Kyree Oliver Don't Die Empty

Joel 00:00:02.480 - 00:00:41.210 Hi Re Oliver is a former Division 1 offensive lineman turned self taught marketer who's helped his clients generate over $250 million in revenue. And somewhere along the way he became a deeply trusted voice in men's work. Today he's interviewed over 1,000 people across four years, including the homeless, monks, serial killers, and including 65 end of life interviews with people who were dying. All of which had a major impact on what he thought actually mattered. He's a husband, father of two, and today he helps men have the uncomfortable conversation with themselves that they spend a lifetime avoiding. Kyrie, welcome to Here for the Truth. Kyree 00:00:41.770 - 00:00:43.290 Thank you man. Thank you guys for having me. Joel 00:00:44.010 - 00:01:05.580 Absolute pleasure, man. One way we always like to kick off these conversations is we really want to dig deep into your personal hero's journey. So some of the major rites of passage of the major catalyzing moments that really you feel led you down the path that you're on today. So wherever you feel called to begin man with how this journey kind of unfolds on the unique path that you find yourself on today. Kyree 00:01:06.700 - 00:04:54.460 Yeah, where it unfolds. Actually the. I think the earliest point I can actually point back to confidently is when I was about 6, I had a worm project. We were studying little worms in class in my first grade class and we were allowed to bring one of our parents to it. And so my mom worked all day, my dad worked nights. My parents had been divorced since I was two months old. And so my dad worked nights so he could come straight from work and come to my worm project. And I called him, I think a few days before, asked me if he could come. He was excited. My dad is six foot eight, gigantic black dude, looks like Shaquille o', Neal, like amazing, like the dad you'd want to walk in the door when you have a project to show off your dad, your friends. And I spent the whole project sitting by the door waiting for my dad to walk in. And it was the first time I'd been let down by my dad before. But it was the first time I'd been let down publicly. And it was embarrassing and it was again, I'd hyped this up for a few days at school. My dad's coming. My dad can be your dad up all the stuff that you would do as a six year old. And he just, he didn't show up. And it was the first time that showed up publicly to me, which. Which made it sting differently than it had before. It had always stung, but it made it something else. And I remember he came back because I wouldn't even leave, like the chair by the door. He was coming. He was definitely coming. And then he wasn't coming. Oh, maybe he's not coming. Oh, he really isn't coming. And he came by my house that night to apologize and he took me for a walk around the block and told me why. And it was, I don't know, car broke down, his alarm clock. He had like a rotation of excuses as to why he wouldn't show up to things. And I remember coming back in the house and telling my mom that I didn't think dad's car broke down or alarm clock broke, whichever one it was. And I. And I don't think it does most of the time. I just think it wasn't important or you fell asleep. And I think it was the first time I had told myself explicitly that there are other things more important than me. I think before it was like I would carry on the lie a little bit and that there were other things that were more important or just had priority over, over his time. And I think that kind of, like, as I have thought back kickstarted, that I'm gonna have to figure some of this out for myself. Like, that's not the place I go to figure out what, what grownups do and what good grownups do, I would say. And so I had to go through a whole bunch of stuff, not necessarily tied to my dad, but a lot of it was. I, I say nowadays, if I had had like a 70% dad, I wouldn't be doing the work that I do now, mostly with men. The lack thereof kind of created the hunger for what I do now. Like, I, I want to go figure out how to do this thing properly. And it's not like he abandoned us. It's not like he was abusive. He was just super inconsistent. I think he was battling with himself a lot of the time. It didn't work out like he wanted it to. He had myself and my brother. He also had another daughter that was 10 years older than I am. He had another daughter that was about seven years younger than me. And then now he actually has my 14 year old brother. And we have a pretty good relationship now. And so I think he's just been kind of competing with himself in a lot of different areas, but was never able to put a full life together that I saw. So I think that kind of set me off on wanting to figure out what this was. And it allowed me a focus that most people don't get because most people have at Least average dad or they have completely abandoned and don't have anything to. To read off of. And so it kind of was the kickstart to doing something like this. Now again I played football, I've done other cool things. I have a marketing company, we've done pretty well. But what I do specifically with the coaching work kind of was spurned off of that moment. Joel 00:04:56.220 - 00:05:15.620 Wow man, thank you for sharing, dude. Really appreciate that. Yeah, can you take us into like I guess maybe more of the journey as, as it went on into you becoming a high level athletes and what those experiences taught you and I guess where the shift happened along the way for you to move into personal development and marketing? Kyree 00:05:16.180 - 00:12:41.450 Yeah, I won't begrudge you guys with the long story. So I, I played division one football. I got a scholarship to play. I, a lot of my play was definitely I'm going to show, I'm going to show them that I'm worth showing up for. And that was in violence and that was in I'm going to be so good that you have to come. And it happened. Was I, I think a good thing and ended up being a negative thing. I guess in my own head was it my only worth showing up for when I'm performing really well? But I was bragged about and I was taken around to his friends and look at my son, he's a junior and he's got these many scholarships. Oh, he just got this scholarship like it was, it gave me the reward I was looking for. But then it also, it made me question things because it makes you question things. Am I only being valued for my performance? So I go off to college. Very, very long story, very, very short. I ended up being physically abused by some of my teammates. It started off as fights on the field. I was mouthy, I was a freshman and I was in a starting position over six other guys at my position specifically. So I start mouthing off and you don't mouth off in places like that. And so a lot of it was like very seniority based. We've been here, we put in the time and I just didn't subscribe to that. I'm at a smaller Division 1 university, I'm not at Auburn, LSU, Alabama. And so in my mind, because I had offers from schools similar to that, I'm here for two years and then I'm just gonna go to the NFL. And so I kind of had that in my mind. And that came with an arrogance that ended me in some deep water that goes on for a few months on and Off. But I ended up super depressed. I ended up with insomnia. I ended up like I was wake up with night terrors. I got to a point where one night I went and bought a knife and I almost killed one of my teammates. I was resolute in that. I'm 18. I have to solve my problems now because I'm a grown man, which is hilarious now at 32, that at 18, I was a grown man. And I have to solve all my own problems all on my own. Nobody's allowed to know about it. Nobody's allowed to help me with it. This is what I have to do. Because what's going on right now, it can get worse, it can get better, but it has to change. I cannot keep happening what is happening right now. Something, thankfully, I'm walking through campus flipping this knife open and closed, and I bought it big five. And it was. I think it was $12 and 56 cents, if I remember correctly. I'm flipping open, closing something somewhere told me to call my best friend. He was my trainer in high school. He's 10 years older than me. He played in the NFL. He went through his own kind of version of this, like elevated hazing, we'll call it. But I ended up with, like, broken ribs and a broken eye socket and broken nose. And so I called him. And I could not say words on the phone. I'm literally sobbing into the phone. I don't even remember anything that he said other than nothing is bad enough where you can't just come home. And he's like, I'll help you ship your stuff back. Like, you can go find another place. You're a good athlete. You can go find somewhere else to go. And I had never considered it up to that point that that was an option, that leaving was an option. Again, I'm a grown man now, and I have to solve my own problems the way that I know how. And so moving home, depression, obviously. Insomnia, obviously. But I couldn't say anything to anybody. I couldn't tell anybody what had happened. He was the first person probably six months after I moved home that I could tell what happened. I was working at his gym, and he was very good at being understanding of where I was coming from. But he was very resolute in, you now have to go do something with this. Yes, it happened. I'm sorry it happened. And you're supposed to go do something with this. And I don't know what. And I think probably that night he had bought me or brought downstairs maybe a Copy of Man Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. Still my favorite book. I sent it to every single client I've ever worked with. Essentially you get to choose what things that happen to you mean to you. Super, super short dummy explanation of that book. But it is incredible. I still read it at least once a year. I used to read it once a quarter. You get new things out of it based on where you are in life right now. And it kind of showed me, okay, I'm supposed to do something that didn't happen for nothing. I'm going to choose that it didn't happen for nothing and that it happened to my benefit. Now what is that benefit? And I knew I wanted to help people in some way, shape or form. I'm not built and made this way just to be able to hit people on a football field. I know there was something more than that, but I didn't know what that was. And I also knew nobody's going to take a 19 year old seriously at the time. And so one thing I knew was I needed to go build a real life business that nobody can argue with. That was my marketing business. But I only wanted to learn marketing so that I could learn how to be a better coach and how to market myself as a coach. I started interviewing people because he started interviewing people for a speech that he was doing. I just kept going. And so I started off with 20 people. I would ask them 20 questions and then it turned into co workers and friends, families and oh, this, that, this guy's uncle's a lawyer. That'd be interesting to talk to a lawyer. This guy's dad's a doctor. That'd be interesting to talk to a doctor. I was driving for Lyft and Uber for extra work. I was working a special ed and I was helping my friend with his gym on the weekends. And I just talked to anybody I could possibly think of. Now there, some of these were 20, 30 minute conversations, some of them turned into two or three hour conversations. And then when I got more in depth, especially the end of life interviews, those were, I think my longest one was like seven and a half hours. And I just was obsessed with