Lishui Springford The Root of All Conflicts?

Joel 00:00:02.400 - 00:00:33.210 Lashui Springfield is an earth and ecological scientist. She used to do environmental cleanup, then she moved into policy and then enforcement. She hated her career, quit, and became an ecology professor. She discovered the five biological laws in April 2002 while sitting in her naturopath's office waiting for yet another detox. But the main thing she had to learn to practice this properly was how to understand the psyche. But Sri, welcome to Here for the Truth. Lishui 00:00:33.850 - 00:00:34.970 Thanks for having me. Joel 00:00:35.770 - 00:00:41.210 Nice. You can take my second statement. Don't worry. Lishui 00:00:41.210 - 00:00:42.050 Well, I didn't want to the same. Joel 00:00:42.050 - 00:00:44.810 Way for 290 episodes. Now all of a sudden I don't. Yerasimos 00:00:44.810 - 00:01:06.140 Need to ask the opening question. I just want to say it's great to have you here and I know we touched on it before, but Obviously I love Dr. Harma's work and the five biological laws and I feel like this podcast has been a little mini hub to help, you know, spread, spread the wisdom and so really looking forward to having you on this podcast. You know, we've been connecting on Facebook for a while. I appreciate your posts and. Okay, Joel, you can take over. You can ask the opening question. Joel 00:01:06.540 - 00:01:09.100 Good context, bro. This is what makes you an amazing host, you know. Yerasimos 00:01:09.340 - 00:01:24.510 Yeah. Well, as we always do start with first time guests, we'd love to get into your personal story and to ask you about your personal journey and your major rites of passage that you know, led you to who you are today. Wow. Lishui 00:01:25.710 - 00:01:59.400 Huh. Huh. Rites of passage. That's a toughie. Because, you know, there's not. I don't know if it's just me, but the real pivot points in life don't tend to be awesome memories. They tend to be what we would in our society today. What's the fashion? We would tend to call them traumas. Joel 00:01:59.960 - 00:02:08.040 And well, whatever, whatever's present for you in terms of the key things that you think really shaped the trajectory of, of your journey. Lishui 00:02:11.480 - 00:05:22.310 I suppose it always goes back to early childhood and all that stuff. And you know, as I start to unravel, I call it the mind tree, this stacked up branching collection of unresolved stuff in our psyche that that compels us. Carl Jung's quote is, until you make the unconscious conscious, it'll run your life and you will call it fate. So as I work backwards through the tree of my fate that the big the beginning of when I started working back through it was I need to do something about being in narcissistic abuse. A lot like kind of being a bit of a magnet for that. I thought, now I understand it's sort of the way of how the world is right now. People are either narcissists or empaths. It's kind of a polarization that's been happening for probably the 2000s. Like probably this. This millennia, this century so far has been this pulling apart of am I trying to grab everybody else to get them to rescue me, or am I the rescuer? And then, of course, there's the third path, which is the point of this. The point of every evolution is the third path. What if I just awaken to this whole pile of. And not play either game? But that's what I've been doing. I had been waking up to that since my son was born. My son was born in 2004, and he was diagnosed with down syndrome at birth, which was shocking. Not because there was anything about him that wasn't perfect. He was. He was perfect. But the response from the people around me in the world, that was an eye opener, let me tell you. I was kind of almost keen to take on down syndrome because I had learned about the five biological laws of the Germanic new medicine a couple years before, and I knew I could solve anything. And syndrome is a collection of symptoms. And I had the beginning of solving symptoms. How do you solve symptoms? So I was keen to get going with that. And I actually had a lot of fun in his early years learning about how the brain develops and all kinds of cool stuff. But the hard part was realizing how many people in our lives can be fair weather and they. And then just out of there when they perceive things are going tough. Some people are out of there because they don't know what to say. And it's. And it's difficult. Some people are out of there because you might need something from them. And then some people are out of there because they can't count on you as much as they used to. Joel 00:05:22.630 - 00:05:23.110 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:05:23.590 - 00:05:23.990 Yeah. Lishui 00:05:23.990 - 00:07:16.310 And that every one of those hurts to realize that because it. It changes our sense of. It changed my sense of who I was. Who am I when other people are so quick to. And I had an identity conflict through that. I had a. I was already working identity conflict before that. But I. I just realized, wow, I don't know who I am in relation to other people. And just by who I am, I can hurt people. That's how I felt about it at the time. Now I know. Oh, no. I. I come from a. I come from a family that loves to scapegoat and doesn't like to handle difficult things. And I was the prime handler, which is probably why I even cared about the environment and cared about the five biological laws when I found them. I wanted to help everybody. I wanted to fix all the problems. And, and so that was the beginning of understanding all of that. And the, the, you know, maybe eight, eight or so years ago, I realized, oh, this is called narcissistic abuse. And I am a narcissistic abuse, like have the pattern because I'm also having this patheticness thing. And so where there's this human magnet syndrome where the two types attract one another. And I've been really working on not being that sort of a person anymore because I genuinely love people and want them to be happy. And just because a certain sort of person is quicker to belly up to the trough for that doesn't mean I shouldn't be doing that sort of work. Yerasimos 00:07:18.070 - 00:08:02.090 So what, what was it? Because there's a lot of things I want to kind of chat about with, with what you just said. But what was it, you know, in 2002, I believe you said it was when you're in the naturopath's office, like, what was it about these five biological laws that like hit you that clicked, you know, because it's gotten. Obviously Dr. Hummer's work has gotten popular since 2020, the COVID years, but you came across it earlier than most people in North America, I would say, especially with this, with this lineage being German and you know, I think more people in Germany and in Europe being familiar with his work. So like, what was it like coming from your background and you know, working with the environment, do you think anything any of that played into it, some of your foundational education? Lishui 00:08:02.570 - 00:14:00.980 It's funny how much I, I knew before I knew it and then, and then the, and only now, only in recent years, really getting into the depths of it. Like, for example, I am all about the Fifth Biological Law. And I was that. No, nobody cares about the fifth Biological Law. Nobody knows what the Fifth Biological Law is really. And that's how I was for the first time. 20 Years, but maybe 15 years. But I felt those deeper meanings of it at a soul level. And that's. So when I discovered that, just read this little article in one of those magazines you read in the naturopath's office. And it was written by Isadore Laker and she was my teacher. But the, the, the article said that there was this doctor and he called it the new medicine. And that when. And there's these five biological laws and that when you have cancer, it's because you had some Kind of a. A biological conflict, which is this shocking, traumatic experience. And I said, oh, I already knew that, but a medical doctor has proven it. And I just laugh at my former self for thinking that because we don't prove things. Medical doctors are not authorities. Like, there's so much of that that I would just scoff at now. But at the time, it was providing a verification that I needed for something I had discovered and. But felt very alone with and therefore didn't talk to people about. And so what had been going on is about five years previous to that, I developed panic disorder. My job was really, really stressful, mostly because I had a very abusive boss, which was my pattern in life. But the. The job itself was abusive. I had to go and clean up environmental contamination. But the whole thing in our industry was to find the contamination and then just jump for joy at finding it and never, ever want to find a nice, clean, pristine site. And this was very dissonant for me. Right. And. And then the way we cleaned it up was also crap. Just convert the form of the garbage to a different form sort of thing. Same with. Same. In the landfill business, we got the waste reduction. These huge international waste reduction goals focused on the residential sector. Meanwhile, the commercial and institutional sectors, waste production dramatically increased more than what was decreased in the residential sector. And then it occurred to me, you know, know, they're the same people. A person's just throwing the garbage away at work, not at home so much. Just this. This realization of the stupidity of things. Anyway, I developed panic disorder. It started one day. I was flying back to my job after a vacation, and I was so stressed because I hated that job so much. And I had a panic attack on the airplane. And that began, first of all, flying phobia. Secondly, it began panic attacks in general. And I started having them for more and more subtle reasons. And it just. My life became about managing these panic attacks. And I had to. I had to start feeling my way, like, what brings it on, what's happening here? And other health symptoms as well. But I finally realized something inside my mind happens, and then the panic attack happens. And it's my mind that I have to get a hold of here. But the panic attack leads to the heart stuff. All sorts of physical symptoms are involved. Then there's a kind of a hangover the next day. So that. And that. That's a blood sugar thing. So there's actually a lot more going than just psychological and feelings and emotions going on here. There's genuine physical reactions going on. And. But I. I Know, it's beginning in my mind, and what's going on in my mind is what I'm thinking about. And what am I thinking about? I'm thinking about that thing that stressed me out that happened. And I had put that all together and was actually beginning to work my way out of anxiety disorder by myself. I wasn't in a program or anything. I mean, I was getting help from a naturopath and. But I was getting help with my physical symptoms. I was like empirically working my way through and out of panic disorder. And then I discovered Dr. Hammer's work and he verified it. And my biggest fear was cancer. That I could get a panic attack going in a second. Just a little bit of propaganda that had cancer related stuff in it. So then when I find the solution to cancer, I was like, I nailed it. I got it. I'm free. So that's, that's why I just latched onto that. There was no turning back. Joel 00:14:01.380 - 00:14:14.900 Yeah. So it's almost like, you know, a freedom from, I guess, a level of fear that is not necessary, which I think people are really drawn to with, with this work. You muted yourself, Backson. Lishui 00:14:14.900 - 00:14:52.040 I