Sarah DeHaven The Psy-Op of Mediocrity

[Speaker 1] (0:00 - 1:32) Welcome back to Here For The Truth Podcast. I'm Joel Rafiti, my co-host Erasmus, with me as always. Today, we have the return of the amazing Sarah DeHaven, who joined us twice previously. Always love our conversations with Sarah. Incredibly real, incredibly powerful. And yeah, things come up that always resonate deeply as The Truth, for sure. For those that don't know, we have a The Truth. To me, this is the single best community out there. I consider it to be the ultimate support network. People are so real, so vulnerable, so open, and also so willing to learn on a number of different topics. We have six to seven calls per month now, an amazing private telegram group subdivided into German medicine, conspiracy, nervous system, and so, so much more. I think there's 20 plus topics now, which people are heavily engaged in and really iron sharpens iron. So if you're down to not only one, support this podcast, and two, get education, get community, get cutting-edge knowledge, then the Friends of The Truth is definitely the place to do that. Sarah DeHaven actually is a key contributor inside of our community, in our human design and astrology channel. She does a monthly astrology archetype call as well, which is very powerful too. So friendsofthetruth.co, or hit the link in the show notes to learn more and to become a member. I hope you guys enjoy this episode. [Speaker 3] (1:34 - 1:40) You are now listening to the Year for the Truth podcast, hosted by Joel Graffiti and Yerasimos. [Speaker 1] (1:43 - 2:14) Sarah DeHaven is an existential oracular guide to those willfully forging their own destiny. Along with innate and ancestral psychic gifts, she has honed an eclectic array of divination techniques to thoroughly comprehend the human psyche, to understand why it's lost its way and how to bring it back into accord with the self once and for all. This is her third time joining us. She previously joined us on episode 92, diving into evolutionary astrology, and again on episode 151. Sarah, welcome back to Year for the Truth. [Speaker 2] (2:15 - 2:16) Deuce. [Speaker 1] (2:16 - 2:20) What up? I always love our conversations with you. [Speaker 2] (2:21 - 2:24) Yeah, me too. I love them so much. We get into some really good stuff. [Speaker 1] (2:25 - 2:28) Yeah. So how you been? What's happening? What are you feeling? [Speaker 2] (2:29 - 3:22) Oh, wow. I mean, like with what's going on these days, just weather wise, as far as the collective is concerned, I'm feeling it. There's just tons of stuff coming up in my emotional body and my dreams, feeling it in my nervous system. All the stuff that feels like it's time for me to work through it because I'm ready at a consciousness level to actually contextualize what's coming up and why. So I'm feeling a lot, but I also feel like I'm making really good progress because I'm learning how more and more to trust my own pace and to really take things to the next level as far as tuning within and getting guidance from there. It's a never evolving process, right? So, I mean, I'm feeling good, but I'm also kind of buzzy in general. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (3:23 - 4:22) Yeah. I think that you make a good point about following your own pace. I mean, we live in this culture, especially with all the biohacking and all the other things that are out there, that's like, you know, you fix your problems and, you know, just have to do this one technique or put this one machine on your head and then you're going to regulate your nervous system. And it's just doesn't, you know, it's not as easy as that. You know, it's a much more subtle process and it's a process that requires more intention, awareness, and it happens over time. Yeah. As well as the ongoing conditioned idea of what success is and what success looks like, you know, especially now in like this digital entrepreneur creator world, you know, like everyone has these ideas, etc, etc, etc. And people can start really moving at an unnatural pace and, you know, even setting unnatural goals too soon on their journey for where they're at. And, you know, what does that do to an individual when they're constantly comparing themselves? You know, against, I guess, a journey that isn't theirs. [Speaker 2] (4:23 - 6:34) Yeah, it's huge, isn't it? I mean, I've been thinking about this a lot lately, because a lot of what has been coming up for me is a recognition of how I need to forgive myself for devaluing my own process as far as how I enter and engage in the world vocationally. And even as a person day to day, the more and more that I contemplate this, observe people, work with people, I'm learning just how out of touch people are with their own process of emerging into the world. Like you were saying, like on the practical level, there's all this, do this, biohack this way, do it, like basically being told by some authority who's self-professed or by the crowd, you know, given that crown, do it this way if you want to be successful. And for some, it might work, but for a great many, it explains why there's such deep discontent within them, because there's a part of them that's not being honored as far as like literally how they live life day to day, you know? And even how they engage in things like on a practical level from an entrepreneurial standpoint, even how they market, you know? There's all these ways that people are meant to find success and prosperity that we're told and kind of like inundated with. But then I think about nature and our nature, and I wonder, especially considering how colonized we could say the collective is, indoctrinated, that I just think of the diversity of the potential of natural ways to engage in this world that are being ignored and even suppressed. And, you know, I think that that is something that would be great if we see more of that changing. I mean, I see it, but I'd love to see more of that, more change there. [Speaker 1] (6:34 - 6:56) Yeah. Yeah, heard. So, I guess we wanted to get together to do this episode. And on the topic of the psyop of mediocrity, you know, and this is, I guess, one that really hits deep, you know, to the nature of our experience for sure. So, I guess as an intro, what would be your opening statement on this topic? [Speaker 2] (6:57 - 10:26) Oh boy. Well, like I was saying to you guys earlier, it's like mid is not normal. It's not fucking normal. It is a fact that every single being, and we'll stick to humans in this case, incarnates with a genius that is completely unique to them. I know this for a fact because this is my work. I study the human psyche from the esoteric point of view, but also from a psychological point of view using modalities like astrology, for instance. And I use evolutionary astrology as you both know. So, I'm looking at patterns generationally and in someone's current life. And you can see every single soul that incarnates here has a special gift that we can say is endowed by God or nature or whatever. Either way, it's their ticket to success in life, to happiness, to fulfillment, to health and well-being, to contribution. And so, to me, the psyop of mediocrity, it's obvious to me that we can't have that kind of vitality emanating through all beings because if that was the case, it'd be much harder to control them. So, if we can control their minds as early on as possible and generationally so that it's self perpetuating through the parents, through the community, through the educational system, etc., religion, then what we can do is brainwash them in their most vulnerable years and prevent their thriving. And then we can just medicate them when they start going haywire so that they can comply and be good little slaves. And when I say this, it's like, well, who are they, blah, blah, blah. But it's very obvious that there is a class system here on this planet among humans, and the vast majority of humans are in what I would consider a serf class of individuals. So, what comes with that is being controlled. And so, to me, we see this kind of like pseudo ideal of success, like we've just been talking about a bit earlier here, this pseudo ideal of success that we are told we must chase. And I think that's part of the reason why there is so much mediocrity because the pain of not fulfilling that standard is felt so deeply that it literally, I mean, it suppresses life force energy, it suppresses vitality. And vitality is synonymous with things like self-esteem, creative self-actualization. And if you can't access that vitality, then it's very hard to get the engine going to build momentum. So, to me, it's very simple why there's so much mediocrity. But now it's like, well, the people who are feeling that discontent and want it to end know that there's a way out. And it's actually as challenging as it can be. It's much more simpler than many would think. [Speaker 1] (10:27 - 10:40) Yeah. What is that? Yeah. Even just the notion of chasing. The moment that you adopt this idea that I'm chasing like already coming from this position of I'm not enough or I'm lacking or this, you know? [Speaker 2] (10:41 - 10:42) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (10:43 - 13:03) I think what's interesting is that you do astrology, I'm into human design, and I agree with you. I think individuals have this unique gift to give in this world. And yet, how many people know that? How many people understand the miracle of their existence, of their life, and this conditioning that goes on through, you know, the control mechanisms on this planet? You know, everything's there to dumb you down. Everything's there to disconnect you from these deeper parts of you. And not only that, like people are in this compare and contrast game. And so, if you are your own authority, if you know who you are in the deepest levels, I mean, that's got to be the starting point. Yeah, sure. Receive information, receive advice, perhaps, and inspiration from others. But like when you're projecting your innate power onto other people, I think that further fuels this like mediocrity because it's like, oh, I'm not that person. I can't do what they do. So, I'm, I don't know, I'm just going to kind of live my life and maybe, you know, maybe do some things or just kind of live, sit there like and putting these people on a pedestal. And as we've seen very often in life, so many of these people that are put on pedestals, you know, they aren't living, let's say, a holistically successful life. And, you know, the skeletons come out from the closet. And so, you know, I think the more people can bring, yes, look around you in your environment, take inspiration. But like you have to, you have to take the power back. Like you have to be the authority of your life. You have to make your decisions. You have to allow yourself to feel the pain of all this conditioning, of all the things that have kept you in this state of mediocrity. You know, say no to these, the self-medicating mechanisms that are keeping you or keeping that stuff, you know, down. We need to allow it to bubble up because as we've talked about often on this show and probably in previous episodes, you know, pain is a motivator for shifting your life and for changing. But if you're not feeling that, the reality of the situation for all the host of reasons that, you know, I mentioned that we've talked about before, like it's just you're on, you're this hamster on the hamster wheel. And