Ihsan Abbas Ending the War Within

[Speaker 1] (0:00 - 35:03) Hey guys, we just recorded the most amazing intro that you'll never hear. We had such a deep allegory... Allegory? Is that the right word? A deep allegory, relating to plucking the psychological weeds within us. But unfortunately, your asthma was frozen, so it's just gonna be between us, bro. Forever. Yeah, oh well. Well, what are you gonna do? I can't try to do it again, you know, it's just not the same thing. So you just have to keep listening to the rest of our episodes, and maybe it'll pop up at some point in the future. Weeds tend to do that. It's very true. We got another good episode that we recorded? Yeah, we got Eyes on the Bus with us today. Last month, he recorded a pretty profound episode on the way forward with our good friend, Ali Gzek. And we had actually numerous requests to get him on, so we decided to reach out. And the following conversation is what ensued as a result of those actions that we decided to take. A couple things, little pieces of housekeeping I want to address. On the 19th of December, we're hosting a free virtual Zoom call, open to all our HFTT listeners. We want to get you guys together. We want to see you. We want to have some fun, play some games, get you in breakout rooms, get you connecting with each other. We really just want to meet the broader, here for the truth community. So you can register for that call using the link in the brief, in the show notes. And the other thing is, this weekend, so beginning on Friday, Black Friday, Rise Above the Herd is going on an early bird sale. And this is going to be the cheapest that you're ever going to be able to join this program. So between the 24th and the, oh no, between the 27th and... 24th, 24th is Friday. It is the 24th. Between the 24th and the 27th of November, if you're down, and if you want to save a few dollars in doing the course, which is incredibly transformative. In fact, one of our current students just mentioned to us that we could have charged a double for the course and gotten away with it. But we're not interested in doing that. But if you're down for a deep transformative process, we start January 8th, round date of Rise Above the Herd. So 24th to 27th, you can get that on sale. Anything else to say here? That's it. I mean, you'll get the information about the call. I mean, I really look forward to meeting our listeners. You know, it'd be amazing to connect with you. And I think we're doing that at, was it 2pm PST? I think it is. But you'll see it when you click on the link. Yeah, yeah. Just register and you get all the details. And yeah. All right. Enjoy this episode. All right, everyone. Welcome back to the Here for the Truth podcast. We have another amazing guest with us here today. We have Aizen. He's a devoted student and teacher of the great mystery. He guides seekers on the path of self-mastery to return home to themselves. His teachings utilize various modalities and frameworks he's acquired throughout his own journey of expansion. Some of his work includes energy mechanics, belief system reprogramming, relationship dynamics, elemental energetics, masculine-feminine polarity embodiment, integration, and soul retrieval. As his mission on Earth continues to evolve, at his core, he remains a poet, philosopher, mystic, warrior, and messenger of love. Aizen, thanks for being here for the truth, man. Pleasure. My brothers, thank you for having me. Thank you for welcoming me into your space. So excited to dive in with you guys today. Yeah, yeah. Us too, man. One way we always like to kick this one off with first-time guests is we want to really dive into your personal hero's journey a little bit. You know, what are some of the major catalyzing, transformative, pivotal moments in your life that I guess really, you know, alchemized who you are today? Yeah, when people ask me kind of like, where did this all begin? Tongue-in-cheek, but really seriously, I say it was birthed in the pits of hell. And living a life really fueled by addiction, and then anger, and grief, and ancestral trauma, and just really living unconsciously, but feeling as though, you know, almost like trying to strive for the proverbial American dream, let's say. And I've always been spiritually connected. Growing up Palestinian, I was able to kind of see the world in the way it was presenting itself with the way I knew what the truth was. And so there was this like, lack of resonance with what I saw. This added like a layer of knowing that the truth is being hidden from us. And yeah, as I said, a life fueled by addiction, a life fueled by anger, grief, pain, seeking outside of myself for fulfillment. Come crashing down into my own rock bottom several years ago, about four or five years ago. And just having my heart so utterly broken, that reclaiming and reintegrating all those aspects of self that had been shattered and fallen on the ground, that was kind of the path up. And so I started diving into spiritual practices. I was literally doing everything meditation, yoga, going to all the courses, going to a counselor, doing ayahuasca ceremonies, diving into like literally everything I could. And just slowly understanding that I had been a victim to my reality my whole life and really what it meant to reclaim my power back. And it's been a beautiful journey ever since, man. Awesome, man. Can you dive into like and flesh out a little bit more of this concept of like being a victim to one's reality and what that entails experientially for someone? Yeah, at the time, it was like, I couldn't see that everything was for me. Everything was for my expansion. I was still feeling as though things were happening to me. Things were still separate from me. Giving my power away to events that would play out in my life, projecting my anger onto the external world, losing myself in my own emotional turmoil, turning away from my emotions through substances and just really feeling helpless to the external world as opposed to learning how to be a student of my direct experience. And yeah, when I say victim to my reality, it's almost as though there was like a victim consciousness playing out for me that was keeping me from really seeing this life as a house of mirrors, so to speak. And once that kind of clicked, like, hey, everything you see is you. Now I start reality in a much more empowered way, reclaiming those aspects of myself and really taking my power back. Yeah, how have the relationships in your life kind of mirrored back to you, like where you're at and what work still needs to be done? The circles got a lot smaller, that's for sure. Yeah, the relationships have gotten more deeply connected. As I cultivated a depth of connection with my own soul, that started to be mirrored back to me in the external world. And some of these, let's say, surface level relationships started to fall away. Also, as I continue to recode love from a codependent love, intimate relationships started to dissolve as well. And so it really shifted everything. The relationships I had with my parents, right? I started to really see my own programming, my own belief systems and just how everything came to be and take shape in my own life. And I started to recognize the patterns of my parents and really be able to hold them as well in their own experience and to see the purity in their hearts beyond what they've been programmed with. And so the healing journey with myself, it healed the relationship with my parents. It created space for real love to blossom with friends and my wife. It just shifted the very fabric of all these relationships. You're in Canada, right? I lived in Canada my whole life. I'm in Costa Rica right now. But yeah, I lived in Toronto for 30 years, moved to Vancouver, lived there for six years and I'm in Costa Rica now. Awesome. Yeah, cool. And so were you like first generation Canadian? Were your parents originally from Palestine? What's the history in that regard? Yeah, so my dad is Palestinian. My mom is Lebanese. They were living in Saudi Arabia at the time. They moved to Canada just to have me. And yeah, so I'm first generation Canadian. My mom's entire family is in Lebanon. My dad's family was kind of split up in refugee camps in Iraq. And then they kind of migrated to Jordan and Amman. And so growing up, I would spend the summers half in Beirut, half in Amman, Jordan, visiting both sides of the family. But yeah, I lived, born and raised in Canada. Yeah, yeah. My dad's Palestinian and my mom's Lebanese as well. So we have that in common. Yeah. We got the same cocktail going on. That's it, man. There's a very unique and particular, I think, karmic experience growing up Palestinian and with the story and with, I guess, the weights of what that experience has been ancestrally. Can you talk about that from your experience? What that feels like for you and how it is to navigate that? Because it feels like a very specific kind of programming that we have coming in Palestinian, I guess. Yeah. If I'm remembering correctly, I used to say I was Lebanese when people would ask me, where are you from? I'd say, oh, I'm Lebanese. And I really felt alone in life growing up in terms of, didn't feel Canadian, didn't feel like that was home. I felt deeply connected to my Palestinian roots because of what was going on. And so I'd go to Lebanon, I'd feel a disconnect being Lebanese, half Lebanese. And there was this feeling of like, where is home? And yeah, when people would ask me, what are you? I'd say, I'm Lebanese because it was just easier. And it was interesting because nobody growing up in childhood, high school, university, nobody really knew, at least with my friend group and the extended friend group, nobody really knew what was going on in Palestine. So it was hard to share and articulate the depth of what was happening to these people, my people. And it wasn't until really later on in life that I understood, oh, okay, like I chose to come in as Palestinian at this time in order to really anchor in and ground into this work. And it's interesting because my mom, talking to her recently, she said, she made it a point to always tell me I am Palestinian. Even more so than like, you are Lebanese. It was always like, you are Palestinian. She did not want me to lose touch with those roots. And so I thank my mother for all of that because she made it a point to echo this, like you are holding so much as a Palestinian, you have a duty to these people. Just a little technical error. Aizen's back with us. Yeah, bro, you're just discussing growing up Palestinian and the sentiments and your dad's kind of wants