Jesse Elder The Action Philosopher

Speaker A 00:00:02.800 - 00:00:30.110 Jesse elder is a 100% unschooled Austin native, former MMA fighter, retired martial arts empire builder, action philosopher, and strategic advisor to individuals and companies to prepare for the coming authenticity apocalypse. Based in Austin, where he's currently preparing for partnership, fatherhood and contributing to raising a new generation of humans like the world has never seen. Jesse, welcome to Here for the Truth, man. Speaker B 00:00:30.910 - 00:00:33.790 I should have written. Jesse likes to write about himself in the third person. Speaker C 00:00:34.830 - 00:00:36.790 That's a, that's a great bio. I liked it. Speaker A 00:00:36.790 - 00:00:38.750 This is a great bio for sure. Speaker B 00:00:38.830 - 00:00:44.030 It's all accurate. It's just, it's just, you know, odd to hear it sometimes. It's like, wait, I guess so. Speaker A 00:00:44.350 - 00:01:21.980 I hear you, man. I hear. Jesse and I had the pleasure of connecting briefly when I was in Austin recording the Way Forward podcast with our good friend Ali Exec. We got to touch base a little bit and just had the definite, immediate, intuitive hit that he'd be a great fit for us here. Jesse, one way we always like to dive in with first time guests is we really want to unpack your personal hero's journey, like your life story. We want to dive in, I want to uncover all the major catalysts, the rites of passage that really led into the evolution of what we're seeing now in terms of Jesse Elder. So, like, wherever you feel called to start with that story, man, that's a. Speaker B 00:01:21.980 - 00:01:49.700 That'S a heck of a setup. Yeah, it's great to be here and to see you guys and for everybody else that's, that's connected through this absolute miracle of technology. I mean, you know, I mean, I'm sitting under this cedar tree somewhere in Austin with a piece of glass and metal and plastic in my hands and getting to talk to people like all over the world. If we haven't figured out that we've already won life yet, like, I don't know what's going to help. You know, it's like we've won. We won. Speaker C 00:01:49.700 - 00:02:12.440 Like, I love your perspective around that. And we talk about that often in the podcast. It's like, it's so easy to focus on like evil technology and yet, like, what a freaking miracle. And how cool is it that we, so many of our friends that we would call deep friend, dear friends in our life now, like, we met them because of technology, because of that piece of glass. Right, right. Speaker B 00:02:12.440 - 00:02:57.320 So it's all about intention, man. Well, the, the, I love the premise because, like, we're all in a hero's journey, you know, and, and I think different parts of our life can be at different parts in the journey, you know, you might be completely victorious in one part of your life. Very recently in another one, you might just be, like, fighting the level boss of level bosses. And so I think it's a little bit simplistic to say, you know, there's a singular hero's journey. So I think there's. It's more like threads in a. In a. In a tapestry. But, man, I. If. If. If the soul chooses to come to this planet, I chose. Can we curse on the show or not? Yeah, dude, yeah, yeah, okay, I figured, I figured. But also, I'm sure the truth, Jesse. Speaker A 00:02:58.280 - 00:02:58.840 Boom. Speaker B 00:03:01.320 - 00:05:48.730 So, dude, I got so lucky, I guess, when my soul chose to enter this planet. And it's like, first of all, we're gonna set it to easy level. You're gonna be a straight, white North American male with blue eyes. Okay, that'll make it easy. But then, dude, I was born to the most. The most epic parents. Like, when I was born, according to, you know, family lore, they both looked at me and they said, we feel like this kid's gonna know what he needs for himself more than we do, so we're gonna love him and stay out of his way. And they did that for my entire life. And I remember. I barely remember, but this is another family story. I was like 2, 3 years old, and we were on the beach somewhere, and, you know, I was the first of five, so there wasn't anybody with me yet. No, no siblings. And I just huddle on down to the. To the water. And they had a pivotal conversation. And they looked at each other and they said, okay, well, you know, should we intervene? Because he's getting too close to the water. He's getting a little far away from this little, you know, picnic blanket, or should we, you know, stick to our principles and let him do his thing? And they both decided then and there not to interfere, Neither to encourage nor to protect. And so again, I was a baby, man. I was still learning how to use this body. So I take. I take my parents word for it, but apparently I walked, like, down the shoreline. And every so often I would stop and I would look, and they would just be there watching me, but not waving, not you can do it, not be careful, not come back, none of that shit. They were just present and their attention was on me, but it was. It was a non directional attention. And apparently I walked almost out of sight until I satisfied whatever curiosity or maybe I just got hungry or something, and I turned around and I walked back. And they greeted me like, no big deal. Like, hey. And they, you know, give me a hug, and, you know, do you want a snack? And that became the basis for my entire life. Wow. For, you know, not a lot of love and a lot of. A lot of positive support, but zero guidance, zero and zero restrictions. And it built an incredibly high level of responsibility, high trust, high communication childhood. So that by the time I was 15 years old, I was teaching martial arts. By the time I was 17, I moved out. I was teaching full time, and I started fighting. And then When I was 23, I opened my first school and ended up opening eight more or eight schools, built a consulting business. And, dude, I sold all that in 2012, and now I'm still doing the same thing. Like, I'm still that kid on the beach going, like, what's out here? Speaker C 00:05:49.050 - 00:05:51.690 Where'd you grow up? Did I miss that? I don't know if I missed that. Speaker B 00:05:52.490 - 00:06:16.170 I don't think I've grown up yet. I'm getting there. But I'm born in Austin, grew up in Austin, San Antonio, the Valley for a couple of years, South Texas. And since then, I mean, I've been to 53 countries and have. Have set foot in. In some. Some really, really radical places. But Austin is. Is home and I think will be for. For the duration. Speaker A 00:06:16.490 - 00:06:17.130 Amazing. Speaker B 00:06:17.850 - 00:06:18.410 Hey, from. Speaker A 00:06:18.410 - 00:06:23.130 From what I understand, your father or your parents were teachers, yet you were in school, right? Speaker B 00:06:23.690 - 00:06:29.940 My dad, ironically, was a school teacher, like a Texas state school teacher. Taught public school, seventh and eighth grade math and Spanish. Speaker A 00:06:30.580 - 00:06:31.060 Wow. Speaker C 00:06:31.300 - 00:06:43.460 What was it in them that were like, especially. I mean, again, I don't know how old you are, but you're definitely old enough where, like, the idea of unschooling and homeschooling is much more rare. At that time when you were a child, you. Speaker B 00:06:43.460 - 00:09:35.080 You nailed it. At that time, like, 70s and 80s, there was 13,000American kids that were homeschooled. 13,000. And now there's like, you know, we'll have that many on a live stream, you know, and it's like, not kids, but, like 13,000 humans. Now there's like 3.2 million kids in America. That's just America. My parents were the perfect match for what our family ended up becoming. You know, my dad was like black sheep of the family. His dad had had both his. His family. My grandparents were the richest people I knew growing up. Later, you know, I started to make some money. I met people, had a lot of money. I was like, oh, they weren't that rich. They were just upper middle class. But to Me, they were like, you know, tons of money. But my dad just kind of rejected the whole thing. You know, he, He. I'm sure experienced his share of, you know, trauma and, and, and maybe neglect or abuse. He never talked about it, but he decided that he was just going to kind of take an opposite approach. So he graduated Catholic University in, in Connecticut in the 60s and joined the Peace Corps and then was in Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Guatemala, El Salvador. Fell in love with Latin culture. And when his time in the Peace Corps was up, they said, you know, we'll buy you a ticket back to New Haven, Connecticut, or we'll just give you the. The cash. And he said, I'll take the cash. So they gave him like, you know, 150 bucks. And he bought a motorcycle and drove the motorcycle from Panama City back to New Haven, Connecticut. Took him three months. Wow. Like, that's my dad. And it's. I mean, I could tell hundreds of stories like that, including from when we were growing up. And then my mom was going to nursing school. She grew up in, in Long island in New York, was going to nursing school. And her roommate said, I think you should meet my brother. And that was my dad's sister. And my mom said, the moment I met him, I knew. And she said, I. And a couple of years ago, we were talking about purpose and some of the men's work that I was doing, you know, that I was facilitating. And she said, I'm really glad you're talking about purpose. And I realized, like, I never asked my mom what her life's purpose was or what she thought it was. So I asked her. I'm like, well, you know, have you known your per. I mean, I know you know, your purpose, but, like, what is it? And she just said, I've always known that there are three purposes that I have in this life, and one is to teach people about death and dying. And she worked in hospice for, for years and to. To raise the. The best possible humans that we could and to love and support Jack Elder. And she said that she's always known that that was. That was her purpose. And I said, when did you know your purpose was to support dad? And she just smiled. She said, the moment I saw him. Speaker A 00:09:37.160 - 00:09:37.560 Good. Speaker B 00:09:37.720 - 00:09:40.690 So, yeah, man. Speaker A 00:09:41.330 - 00:10:13.010 Hey, can you, like, how did this self directed learning approach kind of evolve more for you in your personal experience? Like, you know, obviously we're so stringent with thinking. We must impose an education and like, by a child following their interests, following their natural innate curiosities and passions, that's like Kind of a pipe dream. But how did that unfold for you? Like, when did you become like more viscerally aware of my passions? And then, oh, this is the book I want to read. Like, what are some of those connecting dots, man? Speaker B 00:10:13.010 - 00:11:00.200 That's a good question. I don't think I thought about it until just now. But what came up as you were