Joel & Yerasimos Life, Death & Purpose

[Speaker 3] (0:00 - 0:07) You are now listening to the Here for the Truth Podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Yerasimos. [Speaker 1] (0:10 - 20:19) All right, everyone, welcome back to the Here for the Truth Podcast. I'm Joel Rafiti, got my co-host Yerasimos with me as always. This is episode 170 and today it's just the two of us. Every so often we just have these conversations which really harken back to how this podcast started, which was us just sitting down, hitting record, and seeing what flows. So, bro, how are you? I'm okay, man, you know, just to be real. I think for many people, not for many, for those of you that follow me on social media or connected to me on Facebook, Instagram, you may have read that my father passed away Tuesday the 27th. So I flew back to New Jersey. My brother flew back and we just, you know, had to sort everything out and handle funeral arrangements for my dad. And we had his viewing visitation on Sunday and his funeral service this past Monday. So, you know, that's been weighing on me heavy. You know, my father lived a pretty amazing full life. Lived up until 93 years old. He would have been 94 in June. But no matter what, you know, however old your parent is or someone in your life, it's, you know, a loss is still a loss. So, you know, I've been navigating as best as I can. You know, it still feels a bit surreal, you know? And at the same time, like, you know, you find your moments to mourn and grieve and, you know, I'm doing my best to be strong for my mom as well. So it's, you know, it's a combination of things. But, you know, the silver lining of something like that at the viewing on Sunday, it was really nice to see so many people from our past come and pay their last respects to my dad. And so to see old family members, friends, old neighbors from, like, decades ago. And I think the thing that really touched me the most is, like, seeing former employees of his come. Because it's one thing when, like, friends and, you know, family come, you know, it's like, but like when, you know, he sold his business 13 years ago and he's been retired. So to see people that worked for him and that loved him and respected him, you know, just, I mean, I know my dad's character, but it's just another thing to, that highlights that, you know, that people came, you know, so many years after working for him to honor him. And, you know, it's just... Lovely, bro. It is tough, man. Loss is not easy, you know, and it feels like something that's definitely been a lot more prevalent, you know, recently it's coming, I think, to the forefront for both of us and for many others. I don't know if they're noticing it as well, but something that, you know, many of us tacitly spend their entire lives believing that, you know, we're not going to be in that experience or that, you know, we're going to live forever, that the people that we love and care about, you know, but then one day we have to cross that bridge and all of a sudden we're presented with a brand new experience, which we have to navigate, which we haven't navigated before. And it's tough to grapple with. It definitely is, man. And, you know, we live in a culture that, I mean, death isn't something that's really talked about very often, you know, it's kind of just pushed into the rug and then all of a sudden a thing happens and you lose someone and, you know, many people don't really know how to navigate it, you know. And again, you can't, like, I've told myself, like, for years, you know, when you have an older father who's, you know, 93, even like, I feel like 10, 15 years ago when he's at 80, like, I start contemplating these things and going, okay, well, my dad one day is going to pass. I mean, most people don't even live to get to 80. So, you know, he's 80 years old and I'm like, okay, like, let me contemplate this. Let me think about this. Like, what will happen? How will I feel? You know, so this has been something that has been on my mind for a long time. And on one side, I feel like it helped prepare me, you know, because I wasn't like, it didn't just come out of nowhere. And I've been thinking about this moment or what it would be like. And at the same time, like you said, like, it's still just in theory, you know, until the moment and the experience happens, you don't know. And, you know, the reality is it's like memento mori, you know, remember you will die. Like, that knowing, you know, it's a real thing. And people, many people, the concept of death comes up or the thought of it, and they don't even, they can't entertain it. They don't want to talk about it. They want to change the subject. And, you know, I think it does people a disservice in the long run. Well, I mean, it really is such a root fear that is prevalent for all of us. And I mean, in many ways, it's that fear which can often drive and dictate the choices that we make in our life, you know, even through, I guess, unconsciously wanting to avoid the topic, you know, that can direct and impact the decisions that we make and how we live our lives. But ultimately, I mean, it is a primordial aspect of reality that cannot be avoided at all. I'm not sure if I've shared on the podcast, but some of you know, and, you know, my wife has shared and I've shared, but Alyssa experienced, I guess, a miscarriage with our third child. And we discovered that news last November when she was 19 weeks. And, you know, I remember, like, in the first three odd months of the pregnancy, like, contemplating, you know, for some, for one reason or another, like, what that experience would be like, you know, if that was going to happen. And then, you know, for her to experience the symptoms she experienced, like, obviously, we didn't get any ultrasounds. In the beginning, our plan was to have no ultrasounds at all for this pregnancy. But then we'll put in a position where we needed confirmation of what was going on. And then, you know, you're told the news that, you know, the baby's heart isn't beating. And again, such a surreal experience in that moment to be like, for reality, you know, for your deepest fears to come to reality. And then for you to have to navigate that and shift and understand. And, you know, as a man, try to hold space, you know, I've got two daughters as well, as well as my wife. Obviously, it impacts her the hardest. And it's just new psychological terrain, you know, which we have to navigate. And yeah, I don't know what to say about it. But it's just, I mean, it can't be avoided. And so, what do we do in the face of that? Yeah. It was interesting that we were going through things at a similar time. Obviously, you know, my father just recently passed, but he had been in the hospital in November and December as you were navigating this. And it's like, you think about like two opposite ends of the spectrum, you know, about to be the earliest stages of life and the latest stages of life. Yeah. And yeah, man, I don't think any other person can prepare you for this. Sure, you can read and contemplate and learn, but this is a journey that you have to go on. And grief is something that's so personal. Yeah. It's very personal. And it's something that operates on its own timing as well, you know. And I think so often in our culture from that fear of death, you know, with the masses in many ways are motivated to mask the pain of death and even to mask death itself. When you think about some of the practices that take place, I know particularly, you know, when Alyssa was going through what she was going through, there was no one that was talking about like how to consciously go through this process. There was so much just encouragement to like get it over and done with. You know, some people have this experience and like just flush the baby down the toilet, which I think is like so disconnected. Obviously not to place any judgment, but I mean like... It's your opinion, you know, I mean, and you're allowed to have an opinion and I would agree with that. And it's incredible, like the journey that Alyssa went on, you know, and trusting herself and trusting her body to take kind of a natural course through it all. Yeah. For those that don't know, she pretty much carried the baby for nearly three months after we discovered that it was no longer alive and still allowed it to birth naturally in its own timing. So, it was only birthed late January. Just, yeah. So, massive pride and kudos to Alyssa for, you know, doing what she did and trusting her body and moving through the grief, moving through the pain, moving through the incredible uncertainty that comes with an experience like that. There's so much fear mongering around, you know, carrying a baby that's no longer living. Yeah. But honestly, it's like, by consciously moving through the process, you know, by allowing