for you at that time. Yeah, my dad was like holding this vision for me that at the time he was like wanting me to get into politics or hoping that I would be able to like find my way to a position to be, to be in a space to speak and be a voice for the voiceless. And yeah, what I was just saying is like, it's beautiful now, many years later to be in the space I'm at with you guys, especially here today, like truly speaking on these things in a manner that probably our parents could have never envisioned that we'd be capable of speaking on it and really shining a light on all of this. And so just, you know, a lot of gratitude for my mom and dad for always reminding me of the duty that I came in into this life with as a Palestinian at this time. So, yeah. I'm curious, like, did you have Jewish friends growing up at all? Like, did you get into any, like, debates like in, you know, high school and after? And like, I'm curious what that process was like, because this is obviously an issue and a conflict that's been going on for a long time. And, you know, I remember seeing arguments on Facebook and people back and forth sharing their thoughts 20 years ago or so. And I'm curious what your journey with that has been, if it has been. Yeah, the only real experience in that sense, 17 years old, I think we were in grade 12, maybe 16, 17. And a new student came to our school and he came into the friend group. And my friend group just kind of accepted him and he turned out to be Israeli, having a Cuban Jew, having lived in Israel. And at the time, it was hard for me, man, because everything inside of me wanted to hate this guy. And but all my boys accepted. Yeah, we had some debates. Him and I, we definitely had some challenging debates, kind of speaking at each other, not really being able to listen to each other, but also feeling like so much love for each other, knowing that, like, we're here living in Toronto for a reason or the other. And yeah, there's still a lot of love between us. And I think that was maybe the beginning of healing my own programming and brainwashing and all that stuff. So yeah, that was like an abrasive reflection, like the hatred I had in my own heart at that age, you know? So, yeah. Thanks for sharing. Yeah, it's definitely like an interesting predicament. And it's like a lot to navigate. I remember at times when people would ask, identifying as Lebanese as well. My dad was always very strong in holding onto the Palestinian identity and reaffirming that we're Palestinian. And yeah, back in the day, man, it was taboo. It was taboo to say that you're Palestinian. It felt as though it was very... It still is, obviously. But even particularly growing up through high school, it was a very, very polarizing thing. There's just this ingrained sentiment within the collective mind about being Palestinian back then. And it's weird because now I feel like things have shifted and the way that we view this situation and we view this polarity is shifting. But it's just, I don't know, it's very tricky to navigate, especially because I feel like the Palestinian cause personally now is being weaponized politically as well, you know? Whereas it wasn't that way initially, but I feel like now it is. Is that something that you're noticing as well at all? Yeah, I mean, it started to feel... It's interesting because growing up, it was like nobody was on our side. Yeah. And then all of a sudden you start to see this being used at least in American politics to still divide left and right. And I'm like, oh man, that's the last thing we need now is this to be used as a way to like divide another nation and all of this. And on one hand, it's like, yes, people are seeing, people are fighting for us and people are standing for our liberation. And on another hand, it's like, yo, we're being used as pawns in this whole thing still. And I'm like, yeah, it's interesting. How did you feel, man? I'm curious. How did you feel? Like, did you also just say you were Lebanese? You didn't speak up in terms of like being Palestinian? Like, how was that for you growing up? Yeah, there was definitely a shift growing up where I owned being Palestinian and it actually felt good because for me, I'm very, very Plutonian astrologically. And there was a sense of wanting to be the black sheep, the rebel. And I really revered that identity and being different in that regard as well as a young man. But the moment you say Palestinian, there's only one thing that comes to people's minds, which is like the projection that you hate all Jews. And in fact, through high school, my nickname became Jew. People would just call me Jew just because they thought it would piss me off. Like that was my nickname in high school. It's just, it's interesting. I don't know how to describe it, but the stigma, I guess, that came with that growing up. And I feel like now, obviously, this conflict has been going on for 75 years, but now it feels different. It feels like there's a lot more awareness. There's a lot more interest. There's a lot more research going on around this particular issue based on current events. And I think everyone's confused. Everyone's going through the process of trying to figure out where the moral ground is. What's right? What's wrong? There's a lot of political infusion confusing people. There's so much intentional propaganda on either side of the situation, I feel as well. So, yeah, it's interesting watching everyone navigate this now and even observing myself and questioning myself at times as well in the process. I'm curious, generally speaking, how do you feel and see everything at the moment? I can zoom in and see it from my human perspective and just be utterly heartbroken and just fucking angry. This human in me wants to lose myself in the storyline. And it's very real. To even call it a storyline is almost downplay the reality of what we're seeing. And then I've been receiving so much of what's actually happening on a spiritual level and how absolutely, and it sounds even hard to say this, it's like how absolutely perfect this is in the role it's playing in the awakening of humanity. And also, we need to see this collective shadow. We need to see all that we are being shown, but we need to not turn away from it. We need to not lose ourselves in it. And there's been times where I wake up and I'm just ready to be dragged into the war. And then it's coming back to center, coming back to remaining clear in the vision and being able to speak on that from a place of groundedness. Um, so it's been, it's been, it's been, it's been challenging, man. But it's been a beautiful test to everything that I've been cultivating over the past few years. Um, you know, like how we've been almost training to be able to see God's perfection. Right. When we were, when you started off by saying, what does it mean to not be in that victim consciousness? And so if we're seeing everything is bidding for us for our expansion, if everything is operating in this game through the, through the algorithm of perfection, can, how attuned to this algorithm can we be even in the darkest of times, right? Or is it only perfection when it works out for us and we can see it so clearly. And so as we sit here and we, we like witness all of this death and destruction and deception and propaganda and hatred and deficient and war and all this stuff, that's just like the pits of humanity. Can we come back truly to our, we come back to this knowing that all is perfect and all is working out for us and that this must be revealed in order for us to truly alchemize it, to truly embrace it, to turn this lead into gold. And so, yeah, it's, it's easy. It's been easy to get lost in the storyline. Um, you know, but I think we have a duty if, if, if we've been crafting this ability to see beyond the veil, like we have a duty to, to see beyond the veil and to speak from that space, you know, but to also not lose the humanity of it all because people are being victimized. And so how do you empower, how do you speak empowerment over these people without trapping them in their victimization? And so this becomes really the challenge here is can we honor where, where we find them, what they're going through without taking away their power in the process, right? Because their souls have really signed up for a potent contract to help reveal this and to help reflect to humanity how we've been under this brutal occupation as a collective. And so, oh, like we must, this is our opportunity to truly see ourselves in these people. And because they are reflecting back to us, this press and oppressor dynamic that we have all been under. And so, oh, there's various layers to look at this from, and it's been important for me to, to come back into the seat of observation and allow myself to see the various layers dynamics playing out in order to speak on it. Do you think it's obviously like, you're not there, we're not there, it's easier for us to be able to have a perspective like this and to want something more ideal, but people that are in it, like, are they capable, you know, are they capable of, of, of, of not being feeling victimized or are they capable of stepping outside of it? I mean, many of these people are so traumatized, they're dissociated and they can't even connect to the, to the, what's actually been happening in their bodies because of the level of trauma that has occurred. So, you know, like, is it something that can change? Like we can, we can talk about it, but like, how will it change for the people that are there? I don't know, man, I'm, I'm just doing my best to observe this all. I don't have the answers with this issue. I don't know as much as Joel does. I don't have the history there in terms of being from there. I just see pain and suffering and, and you know, it, it breaks my heart, you know, and I feel like both sides are being used as pawns from some, by something greater, you know? And I think like, if more people understood that, then maybe things can change, but I don't know. I'm just kind of rambling here. So, you know, I'm curious your thoughts. I got you, man. And I often ask myself this too, like, who is my message to? Is my message, does my message resonate with the hearts of those who are there on the ground going through this? And what I come back to is like, they are fulfilling their soul's desired path as brutal as that fucking sounds to even say, it's like they are experiencing what they signed up to experience. And what I've connected into is that Gaza specifically is playing out the role of the heart of alchemy on this planet. And so what we're seeing is