Joel & Yerasimos Spiritual Lies

Yerasimos 00:00:00.160 - 00:00:00.480 Foreign. Joel 00:00:03.360 - 00:02:05.170 What's up, everybody? Welcome to the Here for the Truth podcast. I'm Joel Rafidi. I've got my co host Erasmus with me as always, and today it's the two of us riffing and wrapping on this subject of authentic spirituality. Obviously, you hear the word spiritual and spirituality and there might be so many immediate connotations or ideas or images that come to mind, especially being inundated through social media and everyone having a voice, the multitude of influencers, and everyone basically sharing, I guess, their part in what spirituality is. And so here we are, we're going to do the same thing right now in our own way. And this is actually a topic that has been, I think, very key to the podcast in many ways. I think we've challenged what mainstream spirituality is. And I kind of want to set the tone by sharing a working definition in the Here for the Truth voice and lens of authentic spirituality, and then we'll get into this. So authentic spirituality is the lifelong work of knowing who you actually are and living in congruence with what you find. It's embodied. The body, the emotions, the mind, and the will are vehicles of the work. It moves towards wholeness over perfection, which means the shadow is integrated and the full spectrum of who you are is welcomed. Discernment is held as sacred. Judgment, intuition, anger, and drive. These are faculties to refine, not surrender to a teacher, a doctrine, or a system. Its measure is the capacity to hold the full range of human experience and to navigate the opposites within consciously. Joy and grief, stillness and rage, certainty and confusion, et cetera. Its principle is as within, so without. So the outer life is the mirror of the inner one. And the work ultimately, is the closing of the gap between the two. So how does that land for you, bro? And let's get into it. Yerasimos 00:02:05.810 - 00:02:25.140 Well, yeah, obviously it lands. Lands very well with me. I mean, it's been part of my own journey as well with that. And, you know, even just part of that is something that one of my mentors and teachers, Dr. House, so it's Hal Stone, said to me when I asked him a question, I was like, well, what is enlightenment? You hear this term, enlightenment all the time. Joel 00:02:25.220 - 00:02:25.660 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:02:25.660 - 00:02:44.280 And he just answered back to me and he was like, I think it's the ability to navigate opposites, which again, speaks to everything you said about discernment, about integration. So. So, yeah, we can get into more of that too. But I'm really curious for you. Like, you know, like, you've been on your own path, you've been on your own Journey, like, when did the,. Joel 00:02:46.040 - 00:02:46.320 You. Yerasimos 00:02:46.320 - 00:03:04.200 Could say mainstream version. It's also like alternative, but like, spirituality has its own thing. Yeah. Like when, when did it crack for you? Like, what path did you go on initially? And then, like, when did you realize, oh, maybe this isn't the whole truth or maybe this is limiting me in some way? Joel 00:03:05.000 - 00:08:03.580 Yeah. So it's, it's a story I've shared here and there. And ultimately, like, we're talking about the tension of opposites and we're talking about polarity and there's, there's good and bad that comes from each aspect of the journey. So for me, 2015 was definitely a big turning point. Particularly the end of 2014, I would say is the closest I've kind of come to that initial dark Night of the Soul experience that, you know, many seem to talk about and share. So I released my first major album, you know, in my career as a conscious hip hop artist. I spent so much time curating this body of work, so much energy towards it, and I was like, this is the thing. This is the moment that I'm going to kind of catapult Release that in September 2014. And my first major relationship of six and a half years kind of ended around the same time. And, you know, the album went out there and it did its thing, but it wasn't what my. My mind was like envisioning about. You know, I'm gonna be a Grammy award winning hip hop artist and go on tour and have all these massive features and all the rest of it. And so, like, in the aftermath of those two things, I kind of had a moment where I really broke down and I found myself riddled with deep anxiety and insecurities and uncertainty and all the rest of it. And at that time I was kind of introduced to the work of Eckhart Tolle, the Power of now and A New Earth. And it was very apropos for me to come into the Power of Now teachings in that state of deep anxiety and insecurity and uncertainty where I kind of really was wanting relief from all of that. So I've read Power of now and I applied the principles and the teachings and I really took it to heart. And I really lived in what felt like, you could say to me, it felt like an enlightened state for a period of time. It felt like I was dissolved and free from the burdens of, you know, these things I was experiencing. And so that was the philosophy that I really took on board for a long period of time. I really took to heart just Living in the moment, living in the present, observing my mind when it would want to drift to, justifying or rationalizing or drifts of the future or drifts. Drifts of the past. And I found. I decided that the most conscious and spiritual thing that I could do was, is like, basically observe those states and then try to come back to presence and stillness as often as possible. And so I did that. And I lived that way for probably four and a half, five years as the primary philosophy in my life. And then obviously, I met my wife, Alyssa. We had our first baby, Valley, born in 2018. The responsibilities of my life started piling up, and I just found that I could no longer hold the tension of my life. I found that I was quite psychologically flaccid, in a sense. And the real world issues that would be coming at me, the real world responsibilities, the real world anger, even from, you know, my wife, who was, I think, definitely feeling into, like, this. This weakness in consciousness that was starting to become more obvious. And so that's when things really cracked for me. It was around and end of, I would say, 2019, early 2020, where it was like, holy crap, I can't hold this. And that's when I came into unslaved. You know, I came into deeper self responsibility. I came into the work of self esteem. I really took Michael Tassarian's idea of zero tolerance for the lie. It's a heart. And I basically went on this sabbatical, craving equilibrium over anything else, you know, and building my capacity to learn and hold more. And like, all of that might sound like, you know, me simply degrading that Eckhart Tolle path. And it's not because I got real world value from that as well. I was introduced to, like, foundational ideas. I read the Bhagavad Gita. I read the Dao de Jing. I did become more stoic in sense. It was. It was a stepping stone on. On that journey, which was valuable. And again, that deeper integration happens over time. It doesn't happen in the moment. So, yeah, that's a bit about the early journey for me when it comes to New Age spirituality and how discernment became refined over time and in particular as well. Man, it's like when 2020 came around and I was living in Australia and we were up against lockdowns and mandates and all the rest of it, like, that demanded real righteous anger from me in order to protect my family and protect myself and set appropriate boundaries. And so that timing was also apropos in the in the sense that that was called forward in me. And I think people know that story and how that kind of moved forward. And I was really able to tap into that in a powerful way where I. Whereas I don't think I would have been able to if I kept primary this idea of, obviously, peace and love at all costs. Yerasimos 00:08:05.500 - 00:11:21.320 Yeah, bro, thanks for sharing that. It's interesting too, man, because it's like, we talk about spirituality, but there's