the natural timing of the grief and the mourning to do its thing, I think it really has the potential to like open up new space within us and provide us with, I guess, new depth as human beings as well, newfound appreciation for the gift of life. And also, for me in particular, like it's even more of a curiosity for like what happens or what exists beyond this human experience. Yeah, man. Based on what you said, it just reminded me of one of my favorite quotes that I've shared often with people from rooming. And it's like, you have to keep breaking your heart so it can open. And like, what does that mean? You know, like obviously you don't need to purposefully like cause pain to yourself, but I just mean like having the ability to feel the pain and to allow yourself to feel what's present, you know, just and be vulnerable just keeps opening up that part of you and connects you to something deeper and makes you more sensitive and compassion. I think in all the right ways, I think many people do it. I mean, we've talked about this, do whatever they can to distract themselves from feeling, from acquainting themselves even more directly with reality, you know, whether it's through substances, whether it's through excessive scrolling on social media, whether it's through, you know, any other form of quote unquote addiction as opposed to just like, what's real right now? What's happening? Do I have the capacity? Does my nervous system have the capacity again? Like, you know, nervous system is such a huge piece to all this. Do you have, because again, it's easy to want to like judge or shame someone, but it's like, do they even have the capacity to kind of hold, hold that intense feeling or that discomfort? And for many people they don't. And it's, it's just something that is part of the process of, of moving forward and connecting and, and healing is, is that is being capable of and, and that's the journey in itself. Yeah. And you know, it's okay if you don't, but like, are you willing to try, you know, when the experience comes, are you willing to try to sit with it, to not run, you know, to not dive into manic self-soothing? And can you allow that pain to be a real motivator for expansion in one's life? Yeah. And sometimes an event like this is just like, it's just too much that it will, like you can have decades of suppression and repression, but something so final or so intense as the death of someone, you know, of a soul leaving their body is just like, is what opens things up, you know? Yeah. Like I, I mean, I, I think back to my, my dad, like, you know, very stoic Greek man, you know, would not show emotion, uh, very old school, but he built like the deepest, deepest, like companionship and love with his first dog, Puffy, like just, I mean, they were inseparable and he passed away similarly. It's kind of wild. He passed away in a similar manner and in the same room as my dad. Wow. Did almost exact. I mean, maybe I'll get into my father's story, but when he, when, when Puffy passed away, my dad was, was turned into like emotional rubble. I had never seen my dad that just broken that vulnerable. Like he could, he could barely even talk, but it was like that deep love for that animal and that animal passing and him. And literally like the way it happened was like the dog came into the room. My dad hangs out in, you know, their little TV room, my mom and dad hang out in. And he kinda, he was, he was dealing with like, um, like heart issues and, and kind of breathing stuff like my dad was dealing with. And he just walked into the, he walked, he kind of like waddled into the room. My mom put him on the couch. He went and like, look deeply into my mom's eyes and then turned to the left or to the right and walked to my dad, looked into his eyes deeply and then just laid his head on my dad's lap and passed away. And like, again, like I'm grateful it happened that that way that he, that the dog was with them. And like, you know, prior to that, like my dad lost my, my brother and my half brother, his firstborn son, you know, and, and there's so many things that my dad had gone through in his life. I mean, his story is, it's pretty wild. And I feel like that opening of the passing of puffy of the dog, like allowed him to mourn all of that, all of that, that came before, you know, and I'm grateful. And I'm grateful that he had that kind of pure connection with this animal. I think opened his heart up, um, in such a way that allowed him to feel deeply, you know, and, and since that moment there was a sensitivity that my dad had that wasn't there before. Yeah. So yeah, man, it's, uh, it's pretty wild. Yeah. Well, you know, like the reality is, is that this is a finite experience and everything that exists beyond this finite experience, regardless of, you know, how certain people feel about some things ultimately is a mystery. And so, how does that impact, you know, one's behavior? How does that impact how one meets relationship, how one meets themselves, how consciously one decides to meet reality, um, to have a really stark look at their own lives and what's manifested in their own realities and what they really want and what decisions they haven't made. Um, and in many ways, the, the, the, you know, the decisions that have, I guess, put truth on the back burner, um, for the sake of, I guess, keeping the peace or for, um, you know, not wanting to share how we really feel with someone or to share how something's really impacted us or to actually let even people know how much we actually care about them and how meaningful they are to us. And, you know, this whole thing has got me like rethinking, you know, even like the petty grudges that we can be so inclined to hold, you know, in our lives. And some of these grudges go on for years, decades where, you know, we don't speak to another individual because of, you know, something that took place such a long time ago. And then we've just become so unwilling to, you know, reopen that bridge of communication. And I mean, some things need to play their course, but it's like, how does, you know, one's mortality impact the way that we reassess those things? Oh yeah, for sure, man. I mean, I, I'm, I'm, I'm grateful. You know, my dad didn't talk to one of his siblings for 30 plus years. And, um, you know, I don't know how many years ago now, maybe 10 plus years ago, you know, they had a reconciliation before she passed away. So I'm grateful for that. And even my father in his, in his older years, I mean, the last couple of years, I feel like a lot of things were, you know, weighing on his mind about things from the past. And they were just, I feel like causing him excess, like stress. And I don't think he had a process, you know, like when you're old school, it's like, my dad's not like, I've done this many years of personal development work. And like, he's an old school Greek, you know, he just, you know, um, you know, he started working at six years old. He left school at six and then just kept going and worked until he was 80. You know, I won't go, go into his story. Maybe I'll post his obituary, uh, and the show notes, you know, you can read a little bit about his story, but like, you know, my dad was going through all this stuff and like, I'm actually grateful that the, the priests from the church, um, that they went to, he came over, um, maybe like a month ago. And I guess you can say, I wouldn't say it was a confession, but he was there holding space for my dad as he was just sharing all this stuff that he needed to get off of his chest. And from that moment, even my mom told me, you know, a couple of days ago that like there was a piece to him these last, you know, couple, couple months because he was able to share some of this stuff, you know? And I just like, again, it just brings me back to memento mori, like remember you will die. And like utilizing that as a spiritual practice, like we're all going to go one day, it could be tomorrow. It can be in 10 years. It can be in 60 years. What do you do with this gift of life? What are you doing with it? What has been left undone? Unsaid? What dreams do you have? You know, where are you staying complacent and comfortable in your life? Like what do you really fucking want in your life? What's, what's the experience that you really want to be having? You know, who are you, who are you allowing to take power away from you, you know, in life? Like, where are you giving it away? What, what do you really, again, I keep coming back to what do you really, really want deep down inside? Yeah. Because it's like, yeah, sure. Maybe we have other lives, you know, I'm not going to sit here and say for certain. I mean, I tend to think the soul lives on and their incarnations, but like right now, all we know is we got this one. We're here. Like there, we don't know what happens after