David Whitehead & Gavin Nascimento Truth Warrior Roundtable

[Speaker 3] (0:00 - 0:51) What's up, everyone? Welcome back to the Here for the Truth podcast. My name is Joel Rafiti. I have my co-host Erasmus with me as always. Today, we have a new format kind of episode available. This is the Roundtable, and specifically today is the Truth Warrior Roundtable. We have two very well-frequented and popular previous guests of this podcast, David Whitehead and Gavin Nascimento. Both of them go by Truth Warrior, and they're joining us here today to discuss the journey of what it means to be a truth warrior, building discernment, navigating this day and age, stepping up as individuals. Also, we get into a couple of polarizing topics so we can expand our minds, expand our perception, sit between the tension of opposites, and grapple with ideas, polarizing ideas, which I think is so, so important. [Speaker 1] (0:52 - 1:32) Anything you want to add to that, man? No, that's it, man. It's a great conversation. Yeah. All right, guys. Enjoy this one. You are now listening to the Here for the Truth podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Erasmus. All right, everyone. Welcome back to Here for the Truth. We are so excited for today's special episode, our first ever Roundtable. This is the Truth Warrior Roundtable, and we're sitting here with a couple of truth warriors right now. There's no doubt about that. Two of our most popular guests of all time, two of our most frequented guests, Gavin and David, both your episodes, fan favorites. [Speaker 3] (1:32 - 1:38) Absolutely. Just quickly for those brand new, I just want to do a quick check-in. [Speaker 1] (1:39 - 2:58) David, our audience obviously is well-versed with you and your story and your journey, but for those that are hearing you for the first time, man, just a brief introduction, if you can. Sure. Always good to see you all, and nice to meet you for the first time, Gavin. This is going to be a fun little Roundtable. Yeah. My name is David, and you can go to my website. It's dwtruthwarrior.com. I host a weekly podcast there. I make documentary films, and I also am a co-host of a premium podcast that you will all be familiar with if you've tuned into this show called Unslaved with Michael Tesarium, sporting one of the classic shirts today. Yeah. I'm a father, husband, entrepreneur. I've been looking into these types of subjects that I'm sure we're going to get into, history, psychology, philosophy, religion, mythology, conspiracy, martial arts, you name it. I've got a curious mind. I've just been looking into it pretty much for my whole life and eventually started making podcasts around 2008, and I'm still doing it to this day. I'm just trying to learn why this world is so crazy and also the beauty in it and try to rediscover who I am and hopefully pass on the knowledge and information to the audience that tunes in that has been given to me. That's a little bit about what I do. [Speaker 3] (2:59 - 3:10) Perfect, man. That's a lifelong mission that you've committed to. Right. There's no doubt about that. Gavin, good to see you again, man. I know you've been through a major transition, changing continents from South Africa. [Speaker 1] (3:11 - 3:16) I'm not sure if you want to share where you're based now. It's up to you, but just give a brief introduction to our audience as well. [Speaker 2] (3:17 - 5:04) My name is Gavin. Also, likewise, pleasure to meet you, David. I'm very much looking forward to this. It's going to be a quality episode. I really liked the introduction David gave, which is to say that we are genuinely just like kids, which is to say that we are trying to learn and feed our curiosity and understand objective reality and therefore objective truth. That is a process of both learning and teaching, if you want to then pass on this knowledge to the generation to come. I also like the way he introduced himself as a parent. I think it's the most revolutionary job of all. I'm just on my way in this journey, in this mysterious journey called life. I've been doing this now for just over 10 years. I initially got involved because I wanted to actually just find a way to motivate and inspire people. Of course, you journey down the proverbial rabbit hole and you gain more and more knowledge. It's inescapable that in order to empower people and to be authentic with people, you can't just be giving them the drug of motivation. You have to give them the fruits of knowledge, which will give a more holistic approach on how they can defend themselves physically, mentally, and spiritually from those who mean harm. All in all, I am a father. I am a kid. I am a teacher. I am a student. I'm looking forward to learning more and sharing more so that we can broaden our collective perceptions in pursuit of the objective truth in this podcast. [Speaker 1] (5:05 - 5:45) Well said. Two great introductions. I just want to throw in there, I probably say it every time, but just the amount of respect I have for each of you. The impact both of you have had on my life and just the amazing feedback that we've gotten from our audience, from both of you. I call each one of you brothers. Haven't met you in person, but I look forward to when that day comes because I'll give you a big Greek hug. I feel the same way about you two guys. I'm so proud of just watching the amount of content you guys do, the subjects that you take on, just the amount of work you put into what you're doing. It's just incredible to see. So you guys are stellar. Keep it up. [Speaker 2] (5:46 - 5:50) Thanks, man. We appreciate that. [Speaker 1] (5:50 - 6:01) Appreciate that for sure. So have you guys heard, before right now? I've heard of Gab and I just haven't had time to dive into the rabbit hole, but I'm excited to learn more. Cool. [Speaker 2] (6:02 - 6:33) Likewise, man. Actually, I've heard about David before and then I looked up on your podcast and one of the subjects was something along the lines of, I don't want to butcher it, but something like the esoteric history of the pharmaceutical industry. Something like that, which sounds fascinating. And I'll put that on my list. I haven't had the opportunity to watch it because life has just been moving faster than I can keep up with at the moment, but it's on the list. Dude, you would be really into his Cult of the Medics series. He's done, what, you've done eight of the 12 so far? [Speaker 1] (6:33 - 6:34) How many have you done? 10. [Speaker 2] (6:34 - 6:35) I just released 10 a couple months ago. [Speaker 1] (6:36 - 6:38) I'm on my way up to five. I got to get back in it. [Speaker 2] (6:39 - 6:49) It sounds like a fascinating topic, man. It sounds really interesting. Great song selections too, especially in one of the episodes. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (6:50 - 6:51) What was that? [Speaker 3] (6:51 - 6:52) Five? [Speaker 1] (6:52 - 8:36) Did I just finish five like that, I think? Yeah. I want to get this question out of the way. You both go by the Truce Warrior handle and the moniker, so I want to know who's the OJ here. David, when did you start running around with Truce Warrior? Be when I set up my first radio show on American Freedom Radio, which was a cool thing before podcasts online for alternative media. This would have been in 2010, I think I took that name, 2010. And it was because the guy, the producer was like, okay, you got this martial arts thing, because I also run a martial arts school. And I've always been interested in the philosophy of martial arts. And I was like, he goes, well, you should do something with warrior. Because I needed a name, right? And he's like, okay. I'm like, well, maybe like Way of the Warrior. He's like, ah, too cliche. Everybody's Way of the Warrior. I was like, okay. He goes, well, you talk about the truth. You should do like Truth Warrior. And then it made me think of when I was training at a martial art convention, once I got to chat with this Aikido master, and he was the only guy that was teaching that day that was teaching philosophy. Everybody else was just teaching you the moves, right? And I remember asking him, what's the reason we're training martial arts? What's our purpose with it? I know self-defense and fitness, but what's the spiritual purpose of it? And he goes, well, you live in a crazy world, mate. And if you want to pursue the truth, and then have the courage to speak the truth and recognize the truth in the martial arts, you're going to need the spine of a warrior to do it. So, as this producer was telling me, I need a name. And he came out, I was like, Truth Warrior. Hey, it kind of fits with what that guy told me. So, that's my story with Truth Warrior is the title. I love that. Amazing. [Speaker 2] (8:37 - 9:37) Gavin? Yeah, the moment he said radio, he definitely ticked. Yeah, look, for me, it actually started off with Truth Seeker, Gavin. And the reason why I actually did it was to be more practical, like, hmm, I think more people would search for Truth Warrior. It will pick up in the algorithm. This was still back when the censorship wasn't so bad. And it also fits. For me, I'm a big believer that anybody who genuinely and authentically fights for the higher principles that personify humanity, which is integrity, compassion, doing to others as you would have them doing to you, and so on and so forth. That's a warrior for the truth. You know, there's greater truth that represents humanity. But as soon as he said radio, I was like, yep, there you go. You can take that title right there because that is before my time. [Speaker 1] (9:37 - 9:56) Well, we got a couple of Truth Warriors, and we got a couple of people here for the truth. I think truth and warriorship. And hey, I mean, I got to pay homage to the people that taught me, the badasses that came well before me that inspired me to start actually doing public work in this crazy field. So, hats off to those who came before. [Speaker 2] (9:57 - 10:01) Yeah, for sure. We're all standing on somebody's shoulders for sure. [Speaker 3] (10:01 - 10:14) Yeah, I agree. I'd actually like to get a bit more specific and pull that thread a little bit. David, for you, the top three to five influencers all time, dead or alive, doesn't matter whether it's in person, whether it's not, what would you say? [Speaker 1] (10:17 - 12:29) Life-changing influences. I think I would start in order. Came across Alan Watts, Young, Bruce Lee, top of the list, major influence in my life right up to this day. Even though he lived a very short life, what he accomplished and just his message and everything was just very impactful for me. Mostly the writing, it wasn't just the martial arts, it was the writing and the philosophy. Major bombshells from Nathaniel Brandon in my life, just tip the apple card over and off you go. Michael Tasarian, I feel weird having the amount I talk about the man, being that I work with him, but I was a fan. I was just sitting there watching stuff and just looking at this walking encyclopedia that he is. And I liked how he was brash and Irish about everything, but at the same time, never demanding that you just believe what he believed. And I like that. So I like teachers like that, that are like, they're passionate about what they're into, but they're not trying to create a cult. They're trying to run the other way. Michael does things all the time to make sure people stay away. Because he wants to focus on the work. He's all about the work. So people that are about the work, they love the work. Those people. I could get into so many more. Obviously, even people like Jordan Maxall was big in my initial awakening to just get me thinking about certain things. So influential, just in terms of like, oh, maybe we should take a different look at what these religious texts are saying. He was the first guy to tell me about that stuff. Yeah, I could keep going on because there's so many fields like martial art fields and everything. But I'd say, yeah, if I wanted to start somewhere, Alan Watts got me interested in, and people like that, Joseph Campbell got me interested in studying comparative religion mythology. So studying them all side by side, so that you could get a more objective view. Bruce Lee was that guy in the martial art world. And then I would say Tessarian is that guy in the alternative conspiracy research world. And so those types of minds, those mavericks, that's who I like. [Speaker 3] (12:30 - 12:34) Yeah, it's a solid list right there, for sure. How about you, Gavin? [Speaker 2] (12:36 - 16:45) Bruce Lee, definitely at the top of the list. Yeah, Bruce Lee is just such an exceptional character. And like David was saying, people tend to think of Bruce Lee as just like this little badass Chinese dude that could whoop whoever. But the reality is his mind was, in fact, far more capable than his physical body. His physical body was actually a product more so of his mind and his philosophy of Jeet Kune Do, which is more of being adaptive. People don't recognize and realize that what he did with the martial arts was analogous to, in fact, challenging the status quo or how we would as Westerners see organized religion. Because a lot of these ancient martial arts have an undertone of being somewhat religious, and they were, they could be very, they can have their own recipe of zealotry. And so he approaches from a totally different perspective, where it was a lot more pragmatic and practical. And he recognized that truth is something that we are always trying to pursue and come into alignment with. And it's bigger than any one person's perception. And so naturally, we have to always adapt towards that. And just what he did, man, like, in his time, he, the Chinese culture, and this goes all the way back to the opium wars and the sick men of Asia, the Chinese culture was frowned upon in a big way. And they were portrayed in a very negative way. What made Bruce Lee so unique is this dude. Because oftentimes, we become echoes of society, it's a bit of a balance. But more often than not, people become an echo of the society in which they live. Every now and then, you get a really unique and powerful soul, that they in fact change the landscape of the culture that surrounds them in a dramatic way. They take what's inside them. And what's inside them imprints so powerfully on the culture that surrounds them. It changes it forever. And that's in fact, what he did now. So now when we think of Chinese people, it's no longer like the goofy guy with the chopsticks or whatever they had back in the day. But now it's somebody that's going to whoop your ass. Because Bruce Lee, he single handedly did that. That's quite remarkable. In terms of of the work that we do, somebody that really inspired me to be meticulous in my approach was Professor Anthony Sutton. For those who haven't looked into his work, the man is... A great choice. Oh, he's so, so good, man. He's so, so good. To this day, I'm taken aback by the incredible amount of work he's done. And like David was saying, how we stand on the shoulders of those who came before us, without their due, the more complex dynamics of the proverbial chess game that is being played, we would never understand it. Because he was detailing with hard evidence, you know, the sponsorship of the communist revolution, through so-called capitalists, the sponsorship