Ben Mitchell Freedom & Activism in Music

[Speaker 2] (0:00 - 2:35) You are now listening to the Here for the Truth podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Erasmus Stilionesis. All right, everybody, welcome to episode 43 of Here for the Truth podcast. As always, I'm your co-host Joel Rafiti with a friend in Topanga, California, Erasmus Stilionesis. Before we get into it, for all your divination needs, check out joelrafiti.com. If you're after specific human design readings or you're in the LA area and require some body work from an incredible trauma-informed practitioner, check out Erasmus. Now, today, we have a good friend of mine, someone who's doing incredible things out there in the climate and in the heat of what's going on. It's quite incredible, actually. Today, we have Ben Mitchell, an Australian singer-songwriter and freedom activist. Beyond writing and recording protest songs and freedom rally cries in early 2020, just as the pandemic was kicking into tyrannical swing, Mitchell established the Friends of Truth channel for sharing censored and non-mainstream news. This culminated in him being invited to speak and perform at the first ever Millions March Against Mandatory Vaccination Rally held on the Gold Coast in early 2021. Shout out to the Millions March team. Ironically, Friends of Truth has since been self-censored, de-platformed from the major social media channels including Facebook, Instagram, Linktree and Patreon, although it is still active on Telegram. In June 2021, Ben released his latest album, Are You Gonna Be Free?, a collection of uplifting and inspiring songs written in response to the unprecedented tyranny and oppression sweeping the globe. In October 2021, and without notification or explanation, Bandcamp, a popular website for independent musicians to sell their music, also de-platformed Mitchell. Wow, bro, you're notorious at this point, man. Following the release of Free the Nation, a folk song celebrating the countless freedom keepers across the planet standing up for basic human rights, in the same month, Ben founded Free the Nation Music, a movement bringing together musicians and music fans who stand for freedom, who stand against discrimination based on medical history, and who refuse to perform or attend segregated shows. That's a platform I'm incredibly honoured to be part of as a musician myself. Ben, thank you for everything you're doing. Thank you for being here for the truth, man. What's going on? [Speaker 1] (2:37 - 3:17) Well, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for all you're doing, guys. And, you know, I think it's an interesting thing, isn't it, that we're being empowered really by what's happening. You know, we try to monetise some of what we do, of course. You've got your Patreon and all that. But we're doing it despite that. It's not a business decision, that's for sure. We are empowered to act as men, as souls, as spirits. And in many ways, it is the great awakening, both individually and collectively. So in some ways, I'm very grateful for what's happening because it's bringing out the best and other aspects in all of us. [Speaker 2] (3:17 - 4:01) Oh, I 100% echo everything that you just said. And I mean, this is kind of echoed across the board with many people that we have these discussions with, particularly those that find themselves on an authentic path. The last two years have, in a sense, been the best of their life, right? It's forced us to make decisions that are really, truly in alignment with our core morals, our core values, and really pushing what's real to the forefront. At the same time, while all the illusion and the falsity and the lies of the world are becoming so obvious and more and more obvious by the day. It's a crazy time to be alive. And personally, I didn't think that I'd be here to experience such a time. But, you know, we're here now, man. [Speaker 1] (4:02 - 6:12) I was saying in another interview recently that I never thought I'd get the opportunity to be a music activist by default, in a way, just by following my heart and speaking my truth. And that's what's happened with the founding of the Free the Nation Music. And I did a post saying, I'm one person who, one musician who is not going to play discriminated, segregated shows. And I stand against the notion that everyone has to be jabbed with an experimental injection in order for our freedoms to be granted back to us. They are our freedoms and the tyrannical governments that stand in the way of those are all that need to get out of the way for us to go back to normal. So, you know, I put my name out there and thought, well, maybe I'll be the only one and maybe I'll likely never work in the music establishment again. But that was a powerful moment because I remember the feeling of that. And it was really crossing a threshold and you can't go back. And wherever you go forward, there'll be surprises. And I was wonderfully surprised when my friend Lucius Boric was the first to put his hand up and say, you know where I stand, Ben. And so I put his name on and then more like you, Joel. And you know what? I've got to say this straight off the bat, man, your music is fantastic. It's so it's obviously someone you are someone who's incorporated your values deeply into your art. And you hear that. And it's so inspirational. And there's so many like you at Free the Nation Music. And suddenly I went from thinking, who am I ever going to make music with? There's no one out there to I've got this amazing band. We all share values. We're not the same. Of course, we're all different people, but we share these core values of freedom and choice and things like that. It seemed basic to us. And there's all these other musicians who are just the same. Again, we are all different, but they share those core values of freedom and respect. And they seem so basic to me that I'm astonished pretty much daily by anyone who can proudly say, I will tell you what to do with your body before I make music for you. Which is what they say when they say, I'm playing this segregated show. [Speaker 3] (6:13 - 6:29) Hey, Ben, what led you to being the person to put your hand up and being like, this is what I stand for. This is what I'm going to do. And this is how I want to move forward as a musician. Like, what was it in your past, your knowledge or your upbringing that kind of led you to being the man you are? [Speaker 1] (6:31 - 11:53) I'd say like for all of us, it's not an isolated event. It is a series of events and a series of awakenings. There's lots of hero's journeys, which you guys are aware of that we go on every day as a hero's journey. And then that hero's journey can be applied across phases of our life. And then eventually, perhaps our whole life. I remember reading a book called Miracles by Stuart Wild. It was gifted to me by a friend when I said, I want to go and chase my dream of doing music in England. I'm going to go to London. I was born in Manchester. My parents are Australian, but I was born there. So I thought it would be easy for me to go back. But I didn't have any money at the time. And I didn't know how I was going to make it happen. I was writing lots of music and I was sort of finding my voice as a songwriter in my late 20s. And she said, oh, I think you might like this book. And I read this book and it was basically Stuart Wild's philosophy. He's gone to the other side now, but he's one of my favorite authors on the sort of spiritual evolution, metaphysical quantum field, if you will. But basically, it all boils down to detachment from programming by what he refers to it as TikTok, the world of TikTok, which we might say the matrix now almost or something, you know, but the things that lock you in and to liberate yourself from needing to do it the way it's done. And also the need to limit yourself, which we are conditioned to believe in. So this is sort of it's a very short book. But it really did my heading because I was so attached to certain ideas and ways of thinking that when this new liberating philosophy is presented in a very clear and easy to read at least way, it challenges you. But there was a hope and there was an energy in it that I thought I really related to. And so then I ended up reading most of his stuff. And of course, I've read lots of other people over the years. And so I was open to learning. I was open to growing. And I certainly I tried things that didn't seem to work out at the time. I got into drugs and I opened my mind in that way. But it's just sort of it's sort of a shortcut that you pay other prices for, I believe, if you're not ready for it. You know, it's all about processing your shadow and and going into take responsibility for yourself. And of course, there are things like inherited traumas, ancestral traumas and things like that that take a long time to become aware of. But I was I was searching for a long time. I'm still searching, of course. But but but I guess owning up to my my values publicly is something that I eased into through music, writing songs, sort of almost not hiding it. But it was the place where I felt I could be myself the most. And, you know, because I was I was an actor as well. And when you're an actor, well, you're acting, aren't you? You're using other people's words. You're taking other people's direction. Wayne Dyer used to talk about this, you know, you move from being an actor to a writer, to a director, to a producer of your life. And that's what we do now, you know. So but in the music for me was where I got to be myself or experiment with being more vulnerable about what I truly felt. The turning point most recently was when the government tried to force people to self suffocate. They with the media came up with this idea that people should wear face masks. And I just but none of that none of that made any sense to me, nor did it seem wholesome and a wholesome idea or in any way empowering. It only seemed to be a step towards tyranny. I wouldn't have used that word back then. But, you know, it's it's a tyrannical