how do you even get out of this cycle of mediocrity? [Speaker 2] (13:05 - 15:22) Yeah. I mean, for me, I've mentioned this in previous podcast interviews, perhaps with you or maybe with like Michael Tesorian or somebody, but like it took a psychotic break for me. Like my Saturn return was real because I was super off track, you know. I can't say that everyone's gonna like snap out of it. But I think there's a part inside of some of us who really sincerely want to manifest spirit into this plane, i.e. our true self, at least from my perspective, right? And so, there were times in my life where, I don't know if you guys ever watched the movie Get Out, but like there's this part where he talks about this sunken place and there's this scene where the hypnotist kind of induces him into this space where his vision is kind of like sinking, sinking back and all he sees is like a screen, like and he gets further and further away. I have literally experienced that, literally and came into consciousness of the distance at certain intervals in my life before I reached that Saturn return period where it was slowly starting to come together, how far away I was actually from myself. And it was fucking gnarly because it's like when you're that out of it, you're like, whoa, what is going on? But there's a sense of distance and I don't know what it's like for other people who are on that journey, but I do think that it's so valuable to know that if you really want to come online, as I like to consider it, you can will that into existence, you can. It just might be more challenging for others than, you know, for some than others. But I feel like part of that too comes from its generational trauma, its current life trauma, it fractures the psyche, right? It compartmentalizes our psyche to such a degree that it's very easy to lose touch with who we are and where we're going, what we even really want, you know? Yeah. [Speaker 1] (15:22 - 17:04) And it's very easy for certain aspects of ourselves to just take over the wheel, you know, like they take over the wheel and we're living our life from a very limited place and a dogmatic place. We don't realize the gifts that exist, you know, within us that let's say have been repressed or not developed because of the state of society, because of the environment we grew up in, because of the trauma we experienced. And so, it's like, it requires like a desire and a curiosity to go on this deep internal exploration and to move the gaze from the external world, not completely, because it is this kind of dance between the internal and external, but like to really move it inwards and to, you know, keep going and look for the things out there that are going to support you to understand yourself in a deeper way. Yeah. You know what the hurdle is I think for most people is that they feel as though that inner exploration is kind of a luxury because to them they're stuck in survival, you know? I mean, it is for a lot of people. Even if you go into, I don't know if I 100% agree with the order, but Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You know, I know if we've talked about this before, like there are so many people out there that like they're just trying to like put food on the table. They're just trying to like, you know, maintain in this world and inflation and this and that and the system. And it's, I get it. I'm not saying it's easy. Like it's tough. It's hard. I have compassion, you know? Yeah. Well, it also makes the conditions ripe to settle. [Speaker 2] (17:07 - 17:37) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then there's distractions as well, ideological distractions that have a person thinking, oh, this is the carrot I'll chase to get that fulfillment that I can sense inside of myself, but I may not understand the details of as far as what is actually required to fulfill that intense desire in me. Like just for instance, I mean, oh boy, do I really want to go there? [Speaker 1] (17:38 - 17:38) Yes. [Speaker 2] (17:38 - 17:52) Yeah. Okay. So some years ago, some friends of mine, just to use an example, some friends of mine were in the LGBTQ BIPOC paradigm. [Speaker 3] (17:53 - 17:53) World, yeah. [Speaker 2] (17:53 - 18:54) And there was a feminist rally happening in town. And it was the kind of feminists, that believe that women are women and men are men. And this upset some of the people in my friend group enough to set up a counter rally. And so my point with this is, there was so much effort into fighting for their ideology. We amassed in great number to create this counter protest. It was huge. It made the news and we took over part of the city and everything. And so I'm just like so much life force energy going into this to be seen and be heard for a distraction that was socially engineered to keep someone from going into the deeper layers of their consciousness to understand where the discontent is lying and what the real foundational reason behind that discontent is. It goes so much deeper than your sexuality and your skin color. [Speaker 1] (18:55 - 18:55) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (18:55 - 19:05) Right. And to this day, some of those people that I know are still quite unhappy, but still fighting a good fight. [Speaker 1] (19:06 - 19:35) Yeah. Well, we talk about social engineering and so much energy has been put towards people, putting their energy into training for the victim Olympics. And so, you know what I mean, where it's just like, let's create a counter rally. Let's create a counter to the counter to the counter rally of like, no, we're more oppressed or we're right and you're wrong. And it's just like, how it doesn't feel very empowering to me, or it doesn't look empowering to me from my point of view, but I'm curious your thoughts. [Speaker 2] (19:35 - 21:16) No, it's not very empowering. But one thing that I did notice that I observed in this was the feeling of connection with the group. It's like, oh, I feel like I'm with somebody that gets it. Right. So, I get where they're coming from, because I think that's what we all want to some extent is love and connection. But it's tough because especially with oppressed races, like black and indigenous people, for instance, and I'm not saying that white people aren't oppressed too, because we know about indentured servitude and all the other stuff. But as a culture and a society, we're the poster children, we'll say of the oppressed. Right. And so, when you're told that from the beginning, I mean, one of the first memories I have is my mom screaming at me, you're black and you'll never be anything else. And basically like this, and don't expect much from life because you're lower on the rung socially. So, this is passed on generationally to see yourself as having to fight harder to get something and that you're automatically being victimized because you come from a line ancestrally of victims. And so, when you're passing on this information to people, when they're really, really little, and then there's emotional issues that come with that, like in the whole communities, dealing with these unaddressed emotional issues, like fundamental self-esteem issues. Michael Tesorian talks about this a lot. It's like there's a psychophobia that develops, and then there's a fear of going within because it's really painful. The pain is so loud. [Speaker 1] (21:16 - 22:35) Well, and also too, obviously our program is called Rise Above the Herd, but if you're rising out of the crab bucket, most people don't do that because there's such loyalty to the group. There's loyalty to the group mind. And it's like, if I am to rise above, what does that mean? I'm disobeying the rules, the stated reality of this group and how we believe and how we act, whether it's a family, whether it's a friend group. And so, the amount of psychic energy that it takes to go against the crowd, to go against the family, to go against your friend group, to rise out of, in a sense, mediocrity. I mean, mediocrity is a very broad word. And so, we can break it up in all the different ways mediocrity shows up. But that's a big piece. It's like this subconscious, for many people, loyalty to the family system. Oh, no, I can't make more money than my dad did, or I can't rise above my friend group or speak out on things that are different because I may end up alone. And that's the uncertainty, and it's painful. And I don't want to do that. I want to feel safe. And you said earlier about people seek love and connection, but a lot of people seek love and connection in the group as a compensation for lack of love and connection that they have just within themselves internally. [Speaker 2] (22:36 - 24:40) Oh, 100%. 100%. I know I'm using myself as an example a lot, but this is really so foundational to my work because of what I've dealt with in my life. I am one of those people that really doesn't know what it's like to feel safe in any kind of family dynamic. I didn't ever feel safe to be who I was. And so, I was always trying to be whoever I needed to be so that people would approve. And that stretched out into my community, to my friends, my classmates, and all this stuff. Just shift. Just be who it is you need to get love. And for me, luckily, because of that situation where I kind of went feral, we'll say, I had a psychotic break when I was like 32. I came to realize, oh my God, I'm never going to get it from outside. I was lucky. It was a very, very difficult time in my life, but I was really lucky to have that experience because it snapped me the fuck out of it. And it was like, oh, okay. I mean, it wasn't perfect. I'm still on a journey of really being all out there to be myself. But it was such a catalyst moment that I don't know how it would work for all people because I think everyone's going on a very different path with this. So, I don't know where the initiation would necessarily come for each person. But I want to say that I think it's so great that more and more voices are coming out to show the real diversity and also to show real love for themselves. For instance, what you guys do with Rise Above the Herd, like what you're teaching people through your own example as well is like this dedication to something that goes so far beyond the superficial to get down into the layers of what is really real. And that's the only place that I feel like peace is going to come from, inner peace. [Speaker 1] (24:41 - 27:19) Yeah. And again, like you think about how a person chooses to live. There's a philosophy that a person chooses to live by that plays into this whole mediocrity. So, where are you educated? How have you been conditioned? What's going on in the school system? What's going on in the mainstream media? What's going on in Hollywood? And so, you really have to have a vigilant mind in regards to how you relate to all this stuff coming at you. And output, I know, Joel, you talk about this a lot, output is related to the input. And so, what are you inputting? What has been input in you? And are you even curious and questioning that whole process? Like why I believe what I believe? Why I say the things that I say? And are the things that I'm believing and saying and doing leading me to the life that likely a part of me wants? Or is it not? And if it's not, then you have to really kind of rewind and go what has been the input? And do I need to ship that input and put other stuff in there that's going to be more empowering, that's going be more