of Hitler through Wall Street and so on and so forth. And it just snowballs. But he did it in such a meticulous, professional, academic way that it's something that I hope continues to inspire more and more researchers, because it feels like it's still sorely lacking from what we do, where people just kind of like, you know, they share random shit. But there has to be a certain standard, because it's not enough just to know the truth, right? You get people who, they slap others in the face with truth. And then the medicine is bitter, what they think is medicine, that it leaves such a bad taste in people's mouth, that it almost kind of psychologically traumatizes them and in fact has the opposite effect, where it pushes away from perceiving the truth. If you know how to provide the truth in a digestible way, sources and citations, which is what I really learned from Professor Anthony Sutton, and you are meticulous, by doing it in that approach, it makes it just that much more effective. So I'm sure I could think of more, but I don't want to get too hung up. Those two people specifically, they've had quite a profound influence on me. [Speaker 1] (16:48 - 19:23) That's awesome. Yeah, I could go on about Anthony Sutton, man, his contribution actually to call for the medics, like the research, some of the points I bring up. Man, the list of people we owe a debt of gratitude to, for us to be here, young men in our time, I was born in 82, right? And so this sort of newer generation, we're picking up the ball from these guys who were just on another level. And the men before them were even on another level. And you go all the way back, whether you're looking at philosophy or just the amount of contributions that have been made, it's actually good to open a show like this with that, so that it's not like we're just talking about all the negative, all the Klaus Schwab's of the world and all the Bill Gates's of the world and the club of Rome's and all that. Before we shine some light on those assholes, it's nice to remind people there've been warriors for truth on this planet since the year dot. And we're just the descendants of that. And everybody listening is a part of this process also. So that's why I always feel like it's so important that we look to who we learned from originally. And then I think it's our job now to, because I think our minds in this generation are a little more savvy with the technology and the social media and the new research tools. So we can expand and add to the work of the great men that had to go into Rolodexes and microfilm and old libraries and all that, which I still, that's still fun. But it's almost like we can get so much more work done in a shorter period of time and then distill it down into a message that anybody can understand. That's the art form we're perfecting us for in podcasting, in posting on social media. And I think that if, but if we remember where we came from, we won't go wrong. Yeah. I want to actually give a shout out to G. Edward Griffin. Oh, yeah. Another one. Jeez. We were so blessed to interview him on episode 88. And we actually had a clip from that where, yeah, man, where he's like, he said, we all stand on the shoulders of giants. And he's like, well, who's going to stand on yours? And it's like, you know, we got to, it's like deep. Very powerful clip, by the way. Very powerful. Thanks. Thanks, man. And it's like, you know, what do we keep doing? And the generations are the people that maybe come up, come onto our material and then they go down their rabbit holes and you know, what do they teach to the people in their life? So it's just a blessing, man, to think about like, you know, who inspired us and then what we do and who will be inspired and where the next generations will go, you know, 20, 30, 40, 50 years from now. Yeah. [Speaker 3] (19:24 - 19:28) And as we just saw, Gavin's microphone stands on the shoulders of Edward Griffin's book. [Speaker 2] (19:30 - 19:39) And then the other one, in case sometimes it's too small, is none other than Professor Anthony Sutton. Two spiritual gangsters right there, man. Yeah. [Speaker 3] (19:39 - 19:48) But great point. And like, it's so important to like, recognize that so much ground has been made. You know, it's not just this overwhelming, overarching, there you go, another one. [Speaker 1] (19:49 - 20:03) Nice. You know, it's just not this like, it's not just this pit of hell, you know, that has just been winning nonstop and we're being swallowed by. It's like, ground has been made, like we have made progress up the mountain and it's thanks to many of these, yeah. [Speaker 2] (20:04 - 20:26) Massive. The thing that I try to also remind people of is, detailed by Sun Tzu in The Art of War, thousands of years ago, is the first step in war is psychological warfare. That if you can make your target feel hopeless, you've won. And that's always the primary goal. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (20:26 - 20:27) You're right. [Speaker 2] (20:28 - 20:30) That's always the primary goal, man. [Speaker 1] (20:31 - 21:17) Yeah. This stuff is key. And the fact that you're bringing up Art of War and bringing up some of these thinkers, and we caught talking truth warrior, I think what was always unique about that was that a lot of people, well-meaning good people within what you call the truth community, they don't have necessarily that dimension of understanding the warfare strategy, the warrior aspect of it. Because when I came up in this field, like if you think pre-2012, and then maybe even a little after, what was really hip in this alternative movement was a very new age kind of view of everything. Very softy, very let's go and meditate together in a meadow, and then that'll get rid of all the evil guys, and we'll just come together. [Speaker 2] (21:17 - 21:17) Good thing Kumbaya. [Speaker 1] (21:17 - 23:13) It was just really like Kumbaya, naive. And I was sitting there going, I don't know that I like that. I was raised by senseis and stuff. And so I thought, well, we got to bring some strength back. And I already saw the decline going on with men in where I'm in in Canada, and just like the mindset of a lot of the guys I was with who were stuck in a state of arrested development, hadn't really matured, weren't really producing any of themselves, were very depressed, very jaded and pessimistic. And it's like the strength of men had failed, as we've heard from many of the prophecies from the ancient times. And I went, well, what would be the best recipe to help resurrect that, especially in this movement, which is supposed to be fighting against literally the most well-organized, well-funded machine of evil ever concocted. And yet we're just sitting around smoking weed by a fire and just doing nothing. That didn't make any sense. I'm like, well, we need to reinstall the values of warriorship again. And what is that? And so the reason I'm thinking in this way is I'm working on a presentation on this to try to bring all of those aspects, Art of War, Bruce Lee, Mayamoto Musashi, Joe Hyams, Chuck, all these warriors to bring that strength back into the movement again, where it's not combative. It's what we've been talking about, about individuation, self-discovery, self-esteem, who are you. If they're attacking our countries, our cultures, they're attacking you just because you're a man these days, or a white man or whatever man you are. They're attacking you because you're attackable. But if you become immortal, as the warrior class would say, you become immortal in your enemy's eyes, then you're untouchable. And we need a bit of that coming back, I got to say. So that's why I like it. We need to be seen as a real threat, right? [Speaker 2] (23:14 - 23:22) Yeah. We are a real threat though, man. You know what I'm saying? And they know it. They know it better than we do. That's why they put all these resources towards disempowering us. [Speaker 1] (23:23 - 24:07) We need to become unfuckwithable. And you talk about psychology before and truth seeking and being a truth warrior. It isn't just about sitting in your fucking mom's basement and going down all the rabbit holes and living in doom and gloom. What truth can be discovered when we turn the gaze inwards? What universe lies within? Obviously, I think we're all aligned in that way. How do we become more knowledgeable of ourselves on all the different fronts? And that's what I think ultimately makes us unfuckwithable is when we focus on the self, on the body, on the mind and the spirit. It's not just about like, well, did you hear what Klaus Schwab did today? Did you hear what the new X disease? And did you hear the new thing that's coming? We're fucked. We're ruined. Oh my God, everyone's going to die. [Speaker 2] (24:08 - 25:51) Most of that shit is theatrics too. That's what, like David was saying, a lot of people aren't fully aware of that introductory. That's really a part of an introductory education about what is taking place is first a recognition of how psychological warfare even works. Because if you don't know that you're a target and you are actually being kind of toyed with and played with and oh, did you see disease X? Not recognizing that first and foremost, there is a theatrical aspect behind what they're doing. That always has to be considered because they know being a tiny, tiny minority and having the inescapably vulnerable dependency on otherwise decent human beings to carry out their shitty deeds. And that makes them very vulnerable because oftentimes the most formidable weaponry and people that rise up against the proverbial system and the parasite clause or people that are one time served it, that they became disillusioned. And so they naturally have to create these theatrics. It's like the wizard in Oz, the wizard of Oz. The guy's over there, he's got this big charade going on and oh, this shit is so scary. But when it comes down to it, what is a David Rockefeller? What is a Henry Kissinger? He's some old ass man that I would bet on my sister whooping him, like literally, if they were alone in a room. So we also have to put content. It doesn't mean you underestimate your enemy, but undeniably, we have to be very mindful of the psychological warfare at all times. And then like you said, you get people and then what are we doing? We're actually manifesting our own demise because we're pacifying ourselves psychologically. [Speaker 1] (25:53 - 28:36) Yeah, that's well said. I was just going to add that if you think about it as an attitude, right? And it's an attitude adjustment. This is my biggest beef with the black pill types is that to me, you're exhibiting the wrong traits if you're trying to be masculine about it or strong about it, right? Men and women can exhibit this no matter, it's not about that. It's about your attitude. And what warriorship is, is you can look... So there's one extreme where people aren't looking at all at the problem, at what's happening in the world and all these different things, right? And the fact that we are in an asymmetrical warfare scenario, right? We are at war. It's just a different kind of war than our ancestors had to fight. This is a war of the mind. This is a war of information. This is where the battleground is being fought, is in this domain, right? So realizing that you can do one of two things. You can ignore it and pretend nothing is wrong and everything is just ponies and rainbows and there is no evil happening in government and there is no evil going on with BlackRock and Pfizer and any of these things and there's nothing going on. And then the other extreme is that everything is going on all the time and it's hopeless and unstoppable and just having panic reactions to every little thing that comes across the newsfeed. To me, I can tell who's been under duress and trained for it and who hasn't. And I think that what I'm trying to do is encourage people that you have to know that you are stronger than you think you are and you need to engage in activities and even thought exercises that enhance that part of you. And if you're not doing that, you will be run over by this system of propaganda. They will get into your mind. They will install fear, which is really all they need. And then you are now a slave again, because you're a slave to the fear. And then that means you're a slave to them who are wielding fear over your head. So that doesn't mean not looking at the evil. It means looking at it and laughing, looking at it and pointing at it and saying, hey, you see that shit? Don't let that shit go on in your neighborhood. Hey, you better watch for that. That's how, in my opinion, a real warrior would be. They're not afraid of the battle that's in front of them. But at the same time, they're not obsessing about, oh my God, what if I get hit with an arrow, the first charge? What if you can't think like that in war? You go to war equipped with the right mindset that is capable of achieving victory. Whether you die in the fight or anything, you need to have that kind of mindset. And if we brought that mindset into this movement, and I'm not talking about physical violence or anything like that, because it's not even necessary, then it's over for those bullies in our government and the media and everything else. The forces of darkness got no chance against that type of mindset. Yeah, right. [Speaker 2] (28:37 - 31:55) And just to quickly comment on what David is saying there, oftentimes what we overlook is, I think a lot of people in the so-called truth community are very much aware that ignorance is a detrimental and dangerous thing. Absolutely. But what people don't recognize is that fear can be equally, if not even more, pacifying and more dangerous than ignorance. And so if we promote fear, especially to those who are not prepared, because the system has managed to very carefully and through its skill calculation and awareness of esoteric psychology and how to weaponize it, has in fact put a lot of people in a state of psychological trauma. That's why you're always seeing these very over-the-top responses to minor silly things. Everybody's offended about some stupid bullshit. That's a trauma-based response. And also when David was talking about changing our mindset, the other day, sometimes I have these fucking weird health problems and shit, and it'll be so painful that it actually prevents you from doing some kind of mindful work. You know, the work we do, it requires a lot of mental endurance, and it's very demanding. So I thought, okay, what else can I do? Went and quickly made a video. And then while I was doing that, it dawned upon me that one of the fundamental issues in society is the moment we feel stress or discomfort, what do we do? And I'm talking about us as an aggregate, as in general terms, we look for an escape, some form of escapism. And of course, I went down that path, alcohol, porn, just all kinds of crazy shit. And you look for some kind of relief. And of course, also, if you're having, let's say, some kind of chronic pains, even then you do it, because even though it's irrational, because that's what happens with your mind, it's important for people to also understand the processes of their own mind. Even though you yearn, and you impulsively become reactive, and you seek something to quickly escape your pain, if you can just sit