Joel & Yerasimos The Pain of a Life Unlived

[Speaker 2] (0:10 - 1:21) We all possess an inborn creative force that wants to become active. The human mind is naturally creative, constantly looking to make associations and connections between things and ideas. It wants to explore, to discover new aspects of the world, and to invent. To express this creative force is our greatest desire, and the stifling of it the source of our misery. That's a quote by Robert Greene in his book, Mastery. And I guess today, one thing that we want to highlight and have a discussion on is just the importance of continuing to mobilize this creative force and for you to pursue your highest calling. In a world full of distractions and chaos and things that want to take a hold and make us seem as though we should prioritize our energy elsewhere, and in a world that numbs us from what is true to us in terms of our passions, our desires, what's really calling us forward, how do we continue to, I guess, mobilize ourselves and orient ourselves towards continuing to be creative and continuing to climb the mountain, even as we get older? [Speaker 1] (1:24 - 2:44) Yeah, you make a good point there. That's a great quote. And the reality is that since the beginning of time, there have been distractions. Now I think they're on steroids now these days with everything that's happening in the world and with social media. But ultimately on some level, what do you have control over to some degree? You know, there's like two foot by two foot piece of real estate that you're always standing on. It is your life. Like, what are you doing with it? How are you managing your time? How are you tapping into that innate creative spirit? A quote that I've shared very often here is, the most creative act you'll ever undertake is the act of creating yourself. So sure, you can be an artist. Sure you can be a writer. Sure you can be a dancer. You know, something that is considered in more like conventionally creative. But you are a work of creation, you as a human being. And so what do you do on your day to day life to support that, to improve, to have better relationships, to think more consciously, to go after your dreams, to get healthier, to get more fit? I mean, that's something that I'm navigating in my own life. So what are you doing about that? And then what is keeping you from doing it? [Speaker 2] (2:45 - 5:10) Yeah. Well, it just seems to me that the cure for so much of the, you know, numbing and suffering and depressiveness and aloofness that we experience just boils down to us not creating. Like as Nietzsche says, he says, creation, that is the great redemption from suffering and it's life's growing light. And I can only speak for myself on the days where I feel as though I've clocked way too many hours on my phone, I've rationalized not sitting down and getting done what needs to be done. Those are the days when personally speaking, like I feel the most disconnected. I feel the furthest away from my offensive path. And yet the days when, you know, with vigor I decide to sit down and do the work and get done what needs to be done and be creative, like that's when life force follows and life force flows. And there's so many, there's impulses and energies which tend to block us from fully engaging with this creative process. Like as Steven Pressfield calls it, there's resistance which comes, right? And I think for many of us, the sense that I get is that we feel as though there needs to be the perfectly most ripe circumstances and energy levels even within us for us to finally sit down and do what needs to be done. But I kind of oppose that and I feel as though every single day we enter the battlefield and every single day there's going to be resistance, there's going to be fear, there's going to be, you know, circumstances which we can use to rationalize and justify what we're not doing, what needs to be done. But I think the only way to really train the muscle of being creative is to do it anyway. And the more that we ignore that and the more that we succumb to the resistance and through the fear and through the laziness, et cetera, et cetera, the more we're setting ourselves up and fostering a life that is going to be sad, in my view. [Speaker 1] (5:11 - 7:12) Yeah, I agree with you, man. I think about this like continuum of being like, I guess you would say like a creator or a consumer or just an observer or a producer. And it goes hand in hand with me with devices. Am I spending too much time on social media? You know, or am I realizing, oh, hey, I have things I want to do in my life. You know, for me, obviously, I live where I live and I'm really into learning about, you know, fruit trees and gardening. And so this is where I'm at right now in my life. And like when I'm outside fixing something, planting something, learning something, like you said before, like when I'm done and I come back in, there is such an amazing feeling that is rushing through me. But when I'm sitting around, like feeling sorry for myself because I'm like, oh, I'm tired or I have a headache, which is something that if I get a headache, sometimes I just don't I don't even want to do much, you know, even to be honest, in real time, I have a little headache right now. And so there is a part of me that wanted to tell Joel, oh, fuck it, let's just let's just push it to another day. Let's push it to another day. And it's like, well, fuck it. Let's just see what happens. Let's have a conversation and let's create something. What we do every week or sometimes twice a week with this podcast is we're creating. We sit down like there's consistency. It isn't like, OK, Joel and I met online three and a half years ago and we're both like, oh, man, one day we should do a podcast. You know, the one day, the one day, the one day. It's like, well, OK, well, let's meet next week. OK, great. When we met next week and then let's meet the following week and press record and