motivating, more inspiring, that's going to allow me to come back to myself more? That's going to allow me to embrace my individuality more? So, yeah, I think there's foundational principles and things that Joel and I, you know, share and teach and rise above the herd and, you know, that we talk about in this podcast that are important in terms of being on this heroic path, walking the authentic path, and how you dance with that knowledge and those philosophies is completely unique to you. And this is where we talk about astrology, we talk about human design. These systems out there that highlight our uniqueness and how all this stuff relates to us and how we go about our life and how everything unfolds. Like, it is an individual journey. Yes, it's within collectives as well, but ultimately, this hero's journey, this heroic path, this reclaiming of oneself, this rising out of mediocrity, like, it's yours. Like, that's it. No one's coming to fucking save you. We say that all the time. What are you going to do with that? Yeah. You know, just a thought crossed my mind is that waking up to the realization of the conditioning and all the insidious inputs and the burden of, you know, everything that's been laid on top of us can actually, like, inspire even more mediocrity. You know, just to realize when like in like in sometimes people, you know, they're in blissful ignorance, you know, but without the realization that I've been leading a mediocre life and they wake up to the realization of, you know, how programmed and how conditioned I've been and just the weight of that can be like, holy fuck, you know, like, even like give rise to even greater helplessness. [Speaker 2] (27:21 - 27:45) Yeah, because it's so momentous when you realize the gravity of the situation, you know, and especially if you were living a paradigm where it was like, you know, that ignorant bliss, even if it's not bliss and you're like depressed or anxious or whatever the fuck, it's just I'm living life, I'm on this track, you know, when Seinfeld coming on, I'm going to catch friends after or whatever the hell, you know what I mean? [Speaker 1] (27:46 - 27:49) Like, it's just like the Lego movie, like everything is awesome, you know? [Speaker 2] (27:49 - 27:53) Yeah, exactly. And then it's like, oh, God, they eat babies. Okay. [Speaker 1] (27:54 - 28:46) Yeah. No, and I love it. I mean, I don't love it, but you know what I mean? And then people reflexively double down and they go back into like, la la la, earmuffs, like, I don't want to know what's going on, you know? So, again, there's a choice point. There's an individual can go, wow, I have this newfound awareness, what am I doing with it? What do I want? How am I going to move forward? Do I continue on this hero's journey? Or do I go back to sleep? You see so many slip into that kind of moral towards the psychosis kind of spectrum of things coming into this realization as well. And they dedicate themselves to like fighting it and to exposing it constantly, rigorously, day in, day out, and not really shifting their energy towards the exploration and reclamation of soul food. Yeah, that's a whole another piece to it. That's like the opposite too. I get it, you know? [Speaker 2] (28:47 - 29:38) You know, this actually gets me thinking about, like you mentioned, human design and astrology. These are actually great keys that could be very helpful because not only do they show the prison, the prison that you trap yourself in, in your own mind, it also shows you the key and the means to get out. It's a multidimensional map, these tools. So they can show you how you're kind of avoiding reality and what the fallout of that is. And then it can also show you the expression of those energies at the highest level that you are here to exemplify, you know? But yeah, it can be really easy to project onto the outer world. Okay, we're going to fight the villain now and not deal with the villain inside, which is our own self-hatred. [Speaker 1] (29:39 - 29:50) It's so often such an overcompensation from looking deeper within and dealing with your shit and feeling the feelings and looking at the darkness that exists in you because it's easy to point it out externally. [Speaker 2] (29:51 - 29:52) Oh yeah. [Speaker 1] (29:53 - 29:59) Yeah, I mean, you become so desperate to be heard by an external force because you're not hearing yourself, you know? [Speaker 2] (30:00 - 30:02) And again... Oh, sorry, go ahead. [Speaker 1] (30:02 - 30:03) No, you go. You go. [Speaker 2] (30:03 - 31:17) Okay. No, it's so easy to do that. There's this woman, I can't remember her name, but on Instagram, her handle is Raising Yourself. And she talks about healthy relationships as a parent to your child, right? But by raising ourselves first. And she talks about how we get triggered by hearing... Not everybody, but a lot of people can get really upset hearing babies cry and small children being upset. And she says, and I think there's something to this, that it links to us getting triggered from when we weren't being heard, when we were being invalidated, when we were so vulnerable that we couldn't defend ourselves. And so we project it because it's so fragmented, right? At that early age that we just automatically project out into the world and don't realize that there's something in there that needs to be heard and really held and to have the patience to be with that. Because, I mean, with a baby, if a baby's crying, you're not going to say, okay, I got 10 minutes, right? Better fucking stop crying because we got shit, eight minutes, right? It doesn't work like that. We take the time we be with the emotion. And so, I mean, like with the baby, but we do that for ourselves too. That, at least to me, has helped tremendously. [Speaker 1] (31:17 - 32:22) I 100% think that's true. And it's extremely noticeable that everyone has an instant anxious reaction the moment a baby starts crying. It's like, oh, something needs to be solved. You know, like there's a problem kind of thing. And, you know, I just think back to, you know, so many individuals who were raised to like, even as infants, as babies, like to cry it out. You know, no one's coming, no one's hearing you, no one's seeing you. The way to solve this is to cry it out until you realize that. Yeah. And even, you know, beyond just like hearing babies cry, we see it within interpersonal relationships. You know, if a person hasn't connected to their, let's say, inner child or something more vulnerable within them, and then another person's like being vulnerable or crying, it's like this person's like, okay, here's a tissue. Okay, it's okay. Everything will be okay. Yeah, don't worry about it. It's fine. It's like that person, you know, right away does not have a conscious relationship to those parts of them. Yeah. But that's basically the adult, that's the adult version of he's a dummy. [Speaker 2] (32:23 - 32:25) Yeah. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (32:27 - 33:11) Yeah. Just there's always a reason. Like when you look at human behavior, when you see things within ourselves and our reactions and our triggers, like they're not random. There are reasons for it. And either a person is curious to know why their behavior is the way it is and their relationships are the way they are, or, you know, they're not, or they're somewhere in the middle. And it's required. It's required if you want to heal from the bullshit that you experienced in a fucked up world, likely with parents that did whatever they could, you know, the best they could based on what they knew based on their traumas based on that. But like, if you want to live a vital life, a full life and inspired life, there is going to be work that needs to happen. [Speaker 2] (33:13 - 35:01) Can I jump in with that? I just got thinking of something. So I've mentioned this before, but with evolutionary astrology, they say that 70% of the population is consensus mode, which essentially means that just to make it real simple, regardless of how successful that they become conventionally, they're still basically children who need direction from some sort of a parental authority. Then like 20% are individuating. So they're doing what you're saying you're asking most as far as like taking the initiative to go inside, figure out like, what am I? What do I really want? Like what matters to me? And then of course, there's like remaining percentage who are kind of taking it even further and are moving into a spiritualized focus. And so it's interesting to me because a lot of people will jump right to the spiritualized, you'll notice that even in society too, where it's like trying to jump the line and it's like not going into the reconnection, the establishment of that connection of who am I? What matters to me? And yeah, so I mean, it's just interesting to consider that because regardless of the individuating and spiritualizing percentage, like just disregarding that, 70% is a large chunk of the population that need like some sort of a wise man or a chieftain or a parental figure to guide them. And then we see what the examples of that are in our conventional society and it makes sense why there's so much mediocrity because the parents don't want to see their kids thrive. [Speaker 1] (35:03 - 35:09) Yeah. P. Diddy is the person I look to for spiritual advice. You too? Yeah, yeah, yeah. [Speaker 2] (35:09 - 35:15) Oh my God. I got to show you my shrine to him later. You'll be like, it's super impressive. [Speaker 1] (35:15 - 36:01) Okay. This is what I'm curious about. I know we're talking about mediocrity and everything, but like even just from like astrological weather standpoint, all this stuff that's coming out, all these like false idols that are being exposed more and more and more and more. And I think it's just going to continue to happen. I don't know how it's going to unfold, but I think it's going to continue to happen. And I'm curious what that will do to the 70%. And will it do anything or is it just like they just go, oh, there's a, okay. And then let me just go on with my life. Joel, did you want to? Oh man, I just feel it deeply. Like no one can, nothing can be hidden. Again, anything being hidden is coming up to the fray. I think this has been happening for at least four or five years, but we see it continue to ramp up. It's like inauthenticity, incongruence, like it's not happening anymore. [Speaker 2] (36:02 - 36:02) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (36:03 - 36:42) When it's also interesting to see the people that come immediately to the defense of people that are, let's say exposed. Now I get it. I understand in terms of like, let's wait, like anything else. Like I don't think you need to join team A or team B, you know, and it's good to wait to like more information to come out. But it is interesting to see people who reflexively come to defend someone. And I'm curious where that kind of the mediocrity plays into that, where people project so much on a person and then something comes out about a person and it's like, well, no, like I can't, I can't like, I have to keep the person on the pedestal. Cause if not, what does that say about me? [Speaker 2] (36:43 - 36:46) Oh, I have some thoughts on that. If you don't mind. [Speaker 1] (36:46 - 36:46) Please do. [Speaker 2] (36:47 - 38:43) So two things, I'm going to try to keep track of this. First from an evolutionary astrology perspective, the sun connects to our