with it for a little bit, now, whether that's physical pain, mental pain, emotional pain, if you can sit there for a moment and say, what's the most intelligent action I can take? If people can develop that capacity, and it's just like any other muscle, it takes time, you exercise it, you learn how to use it, then that will, in fact, begin to reflect in every other part of our lives. And then collectively, we won't be so easy to manipulate, because now something happens, there's a knee-jerk impulsive reaction. And then this puts us in a reactive state. And a lot of the system is geared towards that, right? You have your phone, it's always asking you to react with notifications. We are creative beings. So the moment they can also pacify that creativity to create something new in this world, to create or adapt that which came before us, create something new, and communicate the truth and fight for the truth, but now you're just becoming reactive to the fear, that also pacifies us. So I thought, you know, let me just quickly comment on that and add to what David's saying, because it's 100% true, man. [Speaker 1] (31:55 - 33:00) Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And you're speaking our language. Obviously, you guys know my background with nervous system work and somatic work. And like, how do we build that capacity to deal with discomfort, to deal with the fear, or just sit there to notice what's going on in our body before we kind of just live out these conditioned reactive responses from a limited state? And so, but this is the lifelong work, you know, and this is part of it. This is part of the truth warrior, truth-seeking process, you know, that I think a lot of people don't put the focus on, because the gaze, again, is focused on the external world, all the devices, all the news clips, the algorithmic programming that comes in front of their face on social media, and then they just share something or agree with something because their favorite influencer posted it. You know, it's like, and by the way, I'm not like 100% immune to this. Like, I have moments where like something comes across, oh yeah, but I'm like, I got to check myself. You know, what's going on? What's happening in my body? Like, can I feel my feet on the ground? What's, like, why do I feel contraction around my heart, around my belly? This is really subtle work that I think people need to do as they move forward, especially as we continue on this world that we have. [Speaker 3] (33:01 - 33:30) Yeah, totally. And you know, what we're talking about in this conversation right now is like, you know, building emotional intelligence, but it's as within, so without. So, I think that emotional intelligence inward is reflected in terms of the discernment that we exert outwardly. And I think that discernment is more necessary than ever, because I feel like this information age is being weaponized against us, whereas in the past, like they could kind of hide behind a veil. And now I feel like the biggest detriment is they're throwing so much information at us and they're allowing it to flow. [Speaker 1] (33:31 - 33:39) Even the most radical conspiracies and ideas, people are latching onto everything. So, you know, we only have a limited bandwidth. [Speaker 3] (33:39 - 33:44) So, being able to discern what is actually worth our energy and time has never been more important. [Speaker 1] (33:46 - 38:51) Yeah, discernment. That's a good word, Joel, because I think that's where it's at. People think in extremes. I was talking about this with a guest recently about two-dimensional thinking about every issue. So, immediately when something hits the algorithms, everybody's picking a side of the argument, right? And maybe there is a legitimate right side and a legitimate wrong side. But aside from that, people are not investing the level of time and research and thinking that you would need to do to come to a very accurate picture of it. And they're just jumping to conclusions on it. We're all guilty. We all do it. It's just function. So, being aware of that, we have to be careful when we're looking at all these things and have the capacity to hold multiple options in your head. It's an explanation or a theory or a conclusion. You got to have multiple in front of you at all times. And then you're just taking in the data and the information and you're going with the best argument. It's like you're asking us, you've been training jujitsu. You and Sophie, I see some of the pictures. Yeah, we're a few months in, man. Doing a little bit, right? And I've been training a lot more and it's such a good metaphor and it feeds into the Bruce Lee thing, which is martial arts in general. But what's unique about jujitsu is it's dealing with pressure, right? You're dealing with a human being putting you on your back and putting pressure from the top down into your body. And then you have to try to find a way to escape and get a better position, right? Just to keep it simple. And that to me mimics what's going on in our minds when we're doing this kind of research into these kinds of subjects that are so explosive, they're so divisive, there's so many theories, right? And when you're thinking of jujitsu, you're going through a selection of moves that you maybe have seen on YouTube, or maybe you've practiced a few, or you're making stuff up as you go. And you're forced in a very small window of time with pressure put on you to make a decision as to what the best solution is. And oftentimes it's the wrong one. Nine times out of 10, you will select the wrong option and it will get you screwed in that match, right? But that's what jujitsu is powerful for is that it and real martial arts where it's hands-on, it's not just sitting there talking about it, is that you're realizing that most of our judgments are wrong. Most of our instinctual judgments are wrong when we are stuck in a fight or flight mentality, okay? Your intuition is always just spot on. If you can connect more intuitively and somatically, you'll find your answers to the questions or your solutions, the problems are much quicker and they're more effective. But thinking about how people get stuck in two-dimensional thinking is they'd be like addressing that side control pressure with, well, I saw Gordon Ryan do this escape on some world championships, so I'm going to try to do it. And they don't see any other option than that because their favorite guy does it this way. They can't quite do it like that yet. And yet, they can't think of another option. And I see this kind of mentality in the research field where I'll present an idea or I'll put something out and I'm sure you guys, you'll interview a guest that has a different take on something. And my intention is to entertain other possibilities and try to get my hands around as much of it as I can to be as informed as possible about what's the best truth here, what's the best facts that I can see. And you get people just unable to even entertain a new idea. They're stuck in the first answer they were given. The first answer they were given to some question that was bothering them in their lives, that's the one. And I'm like, well, what if there's another answer? And what if there's even another answer than that? Or what if you take that for a while, you keep that with you and then down the road, you end up seeing a better option, right? So, I feel like I know it's kind of like the razor's edge definition of cognitive dissonance and genius, but genius has been described by people like Walter Russell and many other thinkers as having the capacity to hold multiple conclusions and theories in your head at once when analyzing something. But it's funny how the definition for cognitive dissonance is very similar. It just adds one thing. It says, you're holding multiple contradictory views in your head and believing them both simultaneously. That's the difference. You're believing both contradictory theories simultaneously and that's creating this thing called cognitive dissonance. Whereas that genius mind is able to sit back and view it objectively and go, interesting, few points for this one. That makes more sense because of this new piece of data. Oh, but then this guy makes a good point about this. And then, oh, that guy over there who I completely disagree with on every other point. Wow, he brought a gem of wisdom to this one point that I've never heard before and it made me rethink everything. So, I think that humility and that process of being able to think in three or four dimensions of thought instead of just, it's either black or it's white, end of story. I think that's going to help evolve our ability to see the truth because the truth is veiled otherwise. [Speaker 3] (38:52 - 39:52) Yeah, man. I love that you brought that up and I think this is the perfect segue into where I want to go with this conversation. At the moment, we've all been very agreeable. We agree on the conversation. We agree on the basics of truth-seeking and discernment and whatnot. But, I might throw some topics out that they now have the potential for disagreement. Let's see where we can land together. So, David, I know I'll start with you. You were deep, to an extent, I guess, correct me if I'm wrong, but deep in the Q world initially. I believe you do still see a lot of value and validity down that path and in the potential for Trump, etc. Just to get a brief, I guess, just to kick this conversation off, where do you currently stand? We're in an election year 2020. With the optics, the potential for Trump, good guy, bad guy, what discernment is necessary, where are you at with all that? [Speaker 1] (39:53 - 45:18) Yeah. I've had a very different take from Trump from a lot of people on the left, the right, the center, the up, the down, even people in the Q world. I've got my own little unique relationship with that whole phenomenon. I've been following it intensely. I followed Trump's career well before I read his book, Art of the Deal, a long time ago. Wow. I followed his career a long time before. I did spend some time working in Hollywood and spoke to some people that worked directly with him, etc. I did my own following of what happened with 2016 moving onwards. I personally think that I don't see the credence to these arguments that are made that the guy is somehow in on it. Some people might not like him. They have disagreements with him on certain things. They may have not liked certain things he did, although there are some interesting ways to look at that. Some of those things definitely take some time to break down. I put that as an aside because of just the sheer amount of attack that this man has gone through. When you actually look past what's said and start spending some hours reading executive orders and reading what was actually done, listening to the people closest to him, getting into how he dealt with Epstein, which is usually your number one rebuttal that people will give you. They found a picture of Trump with Epstein and all of this. When you really put it all in context and you study it through, I feel like the guy was legitimately trying to save the country that he loved. I feel like he's playing a role to a certain extent, but I personally have a lot of hope that he's going to be able to do more harm than good if he comes back into office, simply because of the type of people that are completely against him. When it comes to the Q stuff, I'll just say it. I'm a fan of Trump. I support him. I hope he comes back. I think that would be a step towards being able to help things in my country, Canada. There's a whole situation of context that I'll have to explain there as to why that might be. When it comes to the Q thing, the way I see it is I personally think that the original posts that came out were definitely from a legitimate intelligence insider, where there's some people that believe that down the road it got changed or that it got banjaxed. Other people still believe that it's still in operation. But the people that have the most trouble with it, I often ask them, where did they go and read any of the information that was put out through these leaks? Where did you go and read up on it? What did you actually read? Or did you get information from a Q person and then make your opinion based off that? I found that 99% of the time, most people haven't even read what was put out, because it aligns so much with what I've been trying to say since 2008 in so many different regards. I know there was a lot of disinformation put out as well. I know that the moment any level of truth came out of those posts, there was a massive information war that was waged against that information. I definitely think there's a certain amount of credibility. I'm not going to go so far as to say that the whole thing was just perfect. But I guess I'm looking at things from a big perspective and a long game. There was one accusation that was made by Alex Jones and some of these other guys about Q, which I disagree with. Then there's many things I love about Alex Jones too. But I disagreed with them bringing out this whole Operation Trust thing, which I know that story inside and out, the Operation Trust, which we can get into if you need to. But basically the accusation was that this movement was set up as a COINTELPOP to get patriots to sit back and do nothing while their country was taken over by the deep state, and that Trump and this Q thing was just a distraction to stop any legitimate resistance. And I would actually have to say, no, the fact that we're still here and the fact that there's over 200 million people around the world that are engaged in sharing information, researching, people coming from different perspectives, they're now analyzing every Super Bowl halftime video, every advertisement on YouTube, every political speech, every nanosecond of everything that's happening and trying to share information, making memes, which have just taken down the media on so many occasions. I have to say overall in the long term, based on my experience before 2016 with this movement, we've gone leaps and bounds ahead in terms of getting this kind of information to the masses, to the normies of the world. In a way since 2016 till now, that wouldn't have been possible without Q and Trump and those people. And I would obviously put the truthers in that category as well. I feel like we're aligned. So I'm not a pure Trump Q person, but I'm an ally and those are my reasons. Let me just put it like that. Cool, man. Perfect. Thank you so much. Gavin, I know in previous episodes you've expressed that you believe there's no chance that Trump is a quote unquote in on it and isn't part of the team. [Speaker 3] (45:19 - 45:25) I guess, where are you at now and in hearing where David's at, what comes up for you? [Speaker 2] (45:26 - 53:15) Look, I definitely entertained the prospect and the possibility that he could just be somewhat of an anomaly in the establishment, which is to say that that's happened throughout history. You get people that they can run in the same circles, but they still are somewhat diverse. Julius Caesar is probably one of the earliest examples of that, where he did a challenge to the system in his own way, even though he wasn't necessarily a benevolent. I mean, he's a controversial guy, that's a whole other article. But in relation to Donald