saying that is that like I. Everybody's born with it. Like every single human being is born with. Starts pretty early in life to get covered and guided and directed and all this external stuff. And I just never had that. So I don't, and I don't ever remember a time in my life where I wasn't interested in something and that I wasn't able to take, you know, pretty significant steps towards satisfying that curiosity. So like I didn't talk for like four years. You know, my first four years I was mute and my parents are like, yeah, he'll talk if he's got something to say. And then my first words were hand me my book, please. So. Dude. Speaker C 00:11:00.360 - 00:11:01.760 So gangster dude. Speaker B 00:11:01.760 - 00:11:08.000 Well, or just, I don't know, it's like. But whatever, you know, it's like, were. Speaker C 00:11:08.000 - 00:11:09.600 You the first four years of your life? Speaker B 00:11:09.600 - 00:12:21.500 And then I'm totally. Now I'm making up for it, believe me, Believe me. But no, it's just that, that and I mean retarded in the, in the literal sense of the word, you know, held back, not, not advanced souls that. Born into special bodies to teach us unconditional love. But yeah, no, I, I just, I, I just remember being, being probably four or five and I was in the car with my mom and I'm seeing these, you know, signs on these buildings and I know they mean something, but I just don't know what they mean. So I started, I asked my mom, I'm like, what does that mean? What does that, what does that mean? And she said, oh, well, that those are words and that says this and I just remember I want to learn words. And so she would just, you know, this is A and this is B and D and it doesn't take long, man. The human brain, especially a child's brain, it takes less than 100 hours of supported study, self guided study for a child to become completely proficient in literacy, math and writing, like reading, writing and arithmetic. It takes a hundred hours. All the rest of it is controlled. Speaker C 00:12:21.810 - 00:12:46.930 Yeah, I'm still, I'm still curious. Like your mom was a nurse, your dad was in the public school system. Like what was it in them? Like I'm still just like, that they're like, yeah, no, I'm not gonna, like, send my kid to the thing that I've been doing for the last 30, 40 years. And, like, for them to even have that awareness when you're one by the beach, like, that just seems foreign. I mean, it's a little bit more understanding now, but, like, 40 plus years ago. Speaker B 00:12:47.250 - 00:13:25.600 Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, 50. 50 years ago. I've. I've asked them this extensively and I've. And I've tried to, you know, get past the love that a parent has for their child, but they, They've both said the same thing, and I feel a little awkward saying it because it's like, I'm at peace with it, but it's not something I talk about very much. You guys are really good at this. They, they. They give. It doesn't even say right what I'm about to say. It doesn't feel complete to me, but in their words, they said it was you. Speaker A 00:13:26.400 - 00:13:26.800 Wow. Speaker B 00:13:26.800 - 00:13:30.560 When we, when we saw you, we just knew that that's what we were supposed to do. Speaker C 00:13:32.400 - 00:13:37.440 Talk about paying attention and understanding, intuiting and super tapped in and trusting and. Speaker B 00:13:37.760 - 00:13:38.320 Yeah. Speaker A 00:13:38.400 - 00:13:42.000 And was this, Was this a model that they followed through with your siblings? Speaker B 00:13:42.700 - 00:14:39.790 For the most part, there was. I had three brothers and a sister. They came, you know, were born after I was. We're all very, very close. And they had, for the. Especially their early years, the same thing. My parents actually ended up getting separated, and then they divorced about 30, 31, 32 years ago. And so. But even that, man, they did the divorce so cleanly. Like, if there was fighting, arguing, we never saw it. Like, I've literally never seen my parents fight, argue, talk bad about one another. They. They handled all that on their own. We could tell that something was going on. And then when, when they divorced, my mom got a place that was like two blocks away, so we just. Now we had two houses. Like, it was, it was. It was remarkably healthy. Yeah. Speaker C 00:14:40.190 - 00:14:43.390 Are you super tight with your siblings? Speaker B 00:14:43.710 - 00:15:07.440 Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. And we're so different, man. I mean, as you can imagine, you know, everybody's doing something that's their passion or that's their interest, and they're just continuing to grow and learn. And my sister just had their first child, so now everybody in the family's got kids except this guy. I'm a late bloomer, so. But it's awesome, man. I. I love him so much. Speaker C 00:15:07.840 - 00:15:10.800 My dad was. My dad was 50 when I was born, man, so. Speaker B 00:15:11.120 - 00:15:14.320 All right, good. Well, there's a good reference point. Yeah. Speaker A 00:15:14.640 - 00:15:19.280 All right, so 2012 comes. You sell your little martial arts empire. Speaker B 00:15:19.600 - 00:15:19.960 Where. Speaker A 00:15:19.960 - 00:15:22.640 Where does life take you from here? What's happening in that period? Speaker B 00:15:23.200 - 00:16:27.640 Yeah, that. That was. Yeah, 2012. I sold the. The schools to. To a business partner. And. And that's kind of a. It's a funny little manifestation story because I, like, I never. I didn't build it to sell. I just knew that. That it fulfilled its purpose in. In my life, and I'd fulfilled my purpose with it. So I just wrote down on an index card, you know, that I have successfully sold the schools for the highest good of all involved. And I wrote down the number, and I just looked at that every day for a couple weeks. And then my business partner was in town. We were going to plan out this training. And it ended up turning to the conversation about selling, and he was, like, not totally expecting it. Not total surprise, but didn't think it would happen. Very intense. And started writing out all the values of all the schools and how much he would pay. And it was like a hardcore negotiation from his end. And I'm just sitting there, and he certainly totals a whole number. And he pushes the, you know, the binder across the. The table at me, and I look and I'm like. I had to try so hard not to laugh because it was the exact number that I written down with, like, zero negotiation. Speaker C 00:16:27.720 - 00:16:29.400 It was like, you're like, I'll take it. Speaker B 00:16:29.480 - 00:22:03.280 Yeah, God. God is my agent. I was like, well, okay, that's the best you can do. But it was good. We parted ways very amicably, remained close, and then I thought I would have all this time to figure out the next thing. I'd had a couple of clients, strategic advisory and consulting clients on marketing, on offer creation, sales, But a lot around mindset, because the way that I would approach mindset is the same way that I would approach anything. It's like, you already, like, you're fine. Like, nothing's wrong with you. You just, you know, you use your. Not you, you. But, you know, people use their language and they use old stories, and it's all this unconscious re. Just like reprocessing the same thing again and again. And I learned from fighting that you don't have time when you're in the zone. You don't have time to think about the kick that you received in the first round. It's like, you got to get so present. That's where a lot of my understanding about time and about future and memory and imagination and all of that came out from those fighting days. So I've got a couple of clients now that I'm coaching. Sold my business, and I figure I've got this Runway. Well, I. Along the way, I fell in love. And I got married when I was 27 years old. And it was first relationship that I was ever in, and it was awesome. And she had three kids already. She was five years older. So it was instant family. And, man, I was so happy. It was so awesome. And we were together for 12 years. We were married for 10, about seven. Eight of those years were really good. The last couple of years were not good for either one of us or for anybody. So we ended up parting ways and I filed for divorce in early 2013. So this is about six months after I sold my schools. And very, very willingly at that time, agreed to a settlement that would basically be about 80% of the sale of the business. So I figured I had this long Runway of money to kind of live off of and invest and whatever, and now I didn't. So 2013 was a tremendous year of reinvention of accelerated thought to thing and following the impulse. And I realized that, you know, I can stress out because I don't know how I'm going to pay, you know, pay my bills or, like, what's the worst that can happen? Like, literally, it's the worst that can happen. Worst that can happen is I go back, you know, and move back in with my dad or my mom, you know, which I was homeschooled. So I guess technically that's like going back for your master's, you know, go back and get my master's in homeschool. But I was like, oh, so that's the worst. That's literally the worst that could happen. I get to hang out with my dad. Okay, that's not terrible. And I just. I just let go of the fear of. And the uncertainty of not knowing how it's going to happen and started getting all these insights from the future. And it was all a combination of things. It was like the best of what I had experienced with none of the bullshit that I'd experienced either in my business or in relationships or just life in general. And I committed to live a. A life that was like, you know, a mix of James Bond and. And Ferris Bueller. You know, it's just like, like, do no harm, take no. Like, let's, let's go. And business Was okay in 2013. Didn't have to move back in with my dad, but at 10x the next year and and just kept going up from there for. For many years. Because I not discovered, but I discovered for myself, the real keys to value creation. And it's not just language. Language is the wrapping paper that we put around the essence of what we're sharing. And what we're sharing really is us. And it's our authenticity and our full ownership of ourselves, with no guilt, no shame, and as little fear as necessary. Because those are really the only enemies that human beings have. Shame and guilt and fear, once you get rid of that, like, love yourself unconditionally, unapologetically, accept yourself unconditionally, unapologetically, and appreciate yourself unconditionally, unapologetically, extend not even just forgiveness, because that implies blame to begin with, but just say, like, I'm living a human life, man, and I'm gonna do things that I'm gonna look back later and go, I could have done that differently. But why is. There doesn't need to be any shame or guilt. And then when. When an individual becomes shame and guilt