Lucy Biggers The Journey of a Former Climate Activist

(0:00 - 0:08) Coming up in this episode. The Dakota Access Pipeline protests, like that should not have happened. Even if I'm like morally on the side of the protest, like that is not right. (0:08 - 0:23) But I would never have like publicly stated that because the social cost of going against the group was so high. And so I would just kind of in my mind go, well, I guess I'm just going to play it small and I'm just going to give up my power to the system. I lived like that for so long. (0:23 - 0:35) I was a hypocrite. You are now listening to the Year for the Truth podcast hosted by Joel Rafiti and Yerasimos. All right, everybody. (0:35 - 0:41) Welcome back to another episode of Year for the Truth. I'm Joel Rafiti. I've got my co-host Yerasimos with you as always. (0:41 - 0:55) And we're here once again, bringing you cutting edge conversations, really diving deep into the psychology behind many of these topics as well. We're not just hanging on the surface level here by any means. And today is no different. (0:55 - 1:19) We have Lucy Biggers joining us, who was a very hardcore leftist climate activist for a long period of time. She interviewed people like Greta Thunberg, etc. And over the years was able to have an ideological shedding and a deeper understanding of what she really thought and believed about certain topics. (1:19 - 1:53) She was able to question the way that groupthink had hijacked her ideology and her belief systems. And ultimately, over time, developed the courage and the bravery to speak and come from a more authentic place. And so she really does encapsulate as a microcosm, the essence of the Year for the Truth journey, of everything that we speak about, of everything that we poured into Rise Above the Herd, our flagship course to help you decondition from groupthink and really strengthen your inner discernment and intuition as well. (1:53 - 2:15) So I think you guys are going to get so much value from this conversation. And I think just as a side note, it's like, I have so much admiration for anyone who is able to, at the other side of a journey, openly stand there and say, this is how I used to be. This is what I used to believe. (2:16 - 2:27) This is how I built a following. This is how I built a career. But I got to a point where I could no longer ignore a deeper truth that was yearning from the deepest sense of my being. (2:28 - 2:43) And so something had to shift. Well, it's rare too, because there are those people that go through the process, but also then be in the public sphere and to admit it or to share the journey you're being on. I feel like that's more rare. (2:43 - 3:01) You know what I mean? It's one thing for a person to go on their own thing and then come at things privately and then live their life. To be someone that was in the public sphere, advocating for certain things and then to switch or flip or to come to a deeper, more nuanced understanding. I have a lot of respect for individuals like that. (3:02 - 3:18) Yeah, absolutely. Right before we get into the episode, I want to highlight recent Rise Above The Herd graduates, Lee. And Lee, he says that, this program forced me to think about stuff from my past that I had locked away in the recess of my brain. (3:18 - 3:34) And also ask myself some hard to answer questions. But in doing so, it made me understand why I've been the way I've been for many years and has given me the resources to continue working on myself. I'm already in a better place as a result of the program in only 10 weeks. (3:35 - 3:53) I felt that Wrath gave me the motivation, the knowledge, the tools and has really highlighted the path for me on my journey of personal self-development and improvement and the journey of seriously getting to know myself. Lee, so glad that you undertook the Rise Above The Herd journey, man. And thank you so much for your incredible feedback. (3:54 - 4:26) And honestly, I reiterate it, but we're just stoked to now be able to offer Rise Above The Herd as a journey that you can undertake on yourself. And at a price point that is literally less than for most of the time, two therapy sessions or two consults or two astrology readings or two human design readings, whatever it might be. And you get lifetime access to this fully curated journey, which really encompasses the hero's journey, the authentic path, helps you build intuition, build discernment, build self-esteem. (4:27 - 4:52) And most importantly, it positions you as the actual creator of your destiny from a whole and integrated place. So if that sparks something in you, hereforthetruth.com forward slash R-A-T-H to learn more about Rise Above The Herd. Lucy Biggers is an American media professional who serves as head of social media at The Free Press. (4:53 - 5:28) Previously a climate influencer and activist, she produced viral social media content for outlets like NowThis, including campaigns amplifying the Standing Rock protests against the Dakota Access Pipeline in 2016. Biggers later reflected critically on her role in these efforts, arguing in The Free Press articles that they oversimplified complex environmental issues and contributed to unintended ecological harm at the sites. Her writing often critiques progressive activism, climate doomerism, and social media's influence on public discourse, drawing from her experiences in digital content creation. (5:28 - 5:33) Lucy, welcome to Here for the Truth. Thank you so much for having me. Absolute pleasure. (5:33 - 6:13) One way we always like to kick off these conversations with first-time guests is we kind of really want to dive deep into your personal hero's journey. You know, obviously we've got a little brief synopsis in that bio there, but yeah, like what are some of the major rites of passage along your journey? What were some of the major catalyzing moments that caused you to shift perspective and basically end up doing the work you find yourself doing today? Yeah, thank you so much. I have been at this content creation climate movement stuff since 2015, which is when I started out the company NowThis News, which did you guys know that one? I've heard of it, but I don't know much about it. (6:13 - 6:32) It was the biggest video publisher and news publisher on Facebook back in the 20-teens, and it really created the format of the video. We know when you scroll on your phone now and videos automatically play. Back in 2015, that was a new technology, and now this was the first one to put subtitles on videos. (6:33 - 7:03) And so we had this catastrophic growth, and I was a video producer there in 2015 when I was 25, I started. And so I was sort of an early adopter of the algorithm scrolling that we know now. And so from that experience of being a video producer at NowThis, I became interested in the climate movement because I just would see different videos on my feed, and it just made me buy into this very simple black and white thinking about how the climate crisis is happening. (7:03 - 7:07) Nobody cares. The politicians don't care. Businesses don't care. (7:07 - 7:20) This is existential, and we need to do something about this. And so 2015 into 2016 is when I got my first exposure of it. And at that time, pipeline protests were really popular. (7:21 - 7:39) The Dakota Access Pipeline particularly was very viral in 2016. And I, as a video producer at NowThis, made videos about that topic that got 100 million views, which at the time was way more than we think of now because it was 2015, 2016. So this was during the whole calendar year of 2016. (7:39 - 7:49) And I ended up even going out to the Dakota Access Pipeline. The other word for it was Standing Rock, the Standing Rock protests. And so that was my first exposure. (7:49 - 8:03) And at the same time, I was watching documentaries by climate activist, propagandist Josh Fox. He's done films like Gasland. Watching Leonardo DiCaprio had a film called Before the Flood, which was very biased. (8:04 - 8:18) And my understanding of climate was very surface level, and it was very emotional. And I didn't realize my sources were not the most reliable, but they were also very mainstream. Just this mainstream narrative, this is an existential threat, and we have to do everything to stop it. (8:18 - 8:30) We have to transition away from fossil fuels as fast as possible. We've got to keep all the oil on the ground. And then over those next five years, all the 20 teens, then Trump gets elected and Greta Thunberg becomes really big. (8:30 - 8:38) I interviewed Greta. Plastic straws become enemy number one. I'm trying to get plastic straws banned by making videos about that. (8:38 - 8:56) I never pushed any policy, but I would always be the amplifier in my role because we had 14 million followers on Facebook. So I would make videos about these topics and they would always go viral. And so I'm just sort of following the spark of interest and building up my own Instagram following. (8:56 - 9:10) I peaked at around 50,000 followers on Instagram. And I interviewed AOC when she was up and coming. One of her first press interviews I actually did because I met her in an event in New York, and I thought she had a lot of spark and charisma. (9:10 - 9:19) And I was obviously a Bernie supporter, so I did a video on her that went really viral. Then the Green New Deal was proposed. I did really glowing videos on that. (9:20 - 9:50) And so I just had this standard sort of basic climate activist perspective, never questioned, is it actually existential? Can we really have an impact on this? And even then had a job where I was a host of a climate series called One Small Step. And so I started to have a lot of professional rewards from being part of this movement. And where the crack sort of started to show for me was actually during COVID, where the world shut down. (9:51 - 10:08) And our emissions went down something like 5% that year, even though the entire world was shut down. And I started going, wait a minute, the climate movement wants us to be 100% no carbon emissions. And the world was entirely shut down for a while, and we only saw 5%. (10:08 - 10:19) So I kind of started to think, wait a minute, what is the climate movement actually asking of us? Because that doesn't sound like a really great way to live. No more breathing. No one's allowed to breathe from now on. (10:20 - 10:24) We need to get to 10%. Yeah. And the ideas were just becoming more egregious. (10:24 - 10:39) It was like cows are causing climate change. So we need factory built meat, you know? And you're like, wait a minute, I think the factories would have a higher carbon emission than the cows. And so a lot of cracks were kind of building up over several years. (10:40 - 10:57) It wasn't like I didn't have like one light bulb moment where one moment I was thinking one thing and one moment I was thinking another. I always kind of thought there was some of this movement didn't make any sense. But I was in this groupthink bubble where I was just getting my opinions from the group. (10:57 - 11:14) And as a good member of the group, obviously climate change is an existential threat. So like, we'll figure out the details later, right? Like just keep the oil in the ground, get rid of all the cows, and shut down our economy to save our carbon emissions. We'll hammer out those details because this is an existential threat. (11:15 - 11:29) And so, yeah, the groupthink really stifled my ability to critically think for years. Even if like privately and maybe one-on-one conversations with friends or my husband or something, I might express doubt. I would never have done that publicly. (11:29 - 11:49) But then in 2021, I left my job where I had been like known as a climate influencer and that gave me some space to no longer post online. And I read Michael Schellenberger's book, Apocalypse Never, which is a very good book because he's a former climate green activist. I actually know him now and I've met him a few times. (11:50 - 12:01) And his whole thesis of the book is like, we're not gonna die from climate change. It basically countered everything I was afraid of. So I read that in 2021, left my job, and then I have two kids now. (12:01 - 12:14) So I had my first son in 2022. And that same year I started here at the Free Press. And if you guys are familiar or if your audience is familiar with the Free Press, it's a business that was started by Barry Weiss who left the New York Times because of the group Think There. (12:15 - 12:55) And so my experience at the Free Press, even though I got hired as a social media person, so I was behind the scenes, I kind of feel like I had these few years of almost like sitting at the feet of like bravery and wisdom when it comes to thinking for yourself. And so reading every single article from the Free Press for the past few years as the head of social media, this past spring, I kind of realized, you know what? Like I have a lot to say about the climate movement, what I've learned from leaving the movement, what I think doesn't make sense. And I think that my perspective as a former climate activist and as a young woman, not that young, I'm 35, but like younger than the demographic that talks about this is really important. (12:55 - 13:14) So I decided to start making content in the spring and started just on TikTok. I posted a video every day in this series called Why As A Former Climate Activist, I Now Think The Climate Movement Is A Scam. And then that was fun to do for a month and that kind of got me feeling comfortable on camera again. (13:14 - 13:52) And then I started posting my Instagram and kind of went back into