David Whitehead & Gavin Nascimento Truth Warrior Roundtable II: Israel & Palestine

[Speaker 1] (0:00 - 3:50) Welcome back to the Here for the Truth podcast. I'm Joel Rafiti, got my co-host Erasmus with me as always. You guys asked for it, and so here we are, round two, Truth Warrior Roundtable. David Whitehead and Gavin Nascimento are joining us once again on this roundtable format, this time to dive deep specifically into the topic of Israel and Palestine. We get into their personal history with this topic, where their viewpoints currently lay, and we have a nice back and forth, really trying to build and develop more nuance around this topic for all those who are interested. I think you guys are going to absolutely love this conversation. I don't think a conversation like this has been had on this topic, usually these things, and absolutely, horribly, and lots of charge takes place. But I'm truly proud about the way this conversation went. I agree. I don't think there's a conversation like this on the internet, exploring this subject from so many different angles and nuance, and for it, again, to be had in a respectful manner where each individual honors the other person and shares a little piece of their mind and where they're coming from regarding this subject. Yeah, guys. All I can say is just bask in the greatness of these two incredibly diligent researchers, two of the best in this game, in terms of what they do, in terms of how they're able to discover objective reality, do their research, and just really express and share these topics in a digestible way for individuals to be able to expand their awareness around them. I hope you enjoy it. Alright, everybody. Welcome back to Hear for the Truth. This is the Truth Warrior Roundtable Part 2. We have David Whitehead and Gavin Nascimento with us once again. Incredible feedback from the previous conversation we had together with Truth Warrior Roundtable 1. I highly recommend you check that out if you haven't. I'm not going to go through the means of introducing these two once again. I think there's 11 or so episodes combined now with you both. So, guys, go check those out. But needless to say, absolute legends in the truth-seeking game. People were grateful to have these conversations with. Now, today, we're diving into potentially the most difficult and most controversial topic to talk about and to try to obtain objective truth around. Something that's recently been sparked up again and has once again entered the forefront of the collective psychology. It's the issue and the conflict surrounding Israel and Palestine. And I guess to open, the reason that I want to have this conversation and particularly get used to together to have this conversation is that I just sense so much moral confusion and so much discontent and uncertainty around this topic. People within the truth-seeking movement are conflicted about it and have conflicting points of view. And each time I think I'm finding footing on this subject, once again, I get thrown a huge curveball, which takes me for a loop again and I find myself lost in the wilderness. So, thank you both for being here and thank you both for willing to have the conversation. Thanks for having us and shout out to you guys for doing such an awesome job hosting these conversations. They need to be had. And I'm definitely happy to be here and good to have Gavin back again. [Speaker 2] (3:51 - 3:55) Likewise, I echo all those sentiments, man. Let's see, man. [Speaker 1] (3:55 - 4:26) Well, I guess to kick off, to I guess lay some groundwork and lay some foundation, I just want to ask both of you in terms of your personal journey and history with this topic, how your personal viewpoints have shifted over the course of the years you've been, I guess, surrounded by this topic and just, yeah, your personal, I guess, relationship with it, so to speak. Whoever feels called to kick off first, I guess. Well, sure. Or go ahead, Gavin, whatever you want, man. I'm cool. [Speaker 2] (4:26 - 6:43) Easy going, brother. Okay, I'll jump in here. For me, actually, the way that it all started out, I used to be a very non-political person. I was the kind of guy, whenever politics was entered into the discussion or religion, I didn't shy that much away, I suppose, from religion because I was more of a religious person. But I took no interest whatsoever in politics and unthinkingly, kind of incredulously, I sided with Israel and the dominant narrative that the government is just like this innocent bystander, this proverbial David surrounded by the Goliath evil forces of the Arab Muslims. And I kind of just blindly accepted that. And it was coming from a place of religious conviction. I think there's a lot of Christian Zionists out there who mean well, but they approach this topic, not necessarily from an objectively, earnestly insightful one, but it's more rooted in religious conviction. And I mean, I like to say that good intentions are not synonymous with good outcomes. And as I dug into this, I actually had a good friend of mine who he is a Muslim, an Arab Muslim. And then he told me, look, man, and he's one of my best friends, we grew up together. So I know him beyond religion. And he told me, look, man, what's going on is these people are being oppressed. I thought, come on, Rez, you're just saying this because you're Muslim. I mean, what else could it be? And then as I began to objectively look into it, and the place that I learned about this, because it's such a difficult and highly charged topic emotionally, was from Jewish scholars, from ex-military forces. And I think it's imperative that people do that. And as you dig deeper and deeper into the history, it just, it snowballs, man. So that's my personal experience with a particular topic. I was actually somebody that I suppose changed my perception as I began to dig deeper and deeper into it. [Speaker 1] (6:46 - 15:54) Thanks, man. For me, it was, I mean, my main objective with doing any kind of public work was to get to the bottom of the bigger global geopolitical perspective, specifically how it relates to the ancient story of humanity. And religion was my first doorway into researching a lot of this stuff. I was raised a Christian. So I grew up hearing a lot of stuff about Israel being part of prophecy and all of this. And I had a knee-jerk reaction to a lot of the fundamental principles of religion. And so I went on a study, even as a young kid, just studying my own religion. I was raised a Christian. I don't come from, I'm not a Jewish person. I'm not a Muslim person. I'm just a Canadian guy born and raised here. And I was raised as a fundamentalist, I guess more like a Baptist style Christian, even though my grandmother was more Catholic. So I basically got all the sides of the Christians growing up. And I was like, well, I need to go and look into the history of religion. So I dove into comparative religion and mythology, and then found my way into realizing that there's a bigger political connection to a lot of these things. And that as much as we like to say that there's a separation between church and state, it's absolute bullshit. And we're going to get into exactly that as we talk today, that it's way bigger than I think a lot of people can even imagine. And then I've learned over the years, I guess I grew up listening to Max Egan, David Icke, and a lot of those guys who painted the picture of the Palestinian cause in a very particular way. And so I bought into that. So I'm almost in an opposite situation as Gavin, not completely opposite because I believe that there's evil on all sides, and there's a bigger thing going on that's here. But I feel like context matters. And I feel like I developed a curiosity to go, well, hold on a minute, I've only been listening to this one side for years and years and years, and having my entire opinion formed by that. And I've still to this day, not been to Israel or Palestine, I've not been there. I've spoken to people from both sides of it, people that live on the ground over the years. I've researched it to the best that I can. And so I guess where I'm going to be focusing my discussions and my arguments today is going to be trying to hopefully get this debate conversation that you see all over, because I've probably watched, I don't know, 17 different debates on the subject, just to see where people are at and listen to the arguments and hear it out. And then say, okay, what's my job? Because my job is not to be a representative of Israel and not to be a representative of the Palestinians, because I am not from those camps, and I haven't had the personal experience to be qualified to really weigh in on it to that level. However, I'm not going to say I don't have an opinion and I can't have an opinion, because I have been studying this and I've been really studying it recently, especially since Joel asked me to come on and talk about it. And we've been doing this research on enslaved for a long time to get into some of the bigger pictures of what's going on within the world of Islam, as well as everywhere else in the world and how it figures into the role of secret societies throughout history and many other things. And I guess I'll just tell you quickly my first reaction. There's a video that I did. I did a drive with Dave. This was two days after my father-in-law basically passed away in front of me. And then I heard about this attack that happened October 7th. And immediately, I saw everybody splitting into two camps again. And we just had the whole divide over COVID and vaccines, and then all these other just... It was like a tidal wave of information overload and psychological warfare that's been going on. And it's just... I saw nothing but division. So, my initial reaction is, and I still hold to it, well, why are we demanded to pick a side when we're looking at this? Now, I don't believe you should just sit in the middle either because there's great arguments to say that the middle ground is where the real evil is because of the fact that you're not really focused on the truth and it takes courage to take a stand for what you do believe to be the truth. So, I've been wrestling with that a bit. But my first impression was there's something bigger going on. This was Israel's 9-11 basically. And someone let this happen. That was my first impression. It was like someone let the guards down. How do you have 12 to 15-hour response times and the most sophisticated intelligence network in the world just suddenly hit the snooze button that day? What happened? And so, I just kind of went, look, there's probably another conspiracy going on here. There's probably something going on. And we just got off the back of all this stuff with Ukraine and Russia, and that divided the world. And we're still going through that and the whole Trump thing and everything else. I went, this is just another thing. And then as I've continued to look into it, I discovered something happening in the background that I'm going to go through in a little bit that will bring a different context, I think, to this. And I'm now leaning more, in some ways, towards the Israeli people and the Palestinian people versus the deep state corruption and the radical corruption that exists on both sides. And it's kind of like, how can we get to the truth about this, but also try to find a way forward? And really, I think that that's the goal here, is that when we discuss these and even some of the points we're going to debate, the purpose of it is to provide the listeners with the arguments that they're probably not hearing, the information they're not hearing, for the purpose solely of trying to think in a solution-oriented mindset about the issue. Because we all want peace, freedom, truth, and justice to reign supreme again, not just for Israel, not just for Palestine, but in all of our countries and around the world. I live in Canada. I got my problems to deal with here with my government. But I've been also arguing about that. Because my government is corrupt and it's run by someone like Trudeau, should I give up on the values that established my country? Should I give up on the people that live here, that love living here? So, these are the ideas that are in my head and the things that got me to where I'm at. And then I started to realize that so many of the main talking points that I was taught in the alternative research community, I've had to now rethink all of them based on this information. Not to throw it all out, but just to say there was a lot of missing context and a lot of missing information that might either help people become more balanced in their thinking, or it might drive them insane, who knows, but we're going to find out. And I guess that's the best way I can give you my opening remarks there. Thanks, man. And just to clarify and potentially simplify in a broad strokes way, the primary alternative view that you're speaking about when you reference David Icke and Max Egan. I mean, in a very broad strokes simplified way, you can correct me if I'm wrong is that Zionism is the root of all evil and the Palestinians are the most oppressed people on planet earth. Is that right? Exactly. And then of course, that also brings up the Jewish question, which I hope we can get into because that's really where I have a little more expertise than this particular conflict, but that's exactly right, Joel. You nailed it. Okay. Well, I guess the first thing, which you already referenced, which I'd like to bring up is this whole question of October 7 potentially being a false flag event and what ramifications will occur if that is the case. And because there's so much that's dependent on that actually. So, I mean, we have Israel potentially being worn by both US and Egyptian intelligence. We have a group of apparent guerrilla militia breaching one of the most highly secure, sophisticated and defended borders in existence. Like you mentioned, no response time from the IDF for 12 to 15 hours and whoever went through there was able to run savage. Was the Iron Dome defense system operating? Usually not even a pigeon can land on that wall. Supposedly they were on high alert from the Yom Kippur holiday, which was a few days before from what I understand. We have this story of 40 beheaded babies, which made us rounds on the front page of every media outlet, even announced by Biden and then retracted and reported as false. And that was huge fuel for the collective response. And we have this quote from Netanyahu, where he says, anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. So your guys' thoughts, false flag, not false flag, where are you at? I'll pass it back to you, Gavin. [Speaker 2] (15:58 - 23:47) All right, 100%. So this is a very good topic to begin with. So for myself, I think it's very appropriate that they called it their 9-11. Somebody had meticulously looked into 9-11. And this notion, it's very similar in its corresponding themes. For example, when you had the US breaching the most sophisticated airspace, these ragtag Arab fighters with box cutters. I mean, it's just the most obscene conspiracy theory you can imagine. And then, yeah, the Israeli military, which is the fourth strongest in the world. And then technologically, it is arguably the most advanced, some would say. And now we also know very similar to what took place with 9-11. Oh, there was foresight, they had been warned it was going to happen. And there's this ridiculously long period in which their response time is down. And I mean, how do you get taken by surprise? Ordinarily, the eyes on this area, especially in the wake of, like you said, this kind of celebration, this commemoration is extraordinarily high. So to me, I don't have incontrovertible evidence. And because I don't have incontrovertible evidence, I'm not going to say 110% false flag. But do I lean towards it? Yes, I do for sure. And it's not just based on objective reasoning and understanding how politics is, right? It doesn't have to be about the state of Israel. It's just about objectively assessing how politics works and has worked historically. Beyond that, what I also know, and not everybody is entirely aware of this, I think more people may have become aware, because one of the benefits, if there is any kind of benefit from these horrible conflicts taking place, is it tends to have the collective community of the world dive into all of the information. And then it naturally raises the awareness. And as we raise the awareness, we can better align ourselves with the truth. One of the things that's taking place currently in the state of Israel, is there is a huge power grab, a power reach on the part of Netanyahu's administration, where they are trying to actually supersede the Supreme Court of Israel. And so there's a lot of internal strife within Israeli society. There's also a very large number of young people that are refusing to go to the military. So whenever you have internal subversion from the standpoint of a ruler, just introductory politics, that's the first threat you have to pacify. And historically, there's actually an exceptional article from Haaretz. Now, unfortunately, a lot of their content is behind a paywall. But because I'm somebody who's really interested in this topic, eventually I broke down and I paid the fee to get access to their content. There's a brilliant article on Haaretz about how Benjamin Netanyahu, as you alluded to, has had a policy since he's been in office to in fact prop up Hamas. He's worked very closely with them. And this has been geared towards essentially keeping the existing status quo to an extent, ensuring there's no unity between the Palestinian Authority and Hamas. And then at the same time, I think from a greater standpoint, and this goes deep into history now, some of you may have heard of the Greater Israel Project. Well, this has its roots in something called revisionist Zionism. I don't know if you're familiar with that term. But revisionist Zionism, to keep it very simple, and the father of this movement was a guy named Vladimir Zehev-Jabotinsky. The father of that movement, and to keep it very simple, the ideology behind it is to expand the borders of Israel, even beyond the occupied territories. So into Jordan, and just constantly expand these borders, kind of to the ancient kingdom of Judea or of the 12 tribes of Israel. Even though this guy was, he was not religious. He was secular, but he was happy to use that because he was an exceptional propagandist. And the significance of this guy, aside from the fact that he actually is the most commemorated figure in Israeli history, there's several dozen institutions, roads, buildings, even the headquarters of the dominant political party today are named after him. The significance of him is that the Likud party that's in power today, they are disciples of his ideology, and this was the Greater Israel ideology. And it was very uncompromising from its inception, from its very beginnings. And he actually wrote a publication, an essay called The Iron Wall in 1923. And he laid this out very unambiguously. He was very objective about it. He said, look, we want basically a kingdom of Israel, a Jewish state. He didn't put it in a term, the kingdom of Israel, but it's ideology that goes back to like ancient times, allegedly. And so they want this state and they know that they're going to have to eventually engage in conflict because they want to displace the Arab majority with a Jewish majority. So he's very objective in his assessments about doing this. Anybody can go look it up. That's The Iron Wall published in 1923. Today, the Likud party, which grew from this guy, and just to be very clear, this dude, he was a radical. He was also one of the founders of the Urgan. The Urgan were the people that committed those horrible terrorist attacks during the 1940s, the King David Hotel bombing, the Diasin