always been this, like, duality. I'm not real, I'm not religious. I'm spiritual. So you have, like, religion and spirituality. Obviously, you know, you grew up Johava's Witness, and that shifted at a certain point in your life. I grew up Greek Orthodox, and it was like, okay, I just go to church. I do my thing. It's a ritual. Like, it doesn't. It doesn't feel. It feels like something you do as opposed to something that's coming from deeper within or almost as a sense that I chose this, you know, which is. I've gotten. I've gotten into some, you know, back and forth with my mom over the years because, you know, we've had different life experiences and. And we're into different things from a quote, unquote, spiritual standpoint. And so I went through my own journey, like, in college, like, you know, reading books on atheism. And then I was like, oh, am I atheist? Am I agnostic? Like, yeah. But I also feel connected to something deeper. You know, I think spending time in nature, like, really starting to spend time in nature. And I didn't grow up it. I didn't grow up that way outside of going to, like, I don't know, beaches or the occasional resort or going to Greece, but actually going hiking and spending time and maybe even camping and connecting to something and being like, wow, there's something here. You know, even studying abroad in Australia, going to the Blue Mountains and going these different places. Like, I just felt something deepening in. Within me. But, you know, at that point it was just like, okay, nature. I don't know what God is. I don't know what. What my. What's deeper within me. But the New age stuff, like, the more. I don't know. I don't know if. Yeah, the new age stuff was something that had some appeal, but first. But because my first foray into deeper personal development work was more psychospiritual, it framed things in a certain way. Like, I think, again, I've shared this before, but I. I got in my mid-20s, I got exposed to the work of doctors Hal and Sidra Stone. They created something called voice dialogue, the psychology of selves and the aware ego. And it's a form of parks work. And so, you know, through them, I learned even, like, what you see out there in the world is spirituality. Or these people that, like, present themselves in a certain way, wear the clothes, speak a certain language, sound a certain way. Like, to them, it's like, that's just the spiritual self, you know, like LO s or spiritual subpersonality. Like, a lot of these people, they're trading one cluster of. Of parts of them for another. Like, you know, they maybe have an experience. They have a. A religious experience, or they go take ayahuasca or they go to the east, and it's like, then they start kind of adopting these parts and presenting themselves in a certain way. So that's how I kind of looked at it. So I got introduced early on to that dance, to this duality where it's like, okay, cool. Am I catching myself sometimes saying, oh, everything happens for a reason. It's like, wait, why did I just say that? Did I just say it because I've heard it so many times before? Like, do I really mean it? Like, did I really work through something, move through something within myself? Do I allow myself to go through it, allow myself to feel it? Or am I just, like, using these little spiritual platitudes and these sayings in order to disconnect from deeper parts of me, to, like, face the depth within me, those kinds of things? You know what I'm saying? Joel 00:11:21.320 - 00:12:35.110 Yeah, absolutely. I know what you're saying, man. And, you know, it's interesting because it brings to mind, like, even before I knew, like, Nathaniel Brandon's definition of self esteem, which is basically appropriateness for reality, I always had that craving and that yearning. And when I got to that point where I was like, this philosophy no longer feels appropriate for the reality that I'm living. It's like you yearn and you seek for something else as well. And, like, that's the decision that ultimately I made. And while you formally, I think, really introduced me to parts work unknowingly at the time, you know, during my study when I realized I need something new, my study of the tarot through Michael Tasserian's Mystery School really gave me that foundational knowledge as well. And it's interesting because on the forefront, people might hear tarot and think, that's the most New Age fig that you could possibly imagine yet. The deeper, archetypal, sacred, ancient truth of the tarot. Is so far from that. It is a study of parts work. Each One of those 78 cards have gifts and shadows, and it's built upon, you know, Carl Jung's work is built upon the tarot in terms of the quadrants, the elements, the opposites that exist, you know, and so if you look. Yerasimos 00:12:35.110 - 00:12:54.450 At the zodiac, if you look at the zodiac in the same way too, like, all this stuff is representing different aspects of the human condition. You know, the Greek gods, you know, like, how many times have I mentioned gods and every man gods and every woman by a Jungian analyst, Gene Bolin. You know, it's like each God represented a different aspect of the human condition. Joel 00:12:55.410 - 00:13:43.160 Exactly. And like, what is the human condition? What is the study of psychology if not the study of the archetypes within ultimately, you know, like these living archetypes that are so pervasive within the entire cosmos within and without. And so that was a big stepping stone on my journey to real integration and real embodiment as well, is just literally the contemplation of archetypes and realizing that for every gift that an archetype presents, it also creates and casts a shadow in its wake which needs to be observed. So, like, we, as we move forward and progress and strive towards more of one quality. What is the essential cost that is being accrued in that process as well, you know, which is a super powerful thing? Yerasimos 00:13:43.880 - 00:14:35.130 Well, what's also cool is that, like, obviously we're into human design, we're into astrology. There is some sort of blueprint. You know, we come into this world unique. And so some of us may inherently lean towards or embody certain archetypes that are closer to us, that are part of our life journey, you know, and so, but again, we can over identify. We over identify with these parts, we over identify with these archetypes. And then what is lost on the other side? What needs to be integrated? I think that's what's important. And even just from a parts work standpoint, like you said, like, oh, even before I even knew parts work, I learned the tarot. Yeah, but even just in our language, how many times you're like 15 years old and you're like, well, a part of me wants to go to the party, but another party wants to stay home. A part of me wants to go away to college, but another part of me wants to stay home and be with my parents. Joel 00:14:35.450 - 00:14:37.610 So it's like, it's confusing growing up. Yerasimos 00:14:38.250 - 00:14:38.890 What'd you say? Joel 00:14:38.890 - 00:14:41.050 It's confusing growing up without that knowledge. Yerasimos 00:14:41.370 - 00:15:30.110 Well, yeah, but. And we, there's something we know within us, that there are different pulling internal forces within us that want us to go in one direction versus the other. And so again, to have more of this framework and more of this understanding that it's, it's inherent within the architecture of the psyche. Exactly that this is. Okay, I'm human. Now we can get into all the reasons why. I know Michael's done research and like terrestrial traumas that maybe cause certain splits, but the reality is there is this element of multiple personalities within human beings. Now some have the disorder, others have awareness of, like, oh, wow, like, what just happened? I was driving and I was fine and someone cut me off and I went insane. Yeah, like, what just happened? You know? Joel 00:15:30.110 - 00:17:08.860 Yeah, totally. And again, like, because through that journey with the tarot, like, I realized that self knowledge has to be primary. And so I've shared this story as well before. But each