thing to impose this suffocation. And we can go into all the, you know, back and forth about they said, you know, you don't need them. These studies show and that and I've gone down that and I've shared lots of studies and got deleted. That study got deleted because it said they don't do anything. And they only make you have more carbon dioxide, etc, etc. Anyway, maybe we should be careful you guys on YouTube. But that was the thing. I was just like, I'm not standing for that. So I didn't have any channels. I just had my music channel and I got on there and I said, hey, I don't think this is right. And I live in a small town. And I said, we need to stand up for the children. It's not just at that time. It was up to 12 or maybe it was even 16. But I said, 16 year olds are still growing. They need all the oxygen they can get. We need to stand up for them, you know. And that was the start of getting the other side of the other point of view hurled at you pretty hard and fast. And the start of really growing the muscle to stand in my own truth, despite those attacks. And yeah. [Speaker 2] (11:55 - 12:50) Wow, man. I hear you completely, bro. And there's no doubt the last two years has been a hardcore workout in growing the discernment and the muscle necessary to stand deeper in truth. And I love what you echo just creatively. That is the primary outlet even before all this for us to express our deeper truths, our deeper sentiments. So, like, as musicians, we've kind of already been, for the most part, attuned to expressing ourselves and expressing our truth, you know. And then just these catalyzing events just, I guess, exacerbates it all to the next level in a kind of way. So, can you explain for our audience, from your perspective, the real devastating effects that this has had on the music industry in particular, from your experience and from discussions with other musicians and just your knowledge? Sure. [Speaker 1] (12:50 - 16:36) Well, the most obvious way is the gigs that have stopped. So, as an independent musician and with the state of digital share allocation, shall we say, live music is still the main income stream for lots of musicians. And I was doing gigs. We're in New South Wales now, and I was in Victoria up until the beginning of the year. And I was doing gigs last year. It was on February 15th or 16th. It was a Valentine's Day gig. It was a charity gig as well, so I didn't get paid. It was at a pub in Healesville. And I've been doing lots of gigs at wineries and things like that up until that point. But that all stopped. And I'm not the only one, of course. There are the bigger tours and lots of festivals that were called off. So, it's a very cunning plan. It's very obvious to me that it's planned. And when they decided to use the musicians to encourage other people to get injected, it was very obvious that they starved out not just the musicians but the music fans as well. We need to hear music. It's part of life. We make music for a reason or for many reasons. And some of those reasons are because it enlivens our soul and spirit and connects us and lets us release certain mental attachments that don't serve us. You know, frustrations being an obvious one or whatever. Anger, perhaps. Sorrow. All these things, these emotions and these attachments can be explored in a healthy way through music. Hey, thank God we've got the blues, right? That's what it's all about. So, you take that away from not just the musicians but the people as well. And there's an unnatural state that you've put most of humanity into. And there's this tension here. There's this tension. And people will do anything to release that tension. And you want me to do what? You want me to, okay, well, I had a flu shot last year. I never did. But, you know, speaking for someone, I might as well get this one if it means we can go back to music. And you should get it too. And this is where the energy comes from, right? And you should get it too because then we're going to get back, right? And this pointing the finger because someone is doing something they don't really want to do, not from a holistic point. Because if you do, if you're motivated from a true place, you don't care what other people are doing. I'm doing this. This is right for me. You're not? No worries, you know. I'm having a steak and I love a steak. You should have a steak too. You don't say that. If you're happy, I want your steak, you know. I'll have all the steaks, right? I don't want everyone to have a steak. I don't want anyone to have the shots. I want to make sure there's lots of shots for me. So you shouldn't get it. I really believe in it. So I want them all. No, that's not the mental, that's not the process that goes on, is it? So we have this, you know, psychologists will talk about the group dynamic and how some of the group will do what they're told. Some will never do what they're told. And in the middle, we'll sort of figure out what's the best thing. We'll sort of go along to get along, as Jason Christophe always says, you know, go along to get along. So there's a lot of this going, you know, we are overrun with going along to get along at the moment. And again, as musicians, we've empowered ourselves with a bit of that muscle that is, no, I'm going to do my own thing, you know. You know, Joel writes his songs, I write my songs, you know, like we do our thing. And so we've got some empowerment already. And that's what was surprising to me, that there wasn't, that more musicians weren't in touch with that part of themselves. Or if they were, that they hadn't got yet to a place where they were really connected with love and acceptance rather than judgment and force. Yeah. [Speaker 3] (16:36 - 16:54) Yeah. I love that you gave a little shout out to Jason Christophe. We had him on the show episode, I think it was 26. And he's someone I got a lot of respect for and what he's been doing in Canada and speaking out truth against power for a long time. So it's good to know. [Speaker 1] (16:54 - 17:23) Yeah. He's tireless, man. Jason is just what a workhorse he is and what a great energy he's bringing. I actually did his self-sabotage course to be a self-sabotage coach. That was one of the first things I did after discovering him when we were in lockdown, though we didn't really follow the lockdown rules. We still went and visited my parents on the coast and did things. But that was a really useful thing. I did his course and it was great. [Speaker 3] (17:23 - 17:45) I actually signed up for his first course that was supposed to be in Canada. And it was March 25th, 2020. So it got canceled. I literally did it because I wanted to just go and connect and be in Canada and meet other people. It didn't work. So I still have it. I haven't really gone through it. But I'm obviously a fan of the work. And it's the field that I'm in as well in various ways. But, yeah, it's cool, man. I like the connection. It's great. [Speaker 2] (17:45 - 18:04) Well, I mean, it's so relevant, isn't it? Particularly just understanding the adult child and the psychology of the adult child. Because what are we seeing now everywhere around us, right? People choosing safety, safety over logic, over common sense, over everything else as the primary motivator. I mean, this is what they're prying on. [Speaker 1] (18:05 - 19:15) And it's not even physical. Sorry. It's not even physical safety, Joel, is it? It's a mental safety. If I don't do this, I won't be attacked mentally. Or they won't call me names. Or I won't be isolated from the herd or that sort of thing. It's actually they're putting their safety, their physical safety at risk. It reminds me of the story. Our girls go to a bush kinder. And there was one assistant there. And I went on this canoe trip with them. And I think someone had an orange peel or banana peel. And I threw it into the bush. And she was like, oh, you shouldn't do that. Because that's not Indigenous fruit to the region. So it's disrespectful to the ecology. I go, okay. And then about a week or two later, I found out that she'd had the jab. And I thought to myself and another mate, well, she's not really respecting her ecology, is she? The projection more concerned about the rate of decomposition of an orange in a bush than who knows what going into the body forever. It's a real disconnect. [Speaker 2] (19:16 - 19:53) Yeah, man. This is the nature of self-sabotage. Absolutely at play. And this also comes, from my perspective, it comes down to self-love as well. Because when we come from a place that's lacking self-love, then we're looking to stand up for any cause other than our own cause. We're looking to protect everything and defend anyone except what matters most. So it's just these. And that's what they feed us. They feed us these pseudo virtues that we should go and stand up for. Anything to keep us denying what's really important and denying who we are and recognizing that and connecting with that. [Speaker 1] (19:54 - 19:58) Beautiful. Beautiful, Joel. Oh, yes. Those pseudo virtues. I like that one, mate. [Speaker 2] (19:58 - 20:39) That's good. Yeah, man. And let's revisit what you mentioned around, obviously, these mandates around concerts and whatnot. It is shocking to me as well how little of the creative community is actually willing to stand up and make their voices be heard around these issues. Particularly artists and musicians who claim to be individuals and be independent and be themselves. And they express themselves these ways. But then all of a sudden, in the face of where you're forced to actually be an individual, you're going to crumble and you're going to capitulate. Why? [Speaker 3] (20:40 - 21:14) Wasn't it just recently that Rage Against the Machine, they had a concert for the jabbed only. And it's like, are you serious? When you think about what they stood for and their lyrics and the musics, and you literally have people that signed up for this global human experiment so they can get their pretty little four by six card, at least here in the US, show up to this concert