Joel & Yerasimos Walking an Authentic Path

[Speaker 1] (0:13 - 0:35) Hey guys, I'm Joel, this is Eurasimus and welcome to Here for the Truth. Basically, Here for the Truth is a podcast where we explore the truth on all matters. Our intention is to get to the bottom of what it means to live truthfully, to live authentically and to use our own experiences to discern what truth is. So yeah, man, good to be here with you. [Speaker 2] (0:35 - 0:55) Yeah, it's so good to be here, man. I'm so happy we connected. You know, Joel and I, we connected through what I think both of us consider pretty amazing podcast, co-hosted by Michael Tesarian and David Whitehead called Unslaved. And I'm just happy that we connected. We're just a couple of guys, one in Australia and one in California. [Speaker 1] (0:56 - 1:02) There are no coincidences, man. Yeah, I mean, it speaks to the fact that the synchronicities are real. [Speaker 2] (1:02 - 1:08) Yeah, it's awesome, man. I really appreciate it. So yeah, the truth, the truth, man. [Speaker 3] (1:09 - 1:11) What is the truth? What is it? [Speaker 1] (1:12 - 1:22) It's elusive to some, I guess. I mean, it's elusive to me too sometimes, definitely. But tell me, what is it to live truthfully to you? What's the truth to you? Give me a breakdown. [Speaker 2] (1:25 - 2:05) Well, I think, you know, I love it. You just ask these questions. What the truth is to me is when I think about it, I think it's like a process of getting to it. You know, it's like it's this thing that I don't know, man. It just feels like it feels authentic. It aligns with me on every single level. There's internal truth. There's external truth. You know, there's what's going on in the world. There's what's going on in my psyche. Like, who am I? Who am I meant to be? Who am I outside of the conditioning that I got from my mom, my dad, my society? You know, the work that you do with Grounded Alchemy. You know, how do I get in touch with my true nature? [Speaker 1] (2:05 - 2:05) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (2:05 - 2:07) You know, how do I shed away all that stuff? [Speaker 1] (2:07 - 3:00) Definitely. I mean, it feels different, doesn't it? Like, and obviously it feels different when you know that, you know, there's something not truthful that you're considering or you're being presented with at the same time. And for me, like, ultimately through my journey and my process, the unfolding process of understanding what truth is, is really the connection to that feeling and how my body feels when presented with different information, different circumstances, different experiences. And I mean, I guess as I've gone through that process and through that journey, I guess becoming more so attuned to that little voice or to that little feeling, which kind of, you know what I mean, I've become connected with and says, okay, this is the authentic path for you. You mean, this is something that you should explore and also becoming more attuned to when it's warning me of something. [Speaker 2] (3:02 - 3:44) Yeah. I think that's, that's the thing right there is how do you build a connection with that part of you? How does it become real for you? Why do certain people make decisions that are more authentic to them and actually in alignment with their truth versus living out someone else's truth or making a decision that's being, that's coming from, let's say trauma, it's coming from conditioning, you know? And so that's why I, for me personally, I'm such a huge fan of, of getting as healthy as you can and taking care of your body as best as you can, because it's much more difficult to hear that whisper, you know, that whisper of truth through the haze of toxicity, through the haze of a highly charged nervous system. [Speaker 1] (3:45 - 4:14) No, absolutely. But I mean, it's, it's, it's absolutely all connected as well. Like obviously that, that toxicity on a, on a, on a bio energetic level is correlated to psychic toxicity also. And really until, until you do something to remove that toxicity or lessen that toxicity, whether it be through, through eating right through getting your body right, then you're never really going to be able to get to what's underneath that being the underlying psychic trauma and conditioning that's taken place. [Speaker 2] (4:16 - 5:08) Yeah, I definitely feel you there, man. It's been a journey for me, you know, I don't know if you want to talk about your journey at all. I'm 40 years old right now, so I'm grateful to, I'm grateful to the past, I would say 15 years for me, I've been in on a more of a self development, you know, health and wellness path. And it's, it's gone through twists and turns and lots of experimentation, a lot of trial and error, learning from different teachers, integrating feeling how it works for me, what feels truthful, you know, what really feels like the truth and, and, and to be honest, like, I mean, I'm not trying to, like, pat myself on the back, but I feel like I came into, I came into, I came into this world into this planet with like a, like a really good ability to kind of separate the true from the false, you know, like just kind of like, nah, it's not right. You know, I don't know where that comes from. I mean, yeah. And you might be able to answer that with your work. [Speaker 1] (5:08 - 6:14) It's so interesting, because so, so do I, right. But what I've noticed is that unless you're willing to put yourself out there and to trust yourself on some level, then you're never really going to, in my perspective, in my experience, build the capability to carve out an authentic path of truth, because everything out there is saying, go this way. You may not follow, follow this path, do this. This is what normal living