Trump, so I try to look at the objective reality and then I try to gauge that through my own critical thinking capabilities. So now when he was campaigning, for example, I'm just taking some notes of some of the things that he promised. He said that he would audit the Federal Reserve Bank. He said that he would investigate and arrest Hillary Clinton. He said that he would investigate 9-11. And I think I may be wrong on this one, but he said something tantamount to looking into the banks that were responsible for some of the financial scandals. Now we know that he didn't actually do any of these things, at least to the best of my knowledge. Then in relation to, let's say, for example, the so-called pandemic, he was a massive proponent of the vaccine, of Operation Warp Speed, very close to Big Pharma. I know people make the argument that he is working with these people to a certain extent because it's necessary. And that's a bit of a moot topic because we can go back and forth with that one. It's very difficult to say. But I look at those things and of course, with the JFK file, he had the opportunity to pursue that more. He had the opportunity with Julian Assange to pardon him, which would have been a very powerful thing to do. He didn't do that. With the Libor scandal, I don't know if you guys recall that, it was actually a massive trillion-dollar scandal with the banks. He actually forgave some of these big banks like Citigroup and JP Morgan, and I think Deutsche Bank. I don't remember the other ones. And he also had financial connections to them where he had outstanding loans, something along those lines. So his behavior is very much conducive to playing on the same team. And it was very theatrical, just almost like any other politician when he was getting campaigned. He made these massive claims. And I remember being part of that climate and that atmosphere and seeing behind the scenes, I'm sure David can attribute to this and possibly you guys as well, when people were very excited because he was saying things and he was talking about stuff that really was inspiring for so many people. And I was very reluctant because I've seen this story before. And not to be narrow-minded, but I'm just cynical about people that go into politics, period. So as I saw him doing that, I was very reluctant because anybody can make a claim. It doesn't necessarily mean you're going to follow through on their claim. And what struck me and what I've seen in my own limited research in relation to history and how the parasite class adapts and the establishment adapts is that there are changes and they always try to be just one step ahead of it in one way or another. If you look at leading polls that predate Trump's entry into politics, the trust in mainstream media had dramatically eroded. People were in fact turning more to social media at that time, which was nowhere near as sensitive as it is today. There was a little bit of censorship, but it was nowhere near comparable to today. And then when Trump came into it, he almost co-opted the alternative media in many ways. And to me, it was almost like the proverbial trump card. It was a good chess move to play. Now, again, I'm not necessarily saying that's the case. This is just something to critically consider. But the one big smoking gun to me is I think to myself, well, if you want to create positive change, which all of us, this is something that we are dedicated to, it's a higher principle than ourselves. I believe that's actually what being a truth warrior is about. It's about fighting for something much greater than yourself, human principles. And you know, and David was talking about this earlier and I wholeheartedly agree, we're so privileged to have the platform that we have today to where you can share your thoughts with the world. Whereas literally back in the day, you could get people that would travel continents and hope that they would convert or speak with 10 people. There's that famous monk in Vietnam that lit himself on fire just in hopes that they would take a photograph and that photograph would make the rounds around the world to raise awareness and create outrage. And fortunately it did, but that dude sacrificed his life for a photograph, just in hopes that it would kind of incite some kind of awareness and action. When you have the platform of the president of the U.S., you have the best platform just about in the world. What's stopping you, and you know, we're talking now from what we know, when you have this vantage point of being in the president's seat, and don't get me wrong, the way we interpret it and the way that it's also presented to society is, I'm sure, nothing like the reality. It's an incredibly complex position and I can only imagine all the unknowns that we don't know about. But what we do know, at least myself as an individual, is that you have this platform. There's nothing stopping you from calling a live conference worldwide, having it televised internationally. And then in doing so, you drop some of the most powerful, imaginable, and unimaginable truths ever. Because truth is what sets people free, not human beings, not individuals. And so once you release this knowledge and this awareness into society, regardless of what may happen to you, may or may not happen, you have now released a power that is going to echo throughout the world and the cat's out the bag, the genie's out the bottle. So to me, if you're genuinely fighting for the truth and you have that platform, you're going to give it your all in that platform because you realize it's not about you. Like I'm here today, I might be going tomorrow. It's about what you leave behind. It's about what the next generation can pick up. It's about what's going to inspire others. And I just feel like aside from all the actions that, I mean, didn't order the Federal Reserve, didn't investigate 9-11, all of these different things, massive proponent of the so-called Operation Warp Speed and the vaccines and all that shit, which is just unreal to me. There's a businessman, don't get me wrong, all of those things. And then the fact that you have a platform and you don't utilize that platform to release, I can only imagine the secrets he has access to. And then also his position in the world commercially, I just feel like he could give a lot more than he does. It doesn't mean that I'm hanging him, doesn't mean that I'm judging him as being a completely controlled opposition, but do I trust the dude? No. [Speaker 3] (53:15 - 53:18) Now a short break from the episode. [Speaker 1] (53:18 - 53:20) I read a quote today by Neil Strauss. [Speaker 3] (53:20 - 53:48) He says, Surround yourself with people who embody what you want to bring into or keep in your life. And this made me immediately think of our community, Friends of the Truth. It's so important to be around people who inspire you, who embody and do their best to live up to the values that you also want to uphold and strive towards in your life. So Friends of the Truth is our membership community. We had an amazing members-only podcast and Q&A last week with Denny Katz, who joined us. [Speaker 1] (53:49 - 54:02) So once you join Friends of the Truth, you get access to our entire back catalog of calls, nervous system tune-ups, German New Medicine study groups, astrological weather updates, plus exclusive members-only podcasts, 60-plus hours. [Speaker 3] (54:03 - 54:15) You get access to our incredible Telegram group. We have amazing individuals now connecting daily on these topics, motivating each other, allowing iron to be sharpened by iron, and also to laugh, to connect, to be vulnerable, to cry. [Speaker 1] (54:16 - 54:33) I cannot speak highly enough about what we've built in Friends of the Truth. I'm so incredibly proud of what's taking place there. So if you're down to not only just support us, but bring in a line community in your life and take a step further into our piece of the truth world, I do recommend Friends of the Truth. [Speaker 3] (54:33 - 54:40) You can learn more by hitting the link in the show notes or by heading to friendsofthetruth.co. Back to the episode. [Speaker 1] (54:42 - 55:47) Well, fair points, Gavin. I mean, you bring up some good points. If I would have known we were going to do this one, we could spend the entire podcast, we could go through each one. But I don't think it's necessary. This would be my only response. And I don't even want to sit here and convince you. I'm not here to do that, or even the listeners. I'm at a point with this subject that I don't really care what people think. You either looked at it and saw what I saw and agree with my hopefulness about the situation, or you don't. And even I don't know. Nobody does. There's maybe 10 people in the world that are sitting in that table that know. But here's some food for thought. And so I just want everybody to know, in no way am I an adversary to anybody that doesn't like Trump or thinks the Q thing and all that was all just a bunch of bullshit psyops. Because most of those people are on my side about everything else, and I'm on their side. And I was more of a truther before I got into all that anyway. So my loyalties are there, right? But let me just ask you a couple of things here. You brought up The Art of War. When was the last time you read that book? [Speaker 2] (55:48 - 55:52) It's been a long time, man. It has been a long time. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (55:52 - 56:14) It's a good one to check out. There's a few good quotes. I won't go through them, but it's interesting that Trump named his book The Art of the Deal. And do you know why he named it that and not something else? I mean, it's a pretty catchy title. It's a catchy title because he's a fan of The Art of War, and he actually talks about how he based the book off of The Art of War. [Speaker 2] (56:14 - 56:21) But a lot of people in business are. It's become a go-to book. It's one of the most popular books in the world. Fair play. [Speaker 1] (56:21 - 1:11:54) There's a few steps here. So if we think Art of War, and then to me, no one will understand the Trump phenomenon without understanding what was in those Q posts and how if any of that is true and provable, that there's a connection between the two, which I believe if you wanted me to ever come on and do a podcast about it, I could prove that there's a connection between the Q team, whoever that was, and Trump. It's irrefutable that there's a connection. Even the mainstream media would love to hear me say this so that they can keep throwing more slings. But there's, in my opinion, if you just take my word for it, that there's an irrefutable connection between the posts and the tweets and the drops and the communications that were done by Trump that are still being done to this day, then it gives you a different perspective on the situation. And this is what I mean. The reason I brought up Art of War is that the entire book Art of War is about understanding that war is about deception, specifically deceiving your enemy. So let's just follow this logic through. See, because you and I, Gavin, you're a good man. You're an honest man. You're here for the truth. You wear your heart on your sleeve like I do. You just want to go up and tell everybody the whole truth, and I feel you because the human race wants that. I want that. You want that. What if that's not possible? How do you untangle the knot of what we call the deep state in America as an outsider? Let's just make an assumption here that Trump is not part of the club, because all indications are that he's definitely elite. He's wealthy. He's a billionaire. He's been to all the parties. But the amount of vitriol and attack that has been levied against him by Hollywood, by the media, by both the Republicans and the Democrats, by half the population of the planet, the amount of forces working against him tells you just one thing, that if there's that many public forces against him, how many forces are working against him that maybe only you and I and the people in this room are aware of when we talk about deep state, Roundtable, secret societies, the work of Anthony Sutton and all these guys, that there's these elite groups, these bloodlines that have infiltrated and captured our nations over the last, say, 100 years, or even if you just want to start from the Second World War. If we think about the fact that America is not America anymore, as even though Trump's role, I believe his role was to help remind America and the world of what America was supposed to be, and then let the world witness the attacks against him when he did that, which is going to showcase the fact that there has been an assault against the principles of freedom that established America. This would be one way of helping to wake people up to the media. It's sort of a reverse psychology operation that you would do. You can't just walk in as president when you realize that there's, what, 30 classifications above you in the military industrial complex, that the government of America has not been run by the elected officials for a long time. You get elected, and you get in, and we would all love to sit there and go, okay, Trump, just drop it all. Tell us everything. We're JFK, the whole thing. He's like, I'm going to go in and I'm going to look at it. He said, I'm going to put every conspiracy theory to rest. That's what he said. Because he didn't achieve that in four years, running uphill with arrows shooting down at him and back of him the entire way, even though he accomplished a lot, to me, it's a little short-sighted to understand that this isn't about a four-year election. This is about a 16-year process that was planned out to untangle the knot of the plans of these groups that have infiltrated America, what we call the deep state. So you can't walk in and have your public face match what you know deep inside, because A, you'll be assassinated. B, you're surrounded by sharks on both sides of your party, which Trump found out, but which I think he was fully aware of the entire time. And you also understand human psychology. If you understand human psychology, the way a businessman like Trump would have to, in order to be successful to the level that he was in business, then you'll understand what I'm about to say, which is that just look at the information that has come out to the public and gone viral. And I'm talking about in the public, in the general public mind since 2016 till now, and compare that to what was come out prior to, and look at how it's already driving everybody crazy. And what I'm saying is, it's like the old statement in that book or that movie, A Few Good Men, where what's his name is saying, I want the truth, Tom Cruise, I want the truth. And dude is just saying, well, you can't handle the truth. Well, he's talking to a commanding military officer. That's their mindset. Because they think, they believe through the many psychological analysis and all the stuff they know that the human race and the American public can't handle the knowledge that their country has been taken over by a multi-generational satanic empire that is incredibly evil beyond your wildest imaginations. And you can't have Trump just walk in there and just openly say that at that stage of the game. The other reason I brought up art of war is that when you are