massacre. This party eventually grew into what we know today as the Likud party. So it's interesting. I found a letter from Albert Einstein and other prominent Jewish figures in the U.S. where they were actually warning the world about a guy by the name of Menachem Begin. Menachem Begin was a huge disciple of Ze'ev Jabotinsky. And Menachem Begin, he was actually the commander in charge of the Urgan when they committed these terrorist attacks. They killed all these civilians in these massacres and stuff. And so he created something called the Herut party. And Einstein and them, in a very precognitive letter, they said, look, they're pretending to be democratic. And as far as he's used, they're pretending to do this, but inwardly, they have very fascist tendencies. And so he warned, he said, look, if we start to give American support, because he was touring America, then what's going to happen as a result of that is going to rise like a really strong fascist party in Israel. So anyways, the Herut party became the dominant power. Menachem Begin actually became the prime minister of Israel. And the majority of their prime ministers and presidents actually legitimately came from terrorist organizations historically. And Benjamin Netanyahu, he is the third head of the Likud party. And his father was actually the assistant secretary to Ze'ev Jabotinsky. So there's this longstanding ideology to expand the borders. And the reason why I've been painting this very large picture here is I believe that part of the reason why Netanyahu has propped up Hamas is because it creates a situation where you can continue to expand the borders, but you can do so with the justification that you're defending yourself. So for me, and again, I wouldn't say I have absolute incontrovertible evidence, I do lean towards the belief that yes, it was a false flag attack. Now a short break from the episode. [Speaker 1] (23:47 - 32:40) Hey, everyone, if you're listening to or watching this episode and just being like, wow, man, just the ability of these two men to communicate, to be grounded, to be clear, like that just doesn't happen by accident. You know, you have to really know yourself. You have to have a healthy mind, body and spirit. And everything that we we focus on in in Rise Above the Hurt, our eight week group coaching program is really to get individuals to that place where they feel super solid in who they are, their ability to communicate, their ability to know themselves, their body, to to be able to set boundaries, to to to live their truth confidently and stake their flag in the ground about who they are and what they value and to communicate it super, super consciously. So our next round of Rise Above the Hurt begins March 26th. This is our ninth round. We've done it eight times and it's had a major impact on many people's lives. So if you want to come on this journey with us, you want to get deep, you want to grow, you want to continue this self-development process, jump on board. We'd love to go on the journey with you. For any information, go to riseabovethehurt.co or press the link in the show notes. Back to the episode. I actually appreciated how you rolled that out, Gavin. I really liked how you rolled it out. I haven't heard about some of those aspects, but that's very interesting. And I'm in the same boat where I don't have any evidence that it was a false flag, but I can look at it from a few different perspectives because what you can do is look at the movement that's happening right now around the world. I mean, think about it. Think of the timing of this particular instance. This is where my conspiracy brain goes is, okay, they're trying to create what again? Oh, right. A world state. They're trying. So this is, to me, these little internecine battles and all the things going on on both sides and all that kind of stuff. I try to zoom out and go, I don't have all the facts on all of that, but I do know where the ship is headed run by the real power players, the high table, as we call them, that are looking for this great reset. They want this new world order. They want it controlled. They want all land, whether it's in Israel or whether it's in Canada or in Mexico or doesn't matter, Papua New Guinea, all land, every blade of grass to essentially be officiated over by a tiny unelected bureaucracy run from wherever Davos or whatever it's going to be. And so when I think of it from that perspective, and then I look at this instance, I could look at it in a few different ways and forgive me, and especially the listeners, as I go through some of my points in this discussion and I play different sides and different theories to you, I'm only expressing, I'm not expressing, I'm trying not to express confusion on the issue. I'm trying to think. I'm trying to think this through. And sometimes when you're trying to think this through, you have to go, okay, theory number one, this particular event, somebody let it happen. That's one theory. It was actually like an inside job kind of scenario of some corrupt Israeli officials or Mossad officials or military officials. I don't tar and feather every single one of them, but the rest of the world tends to do. I look at each individual that's involved. I'm not a collectivist, so I don't judge collectively. And I would give the same due to Palestinians, the Arabs, the Muslim world. I would do the same thing. I would look at, okay, we have to judge this on the merit of each individual involved and figure it out. But I would say, okay, theory number one would be someone let the guard down, just like they let the guard down with JFK, 9-11, all these kinds of things. And maybe someone's going to make an argument that's plausible to say, well, we know why this intelligence failed. But I was even listening to an interview with Yousef Haddad, I believe. And he's a Christian Arab who lives in Israel and he's also in the IDF. And he was saying, his argument was, and I'll have a little clip later just to kind of give people that perspective, because a lot of people I don't think know that like 20% of the Israeli population are Arab. And they work in hospitals, they're members of the IDF. I think people here that I talk to, they just think everybody's Jewish and it's this big Israeli Jewish state when you have secular, you have atheists, you have Christians, you have Muslims, you have these variety of people living in the state of Israel. So then I go, okay, so there's the people living in Israel with their goal of living in a Western democracy that has Western values, just like I'm living in Canada, as corrupted as it is, hopefully living a little closer to Western values than say, I don't know, Saudi Arabia or something, right? But then there's the government, then there's the forces of the government, which I've spoken to many people from Israel that are pro-Israel and they're on the Israel side, but they all admitted to me, they're like, yeah, a lot of people in Israel have a problem with the government and the way that it's run. And they have questions about what happened, who let it down. So the nuance of it is either this was an accident that was taken advantage of, because this is how I look at it, is some of these conspiracies, you can argue it was allowed to happen, it was planned to happen to achieve the result of what you're looking at, Gavin, with your theory there, which is very plausible. It could have been that, man, the stars aligned, everybody dropped the ball, too many of these guys were on vacation. There's the argument that the Israelis were sort of lulled to sleep because there'd been a ceasefire for a pretty extended period of time up until that point, at least officially. And then they just kind of dropped the ball and that's how it all fell apart. To me, I still don't, I'm not buying that right now. I don't have the... But then I would say it doesn't matter because the predator in the grass, as we call it on Unslaved, which is the real high table that's pushing everybody towards the centralized dictatorship, they know how to take advantage of naturally occurring events to foment or stimulate events. You just have to sometimes, it's like a bully, you don't have to throw the first punch, but you can say the right word and you can get a few little side jabs in there to provoke the reaction, which is actually another aspect that we have to look at, like Saul Alinsky's playbook is literally to provoke a reaction and then make your moves, your guerrilla moves, your guerrilla tactic moves off of the reaction of your enemy. So, one argument could be, well, Israel did this because they want to take over all the Middle East with Jewish state. Meanwhile, keep in mind, we just learned that right now in Israel, there's not just Jews living there, there's secular Arabs, everybody else. But the other thing could be that there's also a greater subject that I want to just lay out for people at a certain point. We don't have to do it yet, but I want to get into this thing we've been talking about on Unslaved called Islamocommunism, which you're not going to hear that term. You're not going to learn about this from... Very few people are going to talk about it. And you could argue that there is a dropping of the guard that took place within a corrupt faction, within Israeli government intelligence or whatever, that was allowing the door to open, knowing that the response from Israel would be epic, it would be horrific, it would be brutal, right? But that the reaction that would happen naturally could be sold around the world through the protests, through the Muslim Brotherhood plants all over the Western world right now to foment a greater movement of revolution on the backs of the deaths of these civilians and everything else and the way they're doing with the media to achieve this greater push to destroy Western civilization. And this gets into the alliance. That's very strange. And this is one of the points. I'll just say this point. I'll let you guys respond. I'm sorry. I'm going on as well here. But one thing that was like a big question for me, and I'm sure everybody listening has this question, is how the actual fuck has there been an alliance between the woke left, the queer LGBT groups in the West, the feminist groups, it's been happening since 2014, and Islam of all things. How the hell does that mix? Don't they understand what they're getting involved with that? And only when you start to get in the underlaying, what's behind all of that and that these alliances were made a long time ago and they're still in place today, can we maybe get to solve that riddle? And hopefully we can solve some of these other really bizarre things that have happened since this conflict erupted. So I'll just leave it there for now. [Speaker 3] (32:41 - 32:41) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (32:41 - 38:13) Yeah. Thank you gentlemen for your intros. I think the interesting thing to say here that I want to highlight is, I know you said earlier, David, about picking a side or standing in the middle, but with something like this, I remember people going off on people in the first two days because you haven't picked a side. And yet just in this opening dialogue and the things that you both said, there's so much unknown. There's so much history. There's so many different points of view. And so to have to pick a side within a week or else you're demonized, can we just also be able to say, I don't know yet. I don't know. I want to continue this process of investigation. And this goes for a lot of the subjects that we highlight that are more controversial and are littered with a little bit more confusion or many elements of history around it. So I just wanted to drop that in there because I think a lot of people in the world today get so much pressure to have to pick a side immediately or else they'll be canceled. Yeah. I love you brought it up. I just want to say something really quick, Erasmus, is that I was thinking about that too, because I don't like that. I just had to do a crash course of studying Russia, Ukraine history. Now I'm doing a crash course of studying Israel, Palestine, which was a subject I never really dove into. And now I'm eternally fascinated by it. I can't put it down now. I've bought like maybe 10 books. I've listened to every debate I can find and discussion. I've tried to hear it out and I'm just so fascinated with it. But maybe the overall positive thing that might be happening on the macro, I was saving this kind of discussion for the end, but we can start with it, is maybe this is what we all need. Maybe the literacy rate in the West and the education rate that we have is so low that at the very least, the one positive thing, and I'm not saying that this is so positive it should keep going on, I'm just saying we have to try to turn lemons into lemonade here, is that we are all upgrading our knowledge of these subjects and our history and the history and also getting good at hearing different opinions. Just learning how to hear different opinions at the same time and not dive all in and just get all the facts as much as you can. And maybe sometimes you're going to swing one way for a while and then you're going to come back, ah, but that guy's got some points and that guy, that's healthy. It's good to try to go through that. So I just think that overall, that could be one of the positive things is that, especially us living in the West, where we're not there. And many people that I know never studied what's gone down in the Middle East and that kind of history, or even studied Jewish history or Islamic history. This is an opportunity to really learn as much as you can. And that's why I'm keeping my position still open, ultimately, because there's still facts that need to be brought to bear. But I think that that's a very healthy mindset is that, why are we being told we have to pick a side? I think there's also a social media psychological warfare campaign going on to keep people jumping and pull the rug and anxiety and, oh my God, and then tension and division. And they want that division that's happened for so long between Palestine and Israel. They want that same kind of division to continue throughout the entire world. So that's kind of where I sit with it. Yeah. Thanks, man. One thing that I want to add in regards to, you mentioned 20% of secular atheists, non-Jews living there. The Israeli land authority owns 93% of the land in Israel. And under Israeli law, they can only lease that land to Jews. Just to balance that equation a little bit, only those who would qualify as Jewish under the law of return. And so we hear people talk about Israel as a capitalist society. I mean, private property is the bedrock of capitalism. Yet we're talking about a country where 93% of the land is owned by the government, which I consider a slight contradiction in that regard. Could there be, Joel? And I'd have to look at that because I still find it funny that even though that is, I guess, the case, I don't have that information in front of me. How is it then that we still have within that context a 20% Arab population that serves as Supreme Court judges, that are valedictorians in universities, that are professors in universities, that are working as doctors and physicians at the top hospitals, that are servicing there and that love living there because they love the values. They don't like the other oppressive regimes that they've come from. And that you also, we have to take into consideration the context of the founding of Israel and where it actually came from. And that there might've been originally a purpose for that given the time, given the area, given the region, and whether that should still be in place today. Hey, I'd have to see them all be debating this themselves. That's up to them to solve. But I still say, hey, maybe there's a reason for that. I'm not saying it should be there now, but there probably was a reason back then given the pogroms, given what happened in Germany and everything else. So, then you go, all right, let's unweave it in 2024 and see where that sits now. So, I just wanted to add those little bits in there. [Speaker 2] (38:13 - 42:34) Yeah. Can I also chime in a little bit on that one? Okay, cool. So, in terms of that policy, that's actually been an existing policy for a long time, long before the Holocaust ever took place. So, that was already going on either the late 1800s or the early 1900s and this is going to blow your mind. But initially, the guy that was actually in charge of the immigration to Palestine, a guy by the name of Arthur Rupin, okay, he was a German Ashkenazi Jew. And it's important to make this distinction. People don't realize, for example, even with, you get Arab Jews as well, Mizrahi Jews, you get Sephardic Jews, you get Ashkenazi Jews. There's three specific distinctions there. Ashkenazi Jews are more like European, West European, and also America. Then Mizrahi Jews are the ones that come from like the Middle East and the Sephardic Jews are like Spanish, the Mediterranean area, and Portugal. There was actually a very strong movement of Ashkenazi Jews, specifically Arthur Rupin, for people that want to go look it up. His last name is R-U-P-P-I-N. They were eugenists and they actually had this ideology where they wanted to establish a state in which they would be a superior Jew, an Ashkenazi Jew. That was actually, he was so obsessed with this, and he was in charge of that position for over 20 years, that he dictated and he prevented a lot of Jews from actually immigrating to Palestine because they didn't fit his criteria. So I wanted to mention that that actually has been a policy for a long time. There was a commission by John Hope Simpson. A lot of the times people point to the fact that there were a lot of Jewish people that went into Palestine, specifically the very wealthy ones, and they paid these large amounts for the land and they paid for it fairly and squarely. In some instances they even overpaid, and this is true. There's actually a lot of this emanates from the John Hope Simpson report. But although it's oftentimes quoted, what people don't quote is the fact that he actually came to the opposite conclusion, that he believed that immigration had to be restricted because he saw that there were a lot of very underhanded things going on. One of those things was they had this huge purchasing power, and through this huge purchasing power, when they would purchase the land, they would ensure that only Jews could be employed there. Now it didn't matter if you were actually religious, because, and we can get into this hopefully, there were actually radical leftists that were very prominent in the founding of Israel. Radical leftists who had a nihilist view of the world. So they actually weren't religious, they scoffed at religion, they scoffed at Judaism, and there was also an existing conflict between those who believed and those who were non-believers. So long story short, this problem of having only Jews work the land, that's been in existence for a long time, and it actually has its roots as well in this extreme left group that was behind the founding of Israel, and it wasn't just them, it was also extreme right, and also this eugenics movement. The eugenics movement in Israel, it's going to come out, was a very powerful movement. People don't realize that because it seems antithetical. Then the other thing I also just wanted to mention with the Arabs, I don't know the demographic of the 20% of Arabs living in Israel that are like patriotic, they enjoy living there, and I can see how that's plausible and possible, because the things I've heard about from people that live there is, I would say, mostly as a generalization, I don't want to say I'm the supreme authority on this, but they do seem to be content and happy. However, we also need to bear in mind that prior to the