John Hamer A Titanic Conspiracy

[Speaker 2] (0:00 - 1:56) What's up, everybody? Joel has allowed me to do the introduction. Again, my name is Yerasimos. I've been held hostage. He's in charge of the intros, but here I am. I have the honor of doing it. Of course, we have Joel Rafiti here. But we have a topic today that has been fascinating to me for a long time. We're bringing on John Hamer, who's in alternative research. He goes into very deeply the story of the Titanic, the truth about the Titanic. He brings up a lot of things that make you go, hmm, and question the official narrative. As with many things that happen in the world, it's easy to question the official narrative. But we explore, obviously, the one that's a little bit more popular, which is the people that were opposed to the Federal Reserve were on that and the main piece of it is the sister ship, the Olympic, that replaced the Titanic. But we go all into that into the episode. So, if you want to learn all about that, listen to the episode. But I really enjoyed it because this is a story that's just cemented into our consciousness. I would say even more so, I mean, maybe not to the degree because it's modern times, like 9-11, but the Titanic is that story that's been drilled into our minds in school, elementary school, as we grow up. And then, of course, you have the epic movie by James Cameron in 1997 with Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Winslet. And it's just another thing that just makes you think of this, wow, this crazy story and this is how it went down, but did it actually go down that way? And so, that's why we brought John on because I loved his research when I came across it and we wanted to dive into it and present it to our listeners. [Speaker 3] (1:56 - 3:02) Yeah. This is an amazingly fascinating topic. For me personally, I only ever understood this topic through the lens of the Federal Reserve conspiracy with one of the three main opponents being aboard the ship. I wasn't privy to the Olympic switch theory. So, you guys are going to absolutely love this episode. We like getting into these when we can. Just before we get John on, just want to highlight that for those listening, if you're down to connect on a deeper level, if you're fans of this podcast, if you're fans of what we do, we have opened a free community on school. So, you can head to school.com, S-K-O-O-L.com, forward slash key for the truth. And you can apply to join. You're just going to be asked some basic questions, then we'll approve your membership. And basically, we get a chance to communicate about these episodes. Just connect. You can meet other listeners of the podcast, find out what other people are up to. And yeah, it's a great time. So, we'd love to see you in there if you feel called. It's school, S-K-O-O-L.com, forward slash key for the truth. We'll put the link in the brief as well. Please enjoy this episode. [Speaker 4] (3:04 - 3:10) You are now listening to the Year for the Truth Podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Yerasimos. [Speaker 3] (3:14 - 4:16) John Nehema, former IT professional turned geopolitical researcher, has spent over two decades uncovering the truth behind historical events often shrouded in deception. He's authored eight books, including the widely recognized The Falsification of History, which challenges mainstream narratives. Among his notable works are two books on the Titanic, where he presents compelling evidence that it was not the RMS Titanic, but its sister ship, the RMS Olympic, that sank in 1912. John's research dives deep into the manipulation of history and science, revealing the agendas of those who control the world's financial and political systems. John, welcome to Year for the Truth. Thank you very much. Great to be here. Great to have you here, man. I guess before we dive into the nitty-gritty, one way we always like to kick these off with first-time guests is we'd like to hear a little bit about your personal hero's journey and some of the major rites of passage and catalyzing moments in your life that led you down this path that you find yourself on today. [Speaker 1] (4:17 - 5:28) Yeah, sure. Well, as you said, I'm a geopolitical researcher, analyst, author, public speaker, and I've been doing it for 27 years in total. I know it was the Princess Diana murder that actually set me down this path, if you like. It was an incident that woke me up to what really goes on in the world, and I've just been down so many rabbit holes since then. At that time, obviously, I was working in IT again, as you said, but eventually, after about four years doing this kind of part-time, it became a full-time job, and then I became an author, and I've been an author for about 15 years now. So yeah, it's been a rollercoaster, but a fascinating rollercoaster. I enjoyed every minute, and so many rabbit holes, so many secrets revealed. Yeah, it's just changed my life, basically, and here we are 27 years later. [Speaker 2] (5:29 - 5:55) It's incredible. It's amazing how I would think for many of us that have gone on this path of questioning the various mainstream narratives and the status quo. We have that defining moment very often that the light bulb went off. For me, it was 9-11. I was 21 at the time, but what was it, unless Joel, you want to ask something else, what was it that geared you into the Titanic? [Speaker 1] (5:57 - 6:46) Yeah, it's a good question. I'd always been interested in the Titanic story. I found it fascinating because when you think about it, it's got just about every element that goes to make up a great story, hasn't it? It's got the rich versus poor theme. It's got the tragedy. There are certain happy aspects to it as well. You know, there are interesting little love stories that go along with it. It's just got everything, and I think that's kind of what attracts people to it. So it seemed like a natural thing to do to me to actually start investigating it, and as I said, once I started going down that rabbit hole, I uncovered so much stuff. It was just unbelievable. Some of the stuff is just, we won't have time to go through it all now. I'll do my best, but trust me, there is so much to it. [Speaker 2] (6:47 - 6:50) We got a little less than 90 minutes, you know? [Speaker 1] (6:50 - 7:08) Yeah, no, that's fine, but even so, I once did a four-hour podcast on it and didn't cover everything. There are so many different aspects to it and so many different little anomalies, and secrets in there, but we'll cover the basics without a doubt. [Speaker 2] (7:08 - 7:15) Yeah, and then hopefully people can go and purchase your material and go dive deeper for those that are interested to dive deeper, yeah. [Speaker 1] (7:15 - 7:32) Definitely. Well, I wrote a book which I called RMS Olympic, which is the truth about the Titanic story, and that contains just about everything that I know about it. So yeah, the book is a must for anyone who wants to go even deeper into the story. [Speaker 2] (7:33 - 7:41) What was the first thing with the Titanic that made you go, huh? [Speaker 1] (7:42 - 8:36) Oh, good question. I don't know. I'd have to think about that. Yeah, it was just, I know what it was. It was the fact that when I looked into it, the story that everyone thinks they know about the Titanic was actually written by a guy by the name of Walter Lord. And it turns out when I looked into Walter Lord's background, he was a CIA agent. Wow. Interesting. Yeah. And that story is called The Night to Remember. And he wrote a book called The Night to Remember. And then they made a film, a feature film called The Night to Remember in the late 50s. And that film and that book are the official Titanic story. But the reality is very, very, very different indeed. So yeah, it was that element to it, the fact that Lord was a CIA agent. [Speaker 3] (8:37 - 9:10) Oh, cool, cool. All right. I think one way to broach this would be to start, I guess, as broad as possible, then we can hone in on the nitty gritty and some details. So I guess, many people have different, I guess, lenses of what the conspiracy is. It's like, is it the JP Morgan versus Federal Reserve opponents? Is that the crux of it? I guess from a bird's eye view, how do we scope this in? And how do we start diving into this? [Speaker 1] (9:10 - 11:54) Yeah, well, why don't I try and do it in chronological order? That makes it a lot more easy to understand. And also, I'll start off by mentioning that there are two threads to the story. Okay. The one that you just mentioned, JP Morgan, and also the actual story of the ships themselves. But yeah, so it's two threads, but they do come together, and they do mingle into one. But just to give you a little bit of background to start with, to my research, I researched this for three years full time, from 2010 to 2013. And I looked at all lots of different places. I looked at contemporary newspaper reports, I went through various different libraries, gleaning as much information as I possibly could, archives in libraries. I looked at the transcripts of the public inquiries. There were two inquiries. The American Inquiry was the first one, followed by the British Inquiry. I checked out all the transcripts. And again, that's very, very revealing. Of course, the internet as well. And I also looked at the Marconi wireless transcripts, which are not available on the internet. They're only available in a place called Oxford in England, and specifically at the Bodleian Library in Oxford, which contains all the transcripts of the wireless communications that were going on in the North Atlantic between all the ships at that time. And that's very, very revealing as well. And then, as I mentioned, just before we came on air, I did a YouTube presentation. I did a presentation that appeared on YouTube, and it had about half a million views within a couple of months. And it came to the attention of a Hollywood film director. And she invited me over to LA to stay with her for a week or so in her ranch in the Hollywood Hills. And we went around various different producers trying to raise money to make the alternative story of Titanic. But of course, nobody was interested. So, you know, but that kind of died it off. I think it was 2013. Oh, so it was obviously after Cameron's movie, yeah. So yeah, but nothing ever came of it. But