creative self-actualization and it also connects to the father figure in many cases, or some sort of an example of our vitality and solar energy that we often will see and say, I want to be that person. They have a piece on a frequency level that with my inner solar energy. And so we can deify cause the sun also archetypically connects to deity. We can deify beings that radiate this solar energy and it can be very paradigm shattering when they fall from grace. And then the other piece that I've witnessed and also observed in others is when uncle so-and-so or papa so-and-so turns out to be a pedophile and the kid says, Hey, guess what? This guy is a child rapist, molester, whatever. What often happens is that the women especially will say, you didn't see anything that didn't happen. That didn't happen. And now I'm mad at you. You ruined our family. And the reason why this often happens is because when you think of the feminine and how it's been indoctrinated in such a way, disregarding feminism, I'm going to disregard that, but I'm just thinking of the feminine archetype. There's this fear of, oh no, the family unit, my security, essentially. My security is under threat. And whether they're conscious of that or not, the nervous system, the animal side kicks in and it goes into defend mode, defend my life. And if you think of leadership falling from grace, it could be possibly a derivative of this kind of paradigm playing out. [Speaker 1] (38:44 - 38:46) Yeah, no, it makes sense. [Speaker 2] (38:46 - 38:47) Something to think about. I don't know. [Speaker 1] (38:47 - 39:09) Well, just interesting, not to get into specifics, but it's just interesting to see in the public sphere when certain people that have been propped up on a pedestal, things come out about them. And of course, there's a whole process that needs to happen to investigate what exactly is true, what may not be true. But it's interesting to observe behavior. Yeah, and I mean- Within people. Oh, yeah. [Speaker 2] (39:09 - 39:11) Whether they're guilty or not. Sorry, Joel. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (39:11 - 40:05) No, you're good. I mean, what you said regarding the feminine makes complete sense to me. Even from the evolutionary psychology of relationships and that perspective, ultimately, women have evolved to get into relationships to have security. Whether that triggers you or not, underlying the that's what it is. So, perhaps that can even become prioritized and valued over whatever that individual man that's providing security has done or has breached or has displayed out in the world. There's self-preservation that comes into play too. And so, let's not go on a deeper exploration of truth because the vulnerability is so strong of if that's true, what does that mean? And for many people, it's like a heat blowing up of one's life. If it's true, what have I lost? Yeah. [Speaker 2] (40:05 - 40:17) What's under threat? And then the nervous system, the animal side gets way louder, right? And so, it's going to be harder to hear your conscience when that's going on. [Speaker 1] (40:17 - 41:01) If it's true, what does it say about me? What does it say about me that I decided to marry this person or give my power to this person or idolize this person? And again, the average person isn't diving deep into these introspective areas to understand themselves and the interpersonal relationship and these psychological dynamics with such nuance, in my opinion. Yeah. And the flip side of this is the collective that starts frothing at the mouth to vilify these full of idols and with the popcorn, like watching it like so like insidiously joyful at these people coming down, like to me, that's mediocre. [Speaker 2] (41:01 - 41:02) That's another side of it. [Speaker 1] (41:02 - 41:02) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (41:03 - 41:03) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (41:03 - 41:45) I get it. It's not like just like one side is better than the other side. We see these interesting dynamics at play. I mean, again, like cancel culture, like there's elements of cancel culture that I think are whack as fuck, you know? And at the same time, there's a reality to like a person that falls from grace, you know, but what is that process? How does it look? You know, like, is it warranted? Is it not warranted? You know, again, this is where discernment and nuance come into play. It's not just like you did a bad thing. You're canceled. You should lose your entire career. You know, no one should give you money ever again for anything. You're a horrible person. You should go to prison. Like, let's see what happens. [Speaker 2] (41:46 - 43:02) What's interesting about that is when somebody is really in a state of love, like self-love, and they're really, really radiating that, like feeling that inside of themselves, and this is who they are, they're not going to want to cannibalize, right? It's these lower vibrational emotions, and I am not, like, I just want to say all ranges of emotions are important, but there are some that are considered in the survival range, and when you're in those survival range emotions, it's less likely that you're going to be looking at reality from a perspective of plenty, you know? And so, there's this scarcity, lack mindset where it's almost like, well, like I said, it's cannibalistic in a sense, and this is also perfect fertilizer for things, for like an anti-fertilizer for mediocrity, right? I mean, it's like a self-perpetuating loop of necrophilous behavior anti-lice. [Speaker 1] (43:02 - 43:32) You know, what I find interesting, and these are just my observations, those that I think are frothing at the mouth to cancel someone and cancel everyone for every minor infraction, they've already canceled themselves, you know? It's at a foundational level, and to just feel good about themselves, to get some sort of power and control back that's they don't have within themselves or even connection, that they have to go out there and lay the hammer down. [Speaker 2] (43:33 - 43:37) Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a thing. It's a thing. I've definitely been there, you know? [Speaker 1] (43:37 - 43:38) Yeah, I hear you. [Speaker 2] (43:38 - 43:40) So, it's nice to rebel in that. [Speaker 1] (43:40 - 44:02) But the thing is, we all grapple with these aspects of us. It isn't like we get to a place, and now I'm not a person that's ever going to have these little aspects of myself bubble forward to cancel a person or to feel charged or triggered. It's just about building more space, more capacity, more awareness about this orchestra that exists within us. [Speaker 2] (44:02 - 44:07) You're absolutely stop pretending like you feel like the common man. We know that you've ascended. [Speaker 1] (44:08 - 44:09) Hilarious. [Speaker 2] (44:09 - 44:10) I'm sorry. [Speaker 1] (44:10 - 44:11) No, no, no. It's funny. [Speaker 2] (44:11 - 44:12) I tease, I tease. [Speaker 1] (44:13 - 45:11) Yeah, well, it's our running joke. For those of you who want to continue on our inside jokes, come into Friends of the Truth. But no, I mean, it's like, and I think this is the other thing with people that are in the public sphere in a certain way or have like bought into a certain projection field as being this brilliant, highly amazing human being, spiritual master, etc. is that like, they buy into it. They don't highlight also the fact that they're human and fallible on, I would say, like a regular basis. Like, I think it's important to cut the projection field and to be like, hey, I'm not perfect. I think I, you know, have gained a certain level of knowledge and awareness and I love supporting people. And, you know, like, I have things that I grapple with. I have things that like, you know, are hard for me. And I just think enough, not enough people do that, that achieve a certain level of fame in the public eye. It's like they have to keep the persona there. Because what if? [Speaker 2] (45:12 - 46:05) Mm-hmm. This is literally what I love the most about my work, is being able to help people feel seen and safe to be themselves. Because you're absolutely right, you're absolutely right. This is actually the key out of mediocrity, is to accept yourself. You don't have to be perfect at all. And it's more about just being real. If you can be real with yourself and accept that, who gives a fuck what anybody else thinks? You get to that stage. I know that's like my ultimate life goal. I've made great strides to that end. But, you know, to me, it's like, I feel that our natural state is a state of full self-acceptance. And so, we're rehabilitating that in many cases, and it's okay to be in that space evolutionarily. That's okay. Even just knowing that that's okay is huge to reaching your full potential. [Speaker 1] (46:05 - 46:55) Yeah. This speaks so loudly to Gene Key 8, which is connected to Taurus. Actually, it's a big part of my own personal makeup. It's my evolution. And Gene Key 8 goes from mediocrity to exquisiteness via the path of style. And what Richard Rudd says on Gene Key 8 is, we need not fear mediocrity as long as our heart is open and singing. We no longer need to react to it and find ourselves at odds with the status quo. True style is found in the marketplace, living as an example of a true rebellious human being, unchained by external definitions and unfettered by conditioning, ancestral or cultural. So, I think you've hit the nail on the head that the solution to mediocrity is really stepping and standing into your own uniqueness and your own style. [Speaker 2] (46:57 - 47:49) Yeah. No matter what that is. I mean, that's the thing. It's like, is it okay to experiment? Are you okay with being in that stage of maybe even awkwardness as you figure out how your body works or how your voice works? Or just even how you best communicate and interact and relate with others, how you best even go about your daily life routine. What does that look like for you? A lot of that is a path of discovery for us because we've not been taught how to connect to that very early on in life as a blanket statement for the whole species. So, that's okay because this is huge for not just your own life, but for the entire species as far as impact goes because what you're doing is such a contribution and such a necessary one by just being okay with experimentation. [Speaker 1] (47:50 - 48:10) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to read one more thing he says in this matter, which really supports that. He says, the inner tendency to compromise yourself for the sake of another or for the sake of power, money, or recognition is the greatest challenge of your life. There is nothing more important in life than your freedom of self-expression. And if you've given even a tiny part of that away, you've given it all away. [Speaker 2] (48:12 - 48:13) Facts. [Speaker 1] (48:14 - 50:07) Yeah, that's deep. Thanks, Richard. Yeah. Man, this just brings up so much stuff, you know, even just thinking about my own life, thinking about the people that we work with, thinking about people that come to rise above just, you know, like not expressing yourself, not going through these awkward processes because the fear of losing love, losing connection. Losing money and not surviving, like I think about the COVID era, like how many people had to toe their line and compromise their uniqueness and compromise their values in order to hold on to that, you