free, and even the fear that they experience is just like a little hint, like a little spice that just gets them excited about doing something, they can no longer trigger that same shame and guilt and fear in others. Which means people feel less shame, guilt, and fear when they're around someone who doesn't feel shame or guilt or fear. And then next thing you know, it's like, whoa. Like, I've. I've had hundreds of people tell me, like, I literally forgot to be depressed. Like, I just forgot to be broke. I forgot to be a douchebag. I forgot to be an. I forgot to be miserable. And it's like, yeah, you don't have to learn how to be yourself. You are yourself. You just practice not being yourself for so long that you think that that's who you are, but ain't so. Speaker C 00:22:04.640 - 00:22:09.920 Dude, I just love what you just said, man. I just. It just hit me straight to my core. Speaker B 00:22:10.160 - 00:22:10.920 Teamwork, man. Speaker C 00:22:10.920 - 00:22:13.080 That's how it is. Speaking our language too, man. Speaker B 00:22:13.080 - 00:22:13.490 I just. Speaker C 00:22:13.880 - 00:22:15.840 I love. I love the authenticity and the realness. Speaker A 00:22:15.840 - 00:22:23.240 And, dude, there's. There's a lot. There's a lot to unpack you, man. And you're speaking our language on a very high level, bro. For sure. Speaker B 00:22:23.400 - 00:22:23.880 Yeah. Speaker A 00:22:23.880 - 00:22:31.400 I want to backtrack a second. Like, you spent 10 to 12 years with three kids that weren't yours. Like, do you still have relationship to them? Speaker B 00:22:32.040 - 00:25:49.010 No, no. The. You know, my mental model of divorce was my parents. And I just very wrongly assumed that if when I got divorced and and divorced their mom that it would be very similar. You know, we'd still. We'd have two houses. I would still take the, you know, the youngest to school every day because she, you know, she was. She was. You know, the. The older ones were driving and stuff. But her blueprint for divorce was very different. And to be fully, fully transparent, I was. I was a douchebag. Like, there was never abuse. You know, it was never abusive. There's nothing weird, but I just was checked out. And, you know, I was so shut down, and I didn't have the relationship skills and the intimacy skills to process what was going on. And it ended up, you know, she had a ton of stuff that she actively said, I don't want to look at that. All childhood stuff. And I'm like, well, maybe might be useful. But it became clear that wasn't her path. And I'm on this crazy growth path, which I don't. It's not. One is better than the other. They're just different. She was very motivated by tradition and, you know, one of the kids to get good grades. And, you know, I'm. I wouldn't be totally surprised if she got vaccinated. Maybe she didn't. I don't know. But it was like she was more. More, you know, let's follow the rules, which I totally understand. And then. But then she's married to me, and I'm just like, well, who invented those rules? And where does it say those rules apply to me? Because I don't see my name on that sign, you know, and it's like, it was tough on her. And so when we. When we got divorced, it was really, really rough on her, and consequently, it was rough on the kids. And I texted them, you know, the day that I. That I filed and said, you guys know, this has nothing to do with you. You know, this is. This is between your mom and I, and this has been coming for a while, but I love you. I'm always going to be here for you. And, you know, I'll see you soon. And I didn't hear anything back from the boys. And then I got a text back from my stepdaughter, and it was understandably, you know, very angry. And she said some. Some things that were. That I took very literally. And it just. Dude, it was the worst shock of my life because I was unwilling. The real. The reality is I was unwilling to look at what was all the behavior that I had had leading up to that that would cause these kids to respond in that way. But in that moment, I just wasn't there. You know, I was so trying to survive and trying to focus and all this kind of stuff. Don't know what this divorce is going to cost, all this, you know, guy stuff. And I just. I didn't have the empathy or the compassion to. To relate to where they were at. And it. Dude, it closed my heart like Fort Knox. And I was like, okay, fine. I guess that's that. And so I never reached. Dude, it was months and months before I even attempted to reach out to them. And it was. It was. It was a. It was a gnarly, gnarly journey. Many things that I would have done differently in terms of communication. 0. That I would have done differently in terms of behavior around the choice. Yeah. Speaker C 00:25:49.330 - 00:26:09.570 Hey, I'm curious, Jesse, because you had said, like, oh, I had the relationship skills, I had issues had to deal with. But then also, you're the great, awesome, beautiful childhood. Like, where do you think your issues came from? You know, like, what was some of the patterning around mom, dad stuff that, like, you know, maybe didn't allow you to operate the best in partnership at that time? Speaker B 00:26:09.730 - 00:28:46.900 This is brilliant, man. I've literally never talked about this. And partly because nobody's asked it the way you just did, and partly because I just. It just hasn't been time. Modeling my parents for sure, like, that. That's encoded, and it still is. Like, when the time comes and I have a family, like, there are way more things that I'm going to model from my parents than things that I won't model. I mean, it's total net positive. But here's. This is the. This is the. This is the truth that, you know, I hit puberty, and whether it makes a difference or not, I don't know. Mushrooms told me one time, it really makes a difference. But I'm Scorpio. Like, I'm a Scorpio as it gets. And so you and I. There we are. Well, the mushrooms are like, look, you're, like, super sexual. Don't deny it. You know, just. Just, you know, be smart with it. That came much later in life. But I hit puberty, and I'm just like. But I'm also super shy. I talked to. It wasn't because of homeschooling. I could talk to anybody. I just felt more comfortable talking to adults. I felt more comfortable talking to my parents, friends. I felt more comfortable talking to my homeschooled friends. And so it was just. I just didn't have a lot in common with other kids who were my age that hadn't had a similar experience and like I felt connected, like we always had fun, but I would, I ended up feeling and building up the story in my mind that like, I need to be better, I need to be cooler. You know, typical teenage stuff, right. But I also started teaching when I was, when I was 15. And so I had all this responsibility from a very early age of teaching these classes with like adults. And so I have that level of, you know, status and power and responsibility. And then in my personal life, like me personally, I discovered with a buddy of mine and this is one of those like, haha, that's funny. It's like, you know, funny teenage story. I didn't realize for years how badly it fucked me up. But we were running around to some trail in South Texas, middle of the day, a couple of homeschooled feral kids wind up finding a stash of porn magazines. Like literally like a, like a stack like this big. And we're 12 and we're like, you know, it was like we discovered Treasure and we divided it up and it was like Playboy and Penthouse and a couple of hustlers. I was like, that's a lot. Speaker C 00:28:47.140 - 00:28:48.620 Hustlers. Hardcore at that age. Speaker B 00:28:48.620 - 00:30:01.390 Yeah, that was a lot. That was like, you know, peak porn, I guess at the time. Well, as far as I knew. So we divided it up, we tucked the magazines into our pants and like, you know, Michelin manned back to the, you know, back to his, his house. And I didn't realize it, but that was such a detour for me because next thing you know, I'm like hitting it like 12 times a day. And so my neurology got wired to this idealized zero effort instant gratification which now is widely known. But US12, I had no idea. So now this, this sort of divergence is occurring where I've got this, you know, public Persona and I'm teaching and I'm competing and I'm well liked and I'm funny and confident and all these things, but in my inner life. And I never had guilt around it. Like, I just didn't. It was just like, like would much rather have had that experience with a girl. So it's like sadness and disappointment and loneliness and frustration. But it was never guilty. Which I think is. Speaker A 00:30:01.550 - 00:30:04.310 Well, there was no religious programming for the guilt to come in. Speaker B 00:30:04.310 - 00:32:32.680 Zero religious programming, you know, I mean, it was like, you know, the body is natural. Your, your body is, you know, is, is. There's nothing wrong with it. Your body's perfect, your body heals. Itself. I mean, we were like, you know, homeopathic remedies and rarely ever went to the hospital. Hardly anybody got sick. So the body was never viewed as a bad thing. Sex was never viewed as a bad thing. I mean, I literally watched all four of my siblings enter this world. Like I watched all of them be born. But it was. It was just the convenience factor. And then the gap that was widening between my public confidence and my private self esteem was just wider and wider and wider. So that when I was teaching, I felt unstoppable. When I wasn't, I was super depressed. And so years later, I read the term Sunday Scaries. I was like, oh, that's what that. That was. Because Sunday was the day I didn't teach. And I was. I was a mess. So I went for my entire teenage life, most of my 20s. Never dated, never had a girlfriend. I would just lose myself in teaching and competing in training. And what was driving so much of that is someday I'll be successful enough to attract this woman of my dreams. And it wasn't even the idealized porn stuff. It was, you know, I'd had major crushes and, you know, deep love that also part of the pattern was they would be with somebody else, and so I'd get all heartbroken. But, man, I'm so like, if life is scripted, it's a perfect script because it taught me the actual source of love, which is not another human being, that love is a frequency. It is available to all of us. And when we are complete and whole within ourselves, then we surpass or we evolve beyond. We rise. Rise over the need to use other people to get what we want. Even if it's disguised as a benevolent social construct, we're still using them. And so, like, Stephen Covey talked about interdependence, you know, you got to be whole within yourself. And I don't know if I would have. I'm not saying I am, but all those early lessons around love and loss and super isolated connecting with myself, but in this very unhealthy way, and then turning that pain and loneliness into. I got to be the best teacher possible so I can