Lubomir Arsov A Modern Odyssey

[Speaker 1] (0:00 - 2:53) Everybody, welcome back to the Here for the Truth podcast. I hope you guys are doing well. So good to be able to have this conversation that we just had with the great Lyubomir Arsov. If you aren't familiar with his work, he's the director and animator and creator behind 2017 short animated film In Shadow, A Modern Odyssey, and more recently Kingdom. These are incredibly powerful and impactful short films, which if you haven't seen, I highly recommend that you do. They're almost like open-eyed meditations in and of themselves, just watching those videos. So definitely, definitely check those out. I think you're going to get a lot of value from this conversation. If you're down, hereforthetruth.com is a home base for a lot of awesome material. And we actually have two quizzes, which we've created, which are available there. One is the RelayF test, which really is a litmus test for how authentic that you're showing up, how authentically you're showing up in your life. And I think the feedback that can be gained from that quiz can really be used as a powerful mirror just to be like, all right, where do I need to show up? And how can I step up in a greater degree? Because really at the base of what we do and what's energizing our own motivations in this podcast and in our work is showing up more authentically. Because what else are you here for? What else are you here to do? And I think it's really important at times in our lives for all of us to just zoom out and have the experience of what is this? What is happening right now? What is going on? The primordial question of who am I and why am I here? And for those that have listened to our podcast for a long time, I think you're fully aware that deep down, we feel that every single human being on this planet has a unique purpose, has a unique reason, has a unique way of being, has a unique way of interfacing with reality and with others around them. And that's what we're about. That's how this conversation started way back on Episode 1 with Walking the Authentic Path. That is the motivating energy behind our program, Rise Above the Herd, our 10-week journey, which currently is in progress. And you can go join the waitlist at riseabovetheherd.co if you feel called. But yeah, I just want to leave you with that contemplation. So just remember, you're here for a reason. And we hope to remind you through our work, through our conversations, and through the resources available on our website, in our communities, and in our group coaching programs. Please enjoy this conversation. [Speaker 2] (2:54 - 3:01) You are now listening to the Year for the Truth podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Yerasimos. [Speaker 1] (3:04 - 33:45) All right, everybody. We have an incredible guest with us here today, Lyubomir Arsov. His personal work explores the psychological, parapolitical, and spiritual dynamics that define the momentous time of transition we are collectively navigating. In 2017, he released his first award-winning animated film, In Shadow, A Modern Odyssey, exploring the fragmented unconscious of our times, followed by the 2024 release of Kingdom, a visceral audiovisual experience which maps out the initiatory path of empowerment. Professionally, he's worked in various phases of production and IP development for both major and boutique animation studios, and a variety of film and TV projects for clients like Netflix, Warner Brothers, Blue Sky, Mattel, Disney, and among others. His latest project includes directing The Reimagined He-Man and The Masters of the Universe, and writing and directing the dystopian sci-fi short The Forest King. Lyubomir is known for a with mainstream appeal and excels in crafting narratives that condense complex ideas into accessible and entertaining experiences. His artistic mission is to convey with clarity and reverence the sacred depth of the inner self and reveal the forces which seek to thwart it. I absolutely love it, man. I came across your work, I think 2018 or 2019, in Shadow's search for powerful short film, and especially for the time in which it was made, because you tapped into a lot of things that only recently are coming deeper into the mainstream consciousness, I guess, that we can say. But such a pleasure to have you here, man. Thanks for being here. Thank you, brother. Thank you guys for having me on. Really looking forward to diving in and seeing where the conversation takes us. Yeah, me too. Absolutely, man. One way we always like to kick this off with first-time guests is we really want to dive deep into your personal hero's journey, actually. What kind of led you down this path? What are the things that I guess most impacted and influenced your psychological and spiritual development? Because your work is obviously so deep. It's intense. It's powerful. So even some of the major catalyzing rites of passage in your life that I guess led you down this way. Yeah, well, I've always had a curiosity about... There's been a philosophical inclination in asking questions of existence itself, kind of a metaphysical, ontological curiosity. But things got a little bit more serious when my reality got recontextualized through plant medicines and looking into shamanic realms in the mid-2000s. And from there, some things just got a little shaken up enough so that I could move through my usual, sort of like the regular lens of reality that I was looking through and start looking at things more deeply. And also, of course, the ever-present, I think most people can agree, relate to this. It's the ever-present metaphysical, sort of like existential angst, and even emotional and psychological pain and discomfort that we all carry to various degrees. And for me particularly, that led to a lot of questions in terms of seeking what greater reality is, what the meaning of life is, and why am I suffering in my own particular way. So that ultimately led into being awoken to the geopolitical situation and the parapolitical situation of how this reality is actually structured, you know, how resources are partitioned, how incentives are created, and ultimately the narratives that we live according to, which, you know, when I was younger, I just took for granted, are actually largely manufactured and co-manufactured by us, those who also suffer from them. Yeah. Lumier, I'm curious. You had mentioned, obviously, you always had this curiosity about life and a philosophical bent. Were your parents anything like this? I'm curious, like, if this was just something that, like, uniquely sprung from you, or, like, you had some influences in early on? Well, so, I'm Bulgarian, and my parents grew up in Communist Bulgaria. So, they were quite aware of the limitations of communism, the, you know, the inability to speak freely, and everything else that came with that political climate. So, growing up in Bulgaria, 1989 is when communism fell in the East Bloc. And before we immigrated to Canada, which was 1994, that kind of skepticism of authority that was present in my family rubbed off on me. In addition to Bulgaria, parts of Bulgaria are quite mystical, spiritually oriented, and there's a great heritage of, you know, our mountains and a lot of our folk traditions, wisdom, healing. And some of that started coming through and awakening a lot more in the collective awareness of the Bulgarians after communism fell. And as you know, communists or any authoritarian dictates sort of closed down any of the organic heritage of humanity and cut down any of the wisdom and, you know, actual real true spiritual self-awareness. And in that process after communism, some things happened with my family, some very interesting, um, I would say spiritual things that really snapped the whole family out of our more materialistic lens of life. Nice. Thank you. We're neighbors. My parents are born and raised in Greece. Right on. I still have to visit. Yes. I've never been to Bulgaria. Do you still go back often or do you have to come back? I do occasionally visit. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think, um, so coming from, I guess, a country with a communist bent and then finding yourself in the West, particularly, I guess, in 94, 95, do you think that gave you a unique lens as to kind of what was beginning to encroach in Canada and in America and in some countries in the West? Like, would you say that you probably sensed that a little bit earlier? Yeah, absolutely. Uh, and are you asking particularly about my family or myself or you? Yeah. Yeah. I think there was there. Yeah, definitely. There has been a bit more of a skepticism and perhaps a healthy amount of paranoia in terms of COVID for sure. But I had already done my, you know, I had gone through at least 10 years of my own research, my own awakening and my own tracking of the movements of, of, um, this greater centralizing force that has been, uh, creeping up on humanity overall. So, um, when Carmen, when, when COVID hit, it was apparent that something was not right. And, um, you know, if, if I were to add some color commentary here and beyond the, you know, so just common sense and, um, being rooted and grounded in reality, you know, especially, let's say just for us as men, we have a responsibility and, and, um, a task to kind of see things clearly and respond to them clearly, uh, actively and responsibly. And so of course that happened during COVID because things didn't make sense. And because, um, I've untethered myself somewhat from authority structures of authority, I source a lot of, uh, my sense-making from myself, but also on our, I would say on a deeper spiritual intuitive level, it did feel like something bigger and darker was coming. It felt like a cloud, a dense fog was moving in. And I felt that right on New Year's Eve of 19, uh, 2019 and 2020, I thought, um, you know, I was, we were in Toronto at that time and I, I thought it was going to be something else. I thought I was, you know, at that point tracking demographic warfare and a is utilizing at this time. And I thought Toronto would be having a lot of, uh, issues with that, you know, tracking a lot more gang violence and, um, you know, a lot of the discord that comes with the destabilization of, of a nation, but it actually turned out to be something unexpected. And I think that's how reality always is. Right. And COVID came about, but yeah. And throughout, you know, which is why I assume you guys have both seen my last film Kingdom. Part of Kingdom was also, um, really translating parts of what I felt, which is this, this, um, coming down of, and it's not necessarily a possession, but something that started, I started feeling it, it started seeping into people started knocking on my door and slightly like trying to peer within my body system. My, um, and it was something that just wanted to, yeah, it was just moving through people as a wet blanket. Yeah. Yeah. It's what's, what's so like