one of us through the tarot has a specific beacon which is basically a card of the minor arcana that represents the 10 day period we were born to. And in my journey and study of the tarot, I discovered that my personal deacon is the seven of cups. And I remember the precise moment I read the definition of the seven of cups and I read the gifts and it says things like imagination, uniqueness, sensitivity, care, kindness, charity, charity, literary gifts, understanding, creativity. And I was like, wow, you know, these are the gifts that have always been mirrored to me growing up as things that are like, I knew this, these things to be true about myself. And then you read, you know, the negative definitions of this card. You know, poor, poor choices, you know, misjudging people, situations, opportunities, altruism, being easily led, fooled, exploited, fantasy, you know, wishing the impossible things of that nature. And I was like, that really shone a light on things which I hadn't explored on a deeper level yet. I could sense with things that kept coming up in my life, in my relationships, in the way that I dealt with reality. So, you know, this journey of self study, even though on the forefront, you know, whether it's human design or tarot or whatever it might be, you know, or astrology, even when this study is done genuinely and appropriately, it is a step forward into this world of authentic spirituality. Now, that being said, rise above the herd. Module 3. We use the term new cage. And that module is called what's the new Cage? Yerasimos 00:17:08.860 - 00:17:12.300 Deprogramming. And that's right. Joel 00:17:12.940 - 00:17:18.580 So let's talk about that cage and how does it sell itself as liberation? Yerasimos 00:17:20.020 - 00:17:56.680 Well, I think you spoke to it earlier to some degree based on your experiences that, like, as a human being, there's almost this desire or conditioning to go, okay, all the good things and the way to be live here. And I need to embody those and everything else. I'm just gonna be like, put earmuffs on. La, la, la. No, that doesn't exist. I just want to focus on the positive things. I want to focus on the love. I want to focus on the light. You know, I don't want to realize the fact that there is this dualistic nature and that there is light and darkness within. And I want to just focus on that. Joel 00:17:56.920 - 00:17:57.400 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:17:57.400 - 00:18:03.800 You know what I mean? Like, and so it's like, on some level, it's like, well, you don't need. You could just. You can cut that thing called the shadow now. Joel 00:18:05.640 - 00:18:07.000 It fosters escapism. Yerasimos 00:18:08.530 - 00:18:34.850 I mean, I think it definitely fosters escapism because I think people experience it. You've experienced it in your ways in your life. I've experienced it in the ways in my life. And it's like. Well, no, it moves away from becoming more whole, becoming more integrated. And it pushes you more into this place of being more split, being more disconnected, and in a sense, being disassociated from the reality of your being, from your life force, from your blood, from your cells, from your bones. Joel 00:18:35.410 - 00:18:35.610 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:18:35.610 - 00:19:06.810 Which is why authentic spirituality needs to include the body. Now, again, we say New Age or New Cage, like we're using this umbrella term. Obviously, there's some people out there that you would look at and go, well, you look more New Age. But they're also doing deep work. So I don't want to. I don't want to. I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. But the reality is, is that any system or philosophy that is telling you to just cut off huge parts and ignore huge parts of who you are, you. Yeah, from my opinion, I'd say run the other way totally. Joel 00:19:06.970 - 00:20:45.760 And, you know, the roots of that cutting off really is this whole idea of aestheticism, which, in my opinion, and something that we teach inside Wrath is one of the two key pillars which New Age spirituality is. Is born. Born upon, you know. And so how does the aesthetic act? How does the aesthetic move through the world? It's literally cutting off their humanness, even in a physical sense, in order to try attain a more heavenly or a more divine state. Whether that is extreme fasting, extreme celibacy, you know, following any kind of body adjustment, shifting in order to, like, you know, present as the more aesthetic and Hence the more spiritual kind. So this stuff also comes forward in a physical way, not just a psychological way when one goes down this path. So anything that you know, speaks into in terms of like this idea of aestheticism and essentially self punishment, self abnegation in the search for a greater spiritual advanced godly state. Can you ever really achieve more godliness by starving oneself, by withdrawing from humanity, Even the idea of, you know, the monk or the aesthetic completely withdrawing from the world and sitting on the mountaintop for years on end, rejecting the world? You know, is this aesthetic, is this, is this aestheticism expressed? Yerasimos 00:20:46.320 - 00:21:20.910 Yeah, I feel like we pronounce the words differently. Like ascetic, ascetic, aesthetic, aesthetic, asceticism, asceticism. Like I don't know anyways, but like, yeah, like I never was drawn toward the, towards the ascetic like that, that path. Like, like the idea of going off into like some ashram and disappearing off and living in a cave with flies running around me and meditating, like that just didn't appeal to me. Now I'm also not against people having experiences. Yeah, like go do the thing, sit on the mountaintop, meditate for 27 hours,. Joel 00:21:21.070 - 00:21:23.310 Go to Vipassana, don't talk for seven days. Yerasimos 00:21:23.630 - 00:22:22.270 I did a 10 day Vipassana over my birthday like 11 years ago. And it was a really. I kind of felt like I tapped into that inner monk, you know, that part of me where it was like I went, I did every single meditation, 10 hours a day. There was a walking path. I walked the path twice each way. Each time I sat in the same seat to eat my food. Know there was something that I enjoyed about the experience, but that felt very limiting to being human being on earth. And so again, there's also this element of disconnecting and looking at the body as this thing to like, you know, ignore. And yet our body is this vessel of, of information, this vessel, this warehouse that stores so much in our blood and our tissues, in our nervous system. And so this idea again, that comes from some of these philosophies, whether it's, you know, even Gnosticism, feeling like we live on a prison planet and we have a prison body, we need to escape this. Joel 00:22:22.430 - 00:22:22.870 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:22:22.870 - 00:22:31.870 You know, what does that do to the psyche of a person? Like when those are the base philosophies, how does that influence how you look at yourself, how you look at others and how you look at the world? Joel 00:22:32.030 - 00:25:00.720 Yeah, and that's kind of exactly where I was going, you know, the second pillar of Gnosticism, which you Know needs to be addressed as well. And you know, I know people tend to over. Over romanticize that word. And again, different definitions come to mind when people hear the term gnostic or Gnosticism. But at its root, it's this idea of rejecting the world and rejecting the body. It's treating the body as a prison for the soul and treating the earth as a prison for the body, essentially. And when that becomes a base pillar or a base philosophy in one's life, it is a slow erosion of selfhood that ultimately takes place. A slow erosion of self and as a result, the world in that. In that as well. And to me, this is also where even the concepts, New Age, New Age concepts of stilling the mind come into place, right? It's like this rejection of the mind, this rejection of the mind's tendency to want to wander and explore and think deeply and go in different directions and move to the past