose increases, as meaning increases, as the desire to create value increases, I found my desire to really uncover conspiracy has dramatically decreased. You know, and perhaps even that desire to understand the conspiracy external to me on such a deep level was in some sense a distraction from the conspiracy of why aren't I really becoming who I was born to be. Why not? Why aren't I really fulfilling these creative urges that I have? So I'm just curious if anyone has thoughts on that statement. David 01:18:56.360 - 01:22:00.530 Yeah, I mean, just real quick I would just say you gotta find your calling as to what level you want to engage in that bigger game. Right. For me, I personally feel like I get a lot out of when I look at the external world, when I look at what's happening and I study what you're calling like the conspiracy or the dark side of human history, I get a lot of insight about myself. So when you, when you look externally, it, for me it doesn't have to be separated, it's just more information, more confirmation. And that's how I take it. But if those, if, if that there is that side, I see what you're saying, where a lot of people get into studying these subjects to distract themselves from this selfhood road. Right. And that can be an issue. But I do try to remind people we do live in this world. This is, this is fact based reality world as well, where there are things that are happening and there are things that have brought the conditions into being, where things are where they're at. Right. So if, if you keep your eye only on the ball and you're only looking at the dark side of things and it's all external, that can be an issue. But to completely shut yourself off entirely and not look at it at all and walk away and go, I don't want to look at it. Um, it. It could be something that doesn't give you the information you need to make better choices about your life and to learn about your life. So I think for everybody, it's a unique journey, and you're at different stages. And I think also people are built for different things. Not everybody's meant to be a. A serial killer detective, you know what I mean? Like these guys. I was speaking to a friend of mine or recent friend of mine who did 30 years doing murder investigations, and that's. That was his job. This guy is one of the most unique people I've ever met, and I can see why he was the man for the job and why maybe I wouldn't be the man for the job. Right. But we still need someone on that job, and that guy was made for that job. Right. So there's people that have that curiosity and that psychic protection, I guess, to be able to go in some of those darker avenues, like think of a Ted Gunderson. Think of the guys that had to lift up the carpet and see the mold, like, up close, and then try to warn humanity about it. That takes a very, very unique person that is designed. Their life brought them to that. Their destiny was that. But the vast majority of people, probably not a good idea. So I think everybody just has to see where. What. What's right for me with this. And that's why I love unslaved. We've got categories. If you want to go look at conspiracy and the history of the Templars and the Vatican and the club of Rome and the UN and who's running your government, it's all there. But if you want to find out what's the difference? What's mystery in time, why am I here? What's the deep philosophy? What did the greatest thinkers think about life and confronting the challenges of life. We got it there, too. So it's a. It's. You're here to follow your muse, follow your intuition as to what you need to be focusing on, and that will change over time. You know? Know. Joel 01:22:00.690 - 01:22:01.330 Yep. David 01:22:01.810 - 01:22:02.530 Michael. Michael 01:22:05.090 - 01:27:25.700 Oh, yeah. Well, this is a reality that's going to confront you whether you like it or not. When people build their fences and pretend that there's no such thing as a conspiracy, that's obviously the safe zone. This is what I was talking about earlier. When you have the freedom to go into the surrogate womb and close the door behind you, you know, but anybody who's more conscientious realizes that this is something that is haunting our world. This is history. The forces of what Ayn Rand called the Attila the Hun or the Witch Doctor, those two forces have been here from the year Dot. You can close your eyes or you can open them up and find out what they're about. And for most people, it does become an interest at certain point. But. But that's only because they're lazy and they're terribly bored with the normal fair of life. This is about 98% of the people in the. In the. Into these subjects. They get into it because they're bored with the mediocrity of the world. And when they turn a corner, they stumble is the word they always love to use. And beware when you hear that term, stumble over these, you know, facts of the conspiracy. And then it starts to intrigue them for