The internal monarch, the external anarch

Remy's central frame: an *individual* is one who is not divided — not split from themselves. From that wholeness comes the only sane political position. *I rule me. I rule no one else.* The inversion most people live inside is internal anarchy paired with external monarchy — no ruler within, so they reach for one without.

Natural law as etymology

Remy traces it back to the Proto-Indo-European root *leg* — to lie beneath. Law isn't decree, it's the substrate. *Morality* shares a root with *measure*. A value is something you e-*valu*-ate. Morality, in his read, is the proper measurement of how your actions land inside an inherent cause-and-effect field. Not a rulebook — a physics.

If there's no prey, there's no predator

Joel's pivot mid-episode: it's easy to blame the controllers, but predators only exist where prey exists. The internal compromises are the bait. Remy adjusts the wording — they have the *ability*, not the *right* — and the group sits in the harder version of the same point. Personal responsibility as the only door out of the master-slave dynamic.

Bottlers, body workers, and the limits of the cerebral

Remy admits he's a head-first processor — he applies the compass, checks for harm, but doesn't always let himself feel. Yerasimos and Chad both come back at it from the body — Chad as a working somatic practitioner, Y as the one who walked Joel into the same territory years earlier. Awareness without embodiment becomes another shape of disconnection.

Apotheosis — *neti neti*, not this, not that

Remy's late-episode contribution. Real movement comes from being willing to say *it's not quite that* over and over again — not as cynicism, but as the actual mechanic of discovery. Paradox isn't contradiction. Each *not this* refines the shape of what is.

Proxy parents and the missing rite of passage

Joel: the authentic path is a crooked road you carve with every step. The herd path is a highway poured before you arrived. Without the ancestral rites that broke a person away from mother and father, the proxy daddy government and proxy mommy pharmaceutical fill the vacuum — *stay coddled, here's your blanket, wear it over your mouth*.

EPISODE 28 · SEP 19, 2021 · 1H 34M

Remy Vega & Chad Kilgore Natural Law: Finding Morality in an Inverted World

EPISODE 28 · REMY VEGA & CHAD KILGORE

Natural Law: Finding Morality in an Inverted World

Also on Spotify Apple Podcasts

Two early voices from the 2020 awakening wave meet on the show — Remy Vega, the symbology and natural-law researcher who had Loose Change in eighth grade and a Mexican mother who told him to think for himself, and Chad Kilgore, the former NFL athlete turned self-taught artist and body worker who realised mid-pandemic that he couldn't keep what he knew to himself and still call himself a man. The conversation moves from the trauma-as-trigger story most awakenings actually run on, through the war on masculinity and the bread-and-circuses use of athletes, into Remy's etymological breakdown of natural law — law as substrate, morality as measure, individual as the one not split from themselves.

The back half lands somewhere harder than either guest expected. Joel reframes the predator-prey dynamic onto the listener's own shadow. Chad opens up his somatic practice. Remy, the lifelong head-first processor, admits in real time that he doesn't always let himself feel. The episode closes on the inverted overlay — the proxy parents, the missing rites of passage, the platform cities being built to keep us off the ground — and the one place the predator still can't reach. That's earth school. The work doesn't start anywhere else.

The internal monarch, the external anarch Remy's central frame: an *individual* is one who is not divided — not split from themselves. From that wholeness comes the only sane political position. *I rule me. I rule no one else.* The inversion most people live inside is internal anarchy paired with external monarchy — no ruler within, so they reach for one without.
Natural law as etymology Remy traces it back to the Proto-Indo-European root *leg* — to lie beneath. Law isn't decree, it's the substrate. *Morality* shares a root with *measure*. A value is something you e-*valu*-ate. Morality, in his read, is the proper measurement of how your actions land inside an inherent cause-and-effect field. Not a rulebook — a physics.
If there's no prey, there's no predator Joel's pivot mid-episode: it's easy to blame the controllers, but predators only exist where prey exists. The internal compromises are the bait. Remy adjusts the wording — they have the *ability*, not the *right* — and the group sits in the harder version of the same point. Personal responsibility as the only door out of the master-slave dynamic.
To know and not to act is to not know at all Chad's reason for putting his face on camera at the start of 2020. He'd done all 240 of Mark Passio's podcasts taking notes, and the through-line was simple: if you don't become a teacher yourself, you haven't received the message. He has three children. He won't leave them a world of pure slavery without trying.
Bottlers, body workers, and the limits of the cerebral Remy admits he's a head-first processor — he applies the compass, checks for harm, but doesn't always let himself feel. Yerasimos and Chad both come back at it from the body — Chad as a working somatic practitioner, Y as the one who walked Joel into the same territory years earlier. Awareness without embodiment becomes another shape of disconnection.
The bag of demons in the corner Joel's frame for shadow avoidance: you build a reality around the unexamined material that perfectly excuses you from looking at it. Your relationships, your environment, your work life — all of them angle themselves to keep the bag in the corner intact. The shadow runs the casting.
Apotheosis — *neti neti*, not this, not that Remy's late-episode contribution. Real movement comes from being willing to say *it's not quite that* over and over again — not as cynicism, but as the actual mechanic of discovery. Paradox isn't contradiction. Each *not this* refines the shape of what is.
Proxy parents and the missing rite of passage Joel: the authentic path is a crooked road you carve with every step. The herd path is a highway poured before you arrived. Without the ancestral rites that broke a person away from mother and father, the proxy daddy government and proxy mommy pharmaceutical fill the vacuum — *stay coddled, here's your blanket, wear it over your mouth*.

Standout

Quotes

"To know and not to act is to not know at all."

Chad Kilgore

"An individual is truly not split up. They're not separated from themselves. I rule me, but I rule no one else."

Remy Vega

"If there wasn't prey, there would be no predator — and there's only prey because we have these blind spots that exist."

Joel Rafidi

"When the human race learns to read the language of symbolism, a great veil will fall from the eyes of man."

Chad Kilgore

"We've been living largely in an inverted version of that — internal anarchy, no ruler within, so we try to rule everybody out here."

Remy Vega

"You build a reality around you that allows that shadow to continue to exist. The people, the environments, the work, all of it — dictated by the fact that you haven't looked at the bag of demons in the corner."

Joel Rafidi

"It's knowing what something is by knowing what it's not. Paradox and contradiction are not the same thing."