why people become who they become. What are the patterns that I can draw? And then it started off selfishly, what can I learn about myself? Like, I think I can draw patterns from what makes people successful in life in all these different areas, not just financially, but what makes a man like be able to sleep well at night. What makes somebody a good father, a good husband, a good steward of Like a family lineage. I met people who were parts of like legacies in their families. And how do you carry that forward and what does that look like to even. Who was the founder of that? Who started that and why did he start it this way and why did he do it? I just got obsessed with why we are who we are. And I realized it all came back to the stories we tell ourselves about our lives. Kind of what I learned about my own experience. They have chosen what something means to them and they just ran with it. They learned it and they stopped questioning it. They just went and did that thing. So there was like a purpose driven thing to people who always end up successful in whatever they end up doing. And so that kind of kicked off the what I'm doing now. I waited. I told myself I'd wait Till I was 30, this is when I was 19. I waited until I was 24. I waited halfway. I think I did a good job. But then I became the 24 year old life coach that everybody was laughing about online again. I was just so resolute. This is who I am. How do I not do this thing? I've been doing it for friends, I've been doing it with people around me. I can't not do this anymore. So people are going to have to say what they want to say. But I'm going to do this thing now. And I mostly work with guys younger than me, but I had like 50 somethings hiring me at like 25, 26 years old and I had to just lean on my experience. I say I have 43,000 years of life experience just kind of floating around in my head. Not a made up number. The average age of the person that I interviewed was about 43 years old. And I did over a thousand interviews. I have about this much knowledge that I don't always know what to do with. But it is such a good index for me to start pulling from when I'm working with people and talking with people. Yerasimos 00:12:42.330 - 00:12:43.450 Man, thank you for that. Kyree 00:12:43.610 - 00:12:44.330 Yeah, dude. Yerasimos 00:12:44.330 - 00:13:05.940 Over a thousand interviews, that's epic. And listen, I share your love of like, why are we human? What do we do? Why do we do the things we do? What leads us towards down the paths that we go down? Are there any specific stories from those thousands that just stick out to you that you'd like to share and like lessons that you learned that you apply to your life? Kyree 00:13:06.420 - 00:16:47.490 Yeah, a lot. And a lot of them were subtle. Like a lot of them came over time and I think a lot of them were on accident. Like a lot of them were people having a bad day. And I learned a lot from people just at their worst. I had a guy who had on paper lost $600 million in a day. He got rug pulled by business partners when they ipoed in San Francisco. And I picked him up from a bar and he wanted to go home and I would not take him home. I could just tell by how he was acting in my back seat. This is not a guy that I can drop off at his house right now. And so I ended up driving with him for about five hours until I felt even kind of comfortable. He had sobered up a little bit, but I felt kind of comfortable dropping him off. And I made him like take down my cell phone number and text me the next morning. I said, your one job is to text me tomorrow morning. And I, I learned what despair looked like in real time in front of me to somebody I had no connection with. I'm making $2,000 a month between my full time job and driving for Lift and Uber. I don't know what $600 million looks like and I can't fathom it. But I'm watching a guy who just lost that, that and like everything. He had everything in this. It's not like I'm going to be fine. I still have millions. This is a startup. They had done that, they got to IPO that they took on investors that they, blah, blah, blah. It was absolutely insane to watch. I met people who had like just had their first kid that day. And I get to see what that looks like. And, and if you don't have kids, you can't describe that feeling to somebody or you can't be articulated that feeling too and understand what it means. And I didn't know what it meant until I had my first kid. And all of a sudden it comes rushing in. And I can recall that now, anytime I think about my kids being born, that same feeling comes back. And so I, I learned that there are visceral things that we're going to experience that you can't explain to somebody who hasn't had them before and that those people couldn't actually articulate to me properly because I don't think the words exist for certain things, good and bad. Again, I don't know how that guy's day went because I don't know that level of despair. I don't know. I didn't know how the guy who just had his first kid that I'm driving to the hospital because something, something with their car, but he has to get to the hospital, see his first kid being born. The one that I use most often, I think, because I work with entrepreneurs, is a guy named Frank that I interviewed with. He had pancreatic cancer. Stage 4 pancreatic cancer. And he had made over a half billion dollars in his life. And I saw a man die completely empty. Genuinely, like his words, he was dying completely empty. He hadn't talked to any of his sons in 12 years. He had three of them. And when I asked him what he regretted or what he would go back in life and change, he said, I would have gone to each one of my sons baseball practices one time. Not because I think that would have changed something, but I think it would have started a pattern of me changing something. He had never been to a single baseball practice. He went to the one of their weddings and he went to one of their college graduations. He was busy. His job was money maker. His job was feed the family. And he thought that that's what fatherhood was. He thought that that was his role in life was just to do this. So he made a shit ton of money. And I saw him dying alone. I was literally one of four people at his funeral. There was two nurses, a friend of his that had been a longtime friend and colleague from College, and this 19 year old, I was maybe 20 at the time. I'd interviewed him about five days before he passed. First time I ever met him, last time I ever met him. And I was one of four people at this man who had accomplished everything. Like, we would look up to him if he was on podcast right now and say he was the God of this thing. And I saw a man again who, who was res. Understood that he was dying completely empty with pockets full of money. Joel 00:16:47.970 - 00:16:48.450 Wow. Yerasimos 00:16:48.690 - 00:16:51.730 How did you get, how do you get connected to someone like that? Kyree 00:16:51.810 - 00:17:36.209 Scamming, scheming. I was 19 and I was dumb, naive kid. So I could get in kind of anywhere I wanted to because I'm just interested in talking to people. I did death row interviews. I said it was for a college project. I wasn't in college. I used my old student ID to get in and the, the senior home, it was just, I want to talk to these people. They're bored. Do they have to do all day? And so I just started going in, just randomly talking to people. I got ingratiated with the staff that was there. They liked, you know, I was respectful, I was nice, I was honest. I didn't stick around longer than I was supposed to. And so I was, I kind of had free reign to talk to and. And interview whoever I wanted. I still say to this day, if I knew what a podcast was, I'd be rich and famous right now. Yerasimos 00:17:37.089 - 00:17:44.270 Yeah, bro. What, what, what was your equipment you just rolled up with like a. A mic or anything? Or like a tape recorder? Like, was this 14 years ago? Kyree 00:17:44.430 - 00:18:18.770 My phone? Yeah. This was 2013 to 2016. Yeah, yeah. No, I didn't have a microphone. I used to record on my laptop or on my phone. And I realized that when I was recording, I didn't listen as well and that people weren't as honest. And so because this was a selfish thing, this wasn't supposed to go out anywhere. I stopped taking notes and I stopped recording. My trust was that what I'm supposed to receive is going to be received. And again, this isn't for anybody else. Anyway, I genuinely didn't know what a podcast was in. Let's say this was 2014. Yerasimos 00:18:20.130 - 00:18:23.690 Yeah. Back to the story with the old guy. Kyree 00:18:23.690 - 00:18:23.970 Who. Yerasimos 00:18:23.970 - 00:18:39.360 Older guy that died empty and his family wasn't there. I can only imagine the disconnection that had to be there for. For no one to show up. Especially we live in this time where people are like, oh, I'm just gonna fake it and be nice to him. Maybe he'll write me into his will. Kyree 00:18:39.440 - 00:18:39.840 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:18:39.840 - 00:18:56.080 You know, but like, nobody shows up. Like, I, I can't even fathom that level of disconnection and lack of trust and just being like, yeah, I don't care. Like, I can. Like, I'm trying to put myself in the position of his kids. Like, like, fuck that, dude. You know what I mean? Like, it's wild. Kyree 00:18:56.320 - 00:20:29.440 From what I surmised, he did what a lot of people do, and a lot of people actually with personality disorders do, which is if I push you away and you come back, that means you love me. And I see people do this in toxic relationships all the time. Right. Whether they're the. The one who does it or the other person or there's a cycle of them both doing it is. There's a push and pull. If I push you away and you come back, that means I'm worth coming back for. And I think that's probably what he did from what I understood with his sons, is, I'm gonna push you. My job is to push you. When really, like, you push and then you don't show up for the follow through of that push, that person is now resentful. They're not grateful. And I think he thought they're gonna see what great Man, I was to the rest of the world and take that upon themselves to view me that way. And they just didn't do that. And I think he probably at some point got past the point of no return. I, from what I gathered, his sons tried to have a like, final, hey, we're actually leaving conversation with him. And it just was not received at all. It was, look at what I've done for you, look at all the things I've done for you. And I think again, subconsciously there was this big push back. And he goes, if they come back, then they're really mine. Right? And they just didn't. And he had met, I think, like a few of his grand grandkids out of eight or nine, and he had met none of his great grandkids. His sons were in their early 60s to like 50s. And I think it was this, like, there's a toxic cycle of I can push you as hard as I want to push you, and as soon as you come back, I am now validated in my belief that I can be this way and you're always going to come back to me. Yerasimos 00:20:31.200 - 00:20:34.160 Yeah, it's heartbreaking, man. Heartbreaking to me. Joel 00:20:35.200 - 00:20:54.070 Yeah. Now I'm familiar with that archetype for sure. Hey, so I guess based on everything that you've come to understand to date, what is success for a man? How would you define what success is for a man to you, in your, in your personal view? Kyree 00:20:54.550 - 00:22:44.220 Yeah, Family that loves and values you intimately, that knows you intimately? I, I