once we take that last breath and life leaves us. So like, what are you, what are you waiting for? [Speaker 3] (20:20 - 20:20) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (20:20 - 27:43) What are you holding onto? What, what, what, like Joel, you were saying the grudges, like, what do you need to say to someone? How do you need to clear the air with a sibling, with a parent, with a friend? There's so much energy pent up in unsaid dialogue. In words that haven't been shared, there's so much vital life force that we withhold from ourselves. And the pain of regret, of knowing that you were going to go call someone, that you were going to see someone, that you were going to visit someone. And then you were like, no, I'll do it next week. No, you know, I'll do it later. And then they pass. And then you have to live with that. You have to live with that. That thing went unsaid or undone. You know, that's probably part of, you know, I'm not saying that that's not part of your own journey and the lessons you need to learn. But again, like, if we can create 5%, 10% less suffering in our lives, then why not? Yeah. I think, you know, like de-armoring when and where we can is so vital to our ongoing well-being and not only our well-being, but also our creative potential. And I think a lot of stagnancy is compounded and accrued through the things that we hold on to. And, you know, through our own fears that come with meeting ourselves, meeting reality, and meeting relationships in the full power of the truth. And I've said this for a long time, but to me, like, the truth is the ultimate self-development tool, right? It cuts away the debris. It leaves you naked. It strips you down bare. And in that process, and only then in that process, do you then have the ability to consciously choose and navigate reality based on what is actually being presented to us as real, as the truth. And so, just the more that we can, because that gives us the opportunity to come to equilibrium, to come into balance. You know, we start coming off balance when we start weighing too much down on one side, when we start building a habit of white lying or start building a habit of repression and not saying things and not letting people know how we really feel, or, you know, letting our partners continually do something or speak to us in a certain way that we're not into. And that, you know, but for the sake of, we believe, keeping the harmony or keeping the peace or, you know, maintaining the status quo, not shaking up our experience, you know, like, where do those fears come from? And there's no greater source of power and potential than internal balance. And to me, that internal balance really speaks to self-esteem. Yeah. Was it Mark yesterday in our call in Rise of the Heard where he said truth, someone told him the phrase truth over harmony, was that it? Yeah, I don't know. Truth over harmony, was that it? I can't remember what the saying was, but I think it's a false harmony. Very often people, you know, think they're living, you know, it's not. Most people live under the precedence of harmony over truth, right? And this is where we get this whole culture of sweeping things under the rug, you know, like many of us in our family histories, like so much was just swept under the rug, which ultimately, like, it doesn't go anywhere, it just gets built up to be able to come out in more toxic and intense ways later on. But it's a pseudo harmony. Yeah, that's right. It's not a real harmony, you know, it's just like this superficial, like, oh, everything's great. Cool. Oh, hi. Yeah, everything's fine. Okay. I won't say the things I won't say the fact that you've like betrayed me or, you know, crossed boundaries or disrespected me because, you know, I don't want to cause any drama. I just want to, quote unquote, keep the peace. But it's it doesn't help things out in the long run. Yeah. No, it's a Band-Aid on a gash. Yeah. That's a pretty good visual right there. Oh, man. It's been such a lack of breath. The first two and a half months of 2024, like, it feels like years. It feels like years of processing, years of different ways of evolving, like the experiences that, you know, I think we've had at least it's been so intense. And, you know, for me, unexpected in many ways. And it feels like as time goes on, man, like, I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's just shifting away from like, you know, a childlike way of being and thinking and, you know, the responsibilities of adulthood and, you know, life coming in hotter and heavier as we, you know, go deeper along our journey. But, man, sometimes weeks feel like months. Sometimes months feel like years right now. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely a rite of passage. I think losing a loved one, a parent, you know, a son losing a father, you know, this is something I obviously am experiencing for the first time. You can only experience it once in that regard. And I felt something the minute I got the call from my mom, you know, which was a really late, late Monday night, which was technically early Tuesday morning here on the East Coast. It was Monday night for me in California. Like, I felt something just shift immediately in me. Yeah. I don't know how to explain it. There's something different. Like, dad's not there. Like, this figure that was such a huge presence in our lives is no longer here in the physical. And as far as whether he's here, his spirit is here, you know, I don't know. You know, maybe he'll come to me. Maybe I'll sense him. I can't say for sure. But, like, he's no longer here. Like, the role he played in our family. For my mom, too, you know, my mom is a very strong woman. But, you know, she's broken right now to a certain degree. Still handling stuff, you know. I mean, for you human design people out there, both my parents are manifestors. So, you know, they don't fuck around. And my dad, too. Like, my dad, like, he lived on his own terms. And he went out like a beast, you know. I mean, he really did. He didn't. Even up to, like, the last day, like, he took a shower. He didn't want to. He didn't need any help. Like, we got from hospice, we got the little chair he could sit on. He's like, I don't need no chair. He's standing up in the shower, doing his thing. He was taking out the garbage the morning of. And, you know, that night, or early morning, if you want to say, like, he just, you know, was having some issues again with the breathing. [Speaker 2] (27:44 - 27:45) My mom always sees this. What time was it? [Speaker 1] (27:46 - 34:50) I think it was, like, 1, 2 a.m. in the morning on the east coast time. Because it was late for me when I got the phone call to our house line and I saw that it was my mom. And right when I saw that she called the house line, I knew right away. Because it was 1130 or 1030, 11, I can't remember exactly. So, I add three hours and I'm like, this is early morning and my mom's calling the house line. And she was saying my dad was having some issues. He was really kind of scared. And then, you know, I had to call hospice again to make sure. Because it was after hours. So, like, it's a little trickier getting a nurse there, like, immediately. Anyways, like, my dad was going through what he was going through. And then my mom just tells a story that, like, you know, he needed some air. He went over to the window to get some air and, like, you know, yelled out some Greek prayers, like, you know, Virgin Mary, help me, or something like that. And then he went back into their little TV room again, the same room that Puffy passed away in. And he kind of, like, stumbled a little bit. And, like, you know, he got up, my mom helped him up. And he pretty much told my mom, like, you know, I'm going to go out. I'm going to leave this world. And, like, he sat back and, like, leaned over. And, like, the life left him. Wow. Like, you know, like. Like, what is that moment? What is that moment, you know? Yeah. Well, you know, yeah. And, like, my mom was saying, like, she started feeling, like, his hands were a little cold. And then she, like, looked at him. And then, like, she just knew that, like, something in his eyes went. And he was gone. You know, I'm, like, simplifying the story. It was more to it, obviously. But. And how was your mama at that time? I mean, she was, you know, it was really, really hard for her. You know, she was. The hospice nurse came right after. So, she was able to kind of confirm it, what we knew. And be with my mom for, you know, a few hours. And my dad. And little Jack, you know, his little Pomeranian was right there, you know, with him. And kind of sitting at his feet, like, protecting him, even while he had passed away. And my mom wanted to spend a little time with him before the funeral home came and picked, you know, my father's body up. So, yeah, I