Remy Vega

[Speaker 3] (0:00 - 2:21) You are now listening to the Here for the Truth podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Erasmus Stelionesis. All right, everybody, welcome back to episode number 28 of Here for the Truth. Such a pleasure to be here with you all. Appreciate you all tuning in. As always, the first half of this episode will be available to the public and the second half to our members on Patreon. And today we have two incredible gentlemen joining us to have this discussion. Firstly, I'll introduce them one by one. We've got Chad Kilgore. Chad came from a sports background. He played football most of his life, including a short stint in the NFL and a year in the Canadian Football League. Chad is now a full-time self-taught artist. Weird transition, he says. He's got a wife, three little ones, and now he lives just outside Kansas City. In addition, and probably most importantly, he's committed to finding the truth of our reality and helping others to align themselves with it. And Chad is actually an incredible artist. For those watching the visual component of this, you can see some of his work behind him. Amazing stuff, man. And we've got Remy Vega with us. Remy was born in Southern California, spending most of his life in his hometown of Victorville in the high desert. Remy was alerted to the hidden history of the world by his mother, who was born and raised in El Robo, Mexico. Upon moving to the U.S., his mother was adopted by a Methodist pastor who also had ties with Freemasonry. Remy's grandfather was an early influence of his interest in studying history, language, and spirituality. Remy's paternal grandmother, Jean, was a church pianist and organist, leading to an early interest in music. At age 14, he was shown a documentary on the events of September 11th that forever changed his perspective. This started Remy on the journey to truly understand the history of the world. During this time in middle school, Remy became equally interested in hip-hop and audio production, and eventually spent time in college studying religion with a minor in music. He's from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and he dedicates his time to music, research, archiving information, and writing. Guys, thank you so much for joining us on Here for the Truth. [Speaker 1] (2:23 - 2:25) Thank you, man. I appreciate it. [Speaker 3] (2:27 - 2:52) Now, both these gentlemen know each other, and they've got a keen shared interest in natural law, and I'm keen to just have this conversation and share this with you both. Chad, let's start with you, man. What were some of your key major rites of passage in making that transition from obviously growing up in professional sports, then obviously realizing that something's wrong or that there's something I need to figure out here? What was the catalyst for that? [Speaker 1] (2:53 - 5:01) Well, if I'm being honest, it took me a long time to figure it out. But yeah, I got out of professional sports, like that fire just burnt out. And then I knew I didn't want to go do any real-life jobs, any kind of corporate thing like that. So my parents are antique dealers, and they kind of travel around and do different shows and stuff. And so I did that with them for a while, and then I just started making my own stuff. Sorry. Establishing a client base, and people just liked my art better than the things I was selling. So I knew kind of intuitively that the system we had was weird, and I didn't align with it as far as the debt-based slavery system. And so that's something I figured out early. But then you always hear 9-11 is an inside job. And I was like, yeah, yeah, I probably was, knowing how corrupt our government is. But I never put together just how deep it goes as far as there being a dark occult elite class that really pulls the strings. And to be honest, man, it wasn't until the start of this shit that I woke up. You know what I mean? I just got plugged in at the beginning of this scam. Whenever I saw people in cars to get tests, I was like, man, this is bizarre. You know what I mean? It's so out of alignment with nature and everything natural. And I think it was just, honestly, it's like a trauma thing. It takes trauma for some people to wake up. And I think this was probably my trauma. And then once I figured out that there was a scam, I'm like, I have an addictive personality kind of thing. It's like once I'm on to something, I'm going 110. So that's where I've been since. [Speaker 3] (5:02 - 5:13) I hear you, bro. I mean, that's incredible that your key awakenings just happened through this process. And I mean, you've already obviously worked through so much, dude. So kudos to you 100%. [Speaker 1] (5:13 - 5:52) And the thing is, it's like a lot of people like this thing, this whole fucking whatever you want to call it. Scam has been the eye opener. So it's really cool to hear that. I've been having conversations with a lot of people. And the same thing is like, yeah, last year was like the thing. I'm aware of some things going on, but what the fuck? Yeah. It's like I better get my shit in order real quick. It's like we're so far out of alignment with nature and reality that I figured out that just how far we were and how much work I had to do to get back to nature and godly things. [Speaker 3] (5:53 - 6:10) Absolutely, man. And I mean, what about Remy thrown in the deep end from the beginning? Got tied to Freemasonry. He's watching loose change in year eight. Yeah. Tell us about that, man. What was your perspective as a 14-year-old catching onto this? [Speaker 2] (6:10 - 10:22) So I think that a lot of it, there was already sort of like some groundwork that had been laid just because I think that, you know, so my mom is from Mexico and she was adopted. And then like, you know, that little part of the bio already heard that. And so she kind of, I think, maintained a sort of skepticism and was like a pretty analytical person. So she had put me on to like, you know, the concept of Freemasons being involved like heavily with society and the establishment of society. So I was already kind of like, oh, yeah, there's these like people that kind of just are just like running the game, whatever. And so then when I went on in 2001, when, you know, when the whole situation happened, I was like already like not really convinced. I showed up. I mean, it's like, of course, you know, everybody remembers these things so vividly. I walked into my class and then, you know, my teachers giving the whole speech about, oh, yeah, we think it was this person. And I was like, well, if they already knew who if they knew who it was already, then why didn't you know why? Why wasn't it, you know, couldn't have been stopped. And so, you know, I got a little bit I raised my hand and asked that question, you know, and kind of got, you know, reprimanded a little bit. So it was just like something's not right. I was I was I think that growing up also like with like a church background, I think I was kind of always like afraid of, you know, the end of times like eschatology was just like such a thing for me. So I was always like, oh, the end of the world, the end of the world, you know. So but like once I saw loose change, I was just like, OK, that all right. This sort of makes sense. Like I can I can see how the story that's being told doesn't really add up at all. And it's just, you know, I've always my my mom really had a huge part in encouraging me to think for myself. When I was younger, she was always just like, don't you know, you always think for yourself. You don't tell somebody what you what you need to believe. And like even though like my family was like church, you know, like both sides of my on my mom and my dad's side were Methodist pastors. But my mom wasn't really religious. So she kind of like encouraged us to like ask questions. But then I started watching like Jordan Maxwell videos around the same time. Like it was like when the Internet was like fresh with like being able to find videos like it was like pre YouTube, I think, too. But it was so I was like it was like finding like these videos on probably like Google video of some type. I don't know. And so I started seeing like the symbolism stuff being broken down. And that was probably only within like a year of seeing that loose change video. So I was like, OK, like and I was really big into like mythology growing up. Like my my mom got me like a book of just Greek and Egyptian mythology, like all the different, you know, characters, gods, goddesses and all that. And so for me, understanding like that, there's like a symbolic nature to things. And like understanding that these archetypes represent something, being able to like interpret that and like the average, you know, everything, everyday, you know, business and and, you know, government, you know, building or the clothing that's being worn, all this stuff. I was just like, OK, it all really kind of hit me and made sense pretty early on. And it's been just a matter of like contextualizing and like furthering my understanding of, I guess, the mechanisms of that and what that means and what you know how to how to deal with it. I guess it's been a long time and it was a lot. So I was very anxious about this for like five, 10 years. Yeah. And I mean, that was just the beginning because then there was like the whole, you know, there was like the whole the whole like the 2010 is so I almost converted to Orthodox Judaism. I got really into that. So I was studying like, you know, ancient mythology and ancient languages like Hebrew and Greek and stuff like that. And my my my grandfather that adopted my mom when she moved to the US, he gave me like books on like the Mayan language and he like gave me a copy of the Koran. And so that was, you know, at the end of high school going into college. And then I started studying even more so about like the, you know, the occult nature of of things even further, because to me it was just all Freemasonry. And then I started to realize, oh, it's like a lot more. [Speaker 3] (10:22 - 10:44) Definitely a lot more bro. And I mean, you said it best, it's the symbology that they weaponize against us, right? And it's only when we don't know what the symbology is. It's so easy to just assume everything occult is evil and bad, right? But I think the way we empower ourselves is by understanding the symbology for ourselves. They're weaponizing against us. Why wouldn't we look into what that pertains, you know? [Speaker 1] (10:44 - 11:33) There's one of my favorite quotes is by Manly P. Hall. And it's when the human race learns to read the language of symbolism, a great veil will fall from the eyes of man. And, you know, I think that's why it's so deep. Some of these esoteric thinkers and researchers, you know, you bring up, you bring up Jordan Maxwell. You know, there's guys like Michael Dezarian and other people of that nature that like this has been part of their work. They've been exploring this nature and really looking at symbology in depth and how these different organizations, these different groups, you know, that come from ancient sects, you know, how they utilize symbols to, you know, to lay their claim on the planet, to influence humanity. So it's really fascinating. It's cool that you got into it at a young age. [Speaker 2] (11:33 - 12:00) Yeah. Yeah. And linguistics was the other huge part of that, too. And it like tied hand in hand because I'm like understanding the symbol and then understanding where it came from and then understanding how the word like how a lot of words have like morphed into like common usage that come from the same kind of like bedrock of, you know, like symbolic language. So, yeah, it's, you know, it just it's like a Russian nesting doll. Yeah, definitely, man. [Speaker 3] (12:01 - 12:21) I want to ask you this, like looking back now and knowing what, you know, regarding specifically 9-11. Right. How do you perceive that? Was that what you see as a mass trauma, trauma inflicting events? Do you see that as the primary purpose of primary purpose of all that? Or what's your perspective on 9-11 looking back now? [Speaker 2] (12:22 - 13:54) Me or? So I think that it was like kind of a multilayered, I guess, a trauma event. And then also enacting a certain ritual numerologically. And then also just like the actual, you know, the actual image of what was being represented, like the breaking down of the two pillars and sort of like restructuring. And, you know, there's there's so much in it and especially the numerology. And I think that the trauma is is part of that aspect of ritual that's done by, you know, these, you know, occult, dark occult priests. It's so it's definitely it was definitely like, I think, a trauma ritual that was kind of fortified by symbols that we had already been kind of exposed to for a long time. And then it really it really strengthened the image within the overall like collective consciousness. And it's yeah, like I think that the trauma was sort of how they got it to how they created sort of the the bind that that was that was really put into place at the time. And I think it was, you know, and I think that there's obviously there's a lot of times when that happens, but I think that was a very. That was a pivotal one. It was it was like ready for the new era, you know, and it's right after the new millennium started. Yeah, I definitely think that that trauma aspect of it was kind of an integral to the entire trajectory. [Speaker 3] (13:55 - 14:14) And I mean, it's crazy how much like we were seeing all the time, but how much predictive programming was was put in place around 9-11 after the event happened. And now look, then looking back and you see all the different cartoons, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. How much they primed our subconscious on so many levels for that trigger event to change absolutely everything, you know? [Speaker 1] (14:15 - 14:21) Have any of you seen the it was on YouTube. It was the how back to the future predicted 9-11. Have you ever seen that video? [Speaker 2] (14:22 - 14:23) Not that one. [Speaker 1] (14:23 - 14:46) No, I don't think I have either. If I get