think, yes, they're. They're drawn to it because of, because it relieves a fear. And then they scare the crap out of themselves with gnm. Because this fear is not coming from cancer and so on. This fear is coming from our society. It's being implanted into us thousand times a day, this fear. And we are not. We haven't totally uncovered that in the GNM community. And so we're scaring ourselves with the GNM now. We're taking the same ideas into gnm. Yerasimos 00:14:52.120 - 00:15:36.490 Well, because that's what I, I noticed too, is that like, some people, they're just worried. It's like, I can't live my life because if I live my life, I'm gonna have a conflict. And I can't. I don't want to have a conflict. You know, it's just like this fear against having a conflict every day. And I can't do this to my kid because then they're gonna have a conflict. And it's. And it's like, yo, chill. But it's kind of almost that thing where it's like the, this, the hopeful journey that a person goes on where you learn the thing and then you throw it all away and then you just live your life. You know what I mean? Like, but some people are in that stage where it's like the micromanaging of it as opposed to wow, I get this knowledge, but then does it free me or does it constrain me more? And that's usually a signpost that something needs to shift more. Lishui 00:15:38.170 - 00:16:11.420 It's the feminine identity conflict. And most, virtually all women have it these days. But a lot of men, most men have it too. Most of us are constellated. Dr. Hammer was grateful that he saw CAT scans before, before the 2000s, before the 90s, because starting in the 90s, virtually everybody was constellated beginning then. And he, he would have thought that was just normal brains, but he had seen normal brains before that. Joel 00:16:12.140 - 00:16:17.740 What, what changed drastically for that drastically changed. Yerasimos 00:16:17.740 - 00:16:22.500 And the Internet like the 90s, this. Lishui 00:16:22.500 - 00:18:16.030 Is leading us actually to the pro, to the heart of the problem. The. So see how our minds go. What occurred in the world that we then had a conflict about and that, that could be what it is. But the what we need to be asking with the fifth biological law, we now know this, which Dr. Hammer by the way only discovered in the 90s, a decade after he discovered the first biological law. Why did so many of us care in that way to make a conflict about it and then to go constellated about it? We had a world war in the 90s, right. It's not like we had the bubonic plague in the 90s, Great Depression in the 90s. Why did so many of us go mental in the 90s? So that identity conflict, what I call it, the feminine identity conflict is I am kicked out of the container, I effed up, I did something wrong, I hurt people just by existing. And I need to dial it back. I need to, and I need to save everybody else. I can't be the villain. I can't stand it. I need to be the rescuer. What began in the 90s was full victimhood. I think it's that, I think it's a systems dynamic. You know the, the line about hard times make good men. Yeah, I think, I think we entered into the era of weak men, good times making weak men. That's my. Yerasimos 00:18:16.190 - 00:18:42.290 Well you think about the abundance, the abundance of like the 80s, you know, like that lean that led into that as well. You know, I mean most, I mean at least in the western world, most men, most humans, we haven't had to deal with any type of like major war. We're just kind of doing our thing, going to work, making money, having all the comforts as technology is advanced things and, and it's like things haven't been that hard. Joel 00:18:43.890 - 00:18:45.010 Third way communism. Lishui 00:18:46.210 - 00:19:50.030 I think they haven't been hard enough. In fact, that's one of the biggest challenges with my son. He's 22 years old and I'm trying to get him to be a man. Well, why should he? Why should he? His mommy will bring him breakfast if he holds out long enough. Right. Why should he do make any effort at all? And then all he has to do if I'm really strong is he just has to starve himself and maybe cry a little and I just fall apart. That's identity conflict on my part. The identity conflict, when we've got the identity conflict makes us believe that the world is doing stuff to us that I, I am at cause. So if you're sad and I happen to be in the room with you, I must have made you sad. It's, it's mechanical determinism. Our whole civilization is built on it. But it came to fruition late in the last century. Joel 00:19:51.310 - 00:19:51.670 Yeah. Lishui 00:19:51.670 - 00:20:08.190 When everything, you know, when, and, and believe me, they had to work hard on this in the scientific revolution that they decided, oh God, dead, the universe is a clockwork. They had to work, they had to work to disconnect from reality. But they've succeeded. Joel 00:20:09.150 - 00:20:37.360 Yeah, totally. Yeah, I mentioned it before, like third wave feminism happened in the 90s, you know, which I think bridges into all of this too. And I even think back to, you know, the classic psychological subversion that, you know, Yuri Besmanov speaks to in terms of the educational systems and the ways in which, you know, people were force fed indoctrination to kind of have conflicts antagonistic to their own natural values in a sense too. Lishui 00:20:38.480 - 00:20:47.400 Yeah, so, so worried about being the bad guy. Yeah, yeah, that's what's going on. That's the identity conflict and then like. Yerasimos 00:20:47.400 - 00:21:20.910 The kind of the continuation. But I feel like it came to a certain place where like even just the breakdown of the traditional family structure, you know, because I, I bring, I may have brought this up before, but you know, on the Internet you see different health influencers, usually like the nutrition food influencers. They'll post pictures of like the 1970s of a beach in like Brazil, like or, or some other country, and everyone is like healthy and fit. You know, they just kind of like have this natural, healthy fitness to them. And I remember going, I remember going, and they're sane. Lishui 00:21:21.470 - 00:21:25.109 They're sane. Sure there is. Yerasimos 00:21:25.109 - 00:23:13.940 Yeah. So, so, but these, the people that are posting this, they'll use it as a reason to go like, oh, it's the seed oils. Oh, it's this. Oh, it's that. They look at it from much more materialistic standpoint. Now I don't want to sit here and not and discount 100% of that stuff, but like it goes beyond that. And so everything that we're talking about here, you know, the dissolution of the family, things that shifted culturally, the growing of the Internet, getting more into easy times, like it's multifactorial that has impacted us. So it's not as simple as oh, let's just go back to eating grass fed meat and not have seed oils. And then we're all just going to like turn into like 1970s Brazilian looking people and being fit, healthy, insane. You know, it's, I think it's more than that. And actually I remember, I have a distinct memory of going to Greece in the 90s as like a young teen and experiencing the same thing, like everyone looking fit and healthy. At that time in my, especially when I got into my 20s and started getting more into nutrition, I used to think, because I remember at that time the, the standard American diet and western corporations were taking over Europe. So in Greece and Athens you had like KFC and Dunkin Donuts. All these places were coming in and so maybe it had an impact. But then, you know, growing up as a Greek person, the family is very important and being together and eating together and things of that nature, what does that do to us on a psycho emotional level? So then all this new shiny objects, all this new things coming from, you know, corporations and food, like how does that impact the family? How does, does that can cause conflicts? So like people love to oversimplify things, but it, there is a complexity and nuance to this conversation in my opinion. Lishui 00:23:14.340 - 00:24:25.910 It's, we're all away from home. I mean home as the who, who am I? Where do I belong? Who. The essential self. We're away from there. And I'm, I'm pinning most of the blame on this identity conflict because this identity conflict says I, I got to leave my goal post and run over there and rescue you because I can't be wrong about anything. It's this terror of being the bad guy. And this is what I, I. Let's lump it all together and just call it weak men. We have both men who won't stand up for what's right because it's unpopular. This is the norm, right? Male feminists, oh, that just hurts my nervous system to think about that. But this is the norm. And people not wanting to call out wrongness, people not wanting to make anybody else do anything hard, even though it's for their own Good. Tough love is good for us. We need something to kick against. Well, I mean, what every special biological program is, it's. It's giving us a challenge to overcome so we can become something better. Right. Joel 00:24:25.910 - 00:24:57.210 Well, it's like when. When we blur the lines between and evil externally to us, obviously those lines then become blurred internally as well. And that is like a root conflict in and of itself, and we can no longer discern what's right, what's wrong, what's natural, what's unnatural, what is in alignment with life, what is contradictory to life. And, like, you're right. This detachment from reality on a deep psychological level no doubt has occurred and has splintered, you know, many minds. Lishui 00:24:57.850 - 00:24:59.450 Yeah, we're not home. Joel 00:24:59.930 - 00:25:00.930 Yeah. Yeah. Yerasimos 00:25:00.930 - 00:25:35.820 I love that you mentioned the tough love thing, because it's like a conversation I have on a regular basis because I was an athlete growing up, and I actually liked being coached hard. Like, I appreciated it. It doesn't have to come from, like, this demeaning shaming, like, insulting you, but I liked it. And I've been training with this martial artist, and I'm like, dude, I want you to train me hard. You don't need to be like, put on kids, kids gloves and be soft. And I feel like there's just been this, like, complete opposite shift from, like, the authoritarian coach teacher, which, you know, there's some issues with that. Joel 00:25:35.820 - 00:25:36.220 Don't. Yerasimos 00:25:36.220 - 00:25:44.180 Don't get me wrong on some level to, like, this, like, soft. Everyone gets a trophy. Like, I don't want to hurt your feelings. Lishui 00:25:45.540 - 00:25:46.500 That's weak. Yerasimos 00:25:46.900 - 00:26:35.880 It's. Yeah, that's weak. And it's just like, be easy on him. And I just, you know, today I watched a video clip. They were talking about the state of US Basketball culture and how all these young kids now, like, they have millions of social media followers. Some of them are making money already. They feel like they've arrived, these teenager superstars. They feel like they're arrived. Okay. And meanwhile, in Europe, if you're a good basketball player at 14, 15, you're playing with adults, you're getting. You're getting, like, beat on by grown men. In these professional leagues, your coach is coaching you hard. But in the US it's like the sense of entitlement. And you see what's happening. And in the interview, they were talking about from an Olympic standpoint, that, like, they wouldn't be surprised if the US basketball team in 2028, like, just doesn't get gold or is medalist anyways. Joel 00:26:35.880 - 00:26:36.280 It. Yerasimos 00:26:36.440 - 00:26:51.020 It plays into this thing that I