interesting is like within shadow, which is 2017, like you kind of preempted a lot of what COVID was, you know, um, even like, I think as, as an artist highlighting vaccine dangers in, in shadow is incredibly courageous in 2017, because the topic of vaccines in themselves was completely taboo pre 2020, pre 2021. Like, you know, you could barely say the V word without being completely ostracized and stereotyped in a, in a, in a certain way, but you, you hit on the masking, you hit on the, the, the authoritarian dynamic mixed in with pharmaceuticals in there and all the rest of it. So like, if kind of feels like you would definitely tapped into something that was about to present itself in a, in a deeper and darker way, even back then. Yeah. Well, as I was mapping out my understanding of the world and, you know, having that paranoid, you know, mean thing of like all the strings attached to all the photos and articles, like that was of course, part of it, the pharmaceutical cartel is part of this great destabilizing force. Yes, it's for profit and, uh, you know, more maliciously, we could say that it's also for weakening, uh, human beings by and large, by and large, but I was already tracking that. So of course I was going to put that in the tapestry I was presenting of in shadow. Um, and yeah, people see it as have, have seen that as prophetic and maybe in some ways it was, I think maybe in shadow was prophetic in a way that I was anticipating, uh, a gradual deconstruction and a collapse of regular meanings that we were ascribing to society, to the world that, uh, all the maps of meaning we're going to start collapsing and that we had to renew them and including those maps, uh, in addition to those maps of meaning, it was going to be our own egoic structures, our own masks and personalities, which were just not going to be functional anymore to keep us satisfied or sane. Um, yeah. Yeah. Cause the, the, the biggest thing that hits me in watching in shadow is just the, the undeniable pitfalls of the inauthentic path and where the inauthentic path is leading individuals and the collective and that almost, it's almost like a spirit or the divine or life in itself was not going to tolerate that and any further. And I think more and more ever since like that 2020 kind of shift, it's like people realize that the truth is the highest path, but there's no choice but to choose authenticity because the costs of looking the other way are really dire, you know? Yeah. It almost felt like 2020. I mean, I look back in hindsight, but even then, like it, it had to happen. Like why argue with reality? Like it's something that occurred, something that happened in order for all this to come forth. Yeah, I agree. It was, it was a necessary thing and kind of a blessing as well. I think we all needed it, uh, just to see the extent to which we're all captive in this whole collective system because like everyone participated in it. Everyone, I wouldn't say there were victims and victors and abusers. I mean, in a way, yes, when we start breaking it down, that is true, but also from a zoomed out perspective, it takes all of us to participate in this drama and, um, it, it diagnosed the collective state of consciousness, which we needed. It really diagnosed it. There was a litmus test of, you know, our just collective intelligence. Yeah, for sure. I really, um, love the conversations in 2020 that I had with people that came from communist countries because they were the ones that just sniffed it from the start. I mean, I didn't come from a communist country and I sniffed it from the start. So there's other reasons there, but still like, it's really fascinating to see how they just, they can sense what was happening because they had seen it before. Yeah, for sure. And I mean, you know, it's your, your story reminds me a little bit of, you know, one of my biggest philosophical influences is Ayn Rand, you know, coming from Soviet Russia. And then, you know, she saw what was the seeds that were being planted in the West immediately. And she imbued that philosophy into her stories, into her art, into her fiction as well. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. I've, I've read both the Fountainhead and, um, and also Anthem I've read. I think she has some other books, maybe not novels, but yeah, she's definitely a big, big influence, but yeah, it's beautiful. Like Ayn Rand actually, just like Dostoevsky, uh, another Russian writer. Um, those have been big influences on me because they were people, there were human beings who put their finger on the pulse of the current situation. They felt themselves deeply and what really mattered to them. And then, um, basically used all their artistic, creative, and personal power to put it in these works so that it can contribute to humanity. And, um, yeah, Ayn Rand like, yeah, huge figure. Yeah, man. And it's like, in many ways, these, these great works of art, you know, that are, that are imbued with an important philosophical and psychological, psychological message are like the most important milestones, you know, for, for humanity when they come along. And man, today I've got to say like, you, you were definitely one of those artists for sure, because there's no doubt the seeds that you're planting through your works have the huge ripple effects and impacts. I want to backtrack a little bit. Like when did you start to consider the creative path as a, as a career for yourself? How was, I guess, your creative path? How did that unfold? And even like visually and filmmaking, like how did it come to be where it's like, Oh, I'm a storyteller. I'm a filmmaker. This is what I'm doing. Yeah. So I think looking back, I could definitely track it more to a soul path. And I say that with more confidence now, just because I've collected more data, but, uh, I just had an incredible visceral reaction to seeing animation cells and traditional Disney animation when I was a child. Uh, that means like seeing actual drawings move. So something about that magic, like really inspired and excited me. And then later on, it was comic books, films, movies, and any moments of, um, you know, I love all cinema, but something about drama and sweeping epics that would, uh, reach and reach almost like the sublime, um, really resonated with me, infused me with some sort of calling. And so I had no plan B, uh, after high school, I just went straight into animation. I didn't even get into the school that I wanted to, but I pursued that. And, uh, it was always just this feeling of wanting to create meaningful storytelling, meaningful moments. It's as simple as that. And then that translated into, uh, my view of reality, my general curiosity about human nature, about myself, about, um, the makeup of societies. And, um, the next logical step was infusing that interest that I had, my observational skills and ability to synthesize meaning out of observation into my craft, which is, uh, the craft of storytelling. And, uh, that fire still burns in me, uh, except the difference now is the stories that I want to tell, uh, require a lot more resources and manpower. And, you know, of course that's, it's possible to achieve. Um, it's just that my previous personal work I did simply because it could not have been made if I had asked permission of anyone. And so, uh, it's a, it's a point of, um, yeah, it's a point of some pride that I actually carried through with these pieces. Looking back, I don't even know how I did them, how they happen. And of course the allies and all the people that helped me with them, but I'm glad that I did. I love it. Um, as someone who trained as an actor for about a decade and is in that storytelling world, I'm not anymore. I'm curious, like, what are some of these movies that like really impacted you as a kid, like animated movies and some of these epics that you talked about? Man. So, you know, I'm, I'm so bad with like lists of favorites. Um, I need to, I need to come up with some sort of spreadsheet. So I have like answers, but I will, I will shoot out like, yeah. So I like from cinema, I like anything from, uh, like older, kind of more fringe European stuff. Like, um, you know, Jacques-Luc Godard and a lot of the kind of new wave stuff to all the, like a lot of the Hollywood epics, you know, so a lot of the big fields, uh, what it's interesting I've tracked, like I used to pride myself on having an eccentric cinema taste, but at the same time, my, my orientation, and I think I know why is to make deep, but widely accessible pieces. So, you know, I, of course, reacted strongly to things like Braveheart and Gladiator. And it's like, you know, Braveheart is kind of like an anthem for our generation on so many points of just like strength, like honor, duty, uh, brotherhood and, uh, overcoming like real hardship, like romance, you know, all that stuff. Uh, Fight Club affected me immensely actually in 1999, I was in grade 11 and I saw it multiple times in the theater and yes, David Fincher, great director, you know, great act, like just the whole piece was done, made really well, but something about it triggered my, uh, still developing not yet complete, um, desire and direction to be antithetical and to, to really challenge the status quo. And that movie was definitely a visceral, you know, punch to the gut to a lot of teenage boys, men in their early twenties being like, you know, we were ending the nineties, there's modernity, there's the MTV gen, you know, generation, especially in North America, we still had, you know, suburbs, like it was cool. It was nothing was really that bad, except that it seems, seemed like meaning was not like people were sort of dying, uh, due to a lack of meaning and modernity was reaching its very end. Right. And so Fight Club made a big statement about that. Yeah. Same here for me. I was, it was my first year of university, um, in Boston when that came out. Uh, and I, I, I feel similarly in that, in that regards. And when you mentioned the two epics or mentioned a great epics, like the first two movies that came to mind were Braveheart and Gladiator immediately. So, I mean, those movies had a huge impact, uh, on me, uh, in my life and even in my journey. So, you know, I really, uh, I really appreciate that. Yeah. But let me, let me just drop a few other things like, uh, man, there's so many, I mean, cinema, we could have, we could have an entire podcast on cinema and movies. Yeah. Yeah. But even like, I just want to honor some of the, you know, animated films, like, you know, for good or bad, um, Disney, of course, the Disney legacy of just creating these stories and, and, and there's just, just the magic to the classical films and Pinocchio for me, a lot of my friends know me as the Pinocchio guy, because like everything I do, even I directed this other short called The Forest King and it's about digital puppets. There's something about puppets, uh, that has stayed with me and, you know, that journey