and then scream at the top of your lungs. Fuck you. I won't do what you tell me. Like, you can't see the irony in that. And that's the level of mind control and subconscious programming that we're dealing with. [Speaker 1] (21:14 - 23:50) We are. And together with what you said, Joel, about the lack of self-love. So it's all there. You can see it. The lack of self-love and lots of artists, almost all, you could say, come initially from a place of insecurity and a lack of self-love. And they need to find something. And music is often the way they find into that self-love or acceptance. And sometimes they never really get it. And I'm still in that process myself of really accepting and loving myself and valuing myself just as I am. So what you've got, if you've got all these psychological types, let's not call them musicians for this conversation right now, a psychological type, which is an injured or someone who has a trauma who is trying to escape from that trauma by art. Yep. Then you have a system of media and government that trains those people to apply for grants, to present a certain image that will elevate them in the industry, that present certain ideas. They must adhere to these pseudo-virtues that you said, whatever the fuck they are this month, you can go on to the list, climate, Black Lives, whatever they want to come up with to plug into that self-hatred and project it on, I'll help and save someone else. So you have to show, so you're moulding them to have this, to be little drones of what they need to present if they want to do what they do, which is make music. And nowhere in the world that I've experienced is that more intense than in Melbourne, that conditioning to groupthink to be part of the Triple J, the Triple R, PBS, all that. I loved community radio, it was an outlet for me when commercial radio wasn't, but it does, it has all those conditioning and conditions on it. You must be a certain way, if you're a certain genre, you've got to do it this way. And it's what music to me was liberating and opening up, and over the years it's closed and closed and closed, and you've got to be more like this, and well you're never going to get a grant if you say that, and you're never going to go on the project if you think that, all that stuff. So they were all right for being told what to do by the government. [Speaker 2] (23:51 - 26:17) And you've hit the nail on the head, I'm getting a big energetic response to what you're sharing. I mean, particularly in the initial phases of becoming a musician and being a creative and sharing music, the entire premise is approval, right? It's crowd approval, someone listen, yeah exactly. Someone tell me I'm good, someone tell me, yeah. And I mean, this is what they're clinging to, absolutely more than anything else, you know, so it's really just that carrot dangling on the stick for everything that's going on now. Absolutely, man. And yeah, bro, I hear what you're saying as well, completely around the triple Js. I mean, I had a really early awakening to all of this. I felt like my career was taking off around 2015, 2016, getting a lot of publicity, dropped my first album, got invited to do interviews on Today FM. And I get there and this guy just wants to talk about the most petty drama, current event stuff. It was just ridiculous. And I'm like, I don't want to talk about this shit, right? And they literally, they never aired the interview. And that was my big awakening to the mainstream music scene. And that's when I was like, fuck that shit, man, I'm going to make music for me and do what I want to do and present it that way. But I had a big dark night of the soul from that as well, because now I'm like, oh, I don't have the approval of the industry, the approval of mainstream society and pop culture and all the rest of it. So I stopped making music for a while and I went on my own path until I realized that what's the point of being creative if I'm not willing to express my deepest, my most core truths, you know? So, man, I started writing songs that were very controversial early on. Like, I've been writing songs talking about 9-11, Flu Ride, Moon Landings, Chemtrails since 2016, 2017. And you put this stuff out there in the beginning and everyone's like, back then, it's like, what the hell is this guy talking about, you know? But these songs now have half an illusion as half a million plays on Spotify. So it's almost like the time catches up. And this is why it's so important just to listen to what you – when you are in a creative mode, tune into what actually wants to be said, you know? Like, stop writing for someone else. Stop making music for approval. The reason we're here in the first place to be creative is to express ourselves in an individualistic way. And this is what really we need to get back to as musicians. So, yeah, that's my rant for a little bit. [Speaker 1] (26:17 - 26:42) Beautiful job. No, not a rant at all. A really helpful sharing for everyone who's listening. It's so important. And what you touched on was by being true to yourself, now you've got a song with 500 million plays on Spotify, which is not a platform which is going to be doing you any favours, I don't think. They're not going to be putting you on the – so if they were, if they were doing you the odd favour like they do for lots of people, you know, it might be millions and millions of plays. [Speaker 2] (26:44 - 26:49) Sorry, that never hit a major playlist. Never hit a major playlist on Spotify, those songs. [Speaker 1] (26:50 - 28:03) You know, that's what's so exciting. Fuck, man, I'm serious. This is what we are on. I feel like a gift that I'm part of this Free the Nation music movement and this freedom music movement because it's so natural for a start, but also it's where all the cool shit is happening. It really is. The music coming out. Look at Jimmy Levy with his number one on the – two on the hip-hop and rap charts or whatever, right? Yeah. And again, he's not on any big playlists, right? And just this is a war, his song he's singing about, right? So, and there's lots of people – five times August, you know, his songs are getting lots of – Brad, getting lots of plays and he's really outspoken too, but beautiful songs. You know, Jesus, What Happened to Us and other ones. I Won't Go Quietly, what are the exact songs? But, you know, we've got real passion and real love and real connectivity behind the musicians who are writing this material and speaking out. What the fuck can you write about on the other side? Yeah. I want to go to do a gig. You better get double jab. So what? My little gruff thing never hurt anyone. [Speaker 3] (28:04 - 28:31) Yeah. It's like this whole duality of faith over fear. I feel like the group on one side that is, you know, saying yes to freedom and love and creativity and connection. It's like the music that can come out of that is just coming from this deep faith in the intelligence of the body and the intelligence of the psyche, et cetera, et cetera. And like you said, like what's coming on the other side, like fear based music, which is not going to really serve humanity, in my opinion. [Speaker 2] (28:32 - 29:07) Well, I mean, as well as that is trying to make music to continue to facilitate, to use the word again, this pseudo reality, which is just completely ignorance of the truth of what's going on. Like, how can you even be in the position to still talk about other shit? You know what I mean? Or how is it still relevant on any level in the midst of what's actually going on? Right. But this is just exemplifying the individual ignoring the shadow is the collective ignoring the shadow. So they're just maintaining and propping up this reality that is is useless and is meaningless in the face of everything that's going on at the moment. [Speaker 1] (29:08 - 30:38) And I guess that the challenge for us with a different perspective is to maintain compassion and humility, too, with that different perspective. You know, I'm getting a bit carried away, perhaps because I'm passionate about it. And my choices are obvious to me. And I must I must also accept that the others, the other side, if you will, their choices are obvious to them as well, and that their choices fit their paradigm, their worldview. And and that's why it's so important with Free the Nation music, that it is simplified in its philosophy to music for all. You know, no discrimination, no, no exclusion. We're all going through different stuff. If some of that stuff happens to be jab related. OK, there's other stuff we're all going through, too. And the thing about me, what is really exciting is there's every genre is covered in Free the Nation music. So, you know, I've been listening to genres that I don't often listen to and and loving it because because I've been able to find through this filter musicians that may have a different aesthetic, but their their values are more in line with mine. So that speaks to me and nourishes me and I can maybe play it for my children as well. You know, it's got some wholesomeness to it that that is is really, really, really, really good. [Speaker 3] (30:38 - 31:13) Well, I think you can apply that also just in day to day living. Like in the last couple of years, I found myself connecting with people on such a deep level that I maybe normally wouldn't have, you know, because we share these values around this that maybe we didn't run in the same circles or like the same music or whatever the case may be. But there's this deep soul connection of like, man, we see the world in the same way. And that's that's a beautiful thing. So, yeah, it's cool to see that from a musical standpoint. But even just in day to day life, it's it's been amazing to witness. Like I have such amazing friends I've met in the last two years that are like family to me now. [Speaker 2] (31:14 - 32:00) I love it, man. I mean, even talking to Siaka a few episodes ago, right in the in the acting world, there's also there's also what do you call it? Real Hollywood or something like that? The new Hollywood