think we're talking about, about like the softness, the entitlement and not really having to go through some stages of growth and being like coached hard in some way that I think is just impacting people in a negative way. Lishui 00:26:51.180 - 00:27:09.500 We got to be coached hard. And I'm just. Now we're just talking about the men. Men have to be coached hard or they don't feel like men. They feel like when, when a man is babied. I don't want to speak for you, but if a man is babied and mothered, it, it's hard to be a man. It's hard to feel like a man, you know? Yerasimos 00:27:10.540 - 00:27:56.770 Yeah, I've had to work, I've had to work through a lot of conditioning of being raised as a little bit of a mama's boy with like a really loving, overbearing Greek mother, you know, especially in my expecting women to like do everything that my mom did for me. And it was like I got a wake up call very quickly and it was like, well, who do I want to be? Not that I'm sitting here saying I'm like 100 alpha male and I probably am not from a biological standpoint, definitely not with whatever conflicts I experienced. But like, it's like, well, what, how can I improve? You know, what little things can I do to like embrace that and stand up for myself and be more of a man? And it's, it's, it's definitely a journey. And it's, it's obviously like what we've talked about. It's the required work for people that grew up in the 80s and the 90s, you know what I mean? Or the 2000s. Lishui 00:27:57.250 - 00:30:23.320 I consider myself very so narcissistic. And this is the thing. How do narcissists form? They either form from being utterly neglected or being totally spoiled. Both as the same result. Who, who do I want to be? We. It's never even a question. It's like, oh, me as this toddler. Level of development of emotional discernment and psychological effect. That's the best I can be. I'm just gonna stay here. But women are also have become weak men. The identity conflict is a feminine conflict and women are extremely prone to it. Men have to have something else already going on before they'll have an identity conflict. Men have to have territorial loss first. Left handed. Men have to have two territorial losses first. But women, they go for it. They can have identity conflict just like that. All they have to be, all that has to happen is they have to be blamed for somebody else's. Experience and they have to believe that. And then what do they do? Right handed women immediately go masculine. But they're weak men, they're manipulative, dishonest, they're in a costume, they have an agenda and it's about getting other people to love them or something like that. And it's not about themselves anymore. And then left handed women, they have to have at least two sort of rejection kind of things alive in them and then they'll start going masculine as well. So. And this is unfortunately the norm. Like Dr. Hammer noticed, most people have at least two of these territorial and rejection conflicts going on at any given time. That's what makes a constellation. And so that we're, we're off in outer space, we're dealing in possibilities and ideals, which is nice. This is nice. It's all building something up for when we actually do resolve this stuff. But it's going to hurt. It's going to hurt. Yerasimos 00:30:23.800 - 00:30:39.020 Do you think there are some things that can't be resolved? Like, I know in the GNM world I've heard like people say if you have a certain constellation by 25 like that, you can't, you can mitigate it, but you can't actually completely change it. And so you kind of want to make sure you don't fall on tracks like what are your thoughts? Lishui 00:30:39.340 - 00:32:29.080 Yeah, we're touching on to my, my favorite stuff to bash on my tough love that I love to give. When it comes to gnm, we are taking this identity conflicted, deterministic victim shit into gnm. So you know, when you make a conflict, you make it, you do that with your mind. Somebody asked me in a call not too long ago, did I do that or did my psyche do that? And the answer I would give her right now if I had thought of it then the answer would have given her if I thought of it was if I, if I go and I smack somebody, just give them, belt them right across the face. Did I do that or did my hand do that? So we need to understand my psyche. I'm doing it. I'm doing my psyche. So when I have a conflict in my psyche, I'm doing it. But we've taken the, the shul medicine, the what Dr. Hammer called shul medicine, conventional medicine. We've taken it into gnm. We've taken the victim, villain, rescuer crap into gnm and immediately we start scaring ourselves. Even even though we discover the gnm, yay, cancer can be cured. Yay. Then we start Delving into it. Oh, no. What about the epic crisis? What about the tracks? What about if I solve it? And it's been going on for over nine months on this side, but not as many on that side. But then it was four years, so it divided in half and did it? Yeah. Yerasimos 00:32:29.080 - 00:32:35.360 I gotta keep Track. Am I 8, 8 months and 23 days. Like, oh, no, I can't be conflict active for seven more days. Joel 00:32:35.920 - 00:32:47.400 What is this speaking to within, like the general human psychology to kind of constantly seek for the thing to be concerned about. What's like, lame, perpetuate and inflate crisis around? Lishui 00:32:48.360 - 00:34:52.779 It's, it's being. I'm not at my goal post. I am not in my home area. I'm over on the other team's side trying to manage things. It's identity conflict. I'm up in other people's business because I am in a, in a conflict active state of believing that the world is doing stuff to me and I am doing stuff to the world. It's mechanistic determinism. You know, when the quantum stuff was discovered, it was the Mickelson Morley experiment in the late 1800s. They discover. Oh, no, no, no, no. There's an entanglement. You know, there's. They didn't discover all this stuff, all the nuance of it. Just like I didn't know all of GNM when I discovered the five biological laws in 2002. But they understood the implications and they squashed it and they disconnected from it. And the implications are. No, no, no. The, the observer and that which they are observing are totally entangled. So you're not a blob over there and I'm not a cartoon character over here. We are energy patterns that are interacting with energy patterns. And if I, if. When I have an identity conflict, I'm disconnecting from all that. Oh, no, I'm not. No, I'm not. My psyche did it. My hand slapped him. So what's going on is we are becoming terrified because my body is doing this to me. That, that terrible event happened to me and then my brain has to adapt to it. Poor me, poor stupid brain. I told it not to. I've been telling my psyche not to do that, but it's doing it anyway. So the victim stuff is so there, but now I've got an identity conflict, so I get to pretend that I'm victimizing myself. Yeah, it's all, it's all schizophrenia. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's total. Joel 00:34:53.579 - 00:36:25.570 Yeah, yeah. It's, it's so fascinating to me. One of the things that we address like in Rise above the Herd is what we would, I guess collectively call like Anti Life programming. And like, one of the things we point at as this Anti Life programming is like, people have different definitions, but like, the root idea of Gnosticism is that I am a prison of the planet and my soul is a prison of the body. And my highest goal is to escape this quote unquote prison that I find myself living in and experiencing in. And ultimately it manifests as you're speaking as, as a sense of not really being home in the world, as like this underlying fracture or disconnect from nature in, in and of itself, you know, And I also just wonder how much of this just underlying disconnect from. I'm no longer part, I'm not part of nature. Like, nature's scary, you know, Like, I am this separate thing and the world is trying to eat me, so to speak. Like, plays into this as well. And like, it's crazy to think about the role of the psyche and then the importance of the ideas that we choose to feed ourselves with in terms of the lives that we end up living and experiencing. Like, it could, nothing could be more powerful than the ideas that we choose to either take in and reject. You know,. Lishui 00:36:27.410 - 00:36:29.010 Maybe it is the Internet. Yerasimos 00:36:30.290 - 00:36:31.890 Well, I'm, But I, but I. Lishui 00:36:31.890 - 00:36:32.330 That's. Joel 00:36:32.330 - 00:36:32.770 Yeah,. Yerasimos 00:36:35.090 - 00:37:24.770 But where, where do we have access to so much potential conflicting information and events? Like, you know, we talk about this even in terms of like, when we speak of the nervous system. And like, for most of human history, we didn't know every single thing that was happening on every single corner of the world with every single person. Like, it was very, it was limited to like, you, your family, your community, your tribe, maybe like a neighboring community. And like, with the rise of technology, especially this 247 news cycle, like, I don't, I don't know if we have the capacity for that to the degree maybe we will one day. Maybe we'll go through some crazy process and we'll be okay with it. I don't know. But like, I definitely think the Internet has played a huge role. It's been, it's also been amazing. Lishui 00:37:25.330 - 00:37:26.930 It's incredible, amazing. Joel 00:37:26.930 - 00:38:03.480 It's, that's a, that begs the question because there's always throughout history been versions of the Internet, versions of advanced technological shifts. And us as evolutionary beings, we're designed to adapt to these things ultimately, you know, so like, again, this argument of are things out of order or Are we just constantly in this process of adapting to a new order? You know, like, if Dr. Hama saw brains, okay, he saw them in the 90s, and he saw them in the sweet. The eyes and saw a difference. But if he saw them in the 60s. Right. Again, would he be like, oh, what the hell? Yerasimos 00:38:03.800 - 00:38:19.330 I think that. I think the type of changes have been exponential in terms of how they've impacted the human organism. A little different, in my opinion, than like, you know, from 1800 or 1700 to 1800. You know, there's been, obviously, shifts and changes, but I think it's been different. Joel 00:38:20.450 - 00:38:39.070 Like, we're walking, we got horses, we're doing everything by hand. Holy crap, there's electricity. Holy crap, there's cars. Holy crap. There's. You know, there's always been versions of it. Even though looking back, it seems like this is the most rapid enhancements. It's interesting to think about the perspective of. Totally. Yerasimos 00:38:39.390 - 00:38:59.030 I agree. I agree with you. But I. I think objectively, as best we can, we can say it's been the rapid change. I mean, look what's just happened with AI in like three months and how people. I mean, it's, you know, like, did all. Did every single person have a car in like a week? You know, when the car came, like, I feel like it wasn't as rapid, but anyways, we don't need to go. Lishui 00:38:59.030 - 00:39:02.830 Yeah, there were no gas stations. There was cars before there was gas stations. How do they do that? Yerasimos 00:39:02.910 - 00:39:15.330 Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, regardless, it's interesting to think about. Yeah. Every. Every generation is probably like, we're living in unprecedented times. We're living in unprecedented times, you know, when some major shift happens. Lishui 00:39:15.650 - 00:42:33.710 Here's the