is like. But those roads, they're pre-carved, they're carved out by someone else, for someone else, not for your true, true potential and not for your, you know, your highest, your highest self and your true authenticity. Yeah. So, like, I mean, personally, for me, only by actually deciding to, I guess, in the first place, listen within and explore what that is, was I ever able to listen further, I guess. [Speaker 2] (6:14 - 7:27) Yeah, yeah. And, like, on my end, like, I'm trying to think about, like, my background, you know, like, I grew up, you know, I had loving parents, they're Greek immigrants to the United States, and they had a certain way on how they thought I should be and live. And now, granted, some of that was really beneficial, you know, I had a really great foundation of love. But at the same time, like, you know, what we were, what maybe was taught culturally, or what was taught in my hometown, or how people, how things were on TV, you know, like, that impacted me for a while, but that inner voice, the inner voice is kind of like, well, no, this doesn't feel right, you know, like, something's off, like, you know what, I'm not going to stay home and go to university. I want to leave, I want to leave the comfort of Wayne, New Jersey, and explore and see what the hell else is out there. Now, I know there's a, there's an inner explorer in me, there's a curious part of me always, you know what I mean? So, like, that started my journey, like, 18, going to school in Boston, and being like, oh, shit, I'm by myself, fuck, like, I'm gonna party, I'm gonna meet all different kinds of people, I'm gonna experiment with, with things, you know what I mean? Like, you can't, like, it's hard to find the truth, when you're just doing the same thing over and over again. [Speaker 1] (7:27 - 8:42) Absolutely, man. I mean, I want to relate this to what it is that I do with Grounded Alchemy for a second here. But the very first card of the major arcana is the fool, right? And the fool in some decks is known as El Mato. And what that means is basically the one who becomes wise by making every single mistake in the book. And this is what I mean, right? The authentic path, it's a crooked path, it's not a straight line, you're gonna make mistakes, but unless you make those mistakes, you're never going to learn. You're never going to realize what paths are meant for you, what paths aren't meant for you. And in many ways, this card, the fool, is me, it represents my life. It's zero, but it's also the 22nd card. I was born on the 22nd, so that relates to me deeply, you know what I mean? But that's honestly how I feel. Unless I made all those mistakes, unless I screwed up those many times, unless, you know what I mean? Unless I did things that went against my spirit, unless, you know what I mean, I said those lies, unless I ate the wrong things, then really, I would never have understood the opposite. And that's what life is. Everything is a duet, everything is a polarity. [Speaker 2] (8:44 - 9:37) I love that you brought that up because I might as well just bring on the human design piece to it as well. Your profile in human design is the 6-2 profile. So the six, these are based on the six hexagrams, the six lines of the hexagram in I Ching. So the six is known as the role model. The role model hermit is your profile. But the six, up until age 30, you're actually a three. And the three is the trial and error card. It's the great experimenter. It's the martyr. It's through learning, through bumping into life, through bumping into life, relationships, this, that, and the other. And through that wisdom, like my wife is a 3-5, so she has a three line throughout. And it's like, that's how you gain the wisdom. And then you move into, ultimately, over time, you move into that role model spot where you're the role model for humanity, for people, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, it's more diesel than that, but that's one piece. [Speaker 1] (9:38 - 10:22) That's an incredible correlation. But like, that's the thing, right? You have to put yourself out there. You have to bump into the world. You have to realize, you have to push yourself against everything else. How else do you know yourself? Is there another way than through the mirror of someone else or through the mirror of the world? Isn't ultimately this experience a reflection and telling us everything that's actually happening internally? And if something feels wrong out there, then often it's probably wrong in here. And if I turn my gaze inward and address it in here, then ultimately I'm addressing it out there, as opposed to trying to fix everything out there and never really addressing the root cause and never being able to move beyond that point. [Speaker 2] (10:23 - 10:24) Well said, man. [Speaker 1] (10:24 - 10:25) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (10:25 - 10:34) So I'm curious if you want to share your journey a little bit, what it was like, where'd you come from and what was the aha moment for you? [Speaker 1] (10:35 - 12:46) Definitely, man. I'd love to. So we've had this discussion before, but basically I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. So from the outset, there was deep conditioning and deep programming that takes place. And I think that programming, it's not just with one sect of Christianity or religion. This is a universal idea that ultimately everyone is forced to live in fear because of, in my view, because the whole premise of religion is that the good is outside of you. It's not inside of you. You're a born sinner. You need to be clean, right? This is the whole foundation of what is psychologically being pushed upon us in religious circles from birth. And I