can't imagine that. You know, like, for my mom, like, that's, like, she has to hold on to that visual and those moments for her as part of the grieving. And, you know, I think that's tough for her. Like, remembering those moments. And at the same time, the gratitude that he is home. That he was home. And that's what we wanted. You know, he went to the, he was in the hospital in November for a few days. I flew back to New Jersey for that because he was having trouble breathing. And then he was, he got back out of the hospital and, you know, he was fine for a couple months. And then the same thing happened. And they called 911 and they brought him to the hospital. And that experience at the hospital was just horrible for him. Five days. And he hated it. All he could think about was Jack and being home for his little Pomeranian. You know, psychoemotionally, he was really impacted. Like, he kind of was like, I don't know who knows with all like the drugs that they were giving him. And also being in an unfamiliar environment. I know for old elderly people, it's not good. So, like, psychoemotionally, he wasn't fully there in the hospital. And so, when he came out, that second time, we, as a family, we're like, and he even wanted not to go to the hospital again. We're like, we're not, this is not happening. You're not going back to the hospital. We were able to, through New Jersey Hospice, you know, they were great setting everything up and, you know, they'd have a couple of nurses come to the house. At first, my dad was on oxygen for a bit, but then he didn't even need the oxygen. He was just off of it, just doing his thing. I mean, moving slowly, but just kind of doing his thing. And it's like wild, you know, 93 years old and you're like walking around doing your thing. Sure. You know, you're starting to, you know, slow down, but I mean, that's the respect I have for him. You know, like, I can't imagine, like, they just don't make people like my dad and that generation anymore. Like, it's just, it's really wild when you think about it. You know, he left school at six to start to work as like a sheepherder in Greece. He was born on the island of Kefalonia in Greece and just worked and worked and worked and worked and worked seven days a week for decades until, you know, in 1997, he had some heart issues and had a major surgery. I was 17 at the time, triple bypass heart surgery. And I think he realized, okay, I probably need to like, take it easy a bit. And so that's when they, you know, were spending a few months a year in Greece. But other than that, like, he's just, he didn't, they don't know. He didn't know. He just kind of like handled shit and never complained. I think my dad was 90 years old. Just a few years ago was the first time I ever heard him complain about something physical. Like, oh, my knee hurts. Never ever did I hear him complain about pain in his body. Sure, he might complain about life and work and business, but not his own body. And I think, again, like there's something to say, even from a GNM standpoint, like there was no self-devaluing there, you know, in terms of having, you know, issues with his joints and muscles. Like he just was like, yo, I'm a gangster and I'm living life and no one's like, I'm going to do what I want to do on my own terms from like a young age. And yeah, I get it. Times are different and like, I'm not going to be my dad, but there's so much to take from that generation of like, you know, you're looking what, four generations ago or something like that. The perseverance, the discipline, the diligence, the hard work, the like, you know, what was, what's the Ayn Rand quote that we share? Like, no one's going to stop me. What's, what is that one again? I forget the exact quote. Let me get it. It's like, it's not, but anyways, that quote that I'm thinking of, it's like, it relates to my dad. Like he did. The question is not who's going to let me, it's who's going to stop me. Yeah. And like, that's how he lived his life. You know, he always was in search of a better life, like growing up, like poor on a Greek Island and, you know, one thing leading to the next thing to the next thing that brought him to the U S and working nonstop and, and then saving and saving, and then to start a business. And I don't know, I'm just a lot of respect. You talk about the hero's journey and the heroic journey and being heroic and facing challenges head on and persevering. And it's definitely something that I learned from my father. I mean, I know you can relate with your dad as well in that regards. And, you know, this is definitely man. Yeah, definitely. I think it's a healthy attitude, you know, it's like no matter what happens, like, you know, I've got the power, I'm capable, I'm competent. Like who's going to stop me. I don't need anyone's permission to do the things that I want to do in this life. Let's provide the way that I want to provide, you know, it's an experience of things that I want to experience. [Speaker 3] (34:51 - 34:57) Now a short break from the episode. What feels different now compared to the beginning of the course? [Speaker 2] (34:57 - 37:01) It's just this, just strength and power. At the start of the course, it was about just questioning everything, like even myself questioning everything and just being so unsure, but knowing that I was really shitty at, you know, how things were operating around me. I've always kind of, in this moment of stepping up and being the hero, I think you said in the module, Joel, those like moments where you just do want to kind of shrink back. And I have, you know, when the phone is ringing, I've just gone, oh, do you know what? I'll just, I'll just park this here for a minute and I'll go and do this thing. I've totally done that. I'll take ownership to that. But this time it just feels so good. Like, I don't know, it's not scary. It just feels like the way to go and everything feels really palatable. It feels quite easy. And I know that there's going to be the obstacles and stuff, but even that I'm just ready for, I'm more ready for than ever before. So yeah. And I guess, yeah. Tuning back into just me, just having that responsibility has been a massive thing. As soon as I either go back into the programming, I could just pick it up and go, yep, that was from my childhood or that was from when. And we know that's bullshit. So let's keep going. Just small things in my life just seems so much smoother. And I'm not scared. I'm not scared anymore. I couldn't have done it without you all because this has been such a safe space. I've been able to be so vulnerable because of you guys. And just knowing that you guys are taking the same steps as me has been so humbling. And Joel, and you're awesome and Sophie, just knowing that you have walked this path. I feel like I've worked with people before that don't open up about their journey. They tell me, you know, you can get there and you can do this and you can do that. But they actually haven't really shared the parts that I've needed to connect with in order to kind of believe that that was a path that I could take. But this is, yeah. [Speaker 1] (37:04 - 44:36) That was Sammy that completed round seven of Rise Above the Herd. Round nine is beginning March 26th. So if you'd like to learn more and sign up, go to riseabovetheherd.co. We'd love to have you in there and join us on this next journey. Yeah, or hit the link in the show notes. It's wild to think that when you were 20, your dad was 70. Yeah, he was 50 when I was born. Because, you know, he was going to turn 94 June 9th and I'll be turning 44 June 17th. So yeah, definitely it was interesting having a, I think I only met one person in my life that had like a larger age gap between parents. Wow. And, you know, that's why I'm also grateful he lived as long as he did. Because if he didn't, you know, like a lot of people, their lives end in 70s. So like, I would have lost my father, you know, early in my 20s. And I know there are people unfortunately that lose their father earlier than that. And like, you know, or their mother and, you know, my heart goes out to you. Like, I don't know what that's like. I've had my dad for 43 years. Yeah. You know, but I know it's cliche, but all I can say again is like cherish the moments, you know, and if your intuition tells you something, like jump on it. Like for instance, I didn't know, like my parents spend, they'll spend a few months a year in Greece. And I had a feeling that I may never spend, go to Greece, spend time in Greece with my dad again. And my wife and I, like, you know, we felt that. And so at the last minute we booked a flight and this past September, and we flew to Greece and surprised them. Yeah. And we got to have some more memories. And I'm just grateful that we did that because of, because of that. And so