know, what they thought was their survival. And like, it wasn't just COVID, it's constant. This, this, this, this challenge, we constantly compromise ourselves in order to maintain security, maintain survival, you know, maintain safety. And I get it, you know, I get it. It's fucking hard. Well, yeah, because again, it's like this dance of opposites of certainty and uncertainty. Like uncertainty triggers so much in people, so much, you know, fight or flight, so much vulnerability that like, well, let me at least be certain, you know, I have this job, I have this thing, you know, but I think, you know, on an entrepreneurial path or even with a personal development journey, like what's possible when you dance with uncertainty? What's possible when you dance with not knowing, you know, what's on the other side of that? And I think that's exciting. Yeah. And what's possible when you fully lean into your uniqueness and you trusted that, you know, and I don't like the word surrender, but, and you surrendered to the outcome of being like, this is who I am. This is what I do. This is what I like to do. I'm going to start navigating my life and shaping my reality as a mirror to who I actually am internally, who I actually am. [Speaker 2] (50:09 - 51:40) Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to take it even to a deeply spiritual perspective on it, and yet at the same time, I feel it's very grounded in nature. I don't think it could be any other way. When you said the difficulty in submitting, like to me or surrendering, I used the word submit, so that's why it was in my head. But to me from my studies, that's one of our biggest challenges is to trust in nature and in the divine order of this reality and really submit our will to the truth of our actual will, which we could say is, you know, God's will or the divine will or the universal will or whatever you want to call it, and trust that. But if you think about it, I mean, we've died a lot, humans, over time, and I think trust was lost. But I don't think that beneficent force has ever gone away, and I think it's always here. I mean, we could see it in the life force energy. To me, that's one of the keys to get out of the mediocrity even is to let go as much as you can, and it might be a gradual process, but let go of your resistance to being in submission to an actual, like we'll say, like the real authority. [Speaker 1] (51:41 - 51:42) Yeah, well, it's a divine will. [Speaker 2] (51:43 - 52:24) Yeah. Yeah. And the funny thing about that is, because it sounds scary, it's like, well, I lose myself. But the funny thing is, is at least on my journey on this, and I've had profound changes. I feel like lifetimes of changes in this lifespan of even just the last 10 years. The more you do it, the more yourself you are. You actually get rid of all the crap that's holding you down and obscuring your light. So, you know, I mean, it might sound woo-woo or airy-fairy, but it's actually very grounded in reality because you must accept the reality you're in at the same time in order to do successfully. I don't know if I'm making sense. [Speaker 1] (52:24 - 53:03) No, you are. You are. I'm just trying to think. Yeah, you are. I think you just made like a clear point. It was like, oh, what did I want to follow that up with or segue to? Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, and the more that we suppress this and the more that our actions and behaviors reflect the opposite of owning who we are and standing firm in our uniqueness, the more distance that gets created between ourselves and also our powers, including our intuitive faculties. How much more extrasensory tools do we have available to us than simply what we've been programmed to believe? And this is because of that huge chasm in self-trust. [Speaker 2] (53:04 - 54:17) Huge, huge, huge. I mean, these are natural faculties. I mean, just look at animals. They know when earthquakes are coming. They can sense nature's vicissitudes way more keenly than we can. And yet, we are endowed with consciousness, the ability to reason and question. And I feel as though it's not one or the other, it's both and. We have these abilities and we call them extrasensory, but the funny piece is that they're innate to us. I mean, how many kids do we know that can see and hear things that adults struggle to sense and perceive? I mean, I think we're just scratching the surface of discovering what we're even really capable as far as that's concerned, too. It's actually very exciting to me to know that. I mean, you grow up and you hear, oh, psychics are only these people. There's only these people that have these abilities to talk to ghosts or to sense other realms or energies and emotions. And it's like, when you learn that that's actually everybody, but in different nuanced ways of interacting with these senses, it's actually, to me, super fucking exciting because it opens up a whole new world of adventure and discovery. [Speaker 1] (54:18 - 54:49) Yeah. But do you think some people are just more inclined, though, to have certain abilities or skills than like, we're all going to be psychic and tell everyone what's going on in their life, you know? Yeah, but we all have different skills, like one person attributes. I think about the elements and I think a great example of this, for example, is the Avatar series, like the last airbender, firebenders, waterbenders, earthbenders. We all have our unique ways of being able to play with and manipulate the environment, so to speak. [Speaker 2] (54:50 - 55:37) Yeah. I've got a colleague in town who she's so fucking psychic, she can tell you what's going to happen tomorrow at five o'clock. And like, she's booked solid all the time, right? Because of her accuracy. I don't have that gift at all, right? I'm sure I could develop it, but it'd be super hard because it's not my wheelhouse. But where my wheelhouse is, is I can sense when somebody's in energetic integrity to their soul, you know? I can sense when somebody is online. And some of our gifts are different in that way. Some people, like you said, Joel, maybe they can sense certain weather patterns. It's like somebody who can dunk and somebody who can do three-pointers, or three-point shots or whatever you call it. Everyone has something to bring to the table. [Speaker 1] (55:38 - 58:36) Yeah. I could shoot lasers from my eyes and I know other people are unable to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, again, this is where, you know, we get a little bit of insight into this through these systems of self-knowledge and divination that are available to us, but astrology, human design, jinkies, you know, like I think about your Gate 12, bro. Like, you know, that gate of caution, like knowing when someone might be feeling a little bit off-put or whatever it might be, you know, like that's very obvious as a skill and a gift of yours, you know. And that's one of the most powerful, you know, moments in my personal journey was when I went through Michael's Mystery School and I learned the telescopic system. And I got that reflection of my own personal information, you know, through his system, you know. And I read that card, you know, which is my personal decanate. And I was like, holy shit. Like, this is what I've always known about myself. And also, even not just the gifts, but the shadowy sides. Like, these are my fucking tendencies. And it's like, there is a divine purpose. Like, I was born for a reason. Like, this isn't random. Yeah, this is what I was going to ask in that little pause earlier. I was curious to be like, well, okay, well, how does a person know themselves? How does a person rise out of mediocrity? And this is where I think these systems, you know, evolutionary astrology, human design, I mean, just insert, you know, there's a bunch. They've served me on my journey because they like on some level as an individual, I'd like to think if you're somewhat curious and you're paying attention and you would have some self-awareness, you kind of have an idea of your gifts and you kind of have an idea of like your tendencies and qualities and maybe some challenges. And then you have these systems out there that just like allow you to stake your flag in the ground even more because it resonates, because it lands. And then it's almost like this, I am, like Joel said, I was born for a purpose. These are my gifts. These are the things that I have to bring in the world. And oh, these are the areas that I may see some challenges and I can accept myself more because a lot of times people are floating, why me? Why is this happening to me? Why do I have these struggles? Why is this thing? And then, you know, there's like a, I like to think like a little bit of a softening of like, oh, okay. Not to mean you have to remain a victim and go, okay, well, my astrology says this, so I can't transcend this. And I just mean that it's just like there's something that it does where you can kind of sink back into yourself more and go, okay, there's some reasons for this. You know, I don't have to be in this completely combative relationship with myself. I can move through this more with a different understanding and have maybe a little bit of a game plan and ultimately just get a clear idea of like, this is my, these are my zones of genius and I'm going to fucking roll with it. [Speaker 2] (58:37 - 58:53) Yeah. Oh, as an example, I just want to say like, it could be very practical too. Some people have the ability to create such delicious meals that they make people feel their soul. Like, I'm just saying it doesn't have to be, oh, I'm a psychic, you know? [Speaker 1] (58:53 - 58:55) No, not at all. [Speaker 2] (58:55 - 59:13) It could be a psychic ability, in a sense, a psychic ability to know the exact flavor ratios and ingredients and the love to pour in your energy into like the perfect meal that somebody needs to feel loved. It can be something like that just coming to mind. [Speaker 1] (59:13 - 1:00:55) Yeah. And we're talking about mediocrity as this like kind of general thing, but it's up to individual to know like, am I living a mediocre life? You know, like, or am I, do I realize like, this is my gifts, these are my passions. You don't have to be some famous person on Instagram or someone that's on the big screen or a psychic or some super well-known coach. Like, you know, maybe you're uniquely you as the most amazing mother or father or like construction worker or, you know, and like your personality comes through and you're amazing at what you do and you've built this craft and you put energy into building something and creating something and tapping into something that is, you know, God given within you. Of course, man. Of course. It's the, you know, the demi hero. Very important. It's just, I think sometimes we can get caught up in this or people can get caught up in this like, like this hierarchy of non-mediocre people, but it's like, no, no, no, no. It's a state of being, it's a state of presence. It's a state of knowing yourself and how you move through the world, being yourself as fully as you can be, doing things that are your gifts, that you value, that you're creating and bringing into the world. And like I said, with an amazing meal, like changing someone's life. Like in a sense, in that moment, like, oh my God, this is amazing. I'm going to remember this in 20 years from now. Oh my God, I went to this restaurant once and I had this meal, like shit, I do that. Like I have these moments in my life where it's like, I'm talking about this thing or this person or this meal or this experience and that person that played a role in giving, they have no idea that I'm doing that 20 years down the road. I mean, what a gift. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:00:55 - 1:01:26) Yeah. Yeah. I just want to say like, but I just want to point this out because it's so important for people who are listening. It's such a trap to think that you have to reach a certain social status or position based on like what the culture agrees to is successful. You have to feel that inside. You have to feel right with yourself. That is the way out of mediocrity. Do you feel right with yourself? Like I can't understate that, like understand that, I should say. [Speaker 1] (1:01:26 - 1:02:38) That's it. There are people with millions of Instagram followers, okay, that millions of people project that this person is non-mediocre or is incredible or whatever. And yet does that person feel that way about them truly, deeply within themselves? So it's like, yeah, your level of success in life isn't based on how many TikTok followers you have. Now, I'm not saying that's not a bad thing for some people. That's how they're growing their business. That's how they're putting their stuff in the world. But again, success is much more multifactorial. It's much more holistic. It's not just in the simple terms of Instagram followers, money in the bank. And we're not all here to play out the same roles. That is some people's path is to have that massive fame, have that massive status and grapple with that and have their own challenges to be transmuted through that process. Not everyone's here to be leaders. Sorry, not everyone's a leader. Maybe in your own microcosmic way, but there's different roles that are needed throughout a society, throughout a culture. And it's like, I'm just looking at your show and I'd see people like, whose dharma are you living? Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a really good point. [Speaker 2] (1:02:40 - 1:02:43) Yeah. Yeah. It's like Krishna or somebody. I can't remember who said it. [Speaker 1] (1:02:44 - 1:04:15) Yeah. And we all have the challenges that we're going to have to face and that we're going to have to overcome. If we look inwards, we go, oh man, that's a challenge of mine. No one gets out of it without having to look inwards and go, okay, this is an aspect of me that maybe I don't want everyone to know about me. And I have to navigate this and how do I deal with it within the context of partnership, within the context of me being famous in the public sphere, within me being a politician, a celebrity, a parent, whatever. This is what it means to be human. And you're either being super real with yourself and you're at this place of self-acceptance where you know yourself or it's like, no, no, no, I don't want to deal with that shit. And then what happens usually? It rears its ugly head in some really twisted ways and then you're really going to have to deal with it. Yeah. And to me, defining mediocrity, like the words incongruence and inauthenticity really come to the forefront for me. And when it comes to rising out of mediocrity and not being mediocre, if you're incongruence, if you're inintegrity, if your actions, words, behaviors, deeds are rematched, then you're in power. And to me, that's not mediocre regardless of the materialistic aspects of what's happening in your life. Yeah. I love Walter Russell's definition. Mediocrity is self-inflicted and genius is self-bestowed. It has a lot to do with what we're talking about here. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:04:16 - 1:06:53) Yeah. Huge, huge, huge, huge. Yeah. The Dharma piece is really important. There's certain intervals astrologically that we can see during life where we hit a real milestone to check and see how we're doing, I guess, how we're progressing. And the big ones are 14 years old, which is the first Saturn opposition. That's usually when we start rebelling against what doesn't seem to be working for us. Then there's around 21, 22, which is a, I think it's a Saturn square around that time. Yeah, a closing square. And I think it's the first year in a square. In any case, it's a pivotal time that usually gets co-opted because we're like, okay, we're going to be our own person, but we also want to figure out where we fit in the world. And society tends to try to funnel people into a direction that doesn't always work for them. It's actually a really key time is around the 21, 22 mark. Are you on the right track? Are you choosing the right vocation, apprenticeship, whatever it happens to be? And then 29, 30 is the Saturn return around there. And that shows, are you an integrity to who you are? And for some people, it's going to go pretty well. Joel has met much success in his Saturn return. I went feral, big difference. Reason being I was off track, Joel's on track. But my point is, that's a milestone to be aware of too that you can build towards if you're younger than that, or if you're around that age, or if you're past it, you can contemplate it. Am I being who I am? And I just want to add another one. The midlife crisis we often hear about around 40 to 45 around there. That's a huge one. That's the Uranus opposition. And Uranus is very much about individuation. So that opposition is almost we're looking at ourselves. When I look in the mirror, do I like what I see? Is it really me? That's the question that starts coming up. And so there's a lot of rebellion during that time, but to get the most out of it, to make sure it's not a mediocre, I'm going to go buy a Ferrari and get a hot young chick trope or whatever. It's more like, where do I feel unfulfilled? Where do I feel out of integrity? How do I deal with, in a sense, in a very kind way too, bringing myself forward right now? Because we're at the halfway point of our life around then. It's probably a good idea. [Speaker 1] (1:06:54 - 1:07:16) I have a family member who around that age, incredibly passive, sweet, funny, generous, gentle guy. I became like a Blackie gang leader. Went from zero tattoos to full bodies, entire body tattoos to become a massive Harley Davis enthusiast. And then yeah, it was insane. [Speaker 2] (1:07:19 - 1:07:25) Do you feel like he was at that point of trying to find himself and bring that through? [Speaker 1] (1:07:25 - 1:07:31) Yeah, definitely. It was in that Uranus opposition period. Yeah, for sure. I'm in it right now. [Speaker 2] (1:07:32 - 1:07:55) Sorry, Erasmus. Can I just mention one more milestone just for the listeners? It's around 51 too, is the Chiron return around 50, 51. And that one is very important to be mindful too, because we start facing our mortality around that time very, very keenly. And it's like, okay, so what am I going to do with the time I have left? It's just another milestone and I'm done. I just wanted to mention that. [Speaker 1] (1:07:55 - 1:08:08) Yeah. I usually just follow by Louis C.K.'s definition is that at 40, he's half dead. Am I canceled for bringing up his name? [Speaker 2] (1:08:08 - 1:08:10) Oh my God. So offended. [Speaker 1] (1:08:11 - 1:09:12) Just powerful demarcations to assess where we're at. It's like pit stops kind of thing. And even too, as we look around in the world, we look around, especially people in the public sphere, certain things come out and we're like, oh, interesting. That's during this period. And that's during that. And I look at my own life. At 28, I fucking left my New York City job and I took all my savings and I backpacked around the world at 28. And right now I'm in the Uranus period. So that always makes me laugh. I want to say Uranus, but then I just try to go like Uranus or Uranus. You're in the Uranus period, huh? Yeah, I'm in my... That's strange. I'm in my Anus period. But yeah, it's interesting for me to think about that. What are the other questions that come up during this Uranus period? Like a person's going to navigate or... It's a dark and hairy time. [Speaker 2] (1:09:14 - 1:09:24) Very dark. Yeah. Yeah. It's a place we don't necessarily want to be, but we found ourselves there. Okay. I'm going to stop and actually answer your question. [Speaker 3] (1:09:24 - 1:09:26) So childish. [Speaker 1] (1:09:27 - 1:09:30) But again, we talk about integration. [Speaker 3] (1:09:30 - 1:09:32) I'm joking. No, I know you're joking. [Speaker 1] (1:09:32 - 1:10:00) I know you're joking, but I'm doing this for the audience because a lot of people, they may have judgments or they may have shame around this or you talk about accepting yourself and being an individual. There are many facets to us. The ability in the moment to be spontaneous, to say the thing that lands or is funny or to be humorous or maybe to act like a 14-year-old little fucking teenager, you know, with a little ha ha ha, like, you know, there's moments of it. Now, if you were that way all the time in every situation, okay, that would be a problem. [Speaker 2] (1:10:00 - 1:10:01) Sure. [Speaker 1] (1:10:01 - 1:11:12) You know? So, like, I think part of this accepting yourself is to go, wow, you are such a like full and nuanced person with so many qualities within you, many repressed, you know, many undeveloped, but potential is there to recover, to develop. And how does that serve your life? How does that serve your relationships, your work, your career, whatever? And I mean, for me personally, I love that aspect of this journey. You know, it's why I even got into acting that, you know, do I really want to be an actor? It may be a part of me, but I loved the dance with myself, the learning about myself to be like, oh, hey, wow, this was my life, this is how my personality developed growing up, you know, through my family system, etc. Astrological influences, whatever, all that stuff. And yet, what else is there? You know, how can I integrate these lost parts of me and how would they serve me in my relationships, in my life, etc. So, yeah, we're making jokes here and yet like, you know, it's I love it. [Speaker 2] (1:11:13 - 1:14:02) Yeah. I appreciate that actually. I mean, this is part of it too, who says that you have to be at a certain age, you know, not allowed to laugh anymore. I feel like that's super important. And that's even part of going through these whole processes or being able to laugh, to bring levity to the situation. And with the Uranus Opposition, that whole time around, it could be anywhere from 38 to about like mid 40s or so, it depends. But as a generality, it's a time where it's so useful to just start noticing where you're feeling confined, where you're feeling repressed, where you're feeling or maybe even noticing parts of yourself that are coming up that you might feel are threatening to your status quo, but yet are integral to who it is you are and don't seem to want to go away, no matter how much you might say move. It's like you can make the most out of it by seeing it as a time of discovery of parts of yourself that may have had to been put in the back burner or in the back of the filing cabinet and are now wanting to come through so that you can live a more fulfilling and integrated life. So it can be very uncomfortable. I know one guy I heard about who he was a very masculine man, very gym-going man. And then one day, he decided, I really like wearing women's clothing and it kind of ruined his life. And the reason