a while. But I'm never convinced by those types of johnnies, and that is because I understand the utter, utter mediocrity of the academic world, and for that matter, most of the other normie world. It is painfully boring once you've jumped through those hoops to make it, so to speak, and get that parking space and that PhD and that white coat. And there's also a lot of guilt haunting the minds of those people that they did conform to something they know is utterly bestial and rotten to the core. But they conformed. They got the rubber stamp. So this guilt and this boredom makes an interesting cocktail, if you study it. Very interesting cocktail. And it is what then, when they stumble over something alternative, you know, that they really didn't know was there? And normally they wouldn't even want to acknowledge it. They. They'd argue to the death over it. But a point comes in each of these people's lives, and it's interesting to look at, you know, what catalyzed that that's a separate subject. But it's interesting sometimes to look into what was it. But nevertheless, when they do, they have this reaction of enthusiasm. But what really happens, though, is that they're into the subject. So alternative subjects. Yes, sort of. Alex Jonesy, David Eichish. Right level. And they stay there for the rest, for the duration. This is what is a habit. They don't go on to the next levels and the next levels at all. Their entrance into the subject was inauthentic to begin with. It's not authentic. Everything I'm talking about, because you were bored with one thing and then you find something to stimulate you, doesn't mean an authentic interest in the subject at all. You're picking it up as a Distraction as a plaything, as a curiosity. So that doesn't convince me, you know, Then what you do is you plateau, right? And you don't look at it as something that's having a spiritual, You know, input into your life at all. It's just more information to be gathered. It's just something to distract you from the mediocrity that you were involved in the first place and maybe to impress people, you know, at the barbecue or whatever. But then at the end of the day, in aggregate, you find that these people happily plateau. They learn all the right phrases, they wear a different type of T shirt, you know, but they plateau. They're not evolving. And at some point, some of them, not all even give up and, and go back to the world because this was only a temporary place. The isolation from the norm ends up saying to them, you know, you're, you're, you'd be better off back amongst the normies, you know, amongst the sheep. And this is exactly what many of them do. And they even look back and regret these excursions into the woo woo, right. They actually knock themselves on the head as a. Oh, I got caught up in that. But now I'm back to normality again, so much better. But what I'm really trying to say is that they haven't progressed to the next level of the subject that you're talking about, right. And the next level above that. So that your interest in the subject is there for re. Reinvigorated. And you find this across the board and sometimes you don't see it because, you know, they can keep up a masquerade, some sort of camouflage, but actually when you start looking at the content, what they talk about, it becomes much, much more mediocre over time and they slip back into banalities. You know, it takes some real courage and also enthusiasm, you know, to pursue this conspiracy subject. It has its own lineaments, really, and, and also to do so without becoming completely paranoid. There's also the danger there, of course, you know. Joel 01:27:26.730 - 01:27:42.010 Yeah. And I think the safety net from paranoia is like simultaneously becoming someone of value and building something meaningful and extricating that inner meaning and inner creation alongside, I guess, that deeper study. Michael 01:27:45.450 - 01:29:03.430 That's right, that's right. You've got to have a different impetus than just let me take a vacation from the utter boredom of my normal existence. That is, you know, the affluence of our world has made it possible for me to jump through those hoops and quickly arrive at that status. But then the boredom sets in. It's just the way the human being is. And so you, you make these excursions and sadly, there's just so many people like that into this subject and they don't, for me, they don't qualify at all. So I'm not interested what they say really, or what they're about. I know what's happening. It's a temporary sort of excursion. You know, it has, it comes with certain bells and whistles that, it's a wonderful fanfare and all of that. But the likelihood of them staying the course, you know, it's like learning a musical instrument up to a very high level or anything like that. That's going to be only a very, very rare few. So I try to stick to those guys who have progressed in that way and whose works are of great quality, and you'll