immigration to Palestine, there were large numbers of Jewish populations in different countries. Professor A.V. Schleim, who himself is a Jew, he talks about in the Middle East, how they were actually very happy within the country that they were living, they assimilated very well, and it's probably in proportion somewhere around that figure. So I don't think it's indicative of an upstanding society. But I thought, yeah, let me go ahead. I'll just add a little bit of historical context there to complement what you guys pointed out. [Speaker 1] (42:36 - 46:15) Yeah, and again, I'd have to look at that and the sources, and I mean, I'm not even arguing it. I know that the founders, the real founders, especially from the Europeans, the West, that they call the Ashkenazi or whatever, and we can even get into what is a Jew, we can get into that down the road. But the thing is, it's interesting to me that it was secular Jews that were pushing for it the most, and they were basically enthralled by a lot of Jewish lore about the land, the history, going back to Judea, all these types of things, and Palestine being given a name by the Romans, right, and all of that. And I know too, Gavin, that what you're saying is that leftist component on the Israeli side is definitely strong. I mean, I know even in Israel, it's a very strong, I think it's close to 60, 70% advocate for more socialist policies in Israel, right? So I guess what that really proves to me is not to say, oh, who's more evil than the other? It's that this actually kind of clears up a lot of the confusion that I think exists in our sort of alternative research community that look at all Jews as being some kind of alien species that are just given to conniving, conspiratorial, revolutionary action. Whereas what I'm going to be showing you, what I'm looking at is the fact that it's the ideology on both sides that is the corrupting force. It's not racial, it's not genetic, it's not just because you're Arab or you're Palestinian or you're this or you're that, that you're automatically a Jihadi, but just in the same thing as the Jews. You're not just because you live in Israel or you're a Jewish person or you even stand with Israel that you're some evil conniving, evil Zionist, tunnel Jew and all that kind of stuff, right? The history of this antisemitism is a subject in itself that can at least give context to people for the back and forth of the insanity of the history of that region that goes way back before the founding of Israel in 1948 or 47, right? So this is way bigger. And then you always have to go, well, then we're just talking, that's just a superficial layer of history of these peoples. And sometimes the Jews were welcomed in Islamic cultures and sometimes not. And it's back and forth for a long time. But then you can always zoom out and go, yeah, but who's the bigger picture that's going to take advantage of these things to achieve other agendas that are going to enslave both Jews and Arabs and Western peoples and first name everybody, right? So what I was going to ask here, Joel, if it's okay with you, unless you had some more comments first was I just had a short video that I think I just spliced it together. It's just two commenters that I just wanted to play just for people to listen for what I felt to found to be a little bit more of a moderate side, even though these are pro-Israeli, they're residing with Israel on this. I wanted to hear what they had to say just to pull out a few points. And then I'd love your guys opinion on it if that works. Yeah. I just want to add for those curious on the history of antisemitism and the Islam or communism that David's been speaking out, we've done a whole episode on that with Michael Tasarian, which you can find by searching The Jewish Conspiracy to get that backstory there. Go for it. Oh, right. Yes, definitely go and check that out. And we've been doing boatloads of stuff on Unslaved about it. So let me just pull this up. I'll share my screen. I'll play it. Let's hope this all goes well here. You might have to share sound as well, if you know how to. What's that? Oh, okay. You have to share sound as well. Oh, share sound. Click. Done. Optimized for video clip. We're doing all the good things here. [Speaker 2] (46:20 - 46:25) I love you guys. Love you too, man. [Speaker 3] (46:28 - 50:19) I've seen a lot on the social media that this war is between the Jews against the Arabs. So let me clarify. First of all, when Hamas invaded Israel, they killed Jews and Arabs. They kidnapped Jews and Arabs. My country released six terrorists in order to bring back Aisha and Bilal. Two Arab Muslim Israelis were kidnapped by Hamas. So don't make this war Arabs against Jews. It's not. I understand his pain. I understand his plight. I understand that the innocent person in Gaza, who's hearing the whistle signature of a bomb coming, is not deserving of that. But that's what it takes. It takes a universal moral compass that says, wait a minute, forget about this specific battle, as horrifying as it is. What's the bigger issue here? It's a civilizational issue. It's a battle between different visions of how societies should be organized. Do the Palestinians have the right vision? If so, we should all be thinking about organizing our societies in the manner that they do. If not, then we should be perhaps being a bit more careful in where we lay our support and saying, look, all other things equal. I prefer the values that are enshrined within the West because I like liberty. I like freedom of conscience. I like freedom of speech. Well, do all of the rulers of the Palestinian territories share in those values? If yes, then we should all be signing up to support their cause. If no, then supporting Israel is not just about supporting the Zionist genocidal apartheid state. It's about supporting a democracy. In Israel, Supreme Court judges are Arab Israelis. Valedictorians in universities are Arab Israelis. Physicians in the top hospitals and nurses are Arab physicians, many of them. People in the military, including officers in the IDF, the genocidal apartheid regime of Israel, they're Arab Muslim Israelis. How many Arab countries have Jews who serve in their parliament, who are valedictorians in their universities, who are the top physicians in their hospitals, who can speak freely about issues without worrying about anything? Oh, wait a minute. No, there are no Jews in any of those Arab lands. We don't know what happened to them. It's a mystery. It's probably they disappeared because, you know, Zionist occupation. So again, one has to have a grand sense of what's at play here. It's a battle between completely radically visions of varied societies. Most Palestinians are undoubtedly lovely people. I know many of those Palestinians. I'm friends with many of those Palestinians. Many of those Palestinians are fans of mine. So I don't have to be lectured about the fact that there are good people and bad people on any side of the conflict, right? They are asshole Jews. They are lovely Jews. They are nasty, brutal Palestinians. They are lovely, kind, and hospitable Palestinians. That's not the issue. The issue is it's a fight for different visions of how they could be optimal flourishing for individuals. [Speaker 1] (50:19 - 52:34) There we go. So just wanted to put the arguments there that that's Gad Saad. He's a Canadian professor. He's a Lebanese Jew. Okay. And he is arguing that the argument needs to transcend just getting into the weeds of this and thinking about the bigger picture about what is this ultimate conflict really all about. And I think he's also sitting here in Canada as I am thinking about how this impacts Western civilization in general and the direction that we're going because I'm living here in Canada being told that I am a Ku Klux Klan occupier occupying first nation territory and that I should go back to Europe. That's what I'm being told in Canada. And it's a very similar argument that you're seeing in other Western democracies around the Western world that it's the same thing that's being pushed. And so I can't help but think that there are forces at work. This is sort of zooming out of the devastating consequences on the people, both in Israel and in Palestine and elsewhere. We don't even talk about Yemen and all the other stuff going on for some reason. But anyways, that we have to zoom out and look at this as we are in a fight to save the values of the civilization of the West. That doesn't mean there isn't corruption. I mean, we wouldn't exist as conspiracy theorists if we weren't here trying to critique and fix and mend the problems there. There are many people, many Israelis that are there trying to critique and mend and fix the deep state corruption in their midst. And the one thing that we have an issue with is we know that if there was an election held in Palestine tomorrow, would they bring Hamas back into power? Well, all indications are that yes, that would be the case. Now there's reasons for that. I'll grant you that. But what is the bigger movement by the forces that are playing above all of this? Well, their goal is to destroy Western civilization and to destroy those values. So we got to keep that in context as well as talking about these other issues that we've already sort of gotten into. [Speaker 2] (52:36 - 52:40) 100% can I get in on this? Yeah. [Speaker 1] (52:40 - 53:59) You can get in on this, man, for sure. One thing that I just add quickly, it's easier said than done to zoom out on 30,000 to 60,000 deaths. Easier said than done. It's actually easier said than done to actually quantify that number too. So that's also an issue. And it's also, why aren't we talking about the thousands of Christians being slaughtered in Africa? Or what about Yemen? Over 600,000 innocent civilians under Islamic rule. So nobody gets out of this unscathed. And this is why the picking sides thing, again, is kind of naive. And we have to zoom out and look at the universal evil that can exist in any culture at any time. But what's the corrupting force? It's not genetics. It's not these things. It's ideas. It's bad ideas. And what ideas are going to survive the conflict that's not just happening in Israel-Palestine. It's the conflict happening all over the entire world right now. Because the globalists at the top, they are wanting to eradicate any semblance of Western values and freedom, free speech, these kinds of things. We've already experienced it. So that's where I feel like it's actually quite simple to zoom out and look at it from that perspective. [Speaker 2] (54:03 - 1:04:23) So 100% I agree with, I mean, not obviously everything that David was saying. There's a lot to unpack here. So I'm going to take notes here. I'm going to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 address each point. But the first thing is, yes, I like the holistic approach that David's actually had from the beginning, which is there's a much greater agenda here, man. And we need to be very mindful of that. One of the things that I also tend to consider in relation to this conflict that's going on there, which it's remarkably, profoundly complex. And just from when I gave a couple interviews, a few months back, I've taken a quantum leap in my awareness of what has happened historically and in the present time. But what's very significant for people to realize is far beyond what's actually happening in the more palpable sense, we need to consider the more spiritual and tangible sense, which is this is a had or conflict and division between the Abrahamic religions. And that represents, I'm not a religious person. I would consider myself to be a spiritual person. There's a lot to be said about that in terms of a philosophical debate. But we need to obviously be mindful that the Abrahamic religions dominate the overwhelming majority of the population. So beyond what takes place on the ground and that you can measure in a more palpable sense, there's also the fact that this creates unprecedented division between these Abrahamic cultures. And for people who are at the highest levels of power, who they could give two shits about religion beyond its utility for the purpose of population control, it's a very useful tool. So that is something that we definitely need to be mindful of. Then to add and compliment on that, in terms of them attacking this notion of Western civilization, I try to simplify it, man, and view it as more because it's a philosophical debate, right? Western civilization, on the one hand, people can point out all the noble and good things, and they would be justified in doing so. But then on the other hand, people can say, oh, but what about colonialism? What about the overthrowing of democratic governments by Western establishments such as the US government or the British imperialism? So it's a philosophical debate, and it's very difficult then to dig into that because you have polarizing views. And that's when we start to argue about perceptions. And we all have different perceptions, right, based on where we were, where we grew up, the experiences we've had. Instead, I try to simplify it from a place of principles. Is this simply right through the lens of humanity? Is this okay behavior? It's not about skin color, like David was saying. It's not about religion. It's nothing to do with that. It's about the endurance of certain ideas, both good and bad. And I think all of us, invariably, are vehicles for that. We have to kind of choose, like, what am I going to embody to the best of my capability in terms of an ideology, and then help to amplify that for the people that come after me. Now, just very quickly, to expand specifically on the video, I would argue that Israel as a state is definitely not a democracy. I just took a couple notes here. So first of all, they've been prolific in censorship long before the lockdown. They were prolific in censorship to the point that even bloggers, they were considered to be jeopardizing national security. That terminology is ubiquitous amongst the powers that be to essentially censor anything that you're unhappy with, even going off to just regular bloggers. So there's been a military censor that people, including bloggers, they have to go through. So that's very undemocratic. At the top of the list for me, and I suppose if I took some time to think about it, maybe something could supersede it, but the free flow of information, the free flow of awareness, the free flow of knowledge, granted that you aren't leaking high-profile secrets that can destroy some kind of military blueprint or whatever, but just simply highlighting what you are concerned with. Once that is repressed, anything ceases to be anywhere near, nearly associated with democracy. Of course, democracy itself is a philosophical debate. I've had a lot of critiques on that, but of course, we have to have a pulse on public opinion always, not necessarily just our own view of the situation, but public opinion views democracy as being synonymous with freedom. In that regard, I would argue, no, it's not. So that's just the censorship. Then at the moment, the state of Israel has more than 1,000 people detained without any charge or without any trial, and this includes kids. That's crazy. That's absolutely insane. What's called the fight or the Declaration of Independence, the War of Independence in Israel in 1948, of course, on the Palestinian side, or let me say a larger demographic from the Muslim side, is known as the Nakba or the catastrophe. This was outlawed as being taught in Israeli society, not even recognized. That's just insane. I don't know if that policy still stands, but just a few years ago, that was still in place. There's also a group, I actually made a video, I don't know if you've all seen it, I definitely recommend checking it out, where I collect the testimony from all of these ex-Israeli officials, military officials that were on the ground. So we're talking about ex-special forces, we're talking about checkpoint police, and I managed to compile over 50 of their testimonies. Now, of course, I'll cut it short here because I know people have, unfortunately, the attention span of a goldfish, all right? But if you sit down and do the painstaking thing I did, which is you listen to all of their testimony, you see the correspondences and you find out what's going on, and it's absolutely disturbing. It's insane. It's crazy what is going on there, the way the population is treated. David, you would be fascinated and interested by this topic because it's very calculated psychological warfare that they engage in against the civilian population, and outright terrorism. Now, the significance of me mentioning this is that group, Breaking the Silence, they have been recognized as a major force that has been subversive to the Israeli government's plans in spreading their kind of campaign of what they're doing. So much to the point that they actually outlawed Breaking the Silence from going to schools and talking to kids about it, which again, that's very undemocratic. And in relation to that as well, we also know that this democracy enforces, they've got mandated military service, and if you refuse, you can be arrested, you can be thrown in jail. Also, very undemocratic. And then, like Joel just pointed out, just to wrap it up, with the whole, the majority of the land being owned by the state, right? That's not really privacy of ownership. And we can make, like you were saying, maybe there's a reason for that, right? And we can always fall back on that kind of as a mood discussion. Like you said, there must be a good reason for it, hoping that there's a good reason for it. But what I'm seeing with the state of Israel from its inception, man, and I'm just saying this objectively as somebody who's earnestly in pursuit of the truth, is that it seems to be a Machiavellian state. And I specifically use that term because it was, Machiavellian is one of the most infamous and probably the most controversial passages. They said, you need to appear religious, you need to appear benevolent, you need to appear good, so that you can get public opinion on your side. And of course, it's not clear-cut, right? I would say it's like 50-50. It's very divisive. And then just, sorry, one last thing, just to quickly comment on, and then I'll hand over the mic. Sorry, man, I don't mean to hog this over here. But what you were saying about the ideology and the values, I think that's the most important thing for us to focus on protecting. Because if we get in these philosophical debates about, oh, I'm protecting, let's say, Western society, there's going to be people who are going to throw in your face, like, you know, colonialism and imperialism. And then, of course, you can make the other debate that, no, that doesn't really represent. And the things that ended that were people within Western civilization anyways, right? But instead, I try to just focus on the principles, like building a wall in which deception is dethroned, and truth is enthroned, in which authentic freedom is enthroned. And this kind of manipulative mental subjugation and slavery is dethroned. And where the free flow of awareness and information becomes like the policy, you know, let's exchange knowledge. That's why I'm so excited to do this podcast, man, because we can get into it, and we can kind of raise awareness collectively as the greater goal, as opposed to where they flood us with ignorance, and they try to shut down debate. So for me, just in terms of the whole ideological standpoint, and the protecting of Western civilization, it's almost analogous, and I'm sure you're familiar with this, with the event of the Protestant Reformation. And Protestantism, for those unfamiliar, it's to protest around the Catholic Church. And this was a group of Christians who began to protest against the Catholic Church, and then comes all these new denominations, Lutherans, and Calvinists, and Anglicanism, and all these different offshoots. But essentially, they both just represented a very authoritarian structure. It was something called the Radical Reformation. Very few people know about this, because the leaders were killed, the teachings were oppressed, and they were talking about authentic freedom, higher principles. And I'm not saying they were without fault, but I think in the midst of this debate, oh, you know, you've got this world culture, which is fucking detestable. And then, oh, we've got this older system. It was kind of shitty in a lot of ways, but we got to protect it. I think we need to still focus on the greater goal of enshrining our human principles, and being human beings, that we genuinely pursue a higher state of evolution that empowers the common people from all ranks of life, and also holds the parasite class accountable, without getting too hung up on what feels like a very controlled conflict in some ways. You've got to choose this side, you've got to choose that side. So, let me just go ahead and compliment on that. And my apologies, man, for being so long-winded. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:04:23 - 1:19:38) And one thing I'd add is, when we talk about Israel, we're talking about perhaps the most draconian state when it came to COVID. First to roll out the vaccines, one of the strictest policies on planet Earth. So, I've got questions when we talk about defending Western values when it comes to Israel. I see the broad strokes argument, but at the same time, there's lots of questions that come up for me in that regard, particularly when you bring in the potential pretense of a false flag. What are we even talking about then, if that's the case? Even when we talk about the creation of Hamas, with Israel potentially playing a leading role in that, that just changes the conversation again. Go for it, David. Right. I'm glad you brought up the COVID thing, so I was going to go there too. So many points. I only had a few disagreements on Gavin's side, but not many. I liked how he rolled it out. I don't want to get stuck in the weeds on that stuff. But in general, I definitely agree that we're trying to evolve this. The one thing I would always say is, when we're talking about it being a democracy, and I'm with you on getting into that debate, but I look at it like, because I understand democracy could be mob rule, and there's all the problems with that, and even the founding fathers of America warned about it and everything else. But what are they teaching the Palestinian kids in their schools? What's with all the videos of having these kids, and this has been going on for decades, of having these kids trained as young kids to actually practice executing Jews? And actually the mantra and the entire culture is about killing Jews, and they're saying it. We're not just talking about Hamas agents saying, we're going to do October 7th over and over again. We're talking about Palestinian civilians. So why? Because they're being indoctrinated by that brand on that side of the fence to continue this conflict. So when we point out the flaws that are in Israel, we must also sit here in our Western countries right now with the freedom to stream right now and have this conversation, even though I've had my YouTube channel taken down. I've been censored. I was censored from day one, covering the elections in America, COVID, everything else. But will I go and move to an Islamic state? Fuck no. Evil is evil, but there is lesser of two, that you would say, okay, do we want to see the flaws that you pointed out in the Israeli government? And maybe even in the Israeli culture, do we want to see that continue going in a better direction? And how do we achieve that? Well, we've got to look out and route out the infiltrators that have infiltrated their midst, the evil that's grown up around them. And then do we want to see change happen on the Palestinian side? Absolutely. Because we want to end this war. We want to evolve the human race. We want to get everybody off all the drugs of these ancient archaic religious ideas. And then preserve also the good part of those religious ideas in all of these cultures. So this is why it's such a tricky minefield to get through because anything somebody says to advocate for the other side can be construed as, oh, you support the whole package. It's like, it's the whole package deal that Ayn Rand argued about. She's like, no, the truth is in the details. It's not the devil that's in the details. It's the truth that's in the details. And so if I'm sitting here in Canada, every day on my ex account, I'm going after the policies of this ridiculous, rogue, evil, corrupt, deep state government that has infiltrated my lands here, where I live. And I say that by saying where I live. It's not how to own it. I'm not trying to make a Western colonialist argument here. I'm just saying where I live. I'm here as a person in my country trying to fix and have a positive view of how to fix those problems. I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater and say, you know what? The Islamists are right. Islam is the one thing that's been missing and that's what we just need to keep bringing into the West. But on the same token, I'm also not going to say, oh yeah, all those left wing Jews that are all in support of socialist ideas that are probably at the root of corruption that started to rot their midst. I'm not going to hold back on criticizing that either. But that still doesn't negate the values and the principles that we're striving for. And this kind of goes into something that I heard, I think it was Peterson or someone was talking about it, where he's like, there are no... Right now, it's not that we're... We always want this final solution to happen, which I'm an optimist and I hope there can be for the human condition. But he's like, but really what we have are compromises along the way, because not everybody agrees in the same solution. If I talk to the number one Islamists that have infiltrated my Canadian government, trying to bring that very archaic ideology into Canada and into Canadian policy, right? Or in Britain, where they have what, like over a hundred Sharia law courts in England, in London, England, right? And you look at the demographic change that's happened in only 10 years, you go, there's something happening where the corrupted ideas are getting promoted in all of our countries. So the corrupted principles are being promoted in Israel to the Israeli people. And I would actually say that there's this other contingent of what you would call, this is what we talk about on slave, that we're not dealing with an arch ring of Jews that are trying to run the world. We're dealing with these, we call them the setians or the atonists, these groups that are, they're not beholden to any public religion or culture or faction. They're beholden unto themselves. They have private religious worship, private cults, private ideas that they're trying to insinuate into the world. And they know how to play us off each other like pawns on a chess board. And so to me, that's always the number one target is Israel has some routing of evil out to do. Absolutely. But are we going to honestly sit here and just play oppressor versus oppressor, which was born in Stalinist Russia to talk about this conflict? Or can we have a more nuanced discussion about the evil that has penetrated both sides that absolutely is linked to ancient cult ideology? I don't even use the word religion. This is ancient cult ideology, the dark side of Judaism, the dark side of Christianity, the dark side of Islam. But there's a good side too, that would be worth preserving. So that's why I don't just sit back and go, fuck all the religions and fuck all the Muslims and all these. I'm like, no, we've all become corrupted because it's the human condition. And then we've got this predator in the grass that's always trying to find a way to keep poking the, keep fueling on these feuds. So I just wanted to say that. And then just this point about, oh, is that a really democracy? Oh, COVID, right. Israel and the Jews in Israel, or the people in Israel were, yeah, the number one lab experiment for the jabs. First place to take it on the chin, everybody was what, four or five jabs, whatever. I find that interesting because if Jews run the world and Jews are the arch conspirators, to me, that's the biggest piece of evidence to just start saying, okay, let's start going down this rabbit hole and really figuring it out. It's kind of the same way as you have people like Moses Mendelsohn, who was one of the co-founders of the Illuminati. And he's hobnobbing with Giuseppe Mancini, who was an Italian revolutionary, who was infected with this radical left-wing ideology. And Mendelsohn was himself as well. And so conspiracy theorists are going to go, oh, see Mendelsohn, the Illuminati was started by a Jew. And I'm like, well, don't forget about Loyola, Jesuit priest. And don't forget about these others that were colluding together about the same ideology that was actually born in the Masonic secret societies back in the 16th, 1700s, which I covered in my occult conspiracy presentation, the birth of these toxic ideas. So those ideas come out of there. They flood all the religions. So you have the red papacy in Rome, who was, you had originally a more conservative government. And then you now have what the Pope is running around with LGBT, queers for this and that, and let's have a world government. And listen, he's basically giving you the same talking points as like Kamala Harris and Joe Biden. How did that happen? How did the Roman Catholic church go down the woke rabbit hole? So it happened in Christianity. They insinuated themselves into Christianity, this ideology, these ideologues. It happened to Judaism as well, a hundred percent. And the Jews need to know about that. Get into the fourth, what was it? You would call it the order of Melchizedek, the Sadducees, the Pharisees, these groups. These aren't Jews. These are elite, wealthy, Parthian setians that trace their lineage back to Egypt. So this means the ideology comes in to Judaism. Then it comes into Islam. And this is what blew me away. And this is what I'm fascinated about. And this is where my slides will go whenever we get to that point. And I'll be very quick with them. Is that of all the religions on earth, you would not expect a patriarchal, extremely totalitarian Islamic culture to suddenly start allying with leftist organizations and communist organizations and socialist organizations. You wouldn't expect it. You think, what, how did that happen? Islam's getting infiltrated with this stuff. So that means those three religions just on their face, the Abrahamic religions have all been co-opted. And I'm not even saying the originals were perfectly pure either, but just that they got taken in this direction by the real globalists, the real Nazi communist international to inject that into the cultures because religion was the doorway to do it. And then I even did a presentation called the dark side of Tibetan Buddhism. Everybody's sitting there going, Hey, I've never heard of like Buddhist terrorist attacks and all this kind of stuff. And they must just be hearts of gold over there in Tibet, just sitting there meditating on the mountain. And then you go, yeah, all that covering off and you'll find a pedophile cult, a satanic cult that you wouldn't even imagine. But does that throw all of Buddhism out the window and say the entire tradition is evil and every Buddhist walking is a pedophile Satanist? No. So this is the nuance that's missing from this. And Gavin, I absolutely love that you have the mind for this and I know you boys have it, but this is where when we expand it, we go, all right, fair play on the points to the evil that has rotted out the Israeli government. And again, I separate that from the people. We could say the same about the Palestinians and they've got their ideology had been raised in this. They've been raised in conflict. They've been raised with toxic ideology and they've also been suffering. So there's motivation to keep that going. But then there's the question that nobody wants to ask. And this was the stuff that people like Ayn Rand and many others brought up that was a very much in your face argument. Does an oppressed people have any responsibility in their oppression? That goes for Jews, Muslims, Christians, atheists, people living in the West, people in the Middle East, doesn't matter. All humanity. What role, what responsibility do we play in voting in dictatorships, voting the evil ones in and buying in to the little carrot on the string that they've crafted a particular one for the West and a particular one for Christians and a particular one for Muslims and Jews and all these groups. They've nailed this centuries ago that they can keep us following that carrot and having us play along. So they're guilty for that, but we're also guilty for buying it. Maybe not you and me, but I'm talking in general over time, our culture. So the rot that's happened in the West that you're pointing out that the leftists are going to go, look at your colonialism, look at all this kind of stuff. And you're like, yep, there was evils done, but we also brought a light to the world. And we also work to fight that. And we're not out of the woods yet. And there's plenty of to go. And I'm the number one person doing that. But what do I defend? I defend the idea that was the founding principle that allowed for even something like free speech to exist so we can have this conversation. And that kind of free speech is not popular in the Islamic world because they're kept under a particular ancient spell that is keeping that out of their lexicon of thought. But does that mean there aren't Muslim reformists that are trying their damnedest not to get their heads chopped off and also try to espouse those values in Middle East? What about the Shah of Iran? Why did they kill that guy? Look at the photos from Lebanon. I got friends from Lebanon back in the 1950s and 60s of the women who were very Western, very beautiful. They were showing their faces. And what came in was this radicalized Islamic ideology that was there to stop the formation of even an Iranian or Persian civilization from thriving. We had Jason Georgiani to talk about that. What happened in America? An amazing stand against the British Empire happened. And then what happened the next day? Oh, in come the infiltration from the Bavarian Illuminati groups founded on the same day incomes. So then you go, okay, and then Canada and all these countries. So what's happened is we've been taken over from within, but we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater like the leftists are going to say and just destroy the whole thing. What we're doing is critiquing the rot so that it can be repaired. And that's why I say the Israelis need to do this. The Palestinians need to do this if they even want to. We need to do this and realize that the common enemy is not a grace or a group or even a religion. It's the bad ideas. It's this radicalized left-wing, all this extreme ideology that was crafted, tailor-made in the secret societies that have been permeating our midst for centuries now. And so we got a lot of digging to do and that's why it's very complex. And that's why I don't side with all the activists that are burning it all down and build up the new communist internet. No, that's the argument of Klaus Schwab, and I'm not a fan of that guy and I'm not going down that particular avenue. So that's just my points on it. I tend to agree. I don't believe that there's one group or race that's at the root of all evil and I don't believe in collectivizing anybody. So I don't know, Gavin, if you have anything to say to that. [Speaker 2] (1:19:39 - 1:23:29) Well, I've always got something to say, but I 100% agree with what David is espousing there, man. And this has been so frustrating for myself as well, man. Either it becomes anti-Semitic or it becomes Jews run the world and they are both equally ridiculous. And the thing is, neither one of those... For me, it's very simple, man. If something cannot be corroborated by reality, which is to say, the evidence is demonstrable. If you cannot corroborate something with reality, then it cannot be corroborated by truth. These are the same things. Truth extends beyond our perception of reality. Okay, let me not get too hung up on this philosophical stuff, but essentially... I'd love it personally, so you're good. But I wholeheartedly agree with what David's saying, man. I think we need to constantly refocus on this greater enemy. And they don't give a shit about religions. They precede the establishment of religions. And for them, they see that we actually all have an inborn desire to be part of some kind of tribe, right? Tribalism is actually inborn, but that tribe is humanity. And we have a blueprint, the overwhelming majority of us, of course, is a very small minority of legitimate psychopaths. But we have a blueprint in which we genuinely want to be aligned with the truth, with integrity, with kindness, with just simply doing the right thing, being a decent person, right? In fact, I would argue in relation to the establishment of what David articulates as Western civilization, I would say that the best aspects of that have been created by just regular decent people. And in the toxic sides of the colonialism and the imperialism, that's on part of the elitists. And they always do it in a very calculated way where it appears to be beneficial, right? Oh, we're going to go help them because there's cannibals eating, you know? Or in the modern era with the neocons, we're going to go there because there's terrorists, right? It's always something that seems beneficial and it plays on our inborn desire to actually create a better world and snuff out the evil. So I think it's so important that we're 100% we do that. One thing I do want to comment on aside from that is this notion of blowback, man. I think it's so significant that people understand the human psychology behind this because it's true on the micro level and on the macro level. So I'm somebody, I come from a crazy background. I grew up in a very violent home. And oftentimes what happens is you become an echo, right, of the world in which you grew up in. And so naturally, as I grew older, there's a bit of opposite direction where I had a very violent response to bullies. But naturally, you become a product of your environment. Now, the deep irony is if you look at the pogrom that took place in Russia, in the Kingdom of Russia, it created a great deal of radical left terrorism, like legitimate terrorism. And very interesting, there was a group that had all kinds of members, including some figures that were instrumental in founding Israel. It was called the People's Will and other associated groups. It translated from Russian into English, the People's Will. And they embarked in a lot of high level assassinations. And one of them was actually Tsar Nicholas II. And it's very interesting, people can go look this up. This is actually considered to be the first suicide bombing attack. And there was an earlier attack that was attempted on the life of the Tsar by a Jewish Jew, but it was thwarted. Jewish, right? I mean, because nihilism dominated their views. So when I say Jewish, I mean, just it was in terms of their ethnicity. These were not religious people. They were dominated by Karl Marx view of the world and the opium of the masses, right, religion. [Speaker 1] (1:23:30 - 1:23:33) And so they were- And don't forget Marx was also Jewish, allegedly. [Speaker 2] (1:23:34 - 1:23:35) Yeah, exactly. [Speaker 1] (1:23:35 - 1:23:36) But he was an anti-Semite. [Speaker 2] (1:23:37 - 