and moves the future and be this real fluid thing that's obviously doing its thing for a reason, right? So like when your mind is wandering into the future and thinking about future consequences of decisions I might. I might make now, or drifting to the past and feeling a bit of guilt or remorse for the way you might have acted, like maybe that's happening for a reason. It's not something that needs to be, again, cut off, at least in the intellectual sense. And even this whole idea of becoming nobody, which literally is the title of a Ram Dass book, like, can we just think about that for a second? Becoming nobody, like, is that a phrase that lands that way, that you actually want to live? Like, isn't that ultimately the removal of one's uniqueness, the removal of what makes you who you are. This whole idea of just returning to source and returning to pure consciousness, do we really want to strive towards that? And I know that we've discussed, sure, there may be some truth to the idea that we all emanate from the base source, yet we are the drop, right? As well as the ocean. And what is the unique state of that drop? And isn't that something that we want to refine? Maybe we have purpose, meaning. Maybe the. Maybe the great mythologists when they said each heart has, you know, its own blueprint and its own map printed upon it, Maybe that's something to yield and to take seriously as opposed to wanting that completely, you know, taken away and just the same as everyone else. Yerasimos 00:25:01.040 - 00:25:08.400 But even within what you just said, we're looking at duality. The drop in the ocean. And then you have people that hear one Part of it, and go, this is it. Joel 00:25:08.400 - 00:25:09.280 This is the truth. Yerasimos 00:25:09.280 - 00:26:19.620 And it's like, no, both can be true. How does one relate to. How does one connect to the other? And so, yes, you know, yeah, so it's. It's interesting. You know, we had a recent podcast with Topher, and he shared his journey. Very fascinating, interesting journey. And it was like, well, what are we here to learn? And he. He brought up the idea, like, we actually here on Earth to learn boundaries, to learn that separation. So, yes, we are in connected. We are interconnected, and yet we're in these bodies. There is separation inherent in that. And so how do you learn that? How do you fall in love with your body? How do you learn the depths of who you are? How do you understand your physiology and what's happening? How do you connect to your emotional life intrapersonally? And also how do you relate inter. Interpersonally with others? All this stuff is part of, like, the school of being here on Earth and figuring things out, like this idea that, like, oh, we're just all one. We're all dissolved into oneness. There's nothing else. I mean, it feels like a form of spiritual collectivism. Like, sacrifice who you are, and it's just like, just become part of this blob of oneness, you know? Joel 00:26:19.860 - 00:26:20.500 Totally. Yerasimos 00:26:20.500 - 00:26:53.300 And, yeah, just throw these out, these phrases out there, and you. You can see, you can hear it. Like, it's one thing to have a philosophical conversation that we're trying to have at the best of our ability, but you see those people out there that just, you know, they, like, heard something in, like, a course or. Or they had their mentor to them, and they just say it. Like, they just. There's, like, almost nothing behind it. It's like Babura one. There's no separation. Like, they just say these things, and you're like, well, you want to elaborate on that? And if you ask questions, sometimes you realize some of this shit is based on nothing. They don't even know how to explain it sometimes. Joel 00:26:53.300 - 00:27:46.020 No, exactly. There's no coherent foundation for some of these labels that we just take on and keep repeating. And. Yeah, I've shared that analogy before, that I think communism and collectivism and new age spirituality are really just the same thing in different contexts and different branches. One's geopolitical and one is, you know, supposedly spiritual. But I think ultimately they lead down the same road, which is becoming nobody, losing your uniqueness and being dissolved into the group, into the herd on some level. So, you know, other common, you know, new age spiritual you know, euphemisms, you are not. Your thoughts, don't judge, transcend the ego. Things that obviously can sound enlightened, I think, to the newcomer on the surface, but what's the harm underneath? And who benefits when real discernment gets shamed out of you by some of these quote unquote enlightened ideas? Yerasimos 00:27:47.780 - 00:27:53.900 Well, let's see who benefits? The, the ones that are pushing these ideologies tend to benefit. Joel 00:27:53.900 - 00:28:10.170 Rand told us, Rand told us very explicitly, who benefits when, you know, when you no longer speak your mind, when you give up your rationalizations, when you give up your own personal ability to, to think through things on a reasonable level. She told us explicitly. Yerasimos 00:28:10.250 - 00:29:25.890 But yeah, yeah, this is the people that, the manipulators out there, the, you know, so called spiritual folk. I mean, how often are we seeing, I mean over the last decades, just one new spiritual leader, one new person coming after and that's in the limelight, that is, that brought something to the world and that people have been following for decades that you just find out that they aren't who they present themselves to be. And part of it is because they aren't doing, I think in my opinion, unless there's some foundational, yeah, psychological issue, they're not doing this work. They're, they're buying into the projection field. They're cut off from themselves. They want to shun these, these darker parts of them. And what happens when you do that? They come out in demonic ways. That's the thing is when you repress these archetypes, when you repress these aspects of you in the name of spirituality, in the name of holiness, they, they don't go away. They come out in very twisted, dark ways. You know, on top of also the projection that many of these people, so even beyond the spiritual go into the like hardcore religious world. How many preachers, you know that like, are caught on the side of the road smoking crystal meth and having sex in a bathroom like. Joel 00:29:26.050 - 00:31:13.740 Yep. I mean, time and time again we keep seeing that these people that, you know, the collective puts on pedestals just have the deepest, darkest, most cobweb of written faucets out of anyone, you know. And so that's something interesting for us to observe for sure. But like for me, again, in the context of authentic spirituality, we're here reframing discernments and your ability to appropriately judge another person and reality as something sacred, as something that needs to be refined and, you know, enhanced over time through experience. Because otherwise what are you doing? If you come from this Baseline of everyone is worthy of your time and energy and your space and all the rest of it, with no filter to say, should I really let this person into the house, the metaphorical house of my sphere, of my psyche, of my mind, of my energy, then anyone can have at you. So authentic spirituality treats one's personal life force as sacred and that not everyone should have immediate access to that without appropriate discernment and appropriate judgment, that this is someone that can enhance the quality of my life. This is someone who isn't a spiritual thief, an energetic thief, a manipulator isn't going to steal my life force. Take my time, you know, walk me down the road towards hell. And that's necessary and that's important. So, like, very often, again, even on my own journey, I think I remember times where it was like I bypassed genuine discernments because of this overriding philosophy that I should view everyone as equal and everyone as spiritually worthy. Yerasimos 00:31:15.980 - 00:31:22.140 I feel you, brother. You know, I think the thing that always used to get me. I know you brought it up before, but, like, this