a chance, I'm going to find and email it to both of you. It's fucking trippy as hell, dude. Yeah. Anyways, I thought I'd do that. Are you going to break that down? No, I'm not going to break it down. I've seen it like two times and like years ago. So I just when we're talking about predictive programming and how our subconscious are primed, that just popped in my head. So I figured I'd ask if either of you have seen it. [Speaker 3] (14:46 - 15:19) Yeah. And that's more research to be done, I guess, on that. And this is the key thing, which, in my view, people need to get their head around. Right. Is that this war, it primarily is psychological. Right. That's that's what the target of all of this is, because as you guys know, right, nature goes on, life goes on. The systems of nature are unchanged by everything we're experiencing. This is like an overlay, which is simply maintained by us buying into it psychologically. Right. Yeah. What are your thoughts on that, Chad? [Speaker 1] (15:20 - 16:43) Yeah, they I mean, that's because, you know, nature is going to win out at some point and the truth will come out. But it's like they just keep layering, you know, asphalt over the truth. And whenever the truth starts sprouting up in the cracks, you know, they just try and relay it over and over again. And eventually, you know, it'll break down at some point. It'll reach critical mass and the whole thing will fall apart. But it's like I think how long until that happens is largely up to us because, you know, we have free will. And, you know, people like us that know, I think, have a moral obligation to speak up and act, you know, rather than just hoping somebody is going to come save us. Yeah. So what was it for both of you, Chad? I guess we'll segue just from what you just said. What was it that made you be like, hey, listen, I'm going to I'm going to step up. And, you know, like you had a piece of your or a couple red pills in the beginning of 2020. And you're like, I'm not just going to sit here and make art and live my life and be a good father and be a family man. But I'm also just going to, you know, share information in the way that I do to help plant seeds of growth. Well, I went through like all of Mark Passio's work. I went through like all he has like two hundred and forty podcasts or something like that. [Speaker 2] (16:43 - 16:44) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (16:45 - 19:01) And a lot of hours. Yeah. And I take notes the whole time. And by the end of that, basically, if you don't have the will to become a teacher yourself, then you haven't got the message and you've wasted your time. You know what I mean? And by the end of that, I had a solid foundation to stand on to then go back out and teach this stuff to others. At least from a fundamental perspective. And so that was my trigger, you know, to actually put my face in front of the camera and speak the truth. And, you know, I have I now have three children. And it's like, what am I going to do? Am I going to leave them a world that's pure slavery? Like, no, you know, I'll sacrifice if it comes to that. I'll sacrifice myself so we might have a better future for our children and, you know, and your kids and, you know, everybody, the humanity as a whole. You know, so I just as. I just can't know these things and not act, you know, to know and not to act is to not know at all. Yeah, I hear you there, man. Like, personally speaking, like I spent a lot of years like hoarding knowledge and information. And then it was like when the right time to step more into my power and stop being a little punk and actually like put myself out there as opposed to like, what are people going to think? I might lose some friends. Oh, I'm going to like post something on Facebook. I can think back in the days and then one person says something mean to me and it's like, oh, let me just go hide back in my cave now. But that shit's real. You know, it's like I get it. And you have you have to like as an individual, you have to dance with that. You have to come to grips with it. And the more you do it, it's like you build the resilience, you build the confidence, you build. You know, like the first time I posted something about, you know, injections, you know, was like a while ago. And I remember someone coming on being like, you're a baby killer, you know, and I think I like went in my room and cried for like like seven hours. You know what I mean? And it's just like and then in the early days, too, it was just like I have to I have to get into arguments and spend 18 hours on Facebook. [Speaker 2] (19:01 - 19:02) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (19:02 - 19:22) Or dialogues with people because they have to know my they have to know what I'm thinking. And it's like I couldn't be farther from that now. It's just like much more grounded and center. And I do what I do and I say what I say and I live my life and I don't get all jacked up because someone disagrees with me. But also, like, I'm sorry, go ahead, Remy. [Speaker 2] (19:23 - 20:25) No, yeah, I was gonna say that was a huge, a huge thing for me to get through because I had been involved in music for, you know, for so long. And there's so much reputation riding around like as a musician, like and that kind of like desire for celebrity, you know, approval or whatever that is, you know, and this is something I was thinking about today. And I'm like, it's weird because it's like as as a as like a public figure, you like represent something, but it's it's always so vague. And so I was always just like, it's whatever, you know, political thing you're supposed to do at the time. So I was always just kind of dancing around it. And like, I would like say things little by little here and there. And but it was just because I was so terrified of people being like it would take away from my plays or it might get me like kicked off of gigs or whatever, you know, so I was just like that was that was definitely like a big. Yeah, that's that that whole internal struggle that really, really like feeds of the stagnancy. It's it's not it's not good for yourself. It's not really good for anybody either, really. So it's like, yeah, it's definitely a struggle. [Speaker 1] (20:25 - 22:20) And it's real and it's part of this hero's journey. It's not like you go from like being afraid to say anything and then all of a sudden there's no like you just flip 100% to the other side. I mean, you I guess maybe some people do, but you still have to have that inner struggle between these different like contradicting parts of you that want you to behave in a certain way. You know, let's stay under the radar. You know, it might impact your relationships. It might impact your career, etc. And then the other part of you is like, fuck that shit. Like, I want to be I want to live a heroic life. I want to stand up for truth. I want to speak my mind, you know, and and I think that's something that we have to grapple with. And especially as like, as men, that's a whole nother thing. Like, what does it mean to like be the live the heroic, heroically masculine life? You know, when we're involved with a culture that's trying to like destroy masculinity to like overly feminize everything and have you not stand up and to poison you on many different levels, psychologically, spiritually, physically. And so it's like, you know, the reason a lot of this has been allowed to happen is because of what has been occurring, what they've been doing to the masculine, this war on masculinity, because fucking lions would not stand for this shit. It would end. And then you can go into historically and talk about all these wars, you know, all these wars like that. They've sent all these like hardcore alpha men that have been going out there wanting to fight, defend their country, just die, die, die, die. And even sports on another on another level. It's like you have these bad ass strong men and they're like fighting for things that like, listen, I value sports. I was an athlete growing up. I like watching sports on occasion. But at the same time, I just there was a great quote by Jason Kristoff recently that he shared where it's like these these bad ass physically gifted strong men are fighting for things and putting their energy towards things that don't really fucking matter in the grand scheme of things. While their country gets overtaken by tyrannous bastards. [Speaker 2] (22:20 - 22:26) Yeah, it's like it's like a fight for like this like abstract honor. You know, yeah. [Speaker 1] (22:26 - 24:12) So I'm curious your thoughts on that, Chad, like being a former athlete. I actually shared that same post, you know, and I've got Jason Kristoff's post. And it's crazy he had like, I'm a Miami Dolphins fan. So I love Cam Wake, bro. And he had Cam Wake up there. I was like, yo, man, it's all good. Yeah, no, man. I just, it's the modern day bread and circuses, you know, it's to keep the masses busy. And then, yeah, I totally agree that, you know, these are some of the strongest, you know, as far as physical strongest men that we've got in society and we've got them chasing a ball around, you know, and then they're tied to that paycheck. So they feel like if they speak, you know, then, you know, they're going to be looked down upon or, you know, maybe my paycheck will be cut off. And this is like, you know, you can be in retirement and you're still getting that pension. So, you know, what happens if you step out of line, you know, they're just married to that money because largely, man, I think a huge problem is, you know, one of the switches that flip for me was like, I value truth. More now, you know, truth is on the top of the totem pole for me. So, you know, if societal factors, you know, don't like it, then, you know, it's like, I don't really care because I value the truth because truth, if we align ourselves with truth, we get freedom and peace and, you know, more peaceful society. And if we don't, like we do now, we get exactly what we're seeing, just pure chaos and moral relativism and all kinds of ugly shit. [Speaker 3] (24:14 - 25:01) I was going to say, it's not just the money, it's the power of the herd that they weaponize as well. And this is the reason why primarily so many people are afraid of speaking out, right? Because they're stuck within this collective grip. But the more you do speak out, what people don't realize that you can actually disentangle yourself, right? Because it's just like this web that we're stuck within. But the more we get our machete out and start fucking saying the shit that actually matters, the more we can actually pull ourselves out, right? Same analogy as the crabs on the bottom of the crab bucket. You begin to actually climb your way out and you get psychological freedom from the herd as well. And you get the ability to actually be like, wow, I'm an individual and I can say what I want. And I no longer have this weight or this burden of worrying about who the hell is going to dictate to me. Right. And to me, that's so liberating. [Speaker 1] (25:01 - 25:55) Yeah. And also like the connections that are made. The four of us would not be here having this conversation if we were just like hiding in our closets being like, I mean, I would like to say something, but I don't know. I don't know if I do say that, then someone's going to be upset with me. So it's like when you stand in your truth, let's say just use the analogy of like be the lion in your life in some regard. OK, I'm not saying I'm the fucking lion in all every single area of my life. You know, what do you say? I mean, you know, you know what I'm saying? But but it's like it's like we do the best we can. And then when you do, you connect with kindred spirits and like minded people where you can grow together and get deeper and just keep keep going on that heroic journey. Anyways, you were going to say something before, Remy. [Speaker 2] (25:56 - 28:33) Oh, yeah. No, actually, Joel actually kind of said pretty much along the lines what I was going to say, because Chad was saying basically, you know, like he values, you know, you value truth. Then that's that matters more than what what this person or that person says, you know, like basically, you know, like fleeting opinions or. And I think the point that I was just going to kind of add in was that like if you if you find it within yourself to to recognize that that there is a that there is a truth regarding like any grand scale truth or or there's a specific thing that you're dealing with, a certain claim that you're trying to assess as being is this actually as what it's being presented as or is it not? If you recognize, oh, well, this isn't actually what I'm being told it is. And then you also deny yourself that ability to speak and, you know, in harmony with that, which you understand about that you're assessing, then you really weaken yourself. So to be able to, like, recognize that and then act in accordance with that, that's really that's a way of of developing your strength and using your actual willpower, you know, so it's like it strengthens character. Yeah, exactly. And and you know, I do think that like this this concept of like really emasculating people is it really is it's it's something that it it is it is pretty prominent. And, I mean, I grew up I didn't grow up playing sports, but I grew up in a pretty rough area. So, you know, like learning how to fight my way through things was a as a, you know, a key part of my of my, my upbringing. And having been taught that by people who were really just a lot they didn't take shit, you know, they didn't take shit and they didn't take people, you know, stepping on them. I was, you know, I was taught respect by a lot of these people I was taught self respect and, you know, know, know a certain limit of, you know, what is just, you know, like you don't, there's a certain level of degrading that you don't do but there is also like a way that you learn how to kind of stand up for yourself, but also operate in a certain, certain level of, you know, mutual respect that I mean some people don't take it from that. But I think that this, this, this world that that we're kind of cultivating