where I was and I get a lot of pushback because again, I had that following, the climate influencer following that I had built up. And so, yeah, these past six months have just been, I guess the hero's journey of creating content, knowing I'm gonna get pushback, continuing to read and research and establish myself more as a climate skeptic, realist personality online and learning from all these amazing people who have been, by the way, doing this fight for decades, but they have been ostracized, kicked out of their jobs, deplatformed. You guys know the whole, how all this happens. (13:53 - 14:07) And so the climate information that I talk about has been out there, but it hasn't really necessarily broken through until recently because of all the censorship. And so now here I am talking to you. Wow, round of applause for that. (14:07 - 14:29) That's incredible. Yeah, were there people when you're, let's say you were in the midst of your group think bubble that you would come across and they were like the people that were like, oh, the dissidents, you're like, they're crazy. We can't listen to them that now you're like, oh damn, I think they were right. (14:30 - 14:35) Schellenberger for sure. Michael Schellenberger. I think I saw a PragerU video, Michael Schellenberger. (14:35 - 14:50) And he was talking about how like, if we proliferated solar to actually go carbon zero, it would like cover the entire land of the United States. And I was like, huh? And so I would like come across like personalities, even like Dave Rubin. And like, I watched some of his stuff, but I would like almost like watch it secretly. (14:50 - 15:08) And I would kind of resonate with it because he would talk about how identity politics doesn't make any sense. And then I would like delete my history, you know, and be like, I didn't watch that. So there was like, and I think it's really important to understand too, that like the climate activism was really tied up with also being very, very left-wing, which is sort of a like common story. (15:08 - 15:27) And so that period of time where I was at now this, which was 2015 to 2021, which was kind of when the world went crazy because of algorithms and everything. And Trump got elected was that I watched it kind of from being where Bernie Sanders, Obama liberals, like millennials, I'm such a millennial, right? So I'm like 25. I'm like, of course I want free college. (15:27 - 15:52) Of course, I don't believe in income inequality, sort of that basic democratic socialism stuff to buy after Trump gets elected, those 2017, 2018, it became, you have white privilege, you need to sit down. Like you're a cisgender white privileged woman. Not that people were saying that to my face, but that like, that became the like group, think of the newsroom, right? Where it was like white people have made these systems. (15:52 - 16:03) And like, now we need to listen to BIPOC people to tear them down. And somehow climate was white people's fault too, because of like Western imperialism. And so like, it was all kind of meshed together. (16:03 - 16:21) And I, as a young person who was not inoculated against these ideas, like my empathy and desire to be good and to be liked by my peers and to be a good ally were hijacked unintentionally. I don't even think anyone in the newsroom even knew it was happening. You know, it was like a virus took over. (16:21 - 16:36) And so yeah, anyone who was outside that, like even Alex Epstein, do you know who he is? He wrote Moral Case for Fossil Fuels. Yeah, like it's funny because now I know him as well. I would come across his Twitter and below the Twitter, the replies would be like, this is a fossil fuel shill. (16:36 - 16:56) He is a climate denier. And that was enough for me to not, even if what he tweeted made sense to me, then like the reply saying he's a climate denier would be like enough for me not to take him seriously because my brain would categorize him as like out, which is funny because now I get those replies to my videos that I tweet. They're like, by the way, Lucy is a da da da. (16:56 - 17:12) And I'm like, this is hilarious. Okay, bot page. So yes, very much kept inside the group thing for years because anyone who was outside the group was labeled as bad, you know, fascist, MAGA supporter, fake news, conspiracy theorist. (17:13 - 17:30) Oh, of course, obviously like white supremacist, racist. So all of those labels of anyone who was outside the group kept me in the group for so long because I was like, I can't be called a racist and a white supremacist and a climate denier. So yeah, it's amazing how it plays so much on the psychology of the individual, you know, and you said earlier, it's such a big thing. (17:30 - 17:37) Like people want to be seen as a good person. And so they can, it's easily like attached ideologies that support that. Yeah, totally. (17:37 - 18:13) I think that's like kind of the whole thing like is the identity and the idea of if you get your identity from the group, you're really susceptible to falling for anything versus if you get your identity from inside yourself and have like personal autonomy and boundaries. But unfortunately with the age of social media and like what it's done to our brains, I think we're just kind of coming out of that crazy decade, I think. And we're going to look back and be like, whoa, this was so crazy for us as a society in the same way the printing press was crazy or like cable TV or whatever. (18:13 - 18:26) Like it's such a democratizing technology, social media. But at the same time, there's these pitfalls and we were not able to be inoculated against it because our parents didn't know what was going on. You know, they weren't aware of the algorithms. (18:26 - 18:41) And like, I think we'll do a lot better with our kids of being like, this is what social media is great for. This is what you have to be aware of, right? And like not falling, making the same mistakes we made because we kind of fell for, I fell for everything on social media for years. Yeah. (18:43 - 19:19) What does it take to kind of shed such an entrenched identity as something like this? And along that journey, I guess, how did family or friends respond to your changing beliefs and changing ideas on these issues? You know, this close group of people that perceived you in a certain way for so long. Like what was that journey like? I mean, I think the thing that maybe is confusing for people when I tell my story is like how much I was skeptical before I ever even thought of speaking out or even thinking that I was right. I would be like, this is like, this makes no sense. (19:20 - 19:48) And I guess that's like makes my story not as like this clean, like I was brainwashed. And then one day I wasn't because I think the self-censorship that I put on myself, even when I'm like, this makes no sense. Like the Dakota Access Pipeline protests, like the fact that the matter is the pipeline was already approved and had all of its approvals before and then Obama stopped it from being constructed even though it was like a private company that had done everything right. (19:48 - 19:56) And like, I remember a few months afterwards being like, that actually makes no sense. Like that should not have happened. Even if I'm like morally on the side of the protest, like that is not right. (19:56 - 20:12) So like I could see it, but I would never have like publicly stated that because the social cost of going against the group was so high. And so I felt like I was living, I was a hypocrite. Like I feel like, and I would live thinking, well, I'm never going to actually speak the truth. (20:13 - 20:30) I'm gonna live my whole life within the confines of this paradigm. My truth, which is the truth, like what people have sometimes take issue with like my truth, the truth. But like, I never thought, I would just kind of in my mind go, well, I guess I'm just gonna play it small and I'm just gonna give up my power to the system. (20:30 - 20:55) And I'm just, cause they know better than me. And like, maybe I think that I'm, I don't agree with this, but like, who am I to be, to go against a group? And so like, I live like that for so long. Even, and then I would publicly post videos about the importance of composting, right? And even like, yeah, like the white privilege stuff, you know, like how disempowering that is for people. (20:55 - 21:07) And I still see it now, of like women of my demographic on the left who are like, I just saw a Minnesota one where a woman was like, well, you know, like white tears aren't always the most appreciated thing. And you're like, oh God. Yeah, I was gonna bring that up. (21:07 - 21:30) I saw that video and I was just like, wow. Yeah, so like, I think that like demoralization and like breaking down of the identity and basically telling you like my life that my parents gave me, like I do come from like an upper middle class background where like, I don't have student loans, right? Like I grew up in a two family household, like both my parents worked. I don't have a trust fund, but like, like again, they paid for my college. (21:30 - 21:54) So like, I am a very privileged person in the world, but the idea that like this ideology would make me think that like, I am a white supremacist for holding up these systems. And like, my parents are also white supremacists for working hard. So like, it almost like put this whole, like cast this whole negative shadow over my childhood where I'm like, I'm the product of white supremacy. (21:54 - 22:10) I'm no longer proud to be American. Like I have family who's like worked for the, like my great-grandfather worked for FDR, you know, like you have army veterans in your family. I have a family member who like fought in the Revolutionary War, white supremacist, you know, like I can't be proud of any of that anymore. (22:10 - 22:40) And all I can do is atone for my sins. And so, yeah, the breakdown of the mindset and like to build it back up again, I was at the free press. I think for me, like Barry, this is going to sound like a free press like ad, but like Barry was like my lifeline because I left the, so I was at NowThis, right? For those six years making content, but kind of questioning, but thinking I don't have, who am I to speak up and go against the group? I'm a good liberal and I'll just stay quiet for the rest of my life. (22:40 - 23:01) Then I was at one year of a non-profit that's like not, I don't even think it exists anymore, but the idea was sort of like to bridge the divide between left and right was the concept of it. And so I was there and I took on like a producer role, again, behind the scenes, because I was trying to distance myself from the climate stuff without fully going on camera. I mean, sorry, without like saying it explicitly, I just was not public. (23:01 - 23:08) And then while I was there for a year, my coworker who maybe you guys know her, do you know who Ricky Schlott is? No. She's a libertarian. She's blonde. (23:08 - 23:12) She's like been on Bill Maher. She's a New York Post writer. She was there. (23:12 - 23:24) She was my coworker and she was so sweet. And she like wore a cross and is a libertarian and like went to NYU. And she was very proud of her sort of small C conservatism. (23:24 - 23:36) And that was the first conservative, like young person coworker I'd ever worked with. And like, she was so cool and nice and like no drama and like had a great sense of humor. And she told me about Barry's podcast, honestly. (23:36 - 23:50) And at this point I had been questioning enough to get away from the movement, but I was still like kind of half in, half out. And so I listened to Barry's podcast, honestly, starting in 2021, whatever it was. And it was like when I'd first come out. (23:50 - 24:09) And those first few episodes were so good. I mean, it's funny, the first episode, she interviewed Kim Kardashian, which you might be like, what, why do we care? But Kim and her talked about Kanye wearing the MAGA hat. And what was like so enlightening to me at that time was that the conversation did not devolve into like, well, that's evil. (24:09 - 24:20) It was like, oh, that's so interesting. Like, what is it like when a family member has different political opinions than you? And it wasn't emotional, it was a real conversation. And my mind was like blown, like, oh my gosh, like you can have a conversation. (24:21 - 24:28) It's not like Trump bad, no matter what. And so I started listening to Honestly. It ate up the entire podcast catalog, which was not that many episodes at that time. (24:28 - 24:39) And again, I almost would like be secretly listening to it because I thought it was like third rail, which is hilarious. And then became a big Barry fan. And that's when I got the job at the Free Press. (24:39 - 24:53) I applied to it a few months later and I started working here. And even like working here still, I'm like, what do I believe? And I'm learning about through our writers, like, oh, DEI isn't good. And I'm like, what? DEI is good, you know? And then you're like looking at it and you're like, oh, I get it. (24:53 - 25:03) DEI is actually not good because it's not meritocracy. And so like the end result of DEI, even though maybe it makes you feel good, it's putting other races over other races. And that's not right. (25:03 - 25:17) Like that's against American ideals. And so like just deprogramming for years and years. And so like you asked me, how does someone do this? Like, I don't know, get a job at the Free Press and work there for three years and read every article and like meet Douglas Murray and meet Barry Weiss. (25:17 - 25:35) Like it took