1:30:17) Yeah. And also just to comment on that very quickly, I actually took some notes here while I was listening to David. To throw out there to people that aren't aware of this, there was a great scientist by the name of Professor Lynn Margulis. People don't know her, but she is a pioneering scientist. People will know her better as being Carl Sagan's ex-wife, okay, if you want to go look her up. She put her reputation on the line. Highly prestigious scientist. And she came out and she said that 9-11 was an inside joke, okay? She's Jewish, right? So how can there be a massive Jewish conspiracy when what we see consistently is that you also have prominent Jewish figures such as Lynn Margulis, and there's another guy by the name of Professor Leonard Cole, who he actually helped me become aware of all of these bio warfare experiments that were going on millions of people that I had never learned about from any other authority, not the Jewish dude. So how is it that you've got these figures doing this if it's a Jewish conspiracy? So that's something we also need to be mindful of. And then, of course, you have the Rockefeller family member, you have the Black nobility, you have the house of Winslow, or Habsburg, or Aviz, all of these families, right? Are they Jewish? No, they're not. And unfortunately, you get to some people that are so far beyond rehabilitation that they'll say, no, they're crypto-Jewish. Some of these families actually precede the Jewish religion, but okay. And when you're talking with somebody like that, there's just no hope there. But I'm just quickly in a relationship blowback, and then I'll pass it on. Sorry, man, I don't want to get too hung up on it. But it's very interesting, the history, because after the assassination of the Tsar Nicholas II, what happened then was these intense programs, but the repression against the Jewish community had already been taking place very stringently. They were actually recruiting children into the military, Jewish children. And so a lot of Jews were very rightfully angry about this. And keep a long story short, they were radicalized, and they legitimately engaged in terrorism. And it wasn't just Jews, there were a minority. It was all kinds of people, but the Jews took most of the blame, which is why there were the programs. A lot of these figures started to actually migrate to Palestine. They went to other parts. Most of them actually went to the US, which is very interesting if you also look into that history. And this included two prominent figures, man. One of them was the first mayor of Tel Aviv. He actually was imprisoned for his involvement. And this is a legitimate terrorist organization. This isn't just me saying semantically, they were openly terrorists. He was the first mayor of Tel Aviv. And then the second guy was a guy by the name of, so after he was jailed and he came to Palestine on the patronage of Baron Edmund de Rothschild, who also played a very significant role in the founding of Israel. And then the second guy was a guy by the name of Pinas Rattenburg. And I may be butchering his name because I've only read it. It is very little information available to digest about this guy. But he was actually implicated in assassinations. He was also a radical left dude. And he was the guy that brought electricity to Israel. So a seminal figure, some seminal people in the foundation of it. But I'm kind of getting lost in all the details here. The whole point was that you get this relationship that goes back and forth where the abuser can easily start to become abusive itself. Even worse, if you look at the history of Protestantism, and the, I can't remember exactly the inquisitions, right, of the Catholic Church. Well, then a lot of these Protestant individuals, they went to other parts of the world, and they just kind of engaged in the same kind of methodologies. And if you look at the Rwandan genocide, what happened is you actually had the people who were oppressed formally, and then they went ahead and they committed the genocide. And so what I see as well with Palestine is that the people that get radicalized, it was a guy by the name of Professor Robert Pape. He wrote a book called Dying to Win, this was during like the Bush era. And he showed that there had never been a suicide bombing attack in Afghanistan until the US forces went in there. And the dynamics are, it's quite simple, people as a human being, it's kind of like scientific, it's not about ethnicity, it's not about race. But when you are put in a position where, you know, if you poke the dog enough times, guess what, that dog's going to bite you. That's just kind of the nature of how it works. And so I see that we're going back and forth. There's almost, you know how they say for one action is an equal reaction kind of a thing. And the ruling class, they use this to their advantage to not only conceal their involvement, but they're quite accustomed to get these two radical sides and it kind of ebbs and flows and it'll take on the mask of, let's say, Zionism, it'll take on the mask of Islam, it'll take on the mask of Christianity, mostly in the past. But at the end of the day, like David was saying, if we can focus on the fact that, okay, who's fanning these flames? Who's sharing this atrocity propaganda? Who has done this historically and consistently? Eventually, and I love the proverb from the Hunger Games, is remember who the real enemy is, because they're throwing us in this grand arena and they want us to fight each other to the death. But if for a moment we can disrupt that programming and we can take a step back and we can say, hmm, there's a greater enemy here. We actually have more in common as common people, as regular people, than we do with our rulers, right, at the highest levels, then we can unite in our common human principles that supersede our perceptions and pursue the answers. And I think what David was saying as well is so, so true and so important to bear in mind, that just because, like, for example, with me, I'm very much unambiguously opposed to the Zionist government in Israel. Okay, that's just how it is, because I've researched this meticulously. That doesn't mean that I side with the insanity that is personified by the Palestinian regime, or that I'm going to side with the one civilization or the other. Like, we need to call a spade a spade, man. If the shit stinks, it stinks, right? We need to ascend to a place where, again, the higher principles of humanity that are not the sole possession of one particular race, religion, or so on and so forth, and can be appreciated within all races, religions, so on and so forth. Like David was saying, don't throw the baby out with the But I think through all the fog, if we can stay focused on the proverbial trees, and we can pursue that, together, that's how we're going to be able to make the most headway, because you and I, we're going to be here today, we're going to be gone tomorrow. But the ideologies that we embody and we espouse, that is going to echo in eternity. [Speaker 1] (1:30:20 - 1:32:15) Wow. I love that. That was great. I liked how you did that. And it brought me joy to hear you talk about psychology. That's a huge thing. And then how it can be weaponized, how people can be played off against each other. We're dealing with mafia warfare here, and everybody's caught in a crossfire, and we can all split hairs. Like I said, I'm not in the position to make the specific arguments on the details, but I just go with what I know, which is the big monolithic conspiracy that really does exist, that is there to continually divide humanity. And then it's all about who's that? What are they all about? What do they know that we don't know? And it's just such a big story. I wondered if... Oh, and I was going to say too, we brought up Hunger Games. Remember how that film series ended? It was the innocent districts fighting against the powerful, evil, Mr. Snow, President Snow regime, who deservedly should have been routed out. And then what happens? They get replaced, they win the war, and in the end, you find out they were... Their legitimate movement was hijacked by basically a bunch of Marxists that took over and were planning their own dictatorship. And that's a good example of what I think is happening. And if you will permit me, and maybe I'll wait, because I'd love to hear some of Joel and Erasmus' comments here. I'll go through these slides, this rabbit hole that I've been on, to just give you what I think is happening. And we can look at it from a few different angles, but it's fascinating what I've discovered, how this, whatever's going on with this conflict, is being used as a weapon right now to infiltrate more into the West and continue the destruction. But I want to pass it over to the boys there, because you guys have been so patient and listening so well. So whoever wants to jump in. No worries. I love Gavin, the pronunciation of a penis Rutenberg. Thanks, Gavin. [Speaker 2] (1:32:16 - 1:32:17) Yeah, I tried. [Speaker 1] (1:32:17 - 2:02:50) I tried. Yeah. One question I have, and maybe your slides will answer this, is let's say Islam is the vessel and the vehicle for communism and Nazism to rise in the West in a deep way. Why have we just come out of a huge 20-year war against Islam, a huge propaganda machine 9-11, since 2001, in which Islam has been demonized on the news 24-7? I remember growing up as a kid, anyone who had eyebrows slightly thicker than the average was immediately profiled as a terrorist for such a long period of time. Is this part of the grand ploy? And if we're saying now that Islam is being sold in the West as something that's pretty, what was that about? Yeah. Well, first of all, there's a legitimate knowledge in our genetic memory of conflicts that Western peoples have engaged with Islam to the point of almost extinction if Spain had not stood up and if certain things had not happened. So there's a legitimate turf war that's been going on between the West and the Middle East for a long time. And I think that what happens is those types of things can be weaponized. Those narratives that you're talking about, Joel, that was mass formation psychosis of people looking at every single person that looked a little bit Middle Eastern, oh my God, are you going to blow up this cafe? But then what happens there is then we go to the point of saying, well, then there must be no threat. It must have all just been propaganda. Meanwhile, attack after attack after attack in France, in England, in my country, Canada, in the US by radical Islamic terrorist organizations. And then my slides will tell you what I think is the reason why. So I'm not a huge fan of some of the ideologies in just even traditional Islam. I'm more of a fan of the Sufi mystical tradition, to be honest. But that's just my own personal, this isn't an insult. I'll tell you the same thing about Christianity and all the rest. I believe that, for example, just really quickly, I've been doing this book here, Albert Boyd Kuhn, The Lost Light, An Interpretation of Ancient Scriptures. If the entire world could just read this book and start getting understanding about what the true, if you think of these religions of having pieces of this ancient lost archive of knowledge that was probably once known by the elites only or whatever, but that was much more unifying to understand that the ancient mystery schools that came out of Egypt and everything else got split and divided. And then it's been totally taken apart and retranslated back in throughout history to the point where we're still warring for each other. Meanwhile, all these original concepts were trying to espouse the same things. So what happens is you have these extremist groups, then you have the people in the middle like us, and then you have the media and the government that goes, how can we exploit this Game of Thrones that's been going? How can we exploit all of the fear? And maybe we can even plan some attacks and make it happen just to spur it on. But then you can't jump to conclusions by saying, well, then there's no legitimate Islamic threat. I'd say, I wish you the best with that notion. I'm not saying you Joel, but a person that might conclude that simply because propaganda has been used in the past to weaponize a view of an entire people. And that's why I always say, I'm not a collectivist. I am totally against collective judgment. But let's put it like this. If you're a member of the Order of the Solar Temple, or you're a member of Heaven's Gate, you've been hit with indoctrination. If you're wearing two masks alone in your car in 2024, you've been hit by indoctrination. I still look at you as a human being that I'm hoping to wake up to truth. But we do need to understand that there are people who their ideology has been created to weaponize them and to be able to use them as a weapon to achieve further objectives. I hope that makes sense. It makes sense. Go for it with your slides. Okay. Let's just burn through these because I don't want to waste too much time here. So I'll go back to doing this. Let's make this as quick. And guys, feel free to interrupt as I go and whatever. I'm just going to burn through it. Jump on me anytime. Okay. You guys can see me? All right. This is a quote from Michael from yesterday. And I just thought this is sort of summed up something I've been trying to say for a long time. And I know something he's been trying to say, which is that all the nations are deceived about the origin of the ancient feuds that have split the world. All the nations are. So this is an issue where we're all battling a superficial surface level of these old feuds and conflicts. Meanwhile, there's maybe 10 people on the planet that even know what actually really fucking happened. Okay. And this has been a weapon. This hiding of this history has been a part of the way that the true mafia, the true cabal, if you will, which is probably more like a bunch of cabals that are also competing with each other that they have been utilizing is to hide the facts of history from our eyes, especially the origins of where these came from. And the biggest thing would be everything we've just been talking about, that it wasn't just some Jews and Muslims and Christians fighting it out, that there were forces steering that into place like on the grand chess board and stimulating and infiltrating and working behind the scenes to create these splits and these feuds. Now we got to talk about this. I know you guys know what this is, but a lot of people listening have probably never heard of this before. And when I started going down this, I didn't even jump into it right away. And now that I have, it's incredible. This was the capturing by what I think came from the Eastern secret societies. So we talk about it in a show on Unslaved called the Eastern Illuminati, that they have their faction over there and they've installed a certain faction over here. And it's all the same Gatorade in the end, but it's just different flavors. So on the Islamic side, and this again is not to attack Islamic people as people or Muslims or Arabs. This is to talk about the bad ideas that infiltrated in your midst. And you are 100% able to also point and say, yeah, Christianity too. Yeah, I agree with you. So I'm not here to just beat one up. We're just going to focus on it because it's very related to what we're talking about. So Islamocommunism, we've done maybe 10 shows on it on Unslaved. I'm just showing you here. This is just an example of the Islamic Bakaya Workers Party. Their ideology is Islamic and communist. You also have this thing called Islamic socialism. These are just official sources to start with. Islamic socialism is a political philosophy that incorporates Islamic principles into socialism. As a term, it was coined by various Muslim leaders to describe a more spiritual form of socialism, which is always the argument. Islamic socialists believe that the teachings of the Quran and Muhammad, especially the Zakat are not only compatible with the principles of socialism, but also are very supportive of them. And just to make a quick note, if you go look up something called Christian socialism, you'll basically get the exact same description. And you'd be the same with the Jews. This is a book that everybody needs to read. It's James Billington. He was a librarian for Congress and he wrote book, A Fire in the Minds of Men. And he just has this incredible statement. I'm just going to move. I don't know if I can move you guys so I can actually read this. Either way, I'll struggle through it. The revolutionary faith came out of the wilderness. I can read it too. Oh, okay. Actually, yeah. Could you read it for me, Erasmus? Do you mind? Sure. The revolutionary faith came out of the wilderness and into power in its most violent and messianic form in the wake of World War I. This bloody conflict delegitimized traditional authority and it helped the national revolutionary tradition come to power in Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany. The social revolutionary faith in Lenin's and Stalin's Russia. These revolutions created dictatorships and modern totalitarianism. The most violent and authoritarian movements in Germany and Russia each intensified one form of the revolutionary faith by adopting significant elements of the other. Nazism was literally an abbreviation for national socialism. Communism was defined as socialism in one country. One fortified fraternity with equality, the other equality with fraternity. Each exemplified the distinctive characteristic of the revolutionary faith that the extremes touch each other. Each subordinated liberty to a new and far more totalistic form of authority than had existed previously. The revolutionary faith was sustained in power at great cost to human life and freedom. That was very well read, by the way, I must say. Sounds good. So yeah, check it out. So he's talking about the revolutionary faith, which is the ideas that I started to look into because what people know as communism and socialism, they think happened, you know, okay, Bolshevik Russia, the revolution, you know, Maoist China, they think of it on the political level. But what I discovered in my research with Michael and getting into some of the books and the references and people like James Billington is that this was something that ultimately was born in secret societies and Masonic fraternities. Okay. So that's where it was cooked up in the bellies of these secret societies in like, you know, 16, 1700s. It goes even further back into the medieval period. By the way, I found traces of the exact same thing going back way into the dark ages. You can even talk about how it was an element that maybe triggered the dark ages and we see it still alive today. Okay. And then we get into, I almost named this presentation, follow the fists. All right. Follow the raised fist. This is the fist of revolution, the revolutionary phase. This is one of their number one symbols. So I'm just going to take you on a quick little journey here that got me going, wait a minute, there's something going on here. So here it is. Soviet union, there's the big star raised fist, you know, people unite, fight the power, the whole deal. There we go. Right. Continuing into some more, we got the Christian Knights of the Rose, you know, there's your Knights of Malta cross right there. So you got the two lions, the Royal Lions, the shield, the crown, and they're all sort of on the same page. You have the socialist international logo. And for those that don't know about the socialist international, you can go read up on it and guess who led the socialist international for at least 10 years, Antonio Gutierrez, the current chief of the United Nations, right before he became the chief of the United Nations. He was the leader of this organization, which has a different rendition