fighting outnumbered, outgunned, and outmanned against a superior enemy that has a superior position, how do you conduct that war? Do you walk out and call that fighting force that has the, let's say they have the high ground advantage, they've got you surrounded, they got all the arrows pointing at you, and you're just the little 300 Spartans. Do you walk out and go, come along, let's just do this right out in the open? Or do you have to work a different game of strategy that involves faking them out and leading them down the other direction and then sneaking up behind and employing like ninja tactics? You know what I'm saying? Like what's more effective? So I think what people expected was for Trump to just go in there. He's the president. He's promised all these things. We got all these drops and they thought he was just going to walk in there. And within a few weeks, he was just going to dust them up, arrest everybody and off we go. And that was the impression given not by the Q posts. That was never given by the Q posts. It was given by the people that read it and interpret it as such. So this is my argument is that what we're seeing with Trump is smoke and mirrors to a degree because of the fact that he has to play a certain role and he has to play this role very on the razor's edge because he has to tell the people the truth. But he also knows that it's not just the good people like us that are listening to him. The people that are listening the most intently is that enemy that just so happens to have America by the balls in terms of being able to do some very, very drastic measures if he's ever successful. So what if I put this to you? What if something like this occurred where before Trump left after he supposedly lost the election to Joe Biden to an 81 million votes that never happened, if he just said, okay, military, they staged this election. We know who we're dealing with. Go in and arrest these guys and let's do this. This would have started civil war in America. Why? Because the vast majority of Americans on all political sides have been raised and groomed and trained by the media and by the propaganda of the deep state for literally generations now. So as much as we wanted to go in and tear that bandaid off and do it all in one fell swoop, that's impossible to do because the negative effects of doing that would have been greater than the positive effects. This would be the argument I would give about the vaccine. This would be the argument I would give about a lot of issues that people are like, what's up with that? And the way I would say it is look at Trump, if you were to even entertain this theory, and it's just a theory, you don't have to believe me. If you were to entertain this theory, you have to look at Trump as bait. This isn't just Trump coming into the presidency. Trump was asked to run by six different military generals in the US military who were patriotic, who saw what happened under numerous administrations, and it wouldn't matter, Democrat, Republican. And they knew that this time around, if Hillary Clinton would have gotten in in 2016, that would have been the final stages of what we call the 16-year plan to destroy America and basically hand it over to the globalists. And if America fell, the rest of the Western world would fall because Europe has already conquered and demoralized and completely infiltrated. Canada, it's over in that regard. We're not doing anything. You need America if you're going to get this, and you only have one opportunity to do it. And what if you gamed this out and using the type of simulated supercomputers that they have, these warfare strategy machines that can simulate these things out, and they saw all the possible pathways of how they could actually untangle the knot of the deep state while not having civil war breakout or a massive bomb going off in a major American city or something that these psychotic Satanists would do to preserve their power. How do you balance all those scales and then also win? Well, you have to win in the public mind first. And this is why he'll be out there complimenting Hillary Clinton one day and then exposing the crimes the next day or saying, oh, I went and visited the queen. She's so lovely. She's so lovely. Meanwhile, right after he goes to visit her, she steps down from a major office in Britain and can't even walk around wearing the royal crown when she's in parliament. And there's many other examples of just these interesting things that have happened that shouldn't happen. And so I guess I'm just trying to say that the way I'm seeing this is don't take anything on face value. If you take what Trump is saying and doing on face value, in my opinion, you've lost the plot. I'm not just saying you, I'm saying a person, is that if you were to look at it from this perspective, that we're dealing with asymmetric warfare and that there's an understanding of how the public psychology works along with this, that you can't just arrest all the bad guys. You have to wake America up too. And because of the connection to the situation with the world, you also have to wake up the world as well to avoid World War III, massive civil unrest, and a complete decaying of our civilization. So there's a lot of sensitive threads that need to be maintained when you're doing an operation like this. And so what if Trump was the bait, to be the bait for the media and for the rhino Republicans, the deep state operatives on the right, the deep state operatives on the left, to draw fire, to draw them out. He's the guy going, I'm the balloon animal that you're all going to be laughing at. And that explains why we have something like Trump derangement syndrome and all these other things, is because that was his role. His role was to be the big bait to draw fire from the enemy so that everything could be captured in a massive sting operation. And this is how you would conduct it. And the reason I'm even saying this, and people might think I'm crazy, but does anybody know how they actually brought the mafia down in New York? It was a multi-year, I think it was almost close to a decade, of infiltration and a massive sting operation that took hundreds of people to be involved, where people had to play characters and get in there and infiltrate and then take down one mafia don at a time until they got to the top. Because if you just go in and arrest some of the local gangs, the top guys that are hiding behind the veil, they just replace them the next day. So Trump goes in, he arrests Hillary Clinton. Who the fuck is Hillary Clinton compared to the real 13 bloodlines that run America? She's fuck all, she's nothing. So arresting Hillary Clinton, okay, might be great because she's definitely guilty of various crimes, but it's not the head of the snake. And if you want to take down the head of the snake and do this right so that you don't just have another head come in its place, there's a very systematic and military strategy format that you need to follow in order to make that happen. So the next place for me to go here would be to start getting into specifics, but I don't think we have time for it. That would just be a general way that I would say, I took what you said, Gavin, and I hear you. I totally hear you and I respect your position and I understand it. And I'm not even saying I disagree with it because it's an important position to have, right? Valid critiques. But just it's healthy to also look, have those different theories at the same time and go, well, what if some of those things could be explained by the fact that we're dealing with a warfare scenario and that there are many variables in play that need to be kept as they are for the time being, because the timing isn't quite right for all of those other things to take place. Now, if nothing happens further, let's say Trump comes back and he gets elected and then none of those other things happen, well, then I've got no case here. And I was wrong about this, right? But if things are turning around as they already are, we're learning more about Epstein Island. Nobody even knew about this subject before Trump came in. He's the one president that's done more than any other president in history to combat human trafficking. That was the whole point of building the wall at the southern border, by the way, was to deal with the trafficking. And there's many other things that he's done. He was the first president to go through a four-year term without starting a new war and actually brokering historic peace deals with various nations while he was there. And there's many other positive things, the resurrection of the economy, even though he knew it was a rigged economy, just like we did. Look what he did with a rigged economy. What could someone like that do with an unrigged economy? And how do you get all these embedded enemies? How do you even know who all the enemies are if there's players acting on both sides? Well, you have to go in and cause a big circus in order to draw fire and draw these people out so you can identify them and sting them one at a time behind the scenes over time until you get to the head of the snake. And that would be the only way to do it. You can't just kick the door in and go, okay, guys, you're all under arrest. The deep state is just too big and powerful for that. So strategy and espionage and just the entire book of the art war to me would be the counter to just taking everything on surface value. Well, first of all, I just want to say, I love that I have a front row seat to what's going on right now and observing your minds and what you're sharing. And it's exemplifying so much of what we talked about in the first part of the episode and how we can communicate maturely, I think. I don't think Gavin's going to come out right now and be like, fuck you. I don't believe what you say. [Speaker 2] (1:11:55 - 1:11:56) No, no, no. [Speaker 1] (1:11:56 - 1:11:59) But I'm saying even just the ability to hold space. [Speaker 2] (1:11:59 - 1:12:02) We stand for the same principles. That's the important thing, I think, for people to understand. [Speaker 1] (1:12:03 - 1:12:46) Yeah. And I'm hearing this and I align with a lot of what you're both saying because I'm doing my best to hold space for the possibility and grappling with and staying in this tension of opposites that I think is so important as an individual, whether it's personal growth or just looking externally at what's happening in the world. So I just commend you both and I'm enjoying this and I'm sure our audience is going to enjoy it. I'm sure Gavin's going to want to say some things, but there might be some other things we want to get into also. But anyways, I just wanted to jump in there and share that. I love it. And go ahead, Gavin, anything, man. I'm an open book and I like hearing other takes on it too. I don't know everything. I don't know for sure. This is my cross theory. This is my fingers crossed theory right now. [Speaker 2] (1:12:47 - 1:12:56) Yeah. Look, I mean, in all honesty, I hope that you're right, because for me, it's just about getting the job done. And I'm sure you feel the same way. [Speaker 1] (1:12:56 - 1:12:57) Yeah, I agree. [Speaker 2] (1:12:58 - 1:13:20) But just in relation to some critiques, some rebuttals, there are some anomalies that I've considered that are very interesting, such as the removal, I think at one time was from NATO and then also with the WHO. That doesn't assimilate with obviously the globalist plan. So those are things to consider, right? [Speaker 1] (1:13:21 - 1:13:25) He also went in and flipped off Davos. I just got to say that. That was brilliant. But anyways, keep continuing. [Speaker 2] (1:13:26 - 1:17:10) Yeah. So in relation to that, there's some anomalies there. But now some of the things that I just wanted to critique, and this will also again, because it's not just about us and expanding our perception, but it's also about expanding the perception of the audience to consider as many possibilities and probabilities as they can. And then you'll never fully align yourself with the objective truth, because it's bigger than any one person, right? That represents every single perception that is possible and every perception that we have yet to gain in the future. Because truth is just this massive thing, right? But for example, you were saying for him to conduct this war, and he's got all of these forces going against him, that in itself, again, going back to the art of war and psychological warfare could be theater. Politics today is more prominent than at any time in history. People used to say that the Super Bowl or the World Cup were the most extravagant and entertaining events. Today, it's politics. Today, it's who's going to win the election. And in the US, like I've been in different countries, I was in South Africa, I'm in the Philippines now, people talk about the Soviet. So when the president is being elected in the US, there's this huge thing, it's on the news 24-7 in other countries. So it's in your face, it's actually become like a reality show. The reason why I have a major critique about all of these forces being against him is times have dramatically changed in terms of their capability to also wage more pacifying ways of warfare. So bio warfare, nano warfare, they don't necessarily have to kill him, they just have to pacify him. And they could do it in such a way that the overwhelming majority of society around the world would be completely unaware that, oh, he's just got a chronic illness, he's an old guy, he's got cancer, he can't talk anymore. There's many ways to pacify without outright eliminating. In fact, if you make a march out of him, it could arguably make it infinitely worse, right? Another thing that I actually had a front row seat in this is you mentioned the human trafficking. So I've actually worked for a anti-child sex trafficking organization for about 14 years. And I've seen how these things unfold. And it's actually been a big problem for decades, for a very long time. And the politicians were aware of it. However, my sister, I'm so proud of her. I try not to put my sister's business out there too much because she's done it through more conventional pathways into creating positive change, which is to say she's explored the government routes. And I don't like her to be associated with what I do, which is I just fucking talk about whatever. And I've seen the struggle that those people have gone through, man, to raise awareness about child sex trafficking. And I would argue that the public perception and awareness preceded the actions of the politicians, which often is the case. And then because of the public awareness and the outrage, this in fact forces the hand of the politicians and then it becomes propitious for them to take action. In fact, and it's quite tragic, but after human trafficking became this hot topic, they started to actually engage in actions of entrapment where people that weren't legitimately involved in human trafficking were now being labeled as human traffickers because the FBI would entrap them. And it looks good. And there's a lot of moving parts to that. It's not just Donald Trump. And we can't trust the FBI. [Speaker 1] (1:17:10 - 1:17:13) We can't trust them. And Trump would tell us that himself. [Speaker 2] (1:17:14 - 1:21:02) Yeah. So there's those things. And then