me so long. And so, yeah, I mean, it's, I am hoping and the reason I'm also making content and always want to do all these podcasts is like I'm hoping I can be the lifeline that Barry was to me, where I can model for people, like you can be normal and not be part of the left. Yeah, and we all need our mentors. (25:35 - 25:52) I don't think things happen overnight for everyone. Like I'm a hardcore leftist and then I read a single article or a single book and then the next day I'm out there, you know, on my soapbox speaking about these things. So it is this internal process where you're grappling with ideas, you're grappling with different parts of you, you're having this dance. (25:53 - 26:11) And some people are more open to that dance within themselves and doing that kind of work and grappling with inner conflict as well. And other people aren't as much. So, you know, it's a testament to who you are as an individual and of course, having mentors around you that can help guide you and inspire you and move this process along. (26:12 - 26:29) Yeah. Something you said, which was really striking, you know, in those moments where you felt the identity shifting was like this sense of powerlessness that I'm just going to succumb to a life where on a deeper level, I feel as though I'm living this lie. I feel like the identity doesn't really match what's happening inside me. (26:30 - 26:55) But like most people never actually cultivate the courage to kind of go all the way with that inner feeling and that inner knowing. And their entire life is flaccid in this sense where like you become half a person because this identity, which has become so cemented in how people perceive you, like you're literally psychologically trapped there. And that becomes like the worst kind of life imaginable when you become a living, walking, breathing contradiction. (26:55 - 27:11) Because on a deeper level, what you're feeling is no longer aligned with these ideas which you projected out there as a persona. Yeah. I mean, I remember that as much as even like when I was at my office now, because again, I'm head of social media, so that's like an off-camera role. (27:12 - 27:33) And even like earlier this year, everyone knows me in the office. I'm like an extrovert, like always shooting the shit, have some new like opinion, you know? And so like even when I was becoming more comfortable privately to say some of this stuff, it was like the last Rubicon was like going public with it. Because then it was like, I can't go back. (27:33 - 27:41) And like, obviously there's a difference between saying to my coworkers who I trust or my family members, like, actually, I love fossil fuels. They're amazing technology. And saying that on a platform. (27:41 - 27:59) And so for me, actually, I did a lot of, I did therapy this year. And I did a lot of like nervous system healing and like inner child work, which is like the most generic stereotypical stuff ever. And like, I actually had like a fear of being visible that my nervous system was holding onto. (27:59 - 28:18) And so when I released that, that was like, and in my first session with my therapist, I literally was like, I feel like I have something to say, but the idea of saying something petrifies me. And she was like, oh, this is like a nervous system thing, like whatever. And so like I released that and like had worked with her for a few months. (28:18 - 28:39) And like that shift of feeling like safe in my body was like everything for me to then be like, okay, I am like, you're talking about like cultivating the bravery. It was like, okay, now my body can like hold this. Cause before I would always be like one foot out and then like I'd get one comment and I would, oh, I don't want to like do this. (28:39 - 28:44) Like I don't like, you know, I would second guess myself and I would spiral. And I'm like, this is so painful for me. Like I can't go visible. (28:44 - 29:04) And every time someone says something that they disagree with me, if I can't spiral every time, like this is not going to be sustainable. And so working with that therapist, which is kind of just like the timing of it was very lucky that it kind of all lined up. And that was almost a year ago, was like laid the groundwork for me to feel brave enough to be like, okay, I can go out. (29:04 - 29:09) Like I can take the arrows. Like, this is who I really am. Like I am an extroverted person. (29:09 - 29:19) Like I am a brave person. And like, I just had that last piece from like childhood. We all have that stuff, right? That like kind of prevented me from taking the step. (29:19 - 29:26) And now like, no regrets. It seems like the easiest shift to make once you're on the other side. It's like so much better over here. (29:26 - 29:36) But it was huge. It was like really having to overcome a lot to get on the other side of that. Yeah, you're definitely, definitely speaking our language there. (29:36 - 29:57) I mean, we started this podcast, like sure we'd like to get into issues about what's going on in the world, but our first two episodes are called Walking the Authentic Path. And what does it mean to walk an authentic path for the individual? And what rites of passage have we gone through? And where do we need to grow? And what's our hero's journey? And I love that you mentioned the nervous system piece, because that's the world I come from. And my wife too, she's like a nervous system specialist. (29:57 - 30:15) And we integrate all that work in our group work that we do with people. But you hit the nail on the head. It's like, do you have the capacity within yourself to go out there and speak your mind and not crumble and not fall apart? And then once you do that, it's like a signal, okay, I didn't die. (30:16 - 30:29) I said these things, I didn't die. And then you build the self-esteem or more and more to just live your life, live your truth, which is the truth of who you are and why you're here and what your gifts are to give in the world. And so, yeah, I absolutely, I just love it. (30:29 - 30:38) I love that you went through that process and it's just pretty fucking cool. And I literally did think I was gonna die. Like, I remember like saying to my therapist, I'm like, I think I'm going to die if I say this. (30:38 - 31:21) And she was like, like, not like actually, but like, you know what I'm saying? Like my brain was like, you'll die. And it's such a physiological thing because like I even think about me, I've been in LA for the last 13 years. So just imagine during COVID, like the first time I rolled up into like a Whole Foods without a mask, like as I'm walking into the door and I'm someone who I think like, okay, like I stand for my beliefs and my values and I feel like I'm pretty healthy, but there's still, we have interesting relationships with authority and what is that relationship within our system? And so even walking through that door, like what was happening in my system and feeling like the butterflies and feeling like the contraction and like, oh, someone's going to tell me something or tell me that I'm bad or I need to put on a mask. (31:21 - 31:31) But then you go through this process and you're like, well, I just stood up for myself. I honored who I am truly on the deepest levels. And I just think you can't not win when you do that. (31:31 - 31:44) Even though it may be hard and confusing in the beginning. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I keep saying it, like one of my favorite quotes of all time is the Joseph Campbell quote, the cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek. (31:45 - 32:08) And time and time again in our lives, we're confronted with this cave, which seems to be the metaphor for so much fear in our lives. But the moment we cross that threshold, there's so much more freedom and liberation on the other side. Yeah, I mean, I have to tell people, I think it's so easy to look at someone and be like, oh, they're this, they're that, like they're so brave, you project that like, I could never be like that, but like I'm telling you, I could not write. (32:09 - 32:14) So I had writer's block. My biggest fear was writing. And I hate writing. (32:14 - 32:28) I've hated writing my entire life. I like to talk, but I always like putting pen to paper was really hard for me because there was like a disconnect between my mind and my hand. And it was such a block. (32:28 - 32:49) It was such a psychological block because I felt like it wasn't safe to say who, what I truly believed. And again, like it was a psychological prison of my own making that at one point in my childhood, like was to make me safe, whatever, you know, you guys know all the like way why it happens. But like, I can tell you now, if you had told me a year ago, like that now, like I love writing. (32:49 - 32:54) I have a book proposal. Like I'm trying to shop a book. Like I love to write scripts. (32:54 - 33:06) I can write a script from one of my videos. It takes me 30 seconds because I'm just in flow and I trust and I say, this is what I want to say. And I'm telling you a year ago, I could not do that because I had not done the healing that I needed to do. (33:07 - 33:13) And so I second-guessed myself so much. Even if I came off, I've always come off extroverted. I've always come off as a big presence. (33:13 - 33:50) So like, it's probably confusing to people because like, that's not, it's not like I was ever walking around like shy. But just having that connection, like with my own calling and soul of what I'm come here to do and like using all of my past experiences with the climb movement and what I learned from that and then translating it and using the language that resonates to tell this same old story, right? That everyone tries to tell from like their vantage point that's like truth-seeking and freedom and all the things that we know are so important. So now it comes very easily to me most of the time and it's really fun. (33:50 - 34:07) But like, I truly like my biggest, but don't they also say like the thing that casts the biggest shadow is the thing that you're supposed to like go for. And I would like talk to like an astrologer and she was like, in your chart, it says like writing is like gonna be something and I'm like, oh, like I hate that so much. And now I'm like, oh, I could see that. (34:07 - 34:26) Like I, but like truly ran away from it, hated it, couldn't do it. Do you think, this may be a little corny and maybe people have brought this up to you. Do you think your last name has served as any inspiration in like, you know, like you stepping more into your power? You mentioned like, oh, I amplified things in the past. (34:26 - 34:33) And then, like, I don't know. I just like look at your name. Well, you're meant to be, you're meant to like, do something. (34:33 - 34:37) And I love that. I love that. No, I know I've heard people. (34:37 - 34:44) I like hear when other people say that about other people's names. They're like, oh, you're like bridge, like you're a bridge builder or something. And I love that. (34:45 - 34:51) I haven't like loved that. But I also know my name, Lucy is also like the name light. Now to like really get up and like build myself up. (34:51 - 35:05) But I also feel like, yeah, I love that like light bringing cause I'm very positive. And that was also one of the things that I worked through, which was like, even though I was like, I'm optimistic, I'm positive. I think the world's going in the right direction. (35:05 - 35:17) Like there's so much to see around us and be optimistic about it. And then I would have the next thought, which is, well, you're wrong. And there are people who are smarter than you who really know how the world works. (35:17 - 35:26) And you're just being naive or you're just privileged. And so trusting, no, my instincts around this are true. Obviously we still have our issues. (35:26 - 35:54) And it's not to say I'm not putting my head in the sand, but I just deciding to like, go to give myself back the power that I'm going to trust my instincts and not give it up to the new cycle, which is fear-mongering and so disempowering. And people, you asked me about my family and friends, which we didn't get into that much. But like, I have family members who are have Trump derangement syndrome, like don't want to give any identifying details. (35:55 - 36:16) But I've had like one-on-one conversations with them where I'm so misunderstood, and they're trying to hook me back in to the fear. And they're like, you need to wake up to like, and I'm like, no, I'm not going to, right? Like, and that doing that the first few times of not being hooked into fear was harder than it is now. And now I'm just like zen about the Trump stuff or the new cycle. (36:16 - 36:23) I mean, like the news around the climate stuff is insane. It's like such slop. It's always, we're 10 years away from the end of the world. (36:23 - 36:42) I know. And so I like, I've just really detached myself from those thought patterns and like that group think. And like, it is almost to the point where I think I can come off to different people as like very, almost like you could say insensitive because I'm like, get over it. (36:42 - 36:51) Like, I don't know. Like, you know what I'm saying? Cause it's almost like I left it so much that I'm like, what? Like that's a big deal. Being an individual is perceived as insensitive, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. (36:51 - 37:11) Yeah. It's pretty wild to me because sometimes I just, this is very basic, but I go like the proof is in the pudding. Like if I'm grateful for who I am and the life I'm leading and I love