being being birthed out of the same kind of premise that that your music platform is, you know, which is the truth and non-segregation and non-discrimination, because we're in the midst of all these actors and studio workers, et cetera, being forced off set for not wanting to comply, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So in the midst of chaos, there's always seeds that are planted and seeds that are watered and nurtured with the right material without bypassing any steps. You know, it's quite an exciting time for the creative industry in all of this as well, despite how dim things may seem at times. [Speaker 1] (32:01 - 35:06) Yeah, we're very lucky. There's this like this filter or a sieve that the world's going in and and, you know, all the chunky stuff that I guess that's a good way to think about it. The chunky energy that's not porous and flowing, you know, gets stuck there and and separate something separates and goes something that's far finer and more delicate comes through. And so we've got this sieve that we've got that is allowing us to make and to, you know, different ages, different continent, whatever that's, you know. But so the thing that the arts industry used to present as doing as bringing us together with like minds and values, you know, you see a movie with certain values in it that. Love story or whatever, hero's story, you know, doing good for the for himself, which affects the community in a positive way, that sort of stories. We're actually getting to the real story, the reality of living that we're all really being the heroes now, you know, standing up. You could have, Joel, at that crossroads gone. Oh, you want me to talk about that to sell my album? Okay, I'll talk about that. No worries. And then you've made a choice and then you just keep going. I've had those moments too many times where I've been offered a different path. And for whatever reason, I'm lucky that I didn't choose it. Maybe it's because early on in the early days I did, you know, when I was an actor, I was on Neighbours and that's when I got into drugs, you know, because I was just trying to please everyone. I was just do whatever I had to be the clown of the party, the metaphorical clown, you know, like, yeah, I'll do that. Yeah, I'll do that. Yeah, I'll go crazy. I'll do all that that no one would do in one night. And then brain fried and, you know, and years of what's going on, walking through the wilderness, like, I don't know where I am really, but I'll put on this mask and I'm fit and I'll work out and I'll be in Dolly magazine and I'll do Blue Steel look and I'll get fan letters. And, you know, like, it's also all this superficial stuff, but I went through it. So what I was blessed with that I got into it. Another thing I think it was Stuart Wild who also said was, you know, whatever you're doing, do it. You know, if you're doing drugs, do the drugs, get into them. If you're doing alcohol, whatever. If you're doing sport, if you're doing sex, you know, promiscuity, do it. Get into it because then you get you come out of it, have the experience, have the experience, live the experience, embrace the experience, own the experience, you know, and then you can then rather than, you know, what I say, what you resist, persist. So don't resist it. I'm not saying I'm not recommending all these things, by the way, right? I'm not recommending if they're not if you don't not call to them. They did great. You know, if you came to do yoga and just get better at your asanas, then fantastic. You know, you have a deep meditation. You don't need all this chunky stuff that some of us have come to experience. But that's it. [Speaker 3] (35:06 - 35:13) I don't think my wife is going to like what you just said, but we'll continue. I'm just kidding. I'm making a joke. Okay. Okay. [Speaker 1] (35:15 - 35:15) You're right. [Speaker 3] (35:15 - 36:01) I actually agree with you there, man. I do. Like, there's something about being full on and having the experience, even this idea of just our emotions, you know, like, have the experience of the emotions. As opposed to being like, like, no, everything's fine. Everything's great. I don't experience any emotion. I'm just on the top of the mountain meditating 24-7. And it's like, no, get into it. Like, even when I think about with my wife, like, we have a good relationship, but sometimes it's like, let's, you know, like, if you're triggered, like, tell me how you feel, you know, like, tell me to fuck myself. And I'm like, all right, fuck. And then we have it. And then we have enough self-awareness to go back and process what was my role in that. And then we can talk about it and go to a next level of depth. As opposed to, like, let's just, like, walk on eggshells around everything. Like, everything's fine. No, we need to feel that. All the different parts of us. [Speaker 1] (36:02 - 36:46) Yeah. And you're lucky that you found a companion who you can do that with because that's vital. You know, we are mirrors to each other. And sometimes we're going to mirror something that might make us uncomfortable or trigger us. And fuck, that's the goal. Go into it, you know. Who cares if there's never hair out of place? I love it. My mirror is perfect. Hello, mirror. Let's have a nice day. Yes, you have a nice day. Do we have a nice day? We have a nice day. Let's do it again tomorrow. Are you having a nice morning? Yes, it's beautiful. Oh, that's good. See you tomorrow. Sounds pretty boring, doesn't it? What are you doing there? What are you fucking doing there? Oh, what do you mean, what am I doing? What are you doing? Well, let's get into it. Oh, there we go. There's life. [Speaker 3] (36:46 - 36:57) You speak my language, man. I love it. I love getting into it and just, like, feeling and having deep conversations and working through shit and taking responsibility when I'm a fucking dickhead, you know, I think it's good. [Speaker 2] (36:58 - 37:38) I mean, it's just signposts of the authentic part, right? I mean, Nietzsche said that life is a struggle. Life is a struggle, right? I mean, we can't really ignore that. On the most fundamental level, it is struggle, but authenticity helps. Meaning helps. Purpose helps. You know what I mean? The connection with self helps. And this is just the experience that we're having, but we can never possibly ignore what's actually going on. And, like, the discussion we're having, ignoring our emotions, ignoring the reality, is just conducive of ignoring things that are happening on the collective level. And this is just what we've been conditioned and primed to do for such a long time. [Speaker 1] (37:38 - 38:45) I read a really interesting post about what just happened in that concert overseas where some people unfortunately died. And this guy, Alex, I think his name is, on Facebook, he had a great insight into how they are using this as to normalise death. So the idea expressed in this post was that people are still enjoying the music as dead people, people dying around them. I haven't seen it a lot, but I'm just going by what I've heard. But I really related to what he was saying about this normalisation of death, because it's very likely that we're already having young people dying, athletes dying, people dying in situations that they wouldn't normally. They're starting to promote this idea of heart issues are normal in teenagers. They're promoting this. So they're preparing us, it seems to be, for some preparation for normalising death all around us and that we should just ignore it. But, of course, it's not necessarily what we should be doing. Pay some attention to it. [Speaker 2] (38:46 - 39:11) Yeah. I mean, that was wild. If we want to go there, that whole Travis Scott Astroworld debacle. I mean, not even I've properly looked at everything that really went down. But just from the outset, there's no doubt that this was very ritualistic, very satanic, very, very sacrificial and very intentional, simply from my perspective. What are your thoughts on the whole thing? I don't know how much you've seen about it. [Speaker 3] (39:11 - 39:51) Well, honestly, I didn't really get into it until I think it was yesterday or two days ago. I saw someone post something about like they commented he wants to stop the concert for losing his shoe, but not for people dying or something. And I was like, wait, what? What happened? I don't even know. But then last night, I have a friend of mine who's an amazing musician who's staying with us. And we got into it. We had a conversation and we kind of talked about the similar things that you're saying, Joel, about like, it's like the vibe. It's like this young kid and this music feels really intense. And then they're just like packing people in there where you can't even like you wouldn't be able to reach your hand up, you know? So if you just fell, like if you fell, you'd have to get back literally immediately or you're trampled. Yeah. So I haven't gone too much into it. [Speaker 2] (39:51 - 39:52) There's footage of the whole crowd. [Speaker 3] (39:53 - 39:53) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (39:54 - 40:03) There's footage of the whole crowd screaming, help me, help me, help us, help us, stop the music, stop the music. And this guy's just standing there smiling like this, almost like there was planning And everyone with their cameras up. [Speaker 3] (40:03 - 40:24) And then also, I think one woman actually or one girl, I don't know how old she was, she was telling the people on the cameras, like, point the cameras here. And people were like yelling at her and like making fun of her for like trying to stop the concert or to bring attention to what was happening. So that's the that's pretty much all I have. I haven't gone down and looked at more videos or read articles, but it's just it's tragic. [Speaker 1] (40:25 - 41:43) Interesting what you say about the picking on the person who's trying to bring attention to what's happening. You know, it's a microcosm of the macrocosm at the moment, isn't it? It's like what's happening