think, yeah, intimate relationships is probably what success looks like, aside from financial, but also with financial. Like, I, I have made the most money with good friends of mine throughout my life. And so I still think intimate relationships are what actually does it for you, even financially. We look at like tech billionaire, whatever, who nobody's actually close to. And like, that doesn't look like success to me. Like, there's a, there's definitely one component of success there, but it's missing the rest of the puzzle. And I think it's deeply connected relationships with, with something you've built and then something that you've gone out and found. So, like my network and my, my close friend group are people I can't buy to be friends with. Like, they're literal to my mentors. You can't pay them to mentor you. They would turn down a Grant Cardone or a Tai Lopez and, and two of them actually have turned down people of that in that space, I would say where I want relationships I can't buy, I think is probably A big tell of success in my mind. Like, I can't buy my wife and kids affection. And I know a lot of people larp and say that they can. And I just don't think any of those are lasting. Like, I have people that I will know and be close to for the rest of my life or for the rest of theirs that I happened upon throughout my life. But I was ready to receive those people when I found them. And I think that is a big part of what success looks like. Of course, you need to have the bare minimum of, like, successful business. You can buy the cars, you can do the fun things. You can have, like, the financial, I guess, freedom to do what you want to do. But so much of it comes back to the things that you can't purchase. Yerasimos 00:22:45.260 - 00:23:14.690 Yeah. What you mentioned, the person before that you interviewed that was explaining, you know, what it was like to have a child. Like, what was it like for you? Like, what was. If you can go back to that moment and tap into, like, the somatic experience of emotion and being in that environment. Like, again, I'm asking you. I don't have a kid. Joel has three kids. Yeah. I would just love to hear what that experience in that moment was like for you. Kyree 00:23:14.930 - 00:26:10.100 Gosh, Joe, how would you sum up? Sum it up in a word or a few words? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I couldn't believe it. I think. And I was told right before a similar version of the story that I'd been told when I was doing the interviews. There was a guy to cigar lounge close to my house who had had, I think it was three. Three daughters. And he told me, you're about to feel the feeling. Like it was like the week before my daughter was due. And he was like, you're about to feel that feeling. And I was like, no idea what you're talking about. And he goes, it's not something I can explain to you, but I want you to come back after you have your kid and you'll tell me about it and you'll feel it all over again. And it was this. I broke down crying one when my daughter was born, definitely. But then when I went and saw the guy and he was like, that's exactly it. Like, it's not something you can put words around. It did. Yeah, it did something to me. There's a level of, like, responsibility without weight. And I don't know if that makes a whole lot of sense. I am ultimately responsible for this thing, for this creature that doesn't even know me yet, that doesn't care about me, yet genuinely doesn't know or care about me. Like, all it wants is mom boob milk. Come give me that. But who's this guy standing in the corner sobbing his eyes out? I think it made something real that I always had a concept of. And I think it, like, solidifies a conception that we always have. Oh, this undying love for this creature, this undying thing that you'll give up your own life for anybody else. And I remember, like, it may sound grim, but it's meant lightly the first three thoughts that I had when I first had my daughter. This is the most beautiful thing that I've ever had in my life. And objectively, it's not the most beautiful thing. Like, newborns are kind of gross looking, but to me, that, like, there's no telling me that this isn't the most beautiful creature that's ever existed. Two was, thank God I picked the right woman to do this with. Like, I. I looked at her, cut the umbilical cord, and I go back and look at my wife, and I'm like, oh, thank you. Because I've heard so many stories about that day being the day people realize I up. Like, I brought this thing in here and I'm being unfair to it. And I think that may be part of what. What happened to my dad again. They got divorced when I was two months old. I can't imagine those thoughts going through my head. Thank God I picked the woman that I picked to do this with. And the third one was, I'll up anybody in this hospital, literally. And this sounds bad. I love my mom to death. My parents live two blocks away from me, including my parents in that waiting room. If this girl needed something and my mom could be the only one to give it to her. And, sorry, you gotta go. Sorry, you gotta go. And I don't understand how that just suddenly happens, but there was a sudden shift where my world shrinks down into these two people. My wife and my daughter and nobody else. Like, it moved everybody out. A ring. My. My wife was already here, but it brought them to closer. And now, like, with my son, and I've got my second son on the way in September, brings everybody closer. That's right here. And everybody else gets shoved out at least one level, if not three or four. Yerasimos 00:26:11.700 - 00:26:12.900 Thanks for sharing that one. Joel 00:26:12.900 - 00:26:15.100 That's pretty on point, man. It's pretty on point. Kyree 00:26:15.100 - 00:26:15.620 Pretty close. Joel 00:26:15.780 - 00:26:30.420 Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Okay. Why? What has led to us living in a world where we even require masculinity? Coaches,. Kyree 00:26:35.460 - 00:29:12.660 I think the world now requires More from us than before. And I think that that's a scary transition. I think we're going through a transition, is what I would say. I think we have now more and different required from us again, for a long time. Make the money. Your job is make the money and make the rules, basically. And then everybody else has to kind of bend to that. And we're now in a world where women don't always require that. Now, I specifically have a traditional household where my wife doesn't work and her job is the kids and our house and me and herself. And I know that that's not the reality for a lot of people. So when that requirement goes away or when guys also feel disaffected, like, I'm not allowed to be that kind of guy who has a wife at home, that doesn't work, that doesn't do anything, well, now what do I bring? And they didn't have a clear answer. And so they just go, oh, maybe that's not for me. And I think that's where a lot of people have either resigned themselves to or are in part of the thought process of maybe that's not what I'm looking for. And to me, that looks like retreat. That looks like. I call it logical cowardice. I just came up with that probably about a week ago for a project that I'm working on. But I think logical cowardice is where we are right now, where I'm choosing that this thing that is, to me, again, so innate. Like, I knew I wanted kids, I knew I wanted a wife. I knew that that was something that was available to me. We've said that that's not available to me, and therefore I'm not allowed to want it. And so we've rejected the idea of fulfillment, I would say, and we have chosen that fulfillment looks something different than it always has. And I just simply don't believe that. I think it has changed form and changed, but I don't think that we have abandoned the thing that has always made a man. I think about dying, like, with your family around you. I've gotten to see men who have passed, who have, like, the people closest to them right there, or be at a funeral where there's hundreds of people coming to celebrate who this person was to them. And I think we see it like in celebrities, but that feels too disconnected. I think if. Unless you've seen somebody with close, intimate, and then all those concentric circles around them coming to celebrate who they were as a human being, I don't think it lands until you've seen something like that and I think you feel justified in doing the other until you see what you would actually desire, which is what I think I carry with those end of life interviews. I know what I'm going to worry and care about at that point, and I'm, I'm not hedging against the opposite of that, but I know that that's what I'm looking for. And while I can still have fun and still make money and still do all the cool things, that's the ultimate thing that I know I need in my life. Yerasimos 00:29:13.220 - 00:30:22.640 Yeah. You know, my father passed away two years ago at the age of 93. And I think, yeah, thanks, man. Yeah, he lived a very full life, man. And especially with what he went through in his life. I mean, I always say, like, if, if you're, you're right before you're about to incarnate, if you can sign on the dotted line, hey, I'm gonna be 93 years old and blah, blah, blah, like you sign on that line. But at the, the viewing, the thing that hit me the most was it was really beautiful to see the different people from the different circles, from the different worlds show up. Especially like he had sold his business like 15 years prior, you know, and like even old family friends and yeah, man, that, that just really hit me in that regards to see that level of, of love and support and, you know, I think about me and legacy and, you know, what Joel and I are building and like, you know, how do I, how do I, how I want to show up and man, like, when it's my time to go, it'd be great to see people from different parts of my world show up and, and be grateful and yeah, man, it's, it's a beautiful thing thinking about the passage of time and generations and, you know, what we can take from, you know, the people that, that literally are the reason we came into this world. Kyree 00:30:22.880 - 00:31:22.000 Yeah, yeah. I think the people that die full, they're good stewards and a lot of them see themselves that way. Like, I think about a few friends of mine that have crossed like that 10 figure mark billionaire or like at least in a few hundred millions, like the ones that are the most palatable, I would say, to be around. They see themselves as good stewards of something. Some of them inherited their businesses, some of them built them, but they do the same thing that I do in earnest and just go like, I'm a conduit for something. I'm supposed to carry something through me, but it doesn't come from me. And it's definitely not for me. It's for other people. And I find that the people who are most content toward the end that I interviewed, that I've talked to, that I've been around, they just saw themselves, the stewards of something that they were supposed to carry forward, and they just went and did that thing. And I think what you saw with your dad was the. Was the fulfillment of that where you get to see who he had. Who his ripples had touched throughout his life. And I think that is incredible. Yerasimos 00:31:22.720 - 00:32:02.320 Yeah. You know, there's a. A phrase that I keep coming back to, and it's something that's inspired me for probably over 15 years. And it's memento more. You know, remember that you will die. And, you know, I kind of treat it as like a spiritual practice, like, to hold death close to me, you