my relationships and I'm optimistic about the world and the work I do, like whatever underlying philosophy is feeding that, I think I'd be like, okay, that's cool. (37:11 - 37:20) As opposed to living in this state of disempowerment and fear and worry. Like if I have to like line people up, I'm like, yeah, I want more of that in my life. I want more of that in my life. (37:21 - 37:30) Not like living in fear, victimhood, that I can't change anything and that we're all fucked. Yeah. Nihilism, it's so, it's like, it's couched in like, I'm so smart. (37:30 - 38:07) I'm so informed, right? And I think, I mean, again, like thinking about the woman who's my therapist, like she gave me permission to like, not like, it's almost like people need to be given permission from someone who they trust more than themselves to say, no, it's okay to not care about X, Y, and Z. Like you don't have to get worried about Trump every time your family's freaking out about Trump. It's okay for you to hold your power and calm and not. Because again, like the mental, like gymnastics, like going even to the climate stuff, it's like, well, if you don't care, it's because it doesn't impact you because you're a white privileged woman in America, of course, you know? So it's like, there's always a thing where you're like, I'm not going to worry about this. (38:07 - 38:17) And someone's like, classic, of course you wouldn't because you're privileged. And it's trying to bring you back in. So even if you like take one step toward independence, there's another narrative to bring you in. (38:17 - 38:30) Crabs in the bucket analogy, you know, the crab tries to kick itself out and they're all just trying to fucking pull you back in. Pull you back into the bucket. Yeah, they pull you back in, right? Or then it's like, what if I'm wrong? So like, again, like all these patterns and you just have to cultivate. (38:30 - 38:43) And it's obviously what you guys like are love doing and what your work is, just like cultivating that inner knowing, inner trust. And again, I have become such a big book reader. Like I love scrolling on social media. (38:44 - 38:50) Don't get me wrong, obsessed. But I try to really limit my screen time. I mean, I work in social media, so I'm on it all the time. (38:50 - 39:01) But like, I will try to read books now. And that has been like so edifying for me. Just like the amount that I've learned from like trading some of my scrolling habits or podcast habits for books. (39:01 - 39:15) Like reading Robert Bryce, who's a energy expert. And I'm like, you know, just really reading about our energy systems and fracking versus wind and like all of this stuff. And I'm feeling so much more like solidified as a person. (39:15 - 39:32) And like my goal is that in this next year to really be able to go into these spaces and go to battle sort of like a Charlie Kirk, how he would go to like the college campuses. It's like, go and talk to these people and debate them, right? And be like, okay, we are saying this. I'm saying this. (39:32 - 39:54) And like, because a lot of these people who are really activated in a bad way and really brainwashed, all of their arguments fall apart under any examination. But it's so emotional. And it's so much giving up your authority to media or scientists or whatever that like, they don't realize that their beliefs really stand on a house of sand. (39:55 - 40:09) And so I really want to keep with my work, like chipping away at the common knowledge, which right now is that we're all gonna die from climate change. It's kind of shifting, but I think it's still really there. And like the subconscious, like- I've been saying this for years, decades. (40:09 - 40:19) Like that's the thing that helped me kind of wake up a little bit. It was just like, the world's gonna end in the 90s, the 2000s. And there's always something that was like fear-mongering around it. (40:19 - 40:24) Well, I mean, for me, what- Oh, you can go. Sorry, Brian, I gotta finish. No, I was gonna say, for me, it wasn't. (40:24 - 40:35) You talk about the power of books. Like an old acting teacher of mine in New York City gave me Dr. Carey Mullis's autobiography, Dancing Naked in the Minefield. And Dr. Carey Mullis, he won the Nobel Prize for PCR. (40:36 - 40:45) He was an outspoken activist against Fauci for decades and a lot of other subjects. But he had a chapter in that book where he was talking about a lot of different subjects. But he had one chapter in that book where he was challenging global warming. (40:45 - 40:49) He was challenging the consensus narrative around it. And I read this 21 years ago now. Wow. (40:50 - 41:02) And I remember even back then, not that I have- I don't have much knowledge on this subject. I was just kind of like dabbled into it. But I remember back then, I was at the park and like telling people, did you know what they're saying about global warming? Like probably isn't the truth. (41:02 - 41:19) You know, like I was crazy. You can't say that because like people like, yeah, they'll like freak out at you. And again, it's like, that's like such a big thing is how do you say certain things? Because like I, like you could just be, you could turn people off by saying it. (41:20 - 41:23) Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You learn over time too. (41:23 - 41:29) Because I think sometimes in the beginning, you get really excited. But then you have more discernment. You have more emotional intelligence, emotional maturity. (41:30 - 41:43) You improve your communication style, you know? And then you also don't feel the need to have to beat people over the head with knowledge. Like you kind of tune in like, is this person into what I'm saying? A lot of times I just nod my head and move on. It's not worth my time. (41:43 - 41:51) Yeah, totally. The, like the doomerism of the world ending is a classic pillar of any cult think. I grew up as a Jehovah's Witness. (41:52 - 42:00) Oh, wow. You know, so like a very kind of strict denomination of Christianity. And a core pillar of the JW belief system is that the world is ending soon. (42:00 - 42:17) And all the people that are walking around knocking on all the doors, all the sense of urgency, they're telling, they're calling people into the cults by saying the world is ending soon. You need to adopt these beliefs ASAP. And literally it's copy and paste onto the same climate thing, you know? Just like this religious doomerism-based cult, essentially. (42:18 - 42:28) Right. It sticks so well onto the human psychology and that's why it's so sticky because we are pre-programmed with this idea of original sin. We think we're fallen. (42:29 - 42:42) We think we're a fallen species. And so we have a lot of subconscious guilt around being modern humans and our consumption. And why aren't we just living in nature like the noble savage idea, right? Like even if we're not conscious, like that's just something that a lot of us believe. (42:42 - 43:00) And then climate change maps on perfectly where it's like you should feel bad for your house with the heating and the shower and the two-car garage. And you have so many Christmas presents you're giving your kids over Christmas and feeling guilt for your consumerism. And so climate, yeah, it's so easy to add on. (43:00 - 43:32) And I think people just kind of imbibe it unquestioningly. And even if you're never gonna go to a protest or you're never gonna glue your hand to a street and block traffic or whatever, pour paint in a Picasso, I think the majority of people still have this fundamental belief that they don't question, which is that the planet is somehow in decline because of us. And when you actually look at the statistics around nature, really we're like almost doing better than ever in every category because of just how much more efficient we are with the energy that we use. (43:32 - 43:53) We're no longer cutting down forests to burn wood, which was the main form of energy until the 1820s, right? So tree cover has completely come back in the last 150 years. And then like even endangered species, we used to hunt species to extinction. And now we have a lot of laws that say not. (43:53 - 44:10) So everything basically is almost the opposite of what we're told. And the media is so lazy. And there's just a lot of useful idiots in these newsrooms who, why would they go against the status quo? Like just say the hottest year ever and say something about climate change, say hurricane climate change. (44:10 - 44:21) Like it's just such lazy reporting and it takes a lot again, like from my own experience to go against it. I keep changing the language too. You know, like global warming, the climate crisis. (44:21 - 44:28) Now it's climate change. Like, oh yeah, the climate changes from day to day, to day, to day, to day, from year to year, from century to century. Like, okay. (44:28 - 45:13) Yeah. So what? New marketing for the same, the same shit heap, you know, but it's like, they just became like this, these talismanic words that they can just throw into the public sphere and it's invokes this image for individuals, you know? And like, I love that you mentioned like the original sin theme, because that really is the grounding framework for so much of this woke culture that we're seeing, because according to the original sin theory, man's fall is what? Adam leaving Eden all of a sudden, or having desires, becoming sexually inclined, having to be productive, having to be responsible to himself. And at the underlying base of our psychology, this idea that, oh, this is our fall, that we have to be self-responsible, that we have to work and provide for ourselves and keep the fruit of our labor in order to sustain our lives. (45:13 - 45:27) This is our fall, right? Yeah. And I just made a video the other day and something really clicked for me was the comparison between the climate movement and socialism. And this idea of climate movement is always, there's a utopia just down the path. (45:27 - 45:44) Like, just give us a little bit more of your taxes, we're going to live in a green, clean utopia. And the same way that socialism is like, just give me a little bit more and we'll have equality and justice. And I think these uses of these words that sound so good, clean, green, equality, justice for socialism. (45:45 - 46:08) And it takes, you have to be a conscious thinking person to hear the argument. Well, actually this green technology, this clean technology has a lot of problems with it. And taking that step to look past that first layer, which is why would you not want clean? Why would you not want progress, right? And then I'm the asshole over here saying fossil fuels are great because you're just programmed by your media consumption to think that obviously green and clean are the better solutions. (46:09 - 46:24) Not to even go into how our supply chains are all from China, how the mining is so bad for the environment, how the power density is crap. So you have to cover land with these power sources, how the sun never, doesn't always shine, wind doesn't always blow. So you have to have backup energy anyway. (46:24 - 46:50) So it doesn't even lower our carbon footprint because you have to, every wind project you put online, you have to keep a natural gas or coal or whatever project still online of the same amount because when the wind dies, you have to be able to turn on the energy. And so it doesn't even lower our emissions, but we are putting them in places like off of the Cape. And it's like previously untouched environments that environmentalists would love to protect, right? But now there's winds there. (46:50 - 46:55) It like makes no sense. But it makes the unwitting masses feel like they have moral high ground. So it's fine. (46:55 - 46:59) Yeah. Yeah. And I've had conversations like with my dad, I can like throw him under the bus, love my dad. (46:59 - 47:05) But he's like, I like that wind. And I'm like, no, dad, I'm trying to tell you the wind is not good. And he's like, no, I have no problem with it. (47:06 - 47:40) I'm like, oh God, I need to just like do a breakdown for him because he's not thinking about it logically. He's like, someone who's like me thinks that the wind is good, right? Why would I go against that? Because isn't it just right-wing nuts who think that the wind power isn't good? So like for me to even give time or I'm like not thinking of the right term, but it's like when you like get like just even to give attention to something like this and to like consider it, it would be against the group because if you're like nice liberal, you don't think wind isn't great. And again, you don't think that socialism isn't great. (47:40 - 48:04) But what do both of these things ask is for us to pay more taxes, to give up more of our individual freedoms and autonomy to unelected bureaucrats who think they tell us they know best for us. And so they tell us types of cars we can have or in the case of socialism, the property that you can own on what terms. And so it's like this slow encroachment and then also it leads to the climate stuff right now. (48:04 - 48:30) It's leading to a lot of affordability problems because even though like no one cares about the climate, it seems like anymore, like we've moved on, right? Like everyone's like worried about, I don't know what, is there a new thing, ice protests? It was like Palestine and then ice. It's no longer trendy, right? To protest climate. But what's happened is that all these policies were passed in 2019 at the height of the fever of it, which were efficiency policies like and no more natural gas for these buildings and all these things. (48:30 - 48:41) And so now all these homeowners are on the hook to like upgrade their buildings. And they're like, well, I don't have $50,000 to upgrade my co-op to energy efficiency. Well, I have to sell this. (48:41 - 48:54) Oh, who's buying it? BlackRock. And so now you're consolidating land, property ownership into like these multinational corporations and who hates that, progressives. So none of it makes sense. (48:55 - 49:10) It's all short-term, it's not long-term. Yeah, it's short-term, feel good, moralizing for long-term pain that actually hurts the very people that you're trying to help and does not even fix the problem you're trying to solve. Yeah, but really it's reflective of these people's lives as well. (49:10 - 49:15) Like there's no long-term planning in their personal lives. There's no long-term vision. It's just about what's the next hit that I can get. (49:16 - 49:28) Like these people live, generally speaking with a very limited sense of delayed gratification in their personal lives. And it overlays into their macro ideas and views as well. It's something that I've personally noticed. (49:28 - 49:35) Yeah, there's like the psychological hit. I noticed it. I mean, the ICE protests have been like so glaringly obvious to me. (49:35 - 49:43) And I think maybe it's because it's just where my awareness. It may be, I don't know. Are they the most glaringly obvious insane ones we've seen? I don't know. (49:43 - 50:07) Because I'm like thinking about like the pro-Palestine versus like even like the BLM riots of like George Floyd where I'm like, okay guys, these ICE protests you're literally protesting people taking illegal immigrants out of this country. Like, what are you even protesting for? Like, what is your end vision? Tell me the vision that you want illegal immigrants to have full like run of the country. Like, I don't understand like what is even what are you fighting for? Because I don't want to live in a world where like what you're fighting for wins. (50:07 - 50:16) Like I want there to be law and order. Like I want there to be borders. It's as if they want the legal immigrants to have more rights than them. (50:16 - 50:21) Like, you know, I don't have to pay. I'll pay for college, but you have college. I'll pay for health care. (50:21 - 50:29) But no, these illegal people can not have get free health. So let's just give the illegal people everything free. You know, we should just go wave palms in front of their faces. (50:30 - 50:34) You know, make them all comfortable. Give them foot massages too in the evenings. Oh, you're a pedophile. (50:35 - 50:38) Here's my child. Yeah, there you go. Oh, here's my child. (50:38 - 50:46) You can start a daycare center and he'll be your first child. No, but literally. You need a house. (50:46 - 50:53) Well, except for like, they don't really give them their houses. That's the one thing I'm like, if you want a legal to have like a home so much, you have an extra bedroom. Like, please take them in. (50:53 - 50:57) Yeah, they talk a big game. But if it came down to that, like, oh, I have a spare bedroom. No, no, not in my house. (50:57 - 51:11) Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, I think it goes back to the themes we've been touching on where like this disempowerment, the white guilt, like the woman you're saying, white tears aren't really helpful. And like, truly, these people have been beaten down into submission psychologically to the point where they don't value themselves. (51:11 - 51:20) They don't value their history. They have no self-esteem. And so they are really just holding up illegal immigrants because their one thing is their hatred of America and hatred of Trump. (51:20 - 51:33) And so what do they love? The illegal immigrants or Maduro or the IRGC. And it's really sad because they don't realize that they're the jokesters. I mean, they went into a church. (51:33 - 51:38) I'm like, wait a minute. Now, like the churchgoers are white supremacists. It's insane. (51:38 - 51:50) They are never actually for the cause that they're purporting to be for. Yeah. They're just for anything that is against the thing that they inwardly hate, no matter what it is and no matter how it presents itself. (51:51 - 52:06) It's the exact same reason they align themselves with like Sharia law and radical Islam. You have, you know, LGBTQ walking down a parade alongside, you know, pro-Palestine Islamic rallies. It's like, it's never genuine in terms of being for the cause. (52:06 - 52:19) And there's just a lot of misinformation of like what the conservative movement stands for, what Trump stands for. Like they truly think that like Christians are white supremacists. Like, I don't know if you guys saw Don Lemon because he went to one of the, he went inside the church. (52:19 - 52:31) Very briefly, very briefly. He was like on an interview and he was like, these preachers, like they believe that this country is just a white Christian country and they don't want anyone coming in who's not like them. And I'm like, whoa, we're having two different conversations. (52:32 - 52:53) Who gives a shit about your race and your religion? It's about illegal immigration. Like no one who's saying they're against illegal immigration is anything against different races or different religions. So like to support ICE is to support law and order and borders, but Don Lemon frames it as they don't want non-white Christians coming into this country. (52:54 - 53:12) And so then it's like, if that's the argument, yeah, it does make them sound like assholes, but that's not even what they're arguing. And then I saw other people on my social media who I follow are very left saying like, Rene Good was just protecting someone from being kidnapped. And you're like, okay, I can't, I don't know what to say. (53:12 - 53:18) Yeah. And also times are different. Like, you know, obviously there's elements of this country that were, that things grew because of immigration. (53:18 - 53:24) Like my dad came to this country, I think it was 1959. He like jumped ship. He was like a Greek immigrant. (53:24 - 53:32) It's like a merchant Marine, but like he adopted this country. He assimilated, he learned the language and my dad would only buy American made cars. I love that. (53:32 - 53:41) You know what I mean? Like this, like Greek dude, except towards the end, he bought a Toyota, but like for most of my life, he loved this country. Yeah. You know, and so. (53:41 - 53:51) Yeah. Also we've taken more immigrants than any other country and we all agree that immigration is amazing. I think it's like, it's the illegal immigrants and the fact that we haven't been able to get these people who are like breaking the law. (53:51 - 54:03) And a lot of them are doing really bad things with drugs and sex trafficking. And like, I get, I think when you live on the left, you don't even think that that stuff's real. You think it's like MAGA, like fake news to vilify every immigrant. (54:03 - 54:17) It's very black and white thinking. Yeah. Can we, can you go, I know you touched on it a little bit, but can you go into some of the main talking points around climate, like you're mongering and activism and then just kind of like your rebuttal a little bit to that, whatever comes to mind. (54:19 - 54:48) Yeah. So I guess the main argument when I was entrenched in it and probably it still exists is that climate change is an existential threat. It's where a civilization is going to crash from the continued use of fossil fuels, oil, coal, natural gas, unless we very quickly transition away and go to green energies and the Western countries like America and like Northern hemisphere is mostly to blame because we developed with fossil fuels over the past 150 years. (54:49 - 55:06) And so we're leading to all the warming. And so like we owe like the global South reparations essentially, because like they're having to live through this coming geological, geological, I guess, apocalypse. Maybe it's not geological, it's not the right word, but like ecological, thank you. (55:07 - 55:22) I knew it was illogical in there. So basically like we owe like almost reparations to the global South because like of this ecological coming apocalypse, that's going to happen like in the next several decades. Like I thought it was like the next 10 years we had to like change things or else like the world was screwed. (55:23 - 55:46) So the now what I, where I come down on it having talked to different experts and reading many books and one of the best people I love to bring up to the left is Steve Coonan, who was a President Obama Department of Energy appointee. And he actually worked for Obama. The lore around him is that Obama was like, go look into this climate change thing and tell me how bad it's going to be. (55:46 - 55:57) And when he went to go look, he was like, the science is not saying this is going to be bad. The media is saying that this is going to be bad. And basically I interviewed him and speaking to him. (55:57 - 56:17) He said, the consensus is this, we've seen 1.3 degrees of Celsius of warming since 1850, which is like when we began burning fossil fuels. We've also, because of burning fossil fuels, a side effect of that is released CO2 into the atmosphere. So we know there's more CO2 in the atmosphere, which is a greenhouse gas. (56:17 - 56:38) So we know it has some warming impacts and we know that the temperature has gone up. That is the, that's settled facts. And then after that, how much are we even causing this warming? How much does CO2 warm us? How much does the warming planet lead to extreme weather and danger for us? All of those things are still hotly debated topics within the scientific community. (56:39 - 56:51) You would not know that because of how the media does not acknowledge that. They say it's manmade and dangerous. And like, that's what the mainstream media has adopted other than like conservative media and independent media. (56:52 - 57:09) And also because of the way that scientific journals work, historically, they only are gonna publish things that go down that party line of like, it's a danger to us. It's a real existential threat. And so it's incentivized scientists to only find that link, right? Because that's how your paper gets published. (57:09 - 57:19) That's how you get status. That's how you get funding. And so like anything we've seen, like the gender debates, right? All of a sudden we were questioning, are there two genders? And like, well, science is backing it up. (57:19 - 57:29) Very similar thing with the climate movement. Like there was one like truth and that is what got like pushed away. But like, I don't think climate change is dangerous. (57:29 - 57:54) And I have really good stats to back me up if you wanna go join my side, which is that deaths from natural disasters are down between 95 and 99% since the year 1920. So we used to have about 500,000 people dying a year from hurricanes, droughts, tornadoes, whatever you can think of that's extreme weather, flooding. So 500,000 people used to die in 1920. (57:55 - 58:04) Now it's about 20,000. And at the same time, our population has quadrupled. So we are so safe because we have developed with capitalism and fossil fuels. (58:05 - 58:20) And so ironically, the thing that the climate movement vilifies is the very thing that has made us so resilient and safer. And the biggest like decrease has been that when droughts happen, like millions of people used to die in a single drought event. And now we have global food supply network. (58:21 - 58:29) So like we can airdrop in food to struggling populations. And obviously that was not possible 100 years ago. And then, so we're safer than ever. (58:30 - 58:51) And then also really interestingly, and this is like not, I think, really broken through to the mainstream is that extreme weather has stayed completely steady since the year 2000. And what's really significant about this moment in time with the climate conversation is you cannot measure climate change over one year, five years, even 10 years. You really measured over 30 years. (58:52 - 59:03) And we have basically for the first time about 30 years of reliable data going back to the year 2000. The 1980s, we had satellites, but like basically 1980 fine. You can say that's when it really reliability started. (59:03 - 59:21) But like the year 2000 is when we had like the satellites at a level that we would say are reliable. And so everything globally we could measure and every extreme weather has stayed completely steady. Like obviously you have years where there's more, where there's less, right? There's Hurricane Katrina in 2006 or whatever that year was. (59:21 - 59:29) But then like this year we had no global hurricanes hit. We had no landfalling hurricanes in the US at all. And so like every year there's yearly variability. (59:29 - 59:46) But then when you take 30 years, all of the like trends are flat or even in the case, interestingly of tornadoes, they've gone down. And even hurricanes are slightly going down. And the reason why is because the North and South pole are getting warmer from climate change. (59:46 - 1:00:03) And so the difference in temperature between those poles in the middle of the planet is less extreme. And those extreme differences is what was causing the extreme weather. So like actually you could make a really great argument that warmer weather at the poles is making extreme weather events become less common. (1:00:04 - 1:00:14) But nobody like talks about that because they want climate change to be like this doomsday scenario. And then also you could talk about how CO2 is a plant