thing. Every one of us, this most moment in my life, so here I am. I've been controlling my. I've been muting and unmuting myself because I've been controlling your perception, or I'm hoping to control how you experience the noise in my. That's going on around me. And that's. That's me. Not exactly. That's. I'm in a. I'm in unprecedented territory. I'm. I'm somewhere. I'm. I'm not, like, just chilling in my pad, man, while I really. But this has this. On the one hand, this is problematic because it's a bit of an identity conflict, and it's. It's me taking responsibility for other people's experience, and it's deterministic and all that stuff. But on the other hand, we are having a conversation. I could not have had, I couldn't have had this conversation in 2016 because probably would have got all messed up with Skype or something like that. I would have not been able to make it work properly or I would have needed to rent a speaking PL place and then get tickets and put flyers up and like. And then thinking back to the 90s, trying to get these kinds of ideas out. No way. Right? So a big front has a big back is what I'm trying to say. And that's what every so called problem in life is, including biological conflicts. And so when we learn this GNM stuff and we're like, yay, cure for cancer. And then we start trying to understand them, then we discover, oh no, watch out for the tracks. Don't solve it. If it's been been going on for too long. Make sure you solve this before you solve that. The cancer is the healing phase. So you can't solve that cancer. You can't cure that cancer. It gets scarier and scarier and scarier. And then you realize, oh no, I. I had a sexual rejection. Everybody has, oh no, I had a territorial loss. Oh my God, does that mean I'm going to die of a. And people absolutely panic. And we're right back to square one of what we thought we were solving when we discovered the five biological laws. So we thought we were solving cancer. Then we learn how cancer works and we panicked further because we realized we're not trying to solve cancer, we're trying to solve experiences. And now we have to confront the real issue here is why do bad things happen to me? How could. Why am I being punished? Why doesn't everybody love me? Why is it so hard? I mean, it's the 21st century, we got the Internet. Why am I struggling over anything? Joel 00:42:35.560 - 00:42:41.800 I mean, you say, you say these things and all I can think of is like, self esteem, like honestly. Lishui 00:42:43.160 - 00:44:29.470 Yep. How do we get there? What's the beginning of solving all of the. And there's about 500 conflicts. There's about 500 little relays in the brain. There's about 500 sort of nuances to this question. All of them come down to existential isolation, every single one of them. That is the one of the three criteria for a Dirkhammer syndrome, which begins a biological conflict in the psyche. I would say that the first two criteria aren't actually that important. They are only relevant because they lead to the third criterion, which is the isolation aspect. And it's funny because most people, because we are, because of our deterministic upbringing Our mechanical determinism that we're swimming in. I mean it's the air we're breathing is mechanical determinism. And so we're going for. It's a shock. So if something's a shock and you weren't expecting it, that's what gives you cancer. And we've totally ruined it. It's useless to us now. We've got a new thing to be scared of, just like germs, toxins, carcinogens and so on. The only condition that matters to make a biological conflict in your psyche is existential isolation. I am away from home. I am, I'm floating in space. I got maybe 10 minutes of oxygen. Yep, that's existential isolation. And we do that in our psyche. It's a lie we tell ourselves. Joel 00:44:30.190 - 00:44:31.630 We're isolated from ourselves. Lishui 00:44:32.190 - 00:46:51.260 Yes. From the source of our being. Yeah. It's not about other people, Never has been. I think most of us are so constellated because there's. We're crowded. We don't have time alone to get to know each other. The solution is getting to a place of actually listening. This, by the way, is how you help other people. You just listen. Who do you want to be? Who do I want to be? While I'm blinded by this terrifying question of oh my God, how am I going to be saved? Because I feel like existential isolated, which I made up in my own mind and I'm blaming it on some external circumstance or person or event. All of that is this huge complex drama playing out. And behind it all is who do I want to be? Because if I can connect with that again and if I could have the self esteem to allow myself to be who I want to be, my conflict is solved. And it doesn't matter if it's gone on for nine months or 900 years, which by the way, many conflicts do. They go on for generations. Because we, and this is what's going on with the schizophrenic constellations is we are getting, we get developmentally arrested. If we have a two temporal lobe conflicts at the same time or simult like 1, 2, not solved, we're not going to have them necessarily at once, but we'll get one and then we'll get the other one. And if we have that before we're mature, we, we're developmentally arrested at that stage. So what happens when developmentally arrested people are having children and then conveying all their woes and I and scary existential feelings onto their kids and so on and so we're getting developmentally younger and younger and there is, there is a huge surge of narcissism and all the other personality stuff because we're, we are getting younger and younger and younger. This is how civilizations actually collapse. Joel 00:46:52.060 - 00:48:09.170 Wow. This is, I, I love this angle. I love what you're speaking into. And you know, it's like Nathaniel Brandon, the father of self esteem, in my opinion. He puts together six practices, you know, which form the pillars of self esteem. But he defines self esteem on a basic level as the feeling of competence to deal with the basic challenges of life, you know, and how many of us feel appropriate or actually fit for life in that sense? And I don't necessarily mean just in the sense of, oh, I've got, you know, my material resources fulfilled, I'm going to work, I'm getting the checkbook, I'm putting food on the table, I'm, I'm surviving, quote unquote nice. When I think of being fit for the challenge of life, it's like fit for also the challenge of my unique being, my unique soul, my unique purposes, my unique wants, my unique desires. And if there's a conflict and a contradiction where I'm living a life that doesn't feel aligned, I have deeper desires, dreams, etc. But they're oppressed because they don't feel possible for me. Or it feels as though, you know, my entire reality would have to be shaken up for me to become that person. Then like, that's not really fit or appropriate for the unique life that you're living. And hence everything that we're speaking to follows. Lishui 00:48:12.370 - 00:49:43.730 The greatest danger in any special biological program, at any stage of any special biological program program is the edema, it's the holding the water, especially in the brain. But why do we hold the water? We hold the water because we're little ring form CRE creatures at heart. We're little bobbing in the ocean, totally in the arms of Mother Ocean and being directed through life by father, Father, God. So I'm kind of bringing in a masculine, feminine polarity here because this is really important because this is something we have to get straight civilizationally. It's a big part of this. What happens when that little ring form creature flops up on the beach there. They don't know which way the water is, they don't know when the water's coming. And so they hold water. And that's what every biological conflict involves at this, at the tissue level and at the brain level. And that's where the mechanical danger of special biological programs Comes in if there's going to be a mechanical danger. And that's the only danger there is of these things mechanical. But the moment we reconnect with mother Ocean and father God, the water's released. We don't need to hold on to it anymore. Yerasimos 00:49:44.530 - 00:49:45.010 Wow. Lishui 00:49:45.170 - 00:50:32.020 So this is the solution to every biological conflict of every kind. But we can't get there till we get back into the psyche. And this is, it's totally a self esteem issue. Who am I? What is my God? Who do I want to be? Because we, the whole point of being born is to take on a challenge and then if, and then our culture is teaching us it's getting busy immediately. Oh dear. Like, well, okay, from. Honestly from the, the stick, the P stick. Having the plus sign on starts prevent this from happening, prevent that from happening. And then, and then when something does happen. Oh my God. How stupid were you? Joel 00:50:34.020 - 00:51:41.940 Yep. I mean it just, it's, it's resonating so much. Everything you're sharing, like a quote we often share often. You know, Henry David Thoreau, the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. And I think about this quiet desperation in terms of this ring formation creature analogy that you're speaking into. Exiting the ocean, just being utterly defenseless, utterly helpless. You know, like literally like the fish out of the fish out of water. Like who am I? Where am I? What's going on? And like this is the state of being for the masses of men as we observe the world around us. And it's, it's so existential and it's like purpose. The simple idea of having purpose and feeling purpose and waking up each morning and feeling connected to something greater than ourselves as creative beings. And we don't, we don't have that. That has actually for most people has nowhere to go. Because straight away we get stuck into the mundane, into the anti life life that we've built for ourselves. Lishui 00:51:44.500 - 00:54:34.050 Something occurred to me. So the protests, right, the protests, that's all identity politics. It's people with like massive identity conflicts. So they're all over in somebody else's business trying to rescue. And that gives themselves a sense of okay, I belong now. And it's, it's really, really trying to solve a very scary survival feeling. An existential isolation problem. Right. As all conflicts are. When the convoy came through, it came from the west and came to Ottawa, across Canada. My son and I got out and joined them and followed them for about an hour and we were both crying with joy. It was, it was such a relief to feel something real. Finally Happening. It didn't matter where it went. It didn't even matter if it was right or wrong. Just that sense of people caring about something and having sovereignty. I want this. I stand for this. The details didn't matter. Just this joyous, I love you. Let's do it. Let's make something happen feeling. It was. It was a turning point. And it spread. It spread everywhere. It was quiet, the spread. And government did eventually slam down on it and so on, but we knew after that, we knew. I feel sad for people who are still lost. They're still in the identity stuff. And I believe it. I believe. I mean, the really loud people, the really obnoxiously conflicted people. I don't know, maybe 20 of people, I'm guessing, because there's been a huge awakening. There's this very quiet but growing majority. I believe at least. Maybe I just want to believe that. Maybe I'm just being Pollyanna about it. But there is an awakening going on. There's. There's two things going on at once. There's the. The reset and the awakening. They're