idea of, like, the ego. Joel 00:31:22.850 - 00:31:23.210 Yep. Yerasimos 00:31:23.210 - 00:31:46.090 You know, get rid of the ego, annihilate the ego, transcend the ego, and I can only bring it back to what I know as a Greek. And I've said this on previous podcasts. Like, I say. When you say I in Greek, it means like, you know, I'm going to the store, blah, blah, blah. Joel 00:31:46.090 - 00:31:46.450 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:31:46.450 - 00:32:31.190 And so it's like, okay, so you want me to annihilate the eye? You know, this. This aspect of me that is like, you know, taking in the world, doing things like that, understands that I'm an eye. Like, let's get rid of the eye. Like, to me, that just felt ridiculous to me. Like, well, if I don't have an ego, then can I even do anything in my life? Can I. Can I make breakfast? Can I get on the computer to have a podcast with Joel? Can I go after the things that I want? So, again, it's like a language thing. And I understand semantically different people use the ego and that term in different ways, but I just don't see what benefit there is in transcending the individuality, the individual identity of the eye of you. Joel 00:32:31.430 - 00:33:11.960 Yeah. I mean, I see, like, the ego is like the psychological wrapper of your being. Like, it's what holds you in place. It's completely necessary. But, yeah, let's keep moving, moving through here. So spiritual bypassing. So John Wellwood coined this term in the 1980s, and he defined it as using Spiritual ideas to sidestep unresolved emotional and psychological material. So, yeah, let's talk about this even from our own personal experiences, then we will tap deeper into it. What's the most common form of this you see in the wild these days? And what of this have you been caught in. Yerasimos 00:33:12.180 - 00:33:12.340 In. Joel 00:33:12.340 - 00:33:13.060 In your life? Yerasimos 00:33:14.260 - 00:35:08.490 Well, I'm an enlightened being, so I never get caught in any of this stuff. But hypothetically speaking. Well, I think the one that we know the most is everyone says everything happens for a reason, you know, and on one level, actually, I agree with that, that things happen for a reason. But we have to talk about the timeline. Like, there are times where people have not gone through the necessary experience of. Of facing. Of dealing with something in their life and as a way to disconnect and to detach and not have to face certain things, you know, certain elements of their conscious mind, certain phrases can just come out to kind of like, create this barrier between that, like, yeah, something bad happens to you, your friend calls. And instead of being real AF with them about this experience, about the nuance and the complexity around this thing, because of your conditioning, because of your training, everything happens for a reason. It happened for a reason. It's okay. And it's like, well, you know, it's okay to feel. No, but it happened for a reason. And it's like, I understand getting to that place at some point. Like, I look back on some of the things in my life, and when I was in it, I was like, this sucks. Weeping. I'm crying. I'm in pain. I'm going, why did this happen to me? I tap into maybe some victim, parts of me come in, why is this happening to me? I'm going through this roller coaster of emotions and feeling, and then time goes on, there's maturity, and then you come to this kind of deeper, grounded knowing of like, oh, well, that happens. So then that led me to this, and then that led me to that. And then if that didn't happen, I wouldn't be who I am today. Hence, you know, that happened for a reason. But you can't. You can't bypass the journey to everything happened for a reason. You have to go through that process. Joel 00:35:08.730 - 00:35:09.090 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:35:09.090 - 00:35:10.730 And experience all that comes with it. Joel 00:35:11.290 - 00:36:03.990 And there's some level of that statement, everything happens for a reason. That to me, actually speaks into, like, an acceptance of reality, you know, like a. This happened. Let. Let's accept it. Yet I think the difference is when it's being used to bypass reality, is that you're not Actually appropriately responding to the thing in terms of what your nervous system really wants to bring forth to a specific situation. And instead this pseudo spiritual idea kind of kicks in and we don't have that appropriate nervous system response to something bad that happened or something negative that happened. We're not responding with our full being. This mechanism kicks in that bypasses the physiological and just says, let's just into intellectualize reality so we don't have to really feel the pain of the thing that just happened. Yerasimos 00:36:04.310 - 00:36:15.830 Yeah. And this is why education is important, like, to understanding the framework of your psyche, the architecture of the psyche, to understanding this thing called the nervous system. Joel 00:36:15.910 - 00:36:16.270 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:36:16.270 - 00:36:30.120 You know, to understanding what is happening physiologically, to being able to fucking note it, to point at it, be like, oh, this is what's happening. It's. We're building greater self awareness on multiple levels. Joel 00:36:30.360 - 00:36:31.280 Yeah, Title. Yerasimos 00:36:31.280 - 00:36:40.040 There's more on this mindset level and this body level. Now ultimately there's no difference, but we use that in a way to kind of communicate. Joel 00:36:40.360 - 00:36:42.200 Yeah, but it's. Yerasimos 00:36:43.080 - 00:36:44.600 Anyways, if you want to go. Joel 00:36:45.080 - 00:37:27.730 No, I was gonna. I was gonna say, like, obviously, that's why, you know, the nervous system work continues to be a core piece of this podcast. And there's five dedicated modules within Rise above the Herds of the Nervous System by Sophie. Right. And the other thing that, you know, I think can resonate with many people when it comes to using these ideas to bypass reality is when someone stays in a relationship that their deeper inner being is telling them is not good for them, is siphoning their life force is toxic, is killing them slowly for way too long. Even coming from the angle that, oh, maybe I'm meant to be with this person for a reason, even. Maybe the savior complex comes in. Maybe I'm meant to. Yerasimos 00:37:27.890 - 00:37:29.010 They're my twin flame, bro. Joel 00:37:29.010 - 00:37:30.050 They're my twin flame. Yerasimos 00:37:30.370 - 00:37:30.730 Right. Joel 00:37:30.730 - 00:38:36.520 I'm meant to save them. This is my just karmic tie and my lesson. Even though you were slowly withering away on a physical level, on a spiritual level, all of a sudden all dreams and authentic desires and meaning and purpose that you had in your life seems to fade away into oblivion, into the vagueness, into the distance. And all of a sudden you find yourself five, ten years down the track saying, who the fuck am I? Right? Because we didn't really exercise that deeper level of discernment. And so again, authentic spirituality is more so of a weapon than it is anything else. It's a. It's a. It's a machete. It's a. It's a sword. It's you saying, I know myself, I trust myself, and I'm going to allow this amalgamation of my higher human faculties of intuition, reason, discernment to work to guide me towards the path that is truly meant for me, the healthy path. So let's keep moving on, you know. You got something? Yerasimos 00:38:36.760 - 00:38:38.520 No, I mean, it might. We might touch on it later. Joel 00:38:38.760 - 00:38:45.550 Yeah, I mean, other euphemisms, like good vibes only it was a blessing in disguise. You know, I think a lot of. Yerasimos 00:38:45.550 - 00:39:29.130 People are waking up I think a lot of people are waking up more to like the love and light thing, generally speaking. I mean, there are those, but I feel like that's been like a phrase that's been used for many years to highlight this. What we're talking about people that just want to live in the one season world and like, they want. They don't want