know, because it can come at any moment for any of us. And, you know, how does that. How does that impact you in the way that you live? So when you think about interviewing all these people at the end of life, like, how do you. How do you relate to that? How did. How did these people, like, really relate to that? Did they. Do they fear death? Because I feel like we live in this culture. It's like, okay, death, let's just put it under the rug. Kyree 00:32:02.320 - 00:32:02.800 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:32:02.800 - 00:32:40.750 You know, even, like, I come from old school Greek culture and, like, with my mom, like, if I bring it up, it's like, don't talk about that. And it's like, what the. Like, we're all this. The one thing we all know for sure, that we let. Life will cease to exist for all of us. And then it's this thing that it's like, not. I want to talk about it. It's like this dark thing, but yet it feels so real. It's like this. It's like almost this huge piece of life is the fact that it will end. And yet for so many. It's like, no, let's just not talk about that. So can you talk about your relationship to that and even with the people that you've come across in your life? Kyree 00:32:41.630 - 00:32:48.750 Yeah. Yeah. I think it feels dark and scary, but again, I think that that is an insecurity of, like, what I've done. Joel 00:32:49.390 - 00:32:49.630 Yeah. Kyree 00:32:49.630 - 00:34:45.420 If I've felt like I've had this, like, fulfillment of this thing that I'm looking for or that I know I hold deeply, I saw the people who knew that wholeheartedly in a piece. Like, almost all these people had some sort of terminal illness. And I Saw, like, I. I would say it's probably about a 50, 50 mix. I'm trying to think back to the specific people that I talked to. I would say it was probably about down the middle of people who were scared and like, here's what I wish I would have done. And here's. I think they all kind of had that of, like, I would have done this differently, but I wouldn't change a thing. It's kind of like, I don't want to be regretful, but here's what I would have done if I gotten another opportunity. I think for me again, like, if I can be able to tell myself and I. And I strive to be able to tell myself that I'm doing what I'm meant to do for me. Again, not everybody believes in God, but call it source, call it universe, call it karma, call it whatever you want. If I'm living out the thing that I feel is deeply embedded in here. And the first thing, again, I work with mostly young guys, mostly under 35. If you slow down enough to ask yourself the question of what actually lays really, really deeply in here, I think you have a path and a direction. So I, with guys, have them project out 20 years, who's that guy? And talk to me about him and tell me who he is. And I have them write letters to him, and I then have him write a letter from him to them currently. And I think one that guarantees that your role model never lets you down because he's you 20 years from now. So it's a hedge in some ways. But then it's also having to realize that the wisdom that you seek out is already there and that you can borrow other pieces from other people. You can have mentors, you can hire coaches. But so much of what you're looking for is actually here if you shut the up and listen. Sorry for cussing. Yerasimos 00:34:45.900 - 00:34:51.060 No, it's okay. I tend to do it more than I'd like to at times. It's the jersey in me, I think. Kyree 00:34:51.060 - 00:34:51.900 But me too. Yerasimos 00:34:52.220 - 00:34:53.740 Yeah, I think it's that. Kyree 00:34:53.740 - 00:36:12.790 It's. It's look for that thing that is deeply seated that most people just haven't have never since they became adults. You got to work, you got to do the thing you gotta. Especially the entrepreneur. You got to gain success. You got to get the bank account to this. I've heard so many of these stories from guys, from friends, from whatever, on stage or in private. I told myself once I did this, I'd be a good father and a good husband. I'd Spend time with my family. I'd, I'd reach out, I, I'd build a friend group and I do the things that I've always wanted to do. And I'm trying to show most of the people that do what I do are at least 10 years my senior. And I started again way too early, way before I was supposed to. And I couldn't not start that way. But I wanted to show an example of you can do this thing right the first time. And I think that's a really hard thing for people to grasp. Mostly my audience is on Facebook, so most of them are 10 to 20 years older than I am. And I've just always gotten that thing of, oh, when you're older, you'll get X. And what I realized is that came often times embedded with, given enough time, you'll become me. And I would always ask these same people the same question, at what age will you take this seriously? What I'm saying, at what age will you say this kid's onto something? And the answer is there is no age at which they'll say that. Because when I'm 40, then they'll be 60 and I'll still be a dumb kid who doesn't understand anything. But I'm trying to show an example of somebody who's doing these things, most things properly the first time,. Joel 00:36:16.230 - 00:36:43.280 Like a man and you're speaking our language, man. It's like staying close to your own unique soul and having moments throughout the day where just a deeper recognition of the being that you are and the uniqueness of who you are and just cultivating a deeper self acceptance, self forgiveness, a softening towards oneself can change a whole lot. Kyree 00:36:43.760 - 00:36:45.520 Yeah, yeah. Yerasimos 00:36:45.520 - 00:37:33.750 Do you think Joel asked you the question before? I think it was around like, why do we even need masculinity coaches? Like, what is it even about, like the modern world, like you said, like, hey, you can learn things about yourself if you just shut the up. But like also it just feels like we're in this like non stop busyness, going for one thing, non stop distractions, you know, all the short term gratifications that's there like on a platter for us. And like, as a man, I feel like more so now than ever again. I, I, I wasn't around 50 years ago, I wasn't around 100 years ago, you know, but now I think about, you know, the inner power and the strength that is needed to go like, no, no, no, no. It's coming at us from every angle. I mean, like, we're all married. Kyree 00:37:33.910 - 00:37:34.390 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:37:34.390 - 00:37:56.030 Everywhere you look there's just sex everywhere, there's naked women everywhere. And it's like, you know, on some level, like men are men. I say that as like a general statement. It's like, you know, you got to stay grounded and connected and committed to not allow yourself to stray or to leak all that energy. It feels so, feels like more so now than ever. Kyree 00:37:56.510 - 00:40:59.820 Yeah, but I think it's a, it's a. If you've done the thing, it becomes very, very clear. I would say those things aren't for me. And that just becomes. It's not some flowery I've connected with, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I went through this process and then that became apparent to me. I know what's for me because I, I know what's for me. And so anything outside of that. And that's why I. This is what. I'm a professional question asker. I don't solve problems for people. And I think it's funny because I have to look like I solve problems for people, for people to hire me. But they don't realize that most of this is me asking you the right questions that you may not necessarily know how to ask yourself. But I've been asking myself for the last 14 years, since I was 18 years old, I've been asking myself these questions and I've been helping other people ask themselves these questions when you know what is definitely for you. I go through a whole process when I do it in person with people. It's like, I say it's like five hours. Usually it's about eight hours if I'm really into it. And like going with somebody where we create a document around. Who do you say you are? You're going to articulate that to me so fucking clearly that you can't mistake anything else for being for you because you know exactly what is. You also have to contend with the pieces of yourself you didn't know were attributed to you. And I think those are super important because you start recognizing what is no longer allowed to be for me. I make people make declarations. What part of my life no longer serves me? And then what am I going to replace it with? It's the, the Viktor Frankl talks about the existential vacuum. When you remove something and you don't choose what takes its place, anything and everything gets sucked in. That's the porn, that's the gambling addiction, that's alcoholism, that's drugs. It's whatever gets sucked into that hole that's there. And a lot of people are walking around with this hole that they don't want to analyze. That's the hard thing. I think for a lot of people, this, you know, I don't want to articulate this because I have to be held to something, I have to be responsible for it. And I think that's a super scary thing, is why guys don't slow down. That's why especially successful men do not give themselves the time to slow down. Because I have to then contend with something. And that's a really hard thing to ask somebody to do. And it's almost always after something bad happens or right before somebody realizes something bad's about to happen that they then go, I just need to figure this out. And it is a slowing down process. And asking yourself hard questions. Again, uncomfortable conversations with yourself is I think the thing that I most often facilitate. But you have to choose into it. I can't force somebody to do it. I can't cold DM somebody and go, hey, you look like a real asshole right now. Can I help you with that? It's a hard thing to do. So I have to talk like this. I have to talk on my own videos. I started doing a nightly video like two weeks ago. Um, I'm trying to start up like a podcast and a media side of my business that I think is going to be important, But a lot of it's going to be, I have to have the uncomfortable conversations with people, with myself, with an audience that doesn't know who I am yet to just call forward and just go, can you please shut up for a second and do this thing that I know that you can feel in certain points and you immediately brush off. You immediately go open up your phone or you go do the other thing because you have the things coming at you all the time. Like distraction is always available. I want you to carve out this little moment of silence where you actually have to contend with yourself. Joel 00:41:01.020 - 00:41:45.630 Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. You know, like, obviously we talk a lot about the feminization of men within the culture today. And at the same time, I just feel like there's a tendency to over romanticize masculinity of previous generations. Like, yeah, granted, my grandfather probably never asked himself, how do I be more of a man at the same time, just because there was less introspection, that doesn't mean that they were necessarily like better people, more whole people, etc, some might have been. Obviously there's nuance to all of it. But introspection going up, generally speaking, is a good thing. In, in my Opinion. What are the primary pool of problems that men tend to seek you out for. Kyree 00:41:47.930 - 00:42:07.610 You? A lot of them start off in, like, marketing and business, where people come