food, right? Plants eat CO2. We all know this from biology. (1:00:14 - 1:00:28) So with the CO2 doubling essentially since the year 1850, we have higher crop yields, longer growing seasons. So we're able to produce more food, which is amazing for humans. Obviously we have like food surpluses. (1:00:28 - 1:00:55) Obviously there's modern farming that goes with that and like fertilizer and all these things. But CO2 is a net positive for plant growth because plants use CO2 as the foundational thing that they eat. So like I'm like, where's the emergency here, people? Like why are we like taxing ourselves more when all of these things have just kind of naturally happened? And now we have the data to back up that it's not an emergency, but like there's so many nonprofits that make money off of this and the politicians and the activists. (1:00:55 - 1:00:59) And so it's really hard to like turn the boat. Yeah. Lucy, you're not a scientist. (1:01:00 - 1:01:05) I know I'm not. I'm gonna trust the 97% consent scientists. Oh my gosh. (1:01:05 - 1:01:12) My 97% consensus scientists. Okay. So thank you for that because that 97% scientist thing is something I always get in my comments. (1:01:12 - 1:01:32) But like that one study that said that from the year 2013 is completely bunk. And they just used really sketchy ways of getting to that 97% consensus. Not only just throwing out a ton of papers that like didn't fit, but then the group that they left, if you said something as simple as CO2 is a greenhouse gas, you would get clumped into the consensus of climate change. (1:01:32 - 1:01:38) Everyone agrees it's happening. And the thing is, most scientists do agree climate change is happening. That's fine. (1:01:38 - 1:02:05) But what are the impacts? Is it dangerous? Is it man-made? If we went carbon zero tomorrow, would it even change anything? And those are the things that are like really should be debated because now we have policies where we're trying to switch from natural gas to solar and wind, which are subpar energy sources. And what's happening in places like Europe, if you've read anything about this recently, there's been a lot of reporting on this. Energy bills, energy expenses are doubling, in some places tripling. (1:02:05 - 1:02:33) They're spending trillions of dollars over the last 20 years to transition to green. They've left, they're left with less energy capacity, less reliable energy and higher costs. And manufacturing now is completely leaving Europe because why would you produce something in Europe where it's one kilowatt hour is 40 cents? A one kilowatt hour is 40 cents and you're using about a million kilowatt hours a day of power versus it's eight cents in China. (1:02:33 - 1:02:54) And so the deindustrialization and the crashing of the European manufacturing because of this green thing, it's not even peaked. This is about to go mainstream, which is that, well, who knows how long it will take, but this is going to be looked back as the biggest mistake ever, these policies away from reliable fossil fuels. It's such a joke. (1:02:55 - 1:03:18) Yeah. And how much, to create a wind farm or solar, what's the cost to create that versus relatively speaking, is it just these upfront costs that people think are going to change the world, but it's just super high? Does it make sense ultimately? So the way that Robert Bryce, who writes about this stuff, I'm actually reading his book, talks about it is power density. So you want to get the most amount of power on the least amount of land. (1:03:19 - 1:03:31) And always historically, we've moved from least amount of less power density to more. So wood, to get a certain amount of energy from wood takes up more space than getting it from oil, because oil has more energy. It's like more compact. (1:03:32 - 1:03:44) You can get more for it. And so we were kind of moving in that natural progression from less dense to more dense. And that's what we naturally would do because we're innovative and we're figuring out new technologies. (1:03:45 - 1:03:52) Solar and wind are the opposite. They're way more sprawling than oil and gas and nuclear. Nuclear is the most dense you could be. (1:03:52 - 1:04:11) And so they're very expensive because again, you have to have the backup power when there's cloud cover or snow on these solar panels. Who's wiping the snow off these solar panels? So you have to have the backup generation, which is always fossil fuels, usually anyway. And then you also have just the life cycle of them. (1:04:12 - 1:04:34) They have to be replaced every 30 years. And then you have the trillions of dollars of government spending that we've put toward these things. And none of these technologies, solar and wind, would live, exist on their own without the government subsidies because of all the green policies they've completely bolstered this industry that now that Trump has retracted them, they're all falling flat because they don't actually make any sense. (1:04:34 - 1:04:39) But multinational corporations, we're seeing like, oh, we can get these really great subsidies. Let's do it. Let's do the wind farm in the Cape. (1:04:40 - 1:04:50) And we're going to get trillions in subsidies back from our, or not trillions, but billions back from doing this. And then we can just sell it off as an asset. I'm not a finance person. (1:04:50 - 1:05:07) So my understanding of the finances is more of a layman's understanding. But I just think what people need to understand is affordability, and power density. And solar and wind don't have any of those things. (1:05:07 - 1:05:10) They're not affordable. They're not reliable. And they take up a lot of space. (1:05:11 - 1:05:24) Is it true that like these wind farms also like lots of like birds are getting killed and you would think people would care about that? Or is that like a myth? No, they do. But I don't think it's, I mean, yeah, they get killed. It's not like Armageddon level, like birds are going to go extinct. (1:05:24 - 1:05:34) It definitely is something that exists. And so my whole argument is like every form of energy has an impact, right? We're not like we're living in the real world. We have to use resources. (1:05:34 - 1:05:59) But the reason why I like fossil fuels and oil and gas and coal, even though they have downsides, is because at least they're providing a good service that makes our lives better. Like I would rather have a coal plant that gives me cheap, reliable energy. And so I can have people living good lives and being able to heat their homes and do whatever they want to do, run their dishwasher, than these crappy solar and wind that don't even work. (1:05:59 - 1:06:16) And so it's like I'd rather just have no solar and wind and just have a little bit more oil and gas and coal that actually work. And obviously nuclear will move toward that, but it just requires a lot more investment up front. And there's been a lot of regulations that need to be taken away to make it not so expensive, which Trump's kind of doing. (1:06:17 - 1:06:30) But yeah. What's your thought on nuclear? Because there seems to be a lot of controversy even around that, especially. Yeah, there's a lot of fear mongering around nuclear because of obviously like the weapons is scary. (1:06:30 - 1:06:40) And then also not it's different types of nuclear, like the weapons and like nuclear power are different. But I think just like in the public psych, you know, you're like. Yeah, exactly. (1:06:40 - 1:06:50) And then there's like Three Mile Island. There has been a lot of very public meltdowns. But like the way the way the technology works now, like those would not happen. (1:06:52 - 1:07:00) And it's just like a whole new generation of nuclear. And then like the nuclear waste is like not a thing. Like people like it's not dangerous. (1:07:00 - 1:07:08) But that also there's a lot of fear mongering around that. So I think it's just like anything that actually works. There's like so much fear mongering, like the environmentalists like ruined it. (1:07:09 - 1:07:17) In Germany, they took they dismantled many nuclear plants. And now they realize that was really, really stupid. And they're screwed, essentially, because they did that. (1:07:18 - 1:07:35) Yeah. What do you think over the years, these massive financial powerhouses like Bloomberg, Gates and Fink, what do you think their interest in continuing to pour billions into climate activism was? Yeah, I think it's not that dumb. I don't know. (1:07:35 - 1:07:38) I don't know. I think there's ideologues. Like, I don't know. (1:07:39 - 1:07:44) There's people who know more than me. I can't speak to like what their mindset is. But you'd be surprised how dumb people are. (1:07:44 - 1:07:52) When it's like, I can be the good guy and I'm on the right side of history, you know, like. And you have like tons and tons of money. You're like, sure, I'll throw some money. (1:07:52 - 1:07:56) Oh, and it's so crazy. We can put it toward my nonprofit. Yeah, exactly. (1:07:56 - 1:07:58) Exactly. Yeah, for sure. For sure. (1:08:00 - 1:08:18) I want to ask a question. What do you actually think about fossil fuels? Because I kind of question the basis that we're just being fueled. Like, what is the unlimited fucking dinosaur bones like in the ground? You know what I mean? It's like, do you question that at all? I, you know, people comment that on my thing all the time. (1:08:18 - 1:08:22) It's not fossil fuels. It's actually not. I'm like, dude, I don't care. (1:08:22 - 1:08:31) I don't really care where it comes from. I'm just trying to make a video that people are going to understand. Like you could also say hydrocarbon because it's basically it's just carbon based fuel. (1:08:32 - 1:08:38) I don't know. And I have no idea. My instinct is that it is past life. (1:08:38 - 1:08:46) Like it could be like old algae. And like, like it's not like just dinosaurs. Like it's any carbon based life that's been like pressurized. (1:08:47 - 1:08:53) So that's like plants and shells and anything. So like it's not just like a dinosaur. So I don't know. (1:08:54 - 1:09:08) I, I, I think, yeah, it's the same thing. Like the other one is like, what about the weather modification? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't, I think that there's some weather modification, maybe experimentation happening, but I don't think it's like happening at like a massive scale. (1:09:08 - 1:09:12) Like, I don't think there's like a conspiracy. So like, I don't know. I haven't dug into those. (1:09:12 - 1:09:33) But to me, it's more like I'm trying to just break through on the, like, don't be afraid. Yeah, you're trying to bring more rationality to the arguments, which is definitely the right starting point for sure. Yeah, there are people too that make the argument that like these resources aren't limited, that there's like, like the Earth is constantly like creating or whatever is happening, you know, even water and all that. (1:09:33 - 1:09:48) But again, there's so much more fear mongering on that as well to push, you know, people's policy. And I'm not saying I know for a fact, I'm just highlighting that, like there are people who make those arguments in. I don't think we're going to have a, I don't think we're going to have a shortage of stuff because we're about to have a population collapse. (1:09:49 - 1:09:59) So we're not like we're peaking at however many people we have on this planet in our lifetime. So like, I'm not, I'm not worried about that. And then also like water is a renewable resource. (1:09:59 - 1:10:10) Obviously, there's a water cycle. Like it's about the infrastructure to get it to your home and have it be clean and all this stuff that is like the limiting factor. But that's something you can like build more of. (1:10:10 - 1:10:23) You can even do desalination. And then with oil, from what I understand, it's like we have several decades of reserves. And like that, like we're not going to run out of oil within the next several decades, like 50 years. (1:10:23 - 1:10:32) That actually could be like a hundred years now. Like, I don't know. Whatever it is by the time we would like run out of it, we are going to have the next technology that we don't even know about yet. (1:10:32 - 1:10:39) We've barely, people don't realize like we've barely dug anything. The problem isn't the oil supply. The problem is the human capacity to dig and produce the oil. (1:10:39 - 1:10:49) Like we just, we can't really, we can't even touch it. Say for Dina Moos, you know, the great economist in his book, The Principles of Economics. He's a previous podcast guest. (1:10:49 - 1:11:05) He says that we have used, if the entire world's oil supply was an Olympic swimming pool, we have used a thimble full. That's how much this scarcity kind of argument. No, I don't bind to the scarcity thing. (1:11:06 - 1:11:28) I think I like, I feel like that's such a limiting belief. And I, yeah, again, like it's so crazy how much those ideas stick, right? Because it just feels like your brain is like, it must be, we must be punished for living good lives, right? Like there is a limited amount. But I was just reading today, you know, China this year only had 7 million births, 7.6 million births. (1:11:28 - 1:11:43) And America had 3.6 or 3.5 million. And like China's 1.1 billion people, 1.4 billion people. So like China's about to be one third of the size that it is within our lifetimes. (1:11:44 - 1:11:58) When you say population collapse, you're saying because not, not as many babies are being born. Is that the main reason? Yeah, I'm just saying like, we're never going to run out of resources on this planet because we're about, I'm not