the other thing as well, and this kind of aligns with the whole aspect of the human trafficking and raising awareness in relation to that, the public doing so. I think it was Gandhi. Don't get me wrong, he got plenty of faults, but he had a great saying where he said, when the people lead, the leaders will follow. And that's largely because they don't have much of a choice. That's my view on that. Not to be too cynical. And in relation to, like you were saying, all of these things coming out, if you look at now compared to 2016 and how awareness has snowballed, I would argue if you look at now compared to 20, 30 years ago, or let's say 20 years ago, one of the major events that I use as a marker event was actually the Iraq war, the protest against the potential invasion of Iraq. Back then, biggest protest ever in history. Still recognized in the Guinness Book World Records, specifically, I think it was the one in Spain or Italy as the largest protest in history. I'm sure there's been larger and they've repressed it with the whole lockdown stuff and everything. And the way people don't realize this, because they haven't afforded us the opportunity, part of, of course, psychological warfare is something called kettling. So you actually have people, different pockets that are all collectively protesting the same thing, but you don't want to make them aware of one another. What happened with the potential invasion of Iraq and those massive protests that were going on worldwide is the establishment media tried to completely conceal it. And now people will need to remember this was in the early 2000s. This was, I think, 2003. Yeah, it was massive. And they were trying to engage in this process of kettling. So they didn't want people to know it because they know it'll snowball. People see, oh, they protest now. I want to go protest too. But it was largely coordinated through the internet. And so what I see more than Donald Trump is that the introduction of the internet, like the introduction of the printing press in the past, that has facilitated a revolution in information sharing and thus awareness. And what follows there is an actual revolution. So we're living in a state of revolution. And I don't feel as though Donald Trump is so much a causative factor behind that, so much as he's kind of swimming in that ocean as well. I think it precedes him. And the revelations that he's made, I don't feel like it's any major revelation that hasn't already been stated by people within the truth community. Again, just to state, I do hope that you're right, man. I genuinely do. I mean, that would be fucking fantastic. And it's possible. But when I consider the probabilities from my own perspective, which, again, it's limited. We all have a limited perception of objective reality. My probability, my gauge is more cynical about it. And I'm more of a believer that what liberates people and what will eventually liberate us is just releasing the information, the knowledge, and the truth. I don't even think that the major positive changes that we seek are going to happen in Donald Trump's lifetime, and maybe not even our lifetime. But I feel like it's something we contribute towards. And then hopefully, in the much grander scheme of things, it helps us get one step, two steps, three steps, four steps closer to that greater process. And who knows, man? Maybe because things are moving at such a fast rate now, they're taking quantum leaps quicker and quicker. Also, with the explosion of technologies, which coincides with the information sharing, we may in fact see these massive changes in our lifetime. But Joe, without going too much into more of this stuff, those are just some of the critiques that I have on my end. But I do genuinely hope that you're right, brother. [Speaker 1] (1:21:04 - 1:33:00) No, and I hear you. And I guess my only question would be, so I can understand that final rebuttal, was that I think you were trying to say that the movement of awareness towards the human trafficking issue, just as one example, was happening separate from what Donald Trump added to it. But I think sometimes I sit back and I go, okay, so here we've been saying for a long time, okay, we can't trust politicians or people that go into politics because blah, blah, blah. They're paid off. They can't speak publicly. I mean, who knows what kind of boardroom you get brought in once you get elected, and here's all the footage of JFK, and don't step out of line. I don't know. But when one does, we still go, nah, you still had nothing to do with it. I would say Trump's numbers in America and then worldwide in terms of anything he does, the amount of numbers this guy can generate is unlike any other human being ever. It's insane, the amount of attention, the amount of cameras, the amount of people analyzing every sentence he said, everything. And especially when he became the president and was a controversial president because of what the media generated around him. And obviously, his personality, and he just throws punches at people that punch him. He punches back, and people don't like people that punch back, so they go after Trump. But no matter what, he created controversy because he knows, first of all, let me add another little point about Trump. He is a fight fan. He's been in the fight business for a long time. And he knows about how to create personalities. He was in television, Hollywood. He knows how to create and drum up personalities so that they can become successful. He's one of those personalities, which is necessary in the market if you're going to achieve that success. And so the one way that you generate, I'll give you an example. Look at UFC, for example, if you follow any of that or any sport. There's only a few names that you might know if you follow the sport passively. And yet there's hundreds of competitors in the sport that are maybe even better than those famous names like Jon Jones and Conor McGregor and all these different things or Muhammad Ali. You probably couldn't name the top 10 boxers of all time. The first boxer that's going to come in your house, Muhammad Ali and a couple of those guys. Why? Because during their era, they drummed up controversy. They were very loud. They were very controversial in their public statements. They roasted their opponents to smithereens on camera and it went super viral in their day. And that ended up making them a superstar because of the controversy. So Trump came into office and established controversy because he knows that's what speaks to the American mind. That's what the Western mind loves. Americans love a good tangle. They don't want to watch some boring Republican primary debate that's bullshit. They want to see someone go in there and scorch Hillary Clinton and say, yeah, you'd be in jail if I was a... They want to see that. So you drum up controversy to get viewership numbers because you're going against an antagonistic media. And in doing so, you create a massive online alternative media of your own made up of new people joining the fight that weren't in the fight before, that weren't part of the truth movement, that weren't questioning what the media was saying. Now they are. And then you bring attention to this issue of human trafficking with those kind of numbers. You end up making it so big that the media has to report on it. You get some of your buddies like Jim Caviezel and other people in Hollywood who I know they're buddies. You get some of your buddies to make a film about it that's going to go viral on its own, even though the media is not reporting on it. They're not talking about it. They're talking about Barbie. I think it outdid Star Wars in the first release months is this new film, Sound of Freedom, which is just like, I know it's not the full enchilada, but it's a toe in the door for your grandma and your uncle and your cousin that weren't looking at any of this stuff, that didn't believe there was a deep, dark world to be exposed. Now all of a sudden they're like, holy shit, this looks a little bit more real. Right after that film comes out and goes super viral, even though it was being suppressed and attacked in the media, by the way, that Trump on day one had come out to tell the American people, yeah, it's all fake news. So I already loved him right from that moment because just going after the media is already points on our side. Weeks or not that long after that film goes viral, we get new Epstein files coming out. The fact that we're even talking Jeffrey Epstein is because of the Trump administration, is because of that era of Ghislaine Maxwell. Under what president did both Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell not only get arrested, but lead us to interviews with Prince Andrew, who then just recently came out on the new client lists, right? And all these other guys were learning about the Clinton family. We're learning about the Bidens, the criminal racket they've got going in Ukraine and all this other stuff, the Biden laptops, then the Wiener laptops and this Pizzagate stuff, all that stuff, even though Trump would only hint at it, he would only talk about it here and there. And he would say, we got to stop these evil human traffickers. And don't forget too, there's tweets of his going back to like 2013, where he was openly speaking about this. So he's known about this issue for a long time, especially being as he's hanging out with some of these things, right? So imagine you're him, you're one in a million of all these other elites that are all involved in these things. And you know, you can't just come out and start outing everybody. You have to do it strategically. And then you come in by way of military proxy and intelligence officers that are behind that know as well. You see the whole thing with Assange and Wikileaks. And I know everybody's like, why do we need part in Assange? I would say it's because of timing. It's because we're not there yet in terms of what the public can handle all at once. You and I can handle it all at once because we've researched it and we've already done that soul searching to do that. But grandma can't handle it. Cousin can't handle it. Person still watching CNN every day can't handle it. So you do it stage by stage. And I just can't help but wonder that when you compare also acts on the ground, the amount of arrests of human trafficking rings, the amount of high level executives in CNN, MSNBC, Fox, all of them have been retiring, stepping down, being arrested for child porn and all this kind of stuff only started happening after the Trump administration came in. And it's still happening. So there's been a trend that was started on the normie political level that didn't exist prior to Trump coming in. So all I sit back is go, thank you, PSYOP. Thank you for getting us a few inches ahead in this fight to help wake up the masses. Because I'm sorry, I'm all for individual solutions, but we're at the 11th hour here. Our civilization is going to get wiped out if we don't turn the ship around. So any arrow fired at the black gate that's going to cause a splash, to me, is a point for our side. Whether it's the whole thing or not, maybe that's where we pick up the ball. And that's why in Trump's rhetoric, whether it was his inauguration speech in 2016, or whether it's any of the recent speeches he's been giving, is he's saying my job is to come in here as an outsider, to give the power from this deep state corrupt establishment back to the people. The people are going to be the solution. And then when you start going to those Q posts, 90% of them are telling you, it's not Q that's going to save the world. It's not Trump that's going to save America. It's the American people that are galvanized around the truth that's going to save the American people. Which is what I liked about the message, was it was that message. It was not what it was painted as, as being wait for saviors. Trump is the savior. That was never, in my opinion, what the whole point was. And anybody that believes that, I disagree with them. I'm not into having these savior puppets in front of us doing it. And I understand why that's the sort of impression that's been given. That's why I say my take is a little bit more unique, in that I think that if someone like Trump just knows how to reach the American mind, and what they like, and what even just draws their attention for five minutes, where he can start bringing these things into the awareness, that's a win. One more thing I'll say, and then we can move on, is about the vaccine. I hated the vaccine speeches as well. I questioned it many times. And if I was sitting in front of Trump right now, I'd be like, what the hell, bro? What was up with that? But what I could say as a possibility here that would make sense with the theory that I'm proposing, just for your consideration, would be that, first of all, between Trump and the Biden admin, who was offering mandates as a way when it came to solutions with the vaccine? Well, Trump was always against mandates from day one. All the other politicians were for mandates. All the WAF graduates were for mandates, because that was the mandate from the who. Trump was against that. He also, before the vaccine, was talking about therapeutics, Regeneron, hydroxychloroquine. He was even taking hydroxychloroquine at the time that he got COVID himself, and then walked off the helicopter 24 hours later and went, hey, guys, I'm back. I don't even need my mask. See? And he got torched by the media for doing that. So he's like, I tried that with the public. And he realized, because they have their own internal polling, that the American public was against him on that. It wasn't just the deep state and the pharmashills that were against him on that. It was the American public, his own supporters. Why? Because they've been raised with big pharma propaganda that vaccines are the new Jesus Christ. And so he went, damn. So then he tries to say, well, we got this other light therapy that we could use. We got all these other therapeutics that we could use. And in the end, we should let people decide. So then Operation Warp Speed could be explained as, this isn't Operation Warp Speed to get Anthony Fauci and Bill Gates' mRNA death jabs into everybody. The tongue in cheek is, this is Operation Warp Speed to force the hand of the pharma complex to deliver an undeveloped product earlier than they wanted to, to force them at warp speed to put it out early. To also simultaneously, when did the frontline doctors come online? They came online at the exact time that the vaccine came online. These are all the American doctors that are to this day, like Simone Gould, all these other guys that have been warning everybody about the vaccine. Then you had Mickey Willis and that gang making Plandemic and Plandemic 2 that went, I think it's the most viral documentary of all time with like over 5 billion views total now, that went around warning people about the jabs. And more people saw information about the jabs and their side effects at that time than people were getting because they weren't watching the mainstream media. So we saw a lot of people took the first two jabs and then started to peter off. We started to see that even people that supported Trump, they were asked, if Trump says to take the vaccine, are you going to take the vaccine? 