that I think goes back to a little bit further back where you have the closed fist holding the rose. Think of the Tudor rose. The rose has a lot of symbolic aspects, even in Freemasonry. But again, there's your closed revolutionary fist. And we got your Black Lives Matter protests that happened oddly enough at the height of the pandemic of 2020, where thousands of people in all countries all at once lit up over Black Lives Matter. And yet everybody else that would maybe have like 50 people gathering to protest the government mandates, they were told that they were spreading COVID and they couldn't be protesting. But these are the approved protests. And this is going to get to another point as we go. Here we go. It's right on the symbolism, Black Lives Matter. Of course, Black Lives Matter, but all humans matter. And we know that this was a Marxist organization founded by self-admitted Marxists, by the way, who ended up taking a lot of that money that people donated out of the goodness of their heart. And they bought a bunch of mansions in Beverly Hills with it, just like a lot of the others that have come before them. There you go. Oh, and then these start to show up at the BLM rallies. As we move ahead, you've got the LGBT community showing up. We're solidarity with our fellow oppressed victims that we must go out and support. And then we get the same thing with Ukraine. I stand with Ukraine. We all remember that. There's your resistance. They're all over. We had them here where I live in Victoria, the protests. I think I counted one time I went down there. First of all, when I went down to a lot of these events, there were these actual Communist Party of Canada booths that were set up to hand out pamphlets to the protesters to stand with Ukraine. So they knew right away. And I've heard reports in England and also in Toronto and Ottawa at the current Free Palestine protests that are lighting up all over the place where the exact same phenomenon happens there, where the leftist groups get in there and go, hey, this is our opportunity. There's Mr. Stephen King, stands with Ukraine, got the raised fist, kind of got an idea after watching his Twitter account over the few years, what kind of a mentality he has. But again, we're just looking at the symbolism. And then here we have it with the feminist movements, right? The same thing. The future is female. Give us women's rights, abortion rights. And they're very good, these groups, at finding some talking points that may even have some truths to them, but they know how to weaponize it to push this, the ultimate goal, which is to bring socialism into the West. Got your My Body, My Choice, which only counted maybe during like 2018, 2019 with the feminist abortion rallies. But suddenly that got turned off and all of these same people marching in those protests were suddenly for the mandating of a biological mRNA weaponized experiment. And so My Body, My Choice only counted in certain instances, but not others. There you go, raised fist. You got your trans rights or human rights. That's the next thing that's come into town lately as the new thing. It's the new, everybody's changing their Facebook profile picture. And once again, same Marxist fist. You got it in the background there on the left. You've got your Queer Momentum Executive Director, who's just got a load of this leftist Marxist Che Guevara-like decorations in the background telling you who she's with. Then you've even got the American left, one of the most infiltrated groups and political antagonistic groups you can imagine, funded to the tune of billions from champagne socialists in Switzerland and everywhere else. And of course, we're getting together to fight coronavirus now. We're going to have a revolution against coronavirus. Here's all your Extinction Rebellion crowd with the same thing about the climate, same refrain, same, we're oppressed by nature now. Oh, nature is the oppressor. And to extend to that, it's all the governments not doing enough to stop global warming, because of course, we only have 10 years left to live unless we radically concentrate power in the hands of the few. And then here we go. These are where we start to go, okay, regardless of the actual debate about Israel-Palestine, what I'm trying to do with this is zoom out and say, at the very least, it's being co-opted as an opportunity, because these are in Western countries. This is in Toronto. All right. Toronto is currently every weekend, all the highways are being blocked. Buildings are under siege. It's incredible what's going on. And it's galvanizing the Islamic world, and especially the recent immigrants to the Western world. They're galvanizing around this issue. And lo and behold, here we go. The raised fist in the Palestinian colors. It's everywhere, all over these protests. Look at this. Zionism is racism, free Palestine, revolutionary communist group. I mean, they just come right out for this. So then you go, okay, so this got me into, well, let's look at some of these liberation groups, because do you remember the Viet Cong in Vietnam? What was the Viet Cong? It was the liberation army. It was the liberation front to do what? They were the communist terrorist groups that were leading the resistance there. And they were the Vietnamese liberation organization or Vietnamese liberation group. Well, we have, I think, and again, to separate from the Palestinian people, who I believe are equally oppressed by these motherfuckers, the PLO and the Hamas, which are agents of Iran and Hezbollah and the big Eastern Illuminati groups behind them. This is how they flood in and create more of that victim versus, or oppressed versus oppressor narrative in the people. And they use legitimate things and legitimate grievances to weaponize the ideology so that they can get their agenda in, not the agenda for the Palestinian people. Same in Israel, not the agenda for the Israeli people, but the agenda of the cult that's running at all. And here we go. You've got the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. It's a Palestinian Marxist Leninist organization. Sounds lovely. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine is a secular Palestinian Marxist Leninist and revolutionary socialist organization founded in 1967 by George Habash. Then you have, of course, the PLO. And you've got the 10-point program of the PLO. You've got, and I just found when I was looking, this was from 1974. I believe they've updated this, but I found it interesting because I was trying to go to the roots of it, that in the 10-point program of 1974, just check out number nine. The liberation organization will strive to strengthen its solidarity with the socialist countries and with the forces of liberation, there's that key word, and progress throughout the world with the aim of frustrating all the schemes of Zionist reaction and imperialism. It basically read similar to the rhetoric going around in the USSR before the wall came down with the exact identical rhetoric. So that was some interesting things. And then you go, okay, what's this thing about pan-Arabism? Pan-Arab, what is that? Well, this is literally just the entry level. We don't have time to go through it all. Pan-Arabism is an ideology that espouses the unification of all Arab people in a single nation state comprising the Arab countries of West Asia, North Africa, Atlantic Ocean, Arabian sea, which is referred to as the Arab world. It is closely connected to Arab nationalism, which asserts the view that Arabs constitute a single nation. It originated in the late 19th century among Arab regions of the Ottoman empire, and its popularity reached its height during the 1950s and 60s. And advocates of pan-Arabism have often espoused Arab socialist principles and strongly opposed Western political involvement in the Arab world, et cetera, et cetera. So again, piggybacking off of some possible legitimate grievances here and there, some of them are fabricated, but piggybacking off of it to bring in this left-wing ideology into the Middle East to corrupt it even further. You got the history of the young Turks. I won't read into it, but the symbolism says a lot. Young Italy. So these are all these young groups, young Ireland, young Italy, young... Where's the other ones? Yeah, there's more. But these are the youth of those areas, like in Italy or in the Middle East, where they're trying to get into the minds of the young to implant this Marxist ideology in them, and to bring about this revolution that's going to unify the entire culture. And many of them believe it, but it's the sales pitch. It's the carrot on the stick. There are bigger forces at work behind this. Now, just a quick one on Giuseppe Manzini. He is another character of historical note. He's Giuseppe Manzini. He was a 33rd degree Freemason, a British intelligence agent, a revolutionary terrorist, and founder of young Europe and young Italy. That's basically what I wanted to show you, is that the founder of these young movements across Europe was literally the guy that took the mantle of the Illuminati from Adam Weishaupt. And there's letters between him and Albert Pike, and on and on we go. An incredible figure to research. If you get down the Giuseppe Manzini rabbit hole, a lot of interesting things make sense. And I'm bringing this up to show you that we have high level elite. They're elite because they were capitalists. They're elites that come from Masonic secret societies that were trying to foment and create these radicalized movements throughout the Western world and the Middle East. We've got Operation Atlas. I found this really interesting. So this kind of gets into the history of the Nazis a little bit. For those more interested, I did a show called The New Templars on my channel to sort of break some of this down. But here's Adolf Hitler in a famous meeting with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, which you would think, well, didn't the Nazis, didn't they believe in the Aryan philosophy that all the Arabic and Semitic and Jewish races were at the bottom of the genetic totem pole compared to the Germans? Why the hell are they colluding with the Arabs, especially the Grand Mufti? And I found out that it goes even deeper than that. You can go to, I believe it's in Paris. They have the actual archived radio transmissions that went for months and months and months from Germany broadcasting in Middle Eastern countries, the Nazi rhetoric to install the Nazi left-wing ideology and fomented over there. And when this deal happened between the Nazis and the Grand Mufti, this is to me, one of the major points where things started to change beneath the surface in the Islamic world. And I found it interesting that Operation Atlas is the code name for an operation carried out by special commando unit with the Waffen SS, which took place October 1944. And these soldiers were members of a Templar religious sect in Palestine. What's a Templar religious sect doing in Palestine? Well, this goes back to the allegiances that were made between the Templars and the Eastern mystical groups, which is actually where they adopted a lot of that Eastern symbolism into the shriners, into masonry. It's a whole history. It's fascinating. But yeah, something people need to know about. Just go get into the meeting with Hitler, the Nazis and the Grand Mufti. And never forget that behind all of this, we have the Vatican sitting there in Rome, financing and pushing the entire thing at that time. So there's kind of a collusion going on between all three of the Abrahamic religions to install left-wing ideology into those groups. Interesting statement from Zuhir Moshin. He was leader of the pro-Syria, sect, faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization. So basically he was the leader of the PLO back in the day. And he had an interesting statement. I'm not saying I agree with him. I don't even know. I just thought this was interesting to point out something where he said, the Palestinian people do not exist. There is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese. We are all part of one people. This is that pan Arabism thing. The Arab nation, just for political reasons, we carefully underwrite our Palestinian identity because it is of national interest for the Arabs to advocate the existence of Palestinians to balance out Zionism. The existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons. And I think this has to do with some of the stuff that they were getting from the Nazi groups that came in there. And they were encouraging them to move on with this. And what united these two opposing ideologies that you would see on the surface of Islam and Nazism was the hatred of the Jews. And there was reasons for it. And I think it had more to do with elements that came out of Jewish culture and not much about the racism that a lot of people think it does, but that's another discussion. I'm going to skip this. Okay. Then we get into the funding. So we kind of just a little history. This is what I started looking into. What the hell is Soros' organizations doing donating to a lot of these groups? Because it's about fomenting the division. It's about keeping the division going. There's a bigger thing going on because we know Soros is behind all these raise this movements or one of the financiers. And we also know his history. So he's pro Hamas. And if he's pro Hamas, I got some bloody questions about it personally. And there's some more on it. We can get those videos. I got loads on this stuff of the actual receipts, but there you go. The Tides Foundation look at the funding of the pro-Palestinian protests. There's no doubt Soros has always been anti-Israel. He's always been anti-Israel. It's funny that though, there's a big story that's there because there's what they tell you and then there's what they do. And I follow the money. So when you follow the money, it's also interesting, but you're not necessarily wrong there because remember the rise of this far left ideology in Israel. So he's pro that Israel, he's not pro what benefits the Israeli people or even Judaism for that matter. So there's a difference. Josh posted this. This was an interesting meeting, George Soros' son meeting with Abedin or whatever her name is, who is literally one of the top females in the Muslim brotherhood. There's a whole history there. I think a lot of information is about to drop about what's going on in this picture. We'll wait for Julian Assange to be released and we'll go from there. Then we get into some of these groups that again are getting on the bandwagon going, Oh, this is our time to shine. Action for humanity. You get into a lot of the websites of these charities. You got these people like Sean King who are pushing it big time. And of course he was one of the main voices and the main leaders within the Black Lives Matter movement. And so you see these Marxists just jumping on every one of these revolutionary movements because I think their ideas are not necessarily just about saving the poor children, but about installing their ideology. They're all paid. A lot of them are involved probably in intelligence and whatnot, but that'd be something else to discuss. Oops. And then this was interesting that I found on the same website or sorry, the Palestinian youth movement website, a different one, Palestinian youth movement website. They have a little bit here on an instance that happened in Canada right before the lockdowns that I've covered relentlessly that I found interesting because we found the money that was financing this movement in Canada. And just really quickly, I'll read what they say and then I'll explain it. They say, in response to this support for Wet'suwet'en has sprung up across Canada, train rail blockades and port blockades have been the most powerful causing a mass disruption of the Canadian economy domestically and internationally with massive popular pressure for state actors to change their engagement with the Wet'suwet'en nation. So the same oppressor versus oppressor or press versus oppressor financed by the same people. And when they locked down the CN rail, which is our railway here in Canada, it literally put the economy to a halt and they had groups burning pallets, setting them on fire to block the trains from coming through. And they had full RCMP details supporting them and keeping people away from those groups. These guys were armed sitting on Canadian highways and locking down highways and railways and the government did nothing about it, just like they did nothing about the defacing of all of our statues by these same Marxist organizations that are all hiding behind some of the legitimate grievances that the first nations people have in Canada. The pushing of all these burial sites all over the place to say there's thousands of children's bodies. We got all the bones, they're here. We just found them from the evil history of Canada and then yet not a single artifact or bone or piece of evidence has ever been found. And I'm also one to say that that doesn't mean these evil things didn't happen. It just means the evidence was erased. But what I'm bringing this up for is, didn't we have a trucker protest in Canada during the lockdowns to try to protest literally just the mandates that the government put on Canadians that broke our laws and broke international laws? And they just let out of prison some guys who were just dads who happened to be standing in Cootes, Alberta, trying to blockade that bridge as a demonstration. So when I'm seeing selective support by the government, the media, and the social media for certain causes, but not others, I just got some questions. Just want to go through this. And then of course, the selective outrage thing. That's enough. I just wanted to show you that stuff. I think that's the most important part of it, but I'll rest my case there, gentlemen. [Speaker 2] (2:02:54 - 2:07:37) Thank you, David. Gavin, I'm sure you have some things to offer up. I got some really interesting insights to actually compliment on that. So there's a lot to be said about all of that, man. I wrote two pages because from one thing to the next day, very dense in terms of the knowledge, a lot to consider, man. Again, I wholeheartedly agree with David that there's just bigger plays that people always need to be mindful of, man. Never take things at their surface impression and always ask the very pragmatic and practical question, who really stands to gain from events that transpire? And oftentimes, we only learn about this in years. One of the things about this generational conspiracy, legitimate conspiracy, is these people are very patient, man. They dedicate it. They dedicate it with the same veracity and intensity as we are dedicated to the principles of humanity. They dedicate it to their principles, if you want to call it that, of skullduggery and sadism and causing harm and just doing the inverse of that which we embody. But in relation, and you're going to find this very interesting, David, but I mean all of you, your listeners too, I recently became aware of this. It's mind-blowing. So there's a whole other element in relation to the founding of Israel back when it was Palestine. In the mid-19th century, so the mid-1800s, high-ranking members of the British Empire were talking about resettling the Jews for geostrategic reasons. Now, of course, they also dressed it up as being this is God's will and so on and so forth. But it was for geostrategic reasons when you really get into the proverbial meat and potatoes, when you get into the soil and you dig into it. So what I found, this is so mind-blowing, is that they began to infiltrate, I mean in a previous podcast, listeners can go ahead and watch that, that we actually did it together, where we explored kind of how there was this Ottoman public debt administration and how there were external