I did write two books as a result of that. So, you know, about the Titanic. So yeah, I mean, there's so much to relate about the story. As I said to you, I did a four-hour podcast and didn't cover everything. [Speaker 2] (11:56 - 12:02) Shall we start with maybe the whole Olympic theory element of it, or do you want to touch on something before that? [Speaker 1] (12:03 - 16:45) Yeah, why not? Well, let me just give you a little bit of background to it before we do that. So in 1908, J.P. Morgan, whose name still exists in the company that still bears his name, he bought into the White Star shipping line, which is what Olympic and Titanic belong to. And he decided to build three luxury liners with a mandate becoming the most luxurious in the world. And these were the Olympic, the Titanic, and the Britannic. So three ships, almost, but not quite identical, were to be built. And he commissioned the shipyard, Harland and Wolfe Shipyard in Belfast, Northern Ireland, to begin construction in 1908. And this required a massive amount of money, a massive investment of money. And it was financed by J.P. Morgan personally. So it was a huge gamble for himself and his own finances. And this plan depended on absolutely everything going right. But as we'll see as we go through, the whole enterprise was beset with problems, ultimately ending in tragedy, of course. And by the way, feel free to chip in anytime you want. I don't want to just carry on. You're literally going to be talking on and on and on. So Olympic was the first of the sisters to be built, and she was launched in 1911. Unfortunately, though, for Morgan, she had several serious accidents. She was a jinx ship. She had four accidents, three of which were before the launch of Titanic. So in other words, all in the first few months of Olympic's life. First of all, she destroyed a tug in New York Harbor on a maiden voyage. And White Star Line was sued for about $10,000, which doesn't sound very much these days. But in those days, well, basically multiply that by 100. So it was a lot of money. But fortunately, there were no deaths. And then on another trip, she ran over a sunken wreck at Sandy Hook whilst leaving New York Harbor, causing severe damage to her propellers. And she had to return back across the Atlantic at around half speed. But because of that, she suffered vibrational damage due to the imbalance caused by the propeller damage. And two propellers had to be replaced. Then shortly afterwards, on another trip, she hit a sandbank. She ran aground and threw a propeller. In other words, the propeller was lost. And that also had to be replaced. But having used both spares, they had to borrow one from the Titanic, which was still under construction. And it's worth bearing that in mind. We'll come back to that. It's very significant. Okay. So yeah. Though then in September 1911, the worst accident of them all, Olympic was involved in a massive high-speed collision with a British Navy battleship just off the south coast of England. This is known in Titanic circles as the Hawke incident. The battleship was HMS Hawke. And she went back to Southampton, which is where her home dock was, to be patched up. And this took two weeks just to get her in a fit state to be able to return to her dry dock in Belfast for full repairs and damage assessment. And back in dry dock in Belfast, it was realized that she was in far worse shape than they originally thought. And worse still, the Royal Navy inquiry, which anytime there's an accident involving a Royal Navy ship, there has to be an official inquiry, they found Olympic's crew and therefore White Star line culpable. And White Star was liable for the many millions of pounds of damage, not just to Olympic, but also to HMS Hawke. And also you've got to factor in as well the significant loss of revenues whilst Olympic was out of action. And bearing in mind that Morgan's plan depended on getting a very quick return because it puts so much money into it. So yeah, amongst many, many other relatively minor issues, the major problem was that Olympic's keel was bent. Now the keel is the, for those who are not aware, it's the bit that runs along the bottom of any ship and it holds the whole superstructure together. And speaking to maritime people, which I did, they all told me without fail that a bent keel on a ship is a wreck. Okay. It makes the ship a wreck. And the repairs were going to be estimated to cost more than to build a new ship from scratch. [Speaker 2] (16:47 - 16:58) So yeah, several- And also real quickly to jump in, White Star lines ensure wouldn't obviously cover any of these damages. Is that true? Correct. [Speaker 1] (16:58 - 25:02) That's absolutely correct. Yeah. So White Star now realized that Olympic was damaged beyond economic repair and significantly she was totally uninsurable. She was there for an insurance write-off and White Star had no option but to declare a wreck, which they did. They declared Olympic a wreck. It actually did happen. It's documented. And as I said, documents prove this to be true. And also due to the serious damage, as I said before, she was unable to play a trade back and forth across the Atlantic to pay her way. And the bankruptcy of White Star line and Harland and Wolfe was definitely on the cards at this point. Now Harland and Wolfe was a shipyard that was totally dependent on the White Star line. They only built ships for the White Star line. And again, the significance of that we'll come back to. So I believe that at this point Morgan and his co-conspirators, I think they hatched a plan to kill two birds with one stone. A, solve the White Star line financial problems because they were in a huge money pit and remove opposition to the Federal Reserve in one simple move. And again, that's something I'll come back to further in the story. So this insidious plan involved patching up the wrecked Olympic as best they could, bracing the twisted keel with metal struts. Now when Robert Ballard discovered the Titanic wreck site in 1985, he actually didn't, but that's another story. He was absolutely puzzled to find these struts on the wreck, which didn't appear on the construction blueprint. So yeah, so therefore I believe the scene was now set for one of the most remarkable and elaborate scams of the 20th century. And that was the switching of the identities of the two ships. They almost completed Titanic and they almost wrecked Olympic. And this is corroborated by many Belfast ship workers' families, which have had this story passed down to them through their families. I actually put an ad in a Belfast newspaper and I flew over there and I spoke to some other families. I spoke to four families separately, not together. And they all told me the same story, that they all said that their ancestor, whether it be the grandfather or the father or the great-grandfather, all said the same thing, that if they breathed a word about what was going on inside those dock gates outside, then they would never work again, not just at Harlan and Wolfe, but anywhere. And of course that was a death sentence in those days before social security and all the rest of it. So yeah, how was it carried out? I mean, it's easy for me to say, yeah, that's exactly what happened, but how did they do it? Well, after Olympic's accident with Hawk, she spent many weeks in the shipyard at Belfast and the changes were made bit by bit. The main differences in the two ships were slowly eradicated to make them as identical as possible, although that wasn't 100% practical and viable. And so this is how the plot's been discovered, you know, through meticulous research. There are lots of photographs showing them in various stages of transition, for example, a lot of which appear in my book, RMS Olympic, which prove the switch. Absolutely, categorically, 100% prove the switch. Then on one final weekend, the last changes were made. They changed over the lifeboats, the menus and letterheads, and of course the ship's nameplates. And these were carried out by a small crew of insiders. And we know that these men were paid £100 for a one weekend's work. Now, £100 doesn't sound like very much money nowadays, but trust me, that was a year's wages in those days. Okay. And they were also threatened with a loss of livelihood in the event of their speaking out about it. So yeah. Now, interestingly enough, Olympic's maiden voyage, which took place in June 1911, took place with virtually no razzmatazz, no fanfare at all. And yet, Titanic was launched in December 1911, renamed the Olympic, and the work continued on the original Olympic, which is now Titanic, to make her seaworthy enough for one dramatic final voyage. So they knew that it wasn't sustainable as an ongoing project. They knew that they had to sink her. So this is exactly what they did. Yeah. So now, all passenger ships in those days, and for all I know they still do today, British ones anyway, had to have what was known as a Board of Trade Certificate of Seaworthiness. And this involved the sea trial on the open sea, on the open ocean, which involved things like stopping, starting, turning circles, maneuverability, adequate number of lifeboats, etc. Now, every ship up until that point in time had gone through a full day of tests and trials before they could be awarded this Certificate of Seaworthiness. And it had to be on the open ocean as well, on the open sea. Now, that never happened with Titanic, which obviously had been Olympic. Never happened at all. So obviously, I'm sure there were brown envelopes passing around here to get through those regulations. You know, full of money, obviously. So yeah, let's talk about the actual voyage itself. So on the Wednesday, the 10th of April 1912, Titanic left Southampton on its maiden voyage for New York amidst huge celebrations. And they called it Cherbourg in France and Queenstown in Ireland. And it had 2,200 passengers and crew aboard. Now, a lot of people don't realize, but that the Titanic was only half full. Okay, only half full. Now, interestingly enough, the transit crew, the crew that were responsible for the safe passage of the liner from Belfast, where it had been built, to Southampton, which is 600 sea miles before the maiden voyage, only two of the transit crew signed on for the voyage. So that tells me that they knew that this was not