90 plus percent of them over and over again, no, I'm not going to take it just because Trump said it. Because they already knew from the back channel information what it was. It didn't come directly from Trump. It was an indirect counter strategy of reverse psychology. So that's the way I would explain it in that theory. But again, optics, which is part of strategy are extremely important when you're dealing with the mind. And that's why we always say on Unslaved, the number one subject that is overlooked by researchers in this field is human psychology. And I'm sorry to say, but it kind of shows in that regard. And I'm not saying with you, but I'm saying with so many that just sort of jump to the conclusions that are logical steps, unless you take psychology and some of these other factors into consideration. And with that, I'll just rest my case there. [Speaker 3] (1:33:00 - 1:33:38) I just want to quickly add to the vaccine commentary. We've got an inside commentator, someone who we trust very, very well, who was directly connected with a high profile individual who I'm not going to name, who is an outspoken anti-vaxxer, who is directly connected to Trump. And this individual, our connection, was privy to a conversation between this high profile person and Donald Trump, and Trump saying, darn about all my vaccine rhetoric. That's all persona. I'm completely on your side. You're doing your thing. And to me, I take that as an A-grade report from where it came from. [Speaker 1] (1:33:39 - 1:38:03) It's funny, Joel, you say that, because I've also spoken to people that are in the same position and I've heard similar information. Whether we can confirm all this, again, guys, none of us are behind the curtain here. We're going off little smoke signals. I get it. I don't have an open and shut case right now. And I would actually say people should listen to Gavin's points because they're good points. But now you've heard another explanation. Don't believe either of us. Go look into it. If anybody wants the details and the specifics, I've done presentations on this. I could do more. I kind of backed off the whole Trump Q thing because it just was so hot. I'm like, I got so much other shit to focus on. I'm going to do my work. Let's just hope they're doing their work. But in the end, maybe we can zoom out a little bit, if I may, and just look at in general, regardless of Trump and some white hats, the fact that maybe we've stopped believing in humanity. And I get it. We're getting a little more jaded because of the fact that, man, we just witnessed mass chaos and mass psychosis. So we're assuming that everybody's in on it. Everybody's evil because it has gotten to this point. And I guess I push back by saying, I'll bet you, like I live in Canada, and I would tell you so much of our government is swamp, so much of our government is infiltrated. But I still meet people that work in government, especially local government, that are completely on our side. I meet people in the military, especially the military. The amount of people I speak to in the military in both the US and Canada, Australia, it's ridiculous. And they are fully awake. They are begging for the truth to come out. And they are on our side. Intelligence community, I've spoken to people in CSIS. I even had people from British intelligence I've spoken to. And these are people who are like, it is very corrupt. It's deeper than anybody knows. And we're just kind of behind the scenes. We don't really know what to do because we're outnumbered behind the scenes. So if you're a small minority of people within the establishment that are patriotic, and they want to see the truth, and they are humanitarians, how can you be effective within your current role if you're in that situation? You're basically working with the mafia around you everywhere. How do you do that? Well, the only way to do that is to leak information bit by bit, and then slowly build up mass awareness. So I think that we could look at it like this, maybe humanity in general, maybe the universe is conspiring to bring the truth to humanity. And some people can say universe, God, spirit, whatever you like, that there's a higher influence happening, that there's an influence even astrologically, like gentlemen, you've spoken to on this on your show, that there's a sort of, we're surfing a wave of consciousness right now, where we're being put up against the wall of pressure. And some of the older souls or more intuitive souls out there that are waking up are seeing it. And human beings are being woken up in every industry, in every realm of government, in the media, in your local school board meetings, in your local churches. It's like the spirit is moving through humanity. And that means that there is a possibility that at any time, even someone that was maybe working for the other side, wittingly or unwittingly before, might have an awakening and might actually change to the side of truth and freedom and justice. And so maybe if we're seeing this phenomena, we're zooming in too close. We've got to zoom out and say, in general, regardless of who's on what side, truth is coming out. The spirit of freedom is moving. Look at the farmers all over Europe. Look at the trucker, look at all these movements. So I say in the aggregate, take it all together. Forget about the fights about individual people and who they are. In general, we are in an amazing time because information is coming to our vision now that has never hit the human race like this before, which means the great awakening is happening, whether there's white hats involved or not. And that's why I've been saying, you are the white hat. We are the white hat. We have to save ourselves. And hopefully we've got some help in higher places, but maybe we should assume we don't and carry on and bring the torch of freedom home. [Speaker 2] (1:38:06 - 1:41:35) Okay, just a comment on that quickly. Sorry, man, my little boy came busting up behind my lady and stuff. No worries. I'm definitely a major proponent of what David's talking about, which is trusting in our inborn humanity. I think that's what it comes down to. I think we were fundamentally designed in a way that's conducive to upholding truth, integrity, and so on and so forth. He's actually a great guy. I talk about him often, or at least his studies. They often refer to it as the moral life of babies by Professor Paul Bloom of Yale University on babies as young as three months old. And it clearly shows that we have a moral compass and we have a warrior-like spirit to step about that which we perceive to be evil. I think for me the biggest thing just in the exchange of ideas and perceptions is that I actually have more trust in the public mind, in our shared humanity than specifically an individual. And Donald Trump, he's a very polarizing figure. Everybody represents some kind of a symbol in the public's view, talking about the psychology behind everything. And he's very strongly associated with the right wing. And of course, you've got the left, you've got the right. And that is one of the new, most potent levels of tribalism and division and divide and conquer is this left and right paradigm. I think it's important that whilst you can certainly get behind some of the things that Donald Trump stands for, and some of the things you're pointing out too, David, because there are possibilities, right? We remind ourselves that what we're fighting for above and beyond everything else are human principles. So our shared integrity, our shared humanity, our shared desire for truth to abound, our desire to see just a better world, decency, things that are not relegated to a particular skin color, a particular race, a particular political party, but they unify us. And so rather than getting behind one specific figure, if we see this person exhibit and communicate these higher principles, we get behind those principles. And in doing so, we can always find ourselves on a shared and common ground that, you know what? I'm about that. Whether it's a person coming from the left or the right, or they're black or they're white, or they are religious or not religious, they are exhibiting the higher principles of humanity. And that's ultimately what I believe we are fighting for, is this shared notion that precedes all of the tribalism that has been inculcated to divide us amongst ourselves. And so in that regard, there are things that I can see by listening to what you're saying, underneath all of that, even though we don't necessarily agree based on our perceptions, we agree on our principles. And I think it's just an important reminder for everybody that's listening now, we're always going to have different perceptions. We all have different perceptions. It's inescapable because we had different parts in life, but we overwhelmingly share the same principles. And I believe that once we work together in that regard, we can make so much progress. And I think slowly, but surely that is the direction that we are going towards. [Speaker 1] (1:41:36 - 1:49:10) Yeah. And I think the other thing, well said both of you throughout this whole time, I think the other thing that's important to consider here that we see too often online is that you probably agree on more things than you don't, and yet you see very often in social media in the world that someone says one thing you disagree with, and then you completely toss them out and everything that they stand for, you label them controlled opposition. And so it's just another example too, on how, how can we be discerning? How can we listen to people? How can we communicate maturely? And I just commend both of you, obviously I respect the shit out of both of you. No, I appreciate it. I would, yeah, I was just saying that's the two-dimensional thinking again, right? There's nobody that I would say I agree wholeheartedly with on every subunit, even the people that I work with, the authors. Because I believe in the vision of individuation, right? And that it's the idea that you are able to develop your own mind. Yes, there's going to be influences and teachers in your life, but in the end, you must eventually shed that and grow into your own mind, right? Which is a contribution of many, but that's still distilled by you into your own belief and opinion and everything else. So, and then the only thing I would say just quickly about the idea that Trump is cast as this right-wing character, we always have to ask, who is casting anybody as anything? Where do we get our opinions on any of that? Is it from the policies? Because if you look at the policies, there's many policies that are more left and more right. It's a mixed bag. Trump himself voted liberal the vast majority of his life. He was asked by Oprah Winfrey back in the day to run for president. And then she is now one of his biggest haters, as well as the rest of the left wing, because of the fact that he was shining a light on certain things they didn't want. Even the topical treatments he would give them was just a bridge too far. So, we have to also remember that when we analyze public figures and people that we don't know personally, and this goes for me too, that might be more favorable to Trump. It goes for all of us to realize where did we really get our general impression of these people? Where did we get our information about who these people are, what they really stand for? How do we work on our discernment when it comes to our judgments of others, or even other influencers, or even people that have other ideas? Like even some of the theories that I brought up in Canada, I would be called probably a right-wing conspiracy theorist, misogynistic homophobic. All the names would start to come in because of the baggage around Trump, or America, or the principles of freedom. Here in Canada, the people that support Justin Trudeau that are still on his side, like the small fringe minority that still supports him, they would call me a freedom person, meaning D-U-M-B, that freedom is dumb. And they're getting their general impression of what freedom means from what, their Marxist professors, and the media pundits, or whatever, that work for the government. So I guess all of us need to constantly be looking at our discernment, and then use your intuition. See, for me, I got to be honest, with Trump, it was an intuition thing first, then it was confirmation, and then it was me being honest about the things I didn't like. And then realizing I can't just put all my hope and everything into one man that I've never met, right? But on the same token, that doesn't mean rejecting it entirely and not noticing the wins. We've gotten so many wins because of it, right? So then I just go, okay, whoever's doing it, how can we turn that into another win? How can we benefit from all of this? And how can we actually make some progress? And so you're right, Gavin, the principles are the same. We're on the same page. And I like that you have a different opinion. For God's sakes, do you think I want to walk around and talk to myself all the time, where everybody believes the same thing I do? What kind of a boring world would that be? How would I know if what I'm talking about is any merit, right? Unless you're challenging me. You're asking this, if I came and rolled with you, and you rolled exactly like I do, we wouldn't get anything from each other. You have to pull a different triangle choke set up that I've never seen before, that I got to go, oh shit, I never saw this coming. And then that's going to challenge me, right? So if we can get the dialogue in this community, and this is what we tried to do with Earth Chronicles. And Gavin, you probably don't know, but I did a bit of a stint on Badlands Media on Rumble, which was a big account for a while with Josh Reed, good buddy of mine. He's got a great podcast at redpills.tv as well. You've had him on guys. And he and I started this show called Earth Chronicles. And we're going onto a platform that is very pro-Trump and very pro like that side of the fence in America. And yet Josh and I are coming in there with a different take on Christianity, a different take on many of the things that are even founding of America, even other things. And we're looking at things from different perspectives. And our whole mantra was unite the clans. Because I know in the truth community, you've got all these clans. You got flat earthers over here. You got Trump QAnon people over here. You got black pillars over here. You got everybody's a shill over here. You got these little kids, the yoga new age guys over here. And then the crazy, basically neo-Nazi groups over on the other side of the fence. And if you sat down and had a beer with any of these people, you'd probably find more in common than you wouldn't. But online, there's nothing but division and infighting, and we're wasting our ammunition on each other. And so our mantra was, we might not all agree. Even Josh and I have disagreements on things. Michael and I have disagreements on things. God, Joel, you're asking, we'd probably talk a while, we'd have disagreements. Good. How do we unite on common values? Because it doesn't even have to be a lot of things. In order to take down this dark empire that's trying to destroy the world and reshape humanity, all we have to unite on are three things, truth, freedom, and justice. If