going to have as many people as we even have now. Like it's not like the population is not going to be going like this. (1:11:58 - 1:12:08) It's going, it's literally about to go like that. Not like I'm saying population collapse like the civilization is going to collapse, but like we're not going. The number of people, yeah. (1:12:08 - 1:12:30) Like I think the thing, like I've heard people say, and I would love to like do more research on this, is like the poverty levels now or like $1 a day is like the poverty level, like in our lifetimes, it's going to be $70,000. Like the poorest person on the planet will have like the life of like a poor person in Mississippi. Well, poor people in Mississippi actually probably live in large, more like poorer person in Mexico City or something like that or Mexico. (1:12:30 - 1:12:47) Like, like we're going to just like our whole, the floor of being born on this planet is going to go up. And that's also because we're going to have less people. I guess Africa is still growing, but there's some, I think demographics that probably are growing, but like you hear it all the time. (1:12:47 - 1:13:02) Like, I mean, I come from Greece, like the birth rate is just dropping and dropping and dropping in Greece, you know? Same with Korea. South Korea is like, it's like this. So I don't think like that is going to be like the new thing that we'll be worrying about versus the unlimited growth. (1:13:03 - 1:13:12) But I think it's great because everyone can have as big of a life as you want. If there's less people, like everyone can have the penthouse. Yeah, well, it's interesting too. (1:13:12 - 1:13:26) Like you see all these like ads on like Facebook or these articles where it's like, go buy this house in this Italian village for like one dollar, you know? I know. It's interesting to see because a lot of people, you know, the young people, they don't want to stay in their small little villages. They want to go to more urban environments. (1:13:26 - 1:13:30) But then as you get older, you're like, I think I want more of that life. Yeah. I want to live like a quieter life. (1:13:30 - 1:13:44) So anyway, it's just interesting to see how things are going to play out. You know, in Europe, Europe is like going through a very hard time, I think in regards to just like their demographics and their politics and stuff. And like, yeah, we'll just see what happens. (1:13:44 - 1:14:05) Like they're like kind of a walking museum. So what is the right way to care about the climate and to actively advocate for a healthier climate? Or environment. It's so funny because like I don't, I don't, I think everyone should just live in alignment with what feels right to them. (1:14:05 - 1:14:21) Don't go throwing, you know, plastic into the ocean and like don't be excessive for the sole intent of being excessive. Like obviously be, have reverence for the planet and respect the planet. Conservation, I think, is still really important. (1:14:21 - 1:14:48) Protecting wild spaces and, you know, caring about life, other animals and everything, I think to a point is important. But at the same time, I have a much more like human centered approach now where I think that the planet, I mean, the human experience is to grow and create and live in alignment with what you're meant to do. And so I don't know, do whatever feels right for you. (1:14:48 - 1:15:01) If it feels like great to go live off the grid and compost and do all that, like that's why we have freedom of choice. But like there's no one size fits all. And like if you want to get the gas guzzling car because it makes you happy because you got a promotion, like do it. (1:15:02 - 1:15:09) Like, I don't know. I'm not, I'm out of the, I'm out of the like telling people what to do, like behaviorally game. I love it. (1:15:09 - 1:15:19) One of the biggest fears, which was always, I remember propagandized growing up was this hole in the ozone layer. Yeah. Anything you can speak on in that? I need to do. (1:15:19 - 1:15:21) I forgot about that one. I got to do the deep dive on that. Don't use hairspray. (1:15:21 - 1:15:26) Don't use the hairspray. I remember that as a kid. I need to do a deep dive on that. (1:15:26 - 1:15:40) I've only seen like tweets about it. Like, I don't know what the, like I need to like read a like legit take on it because I think it was, I don't know if it was like naturally occurring and it naturally changes in size and like, or if that policy actually worked. I need to like, I don't know. (1:15:40 - 1:15:45) But I think, but no matter what, we're fine. Like, it's not a thing. I know it's not a thing. (1:15:45 - 1:15:56) So whether we fixed it or whether it was just like got bigger and we kind of freaked out for a second and then like it went smaller again, naturally also could be a thing. I don't know. Because I've been hearing it for like, you know, at least I'm 45. (1:15:56 - 1:16:01) So like 40, 40 years. Yeah. Oh, well you got sunburned because of the hole in the ozone layer. (1:16:01 - 1:16:06) Yeah, yeah, yeah. At this point we were all just like turned into crisp. That was so 90s. (1:16:06 - 1:16:12) I feel like that was so like 1998. I remember that as a kid. Like the ozone, like sun damage was like such a thing. (1:16:12 - 1:16:37) Yeah, totally. Do you have any personal, I guess, concerns or cautions to win about a new form of groupthink forming, you know, whether it be in the workplace that you're in or just, again, like kind of just outsourcing authority and thinking into, you know, this new sphere of people that become this new form of influence, which is anti-left and anti-this and anti-that. I've already seen it with the fear-mongering around AI. (1:16:38 - 1:17:06) I think that the whole like, oh, AI, these data centers are using up all this water and like the bills are going up and like how can you not care about this like is a very like salient talking point that's already really taken on. And I think a lot of the moralizing and fear around climate change has jumped to that, I've noticed. And I saw a really good piece that was in Pirate's Wires and I forget the guy who wrote it, but he looked at like how much AI, how much water AI is using. (1:17:06 - 1:17:29) And it was like, even if we were to triple AI data centers by 2030 or whatever it's supposed to be, they would still use only one eighth of what professional golf or golf courses use now. And so like, it's not a thing. And like, by the way, like everything uses water, like your jeans, like all the things in this studio, like everything requires water, but water is part of a water cycle and water doesn't disappear. (1:17:30 - 1:17:39) So like, I don't know. I think that's one thing that I've seen a lot of. And I see the like concerns around AI and creativity and like what's true and what's fake. (1:17:40 - 1:17:57) I think that is really real and that's why like discernment is so important. But I'm, but that's, I think actually something really we should worry about versus the group think stuff about the fear mongering of like the AI, like resources, I think is fake. And it's really the women have like already grabbed onto it. (1:17:58 - 1:18:04) So. What always needs to be a boogie, a boogie man. Sorry, a boogie person. (1:18:04 - 1:18:10) It always needs to be a boogie person. Yeah. And like, what's the new? Let's not gender the boogie man. (1:18:10 - 1:18:16) Okay. Yeah. Well, like what's the, like the new thing that has to come about? And it's like, again, we come back to identity, like a person's identity. (1:18:16 - 1:18:30) They only know their identity in reference to the opposite. There has to be a boogie man in order for me to like have value and know where I stand. You know, it's very interesting to see how that dynamic plays out, but it's always something new, you know? Yeah. (1:18:30 - 1:18:52) One of my favorite Emerson quotes is that a person's opinion of the world is also a confession of their character. You know, it's when you see the world is running around like headless chickens, constantly afraid of something, you know? It's always something new. There's a really funny Instagram reel and it's like someone's like, the liberals have gotten their new talking point and then they like come and he's like, I like Maduro. (1:18:52 - 1:18:58) I like Maduro. And you're like, it's like downloaded the new software update. Maduro is great. (1:18:58 - 1:19:04) Venezuelans should not be free. And that's how I feel like it's like AI uses water. AI uses water. (1:19:04 - 1:19:19) So there's this amazing writer, former activist Patrick Moore, who founded Greenpeace. And he has a book called Invisible Catastrophes. And he goes into all these invisible, and so climate change is one. (1:19:20 - 1:19:53) And the thing that connects them all is you can't see them, right? There's no way you can go outside and verify yourself. And genetically modified food is something that is really people are afraid of, but since the dawn of time where we could pick the bigger banana and decide to use that, food has been genetically modified. And anyway, it was interesting because I was just recently reading that and how in the early 2000s, people were protesting genetically modified rice that ended up saving millions of lives in Africa because it was resistant to one thing that allowed it to grow longer and la la la. (1:19:53 - 1:20:02) So I think we all have our biases and we want to think certain things are really bad. And like, oh, microplastics is another one. Everyone's really afraid of that. (1:20:02 - 1:20:24) I think that has not really been debunked, but there's a lot of research out there that's like, it's not even really a problem because again, like plastic, I mean, it's a carbon based plastic, which means it's just like plastic means something can connect to each other. So like, wait for the microplastic fear mongering I see, because people say, I don't care about climate anymore. Now I just care about the microplastics in my brain. (1:20:25 - 1:20:31) And then like that study just got debunked. So there's always something. There's a lot of poisoning fear mongering as well. (1:20:31 - 1:20:44) And I think our bodies are very, are a lot more resilient than we give them credit for in terms of how the bodies like the self-regulating, self-healing mechanism to a certain degree, of course. Yeah, to a degree. Well, that's the discernment. (1:20:44 - 1:21:26) Like I think, I know, like with every single thing, you have to kind of look at it and say, I want to take this one, take each topic as its own versus like resisting the idea to like categorize. Well, now I'm going to say every time I'm worried about something, like it's a hoax, right? Like, you know, just like looking at, looking at it and like trying to, from a grounded place, be like, what evidence do we have? Like, I know we are talking a little bit about maybe it was off camera before like vaccines. And it's like, is every vaccine actually an issue or like are certain ones worse? Or is it when you give it to the kids? Like versus just thinking every single one is completely bad or like with plastics, it's like, is plastic always bad? But we are wrapping our food in it to keep it fresh. (1:21:26 - 1:21:51) But like, maybe we just don't want it in the ocean because turtles eat it, whatever. And so I think, yeah, I think it's really important to just, you know, keep up that practice of internal discernment and power and not fall for the fear-mongering that can maybe come from the side that's like, now I'm more biased toward. And also the impact that fear has on your body, that has on physiology, you know, and how that can cause adaptations. (1:21:52 - 1:22:05) Like, you know, it's like the belief that I'm strong and resilient and I can live in an environment that isn't perfect. Right. What kind of person has a certain, that person has a certain kind of life versus someone that is afraid of everything. (1:22:06 - 1:22:16) Yeah, so true. And also to be incredibly wary that there's always more layers of groupthink. Like you shed one layer and you're still susceptible of falling into another layer. (1:22:16 - 1:22:43) And even in like this world that we find ourselves in now, it's important to never just outsource the authority of one's mind because it's important to just revert to our new favorite influencer or our new favorite talking head to be like, oh, what's their opinion on this? And then just assume that opinion because we agree on other opinions about it. So you're correct. And like, okay, let's look at each thing on a case by case basis and let my own mind be the final arbiter of truth based on where I am in the journey of understanding that particular topic. (1:22:44 - 1:23:03) Yeah, and that practice of saying like, oh, what do I actually believe about this? And what is my opinion on this was a huge thing for me when I was leaving groupthink because I was so insecure in what my beliefs were because I felt like a lot of the things that I started to gravitate toward, I was like, oh, that's actually the wrong opinion. Like that's sort of a conservative opinion. And now I do that practice a lot. (1:23:03 - 1:23:18) Like even the Free Press, we publish so many things every day and like just even doing the exercise of like, oh, do I really agree with that take? And then reading it and going, I agree with this, but I don't really agree with that. And like, I liked this piece, except for like, he kind of glazed over like solar and wind here. Like, you know, it's a piece about something completely different and I agree with it. (1:23:18 - 1:23:29) But then he talks about renewable energy completely wrong. But