in that people are dying that don't need to die. But again, that takes us on to something. And I went to a retreat weekend and came up on the retreat in discussion about this concept of death. And and I think it was. You know, this acceptance, this acceptance that we can find that that is the story of those souls, you know, like there's this strange balance we need to find between speaking up and living our truth and creating positively, creating a life in tune with our values and also accepting that everything is perfect already and that anything that happens has happened. And our judgment on it says more about us than the event. So I don't like and you don't like tragedy. We don't like to see what we perceive as unnecessary suffering or death. But philosophically speaking, what the hell what the hell is that? What the hell is unnecessary suffering or death? [Speaker 3] (41:44 - 42:24) Yeah. And and, you know, this is something we talk about often and I actually speak about with a lot of people is, again, it feels like a human arrogance to be like, well, I know how that soul should have experience on this plane. You know, I don't know if we believe the soul is eternal. Like there are now could that could that be a rationalization and a justification to not feel bad and feel human feelings? Maybe on some level you have to find that balance within you as an individual. But there is it's like if I believe in like some soul contract, this person came here to to have this experience and to go through that and see what happens on the other side or as they progress through eternity. You know, but I don't know. You know, it's an interesting thing to contemplate. Like you said, philosophically. [Speaker 1] (42:26 - 44:15) We had to leave. No, you go, man, please. We had to. We didn't have to. So we chose to leave our girls with a babysitter so we could have this weekend. My wife and I and we haven't done anything like that in years, maybe what probably a decade, really, to have two nights away. And I was really emotional and worried. You know, I didn't want to leave the girls, particularly having been in Victoria and with the sort of stuff that's going on out there. You know, we've seen kids masked up, you know, that don't need to be. But anyway, this this oppressive energy that is that we perceive to be out there and. We want I want to protect my children from that and I want to nurture them and I want to be there for them all the time. And I had to come to terms with if I truly trust the universe and and the God spirit, whatever you refer to the intelligence and love of the universe, that is me. Is that just words, Ben, or do you believe it? Because this is your chance to live it. Yeah, the children are going to they're going to and they're going to thrive. We had a babysitter, you know, and it was just that detachment and and trust that I could and I could only find that extra level by being a father, by knowing what it means to love my children so much and want to protect them. And, you know, I die for them, but I don't want it right yet. I want to live for them. And but I had to have that detachment that and trust. Okay, this is this is this is this is good. This is great. They're going to have a good time. You're going to have a good time. Everyone's going to be safe and we're going to come out by growing love and more and more faith. And that's what happened. [Speaker 2] (44:16 - 45:35) Yeah, man. So it's a double-edged sword fatherhood. Sometimes there's no doubt about that. I got two little ones myself and I too am caught in that, you know, I mean, trying to control and trying to, I guess, prevent them from seeing, I guess, you mean the the darker aspects of reality at this point in time and what I expose them to and at the same time recognizing that we are all on our individualistic journeys individualistic paths and there's going to come a time where I'm going to have to trust their experience, right? And trust that whatever they go through and whatever experience they have is is meant for them on some kind of unique karmic level because there's no doubt about it that just in the work that I do and offer in my own personal experience that everything in life is a synchronicity. This is a deeply magical realm and universe that we live in. Everything is intelligent and everything is by design, you know, and really truly truly applying that as a father is yeah, there's a crossroads that you make yourself at sometimes in that regard, you know, but what can we do man? [Speaker 1] (45:36 - 46:37) We can keep turning up, can't we? We can keep turning up for ourselves and for them and connecting and sharing like this, you know, this reminds me it's like a men's circle today and these are important and they have been important throughout time because there's certain perspectives and experiences that believe it or not woke generation only men have and there are certain experiences and perspectives that only women have and that is what is beautiful and sacred about life and the union and when we come together. There are perspectives and experiences that only the union can have so it's recognizing the sacredness of everything and that is challenging when we are presented with situations ideas that don't we can't see the sacredness in politics being one of those for me. [Speaker 2] (46:39 - 48:14) Yeah, man. Absolutely. I mean, I echo a sentiment that we brought up a few episodes ago with Dr. Cassie Huckabee where it's really this conversation is never going to happen again. The three of us sitting here have had having this talk, you know, and really developing and shooting into that kind of presence in all aspects of our lives that every experience is unique and monumental in its own right and how do you bring that into your life? You know, it's such a potent thing. Back to I want to bring this in because I've got another alternative theory potentially to what went down at the whole Travis Scott Astroworld thing because we're seeing the rise of obviously transhumanism of virtual realities of the whole Facebook to meta and the metaverse transition and obviously over this time we've seen popularity increase in virtual concerts in Zoom concerts. We're seeing ABBA doing a virtual concert, right? That they're performing in Australia as holograms and all their video clips. They're all holograms now. So it's for me understanding the nature of false flags. I see the potentiality that this is just another step in the direction of potentially banning actual concerts and banning human interaction and the degradation of that to another level. So I'm wondering your perspective on the music industry in terms of concerts and what you see in terms of the whole virtual phenomena that we're currently experiencing. [Speaker 1] (48:15 - 52:24) I would say you're very perceptive in your perceptions about what's happening because I didn't want to do a Zoom when Zoom started because Zoom went to a billion dollars company or whatever it did, you know, at the start of the pandemic. So it seemed obvious to me that they were pushing us to use this new technology in this way to interact. And of course when you're in the virtual world, it looks like you're together, but you're not really together. There's something different, you know, if we three were in the same room, it would be a different conversation and there would be different things we'd pick up on each other. Smells, body movements, just all sorts of other communication clues that we need and thrive on, right? Just the electricity that we would be connected if when we shook hands or we hugged, you know, our hearts would meet. These meetings need to take place. This connection is vital for our humanity. Speaking from my personal experience, you know, I know the difference between a phone call and a conversation in person, you know, it's not so you can't make connection. You can, of course. But yes, that's obvious, you know, stopping concerts, you know, like I said before about how important music is for our spirit and our soul and our humanity. Stop that. Keep people apart. You know, all the social distancing stuff, obviously training, you know, not bound on any health basis at all. It's just conditioning. Here's a circle. Keep that far apart. We need to be able to identify you with our cameras. And, you know, why would they go back from that? Why would they start to say, OK, come on, get back together now because it's good for you. And we actually know that when your heart's when you're on a bus with someone, you actually have a communication with them, even if you don't say any words and you'll feel really good next to someone and someone else won't make you feel good because there's all this other communication going on and you need to learn about that. And that's going to make you a stronger, better person. You know, no, they're going to just keep pushing, pushing apart. And so, you know, that's the thing with Free the Nation music. It's like, OK, they're going down that route of separation. You know, have you seen those crazy cattle sales or that they have people lining up and people go into it, you know, buy your own building, might as well put it on. It's just crazy that you think you want to. But that shows because it's all mental. I need to be at that concert so I can tell people I went to that concert, not because I want to be at the concert, not because it feels good to lay on the grass and roll around with other people. You know, the idea is why they're there. It's so different. So we just it's going to it's going on. And I don't want to pay much mind, even though I can see that separation and that virtual concert, you know, lots of people doing virtual concerts. I like a musician here. I saw he got he couldn't do his festival gig. And then next thing he's doing a virtual concert. I thought, OK, well, that's good that you're doing something. But can you see what's happening? They've taken that physical gig where you're walking up and you're bumping into fans and you're getting inspiration and your