help people change their lives. It's perfect. Like, it's. It's all ultimately perfect. Speaker C 00:32:33.400 - 00:33:52.340 Yeah, man, thanks for sharing that. I just feel like it's such a. Such an issue for so many men, you know, that grew up in. In the world around, you know, the porn mags first, but then videos and now like 247 online. And what is that doing to, like, you know, A six year old, a seven year old, an eight year old, when they're being exposed to like the most extreme forms of pornography online. And how does it impact their sense of self? How does that impact their, their relationships? Like, it's, it's, it's like I, I just appreciate more people talking about it, you know, because like I get it. As a kid, you don't know, you just have a body, you're like, oh, I have a heart on, I'm turned on. Let me just do this thing, you know, Especially if you're not feeling the guilt around it. But then you realize how it can impact you later on in life, in your relationships, how you view yourself. And that split too. It's like we have this multiplicity where it's like, yeah, you can be a badass teacher, a badass educator and be awesome in so many areas of your life, but then have like these little like, you know, the little gremlins in the corner, you know, as you're living your private life where no one's there, no one's watching you. And what's different with like porn and sex than let's say if you're like a crack addict, it like also doesn't show, it doesn't really show. Like, like you could just look like a normal person and then have this, this powerful deep like habit, you know, as opposed to like if you're drinking all the time or taking or a heroin addict, like it just look, you can, people can see it more. Do you know what I'm trying to say? Speaker B 00:33:52.420 - 00:36:54.260 I, I do and I would, I would suggest that or, or just add to, I mean I've danced with like my motto is around and find out. Like as long as I'm not going to directly harm anybody else, like I know what I can absorb, I know what I can take. So like let me go be a guinea pig for my life and see. So alcohol Kratom. Holy shit, man. I was on that shit for like the feel free stuff. God. Worst thing I've ever experienced. Absolute worst thing I've ever experienced. But I had to know. So I found that out. Porn was a big one. But in the absence of those things, I still, I still enjoy drinking sometimes. But with, with porn being completely out of the picture, with Kratom being completely out of pict, I can say now being on the other side and having had time to accumulate and recoup that specifically, you know, that vital life force energy and then you know your, your neural pathways are healing from that onslaught of, of Just shocking imagery. There is a marked difference that I began to experience when I would go out. And I'm not. How do I say it? I'm accumulating. Accumulating. Okay, so I'm accumulating all this energy plus meditating, plus like praying, plus just this intention every day. Like I am an angel walking the planet among other angels. And all I'm going to do today is I'm going to be one angel recognizing another. And it's like that kind of glow. And I get why I drank so much in porn and strip clubs and the whole thing. Thing, because that took the. The. Some of the buoyancy away. And I think I. I'll. Maybe I'll find this out in the future. But like, I couldn't take the level of light that was available. And so I had to like, ground myself with all that other stuff, which was highly experiential. But in the absence of that stuff, the light and now somehow being gifted or given or developed the ability to hold that light. And it's like the coincidences are insane. Women are wildly attracted, but they don't know why, and. But they feel safe at the same time. So it's okay for them to be attracted and you just have a, you know, a light conversation. But it's clear, like, I'm not available for that because I'm looking for the one who's going to be the mother of my many, many, many children. And I know that you're not it all that to say there's a giant difference in my personal experience between being, you know, in the porn strip club world. And yes, it's energizing in a way, but it's a. You guys are bringing out so much new stuff for me. I'm gonna have to journal shit out of this. But it's like one is. Is like an artificial energy and it's very compelling, but the other one is a natural, infinite energy. And, and there is a. There is a difference. Speaker C 00:36:54.260 - 00:37:22.080 I do. I get. I get what you're saying because as someone who has grappled with, you know, porn and, you know, as a young, like, rubbing went out multiple, multiple times a day, you know, like, and like how I feel as a man, as a person, when I have a more clear connection to that light, to that channel, when I haven't exposed my eyes and my brain to that level of imagery, like, who I am is completely different. How I feel about myself, how I feel about the world, how I feel about the work I do in the world. I mean, how I connect to my wife. Speaker B 00:37:22.080 - 00:37:22.560 Yes. Speaker C 00:37:23.040 - 00:37:24.080 Very different. Speaker B 00:37:24.160 - 00:37:30.760 Yes. Now we're. We're gods on this planet, man. That's why we're here. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker A 00:37:34.120 - 00:37:45.800 I love the depth that we're getting to already. You're kind of tapping into it now, Jesse, but can you kind of extrapolate this idea of the action philosopher in terms of your way of being? Speaker B 00:37:46.520 - 00:37:51.880 Yeah, I'd be happy to. And I'm gonna. I'm gonna go take a walk with you guys back to my truck and get some water. But. Speaker A 00:37:54.020 - 00:37:57.300 The little of action philosophy right now, actually. Speaker B 00:37:57.380 - 00:38:21.470 Yeah, this. Let me see if there's any here. Yeah, this, this tree here, this, this will tie into action philosophy. So this tree right here, these guys, this is called Yopan. And this is a. It's the only native North American source of caffeine. Speaker A 00:38:22.510 - 00:38:23.070 Oh, wow. Speaker B 00:38:23.070 - 00:38:28.270 Really makes a really good tea. Yeah, it's. It's the. Like a cousin to Yerba mate. Speaker A 00:38:28.350 - 00:38:28.990 Uh huh. Speaker B 00:38:28.990 - 00:39:11.820 And it grows there. I mean, this is. It grows everywhere. And Yaupon. Yeah, you can get it, but it's not widely available. That's a whole other story for another time is the total smear campaign by the King of England because he didn't want people finding out that the Americas had tea because the British crown had a total tea cartel. So they basically named it. He told the royal botanist to name it Ilex, which is the holly Ilex vomitoria, because the natives would drink like a gallon of it to purge before they went to war. So then they named it Ilex vomitoria, and now, 500 years later, nobody's ever heard of this. So wild. Speaker A 00:39:12.220 - 00:39:12.860 That's crazy. Speaker C 00:39:12.860 - 00:39:15.660 That's crazy. And it's all over Texas. Or is it other parts of the region? Speaker B 00:39:16.250 - 00:39:19.530 It's everywhere. Oh, well, all over the. All over the Southern United States. Speaker A 00:39:20.090 - 00:39:20.570 Wow. Speaker B 00:39:21.530 - 00:39:21.930 Wow. Speaker A 00:39:21.930 - 00:39:23.850 This big defamation conspiracy. Speaker B 00:39:24.570 - 00:39:35.290 Totally. Totally. All right, I just have to get some water. That was awesome. All right. And it's a very cliche, but I'm Texan, I have a truck, so it's all right, bro. Speaker C 00:39:35.290 - 00:39:39.130 I'm looking for. I'm looking for a truck, and I live in the LA area, so no worries. Speaker B 00:39:39.290 - 00:39:41.690 Oh, man, you're gonna make them their pants in la. Speaker C 00:39:42.010 - 00:39:43.810 Well, I'm in Topanga, so at least it's a little. Speaker B 00:39:43.810 - 00:39:45.070 Oh, you're good? Oh, you're fine then. Speaker C 00:39:45.220 - 00:39:46.180 Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. Speaker B 00:39:47.460 - 00:41:05.040 Okay. Yeah. Thank you for that tea. Commercial break. Yeah, the. The action philosopher part. When I was a kid, I read so much. Like I read four or five, six Hours a day, I'd go to karate, take the bus 45 minutes, go take a couple of classes, take the bus home, stop at the library because I had to transfer, load up on books, take another bus back to my house, read for another 2, 3, 4 hours, and then fall asleep. So I've always just like. I just have a voracious. I. I think every human being has a voracious appetite. Appetite for things that are interesting to them, as long as they're not too scarred over by fear or trauma or, you know, overcorrection or external guidance or whatever. And I became really enchanted with certain thinkers. You know, I read some great books. A Sovereign Individual by, you know, James Dale Davidson, Lord William Rees Mogg finally got into. When I was, like, 24, 25, got into Atlas Shrugged. Took me a year to crack into it, but then I cracked into it. I was like, oh, my God. Speaker A 00:41:05.040 - 00:41:05.590 Oh, yeah. Speaker B 00:41:06.620 - 00:43:43.220 And. And so many more. Lodging of Wayfaring Men by Paul Rosenberg was another pivotal one. And I. I realized, like, how. How activated I am by these ideas and, you know, an older stuff, too, when I was a kid, you know, like reading Tolkien, you know, and like, you know, Tom Bombadil, this obscure character who's not in the movies at all, except for some little terrible Hollywood representation, but he's like the one character in all of the Lord of the Rings that the Ring doesn't have any power over. He's, like, disinterested in power. And I remember reading that as a kid going, this guy, he gets it. So I've always been interested, attracted to, resonate with deep thinking. But the part that just was astonishing to me because I came from a fight background where nobody cares how beautiful your technique is. Like, let's find out. Let's find out how that beautiful technique works. And if your beautiful technique can tap me out, I will pay you and be your student. But if your beautiful technique fails where it actually matters, then I don't want it. Not only do I want to not ever hear about your beautiful technique again, but you need to start learning this if you want to call yourself a teacher. And I was. I'm not as aggressive these days, but I was definitely aggressive back then. I was like, put up a shut up, man. So I came from that world of only results count. And then I started reading more philosophy, you know, and reading, like, Nietzsche. And I was like, wow, this concept, the Superman. But then I started studying Nietzsche's life, and I was like, oh, he actually, in fact, was not a Superman. He's Kind of this, you know, sickly dude who's, like, very smart, wrote very well, but I was like. That just felt weird to me. And I can definitely separate, as I think we all can. We can separate the