forces that gradually infiltrated the Ottoman Empire, which back then was known as the Sick Man of the Middle East, and brought it down. And this was during a time of, of course, legitimate colonialism. So there were lots of resource wealth, a lot of geopolitical reasoning behind wanting to go into this land. And so what the British convinced the Sultan to do, because there were also internal uprisings, history was very complex, there were internal uprisings within the Turkish Empire of competing factions and rebels. And what he made a deal with, he said, look, we'll offer you protection if you let us have a consulate and we can facilitate trade and we can gain access to your region. So the point being, mid-1800s, they had their eyes on this piece of land, the British authorities. This is where it gets very interesting. If you look at the Balfour Declaration, I didn't know this. We know about, obviously, Lord Rothschild, right, was made out to him by Balfour, right? What we don't know is that there were actually several authors involved in this. Two of those authors was Alfred Milner and a guy by the name of Leo Emery. These two dudes were trustees of Cecil Rhodes' will. In fact, the guy, Leo Emery, specifically, he was a trustee for the longest period of time. Cecil Rhodes was the guy that had this obsessive idea to create, and it's unambiguous, anybody can go look it up, to create kind of like a secret empire, a secret conspiracy, to expand the control of the Anglo empire abroad, to reabsorb the United States into its orbit. And they did this through the Roundtable Group. And this is not very difficult to find. About 10 years ago, it was. And you had to go to somebody like Professor Carroll Quigley, who, I mean, if people aren't familiar with him, you need to look into this dude. He's legit. He actually comes from the Ivy League schools. He's a mountain to rely on in relation to evidence. And he really illuminated so much of how the globalist structure works. So the Roundtable Group, their thing was, and it's openly, you can even find this in Wikipedia now, which shocked me when I went to go look it up, but they actually had a journal and they would have meetings where they were trying to figure out how they could create a continuation of the empire, but through clandestine means. And they came up with the idea of creating a commonwealth of nations. So you give them the illusion of independence in different countries, but the British authority is still in power. Canada was even far under that orbit, which I still see there's a lot, and I'm sure you do too, David, where there's a lot of influence over there. [Speaker 1] (2:07:38 - 2:07:38) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (2:07:38 - 2:09:40) So now what we know is that the Balfour Declaration was in fact authored. The guy, Leo Emery specifically, he took credit for authoring the Balfour Declaration. We know that they were now involved in this and they wanted to maintain the empire through clandestine means. Okay, so cool. The British go in there, they immediately start creating division between both the Arab Muslim and the Jewish population, and there were Christians there as well, and they start fomenting division. Now, you know, and this is so mind-blowing, you know, that guy that you mentioned, the Grand Mufti, the Grand Mufti, that title was actually created by the British authorities. They created that title. And that guy in specific, Al Husseini, they put him in position as being the Grand Mufti, but they also had him on the payroll until the 1930s. And this guy was notorious for fomenting division and inciting, basically, fights and killings amongst the Jewish and Palestinian population. So what's my point in doing this? Even that guy, Vladimir Zehev Jabotinsky that I mentioned earlier, the founding father of revisionist Zionism, he also worked with the same authorities. He worked very closely with Leo Emery. They actually, he founded something called the Jewish Legion with Pinas Rattenberg, I know I'm butchering the dude's name, Joe, but he founded it alongside him. The Jewish Legion fought under the British administration. So immediately what you see now is these very underhanded, shadowy forces as personified through the roundtable group that are involved in both sides, and Vladimir Zehev Jabotinsky and the so-called Grand Mufti, Al Husseini, these were two of the most divisive evocative figures in Palestine. So then what happens? Okay, they foment all of this insanity. They create large-scale divisions that didn't really exist prior to the Balfour Declaration. I mean, we, again, people, I'll refer them to the previous podcast we did, where we kind of explored this history. [Speaker 1] (2:09:41 - 2:09:51) And that is, just to say, that is a really important point that it's not like Jews and Arabs have always been fighting or Christians of all, there's these instigators. [Speaker 2] (2:09:51 - 2:16:15) Yeah. Yes, yes. And the fact that this roundtable group is now also involved in this whole charade, that raises huge red flags, because at that time, if we just, again, I like to try to corroborate things with reality. You look at different examples in history. At that time, during the scramble for Africa, the British empire implemented various policies of divide and conquer between the native populations, even in Sudan. I think it is Sudan. I hope I'm remembering this correctly, where they divided the north and the south, who are still at war to this day. The Rwandan genocide, oh no, sorry, that was Belgium. So it was Sudan. And the other one was, I think, Uganda. They did the same thing in Uganda, where they played the populations against one another. To this day, if you trace the business dealings and the influences in those economies, you can trace it back to the British empire, not solely to them, but to individuals, powerful individuals and families within the British establishment. Now, within Palestine, and what would later become Israel, all of this madness happens, and then there's this string of terrorist attacks. And I mean, it's just, it is a, I mean, it is a powder keg. It's the history of how, like, between the Nakba and the Declaration of Independence, merging those two things together. It's insane. What does the British administration do? They instigated this conflict in a way that is absolutely indisputable, and then they just leave. But they still had financial control in many of those regions. So they were talking about this. I figured, man, this is such an auspicious moment, just to mention it. I'm still in the early phases of researching all of this. But many, well, as they say, many hands make light work, and many minds make it easier to illuminate the truth. So I thought, let me go ahead and take an opportunity just to compliment on that. Then the other thing, just in relation to the whole, like, left-wing political thing, right, I try my best to pull the semantics, pull the language away from the propaganda. Because each one of these words, these phrases, it has a highly emotional connotation attached to it that is very much subjective to certain populations. So if you ask 100 people, what does socialism mean to you? You're going to get 100 different answers. Same thing with capitalism. Same thing with all kinds of stuff. And because of the complexity and the ambiguity and the abundance of history, and all the different players and all the different factors and the co-opting and all the duplicity, there is no shortage of examples from both sides to say, oh, that's what's wrong with capitalism, that's what's wrong with socialism, and so on and so forth. I'd argue there's probably more examples with, like, collectivism. That's why I like to call it collectivism, because it's a mob mentality. And this gets weaponized by all the powers that be. At the highest levels, they like to privatize the gains. I think it was Professor Anthony Sutton that said this. They privatize the gains for themselves, and then they kind of make it communistic below, right? It's, oh, you pledge. And they just use us as a proverbial trigger to fight against one another. But within all of that, there's actually legitimate, good, decent people that align themselves innocently with being a communist or a socialist. And one of the examples I like to use, and it's a very challenging example, but I encourage people to look at a video I did very recently on the crazy shit that was going on in South Africa, where I said, dear black people and dear white people, remember who the real enemy is. The Black Panther Party, not the new Black Panther Party, which certainly looks like Assad, but the original Black Panther Party, although they embodied socialist views, this was a formidable organization. They fed the common people, they policed the police, and they did a lot of good things. Okay, and I know that sounds very controversial. You're like, oh, okay, there's a landmine, and it is an emotional landmine. It's deliberately been implanted there. But if you look at them, for example, Fred Hampton, a great revolutionary guy that was actually unifying all the races through something called the Rainbow Coalition. And he brokered a peace between the most violent gangs. Chicago at the time had the highest crime rate in the whole entire US. He brokered a peace between the poor white people, which were the young patriots, the Latinos, the Asians, and also, of course, the blacks. And then I'm sure there's other races involved there. I mean, you know, to me, it's just all fucking human beings. We just come from different circumstances. And he unified all of them against basically what he saw as being the same enemy. And to me, that is a positive thing. And they got, I mean, there's a lot of negatives to it as well, but they were feeding poor people. They were helping to educate them. They were doing really good things. They got targeted in a horrible way. If you actually look at the history, like Alma Geronimo Pratt, who just a piece of interesting trivia for people was Tupac Shakur's uncle. If you look at him, he was wrongfully arrested. Several decades later, then the evidence comes out that they concealed in court that he was wrongfully arrested. The same thing with Albert Woodfox. He spent more time in solitary confinement, over 40 years in solitary confinement than anybody else. Fred Hampton, he was assassinated. And Medgar Evers, I think was the other guy's name, I can't quite recall now. And then the government was fined decades later being guilty of a targeted assassination. My point being, they are good people within every single walk of life. And I just don't want people to get confused when we talk about this. And like we say, let's say, like there was an extreme left element in the foundation of Israel, or there's an extreme left element in the Islamic community, that we are now demonizing everybody that aligns themselves with that. At the end of the day, we are all just human beings. We all essentially want just human decency to take precedence. And so, in spite of our perceptions, which are just eternally different, right? It's an ocean, it's an endless ocean. Remember, guys, that while you listen to me and David, and you listen to Joel and Erasmus, and anybody else for that matter, stay rooted in your principles. Water it with your perceptions, water it with other people's perceptions. Let it grow as much as you can, but remember your roots, which are the principles of humanity. [Speaker 1] (2:16:17 - 2:18:01) Yeah, some good points. I just have a few things to say. First of all, I really was interested in those details you were giving about the Mufti and those groups, 100%. It's just showing that these are infiltrators into the midst to push an ulterior agenda. And this is why when I use those terms, left-wing socialism, these kinds of things, first of all, we have to differentiate between the intention of people and whether their ideas are good or not good, right? Jim Jones used to wine and dine his flock. He took care of them. He gave them free medical. He did all kinds of stuff for these people that he eventually shipped off and built a commune and then ended up everybody committing mass suicide. And it turned into literally a mini communist experiment. It was insane. So the medics, the Knights of Malta, and the medical groups, the doctors, big pharma, they've done a lot of good, right? The Red Cross done a lot of good, but they're also backed by an insidiously evil anti-human force that has caused more harm than all the wars combined, right? So I feel like, and then the good people showing up at those rallies that you might be referring to that say, I identify as a socialist, they just don't know what they're talking about. And they're just the good hearted, well-meaning people. It's the old thing. I grew up as a liberal, but when I finally matured, I saw that I'm seeing through a lot of that, right? And then there's also the distinction between, okay, are we talking classical liberalism, which is a lot more aligned with Western values that I support versus the liberalism of today that is so batshit crazy, they don't even know what way is up or down, right? [Speaker 2] (2:18:01 - 2:18:08) And then the people- A hundred percent, like it changes historically, right? Yeah, also- It does change historically. It changes historically. They do the total inverse. [Speaker 1] (2:18:08 - 2:18:46) But this is the question. Is there legitimate oppression and is there legitimate resistance groups? How do we now discern what is a legitimate resistance group? Well, what do you do if you're oppressed? You resist, right? How? Becoming what you hate? Is that resistance? What we're doing is resistance. Yeah. But I mean, if survival's literally threatened, I haven't been in that position. I don't know if you guys have. [Speaker 2] (2:18:46 - 2:19:01) Look, I have. Yeah, you regress to a very primordial fight or flight state. A hundred percent. Of course. Of course. But I know what David's saying, that we need to have a revolution of the mind, man. That is what I'm all about. There is no such thing as a revolution without a revolution of awareness. [Speaker 1] (2:19:01 - 2:19:03) That's the only revolution. [Speaker 2] (2:19:03 - 2:19:04) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (2:19:04 - 2:29:58) Here's the problem. It's end of, what's that movie we were talking about before? Hunger Games. That it's, oh, we're going to swap one evil dictatorship for another. That's not resistance. Truth is resistance. The mind is resistance. Not voting in dictators that are there oppressing you is resistance. There's more of the resistance. That's why the oppressed versus oppressed narrative that was born in the Soviet Union and has been brought into all these countries and absolutely destroyed them. There were people resisting what they felt to be legitimate tyranny, but look what happened. Massacres that are mind boggling, that people don't even understand, directed by these cults at the end of the day, mass ritual death. Right? To me, the radical form of Islam is a death cult, socialism at the core. And I'm talking the real liniments of it, not the, oh, we're just going to take care of grandma when she's old or the sick and the needy, right? Why not have charitable foundations? We've talked about this, Joel, the way that the true free economy, the free market should work. Why are they so allergic to those values? Maybe they've never been introduced to them, but you got to fight for it. If more than 70 or 80% of the Palestinian people would vote for Hamas again and again and again, and because they've been raised in that cycle, this is one of the factors as well as the stuff on the Israeli side that is like some of the people I've listened to have been saying, there is no way to fix this problem. It's just, it's so rooted at almost like a genetic level on both sides. Right? And so what's the resistance? Of course, you're going to resist if you're being oppressed. If my government sent, or if the Chinese invaded Canada and sent troops on the ground, hell yeah, I'm kicking off, right? Fighting to the last breath. There are legitimate revolutions, don't be sure, to be sure. One of them was say, you know, the story of El Cid in Spain, standing up to the Moors before the entire Europe would have been turned into Islamic caliphate. Right? So, you know, it's just about having everything in context of what is the true The same goes if an IDF soldier is jumping on your roof at 3 AM and pulling your kid out of the front door, like, what are you going to do in that situation? Right? Right. But I just don't buy that it's always this innocent, I'm attacked, I'm an innocent. Right? What about the Hamas agents popping out of holes and just whacking families? Right? Why are they digging an entire tunnel network underneath Gaza? Is there something more to that tunnel network, by the way? Is it just about getting terrorists in, or does this link into the international human trafficking trade, which we know penetrates every nook and cranny of the Middle East? It's one of the origin places of it. Right? The history of it. Right? So, and I'll bet it goes in Israel too. Like it's not just a one or the other. And that's why I think this makes this way more complex. And this is why the emotions can get stirred in people when they listen and go, oh, here's all the footage, like you said, weaponizing atrocity. Oh, it's an atrocity. It's an issue of these poor people, these poor people. But then you go, wait a minute, there's two sides to a fight here and we have to look at it objectively to try to find the solution. Right? And then war, man, the fog of war. What about, for example, the bombing of Dresden by Churchill? Right? How many civilian deaths happened in Europe? Millions of civilian deaths to eradicate fascism in Europe. That's what it took. Was that a genocide by the British, by the Americans, on their own people, or was it literally DEFCON six? We had to do it. And yeah, it was orchestrated by the same powers that be. But again, and then why are we not getting all up in arms about what's going on in Yemen right now? Why are we not talking about that? Because it's not favorable. It's Arab on Arab violence. Right? It's the same everywhere. So, this is why I kind of say, look, we all sort of pick where we're going to find that empathy for these people, whereas we should be, I empathize with any innocent victim in any conflict. But then when I analyze, say, Russia and Ukraine, right? And they're all, Putin's the big bad guy. And really, yeah, Putin's no saint and Russia has a fucking horrible history. And there's definitely a lot of evil going on. But in an interesting turn of events, who is telling you more truth right now? Joe Biden and Justin Trudeau or Putin talking to Tucker? Not a perfect thing, but still, you look at it and you go, all right, well, interesting. And then you start to wonder, here's another interesting thing I'll just throw really quickly to you guys, because there could be even something bigger than all of this going on that we don't know. And we're being told, well, it's just the same old skirmish going on in Israel, Palestine. What if we're dealing with purge across the world right now between an alliance group of patriots that want to see something good for their country that are working with, I brought this up in the last discussion, working with people that are playing optics for the public, but they've seen the atrocities on all sides. They know what the origin is and they're trying to flush out in all these countries. So we've had Russia, Ukraine, there's other stuff going on in other countries. We've got this Israel, Palestine, guess what's happening probably this week. That's Taiwan and China next on deck. Weird how within the same few years, we have all these things sparking off. And what if a lot of it is not