is really just it's breeding it's breeding this sort of like a weakness and that that herd mentality is it is, is, I think is both a result of and also a, it's kind of like a vicious cycle that causes that like that, that you shut yourself up you shut yourself off and you and you just like weaken your resolve and you work, weaken your conviction, I think that. [Speaker 3] (28:33 - 29:17) And it's like, it's super easy to blame the abuser in all circumstances right but what part in us, have we not recognized to allow ourselves to be abused, you know, and I feel like that's where the gaze needs to turn because we're only able to be taken advantage of because of the internal compromises that we have within ourself. If there wasn't prey, there would be no predator, and there's only prey because we have these blind spots that exist. And that's literally how they pull the strings, you know, so obviously the inner work is first and foremost in taking away the bait so these guys can no longer manipulate us on the level that they're doing. [Speaker 1] (29:19 - 30:02) Man, can I just interject there, because that reminded me of what a Cesarean thing whenever he said, you know, whenever you, what have we attracted these people to us, you know, if there's maggots, it's dead meat if it's rats it's a sewer, you know, it's like, yeah, and it's like everybody wants to externalize and say look what is being done to me, but they don't want to look in the mirror and say okay what am I doing on an individual level to help, you know, perpetuate this. Absolutely. I would say that's where it comes back to personal responsibility because sit there we can blame others but at the end of the day look in the mirror what role am I playing in this dynamic in this master slave dynamic, and what am I going to do about it to shift it and get out of it. [Speaker 3] (30:03 - 30:14) And this is triggering for a lot of people but what if it turns out that they have every single right to do what it is that they're doing. You know, we can all make our own choices, we can all, we can all. [Speaker 1] (30:15 - 30:17) Are you talking about like the people. [Speaker 3] (30:18 - 30:30) Yeah, the controllers what it was like audit like what if on some level they have the right to make their own decisions and do what they're doing and do whatever they're doing is to me this is the way that we need to think about it if we're going to take personal freedom and personal responsibility for ourselves. [Speaker 2] (30:30 - 32:19) I would, I would sort of both agree and then also challenge maybe the wording that I wouldn't say that I wouldn't say that they have the right to do it they have the ability to do it. So it's like it's kind of like the idea of it's like when we say we have the right to do something it's like well the action is either a wrong action or right action and a right action is something that doesn't result in the, in the direct harm of another being right so it's like, they definitely have the ability. Because I think that that it's, it kind of goes back to what you what you said about. There wouldn't be there wouldn't be a predator if there wasn't a if there wasn't prey. Right. So it's like, so we're sort of, I think that we're the average population is more responsible for creating this dynamic of treachery. Because it's not even really that they the people on top are doing it they're really not they're giving us the idea. And then people say oh well hey there there's an idea, they use the symbols they use the they use kind of like the program they put it in. And then people are like, oh yeah I'll do that. And so it's like, in this, so like that's what I'm saying like I agree with you, and I just, I just think it's it's more so like, yeah, they have the ability, and then we have. We have the, I say we in general of humanity are enacting it, and then so it's like it now because it's because it's a society based around illusion and delusional external like external belief in authority that it, it's sort of, it creates this this chaos because it isn't right it's just, it's, it's, it's not true it's not correct it's not right it's it's completely delusional so. Yeah, I think, yeah, if that makes sense, you know what I mean. Absolutely it does and I'll take your correction on the wording I agree. [Speaker 1] (32:22 - 32:41) And I love and I love that you just did that too because it's like, we just here having conversation all of us man we're keeping it real, we're dialoguing it's not like oh hey like you know I can't say you know fuck it who cares we just speak what's on our mind. Something that you don't agree with or if I say something, then come right out and say yo that's some whack shit man like this is what I think. [Speaker 2] (32:41 - 32:42) Yeah, I don't mean any disrespect man. [Speaker 1] (32:44 - 32:54) There's no disrespect at all dude like Joel and I have conversations like it'll say something. And it's like, we agree we don't agree like. [Speaker 3] (32:54 - 32:57) I've already got the first verse to my diss track written for Remy. There it is right there. [Speaker 1] (32:58 - 33:16) Like, you know, like again we talked about herd mentality like this isn't like we're four people right now we don't need to be any herd mentality and be like oh we're on a podcast like let's all, let's all get along like who cares like I'm a, I'm a man I'm an adult like, like, I don't need to be like coddled, you know. I'm grateful. [Speaker 2] (33:16 - 34:07) My friends were like that like my closest friends, like, because I was in like a rap group. And there was, it was no, no shots were held back like it was, it was yelling, like no you're wrong you don't make any sense you know what I mean like and I'm really grateful that that's the kind of dynamic that me and my friends had and they're they're still to this day like my pretty much you know they're still my closest friends, not in proximity but in, in, you know, familial relation but it was very much so like that it was like, No, you're wrong to this day. Well, I'll call him like, I think this now you sound like no that's crazy, you know, so that's definitely that's definitely like a missing a missing piece and I think in another sort of, I think, representation of the loss of that, that willingness to be forward and be, you know, like respectfully aggressive when necessary. [Speaker 1] (34:07 - 34:34) It's a very it's a masculine quality okay because everyone's so worried in this culture like, I'm going to hurt someone's feelings I got to walk on eggshells I'm going to be canceled, you know, like, like, I mean I grew up in the East Coast man so it's like we talk shit all the time, you know, and so I don't know, I just I've been valuing it more and more as I've as I've like evolved is keeping it real and be able to have a dialogue with someone who doesn't agree with you. [Speaker 3] (34:35 - 35:16) Yeah, I mean it's Bruce Bruce Bruce Lee called it I think temerity right and it's the ability to say to the world, no, you're wrong. I'm right, you know, I mean, and actually have that courage and that's tenacity of having your own viewpoint and having your own stance and not being so easily crumbled you mean by by the ideas of someone else. I think that's really necessary in the discovery of truth and in this process is to take can take conviction in what you're saying, and if down the track you turned out you turn out to be wrong and you got to eat some humble pie, then do so, you know what I mean but you can't you can't know what you know and believe what you believe, if you're going to question it to every Tom, Dick and Harry that you know I mean comes at you so yeah for sure. [Speaker 1] (35:17 - 36:52) And I think it's important that, like, you know, for people like us I think it's important that you know and other people that know what's going on I think it's important that we are polarized and in extra almost an extreme and be because we, we know what's going on. And so, you know, just being wishy washy and not firm in your, you know what you're saying, I think isn't going to do a lot, you know, be very impactful as far as getting truth out there and getting, you know, the message out for people. And the truth seeking journey. It's not this like linear process. It's like, I read an article. I now know the truth. Like, it's like, like you go down a rabbit hole and like oh shit like that doesn't really fully resonate Oh, but that person says, Oh, you know what I mean like you. That's part of it and you have to be willing to get in the ring like this is what's part of the journey it's part of the battle it's like it's like grappling with ideas, you know, and and I think a lot of people aren't willing to do that because either they haven't built the inner strength they haven't done the inner work they don't feel secure in themselves, or you know they don't want to, they weren't educated that way they weren't conditioned that way they've been, they've been indoctrinated by culture to just go along their family. I mean all the reasons they don't have the time, whatever the case may be but for whoever has chosen to go on this path, like, cool. Kudos I you know I'll give you like a high five because it's, it's, you know, it's work. [Speaker 3] (36:52 - 37:37) And also it's it's purely individualistic, right, because if it's shared with another it's not really the truth in any kind of significant way, in my view, if we're looking for it to be affirmed by someone else, you know, and what I'm saying often now a little bit in the, this I guess quote unquote truth community is that there are little pockets of groupthink that still pop up where everyone has to be be on the same page about every single issue, be it, you may be a germ theory, be it flat it is you mean, and if it's not shared, then all of a sudden there's this dissonance created. But this is why I'm a firm believer in individualism as the path to us actually moving anywhere from this, you know, if either of you got anything to say on that, go for it. [Speaker 2] (37:39 - 38:25) I mean I absolutely agree on that. That's like, it's a sick, it's like a cyclical purification process right like it's not, it's not linear. So yeah, so this, this really has to you when you understand that you have to take into consideration that you do have to look back in, you look out you look in you look out you look in you put you know you put your your you put the information that you've taken in, you process it and you put it out. And you try it again, you know, so that's like the trivia method. So it's like the input, then you process and you put it out, and then you do it again. It's like I've, I've had to multiple times many times over my lifetime had to, you know, say, Oh, well, that part was wrong. But what about this? Does this hold the weight and then you run it through the, you know, through the fire again. Right. [Speaker 3] (38:25 - 38:43) And as a student of symbology is like the lemniscate, right, as seen on the magician's head right here. Some people refer to it as the infinity symbol, but it's that it's that going out extending yourself and coming back in and assessing actually whether that was true right then heading back out and that's, that's simply all that is and I mean on the most essential level. [Speaker 2] (38:43 - 41:46) That's our nature in general, right? That is, yeah, and that's crazy because you show me that symbol right there that's very similar to like the, the, the, the toroidal, toroidal hyperboloidal, you know, interplay. So, I mean, on the most fundamental level that is the that is the foundation of the physical manifest reality is the, the toroid hyperboloid and it's that, that, that process of, of compression and, and expansion repeatedly. It's a constant, constant flux between the center point, which is the, you know, the, the, the, the, the fulcrum, you know, the center point and then a bounce back between the two sides. And as far as that being so that something I wanted to sort of go back and touch on as you said they're really the only the only solution is that individual solution, and that the individual. I like to and I've brought this up before and other and other like talks that I've had with people individual meaning not divided in meaning not like the inability right so in prefix not and then dividere to divide to split up right so an individual is truly not split up they're not they're not separated from themselves. And as a result of not being separated from yourself, you're also understand how your actions are fully integrated with the rest of the manifest, you know, realm, whether you know humans and animals and plants and everything. And so if you're unable and you're constantly externalizing things and saying we need to do this we need to do this and then you're really not going to get anywhere because you're constantly what that is is sort of like that's kind of trying to fix the problem with retrospection, like when you say we're doing this you're sort of looking at what we have done and trying to fix it. Um, when you say all right well I as an individual need to look at what do I believe, how, how are the things that I believe congruent or or incongruent with what is manifest right now do I believe that this type of, of, you know, system is legitimate and what is that system based off of and then you kind of narrow it down to its fundamental claim, and you kind of base it down to that and you say all right well, am I acting in accordance with that. And first of all, does that have any, any legitimacy and am I have I been acting in accordance with the claim, and if the claim is not true, then I've been acting in a way that's untrue, and you really can't do you can't do that for anybody else you have to do that for yourself, you have to be your own leader that's why it's like the end that you have the internal monarch and the external an arc you know that it's the, the I rule me but I rule no one else and that's until people understand that we've been living, largely in an inverted version of that where we have internal anarchy we have no ruler within. So therefore we try to rule everybody out here whether it be oligarchy monarchy, whatever