find that they become less and less as time goes by. And the other, the other type, you know, they go their own way. Yerasimos 01:29:05.270 - 01:29:05.750 Yeah. David 01:29:06.870 - 01:34:21.130 David, I was just going to say, I, I, I really like the guys that even though they have seen the darkest of the dark and have been exposing this stuff, I think guys like G. Edward Griffin or, you know, guys like Michael or other guys, there's only a few, actually. I don't have a whole bunch. There's a few who have just stayed themselves. They didn't change. They didn't. Because I've, I've had friends of mine who worked in that conspiracy world and they went down into the toilets psychologically. They got into all kinds of problems and, you know, drugs and alcohol and divorces and just not just crazy stuff because they spiraled. It made them spiral. They didn't develop the fortitude psychologically to go with peering into the darkness. Right. And what Michael is highlighting there is super crucial for any pursuit of knowledge. It's just so unique when it comes to the subject of studying human evil. That's what conspiracy is, guys. It's not just who killed jfk? Like, it's not the only. It's, we're seeing signs of decay and corruption and evil. Well, what's the origin? Well, we're studying human evil. This means you need to study psychology. You need to look at yourself. And I think the thing that scares people the most about that subject is not just that there's high tables of criminal cabals running things and ruining things. It's that they're terrified of their own potential for that. They're terrified of the fact that this is an indictment against the human race in a way that they have to confront and we have to find A way to prepare it. Right? So to, to learn great truths. This is the message from the ancient wisdom. To learn great truths, you must be ready for it. You must be worthy of it. Isn't that all the myths, all the lore, even Indiana Jones and the Lost Crusade, when the, they have to be worthy of finding the Grail. You can't just have any Joe Schmo go and stumble over it. You know, it's like, it's like Aladdin's cave. You gotta find the guy who's right for it, that's gonna find that truth. Some of those true, the truths we talk about are not for the masses and they're not for the faint of heart at all. You know, we're talking about missing children and the, that goes on like this isn't for people that are like Michael saying they're tourists. Okay. Nothing wrong with taking a peek in the window and going okay and then moving on. But unfortunately some of the tourists in this industry come in and start to become these big multi million follower accounts that are then the soothsayers of the entire thing. And then anybody that is curious is going to come in and hear them first. And they're not going to come in here Michael Cesarian talk. They're not going to come in here and read Dr. John Coleman. They're not going to find the gems that, you know, take a while and when I find the reason. I loved always getting references from Michael when he would list names. First of all, I love the fact, Michael, that you always gave the credit and you always emphasized it and you taught me to be like, I learned that from you. That you take that time to show the reverence to the people that did do the work and did go through the darkness and did come out and did try to warn and you know, and you, you are the, the giants that you stand upon. You do solid reverence to what they're doing and you don't chop their ideas up and then claim them as your own. Like it's, it's something that goes on too much. And so you're seeing untrained minds on people that don't have the fortitude, the courage, the heroism within themselves that are confronting Sauron and the, you know, the crystal ball. And they're just not equipped for it. They don't have the, they don't have the resources to deal with it. It's like if I handed a white belt a complicated flying triangle or something. There's just zero. It's, there's no benefit. It's A waste of doing it. They're not at that level. You have to earn that skill level. You have to earn that entrance. And I've always liked that because that again, goes back to that. You're guarding something special and sacred. And I think the truth operates like that as a principle. It guards viciously against people. They're going to come around and try to pretend and try to mess it up. And so that's why it's so hard. It's not that truth is just hard to find because there's a global conspiracy. The truth is hard to find because you have to be worthy of it. You have to be ready for it. You have to be conditioned for it. You have to be almost trained for it, you know, and when you come at it like that and you see the guys that have remained themselves. There some bugs in here. That's a bee w. Remained themselves and never betrayed themselves. And I still. I'll never forget one of the interviews I did with Ed Griffin on