to me with those problems. And I realized that there's a through line of, again, they're telling themselves the wrong stories about themselves and like, they've become successful because of that. Toxic. I call it toxic fuel. But toxic fuel is meant to burn out and blow up your engine. Joel 00:42:07.610 - 00:42:09.610 Can you. Can you define toxic fuel for us? Kyree 00:42:09.930 - 00:44:56.110 Yeah, it's. It's retribution. It's. I'll prove them wrong. It's on the underdog. It's. Anything actually attached to anybody else is actually toxic fuel. Even if it is, it's weird to say, but even so much as I want to make this other person proud is a form of toxic fuel because you don't control the source of that fuel. Right. What if that person can never. This is prove dad right. Make my dad proud of me. This is a huge thing for a lot of guys, and I did that for a long time. I wanted to make. I want to be better than my dad. And then I realized, like, that's a low bar for me to set for myself personally. And so that doesn't work for me anymore. There's a push versus pull thing. I know Tony Robbins talks about. They're like, push versus pull motivation. Am I being pushed away from something or am I pulling myself toward a North Star? And I think it's really hard, again, for people to figure out what that pull thing is, because there's no slowing down to figure it out. So I would say relationships are probably the biggest one because most of the people I work with have money solved. They know how to go create money out of thin air, pop up a new offer, send out an email, make a video, do the thing. And they know how to do that really well. And they've seen what is atrophied in the pursuit of. Of this, the thing that they already know how to do. And I think they think that if they take their foot off the pedal, that thing will just go away. But it's so innate to you now that you don't know how to not do it. You know how to work hard. That's fine. Now you go fix the things that have atrophied because you have bowed to the God of more. And I think there's a whole lot less you can be doing and get a whole lot more out of yourself by doing the slowed down again, uncomfortable, quiet conversations with yourself. Most of, most of the growth that my people that I work with, people that I talk to, I don't just say clients because I talk to people all the time. This is who I am. So this is just like what you get when you meet me and talk to me. I don't try to coach everybody, thank God. I'm well past that. But it doesn't happen inside of the session or inside the conversation. It's the quiet conversation you have with yourself driving home after we meet or after the Zoom call or after whatever we talk about. Those are the things that actually propel you forward. But, like, you have to create some sort of space there. And I find I, I exist between these lines of, like, breath work, yoga, fuck off to Bali, burn your business down. I'm going to, like, become a shaman. And the rah rah motivational. Just more, more, more, more, more. Guy. I have something in here where, yes, success is awesome. And it's great to be able to afford the things that you want in your life. And if you can't enjoy it, you didn't do anything. You can't feel filled up by the things. You're just going to keep collecting things on the outside to convince everybody else. Because you think, if I can convince them, maybe I can convince me. Joel 00:44:56.280 - 00:44:57.000 I love that, man. Kyree 00:44:57.080 - 00:44:57.880 Never happens. Joel 00:44:57.960 - 00:45:28.500 Yeah, no, that's. That's a good space to be in for sure. So back to this toxic fuel conversation. Because, like, you're a former athlete, right? Like, there's no Michael Jordan is a Michael Jordan without some level of proven wrong. You know, Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bryant without some level of I'll prove you wrong, you know? So it's like, what is, what is the line where that can be used as a source of, like, healthy motivation without it becoming this dominant, overarching thing? Because I think there is something to that as well. Kyree 00:45:29.220 - 00:50:57.800 I think we need examples of those people. So I do think those people exist. I, I can't tell you how many guys. And this is like a perfect example. And when, when somebody drops the name, I know I got them. Like, I know that your, your whole world's about to get. When. As soon as the young guys bring up Michael Jordan. I want to be the Michael Jordan of X. I want to be the Michael Jordan of this. And I said, is anybody like Michael Jordan? Does anybody who know Michael knows Michael Jordan like Michael Jordan? No, I don't think Michael Jordan likes Michael Jordan. But he doesn't have to. He's an example of a, of the extreme of that. And there's men throughout history that we can see as that extreme example. The thing is, you're not Alexander the Great and you're not Michael Jordan and you're not these people. Like, yes, you can live your life as though you're going to be that. But 9. 999 Million 999. 999 Of you out of a billion people are just not going to be that. And you're gonna your entire life by trying. I think that's the hard things. Everybody thinks they're Michael Jordan, and I have to talk them down from thinking that they need to be Michael Jordan when the better piece of this Kobe Bryant, I think is a better example. As soon as he retires, what does Kobe Bryant do? Kobe Bryant's not Kobe Bryant anymore that we all know and that everybody. Lakers fan. I grew up a massive. I thought I was a Lakers fan until Kobe retired. I was at his last game and I realized I was not a Lakers fan. I was a Kobe and Shaq fan my entire life. But what does Kobe do as soon as he retires? He can put this thing over here. He can compartmentalize and say, I'm now dad and husband. That's my job now. And I'm going to be the best that. That I possibly can. That's not the same skill set that wins you championships. I think guys are really bad because of an insecurity. If I'm not this all the time, I don't know how to be this. And they don't know how to put that in a box. When you step out, I have a ritual. When I step out of my office, I have a ritual. When I step in my home, I have a. I used to have a ritual when I stepped on the football field. I'm no longer this Kyrie that you see. I've broken people's bones. I've put people, like in hospitals. I put people out of the thing that they love the most in their lives. And I didn't think about it that night. I'm this thing when I'm going and doing my job, but I have to be able to separate from who I am or else I'm going to fall. Like it's just going to happen. I'm going to explode. Or I have to be Michael Jordan. I have to be piece of asshole dick to every single person I ever meet because I'm Michael Jordan. And I think that's a. It's. That is a conversation I've probably had 40 or 50 times, literally, with men that I want to be the Michael Jordan of whatever. And my line, it's a full conversation. But the line that I use, and I use this with a guy that's now one of my best friends. He was a groom at my wedding, one of my favorite people of all time. But he was a client of mine and he was living with me. He was renting a room for me in 2019. He talked about, I want to be a Michael Jordan of copywriting. And I said, you know, my. My now wife had just moved down with me here in Arizona. She moved from Austin to Arizona. And he would watch us just cooking dinner and having fun and joking and watching a trash TV show while eating steak on the couch. And he was judging. Like, I would watch him judge us for it. And like, you could be doing so much Kyrie, you could be working right now and you could be blah, blah. And she cut off all work conversations after like 5 or 6pm which he absolutely hated, because otherwise we were talking about work all the time because we were two guys talking. And that's what we did. And he did this whole Michael Jordan thing on our session. Like, the day after. I noticed this look on his face. And I said, I know what you lay in bed and think about at night. I cut him off when he was doing this whole Michael, I'm going to be the greatest, blah, blah, blah, blah, and tear everybody else down and fuck them all and blah, blah, blah. And I said, I know what you lay in bed and think about at night. And I use this with CEOs, I use this with high, high performers that make more money than I'll ever make in my entire life. And that thing when the phone's down, when nobody else, like, has. You have nothing to prove to anybody. Nobody can see who you are. You have to sit with that. And I said, what did you lay in bed thinking about at night? Be totally honest with me. Kid immediately starts crying. And he goes, I wanted what you guys had. Like, I was jealous and I was looking for that. Like, I'm covering up for. I'm scared I'll never have that. And I think that's what success again. Like, we've retracted, we've retreated. There's logical cowardice that says I'm not allowed to have that. So therefore, I'm going to go maximize everything else in my life so I can have the. I call it the Lacroix version is like any Lacroix flavors, like the essence of whatever it is, but it's not the real thing. I want what tastes kind of like it and so that maybe I can convince other people that I have that. But I saw this kid, and I talk to guys all the time who have wives and children and still don't feel the thing that they've built around themselves because they've never slowed down to do it. And I've had, again, I've had that conversation 30 or 40 times with guys. I know what you lay in bed and think about at night. And it's not about more money and more success. And you can't convince me it is. And if you're honest, it's more of something like this. I saw a family at a coffee shop today, and I said, damn, I really want that, but I'm on my way to a board meeting and I got to go sell this thing or I got to convince these guys I got to do the more, more, more. And I just know that that's not what you actually are looking for. I. I know, and it's not something that I can be argued out of, but I have to create a good argument against it publicly. But, like, personally, I can't be convinced that these guys don't think those same thoughts. They just can't share it because if it's unavailable to me again, I have to pretend. It's like, a hot girl doesn't want you, why didn't want her way. Right. You have to say that you have to do that to save the ego that says, I, I can have everything I want, but if I want something, I can't have it. I have to deprioritize it in my life. Yerasimos 00:50:58.520 - 00:52:17.230 Yeah. It seems like there needs, like, when you go back to the idea of success, that there needs to be this level of dynamic flexibility or fluidity within, you know, to be able to, like, tap into different parts of you for different situations. You know, like, when you think of success, it's like, how do you live appropriately depending on what's around you in your environment? Like, there's a time to put up, put down the work cap and then focus on other things, family, you know, your partnership, etc. And I feel like the rigidity from like a psyche standpoint is something that keeps people back. So part of the work is like separating from these parts of us that just have taken over the fucking wheel and are driving the wheel 247 to go. Well, what's on the other side? How can I discover what's there? Like, you know, even just you asking that simple question and him breaking down and being emotional, like, I don't know, does that happen to him on a regular basis or was it just you in his, in