mean, it took me a long time to actually really see that programming for what it was and get to the bottom of it. But once I did, I guess, and I was able to dissipate that layer, I guess I was able to question things and able to really discover what my truth is, as opposed to what the truth out there is. So the initial parts of my journey were just simply like questioning things like pesticides or fluoride or toxins in vaccines and thinking, OK, that doesn't really make much sense. Why? I mean, why is this government that I guess supposedly is there to look after me and care for me and do the right thing for me? Why are they putting things that simply hurt me in my food and in my water and in the sky? And that really sent me down the initial rabbit hole, which was, you know, in the questioning, I guess, all that jazz, which, you know, goes pretty deep. Yeah, man, from there, my journey of self-discovery just continued. And it was, you mean, simply, ultimately, at the end of the day, my willingness to, I guess, ultimately, regardless of comfort, choose truth and decide truth and to find out what the truth is. [Speaker 2] (12:48 - 13:05) And, you know, what I love, too, is I've listened to some of your tracks because you're also like a conscious hip hop artist as well. And it feels like through your words and through their music, it's a really awesome way to express, you know, your journey towards truth or what you believe the truth is. You know, I really I really dig that. [Speaker 1] (13:05 - 14:26) And I'm very lucky to have to have had that because a lot of the big issue or the overarching problem, if you would, that I see in the world at the moment is, I guess, left brain versus right brain, right? And we live in a world that is so analytical, so fragmented, so compartmentalized, so data driven, where we've almost cut off the right brain or whole brain aspect of seeing the world. And, you mean, just put it simply, we can say left brain is analysis, right brain is, I guess, more so imagination and seeing the whole picture. And through music and through writing, I was always able to maintain that right brain element, which allows me to connect the dots and see the whole picture and see the bigger picture, as opposed to, you know what I mean? Obviously, going down the cubicle office, rat race, school, university, you know what I mean? Accountants, whatever it is, and never really, I guess, exploring those deeper and more imaginative aspects, which in my understanding, ultimately, is, you know what I mean? That's the foundation of who we are. There's nothing more real than imagination. It's always there. [Speaker 2] (14:27 - 15:07) Yeah, dude, I love what you say. And, you know, it's interesting, too, because even when you brought up the term accountant, it's kind of like a thing I've used that word often, where I'm just like, well, I didn't want to just be a fucking accountant. And I'm not ragging on accountants, because I think we need accountants. I have one. Accountant provides. But at the end of the day, for truth, your truth is not going to be my truth in terms of what's right for you. Now, there's truth out there of what's happening in the world. But internally, in terms of what's the right way for you to live, it's going to be different. So it's like, if I know an accountant, and he's really happy, and he loves working with numbers, but then at the same time, he's like, you know, I paint. I paint when I get off from work. [Speaker 3] (15:07 - 15:07) You know what I mean? [Speaker 2] (15:08 - 15:15) Absolutely. I don't think everyone's able to just like, hey, I'm just going to do the thing that, you know, like it's. [Speaker 1] (15:16 - 15:17) I didn't mean to rag on accountants. [Speaker 2] (15:17 - 15:23) No, no. I didn't think you did, but I just wanted to make sure because. I did a commerce degree. [Speaker 1] (15:24 - 15:25) I did a commerce degree. [Speaker 2] (15:26 - 15:32) Yeah. I mean, I was a business hotel restaurant management major in Boston University. [Speaker 1] (15:32 - 15:32) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (15:33 - 15:33) I get it. [Speaker 1] (15:34 - 15:49) It's so interesting, man. But I went to three different unis, and I dropped out all three times. There's just something in me where it was like, this is not where you're meant to be. I didn't even tell my parents. My first degree, I literally just went to the staff office, and I said, I'm done. This was after four or five weeks straight out of high school. I'm like, how do I get out of here? [Speaker 2] (15:51 - 16:09) You know, I actually, my brain or whoever, I was built to be able to do well in the conventional system because I'm able to memorize and regurgitate information. And I was raised by a Greek mom to be a good person and to be a people pleaser. So, I don't know. It suited me. [Speaker 3] (16:09 - 16:10) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (16:10 - 17:36) But it didn't feed me. You know what I mean? Yeah, man. My journey's been a trip, dude. I mean, I just kind of like, oh, this is what I should do. I grew up in the restaurant business. I like making people happy. Like, oh, I'll go to Boston University. They have a really great hospitality administration program. And I did that. And after college, I worked in a hotel company. But that was it. This was, what, 2004. I had a few years of doing this, and I learned a lot. But I was like, this isn't for me. This is not for me. I wanted more creativity. I wanted more adventure. You know, I was 24 at that time. And I just, what I did, I made the choice. My parents were born and raised in Greece. They spent a lot of time there. And so, the summer of the Olympics in 2004, I packed a suitcase full of books, and I went to my parents' house. And I did nothing but read books for like three months. And that was those, a lot of seeds were planted then by different books that I read. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And I've always had a curious mind. Perhaps it's my Gemini nature or my one line in human design, which is the investigator. It's all about getting down, investigating to feel a firm foundation and to feel secure in the knowledge that I can then provide. And so, it's just been a big part of who I am. And I've always just kind of dabbled and gone from one thing to the next and connected dots and see the patterns. And, oh, that doesn't interest me anymore. What's the new thing that interests me? And just find this connection. And it's just been this process, you know. [Speaker 1] (17:37 - 19:16) Absolutely, man. And, I mean, speaking of Gemini, 100%, you mean that that is Gemini nature. And you being a native Gemini, it rules logic. It rules communication. It rules analysis. You know what I mean? It rules seeing those things and connecting the dots. And that's why, to me, like it's these arts are so valuable and so important to ultimately get that little bit of insight or get that breakthrough as to what it is that I'm, what am I actually inclined towards? What am I actually like? And it's not a matter of these arts telling you what you're like. It's a matter of you awakening that connection that's already there. And the moment you see that and connect with it, you're like, oh, shit. You know what I mean? That is me. That's actually how I've always felt. Then you open that communion. You open that voice. And, ultimately, you don't need these arts. You don't need any of it. But when that actually becomes assumed enough, you can, for me, I ask the questions to myself, and I feel the answer come up. You know what I mean? But it's just opening that gateway to the point where it's like, okay, you mean, there is an aspect of me or a part of me that is unique and is an individual and is unlike anybody else. And when you really attune to that and you realize your own core attributes and your skills and your natural aptitudes and your talents, then, for me, that really opens up, you know what I mean, the options and the ability to be like, okay, this is me. What decisions am I going to make knowing that now? [Speaker 2] (19:17 - 19:24) Yeah. And that's what I love about all these more esoteric systems, whether it's astrology, numerology, science of playing cards, human design, et cetera, et cetera. [Speaker 3] (19:25 - 19:25) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (19:26 - 19:54) It's just allowed me to just come to a deeper place of acceptance within myself and, like you said, affirm certain qualities and for me to take ownership of them. A hundred percent, man. It's kind of like shining the mirror. It's like, fuck yeah. I was afraid of this because, oh, what will people think? Or my mom told me not to be this way. And it's like, no, this is my fucking birthright. This is who I am. How do I wear the crown of my authority? How do I speak my mind, et cetera, et cetera. [Speaker 1] (19:54 - 20:49) And to me, that's the fucking coolest thing in the world, right? Because as a kid, I played a lot of video games, a lot of video games. Whenever you had a new first player video game, one player video game, and you'd choose the attributes, you know what I mean? Or like what the strengths are, what the weaknesses are. Then you'd fucking own that, right? And you'd go out there and you'd own that and you'd rely on those strengths and those attributes. But for me to have that understanding of me as a being here and now, you know what I mean, that's the most amazing thing in the world. And in knowing that, in being able to double down on that, now that I know that, and having that clarity to be able to easily know what paths are meant for me and what paths aren't meant for me, to be more assured in my guesses and knows, and ultimately be able to reject anything that I know is not aligned with my higher self and with my real true potential and true purpose. [Speaker 2] (20:50 - 21:08) Yeah, I just love these divination arts, these different sciences. And it's just been, again, we talk about truth. We're here for the truth. And it's like, well, where does the truth start? It starts with yourself. And if you're not living an authentic life, it's going to be a lot more difficult to find authenticity outside of yourself. [Speaker 1] (21:09 - 21:10) Ultimately, that's right, man. [Speaker 2] (21:11 - 21:18) If you're not connected to what's real within you, you're not going to be able to watch something on the news and be like, that motherfucker is lying. [Speaker 1] (21:18 - 21:19) Yeah, dude. [Speaker 2] (21:19 - 21:21) No, because you're lying to yourself. [Speaker 1] (21:21 - 21:21) Exactly. [Speaker 2] (21:22 - 21:22) You're lying to your soul. [Speaker 1] (21:23 - 21:34) Exactly. And you're going to be open to anyone that will tell you anything because you have no rock. You've got no foundation. You don't know. Oh, sorry. Something happened here. It's all good? [Speaker 2] (21:34 - 21:35) Oh, did the recording stop? [Speaker 1] (21:37 - 21:44) No, the recording's still going. It's all right. We can cut that out. For some reason, my email's just opened randomly. It's all right. [Speaker 2] (21:45 - 21:52) It's cool, dude. I like when things are a little... I mean, I know you're an editor and you're all about that, but I'm just like, yo, this is it. [Speaker 1] (21:52 - 21:53) Yeah, no, no, it's cool. [Speaker 2] (21:53 - 21:54) It's right here, dude. No, no, it's really good. [Speaker 1] (21:55 - 22:27) But yes, let's jump back in there. So what you're saying is 