Titanic, that this was Olympic. Okay. And a further element to that is that up until that point in time of Titanic's maiden voyage, there was actually a coal strike going on in the UK. There'd been a coal strike for the last week. Lots of liners were laid up, laying empty, scattered all around the various ports of the UK. And in addition to that, people have been clamoring for passages across the Atlantic, but no ships were sailing because they all used coal. You know, there were steam-powered ships, they used coal. For example, Titanic needed 6,000 tons of coal to cross the Atlantic. So they needed a lot of coal, but there was a coal strike at that time. So that kind of adds more weight to the idea that it was very strange that this transit crew didn't sign on for the maiden voyage, because these people only got paid when they were on board ship. Okay. They didn't have retainers. They only got paid, and they'd been laid up for six weeks, these people. So it's very strange that they would not take the opportunity of a job on the ship, because there was no ships sailing from the UK at all. [Speaker 2] (25:03 - 25:17) Do you think the two people that were part of the voyage, that were part of the transit crew, that they didn't know about it, or they were just like, hey, maybe they had some other role to play in it, and they were paid extra money? Well, I'll tell you why they did. [Speaker 1] (25:18 - 31:07) Because Titanic was actually calling at Queenstown in Ireland, they actually jumped ship at Queenstown. So basically, they were just hitching a lift back home. Got you. Yeah. Now there was another ship involved called the Californian. Now the SS Californian, which was a Red Star Line ship, also owned by J.P. Morgan. So J.P. Morgan owned White Star Line, and he owned the Red Star Line as well. And he had an umbrella company called International Mercantile Marine, IMM for short. And both those liners were part of the same conglomerate, if you like. Now, five days before Titanic sailed, Californian had actually departed for New York from London in the midst of this nationwide coal strike and shortage. And strangely enough, Californian carried no passengers at all. Like I said, bear in mind that people were clamoring for voyages across the Atlantic, business trips, see friends and family or whatever, return home. So it had no passengers, despite that huge demand, and no cargo except for, get this, 3,000 wooden sweaters and 3,000 woolen blankets. And as I said, Titanic even sailed half full when there was such a huge demand for places. First class passengers hoping to transfer to Titanic were only offered second class cabins. Now, I believe that was an attempt to keep numbers manageable because in those days, there was no self-respecting first class passenger would ever accept a second class berth. That was totally beyond the pale for them. It would really destroy their reputation if they traveled second class. So I believe it was an attempt to keep the numbers manageable because they knew what was going to happen. There was going to be a rescue operation and they needed to keep those numbers in check. So on the evening of the 14th of April, 1912, Californian stopped dead in the middle of the ice field where Titanic was due to pass very shortly and drifted with the ice whilst keeping all its boilers fully fired. And three experienced transatlantic sea captains gave evidence at the American inquiry that it was not common practice to stop or even slow down in ice fields except sometimes in foggy conditions as icebergs were extremely visible and therefore avoidable, even at normal cruising speeds. And when the captain of Californian, Stanley Lord, was asked about why it stopped in the ice field, he said because it was too dangerous to continue. But what I've just said completely negates that idea. It was not common practice to do that. So Lord was lying basically. So on Sunday the 14th of April at 11.40 local time, Titanic allegedly hits the iceberg and sinks three hours later with the loss of 1,500 lives. Now I question whether there was even an iceberg there or not but that's another story. Now interestingly, let's assume that that was correct and that Titanic did hit an iceberg. Her turning circle was such that it should have been easy to avoid the iceberg in good time. Its turning circle was, I can't remember what it was. It was something like, yeah, I can't remember. But I can't remember the exact figures. I quote them in the book. Officially it wasn't spotted until it was allegedly too late. But in reality we know that the iceberg was seen four miles away, which of course is all rather strange. We know there's iceberg there. It's just a question of whether Titanic actually hit it or whether she actually steered close to it to give the impression that she did. Now they tell us that there was copious amounts of ice on the decks as a result of the alleged collision with the iceberg. But very, very few people felt any kind of collision at all. Anybody that actually did notice said it was just a very mild vibration. So yeah, we know there was ice on the decks, but that could easily have been as a result of the shaking loose of large amounts of ice from the miles of overhead rigging and wiring due to thrust in the engine to reverse. Because that's exactly what happened. As soon as the incident happened, the engines were abruptly thrusted into reverse and that could have shaken loose all the ice. Also, Titanic had some very strange damage. Now the steel plates had a 15 centimeter, a four inch wide puncture that at some places penetrated 1.6 meters into the inner skin. So that's about five feet. That was about 300 feet long apparently, but that would have needed a really bizarrely shaped piece of ice sticking out of an iceberg to achieve that. And that piece of ice, if that had actually been there, surely would have snapped off in contact with the steel. That just doesn't ring true to me at all. Yeah, so that's that element of it. And we need to talk a little bit about the Federal Reserve aspect of it. [Speaker 2] (31:07 - 31:20) Real quickly, are you saying that the damage that they found on the quote-unquote Titanic makes sense because it was really the Olympic and the damage was from the previous voyages of the Olympic? [Speaker 1] (31:20 - 31:44) No, I'm saying that they claim that that was the ice damage. My take on that is that ice cannot possibly create damage in that kind of a shape because a five foot piece of ice with a four inch width. [Speaker 2] (31:44 - 31:49) Yeah, I hear you there, but so what was the damage caused by then? [Speaker 1] (31:50 - 32:41) Well, we don't know. This is the problem. We don't know what the actual damage was from, but only a very few eyewitnesses said that they saw an iceberg. We know that it was near to an iceberg at the very least. But I think my point is that because of the turning circle of the ship and the distance that they claimed they saw the iceberg from the ship, they should have easily been able to avoid it. It's possible that that damage was caused by something like some kind of a battleship, some kind of an icebreaker, that kind of thing. But I'm absolutely sure that an iceberg could not have done that. And again, I go into far more detail about that in the book. [Speaker 3] (32:42 - 32:56) Cool. So just to recap, I guess, for those listening, so the Californian was sent out in a premeditated effort to be the rescue option. Yes. For this planned wreckage. [Speaker 1] (32:56 - 33:02) Yeah, they didn't intend to kill everyone. Okay. But anyway, I'll come on to that very shortly. [Speaker 3] (33:02 - 33:11) Yeah. I've got one more question. Did you mention that the captain of the Californian was someone named Stanley Lord? Was that right? Stanley Lord, yeah. Any connection to the Walter Lord that wrote this? [Speaker 1] (33:11 - 33:59) No, actually, I did some research into that. No connection whatsoever. Okay, cool. No, none at all that I could find, that I could find. Cool. Okay. So we need to talk about the connection between the Titanic and the formation of the Federal Reserve in the US in 1913. Well, if we turn the clock back slightly to 1910, there were seven prominent financiers representing various financial interests, American financial interests. They met incognito at a place called Jekyll Island, which is off the coast of Georgia, USA, to hatch a plan to usurp the power to create money from the American government. And the result of that was to be the Federal Reserve. [Speaker 3] (33:59 - 34:05) Yeah, we've previously hosted G. Edward Griffin on this podcast. Ah, right. [Speaker 1] (34:05 - 34:13) Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I guess most of the listeners know about it. Well, G. Edward Griffin actually wrote the back page blurb on my book. [Speaker 3] (34:14 - 34:20) Oh, wow. That's amazing. Yeah, feel free to give some Jekyll Island basics for relevance, definitely. [Speaker 1] (34:20 - 40:54) Okay. All right. Yeah. So, yeah. Obviously, the Federal Reserve Bank is a central bank. It's not federal. It doesn't have any reserves. It is a private institution. And obviously, the plan was to usurp the creation of money from government hands into private hands. But it wasn't without strong opposition from certain mega-rich people. Obviously, one of the prime movers behind the Federal Reserve was J.P. Morgan, you know, one of the major protagonists in this story. But there were four extremely wealthy men who were totally opposed to the Federal Reserve Plan. And these were John Jacob Astor, Benjamin Guggenheim, Isidore Strauss, and Charles Lindbergh, Sr. Now, Charles Lindbergh, Sr. was father of the famous flyer, the famous aviator, who was Charles Lindbergh, Jr. He was the first man to fly the Atlantic Solo. And the reason that these guys were totally opposed to the Federal Reserve Plan, it wasn't because of any altruism on their part for the common people, but because they knew that the Fed plan would mean soaring inflation and inbuilt debt, which would severely impact their own fortunes. So, there was nothing benevolent about what they were doing. It was purely selfish and for their own purposes. And these four guys, it created a strong resistance movement on the East Coast. And they were beginning to win the battle against the Federal Reserve