why was because he set up this persona for so long and it was covering up a part of himself, a feminine part of himself that he was ignoring. And so, it didn't really fully ruin his life. It can get really harrowing during the Uranus opposition because stuff starts kind of... It's very much like lightning and random, so certain expressions might be awkward and uncomfortable and uncontrollable. And for him, it was tough as he was trying to get a rain on it because he was so controlled up until that point. I'm sure he's doing fine now as the aftershocks started to settle a little bit, but I find that you can mitigate those things with Uranian energy the more that you accept what's bubbling up from the unconscious because it's part of your individuated self and be patient with that and even curious. And one last thing I want to mention is what's happening in the outer world, don't be too focused on that from a fatalistic or fearful point of view because your world might get turned upside down, your relationships might get turned upside down. Random shocking events can happen, but if you see how they correlate to what's going on inside, you can navigate that so much more successfully, the as within, so without. [Speaker 1] (1:14:03 - 1:14:07) Yeah. Sounds like it stinks. Well said. [Speaker 2] (1:14:07 - 1:14:10) Yeah, definitely. It can. [Speaker 1] (1:14:10 - 1:15:00) Oh my goodness. What's interesting in Tesserian's telescopic system in his book, Cars and Houses, so he says the zodiac with its 12 signs come into being because of an astronomical phenomenon known as the procession of the equinox, right? So basically, this movement is an illusion created by the wobble of the earth's axis and the sun's apparent movement backwards or eastward along the ecliptical belt. And because of this slow wobble, astrology is possible. So he says, if you were to observe the eastern horizon every day for 72 years, you'd notice that the sun doesn't rise in the same place each day because of the earth's slow wobbling motion. And what he says is that this average age of a man, 72, corresponds with that one degree of the zodiacal sign. [Speaker 2] (1:15:02 - 1:15:03) Interesting. [Speaker 1] (1:15:03 - 1:15:37) How does that work for someone who lives to be like 100? The average age of a man. But again, it's an interesting correlation for us to see that as within, so without, the as above, so below that. We're here to move through these different phases, move through these different circles, cross through these different demarcations. And then the journey is what it will be, which we don't know, obviously. But to me, it continues and there's lessons to be learned. And it's very obvious to me, earth school is a reality. That's why we're here. [Speaker 2] (1:15:39 - 1:16:45) Yeah. And the thing is, is that no moment in time is going to be an exact repeat of any other moment that proceeded or that will come. And so, I think this is part of why it's so beneficial for us to tap into all of our sensory faculties, because then we can navigate what's unfolding in a very personal way, but it's also co-creative and establishing a rapport with the outer reality as we're deepening our connection to our inner reality. This is part of flourishing and creatively self-actualizing in this life is that discovery and also that willingness to see, to really see, not to go into a fantasy realm. I mean, that's fine at times to use our imagination for that. I don't want to discount that or denigrate it. Though, I guess it's just, I mean, to me, I see everything as a constant unfolding of something new, something new, something new, and yet something's always remaining the same at the same time. [Speaker 1] (1:16:46 - 1:16:48) What grade would you guys give yourselves on earth school so far? [Speaker 2] (1:16:51 - 1:16:54) A grade? I don't know. What would you give your us most? I'm curious. [Speaker 1] (1:16:55 - 1:19:16) You know, I think like, I don't know, maybe like a B, B minus maybe, B plus at times. You know, I think there's some things that have gone well and I like who I am, but you know- But how do you even grade? I mean, I was being kind of silly when I asked- I know, I know, but I'm taking the hypothetical and taking it to the next level. Well, I mean, at this point, at this point- What is this being assessed? Is what's being assessed like the current state of your life and the different arenas and the cups that exist, or are you being assessed based on how you handled these demarcations and these transitions and how you went through? Yeah, I think it's all of it. I think because we're just giving one grade as opposed to like, you know, if you go to school, you have geometry, you have biology, you have all these different things and you get different grades in all of them. So, I would say thinking about all of it, however you want to, you know, delineate your life and the different aspects of it and just intuitively, like intuitively, like a little holistic grade of, you know, like up to this point, you know, how you've navigated these demarcations, where you're at in your current life, like where it's led you, how your inter- like your relationships are, where your life is, you know. You know, I wouldn't give myself an A, no way, but like, I mean, I also wouldn't say C, C is considered average and I'm- It's mediocre, it's mediocre. I'm not average. It's mediocre. Yeah, so, I would say like, I would say B+, maybe, you know, I don't know. Because it also- it's also because I'm like, oh, there's so much room for growth and like, you know, and for me, like physical health is- health in general is a major umbrella in my life, but one spoke of that is physical health that I've just- I'm just not- I'm not where I want to be, you know, I've taken things for granted because I was an athlete and I like felt like I looked good in a pair of jeans and a t-shirt and I'm like, okay, cool, but you know, I'm 44 now, I'm- I'm- I'm feeling things in a different way, like, there's a little bit of a complacency and a stagnancy with this one particular area that I think is important that I want to work more towards because I feel in this area, I feel a little, you know, would I give myself a C? I feel a little mediocre currently and- and- and so, yeah, I'm not going to be like, oh, I'm an A+, like, fuck no, you know. So, like, I- I think B, B+, if I'm being- being honest, I don't know, but you guys can, you know, say, hey, actually you're awesome because I think you're an F. [Speaker 2] (1:19:17 - 1:19:18) Oh, no way. [Speaker 1] (1:19:19 - 1:19:33) What was that Russell quote? Mediocrity is self-inflicted, genius is self-bestowed. Well, yeah, exactly and so, like, a lot of this stuff is, you know, in these areas where I feel like I'm not, like, up to par where I want to be, it's self-inflicted. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:19:35 - 1:20:07) I am- I don't know if I could give myself a grade because, like, when I, you know, even if you say this, like, my heart just started, like, radiating, like, this whole, like, reassurance thing. I think that where we're at, as long as we're sincere, that's what matters most, you know, like, I can't grade myself. I actually feel like I'm going to cry, like, just thinking about this, like, I think it's so important for us to know that our sincerity is what matters and our effort is what counts. [Speaker 1] (1:20:07 - 1:20:13) Yeah, I feel that deeply. I think sincerity is the- is the barometer, for sure. [Speaker 2] (1:20:14 - 1:20:15) But I'd give myself an A plus. [Speaker 1] (1:20:19 - 1:20:21) I love it. Typical fucking Capricorn. [Speaker 2] (1:20:22 - 1:20:26) Capricorn Leo rising, like, oh my God, get over yourself. A plus. [Speaker 1] (1:20:27 - 1:22:07) I love it, I love it, you know. You could also grade yourself from, like, the false modesty part of you. You're like, hmm, meanwhile, there's, like, that part that's like, yeah, I'm a fucking badass motherfucker. A plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus. But anyways, it's just fun. It's fun to have a dialogue on this. I mean, yeah, it's hard for me to, like, judge myself harshly, just considering the journey and, like, the psychological territory that's been gained, you know, and, like, just the fucking- the contrast of the starkly remembering, like you mentioned, where I've been, how I once thought, how I once viewed myself, viewed the world, the state of my life, the things I agreed to, the boundaries I didn't set, etc. And what that manifested in my reality compared to where I am now, the relationships that I have, the quality of my friendships, the quality of the work, and how in alignment, you know, it is with who I am, etc. Like, there's a lot of reverence for who I was to who I am and where I am now. Like, there's a, yeah. Well, what's interesting, instead of grading, we can just say, like, what grade you're in. You know, that's more of, like, a, like, oh, maybe you feel like you're in high school or, like, oh, I'm in college or I'm in PhD land or I'm- This is interesting. Are we in our own grade? Is Earth in its own grade? And, like, a baby is coming up into, like, the next grade and then we continue to go, you know? Because, you know, it feels like there's, like, you know, we're becoming- this is a cycle of maturity, so to speak. [Speaker 2] (1:22:08 - 1:22:08) Mm-hmm. [Speaker 1] (1:22:08 - 1:22:09) I love this conversation. [Speaker 2] (1:22:09 - 1:22:26) I just love this because Stephen Forrest, he's an evolutionary astrologer as well. He was a contemporary of Jeff Wolf Green. Like, they partnered at a certain time. And he's still alive. And he actually said- someone sent this to me recently. He sees this as, like, a high school. [Speaker 1] (1:22:27 - 1:22:41) Yes. And we're sure to- Sarah, I had this same fucking insight two weeks ago. I'm like, this is high school and they're coming from primary school. The baby's coming through, like, primary school. Yeah. So, where do we go after this? Like, where's my dad at right now? College, bro. [Speaker 2] (1:22:41 - 1:22:42) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:22:42 - 1:22:46) Yeah. Yo, dad, what's up? How's it going over there? You getting fucked up? You drinking all night? [Speaker 2] (1:22:46 - 1:23:21) Yeah, that was crazy. Yeah, who knows what's next? But I do feel like this is a progression. This is a progression point. Elena Bensonov. I mentioned her often because she uses scalar wave technology to read things using the David Hawking scale of consciousness. And her read on Earth is 700, the beginning stages of illumination, the planet itself. She also says the hollow earth theory, by the way, is the most plausible one. But I'm just putting that out there. Any case, yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:23:22 - 1:23:24) Can we talk to you about that one day? It'd be very interesting. [Speaker 2] (1:23:25 - 1:23:25) What's that? [Speaker 1] (1:23:25 - 1:23:43) Hollow earth? Yeah, I don't know. We have to have a round table of someone that's into globe, someone that's into flat, someone that's into hollow earth, and someone that's into- I just want to explore hollow earth theory. Get someone's perspective on that. It's interesting. Sorry, Sarah, where were you going? [Speaker 2] (1:23:44 - 1:24:19) Oh, no. First off, I think the hollow earth theory is lit. It's super cool. Like, very interesting. I'm not attached to any one, but I'd love to hear if people