art from the artist, and. And that's fine. But I. It made me sad when I would read someone's beautiful ideas, especially when I got into coaching consulting, and I started meeting people, I started meeting my heroes. And I'm like, you're a train wreck. Oh, my God. And I'm not saying I'm not, but, like, I will be the first one to say, bro, did you see that train wreck I just created last week? Like, man, epic evolutionary experience, man. It's gonna take me a minute to recover. But, man, what a story. Like, yeah, why not say that on stage instead of putting on a happy face or doing a bump of coke and getting out there and rocking the. You know, I won't say which conference. None of the ones that we go to. But I just. It was. Speaker C 00:43:43.220 - 00:43:46.900 I thought you were. I thought you were high at Confluence, bro. Quit lying to everyone. Okay? Speaker B 00:43:50.590 - 00:46:02.910 Can you imagine? Just do a little. Just a little rail and. Okay, guys, we'll talk about authenticity. Well, work for Sherlock Holmes. Anyway. The action philosopher part became so interesting to me, first of all, because I'd never heard it before. I never heard those two words put together. And I'm a huge fan of taking known ingredients, putting them together, and creating something that's. That's hopefully useful and hopefully original. And I just saw all these people taking so much action, but they had the depth of a mud puddle. And then I saw people who were, like, super deep, soulful thinkers who were functionally useless in the real world. Like, they couldn't market, they couldn't sell. They didn't know how to fuck properly. They didn't know how to fight. And I'm like, you sound great on paper, man, but, like, you, I don't think you're a man. I think you're an adult male human, but I don't think you're a man. And after I said that to a couple of people and got in trouble in their. You know, in their world, I was like, if you actually knew how to fight, you wouldn't take offense to that. Or. Or you would. And you would challenge me and correct me, which I would welcome. Like, let's bring that back. But it just. It just seemed to be some. Something that was missing. Yeah, in. In the. In the information space, in the coaching space, the action philosopher part. And I just realized, like, the, all the teachers that I respect so much. Like my teachers, my mentors were people who never got into teaching to make money. They never got into teaching to be famous. They never got into teaching to transform an industry. Like that business partner that I sold my schools to, he's from Paraguay and he's got, you know, had like, like a dozen brothers or something and sisters and some of them died. And I'm exaggerating the number, but he came from a big family, super poor family, found taekwondo when he kid, loved it, put his energy into it, starts teaching, started running schools, got the chance to come to America, started working for his instructor, and now is, is one of, if not the most successful martial arts entrepreneur in the history of planet Earth. But he didn't set out originally to become that. Speaker C 00:46:03.390 - 00:46:11.310 There was like, following your interest. Yeah, your interest follows the next thing, the next thing, the next thing, and then the next thing, oh, wait, I'm buying 10 schools or whatever. Speaker B 00:46:11.390 - 00:47:23.860 Right, that's exactly it. And so I've had always the most respect for people who, yes, maybe they had some sense of where it would go, but overwhelmingly my experience of people who, who say, I see myself running a multi billion dollar empire, they're absolute megalomaniacs, like psychopaths, but for people who didn't set out to do that, they just wanted to take care of people and it works so well that it just kept multiplying and next thing you know, they're finding themselves sitting on a billion dollar empire or a multi million, you know, person viewership or whatever it is. Like, I have so much respect for that. So it's the combining of useful philosophy with inspired action that I think is, is selfishly is an extension of my childhood. It's like Endless Saturday. It's like chores are done, you got five bucks allowance in your pocket. Do you want to go to the mall? Do you want to take the bus to the water park? Do you want to go build a rope swing? Do you want to go build a tree house? Do you want to go play blowgun darts? Like, you can do whatever you want. You're only limited by your imagination. And I, I feel very strongly that that's what this world is, can be for everybody. Speaker A 00:47:24.100 - 00:47:45.790 Yeah, Yeah, I love that, man. I love that you mentioned Atlas Shrugged and you know, like on Rand and like Objectivism. I mean, she really embodies this idea as well. You know, it's like reality is the measuring stick. Like, is your reality showing you that your ideas are fruitful in terms of more fulfillment, more success, More. Whatever it might be or not. You know, her characters certainly do. Speaker B 00:47:45.790 - 00:48:24.030 I mean, the characters are just larger than life and. And very, very impactful. There's some great interviews with her on Phil donahue, you know, the 70s talk show or 80s. And, you know, there's evidence to support. I haven't seen it, but, you know, that she actually received welfare later in life, which I can only imagine, you know, like, what led to that. And where. Where was she off in her philosophy? Was her philosophy off? And I love that because it's like, you know, you don't arrive. You're just always arriving. You know, you're just always seeing. Seeing. I think about, like, just hitting the refresh on the browser of life. You're like, let me see what's rendered. Let me. Let me see what. Rendered. Speaker A 00:48:24.190 - 00:48:43.770 Yeah. Okay, so in. This is an interesting question, I want to. I want to extrapolate with you. Like, how do you view the nature of reality? Like, what is your. Under. Your general philosophy or deeper understanding of how reality operates? Speaker B 00:48:46.250 - 00:52:36.280 When are we gonna get anything deep, Joel? Because that's just like, such a softball question, dude. All right, well, let's go there. I. If, man, if I were to put some number on it, I would guess that reality is an IMAX screen that in itself is expanding at an exponential rate. And I am the size of a carbon atom. And I'm like, observing a hydrogen atom and maybe another hydrogen atom. Like, that's what I can perceive a reality. The rest is pure conjecture. And I don't even think my consciousness has the capacity to come close to imagining the rest of this dimension, let alone the fact that there are other dimensions, perhaps without limit. And so I think using. For me to use these human mouth sounds called words to try and attempt to describe the totality of everything that is, can be, ever was, or will be, is how cults get started. It's how religions get started. And I've certainly considered doing those, but realized that I'd be in direct violation of my own principles. Reality is perception. Perception is malleable. And perception seems to expand in direct proportion to the frequency and the. And the. The. The repetition of meaningfully novel experiences. In other words, do diff. Do different things say yes to different things, especially if they're a little scary or particularly inspired. And, you know, this classic in the business world. But, you know, never, never be the smartest person in the room. You know, you want to be in a room where you're, like, the dumbest person. You. If you want to make more money you cannot hang out with people who make the same amount or less than you and expect to make more. You just. It's a guaranteed way to stay the same. So you may have to tell those friends that you're gonna go on a six month sabbatical, tell them why or not. And do not talk to anybody who make less money than you. Only talk to people who make more than you. And in six months, you will have made more money than you've ever imagined making, because your whole orientation changes. And apply that to anything. You know, it's like, I'm doing that with relationships right now. Getting. Not getting, but. But making a new decision. I was confronted by a good friend of mine a couple nights ago, and he's like, dude, you not in the relationship of your dreams. And he didn't say it that way, but that was the. That was the gist. And. And I said I had all this excuses. I was like, oh, it's not time yet. And he was like, no, dude. He's like, you're. Why have you not chosen to be in this relationship? And I was like, oh, there it is. And I felt it in my body. And I told him, I said, because I don't believe that's possible because I don't have a belief that you can choose to be in the relationship that you really want to be in. And he was like, well, no wonder you're not in a relationship then. Like an idiot. And it was fantastic. So that reality shift. And I texted him the next day. I said, thank you for the wisdom. I would only be able to hear it. Or I said I needed to hear it from someone who I respect because he's created for himself what I want. Yeah, he has a you family, which he's talked about on many podcasts. Tucker Max. He says people talk about you money. He's like, no, it's like, I have a family. Speaker A 00:52:36.520 - 00:52:40.480 Yeah, I love that. I think you're covering the microphone. There you go. Speaker B 00:52:40.480 - 00:52:41.560 Yeah, what's. What's that? Speaker A 00:52:41.560 - 00:52:45.560 I think you were covering the microphone with your right hand. But you're finished. Good now. Yeah, good now. Speaker B 00:52:45.880 - 00:52:46.520 Are we good? Speaker A 00:52:46.520 - 00:53:01.