set changes because of all that interaction. You change your first song because someone said something and it's much more powerful. But then you go back into this separated place. And so we're just going to do gigs. We're starting to organise our first festival. I was on Zoom yesterday about doing one in Victoria as well. How are we going to do it so we can stay under the radar, but also bring people together? That's our challenge. But we're up for it and we'll rise to it because people need to come together. We've been doing these gigs just on the streets in Mullumbimby. We've done four and, you know, just seeing kids dance and people smiling and laughing and all these, you know, just normal stuff, which is what happens when people are together and you have conversations you wouldn't expect. You know, on our Zoom meeting, we know who's coming on. But down the street, you see some guy you haven't met before and another friend says, oh, this is so-and-so. You know what I mean? [Speaker 2] (52:25 - 52:25) Oh, yeah. [Speaker 3] (52:25 - 52:59) Absolutely. You know, they're doing that in the acting world too. Like, even though last year people were having acting classes on Zoom and doing plays on Zoom. And I'm like, what? I mean, I get it. You know, some people are just doing it in the moment because they want to still create. But like for that to be normal, get the fuck out of here. You know what I mean? And I say that as someone who was an actor for several years back in the days. And I can't imagine that. Imagine, like, I mean, physical touch is so important. Like, what are you going to do, a love story on Zoom? Like, it's just the weirdest transhuman thing. [Speaker 1] (52:59 - 53:39) Contrast. The contrast setting of your camera and the vignette you have set, it just, oh, and the rate, the video rate that you've set, it moves my heart 60 frames per second. It reminds me of one of my drama lessons when I went to drama college. I went to drama college for about a year and a half before I got a job in a professional television show. So I left, but was just holding, put our hands out and we held each other's hands and we looked into each other's eyes. Now, if you, if we did this, you're asking us if we do this, let's try you and me. [Speaker 3] (53:39 - 53:39) Okay. [Speaker 1] (53:40 - 53:41) Look into my eyes. I'll look into the camera. [Speaker 3] (53:42 - 53:42) Okay. [Speaker 1] (53:42 - 53:44) I can't see nothing, mate. I've got a dead camera. [Speaker 3] (53:45 - 53:52) Well, yeah, if I look in the camera, I just see a camera. I have to look at you, but I'm not really looking at you because the camera's picking up my eyes, so it can't really see and look in the eyes. [Speaker 1] (53:52 - 53:59) Absolutely. So we've got this illusion that we're even looking into each other's eyes. Ben, I love you. I love you too. [Speaker 3] (53:59 - 54:03) I hope we can meet again and touch each other one day. We will. We will. [Speaker 1] (54:03 - 54:08) Because we are giving the energy to that manifestation. So it is written. [Speaker 3] (54:09 - 54:12) I shall fly across the Atlantic and we shall meet and embrace. [Speaker 1] (54:15 - 55:19) See, we're doing our own little play here. Homoeroticism. It's brotherly love. It's brotherly love. It doesn't matter. But my point is, you know, that exercise brought up emotion from these two strangers to each other, drama students. And I still remember it to this day. Doing it, I think it was Tori who I did it with. And I'm a guy from the suburbs, you know, play basketball on Saturdays and get drunk, you know, because that's what you do to be popular. And then you work out because you don't realise what self-sabotage is for decades. But you do it. You're really good at it. And, you know, you come in and then you're just this gentle, this is a person, she was probably a wog to me, right? Skips versus wogs. This is the whole thing. And you've got boundaries that are breaking down because you're touching someone's hand. Yep. We need touch. To Be Touched. I wrote that song many years ago. I think that's on my Stars Can See album. To Be Touched. That was the chorus. [Speaker 3] (55:20 - 55:49) My wife actually did her dissertation on the interrelational dynamics of touch. And it was called Touched by Touching because, you know, it's the one sense when you're touching someone, you're being touched back, you know, and she goes into a much deeper level. But it's how important it is, you know, and they're trying to keep us away from doing that for so long. And it's like so imperative. We're social creatures. Like we need to feel one another and hug and shake hands and laugh and breathe. [Speaker 1] (55:50 - 55:52) It's actually good for our immune system too, apparently. [Speaker 3] (55:53 - 56:22) Yeah. Well, we're getting all these different neurochemicals and, you know, oxytocin and it's so huge for mental health. I mean, this is what we're dealing with when, you know, you read all these articles of all these like people that are teenagers that are committed suicide. I mean, there's so many factors that go into it, but like that need for physical contact. And I tell people, I'm like, listen, like you have a dog, like touch your dog at least, like feel contact, feel that energy because it's just going to bring you joy. It's going to bring you healing energy as well. [Speaker 1] (56:22 - 57:11) So when I, when we were growing up, my brother and I used to beat the shit out of each other is what we say in Australia. We used to beat the living shit out of each other. And so much so that it became a spectator sport for our friends. When we were a bit old, when I first moved out of home, we put all these pillows around the room and they all sat back and said, go for it. And we actually, I think he busted my, my younger brother busted my rib. He was sitting on my chest and his hands like this. You know, you get your strong boy too. But, you know, even fighting and that sort of stuff, you're talking about the teenagers, you know, it's natural, like wrestling and expressing frustrating and, and pushing each other and pulling, you know, these are all natural things you have to go through to, to learn the limits of what is, what you're comfortable with, what other people are comfortable with. You know, like you get up. [Speaker 2] (57:12 - 57:15) I literally, I crave a rumble. I crave rumbling with someone. [Speaker 3] (57:15 - 57:55) Well, there's, there's also within that, like it is all natural, but at the same time, you know, boys conventionally, we're not like, it's not, excuse me, my wife's home. So my dog is barking. We're not conditioned to be like, it's okay to like hang out or you have your guy friend, you're hugging each other. You're holding, you know, in other cultures, you know, men are much more affectionate to one another. So there is this idea that like, because we're starving and craving touch a lot, men find it through violence and through sex. It's like, cause they need that medicine, that medicine of touch. So it's you know, if you don't get it in one way, you're going to try to get it in some other way. [Speaker 1] (57:55 - 58:34) And then, you know, and you're touching on if you, if you repress that natural need or you remove it somehow, then it, it, it gets concentrated and it seeks any sort of release. So therefore you have pornography, right? Which is the, which is something that just totally disempowers men and women for that matter. But it's an outlet because there's so much tension, you know, much like this, you know, the push for people to get jabs so they can go back to work or do what they want, because there's so much pressure put on. I'll do anything, you know, and it's not, it's not the natural, the wholesome or the best thing for us. [Speaker 3] (58:36 - 58:37) 100%. [Speaker 2] (58:37 - 59:10) Yeah. I want to ask you this question because looking back at the music industry, it's tough and it was tough even before this for independent artists, right? I mean, look at Spotify pay rates, Apple music pay rates. It's, it's, it's slave trade kind of, kind of shit, man. So what is the pathway forward for an independent musician? What is the actual pathway forward if someone wants to make a career as a musician and actually get an equal energy exchange financially from your perspective? [Speaker 1] (59:10 - 1:01:45) Well, I don't know is the honest answer, but I think, I don't know, but I think it comes down to this honesty and this transparency that we're sort of sharing and embracing. There needs to be, until people value music, other people, music receivers, and I'm a music fan first before I'm a musician, probably, you know, I think we all were, but we've been conditioned again and trained and for a reason I believe to not value music. $17, you don't even have to pay for Spotify if you have the ads, but you, so you can get music for free pretty much, right? So why would you buy an album anymore? You know, some people still do and there's various reasons why, you know, memento and et cetera and physical political. So we're going to go through, I feel like we're going through part of this awakening is respect and how we show our respect and money and transactions, how we exchange the energy, as you said, Joel, needs to be honoured and that comes, I don't know what comes first, but perhaps that is by us as individuals saying I'll do this for that, but I won't do it for that. So I've had an experience recently where there was no gigs going on and I met a friend and she had a food truck and I offered to her, I said, hey, look, this is back in the lockdown up here. And I said, look, you know, would you be up for me coming over, singing a few songs, you know, at your food truck? And she goes, yeah, sure. So I didn't ask her for any money because I had a need. I wanted just to get out there and sing for some people. And so I did that for free. And then we went on a bit and then she asked me to come back and do that again for free. And I was like, oh, well, no, that's okay. Thank you. And we're doing