this collective shadow, which is taking the form of the Zionist regime and literally Gaza strip has been blocked off, stripped of everything. And all that's left is their will to live this, this will to perpetuate light, their faith, their strength, their courage, the resilience, and the shadow gets put on them and they are transmuting this shadow. And so what I've connected into is that this, that Gaza specifically is the heart place of alchemy for the world. And the Zionist regime is representing this collective shadow. And it's like this big transmutation process. And literally they've built a wall around them. Like this is one big alchemy lab. On a spiritual level. And so you have the collective shadow, which is representing the fear of death. And we hear this often with like Israel has the right to defend itself. And this almost speaks to the collective fear of death that is governing this operation and where the other side of the coin is the will to live. And so we're witnessing almost the bridge between heaven and earth, the eternal self and the finite self interacting with each other in this way. And, you know, I like to think on a spiritual level, like the people in Gaza are, are okay. As, as, as, as bad as it looks to the, to the observer. I truly feel that they're fulfilling a very sacred agreement. And we, in order to honor them, we must see ourselves in them. You know, and they're really showing us both sides, right? There is no, there is no two sides in the sense that we're learning from both the oppressed and the oppressor to ultimately find our own liberation on this hero's journey. So I mean, to answer your question, man, I think when you're in survival mode. Um, you're ultimately being governed by your need to survive. And so their next steps are almost like laid out in front of them. Get water, get food, get shelter, get protection. It's almost obvious to them at that point. But as the world watches rather helplessly, like, you know, what's what like, I'm curious because you are in a sense, like you said, not from those lands, not of those people, like what's been revealed to you, man, in terms of what's come up for you through it all. I mean, I think for me, just the little that I've commented on it, just observing as best I can is just seeing how people are so emotionally dysregulated and can't take the time and the space to get clarity before fucking, you know, reacting to other people on their lives. This has nothing to do with what's going on there. Like, I understand if you're in some kind of war zone or you're fighting for life, I mean, you're not going to be able to maybe take some space to think rationally or to like gain some objectivity. But for people that aren't there, you know, who are just getting sucked into the emotional drama or tribalism or picking a certain side, I'm just witnessing how much work that needs to be done within individuals that aren't even in that space to be able to look in the mirror and be like, hey, why am I so triggered? Why can't I even hold discomfort and pain and suffering within my own system without fucking lashing out and going off on someone? So that's like my observation that I'm seeing from there and seeing how people are communicating to one another. You know, I've had people reach out to me like going off on me because we had an episode and I posted it to my stories about, you know, certain historical elements regarding the creation of Israel, you know? And so it's like, I don't know, man, it's a confusing time, to be honest. I don't know what the solution is. Sometimes I go, is there a collective solution or is it an individual solution? At the end of the day, that changes the world. You know, everyone doing their own inner work. Um, I don't know, man, I'm still in the process of it all, to be honest. Yeah, yeah, I hear you. I think the individual solution and the collective solution must come together at the same time because they're not separate from each other. And what I see is like exactly what you're saying. Like this, this war in the Holy Land has evoked a holy war within the self for so many people. And this has brought up a lot for so many people like, you know, we're all connected to this war energy in a sense. And I think when we come in and we incarnate into this life, part of what we use to learn about energy and about this experience is through the illusion of separation, is through the identity. And so I think like this, these forces at play behind the scenes, they understand this and so they use the identity, they use the separation, the illusion of separation to pull us deeper into these throes of war. And so all I say is to, to what you said is like, perfect. If this evoked a, in Islam, like jihad, right? We get this term confused, jihad means holy war, but the true meaning of jihad is on a spiritual development side. Jihad and nafs, the holy war of the self. And oftentimes people and what you're witnessing in comments sections is people are not ready to face that holy war within the self. And so they take out the sword and go outside to perpetuate this war, to fight this war. And so if we, we must face the war within ourselves, we must find that peace within ourselves in order to offer it to the world. And this is really our opportunity, you know, like the return to the holy land within the heart. And this is what I keep saying, like, this is our chance, man. We're seeing a fucking abrasive reflection of what is occurring within us. Yeah. You hit the nail on the head there. I said that the other day, I was like, people want peace in the world, but they don't even have peace in themselves. So, but how does, how does, how does someone who's, who's gotten there then responds to that situation? How does someone who's garnered peace within themselves, how do they, how would that individual see what's going on and respond to the situation? You know? I think when we start to understand that somebody's opposing perception is not necessarily a threat to my survival directly. Again, we are not on the ground there, right? We're talking about discourse with people we're talking about on social media. We're talking about three brothers speaking here. Like you're, can I hold my own beliefs in one hand and opposing beliefs in the other hand, without feeling threatened, my survival being threatened and find way to truth. Can I take responsibility for my own feelings, my own emotions, my own thoughts, my own beliefs? Can I take responsibility for my entire experience of reality? If I'm losing my shit to something Joel says to me, like that's a reflection of what's going on within me. It's less about what he said. It's less about how he's showing up. It has nothing to do with that. You know, and I joked the other day, I said, my comment section on Instagram has been like an ayahuasca purge bucket for something. Like literally an opportunity for people to purge and project their demons out into this world. And until we take that high level of responsibility to cultivate the peace within ourselves, to face the war within ourselves, like you said, how can we offer that to the world? And truly inner peace is an inside job. And the greatest remedy to what we see, if what we see is division, if what we see is hatred, if what we see is war, then the inverse would be the antidote, the medicine. And so, yeah, as long as we remain at war with ourselves, we will continue to perpetuate the war with each other. And I think it's not a coincidence that this is, we're seeing this so strongly during this awakening happening in the quote-unquote holy land where all these religions were birthed, where there's such a divide, where the identity of my land, your land, we're like lost in the, yeah, we're lost in the identity, we're lost in the shadow of our pain and our trauma. It's the same. And this is such a, on a spiritual level, it's such a, it's our guru right now. This is our guru, quite literally. [Speaker 2] (35:04 - 35:04) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (35:05 - 35:25) Yeah. I think that's why earlier when I said there's an individual solution, is that like a collective is made up of individuals. And so, you know, individuals doing that work and finding the inner peace is what impacts the collective, you know, in that regards. But yeah, man, I feel what you're saying. And yeah, it hits deep. [Speaker 2] (35:26 - 35:28) Now a short break from the episode. [Speaker 1] (35:29 - 36:01) Hey, everyone. So starting Friday, November 24th, we are doing a Black Friday sale through the weekend, through Cyber Monday for Rise Up of the Herd. You've heard us say it before, it's our eight-week group coaching program. Our next round, round eight launches on January 8th. So if you're ready to start the year off properly, if you want to take the next steps to really step into your power more and walk that authentic path unapologetically, then go to riseabovetheherd.co and you can learn all the details. We'd love to have you come on board. [Speaker 2] (36:03 - 36:04) Back to the episode. [Speaker 1] (36:05 - 40:37) Let me throw this to this too. Where does, and this maybe we can toss this around, where does the need to fight for liberty reside here? Because as we come into the spiritual space, we hear a lot of light and love and protect your energy and remain in your peace. But then our own direct experience is like, hey, this isn't right. Something needs to change here. And so where is the need to fight for liberty, to stand for justice? How can that coexist with the inner work as well? I think it can coexist, but it depends on the person and how they fight for liberty and inner peace and freedom. Are they on two feet or one foot? Are they integrated and balanced and living heroically and speaking truth to power in a way without being extremely self-righteous and talking at other people, just like you said earlier? And again, that depends on the individual. And also everyone is on their own individual path. So the problem I also see is when you have people on social media or in the world thinking they know how everyone else should act and how they should be and how they should behave. Someone might be at a place of more inner peace and being able to communicate to others on what's going on in the world. And another person might not even be there that yet. They might be like, shit, I'm just trying to figure shit out. I'm trying to pay my bills. I'm trying to take care of my family and figure things out. And then they're getting hated on because they're remaining silent and they're complicit. Like, I just feel like a part of me is like, well, fuck