Unslaved. It was a few years ago. I think it was during the lockdowns. I don't know how old the guy is. You wouldn't notice. The guy's talking about some seriously dark. And you couldn't take that smile off his face if you tried. Does that tell you. That tells you this guy saw the darkness, recognized what was going on, but didn't let it beat him. Those are the people I look up to, the people that didn't get beaten up by the evil. Those are the true killers out there. Those are the true people that I look up to. Yerasimos 01:34:21.850 - 01:34:24.730 He's 95 right now, which is pretty wild. David 01:34:25.370 - 01:34:26.890 Come on. There's a few of them. Michael 01:34:26.890 - 01:34:27.250 Yeah. David 01:34:27.250 - 01:34:38.150 That's amazing. I want to be. I look up, I want to be like that one day. I want to be that guy that didn't become too jaded, but always kept it real and never betrayed myself in the process. That's what I'm hoping and praying for. Michael 01:34:38.790 - 01:34:39.190 Do you. Yerasimos 01:34:39.190 - 01:35:01.430 Do you find that it's an. Like, it's an inside game first, that the people that are built to. To explore some of these subjects? Like, when you're thinking about evil and darkness, like, do you feel like you have to be in touch with your potential for darkness in order to be exposed to some of this stuff and to see it and to understand it as opposed to just. Michael 01:35:02.040 - 01:35:02.320 I can't. Yerasimos 01:35:02.320 - 01:35:07.040 I can't look at that. I can't go down that road because it's like you can't see the potential within you. Michael 01:35:07.040 - 01:35:07.400 Not. Yerasimos 01:35:07.400 - 01:35:11.560 Not like the scale of it, but just the potential. I'm just curious your thoughts on that. David 01:35:12.760 - 01:35:18.120 Well, just real quick, if I may. I think maybe that's a part of it where you're seeing your potential. Michael 01:35:18.200 - 01:35:18.520 Right. David 01:35:18.520 - 01:36:38.579 Like, C.S. Lewis has some great writings on this about. By studying evil, you learn about your own propensity for evil, and then you can be good. You know, but for. I think there's another element to it. I think your humanity, your sense of justice. For me, that's what comes out in me. I don't look at, like when I'm studying some of these dark cults or what some of these rituals are all about, and what some of this weird that's going on or whatever, I. I don't sit there and go, oh, I'm wondering how this affects my propensity for evil. I feel like it's unimaginable to me that I could even be close to anything like that. So then what motivates me at that point is I need to see this ended. I need to see the light shone on this. I need to see the, the innocent victims in this case, you know, vindicated or, or justice has to be served. So I think maybe a strong sense of justice is what kind of helps carry you through that, as well as a recognition that, hey, if certain conditions present, if I allow myself to go far down that negative self trail or that abusive trail, that self. Abusive trail, maybe I could end up, you know, somewhere in this ballpark. I think it's a spectrum. But for me, it was always a strong sense of justice that just went, oh, you're not doing that shit on my planet, man. I have to fight. I have to fight back. I can't sit back and do nothing. You know, that's what really motivated me personally. Yeah,. Joel 01:36:40.500 - 01:36:41.460 Michael, Michael. Michael 01:36:41.860 - 01:39:40.790 Oh, yes, I agree 100% with that. We're guests. Think of, you know, being a guest in somebody's mansion. Guests of a hotel, you don't trash the place. And you can even go one step further, which is to leave it in a better condition as when you found it. It's just a simple duty of respect and gratitude to existence, to life. It may be the last thing you're able to do. I've always been fascinated with Origins of Evil. That was the subject of my very first book, and I've never had to really amend it. Strangely, the thesis that was put down there, for many reasons I still believe. I don't think it was weak. I didn't think it was weak at the time it started to be panned in 2002 early into book form. And I never really had to change it. If there's changes, they're just totally superficial. They don't affect the main theme. So that's kicked off my career that I was the first one to look into the Origins of Evil. I still don't even see a writer today doing that. You know, I didn't want to have to say the last word on it. By all means. I thought I would be kicking off a subject that would gain a lot of traction in this movement. But it didn't. It really didn't. That's very, very curious. My answer for it is because people are just pathologically anti psychological. That's the reason. And so they'd rather get. Just go for a superficial thing or again the, the talismanic term, genes, DNA, you know, all of that. They'd rather stick to some paradigm like that. Any, in