these gigs for free on the street because we're not busking. We're just connecting with the musicians and giving us something to go. But we're organising a festival which will be ticketed. And the point is we need to ticket that so we can pay the musicians and we can pay the gear. So it's an easy answer, really. You know, we value it and we allow others to value it. And those that don't value it aren't invited or aren't part of our world. You know, in terms of like making it in the music industry, I think that idea and I see that, you know. [Speaker 2] (1:01:46 - 1:01:48) Yeah, I agree with the sense of it. [Speaker 1] (1:01:48 - 1:02:40) You know what I mean? You can't go in and change the rules of that's how they do business and never before has it been so obvious, right? With Vax The Nation, the thing that came out in Australia with the whole music, what gave birth to Free The Nation music was the music establishments having a campaign using all the musicians to say you've got to be jabbed, you know, to get back. So is that one of the rules of the mainstream? Well, I don't want anything to do with that then. And so that's, you know, I'm a bit older. I've had time to process letting go of childhood dreams. And I feel for the younger people, youngsters, there's a girl, Jessica Lorraine. I'm not sure how old she is. She'd be around her 20s. She might be 19. She might be early 20s, but she has a beautiful song. She sounds, Joel, you'll know, Missy Higgins. She sounds just like, not just like, but in that sort of vein, a great singer-songwriter here, Yerasimos, who's been very successful in Australia. [Speaker 2] (1:02:40 - 1:02:43) Yeah. The special two is the theme song for Yerasimos and I. [Speaker 1] (1:02:44 - 1:03:18) Is it? The special two. I have to listen to it now. But, you know, this Jessica girl, she is so brave. She's on Free The Nation Music. She's got this amazing talent and she's just starting out in her career, but still she's starting out. She hasn't gone, she's at the crossroads, whether she knows it or not, in my view. And she's taken, again, in my view, the right path, the path of the soul and having that. So how will her career progress? Well, it will depend on how the whole world goes, I guess, and what happens. But I think... [Speaker 2] (1:03:18 - 1:03:25) Do you think there is a pathway forward without the major streaming platforms? Do you think? Yes. [Speaker 1] (1:03:26 - 1:05:28) Yeah? There has to be because, for me, there has to be because I got thrown off Bandcamp and it's only a matter of time before probably the others. I know that certain people have been banned from Spotify. So it depends on how powerful your message and how popular it becomes. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the... So what we start... I started a thing called Freedom Music Club, right? And this is a way for people to value what we're doing at Free The Nation Music. It's $20 a month and, at the moment, what they're getting is lots of insights into gigs where they can go that aren't discriminated against, connection to musicians, but also a downloadable album of these artists. So I'm starting off. I'm marketing. I'm promoting the musicians who are on Free The Nation Music. So if they just give me an MP3, I put it together. We do a great... My brother's a graphic designer. We did a great virtual album cover. You know, we really create some value to the offering. And so I'm serving the musicians by promoting them through this platform and attracting music fans who value it enough to pay $20 to get this album. So if we can grow that enough, then I can start to say, well, I'll pay you for that song, you know, and then you can... I can see it growing that way, but we need to attract the people who are going to value it, not the people who are going to say, I want it for free, because you can get it for free. You can probably find all those tracks that we offer as the download somewhere. Most of them, I think a couple were exclusive, but you can search and you can get most of the things you want for free if you don't want to pay. But that's not the reality that's going to... You know, you can go into a market and steal an apple, but just paying no respect to the people who have grown the apple and are presenting it for you. [Speaker 3] (1:05:29 - 1:06:18) Well, I think, you know, you bring up a good point. Even when we think about our podcast here, we started off as a 100% free podcast, and then we kind of experimented with the Patreon model, like the first half of the episode is for the public, the second half would be for our members, and then we decided a couple episodes ago to go back to a 100% free podcast. But the people that are... We still have Patreon for people that want to just be part of the community and to get early access release, but it's still a 100% free podcast. And these people are giving us feedback, like, we're just here to support you because we love the work you're doing. They're not like, now that it's not free, I'm going to leave the platform. And, you know, so it's like you have to find people who just value what you're doing and what you stand for, and that's what they're putting that investment in, as opposed to just like, well, I'm behind a paint wall, I feel special. Like most people, I don't think it's about that. I think it's where their heart goes, what they believe in. [Speaker 2] (1:06:18 - 1:06:23) And we want to know the secret sauce to all of this, is that you have to value yourself first in whatever you do. [Speaker 1] (1:06:25 - 1:07:56) It's absolutely true, Joel, and it's been a big lesson for me in my life, and I think I'm still learning it. I've been working very hard. If I put the work into Free The Nation Music that I'd spent the hours over the last month into crypto, I'd probably have a lot more money than I have now. And so that's the question, you know, I ask myself too, is like, what are you doing? Are you trying to be a saviour or are you just doing, you know, like are you sacrificing part of your life? And I'm not sure is the honest truth, but I'm not worried either because it feels right. And I just get up every day now and I've got that awareness, you know, and I'm learning to say no more. And you get a lot of demands, people, musicians, again, we talked about the nature of the damage, the need for approval and all that. And so that can express itself in neediness as well. I need a different link and that's wrong and you spot my name wrong and it's free service that I'm offering at the moment. So it's just balancing all that up. But, and that's part of the creative process too. And part of the growth, as you said, you know, what should we do with our blog? Should we pay? We need to value ourselves, but we've got to, how do we do that? We're all negotiating a bit, but like I said, that transparency and that I think that's really important because we all know sort of where we're at and what's going on. And, you know, so how do we grow it? We change. [Speaker 2] (1:07:57 - 1:09:39) Yeah, I think it's, we're in such a crucial time because it's all really at play, right? Babylon is falling in real time all around us and the grassroots in all these different arenas are just starting to sprout, but how they actually grow and how they actually form, it's all happening in real time now. And we're all part of this experiment as we speak, you know? So, yeah, I mean, but at the same time, the ground has never been more fertile. It's never been more fertile for truth, for authenticity, for transparency, for real exchange, for real value. As long as you're courageous enough to, I guess, really follow your heart's calling and doing things the right way and willing to take the proper steps, because the entire world around us up until this point has been proliferating, bypassing the necessary steps, getting to the top quicker, skipping the middle, you know? And that's kind of, even as a musician for myself early on, what I experienced was like, oh, I just need someone to discover me, someone big time, someone big needs to see my song. Then all of a sudden I'm going to skip all the middle parts and be uplifted into this status where my career's made it. So as long as I just keep, you know what I mean, doing what I'm doing, eventually someone's going to notice. And I mean, this is a crazy thinking, looking back psychologically. I realize now more than ever how important it is to do the work and to do something properly and to figure it out on your own and to take all the different diversions and go down the dark alleys and make all the mistakes because this is what makes you. And at the end of the day, what anyone is ever going to value is you, it's you, it's your experience, right? So I mean, this is the mindset shift that's radically transforming for those willing to adventure on an authentic path at this time as well. [Speaker 1] (1:09:42 - 1:10:54) 100%, 100%. We really are gifted and it might seem, I don't know, it might seem odd to some people to think that how beautiful the world is right now and how amazing and how in many ways there's never been more truth, there's never been more love expressed. In fact, as I say that, that really resonates with me, the love, the love for you guys, you know, the love that we can express because we've seen what happens when we don't. We've seen what happens when the other is expressed too readily, the frustrations, the anger, the hostility. And we know the difference of the feeling when we are coming from a place of love and for ourself and love for others who aren't yet there. You know, I need to look back and if I met my 20-year-old self, oh, boy, that poor guy, I'd say, mate, don't try so hard. Come on, calm down. Just stop. Just listen for a second. No. Oh, you're not going to listen? Okay, fine. See you later. I don't think he would listen. Or I'd pretend to listen. Yeah, what have you got to say, old man? [Speaker 2] (1:10:55 - 1:10:55) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:10:55 - 1:11:22) Old man with a grey beard who never