so I think that the, the, the arcade the, the, the ruler on being internal is really important, and really the only solution. I agree with that statement. [Speaker 3] (41:46 - 42:53) Absolutely, man. I mean this this segues us perfectly into what I want to get into in the second half of this episode for the member side I want to get into the etymology of the natural law side and also how through understanding this stuff we can take our power back. So to our public audience we're going to want to let you go here. Thank you so much for tuning in. We'd love to see you on the other side and join our community on Patreon. If not, Remy Vega here and Chad Kilgore go check both these guys out on Instagram and they're both sharing some pretty crucial stuff. At this point in time to our members will see you on the other side. Thanks guys. All right, so our members, welcome back to this incredible dialogue on here for the truth episode 28 with Chad and Remy, Remy, we left off with you kind of segueing us into international law and the mechanisms of a man owning himself and being himself. Can you give us a little basic introduction and definition basically first what is natural law to you, how do you perceive that. [Speaker 2] (42:54 - 45:55) Yeah, um, so I see, I really tried I see it as a very simple as a very simple fundamental so natural law is just basically the inherent cause and effect. The static inherent cause and effect dynamic of, of the created universe or and and that which underlies the created universe. So when, when I'm saying natural law, I'm not really referring to anything other than the the fundamental. I wouldn't even say objective because necessarily like there's objective and subjective but maybe transcendent fabric that holds this all together and so natural law. In regards to, you know, the way how I brought up earlier with like magnetism right or what I brought up the the toroid and the hyperboloid, which is represented through the the dielectric field and dielectric the dielectric field being magnetism which is the I don't want to get too technical on that but basically so that's that's it right so there's a very, there's like a simple law that that sort of dictates that when, when the the unpotentiated ether manifest into dielectricity and then terminates, then it creates, it creates magnetism and then there's a constant interplay between that. Or when we see, or in thermodynamics, you have you know you have the entropy and the centripetal you have the, the diffusion or the recollection of, you know, heat right. So it's the the fundamental dynamics that dictate every aspect of reality. Now, I think the part of it that is crucial to, to the understanding of human societies is the aspect of how that plays into human dynamics and human behavior. So when applied to, you know, heat, we see a certain immutable nature of law which just means underlying right law means to lie, it comes from the Proto-Indo-European root leg, which means to like to live beneath it's what it's the fundamental. So, in human, human society, the immutable and inherent cause and effect nature of human behavior so a certain act in human behavior, and a certain belief will have a each one each every action will have an inherent effect. And so, in other words, it's what we would understand as morality and morality also coming from the word. It's med, M-E-D-H, which means to measure. So there's, there's, it just morals are a proper measure which is why we call it a value right so to evaluating how your actions have an inherent effect within reality. So, natural law is simply in my breakdown, and how I've understood it holistically is it's the the fundamental principle dynamics of existence and how they relate to human behavior, if that clarifies it. [Speaker 3] (45:55 - 46:00) I'm glad you gave us the simple version at the end there. I was going to interject with the layman's version. [Speaker 1] (46:00 - 46:39) Yeah, exactly. So Chad like you want to add to that too I'm like listen to the beginning of that I'm like, I'm just like, I'm gonna have to research this a little bit more or what's the layperson's version so is that they are spiritual laws that govern the consequences of human behavior, you know, like, it's the cause to every effect that you see, you know what I mean so every behavior that you enact in the world, you're going to get. It's the deterministic aspect of free will, you know, yeah, so every behavior you're going to get a reaction back and natural law is what kicks you back that reaction. [Speaker 3] (46:39 - 46:49) So how has understanding natural law for you Chad changed the way you interact in your life and your understanding of being here in this reality. [Speaker 1] (46:50 - 47:44) It, it gives you like a foundation of, of morality, you know, you know that, like, any, any action you take that harms another sentient being is not a right, you know it's a wrong it's like it breaks down very easily. You know how you should behave in our world. You know what I mean and, and I think that if people knew that this was a real thing like it's a spiritual thing, or it's a thing that you're going to get a response for every action you take, you know, regardless of if you can see the correlation to it, you know, they may be behaving a little differently. You know, because you can't just hide from natural law, like you can't just well nobody sees me doing this like there's consequences for everything. Right, exactly. [Speaker 3] (47:44 - 47:44) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (47:45 - 47:45) Yeah. [Speaker 3] (47:45 - 48:24) And I mean this, this, this is one thing that you mean I discovered, I guess, in my own way just through my own shadow work journey without really diving deep into the natural law side of things. It's just, we believe for the longest time growing up that we can be as reckless as we want to be, you know, and there's anything to pay for that. But the more that we don't, I guess, adhere to natural law, then, would you say, to an extent that correlates to how deep our shadow work and our underworld journey and our underworld cycle is later on, you know what I mean, until we're ready to bring in the checks and balances and reconcile what we've created. [Speaker 1] (48:25 - 48:59) Yeah. Yeah. And Pacio puts it perfectly, you know, it's, he calls it the law of freedom, as morality increases, freedom increases, and as morality decreases, freedom decreases, you know, it's just we, we get out exactly what we put into it, you know, and, and exactly like you were saying, like people that avoid doing their shadow work are going to start manifesting things that are not going to be in alignment, you know, probably with, you know, true truth and good behavior and stuff on some level. So, um, yeah. [Speaker 2] (49:00 - 50:08) Nice. Yeah. And I think that like that plays into like the collective experience as much as it does the individual experience, because I think that when you're living really in dissonance with that, like you feel it, you know, because I mean, I, you know, I've, everyone's, everyone's invariance of it, everything, everybody waivers, you know, everyone waivers, we're all, we're all the way, we're the part that varies. And the more that you align with it, the better, but you feel it, you feel it when you're not, when you're not really acting like in a way that's really harmonious with the way things actually are, you know, and our, our, our, our job is to align our perspectives with it. It's, it's not really to, you know, to, to, to dictate it, but to, to, that's like the aspect of, that's the part of existence that requires the humility, you know? So, and like, yeah, I, I think you feel it. Cause I think that's Joel, it was kind of what you were saying. Like you're, you really, that you have to do that shadow work. The more that you ignore it, the more that deep, heavy darkness kind of builds up in you. And then, and then if, and then if you keep ignoring it, then everyone else is going to get that spill over too, you know? So it's kind of this, this feedback with you and everyone else, you know? [Speaker 3] (50:08 - 50:40) Yeah. And you're also gonna, I guess, on some level, create a reality around you that allows that shadow to continue to exist. And it continues to give you the opportunity to avoid doing that work because naturally that's, that's what you're going to create because you're not willing to go there. You know what I mean? So the people around you, the environments around you, your work life, your relationships, all of it is going to be dictated by the fact that, holy shit, I haven't looked at the bag of demons that are built in the corner over here. [Speaker 2] (50:41 - 51:10) Yeah, that's a really, that's a really cool observation. I've never really, you know, I've never really thought about it in that specific, you know, way, but that's, yeah, that's astute observation. Good sir. I'm glad I got my credit back with you. Hey man, Remi, remember that one time you got invited on the podcast and you were like... Remember you said he was wrong? [Speaker 1] (51:11 - 51:14) You gave him the Trump wrong. Wrong. Wrong. [Speaker 2] (51:15 - 51:16) Oh man. [Speaker 3] (51:16 - 52:20) All right, I'm out. But literally man, this is the reality of it, right? And because this was my personal experience. And also when we're willing to go through this journey and reconcile this, this is where intuition comes into the picture because that still voice, it's completely numbed and it's completely blocked out. We can't even hear it. We can barely hear it at all while we're carrying that bag. You know what I mean? But the moment we start paying attention and we do that one little thing to start clawing our way back into morality and clawing our way back into the center of the Lemniscate, then it becomes louder. Right? And really, now that I'm thinking about or feeling into this, that voice can be tied in perfectly to us just listening to natural law and listening to that inherent morality. We always know what the right thing to do is. Okay. Yeah. Always on, you mean, but it's hard to acknowledge what's right when we have to face the consequences that it bears on the pseudo self that we've created as a result of our ignorance. [Speaker 2] (52:23 - 52:29) Wow. Well said. Yeah, definitely. Chad, I don't want to hug. I don't want to do a mic hug. Hey, man. [Speaker 3] (52:30 - 52:34) We're here, bro. If you need to give him a sabre, go for it, man. Let's chat. You're asking us where you at. Come on, man. [Speaker 1] (52:35 - 55:06) I'm enjoying this right now. I could talk a lot other times, but right now I'm just enjoying what's going on. I guess what I will add to this, and we've talked about this before in other podcasts, is that when we talk about that whisper, that intuition, and it's different for everyone. I'm a student of human design, so I think each person has their own specific way to tap into their intuition, their own unique way of making decisions. And so I think that the more you take care of yourself, the more you work on – we keep talking about this inner work, this shadow work. The more we nourish our bodies and our minds and our souls the right way, it's like the right thing to do is so much closer to us than far away. We're like, oh, man, I don't even know. I'm lost. I've got to figure out everything. Someone tell me. And then it's like then you stop relying on you. You stop taking the reins of your own life and having that individualistic nature, and you're like, well, someone else tell me what to do. I can't hear the voice within, so maybe an external voice will come to me and tell me what to do. And it's like – yeah, again, it's like taking control of your life and being as healthy as you can on all levels. Health is not just, well, I ate this food today and I went for a run. There are so many things like what are you consuming, how are you spending your time, what kind of relationships are you in, etc., etc. So I think the more that – you know, Remy, you mentioned holistic, that word. The more you're approaching your health in a holistic manner and getting real with yourself that the right thing to do, the right way to act, the right way to be is just – it's just there. You just like – you just know it. Yeah, it's like we've been programmed and conditioned to just ignore that intuitive aspect. This one lady messaged me and was like, my doctor told me don't trust your instincts, trust the science. And like what – I mean what words could he have uttered that would have been more harmful to her? You know what I mean? They just want to program – externalize everything. Externalize your life might as well be the motto for the past few years. Are either one of you – are you familiar with human design at all or is that just completely you don't know what it is? I've never heard the term before. [Speaker 2] (55:06 - 55:07) Not really. [Speaker 1] (55:07 - 57:16) I only listen – I listen to a podcast of you talking about it, but that's it. Okay. Well, real quickly, I'm just going to bring it up. Human design is like there's so many tools out there that allow you and support you in really tuning into what your unique nature is. There are a lot of esoteric sciences out there. Human design is one that integrates other esoteric – four esoteric sciences, two modern sciences. Anyways, it operates under like knowing your time of birth, date of birth, et cetera. Anyways, the reason I want to bring that up is because we asked for your birth information. You guys and Joel actually pulled up your charts, and I won't go too into it. We could talk about that offline, but just from an intuition standpoint, which is there's something in human design called your inner authority, which is your decision-making process. So Joel, myself, and Remy, we're both emotional authorities. And so that means that – right? Yeah, we're solar plexus emotional authorities, which means that it's really – we're always existing in some sort of emotional wave. And so it's really important for us to allow ourselves to go through these waves before making decisions. So if we're at the height of the wave or the low of the wave, we