fact, anything. Anything and everything except psychology. This is my answer for that. Because you would have thought that it would have gained more traction than this and it absolutely hasn't. It's no different today than it was, you know, in 2002 when I wrote that book. We've seen absolutely no difference or no progress at all. If anything, there's even been regression in this. So I'm just unique, you know, just, you know, on an island with that. Just keep on doing it. And as I think it's really hurt my career actually. But there's nothing that can be done about that. Once you're passionate about a subject and you realize the value of it, you just have to continue no matter what, you go for the long haul. But of course I do observe the fact that why are these answers that even from prehistoric times they fit, they explain a great deal. So that's disheartening to see that formulas which could be applied to human evil and I think are really, really enlightening just have not been picked up, you know, it's extraordinary. David 01:39:43.430 - 01:41:15.610 Well, that talk, Origins of Evil, one of those. One of my favorites by the way. And I think that it's still one of the. There's just so many good ones. But what a question. I love that question too. That's what got me. It was like. It was the Origins of Evil. Like, yeah, what. Why do people want to go out and just murder people and do all this stuff? And then what about the self evil? And then the depth we've gone into, we're getting into adultism, the raising of children, psychology of the mother and the father and the positive and the negative and the somatic and the, and like it just opens up a whole thing to me. It's the most fascinating journey anybody's going to go on. Don't be worried about being afraid of the dark or anything. You just get into the dark and start looking around and put those glasses on and you'll start seeing some stuff and it's going to have more positive effects on you to look at this question than it is negative. But I think people have a knee jerk reaction of oh, that's kind of getting a little too personal, a little too close to home. I really just wanted it to be the Rockefellers. Like that would have been a great way to explain all the evil in the world or could just blame it all on Hitler or something and then, then we're done with it. Like that's easy. Or we can just say it's the Jews that did it all or this group over there, the Vatican that. It's like, nope, sorry, you got to read some sultanits. And where he's talking about human evil as a potential in everybody. So you know, we got to work within. Or you're not going to just expunge it by expunging a group of people that you think is in charge of all the evil. And so this becomes deeply related to the bigger existential questions. So again, we're back to the self. No matter which way you come in,. Yerasimos 01:41:15.610 - 01:41:38.250 You know, well, that's why I asked the question, you know, the socialist, the soul send quote, you know, that the potential for evil lives within, not the scale of it, but like that there is that potential. And if people know that there's that potential, they're more likely to not be like, not shun these subjects or not. Like I wouldn't, I can, I can't see that at all. Because they understand this core fact of, of being human. David 01:41:38.490 - 01:41:39.050 I don't know. Yerasimos 01:41:39.050 - 01:41:39.770 That's, that's. David 01:41:39.770 - 01:44:12.400 I was curious about that. So, yeah, no, it's huge. I mean that's why these great thinkers, they wrote one sentence or asked one question and it lasts right up to this moment. That's how you know, like that's value. That's, that's like, that's not fake. That wasn't AI. That's real. Like, you know what I mean? Ni. That's natural intelligence, somebody that can do that. And especially about questions that aren't just all fluffy, you know, and make you feel good. The best questions to explore, the ones that don't make you feel good. It's like the guy, the guys I bring again, my dojo again, I bring them in and I'm like, you're not here for a vacation. You're not here to just lie around. You're here to work and bleed and sweat and strain and push and find out where your limits are and learn about yourself and challenge yourself. And by doing it here, you're doing it mostly in here. Like the physical is just the reflection of this, right? So you know, life is hard, prepare for it accordingly. Don't try to like these leftists. They try to force the world to be good. Force the world. We're just doing a great show. The recent episode of Unslaved is just a must watch where we're getting into some of this. And it's like you can blame it all externally, all you want, all these effects, but in the end you're responsible for your own contribution, your own way of acting with that knowledge. Like, it's one thing to be given knowledge, it's another thing to like, how are you going to respond with it? What are you going