again, like, listen to that, that whisper, listen to those voices, you know, with the people in your lives and with yourself too. And, you know, you pay attention and act on that very often because you never know, you know, so I'm grateful. Yeah. Of course, I would have loved to have more time with him. I would have also loved to like those times where my dad at the end was like repeating the same stories from his past because he loved talking about his past. Like there's times where I was like, oh man, I wish I was a little bit more present. Sometimes I checked out, you know, when he, when he was talking to me and, you know, I don't want to like judge myself heavy, but anyways, I'm, I'm, uh, listen, things weren't perfect. I'm not going to sit here and say like, oh, my dad was the most perfect human being on the planet. He was a great man. He was a principled, principled man. He had a strong character. Um, and you know, it wasn't always easy. You know, when, when you grow up first generation in this, in this country, you know, my dad had a certain idea of how life should be lived. He didn't really, I think he didn't really understand a lot of the choices that I made in my life. And at the end, he didn't really know, know what I do with my life. You know, he's really old school. He doesn't know what a podcast is. My dad could barely use the remote control, you know, like he's old school, you know, my mom kind of knows what I do, you know, with the podcast and the coaching program and all the things over the years that I've learned and studied, but like, it's so outside of their, their scope of understanding. And it's, it's, yeah, it's interesting. You know, I used to want my dad's approval for many years. And then, you know, at some point I came to peace with it and was like, you know, I appreciate the love and the support. Like, you know, we got, we got 50 years difference and just like from a consciousness and language barrier to a certain degree and personal experience barriers, such differences, like. He was born pre-World War II. Dude, my, so this story, I didn't share this story in the obituary because, you know, you're not sharing every specific story in that you're giving kind of an overall picture, but my dad was born and raised on the Island of Kefalonia, which is in the Ionian Sea, closer to Italy. And, you know, my dad's Island was occupied by the Germans in World War II. And so my dad and his like cousin or like close friend, the story goes that they found some flares like that were laying around, they shot him off and it like landed in some like German camp. And like, my dad was captured and brought to this camp and like just placed there, like somewhere where he was about to be shot, like on a firing squad. His friend, cousin got away. And then as right before he was about to be shot, like the officer took out his gun, this other officer came to talk to him and interrupt him. And in that moment, my dad like jumped, jumped like down to like a ridge or a cliff to get away. I was like, this story is like insane to me. Like two seconds later, like I would not have existed. My dad, everything that came after that, you know, you know, it's just like, and even like at age, I think 17 or 18, like he witnessed a murder on his Island. And my dad's such a principled man, he would never rat anyone out, but the person who committed it didn't think so. So they were trying to find my dad and take him out, you know? And so he ended up, that's what ultimately pushed him to leave the Island and go to the mainland and Piraeus and start working, you know, as a, you know, working in the restaurant business as a server. And then from there on, he ended up leaving and working as a merchant, as a chef on merchant Marine vessels. So he did that for 10 years, you know, traveling all around the world as a chef for, for the ships before jumping ship and, you know, land, you know, in America. So anyways, it's just like, it's wild to think that. Yeah. Stories are funny. And like, I think about like the stories we hear throughout history, like recently I've been here and played, I'm playing basketball with a group of men and played Del Carmen. And like, I watched these people play and like, no one keeps like, they keep the score amongst themselves. And like six, seven minutes into a game, like they're arguing over what the score is with 10 people on the floor. I just think about the stories that are passed down over time. Like, you know, not, not to say nothing that your father, your, about your father's story, but in general, like how a story can change when like, oh yeah, you know, it's like insane to think what's real and what's actually been so. No, no, exactly. And like, I even questioned that. That's why, like, I even started this was as the story goes, because like my brother, I think when he was in Greece, like, I think he, I don't know if he met this family friend and he said the same story, you know? So I don't know, like, I don't know to what degree it's true. You know, I have no reason to believe it's not true, but things, you know, over time can sometimes like details can be left out. Very often, like sometimes me and my wife can't agree on the details of a conversation that was had 10 minutes ago. Yeah. Let alone, you know, decades, decades ago. Like think about a game of Chinese whispers, you know, like. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's wild. It's wild. But you know, I think about like the old, the old world, man. Like in that regard, it's like generations ago, you know, island life, you know, what that was like, like you're talking about, like, just no holds barred, you know, like people just did whatever they wanted back then. [Speaker 2] (44:37 - 44:38) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (44:38 - 53:40) And I mean. The police state wasn't what it was, wasn't what it is today back then. In 50 years, they're going to be looking back at us, you know, they lived without virtual reality. That wasn't like, what's, what an experience was, what would that have been like? Yeah. It's pretty wild, you know, but again, like, well, I was going to say another thing too. It's like, you know, my dad went up to second grade, you know, and yet he created a life for himself. So, you know, it's sure. Formal education is great, you know, but there's so much that you can learn in life and through books and through travel and, you know, so anyways, I'm grateful. Yeah. I want to get your thoughts on this. I've been looking at like the dichotomy between the predictions of Orwell and the predictions of Huxley and like ultimately Orwell feared a totalitarian future. And what Huxley feared was that there'd be no need for a totalitarian future because we'd be so distracted with pleasure and with hedonism. And so this is a quote by Neil Postman. He says, what Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book for there will be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared that the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture. In 1984, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we desire will ruin us. Yeah. I mean, I think Huxley's way more spot on. I'm not to say that there isn't truth to elements of Orwell's, you know, views on the world and that he that were, I guess, delivered through his his work in 1984. But yeah, I tend to align more. I mean, like, for instance, there's so much information out there that's highlighting what's going on. There are people that are announcing what's going on, especially about the things that happened over the last four years. And yet people are just like, whatever, let's the next thing. What's the next, like, Netflix show I can watch? What's the next, like, pleasure I can go after? You know, people that kind of don't care. And like the attention span that doesn't really exist for them to dive deep and to observe and to read deeply and to look at both sides of an argument and to, you know, build a relationship with the truth. And yeah, I agree. Huxley was definitely way more spot on. I mean, our culture is incredibly trivial. Like, you know, there's the opportunities are more than right for people to exist, to understand the world, to understand reality, to discover truths. But like you mentioned, you know, Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. And just think about the social media culture, the tidbits that we see, you know, the dopamine hits that go on and on and on. Like, one week you can have the most profound impactful story and like everyone's talking about it. Then the next week there might be like a new meme or a new movie coming out or something happened with a celebrity. Then all of a sudden, like, it's forgotten within days. Yeah, you think about pleasure too and think about it from the standpoint of it feels good to be right or to think you're