100% the case because where there is no selfhood, there is no truth. And without selfhood, you become the collective. You become the mass idea of everyone else. You become a nobody floating in the ocean, floating in the abyss with no rock or anchor to the earth to say, this is me, you know what I mean? You become open to being everybody else. [Speaker 2] (22:27 - 22:31) You get swallowed up from the crowd, swallowed up by the crowd, you know? [Speaker 1] (22:32 - 22:59) Yeah, man. This is why I'm so interested and why I find what you do being body work, being, you mean, somatic healing and understanding somatic intelligence is such foundational principles for actually having that anchor because most people have completely rejected the idea of their body altogether, right? They just think even in new age circles, you mean, oh, I'm not my body. [Speaker 2] (22:59 - 23:00) I'm going to transcend it. [Speaker 1] (23:01 - 23:31) Yes, I'm going to transcend my body. I'm not my body. I'm the spirit, right? I'm spirit. I'm separate to my body. And my body is just my temporary vehicle in this moment. And it doesn't really matter whether I have a connection to that or not, you know what I mean? How many times I've heard the saying, I am not my body in meditation circles or in, you know what I mean? We're just, this denial of the body is such an epidemic in my opinion. So I don't know if you want to speak on that. [Speaker 2] (23:31 - 24:52) Yeah, I do. Well, it's an epidemic and we have perfect evidence of it in front of us. We have a literally entire planet, not entire, but a lot of billions of people on this planet who don't even trust their body, who don't understand their body in the simplest form. And because of that, are operating out of layers of fear that one, cause illness, you know, just fear alone, what that does to you biologically is pretty intense. But on top of that, it's forcing people to do actions and to behave in ways that I think are insane. You know, but this is what happens when you disconnect from nature and you're a part of nature, your body's a part of nature. So if you don't feel that connection to yourself, if you don't know your body, I mean, we literally are born into this world with a fucking body and we don't get the manual for it. We don't teach that shit in school. You know, like they don't teach it. Everything's external. Do this, get along, follow these rules, regurgitate the establishment dogma, you know, be a good boy, be a good girl, you know, follow authority, listen to authority. And it's like, no, my fucking body is the authority. [Speaker 1] (24:53 - 24:56) A hundred percent, man. I mean, this is your first time, your first environment that we're talking about. [Speaker 2] (24:57 - 25:23) Yeah, dude. And even, even in human design, the inner authority, the inner, the decision-making process, it doesn't come from the mind. It's a much more subconscious, it's much more intuitive, instinctual thing and how we make decisions. And you commented on that before, where you're like, I just know what's right. So if you don't have a connection to your body, to your health, it's a lot harder to be like, to know what's right for you and what's not right for you. And you're much more likely to get swallowed up and swept away with crowd consciousness. [Speaker 1] (25:24 - 25:48) Absolutely, man. I've got, I've got a quote from the great philosopher, Friedrich Nietzsche, who says there is no philosophy as deep as the wisdom of the body. So it's just so interesting how you continue to look back and you actually, when you connect the dots, you mean psychologically and what the great masters and sages of the past have said, they are all in agreeance that the body is of our most importance. [Speaker 2] (25:49 - 26:36) Yeah. And for me, it wasn't until I really put the focus, I'm going to say 100%, put that focus into my body, you know, because my foundational work was like, oh, let me read books and let me learn about the structures of consciousness and let me get into some more new age spirituality stuff. I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Some of it was good and beneficial, but it wasn't until I really started nourishing myself in a certain way. And then I started getting into body work and breaking down that armoring, you know, which is a term that Wilhelm Reich uses and breaking down the armoring, you know, like allowing myself to connect deeper to myself, deeper to others, to get that trauma, to explore repressed emotions that are in my body, you know, like that changed things up for me, you know, it just completely changed it. [Speaker 1] (26:36 - 27:11) Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, this is such an intrinsic aspect of what it is to be here for the truth, right? And like you said, armoring and how do you cut counter armoring? It's by developing that sensitivity, right? And how do you, how do you develop sensitivity to the body? It's like we've been saying, it's making that connection. It's stopping doing the things first that actually harming your body and affecting your body negatively. And then, you know what I mean? Saying, where do I go from there? How do I go deeper? How can I, how can I really assume more and feel more and listen to what it is that my body is saying? [Speaker 2] (27:11 - 27:22) Yeah. You know, there's something that I feel like I've said to clients before. I've heard it from somewhere, but it's like, if you were to tell someone, like they're about to make a choice and do something in their body, you go, well, would you, would you give that to a four year old? [Speaker 3] (27:24 - 27:24) You know what I mean? [Speaker 2] (27:24 - 27:37) Like, would you, what you're doing right now, whether it's