to do to apply it to your life? And some people might look at you and go, well, what's applicable to my life about studying some of the evil conspiracies and how they rigged the banking system and what's going. And it's like, well, it's applicable to your life, number one, because maybe you're going to get a mortgage one day and you're going to want to know why you're paying through the nose on a practical level, but in another sense, don't you want to understand what motivates human beings or across the board, light, dark, in between? And don't you gain value from that process? And so that's why I think that that origins of evil is the number one question of time. And from that stems many other questions, especially when it's related to our experience as humans and what could be a more worthy pursuit. Even though I know it's dark and uncomfortable, but it's the uncomfortable things that make you stronger and better. So why do we run away from them so much? So my job in my role as a coach and what I do is to try to inspire people to gain the strength necessary to do that and find the results that come with it. But you can't force it. It's mostly rejected, but it's still worthy of a pursuit. Yerasimos 01:44:13.520 - 01:44:59.330 Yeah, for sure. Well, it's interesting, I look back to my acting training years ago. It was very consciousness based and psychological based. And so I really Appreciated that element where I pushed up against like, you know, biases within myself. You know, I was like, well, if I want to tell stories, I have to truly be able to tell the stories and get to know as many different parts of me. And I think the more I got to know those parts of me, I got to see that in others. So like, like if you don't know that you have the capacity to lie, cheat and steal, not saying you're going to do it, like you might not sniff it out in another person, but if you know that you have that potential and that capacity, you, you can, you might be able to see the signs and be able to, you know, defend yourself and be more immune to that. That's what I've noticed personally in my own life. I don't know. Michael 01:45:00.770 - 01:46:34.520 Well, the hidden hand that we're talking about has a hand in this very blind sighting, right? It ramps up personal anxiety by pulling the rug, by creating conditions of want and lack, and also by flooding the mind with just so much stimuli that you freeze. Remember we talked, we started talking about their role in all of this and how people are unaware of it, right? This is the hand that we're talking about. I think people all have a will to meaning and a will toward truth. But this hidden hand of control which we talked about earlier is always at work. So it's a combination of them flooding your mind to freeze the mind with so much stimuli that you just can't think anymore. And at the same time traumatizing you on this and that level. And therefore you're so overwhelmed by all of this that your focus narrows, right? It's called monodiasm. Your focus now is on your own personal survival on some sort of limbic, you know, level. And the inner discomfort that you just simply can't make it worse for yourself by bringing onto your being more anxiety by then looking into these corners. Joel 01:46:35.240 - 01:46:35.800 Yeah. Michael 01:46:35.800 - 01:49:12.720 So this is why, there's reasons why the mass mind can't fathom this and has a knee jerk reaction against it. And then there's another technique they use as well which is just ramped up over the decades. Give it, give some of these teachings to them in a sort of drip feed way, in a watered down way through your ancient aliens type programs or coast to coast or something along those lines, right? And then you start getting this history channel dipping in and there's just a little salting, right. Of the conspiratorial thing. Not enough to really open your eyes, but enough to titillate those people who even amongst the condition that I just spoke of still maintain an interest. Not enough to go to in the big way, but they do have this still craving to know. Well then in comes this, in comes the Hollywood, in comes the Netflix. And it's very cunningly done, right? And so they pacify that instinct. And so what you do is you get a big demographic of people who actually do have, even despite their material and psychic condition, a genuine hankering for the alternative knowledge. But what they don't realize is that they've already been preempted. Right? The wolf has already understood this. The vultures perched high up, watching, watching from above already know this. And they've already made arrangements to get you to, you know, watch the X Files, you know, or something along those lines. They've, they, they've been able to check all these boxes and you think that. And then maybe you become addicted to this without realizing that it's been homeopathically designed and it's not all for the good. And then they put some Wally, right, some