both happening. The. The clamping down and the going full crazy is also continuing. It's got. I guess that program needs to reach its natural conclusion. It's not going to be turned back, but at the same time, people are waking up and waking up and waking up. So it's an evolution of humanity. But what that means is either we're in an epic crisis or there's one coming. Joel 00:54:36.370 - 00:54:38.370 So can you speak more into that? Lishui 00:54:39.890 - 00:56:39.710 We have to have an epic crisis. When. When you drop a. So you picture a still pond of water and you drop a rock into it. First the water pulls back away. There's a resistance. And that's what every biological conflict is. It is a resistance to a reality we don't like. It's all happening in the psyche, and so is the reality, by the way. We. We don't know actual reality. We only know what our senses tell us that we then interpret with our psyche. So it's all like. It's 99.9% happening in our mind. The bad event is what we made of it. Right then we. The water, kind of. The surface tension breaks and the rock is accepted into the pond and there's rushing back. The water rushes back and. And this big splash comes up right in the center. And then that turns into a droplet which then lands and we have the whole thing happen again, but maybe half as big this time. And then another little droplet comes up in the middle and then it lands and maybe half a bit, half as big again. So epicrisis in how it actually occurs with a special biological program tends to be like a basketball that we're bouncing the ball and then we stop, we, we leave it alone. It's not going to go one more bounce and it's done. And so we need to be ready for that. But because we live in this deterministic culture that's terrified of everything in G and M, we are prone to getting in there, stop it, stop bouncing. How do I cure this? How do I stop this healing phase? How do I, how do I prevent this? Joel 00:56:40.430 - 00:56:42.110 Even when the blowback is natural? Lishui 00:56:42.670 - 00:57:43.390 Yes, but the, you know, biology is based on physics and chemistry. Like the rules can't break just because we're, we're humans and we're super smart or whatever. We need our epic crisis because we need a little, a little shock or we will go into La La land and stay there. We'll just get more and more philosophical and we'll go deeper and deeper and deeper into the healing phase until there's no point. Physics requires something to turn us around and head us back to some, some kind of practical reality again. And we literally need a bit of a spasm to shock our brain, really. So that's the biological main purpose of the epic crisis is, is at the brain level. We got to get the water out, we got to get the edema out. So a little, little cattle prod to get you out of, out of the hammock. Joel 00:57:43.870 - 00:57:44.350 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:57:44.590 - 00:58:19.890 Lesui, you hear so often, like, people, I have brain cancer, they go in for surgery, they cut their whole head open. And very often, like, you know, maybe they last a little longer or they don't last at all. Like, is brain cancer just getting a test at a certain time where, like the scan is showing that there's like a lot of edema in the brain. And so then they're like, you have brain cancer as opposed to. It's like the natural process of you're going through a bio, going through a special biological program, and it just happens to be that they're taking a snapshot photo and then diagnosing you with brain cancer. Lishui 00:58:20.530 - 01:00:21.730 Yeah, that's right. There's no such thing as brain cancer. It's either a big swelling because you accumulated a lot of conflict load by being intensely obsessed with the conflict or being obsessed for a really long time without break, or both. So this or you can also have a big swelling because even though you solve that conflict, you also have a giant existential isolation, that's active. That 10x is the swelling of a lot of things. It turns. It turns something you wouldn't even notice, like a sniffly stuffy nose into a sinus infection. It turns a little chubby cheeks on your butt into cellulose and lymphedema and all this stuff. It. Or lipodyma lifting. I forget the words. Anyway, so it's. It. It exaggerates. It turns little things into monsters. You could also have a lot of glia there. Glia is. We could think of it as the sort of the scar tissue. It's you starting over. And because you're a new you, after you solve a conflict, you're a new you. And at the psyche level, the epic crisis is a test. Did you really evolve? Are you really going to do things a new way now? Are you really seeing it in a new way? Are you going to go back to being a victim again? Most of us jump in there and start hitting that basketball. Stop it. Stop. So when the crisis comes, it feels like. It feels like the problems come back and we just, like, we jump. We fight it even harder and quicker this time. And that's what allergies are. That's what tracks are. And so we're fighting against it. So what's going on is. Okay, the brain's like, all right, gotta go back to square one again. And glia is our new. Is how we make new brain cells. Right? Joel 01:00:22.610 - 01:00:23.090 Yeah. Lishui 01:00:23.810 - 01:00:38.680 So the more. The more of that we do, the more if we do that over and over, this one little relay in our brains, getting that 50 billion times, we keep doing that same conflict. It's there. It looks like a white spot on the CAT scan. It's the glia cells and. Joel 01:00:39.640 - 01:00:40.040 Yeah. Lishui 01:00:40.040 - 01:00:42.520 And then add some water and so on. Right. Joel 01:00:43.960 - 01:01:22.060 It's interesting because, like, I'm just. I feel like I'm applying GNM now esoterically in ways that I haven't before. And I'm really loving these new connections that are forming for me, so thank you so much. But it's like even, like esoterically, like, we tend to in our lives, circle over the same kind of problematic situations until we then learn to respond differently to them. You know, like, life keeps presenting us with similar challenges in just a new context until we figure it out. Then we move on to the next kind of stage. It's almost like what you're speaking of is like a biological microsm of this esoteric thing playing out in all our lives. Lishui 01:01:22.540 - 01:01:24.260 It totally is, as within. Yerasimos 01:01:24.260 - 01:01:24.780 So without. Joel 01:01:25.500 - 01:01:26.780 I Haven't heard that before. Lishui 01:01:27.500 - 01:01:44.190 It's like, super interesting. It's far more interesting than any of the crap we make up that we like out there crusading against. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to prevent conflicts or like, nonsense. Right. It's much better than the stuff we dream up in our schizophrenia. Yerasimos 01:01:44.590 - 01:02:53.800 It's, it's really interesting to think about, you know, the stage that allopathy is in and, and how it's grown and all this focus on diagnostics and coming in for a test three times a year. Like, if almost. If I could snap my fingers and go, those diagnostic tests, regular visits do not exist. Like, I feel like mortality rates would, would lessen because it's like people are going in, they're getting these snapshots like I talked about with the brain or whatever, and then they're being diagnosed with something which is having its own impact on the psyche. Yeah, it's just, it's just wild to me. Like, it's like that. I don't know if it was Gary Null that wrote that piece a long time ago. Death by medic. And it's like the, the levels of death by medicine. Sure, we can go, oh, I went to the hospital and they gave me medication. I did that. And it impacted me. But like, this deeper layer of, like, how it, ultimately that seed is planted that leads to death, we don't, it doesn't have to be, you know. Lishui 01:02:53.960 - 01:02:54.440 Yeah. Joel 01:02:55.400 - 01:02:56.840 And like, even we don't have to. Lishui 01:02:56.840 - 01:03:13.520 Do the 70 to 90 years of, of the exact same year, 70 to 90 times, we don't have to do that and we don't have to do the same one that the other nine or eight billion people did. We don't have to. But, boy, it feels scary for some reason. Joel 01:03:15.119 - 01:03:28.780 But even like, just the idea of being endlessly scheduled to be diagnosed, it's a conflict that's never resolved because there's always this ongoing underlying fear of, is this next appointment going to be the one when I get that bad news, which is just always running in the. Lishui 01:03:28.780 - 01:03:36.060 Background, and who's the God there? Who's the God there? When. When you go and you get patted on the head and told you did a good job. Joel 01:03:36.220 - 01:03:36.620 Yeah. Lishui 01:03:36.620 - 01:03:37.740 What's going on there? Yerasimos 01:03:39.420 - 01:03:45.260 Yeah, there's a lot of correlations between, like, the medical field and the church and priests and. Lishui 01:03:45.500 - 01:04:28.830 Yeah, yeah. Like, it's one of, it's one of my milestones, actually. It's like when I, when I discovered that the, the waste reduction in the residential sector was just people dumping their garbage at Work instead of. The same thing happened to me when I. When I noticed how cancer works. Cancer screening. So in 1913, funny how many things happened around then. But when Rockefeller was making the medical system be all about the. His, you know, his beautiful new farm, he's turning the dye industry into pharma using petroleum products. Right. And the banking system and all the other cool things that happen in 1913. Joel 01:04:28.990 - 01:04:30.470 Such a cool year. So cool. Lishui 01:04:30.470 - 01:04:34.830 Yeah. And the Cancer Society started. Biggest charity in the world by far. Yerasimos 01:04:34.910 - 01:04:36.270 Oh, it started in 1913. Lishui 01:04:36.430 - 01:04:37.070 Yep. Yerasimos 01:04:37.070 - 01:04:38.190 Whoa. I didn't know that. Lishui 01:04:38.190 - 01:06:38.770 Coinky dink. At that time, something like 1 in 8,000 people were diagnosed with cancer. If you had cancer, you had about a 4,5% chance of surviving. And the Cancer Society started to spread awareness and to get people in there getting checked so that they would. The idea is if you catch it early, that's the best way to cure it, right? Catch it early. Has anybody really looked into that? Because I don't think that's right. But anyway, By the time of the war on cancer, it was now being diagnosed. Like 1 in 31 in 20 people were getting diagnosed with cancer because they were getting screened because of the awareness had gone up because of the American Cancer Society. And the cure rate was still probably maybe 20%. Now, at least here in Canada, the US has got more heart disease and Canada's got more cancer. But we're in the realm of one in three of us getting diagnosed with cancer. And it's actually one in six women and half of men are getting diagnosed with cancer or expected to be. And the survival rate is a little over 50%, maybe around 60% ish. Is that right? No, I got it backwards. It's around 42%. 42%? I think so, yes, the survival rate is much higher. It's gone from 5% to almost 40%. Yeah. Yerasimos 01:06:38.770 - 01:06:49.530 But yeah, 5% of 1 in 8,000 people versus. Versus 42% of 16 people or 1 in. Yeah, like, do the math. Lishui 01:06:49.930 - 01:07:20.310 When I did that math, I was like, oh, my God, why doesn't everybody see this? Why doesn't everybody see this? And of course, then my Iatrophobia started, because that's my thing. I love having phobias. I was like, why would I go looking for this? I'll tell you why. Because I'm getting letters in the mail. I'm getting marketing messages, I'm getting hits on in conversations, on TV shows, on, like, everywhere I look. It's like the. It's the core of most dramas. It's the. Yerasimos 01:07:20.310 - 01:07:49.960 Yeah. But again, again, foundational self esteem, nervous system regulation, that's all that propaganda and all that stuff is just gonna go, oh, okay, I'm noticing a thing. All right, y' all enjoy that. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna live my life, you know, and all. I mean, obviously education plays into it as well. I mean, having self esteem along with education around, like, what's really happening and what's going on. Allopathy and understanding the five biological laws. But generally speaking, like, it's gonna, that propaganda is gonna impact a person differently ultimately in my. Joel 01:07:50.440 - 01:08:31.930 But like, self education is a natural consequence of self esteem. When you're presented with a thing that might not necessarily fit into your model of reality, you're going to go seek to educate yourself about that thing and then make an appropriate decision about it. But when you don't have self esteem, then you're presented with fear and propaganda, you're just going to outsource your power and your mind through the thing and not seek the education. So the relinquishing of our minds happens in the process as a byproduct of poor self esteem. And there's degradation over hundreds of years now, you know, of us relinquishing connection to self, to God, to nature, to our own power source and handing it over to the materialist. Lishui 01:08:32.650 - 01:08:46.490 Thank God my rescuer is finally here. Yeah, I got a croak, but yeah, at least there's some explanation. And I, I now I have an identity. I'm. I'm X. Yes, such and such. Joel 01:08:48.240 - 01:08:50.800 So the bubble, the bubble wrap is suffocating you. Lishui 01:08:51.200 - 01:08:55.040 Yeah, yeah. Who do I want to be, though? Who do I want to be instead of this? Yerasimos 01:08:56.240 - 01:09:29.699 Yeah. What is your thought on this statement? We've had conversations on it. Like, whether on a, On a more micro level or some cosmic level, like, you get what you deserve. Like that statement, people say, like, I get what I deserve. I know some people have issues with the word deserve, but just in this, in this idea of, like, what. What do I need to work through? What do I need to grow? What do I need to. What lesson do I need in life? You know? And it kind of almost gets you a little bit. I don't want to say out of the victim state, but it's just like, listen, there's a reason why this happened now. What comes from it now. Lishui 01:09:29.939 - 01:12:58.510 Yeah, There's a 1, 2, 3 mechanism that's going on here in our deterministic culture. One, I don't feel good about something. I've got a conflict. I feel unhappy I'm less than happy now. Happiness and health, perfect well being. That is our essential, basic natural self. But sometimes we don't feel that way. Sometimes I'm not in a mindful state. And so that's the first step. Something happens that I don't like or I feel a way I don't like, then what's going on in my mind because of the culture that I'm in, the culture, the mind that I grew and developed based on the materials I was given is I look for something to blame. And so I look for, okay, what's wrong? What's going on out there? And then I go and I try to fight that or cope with it, or transform it, or change it, but I'm working over there, I'm not working back here where the problem really is. And the thing is a, a problem is a good thing. I make a problem for a reason. I, it's, it's something my psyche is doing. I make a problem for a reason. It's so that I can overcome it. And I'm never going to overcome it as long as I'm over there coping with reality and dealing with it. So when I say you deserve that, I could be saying, this is your punishment because you did something stupid. I could be saying, you're a really nice person, here's your reward. But hopefully what I'm saying is you created this for your evolution and you were brilliant to create this for your evolution. It's a challenge, it's a challenging idea. You deserve this. Because mostly we start out thinking, no, I, I don't want this. And we're over there trying to fix this. If I realize this thing that I don't, that I deserve or don't deserve, I created like the idea of deserving. I also created that the whole thing is in my psyche. No, I, I don't actually choose physical outcomes. I choose what I desire. I choose the actions I'm going to take. Maybe a lot of them are not conscious, but I don't choose the actual outcomes. So that's physics, Right. If I drop the basketball, I don't choose whether it bounces or not. That's up to physics. Joel 01:12:59.710 - 01:13:09.710 But in, in, in knowing physics, you can kind of pre determine or take a best guess at what might happen following any particular action. Lishui 01:13:10.060 - 01:13:49.510 Right? Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to drop this ball. So, you know, my hand goes out and slaps somebody. Yeah. Let's say I chose that. Let's say I did that. Do I choose whether they hit me back or not? Do I choose whether their tooth falls out or not? Do I choose whether they fall to their knees and apologize? Because now they've finally seen the truth and how much they should have listened to me in the first place. That's what I really wanted when I did it. Yerasimos 01:13:49.750 - 01:13:51.430 Some people just need a good smack in the face. Lishui 01:13:51.430 - 01:13:55.590 Some people? Yeah. Some what? How do you say. You got to say the Sean Connery. Yerasimos 01:13:55.830 - 01:13:57.590 Oh, yeah. Yeah. I love that interview. Joel 01:13:58.630 - 01:13:59.430 Oh, yeah. Lishui 01:14:00.070 - 01:14:21.090 I guess I'm pretty hardcore Jenner. Like, I'm pretty hardcore Gen X because my mother was pretty hardcore entitled boomer, and she's a single mom and so, like, neglectful as a parent. But it was cool. It was okay to be that way. And I'm just like. So many times I've thought, oh, this woman just hurts over. Yerasimos 01:14:21.730 - 01:14:27.490 Well, I think it's just like. It's like, listen, I don't know. There's parts of that interview that I'm like, yo, like, you. Joel 01:14:27.490 - 01:14:28.850 You tell context. Lishui 01:14:29.730 - 01:14:30.290 Yeah. Yerasimos 01:14:30.530 - 01:14:31.130 I don't know. Joel 01:14:31.130 - 01:14:32.850 Do you want to give context of this interview? Yerasimos 01:14:34.690 - 01:14:42.610 Barbara Walters interviewed Sean Connery, and I think Sean Connery was having some, like, history of, like, he said, sometimes it's okay to smack a woman. Lishui 01:14:42.610 - 01:14:46.370 Like what every woman needs. Every woman needs sometimes a good slap. Yerasimos 01:14:46.450 - 01:15:07.900 There you go. I like. I like your impression. And I think he kind of goes like, you know, you're trying to explain, you're trying to share things, you're trying to be rational. You're like, they just don't stop. They need the last word. They need the last word. They need the last word. He's just like, you know, sometimes a little smack in the face. Now, I would probably handle it differently, but I also understand what he's probably says. Lishui 01:15:08.460 - 01:15:08.940 Probably. Yerasimos 01:15:08.940 - 01:15:17.660 I mean, you could ask Sophie. I've never smacked her in the face, you know, but, like, you know, this. Oh, no, this is gray area. This gray area. Lishui 01:15:18.220 - 01:15:19.740 Dark. We're getting dark here. Joel 01:15:20.140 - 01:15:20.620 Yeah. Lishui 01:15:20.700 - 01:15:21.060 Yeah. Yerasimos 01:15:21.060 - 01:15:27.010 But I love delving in these little areas and having these kinds of conversations. People love to get, like, they like to throw out nuance. Lishui 01:15:27.490 - 01:16:25.000 And, you know, every biological conflict in your psyche is you giving yourself a schlap because you need it. Every DHS is a slap because you need it. Why? Because you want it to be something different. You want to be better than this. And at your soul level, you know what you want to be, and you know you're not that. And so whatever grist comes into your mill is what you're going to use. And you slap your old self to wake your Old self up so your old self will get off the hammock and do the hard, embarrassing, awkward, you know, humiliating, scary stuff. You won't do it otherwise. But you don't get to be the new evolved version of you until you have that slab. You have to. It's physics, the power. Joel 01:16:25.480 - 01:16:30.360 There's no growth without friction. There's no evolution without pressure. Like, this doesn't happen. Lishui 01:16:30.920 - 01:16:31.320 Yeah. Joel 01:16:31.320 - 01:17:46.830 You know, you know, another thing I was thinking of as we talk about this macro idea of identity conflicts, and I think about the conflict of like altruism and this idea that we just need to be endlessly selfless and that this inorganic idea that internal happiness is somehow connected to my selflessness and my ability to be selfless. And so we put ourselves on the back burner, we give all our energy to other people. And then society, religion, the culture tells us this makes you a good person and happiness follows you being this quote unquote good person. Right. But then it's like contradictory. It's a life itself. And so people enter this people pleasing cycle of just always thinking, I'm the nice guy, I'm the good girl, I'm the whatever it might be, whatever you need, anything, whatever it is. Right. And thinking happiness is eventually going to come for us. But it's like there's this root conflict where I keep doing this thing, I keep, you know, sacrificing myself for everybody else and then life doesn't reward me in any kind of real way. And it's like, what's that doing to the masses? Like the programming of religion, the programming of altruism, this faux morality that we're,. Lishui 01:17:47.550 - 01:17:50.110 Yeah, that's about devaluation. Joel 01:17:50.670 - 01:17:51.150 Yeah. Lishui 01:17:52.190 - 01:19:08.500 What's going on when I tell a little kid who comes home crying about whatever happened and they, they're, they're trying, they're like, they're crying because I, I, the kid is thinking, I know I don't accept this. And I need, I need to grow part of my brain somehow that I, that I'm a different person in the, when this kind of crap happens. That's what development is. That's what evolution is. What happens to that kid when the parent says, well, what did you do wrong? Wrong? Why did you make them treat you that way? Why did, what did you do to make the teacher? Or what could you do to make the teacher be nicer to you? What? That. This is what's going on. This is developmental arrest. When the kid's like, oh, oh, if I, if I try to address my anger, if I Try to address my sense of rejection. That gets me another slap. Now the kids disconnected from themselves, so I had to go back to blaming my parents there for a bit. But I, Yeah, no, but it's like. Yerasimos 01:19:08.500 - 01:19:21.020 The learn, the learned behavior that people call the fallen response too. It's like, oh, let me, let me just make sure, let me walk in eggshells, make sure everyone's okay. And then I'll be accepted into the tribe, I'll be accepted in the family, I won't be yelled at. Lishui 01:19:21.020 - 01:19:51.240 Etc. Religion is also teaching us this and it's providing us with outlets. It's providing, oh, you need to go slap somebody. Here's a, here's a justifiable reason to go slap. So this religion can go slap atheists or maybe atheist religion can go slap the Christians or something. It's. But