to deal with the difficult stuff or they think that this is another thing. It's like, just focus on the positive because then positive things will come about. So it's almost like a bastardization of like, as within, as without, in a sense. Like. But if I just. If I just think these happy thoughts. Oh, no, no, I can't think a negative thought now. That being said, there's a difference between entertaining something but then not letting it take over. Joel 00:39:29.450 - 00:39:29.770 Y. Yerasimos 00:39:29.770 - 00:40:21.140 You know, like ultimately we have consciousness. You know, it's like even through my work with the aware ego process is the ability to stand between the tension of opposites and to have them pulling on you. So again, maybe generally you're in a. You're in a positive, optimistic person. But then it's like this part comes in and you're like, okay, I don't want to completely ignore it. That's more, let's say a little darker, a little bit more pessimistic. I want it. Okay, let me see what information, what data you might have for me. But ultimately you're making the conscious choice. You choose a more righteous path. Hopefully you choose to live a more positive, hopeful, optimistic life. Because I do believe that that does impact your reality. But I don't think. I think when you completely shut yourself off from the opposite, that's when things get dicey and you know, the shadow will come to bite you in the ass, like I mentioned earlier. Joel 00:40:21.300 - 00:41:31.810 Yeah. And I think your ability to actually do that and play in the upper limits and hold more of the, the, the light and the goodness and the positivity, that capacity is enhanced when we've dealt with the darkness, when we know where it is when we know where it exists. And this leads us perfectly, you know, into this shadow and the body kind of conversation. You know, and just briefly, you know, one way to, I think, think of the shadow or think of the unconscious is essentially this dumpster heap at the back of the psyche. But it's like, not just the stuff that you've thrown in the trash, it's the stuff that you've thrown in the trash and then over time, forgotten that you've thrown in the trash. And so it just sits at the back of the psyche and, like, starts smelling and starts rotting and starts attracting maggots, so to speak. It's the stuff that you've decided no one can ever know about you, and you don't even want to know it about yourself anymore. And what is the cost of continuing to dump back there without ever really dealing with it? And I think that the world we live in gives us many science as to what that cost is. Yerasimos 00:41:32.130 - 00:43:05.580 I mean, the cost is that you're just not going to live the life that you want to live. You're not going to have the relationships that you want to have. You're not going to do the work that you want to do. In a lot of ways, I mean, it is the work that is necessary for a lot of people. And you have to put the time and the energy in. You have to be with yourself. You have to have a desire to look inwards. Y. You know, if you're getting lost in this external world, in the world of recreation where there are distractions everywhere you go, phone, Internet, being social, drinking, taking substances, escaping from reality, being high all the time, as opposed to, you know, sitting with yourself or drinking coffee all the time for a lot of people, you know, I'm not. I don't want to just, like, paint everyone with the same brush. But being jacked up on fucking caffeine is going to disconnect you very often from your emotional life, from the deeper workings of your being. You know, you're. There are drugs that are coming into your system that can disconnect you. And so what happens if you didn't. You didn't reach for the weed? What happens if you don't reach for the two glasses of wine every night? What happens if you don't have the coffee, you know, every morning and every afternoon as an experiment? I'm not saying don't do this stuff, but what would happen. What would happen if you just go sit outside with yourself without your phone? You know, what bubbles up from the surface, what thoughts Bubble up from the surface. You know, how can you get to know yourself in a different way? How can you relate to yourself in a different way? How can you have a different experience? Joel 00:43:05.820 - 00:45:04.750 And that's what a genuine inner exploration is. It's like, who am I when I'm not pacifying myself with these things that ultimately are disconnecting me from deeper truth within? And the ways in which I think it's probably obvious, but I'll state it, but the ways in which New age spirituality, just like religion, fosters the growth of the shadow is that it presents essentially a blanket moral code that you need to perform to and the moment you begin performing, a blanket moral code that you can wear as a face and a disguise to the world that says, I'm a good person, I'm a spiritual person, I'm a good friend, I'm a good neighbor, I'm this, I'm that. We start repressing all the stuff doesn't fit in alignment with that blanket moral code that the group, the collective, the world out there has superimposed onto your psyche instead of your morality being self chosen from a place of knowing, right? This is what it means to be in the world. These are the self chosen values I have that I know lead me to better relationships, better careers, deeper meaning in my life. So that's what it means to be an individual. That's what a real sovereignty really begins is me saying, I am the author of my life, my life is my own. My life does have value. And no one out there really knows what is the, what's the right ingredients to a good life for me, except for me. And I've got to go farm and forage those ingredients from the depth of my being and then mix them together and find the recipe and be like, this is my life. This is the unique recipe that is me. You know, this is my unique concoction of sprinkles and seasoning. And look at the life, look at the fruit. And again, classic Erasmus. The proof is in the pudding is going to tell you how good your recipe ultimately is. But you're never going to get the apex recipe from out there. You're going to get bottom tier shelf shit. Yerasimos 00:45:05.560 - 00:46:29.260 Yeah. And also too, just the, the knowing and the reality that like a person's path is their path. Just because one person, your dad, your uncle, your friend did a certain thing to get to where they are. Yeah, your path may look completely different. The lessons that you need to learn to get to where you need to get may be different. So the People out there that are projecting onto you that your path needs to look like their path. Like, no, that's not how it works. Like, some of us might have to go through some more trial and error in order to gain that wisdom over time. And so you have to look at yourself in the mirror and go, what is right for me? What feels right for me? But again, this is why. How do you bring back that deeper connection to intuition, to somatic intelligence? Like, the body cannot be ignored. No, you can't just build up armoring. Oh, yeah, I work on my body. I go to the gym eight times a week, and I have so much muscle. And then it's like, I push on your muscle and you're like, ah, that hurts. That's not a sign that there is life force and blood and lymph and energy moving through you. And so how do you build that relationship where there's this fluidity within you, where you understand your emotions and your feelings and you connect to them? There is intelligence there. You can't not integrate the body in a personal development process, in my opinion. Joel 00:46:29.500 - 00:46:46.940 Exactly, man. And it's the great paradox that, you know, many people think this path of New age spirituality leads to an increase in intuition, when really it's a complete disconnection from intuition. And really, intuition is fostered by all the things that we're speaking out, speaking about stepping into your uniqueness. Yeah, yeah. Yerasimos 00:46:46.940 - 00:48:08.170 And again, people use this term, ascending. We've said this, but then