schmuck like George Tsukalos or George Nori or whoever, right, to just give all the guff, they look eccentric. They are eccentric. But no, that's okay. They're laughing in your face. They're the clowns, right? Total clowns. And this goes for almost all these other hosts, but they have, they will spoon feed like a little baby, you know, because they know you're banging your spoon. You do have this interest. So we'll give you a few grays, a few bug eyed aliens, a little about Roswell and some goose, goose ghosts and goblins, you know, the paranormal. David 01:49:12.720 - 01:49:13.120 Yeah. Michael 01:49:15.200 - 01:51:27.800 And this will then satisfy this kind of hunger, you know, for the housewife, for the normy, it's like, oh, wow, yeah, I got my little fix there. It's fascinating. But what they do, what, what they've done is they've pacified you with all of this and they're very sensitive to, to what's going on. Now they're doing it again, claiming that there's going to be more and more disclosures. They've wheeled it out again and it will satisfy a lot of people and it'll, and by, you know, going towards it, you take your eyes off something else that's happening. They, they have all this is a box of tricks that's been used since the media began, really. And so you got to discern that from the genuine interest, you know, so this is why I'm always citing the greats again, you know, the ones who you will, who really not do this topically, but substantiate on a deeper level. Make a lot of references to them in my books and websites and in podcasts all the time, you know, because I'm very, very wary of this, where they, they tantalize you like Shangalis. Knowing that there is a genuine need to know about paranormal subjects. And a lot of it is from the Vatican. A lot of this is funded from the Vatican. For instance, horror movies, paranormal movies, some of the really, even big ones, the really big spectaculars of say, a George Lucas level or Christopher Nolan level. You'd be amazed who's behind that. You'd be amazed who's behind these slasher movies, the blood and gore films that became very, very trendy. You'd be just absolutely amazed who's actually funding that and the reasons why. But, but they look down at the human race as if they're just, you know, really a sheep and can be easily corralled and easily controlled with this taking your genuine interest, but using it actually in the long run against you. It's fascinating. Yerasimos 01:51:27.870 - 01:51:29.070 You want to add anything to that, David? David 01:51:30.510 - 01:54:43.240 No, I mean, it's a warning everybody needs to hear. It's. It's important. I mean, I might have a little bit of a slightly different spin on certain aspects of what's coming out right now, but that's a very tangled web to get into. There's very specific things and it doesn't in any way change the nature of that warning, which is extremely important that you have to always understand that there is that force that is working to manage what you know and what you don't know and to keep you in anxiety and to keep you wanting more, to keep you on this gravy train. And, you know, there's only, the only other element that you bring in is the deep seated fear of some of these people that do hold some of these secrets. Like even some of the guys that maybe not be part of some Vatican group or some occult society, but that might just be working. You know, they're the guys in the projects, they're the guys working in these military projects or whatever who want to come out with some information, but are the ones being barred and being smeared and whatever. Like some of these guys have written books, some of these guys have done off the cuff stuff, and some of them have been charlatans and some of them, I think, have been very genuine. You think of guys like Bob Dean and some of these other dudes, right, who came from within and there's better writers out there, like you know, Brinsley, laporte, Trench, and you know, some of these other guys that could tell you about the subject. And you don't even need the government to be coming out disclosing anything, right? Because we've already got it in the public. We already know we already got good information. But there could be a desire amongst some of those brass, not necessarily for a, a nefarious agenda that might come from the high table, but say they're a few steps below and they've got classified information, they might sit there and just have a genuine concern of the, the level of immaturity of the human psyche that you just, they per, they actually believe. I had some of them tell me to my face, you know, I spoke to Paul Hellier, former Defense Minister of Canada. The guy was Deputy PM in Canada. I did many private talks with him and he told me, he's like, I came to a point where I, I knew what was going on with that subject. And I decided, well, I don't want to be a part of this, you know, holding back this information from the public, at