conspiracies. And interestingly enough, three of those men died on the Titanic. Now, the fourth one, Charles Lindbergh, Sr., he was a congressman at the time, and he was offered $2 million, which again was a massive amount of money, multiplied by 100 in today's figures. He was offered $2 million not to publish his book. I can't remember what it was called, but it was to do with the Money Trust, which of course he accepted and he didn't publish it. But he wasn't on Titanic, it was just the other three. So, I believe that going back to what I said before about there was no fanfare at all, no Rosmataz for Olympics launch, but there was absolutely for Titanic. Now, I believe that that was in order to lure the rich and famous in great numbers to this hyped up maiden voyage by Morgan, who by the way, mysteriously failed to show at the docks in time for the departure of the ship on the morning of the maiden voyage. And not just him, around 50 of his friends and business colleagues also failed to show at the last minute. So, I believe that this is perhaps how he lured Aster, Guggenheim and Strauss aboard, by personal invite and by booking a passage for himself. So, how did they facilitate the accident and how did they expect to pull off the deception? Well, first of all, because it was no accident. I believe that Stanley Lord, the captain of the Californian was in on the plot. The Red Star Line was also owned by JPM, as I mentioned earlier. And Lord was the ideal man for the job actually, because he'd successfully evacuated some 2,000 people from a ship in under an hour in a military exercise a few years earlier. So, he was a perfect man for the job. Because I believe it was his intention to save most of the passengers and just allow a select few to become victims to cover up the disposal of the Federal Reserve conspirators. Because of those three guys, two of their bodies weren't recovered. But J.J. Aster's body was recovered about two weeks after. They sent out rescue ships looking for bodies floating in the ocean. And Aster's body was found, but his face was just a battered, bloody mess. And he was only recognizable, only identifiable by the contents of his pockets. And he also had $10,000 in his pocket. So, it wasn't robbery. So, the idea was that SS Californian would be standing by to complete the rescue with 3,000 woolen blankets and 3,000 sweaters to pick up all the survivors. Now, interestingly, several passengers said afterwards, and again, this is straight from the horse's mouth, that they'd been told by White Star Line staff immediately in the aftermath of the disaster that the Californian was on its way to pick them up. Yet, Californian was totally incommunicado 90 miles away with its wireless equipment switched off and beyond visible contact. And there'd been no communications between Californian and Titanic at all at that point, or indeed ever, apart from one. One message, and I know this from checking the transcripts of the Marconi wireless messages, one message, and it just simply stated Californian's position to Titanic. Now, A, why would they do that? Why would they tell Titanic where they were? What was the point of that? Why would Titanic care where the ship was? Because this was several hours before the incident. And that was the only communication they'd ever had. So, how come that White Star Line staff, White Star Line officers knew that allegedly Californian was on its way to pick them up? Because that's what they told the passengers. So, there was obviously some kind of collusion going on there. Yeah. So, why didn't the Californian show up? Nobody really knows. It was just, you know, because communication in those days was very hit and miss. She had her wireless switched off for some reason. Not all ships had wireless in those days. It was a very, very new thing. You know, it's the latest technology. Titanic had it because it was a new ship. Californian did have it. But apparently, the wireless officers switched off at 11 o'clock in the evening and went to bed. [Speaker 2] (40:55 - 41:12) Do you think, this is my mind immediately, goes to more people, more witnesses. You know, like on some darker level, you know, some decision was made from the top to be like, yeah, we don't want to have as many people speaking about things they saw or heard, etc. Anyways, that thought just came. [Speaker 1] (41:13 - 41:19) Yeah, no, that's a good, that's a great point, actually. Yeah. It's, you know, it's very possible. [Speaker 3] (41:19 - 41:24) Are you saying the staff, if the staff of the Californian rocked up, is that what you're saying, Erasmus? [Speaker 2] (41:25 - 42:08) No, I'm saying that obviously the Californian didn't make it. I know I remember either on your presentation or somewhere else reading about like different colored flares. But for whatever reason, the SS Californian did not play its, I guess, role as we thought it would. And many people perished. And so my mind goes to, well, you know, many people need to know basis. So maybe the people above were like, yeah, turn off your stuff. You're not going to hear the Mayday reports. We want more people to die. Because as we know, with the research we do, there are psychopaths in this world that make decisions and they don't care if 10,000 people, 50,000 people perish. [Speaker 3] (42:08 - 42:20) That would mean that they changed their mind in like the relative last minute, because obviously they sent the Californian out initially thinking that they were going to conduct a rescue mission, which I'm not saying is not possible. [Speaker 2] (42:20 - 42:30) No, I'm saying that could also just be part of the story. Like, yeah, let's send them out, but we're really not going to save them, you know, like in terms of people on top. [Speaker 3] (42:30 - 42:37) Why even send them out and have the record of the 3,000 life jackets? I don't know. Who knows? [Speaker 2] (42:37 - 42:42) I hear what you're saying. Anyways, we can continue with the stuff we actually do now. [Speaker 1] (42:43 - 43:13) Yeah. I mean, it's a good point and it's an interesting point, actually. Yeah. Well, I mean, to be frank, we'll never know the real truth about it all. All I can tell you is about the anomalies surrounding the official story and the kind of fragmented story that I've pieced together as a result of what I've discovered. We'll never know the real truth. We'll never know the real truth. But I think what we're talking about tonight is about as close as we'll ever get, you know? [Speaker 3] (43:14 - 43:38) Yeah. Just a quick maybe side detour in terms of the Strausses. Isidore Strauss. So, with the Titan submarine that went down in 2023, the wife of the captain, who was the Rush's, Wendy Rush, was a great, great granddaughter of Isidore Strauss, which I find a super, super weird connection as well. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (43:38 - 44:08) I didn't know that. That is very interesting. Now, that incident with the Titan, and there's a lot of very strange anomalies about that as well. But it's not something that I've researched in depth, I must say. It's something that I've kind of intended to do, but I've never quite got around to it because I've just been so busy these last few months with one thing and another. But yeah, there's a lot of little snippets around that that just kind of make me think. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, definitely. [Speaker 2] (44:09 - 44:20) Because it relates to this, and maybe we'll talk about this. Do you think this whole protection around going to see the Titanic is because, as technology's advanced, there could be video footage that would prove the things that we're talking about here? [Speaker 1] (44:20 - 44:37) Absolutely. I don't think there's any doubt about that. I think that is exactly spot on, and that is the reason why. I think part of the Titan thing was to discourage people from going down there. They don't want people poking around down there because they know that they're a troop. [Speaker 3] (44:38 - 44:57) Yeah. I mean, I don't know how long people have been finding submerged ships underwater, but it seems an awfully long time, 1985 from 1914, to find this ship, right? Like, was that 70 years nearly? Well, again, you know, if you remember at the beginning when I said- You said it wasn't the real thing, yeah. [Speaker 1] (44:57 - 45:26) Yeah. I mean, they'd known all along where the ship was. Absolutely no question. You know, I've got evidence, which I published in the book, to say that they knew where it was from 1953, at the very least, and probably way before that as well. I've got actual pictures of newspaper reports from that date of 1953 saying the wreck of the Titanic has been found, and yet people have very short memory. [Speaker 4] (45:26 - 45:26) Yeah. [Speaker 3] (45:27 - 45:34) So, they planned when to bring the story back into the mainstream purview. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. [Speaker 1] (45:35 - 46:30) So, yeah. And there's all sorts of stories about apparently there were lots of British naval ships escorting Titanic. Where were they in rescue attempt? There was legends of there being, excuse me, a billion dollars worth of gold on board, which is, you know, a considerable amount of money in those- I mean, it's a considerable amount of money these days, but in those days, that was a massive amount of money. And the newspaper headline was, Ships Search for Titanic's Gold. This was from 1953. So, again, there's lots and lots of elements to this story that are very, very interesting, and yet not in the kind of public domain, if you like. So, there's all sorts of little anomalies like that that are going on that. [Speaker 3] (46:30 - 46:57) Yeah. Okay. So, they switched out the Titanic for the Olympic. So, then I guess my assumption is that the Titanic went on under the guise of the Olympic, but wasn't the Olympic supposed to be a wreck? So, weren't people wondering, why is this ship out there? Or did the real Titanic under the label of the Olympic, like, never really hit sea and go on trips and stuff like that? [Speaker 1] (46:58 - 47:40) Oh, yeah. I mean, absolutely. Yeah. The Titanic, well, what had been Titanic, which became Olympic, applied it straight across the Atlantic for another 25 years. And this is another point in favor of this particular theory, and that is that the North Atlantic is known as a graveyard for ships. Especially in winter, it's a treacherous place for ships. So, can you imagine a ship that had undergone such dreadful damage that Olympic had, playing its trade 20 times a year or whatever it was across the Atlantic for 25 years? No, I don't think so. I mean, it was just in too bad a shape for that to even be possible. [Speaker 3] (47:42 - 47:50) So, yeah. So, they just went under the guise that, oh, yeah, the Olympic had a full repair, and it was out there doing its thing. Yeah. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (47:50 - 48:02) Yeah. I mean, I honestly, I don't know whether questions were asked about the fact that it had been declared a wreck. I presume there would have been good questions from somewhere, but I never found out anything about that, unfortunately. [Speaker 3] (48:03 - 48:03) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (48:03 - 53:23) Yeah. So, yeah. The ship that actually picked up the survivors, the 705 survivors, was called the Carpathia. And that took something like four and a half, five hours to get to the lifeboats. Titanic had sunk sadly by that time. But interestingly enough, Carpathia, and again, very strangely, Carpathia, a few weeks before, had been refitted as a hospital ship, and it had seven doctors on board. Again, there's no kind of logic behind this at all, but it's just blandly stated that this was the case. You know? So, very, very strange. It was all kitted out as though it was going to be a ship that picked up a few survivors. You know, it was fitted out with all the medical staff. It was like, you know, a serious hospital wards. It was just a very, very strange situation, which I can't even begin to explain. All I can do is relate the facts. So, yeah. And of course, both inquiries were widely thought at the time to be whitewashers. You know, there was no witnesses called from any of the passengers, except from the wealthy Gordon family, which from the famous British gin company. No witnesses were allowed to give personal evidence. They were strictly forbidden from speaking, other than to give simple answers to direct questions without elaboration. An interesting quote from Stanley Lord, captain of the Californian. When he was questioned by the press, when he dropped all the survivors off in New York, he said, and I quote, I am not allowed to give out state secrets. You will have to ask those in the office, which is a famous quote from Stanley Lord. You will. So, the Californian did end up with survivors on board at some point? Oh, sorry. No, not survivors. No. I beg your pardon. That's me getting that wrong. When the Californian actually did end up in New York, not with any survivors, he was asked about the incident and he said, I'm not allowed to give out state secrets. You'll have to ask those in the office. So, state secrets? Yeah. Wow. When the surviving crew members arrived back in England about two weeks after the disaster, they were all illegally detained overnight in a holding pen in Plymouth docks without access to legal or union representation. And they were coerced into signing a document that they believed was the Official Secrets Act. And the Official Secrets Act is a British thing and anything that is a secret, a government secret, anybody who deals with government secrets apparently has to sign this document called the Official Secrets Act, which means that if they break that trust, they go immediately to jail. They don't pass go and they don't collect $200. So, they were forced to sign that document, which is very significant. Now, let's return to the iceberg situation. There were only five eyewitnesses to the incident. William Murdoch, who was first officer. There were two lookouts in the crow's nest, the helmsman and one other ordinary seaman. Now, significantly, Murdoch allegedly committed suicide in the aftermath of the collision, leaving the only witnesses four working class men. And I emphasize working class men, because how easy would it have been in those days where working class men didn't question anything? How easy was it to keep them quiet through threats to their livelihoods and their family's future and all the rest of it? Very, very much easier. So, there were only four witnesses. One of them, Robert Hitchens, who was the helmsman, he was immediately shipped off to Cape Town in South Africa and promoted to harbour master. That's one hell of a promotion for a guy who'd been a helmsman on a liner. So, yeah, very, very strange stuff going on. So, all in all, was Titanic set up by Captain Smith, Captain Edward Smith, on the orders of J.P. Morgan to enter an ice field at high speed, you know, and with the intent of ramming with something called the yellow funnel steamer incident, which, as I say, could be an icebreaker. Many eyewitnesses saw this yellow funnel steamer very, very close to the ship in immediate aftermath. Again, that never makes it into official stories. But yeah, was the yellow funnel steamer, was that an icebreaker of some kind or some kind of military vessel? Yeah. [Speaker 3] (53:24 - 53:32) So, if we're questioning the iceberg, you're saying we don't know exactly what caused the ship to actually wreck? [Speaker 1] (53:32 - 54:02) No, we don't. We don't. And I believe that's part of the reason why they cover it, why they don't like people going down to the wreck. They say it's because it's a grave site and it's, you know, sacred ground and all the rest of it and, you know, consecrated ground and all the rest of it. As if they should have got anything concentrated. Yeah, exactly. I think it's more likely it's to protect the true, you know, their version of the truth. They know that if people go poking around down there, they're going to inspect the damage and they're going to say, hang on a minute. [Speaker 2] (54:03 - 54:03) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (54:04 - 54:06) No iceberg could ever have done that. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (54:06 - 54:12) What are the options in terms of what brought it down? Can you manually allow water into a ship to... Yeah. [Speaker 1] (54:13 - 55:15) I've heard this story. I've heard people say that it could have been, it's called scuttling it, where you open the, what they call the sea cocks, which are big valves in the bottom of the ship. If you open all those, the ship will sink. It's possible. Yeah. They could have deliberately sunk it that way. There was stories of a fire on board all throughout the entirety of the voyage. I cover that in the book a little bit in Coal Bunker 10. Apparently, there was a fire raging for the entire voyage in Coal Bunker 10. And it's very possible that there was an explosion, you know, because when gases build up in an enclosed space, you know, it's very possible that it could have ignited an explosion. And maybe that, you know, maybe that was a deliberate thing. Maybe it was an accidental thing. I don't know. But again, that's another possibility. You know, I don't pretend to have all the answers. All I know is that the official story is nonsense. [Speaker 2] (55:15 - 55:20) So all I know, John, is that you're here for the truth and you're willing to ask tough questions. Absolutely. [Speaker 3] (55:21 - 55:21) Absolutely. [Speaker 2] (55:21 - 55:22) It's the only way you can do it. [Speaker 3] (55:22 - 55:26) Was there a successful insurance claim for the quote unquote Titanic? [Speaker 1] (55:28 - 56:33) Absolutely. Now, interestingly enough, White Star Line traditionally, and in all of the cases, insured its ships for 75% of the value. Now, interestingly enough, and stop me if you've heard this story before or a similar story before, two weeks before Titanic's maiden voyage, they upped the insurance to 125%. Sounds like Silverstein. Correct. Spot on. Yeah, absolutely. And the insurance claim was paid within a week. And when they, it was Lloyds of London, who insured the ship. And when they were questioned as to why they paid out so quickly, they said, well, the incident obviously happened. Well, there's no disputing that. The ship sank. But my question would be, yeah, the incident obviously happened. There's no disputing it at all. But it's not so much the fact that it happened. It's the hows and whys it happened. They didn't even go into that. [Speaker 3] (56:35 - 56:45) This is where I think like, okay, so if the insurer Lloyds was colluding with JP Morgan, why do they need to have this elaborate event and not just pay him out for the Olympic? [Speaker 1] (56:47 - 56:48) I don't know. That's a good question. [Speaker 3] (56:48 - 56:50) Yeah, yeah, yeah. [Speaker 1] (56:51 - 57:14) I don't know. I don't know the answer. So maybe that's a blind alley, but I'm just telling you the facts. Yeah, no, thank you. So yeah, Morgan got his insurance payout. The Federal Reserve came to pass the following year with little to no resistance because the opposition had been destroyed in one fell swoop. [Speaker 2] (57:14 - 57:18) Also, real quickly, to answer Joel's question, well, then how would you take care of the three bankers? [Speaker 3] (57:19 - 57:26) Just saying. Well, then we're going, that becomes the primary motivation. I get it. [Speaker 2] (57:26 - 57:30) Anyways, continue. We could have this conversation for hours. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (57:30 - 58:37) So I believe that the British government were complicit and also the American government. Now, why would the British government become complicit? Because the prevailing party at that time was the Liberal Party who were in charge. And they knew that if Olympic had to be scrapped, then Harland and Wolf and White Star would have gone dead. And it's almost certain that Morgan would have cut his losses and pulled out. And the damage to the British economy, the unemployment figures, it would have put about 60,000 people out of work, plus several more thousands in associated dependent industries. And I believe that the Liberals would have absolutely faced a humiliating defeat in the next election, which wasn't too far away. So I believe it was in their interest to help cover up, you know, because those two companies would have gone down and taken, you know, 60,000 people out of work. So yeah, interesting. [Speaker 3] (58:39 - 58:51) Very, very, very interesting. And it's interesting, you know, how much this story is embedded within the collective psyche, you know? Yeah. [Speaker 1] (58:52 - 59:32) It's the same old MO, isn't it? They, anything that is a lie, they absolutely push the story relentlessly. You know, it's not just the Titanic. I'm talking about the many, many, many incidents of similar incidents, even different kinds of incidents. You know, as a seasoned researcher, one of the things that I know is that if they're pushing a particular story relentlessly, constantly, then you've got to start looking at it. You've got to start questioning it because they do that for one reason, and that's to embed it into our psyches. And it's a very, very successful tactic. [Speaker 2] (59:33 - 59:46) Yeah. And especially with the James Cameron movie, like I actually think it was like in the late 90s because I watched it with my girlfriend in high school. And like that movie, I mean, that movie is just like everywhere, you know? So it drills it even further in. Absolutely. [Speaker 1] (59:47 - 1:03:43) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Another aspect of it is that when Morgan purchased the White Star Line, he did it against British law, okay? Because foreign nationals at that time were not allowed to purchase British shipping lines. But there was an agreement between Morgan and the British government, and he agreed that upon taking over White Star Line, that any White Star Line ship could be requisitioned as troop carriers in the event of a war. Now, they knew there was a war coming up. This was only two years after World War I, which started in 1914 in Europe. Obviously, the Americans didn't join until 1917, but they knew at this point in time that a war was coming up. And real history, I'm talking about real history here, tells us the financiers had been planning World War I for at least two decades. And the Federal Reserve Bank was a stepping stone to bring that about because once the Federal Reserve Bank had been established, it enabled them to generate money out of thin air. And that enabled them to finance World War I. So yeah, I mean, the other thing was it was a common scam in those days to switch identities. This is something that someone kindly informed me many, many years ago when I was first looking into it. It's not an isolated occurrence. It was a common scam. Switch ship's identities and sink one as the other one and claim the insurance. Yeah. Now, there's an interesting incident as well with a guy by the name of Louis Klein. Louis Klein, he was an Austro-Hungarian sailor, seaman who worked for White Star Line. But interestingly enough, his name has been totally deleted, expunged from the crew list. It doesn't appear on the crew list. But we know that he existed because he appears very prominently in the transcript to the American Inquiry. Now, apparently, Klein could speak no English. He shouted a warning to the lookout in his own language, German, and to the bridge. But there was no one there, he said, apart from an officer, lying motionless, believed drunk, on a bench. On arrival at New York, he was placed under house arrest and subpoenaed to appear at the American Inquiry. But he escaped and failed to show. But he did actually enter a written testimony which had been gleaned from him the day before. I'll read that out to you now. I'll just bring it up on here. There's a written testimony. This written testimony was translated from German and submitted to the Inquiry. It's there in the ball following a banquet of some kind going on down below when I went up on watch at 9.30. And the captain and the officers were there with many passengers. After the party, the stewards sent the champagne and wines that were left over to the crew. I know that many of them were drunk. A passenger standing at the rail saw something dead ahead or maybe a little to the starboard. And he said, look, quick, see the hill over there. I saw it was a big iceberg and ran for the bridge. The third officer was coming and yelled to me to ask what the matter was. I couldn't stop to answer. I was too excited. I ran for the spa with the crow's nest on it and shouted to the lookout I knew was up there to give the alarm. Not a word did I hear. So I started up the spa. It was less than a minute after I left the promenade deck that I got to the top of the spa and found the lookout fast asleep. I rang the alarm bell myself. [Speaker 3] (1:03:47 - 1:03:53) So make of that what you will. So doesn't that validate an iceberg, that report? [Speaker 1] (1:03:55 - 1:11:16) Possibly. We know that it was an iceberg around. We know that it was an iceberg around, but it's just a question of whether the iceberg actually hit the ship. Did they steer the ship near the iceberg to give the impression that it hit the iceberg? Who knows? We'll never know. Apparently, Captain E.J. Smith, Captain Edward Smith went down with the ship, but there are several incidents that actually defy this. Now, what if Smith actually survived against all the odds, but that fact was suppressed, possibly to prevent his testifying in inquiries. Maybe they found him unreliable. You may think that's ridiculous, but there is some evidence to back up that premise. Now, there's a newspaper report, which I dug out in part of my research. This is from the Washington Herald of the 21st of July, 1912, which is about three months after the event. And the dateline is Baltimore, July 20th, 1912. And it says Peter Pryle, a wealthy retired mariner of this city, who was a shipmate of Captain Smith of the Titanic for 17 years, declared today that he saw Captain Smith in Baltimore yesterday and talked with him. He said he met him on the street on Thursday and accosted him, but the commander brushed by him angrily. The next day he declared he saw him again and followed him around the city to a railroad station, where the captain bought a ticket for Washington. Just as he was about to pass through the gates, Pryle declares, the man turned to him and greeted him by name. And he said, I'm on business. Don't worry me, Pryle. He said, be good to yourself old shipmate, till we meet again. Pryle is now under the care of a physician, suffering from nervous shock brought on by the experience. His physician declares he is absolutely sane. He's well known in Baltimore and an active church member. So what are we to make of this? Firstly, it could hardly be in a case of mistaken identity as Pryle actually spoke to Smith and in return was addressed not only by name but also as shipmate. And secondly, as a retired and wealthy mariner, it could be argued that it was not simply a case of Pryle trying to make a fast buck out of this episode. On the contrary, it would seem that he would have everything to lose and nothing to gain by relating his experience to a newspaper. He appears to be a normal, upstanding, church-going member of society and was declared absolutely sane by his doctor. So how else would we explain it, of course, unless, of course, it's the truth. Then hidden away on page 95 of the February 12, 1940 issue of Life magazine, there's a letter from a guy by the name of Charles Wilson of New York, which states as follows. Says, 28 years ago, Captain E.J. Smith of the Titanic disappeared in New York. Three years later, an unknown penniless man, whom local police called Silent Smith, died in Lima, Ohio. The stranger wouldn't talk except to mutter Smith when asked his name. Undoubtedly, he was a seaman. The Rock of Ages was tattooed on his chest. A map of the Pacific was tattooed on his back. His height and weight were the same as the Titanic's Captain Smith. Embalmed by a local undertaker, Silent Smith's body has been kept on display in an effort to identify him. No one has yet been able to do so. So the following details can be gleaned from links to newspapers in Lima, Ohio. And this was Thursday, the October 14, 1915, and the headline was, Mysterious Strangers Life Ends Without Any Relatives Being Found. And I quote, it says, a sudden stroke of apoplexy closed forever the lips of Silent Smith, whose real name is Michael McKenna, allegedly, at the county infirmary at 030 this morning. McKenna dropped over dead and for a time it was thought he had taken poison or something of the sort. The coroner E.J. Curtis was called and he discovered that a slight stroke in the already weakened condition of the man's system caused an easy death. The mysterious stranger will no doubt be buried in the potter's field as absolutely nothing is known of him. After a night spent in the city prison, Silent Smith was arraigned in probate court and found to be demented. Not dangerous, he was sent to the county infirmary until some other disposal could be made of him. Added to his idiosyncrasy of not talking was that of not eating, and there were days when he scarcely touched food, and never unless someone had ate with him. Old, unkempt, white of hair, and halt of step, he was a pitiful figure. The article then goes on to state that he claimed his name was Michael McKenna and that he'd been sent to Lima from Fort Wayne, Indiana. However, the authorities in Fort Wayne denied any knowledge of him and refused to take his body after he died. Also, the later report makes no mention of the name McKenna, referring to him only by the name of Smith. And it goes on and on and on and on. And in my view, it's more than possible that Silent Smith was indeed none other than Captain E.J. Smith and that he was disposed of by those who had no further use of his services as soon as he began to attract attention to himself. This obviously meant that Smith would have had to have survived the wreck and was smuggled into New York by a captain who absolutely knew who he was. And he kept the secret of his identity for three and a half years until either his conscience began to niggle him or his mental facilities deteriorated, probably the latter one you know, suspect. So if Smith survived, he must have been on board Carpathia since California was far too late arriving and only turned up when everybody was safely ensconced on Carpathia. Yeah, but interestingly, when Carpathia arrived in New York with the traumatized passengers, Captain Rostron, who was the captain of Carpathia, his priority didn't seem to be to disembark the traumatized passengers at the first opportunity after this