right. You know, to really sit with Oh, I could be wrong. That's a tricky place to be. And that's a very uncertain. It's not pleasurable at all. And so like, it's much easier to like, just jump on the bandwagon based on the social media algorithm or how you identify sociopolitically or religiously, culturally, and just be like, OK, cool. Wait, wait, wait. I'm part of this religion. I'm part of this culture. I'm part of this politics. What am I being told is the right way to believe about this specific issue that's being presented. OK, great. Check. Got it. I can regurgitate that onto the next thing. What am I doing tonight? Who am I hanging out with? What's going on with work? You know what I mean? It's like, it's not just like, hmm, well, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there is more to this story. Maybe I'm going to like put down the weed, put down the alcohol, put down the porn, put down my phone or the excessive scrolling on meaningless things and be curious enough to maybe read something or to sit with this thing inside of you where it goes, oh, man, like I believe this, but fuck, I could be wrong. I actually think I am wrong. Now what? It's, you know, it's rare individuals, you know, and I'm not sitting here saying I do this with every single issue, you know, like, you know, but it's been, I think, part of who I am over the last 15, 20 years that at least there's an openness and a curiosity to like, how do I know I'm right? Why do I believe what I believe? Where is this coming from? Who taught me this? Where did I get this information from? Did my dad say it once when I was like seven and now I just kind of regurgitate it? Did I learn it in school? Did my priest tell me? Did the one book I read say it? And then I didn't bother to read anything else. You know, does my group of friends believe this? Does the corporation I work for believe this? Like all these different ways, like the tribal mind hijacks your individual consciousness and your ability to maybe be more discerning and to be curious and to contemplate and to question. Like these are the things that an individual needs to do on this path of individuation and of truly becoming your own person and rising above the herd. Because the herd is, they're not asking themselves these questions. They're just going along to get along. Sure, there might be little moments, of course. I'm not saying everyone's a freaking robot. But as a core way of being, as a core belief system of like, hey, this is how I want to live. I want to be curious. I want to question. I'm not sure. I'm okay with being, with not knowing. I'm okay with uncertainty. Now that's the work right there. All you have to do is look at all these issues that get plastered on social media and on the media and seeing how people react and seeing how people behave, observing the people in your life, observing comment threads and social media. And the proof is right there where we are at as a culture. Addiction to certainty. It feels good. Again, back to pleasure. It feels good to be certain. Doesn't feel good to be uncertain. Yeah. Yeah. And like not to say that it's not important, but like the real fights isn't constantly raising awareness around how corrupt the world is and around the potential for totalitarianism, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Because kind of like what Neil Postman's talking about in this quote, it's like, it's not necessary for them to really put a boot on your neck. We've enslaved ourselves first. For the most part, we're not interested in true freedom. We're not interested in true responsibility. We're not interested in it truly as consciously as possible, meeting our values day in, day out and curating lives that are reflective of that. And so, I've said this for years now, but like the most powerful, most impactful work that any one of us can do is like living on purpose, is becoming who we were born to be. It's unlocking that unique seat of consciousness, bringing forth that creative potential from within us and curating it into matter, into something that's real and something that's impactful, into something that's valuable and feeds not only value to the society, but also is able to return value to oneself in a way that enrichens one's life. And so like, you want freedom? I mean, that's the work. [Speaker 3] (53:41 - 53:41) Mm-hmm. [Speaker 1] (53:42 - 1:10:09) Yeah. And having purpose, true purpose and acting that purpose is what keeps a lot of this other like the superficial need, the superficial need for pleasure and short-term gratification at bay. Yeah. You know, because I find myself when there's maybe a little extra time or leisure time, I'm not saying you can't have leisure. You should be okay with being able to do nothing and be okay. But I find those times where I'm not feeling as on purpose is when those old patterns want to creep in. Those old voices are coming in, you know, old behaviors are wanting to peek through. And, you know, it's just a reminder to be like, hey, well, what am I committed to? You know, what am I truly committed to and what do I want to create and bring into this world? Because when you're not living on purpose and you're not committed, you know, these more quote unquote, again, addictive tendencies, they can creep in and they can kind of take hold of your psyche. And so, again, purpose, purpose, purpose, you know, do you know what you truly value? Do you know who you are? Do you know why you're here? Do you know what you want to bring into the world? Are you lit up by the things that you're engaging in? Yeah. What's your North Star? Like what's guiding you? Where are you heading? What's motivating the direction in which you move? You know, I feel so many people will just feel lost in psychological wilderness for years and years and years. And this is why it's so important for us to have an objective. You know, it can be mutable, it can shift. But for you to have an aim, a North Star to move towards, you know, how else do you orient yourself in the world? How else do you orient yourself in reality without that? Yeah. And if you don't have it, the world will give it to you and we can or society will give it to you and you know what they're presenting to you. Again, this goes back to Huxley. Huxley predicted, you know, around every corner is an opportunity to numb yourself from reality, to distract yourself from reality, to keep the feel good chemicals coming and coming and coming. Like this takes heroism, being in this world, seeing what's around you, seeing what's in the media and media has such an impact on one's person's thinking and their psyche and their behavior and like witnessing all that and then going, no, this isn't what I want. Because in a lot of ways, it's the quote unquote easy way, you know, okay, cool. I'm just going to allow myself to go with the flow of how society is shifting and changing. Like, do you really have convictions about who you are and what you want? Truly you, outside of how you're being programmed and conditioned. Yeah. It's, man, it's a trip to be alive. It is a trip to be alive, man. And, you know, especially right now. Yeah. Absolutely. It's the drippiest time ever. You know, like I wonder if every culture, like every culture, obviously, like every generation has their version, but I don't know. But right now is very unique, you know, with things that are happening from a technological standpoint, AI, social media, what's happening like socio-politically, there just seems to be so many different established ways of being that are slowly crumbling. I mean, we are the last generation that experienced the pre-internet age and we're the first generation to experience artificial intelligence. Like that is a pretty fucking unique time to be alive. It's very interesting. Oh, man. Yeah. And I mean, I think like the most common, like underlying fallacy is that life is meant to be pleasurable. Like that's, you know, life can be pleasurable, but it's not all pleasurable. It's not constant pleasure. It's not constant joy. You know, it's not constant pain-free, numb-out bliss. And for many people, this is such a deeply rooted psychological attitude, even hearkening back to religion, you know, that things were meant to be a paradise. You know, if only Adam didn't, you know, if only Eve didn't pluck that fruit and eat it, then we'd be living in this paradisiacal, pain-free, demonic-free, evil-free reality. Like to me that it's so delusional and it really impacts, you know, even the way that we view and see the world now, thinking that something's inherently, drastically wrong and incorrect. But the reality is like evil exists, challenges exists, polarities exist in every single context in nature. There's days that feel good, there's days that don't feel so good. There's days where you're going to feel lit up, on