of, uh, becoming a real human from puppet on strings is a fascinating one. And in a Westworld, uh, for instance, a TV show, it did something similar puppets in this case, where the cyborgs programmed lifelike, um, the robots that finally find consciousness. And that's just so analogous to our journey here on, uh, on earth. Um, so yeah, anyway, I'll leave it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that, man. I mean, that makes a lot of sense in retrospect now, you know, knowing, knowing some of your work and I guess in general today, what we would call the NPC, you know, I guess can be the modern day puppet, like the human being who hasn't accessed their own will, who doesn't know themselves, who's every thought, action and behavior is purely programmed to condition by, you know, culture, religion, family, whatever it might be, you know, and that process of shedding those layers, cutting the strings and discovering that they themselves is becoming the real boy, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I have, I, I feel some sadness cause this, this is, um, it's an episode of something that I directed, uh, and it's not widely seen just cause it's not on YouTube. It's called the forest king. And that's exactly, I wrote and directed it during COVID and, um, in it, like we have NPCs in a VR virtual reality game in which a boy has to basically imitate, um, the various things that the NPCs do in order to get a social credit score. Um, so very much what you're saying, actually I wrote another piece. It's basically elucidating just that cause it, you're right. The NPC is, is the puppet and we all have a little bit of NPC and a little bit of puppet in us and we're trying to shine light on that and emancipate ourselves. And that's kind of a, the beautiful journey here. Yeah. It's, it's a never ending process really. I mean, you know, work is never done in that regard. Lumir, obviously you've worked, you know, in, in maybe mainstream institutions or establishments. I mean, the movies that you are, the animated shorts that we've talked about that you've made challenged the status quo. Like what's been some of the feedback from people in your world that have seen it or are they not aware? Do you have like separate lives where you, where you work, work for Netflix and then you, you're, you have like this underground where you make these movies that, uh, go against the system. Yeah, it's exactly that. I think I mentioned elsewhere, I wish I had some juicy conspiratorial stories of being like brought to a back room and punched in the left eye or something, whatever they do, you know? And, um, no, but it's more like quiet, like silence. Yeah. I don't think a lot of my peers get what I've been doing. Um, I think the best I've received is like, Oh, it's a capitalist critique. And it's like, Oh yeah. And somewhere you could say that, but really it's, it's, it's a lot more. And, um, that's, that's totally fine. You know, I, I, um, some people have, have reached out, some people have communicated with me and some opportunities have opened from, uh, people who know what's up in the industry and Hollywood and, uh, they themselves walk a tight rope, but that's changing. That will change. And I believe new storytellers are coming up and, uh, storytelling will be democratized for good or bad. Um, and, and, uh, yeah, I think good, good things will be coming as everything gets restructured, right. Like in entertainment and, you know, God willing medicine, government, all that stuff. We'll see. I mean, I think, I think it's happening to you. I think, you know, I mean, the fact that again, not to get too political, but just even the idea that one candidate spent millions upon millions upon millions of dollars hiring celebrities, you know, to, to, to promote and advocate for, and a much of the population just does not care anymore what celebrities think, you know? So I think like certain, um, you know, I feel like the veil is, is, is falling away. And I think people look just, they don't, they don't put as much emphasis on, on Hollywood, like maybe in the past. Yeah, they don't. And yeah, it's, it's really cool to see the fatigue from general mainstream culture and the way that it's culture has been curated and how that is collapsing. Um, yeah, we're seeing it in real time and also, you know, RFK is nomination. We'll see what that actually means. But so far it's like, Whoa, that's amazing. Uh, this man can, um, can do so much. Just the fact that there is, that that is happening means I think in the collective we're allowing, there's enough consciousness here that we're allowing space within the field for something like that to occur. So, so yeah, I agree. I agree with you there. I mean, it's easy for many people to be like, whatever, you know, RFK is controlled opposition or all these people are controlled opposition. Like they don't have faith that like organic change can happen. You know, the fact that, you know, five years ago, the, or the idea that someone like RFK Jr could be at the highest position in the U S government around health, you would be laughed at. Yeah. Yeah. That's someone you can say is that even though he wouldn't call himself that an anti-vaxxer is leading the charge for the U S government. Like that, that's kind of mind blowing to me. Yeah. I think unfortunately, like it's so interesting this whole journey, even the alternative scene, which now is becoming more of the mainstream scene. Right. So we used to be the alternative holding certain views of reality and knocking on everyone's door being like, Hey, open your eyes wider, look at it from this perspective. This is not what it actually is. As we're onboarding more and more people, we're also seeing a lot, like there's a lot of work to be done in, in, in our sphere as well, because there's this chronic negativity and an inability to envision something that is good. Right. And that's the negativity bias that is very easy to just coast on. And I think we all know what that's because it doesn't take too much effort. Uh, you don't need any conviction and there's no real skin in the game because you can always write off any failure in the world or anything around you and be like, see, ultimately it doesn't matter. But, and I get that. And so people also have to play it safe. Also now that more and more people are online, you know, I understand that of course, as a creator and needing to get budgets and work and other things, I get what it's like, we have to be careful in how we express certain things as they're unfolding. So there's that, but a lot of it also is people don't actually, and this may be a trauma response, but I, I can see it in myself. We don't actually have the ability to map out a positive outcome for anything in our lives because we're used to so much disappointment and we're very careful not to be disappointed yet again, like we have been since the beginning of our lives. And many of us live in this chronic shutdown and doubt and, and in a way, envy of any light outside of us, even though we may purport to we're working for the light and want to awaken people. So yeah, there's just a lot of work to be done. And I think here there's a reason to be hopeful and not to throw out the baby out with the bathwater. A sign of a mature mind of a mature human is the ability to hold multiple perspectives at the same time and just hold them. Like we don't have to even believe them or accept them. It's like, we're holding them. We're drawing more data and we're making certain conclusions, but we're also, as creators, we have the ability to actually have a vision of what could be and not fully commit to it, but just be like, that could also happen. And, and that is a, that is a power. That is a strength. That is a sign of character that we can do that. Yeah. Leave it at that. Yeah. You're speaking our language, man. You know, even just the ability to stand in between and have a healthy, detached awareness of like, again, different options, you know, what's going on without getting emotionally hijacked, you know, and it takes so much. It takes a healthy mind. It takes a healthy body health. It takes a regulated nervous system to be able to even take this in and to, to consider without jumping to conclusions. And it's a journey. I'm not perfect, you know, by any means, but you know, I'm, I keep working towards that. Keep checking my, and you, and you hit, you hit the nail on the head with data. It's like, can you allow more data in and consider it? And I think most people, it's like the first thing they hear, they jump on that. This is it. This is the truth. This is what I believe, or their favorite influencer does a new post. And it's like, okay, now this is what's really happening, but can you take a step back and just chill and live in uncertainty? Why do you have to like carry the sword of, I know I'm certain this is what's going on as opposed to like, I don't know. There are a lot of curious things happening in the world in different situations on many different levels. And do I have the capacity to be in that, I guess, vulnerable state of like not knowing. Yeah, very well said. Exactly. And I can, you know, now, because we're much more programmed and we program ourselves into the dopamine hits that we get from social media, from scrolling, you know, whether it's Telegram, Twitter, Instagram, it's a lot more difficult for a lot of us to sit down, create space. And within that space to hear our own voice and then allow within that space, as you said, the data, the information, the opinions, the beliefs to just land for us to hold them. But when we don't have that space, we receive the thing and it vibrates so quickly within this like little spectrum of existence that we have. And it just, it agitates us. Right. And it creates all these stressful reactions. And so with the oncoming, you know, with AI and a lot of other more sophisticated manipulation techniques, one of the greatest tools and one of the shortcuts to real maturity and wisdom right now is truly creating that bandwidth of expanding, being able to go into stillness while there is agitation within our nervous system, while there's agitation in our chest, in our head, but really to hold that space and then to allow ourselves to really make real choices instead of be guided by even alternative clickbait, you know. [Speaker 2] (33:45 - 33:46) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (33:46 - 57:53) I mean, that's the work and that's why I think I really love, you know, your animated films is that you're highlighting the inner work that needs to be done. We can get so lost in the external world and yet there's this universe within us and there's so many things we have to navigate and explore and consider, you know, how we were raised, the things that we went through, the programming that is there, you know, what is the state of our emotional life? I mean, I just think like the gaze needs to be put more inwards instead of getting lost in the cacophony of noises and distractions out there. Yeah. And I mean, widening that space was encapsulated so beautifully in a quote that we've shared so many times by Viktor Frankl, you know, between stimulus and response, there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom. And that's what liberation is, man. It's just, it's widening that gap. It's widening that space. Like we've said many times that we believe free will is a spectrum, you know, because your capacity to choose your direction, choose your response, choose your behaviors really is dependent on how much space you have created between stimulus and response. And the NPC, so to speak, it's extremely limited, that space. It's very automatic. Very automatic. Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree with that. Yeah. And you know, one thing that you guys were touching on previously with, you know, the quote unquote, ever-growing black pill community, where like it's difficult to see is difficult to see any hope. To me, that's just another emanation of the quote unquote NPC, you know? Yeah, totally. And it's actually doing the dark work for, for the same forces that black pillars are pointing to. Why? Because when we're black pilled, we are generating a vision of disempowerment and defeat, and then we're acting on it and we continue to amplify it by attaching extreme emotions to it and trying to convince other people that that's how it's going to be. So in a way, what's the point of even doing anything at that point? Like, Gary, man, can you dive into a little bit, like your own personal creative process? Like, how do these things unfold to you? Like inspiration strikes, the muse visits, you know, like you start pulling that thread. Like, what's that? What's that like for you? And even how do you create? Like, I'm not like a tech, technological person. So like, I watch what you create. I'm like, how the hell do you do that? Yeah. To be honest, on the technical side, I have some limited means at my disposal. So working with people, people better than me and greater teams, we create better things. But when I do independent things, you know, things are a bit rough around the edges. In much respect to Enshadow, I was helped by two great compositors, not to be confused with composers who basically put a lot of my art together and made it move. So, but yeah, in terms of the inspiration, it's, I smile and laugh because it's, it's a beautiful thing that I'm embracing more and more of, and I am appreciating those moments when the muse really strikes. And you guys could probably relate to that because we all have inspiration moving through us. And, you know, Joel, I just heard your last album, which is, which was excellent. And it's that, that feeling of inspiration that a lot of times I've just shelved for later and I'd come back later and it's gone. And, you know, as, as, as I mature, as a creator, as an artist, I've learned to more often than not drop what's happening and go with the muse. Of course, my life, you know, I don't want to be a negligent to anything important, but I do that because there's something very powerful to that. And then I can at least capture the signal with notes, drawings, and structure it so that when I come back to it, some of that essence is still alive. The energy is still alive that I can reawaken it, reignited, and I can start pulling more at the strings and then allowing more inspiration to come through. But for me, a lot of it has to do with music actually. So both in Shadow and Kingdom came through accompanied by a piece of music, a singular track for each piece. So in Shadow came through with a track by Carbon Based Lifeforms. They're, they're on ambient electronic duo from Sweden, very well-known masters in their craft. The song is called MOS6784, I think. It's a really, it's a dark ambient track that has a flair of hopeful, yet dark, yet progressively moving kind of way. And that song, I listened to it a hundred times while I wrote all the beats of In Shadow. And we also, of course, composed a really good track. A few guys here from Toronto, including DJ Dub, who's a friend of mine, composed a brilliant track. He also worked on Kingdom, but Kingdom came through with this one track. It's an epic track by Secession Studios. Greg Dombrowski on YouTube, he creates a lot of cinematic tracks. This one track is called Born a Legend. And I used to listen to it while directing He-Man, because when I directed He-Man, I'd read the screen, the scripts, and I'd break down each scene for my storyboard artists so that I knew what I wanted from each scene, what I wanted just for the acting, for whatever, just to launch them on that scene. And I would cut my animatics, which is the rough cut of the episodes to a lot of his music. And so that song really stood with me. I started working out to it. I started just getting pumped up to it. And during COVID, I would listen to that song and I'd get these images of just getting off your knees and raising the sword, the simplest, most direct symbol there is, which is a viscerally felt sense, getting up and standing like a real human, a rarity on this earth, a bipedal human on your feet. So music, I'm kind of going off on too many tangents now, but music is definitely one of the primal things because it has an emotional resonance and it holds me in that field. And within that field, I can just start exploring characters, scenes, situations, dynamics, and things come to me much more easily. Thank you so much for sharing that, man. I love so much hearing your process. And I'm the same with you. You have to honor the muse. You have to cultivate that relationship with her. And so when she comes, it's like, okay, you're now my priority. And I have to put myself in a position where I've captured that energy, I guess, in a detailed enough way where you're right. Then I can come back and revisit it and really extrapolate that to its full extent. But I mean, that's so pivotal. So many creators and many artists out there, they get inspiration, they start something, they lose motivation, they drop it, they turn to the next thing, etc. But I think there's really something to be said like following through, and you start something, you take it all the way, you get all the juice out of it. What can you say, I guess, to any creators or artists that might be listening in terms of following through with the process, sticking something out, even when the motivation wanes, etc. Taking it to the next step and getting a finished project on the other side. Yeah, well, like Steven Pressfield said, the club of those who have completed something and shipped it is a small, it's a small group of people, because it takes a lot of fortitude to get it all the way. And you have at all times, this adversarial force within you constantly sabotaging in the form of fatigue, despondency, doubt, loss of interest. And sometimes that's valid, because just the path we've picked or the project we've picked is not the right one. And we should probably know that in the first third of creation. But every single endeavor, like this seems to be the law. And thank God that we kind of collectively have realized that now is that we always reach roadblocks. And in fact, completing something and taking it all the way to the end is a spiritual endeavor. That means it's a path of personal initiation. And we are the only ones who are fully responsible for it. And we do it to really satisfy the honor of our own soul. So, you know, not to make it too heavy. But these are the facts of the matter, really, at a deeper level. If we want to truly complete something, I think we need to really tap into the big why of why we're doing it, and really see it as a spiritual journey that even if this thing has no real promise of succeeding, even if we may know that, I think there's a big responsibility to take it all the way through, because that in itself is a huge new milestone and a huge new baseline for our personal development. And in a way, in the universe, in this world, in this, you know, in this realm, we've just kind of like planted a flag and being like, I did something all the way. It's a good big thing. So, yeah. Thank you, man. Thank you so much for that. I agree with you, man. I've had goosebumps multiple times throughout this conversation, but it really is just like an exercise of the will, you know, the will of the soul, the will of the spirit, just to see something through, you know, to get that inspiration, and to bring it forth into material completion. Like you're right, that is a spiritual practice, a spiritual exercise. I think for many people, like when it's left unfinished, like, I think that is probably a common theme along that person's life in general, you know, like starting something, not finishing it, not seeing it through. And we need will, you know. And I think, particularly in this culture, in many ways, you know, it's like, we shy away from achievement. We shy away from the real embodied feeling of pride that comes on the other side of completing a project like that. Like, I love that pride, you know, I don't shy away from that. I don't diminish it. It's like, no, that's a bear. And it's like, that's really meaningful to me. And like, that encourages me onto the next thing as well. Yeah, I agree. And I just want to say for anyone that's in the creative process now, or will be entering it, every time I've completed a personal project, for now, it's been three major ones, about 70% in. I always feel that doubt. And like, the whole thing just does not work. It's going to be a failure. It's not coming together. And somehow the last 30% just come together once I push through. Yeah, exactly. Like, okay, when you're in the process, you know, what is success to you? Like, what do you envision success to be on the other side of a project? In terms of the project, well, success, I would say is accomplishing a good portion of the vision and the intention of the project is legible within the final product, that the transmission that was intended or was discovered along the way and adapted to, that happens often, is within the piece, because then we can be satisfied with knowing that our craft is strong enough that we can then translate some of those real impulses out into the audience. So that's kind of like, good. Now we can continue to sharpen those skills and we can move forward and make more. So that's one, one part of the success. Two is like we said, just completing it and finishing it. And that's a personal milestone. That's something we can, you know, go take a bath with and enjoy, just have a glass of wine just with ourselves and be like, yeah, man, you did it. Yeah. It's valid. And, and then of course, beyond that, this is not up to us. This is, you know, by the grace of God or the grace of the collective, it's the, there is that the art actually moves through people and does something