it's, it's the means by which we are disconnecting from our essential self. Self. It always happens through devaluation. Joel 01:19:51.640 - 01:19:53.000 Yeah, yeah. Lishui 01:19:53.080 - 01:19:57.120 Has to happen through an attack on the self esteem. And this is how we're learning it. Joel 01:19:57.120 - 01:19:57.560 Yeah. Lishui 01:19:57.800 - 01:20:02.040 And we're, and then we're learning, I can't solve my conflicts because I'll die. Joel 01:20:03.719 - 01:20:22.420 Yeah. And like new, New age spirituality does this as well, but just on the other side of the, on the other side of the spectrum. Oh, someone actually did wrong by you. You're actually feeling the urge to slap someone. No, no, that's just your ego trying to move you away from spirit. Don't listen to that voice. Don't act upon that conflict. Conflict, conflict, conflict. Lishui 01:20:23.060 - 01:20:40.820 Yeah. In what way were you being that way yourself? Embrace the shadow of that and. Yeah, no, it's good, it's good if you can, it's good if you can, but at least be kinder to the part of you that wants to slap somebody. Yerasimos 01:20:41.370 - 01:21:26.560 Exactly. It's like you have to build a relationship with the complexity of who you are. It doesn't mean you act on those things. But you go, oh, hey, I know you want to punch this person in the face or choke them out, but like, that probably won't be a good thing to do because you might end up in prison, you know, but is there a way for you to move that through you? Move that impulse through you without causing any excess harm in a certain situation. Like, I'm not a fan of repression. I'm a fan of like discernment, you know, Like, I'm a fan of like knowing yourself in all the glory and nuance of who you are. The light, the dark, the shame, the Anger, the joy, the silliness, the perversion, whatever, and hopefully responding appropriately to life, which is a highlight of self esteem. Lishui 01:21:26.800 - 01:23:55.970 Yep. It's. You got to go through it, not away from it. And this is, this is one of the most important things that needs to be understood. When we're learning GNM stuff, we, when we take the determinism into gnm, we're just, we're replacing germs and toxins and stuff with shocks and DHS's. And this leaves us with a very flaccid response of find the dhs, find the event and then you find it. And this is supposed to solve doesn't, because finding who to blame isn't the solution. Feeling our urge to what I want to do to that person, feeling my shame, feeling my rage, feeling what do I want instead. That's where the solution comes. We have to actually feel the pain of these things. That's the reason we created them. But the way our psyche works is that. Sorry, the way our brain and our tissues work is. Oh, that feels bad. Avoid. Oh, that feels bad. Avoid. And it stays a 2 year old, it stays ID forever. But you, you are not a brain, psyche and body. They are something you are doing. So this is the game we have to play. We have to take total charge of ourselves. If I have a problem, if I'm anything other than deliriously happy and healthy and excited and whatever, whatever my version of perfect is, if I'm anything other than that, then rather than painting a positive thinking, happy New Agey smile on my face, I need to go into what exactly is the problem here? Not what happened to me that I'm a victim of, but what, what am I actually unhappy about? What is the problem? Because as soon as we do that, we are now looking at, instead of resisting a piece of reality that we. Joel 01:23:55.970 - 01:24:09.210 Have been trying to avoid, we're, we're turning towards reality. We're bringing more light of our consciousness towards reality, towards facts. And there's always healing in that, even when it's hard to look at at times. Lishui 01:24:10.330 - 01:24:32.180 Yeah. And then we got it. Then we're winning. We're going through. So it's, it's, it's like the power of negative thinking. What's the problem? What's the problem? What am I not totally happy about here? Yeah. Having the strength of having the maturity to, to do that. Now you're winning. Joel 01:24:32.900 - 01:24:33.420 Yeah. Yerasimos 01:24:33.420 - 01:24:56.120 It's really interesting when you think about G M and people that get exposed to it and how people talk about it like, oh, I tried gmn, I tried G M, I tried that modality. It didn't work. Or like, I didn't. I don't have any conflicts, you know, Like, I've done. I've done emotional work. You know, it's just like, it's the oversimplification even of even that, you know, where you're almost looking, looking for a quick fix. Lishui 01:24:56.440 - 01:24:56.840 Yeah. Yerasimos 01:24:56.840 - 01:25:33.820 Because you did the thing. And it's not like for me, when I came across Dr. Hamer's work, like, it just. It gave me more self agency. Like I like took more self responsibility and, and moved further and further away from fear as opposed towards it, you know, like, and it's made me more curious. So, yeah, I mean, it's definitely been a benefit in my life, but I get it. Depending on what you're conflicted about or what constellations you're running, you can take information and then process it in a certain way or apply it to your life in a certain way. So, yeah, it's interesting to think about things in that way. Lishui 01:25:34.620 - 01:26:05.440 Once you do get through, once you do think about things that way and then kind of work it through to the other end, through the epic crisis, to this. And you become this new way of seeing things and this new way of responding to stuff. Then you look back and you re. You have this almost gratitude for even the shittiest things because you realize, wow, I'm. I'm really awesome. I just think I'm awesome because I'm this person now. Yerasimos 01:26:06.880 - 01:26:15.760 Yeah. People often ask, like, oh, what are some amazing experiences in your life? And I tend to like, list the ones that were very often that were the most painful. Joel 01:26:16.400 - 01:26:16.840 Yeah. Lishui 01:26:16.840 - 01:26:17.280 Yep. Yerasimos 01:26:17.520 - 01:26:53.530 Because they led me to something. They led to an evolution that brought me closer to this person that I am. And, And I, I have such gratitude for it. Even if while I was going through was horrible, there was still like a piece of me that was like, this is the medicine that you need. Like, I had that part of me. Like, this is what is required of you to grow and evolve and be who you want. But yeah, like, like, sure, I could say, oh, I was. I sat on a beach all day. That was my greatest experience. Oh, it was beautiful. It was nice. But like, what really moved the needle forward was, were those tough moments. Lishui 01:26:53.930 - 01:26:54.330 Y. Yerasimos 01:26:55.130 - 01:26:56.490 Those personal reckonings. Joel 01:26:56.730 - 01:26:59.690 That's the. The fifth biological law in action, right? Lishui 01:26:59.770 - 01:27:00.970 Yep, that's the one. Joel 01:27:00.970 - 01:27:05.130 There's nothing. Nothing malignant in nature. Like, everything serves a purpose. Lishui 01:27:05.450 - 01:27:14.410 Yeah. It's meaningful in the context of your evolution, meaning you created that Meaning because you wanted to evolve in that way. Joel 01:27:14.810 - 01:27:20.660 Yeah. One of my favorite quotes, you know, Steve Jobs. You can't connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect the dots looking back. Lishui 01:27:20.900 - 01:27:42.670 That's right. Yeah, that's right. It's, it turns out to be the most beautiful philosophical system. If we can get past the deterministic crap that we, that it's like, it's, it's like turned up to 11 when we, when we first start learning the five biological laws and we have to deal with it. Joel 01:27:42.990 - 01:27:51.150 Yeah. Like, would you say in a sense, like this discussion around like identity conflict. Would you say this is the root of all conflicts in some sense? Lishui 01:27:52.350 - 01:29:45.020 I do think so. I think of it as a tree. I call it the mind tree. There's this existential severing. Suddenly I am no longer supported by life. Suddenly I'm, I'm only here by like extraordinary good luck. That's going to run out any second. So that, that's the start of it. And that's like the, the root. And then we, then we add qualities to it. Why am I going to not survive? Not enough food. I'm being physically attacked. I. There's not enough air for me to breathe. Like. So we have these core survival kind of very archaic animal level conflicts, but they're all just flavors of existential isolation. Then we feel a sort of shame because that's happening to us. If I'm the shiz, then why is that happening to me? And, and all of this, by the way, totally unconscious. But this is, this is kind of the, the growing tree of what's happening in our psyche. We start to feel a kind of impossible shame. And the self esteem problem begins of why am I existentially isolated? Why did God or life cut me off in particular? And that's the self devaluation. And this starts branching and branching and branching because it's stories we make up to explain. Well, if I had bigger tits, I would, you know, or if I was smarter or if Whatever. Joel 01:29:45.100 - 01:29:45.660 Yep. Yerasimos 01:29:45.820 - 01:29:47.340 Or if I wasn't circumcised. Lishui 01:29:47.580 - 01:29:48.060 Yes. Joel 01:29:50.630 - 01:29:50.870 Yeah. Lishui 01:29:50.870 - 01:29:52.550 If I got my cancer screenings. Joel 01:29:53.510 - 01:29:54.070 Yeah. Lishui 01:29:55.430 - 01:31:18.780 If I hadn't solved that conflict. Damn it. So those branch and branch and branch because they're bullshit. They're stories we've made up to explain and to give ourselves busy work. While I'm going to go off and get, you know, do what I got to do to make myself smarter and have bigger tits and fix my foreskin, whatever the stuff is, that'll, that's going to solve the existential isolation. Yeah, busy work. And then we relate. This is the leaves of the mind tree. Then we relate to the world as if all that crap is true. I still got to get my energy, I still got to get my food, my, my life sources. But I am this, I am this, this cut off, existentially isolated, flat chested, you know, that's my story. And I'm going to relate to you that way. And then you're going to slap me because that's, that's ridiculous. And then I'm going to have something, I'm going to go schizophrenic and I'm going to be off gluing my hands to the roads and stuff. And that's the mind, that's the mind stream. We have to work our way back through it. And where I'm at in this now is I'm back to like 3 and 4 years old kind of stuff. That's where I'm working these days. Yerasimos 01:31:19.100 - 01:31:19.460 Wow. Lishui 01:31:19.460 - 01:32:13.670 Like I, I was at a single mom and I was an only child and we, we moved a lot and I just always had this, I've never had a sense of being welcome and all my other crap has really grown out of that. And I've dealt with all my other crap. A lot of it I think. I don't know. We'll see. So the question was, is this identity conflict really the core? And I think it is because I think the identity conflict, now technically it's a temporal lobe conflict, it's a feminine temp, it's a, it's a yin conflict. But I think it goes all the way down. There's a self devaluation that I, I don't have a right to exist for some reason. And then underneath that is this I, I don't belong anywhere. And that's why I'm existentially isolated. That's why I'm floating in space desperately trying to get people to like me. Joel 01:32:15.590 - 01:33:06.290 Yeah, no, I appreciate that. Well, you're welcome here. I know you recently joined our community Friends of the Truth. You're so