purpose, motivated, full of energy, enlivened. There's days that are going to feel like, I don't know how the hell I felt like that just recently. Yeah. And again, like as human beings, you could say it's our nature to like want to go towards pleasure and move away from pain. But the question again is what pleasure should I be staying away from and what pain should I be welcoming in and sitting with? Yeah. And there's the dilemma of being an individual and being on this journey and being on this personal development journey. It's like, okay, like this thing that makes me feel good, is it ultimately serving the purpose that I have for myself and my life? Like, is it truly a value that I want to live by? And moving away from this pain, is this ultimately helping me? You know, like let's say there's a breakup, let's say there's a death in the family, let's say you lose your job or whatever, anything that can cause pain, like how do you face that situation? You know, do you face it head on? Do you distract it away? You know what I mean? Yeah, bro. Everyone has to look in the mirror and ask themselves this question. Yeah. Because, you know, there are many that just can't sit with discomfort. Yeah. And like, the thing is like, just as the, you know, the pleasure and the comfort and the convenience and the feel good is temporary and finite, like so is the discomfort, so is the pain, so is the grief. But we get caught up believing that, you know, if we face it, if we enter it, if we welcome it, then it's going to live forever and be with us forever and, you know, filter our reality forever. But it also ends. Yeah, it's not, you're not going to be crying 24-7 for the rest of your life, you know, that doesn't, the body on some level is moving towards equilibrium always. Yeah. The sadness needs to result, you know, it needs the proper container. It needs, you know, the proper psychological awareness for it to be, you know, felt and process properly over the timing that it needs to be. And like, this is one of the things that I'm so, you know, encouraged by Alyssa with. It's like the grief of the loss of our child, I felt was equivalent to how long she held the child for until it was still naturally born in its own timing and in nature's timing. And so often when a miscarriage occurs, like, it's like, oh, you got to get it out straight away. Like, especially for women that, you know, find out while it's still in utero, like, oh, it can go septic and get infected, you know, needs to be vacuumed out, needs to be all these things, which really is just the material way of bypassing the emotional side of things that needs to be processed as well. Not to mention the, you know, the consequences and the rollercoaster effects of intervention. But like, the body knows and the body is capable. It's capable of holding grief, holding sadness. It's capable of processing it. It's capable of dealing with it. And so, how can we more so lean in and trust that process to unfold in the way that it needs to process and whatever the timing is? Well said, man. Yeah. It's also, I was thinking about it. It's like, your dad passed, I think, like two days after the February full moon. Alyssa, you know, gave birth to our child, you know, which had passed two days, like, after the January full moon. It got me thinking like on an esoteric level as you know, what the relationship is to those kinds of experiences around that time too. Not that you have the answers, just wondering. Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, this is interesting too, because if you, let's say you were to do some kind of study, you know, on the types of deaths, you know, that occur and when they occur, you know, and would there be more of a higher number that happened, you know, right around the full moon or right after the full moon? Yeah. It'd be interesting to think about, but... Life goes on, bro. Life, the thing, life goes on. These intense experiences happen, happen, we grapple with them. And yet, reality doesn't stop. Yet, the responsibilities don't stop. Yet, somehow, in some way, we just have to discover, you know, the bandwidth to continue to, you know, meet our needs, meet the needs of those, you know, that we've decided to care for and be responsible for. And yet, also, you know, as men, find our own time to process appropriately. And, you know, every time that I think there's no more bandwidth, there's nothing left, you know, somehow, there's an expansion that occurs and there's more to hold. And, you know, maybe that's part of the journey as well. I mean, probably more so particularly for men is, you know... Yeah, I think about this experience too. And it's like, you know, being able to know myself to the degree that I do, it's like, yeah, sure, I was extremely sad and this impacted me a lot. And at the same time, like, it was important for me to be a rock for my mother, you know, and like to be there for her and not to just be like this like blabbering mess the whole time, you know, like I can find my time. I can go out into the woods with, you know, my close male friends and have like a ritual or find my moments, you know, to grieve, you know, but there's a time and a place and this is where discernment comes in. This is where, you know, understanding your own instrument as a human being and being like, what's the situation? What's called for? You know, I look at things historically too. And, you know, the role of the mask and the role of the man, like, again, it's not about shutting off and repressing, you know, it wasn't like, but it was like, where is the where's that balance? Where is that middle point? You know, don't go, don't get thrown off one way or the other where you're completely repressing or you're like completely vulnerable and you can't function. I mean, I found out this news and it's like, I had to get on a plane. I had to go home. I had to be with my mom. I'd have an appointment with the funeral home with my brother. There are things that need to be done. My mom didn't do, we handled every single thing of this. And I do want to give a shout out to Vandermeer Funeral Home in Wayne, New Jersey. They did an incredible job with the viewing, obviously with my father being Greek Orthodox, we followed more traditional or more conventional with viewing and a funeral and burial. And they did an incredible job. Like, you know, and like, and my dad was honored and I'm grateful to them. Like the whole Sunday, Monday, everything was great. So I just, I'm grateful for that. But again, like we had to do things we couldn't do. My brother and I couldn't just sit there like, oh, what was us? We lost our dad. Like, sure. We have our moments and, and it is sad. And, you know, we grieved and things needed to be handled. And our mom was our number one priority and focus, you know, they were about to celebrate their 50 year anniversary, a wedding anniversary in October, you know? So it's like the, even that alone, like, wow, like being married for that long, being with one person like 24 seven, like, sure. Yeah. I lost, I lost a father. My mother lost her, her husband, her companion or her friend, her someone that she's been with for so long, you know, like I can only imagine what she's going through. So, you know, again, like. I think it's about being like a conscious container, like being able to, you know, have a little bit of conscious control over, you know, when and where, you know, we, we decide to release and having, you know, circumstantial awareness of what's required in each situation and with whom. Yeah. I agree. And this is where the work lies. This is where like, you know, what is the capacity of your nervous system? How well do you know yourself? You know, how can you gauge like what the circumstance or the environment or the relationship needs? And that's a lifelong journey. But yeah, man, like again, this, this all brings me back to this thing, like life, it ends. It ends. I'm not going to be here one day. You're not going to be here one day. What are you fucking doing with it? Like, if you're not content, if you're not happy, if you're not fulfilled, what are you waiting for? Yeah. Don't just, don't just stay in the rut. Don't just stay, you know, in subdued acceptance of what is, if it's not really what's for you, that's not, it's not worth it. You have this one finite experience. You need to cultivate that fire. You need to learn how to harness it. You need to give yourself profound moments of inspiration, of achievement, of pride in being who you are and in doing what you alone can uniquely do. So many dreams like I see fallen by the wayside, you know, from people's unwillingness to break the status quo or to challenge, you know, the, the fake harmony or the fake peace that people think they live with and exist with. I was just thinking about it. Like my mom was married