that it's intended to do. It doesn't need to be profound. It could be just instilling joy or a spark of hope, or, you know, just creating a pleasant tingling sensation, whatever the art piece is, as long as it then actually transmits something to the people that it's meant for, then that is a success. So I would say those three things. Amazing, man. One thing I want to add in my personal process, you know, what I've found, you know, success for me is me on the other side, knowing that I didn't settle at any point along the way. Because early on in my earlier creations, when I was younger, et cetera, it's like, oh, it's good enough. You know, like the verse, the piano, the beat, the whatever, like, you know, it's like there would be an element of settling just to kind of get through. But especially now, I feel like as I've matured in my process, it's like, if I intuitively, instinctively know it's not as good as it can be, like, then I'm not settling anymore. And so with my latest album, Scorpio, like getting on the side, like that feeling of knowing I didn't settle at any point along the way, like every lyric is meaningful. Nothing's just a giveaway or a throwaway for me. That's when I was like, okay, you know, that feels like success to me. Huge. That's huge. Lubomir, I got two questions. Well, first off, I'm curious, once the muse first visited you, let's say for In Shadow or Kingdom, from that moment until the project gets finished, like how long did that take? That's my first question. For In Shadow. Yeah. So it's, it's difficult to quantify like date, but if I was working on it full-time, which I wasn't, but I worked on the visuals, the planning and all that stuff. Cause I drew everything myself in about one year and that it took two extra years to get the help that I needed to put it all together with, with some of the other guys, because we really had no budget. And so In Shadow took three years, even though the idea, the fresh idea for In Shadow came to me in 2012 and I already had the vision. I had some of the scenes, but it was fleshed out in 2014 and 2015. And then it took two years before it came out in 2017. Very cool. And then do you like release it to your YouTube channel and then just, okay, let's see what happens. Or do you have a process of like, let me share it with the people. Let me like, cause you know, I'm always curious why something goes viral and gets millions of views. Obviously the content, what's behind it and the creation plays into it. I mean, anyone who would watch that would be like, this is incredible. But I'm just curious for you, how did that play out? Yeah. Just, just help in high places, right? Just dropped it on YouTube and it took off. In a way, that's actually what happened. I felt while making In Shadow, I felt like this was going to have an impact. I don't always feel that. I just felt it and I went with it because I really had no choice. I had, and still don't have too many marketing abilities. And just, I mean, at that point it was, it's difficult to advertise something that's already free and something that's not that pleasant to watch. And there's no real incentive. So how it took off though, I think Facebook back in the day, the algorithm was still quite, quite strong and you could really target a certain audience. I had a few people, a few friends who were, had large communities within the spiritual metaphysical space in Facebook and it just took off there. Some people posted it. It really blew up in France first, then came back to the States. A few years later, I know it was huge in Iran. Yeah, it's wild. Even like last Christmas, I got six years after it was made, I got an email from a Chinese teacher in like Shenzhen, I think. And he's like, I've literally made a thousand students watch this over the last number of years. And he was telling me about the impact it's had. And it's, it's incredible to, to receive that. That's where, that's for me as part of success, really, to be honest. And I'm humble, grateful, speechless at all of the reactions. And I kind of sit back and try to learn as well, because I've had some profound comments and articulations of what a shadow or kingdom means to certain people that I would have never thought of. So, there's something about the piece that resonates much greater than I do, of course, because it's not me. The piece came through me in a way. It is me, but it's something much bigger. And now it's beyond me. Yeah. Carl Rogers said, you know, the most personal is the most universal. And I think that's very, very applicable, particularly for great art, you know, like it means something different to each person who's experiencing their own incredibly unique stage of life when they consume that up, you know. It's the subjective interpretation of it. And also with, you know, films like yours, it's music animation. So, the market of the entire planet, you know, the whole world can observe it as opposed to like, if it was just in English, you know, it might not, if there was language behind it, it might be a little different. Which is really cool. That's definitely the artist's dilemma, man, is like making the art and then trying to be a marketer, trying to be an entrepreneur, trying to be, you know, wear all these different hats, you know, which feel, you know, inorganic to us, but, you know, we have to try. Yeah, we do. Well, you know what? The way I see it and more and more I'm realizing this, it's actually a disservice to our art, to our products, whatever it is, not to market it well. And I've come to this realization and what I mean by marketing it well is that when we feel the worth of what we're putting out, I feel we need to present it with that respect and to give it due diligence to create that packaging so that people can also understand how much we care for it. And also there's something else, and this is more for creators. I'm seeing that I respond despite having been educated in propaganda, marketing techniques, and all that stuff. In a way, I still like being in a way, not exactly lied to, but I need something to be embellished in order for me to really purchase it. So it's just, you know, being fully transparent here, a certain kind of packaging on a product, the same product that's packaged in more of inferiorly. There's still part of me that's like, you know what? I kind of want to believe that this product is better and it's just going to be better for me because it's packaged this way. And it's just this little trick that I had to be honest with myself about a few months ago. And I'm like, you know what? In a way we're doing a service by creating, again, better marketing for our product because it does give it more worth. And ultimately when people use that product, that art, whatever, they will make that final judgment on their own. But yeah, long story short, I think we need to be doing... I love that, man. That definitely resonates with me. And I mean, it's a sign that we care. And it's almost like we can... For the artists, humility can debilitate us as well. When it's completely out of balance, it's like, oh, I've made this thing. We're kind of shy in putting it out there. We feel uncertain as to how it's going to be received. So we back away from presenting it to the best of what it can be presented as. But I think that's something that needs to be overcome along the artist's journey as well. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Do you... Sorry again. No, you go ahead. Do you think that creating... You mentioned before, I guess, the high dopamine culture embellished through social media, etc, that we live in. Has the creative process become more difficult as the dopamine hits have become greater as well? Yeah, I'm more distracted for sure. And that's completely on me. Yeah. There's just a lot... We feel like we have a lot to catch up on. And if we don't, then we're missing out and we're somehow isolated. So that goes back to that spaciousness and sourcing ourselves as the source of satisfaction and fulfillment in the moment. This whole thing of FOMO and missing out and falling behind is a big thing. I'm also tracking it in myself, especially now that AI art is coming out, AI animation and all the other stuff, and you can create so much quicker. It definitely is more challenging. Also, people who are consuming content or watching art, there are two different things, consuming content, watching art, do have shorter attention spans. But this is also... It's not something a it's just diagnosing where we're at and as a creator and artist, creating for the time. And that really fully depends on your mission. Now, the big why for a lot of artists or creators is, I think there's a ego component of being relevant, profiting and all the normal human things. They're not wrong. It's just that when you, if you create art from a standpoint of, you know, let's say with kind of like woke culture, which has taken over and has maybe that's dying out now, but with the arts and art culture and art grants, like, you know, in Canada and pretty much any Western country, you can't really get a grant to do something traditional, something solid. Like I'd never be able to make any of my films with grants. Right. So with, let's say, just take wokeism, a lot of artists, if they don't know themselves fully, and if they like creating, they have a good aesthetic, they are creative beings, and that's amazing, but they don't really have a strong ethos that they want to express. They'll immediately create messaging that's around wokeism, but without actually really examining what it is to be a human being, what it is to suffer as any kind of human and really have a curiosity and then have something significant to say about that. And we need that direly and urgently for artists to be doing that. Instead, they'll take talking points that will be successful and authorized by all the corporations, all the arts councils, and it will be elevated and will be tagged as brave and, you know, relevant to whatever it is. And again, I'm not knocking these things. I get the dynamics, I get the psycho-spiritual things that the artists are going through. But at the end of the day, a lot of these pieces fall flat and we feel it. We all sense that, and they just don't hit. And so, this whole dopamine thing, basically the main point that you brought here is, yeah, anyone who makes something and puts it out, if they really want to have integrity, depth, and any kind of like soul growth with it, they really need to get into the personal to hit the universal more and more and be very vigilant to detach from the egoic pursuits, which have this kind of like quick reward system from empire and from the sleeping masses. You know, if that's the game that a person wants to play, then the rewards will be trinkets of tin appearing as gold, and they're all going to dissolve at one point. And the treasure that you thought you had is going to be actually trash. Yeah. But if you want real treasure from your endeavors, you got to go deep. Yeah. One's short-lived, the other one's more sustainable for sure. [Speaker 2] (57:53 - 57:54) Exactly. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (57:55 - 1:24:24) Yeah. And again, I think we all know what that's like, like, I get it. I have those impulses too. And to some degree, sometimes we have to do things for plowed strategically for other things. But yeah, you know, when we're speaking about like art, art, yeah, it's no joke. We got to go deep. Yeah, for sure, man. For sure. I mean, the more that I contemplate it, I definitely think that there can't be any more painful regret at the end of one's life than the pain of having lived inauthentically, you know, and the pain of having expressed oneself inauthentically and falsely and cultivated, you know, fake relationships, created inauthentic art, you know, basically live the life that wasn't our own. Like that's going to, you're going to feel that at the end of the day, I think. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah. What are your concerns with AI, you know, in your field and the creative world? Like, you know, beyond maybe just like the main ones that people would think about? Yeah. I'll just say those main things just to get them out of the way in case someone misconstrues what I'm saying. Like, yeah, AI taking over artists' jobs, which it seems like it's going to have an almost complete takeover in the coming years is, um, it's kind of tragic. It's, it is sad that so many people have developed all these incredible skills only to become obsolete because there are no sources of revenue and income that will now take their skills. So that's, it's, but it's also interesting. It's a question because that's in a way happening to me within my mainstream job and, or has the potential to happen, but what, like, whatever, to me, the question is the deeper one, like, what does that mean? What is the universe like what's happening right now? So one way that I look at AI is, um, as a universal force of, of conscious evolution is AI, I think is automating. This is my working theory at this point is automating all these processes that we were already, that were already automatic, that are superfluous to our existence. So whatever is more mechanical is not coming out of true human creativity and spirit. Seems like it's going to be automated out of existence. And so that leaves us just like every other calamity that shows up, it's, it's an invitation to go deeper and ask questions. It's like, all right, so if my skills and drawing a certain way are obsolete, what was I actually doing? Was I just a technician on a factory in a factory line, or was I an artist? If I'm an artist, what is, what worth am I bringing here? And how is my unique voice now? How can that be part of the conversation? Um, at the same time with art AI is the way that it's disrupting something deeper and creativity on a, on a, on a deeper level is because of the prompts. And of course we can be very creative with AI. I can see great ways that I will be using it, uh, to tell my own stories, you know, that most likely happen, um, because that way we can disrupt gatekeeping and all kinds of other stuff. But, um, AI, if we are over-reliant on it in any way for writing, creating images, whatever it is, we lose contact with the creative process itself and the problem-solving process itself. And we, the alchemical process of soul growth happens with inner tension and the tension of resolving opposites, resolving problems, and actually dealing with reality, having it interface within us, and then extracting something useful out of it. If we bypass that process, we become more and more infantilized and we give more and more of our power to this external growing force. So this is very important for, this is a very personal question to all humans, but I think we have to be very careful how much we are solving, um, issues to AI. There are times to do it, but we have to be vigilant, especially with our children, um, you know, the young ones, because yeah, we don't want to be infantile in the face of this growing parental figure of AI. Yeah. It's interesting too, because it's like, even just when you think about previous iterations or previous technologies, like even with social media and our phones, like, are we a slave to them or do we use them as the tool that they are to support us in our lives and our work and our business? And I think AI, you know, can have a similar impact too, because at the end of the day, in certain situations, you still are having a dialogue with artificial intelligence. You still get something back and go, okay, well, this, this isn't right. Like I need to make some adjustments and let me, let me, let me share some new prompts with it. Let's, let's have this kind of dialogue. But again, if you're just relying on it blankly to, to, to support you and to create your art, I mean, I, I think like I agree with everything you said. Yeah. It's, it's, it's a big topic. And because we tend to see things in a black or white way in general, the conversation is AI is great and it's going to make us prosper and it's going to help us, or it's absolutely terrible and satanic. And again, I just don't think it's wise to see it that way. Here we are in reality, AI exists. There's an emergent synthetic intelligence that's coming out, not to be curious and interface with it in a cautious and wise way, I would say is not playing the game fully. I'm not interfacing it with it that much. I, I'd benefit from chat GPT here and there, not too much, but also I can see that there's a lot more that I could be doing with it. However, I can see that I can get lost, manipulated and dumbed down by it as well. And so with like everything we need to weave the polarities here. And that happens when we orient to our why, what our intentions are and who we are. If we can, you know, if the great spiritual game is to really be grounded within the center of our heart, within our God, essence of the I am this. And if that is our orientation day after day, you know, for those of us who want to walk that path, then from there, we can start weaving some of these tools in a very useful way as we build a morality and ethics around them. Yeah, for sure. I think, I think for you know, the human being on an authentic path, like it's a call to bring more consciousness, you know, but it's going to have the opposite effect for those that interact with it inauthentically, it's going to be something that blanks consciousness. But you're right, you know, it's, it's calling for greater discernments, which requires more conscious energy. And I think that's just another thing that we have to contend with. Yeah, totally. It's a good point. And also the question, which we don't have an answer to yet, as we're exploring this is, how much does our consciousness interface and interact with AI emerging consciousness? Like, again, I don't know that I could call a consciousness yet. But there's a field of something, and I've seen enough things with friends of mine and just the general field that there's something more than just the technology with AI, that it responds in a way that is not immediately explainable, that there is some, some kind of a more subtle energetic interaction with artificial intelligence. And so the question there is, can we start teaching AI, the archaic revival traditions of all the wisdom traditions of old? Can we start interfacing with AI in a shamanic way? Can we start speaking to it about ethics and morals and the human soul and the journey of being consciousness in this universe? And is there a way that we can inform it? Or is that a fool's quest? I don't know. But if we're interested in consciousness and evolution and reality, then like, we clearly have to be feeling into this as well. Yeah. Do you think, or do you feel that, I guess, on a general note, that as a collective, we are becoming more authentic or less? So what, what do we mean by authentic? Well, you know, I guess if we can take the message of in shadow as the benchmark, you know, and the time that it was created, have we evolved consciously? Are we, are we becoming more disillusioned with, you know, the, the, the fake promises and culture of society, or is, is there a, is there more of a reclamation and a connection with, you know, the inner self as, as a guiding force? I, from the small pool of, you know, humans that I know, like a couple of hundred in my field and then thousands of others that I guess follow, I would say that we are, my overview is that we're becoming definitely more savvy and more clever in recognizing thought structures, and that we can actually move through different thought bubbles and tunnel, reality tunnels. And I think that's a great upgrade. And then authenticity, for me, I can only relate to that word on a personal level. To me, it means, am I showing up in a truthful way as I am? And that's a tricky one. I don't know if that's happening fully yet. I know a lot more people are trying to be more earnest. But things like social media and the amplification of the ego, even within the spiritual influencers and stuff, it's, it's tricky because the reward system is, you know, you gotta be present, you gotta be current, and you gotta show up. And then little by little, it's possible to get hijacked and become less authentic just by virtue of the nature of the business, let's say. And so, I don't know, I could say yes, but also, I don't know. I don't know. I know there's like goodwill, good intentions. There's a lot more knowledge, awareness, conversations. At the end of the day, is there more? I don't know. No, I appreciate it, man. I appreciate it. I don't know for sure. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely feels like if I take InShadow as the benchmark, it would seem to me that, I don't know, maybe are we becoming more authentic was the wrong question, but are we becoming more disillusioned? You know, probably, I would say yes, in that regard. Oh, yeah, big time, for sure. I mean, yeah, yeah, we see it because we've said, you know, the initiation of COVID and the walls are being brought down. And yeah, now the question, of course, is we need it. It's clear that we as humans need structure. We're trying to escape certain structures that were harming us and are still harming us. Yeah, but it's obvious that we need other structures to jump onto. And we can just exist and not necessarily anarchy, but like, we need to, we have meaning structures of meaning. And we have to renegotiate that between all of us, especially in cultures of plurality, like the West, you have all kinds of different interests. So yeah, it's, that's, that's going to be the next, next big thing that we, that we rebuild is, as I was saying earlier, principles of morality, ethics, honor, tradition, plus novelty and creativity. And what is the orienting center of it all? I mean, it has to be a recognition of the source of all being, and it's permeating influence on all of us. Like, we have to start at the very base of who we are, and that we're aligning to the harmony and growth and evolution of this thing collectively. So something needs to emerge. And of course, I know the dangers of a world religion, and we know the conspiratorial sort of path of kind of like a globalist new world order, new religion, but yeah, we got our work cut out. Yeah. How do you see things unfolding in Canada? Well, if, yeah, I don't, if they, you know, if things stayed the same, not very well at all, I could see it turning quite dire in here. They're just the measures that this current administration, this government is taking is yeah, it's, it's quite intense. I think it's, you know, it's difficult as an immigrant. One thing I've noticed, I've been in Canada for 30 years now in a big city center like Toronto, when you have all these different cultures entering a place, and most of them coming for economic stability and, you know, quote, unquote, better life. Many cultures who are used to more oppressive regimes and stuff will are cool with just giving over their sovereignty, sovereignty to a governing force. And a lot of people, I don't blame them just want to have a comfortable life, do their nine to five, you know, have their TV, their food, have their kids go to school within the system that they trust and they want to be taken care of by this greater parental authority of the government. And because there's no commonality, when you have a diverse structure of humans who are not aligned under anything other than consumerism and living on in the same space, you unfortunately don't have a solidarity and a desire for liberty, truth, and common vision for your people. Because in a place like Canada, in a lot of the city, just like in a lot of other places, the question is like, what are we all moving toward together? I don't think there's an answer. Like there's some vague, airy, you know, government empty words. So one of the issues with Canada is that we basically don't have that vision, right? Of what it is people would be fighting for. And it's quite fractured. And there's definitely some level of psychosis here as well. But just like the trucker, sorry, last thing, the thing that the trucker protests showed us is unexpected things can happen and people can be galvanized. And there are a lot of good people at the same time. So, yeah. Yeah. It's interesting to think about too, because, you know, many will argue that like Europe has fallen because they've, you know, with the EU and they've just allowed a lot more immigration and multiculturalism. And obviously I would say the U.S. is big there. And then like people will advocate against that. And yet that's kind of like reality. It's where we've moved towards. So what do we do about it now in that regards, as opposed to like, what do we just like kick everybody out that isn't like Greek out of Greece or isn't Bulgarian out of Bulgaria, you know? So yeah, I'd love for you to share maybe some of your thoughts on that. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's a hot topic now and, you know, of course I can't go to, I'm not going to go too deeply into it because we can go into get into some very controversial territory, which the Overton window is, you know, moving into, but yeah, I would just say, you know, things like. We can have that podcast and maybe a year or two. Okay. Yeah, exactly. But it's very interesting, right? Because I, I track everything from the evolution of consciousness again. So there's the geopolitical situation is there are clear signs and, you know, we can do some very solid empirical research into this, that there's a concerted effort to create discord between people. It's obviously easier to then very basic ways to, to rule creating as, as, as, as the world is awakening as societies who are oriented, maybe towards self-sufficiency, entrepreneurship, and other things. If you're a manager, the managerial class, you want to weaken those people by creating more and more chaos in different pockets. And so that can be created when you have just stark differences. And especially when you foment the fires of ethnic division and discord. And then lastly, um, empire loves to erase culture, ethnicity, folk culture, and organic culture. And empire started doing that with, uh, indigenous cultures centuries ago, and now it's reaching its own whole lens and it needs to do so because you can't allow any folk wisdom and folk consciousness to emerge in any one land, because that's power, because that's power that's connected to your ancestors. It's power connected to the victories of your ancestors, to the pains and also to their gifts. And, uh, this greater dark force that's moving through on a spiritual level cannot allow that. So that's a big part. And, um, and then there's a different aspect that I'm looking at it from, which is again, the conscious evolution. And like you said, it's happening and here it is. And what do we do with it? You know, like I am in a way, a foreigner in a foreign land, but I also take responsibility for the land that I'm on. And for the people that are here with me now, because every immigrant in Canada is a colonizer right now, literally the Chinese are the Indians are. So I don't see anyone should be, no one should be pointing fingers if they're not taking responsibility for the land, for the energy that we put into the land, the way that we care for each other, because that's part of the responsibility of the land. Right. So that pole should be there. And so now that we're in this space, the question is like, what is again, the greater invitation? Is it this global awareness that we've started reaching in the last 20, 30 years? It's like, is a greater force, despite these para-political means of destabilizing nations and societies, is there a greater force that's also asking for that so that we can all learn through it for some greater goal that we don't yet understand as messy as it pays and as it will be. So keeping those lenses, you know, being wise to what's happening on the ground and then zooming out and trying to feel into the greater question here, where the soul is involved, where we're just all souls on the ground level, there are differences and those differences actually do matter because it's unwise to say it doesn't matter, you know, because there are differences that matter for good and for bad. And then in a soul level, none of that matters because we're all souls, we're all of God and ultimately those egoic differences of culture or heritage that the soul is incarnated into shouldn't matter. So there's like, there's a greater game happening and we need more complexity and sophistication in the conversation, but we're not ready yet for it, I don't think. Yeah, well said. Yeah. That's the same pivotal man is like, regardless of how distorted that may seem at the time and in the thick of it, like that invitation is like trusting that there is a greater reason, you know, that there is a higher answer and, you know, trusting and knowing deep within that whatever is playing and playing out, whether it's on your individual life or on a collective level, it's playing out because there's something like deeper and greater that wants to be born as a result of whatever tension is arising. Yeah. Well, I think this is the difference between I guess being a black pillar or not is like reality is what it is, you know? And so like, are you going to argue with it all day or are you going to zoom out like you say and see what's happening on a bigger picture and how it relates to you and what you can do to play your part to helping expand things and move things forward. So, yeah, it's interesting to consider. Yeah, it's very interesting because also these questions we haven't considered are, they're deep questions of human beings and the sense of belonging to a piece of land and the connection we have with that land generationally. You know, I lived in Peru for nine months in the mountains and those people like, you know, they've been there for a long time and it's really cool to be in a place where I'm in a place where these people have been here for like centuries, if not millennia. And I'm in a different place where that's not the case and there's something that happens there, you know, but also something special that happens there and I felt it. And also we know a lot of people who are constantly moving like, like myself, even though I've lived in Toronto, there's a lot of movement. There's a lot of other people who have moved. There are civilizations and ethnicities who are marked by these movements and synthesizing themselves with other people and creating new civilizations. So, those are things that happen as well. And so, the big questions here are, I think, again, come from this polarity, which is so prevalent and it's like, do we ground in tradition and stay safe in what is known, which is very valid and we need some of that? Or do we just go into everything is for everyone any way they want it, which we know where that leads and that's crazy, but you'll kind of need some of that as well because we all know growing up in a small town where everyone knows your business and you can only act a certain way is pretty tough. And usually young people need to move out of that town so they can individuate, be the prodigal son and graduate from that so that they can truly appreciate tradition and then upgrade it so that it's not collapsed in this limited way, right? Like both of these things are necessary. Again, we just need to weave wisely. And same thing with populations and cultures like, yeah, it's like, it's crazy to destroy a culture that's been in a certain place for so long and yet it's been happening for the duration of existence on this planet. What does that mean? That means there's pain, there's transformation, and there's synthesis into other ways. And it's a big question mark. And of course our survival, like our emotional body wants to be like, no, I want to be safe the way things are. And this is the great, both tragedy and opportunity. And it's like, yeah, I wish that could be the way, but it's not. Yeah. It's interesting when you think about it from an immigration standpoint, because it's like, my parents came to this country in Greece and you see many immigrants go to the countries that they go to. And it's like, it's safe to just hold onto your culture, which I think is beautiful. But then it's like, are you, I wouldn't say assimilating, but are you staying connected to the land and where you're at, where you've moved to? And for me, there was a part of me that wanted to leave all that. Like, yeah, I appreciated my Greek culture and my upbringing, but like you said, I wanted to go, I wanted to individually, I wanted to go on my hero's journey. I wanted to explore, have adventures, make mistakes, learn. And then I