the cigarette, whether it's the fucking crack, whether it's the alcohol, you know, would you do that to a four year old, you know? And it's like, oh shit, no, like, can you treat your body like this sacred child, you know? [Speaker 1] (27:37 - 27:41) And so, why are you willing to do it now? What's changed? What happened along the way? [Speaker 2] (27:42 - 28:02) And of course, there's reasons why and there's trauma and there's conditioning and subconscious programming from Hollywood, from media, from all that stuff, which we'll get into, I'm sure, throughout the show. But it's again, how do you unplug, you know? How do you unplug from that matrix? How do you unplug from the conditioning, from the masses, from the herd, from the crowd, to really find out what's right for you? [Speaker 1] (28:03 - 28:46) And one of the biggest obstacles here is that most people, I think, want a quick fix solution as to how to do that. But there is no quick fix solution. It's ultimately, it's those little, little, little steps of listening to what you know is right, trusting that, doing that, regardless of how uncomfortable it makes you, and then listening for the next cue. And ultimately, you will go deeper, and deeper, and deeper, and you will trust yourself more, and more, and more, and more. And we live in a quick fix epidemic as well, right? Everyone just wants to transcend. Everyone wants to ascend. Everyone wants to be, you know what I mean, told that, yeah, yeah, yeah, you may reject the earth, reject your body, you're here for a higher purpose. [Speaker 2] (28:47 - 29:10) Or I don't need to eat healthy. I don't need to take personal responsibility for my health. I just need to take this little thing in a bottle, or I just need to get injected with some, some substance, and then I'll be healthy. And then I'm good. Great. Boom. Give me my Krispy Kreme donut. And then I'm off and I can do what I need to do. You know, like, yeah, man, it's just like, no one wants to put in the work. No one wants to take responsibility for their health. [Speaker 1] (29:10 - 29:57) Yeah, man. I mean, this, this, this correlates back to back to religion as well, right? Man is not comfortable within himself. He does not trust himself. So he'll walk to any altar and to any God that will give him their truth and his truth. Right. Yeah. I've got a quote here. Each of us must first exist as individuals. If we are to think, feel and experience ourselves as unique beings within a mysterious world that we did not create. And that's by Michael to Syrian. And I think really this really grasped and encapsulates the whole conversation that we're having man's confusion as to, you know what I mean? Is to be in this world and to, to be who they are and seeking those answers and not having those answers. So looking elsewhere for it. [Speaker 2] (29:58 - 30:16) Yeah, no, I, I hear you, man. I mean, we're witnessing it today. I keep bringing it back to current events, but it's like people are just looking outside themselves for the answers. You know, there's no connection with them. There's no, I don't want to say there's no, but not enough to keep a person from just going along with the herd and going along with the crowd. [Speaker 1] (30:16 - 31:02) And it's, it's well, I mean, the, the, the government today in the, the scientism of today is, is really speaks to, you know what I mean? The, the God of the past and the religion of the past. Right. Because ultimately any. Any reliance on an authority figure outside of yourself. Is stems from a lack of self-reliance and self-trust. And I mean, of course these forces outside of us, you mean they, they leverage fear and they leverage our trauma and they leverage our conditioning. It's a, to do their bidding. And the only way to, to counteract that is to, you know, develop the self develop selfhood, individuality, and you may trust and find your own truth. And ultimately to be here for the truth. [Speaker 2] (31:02 - 31:29) Yeah. I mean, one of my favorite quotes is probably one of the more popular quotes that people throw out there, but it's a simple one by a Greek philosopher. And I love my Greeks millennia, but just know thyself, you know, what is that? Know thyself. What does that mean? Like, if I were to say that to certain people, they, they might be like, I don't know. What do you mean? You know, like how does that quote land with you? You know, what does it mean to know yourself? [Speaker 1] (31:29 - 31:47) Well, I mean, know thyself is for me, it's something that I use often and is all over most of my platforms. And it is the, is the seed is, it is the, is the foundational two words that ultimately will provide all the answers you were ever looking for. If you consider them correctly. [Speaker 2] (31:50 - 31:59) Yeah. You know, I, for me on my end, it's like, why do I believe what I believe? Yeah. Where did I get the belief from? [Speaker 3] (32:00 - 32:00) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (32:01 - 32:03) But like it's serving me, you know? [Speaker 1] (32:03 - 32:33) Yeah, no, definitely. So like, how, how would you suggest or recommend that someone would be able to discern the difference between, you know what I mean? A voice that's coming based on their trauma, based on their programming, based on their conditioning and a voice and a different voice that's coming from, you know what I mean? The, the truth and from their authenticity, because that's a big problem that I find most people have is that they actually struggle to discern between those two forces. [Speaker 2] (32:36 - 32:42) Yeah. I think, well, first off, I think that person needs to look at their life and see how their life is going. [Speaker 3] (32:42 - 