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that, man. I mean, and that's and that's like. Like our perception of value is so limited as well. You know what I mean? Like, value extends so much further beyond the monetary discussion. Speaker B 00:53:04.200 - 00:55:53.440 Sorry about that. I did. It extends so far beyond. And to expand one's reality, you know, is that a state change that somebody's looking for or is it a circumstance change? Is it a Change in environment, because those are three different kind of realities. And state changes are very powerful, but they're also temporary unless the state change leads to a behavior change and a decision change that changes their circumstances, changes their environment, changes their standards, their boundaries, their sense of inner freedom, sense of confidence, all those things. And a question I ask every single client, if they're doing like, deeper private work or like a VIP day or something, is. I'll ask them. I'm like, how long do you want to live? Like, if you could pick your. Your. Your crap out date, like, what's your expiration date? And they're like, sometimes they thought about it, a lot of times they haven't. And then they pick it. And I'll say, cool. What are the reasons that came to your mind why you picked that date? And oftentimes they'll say things like, well, you know, my grandmother lived to this or such and such a dis. Ease runs in my family or whatever. And I said, okay, well, were they aware of those factors the way that you are? And they'll usually say, no, actually said, okay, so your, your expiration date is like 50 years from now or whatever. If they would have known 50 years ago, before they passed that they. They had this precondition or whatever, do you think there are steps they could have taken? The answer is always yes. I said, okay, and are there things available now? Wisdoms that are available? Are there techniques? Are there modalities that are available that weren't available back then? Yes. Said, okay, so what do you think the chances are that you're still going to die on that date, given everything you just said? And they always go, holy. I said, well, how much extra time do you think you'd have? And they'll say, oh, another 10 years, 20 years sometimes, you know, 50 years. I said, okay. And then it hits them and they're just like, my life just extended by like 30 years. Like, I can feel it. I'm like, cool. Like, that's awesome. So what do you want those extra years to be about? And then they. It's just within, within two minutes, you have your whole perspective changed. And you feel this relief of like, holy shit, man. I thought I had like five seconds to make that shot. And now I realize I have, like three minutes, which means I can, like, practice the shot a couple of times. You know, it's that expansion of perspective and that expansion of awareness is, is that's why we're here. And we're here to do that for each other. Speaker A 00:55:53.760 - 00:55:54.160 Yeah. Speaker B 00:55:54.160 - 00:56:18.080 And I've been so blessed by. I mean, I'm blessed by this conversation because it's just, you know, it bring. It brings out the best in all of us. And, you know, sometimes we have the words, and sometimes we just have the frequency and the attention that brings the words forward. Yeah. You know, without you guys, it's not like I'm gonna be sitting here talking to this cedar tree going, guess what? What? You know, it's like this is a pure co creation, man, at its finest. Speaker A 00:56:18.240 - 00:56:27.720 Yeah. It feels like so much of what you're saying is like, just be a pattern breaker, you know, like, of your own patterns. Speaker B 00:56:27.720 - 00:56:28.160 For sure. Speaker A 00:56:28.400 - 00:56:40.210 Yeah. Like one of my favorite, you know, quotes that classic Joseph Campbell. The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek. But like, the cave keeps reappearing. There's always more cave to enter endlessly. Speaker B 00:56:40.520 - 00:56:52.920 Well, and dude. And to take that. And I just thought of this now because of what you said. But if we don't keep seeking out caves, the cave that we stay in will us up. Speaker A 00:56:53.160 - 00:56:53.720 Yeah. Speaker B 00:56:53.880 - 00:58:32.080 And it will us up by removing our ambition and our desire. And then we become small, shriveled up, protective, little, you know, oh, let me pay all my taxes. Let me pay extra just for Ukraine or whatever, you know, and it's like, it's like, cool, go do that. And like, your ancestors fought grizzly bears and Comanches, bro. And you're over here, you know, tipping the barista. The, the, the, the prescribed minimum 22% for pushing a button, you know, and it's like, what happened? And that's what happens when we fail to, as you said, seek out new caves or, or as, as I stated earlier, seek meaningful novelty. And, you know, I am. There are circles that I am blessed to be in where I am the most boring dude in the conversation. And I love it. I love it. And so it's, it's like, you know, how do you continue? And that's why this, this dialogue and this podcast is so important, because where else are you. Where else are you going to find a grounded conversation, you know, with. With healthy human beings who have their. Together who give a. But who are also confident. Confident enough. This is the read I get on you guys and Joel. I picked it up at dinner immediately. You're confident enough in yourself to have the curiosity of a child. And for most, most adults, they stop having curiosity because it means they don't know. And then other people will think less of them because they don't have it all figured out. So stupid. Speaker C 00:58:32.880 - 00:58:41.360 I just want to be a Fly in the wall on the room where you're the most boring person in there. Because I feel like everyone must be high on cocaine or something to beat. Speaker B 00:58:42.320 - 00:58:43.680 It's not coke. I'll tell you. Speaker C 00:58:46.320 - 00:58:55.680 Interesting person, other people as well, that are engaging and amazing and awesome, but you know, like, I don't think I could put boring and you in the same sentence and hate no matter what. Speaker B 00:58:55.680 - 00:59:32.750 They, they could. Could. Wow. Okay. They could. And, and what's weird is that it, you know, it's, it's. Huh. It is possible and I think we've all had this experience in one way or another. It is possible to be absolutely enchanted by a blade of grass. Yeah. And to find that blade of grass so fascinating. And then what the thoughts then lead to. And if you can do that with a blade of grass, you can do it with your Uber driver. Speaker A 00:59:33.790 - 00:59:34.350 Yep. Speaker B 00:59:34.350 - 01:00:57.040 And if you can do it with your Uber driver, you can do it with the, you know, the, the, the, you know, the blue haired barista who expects 22% automatically for pushing a button, but then with kindness and playfulness and rapport. You know, this is probably terrible form, but I told this woman at the, at the thing, lovely, lovely Latina with blue hair, which I was like, oh, you're just on all the teams, aren't you? But I just, I looked at her and I said, I said, as has ice been in today? She did not think that was funny, except I was smiling. I said, because I would like some ice in my, in my drink, if that's cool. She did not, still didn't think it was funny. And I said that was, that was an awful joke, wasn't it? She's like, yes. I said, okay, that's my white privilege, isn't it? She's like, now she's thoroughly confused. Right. I'm just, I said, I'm just with you. I grew up as a minority. My nickname growing up is Chui Huero Iflaco. I was the only white kid within five miles. So like the weirdo in me sees the weirdo on you. And then she finally laughed and like high fived me me. And it's like, that's not hard to do. It's not hard to do, like to get along with other human beings, give them, but like see the goodness in them. And I hope that people give me because that makes me respect them more. Speaker A 01:00:57.360 - 01:00:57.760 Yeah. Speaker B 01:00:57.760 - 01:01:32.220 But it's like the, the being, the being the most boring person in the room, I think is honestly a choice to be boring. And, and, and if we lead and it doesn't have to be parachuting and skydiving and skinny dipping and all those kind of things. A family like you take on a different role. But then I think it's about facilitating those experiences for, you know, the, the human beings that you have a responsibility to encourage without encouraging their, their. Their creativity and their, and their curiosity. Yeah. Speaker C 01:01:32.540 - 01:01:33.860 Jesse, how old are you going to live? Speaker B 01:01:33.860 - 01:01:38.500 Until 150 and then I'll. Then I'll see about renewing my lease. Yeah. Speaker C 01:01:38.500 - 01:01:39.580 150, you said? Speaker B 01:01:39.580 - 01:01:40.310 Yeah. Yeah. Speaker C 01:01:40.390 - 01:01:44.750 Okay, cool. That's cool. I've always said 120, so I don't know. Speaker B 01:01:44.750 - 01:01:45.550 Everybody's got a number. Speaker C 01:01:45.550 - 01:01:48.750 Maybe I just need to hang out with you more, dude. So I could live to 150, you know. Speaker B 01:01:48.750 - 01:02:20.220 Well, it could also end today, and I'd be totally happy with it. And, like, I've had a handful of near death experiences. Gone to the light, been there, left the body. And then it is awesome. And I was very disappointed. And they're like, you have to go back. And I was like, no, this is so cool. I was like, bummed. I was sad. I was depressed for a couple of days, but then I realized, like, we don't die. Like, we just never die. So if I, quote, unquote, died today, I'd be like, great, man, what a. What an awesome run. But I do expect to hang out for about another 100 years, though. Speaker C 01:02:20.220 - 01:02:23.260 What were the activities that you were doing that led to the near death experience? Speaker B 01:02:25.180 - 01:05:16.200 Dude, the last. Not the last one. The one before. The last one was totally endogenous. I was in a sauna, totally sober. It was just sweating, getting ready to get on a plane and go speak at some event in, in Scottsdale. And I was sitting there and all of a sudden my body is just filled up with so much bliss and, like, overwhelming joy. And I just can't believe how, like, mind blowingly happy I feel beyond happy. And I got up, I went in the cold plunge, and it turned up even more. I was like, what? Like this. It was. I was like, this is why people take drugs, to try and get close to this feeling. And then I got out of the cold plunge, back in the sauna, and it just keeps going and going and going. And it occurs to me that the body is not designed to handle this much energy and that I think, oh, I think this is it. And I thought, should I tell the other people in the sauna, like, hey, I'm about to, like, peace out, like, and. And I had this very strong feeling, like, it's fine if you do. And then this presence appears, like in my, in my mind, in my being. And it was very clear. It said, you've got, you know, this doesn't happen a lot, but you've got an opening now. If you want to take it, just say yes. And you can just leave your body there and then you can, you know, come this way and, and move on. And you can't get it right, can't get it wrong. Because death is not real. And everybody in this place with the body and their bodies will have their own experience around your experience of death that has nothing to do with you. And they're going to have their own experience. And that's like, you're free from that. You don't have to worry about that. And it was a very clear choice. And I sat with it for a couple minutes. I was like, first of all, this is wild. Secondly, I can't believe the amount of joy that I'm feeling. And then an image popped into my mind of a woman and a child. And it was somebody that I knew, but it was more about the archetype than her specifically. And then it was just super clear. I was like, no, I have to experience family, like my own Earth family or I want to, I don't have to. So I said, no, I'm going to pass on the choice. I'm going to stay here and do, to do family. And it was very, very peaceful and benevolent. It was like, all right, cool. All right, this may come up