his presence, what you hold for him, asking that pointed question that allowed him to open up in a certain way. And I feel like why you do the work you do, it's like, I feel like men, but human beings in general just need someone to see them and be with them and to accept them in all their glory. And like the, the stuff that's like, oh, yeah, you're amazing. And also like, I'm feeling, I'm embarrassed. I'm. I'm feeling a little shame right now. Like, I'm confused. Like I don't know what the fuck I'm doing with my life. Kyree 00:52:17.520 - 00:53:41.260 Yeah. You know, I feel like, yeah, the CEO, the owner doesn't have that person most of the time. I think that's the problem. Everybody comes to them with their problems, and so I'm the solver, but there's nobody here to help me solve. And again, I can't slow down enough to solve for myself. That's why we have it inside of a specific container where we come in and we solve the you problems. And I don't need anything from you is what's confronting. I think for a lot of people that, that come in and work with me. A lot of times start off with like the accolades and the amazing things you've done. I say, great, but that's not why you're here. And it's a really hard thing for a lot of guys. Like, I get to be the one guy in your ear that goes, yeah, that's a good cover story. You tell everybody else the accolades and the cool things that you can attach to yourself. But I'm interested in this guy. I'm interested in this thing that you don't want to talk about to anybody else and often don't want to talk about to yourself. The friend that I had that conversation with, what I foresaw for him, was having to have that conversation at like 45. And so if I don't have the tough one with him at 20, he's going to have to have it with himself at 45, when he's surrounded by way more distraction and reasons not to and evidence to the contrary where if I can come in early and go, I promise you this is a thing that you need to look at for yourself that can go unchecked and unnoticed for a long time. And then you are high powered CEO, owner of the business. I'm responsible for these people. I have to do these things. I have obligations. And you can always convince yourself never to have those conversations with yourself. Yerasimos 00:53:42.940 - 00:53:43.660 Thanks, man. Joel 00:53:43.820 - 00:54:10.810 Yeah, I mean, on some level, you're right. It's a universal thing where, like, men are grappling with the ghost of their father and wanting to prove their worth to. To their father. And like, that. That blueprint really leaves a mark on the trajectory that we take. So, like, what is. Let's talk about the opposite. Then. What is healthy fuel and what does the cultivation of healthy fuel actually take and look like? Kyree 00:54:11.210 - 00:56:57.540 Yeah. Pursuit of a worthy ideal. My mentor, good friend. Love him. Ron lynch, again, a man who like, has all the accolades and doesn't. Almost doesn't care about any of. He talks about him, like in passing. This guy's done. I want to say it was like four or six billion dollars in infomercial sales. And he says that publicly. It's not like something that I'm. I'm telling out of turn. When you go to his house, like, you meet his wife and you meet his dogs and he's a chick. He calls himself a chicken farmer. He lives outside of Austin, about an hour outside of Austin. Has chickens. They have a. They back up to like a African wildlife preserve. And so you have ibex and African goats and their giraffes and zebras. Not on his property specifically, but you have to. You can only enclose an acre of your land. He has six acres. So the rest of it has to be for the wildlife to come and co. Mingle. And I remember sitting. I think we were sitting in his backyard at probably about 3am and he had said something around purpose. What are you. What are we all supposed to be doing? And what is the thing that we should be striving for? And I think I had asked him the question and he said, all of us are made to pursue a worthy ideal. And I just couldn't make it better. I can't improve on the copywriting of that headline where I think you have to find what that thing looks like. What is the. What is the thing I'm pulling myself toward again, what is the North Star? But in his words, what is the worthy ideal? What is the thing that I hold above all else that I now my job is just pursuit. It's not goal, it's not gate that I have to do, it's not touchdown I have to score. What do I have to do that I can't go get tomorrow? That is the, the. The reward is in the pursuit of the thing that I'm looking for and that I'll never actually attain. And that, like, that gets to be a joyous thing. I'm never going to actually touch the thing that I say I want, but I get to pursue it. And, man, I get to pursue it. I get to do this thing all day. It's a dog. Jason, car. I won't know what I do when I get to it. Right. The Joker from the Dark Knight. I wouldn't know what to do if I actually caught it. But you have to find something that you're not allowed to catch, but you still pursue with the same vigor as if you could catch it. And I think that's something again, like, that's a hard thing to put on a spreadsheet. So it's. And it's all qualitative. It's not something you can articulate properly to somebody else. And it's a little bit different for every single person. I don't try to create carbon copies of me. I try to help people think how their future self will be grateful for down the road again. That's why I project out 20 years. You can't go get 20 years today, you can't go get it tomorrow. It's not allowed to be something that you can go again. You can put on a goal sheet and go. Try to rip and run fast toward. You should run fast because you enjoy the running fast toward this thing. Joel 00:56:58.020 - 00:57:04.980 Yeah, Yeah. I think that was originally the OG Earl Nightingale, who said, success is the progressive realization of a worthy ideal. Yerasimos 00:57:05.220 - 00:57:05.700 Yeah. Joel 00:57:06.340 - 00:57:21.950 It's so true, man. It's like if doesn't matter how big the step or how small the step was, if there's a worthy ideal in vision and each day you somehow progressively moved further towards that. Like, that is success. And that's sustainable, man. For sure. I love it. Kyree 00:57:21.950 - 00:57:41.590 It's the only thing that's sustainable. I think, like, that is the only. Call it clean fuel. I get to run towards something. And like, as a kid, we wanted to run towards that. We played tag and we did. Like, we. We did this so much as children. And we've muddied it. We've had layers and layers caked upon this childlike obsession with just pursuing something. Joel 00:57:42.100 - 00:57:42.340 Yeah. Kyree 00:57:42.340 - 00:58:13.220 And I think that it's hard because we've been taught that unless I can show something for my work, it's not valuable to anybody else. But this isn't stuff that's valuable to anybody else. You can still do the thing, like on your way toward the worthy ideal. You're going to do things that are valuable to other people. But if that's just a Given I get to go do this thing now, I'm not worried about the next checkpoint. The checkpoints are going to happen. Because I'm the type of man who insert. Whatever that is. I'm the type of man who does this. Of course I do this. Everything else now becomes a natural consequence of you doing the proper thing. Yeah, yeah. Yerasimos 00:58:13.620 - 00:59:26.660 It's interesting. Outside of the professional work that I do do with Joel on the podcast and our coaching work, you know, it's really highlighted what you just shared, too, is just nature and. And working with nature. And, you know, I've gotten really into. I don't want to call it like, farming, but, like, my wife and I, like, we're stewards of the land where we live outside of Los Angeles and Topanga. And I think about that. I think, like, when the progress. When the. When the process started and, like, the ground was pretty bare, and then all the different projects and planting trees and. But thinking I just enjoying this process. But then you do see the evolution. But then I think even like man in 100 years, you know, our intention is to bring life into this world. And it's like, you know, this tree that we planted is going to be, like 50ft high and all these fruit to, like, future generations, you know, ideally in a perfect world. But it's like, I'm not going to see all of that. I'm going to see a part. A part of that. And so it's been really humbling and it's actually impacted the rest of my life just by having this deeper intimate connection with nature and the seasons and seeing how things evolve. Like, it's just been a. That's been a huge life lesson. Just observing that. Kyree 00:59:26.980 - 00:59:27.460 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:59:27.540 - 00:59:30.660 Over the last. I mean, I guess the last few years since we started this. Kyree 00:59:30.820 - 00:59:41.880 These projects, I'm trying to think of the quote, but there's something around, like, something. Something like a good pursuit for a man is planting seeds for trees under which he'll never sit. Yerasimos 00:59:42.040 - 00:59:45.520 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've heard that quote before. I don't know the exact one, but it's something like that. Kyree 00:59:45.520 - 00:59:46.280 But that's the thing. Joel 00:59:46.520 - 00:59:49.200 Planning trees of which shade he'll never sit under. Kyree 00:59:49.200 - 01:00:02.520 Yeah, yeah, the shade you'll never sit under. Like, it's hard for us to conceptualize this thing that doesn't have a direct impact on me, but it has an impact on the next thing. We're not good at forward thinking outside of business, and I think that's really difficult. Yerasimos 01:00:03.100 - 01:00:46.920 Well, and even just like this, the land, like, you're A steward to something. Like you mentioned, you're a steward to the land. It's like, from, like, literally death and some dirt to, like, wow, the animals that are coming through, the different insects and the butterflies and the trees, and, like, you're creating this ecosystem for life to continue to do what life does and progress. And that is just when I think about, like, men and women and. And I'm not saying everyone's supposed to have kids. I mean, for a big part of my life, I was like, no, I'm not gonna have kids. I'm just doing my thing. And things have shifted. You know, hasn't happen yet. Haven't been blessed with it. We'll see what happens. But it's like. It's almost like life is meant to just do what life does and to move forward and. And for people to come together and create life. And that's a big reason why we're here. Kyree 01:00:47.320 - 01:01:27.100 Yeah, we. I. I think that's the problem, Joel, you were talking about earlier is like, we've never had more that tells us that's unnecessary. Right? We're allowed to do a bunch of other things other than the thing that I think is most fundamental to us. And all that looks like distraction to me. All that looks like pulling away. But how do you convince somebody to. To whom that is the pinnacle, that that's not even close to it? And that's a. It's a hard thing that I'm navigating. How do I make that argument appropriately for the type of audience that will eventually be built around it so that I can make that clear argument to somebody that has just completely resigned from it? Difficult? Yerasimos 01:01:27.670 - 01:02:13.630 Do you come across people that find you? Or maybe that's not the demographic that you hear this very often, like, oh, the world's overpopulated and the world can't afford any