32:43) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (32:43 - 33:20) And be like, well, what I've been doing up until this point isn't working because I'm not healthy. I'm not happy. I'm not healthy. I'm not following my purpose. I'm in a dead end job. I'm in a horrible relationship. So that right there should be data that you're taking in that. Something's off. Yeah. You know, now I can speak about it from a human design standpoint is that different people have different ways of making decisions and how do you decondition from things that aren't supporting you? And how do you listen to that inner voice? And for each person, it may be different, but you have to find a way to get to that voice to really understand like what is that instinct? What is that intuition? What does that gut? You know, how do you connect to your gut? What does that mean? You know what I mean? [Speaker 1] (33:21 - 34:30) Yeah, man, a hundred percent. I mean, a year ago, a year or so ago, I was, I don't know if you can know, if you're familiar with Vernon Howard, but I was writing to, I was writing to his work. And one thing that he really opened up for me was, yeah, it was, was that was the fact that, okay, have the other decisions that you've made so far. Is that, is that, is that voice? Has that voice, voice guided you to a place of prosperity and security so far? You know what I mean? Like, are you, are you happy with where you are because of what you've listened to and the actions that you've made. And ultimately questioning that, right. That, that, that, that brings you to the question of, okay, yeah, that's right. What, what, what am I doing? What actions am I making? What am I scared of confronting within myself? That is blocking me from opening those avenues to actually living more authentically. And it's, it's always that it's always been that for me. There's, but I don't know it until I get there, but there's something that I'm, I've been scared of, or I'm scared of bringing up within myself, which closes me in to where I am. [Speaker 2] (34:30 - 34:37) Yeah. Yeah. And the thing is too, it's like, sometimes you just don't know what you don't know. I mean, that's the thing. That's the thing about the unconscious, you know what? [Speaker 3] (34:37 - 34:37) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (34:37 - 34:59) Like young, I think instead, like the thing about the unconscious is that it's unconscious. You know, you don't fucking know what you don't know. So how do you then, how do you allow to, how do you allow to build a relationship? How do you build a relationship with the unconscious in a way where things bubble up? And what do you do? Do you face them? Do you sit with emotions or do you fucking smoke them away or fuck them away or jerk them off away? [Speaker 3] (34:59 - 35:01) Or, you know what I mean? [Speaker 2] (35:01 - 35:05) Like, what is, what's your process of dealing with things that are uncomfortable? [Speaker 1] (35:06 - 35:09) Yeah, no, that's right. Absolutely, man. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (35:10 - 35:27) No, say, and like you said earlier, like part of it is also like, yeah, you have to find the information within, but it doesn't mean you can fully discount good teachers. You know, like there are people out there that have trailblazed before you. [Speaker 3] (35:27 - 35:28) Yeah, no, absolutely. [Speaker 2] (35:29 - 35:38) Some teachers I've had who I didn't respect a hundred percent, but I still, I didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I got what I got from that. And it's, it's part of the journey. [Speaker 1] (35:38 - 36:14) And this is the thing I find like everyone wants one, the source of the truth. And when they get that source of truth, if all of a sudden that source of truth has something that's counter to a position within themselves, then they would, they will, they will chuck it out. Right. They, they ultimately will chuck it out. And they'll look for the ultimate other one source of truth. That's in perfect. You know what I mean? Correlation with, with them that doesn't, that doesn't step on their uncomfortabilities or doesn't, doesn't force them to, you know what I mean? Face anything that. You mean they, they don't want to face. [Speaker 3] (36:14 - 36:14) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (36:15 - 36:46) We have such an antipathy for knowledge. Like ultimately the way I feel is that we're in an attention span epidemic as well. You know what I mean? People want that instant gratification, that instant satisfaction, instant satisfaction. They want to read four or five lines. You know what I mean? They open a book. They can't even read one page. They've got, they've got to close it. It's too much. I've got to get my phone out. I'm going to scroll through Instagram. You know what I mean? I'm not willing to go to go to that deeper point as of yet. I'm not willing to learn anything new, which might bring about a new experience within myself, which can change me. [Speaker 2] (36:47 - 37:32) Yeah. And they're just, they're afraid of the introspective process, you know, and you know, something I do on my Instagram show with Gavin is just like questions, you know, how are people asking themselves the right questions, you know, in order to bring up these things to, to grapple with things within themselves. If you're not asking yourself questions, then it's like, then what you're just going along like, oh, my mom and my dad did this and that's what I'm doing. And I would learn this in this one book or this one religion. And this is how I'm going to live my life. And it's like, life's not as simple as that. You have to grapple with ideas externally, internally, and be like, yo, what, well, what's, what's right. You