again, it might not, but you're doing great. Keep it up. And that was that. And then the portal closed. I was still like kind of a come down, but not bad. It was just like peaceful. And for weeks after that I would wake up or like check my phone in the middle of the day, like to text my wife or to see, you know, where we're going to do, you know, what are we going to do with the kids later? Or I've got this idea for the kids. And then it would hit me that, oh yeah, I don't have life, I don't have kids. Like lasted for like weeks. Speaker C 01:05:18.040 - 01:05:19.400 That's wild, dude. Speaker A 01:05:21.960 - 01:05:49.430 You seem to be obviously someone who carries around a very visceral feeling that, you know, life is beyond this experience. Like, how does that impact you on a day to day basis in terms of your decision making, like, process? Because, you know, like this fear of death is so inherent and innate and it's like the main modus operandi pretty much for the majority of us. Speaker B 01:05:51.190 - 01:11:31.240 Yeah, seems to be. Yeah, I. I used to be really scared of it when I was really little. Like, probably, you know, six, seven, eight. You know, the brain is still developing, still kind of figuring life out. I mean, definitely figuring life out. And I was terrified of my parents dying. You know, our family is so tight and just so close, and. And, you know, it was really scary. And then when I was nine, we lived in the Rio Grande Valley in South Texas. My dad was working as a halfway house, a director for a halfway house for Salvadorian refugees. There was a lot of legal stuff that was going on, and there was a chance that he would be arrested, and if he was arrested and convicted, there's a chance he could go to prison for a very long time. So that fear was. Was active, and, you know, it was all around the fear of. The fear of loss. And I wouldn't. As a kid, I would just make myself feel sad about my parents dying so I could, like, get used to it when it happened. I have no idea where that idea came from, but it just. I would just make myself, like, imagine my parents dead. Like, I would make myself imagine them, imagine myself at their funeral, and, like, now I have to take care of my siblings, and, like, you know, we're gonna live with Uncle Rob. And, you know, I was just like, imagine the saddest thing I could possibly imagine. And I would try and get to the bottom of the sadness, because I'd be in my bed, like, crying, like, just grief, but knowing also, like, there's more. Like, I can. I can. I can go deeper. So I'd make myself cry until I. I couldn't feel any sadder. And then I would come out of it, and I'd be like, all right, well, I'm not afraid of that anymore, because I just experienced it. And so I had some other experiences around the idea of death where. And I've told the story many times in speeches and. And podcasts, but I was riding my bike one day, I was a kid, and I'm seeing this body of a squirrel by the curb. And so I stop my bike and I get off, and I'm looking at this thing, but it doesn't feel like squirrel to me. You know, we had squirrels in our backyard, and they were, like, jumping and chattering and, you know, throwing nuts at you and, you know, eating bird seed and, you know, knocking over the bird feeder. I mean, that's in my mind, like, that's squirrel. This thing called squirrel. This thing is not squirrel. And I'm like. I just remember being like, Curious about that. It looks like a squirrel, but it's not a. It's not squirrel. In that moment, this. The wind's blowing by, and a candy bar wrapper blows by, and I can see it so clearly as a Butterfingers candy bar wrapper, and it just blows right by the body of the squirrel. And I was like, okay, so that's not the squirrel. That's the wrapper for the thing that's called squirrel. And that was a wrapper for the candy bar. The actual candy bar has been enjoyed. Somebody ate it and enjoyed it, and then that's just the wrapper. So they're not the same thing. And then years Later, I was 20 years old, and I had a fight in one of these, like, no rules bar fights. Long story short, I ended up losing gloriously. The guy was, like, 30 pounds heavier. His corner had covered him in Vaseline, so I couldn't take him down. And he beat the out of me for, like, 15 minutes. And I just absorbed just punch after punch. Went to the hospital afterwards, had a collapsed lung. And laying in the hospital bed with a collapsed lung, looking up at the hospital light, asking, how am I doing? And the answer that I get is, I'm fine. I'm like, this is very confusing for me. I just had the worst night of my life, and I'm fine. So who's the me that got his ass kicked? And who's the me that's fine? Message comes in, you have a body, but you're not your body. And I'm like, oh, yeah, candy wrapper. Okay, well, then what is the me that has this body if I'm not my body? And that was a big. That was. That was a big reveal for me that night. It was basically the message is that you. You don't. You don't experience time. The. The real you doesn't experience time the way that human you does. Human you experiences past, present, present, future. You're young, you go to older, eventually you quote, unquote, die. But it's just one tiny, tiny, tiny aspect of. Of who and what you really are condensed into this experience. And you don't have to limit your total experience to this experience. You can. You can access more of yourself and. And you know, that's a big part of what that night was about. So after that night, I really became not totally fearless, but I really stopped worrying about the future, stopped worrying about other people thought of me, for the most part, stopped being afraid of disapproval, stopped seeking approval so much, and began to have way more fun with my life. And it was really beautiful to end up teaching martial arts, which is an unregulated industry. And so you can just iterate like a motherfucker. You can just test so many different things. Test offers, test techniques, market data, classroom strategies. You can. You're operating in a vacuum of any sort of external control. You know, it's not like a financial advisor or, you know, a lawyer. You know, like, you're. You're an artist. Speaker A 01:11:31.320 - 01:11:31.720 Yeah. Speaker B 01:11:31.720 - 01:16:21.080 And you're totally free. And I think that we all are. And the illusion of death is a big one. But, you know, my father had his experience end of July, he died on. Well, he began voluntarily stopping eating and drinking on July 21st. And our whole family was there. My brothers, my sister, her son, which she brought with her. And then my mom was there, and for 11 days, we were all with my dad in the. In the house that he. That he and my mom raised us in. And it was. It was the most beautiful, connected, powerful time. I. I can only speak for myself because, you know, each of my siblings has their own beliefs and they have their own values and they have their own relationship with our father and our mother. But when the love that exists and the love that is amplified in an experience like that, when. And again, totally my subjective experience on this, but zero regrets, nothing that needed to be said. Everything was. Everything was already said. Confrontations that needed to be happened had already happened. Forgivenesses had occurred. A couple of years ago, my dad was expressing some regrets about things that happened that, you know, things he wished he would have done for us that he didn't. And. And I was also like, you're free to have that if you want it, dad, but. And maybe you need to have that conversation with the others. But as far as I'm concerned, there's not a single thing that I would change because even the most fucked up parts, you getting arrested and us thinking you're going to go to prison, like, yeah, that sucked. And it was the best lesson in principled living that I could have ever asked for. For. And so, like, I'm glad that you made those choices so that I could have something to make new choices for myself with. And he told me a couple of years ago, he said. He said, well, I don't know if I taught you how to live well, but I intend to teach you how to die well. And then fast forward July 11, he stops eating and drinking. And for 11 days, we were all in the house with him as he just slowly, just gracefully is a hero's Death. And his heart stopped beating at 3:51pm on August 1st. And we all were in the room with him. And there's a couple moments of stillness and then everybody knew what to do. My mom and my sister began anointing his body and oil. And they wrapped his chin up in gauze to keep his mouth closed. And my brothers put the seat up in the back of the truck. We folded his body in a sheet. We put his T shirt that he wanted to be cremated in on top of him. It was Vietnam Veterans against the War. It was an organization that he'd been in for years. Wrapped him up in a sheet, wrapped the sheet in a tarp, duct taped the tarp, picked up his head and shoulders. Brother picked up his legs. We carried his body through the living room, down the steps, out the front yard, put in the back of the truck, we caravan and two trucks, our whole family, down to the crematorium on the south side of San Antonio. And when we got there, we all just started laughing because it was perfect. He would have loved it. It was this three, four acre property. Chickens running around everywhere, some Ghostbusters looking hearse in front of this little tiny funeral home, horses. And we pull around the back and brought his body, put it on the gurney. Had a very nice conversation with the funeral director and we kissed his head. My dad, not the funeral director. And then. And we all got back in the, in the trucks and we drove back and had more family time. And in the month and. And a half, almost two months that's passed since then, everybody's processed in their own way. But somebody asked me a couple weeks ago, they said it was, you know, is your dad spiritual? I said, it's pretty spiritual now. And he never was as a, as a, as a human. Yeah. But he lived his spirituality. He didn't have a spiritual philosophy. He was the. The most kind, compassionate, present, thoughtful person I've ever met in my life. Speaker A 01:16:23.480 - 01:16:24.360 It's incredible. Speaker B 01:16:25.639 - 01:16:26.120 Yeah. Yeah. Speaker A 01:16:26.120 - 01:16:32.360 I remember being really touched by this story when you shared it that night. Like you said, a timer. When he's, when he said he wanted to. Speaker B 01:16:32.360 - 01:16:34.360 Declared. Yeah, that we set a timer. Speaker A 01:16:35.080 - 01:16:39.870 Yeah. And there was a moment where, like he was kind of, of asking for food or water or something. Right? Speaker B 01:16:40.270 - 01:17:20.920 Yeah, that was, that was tough. Yeah. He. He had us read a chapter of a book on vset, voluntarily stopping eating and drinking. And, and he outlined it. It specifically said that when somebody goes through this