at 16. I think this is their 44th anniversary to see. Your mom was married at 16? Dad was 19. Mom was 16. That's wild. That's wild. Shit. My dad, they got married in 1974. So, my dad was 44 and my mom was 32. Yeah. I feel like my parents got married in, I think it was 81 or 82 or something. Oh, 31. They're 13 years difference. [Speaker 2] (1:10:09 - 1:10:09) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:10:10 - 1:15:49) That's wild. That's amazing, man. 44 years. They're gonna. That's cool. Yeah. Oh, man. Like we all have our unique set of, you know, karmic predicaments and, you know, the, the, the, the base ground, the base fertile soil, which, you know, gives us a certain direction and certain leanings and certain tendencies. And ultimately, you know, that's our, our chemical material to go and make manifest what it is that we're meant to in this life. And, you know, while I don't think any of us can say that we were raised perfectly, you know, raised perfectly holistically and perfectly safe and secure and all the rest of it, you know, I mean, I guess for, you know, I can only speak for myself, like there's lots to be grateful for in the parents that I have and in, you know, the way that I was raised and, you know, in, I guess, even just the commitments of the relationship, I guess that was, that was displayed. And I think, you know, being able to, without repressing, without denying, I'm not saying deny the shit, I'm not saying deny the, the, the mishaps or the faults or whatever, but I mean, gratitude is a fucking superpower, man. You know, find like, you can, you can go on this journey of accumulating and shifting and learning forever, and you may forever feel unfulfilled. But I think cultivating like just a practice of gratitude for how things have evolved, for how you actually have grown, for what currently is in front of you and with you, for the relationships that are valuable that you do have and, you know, that's what keeps me going anyway. Well, I think being grateful and acknowledging what you're grateful for is just more empowering, you know, it just feels more empowering than like the constant blame game or like wishing the past were different than it was. Like how much energy is given to, and I'll say wasted towards wishing the past were different. You could acknowledge it, acknowledge the past and accept it. And then now what, you know, what do you do with that? Where do you go from here? You know, I probably 100% of things weren't bad, you know, there's probably some good, there's probably some beauty, some love that you can, you know, start shifting your consciousness towards appreciating that and going, okay, like you said, the karmic predicaments, like these are the cards that I've been dealt, you know, how am I going to play my hand? You know, sure, people have had it rougher than others, don't get me wrong, you know, again, you know, I'm grateful for the parents that I had, you know, was my childhood perfect? No, it wasn't, but I'm grateful my parents, you know, they're lovely humans. And there's things that like, you know, drove me crazy about them, you know, so, but at the end of the day, it's like, you have the life you have, again, like we talked about this compare and contrast game, you can sit there and go, well, I had it worse than that person and they had it better and well, but I wish I had their parents or I wish I had their life and it's like, again, wasted fucking energy. There's something that is completely out of your control. So, where are you putting your focus? Where are you putting your energy now and going, hey, listen, this is my life, this is the shit that I went through, like, what do I got to do about it? How can I support myself? How can I heal? How can I use all that stuff that I dealt with in that pain to motivate me to continue to redeem myself and to grow and to evolve and to give my gifts in the world based on that? That helps carve you into the person you are, you know? Like, I think a person who like, everything was great and perfect easy from day one, like there's a certain kind of person, but the people who have faced ridiculous amounts of challenges and have grown and moved beyond that and accepted it and evolved and healed, like what they have to offer is so, so, it's pretty incredible and amazing. And so, it's like, you know, we've all experienced trauma, we've all experienced pain, you know, what do we do with it? You know, how we challenge the status quos of our families and of society and move beyond that and become an individual and live the life that we know is our life, is meant for us, not the life that was projected onto us by our parents primarily. Yeah. Sure, take the good, but you know, like sometimes it's like, there's a lot of control that exists there where parents want to control their children. Yeah. Or teachers want to control their students. And for many, that fear of breaking that mold exists like well into fucking adulthood, you know? Some people live to 80 and then die and still carry that fear of having challenged the preconceived projections that their parents left. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then what are you left with when the parents are gone, you know? Like, oh, wow, they're not here. Maybe they're probably still there as a part of your psyche, but it's like, I lived my life based on the projections and the pressure of what my parents, relatives, et cetera, wanted for me. But I, if you, deep down, maybe like, I didn't want this. [Speaker 3] (1:15:49 - 1:15:49) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:15:50 - 1:19:49) You know, so it's like, listen to that voice. It's there. Yeah. It's knocking on the door of your consciousness on a, probably a regular basis. Yeah. What is it saying? Yeah. What's the next thing you need to do? What does it feel like? If it's scary, what does it feel like in your body? What are you noticing coming up? All right. We don't want to make this just a cerebral process. Like, as we contemplate these things and the direction of our lives and the things that we've been through and the things that we want, what is going on within you deeply, build a more intimate relationship to your body, to your nervous system. This is why we're such huge proponents of the work. This is why I've spent time studying this. Obviously, for those of you listening, you know, Sophie and her area of expertise. We've had Irene Lyon on the podcast a few times. Like, this stuff is foundational work, in my opinion. Yeah. That can help you along the way as you continue on your hero's journey and as you continue on the individuation process. Well said, man. Yeah. Take that leap, build the psychological fortitude. Again, I think of the full card in the tarot, stepping into the unknown, walking off that ledge. That's the authentic path. That's where potential lives. That's where possibility lives. And I truly believe anyone that walks and chooses to walk their authentic path is more than supported in that path unfolding into fruition the way it's meant to. Thanks for listening, y'all. I guess in closing, I'd like to mention that doors to our eight-week group coaching program, Rise Above the Herd. This is the ninth round and now open. Crazy to think that we've operated this thing now nine times over the course of nearly two years, close to 100 graduates. And I'm just really proud of this program. I'm proud of the way it continues to evolve and grow and how holistic it is, you know, with the nervous system piece, with the building self-esteem, with the rising above the herd, breaking free from crowd ideology, from religious ideology, from new age dogma. The unique tools, insights and actions that are on offer through this program, I don't think, you know, can really be replicated or found in many places. So if you're down for some assistance, if you'd like some guidance in terms of answering the call of your highest, most whole potential, then we'd love to see you inside. You can head to riseabovetheherd.co or you can hit the link in the show notes. Our preference is always to hold intimate containers. I think the power of the relationships of each of the cohorts is such a huge driver of the growth that each individual experiences. So we never take more than 20 students in any cohort. And that group bond is something which is awesome to witness as well. I'm going to link, for those interested also, my wife Alyssa's sub stack in the show notes. She's written some articles about her experience with the loss of our baby and her carrying that, you know, for close to three months since finding out. We'll put in also your dad's obituary for those that want to learn more about your asthma's father and his story. And yeah, appreciate you guys. Thanks for listening. Thanks for being here. Yeah. Big hugs, everyone. Thank you. Take care.