shouldn't make a decision. We got to give ourselves time before we come to some sort of internal place of clarity around that. Okay, now for you, you're a splenic projector. So the spleen is that part of us that connects to that fight or flight, that instinct, the quickest thing. So what I would say to you, Chad, is when you have that feeling of like a – fuck no. It's almost like an animal. Like you're feeling into that like this is dangerous. This isn't right for me. You have to honor that. You have to go for that because if you allow things to get into the mind and you start playing this like – well, let me just start analyzing the pros and the cons. Like for you, that's not the right way to go. You have to honor that initial thing, that instinct. So what you just brought up, that story about this person, this doctor saying like ignore your instincts, trust the science, like I think that's like off in general. But especially to like a splenic type, it's like no, no, no. That's going completely against your nature. So I'm curious based on what I just said for both of you, how is that like played out at all in your life? So are you saying like – Sorry, I don't know if I got it all together. [Speaker 3] (57:16 - 57:53) Let me simplify this a little bit. Sorry, Chad. The way that you should make decisions, you need to honor your instantaneous thing that comes up. Whatever instantly comes to you is the right thing for you. Whereas for Remy, as an emotional, you need to make sure that you're not making decisions from the high point or the low point. If you wait 24 to 48 hours and you still feel the same way about something, then it's generally the right thing for you. Whereas if you make decisions from the top of the wave or the bottom of the wave, then you're going to often end up creating a cycle for you, which might not be particularly useful. [Speaker 2] (57:54 - 58:42) That's pretty interesting. Yeah, I definitely have that kind of characteristic to my decision making. Like I don't make very impulsive decisions. One impulsive decision I made was like I'm going to move to Pennsylvania and I like just moved out here like on a super quick notice. But that's a whole other thing. But yeah, I think that does play into it. That's pretty interesting. I have to look into this a little bit more. I'm sort of thinking of the wave component that you're explaining. I want to understand that a little bit more. I do study field theory, acoustics, audio engineering, and stuff like that all uses sound wave stuff. The wave nature of existence kind of intrigues me. [Speaker 1] (58:42 - 58:56) It's another thing that's cool that's out there that supports people on their journey. Some people don't need any of this shit. It's a cool thing to explore. I just wanted to bring it up because we were talking about that nature. [Speaker 3] (58:56 - 59:50) Anyways. Where I was going to go before this little segue was you know how I was talking about the concept of like the ignored shadow or the suppressed or the repressed shadow? Well, this is when savior programs come into play, right? And we're more likely to be looking for some kind of external hope or external savior when we're not willing to look at our own shit. And for mainstream culture, these saviors rock up as doctors and scientists and the vaccine and whatever it might be. But in the truth community, it shows up as 5D or Galactic Federation or Starseed Lightworker. We're going through some kind of big galactic shift that's going to save us all. But all that is rooted in the fact that you're not willing to look at your own shit. [Speaker 1] (59:52 - 1:00:43) Yeah, man. I totally agree. I totally agree. Like I was saying, it's like, you know, everybody wants to externalize rather than looking at themselves. And yeah, even within the truth community, though, it's like people go a quarter of the way up the mountain of truth and say, I will go no further because, you know, it's too dangerous. It's too scary or whatever. And, you know, we'll send somebody else up to go for us, you know, whether it's, you know, religion or, you know, psychological operations like Q or something, you know, Trump savior. I mean, yeah, it's people don't want to realize that they have the power within themselves, I think. And that's scary as shit to most people. And, you know, as soon as and to me is like, as soon as you come to that realization, it's very empowering. [Speaker 3] (1:00:44 - 1:01:26) Absolutely, man, because you do take the power back and you realize you're in control. And really, all it is that that next rung in the ladder is difficult to take because all of a sudden, it's equivalent to somewhere that you're not willing to go within yourself. You're only willing to go as far right but you're not willing to meet that part because that's what's necessary for you to keep on this path of truth, you know. And I mean, I say this every episode, but the great hermetic axiom as above, so below, as within, so without. This holds the keys to what we're discussing in terms of natural law, in terms of the lemniscate, which is that infinity symbol that I showed you before, right? The ancients knew this. It's always been there. It's so inherent to us. [Speaker 1] (1:01:27 - 1:05:01) Yeah. And again, it's like if you don't take personal responsibility, if you don't go fully up there, then you can always blame someone else. As opposed to like, hey, I'm responsible for the amazing things that happen in my life. And I'm also responsible in the things that didn't feel as amazing, you know, even though in my opinion, I go, well, no, that just can bring you closer towards living a life of truth is like, oh, this didn't work out well. This man, this relationship didn't work. But you know, are you going to sit there and victim mode? I mean, you can have a few moments. It's okay. It's not about like, no, no one's a victim. You're allowed to feel feelings and be like, this sucks. What the fuck? But then where do you ultimately end up living in? Where do you go from there? Like, you know what I'm saying? So it's like there's always opportunities for growth, opportunities for learning, and all the fucked up shit that happens. It's just whether or not you come from an ideology of like, I'm responsible, like I'm creating my own life and not in this like woo woo, like the secret new age way. I was gonna say in culture gives you every opportunity to offload that responsibility, you know, you know, whether it's just simply watching TV for eight hours a day and not thinking about it, piling it in the corner of shadow work to do later, you know, or, you know, they give you the political leaders, they give you all these celebrities, you know, they give you every opportunity to say, Okay, you know, I'm going to give that to them. You know, and, and like we were saying, man, it's, it's all just look in the mirror. Yeah, it's all you. You know, my, when I moved, I moved to Los Angeles over eight years ago, I was living in New York City for about eight years. And like, you know, I went through, I went through some dark nights of the soul, you know, I got into relationships that I probably wouldn't have gotten into in LA because they were bringing me closer to realizing certain things about myself. They fucking sucked, man, I had some endings that just sucked. And like, I had to be in it, I had to experience it. And I wasn't sitting there blaming things I allowed to take this pain and go, Okay, well, what can I learn about myself from this pain? What have I been ignoring? What have I been relying on? What have I been what stories have I been telling myself, you know, oh, shit, what went on in my youth went up, you know, I'm saying it was like, I took this and allowed it to go inwards ago. And I was like, Oh, man, like, wow, I was really like feeling lonely. And, and I was uncomfortable. And I'm seeking connection externally. And, and I wasn't really on my path of truth and art and creativity and healing. And, and so I allowed myself to get into these places that didn't support me. Now, ultimately, it guided me closer, I needed to have this experience, my soul needed to have these experiences in order to evolve and step up to the next level. You know what I mean? So it's like, what people what? It's like, are individuals willing to do that kind of introspection, that inner work where certain things happen in their life. And they go, instead of pointing the finger, and be like, Well, fuck that bitch, you know, she fucking she was mean, and she left me and she blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Or it's like, well, what role did I play in that? You know what I'm saying? Like, like, and it's like, again, it's so corny, you know, you hear it all the time. It's like this, like, we point one finger out there. And then oh, there's three ones. It's so true, though, you know, like, like, you know, you, you did this thing. And it's like, No, just be real with yourself. Like, oh, like, I, you know what I'm saying? So I'm curious, like, in your lives during your rites of passages, like, you know, where did where did that come up for you? You know, where it's like, it was it's easier, you wanted to maybe blame someone, but you had to be real with yourself and look in the mirror and go, What role am I playing in this experience? And how things are playing out for me? [Speaker 2] (1:05:03 - 1:05:04) Remy? [Speaker 1] (1:05:04 - 1:05:04) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:05:05 - 1:09:32) Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. All right. So I think, I mean, for me, personally, I, it was like, it was a lot of interpersonal relationships where it was just like, Alright, I have a, you know, not a great, you know, I spoke earlier about, you know, some good lessons that I learned from from my, you know, from my mom, but there's not really a great relationship there. And I, that's something that I sort of kept on allowing to happen in the relationships that I would start and, you know, but go on longer than needed to. So I was, you know, I was allowing myself basically to get trampled upon, but I was always like, Oh, I just can't find a nice lady, you know, I'm like, but it's like, No, I was really, I was really, like, kind of encouraging it to a certain extent. And I was just letting myself get stepped on. And it was, it was something that I had to look at myself. And it was, you know, about five, six years ago. And I was just like, Alright, well, I can't keep on getting in these stupid relationships that I know, at the beginning, I know. But then I say, Ah, shut up, go back there into the, into the subconscious again. And I'm just gonna, I'm gonna try to make it work. I'm like, No, I knew. And so it's like, Okay, cool. Yeah, that's a relationship thing there. How does that, how does that play into it? Well, if you never learned how to look at even just a simple romantic relationship that you're in and recognize, well, I've done something to kind of encourage this behavior and to perpetuate it, and then in fact, run for it and run to it in like, and say, Come back, come back, come back, you know, if you can't even go that far, well, shit, how do you think you're gonna like present some type of plan to save the world? You know, like, that's, that's absurd. And it's, I think somebody brought this up. And it was it was in reference to like, Karl Marx, you know, it's like Karl Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto. And he's like, Don't worry, guys, I got this big ass idea. I'm writing this book about it. And everybody's gonna be all good. And I got the whole plan. And then it's like, you go look at his family history. And it's like, he was like, abusive. He's an alcoholic is his kids hated him. And it's like, this is a perfect example of that, you know, it's like, all right, well, I'm just gonna Yeah, I'm gonna worry about that over there. All this over here. And you never do anything, you never do anything internally. And, and you like, you know, you're ignoring your you're ignoring your intuition. And I think something that I think Joel said it earlier is that no, no, you know, it wasn't. It was your asthma is I'm saying that right? You're awesome. Yeah, you're awesome. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's cool name. Anyway, um, it's, you said something along the lines of like, you, you stop hearing that voice inside. And then you hope someone else says it. And you hope someone else says it for you. And it's like, you they're either not gonna say it. Or if they say it, and you don't recognize it, as being actually, you know, in harmony with what is actually being said to you within, if you don't recognize, oh, wait, it's at the end of the day, I still do have to hear that from within. And I still have to, it still has to be acted acted upon from within. It's like, so that's happened with me in relationships. That's happened with me in in my religious journey, you know, going from this religion to that religion, and always wanted the religion. I was like, Oh, I'm Christian. No, I will do Christianity came from Judaism. And then I was like, well, if not, I will do neither of those. Well, maybe, you know, maybe Islam or Sufism. And I've learned a lot from these things. And I've learned there, it wasn't just like, oh, I'm gonna throw the whole thing out. It's like, I learned a whole bunch of different lessons from them. And a lot of them stuck through me stuck through with me. But I was just doing that whole, oh, this system is going to be the thing that saves me. And this system is going to be that thing that saves me. And then it, you know, turns out that it wasn't that and it was and it's not even just like, I'm gonna save me me. And it's like, me, Remy, this guy, it's like, no, it's really like, the thing that is the the signal that creates the person that is me that transcends this, and actually everybody is connected to, that's actually the thing that you have to go inside to find. And then you find that it's really outside the realms of time and space in general. But that's where like, kind of in, you know, the as within so without, and I've had to recognize that in so many different levels, and I'm still having to, I mean, there's still belief systems and understandings of things that I'm, you know, that I'm, I'm elementary at and getting deeper into, and then I have to say, Well, I was wrong about that. And if I keep on thinking, Oh, I was right about that, then where am I going to go? You know, where am I going to go next? So that's been, you know, every day. Yeah, man. Yeah, that's right. [Speaker 1] (1:09:33 - 1:13:48) And yeah, man, what do you what do you have to say in terms of your own journey? And, and you can think about whatever you want. But I'm even curious, even just like that transition, because you were, you know, you were you were, you know, playing football, you're auditioning for some teams, you know, whatever, whatever, you know, like, how did that? How did that process go for you? Or you were just like, this thing that I've been doing my whole life, this thing where probably people were projecting on to me, like, Oh, you're gonna be X, Y, and Z. And then it's like, No, I'm not that I'm dead. Yeah, yeah, man, that was my identity, you know, for 20 some years, you know, my name and football just went hand in hand. And so, you know, whenever, whenever that died, it was like, Okay, well, what the hell am I going to do now? And now I'm gonna have to do some soul searching and see, you know, why I'm really here and things like that. And so yeah, it was that transition time from basically, you know, peddling used furniture, you know, from, from being a professional athlete to then to now being an artist was involved a lot of soul searching and figuring out who I am. And I think I've, I feel more myself now than I ever did whenever I was playing football, you know, I enjoyed it. But at some level, I still feel like I was, you know, doing it because that's what I was supposed to do in the eyes of other people, you know. But man, as far as I wanted to touch on this. So before I left college, me, me and some friends got together and we decided we're gonna do a mushroom trip. And that that'll force you to look at some shit, you know what I mean? Like, talk about bringing the shadow work that that makes you look at your my college life, like, wow, I went through four years of being an asshole, you know what I mean? But that kind of, you know, that kind of blew the doors off of, like, reality for me. And like, I was like, man, we are, you know, that was like the time I realized that we're, we're not living right. You know, so I can't say I got the message fully like, you know, I wish I could say I did that. And then like everything was perfect after that. But no, it's been it's definitely not linear, man. It was Yeah, ongoing process, bro. Yeah, it's like you have those moments for whatever reason, you know, like, for some people, you know, like psychedelics have played a huge role in that just like, where there's that crack, and then something comes through. And it's like, aha, so this is how I've been, this is how I've been living my life. This is the impact I've been having on, on the people around me, you know. So you have that shift in awareness. But then what do you do about it? You know, because awareness is awareness. There's no action in it. But what do you do then with that new level of awareness? How are you going to make the changes in your life? How are you going to move forward differently? So yeah, it's really cool, man. I mean, that's radical self honesty, dude, and humility, and like, and then feeling the pain of the realization of those things. That's key to, you know, it's not just a cerebral process. Well, you know, my mom did this, and my dad did that. And then that's why I did this. And it's like, no, like, fuck, man. I was a fucking dick to my ex-girlfriend, man. Like, I did some fucked up shit, you know, like, and then to like, feel that. And then how does that then shift you on this entire level, like all the cells in your body that like, cause you to then, you know, alter your behavior in a certain way? You know what I mean? Like, that's the true embodied work. That's the shadow work. It's not just up here above the head. It has to be systematic, whole thing. And that's unity consciousness, when your thoughts, emotions, and your actions are all synced up together. You know, so many people think and feel one way, but they don't act in the way they're thinking and feeling. And so they're not, they're not synced up, you know? Yeah. Or they, they're aware of why they do the things they do or why certain things happen in their life, but then the same thing continues to happen. And it's like, well, what do you, how are you going to change things up? [Speaker 2] (1:13:48 - 1:15:13) So like, there's no change in action under those cases. It's like, yeah. So it's like understanding and you feel it, but you don't really ever change how you act. That's really interesting. I was just kind of taking it, which you said there's, I, you know, cause I'm, I don't want this whole, this whole thing. It's like, all right. I started talking about this stuff suddenly in like 2020. And I started saying, Hey, you know, I think it's about time that I share what I know and what I've learned. But at the same time, it's like, I'm still, you know, I don't even, there's a whole bunch of stuff that I still have to, I'm still, I'm still learning how to process my emotions a lot. I'm a bottler, you know what I mean? So it's like, so it's like, I can't get out here. And you said, it's not all just a cerebral thing. And I'm like, for me, a lot of times it is a very, very cerebral thing, primarily a cerebral thing. But I think, you know, lesson to me from this conversation is sometimes, you know, you gotta just, you gotta, you gotta let the, you gotta let the, the, the feelings come up to, you know, cause I'm a very, like, I'm a very head. I think, and I feel it. I make sure that I make sure that it lines up. I make sure that I apply my compass, you know, the, the compassion, the, the, does this, is this going to be something that can hurt somebody, but I don't let myself feel it enough. And I think that that's kind of like a, a lesson of, well, Hey, you just asked like, Hey, where's one of those moments where you pointed the finger and you, and you're right now, I'm just like, kind of came to that realization. I'm like, Oh, well, you know what, honestly, like, sometimes I don't like let myself feel it enough. Like I don't let my, you know, and, and that can, that can kind of disconnect you from communication with people sometimes too. [Speaker 1] (1:15:13 - 1:15:40) I think, I mean, I'm a, I'm a body worker by trade. That's one of the, one of the things that I do. And then I'm all about like, somatic awakening, somatic intelligence, and really tapping into the subconscious through the physical body and doing really deep physical work. So these repressed emotions and things can come up to the surface. So for me, that was game changing that changed things up for me. Um, so yeah, man, come out to fucking California, bro, you know, do some deep work. [Speaker 2] (1:15:40 - 1:16:34) Yeah, man, I do want to get back to the home state again. I'm like, honestly, a little bit, like, I'm like, I'm freaked out about traveling a little bit, you know? And I'm like, I know I'm like, cannot live in a state of fear, but it's like, all right. It kind of freaks me out to travel. It makes me think like, what if, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know what if I, cause that was a whole big reason why I moved from California because it was like, I was like, Oh, it was during the whole Ebola scare. And I was like, yo, this is the pandemic that they're going to use to shut the world down. I was like, this is it. And I was like, if it's not this one, it's going to be the next one. So I like skirted and I moved to Pennsylvania and then I'm like, kind of been sitting. So sometimes that like hyper, like analytical, um, like I can sense things for a long time, I think before, and this isn't, I'm not saying this to be arrogant, like, but like, I can sense things and I can kind of put the pieces together before it even happens. And then sometimes I'm like, it will stun me, you know? [Speaker 1] (1:16:34 - 1:16:42) Like, so, but yeah, I should celebrate your wins and claim the things that have worked for you. You may have something wrong with that. [Speaker 2] (1:16:42 - 1:16:54) Yeah, no, there's, there's a big, a big trend. And I think when, when you become a person who says, I'm going to share information where I, you get, I get a lot of messages of people thinking, being like, you think, you know, everything that I'm like, I really don't. [Speaker 1] (1:16:54 - 1:17:43) Yeah. The thing about this, this call that we've, we've, we've answered as truth seekers is that the more you learn, the more you realize you don't have a fucking clue. Like, I'm just like, man, there's this whole world out there. And it's like, and you have to remember the most of the masses that they're not even, they have no clue at all. So it's just like, you know, we have in our own worlds, we have little nuggets to share. And for a lot of people, man, that could be life changing. So it's like, we don't, this is the thing that keeps us back, you know, and it did for me. I was like, well, if I don't know everything, I can't share anything. And it's like, no, I can share what I can share. And if there's 20 people that are into it or 50 people that are into it, you know what I mean? It's just like, and that, that was the big changing, changing factor for me. [Speaker 3] (1:17:43 - 1:19:09) The one thing that we can always share truthfully and with fortitude is our experience, because that's, that's uniquely your own. And the lessons that you've learned from your experience is ultimately what you have to offer to anyone else. And that's, that's where your area of service is. It's what you've overcome yourself, you know? And so when people say I've got nothing to share, that's bullshit. It's not about sharing data and facts and you mean whatever kind of intelligence there is. It's about sharing your own unique intelligence, your own unique offerings based on what you've gleaned within yourself. So yeah, man, I hear you there. And like, as Yerasimos stated in terms of the body, that was, that was a big part for me was, was feeling, right? Because it's body mind psyche. And we're so conditioned and programmed to believe that the psyche is just in the head and that consciousness just exists in the head when it simply doesn't, you know? And by developing somatic practices, we can actually orient ourself in reality. We become more grounded. We become more censored. We become more discerning. So a big part of my process, and I thank Yerasimos for this definitely, was just tuning into my body and being like, what is it that you actually want to feel right now? What is it that needs to be felt? What have I been repressing? What needs to be expressed? And that was been a massive alleviation for my journey and for my path of actually doing shadow work and discerning more clearer who I am and what it is that I'm here to do. [Speaker 2] (1:19:12 - 1:20:52) Yeah, but there's a, there's something that, that Yerasimos said, he said, like, once you, you kind of, when you start learning, then you realize, oh, wait, there's a whole bunch of, there's a whole bunch of shit I don't know. I don't know anything like this. And there's something recently that I, I was, it's, it's, it's something that I had been familiar with, a form of, of, of reasoning that I have been introduced to through Mark Passio stuff. But there's another person who actually addresses it. It's the concept of apotheosis. It's knowing what something is by knowing what it's not. And another term for it is like the polyterm neti neti, which means not this, not that. Right. So it's like, I think that to be able to fundamentally make any movement or any progress in life, you have to recognize that there is a truth, that there is a grand truth, that there is a fundamental and a principle to, to existence. And then the, the growth comes when you have, when you can look and say, oh, well, it's not that, oh, well, it's not that. And, and, and, and not just in a hyper, not just in a critical, like, like denigrating way, but in, in, in like a way of saying, oh, well, oh, oh, it's not quite that. It's not quite that. And then that's kind of like that paradox and paradox and contradiction are not the same thing. Right. Paradox, it means like beyond belief. Right. So it's like, well, it's beyond what I believed, you know, this moment or whatever. But it's like, you, you come to a new, a new recognition and, and you don't just like shed everything and you're nothing that you were before. It's just like, oh, well, oh, it's not that part. It's not that part. It's not that part. And I think that that's kind of like a, yeah, that's it. That was a little, I thought that that popped up, you're saying all that stuff. And what Joel was saying. [Speaker 3] (1:20:52 - 1:21:13) Definitely, that's the process of discovery, bro, that that's what it is. You mean, it's just coming at it from, from the other side, you know? And the only way to know what it's not is by actually going and looking and going and touching and going and finding out and going, going and saying, right, how else can you begin to, to carve Michelangelo out of that block? Right. You can't otherwise. [Speaker 1] (1:21:15 - 1:22:40) Yeah. And then like we come to the realization, oh, God, you know, whenever we start looking into this stuff, like, oh, God, we don't know shit, you know, like there's so much to know out there. What can, what kind of value can I possibly offer somebody else? But then, you know, we're making the steps to learn this stuff as you, everyone should, that's on the path. But when it comes to the average person walking around the average consciousness walking around, they know infinitely less than you do when you think you don't know shit. You know, I've, I've come to realize that. And whenever you get a troll, you know, on your page or something, just spouting nonsense, it's easy. That I used to take that more personal than I do now, but now I know what level of