made it. What are you going to say to me? I'm going to say, mate, you will make it. You won't realise how you've made it and you'll be living in a beautiful house with a pool. You don't even own it but you have five minutes to the beach. It's warm all the time. You can make as much music as you want. You're talking to people across the world who share love and values like you. But it's not going to work out how you think it's going to work out, mate. [Speaker 2] (1:11:22 - 1:11:23) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:11:23 - 1:11:26) Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is. No, it's not. [Speaker 2] (1:11:27 - 1:11:30) Yeah. You're pulling my heart strings here, Ben. Absolutely, man. [Speaker 1] (1:11:30 - 1:11:37) Well, you know, we need to because there's the song. The song is there when we pull those strings. [Speaker 2] (1:11:37 - 1:13:54) It is. It is, man. And, I mean, it's so poignant for me in particular. I mean, I shafted my entire career to the side for a long time there. I gave it up. I burgeoned my passions. I went and worked in the family business. The complete antipathy of creativity in a factory, making concrete, making panels, making bricks, making blocks, you know, I was like, all right, I'll just commit to this. I'll put it all to the side. But, you know, the universe doesn't let you get away with bypassing your dreams that easy, you know. So at the beginning of this year, that was a falling out that occurred with the family business. And literally, I was not allowed to be there, right. It forced me out. So I sat there and I was like, what the hell am I going to do? You know, I've got a family feed, et cetera, et cetera. Then I started learning about tarot. I started learning about astrology. I started learning about divination. I started learning about numerology. I started learning about myself through these arts as well. And through these arts, I realized that I am a born creative. I am born with a deep sense of imagination and poetry and literary gifts. Literally, these are what these divination arts says about me. And I'm like, wow, I just have to own who I am. I just have to be who I am. If I literally incarnated in this form with certain attributes to express, who the hell am I to ignore that or to put that to the side and to say no to, you know what I mean, who I actually am. So man, I just went all in and I embodied these things. And now I offer these services to other people. I help them to know themselves, help them know who they were born to be. I met Eurasimus, right? Complete synchronicity, complete chance. We started a podcast. I got invited to perform my biggest gig ever after I put music to the side. I also performed at Millions March to 5,000, 6,000 people this July. And that was the most energized. And that was my pinnacle moment as a musician. It's like, finally, I'm saying what I want to say as a musician to a crowd that wants to hear what I want to say as a musician, you know? And all these peak experiences are happening all because I decided to just own who I am and be who I am. And this is just the journey for everyone. And what I implore everyone to do is like, just double down on who you really are, you know? And this is the time to do it more than ever. It's never been presented this way before. [Speaker 1] (1:13:56 - 1:15:14) I would say that, too, my experience has been to own myself. I was very fractioned off, if that's the right word. This part of my life can't meet that part. Like, I'm a musician, so that's what I am. People shouldn't know that I'm also an author, that I wrote two books or that I ever acted before or that I do yoga or whatever. And so my website now has my how-to crypto book, Friends of Truth, Free the Nation Music. It's all there. I'm all those things. I'm not going to be one neat little genre-specific folk blues or just squeeze one of those out, just folk, just blues, just country, just whatever. I do a bit of it all. And that's the thing with my music, too, across so many genres. And I fought that. I was trying to push. I was giving in to that pressure to pigeonhole and be one thing and to love all of it. And we need diverse income streams, so I don't know. My how-to crypto book becomes the thing that keeps me going or Free the Nation, if we can get the business model there right, or what it is. But I'm just doing all those things and putting energy into them. And the universe will sort it out for me. I'll just keep doing. [Speaker 3] (1:15:16 - 1:15:47) I don't know if you know anything about human design, which is another system that's based on time of birth, place of birth, et cetera. But you have a type called a manifesting generator. And you're actually meant to have a lot of diverse range of interests and different things that you do. And if you get tired of something, then it's totally okay to be like, oh, what's the next thing? I'm doing the next thing. I'm doing the next thing. It's actually part of your journey. So everything you're saying right now is totally in alignment in relationship to who you are and who you're designed to be, again, based on this one system. So it's pretty cool to see. [Speaker 1] (1:15:47 - 1:15:47) Wow. [Speaker 3] (1:15:48 - 1:15:49) Manifesting generator. [Speaker 2] (1:15:49 - 1:15:50) I like that. Thank you. [Speaker 1] (1:15:50 - 1:15:51) That's beautiful. [Speaker 2] (1:15:51 - 1:16:30) But there's this very specific strategy to living as a manifesting generator, which you're us and us and I also share. We're pure generators, but we follow the same strategy. So the things that are really important for you in life, they're going to be born out of response to life. They're not going to be born out of initiation. So for example, free the nation music, that was born out of response, right? You were given a clue, a cue, a hint from the universe, from your auric field, you're calling something in, then you're responding to it. And that's who we are as generators. We respond to life. So all the things that are really in alignment, really authentic and really meant for you are going to be in response to something. [Speaker 1] (1:16:32 - 1:17:00) That's really helpful to hear, because it makes complete sense to how it feels. I like the word response rather than reaction, because I don't like to think about being reactive at all. I like to come from a center, but that response is a different thing. There's a stimulus and then there's a creative response to that. So that's really cool. Cool. [Speaker 2] (1:17:01 - 1:17:06) Ben, do you reckon you could give us the pleasure of sharing one of your incredible songs with us to close this one out? [Speaker 1] (1:17:07 - 1:17:09) I'm sure I can do that. I'm so excited. [Speaker 2] (1:17:12 - 1:17:16) Ladies and gentlemen, Ben Mitchell, pray the nation for you. [Speaker 1] (1:17:21 - 1:19:28) Where the love and freedom keep us. Our hearts the missing pieces. The future is for our taking together. We have to free the nation. With love and freedom. Free the nation. With love and freedom. We're the ones who won't be silenced. Our souls with perfect timing. Now the world is awake. Together we have come to free the nation. With love and freedom. Free the nation. With love and freedom. From dust to dust. From dust till dawn. We're all getting busy. Getting busy. Born. From me to you. From you to me. We create the world. That's how we choose to see. Where the change that's long been coming. Past no longer running us. History is for our taking together. We have come to free the nation. With love and freedom. Free the nation. With love and freedom. Free the nation. With love and freedom. Free the nation. With love and freedom. [Speaker 3] (1:19:58 - 1:20:06) I know it's just Zoom. And I would rather have it be in person. But, man, that really touched me. So thank you for that gift. [Speaker 1] (1:20:07 - 1:20:30) Thank you very much. Thank you for allowing me to sing it. There's a lyric in that song. I normally don't repeat lyrics. And my wife said, what's that? Free the nation with love and freedom. And it's very deliberate because you can only free with freedom. It's the only way you can do it. And so I felt it was worth repeating, you know. That's why that lyric is there anyway. [Speaker 2] (1:20:30 - 1:21:02) So, Ben, such an incredible talent. Incredible gift and incredible soul. And such an honor to share this dialogue with you, man. And honestly, the work that you're doing and the position you found yourself in in the midst of all this, to me, is probably one of the most important roles that you found yourself embodying at this point in time. So I just want to say I deeply honor the journey and the path that you've walked to be where you are, to culminate into this moment in time as the Ben Mitchell on this Zoom call and to share this with, man. Thank you so, so much. [Speaker 1] (1:21:03 - 1:21:19) Thank you so much. And thank you for being part of Free the Nation Music. Your music is so inspirational. And I am honored to be part of anything that can continue getting that part of your creativity out to the world. And Yerasimos, I look forward to having a treatment with you very soon. [Speaker 3] (1:21:20 - 1:21:28) Yeah, no, definitely. Such a pleasure to meet you and to have this really beautiful conversation. It's one of the gifts of doing this. So thank you, man. [Speaker 2] (1:21:28 - 1:22:08) Absolutely. Guys, this is Ben Mitchell. His website is ben-mitchell.com. What's the Free the Nation website, man? Freethenationmusic.com. Freethenationmusic.com. We're going to put all his details in the show notes here. Stay in touch with him on Facebook and Instagram. Follow him wherever you can. He's doing incredible things. And he's compiling together a group of musicians from around the world that represent and stand for the same morals and values that you do. And there's incredible talent popping up all over the place as a result of this platform. So, again, thanks for listening to our listeners. We really appreciate you guys. And we'll see you next time. Take care.