you hear other people saying it now. No, the goal is to descend, to come back into yourself, back into the depths of who you are. And again, that was part of my journey. I was much more psycho spiritual. Yes, I had the integration of parts where early on in my journey, and I understood that. But until I brought the body and until I got. For me personally, getting into deep body work, that changed me. I mean, emotions were coming up to be dealt with, thoughts, memories, images, to face and to sit with. That changed me. And of course, there's so much like. Like, there's lots of work to be done. And I don't mean this is like, oh, I gotta always do work and I gotta always heal, because that's its own trap as well. But just having this knowing, like you said before, we're going through life, we're evolving, we're maturing, we're taking in new ingredients. It's. It's never ending. And especially if we want to look at things from some cosmic level, like our soul incarnated here, and we're learning lessons that, like, we may not have everything figured out, we may not heal every single thing, whatever that means. Like, but we're doing what we can to build more consciousness, to build more awareness, to hopefully be a better person, be a better husband, be a better wife, be a better daughter, be a better son, you know, and get the things that you want in life. Isn't there? Joel 00:48:08.250 - 00:48:48.500 Isn't there? That's. That's the paradox again, is like, the journey of becoming a better husband, better wife, better daughter, better son, very, very often may require you to, for a temporary period of time and disappoint your father, your mom, your wife, your husband, et cetera. Right. Because the majority of us are just performing in these relationships according to these various moral codes. Right. But really, to really have presence, to really be connected with someone, that journey very often requires you to generate and foster confusion for those people as you. As you. As you go along that path. And I think we've all experienced that to some extent. Yerasimos 00:48:48.500 - 00:50:12.950 Yeah, yeah. And also, just to let you know, it may not like you following your path, you becoming more of yourself. That may not work like you. Your fam. Like, when I say work, I mean, like, your family may disown you. Your family may. You like me saying, being a better son, being better. It's like, within yourself that you're living true who you are. And in some cases, yeah, you might. You might be healthier in your relationships and how you communicate and your compassion, too. Because I think the more you learn about yourself, the more you embrace within yourself. You can start seeing things in others, and you can start seeing where they maybe haven't done a certain amount of work. And instead of coming from this place of, you're an idiot, I'm the enlightened one. You can take in, you can accept, you can understand that your parents had these life experiences that led them to who they are. Doesn't mean you need to approve of the behavior. But what is happening within yourself, you know, if you're constantly combative, if you're constantly being triggered, if you're constantly fighting all the time with your clo. Your closest family members, there is something off, in my opinion. That doesn't mean you can't have difficult conversations. But if there are patterns of behavior where you're just like, oh, my whole family, they're a bunch of retards. And, like, I'm smarter than them and I'm healthier than them, like, you still need to look in the mirror because there's still work to be done on some level. In my opinion. Joel 00:50:13.030 - 00:50:43.100 Yep. You spoke into this and the Young quote, there's no different. There's no difference between psyche and body. In reality, there is nothing but a living body. And I mean, I think we already tapped into this, but that completely like just demolishes this whole idea of transcendence oriented spirituality. You know, it's like the psyche and the body as this unified vessel is something that really needs to be integrated if we're going to understand authentic spirituality. Yerasimos 00:50:43.500 - 00:50:55.990 Well, even just look at the Trinity, the trinity of, of Dr. Hamer's work. Psyche, brain organ, perception, how you take things in, they're impacting you simultaneously. Joel 00:50:56.150 - 00:50:56.630 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:50:56.630 - 00:51:14.950 So there isn't a separation. I think even Hammer has a quote. In reality, there isn't three. There is just the one. It's the, it's the psyche, brain organ complex. And so again, like, I get it, we, we talk about these separately so we can understand them, but we are just a living body. Joel 00:51:15.110 - 00:51:15.510 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:51:15.510 - 00:51:29.400 And again, we can do work on our mind that can have impacts and we can also do work from a physical standpoint that can impact us mentally. But again, it's, it's all just one, in my opinion. From that standpoint, I don't know if that made sense. Joel 00:51:30.120 - 00:52:17.530 It makes complete sense. And just to make this really simple for people, if you're listening, if you're listening or reading something on this topic of spirituality and you hear the phrase you are not your body, or you hear the phrase you are not your mind, just let that red flag be raised internally and just really think deeply about this information that I'm about to take in. Because it's disintegration where that is ultimately leading. Speaking of disintegration, anger seems to be one of the single most shamed emotions in these spiritual circles. So what is the real cost of suppressed anger? Dry, in terms of drive, boundaries, vitality, life force. I know you're passionate. Yerasimos 00:52:18.490 - 00:56:22.670 I'm really passionate about all of it. You know, I. We are taught in our culture very often, do not be angry. You know, we, we are perpetual people pleasers. Walk on eggshells, you know, don't set boundaries, don't stand up for yourself. And yet this, this anger lives in this area within ourselves where there is such life force and vitality there that if we disconnect from that, if we repress that. And again, for many people, they don't even know that they repress it. This is stuff that happens early on. You raise your voice as a kid, you get smacked in the face a few times, and it's like, okay, not safe. Another part comes in that's like, oh, you will not get angry. And this is all happening obviously, like unconsciously when you're young. And on one level, thank you. Thank you for protecting me when I was a kid so I don't get slapped in the face continuously by my mom or my dad or my caregiver. But we get older and we want to be healthy and we want to be in healthy relationships and we want to know ourselves. And so this is the work that is necessary. We reclaim from the dumpster heap, we reclaim these parts that have been lost, or we also develop parts of us, or we reclaim parts that like, again, you said it earlier, it's not just like, oh, the negative stuff, it's the positive stuff. But even some stuff that's considered negative is positive. So for someone who's been raised to be a people pleaser or to say anger is bad from that place within them, they're going to see anyone that kind of is a little bit more forceful, that sets boundaries, they're going to look at them in a negative light because they haven't integrated that part within them. And so again, I say this very often from a spiritual standpoint. You can learn so much about yourself and the state of your psyche by paying attention to what you deeply judge and also what you deeply admire. So if you see someone setting boundaries, you know, even being, being angry or forceful, and you feel a deep trigger within yourself, that is, that is medicine for you. There are lessons there for you to go, okay, why am I triggered so much by this person? What would happen if I had a little homeopathic dose of that anger? How would it help my life? And I've said this story multiple times. I'm going to say it again because I