you. Like, you know what I'm saying? And I'm not saying that because I'm being silent. Obviously, we have a podcast. We do the things that we do. I do things in my life, but I'm observing what I witness on social media because I'm the work that I love. I'm fascinated by human behavior. I'm fascinated why people are the way they are, why they do what they do. You know, so that's another thing I'm seeing, you know, is that like, you just have people who think they know better talking at other people or think are more evolved talking at other people. And so at the end of the day, it comes down to how you communicate, not what you communicate. So you can speak for liberty, truth and freedom in a certain way that inspires, you know, and then you can also do it in a way where you're like, all right, chill, bro. So I don't know if that answered your question, but I definitely am. Anyone that knows me knows I'm not a love and lighter in that sense. I believe in it. You know, I think you have to be in touch with the parts of you that can pull out the fucking sword if necessary. Now, my life right now isn't being threatened, but if the three of us were in a room together and some motherfucker came in to try to kill the two of you, I'd take that motherfucker out and I wouldn't think twice, you know what I mean? So like, but I'm not, I'm not in that position right now, you know, personally now things are happening in the world. And I'm still like confused how to, how to navigate that, you know? Anyways, man, please feel free to comment. Yeah, yeah. And I appreciate that, you know? And so the question comes back to like, what we're witnessing is not separate from us. And we are seeing this like mirrored reflection of ultimately the control and occupation and the, just, you know, no matter what you're looking at, no matter, you know, people will say, don't choose a side, but no matter where you're standing, what you're looking at is dark. It doesn't matter what you're looking at in this moment, whether you're yelling out, free the hostages from terrorism, or you're yelling out, stop chilling these children, like whatever you're looking at, there's a darkness behind it. And so understanding that we are not separate from what we see. And yeah, you know, I've, I've, I've also had these moments again, like full transparency. I've also had these moments of, why don't you fucking say something? People are being too silent, like speak up. And then I come back to the feeling of like, okay, if I didn't feel helpless right now, would I be directing my attention towards the people speaking? Because if I had actual action, if I didn't feel the helplessness, I probably wouldn't tell you to speak up because it would be getting taken care of. [Speaker 2] (40:37 - 40:37) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (40:38 - 45:16) So I think a lot, I think it's like most things can be true. People are remaining silent because they're kind of like frozen with like, holy shit. I make, I accept what I'm looking at right now. My entire sense of reality is going to have to come crashing down upon my head because this darkness that I see that is orchestrating the world for me to accept that this exists, now what? And so you're having a lot of people in like this freeze response, or let me just turn away. And like hope manages itself because truthfully for us to sit here and be like, there's some demonic shit that's sacrificing these children right before our very eyes. That isn't even the agenda. That's just like a side quest for these motherfuckers. For us to truly accept that and understand that that is woven throughout all politics, media, banking, pharma, medicine, schooling, music, everything. It's interwoven through everything. What now? So on one hand, I see the reason why so many people are like, oh my God, what am I supposed to even do with this? What I'm seeing? And so it might be, we have these internal mechanisms that want us to turn away, that want us to like, yeah, fight, flight, freeze, or fawn kind of thing. So you'll have people that are ready to fight. You'll have people that are frozen. You'll have people that are like turning a blind eye, ready to dip out the back door. But yeah, we also... Do you think in the whole, nothing that I'm seeing is separate from me paradigm, there's also a bit of a spiritual trap there as well that just keeps us in like, oh, I'm responsible for everything. I should be doing more about everything. It keeps people dysregulated as well. Everything's my responsibility. What else can I do? What more can I do? Whereas on some level, we live in this reality where horrific shit is taking place all the time, where there's this deep-seated corruption proliferating and manifesting itself in so many different arenas 24 seven. If someone was just living in a state of I'm not separate from anything happening, then they would live in a very contradictory state within themselves pretty much perpetually. Well, that's where now we start to understand there's levels to this game. And so there's also traps for your consciousness where it's an energy capture. And so it's like one thing to see the images that are coming out, and it's another thing to like lose yourself in that and just now like not be able to fucking look away, right? And so, yeah, it's very much being used like these events that are orchestrated, that play out on the world stage with all these politicians being actors, it's being used to like direct our attention in a certain way and siphon our energy, implanting beliefs in order to like collectively project this reality and create a reality that is wanting to be created by those who benefit off of the collective disempowerment. And so there is an element to that, which is we are not separate from what we see. And how do we dance and navigate this without like losing ourselves in the storyline, while also retrieving what we need from what we see? Because if we weren't meant to see ourselves in it, right, then it wouldn't be so strongly in our field, I believe. But also, it can really serve as a massive distraction for us to not look at ourselves, to not look at like what's fucking dysfunctional in my own role, right? And so I end up like projecting all of this credith and this anger that has been unprocessed onto the world around me, like, hey, man, why are you fucking speaking? And all of a sudden, my anger is projected onto him when it's just distracting away from the fact that like I'm miserable at my job, I haven't fucked my wife in a year, and like all of this stuff, it's like this massive distraction. So there's so many, it's really nuanced. [Speaker 3] (45:16 - 45:16) It is. [Speaker 1] (45:16 - 59:33) Yeah, I agree with you, it can be. Yeah, man, it is. And that's the shadow element of the activist archetype, you know, is the person that wants to go change the world, but then their life is in shambles, their relationships in shambles. And it's just, but it makes sense that like a person who doesn't have control or so much uncertainty in their internal life and in their world wants to go out and try to find some certainty and create control and control others. So it makes complete sense, you know, and again, this is why like the work is so internal, you know, for each individual to take what they're seeing in the world and have it reflect back and go, well, what is this saying about me? Like, why am I reacting this way? There has to be a curiosity on an individual level for a person to even want to do this kind of growth. Most people are zombies, man. I mean, the reality is they're not doing this level of introspection. And so we see the world that we see, you know, and I'm not saying that I'm saying that because I'm just speaking like it's a fact, like I use the word zombie, but like in a lot of ways, people are just like going along to get along. They just are who they are. They don't really do the deeper levels of, you know, introspection and like about like why they are who they are, you know, and yeah, man, the, the activist is a very interesting, interesting archetype. I love, I like, I like how you, how you referenced it as being an archetype and it's almost as though virtue signaling has taken the place of being virtuous. 100%. So now I need to be almost like fighting for what's trendy in order to be seen as worthy of love. In order to be deemed worthy from society, I need to be carrying the flag that they give me. I need to be chanting the chants that they tell me I need to be fighting for what, what is been kind of like shoved down my throat as the right thing to fight. And so it's, again, like the activist, it's an important one, but unless you're coming from a sovereign clear place where you've taken in all this data, like you're just doing the bidding for essentially the same force that has created these two teams or three teams or four teams or whatever it is. You're still, you're just like regurgitating what they want you to regurgitate. And we saw that with Black Lives Matter being funded by Soros and different elements that have infiltrated these activist movements, up the tier of them and it's like, yeah. And that's exactly the way in which now the free Palestine movement has been weaponized, particularly for the left leaning people. And it's actually an antithetical to what, you know, what it actually genuinely means to have Palestinian liberation. Like I think anyone who's genuinely inclined and supports Palestinian liberation would be for the most part, like completely turned off by what they're seeing in terms of the representation that's going on in the masses. Bro, I went to a protest in Vancouver four years ago, within 20 minutes standing at the protest and some guy speaking on the mic, I was like, no, man, no, like you don't speak for me, bro. Like either give me the mic or I'm out of here. Because like, I understand why we're here, but who put this guy up here? Whenever crowds get together to that degree, it just seems like they all sink to the lowest common denominator amongst themselves. You know, it's almost like the entity of a crowd when it comes together with such vitriol and such emotion, like it just can't help but to, you know, to lose rationality. And so, you know, I don't know, that's just my observation anyway. Well, when it's anchored, I think what's coming to me now is like when it's anchored into the identity, it's almost opening itself up for takeovers. And it's really challenging because why people are protesting or marching is because they are in pain from a feeling of injustice. They are enraged. They are experiencing anger because