we unite on, and there's probably some others, but that's just what I like to say, keep it simple, that our goal is the truth. We're not selling ourselves, as we call ourselves truth warriors, we're not selling ourselves as being the truth. We're selling the idea of truth, like make truth great again. Make the process of discovering truth and the passion for truth great again, rather than comfortable lies. Let's bring back the principles of freedom again, which Joel just did a show on Unslaved, talking about some of the aspects economically with that. That freedom is an inside job, it's something you practice, there's tangible aspects to it, and most people aren't even taught what that word even means anymore. Then justice, meaning you reap what you sow, whether it's good or bad. Those who do acts of evil and break the natural law should have justice done to them, the right kind of justice. If we start on principles there, I don't care what shape you think the planet is, or who you think is a white hat or a I don't care. I care, are you firing arrows in the same direction at the same dragon that is trying to swallow all of us up? Then we can have these little skirmishes and debates on the side after, that's cool. I got to just jump in there. I love what you're saying, but I feel like sometimes when you talk about uniting the clans, it's like, what kind of arrows are we shooting? People are arguing over what kind of arrows we're shooting at the same enemy and what arrows are going to bring us closer. [Speaker 2] (1:49:10 - 1:49:11) Any arrow, anything. [Speaker 1] (1:49:12 - 1:50:12) A paper airplane, that'll be enough, just something. Something, anything. Basically, I want people to fight back against tyranny and fight back against the, resist the urge to just go with the ideas that are appealing only. Go for, I'm going to keep my mind open, not so open that my brain falls out, but open enough that I'll be on the track of trying to find the truth, which means I got to do the work. I need personal responsibility and all these principles that need to come back. The warrior principles. If we stay there and we can agree on that, then I'm sure we can deal with these other skirmishes. I think in the end, we're all just hoping that something breaks soon. Something is, because we can all see the walls closing in. We see the tumult of the world. As men, we're trying to find the solution to it. Just stay on the game. I think there's higher forces at work behind this. We got to trust that. [Speaker 3] (1:50:15 - 1:50:32) I absolutely love it, man. I think conversations like this are so powerful and so potent in service of everything that you've just said. Because people just get so drawn and sucked in these different camps and we get so magnetized to even different truth seekers and truth speakers. [Speaker 1] (1:50:33 - 1:50:40) But I think by being able to have these conversations, these psychologically mature conversations around polarizing topics, actually provides freedom. [Speaker 3] (1:50:41 - 1:50:53) It gives people the opportunity to, as Rasmus said, stand in between that tension of opposites and hear both sides of an argument, relate to both sides of an argument, and not have to be drawn into one single narrative. [Speaker 1] (1:50:53 - 1:51:37) This actually gives people the opportunity to trust themselves, to trust their intuition, to build their discerning qualities. I think this is what's necessary. Well, and also to have the self-esteem to not have to fucking pick a side immediately. We didn't get a chance to really get into the Israel-Palestine thing, which I know we wanted to. We might have to do a part two at some point. But it's October 8th, pick a side now. Now, you have to pick a side. If you don't even talk about it, you're a horrible person. Can I just have some time to just take in information and go through the things that I'm feeling, whether it's around that issue or other issues? It's like, why do we have to be forced to pick a side immediately when I'm in a process? [Speaker 2] (1:51:37 - 1:54:03) 100%. And that's part of what they try to do is they actually want us to go into a camp, because this is as old as the hills itself, the strategy of divide and conquer. Pick a tribe, pick a tribe. And it's very polarized. And then in the midst of that, very ironically, and through the awareness and understanding of occult psychology and psychological warfare and how to do these things, they will have both sides very ironically, simultaneously thinking they are fighting for the principles of humanity and they are fighting against evil. Very skillful how they do it. But if we can remind ourselves, I think a lot to take away from this broadcast is that we have a shared humanity, shared principles, shared desire for the truth, a lot more in common than we do not have in common. And all of us have a limited and different perception of objective reality, which is just another word for objective truth. Reality and truth are two sides of the same coin, just different words that are essentially expressing the same thing. And it's impossible for us to know, at least at this point, based on our awareness, it's impossible to know exactly what that encompasses. So we have to have these exchanges. There's a great saying that a debate is an exchange of ideas, whereas an argument is an exchange of ignorance. So if we have these exchanges of ideas, we broaden our collective perception. And that's a never-ending process. And so we have to be humble in doing that. Like children, having my little dude, man, he's the best thing ever because he helps to remind you what a human being innately is. And I like to say that they're the only real scientists because they're objectively trying to understand the world behind them or around them without any preconceived ideas about what it is and what it's not. And so it's important. I think we have that childlike element where we come into this world and we humble and we say, you know, there's so much to learn. All that really matters is that the person that I'm speaking with, irrespective of what they believe, they have the same roots in the principles of humanity. Then whatever soil and whatever they're using to nourish those roots to grow, it's going to be slightly different. But we have the same roots. We come from the same roots. If we come from the same roots, regardless of the fruit that we bear, that proverbial fruit can help to feed us and help us grow collectively as a human species. [Speaker 1] (1:54:04 - 1:54:17) That was a bombshell right there. You guys got to clip that one. That was a nice one, Gavin. And I'll just say, as you brought up your kid, it made me think of my kids. In the end, if we can't unite on anything else, let's unite around the children of this world. [Speaker 2] (1:54:17 - 1:54:18) They are the victims. Amen, brother. [Speaker 1] (1:54:19 - 1:55:39) And hashtag save the children. And I'll tell you, from people I know in the Trump Q side, to the people that hate Trump and Q, to the people in every camp you can imagine, to even woke liberal friends that I have that are still not aware of what's going on, we all agree on this point, that the children are the ones that need to be protected by the adults of this world. They are the future. And so we should put all of our petty differences aside for their sake. And the evil insidious agenda that is being done to the children of this world from every background, from both sexes, everything, if we saw that and realized what's going on, it would wake humanity up in a way that I don't think we've ever seen before. And the power of what we could do to stop this evil from happening would be unprecedented. And I believe it could happen. So let's unite around that as a starting point. And then I think that's a good place to start at the very least. Yeah. 100%. David, you're never coming back on the show again. You just said there's only two sexes. Oh, shit. It's going so well. Notice I didn't use gender. I've started a new thing. I'm getting smart. There's no such thing. It's sexes now. Guys, I genuinely get the feeling that we've struck gold with this collaboration right here. [Speaker 3] (1:55:39 - 1:55:49) It's an absolute honor and privilege to have sat here with the three of you. I had a list of five or six topics that I wanted to get into. I got into one. I got into a single one. [Speaker 1] (1:55:49 - 1:55:57) So I'd like to organize a second roundtable with the four of us. Let's do some of those other topics. I'm down, man. For sure. Amazing. [Speaker 2] (1:55:57 - 1:56:03) I enjoyed it. Well, I enjoyed it too, man. It was a pleasure to chat with you, David. Same here. [Speaker 1] (1:56:03 - 1:56:42) Yeah. Well, I'm just happy that you guys got a chance to connect and be in the same room together because you guys just do amazing work. Our individual interviews with you were amazing. Yeah, looking forward to doing this again. Before we wrap up, you want to share things about yourself. I know, David, you said your website at the beginning, but just let people know how they can support you and follow your work. Sure. Well, definitely go check out the Unslaved podcast, unslaved.com. A fee for it, but it's well worth it. Michael and I've been doing that since actually about 2016. There's just research on there you'll never see anywhere else and many amazing interviews with our hosts today. [Speaker 2] (1:56:42 - 1:56:43) That's how we met. [Speaker 1] (1:56:43 - 1:57:59) For my personal work, yeah, for my personal work, you can go and check out my new free online documentary series. It's called Cult of the Medics. It is my almost 18-year research project into the occult history of the medical industrial complex. And I told that story, getting into the history of that overlaid with the COVID pandemic and as it happened. So each chapter is almost like a time capsule because I produced them while things were happening. And I brought some current events of the time that they were produced into the film. So it's kind of a nice little thread. I'm 10 chapters in out of 12 that I've planned. And I put it out for free because I just want the information to go as far and wide as they can, put a lot of work into it. But anybody that wants to support me, there's many ways they can do that at cultofthemedics.com. And then for my regular podcasting that I do regular shows, I bring on guests, I do presentations. I also have a premium section where I do like real deep dives on subjects that I love. You can get all of that at dwtruthwarrior.com. And then finally, don't forget to follow me on both X and Telegram. And you can get those all on my website if you want to check me out there. So man, Avin. [Speaker 2] (1:58:02 - 1:59:56) Yes. At the moment, man, life is so crazy for me. I'm actually just trying to get a foundation. Like we don't even have a fridge. You know what I mean? There's a lot of work to be done high up in the mountains. We don't have a physical address. I mean, it's a lot of stuff. But apart from that, people can support my work on Patreon. I'm going to gradually move from there because Patreon is just another part of the system, just in a different kind of a way. But there's that. And then if people would like to gauge a bit more and take a bit more of a deep dive on, I suppose, the inner workings of the system and then how it assimilates into the modern day, they can check out the recent publication I wrote, A History of Elitism, World Government and Population Control. That's pretty diverse in its approach and explaining specifically what's going on. But it ends on a good note because I am optimistic. I genuinely believe, like David was saying, there's higher forces at play. And I also believe that how we were created, our human blueprints, I think it's so intelligent and so remarkable that when these dark insidious forces try to put us in these really uncomfortable positions and make life so horrible and difficult, they actually force us into tapping into deeper resources internally, which very ironically facilitates our evolution. I'm not saying it's necessary, but I'm saying that's what I think happens. They think they can outsmart the great grand master chess player and I think they're going to lose their game. Apart from that, I'm just floating around, man. People just look me up. I'll be around. I do have something that is cooking in a proverbial pot, but I'll announce it once it has been solidified and then I will be happy to announce it to the world. [Speaker 3] (1:59:58 - 1:59:58) Awesome, man. [Speaker 1] (1:59:59 - 2:00:00) So much love and respect to you both. [Speaker 3] (2:00:01 - 2:00:05) Thank you for being here. Hope the audience enjoyed it. I'm sure they did. I can't wait to do it again. [Speaker 1] (2:00:06 - 2:01:55) Everyone, thank you so much for listening. Thanks, Tibor. Thanks, guys. In many ways, the conversation was a dream come true for me, man. These are true legends. I was into both their work prior to you and I starting a podcast. They've been OGs in this game. Some of the most well-researched, well-cited, well-documented truth seekers, really in the prime of their game right now. So I can't speak into that enough. Just such solid, grounded human beings, really embodying what it means to be a warrior. They both have gone by the truth warrior moniker. A warrior isn't just someone who's like, yeah, yeah, let's fucking take these people out. The heart, the integrity, the spirit, the presence that both of them have. And even just to be there and listen and hear and connect. They didn't agree on certain things. And to listen to the person and to communicate consciously, man, that's what it's about. This is the things that we talk about that I know I've been talking about in terms of how do we communicate? How do we communicate responsibly and consciously and not let our triggers just influence how we come across? So I love that episode. I can't wait to do it again. I know we plan on doing some other round tables with different people. We'll see how that unfolds. And that was just amazing. And again, from my end, listening to both of them as someone who has kind of explored that issue, maybe not super, super deeply, but explored it enough where it's like, man, I could hear what you're saying there. Actually, I could hear what you're saying there. It's very fascinating. [Speaker 3] (2:01:55 - 2:02:39) It is. It is very fascinating, man. And yeah, bro, it's psychological maturity, it's psychological wholeness, but especially centered around conversations in service of truth and moving us towards more clarity. We need that and looking forward to having more of them. So everyone, once again, thank you for listening. If you want to step one step deeper and join this conversation, connect with us inside our community, Friends of the Truth. We're active. We're communicating with our members. We're doing multiple calls a month, getting deep with our people and really just trying to keep everyone censored, aligned, connected to people of value, because I think that's really, really important at this point in time. You can learn more at friendsofthetruth.co or by hitting the link in the show notes. [Speaker 1] (2:02:39 - 2:02:45) Thanks for your support. Please share this episode. Please rate, review, follow, subscribe, comment wherever you can. Peace.