terrible ordeal that they'd all been through, but it was to unload the Titanic's lifeboats at the White Star Pier. Maybe Smith and possibly others, we don't know, were concealed within those lifeboats. And this could also be another reason that Rostron maintained radio silence, which he did until he got to New York. And until the story, which meant for public consumption, had been agreed upon by the perpetrators. Of course, we'll never know for sure, but at least it's an interesting possibility. [Speaker 2] (1:11:17 - 1:11:32) Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about how they changed like the plates of, you know, if it was the Olympic plates and if there's any evidence to show that? Yeah, definitely. [Speaker 1] (1:11:33 - 1:13:19) Yeah. I mean, interestingly enough, there wasn't that much to do in terms of the final switch. Obviously, a lot of structural work went on in the months prior to the actual final switch. But there was only the only things that nothing was named apart from the menus, the letter heading in the lounges and the lifeboats were all named by the ship, so they had to switch all those. And as you say, the nameplates. Now, the guy who was the engraver of the nameplates, the ship's names were originally engraved into the steel plating. His name escapes me, but apparently, and again, I cover this in the book, he was paid a huge sum of money and given a house a lot nearer to his workplace. And he still carried on being employed by White Star until it was taken over by Cunard, you know, a good few years later. But he was the guy who actually did the nameplate job. And what they did, because the nameplates had been engraved into the side of the ship, they actually had to weld raised plates up over the engravings. So, that's the way that was done. And that guy was involved in that as well. So, we know that that took place because there's evidence to say that he was a complicit in that. And his wife came forward about 20 years later, after he died, and said, and admitted that that's exactly what had happened. And they'd be given a house as a result of it. [Speaker 2] (1:13:20 - 1:13:31) Wow. Is there any evidence with any footage of people that had gone to the Titanic to see the nameplates that it doesn't say Titanic, but it says, no, okay. [Speaker 1] (1:13:31 - 1:14:09) No, no, not at all. You know, they're very, very protective of the wreck, very protective, overly protective. How far down is the wreck? It is 12,000 feet. Wow. It's the deepest part of the Atlantic, which again is a suspicious, you could say it's coincidence, yeah, of course. But it's very suspicious that it's actually the deepest part of the Atlantic. So, it's not 12,000, sorry, it's not 12,000 feet, don't talk ridiculous. I can't remember what the depth is. It's very deep. [Speaker 3] (1:14:09 - 1:14:11) Yeah, so it's 12,500 feet. [Speaker 1] (1:14:11 - 1:14:19) Is it 12,500? Yeah, I know that it takes three hours to get there in a submersible. Yeah. So, it's a long way down, three hours it takes to get there. [Speaker 2] (1:14:20 - 1:14:21) Yeah, 12,500. [Speaker 3] (1:14:22 - 1:14:24) Nearly nine Empire State buildings. [Speaker 1] (1:14:25 - 1:14:27) Yeah, yeah, yeah. [Speaker 3] (1:14:27 - 1:14:36) So, it's a long way. Yeah. All right. I guess the most important question, John, were Jack and Rose real? [Speaker 1] (1:14:39 - 1:14:57) Strangely enough, I gave a stand-up talk last night down in the south of England, and somebody asked me exactly the same question, which was also tongue-in-cheek, by the way. But no, of course not. Of course not. No, no. No, no, no. [Speaker 2] (1:14:57 - 1:15:01) You mentioned at the beginning you were going to talk about the propeller. Oh, right. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:15:02 - 1:15:43) Thank you for reminding me. Yeah. Now, people say to me, there's actually a picture of a propeller sat there on the bottom of the ocean bed with the build number of 401. Now, 401 was Titanic's build number. So, people say to me, of course it's Titanic, John. It's got build number 401 on the propeller, and you can see it clearly. And yeah, absolutely right. But remember what I said right at the beginning, they switched the propellers. They changed the damage to the Olympic. Exactly that. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's not conclusive proof, but it puts that little argument to bed for sure. [Speaker 2] (1:15:44 - 1:16:00) Yeah. What are any other, like, I know you said earlier we could talk about this for four hours, but like in our last 10 minutes or so, like, what are any other points that you'd love to bring forth just to kind of continue to plant the seed? And anyone who's listening, like, oh man, I got to learn more about this. [Speaker 1] (1:16:02 - 1:16:22) Yeah. Thanks for putting me on the spot. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. There's so much stuff. It's difficult to know where to begin. Yeah. I mean, most of it is circumstantial, obviously. Yeah. I mean, if it was absolute proof, then there'd be no disputing it, would there? [Speaker 2] (1:16:23 - 1:16:46) But yeah. Obviously, since you've been doing your research, I mean, as is the case often when people challenge conventional narratives, like, what kind of pushback have you received or what, like, counter questioning have you received to make you go, oh, okay, I didn't look at that. Maybe I need to, you know what I mean? Like, what's it been like since, yeah. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:16:46 - 1:17:59) Well, to be honest, I've never found anything that's conclusive proof to me that it's Titanic sat on the seabed. I've never, nobody has ever successfully debated me to the point where I believe that I was wrong. On the contrary, you know, I can refute most people's, you know, not absolutely everything because, you know, you can't know everything, but I can refute most arguments against this particular theory. Are you the main pioneer of the switch theory? Certainly one of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. I mean, I've been doing this for, you know, 14, 15 years, something like that. I've been looking into it. So yeah. When I first started talking about it, it was really new. Nobody knew anything about it. And it was like really shocking to most people. Whereas it's kind of become, it's passed into kind of folklore now, this story, hasn't it? You know, whereas most people are kind of aware of it. They might not be aware of the details, but they know that there is a conspiracy theory that Titanic was switched. So yeah. But back in the day, it never was. [Speaker 2] (1:17:59 - 1:18:20) That wasn't the case. Yeah. I would say most people, when they bring up the conspiracy, the Titanic, they just talk about the Federal Reserve, you know, the next level is getting into the sister ship Olympic and the switch out, you know, which is fascinating to me. And you bring up so many things, even when I watched your presentation, you did that make sense from a rational standpoint. [Speaker 1] (1:18:22 - 1:18:22) Yeah. [Speaker 3] (1:18:22 - 1:18:33) Is it true that 14 years before the incident, there's a book written about a Titanic ship hitting an iceberg in the North Atlantic and going down? [Speaker 1] (1:18:34 - 1:19:31) Yeah. The book was a novel written by a guy called Morgan Robertson. And it was called The Wreck of the Titan. And the Titan was almost exactly comparable to Titanic in terms of size, et cetera, number of passengers, et cetera, et cetera. And it's about the ship that hits an iceberg and goes down and it was called the Titan. Yeah. So I actually wonder what the connection is. It's too much of a coincidence. There's got to be some connection, but I can't quite get my head around what that might be. You know, did they call it Titanic deliberately? But then again, at the time when Titanic was conceived, the idea of Titanic and Olympic, they didn't know. I don't think they did. I don't think they knew that this incident was going to occur. So, yeah, it's a strange anomaly. But yeah, it's very interesting. [Speaker 3] (1:19:32 - 1:19:46) Yeah. It's very interesting how, like, even sometimes fiction can play itself out in reality. And there's just these anomalies that exist within whatever the experience is that come to fruition. It's like, what is this? What is going on? [Speaker 2] (1:19:46 - 1:19:54) It's like all the jokes in the conspiracy world, how the Simpsons predict everything that's going to happen, you know? I mean, who knows? It's fascinating though. [Speaker 1] (1:19:55 - 1:19:58) Yeah, predictive programming, isn't it? Predictive programming. [Speaker 2] (1:19:58 - 1:20:01) Whether it's conscious or there's something else at play. [Speaker 1] (1:20:01 - 1:20:20) Yeah, absolutely. I do wonder this, you know. I have this glib statement that I come out with from time to time and I say, I don't believe in coincidences. And I don't, you know, generally speaking, because I think a lot of them are contrived. You know, so who knows in this case. [Speaker 2] (1:20:20 - 1:20:27) Is this the main, obviously you've done a lot of research, is this the main topic that you get invited to do a lot of talks on? [Speaker 1] (1:20:28 - 1:20:51) It was original, but you know, I think since I've written many more books now, since the Titanic books, I do get asked to speak on lots of different topics. It's just coincidence that it happened to be last night was one of the ones. But I haven't actually given that talk for quite a few months. And that was the first time last night. So it's kind of a coincidence, really. I don't believe in coincidences. [Speaker 2] (1:20:51 - 1:21:31) Nice little warmup. I'm grateful to whoever invited you. It was a nice little warmup. Well, because even when I saw this presentation you did that was on YouTube, it was from a while ago. So I was curious. I think Joel and I have been talking at some point like, oh, I really want to do an episode on the Titanic, but I don't know who. And then I went on searching online and I'm really grateful. And I also love that you're from England too. It's like just adds a different, like it was some American researcher talking about the Titanic. It'd be fine, but there's just something about you being from there that adds to it. [Speaker 1] (1:21:32 - 1:21:49) Yeah. Great. Yeah. Yeah. No, it is a fascinating topic. And it's like I said at the very beginning, it's a subject that's always held kind of fascination for me. And I don't know why. I think it's just like I said, it's got every element of what constitutes a good story, hasn't it? [Speaker 3] (1:21:50 - 1:21:53) Maybe in a past life, you were a passenger on the Titanic, John. [Speaker 1] (1:21:54 - 1:21:57) Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe I was Captain Smith. [Speaker 3] (1:21:57 - 1:22:07) Maybe you were Captain Smith. Silent Smith. Silent Smith. Yeah. Maybe you were JP Morgan and now you're coming to clear conscience. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:22:08 - 1:22:10) Absolutely. You never know, do you? You never know. [Speaker 2] (1:22:11 - 1:22:27) No, no. Man, what a pleasure to have you join us. Really enjoyed this conversation. And for most of all, just for anyone who's listening who hadn't heard this specific story, I feel like people are going to get really excited by it and hopefully explore it. [Speaker 1] (1:22:27 - 1:22:45) I hope so. And there's definitely much, much more to it than meets the eye. Yes. I'm not saying that I've got all the answers. I don't. No one does. But, you know, it's... Where there's smoke, there's fire. That's for sure. Yeah, exactly that. Exactly that. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:22:45 - 1:23:07) And everything that we're about with this show, I mean, yes, we definitely focus on a lot of personal development stuff, but we love engaging in different subjects and we cover a wide range of issues. It's just like, what kind of mind is open and active to explore these things? And these are the types of conversations we like having, whether it's exploring truth in the external world and events and things that are going on or as an individual and as a human being. [Speaker 1] (1:23:08 - 1:23:16) Yeah. Well, if you ever want me back on to talk about any other aspects of my work, then feel free. I'm delighted to come back on anytime you want me. [Speaker 2] (1:23:16 - 1:23:27) Yeah, yeah, for sure. Real quickly, is there a few little other, I guess, subjects that you would say that you have a certain level of expertise exploring and researching? [Speaker 1] (1:23:27 - 1:24:43) Yeah, I mean, lots. I don't know whether you've actually seen any of my other books, but I've written eight books in total. I've got a ninth in the pipeline. I wrote a book called The Falsification of History. The two Titanic books. Wrote a book called Behind the Curtain, which is an exposé of the new world order. JFK. I'm big on JFK. I wrote a book called JFK, A Very British Coup, which maintains that the actual assassination was a British plot. And I present plenty of evidence for that. So your American listeners may be interested in that different take on that. Also wrote a book called The Falsification of Science, which is kind of a sister book to The Falsification of History. Each of those two falsification books, I go into a lot of different incidents and explain how it was falsified and why. And then my latest book, apart from the one that is in the pipeline at the moment, is called Welcome to the Masquerade, which I wrote with my American friend, Shannon Rowan. And that was exposing the COVID myth. Awesome. [Speaker 2] (1:24:43 - 1:24:45) Yeah, we've explored a bunch of that. [Speaker 1] (1:24:45 - 1:24:50) Yeah. So yeah, I mean, there's lots and lots of different topics there. [Speaker 3] (1:24:50 - 1:24:56) Awesome, John. Do you get into the Diana conspiracy much? I know you mentioned that was a kind of interesting one for you. [Speaker 1] (1:24:57 - 1:25:06) Yeah, definitely. I mean, that's... I've done a very in-depth analysis of all that in Falsification of History. Awesome. Cool. [Speaker 3] (1:25:07 - 1:25:17) John, thank you so much for your time. How can our listeners best support you? Website, whether it's purchasing your books through Amazon, whatever it might be, let us know. [Speaker 1] (1:25:17 - 1:26:17) Yeah, well, if you're in the UK, which I guess there aren't going to be too many UK listeners, I don't know. But then you can purchase signed copies of my book direct from my website, which is falsificationofhistory.co.uk. Unfortunately, I cannot post abroad. So, because so many just go missing and it just costs an absolute fortune to replace them. But yeah, wherever you are in the world, you can go to your Amazon, local Amazon page. And if you key my name, John Hamer, into the search bar, you'll find my author page and all my books on there. I also have a BitChute channel, which is called John Hamer Official. Quite a few podcasts on there. And also on my website, there are hundreds of podcasts that I've done over the years. This one will be going on there as well as soon as I receive the link to it. Great. So yeah, lots and lots of places. Amazing. [Speaker 2] (1:26:17 - 1:26:25) We'll have the links listed in our show notes. Yeah. And yeah, really, really grateful for you coming on and sharing your support with us. [Speaker 1] (1:26:25 - 1:26:30) It's been my pleasure. Thank you. Yeah, nice to meet you guys. And we'll do it again sometime. [Speaker 3] (1:26:31 - 1:27:19) Sounds good. Everyone else, thank you for listening. Take care. That was dope. Love getting deep, love putting that tinfoil hat on that I wear with the utmost pride. I love that we get to broach so many diverse topics. And I love that what we create in the conversations that we have, I just feel like a reflective of the listeners that we're compiling here on this platform as well. Getting deep into personal growth and also into conspiracy, of which there is absolutely no doubt. There is a huge conspiracy going on on this particular topic. John's done great work researching and delving out and fleshing out the different things around this issue. But the way that we're fucking lied to, with just such abrasiveness, it's wild. [Speaker 2] (1:27:19 - 1:28:14) And again, this is the power of the media. But even back then, newspapers and other things, when he brings up the whole idea of people being threatened, people often will be like, well, how do you keep something so private? And it's like, you just need a handful of people that are threatened, that can't afford to lose their livelihood. And again, like he said, people have short-term memory. Okay, life goes on. This is what the story was. This is what happened. But it's amazing. I always appreciate, especially when we approach these kinds of topics, having conversations with someone that has obviously done a thorough level of research, and is a sincere truth seeker, and a grounded truth seeker, and is rational. Because as we all know, we come across people that just sound insane when they talk about the things, and then they don't have rational theories. [Speaker 3] (1:28:15 - 1:28:23) They don't have room for nuance. It's very black and white. I have the truth. This is the only answer. There's no room for anything else. [Speaker 2] (1:28:24 - 1:29:01) And even John, when he was saying this, he said, listen, I don't know 100% for sure, but I'm highlighting these anomalies. I'm highlighting these things that just, they don't make sense. And so, it's up to each individual, the listener, to go, huh, is there any merit to this? What happens if I were to go and look into this more deeply? Don't take our word for it. Don't take John's word for it. If this piques your interest, then explore it further, you know? But it's just another example of, again, like you mentioned, Joel, man, like, we're lied over, lied to over, and over, and over again. And so, you just gotta keep your head on straight. [Speaker 3] (1:29:02 - 1:29:34) Yeah. Something within me is curious. I feel like there might be something suspicious with, like, James Cameron as well. Yeah. I mean, you know, he's big time, big time Hollywood. Yeah. You know, like, the fact that this was the highest selling movie of all time, you know, it is something that's so embedded within the collective psyche, like the conversations he would have had, you know, around visiting the wreckage and things like that. But yeah, I don't know enough to talk firmly on it, but there's a little light bulb going off for me on that. [Speaker 2] (1:29:35 - 1:29:57) Yeah, I was just looking something up. Well, it's actually his second, his Avatar is the highest grossing movie of all time, but Titanic I think was at a time. But it's interesting that he's the director and filmmaker of that as well. Yeah. I mean, of course, I would love to be able to know the truth, like, why did you do this movie? Why this specifically? [Speaker 3] (1:29:57 - 1:29:58) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:29:59 - 1:30:22) I mean, I love the movie personally. I enjoyed it just from a storytelling standpoint. Like, I still have memories of watching it in the theater with, like, I mentioned the episode with my girlfriend and I was like crying during the episode, you know, I think I was a senior in high school because it was an epic movie, you know, it had a beautiful story. But, you know, again, based on a lie. Oh, well, I guess a lot of movies are based on lies, they're fiction. [Speaker 3] (1:30:22 - 1:31:36) Yeah, exactly. Anyway, nice to question it. That's for sure. Guys, thank you so much for listening. Thank you for being here. Thank you for connecting with what we do. We opened and launched a free community for our listeners to connect. And even if you're not like an avid listener, if this is your first time hearing this podcast, you're more than welcome to join us over at Skool as well. So, to join our free community, you can head to skool.com, S-K-O-O-L.com forward slash here for the truth. And you can join there and join the discussion around this episode. I'm going to start building in some amazing resources to, you know, really connect you to deeper inspiration, deeper purpose in your life, which ultimately is the ethos of what we're about, you know, being here for the truth within oneself. Why do you exist? What are you into? What lights you up? What is the thing that transcends you that wants to be unfolded from within you during this experience? And that's what I love to get into as well. So, come to Skool, join the free community and connect. Much love. Transcribed by https://otter.ai