other kids. And. But also the reality for some people, the financial reality, is that, like, it's. It's tough for a lot of people. You know, I was. I was just in Greece, and I was speaking to someone there, and it's like, you know, the economics of having kids. There's a reality there for a lot of people that they. They either have been programmed that way or they think that way. So, like, how do you relate to that? Things that you hear out in the world in terms of these, like, program sayings, and then you hear people regurgitate that, you know, and then do you find men that come to you? They come with that and they kind of push back and go, well, you Know, there's just overpopulators, not enough resources. I'm not going have any kids. Kyree 01:02:13.950 - 01:03:27.310 Yeah, I hear the rebuttals often. I think one easy piece of it is like the dumb people making the world worse aren't stopping. And I think that's a really difficult thing to contend with. Again, we're either going to get more of them or we're going to get more of you. And the people who are worried about it, we oftentimes need more of like those people aren't worried about it. They're not thinking about this is a drain on earthly resources or whatever. They're doing the thing and maybe not doing it with much forethought or for the right reasons or whatever, but they're still doing the thing that you're actively avoiding because there's too much of the other. But like, what's the end result of too much of the other is more of the other. It's more of the thing that you are desperately afraid of. And so I just don't know, like you can either resign or you can push forward and this shows up in all different areas of your life. Right. I can either keep moving forward toward the worthy ideal or whatever you want to call it, or I can resign and say I can't do anything about it anyway. And if that's what you choose and that's what you deeply believe, I'm not here to convince somebody there out of it. I want the guy who's on the fence. I want the guy who's thinking about it. Yerasimos 01:03:27.790 - 01:04:01.850 Yeah, what, what changed for you in terms of like the challenges that you faced? Like pre having children now having children and being a father. And like, how did that impact your relationship? How does that impacted you just in terms of the day to day that you've had to just dig deep, evolve, expand into more of Kyrie and the, the man that 20 years ago you were like, hey, I'm gonna be this man that can handle a lot of things. It's gonna have a big, beautiful family and I'm just gonna step up to the occasion. So like, what has that process been like for you over the last few years? I'm not sure how old your kids are. Kyree 01:04:02.650 - 01:05:28.070 My daughter just turned five, my son just turned three, and we got another one come in seven weeks, something like that, eight weeks. It's hard for me as the example because again, I've been dreaming about my kids since I was 18. Like there's. There was no transition of wanting. The only transition again was I found the Right person to do this with and that, like, I can be excited about it now, not concerned about what happens in the relationship that can impact having kids. I just had never had somebody that I was excited to have kids with. And I've only been in two relationships before, my wife. But I don't think that that shifted. Like, I just. I've always known. It's a weird thing. I've always known. And I think what's funny is I hear a lot of the arguments from people who didn't have father figure in the house as to why they don't. As to why they don't want it or think it's available to them. And I was just the exact opposite. I didn't. I didn't have to work to get there. So it's hard for me without using other people as the examples, to be able to articulate what the path looks like or what that process looks like. Again, my job is to make you ask yourself questions and difficult questions of what is the end result of the thing that you're currently carrying around? And is that something desirable to you? And if it's not, then what? Which story do we need to change? Yeah. So I don't have a great answer for that because it feels innate. Yerasimos 01:05:28.780 - 01:05:29.660 Yeah, I feel you. Joel 01:05:30.060 - 01:05:33.500 Yeah. All right, man. I want to switch it up a bit. Yerasimos 01:05:34.060 - 01:05:34.460 So. Joel 01:05:36.220 - 01:05:58.620 You're a marketer, a digital marketer. And I mean, I look around and it feels like we're living in the worst age for marketing ever with, like, all the AI slob, the copy paste, the disgusting graphics and images that we're seeing everywhere. So give us your personal marketing philosophy and like how you tend to think about what good marketing is today. Kyree 01:05:59.710 - 01:08:22.080 Yeah. Marketing is human behavior in action. If I can tell why you do something or why you believe something about yourself, I can sell something to you. And I can sell an idea or I can sell a product, or I can sell the concept of a business to you. I can sell the belief of you'll get money from this or you'll get success from this. And I've had to choose because I look at everything as the end user and what it means to them that it is. It has removed a lot of the marketing opportunities from me throughout time. There are a lot of things I just won't touch and I won't do because I don't think it benefits the end person. But marketing to me is the better I can believe, the better I can make somebody believe something, the better I am at selling them that thing. And so it's, it's usually attached to a story. This means, what about you buying this product or buying into this idea or buying my product, this clean, you know, cleaning product, or this clean laundry detergent or this thing always says something about you. I'm the type of person who does this. I'm the type of person who has this. That's the same thing. Lamborghini sells and Ferrari sells and Louis Vuitton sells. I'm the type of person who has this or who does this. And I think good marketing speaks to people. In quiet. The things that they tell themselves in private. And I think they all, like, they cut to a core of what you actually believe about yourself. And sometimes really, really good marketing cuts to the core. Something you would never say to somebody else or that you would never articulate out loud. And it's not like, that's not usually products. That's usually like the idea behind a business. We like Nike because it tells you to go out and do. And I'm a person who does. And so I buy Nike because I'm a person who goes out and does. But I think the core of good marketing is being able to speak to some story that somebody has built up with themselves that this product makes me more of who I say I am. And that's what your product has to do to somebody, is it has to affirm a story that they currently tell themselves about themselves, or it has to replace their current negative story with something positive. You have to build a dream life, and then your product or your service is the bridge toward that dream life that they aspire to. Joel 01:08:22.720 - 01:08:42.560 Yeah. So, for example, with you as like a masculinity coach, like, what are this. What are the stories that you're speaking to that, you know, within the men that are coming across your work, your copy, your sites, like, is it back to that worthy ideal? Like, is it, you know, pointing them towards that worthy ideal? Kyree 01:08:43.449 - 01:10:06.770 You don't have to choose anymore. So I, I put two guys in unfairly. I put two guys. I put guys in two different buckets that most men have been either sacrificing love for respect or respect for love. And they've made that transaction permeate everything that they do. I'm either going to risk being less loved to be more respected, which is oftentimes more feared, or nobody wants to deal with me, so they're going to move out of my way anyway, or I've been trading being respectable for love, which is usually actually just some attention. And I think that that transaction is something that most men, I think all men to some degree have told ourselves we have to be one or the other. I'm allowed to have one and I'm not allowed to have the other thing. And so it's opening people up to the possibility that that transaction was a false dichotomy, that that transaction was a false binary that you told yourself you had to buy into. I got rewarded when I did this and I got beaten down when I did this. So I'm just going to choose the thing that I was rewarded for and I'm going to spam that thing over and over again. It's like playing those little fighter arcade games where I'm just going to punch the, do the punch button over and over again and hope something good happens. I think a lot of people are in that space of eventually this way of doing things is going to work out where just like in dating, we've had to broaden our scope of what a man looks like. I've had to broaden my scope to accept the potential that I'm allowed to have both these things. I can be loved and I can be respected. Joel 01:10:08.380 - 01:10:35.550 Yeah. Yeah. So, like, what do you see as, like, when you look around in like this new age of, you know, digital marketing, online coaching, online businesses, online products and services, etc. Like when it comes to the bridge of like, authenticity or the axiom of authenticity, what are the major pitfalls or red flags that just when you see it out in the world, like, makes you cringe,. Kyree 01:10:37.550 - 01:10:39.310 Like with authenticity content? Joel 01:10:40.670 - 01:11:08.280 Well, I mean, it's like for me, good marketing is deeply tied to what's really true, you know, what's, what's really authentic. Yet at the same time, we're seeing all these businesses prop up, just trying to teach people how to make more money through marketing techniques or copywriting techniques, you know, and I would call, I would call that inauthentic to an extent. So like, what are the things that trigger red flags for you? Just generally speaking, you know, when you, when you look at, when you look at the marketing online today. Kyree 01:11:08.920 - 01:14:48.980 Yeah. If the, if the end story that they're trying to tell show you isn't, I would say isn't holistically good for you. But that sounds hard to grasp for a lot of people because I don't think it's selling authenticity. Like, I don't think marketing is authenticity anymore. That's why when you search up the best whatever, you're not going to get the best of whatever that is anymore. And when I remember growing up, if I wanted the best vacuum cleaner. I'm just going to see what the best vacuum cleaner is on Google and it's going to show me what the best vacuum cleaner is or the best product, whatever category. Now I'm just going to find the guy who's best at SEO or who's running the most ads and spending the most money. So I don't think it's around authenticity again. I think they're selling a story. A lot of times, this is why it's important to know who you are and what is for you and what is not for you is that those things, those distinctions become so clear so fast. That sounds awesome, but that's not for me. This crypto thing, this NFT thing, this thing that I don't fully understand or don't grasp or don't have a concept for, that's cool, and other people can benefit from it, and I hope they do. That's just not for me. I was at the, the Berkshire Hathaway meeting this year and Warren Buffett was doing. They were interviewing him on cnbc and they were asking him about what, what an investment he's excited for. And he's like, I don't know if it's