talk about it. In any case, though, to me, 700 is out of 1,000 on the scale. It's an arbitrary scale of 0 to 1,000 being the highest level of consciousness humanity can attain. Of course, it can go higher than that. But 700 is the beginning stages of illumination, which to me kind of fits with high school, like archetypically. That was all I had to say. [Speaker 1] (1:24:19 - 1:24:38) Yeah, for sure. I even think about the giddiness and the awe and the wondrous of little kids and toddlers, and it's like the exploration. It's like a new world, new environment. It's like they're excited to come in and explore and be here. Even on that level, it kind of resonates with me. [Speaker 2] (1:24:40 - 1:24:57) Does that mean I've failed a lot? Because I'm super tired of- I'm like, can we do something new? I know that- Whatever. There's that whole diagnostic thing. I'm not on that boat. I just want to stay. Sometimes I'm kind of like, can I? There's somewhere else. [Speaker 1] (1:24:57 - 1:25:12) Life is harsh. Even think about in real high school, getting towards the end, year 11, year 12. There's this apathetic kind of abrasiveness that comes across. Are we done yet? [Speaker 2] (1:25:14 - 1:25:17) Yeah, I didn't make it to high school, you guys. [Speaker 1] (1:25:18 - 1:27:16) Real quickly, just to go back to the Hollow Earth thing. I was remembering we had a guest on who's been on Unslaved, Cary Boydson. Remember Cary Boydson? And he wrote his book, Descendants of Atlantis, which I read. And I loved the book. And a lot of the book, it's a fiction book. And he utilizes some of Michael's research, probably from his Aliens of Atlantis book. But in the book, I'm remembering that there's definitely the Hollow Earth piece to that within the book where certain people live. And was that born out of Michael's theory as well? You don't know? I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. But that just made me think of it. Very interesting. It's crazy. I mentioned Cary yesterday. Let's come back up again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's so much. Again, there's so much we don't know. And this is where I think it's so important to be able to sit with that, you know, and not need certainty and not have to live in it and not think that like, hey, I'm not going to be able to continue on my life unless I have, I'm holding on so tightly to certainty. And can I be okay with it? And I think that's part of the mediocrity thing too. The sayapa mediocrity is that like, can you be with the uncertainty and the not knowing? Whereas I feel like, you know, we're being conditioned through all these different institutions that we've talked about. Like, this is the way it is. This is the way it is. This is the way it is. This is what life is. This is how you need to be. Well, I mean, to me, dogmatic materialism is very mediocre inducing, you know? Black and white thinking is very mediocre, mediocrity inducing. It's like, if you're not being open to like the numinous and the spiritual and like the, you know, the right brain aspect in the imaginal world, of course, you're going to feel fucking mediocre. Like, where's the, you know, where's the lightness? Where's the openness? Where's the wonder? Where's the, you know, like, not connecting side of things? Like, that kills a person, in my opinion. [Speaker 2] (1:27:17 - 1:28:27) I mean, just look at kids. They love to do those things, to explore and to try things and just see what this is all about. As you mentioned, I mean, like when we incarnate, many of us are very, very full of promise and optimism and curiosity. And I don't think that ever goes away. I just think it gets weighed down. I do think for a lot of us, our natural state is, however we personally express that, it's going to look differently, of course. But it's curiosity and a sense of adventure on some level as well, you know? So, like, I just want to say, like, just as another example, it's like, even how you educate yourself, like what you learn. College might not be the right track for you. Um, like, it could go any direction. It's just, to me, like, that's what I like to focus in on with this, like, with my foundation of what I even wanted to talk about with this is just know that you get to call the shots. Like, you're the captain of your soul, you know? That's the truth. That really is. [Speaker 1] (1:28:28 - 1:28:44) Yeah. I just want to not to keep harping on this, but I looked over to my right and there was a ping pong ball, okay? And it says spin galactic and a ping pong ball is hollow, okay? So, I don't know. I don't know. It could be a sign. [Speaker 2] (1:28:44 - 1:28:52) Okay, you need to make like a 10-part YouTube documentary on that for me. Please disseminate all the facts. We need more. [Speaker 1] (1:28:54 - 1:29:45) I mean, how do you play ping pong with a heavy, like, dense ball or even a flat plane? I don't think you can. I think ping pong, table tennis has the answers to the universe. I'm just letting you know. It's been a fun chat. Definitely. Definitely. Like, I mean, these are my favorite kinds of conversations, you know? And like, having this exploration, you know, with our different perspectives, different experiences and none of us know all the answers, but think, you know, coming together in this way and exploring it this way. Like, to be honest, I was feeling like very, very, very heavy, you know, before this conversation. You know, I wasn't feeling my best, but, you know, just getting things tinkering in this way, like automatically brings new energy and a new openness and lightness, even within me physically. [Speaker 2] (1:29:46 - 1:30:07) Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there's always going to be another bus, another opportunity. That's the thing. Don't feel, no one feel like they've missed out on anything. There's always going to be multiple options, multiple options. Like, just be open to it. I think that's what, like, that's what starts it, right? [Speaker 1] (1:30:07 - 1:32:03) Yeah. And pay attention to the voice in you, you know, inner critic or whatever that's like, oh, it's too late. All the buses have left. No more are coming, you know? And be like, oh, where is this voice coming from? Where is this part of me coming from? But I get it. Like, it's never too late to take the next step in your life. It's never too late to know yourself on a deeper level. It's never too late to, you know, increase your grade in earth school. But like, somehow, in some way, regardless of how dark things have gotten in your life, regardless of how close to death, how much that survival instinct's been threatened energetically, monetarily, physically, whatever, like, you're still here. You're still alive. You know, somehow, for some reason, in some way, like, you know, things have facilitated and worked out in a way where you're listening to this conversation and, you know, you have a consciousness and you have a body and you have potential and you have dreams and you have passions. And that's pretty cool. Yeah. Well, for everyone listening, like, we'd love to hear your thoughts on this. You know, you can respond to our emails. You can comment on the website, on, I think, Spotify and all that. And also, like, you know, all three of us, we're in Friends of the Truth. It's our membership community. Sarah's active in there. She's cool as fuck. You know, come hang out with us. Come continue these conversations. Come explore the mysteries of life. You know, there's so many conversations that go on there. It's like one of my favorite things is our telegram community, whether we're talking about astrology, whether we're talking about dream new medicine, whether we're talking about the nervous system, whether we're talking about birth, motherhood, homeschooling, all these different conversations that people are passionate about. And I just love it. So, you know, if you feel a call and want to continue to go deeper and hang out with us and learn and grow and challenge yourself and dance with uncertainty, like, come join the fun. Yeah, for sure. Sarah, anything you'd like to leave the audience with? And also, you know, if they're called, how can they connect with you? [Speaker 2] (1:32:04 - 1:34:50) Oh, yeah. Okay. I don't know. I feel like I said so much. But if I were to summarize, since we're at the end, I would just really implore people to trust that, you know, if there is a part in them that does feel that discontent, that even if you feel that things are daunting or you feel weight, or even if you feel like who you are is too taboo to bring forward, like you literally don't feel safe to be that person, even being aware of that discord means that there's something in you that wants to come forward. And I think it's worth discovering and finding a way to bring that forward in a way that is truly kind and honoring the innate value that you have by simply existing. Like, you matter. And what you bring into matter, you get to choose that. And you get to choose the path to that. There's no rush, you know? And again, it's about sincerity and persistence and a willingness to know who you are so that you can really bring that forward with dignity and grace, really. That is what's so important to me. That's what I do in my work. I work with people who want to bring the true self forward. And one of the things that I very much enjoy about my work is being able to have these deep conversations where you can really show and explore and reveal who it is you truly are in a space where somebody gets you, somebody wants to see you. Like, I want to help you feel seen. That's so important to me because I want that for myself too, right? So, this is a huge priority in my work. This is part of our power. When we know that it's okay to be seen, we can shine. And then we have more vitality. We have access to seeing the more opportunities in our life and those kind of opportunities that bring us true fulfillment and happiness, like where we're actually on our destined path, our chosen destined path, not just a leaf in the wind, right? We're held down. So, yeah. Anyway, my website is adeptguidance.com. I'm also on Instagram at adept.guidance. You can just look up Sarah D. Haven, you'll probably find me. And of course, I'm in Friends of the Truth and I do monthly astrology calls to talk about the weather and the archetypes to help you learn and connect to yourself through those avenues. And yeah. So, if you want to work with me, go to my website and fill out a request form and we'll talk. [Speaker 1] (1:34:51 - 1:35:49) Amazing. Yeah. I just want to say in closing, just super grateful for you both. Just so much love and respect for what you guys have been through, where you're at, and just the way you see the world. And personally, it's an honor for me to be here. You talk about graduating and being in different classes, etc. It's an honor for me. It's like, I guess, being in this class and to have these conversations and to share viewpoints and philosophies and ideas that I think come from a really empowered place. And to me, every time I've come across deep, stark, shining truths in my life, the signpost has been that it's empowering. Ultimately, it empowers you. And that's really, really what I get from you both and from this conversation. So, thank you. Feelings mutual, bro. [Speaker 2] (1:35:50 - 1:35:50) Same. [Speaker 1] (1:35:51 - 1:35:56) Everyone else, thanks for listening. We'll see you next time. Take care.