then like the rest of the piece is fine. And you're kind of like, oh, he's obviously like not as informed on this topic as I am, but I like three quarters of this. (1:23:31 - 1:23:45) And yeah, just trying to not stay, just don't be emotional and be like humble, humble what your opinions are. And learn the skill of not throwing out the baby with the bathwater, which we see way too often. I mean, you're in charge of social media. (1:23:45 - 1:24:08) I mean, just witnessing people's behaviors, like someone who they respect and admire says one thing they disagree with, you have to announce they're unfollowing them and then have to say, I can never believe anything that you've ever said in your entire life because I disagree with you on this one thing. It's so, I mean, it just highlights like intellectual and emotional immaturity, in my opinion. Yeah, the comment section is like the most interesting place of the internet. (1:24:09 - 1:24:19) Well, I mean, that's kind of like when I scroll, I'm not, I mean, I don't post as much as I used to in the past, but I like to see how human beings relate to one another. Yeah. And how they communicate and it's really fascinating. (1:24:19 - 1:24:28) Yeah, it is. Yeah, yeah. What is your personal relationship with like the use of AI? Like you're a writer yourself, you work in social media. (1:24:28 - 1:24:51) How is your discernment involved in terms of your integration with, you know, using AI as support and help in your creation? I like it a lot for grammar because I've always really not been a good grammar person. And so I love that I can write something very sloppily and say like, make this grammatically correct. That like gives me a lot of confidence that I did not have before. (1:24:51 - 1:25:04) So like, I really like that. I also love to do like a voice memo transcript for an idea for a video and then like have it be like, make this like into a script format for me, like that kind of thing. So I use it for stuff like that. (1:25:04 - 1:25:22) But in regards to like the statistics and stuff, it's so... It's horrible. It's well, the facts about like climate change stuff, it's not on the climate realist side. So I have to like almost feed it information and then have it reply back to me because I cannot really get reliable information from it because of how it's sourced. (1:25:23 - 1:25:29) Yeah, it still defaults. It defaults back to like mainstream, even if you have limitations sometimes of where you have to remind it. Remember the conversation that we had. (1:25:30 - 1:25:51) Yeah, so but I use it for like some, or like even like taking like a photo of like a page of a book and then like having it transcribe that for me, like that kind of like, like that thing I like. And also I think the longer that you use it, the more you sort of see where its limits are versus when you first use it, you're like, this is so cool. And now it's like, OK, I see the patterns of like how you talk. (1:25:52 - 1:26:10) You're very affirmative, like, wow, that's a very enlightening take, you know, and you're like, thanks, chat. Yeah, the issue I have after engaging with, I've been engaging with it for some time is now seeing everyone with like, it's so obvious that it's AI copy. Yeah, that's the thing. (1:26:10 - 1:26:18) That's just like I like want to read the post. And then once I get like a lick of it, I'm like, oh, it's just too obvious. You can only spend 10 minutes changing some elements. (1:26:18 - 1:26:29) Yeah, yeah, yeah. My personal opinion on it, which is no, that's so true. But I feel like I use it a lot to like translate my like spoken like word into a like script or something. (1:26:29 - 1:26:44) And then I have to go back and then like put it back into my voice or be like, you change this way too much. Like, I want this to be 100 percent in my voice. And then, you know, so it's like this kind of pull, push and pull where you would almost use like an editor like normally. (1:26:44 - 1:27:00) Well, yeah, that's that's I think where it's a benefit because it's like people have people who do copy for them or edit. And it's like you almost have, especially if you're like a solopreneur doing, you have someone, a support system that can help you in a way that other people would be helping you in other situations. No, it's huge for that. (1:27:00 - 1:27:08) I think it's it's so nice. I mean, I can't understate the grammar thing like, but I agree with you. When I read original writing and you can like feel what the cadence of it. (1:27:08 - 1:27:17) And it's just like unique. And you're like, this is not AI like that, like it's like eating like a rich food versus like take out like you can like tell. But like it is interesting. (1:27:17 - 1:27:25) I don't know. And then we talked about like my fear of writing and the writing thing. And like, I don't know like where, like, am I a writer? Am I a speaker? I'm a speaker who like then like voice memos and then to write. (1:27:25 - 1:27:32) And everything's kind of like molding into like the same. It's a communicator. So like, I don't feel like my pros are the best. (1:27:32 - 1:27:46) I feel like I'm just more like straightforward and like connecting dots in a more like conversational, like logical way. But some of our writers, the free press who are like writers, like they're pros. I'm just like, wow, like AI could never. (1:27:47 - 1:27:59) Well, the value of the arts and the skill of actual writing is going to become so much more obvious as everything becomes diluted at this plateau that AI can provide. You know, I think. Right. (1:27:59 - 1:28:06) Like it's like the base level is like risen. But now like getting past that. Yeah, that's such a good point. (1:28:06 - 1:28:15) But I'm like definitely not afraid of it. I think that's just another thing to keep people in a box. Like it's obviously here for us to wield. (1:28:17 - 1:28:20) Totally. For sure. Thank you so much for your time. (1:28:20 - 1:28:25) I really appreciated this conversation. And like just your journey is such a unique one. And I think a lot of people are going to really resonate with it. (1:28:26 - 1:28:53) One thing I did want to say, which I didn't say before, like you mentioned, like being accused of like being a privileged person because like your parents paid for your college and stuff like that. It's like, how is that a negative thing? Like, isn't that a privilege for once? Isn't that how we should be living? For our parents to make things easier for their children, as opposed to this idea these days that all inheritances just go to charities and all the rest of it. Like, when did we stop becoming interested in building legacies? Right. (1:28:53 - 1:29:11) For our bloodlines, for our families, for genuinely wanting to, you know, stand on the shoulders of the generations that came before. Like if that's like that's when it's a reclaimed privilege in that sense, like, yes, that's a privilege we should all be striving for and yearning for as families and legacy builders, in my opinion. Of course. (1:29:11 - 1:29:18) And also that's the family. That's the family unit. And that's a thing that's powerful and unique outside of the power of the government. (1:29:18 - 1:29:28) And so that's, I think, why that gets vilified, because that is not giving up its power to the government. And like, it's like, because it's like, if my parents weren't doing that, I'd be taking a loan from the government. Yeah. (1:29:29 - 1:29:35) You know, so yeah, I agree with you. It shouldn't be radical to like be proud of your family and having like married parents. Yeah, exactly. (1:29:36 - 1:29:42) Oh, wow. My parents stayed together and gave me a decent baseline for how to be in the world. I'm privileged. (1:29:44 - 1:30:07) Lucy, is there anything you'd like to say in closing? Just, you know, that's on your mind or present for you, for the audience? I think on the themes that we're talking about, just the importance of, you know, going toward that authenticity and listening to that inner knowing and spark. You just don't know where it will lead. And so just taking that first step can really transform your life. (1:30:07 - 1:30:18) And that happened for me in this past less than a year. So I think if people are listening to this and they're still have a they think they can't do it or they're afraid, like know that that's part of the journey. Right. (1:30:18 - 1:30:25) But that you need to listen to that inner voice more and it will just get louder. And then it's fun. Then you get to get to come on podcasts. (1:30:26 - 1:30:38) Man, you just think all the message. And also to the fear, like when you're part of the group and, you know, you get your support from them and you get your sense of who you are. And then when you leave, there's a lot of fear. (1:30:38 - 1:30:53) But when you do start speaking your truth, like the tribe that you attract is like I feel like even more spectacular, you know, when you feel like, oh, no one's going to agree with who I am. And then you find that there's more and more and more and more people that align with you in this way. And then you feel better about yourself. (1:30:53 - 1:30:57) So anyways, thank you for being you. Thanks for the work that you do. I really appreciate the time with you. (1:30:57 - 1:31:06) Thank you guys both so much. How would you like to like direct the audience to get in, you know, I guess, a deeper touch with your work before we wrap up? Oh, yeah, yeah. Go to Lucy Biggers on Instagram. (1:31:07 - 1:31:17) And then that's me on TikTok as well. And then on Twitter, I'm LL Biggers. But then otherwise, also check out the free press, which is thefp.com. And I'm aware of the free press on Instagram. (1:31:18 - 1:31:20) Amazing. Yeah. Cool. (1:31:20 - 1:31:26) Well, thank you so much once again. And to everyone listening, we'll see you next time. Thank you so much for listening. (1:31:26 - 1:31:43) So good to have you with us, you know, week in, week out. If you're a regular listener, if this is your first time, we really hope you got value from that conversation. And we do encourage you to hit that follow or subscribe button wherever you're listening so you can continually get updated with our episodes. (1:31:44 - 1:31:56) We really feel as though we sit at a unique crossroads, you know, in the media space because our emphasis really is on you. It's on your inner world. We'd love to talk about these topics. (1:31:56 - 1:32:42) We'd love to talk about what's happening on the surface level of reality, how culture is shifting, how geopolitics is changing, how, you know, the collective ideas are shaking. Yet it always has to come back to the stark reality that for whatever reason you were born, which means that now you exist. And why is that? And who are you? And what do you really want to do? And what are your unique interests? And have you positioned yourself in life where you can actually have the inner freedom to pursue the things that are interested, that uniquely interest you? In a way that no one else can and no one else has, because that is the most valuable thing. (1:32:43 - 1:33:24) And that's what we're always going to remind you of week in, week out, is what are you doing? Are you taking small, actionable steps towards your authentic desires? Do you even know what your authentic desires are? Are you able to separate your conditioned beliefs from what's really coming from the wellspring within you? Like Erasmus and I were just talking previously how different our constitutions actually are, even though from a human design perspective, we're both generators, we're both emotional, yet from an astrological perspective and a physiological perspective, we're completely different. And so my journey is different to his journey. And it's like, we just want you to know yourself more than anything else. (1:33:25 - 1:33:36) And in knowing yourself, that's only one part of the game. Acting on that deeper knowing and walking a path as a creative being is so freaking important. I don't have anything to add to that, man. (1:33:36 - 1:33:43) Well said, I agree 100%. And I'm just so grateful that we get to do what we do. We get to have these conversations. (1:33:44 - 1:33:58) But more importantly, that people actually want to listen, that follow this podcast. And it's always great to hear from those of you that email us, that message us to say that this podcast has impacted you. Because for me, it's a big reason why we do it. (1:33:58 - 1:34:10) I mean, yes, I do it because I love it. And at the same time, I want people to feel like they can grow, evolve, and be educated in ways that allow themselves to move forward in their life towards the things that they want, everything that you were just talking about. Yeah. (1:34:11 - 1:34:37) And one thing that I do want to say is that no matter what you are experiencing right now, no matter how far astray you feel from your authentic purpose, I promise you that the best life is possible to you. But it begins with courage and it begins with a small step in the pursuit of actually knowing yourself and walking a path that honors yourself. And that's what we're about right here. (1:34:37 - 1:35:01) If you head to hereforthetruth.com, we have a varying amount of resources to support you in that process. You can check out our membership community or if you want to go real deep straight away and get to the crux of what is happening in your internal world, we have our flagship program Rise Above The Herd, which you can undertake at any time. All that's available at hereforthetruth.com. We love you. (1:35:01 - 1:35:06) Thank you for your support. And we hope that you tune in again next week.