public knowledge. They have a lot of money in cash reserves. And they were like, what are you doing with it? What are you going for with this thing? And he goes, there's nothing I'm excited about right now. It's not being pulled into the distraction of this cool shiny object. But it's only because again, for him, he's 94 years old. He just so, so deeply understands who he is and who they are as a company that anything that is outside of that, he's like, I don't invest in AI. I don't invest in cryptocurrencies. I don't invest in these things. I leave that to the young, hungry guys that are willing to be distracted by these things. I invest in principles and I invest in fundamental practices of the business. He doesn't get excited. I think that's a big tell, is the excitement is a filter through which you're looking at something. And so I have a rule for myself. I don't buy services on a sales call. And I tell people upfront when they talk to me about it. And I also don't expect that of people with me. And I do the exact opposite of what every salesperson tells you is when I'm on calls with people, I say, go talk to your wife about it. Don't tell me today, don't tell me right now. Go talk to the people who matter to you before you come back and talk to me. Because if you're buying it because you're excited, you're just not going to be a good person for me to work with most of the time. I've had that blow up my face way too many times. So now I have the patience to be able to send you off and hope you come back and know that only the right people are going to come back. That's just not. That's been de. Incentivized in marketing. Marketing is, let me capitalize on the excitement of this person that I've created a dream world that they can then step into and buy my product as the bridge between them and their dream world. So I know that that's what works now. I would say, though, when you're able to slow down, you're able to clear out that excitement filter or that dread filter, right? A lot of it's avoiding pain. I'm going to buy this product because it's going to alleviate a pain that I have. This is big Pharma. It's going to alleviate this thing that currently ails me. And so I'm going to buy this thing. Not understanding fully what it is. People buy into business opportunities, right? Not knowing exactly what it is or believing in a piece of what the person said, not realizing that person's job is to make you feel this way. It's to make you think about their product in this way. And I think more people who are able to settle in with themselves do a much better time not getting scammed and schemed and buying ship products online because you don't need most of the things that are out there. Once you realize what's for you, you so clearly can indicate what's not for you. Yerasimos 01:14:50.020 - 01:14:50.660 Well said. Joel 01:14:52.180 - 01:15:33.890 Yeah, totally, man. I think you're right. I think, I think the future is definitely like discerning what things are trying to pull on your emotional waves, your emotional peaks, your emotional lows. And this is a very human experience generally. I don't know if you're familiar with the system of human design, but 50% of the population are emotional authorities per human design. So we live on these emotional waves. And I think so much of marketing is just pulling and playing on on that, you know, But I think the authenticity really cuts through when you're able to do like what you said, it's like, no, just take your time, go speak to your wife, go sit with this, go, you know, speak to people who matters and then make a decision from there. Kyree 01:15:34.210 - 01:16:37.990 Yeah, far in the. In the right now direction. Short form content, fast, fast, quick, quick. That I think the market is on the beginning of an ascent toward long form content. You have to be honest, you have to be genuine. They have to be able to see it over time. My normal buying cycle for a client is like a year to a year and a half after clicking Follow on my profile, on Facebook or on Instagram to hiring me for something. Follow. Unless they're absolutely in turmoil right now and a friend comes and goes, hey, you need to talk with this guy. Those ones are obviously very different. But if a guy is living his life normally, it's usually about a year to a year and a half after following me that he ends up hiring me. Because you just have to see it over and especially with something that I do. Like, I'm not selling you a car. I'm. You have to be so open with me in order to get the right things out of working with me that you have to trust everything that comes out of my mouth. And so for a lot of people, you have to have had time, under tension, of seeing me be the same person over and over again. I think we're moving in that direction where you just have to see so many repetitions of somebody showing up the exact same way over time. Joel 01:16:38.390 - 01:16:41.510 Which is kind of what your wife needs from you as well, right? Kyree 01:16:41.910 - 01:16:51.030 Absolutely, Absolutely. That's why I have clients over to my house. I have clients come meet with my friend group. They've come to my weekly poker game. I played a poker game. Yerasimos 01:16:51.920 - 01:16:53.360 Oh, damn. Weekly poker game. Kyree 01:16:53.360 - 01:16:57.080 Oh, yeah. Wednesday nights I played. We played to like 5am too. Yerasimos 01:16:57.080 - 01:16:58.640 I'm taking a drive to Arizona, bro. Kyree 01:16:59.680 - 01:18:08.160 The good thing is, so the net worth around the table is over. I. I would safely say it's over a billion dollars. You cannot pay to get in this game. You cannot buy your way into that game. You have to know somebody and that person has a vouch for you, like unequivocally vouch for you to be in that game. And I have clients that will come sit in and they can banter and they can talk, because if they're in the room, then I trust them and they now then borrow the trust that everybody else around that table has for me by you being allowed to sit in that room. I have clients come over to my house. I just had a friend who's been a client of mine over to my house for 4th of July, and it was his first time meeting my wife and meeting my Kids, you get to just see the thing that I'm doing, and you get to see that it's honest. And obviously not everybody's allowed in my home, but it's opened up to people so that they don't have to wonder if you can actually do the both things, right? The success and the business and the here's the network and here's the cool guys that I get to hang out with. But also just, here's me playing on the trampoline with my kids or playing in the pool with my kids or throwing my son in the water. Like, you get to see that. That you're allowed to have the fullness of what life has to offer you, and that it's not wrapped around some gimmicky marketing tactic. Joel 01:18:11.930 - 01:18:12.570 Nice, man. Yerasimos 01:18:13.530 - 01:18:15.770 You play hold them, we play hold. Kyree 01:18:15.770 - 01:18:18.730 Them, we play hold them, and then at midnight, we play mixed games. Yerasimos 01:18:20.010 - 01:18:26.090 That's cool. I don't play. I don't. I. I played years ago, man, but I just. Yeah, you know, it's just. That's awesome. Kyree 01:18:26.570 - 01:19:10.390 It's fun, dude. I enjoy it. That's where I get to be manipulative. Like poker, my natural inclination is find the loophole. Find the the again. When I was doing the interviews, I wasn't supposed to be in most of the places I was in, but I'm gonna try it. And if I get told no, I'm going to respect the no. I talk to young guys about that. Like, you need a mix of audacity and courtesy. So I'm going to be audacious to go try the thing that I'm maybe not. I'm not supposed to do. And the courtesy of when somebody goes, hey, you're not allowed to do that. Go, oh, I'm so sorry. I'll never do it again. And I think audacity and courtesy gets you so so far. And poker is where I just get to be, like, mean, dirty, manipulative, while still smiling and laughing at people. But, like, I can talk you into things. I can make you believe that I'm doing something I'm not doing. Like, I enjoy that side of things, but it exists in that container of poker. Yerasimos 01:19:10.390 - 01:19:58.520 Exactly, man. You tap into different parts of you. Like, I remember I've come across some people that know me in a certain context, and then we get on a. On a ping pong table or we're playing a game of Monopoly deal, and they're like, holy, I didn't realize you were, like, competitive. And I'm just like, I'm just focused. I'm focused on doing thing. I still have fun, you know, but it's like, I think this is one of the best parts about being human is that we have so much to pull from in different situations. And so to be able to have like your homies or clients and just have fun and play, play poker with and to, you know, to tap into those parts of you, man, that's, that's exciting. Like if you one thing, if you were 247 manipulative and, and cheating people, you know, like, yeah, you're like, hey, I'm gonna talk some. Like it's not, it's not appropriate to talk all the time to everyone. But when you're with your homies, you know you're gonna talk some smack and you're talking and I think that's, that's space for it. Kyree 01:19:58.680 - 01:20:32.410 I, I work at the cigar lounge on Wednesday, so I take all my in person meetings and I do zoom calls at the cigar lounge. It's an hour away from my house. And that's why I get to. And I get to have fun and I get to like, nothing's super serious. The guys are fun and they're bitching about whatever and they're mad about this and usa Like I'm excited for was it that tomorrow USA Soccer lost. Nobody cares about soccer other than every four years unless you play it. So I get to hear everybody gripe about it and I get to make fun of them for a sport they only care about once every four years you get to do that thing and that thing again. It just allows me to be everything else that I am all the other time. Joel 01:20:32.490 - 01:20:51.290 Yep. Nah, man. Thank you so much, dude. Super valuable conversation and yeah, bro, really appreciate the, the experience and the way that you've articulated it the past 90 minutes. For sure, dude. You have anything I guess in closing or any, I mean final passing message for those attuned right now? Kyree 01:20:56.340 - 01:21:22.990 Yeah, I, I would say the one takeaway would be again, go find what that worthy ideal is. And like later is never. And so put a time on your calendar. If somebody's listening to this right now, put a time over the next three days because you're not going to be 247 busy over the next three days sometime to carve out like 20 to 30 minutes to just start asking yourself the question of what a worthy ideal is. What is that thing that I can pull myself toward? Yep, that's it. Joel 01:21:23.310 - 01:21:30.270 Awesome, man. And how can people connect with you, find you? I guess stay tuned into what you're putting out there. Kyree 01:21:30.510 - 01:21:49.470 Yeah, Instagram is just at Kyrie. It's usually the easiest way. Shoot me a DM on there. Facebook is where I post most my content. I post 3 times a day on Facebook. I don't remember, like, the link, but if you look up Kyrie Oliver and my mug comes up, that's me. Yeah. Instagram and Facebook are probably the easiest ways right now. Joel 01:21:49.870 - 01:21:56.350 Awesome, man. Well, dude, thank you so much. Appreciate the time you've given us and really looking forward to people hearing this one. Kyree 01:21:56.670 - 01:21:58.430 Yeah, thank you, guys. Thank you for having me on. Joel 01:21:58.510 - 01:21:59.150 Thanks, man.