of a perceived imbalance in their reality. And so as long as they remain in the anger and in the grief, and they're not actually like transmuting this into clear vision forward, it's going to remain there. And that's just going to pulse and vibrate at that frequency of like, fuck the system, fuck the system. It's like, hey, we get it. Fuck the system. But now like who's speaking a clear vision forward? Because I hear a lot of people chanting and yelling and protesting, but and it's needed. Don't get me wrong. We're going to need to take to the streets and like not participate in the system. But we do. Instead of a million people marching to the streets, what if a million people stopped paying taxes? What if a million people stopped engaging in these systems that like, well, what happens if we just pulled our participation away and took our attention away from this system that we're saying, fuck the system to and started to turn away and create this new system that we feel more in resonance with? Yeah, it's an opportunity for people to like vicariously play out on being rebellious, but without actually doing anything that's really rebellious or really going to impact, you know, the corrupt system that we see. What if a million people did the work necessary to bring more regulation into their nervous system? You know what I mean? Yeah, well, what I was going to say is, is like, again, everything is perfect. And I'm going to keep coming back to that. I almost, I feel as though in the same way COVID woke up a lot of people. The activism can be this like pathway to awakening if led and guided there properly. Because yeah, once we start asking questions, you know, the questions don't stop. So we need, yeah. Sorry, I was going to say, let me, I want to ask you this, like, because that phrase, everything's perfect. I get it on one side, but like, what if you rolled up to Gaza, you rolled up to like, you know, the festival and in Israel and was like, Hey, everyone, just so you know, everything's perfect. You know what I mean? They'd be like, go fuck yourself, bro. You know what I mean? So like, like it, like I get it on one level and it seems a little spiritually bypassing on another level. Yeah, well, I mean, depends on what you're connected to and is anything outside of the umbrella of God's creation. And so does God make mistakes? And now you got to start asking yourself at a high level, like, is there anything that's a mistake in creation? And, and yeah, I mean, like you said, if somebody walked into my house, what it's, it's, it's going to have to be acted upon. Right. And I think, yeah, like there are people who are using everything is perfect to bypass. And there are people who are using everything is perfect to see what they need to see and what's in front of them and to learn from that. Because if you're saying everything is perfect and just like lying away, then you're turning away from humanity in that sense. But if you're seeing everything is perfect as like, all right, what is this here to teach me? Now it becomes an opportunity to learn from it. So yeah, I get what you're saying there, man. Yeah. And I mean, just like we can say from like the events of 2020, how like, you know, despite on the surface that like, obviously being incredibly oppressive, you know, incredibly intent on breaching human and bodily autonomy and rights on some level, it also resulted in like millions of people awakening to, you know, the deeper agendas behind big pharma and, you know, vaccines in general and vaccines in general. And so I guess, you know, on, it's like on, on, on a macro level, do I believe that everything is playing out as it needs to? I mean, yes, yes, I do. You know, at the same time, it's hard to label that as perfect experientially. But at the same time, it's like, you know, it's just like we've been discussing, it's just a macro manifestation of shadow work. You know, like as an individual, everything that I experience externally ultimately is teaching me something deeper about my own unconscious. And that's what's happening on a larger scale as well. So, you know, on a macro psychological level, sure, the experiences that we're having are the necessary experiences. Yeah. And I think there's a journey too, because I get what you're saying. It's like, like, if my spiritual practice, my belief is everything is perfect and things are working for me, like great. But there's a journey to get there. Yeah. You know, like, let's say something really horrible happened to me. Like if I the next day was like, well, it happened for a reason. You know, everything happens for a reason. Like I might need to go through the pain, the stuff, the confusion and feel into it and all that. And then I have that part of me that's overlooking. It's like, listen, this is this is happening for you. This is, you know, this is what your soul needed. This is what your heart needed. Like, for instance, I went through, you know, nine years ago, 10 years ago, I went through a breakup. OK, it was the first breakup I ever was not responsible for, meaning I was broken up with. OK, and that was a rite of passage for me. A lot of different shit came up and I had enough of an awareness to be like, this is a mate. This is what you need. This is what's good for you. Yes, I felt all the feelings, the like the contraction, the hurt, the pain, the abandonment, whatever. But enough to be like, this is your medicine, you know, and I think but I didn't then not allow myself to feel the feelings and just completely cut off and dissociate, you know. So I think we need to differentiate that whole process. Yeah, it resonates strongly with that, you know, to let you guys in. Like my wife and I, we had a miscarriage in February and it was a very intense ceremony for us, you know, and even though we had the awareness that this was a path of fulfillment, our souls are desiring to travel and in a sense, everything is perfect. It was fucking crushing at the same time and yeah, it's like you said, like you've got to really be present with your human experience and to ultimately like allow space for your human to process what you're going through. And let's find a way to have these tools and these layers of awareness to help us be more empowered as we walk through these events in our lives, the breakups, the deaths, the heartbreaks, whatever it is, to help us like walk through them more empowered as opposed to like just ditch and run because we're going to use these defense mechanisms. But now they're like spiritual defense. They're spiritual mechanisms of protection now to not face the discomfort. Whereas like once upon a time, the mechanisms of protection were to go drink and to smoke and to just avoid and to numb. And now it's like to just say it's all love and light and it's all perfect and get over it. Yeah, I feel you, man. I totally feel you. And I think it's a responsibility of the individual that's interacting with someone that has gone through something to hold space for where they are in the journey and not project a spiritual belief onto them. You know, like let's say something just happened to someone and then like I roll up and just go like, oh yeah, it's totally cool. You know, it's perfect. You know, like I think there needs to be a responsibility on the individual that is spending time with this other person has a life that has had maybe something tragic happen to just be with them wherever they are on that process. And if they're asked for their thoughts and things that maybe they can, they can, they can navigate that with some nuance and some grace, you know? So and I say, I bring this up because I see it often, man. I see it. I live in Los Angeles, outside of Los Angeles. So like I see this type of behavior in a lot of different places and I witnessed it online and yeah, it just doesn't feel very connected. And I think that's the importance of, of our emotions and our abilities are our ability to feel with one another and to really like revere you and your ceremony going through that breakup or somebody in their ceremony. What we're watching right now is people in their own unique ceremonies and like allowing our ability to feel with them to, to connect us together and to not just like, you know, empathy turns to apathy and we're just super disconnected and closed off from each other. And like, you're going through your own shit and it's all perfect, bro. You can't see it. And it's like, it's like, yeah, I can, I can revere it all for the ceremony you're in. And, um, and just trust that that's, that that's what you need, the medicine that you need. Just like you said, like having that awareness that that's what you needed. [Speaker 2] (59:39 - 59:40) Yeah, man. [Speaker 1] (59:41 - 1:13:52) Yeah. I mean, I think like, like our nervous systems just aren't meant or are capable of really processing the magnitude of, of what's actually taking place, you know? So when people like read a headline, like, you know, six or 7,000 children have died so far, it's like, there's just an, there's an automatic disassociation that takes place in receiving and in information of, of the, of that quality, you know, and something like that, like, how do you even begin to feel into that? How do you even begin to process that? How do you even begin to imagine if that was, if that was my kid, if that was my niece, if that was my nephew, if that was their limbs, if that was their, their, their burned body, like that's, it's difficult to relate to, you know? Yeah. And, and, and I think, oh, sorry. Well, no, I was just going to say that. Yeah, man, it's, it's, it's intense. And, and also being exposed to this much information that's happening around the world 24, 7, like it's very new in our experience as a human being, you know, for most of our history as humans, we didn't really know what was happening outside of our like local communities, or maybe we heard some things. So I think that's, there's a whole nother element that's impacting us. Um, and, and, and then like the overarching, you know, question is, like, in what way is this destruction now being weaponized to serve a greater agenda beyond just the Palestine-Israel dichotomy? That's the thing too, man, like, it's, it's so interesting, like a lot of people are getting swallowed up in this. And, um, there's clearly agendas behind agendas behind the agendas. And it's so layered. And once you think, but people think they know what's actually going on and, oh, the, the Ben-Gurion canal and, oh, this is happening and that's happening. And it's like, I think, like you said, man, we're on one hand, we're taking in a lot of information right now, but also how can we disseminate the information that's coming through? How can we filter this out in terms of what I need to know and not what is trying to capture my energy and slow it and like siphon and just like drain me and deplete me. Um, what's actually aiding me into what I can do actionable tension, intentional actions moving forward. Um, it's just, it's, it's been a lot, man, I think like, especially with, with social media, like you said, how do you even begin to put yourself in the shoes of, of somebody who's lost their entire family? Um, are you even supposed to, are you even supposed to, you know? Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Like, like we're, we're, we're all, we all contain multitudes. Like we're all like a constellation of different parts. And like, there's parts of me that, that care, obviously very fucking deeply. And there's parts of me that see how horrendous this is. But then there's a part of me that's like, the fuck, like what, what the, what the, what the fuck can I do about this anyway? You know, am I just going to, you know, stop progressing? Am I just going to, you know, put a halt on everything else and just like 24 seven fill into this, this misery, you know? And it's like, I think that's, what's also being weaponized against us is like, you know, people being able to tap into that part. They can just fucking shoot out. They can just turn it off. That can just, you know, recognize on a deep level that this, this reality is not all love and light. It's not paradise. It's not all heaven. It's not, you know, I think on some level people need to be able to do that. They need to be like, all right, I've seen enough. I get it. I understand there's horrific shit going on right now. I understand there's nothing I as an individual can actually do, um, you know, to really, you know, may make a shift through a post or through commentary or through whatever. And maybe the highest thing I can do is actually just get on with, you know, my purpose. Yeah. Yeah. I feel you. And everyone's going to have a different idea, like, uh, idea of what their purpose is, you know, and the other thing I, to go back to what I said, there's so much, there's so much guilt. There's so much guilt that arises in someone saying there's a part of me that doesn't give a fuck, but it's the truth. Everyone has that part. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there was a point a few years ago where I had to unfollow all these Palestinian accounts in Palestine. I don't Palestine, like I had to unfollow them because I'm like, bro, I can't look at this anymore. Like it's, it's keeping me, it's keeping me tethered to. Here's the thing is keeping me tethered to a lot of paint and it's almost like, and I'm curious Joel to hear, to hear what you have to say, like, as a, as a Palestinian, I think I will always be connected to this cause or I think I will always be connected to my grandfather's village being decimated. And like, you know, and I understand that it's all ingredients for alchemy and it's all for me and stuff, but no. No. Well, we, even if we say bucket and turn away, do we remain tethered to it energetically? And it's that, is that going to get our attention one way or another? Yeah, man. Like for me, for me, it's like most powerful, most powerful thing that I feel like I can do to help Palestinian people is to sit here and say, I'm Palestinian and continue my life as an exemplary human, achieving great things, living out my purpose, building amazing connections, you know, showing people that, you know, Palestinian people aren't just a rabble or they aren't just nobodies or they aren't unintellectual or they aren't capable. You know, it's like, no, there's Palestinians in existence doing fucking amazing things. And I think for, for, for, for me, that's what it is. That's how I, that's, that's, that's how you can change the perception of what someone thinks when they hear the word, you know, Palestinian. And also like on some level, like I don't want the victimization projection either. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I like, I was, I was having these conversations with my pops years ago, like the greatest thing we can do to honor these people is to, to live a full enriched life. You know, like if a man doesn't have clean drinking water and you're connected to him, you have full appreciation for that glass of water that you have, right? Like if somebody's living in this war under oppression, under occupation, like you owe, you almost like, like you use that to fully live an enriched, appreciative, fulfilled life with joy and passion and purpose and love and, and, and may that be part of what they offer you as well, right? I, I feel like we can draw so much from these people. We can draw courage and strength, faith and resilience from, from their plight, but we can also like truly step further into our own passions, our own purpose, our own, our own joy in this life by, yeah, by being connected to, by, by being connected to them. But even that is in a stance to play into their victimization. I mean, it's, it's, it's all, it's also layered. And then it is really like, it's so layered and this is the other thing why some people don't engage. Like some people don't even have a fucking clue of what is going on, even on the most basic level. And yet they're getting like skewered for not taking a stand, like October 8th, you know what I mean? Or October 9th, like, like what the fuck dude? Like people don't even know what's going on, let alone all the layers and layers and layers and layers of history of this and that, like thousands of years that like, how can you know everything? And that goes with the historic elements that goes with the personal lived experiences of different people on both sides. Like, yeah. And the thing is like sitting here, like I'm not, I'm, I'm not that naive where I think like, you know, all Palestinians are completely innocent or Palestinian leadership throughout the years actually hasn't had opportunities to do something different or to make different choices. You know, like, yes, there's definitely oppression going on, but it's like, I'm not naive to think that they've been perfect or not to collectivize, but like the leadership that's been placed there has been perfect in moving towards something better for themselves. Yeah, absolutely. Like, people are just being puppeted. Like if you can see that politicians across the world are puppets, like who's to say that these guys haven't been implanted and puppeteered, whether they're conscious of it or unconscious of it and just being heard in certain directions and played against each other. Like, yeah. Yeah. But what's, what's, what's, what's, what's the saddest part is that no innocent civilian is responsible for, for the decisions of what these, of what these puppeteers, you know, arranging amongst themselves and seeing people like, who just want to live their lives with a semblance, with a semblance of peace. You know what I mean? Like getting caught in the middle of this crossfire of just this, you know, horrendous antagonism that continues to take place. And I hate it when people conflate like a general populace or a culture or masses of people with like the leadership that purports to represent them. I hate it when I see it for Israelis. I hate it when I see it for Palestinians. And people are so quick just to do that and, and use the decisions of a few psychopaths to then paint a collective with the, with the same brush. Yeah. I mean, it's part of, I guess, one of the downfalls of the, the false sense of democracy, right? Where it's like, well, these people have been chosen and placed into quote unquote power. And yet we have this illusion that the democratic system is real. So that must mean half of these people at least are, are of this stream of consciousness. And it's just, man, the, the agendas to keep us divided and lost in these, in the illusions of this world, it's the distortions are fucking sick, man. Yeah. The cognitive dissonance, the, the dissociation, like, like, it's just absolutely brutal. Yeah, bro. And like, we, we, we, we, we can speak it to death, you know, like, it's happening. It's happening. We, we live, you know, side by side with this force that is completely corrupt and demonic and inverted. And it's taking place 24 seven. And I've spoken about it ad nauseum and I fucking get it. You know, it's like, that's where I'm at. That's, that's where I feel like I'm at. Like I, it is, it is what it is. Like, I get it. This is, this is reality. You know, A equals A. I accept, I accept this reality. All right. What else, where do we go? What else do I do with that now? I saw what you posted today. You were like, I haven't said much because I feel like I've said all I can say or all I need to say about this. Like, yeah, what's in a way, what's there left to say? What is there? What is, what is there left to say? That's right. You know, and it's like, like, I'm not also that naive to think that, you know, there's millions or thousands of Jews who don't believe that they, you know, actually have some kind of moral footprint, you know, in terms of what's taking place as well, not to conflate Jews with the state of Israel or with Zionism or whatnot, you know, but it's like, there's so many different perspectives. There's so many different ways of looking at it. There's so many different ways of dissecting it. And none of that justifies the death of innocent kids, women, men, children whatsoever. But it's like, there's so many perspectives that claim to, you know, be connected to truth. And it's like, shit just needs to play out at this point, you know? Yeah. Like, even now, just the example of the two of us, two Palestinians, both experiencing this through our own individually unique lenses of like, how we are like, speaking on it, wanting to like, focus on our own lives, but being pulled back in, wanting to say things, not having anything left to say, and all of this, like, we're both, and we're supposed to be on the same side. And yet, we're having two completely unique experiences through this thing. Yeah. And now... Not wanting to come across as like, betraying someone or being in a different camp or like, you know, because there's so much projection that comes with it as well, you know, when you speak on this topic. [Speaker 2] (1:13:55 - 1:13:55) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:13:58 - 1:28:25) You know, like, because you're not going to be able to please everybody. And I think as long as we live in the