absolutely welcome there. We're so stoked to have you there too in a few way. A couple of weeks, yours Moss and I are hosting a workshop at Confluence. And the title of our workshop is called Self concept is Destiny. You know, and this whole idea that we're speaking to like it really is like self concept, like how do I perceive myself in the deepest layers of my being, you know, and that really I feel like sits at the foundation and the formation of all these things that we're speaking into. Where's the reputation that I acquire with myself? And then how is that reputation, for better or worse, manifesting externally to me? Lishui 01:33:08.610 - 01:33:10.930 Yeah, that's the whole tree right there. Joel 01:33:11.330 - 01:33:47.170 Yeah. In closing of this podcast, I kind of want to hearken back to something you mentioned earlier on if, if you're cool to discuss it. And you mentioned that you have a Down syndrome child. And so can you speak into potentially what you've learned in that process? I assume you would have gone through a process of trying to unravel, you know, down syndrome through a German new medicine lens, etc. Maybe for, maybe for anyone who's like going on this same journey or a similar journey I think would be. Yeah, really beautiful and powerful. Lishui 01:33:50.130 - 01:37:24.890 Well, like all hard things, we don't choose stuff that. Like this and we wouldn't choose it. But the. There is an astounding gift in it. I have learned so much because of my son's down syndrome. And, and it's, it's actually, it's a joke. It's hilarious what I've learned because I had a story about down syndrome before he was born, of course, and then it had to do with being smart. Right. And, and then what we should do. Like Iceland was celebrating a few years ago. They were celebrating because they had no down syndrome. Yay. Good for us. Well, how, how do they have no down syndrome? So tell me, how would one explain to a person with down syndrome what is genetic screening? What is amniocentesis? What's the purpose of it? How would you explain that to somebody like that? Down syndrome is. I don't want that information. That information is bad. And I, and I, I can't reconcile it and I don't want to. Don't say these stupid, stupid things. So it's a double hearing conflict and usually motor. And it's usually double motor conflict. I'm trapped because of this stupid, bad information. It, it begin the, the child has these conflicts at. Around. You can feel the baby already. So it's a, in the 3, 4 month range. I think that you, that you, that your baby has these conflicts and they, they hear something and they're like, this is ridiculous, I'm out of here. But they can't. And then the, and then because of the double hearing, it's happening in the cerebral cortex. And then the double motor is also in the cerebral cortex, but the double hearing causes immediate developmental arrest. So the child already is not maturing in their psychological development. And so if they still have these conflicts active when they're born, then they have down syndrome and then they, they have low muscle tone, so they have muscle paralysis and muscle weakness. And this causes things like their jaw is kind of slack. Depends which part of them felt the most trapped. And the double hearing conflict causes a. Usually speech stuff. My son's scores, when he was born, his apgar scores were 8 and 8 because he was perfectly healthy, but he didn't make a sound. And he was, he was like younger than a newborn in terms of his auditory pathway. And that's been most of the adventure has been his really unique experience with information and sounds. And sometimes it's too much. Sometimes he's just tuned it right out. Like, you know when you get really bad news and then the person keeps talking, you don't hear another thing afterwards. Yerasimos 01:37:25.550 - 01:37:25.830 That's. Lishui 01:37:25.830 - 01:42:05.040 That's what the hearing conflict is. I've. Where was I? Anyway, so the first really important thing I learned was how incredibly intelligent my. Not only my son, but everybody I ever met who had down syndrome. I'm sure there are some real idiot douchebags with down syndrome, but. But all the ones that I have met have been very, very clever people. Very smart and highly intelligent. And in that stoic kind of intelligent sort of a way. The. I'm listening to the undertones, reading between the lines kind of a way. The. Another problem, sorry, another conflict that's common with down syndrome is heart malformations. It's because of. Partly because of the stage of development where this all happens, and it's partly because of overwhelm, conflicts and self devaluation about being able to handle this. It's estimated that two thirds of humans are never born because they have a conflict. And then they're like, no, okay, that's good that that was enough of an experience for this round. And they're done. The most common survivable conflict in the womb is down syndrome. And I believe just from people I've met, basically is that this is an example of a person who is ready to really take on some deep challenges. And it's to do with information and being. And how much am I paralyzed by life and how much am I at? Cause that's the program, that's the evolution that people with down syndrome are working. And it's no mystery to me why the world wants to stamp things like this out, because it's very confronting for people who, who just want to paint a nice, happy, positive thinking, new age smile on life and who want to blame the world for their stuff. It's very confronting that somebody comes along and is okay with being. With working that particular path. With, like, who chooses to be seen as an idiot, who chooses to stay childish in certain ways, even though other people look with disdain on that. So for me, the biggest, biggest thing I got, my biggest evolution, was understanding that it's okay for us to exist and that we. Our lives are meaningful and valuable, and it has nothing to do with other people and what they think of us. It has to do with. I want to be alive, and therefore I'm alive, and it's my life, and I'm totally sovereign in that. I learned a ton of that from my son. Yeah, letting. For me, it was the big letting go of an identity conflict. We both seem to be working the. Because he loves videos and TV shows and stuff about family and creating family. So he loves the Ice Age because the mammoth and the sloth and they all get together and they don't really get along all that well, but they make a family. They make a herd. Shrek makes a herd with Donkey and then the princess and stuff. That's what he's into. He loves the storylines, always over the hedge, so we can tell what story he's working, what evolution he's working. And I've been working that, too. And then I learned a lot about genetics. So his dad and I both are prone to ear worms, and his dad much more so than I. But hearing conflicts and my. My panic disorder started because I had a hearing conflict on a. It started on a plane because I had a hearing conflict on a plane previous to that, and that's how my psyche put that all together. So we, you know, the. The little zygote started off with some of Dad's stuff that was up, and some of Mom's stuff was. That was up. And we both have kind of motor stuff going on a little bit. So I can see where he got it from, I guess. Joel 01:42:05.360 - 01:42:05.840 Yeah. Lishui 01:42:06.080 - 01:42:44.240 But everything from then on was his. That's when I started believing in this astrology stuff and karma and whatnot, because I was like, you can't intellectually create this. There's no way. The conscious mind. This is far too complex and brilliant of a story for the. For a conscious human mind to have come up with this, it has to be divine. It has to be coming from the essential self. All of that. That. That's like. That's a short version of what I've learned. Joel 01:42:44.240 - 01:42:44.920 No, thank you. Lishui 01:42:44.920 - 01:44:33.870 Because Perfect Down Syndrome is an absolute gift, but it's a gift that makes you go through your. Instead of sticking your fingers in your ears, like everybody else wants to do. You can't get away with it. Yeah, same with any difficult thing in life. And then, you know, your heart, your heart just. You want to just help this child to be a baby forever. And that's exactly the last thing. You know, it's very hard to give a baby with down syndrome a slap. But they need, you know, maybe not all of them, but certainly my son. He needs to be kicked out of the hammock. He needs his mommy to not bring him his breakfast. Sometimes he needs a little hardship because he's amazing at manipulating people into feeling sorry for him. It's depressing how good he is at that. In that way, I learned to have compassion for all people. Narcissistic personality disorder or any of those kinds of behaviors that they're really rigidly stuck in because they've. They've just been so good at manipulating people that I don't know if they can ever. I feel sad for them that they're so good at that because our, you know, I. Me not being good at that caused me to develop amazing skills and abilities and self love that I wouldn't have. I just wouldn't have bothered too hard if I had an easy way out like, oh, poor me. Feel sorry for me. And if it had worked. Joel 01:44:34.910 - 01:44:42.190 Yeah. Do you have a final message for anyone listening to this as we wrap this one up? Lishui 01:44:47.390 - 01:44:47.790 No,. Joel 01:44:49.710 - 01:44:53.230 That's cool. We dropped plenty of messages during it. Yeah. Lishui 01:44:53.810 - 01:44:57.570 Okay, here's one. Here's one. You don't have to heal forever. Joel 01:44:57.890 - 01:44:58.370 Yep. Yerasimos 01:44:58.370 - 01:44:58.850 Yeah. Lishui 01:44:58.850 - 01:45:18.530 You just have to get to the point of realizing your problems are created by you for your own purpose and you're going to evolve for them and it's going to be great. But no, you don't have to keep healing forever and you also don't do a big healing and you're done. No coasting. No coasting. Joel 01:45:20.540 - 01:45:35.340 Perfect. Mindtreehealth Co is your website. Are there any particular avenues that you'd like people listening to this to reach out to you via or how to connect with you or work with you? Your offers, anything you want to share with our audience. This is the place and time. Lishui 01:45:36.380 - 01:46:58.190 I like to help people one on one for sure. But I'm extremely limited of course in how many people I can help that way. So I would love if people check out my podcast, it's the Mind Over Symptom podcast, or check out a course. My most recent one is Core gnm and I would love people to learn the five biological laws for how they actually work and maybe we could sort of skip over or skip through quickly that switch into away from deterministic mechanistic thinking when it comes to our well being and start seizing control because that's how we're really going to feel better. And it's, it's worth it. I promise you it is worth it to solve our conflicts as unpleasant as it is. Most of you know our whole biology is trying to help us not feel them because it feels yucky. That's why we make our changes, our tissue and functional changes. Our brain is trying to protect us from those icky feelings. But once we, once we have our number, once we get this and we start embracing those icky feelings and using them for our evolution, man, it's fun and it's so worth it. And our self esteem goes right through the ceiling. Joel 01:46:59.230 - 01:47:05.630 Amazing. Lashui, thank you for being you. Thank you for joining us for this episode. Everyone else thank you for listening.