least what the government knows, right? And so he went with that in his later years to say, I want to get this out what I know. And he went to his deathbed with what he said, but he said, for the longest time I was on the other team, as most guys in the military world are, that we've observed human psychology on every level and we firmly believe humanity can't handle it. It'll literally tear our civilization apart. It'll tear our world apart. You're not going to go tell radical Islam or Islam in general, or Christianity in general, or most of these religions who make up billions of minds on the planet about this, because to them it directly confronts their entire worldview. How are you going to do that? Also, how are you going to tell people that the powers that be, the government, the media, the institutions have been lying to you for 70 plus or more years just in this, this subject, right? So they, there's that other element that there's a belief at certain levels of the, of the totem pole that they don't believe you can handle it. Joel 01:54:43.240 - 01:54:46.560 And then why do they care all of a sudden about what you can handle? David 01:54:46.960 - 01:54:47.560 What's that? Joel 01:54:47.560 - 01:54:50.080 Why do they care all of a sudden about what you can handle? David 01:54:50.640 - 01:56:18.830 Because they don't want to be the one that's cleaning up the mess. Look at Covid. Everybody was all stocking up on toilet paper. The panic that was about a virus that probably wasn't even what they Said it was. This is a megaton nuclear bomb. That that's how they. I'm not saying I agree with them. Like, I'm obviously on. I think we should handle the truth. What is that old statement? If the truth should kill them, let them die. I'm more on that camp. But I can. You can understand a paranoid military mind that would say, yeah, you guys, there's no way. After all the experiments we did and figured out how your psychological psychology works, after all the test cases we have, all the ASH experiments, all the everything, after you've reacted this way, there's no way we're going to tell you this. And then they might also be getting it from the real high table that's playing the game Michael's talking about at that higher level. So I just look at it a little bit more. Like there's stages to it. And I also don't believe everybody's evil. I don't believe everybody in power. I don't believe everybody in these institutions is just pure, unadulterated evil that is rigging the game against humanity. I just don't go there. But are there forces that. That are on that side? Absolutely. I just don't think it's everybody. And I think truth has an energy of its own. So maybe I'm a bit more positive on that front, but I could be wrong. But that's just my. That's just my take on it. Yeah. Yerasimos 01:56:20.670 - 01:56:30.830 Gentlemen, thank you so much for coming on for episode 300. Do you have any closing statements, final messages to are here for the truth of the audience? Michael 01:56:32.910 - 01:56:45.020 No, just thanks a lot for having us on and for continuing the work that you're doing. I really, really appreciate it and thank you for honoring us by this interview. You know, it's been great,. David 01:56:47.340 - 01:57:17.980 Guys. Just thank you so much and for everything you guys have done and brought us on the show and constantly plugging what we do. We really appreciate it and we'll definitely come back again and wish you guys all the best and. And a great chat as always. Just always good to talk to people that are curious minds. That's what I love. Just stay curious. That's what's beautiful about it. And if people stay curious, the curiosity will lead them. And your guys are doing a great show to facilitate that. So keep doing it. Well done. Joel 01:57:18.380 - 01:57:41.600 Appreciate you guys. Definitely the apropos way to round out episode 300 of here for the truth. And if there are curious minds that want to be satiated, unslaved.com is definitely a good place to start. And to end probably. So yeah. Anything else you guys want to share in terms of things happening coming up or any of that sort? David 01:57:42.640 - 01:58:19.590 Yeah, real quick. I'll just give a quick. It's more of a technical update. We've had Unslave going for a long time and right now with my team, we're working on completely revamping the site, the back end, the organization, the just the layout and everything. So it's just going to get a lot easier to work with and totally up to date with just bombshell content coming out every single week. These latest the episodes we got rolling out right now are just top shelf. So we're constantly trying to revamp the whole system. So stay tuned for Unslave. Some really big things are coming and look forward to it. Joel 01:58:19.910 - 01:58:25.590 Awesome, man. Sounds good. David, Michael, thanks once again, everyone else, thanks for listening. Take care. David 01:58:26.390 - 01:58:27.270 Cheers, guys.