what we think? Because we're stuck in historical context and we don't know that things have been changing and pieces have been moving. And there might be a whole other thing going on behind this to expose the very cult I'm talking about in a way that humanity has never seen before. That's just my pipe dream, but I'm just saying it's fricking interesting when you put it all together that what are the odds that all of these ancient conflicts just start kicking off in the public domain and get us all talking about it. And what if some of this stuff is manufactured for that very purpose? It's just something to think about. And by manufactured, please don't take that as me saying innocent people are not being killed in these wars, okay? I'm just saying a lot of the optics of it, a lot of what's really going on behind it, it might not be what we think. And I can only hope that it's something positive. Let's hope it's not negative, right? But I just want to say, first of all, guys, I really love this conversation and I love that we're bringing these points up. And I love that we're all trying to think from different sides. And I encourage everybody listening here not to just believe what I'm saying or dive into my theory or Gavin's theory or anybody's theory, go learn about it. And what are we ultimately trying to get to? Gavin, you were hitting on this hard. We're trying to get to a better future for our children, a better future for this world. We're trying to eradicate evil, corruption, and tyranny, and to bring back truth, freedom, and justice. That's the mission. And we want it for as many people as that want it, right? But it's not as displacing the dictator. That is something we need to realize. It's about a revolution within the hearts and minds of all people to awaken to the things you guys are laboring on your amazing podcast to show people that could be the ingredients towards true lasting change, where we can install that in people and deprogram the propaganda, the lies, the old feuds. Are we ever going to remove a needle from the historical feuds? Can we move on into the future? I say this to people that I know and love in the first nations community that still complain about everything. And I go, look, I wasn't part of any of those things. I wasn't there. And neither were you actually. So you and me are sitting here in 2024. What can we do to realize we have a common enemy and deal with that and then move on and make the future better? If we're stuck in the past, look what's happening. It's nothing but murder and bloodshed that benefits the same people we've been trying to expose. So I'm just for moving forward. I hope that this conflict is wrapped up. And I, I, I grieve at the sites of these innocent people being killed, but I grieved when I saw October 7th as well. And I grieve for all of it. I grieve for the Ukrainian people that were just caught in the fire and they've been propagandized and they're being controlled by Azov Nazi battalions, and they're being attacked by Russia. It's, it's hell, right? But how do we get out of it? Only the truth is going to save us. And only when the truth can get out on mass. And the only way to get at the truth is to have these very difficult discussions, which I must say wasn't as difficult as I was thinking it might be. And I actually really learned a lot today, gentlemen. And I really, really appreciated it. And I hope we can do more of these. And I just thank both you boys, Erasmus and Joel for hosting it and Gavin for your incredible research and your very salient points that definitely reached me. So I hope they reach the people watching and we can get towards some real solutions in the future. I agree. I mean, for me just to be witness to this conversation and to hear all of you share your points of view. Yeah, I just feel honored. And just to be able to be in this position to present this for all of us to come together and to bring you two together, great minds. And you hit the nail on the head, like, you know, we have to expand our consciousness. Like, yeah, sure. There might be some political solutions, some little ones here and there, but ideally it starts at home. And like, you know, where is your mindset at? You know, how do you think about things? You know, what is the state of your health? You know, how can you take in these ideas? Can you be open to hearing different points of view? And, you know, something that we talk about often on this podcast. And I think it's imperative. Like we have to move beyond this. I'm right. You're wrong. And screaming at each other and be okay with hearing someone share something that is different and to let it land and to hold space within yourself for it and to consider maybe I'm not right, you know, maybe. And then I think so much can come from that, you know, and I try to check myself. Like there's times where I like do my research and there's things I'm really, really passionate about and I stand by those convictions. And can I create a little bit of space and, you know, hold the uncertainty that I may not have it all figured out. You know, it's this dance between certainty and uncertainty that, you know, each individual needs to embody in a healthy, balanced way. And I think that's what's going to move things forward. So like, I mean, you guys are legends. You know, to have these conversations, we're fucking honored and I just appreciate you both. Same here, brother. Well said. [Speaker 2] (2:30:00 - 2:31:55) Likewise, man. I don't know if I should wait for Joe there. But it was a fantastic discussion and I was very excited about this. Also, you don't know what to anticipate. But David's a very well-balanced, authentic truth seeker. So I was optimistic and I was rewarded for that optimism. And I genuinely do hope that maybe we can even do something like this in the that these kinds of discussions that I think that we did the tango pretty damn good over here, right? In pursuing like the objective truth of trying to illuminate a greater awareness or just the greater good of humanity, right? I'm a firm believer that these kind of sober-minded discussions where perceptions confront one another almost like two streams of a flowing river and then they go into the ocean. And then you go wide into that ocean and you see, wow, there's a bigger ocean here. It doesn't mean that you've illuminated the whole ocean. It doesn't mean you've been to the bottom of the ocean. But now you see that there's more to it. And I really am a true believer that moving forward, that's the key. Unfortunately, as you know, the establishment media, I mean, all its disguises that it presents itself, what it gives people is not well-temperant debates. It gives them these evocative, emotional, knee-jerk, fuck you, kind of discussions or debates or whatever you want to call it, these arguments. So it was an honor. Thank you guys for having me. Thank you, David, as well for doing this. I learned a lot as well from what you were saying. There was things there that you wouldn't mind, that book that you held up there. I was going to say while you were doing it, I was thinking, do it again. I'll just quickly do a screenshot. But it sounds interesting, man. Can we get over to David? [Speaker 1] (2:31:55 - 2:32:03) Albert Boyd-Kuhn, The Lost Light, An Interpretation of Ancient Scriptures. I ordered it on Amazon while this conversation was going on. [Speaker 2] (2:32:03 - 2:32:03) Hey, can you believe? [Speaker 1] (2:32:04 - 2:32:11) Oh, you slick dude. During the conversation. Although, Gavin, I don't think you could get Amazon delivered as quickly to you where you are right now. [Speaker 2] (2:32:11 - 2:32:23) I found something similar. I've worked out a route where there's somebody that I can deliver things. They've been kind enough to let me use it for a small fee, but they've been kind enough to let me use it physically. There's a plan. [Speaker 1] (2:32:25 - 2:32:44) FYI, there's no correlation between your asthma ordering a book and reading it. He likes the energy of it around him. I got a lot of books I still haven't read too, but I want to have it. Solar flare hits. I need some reading. I call it your asthmosis. He just stares at it. He absorbs the information. That's what happens. [Speaker 2] (2:32:44 - 2:32:51) But listen, I'm guilty too. People like to window shop for clothes and they maybe wear it one time. I'm like that with books, man. [Speaker 1] (2:32:51 - 2:34:19) I'm right there with you. I need that book. Yeah. And I just want to highlight too, based on what you said, that's why these conversations are important is because they are an example of how conversations can happen. If most people are just looking at the news, glued to social media, comment threads, they don't see this. They don't witness it. And then so they don't have the knowing that, wow, these kinds of dialogues can occur, that people can maybe disagree on certain things and hear each other out. So that's the one thing that I really appreciate about this. And the feedback that we got from the last one was that exactly, to see two minds communicate and have a dialogue where there wasn't a yelling or screaming, but an openness. It's just- And it's funny you say it because sometimes, maybe it's the fighter in me. I enjoy sitting and listening to the base, those good old scraps. But whenever I get into them, I don't have that heart. I don't want to destroy somebody. I want to talk to somebody. I have that. I'll tell you right now, you're not going to find a discussion about this topic that went the way this went. You're not going to find it. It's all just like, and that's why I'm like, okay, if we four can do this, more people can do this. And then maybe even these two nations can do this. Maybe that's a pipe dream, but it just shows us- It's like the end of Rocky. One step at a time. [Speaker 3] (2:34:19 - 2:34:20) The end of Rocky IV. [Speaker 1] (2:34:21 - 2:45:46) You can change. Particularly sitting here as a Palestinian whose father was born in Jerusalem and having been raised with this discussion for over 20 years, and for me to be able to see through the veil a little bit and question and step out into new paradigms, there's no doubt that's possible for other Palestinians at least. I know that for sure. And hopefully the Jews as well and the Israelis and those people. And Joel, I can imagine how hard of a discussion this is for you, brother. And hats off to you for having the strength to do it and bringing up your points. And in the end, I want peace in the Middle East, bro. And I want it all over the world. But again, only good ideas that work in reality are going to get us there. Not pipe dreams that are sold to us by a bunch of soothsayers and definitely not well-funded terrorist organizations on all sides. And so it's up to us humans, us regular people to step outside the paradigms that we're being indoctrinated with constantly and to find the unity that's there. And we can do it. I've seen it happen. I got to say when I was watching, I keep bringing it up, but that convoy in Canada, it changed my life because it proved that that was possible, that we had people there who were from the Middle East, who were from Quebec, who were from Alberta, who were from India, who were bikers from Hell's Angels, who were police officers, lawyers, doctors, who were all there unifying around one thing. It wasn't just the Canadian flag. It was about freedom and real freedom. There was no Marxist fist running around. It was just the true freedom of people coming together, sharing some hot apple cider and some hot dogs and bouncy castles, and just defying a bunch of tyrannical bullshit in a peaceful resistance. And I love seeing that. And I think we can keep that same spirit alive elsewhere. And hopefully that reigns supreme in the future. Well said. Guys, thank you so much for coming together once again and having this challenging conversation and tackling it in the way that we did. Everyone else, thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. Thank you for being the human being that you are and having expanded your psychology enough to be willing to listen to this conversation, even just be interested in this conversation, is something of incredible value in my opinion. Boys, let's schedule in round three in the most recent future. Yeah. And to everyone listening, please, I know we've said it on all our episodes, but please support both their work. Go to the website, support what they're doing. We'll have all their links below as usual. And like Joel said, just appreciate you for being here. Much love, boys. Well done. That was awesome. Much love on all sides, man. Absolutely. Take care, everyone. Well, bro, it feels like you and I said a lot that episode. I mean, it was definitely one of the episodes that I've spoken the most. I mean, I think I counted my words. There might've been like 28 total words that I said. I mean, but listen though, we're doing a round table on this topic and invite two specific guests that have done their fair share of research, whether or not it's just in more modern times or also historically speaking, they have a lot to say. And I was there to be a witness, man. I was there to listen and learn. And I think that's the whole point of why we even did that episode, like I mentioned, is for people to have the opportunity to listen to voices that I think agree foundationally on principles and yet maybe have a different view or a different research on how things are. Yeah, totally, man. And I think like one thing that we achieved through that episode is we kind of demagnetized the poles a little bit, and we expanded the middle when it comes to this topic, because again, it can come across as a very black and white issue. Obviously it is very polarizing, but there's nuance that's required in understanding this topic, obviously. And there's a journey that one has to go on to broaden their awareness and broaden their understanding of how they perceive this topic. And yes, we can get stuck in the microsome of it all. Yes, there's tragedies. Yes, there's horrific things going on, no doubt. But at the same time, how do we, like David said, zoom out a little bit and align on the macrosome and on the macro of what's underlying and underpinning how this is being played against us? Well, yeah, totally. And also I think what's necessary needs to be done, and this is where the responsibility lies on the individual, is like, sure, you have emotions. Sure, you have feelings about things. But in order to gain some level of objectivity, you have to get a hold of your emotions. You have to distance yourself a little bit just to see if you can get more of a bird's eye view around things. And like you mentioned, demagnetize the poles. Just think of any relationship. Sure, there are relationships where maybe one person may be more at fault than the other because of some act they did or something that happened. But more often than not, it takes two to tango. There is way more nuance that happens. Like both parties involved in a partnership play a role in how things unfold. And so, yes, like, of course, things are way more complex and different when you're thinking about two nations. But I think like we have to be able to go, hey, listen, there's more to this story. There's more to the history of this. I can't just let myself get sucked into the emotions and be forced to pick a side immediately, especially if you don't have the full picture, you haven't contemplated things in a deeper manner. Yeah. And I mean, the reality is, whether it's on the personal level or a larger collective level, victimhood has never solved anything, ever. So, as much as possible, being able to notice where victimhood exists within our culture, within our society and how it's being weaponized, it's again, it rattles us within our emotions and keep us in a very highly charged and two-dimensional lane of thinking. I think that's something that's important to recognize. Like I mentioned, man, this is a topic that's very close to home. My dad was born in Jerusalem, Palestine. There's a lot of pride around being Palestinian. Growing up, this is a topic which I've been highly conditioned with in many ways and being able to have these conversations and break down some of that conditioning and try to gain a more objective bird's eye view as to what the lay of the land actually is. This is obviously probably a little bit trickier for me than it is for many people. But we all have our conditioning and being able to break that conditioning and have perspective greater than and beyond our conditioning is such a powerful journey, which we can all go on in our own unique ways. And there's so much expansion on the other side of it. And again, man, it's not about picking a side. It's not about one side, one camp being right, the other camp being wrong. But how do we, as like you mentioned, as objective humans, come to a place of truth without having to know all the facts, having to know all the details? Yeah, man. And just to highlight even what I said towards the end of the episode, to anyone listening to this, you are under no obligation to pick a side immediately. Mm-hmm. And it's okay to be in a process of discovery and learning and just even figuring out who you are and what you believe around any issue. It's okay. You don't need to stake your flag in the ground immediately. And it is a process. Yeah. And just being so wary of not collectivizing entire groups of people. There is a deep state America. There is a deep state Israel. There is a deep state Palestine. And there's a nice, healthy America. There's a lovely, kind Israel. There's a generous, wanting to connect version of Palestine. So it's like the way that these deep states and underground kind of groups ferments the surface conflicts and surface emotions into something that's much, much larger. It's much larger ramifications for individuals psychologically. It's something we need to grapple with as well. It's like, it's not Israel bad, Palestine bad. Yeah. And I think this is where having that part of you that can just be a little uncertain, because the reality is, like you said, there are so many things at play behind the scenes that have been happening for decades upon decades that we have no clue about. Yes, you have diligent researchers that do their best to uncover these things that aren't being talked about to highlight them, but there's so much that we don't know. And so, yes, cool. Have an opinion, be on this process, but also understand this, understand no single individual is going to have the entire picture about a major issue, especially something as complex and historical as the Israel Palestine situation. And it's like, we have to check ourselves too, to see where are we operating from a tribalistic mindset? Where are certain tribalistic ideals and beliefs impacting our individual consciousness and our behavior? It doesn't mean like, hey, don't be part of a tribe, don't be proud that you come from a certain place. And it's like, can you integrate the opposite? Can you go, okay, I'm feeling this pull on me from something, I'm feeling this intense, deep loyalty. And hey, listen, if truth is your highest ideal and a high value of yours, you have to be able to put aside some of these tribalistic tendencies in order to explore things on a deeper level. Yeah. Well said, man. Guys, once again, thank you for listening. Just a brief reminder, Rise Above The Herd, Rise Above The Herd round nine, doors are now officially open. You can join us for this eight-week transformational journey, which has now impacted the lives of close to 100 students. So, if you're ready to do the work, you're down to go on a deep journey, addressing your nervous system, addressing your shadow, developing self-esteem, stepping into true vocation, then we'd love to see you inside. Limited spots, as always. Take care, everyone.