consciousness they're operating at, you know, and Rudolph Steiner said, once people hit age 27, if they don't have a spiritual calling, telling them to go forward and know more, then they will stagnate there for the rest of their lives, you know, and I think 27 is probably a little old compared to, or, you know, a little mature compared to some of the people we deal with on a daily basis. And, you know, because it seems like a lot of them haven't progressed past toddler, but, you know, it's, it just makes so much more sense when you hear it contextualized like that. [Speaker 3] (1:22:42 - 1:23:06) For sure, man. I mean, the, the, the, her psychology is based on the fact that you may know that they're still rooted in the child's idea of having safety dictate and be the primary motivator for all their decision-making skills, you know? So psychologically, most people haven't, haven't developed beyond, beyond the toddler and beyond the child's stage. And that's, that's what the predator preys upon is safety. [Speaker 2] (1:23:08 - 1:23:22) That's, that's crazy. That's a crazy case. So, yeah. So you're saying basically that like the herd mentality is essentially the, the child, like the child, like that's, yeah, that's, that's really, yeah, that, that definitely lines up with a lot of stuff that I've, I think that I've researched. [Speaker 1] (1:23:25 - 1:23:26) No, continue. [Speaker 2] (1:23:26 - 1:24:09) Oh no, I was saying that's just, there's, I like how Joel says stuff. He, he kind of, he connects, he connects these things that I'm like, that I, I wouldn't have said it that way or people that I've said that, but it's like, it's, it's a complete connection with yeah. It's like, um, the idea of, of, of the, the proxy parent, right. And Chad, I know Chad is, is familiar with this concept too, because it's something that Mark Passio speaks about, right. It's like, and a whole bunch of people speak about it. That was my introduction to it. But it's the idea that like, you're always looking for like this, this fake parent to fill in, you know, for your protector and then for your nurturer. And like, that's like really what the whole, what the whole herd mentality is. And that's, yeah, there's a great article that I refer to a lot of people. [Speaker 1] (1:24:09 - 1:24:38) I think it's great. We had him on the podcast a few episodes ago, Jason Kristoff, and he wrote a great article on like adults and then adults who act like children. And it's like this great list of like 40 or 50 things of like what the adult would do and what the adult child would do. And it's such a great article because, you know, as individuals, we can look at that and read it, engage like, oh, okay, well over here, I'm definitely acting like an adult. I'm like over here, man, I got some work to do, you know? And it's, it's a really cool thing. I'll email it to you guys. Cause I think you both would enjoy it. [Speaker 3] (1:24:39 - 1:25:57) Yeah, but absolutely, man. It is, it is the proxy parent that simply fills in the role. So this person doesn't have to psychologically develop the fortitude they need of actually figuring stuff out on their own, because these paths have been pre-carved for us by these dictators. So most of our lives, the trajectory, they're straight lines, they're highways, they're already made before we get there, right? Whereas the authentic path, it's a crooked road. We figure it out with each step. And normally, traditionally, ancestrally, there's these rites of passages, which human beings would have to go through to break away from their mother or to break away from their father and actually go through something which is life-changing for them to begin on their real life journey of being an individual. But now in our malignant culture, those rites of passages, they're easily bypassed. In fact, for most of us, they no longer exist at all. And the lack of these rites of passages is why most people don't develop beyond that phase. And then we have the proxy daddy government and mommy pharmaceutical to be like, yeah, stay coddled. Here's your blanket, wear it over your mouth, you're good. [Speaker 1] (1:25:57 - 1:26:04) That's why I think we should round up all the 13-year-old boys and just throw them in the middle of the forest. And if they survive, they survive. [Speaker 2] (1:26:08 - 1:28:08) That's crazy, though, because those rites of passage, it's like, you know, one thing that I've recognized from studying multiple religions like intently in different cultures is that those rites of passage always represented something that was in nature, right? Like, it was never just like, oh, here's like this thing that we just kind of made up. And like, it's like, it always has like an archetype that is a natural process. And it's like, and it's really strange because we don't, we don't have that like overall, which is like, it's like, okay, well, how are we supposed to understand the natural cycles of things, the, you know, the laws of nature? How are we supposed to understand this when we don't, we're not really integrated into it individually or societally or anything. It's like our society is based off of a complete disconnection from that. And I think that it obviously that's intentional because, because they use, they use the same exact symbols and the same exact cultural or not cultural natural cycles, but in like this inverted disconnected way. That's why they, you know, they give us, they give us the sunlight ritual. When we go get gas, they give us the ritual of the cycle of the sunlight. When we, you know, when we go to target and we see the, we see the sun symbol, you know, they give us the birth symbol. When we go in and pick up a pack of cigarettes or we buy a Chanel purse that has the, you know, the, the, the, the vesica piscis, the, you know, the, the, the, the oval symbol, you know? And it's like, so it's like, we, we go through these rituals, but instead of doing it consciously and like, with like a, with like an intention and like with an actual, like, and a purpose of, of, of harmonizing with them. We, we go through it so that it kind of, it's almost just like a, it's, it's like a little morsel of it. So it keeps us from starving completely, but then they, they make us hunger for the rest of it. And I'm going to say they, but we also contribute to our, our slaving hungering for it. Yeah. Our hungering for it by, by not really, you know, many of us don't, don't really go further than that and recognize the hunger. And that's, yeah, that's, that's, that's really wild, man. Welcome to the upside down bar. [Speaker 3] (1:28:11 - 1:28:36) It's crazy to think, Hey, that, like, that's, that, that's what we, that's, that's what the overlay of this malignant society is, is based upon, it's based upon an inversion of pretty much everything that's natural. And for some reason we here existing within that to try figure out who the fuck we are in that, in that process, you know, like, it's just a wild thing to put those pieces together and be like, what the fuck is actually going on right now? [Speaker 1] (1:28:36 - 1:29:27) Yeah. It's also why they want to jam pack everyone into these like 5G smart cities, you know, like, let's just, let's stay as far away from nature as you can. Oh, Oh, you want to, you want to grow, um, vegetables on your lawn? Well, that's illegal. You can't do that. It's like anything. It's like that. It's about getting closer to nature. It's like, we have a problem with it. Like, Oh, let's live off the grid. Let's, let's do all this. Nope. Can't do that. Unable to do that. Like there's just, it's just funny how it's just, like you said, there's just, it's programmed to keep us disconnected from nature. And so how can we fight that program? Cause it's coming at us from every angle, even us here, like, you know, we use technology as a tool, but sometimes these tools can take us over. And it's like, man, like I got trees and hiking trails outside of where I live. And there's times where I'm like, I must stay on my devices. I must, you know, and so it's, it's, you know, it takes work. [Speaker 3] (1:29:27 - 1:29:59) Yeah, dude. And I mean, just the same reason, like we have, we have high rises and people spending their entire lives above ground in 15, 16, 20, 30, 40, 50 floors. Right. And I mean, I think going down this timeline, like we see in Brave New World, we're going to begin seeing platform cities as well. And we're going to be, be seeing more manifest this actual disconnection from the earth, because to me, there's, there's no doubt that that's what this is about. It's about, it's at the core of whatever the predator is. It's anti-life. That's the way I see it. [Speaker 1] (1:30:00 - 1:30:33) Absolutely. I think the whole, I think one of the biggest tasks that they're, they're trying to enact is that total disconnect from all things natural, all things that are lead you back to creation. I should say, you know, anything that'll take you back to your source and your power, they want to disconnect. And I think they're trying to do that through pharmacological means. And they're trying to do that through food and, you know, the media you take in your information. Every level of input into your body, I think is designed to disconnect you from that spirit. [Speaker 3] (1:30:35 - 1:31:19) Definitely, man. And I mean, this is earth school, bro. This is deep, deep, deep soul evolution from my perspective that we came here for, you know, so it was never going to be, it's never going to be unicorns and rainbows. But for the true seeker, this is, it's fertile environment for us to do the realist inner work ever, you know? And that's the one, that's the one place that they're not going to be able to hijack where the truth lives. And that's within each and every single one of us. So if we're not getting that reflection from our society, because most of us don't, don't live immersed in nature, then we've got to primarily look for it within ourselves and then adjust accordingly. Amen. [Speaker 1] (1:31:20 - 1:31:30) Amen to that. Wait, wait, hold up, hold up a woman. I don't want to get canceled. Exactly. You need to be a PC on this podcast. [Speaker 3] (1:31:32 - 1:31:51) Alright guys, I reckon that was, that was a beautiful place to end this one, man. I'm so glad to be connected with both you, both you gentlemen, and truly honor the paths that you've both taken and the journey that you guys are on. So yeah, man, just be here now and have this conversation. It's something that I'm grateful to partake in with, with both of you. So thank you for making the time. [Speaker 1] (1:31:51 - 1:32:08) I'm equally grateful, man. Thank you for reaching out. It's great to connect with both of you guys. Yeah, yes, I'm here. I mean, this is one of the cool things about having a platform like this is just me and other people that are on the path that are doing their thing and playing their part and just connecting with other cool motherfuckers. [Speaker 3] (1:32:08 - 1:32:23) Yeah, absolutely. And anything, anything either of you guys want to shout out to their audience, to our audience, let them know your Instagram handles where they can find you. It's a, because honestly, guys, both these guys are posting pretty fire content, but it's super helpful. So yeah, let them know. [Speaker 1] (1:32:25 - 1:32:26) Remy, go for it. [Speaker 2] (1:32:26 - 1:33:15) Yeah, so I'm, yeah, I got Instagram at Remy.vega, R-E-M-Y.V-E-G-A, and I've made some tunes in my time. They're not, you know, they're pretty old. So, I mean, I guess if you want to look it up on Bandcamp, bandcamp.com or remyvega.bandcamp.com. So, but, you know, that's not really my main focus right now. My main focus is trying to, I plan on making music, but until it contains a little bit more like substantial topics, then, you know, mainly I'm just trying to, you know, connect with people and share research and get feedback. And, you know, so yeah, check, check me out on Instagram if you want to link. I try to, you know, talk with as many people. I don't have a huge following or nothing. So, you know, anybody wants to send some messages through and challenge my perspectives and help me grow a little bit and I can maybe do the same. So, yeah. You make beats, right? [Speaker 1] (1:33:15 - 1:33:16) We're all here for it. [Speaker 2] (1:33:16 - 1:33:21) I do make beats. Yeah, yeah. I play, so I play, yeah, I play keys. I make beats. That's like a big, yeah. That's kind of awesome, man. [Speaker 3] (1:33:22 - 1:33:26) I'd love to hear something and maybe we can collab on something down the road for sure. We're good. [Speaker 2] (1:33:26 - 1:33:28) Oh yeah, definitely. I'm for it. [Speaker 3] (1:33:28 - 1:33:29) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:33:30 - 1:33:31) It's beautiful boys. [Speaker 2] (1:33:32 - 1:33:33) Look what's happening. [Speaker 1] (1:33:34 - 1:33:43) Background vocals in there guys. Yeah. Yeah. We'll be on the background vocals. Yeah. Awesome. [Speaker 3] (1:33:44 - 1:33:49) Chad, let them know where they can find you, man. And also particularly your artwork, bro. It's pretty incredible. [Speaker 1] (1:33:51 - 1:34:06) Thank you, man. Yeah. On Instagram, it is C Kilgore 47. And then I also have an art account that is Chad Kilgore underscore and a website. It's just Chad Kilgore.com. [Speaker 3] (1:34:07 - 1:34:21) Awesome. Cool. Guys, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. So our members were super grateful for your support as always. If you dig, tell your friends, share it around and yeah, we'll see you next time. Take care.

Remy Vega & Chad Kilgore

Remy Vega, Researcher · Musician · Student of Symbolism — Chad Kilgore, Self-Taught Artist · Former NFL Athlete · Bodyworker

Remy Vega is a Pittsburgh-based researcher, hip-hop musician and audio engineer who studied religion and music in college and dedicates his work to symbolism, ancient language, and the architecture of human belief systems. Chad Kilgore is a Kansas City-based self-taught artist, former NFL and Canadian Football League athlete, body worker, and father of three — committed to aligning his life with truth and helping others do the same.

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