highest streets of our hearts and speak from center and yeah, I think the greatest thing we can do in this time is offer the world the peace we've cultivated within ourselves to live our dharma, to live in our purpose, to heal our trauma so that we are not corrupted by our shadows. And to be able to see beyond the separation of these illusory identities that we've chosen to come in and play with, play as, right? And build these bridges. Like, ultimately, you are a bridge. I'm a bridge. He's a bridge. We are here building bridges from us to the aspects of selves, to each other. And like you said, maybe like, we just also have to fucking let things play out and deal with our own heaviness and grief and rage as it plays out. And maybe part of this experience is to feel helpless through it all. Yep. Yeah. Like, how would I be responding if this situation was like happening in like Samoa or like Greece or like wherever, you know? Like, what would my response be? And like, is it even, you know, is it right or is it correct for my response to be different simply because I'm culturally now connected to Palestine or to Gaza? Like, if I'm really real with myself, what would my motivations be if the exact same situation was simply happening somewhere else? I'm not going to ask that question to you. Yeah, I mean, what comes to me first is like the name of your podcast. Yes. And I think if we have an understanding that we are in somewhat of a spiritual war here, a war on consciousness, then everybody's playing a different role on this battleground in a sense. And so you just find yourself in a specific position to speak on the truth as you see it from where you stand. Whereas like when, you know, like you said, if something happened in Samoa or something's happening in Uganda or something's happening in some other country, like, yeah, you may be called forward to speak on the truth, but not from necessarily the ground or the trenches or, yeah. There's different layers of skin in the game. Yeah. Also, you know, like it's just part of reality. Yeah. Yeah. Like there's enough information out there at this point. There's enough awareness out there at this point for people to be able to like, you know, make a decision or like choose moral ground. And the reality is, is that like I mentioned throughout, like death, destruction, devastation, evil, Satanism, it's happening perpetually no matter where it is. And regardless, you know. Yeah. It's interesting with all the technology, all the advances, everything that's occurred over the last however many years, like human nature has not changed and that's used against us, you know, by the architects of control to continue to pin us against each other. But like people are still doing these things to each other that they did thousands and thousands of years ago. And it's not just because of the architects of control, you know, it's because of the immaturity of our own psychology, you know. Yeah, yeah, that too. But there's something at the base that gets hijacked, that's allowed to get hijacked, you know. Yeah. Like even if there weren't puppeteers, even if there weren't like malicious inputs and systemized, you know, divide and rule, conquer stuff going on, like do you believe there wouldn't be any wars? Do you believe there wouldn't be any death? Do you believe there wouldn't be any infighting? Do you believe there wouldn't be any corruption, any propaganda? Just like would humans just simply of, you know, their own nature and, you know, the psychological work that's undone still perpetuate on some level evil? Yeah, I don't think everyone would be holding hands in a large circle singing Kumbaya. And I think maybe that part of the distortion too, where like we'd experience a life with no pain and no death. And it's like we won't have any money. We won't have any death. Nobody will ever experience a trauma or an undesirable emotion and everything perfect and we will just live happily ever after. And like that, I don't know, I don't think we came here to experience or that we definitely didn't come here to experience that. Like the only thing guaranteed is that we will cease to exist physically at one point. So we can't escape death in this realm. Similarly, when we look at nature, nature is very destructive. And so if we are not separate from nature, there's going to be an aspect of ourselves that can access that destruction. And I think we're witnessing the hijacking of that aspect of self that is, yeah, that is utter destruction. Yep. Yep. And, you know, like we're all individuals as well. Like on some level, how can I not be grateful for Zionism that I was able to grow up in the West and have the opportunities that were afforded to me in the West? Are we here for the truth? Isn't that the truth? I mean, shit. Yeah. It's hard to say, you know? Yes, it's hard to say, but it's the truth. I might still be a shepherd out in the village. Like my grandfather, I've told this story before, you know, my grandfather, I shared the same name with him. I shared the same birthday as him. And his entire village was decimated. They held up like a very, very powerful stronghold at the time. But like my grandfather became a very well-known academic and scholar in the Middle East. And it was through pain, it was through losing his country, it was through everything being taken from him that he became the man he died as. And so as I was there at 16, burying this man with my bare hands with my father, seeing hundreds of people attending his burial, it was like, holy shit, without everything that happened to him, this man would have never become the man he was. And like he's been awarded, like, yeah, he just, he turned, he was, he gave me the blueprint of alchemy. And although he died with a lot of that pain and that grief and that anger and passed that down to my father and my father passed that down to me. The fact is that without the lead, without, like you said, without Zionism, which we're feeling is like this dense energetic that's trying to like pull us down, let's say without this lead, we could not have the process of alchemy. We could not have this like massive expansion of consciousness. As we said, we pray that millions awaken through this portal that has been opened. Yeah. And this is, this is like in a world that like the culture society, it wants you, it wants you to feel guilty about reality. It wants you to feel guilty about the truth. But, and it really wants to pigeonhole you into single narratives, you know, but standing here as an individual with an infinite amount of experiences available to me, the infinite amount of variables that make up the totality of who I am and the experience that I'm having, you can't fucking pigeonhole that. You know, it's like, there's so many different ways to look at this. And I'm tired, I'm tired of the, I'm tired of the projection, bro. It's like multiple things can be true at the same time. You know, it can be true that I'm Palestinian and I'm connected to the land and I'm connected to these people and I feel immense pain and suffering when I think about what they're experiencing. And it can be true that, you know, I don't want to be guilted and so motivated to have to speak on this 24 seven as well. Yeah. And that's where it comes back to you, bro. What is the highest truth in your heart, right? Like if you feel guilted into speaking on it, then that's showing you something within yourself that you secretly feel guilty. And it has nothing to do with that one guy or people in your DMs being like, you stop talking about this. Why don't you keep talking about it? Yeah. And I don't, but just like generally speaking, like that's the sentiment of a large group of people right now, you know? I got you. And I was in Scotland, I went to Scotland with my wife and had this trip planned and it was like, fuck man, how do I go and enjoy this trip now? Like I feel guilty about even leaving my house and the war room of my son to go and take my wife to Scotland, do this like hand fasting ceremony. And like, yeah, I feel it's this, maybe they refer to it as like survivor's guilt or whatever privilege or whatever. At the end of the day, I'm here for a reason and I owe it to these people to live my purpose, to live in my joy and to also speak, to speak my truth, man. Yeah, man. And for me, like I think, you know, the purpose that I'm really feeling into through this is just like helping people recognize that there's so many different ways of observing this situation. There's so many different people perceiving this very, very differently, you know? And I think really widening and broadening ourselves consciously in that regards, recognize what's the saying? There's so many different ways to skin a cat, you know, so to speak. And, you know, people need to give themselves their own grace of going through a truth discovery process as well. And I think when we feel fear or we feel scared or we feel even guilt again to like observe something from a different angle, that's kind of where our work then lies, you know? And, you know, can you sympathize with a Zionist? If you're a Zionist, can you sympathize with a Palestinian? You know, can you really try to put yourself, you know, on the other side and see it through their eyes? And again, none of that means, you know, justifying the death of innocents, the death of civilians. But it's just, it's so multifaceted, man. It's so multi-pronged. I don't know. We're going through a break. I got you, man. I got you. Yeah, we truly walked a mile in a man's shoes. We truly walked one step in another man, let alone a mile, right? To cast all this judgment. And as multi-dimensional beings, we're having a multi-dimensional experience. And if we have just, if we have this like tunnel vision with one fucking narrative, then chances are we're not seeing clearly. We're not receiving as much information through what we're witnessing. And yeah, how do you put yourself in the shoes of the oppressor, the oppressed, even just the, the, the, the innocent bystander witnessing this unfolding, like, like Yerasimo said, like October Gates, like, where's your sense? Take a sense. It's like, bro, I just opened my, I just opened the door. What are you talking about? Yeah. Well, even like you said, have grace for ourselves. Like we have to have grace for others and their own process of exploring what they're exploring and living what they're living and experiencing what they're experiencing. You know? And, but you can't do that unless you offer it to yourself first, you know? Yeah. And you know, for many people, this is their first time even hearing about Palestine. I know, dude. Like, and what's been happening, like they probably had this far distant narrative of like Palestine and Israel and the war between these two people. But like, this is the first time people are, are actually like doing research, checking out the history, receiving different opinions, like opening themselves up to what's there. And like, we are quick to condemn people for not, um, uh, being on the right side in a sense, like you're, you might be losing, um, advocates and allies in the process and condemning these people. Like it's just been losing friends, losing friends in the process because of how you speak to someone, you know? Like, yeah, it's just coming back to grace and compassion and mercy and forgiveness and just our ability to, to not lose ourselves and like, really not lose ourselves. Like it's just sad. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:28:25 - 1:28:26) Yeah. That's right. [Speaker 1] (1:28:26 - 1:38:10) That's right. It's just been sad. It's been heavy. And then everybody's processing it their own way. And may we continue to find our path. May we continue to find our way through it all and, uh, continue to build these bridges and, um, and also to the importance of, of holding a vision. This is what I've come to understand is like, are we so stuck in what we see that we're unable to hold a vision of a different world, right? We oftentimes will get like latched on and tethered to this, this lower timeline that we're, this is all that we see dystopia. Like we are fucking ushering in dystopia. That's all we're looking at. You know? And like, as people who can see, like hold a vision to a higher timeline, hold a vision to, to, to a world where, you know, where there is more cohesion and, and, and. Yeah. I agree with you, man. I think that's part of the agenda is like keeping us, you know, obviously it is, you know, in sustained crisis. We know that, but also just keeping us in this perpetual thing of like, oh, things are never going to resolve or things will never work out. Or we're never gonna, there's never going to be a peace in the Middle East, so to speak. And like, as I mentioned on the way forward with Alec, like people thought the same thing about South Africa, you know, but like apartheid in South Africa eventually ended. And there's so many examples throughout history of this, where we think like, this is just perpetual never ending, you know, but it's not, it's not the case and people need to keep that window open. And this is where the power of language comes into play. You know, we did a great episode with Danny Katz on how language creates a reality. So it's like, what, what languaging, what words are we using as we speak, you know, as we speak about our vision and what we want for the world. And I think this is where like kind of stepping away a lot from this algorithmic programming from the media, from social media that has all these different like wordings and phrases that get kind of imprinted into us, you know, and how we can separate and then create our own, our own way of speaking about things that's more empowering. Even like war, bro, like people keep referring to this as a war. Like it's not a war. It's not a war. You have two classes of people in a single fucking territory. You know, this is, we're talking about apartheid. We're not talking about war. It's not like there's two different territories, you know. Um, it's literally two, two, two groups of people who are afforded different rights living on the same land. Yeah. Or the conflict or it's like the, the, the trapping and the words, even in the news headlines, I know you guys have seen it and stuff like it's just, yeah, the, the power of our words and how we're choosing to identify with what we're seeing and that being how we see it. Like, yeah, it's not a fucking war. Like, um, yeah. Where do we go from here, brothers? I know, bro. Hopefully we haven't left people more confused than when we started. Well, you know, sometimes confusion is, is what's needed to, to go on to take the next step. It is, man. You know, in your own personal process, you know? So I just think, I think we covered a lot. We talked about different things, man. I don't have all the answers. So grateful to have connected with you. Uh, I appreciate having you, having you on, um, what'd you say? You have to get, you have to get lost in the forest, you know? Like it's, it's dark, bro. Moving through this stuff. It's dark, trying to find our way to, you know, it's where the path connects. And, you know, I think being able to speak about that is a necessary part of that process. And being here for the truth internally and in the external world, it isn't a pretty process. It isn't linear. It's like five steps forward, eight steps back, two steps to the side, one step to the front. You know what I mean? Like it's a journey and confusion is a part of it, you know? And then a lot of times using that pain, using that confusion is the greatest motivator to growing further. Yeah. Yeah. And I've, I've, I've been an advocate of like, if there is a clear action for you to take, it will reveal itself for you. And right now there's no clear action for you to take. Then that means continue to look at yourself, continue to, to live in your peace, continue to live in your purpose. Like, yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of distractions and avenues to pull us away from center and to pull us away from the truth that to lure us into deeper deception and deeper division and stuff like that. So it's important to remain centered, remain anchored and, and trust that like when there becomes direct action for you to take, it will reveal itself clearly. You won't have to go searching and seeking for the thing to do in order to fill the void that you're feeling of that discomfort of helplessness. Like it will be right there for you. If it's not there for you, then it hasn't revealed itself yet and continue to look at yourself and take care of yourself and to live in that truth. And yeah. Yeah. And just keep being real with yourself, you know, keep being as honest as possible with yourself about what you are genuinely feeling outside of, you know, the conditioned belief systems that are being propagated at us and bombarded at us from so many different angles. You know, just how do I actually feel about this? Speak it out loud. How do I actually feel about this? You know, um, we all need to come back home to that. I think, bro, thank you so much for being here, man. We definitely appreciate your time, bro. I appreciate you, you know, holding space, uh, too. And yeah, man, what's your closing message, bro, just to, you know, our audience and also how can, you know, people further get to know you and follow your work and your message? Closing message, drop in real quick. Um, yeah, coming back to the name of the podcast here for the truth. And it's going to be uncomfortable to receive that truth in a world of illusions and all of this deception and propaganda and all of this stuff, like to really truly be here for the truth. What does that mean? You know, and the more truths we are able to hold, the more of ourselves ultimately will be given to us. And so what does it mean to really be here for the truth and to show up for that? So, you know, I want to thank you guys for bringing me on and, and all that you stand for and all that you're bringing forward, um, I think to make this connection as well and to create this space for this conversation. I think a lot has come through here in terms of where people can find me, um, on Instagram pies, underscore, underscore, again, underscore, underscore. So pies double underscore in double underscore. And yeah, we're just, we're here for the truth and we'll continue to shine a light on all we see and step forward and hold in that vision. So, yeah. Much love, man. Much appreciation, bro. Everyone else. Thanks for listening. Take care, guys. Yeah, man. You know, the journey continues. Yeah, bro. You know, I feel like there was definitely like a conversation that needed to be had. You know, I think there's just some stuff that, you know, still needs to be processed, you know, through discussion and maybe particularly like with someone like, you know, Eisen who comes from a similar background and, you know, has come up with similar, you know, projected paradigms. Um, but yeah, like, how do you feel? Yeah, man. I mean, I feel, I mean, I don't know, good. I mean, just for the fact that we're continuing to have these conversations, you know, um, you know, I think moving away from like one side good, one side bad, you know, like it's just like we talked about in the episode, man. There's so many angles. There's so many perspectives. There's so many lived experiences. There's so many things going on, you know? And again, that's why we do what we do and we have the conversations we've had and we've had a few on this subject and they've all been extremely, extremely different. And so to any individual that just listens to one episode and then does the things that we were talking about in this episode where you just immediately get triggered and immediately like troll or scream or yell at someone, like look in the mirror, where's the work that needs to be done? This process fucking takes work. I don't have all the answers. I say it all the time, like especially around this specific issue. Yeah. And even other people who have dove into the depths of this, they come to realizations like, oh, well, maybe I don't have the full picture. Yeah. So, you know, give yourself some grace, give others grace. You know, we're all on this journey. Take care of yourself, take care of your health, you know, work on yourself so you can communicate clearly and with clarity and with compassion and with empathy as best as you can. Not going to be perfect. You're going to have to stumble. You're going to have to mess things up so you can learn. Yeah. But keep an open mind and open heart. Yeah, bro. Perfectly said, man. Continue to live your life. You know, continue to tap into that deeper sense of authenticity, the deeper sense of what it means to be human. You know, those innate gifts that you alone have and are here to bring forth, you know, and I think keeping that creative flow, you know, to whatever degree you can with whatever containers or vessels that are available to you, you know, that creativity, that's your life force and I think that's really needed, you know, for each individual now more than ever because when we're not creative, we're stagnant. I agree, man. Yeah. All right, guys. Take care.