know, what feels right. Like the truth. Like we say we're here for the truth, but it's not, it's a messy process. [Speaker 1] (37:32 - 37:34) It is. It is a messy process. [Speaker 2] (37:35 - 38:14) You have to go. You're going through. A transformational process. You're exploring different ideas. You're going, you know what? I'm actually not going to listen. What's on CNN news or sky news or whatever, whatever the news stations by you. I'm actually going to like read this book by this researcher, by this doctor, by this philosopher who I've never been seen. I've never seen this person on the news. And yet this person is really intelligent as a lot to say. So what does this person have to say? Like, I'm curious about that. So to anyone who's watching, it's like, you, you have to be curious about what else is out there and still be skeptical and question what you've been taught to believe. [Speaker 1] (38:15 - 38:51) Definitely. And I love what you're saying. I think there's something that actually underlies and underpins the issue, which prevents people from actually asking those questions. And it's that they don't actually have the time or the space within their lives because of the laws that they've built around them. And for them, they've got perfectly catered to them to actually ask those questions. Right. They're out there. You know what I mean? Doing their doing, doing their nine to five men, you know what I mean? Coming home tired as hell, whether they got kids or whatnot, you know what I mean? But from that point, they just want to numb. They're not going to drink it away. They're going to watch it away. You know what I mean? [Speaker 2] (38:51 - 39:02) Yeah. All the rest of Netflix, everything. And then we can warriors. It's like, all right, let me get fucked up on Friday and Saturday night, Sunday. I got to go back to work. I hate my job. And the cycle continues. [Speaker 1] (39:02 - 39:04) Yeah, no, absolutely, man. [Speaker 2] (39:05 - 39:13) Yeah. I mean, you hit the nail on the head because you know, it's like, I talk about that with people. It's like, well, not everyone has the space, you know, that's why. And that's why you got to create the space. [Speaker 1] (39:14 - 39:15) That's why the first step is creating that space. [Speaker 2] (39:16 - 39:50) Yeah. But also not everyone is going to go down all the, all these rabbit holes of research. You know, sometimes it's just having space within yourself to take in information from any people that you trust and stay open, you know, like, like all this stuff you've gone down and research and learn. Like, I don't know if I'm going to do all of that stuff and the same thing with you, vice versa. But I just think on some level there has to be that thing within the individual where they go, okay, like, what's my thing? How do I open myself? How do I still question what I'm seeing on the tube in front of me? You know, they call it TV programming for a reason. [Speaker 3] (39:50 - 39:51) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (39:51 - 39:52) It's literally programming your mind. [Speaker 3] (39:53 - 39:53) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (39:53 - 40:05) So, you know, part of, I think part of being here for the truth is taking that fucking thing in front of you and tossing it out the window. It doesn't mean you can't watch your occasional show. And you know, I like my occasional shows. [Speaker 1] (40:05 - 40:13) I'm like, you know, it's more of a mindful process. It's you, you choosing as to oppose it being chosen for you. [Speaker 3] (40:14 - 40:14) Right. [Speaker 1] (40:14 - 40:32) And that really comes back to changing the positing from, you know what I mean? From the collective to the self, you know what I mean? I make those decisions for myself willingly and I'll live or die by those decisions. And either way, I'm going to learn something, but ultimately I'll put that on myself and I trust myself through that and through those choices. [Speaker 2] (40:34 - 40:35) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (40:35 - 40:43) Yeah. How are we doing on time? What do we got? I'm not sure, man. I have not been timing it at all, but I feel like that's a, that's a good, really good start. [Speaker 2] (40:44 - 40:45) Yeah. Yeah. I think so too. [Speaker 1] (40:46 - 40:50) Yeah. All right. Well, should we call it there for now? [Speaker 2] (40:51 - 41:18) Yeah. I mean, listen, well, this is going to be a show that we plan on doing. I mean, maybe every week, every couple of weeks, we may in the future have different people on that are experts or. Experts in their field, or also just people that have something to offer people that have challenges, status quo, people that are really, really interested in seeking the truth. And that's what we want to do with this show is we want to explore the truth. We want to present ideas and ways of thinking that maybe are a little different. [Speaker 1] (41:19 - 41:51) No, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, we're just, we're just two guys that, you mean have, have similar perspectives and similar foundations on, you know what I mean? And we want to have that discussion and discourse and to share that. We're just getting our feet wet on this, on this first one. We'll try and get things more organized and maybe structured going down the path. But yeah, man, it was such a pleasure to have this conversation with you and to, and to share this. And so, I mean, I'm looking, really looking forward to, to exploring all these topics deeper. [Speaker 2] (41:51 - 41:56) Yeah, it's going to be fun. So we'll, we'll see what comes up next time. All right. Take everyone. And we'll see you. [Speaker 1] (41:57 - 41:59) Sounds good. See you guys. Bye.