think it, it holds value. I was studying with Drs. Hallen, Sidra Stone about 16 years ago in NorCal, RIP Hal, and someone was sharing their dream. And again, I think dreams can, can bring us more closer to ourselves. And there's a form of dream work that I think falls under the umbrella of authentic spirituality. Anyways, this one practitioner, she was a psychologist, she had a dream and Hitler came to her in her dream. Now, collectively, Hitler holds something for the collective. You know, it's like intense, scary, forceful, murderous, killing, etc, and so Hal goes to her, okay, if you, if we were to take this Hitler image, this Hitler image in your dream, throw it in a big stock pot, put some water in it, boil it, boil it down, boil it, reduce it, reduce it, then take A little dropper full. And take a little dropper full of that reduced liquid of Hitler and put it on under your tongue. How he goes to her, how would it help you? And she goes immediately, well, I wouldn't let people walk all over me. I would be able to set boundaries. I'd be able to express myself and assert myself more. Again, one of the practices of self esteem, the practice of self assertiveness, you know, I would claim more agency over my life. And so again, we have to be mindful what is. Where's the gold in these aspects that we judge in people and not only judge over admire, we put people on pedestals, you know, you know, what can we take from them in order to integrate into our lives, to get us closer towards what we want? Because again, like Joel mentioned, the proof is in the pudding. What is the state of your life? What is the state of your relationships? What is your state of relation to yourself? And if it's not what the deeper part of you wants, you got to look with. Joel 00:56:23.500 - 00:57:36.410 Exactly. I mean, to me, like, anger is so powerful and so necessary. Like even it's usually the primary states and the primary fuel to change one's life. Because to really change your life, it usually starts with, I'm sick of this. I am genuinely sick of this. Right? And that is very often the catalyst that leads you to make different decisions and to change your path. And again, for anger, it's very difficult for me to like, not contemplate anger without bringing it back to the carrot test, tarot and the archetype of the emperor, you know, and the emperor has gifts and shadows. And the gifts of the emperor is drive, vitality, entrepreneurship, creation, life force, energy, libido, ambition, tenacity, discipline. Right? This is what anger can give an individual. And on the flip side of that, might be violence, might be aggression, might be combativeness, all those things. But ultimately all of this, you know, is sacred and needs to be held and distilled appropriately. Yerasimos 00:57:36.730 - 00:58:00.590 Like, well, and also, and also, you know, Sophie, my wife Sophie, leads the nervous system component rise up of the herd. You know, she did a recent presentation from Freeze the Freedom, you know, how to tap into healthy aggression. So again, if you're in that more freeze state, if you're in that more kind of depressed state, like getting in touch, tapping into this anger is going to bring you towards healing and building more capacity within your nervous system. So again, all this stuff is related. Joel 00:58:01.150 - 00:58:32.270 Yeah. Okay, so let's wrap this up in the. In the next five minutes. So perfection ultimately requires Rejection and wholeness ultimately demands integration. And so wholeness, not perfection, is the path. So for the listener, I guess, who's being deep, maybe in a new age path is feeling the cracks. What is the first honest step? Not the dramatic one, the first real one? Yerasimos 00:58:34.750 - 00:59:04.760 I don't know. How do you accept yourself? Yeah, that's like, how, how do you move towards putting an arm. I don't know why this is making me emotional. Like, how do you put your arm around these aspects of who you are, you know, and, and, and build a more conscious relationship to them and be curious about where they came from and why they're there, you know, and, and to love them and go, you are a part of me. Joel 00:59:05.180 - 00:59:05.460 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:59:05.460 - 01:00:52.760 And I will not let you take over the wheel all the time. There is more to me that I'm here to explore in this lifetime. I am here to, to figure out who I am on the deepest levels and to embrace more of my humanity so I can understand who I am and give my gifts in the world, you know, anyways. But again, there has to be that place of self acceptance, the space, you know, between stimulus and response to go, oh, why am I, why was I going to react that way? Why is this happening within me? And then again, you have to build this level of curiosity. This isn't for everyone. You know, not, not everyone is built for this kind of work, this level of self ownership and, and self. Deep curiosity and, and humility to realize, man, I've been through some stuff. I don't have it all figured out. But ultimately, how can you be the conductor of that inner orchestra and bring more interest instruments at your disposal so you can play a fuller, richer song of your life as opposed to, oh, no, I'm just operating from a limited place and it's not about perfection. Like, it's not all of a sudden, wow, now I'm so successful and I'm so smart and I'm so connected to my emotions and I've done all these healing workshops and now I'm never going to have relationship issues. And now I'm never going to think badly about myself. I'm never going to be in the dumps and I'm not going to feel like, oh, what the fuck am I doing with my life? You're going to have those moments now. They may, you may not stay in them as long. They may not throw you off, throw you off what you're doing, but to think that you're going to get to this perfective state of enlightenment where you're never going to feel angry, you're never going to feel sad, you're never going to feel confused. That is just absolute bullshit. Yeah, in my opinion. Joel 01:00:53.480 - 01:02:39.630 Well said, bro. Well said, man. I guess the final piece that I want to bring in is this hermetic principle of as within. So without. So your outer life being the mirror to your inner life. And what does that ultimately really mean? And, you know, the more integrated inner life that you have, you would think that ultimately the more integrated out of life that you're going to experience as a result of that. So the work that you do on your inner being to move towards wholeness, to raise your awareness and raise your capacity to stand within the tension of opposites, to be able to move fluidly through these different states of being, of course, is going to have a direct impact on the outer life that you ultimately experience. Even again, in the context of New age spirituality. Like, the pieces that you cut out within are the things that you're unconsciously going to want to avoid without. And so you're going to end up living a very one seasoned, performative life that over time leads to an erosion of self, an erosion of your deeper inner being, and an erosion of your capacity to actually handle reality and be fit for the life that God gave you and God put in front of you. So that's my closing statement. Like, this is the work. Reality is not separate from spirituality, and spirituality is not separate from reality. All of this is sacred. All of this is God given. All of your experience, all of your humanness, all of the things that you're being asked to move through in your life is there because ultimately you're being asked to evolve your capacity to hold it and to integrate it. Yeah. Yerasimos 01:02:39.790 - 01:02:56.110 You know, we say on our website, the. The. The ultimate spiritual assignment. The spiritual assignment is becoming yourself. Yeah, becoming yourself. And all your glory and all your nuance and all your complexity and really understanding who you are, why you're here, and what you're meant to bring forth into the world. Joel 01:02:57.470 - 01:03:00.030 Thanks for listening to Here for the Truth. Y' all take care.