process, they may forget why they are not drinking water, why are they not eating, and they'll they'll ask. And if that happens, you can't, like, you can't give it to him. You're just going to extend the. Extend the process. And there came a day. It was. It was day nine, and. And I happened to be in there, and I was just holding his hand and talking to him, and. And he. He went like. He went like this. Like, you know, straw. Like water. Speaker A 01:17:21.080 - 01:17:21.640 Yeah. Speaker B 01:17:22.040 - 01:19:03.500 And. And then he. He. After. After he did that. And I'm just kind of looking at him and he's going like this. And then he just puts his hands like this, like, please. And that was. I've experienced some tough things in my life, and that is easily at the top. And I just held his hand and I just looked at him. I said, dad, we can. Can't give you any water. And, man, it hurt. It hurt so bad. Which is nothing compared to what he was experiencing. Yeah, I just said, we can't. We can't do it, dad. And then he just. His eyes still kind of close, and he just goes like this. I was like, were you testing me? But it was, yeah, incredibly powerful and the same energy as. As when it. When a. When a child is born. It's just a massive trans. Transference of energy. And yes, all the associated feelings of loss, if that's what we're focused on. But all I could focus on was my. My brothers, my sister, my mom. But they're so sovereign in their own experiences, and that's such a big part of our family. Nobody interferes. If you need something, we're there, but we're not going to intrude. And it's. It's incredible. So I was just got to be present with him and just feel this, like, you got it, dad. Come on, man. You got it. You're almost there. Like, it was. It was very much a birthing. Birthing process. Speaker A 01:19:05.340 - 01:19:07.500 No, I appreciate you sharing, man. Thank you so much. Speaker B 01:19:11.660 - 01:19:12.060 Man. Speaker A 01:19:12.060 - 01:19:19.220 It's. It's hard. It's hard to move on from, you know, that in terms of. Conversationally for sure. Speaker B 01:19:20.500 - 01:19:20.820 Yeah. Speaker C 01:19:20.820 - 01:19:22.580 I'm just grateful that you shared that. Speaker B 01:19:22.980 - 01:21:24.250 You know, appreciate the space to do it. I think it's a. I think it's a conversation that's, you know, worth exploring because they're, you know, our. I think most people would say, you know, yeah, everybody gets to live an individual life. And yet death is so monopolized. You know, it's like there's, like that's. There's a lot of ways to go. I mean, you could get struck by lightning or you could you know, get double vaccinated in the anus or whatever. I mean it's a lot of, a lot of ways to die I guess. But the, the meaning of death has been so subverted. And if you're Christian it means this and if you're Muslim it means this and if you're atheist it means that. And yeah, what do you want it to mean? It's your death. Like what do you want it to mean? And I've, I've always. This is maybe another topic for another time but like I really love being a free agent human. You know, I don't belong to any teams. You know, I belong to tribes that are merit based and as long as I have value to them and they have value to me, we'll keep it going. But I'm, I am part of no team. And I was having this conversation with Jesus. It was incredibly, incredibly real. And he was not frustrated, but he was like, he was like, dude, I never said believe unto me. I just said believe me. Like look what I'm doing, like I'm telling the truth and that which I have done, you can do so. But they took that word and they put believe unto me and they created a deity. So now I'm on chat GPT. I'm like, who wrote that passage? Nobody knows. I was like, who's the Zionist? Wasn't. I'm just kidding or not, but it's like free agent man. And, and that is for me it's the only way to go. Yeah, because I, I just don't, I don't, I just don't enjoy being part of congregations, but I love being part of resonant groups. Speaker C 01:21:25.130 - 01:21:27.010 Yeah, only, Amen brother. Speaker B 01:21:27.010 - 01:21:30.390 Amen. Only as long as it has value. Not because we're supposed to. Speaker A 01:21:33.100 - 01:22:03.170 I mean it's really just like, you know, we talk about sovereignty so much, but how many of us actually are willing to live our lives without the map, like properly burning the map. Like any, any pre existing pre written ideas about how to do business, how to do relationships, how to do death, how to do whatever it might be like what's on the other side of all that? Speaker B 01:22:04.450 - 01:22:05.090 You're on mute. Speaker A 01:22:05.090 - 01:22:05.810 You muted yourself. Speaker B 01:22:06.210 - 01:23:33.950 Yeah, because my. Sorry, my car was chiming. No, and I think it is that that is a central question for a lot of people and it's, it's so funny, I see so many people that have, they're like, especially with the law stuff, you know, and they're like, if only more people would do this. I'm like, you're dead. Defeating the purpose. More people can't be sovereign for you. And I don't even. Sovereigns are, but you know what I mean? And it's like, if enough people knew this, then what? Then you'd feel secure enough within yourself to be yourself that you realize how backwards that sounds. But I also recognize most people do need external security, which is why, I mean, I've changed some of my views or expanded my views on, you know, external control, which I used to. I mean, for most of my life I was like, ah, raging as a machine. You, I'm gonna do what you tell me, which I still am. But I did have a sense for many years, especially in 2020, I was like, if there was no more controllers, no more rulers, then people would be free. And then I'm like, no, actually, people would literally just not know what to do with themselves without being told what to do. And then I was like, oh, that's right. They're all, it's all perfect. It's all good. The controllers and the controlled are perfect for each other and I don't have to have any of them need to change who they are in order for me to be who I am. That would actually contradict my philosophy. So it's all good. Speaker C 01:23:35.630 - 01:23:39.230 Yeah, I mean, I have nothing else to say. Speaker A 01:23:41.150 - 01:23:45.230 Final question. I think it ties in. What is the authenticity apocalypse? Speaker B 01:23:46.590 - 01:26:05.100 I think it starts with, we're gonna see it a lot. We're already seeing it, but in coaching and in business and in the information economy and the wisdom economy, you know, which is people sharing their life's experiences and we're gonna see it happen with certainly with AI, it's already happening. I, I make a, I make a competitive sport, or more of an extreme sport, to just aggressively unfollow anybody who's using chat GPT content when they're posing as like, I wrote this thing for you. I won't call them out unless they're. I think they need it. But usually it's like, no, but that's the beginning of it. Then you've got filters and then you've got. There are many companies already doing it where it's like a AI video version of them and they're just going to keep going. Next is you're going to have a robot that's going to make love to your wife for you. Actually won't be loved. And on and on and on. It's just going to be insane. So the authenticity apocalypse, the word apocalypse, I'm sure you guys know actual word doesn't mean destruction, it means the unveiling. And so. Yep. So the authenticity apocalypse is the revealing, the revelation of the real. But it has to go through a process of the breaking apart of the fake from the real, the artificial from the natural. And right now, people just still think everything's kind of the same. You know, I had so many people asking me, as I'm sure they ask you guys, what do you think about the Charlie Kirk shooting? I said, well, I don't know anything about a shooting. I do know that my eyes saw a 2 1/2 inch by 5 1/2 inch video of what appeared to be someone getting shot. That's as far as I know. So do you want to talk about the video? Do you want to talk about my phone and the screen dimensions? But I know nothing about the alleged Charlie Kirk shooting. Are you saying it didn't happen? I'm saying all I know is what I actually saw and I wasn't there. And so it's that beginning to sort of pull the thread on what's real and what's fake. And for those of us, and you guys very much in this camp, for those of us who make a living helping people sift and discern between what's propaganda and programming and what is truth, we're about to enter a business boom, the likes of which we've never seen in our lives. Speaker A 01:26:06.770 - 01:26:19.010 Yeah, no, I feel that for sure, man. Jesse, I can't thank you enough for your time for this conversation, for sharing this space. Is there any kind of final message you might have for those listening at this point in time? Speaker B 01:26:20.370 - 01:26:58.460 Ah, wow. Just from a teacher standpoint, if there are things that you heard in this. In this conversation today, go back and listen to it a few times. Because the first time you hear something, you know, it's kind of like hooks your attention. And that's. There's a good reason for that. When we don't always know what the reason is. Go back and listen to it a few times and. And then just kind of sit with it and see what's there for you. See if there's some sort of action to take or a decision to make. And that's been a way that I've consistently seen people get. Get value from. From dialogues as deep as we had today. Oh, man. Speaker A 01:26:58.540 - 01:27:02.910 And if people want to get deeper in touch with you, they've resonated. How can, how can they find you and get in contact? Speaker B 01:27:03.940 - 01:27:45.940 They can go to Jesse Elder on social media, Instagram, Facebook, primarily the time Piercer on Instagram, the time. Piercer on Instagram, Jesse Elder on Facebook. I still love Facebook for some reason. Like all the other ones. I'm just like, yeah, but yeah, we're, there's always something cool brewing. We've got a really, really cool, thoroughly decentralized, all over the place audience. We got, you know, 10 figure entrepreneurs who've exited and then we've got people who are, you know, in between homes, AKA homeless and they're, you know, getting data off of a Starbucks free connection and they're all watching the same videos. So it's pretty, it's pretty cool. Speaker A 01:27:46.340 - 01:27:52.340 Incredible, man. Jesse, I'm so glad we got to connect. Thank you so much for being here today. Looking forward to sharing this with our people. Speaker C 01:27:54.500 - 01:27:58.690 I echo everything Joel said. I look forward to seeing you again in person, bro. Speaker B 01:27:58.850 - 01:28:03.570 Yeah man. Thank you. Appreciate you guys both a lot and for everybody that tuned in today to, to make this possible. Speaker A 01:28:04.450 - 01:28:05.170 Thank you everyone.