feel like as I've gotten older, I'm appreciating where I come from and appreciating my culture so much more. But I'm looking at it through a different lens than if I had never left. And so it's interesting, because I remember being like, oh yeah, whatever, I'm American, I live in America, I'm cool, I do all these things. But then now it's like, I listened to like a Greek folk music that came from my mother's village deep in the mountains, and I start weeping. And it's like, why am I weeping? Like, what's going on here? What is this like ancestral connection to my land that just impacts me in such a deep way? And with my father passing away in February, you know, it's just like, I feel more connected to it. And I don't know, it's, I'm still in process of like, what is this thing that's like overtaken me that I feel connected to? Whereas for years, I was like, whatever, I'm just living my life doing my thing. Oh yeah, I'm Greek too. Yeah. Yeah, brother. Thank you for sharing that, man. Yeah, that's real. That's real and like deep. It's amazing that you're in touch with it more and more. There's clearly some sort of calling there that's still a deeper level that is asking you to look at it. So, where are you at with that process now? Like, what's where? Well, I don't know. I mean, it's also a little maybe more present because, well, I mentioned my dad passed away, but my mom's staying with us for a month. You know, she's 81 years old. My dad died at 93. And it's like having her here too. And then like, you know, she's like a legend in the kitchen as a Greek, you know, we're having all the classic foods and dishes and I don't know, man, I don't know where I'm at with it. I don't know. I love having her around as well. Like there's something that again, we've lost in the modern world where like multiple generations aren't connected, you know. So, the wisdom there and the love, I mean, just the love piece of it is something that I think is really deep as well. Now, it's not, it's still an adjustment, you know, to have my mother in my space where I'm an adult, it's like lived into my home with my wife. So, it's not like all roses and butterflies, but like there's just a deeper connection and meaning and appreciation for where I come from, you know, that I come from another land. My blood comes from a different land and I just have more and more gratitude for it. So, yeah, I don't know how things will unfold, but it's just a deep appreciation and gratitude. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like there's a natural greater reverence that arises for one's ancestry and one's heritage, you know, as you mature and like as you mentioned, like if you never leave the nest in the first place, I feel like the weight of that culture actually becomes burdensome because it's all you've ever known, you know, and it almost becomes, yeah, heavy in a way because there's no contrast for the appreciation to be cultivated, you know, but now having gone on the journey, it's, you know, and as you grow older, it's like, where do I really come from? What is at the base of, you know, my being, you know, and my history and my past and what does all that mean for my, you know, current existence? Yeah. [Speaker 3] (1:24:24 - 1:24:25) Oh, you go, you go. [Speaker 1] (1:24:25 - 1:32:18) No, no, you go ahead. I just wanted to say that, like, even me now in my life, you know, my wife and I have been married for five years, we've been together 10 years, you know, we left more urban living, you know, in 2020 and we have some land and I've been connecting more to the land and like learning more about permaculture and we planted fruit trees, we have chickens, like this is something that's, like, has been a big part of my life the last few years and it's like, I grew up, my dad had a massive garden, but he didn't really include me in it that much, I didn't really care to be involved with it and then, like, I have these moments now where I'm outside and I have a tank top on and I just have these flash images of, like, my dad in his white little tank top, like, doing his thing, you know, outside in the backyard and I'm like, you know, he would appreciate this so much, you know, and that, like, I am his son, you know, even just that, like, he's, it's just, yeah, it's interesting awarenesses and emotions around it. Yeah, but it's beautiful how that generational life experience just weaves in us and through you it's coming in what seems like these simple small ways, but it's actually huge because it's you working with the land, you using your body and you continuing that lineage, like, that's exactly, I think, the way forward as empire is actually incentivizing, atomizing us and separating us from families and de-parenting and, you know, it's like it's those things that make us humans as, like, the AI is creating all these separate nodes of human beings hooked on online culture, screen, blue screens. Our rebellion here and our responsibility to, like, stand nobly in the organic world of spirit is to establish those connections of all of our ancestors, our surrounding family, while they're still here in our emerging tribe of organic units of awakened humans. And, like, yeah, man, thanks, thanks for sharing that. I feel, I definitely feel the still of your father's passing. I'm very sorry to hear that. Thank you. Yeah. It was this funny meme that I think goes around. It could be applied to maybe different, like, old world cultures, but it's like, oh yeah, our grandparents or our parents, like, left the village to come to, like, you know, the U.S. or Canada and it's like, all I want to do now is, like, sell everything and go move back to the village. You know, it's like this, like, circle of life that I think is happening because I feel like so many people are realizing, you know, we've lost the connection to the land, to what health really means, to peace, to, again, yeah, that connection to the natural world and we've gotten urbanized. And I'm not saying there aren't benefits to it, but I think so many people are yearning for something deeper and more slow and more connected. Yeah. I see it happening. Yeah. So, to me, you know, like, relationship to God has always been, like, a reverence for the mystery. And I think if we lose reverence for the mystery, then we are going to be absolutely lost, you know. So, I think the most important thing is just, like, to find ways to continually kindle just that awe of being, that awe of experience, like, what is going on? Like, what is this? Like, you know, like, that primordial question, like, what the hell is this? You know? Mm. I agree. It's, like, awe and wonder are incredible ingredients of the recipe for real fulfillment. And, yeah, because you, yeah, you're right. There's this, like, almost, like, reaching out into existence and an opening. That's what curiosity and awe and wonder are to me. And as zest for life emerges and this desire to connect, it's almost like our energetic body field wants to connect to the world and experience. And when you were saying that, what came up for me is immediately the things that get in the way for me for that. And I've actually bemoaned and I've mourned a lot of my loss of wonder years ago. And I'm still working through that from childhood and moving into a more mature sense of wonder, where I can truly be an artist of life. Like, how do I live my life artistically? Oh, apologies. I never turned off my phones. And what came up to me as you were speaking is those little gnarly things that are not real, but tell me, no, think about the past or think about these wounds or think about, you know, the filter. And it's like the responsibility of the hero is to clear that lens, to move through that fog and be like, fuck no, like, wonder. Yes, you are here. Yes, I'll take care of you. But like, have a seat beside me. I'm the driver and let's fucking troll. I love that. I love that so much. Believe me, I can't tell you how much I've appreciated this conversation. It's meant so much to me. It's been impactful, even just in this 90 minutes, sharing this dialogue with you. I guess in closing, do you have like a final kind of message just for those listening that's coming through like at the moment that you feel called to share? I think what, what we just started here, I think this piece on, on wonder connecting to that more energized, energized space of aliveness. Anytime I've connected to that place is when I am at my best, when I'm at my strongest, when I am at my most vital and truly a living node of spirit. So yeah, if, if, if, if, if everyone who's with us is, is, you know, my invitation is to open to what is that wonder and curiosity right here, despite everything else, if that spark can be kindled little day by day. And let me just say, I'm going to do that starting today as well. Let, let me take a nugget from this conversation with you, man. Yeah. So yeah, I just want to want to leave, leave that. Thank you, man. Thank, thank you for being here. You know thank you for, for, for showing up, for digging deeper and for, you know, being in that process of becoming who you were born to be, you know, like we're big advocates in the belief that every single person has this unique blueprint, this unique seed of consciousness, you know, Aristotle called it entelechy, you know, like the, the blueprint of the oak tree already exists within the acorn. And very often we get in the way of that, of that sprouting in, in, in, in an organic way. But it really just feels like, you know, you're, you're giving your gift and you're striving for potential. And personally, man, I appreciate it so much. Yeah. Yeah. I echo everything Joel said, man. I mean, it's so great to, to, to connect and meet you and obviously having, having seen your, your, your creations, like, um, yeah, man, you're, you're an awesome human being just for this, from these 90 minutes of spending time with you. So much appreciate this. Yeah. Thanks guys. Yeah. Much, much respect. Very much appreciate it as well. Really, really like, uh, like you guys and enjoy this time with you. We're obviously going to, um, link your website and your primary works, but is there anything else that you'd like to direct that audience towards in terms of how they can best support you or what you'd like to get their attention on right now if they wanted to dig deeper into your work? Um, yeah, just there's, I also have an ex account, Instagram, they're kind of dormant for the time being, but I may become more active, uh, there soon. Um, for those who are web three oriented, there's going to be a, through like a ordinance collection. It's something on the Bitcoin chain. It's, it's quite, um, maybe niche to a lot of people, but you can look that up on, on, uh, on Twitter and yeah. Uh, we'll see. We'll see what comes next with it, with the storytelling journey. Oh man. Looking forward to it. Everyone else. Thank you for listening and we'll see you next time. Never.