start talking and then go through the creative process and all the other stuff. Obviously, you have a little bit more technical skill than I do. And so like in the in the beginning, some of the things like you did with computers and graphics, but at the same time, they were done. They weren't just talked about. And so what what keeps you from thinking about something, having an idea, but then not putting into action? [Speaker 2] (7:12 - 8:29) Yeah. And for many, it's it's not good enough and I'm not good enough and I'm not worthy. Right. But the thing is, you're never going to be good enough and you're never going to feel more worthy until you put the reps in, until you keep doing the thing. You know, there's this great there's this great example, this great story about a ceramics teacher and he split the class into two different sections and he asked one class to focus on producing the highest quality single pot imaginable, the perfect pot. And he asked the other half to create the most pots so that one half would be rewarded based on quantity and one half would be rewarded based on quality. And when they came back, what he found is that the highest quality pots actually came from the group that made the most. And this is obvious, right? Because we have to engage in the work. We have to do. Every warrior has to train. Every fighter needs to train. Every athlete needs to play a certain amount of games. There's no bypassing this. And so, there's this psychological resistances that we come up against where it's like, we don't even start. We start with ourselves from the very beginning. Like, what do we do? Like, what are we doing? You know? [Speaker 1] (8:29 - 10:20) Yeah. You know, again, a lot of people just see the magic, you know, on the outside. They see the piece of art. They see the performance and acting. You know, they see the Olympic athlete that, you know, breaks a world record. But, you know, I think of, just coming to my head right now, the actor, Anthony Hopkins, you know, considered one of the, you know, the greatest actors of the last, you know, let's say, 50 years. And that dude was doing, like, regional theater and theater, all these different productions. He didn't just, like, wake up one morning and was like, I'm going to be Hannibal Lecter, you know? Like, all the training, you know, working those muscles, like, working on his craft. Like, it takes time. Whatever it is that you're doing. It's, like, very, very, very, very rare. You might, you know, strike lightning. Like, one person might just have this idea, put it out there, and they're like, oh, wow, this is amazing. But generally speaking, you have to work at something. You have to put the time in, you know, even personal growth. You don't fucking just read the power of now and then be like, oh my God, I have it all figured out. I'm enlightened. I mean, this is a process of knowing yourself. This is a process of, like, going through life, of being a teenager, then getting to, like, your late teens, and then into your 20s, and going through challenges, and going through heartbreak, and fucking up in life, and learning from those lessons, and maybe reading a book, and maybe having a mentor, and going through these processes of continuously, like, self-exploring yourself, knowing yourself in the deepest levels, you know? Maybe you're faced with the desire or, like, the pressure to conform, and maybe you conform for a little bit. Then you go, okay, that didn't work. And then on goes your life, and you gain wisdom. It doesn't just happen. You're not 13, and then you're like, yo, I'm so wise. I could help anyone with any issue in their life. [Speaker 2] (10:21 - 11:33) Yeah, and the reason that, you know, there's a human tendency to flock towards, you know, visualization, and NLP, and hypnosis, and, you know, manifestation techniques is because there's a child-like part of oneself that wishfully thinking believes that it can just happen, and that wishfully thinking believes that they can just bypass the reps, the effort, the work, etc. And often, I mean, pretty much most of the time, ends incredibly fruitless, right? And people are then left wondering, left depressive, left again, you know, with internal battles, and, you know, self-sabotaging patterns, and cycling, etc, etc, etc. So, you know, the key is to realign yourself with realizing the value in doing the work, realizing the value in making mistakes, or making lackluster projects, or not getting it perfect right away, or not doing the 20,000 months, you know, in your third month of starting a business, right? It's like everything is a process, every single step of the way. [Speaker 1] (11:34 - 13:15) Yeah. I think this is where, like, connecting to nature, and really being in nature, you understand time a little bit differently. Even for me, like, I remember when I first got into, like, planting things, like, my impatience came through. Like, wait, I gotta wait, like, four, five, six, seven, eight years for this tree to bear fruit? Yeah. Are you kidding me? So, I have to, like, prune it every year, I gotta water it, I gotta nurture it, I have to give it nutrition, and I'm not gonna receive the fruits of it for years. Yeah. You know, and that's been something that I've had to sit with. And this is something that happens in life because we want, and we're being conditioned, and we're being trained to get addicted to, in some level, this short-term gratification. Yeah. As opposed to long-term gratification, and having patience, and putting in time, and putting in the work. And, you know, I mean, it doesn't help that we have all these apps, and we have social media, and all these things that can distract us, and all the pleasures out there in the world that just give us that feel-good chemicals immediately. And so, you have to, like, work extra hard to not allow these things to hijack your body and your psyche. And it's difficult. I mean, I know from personal experience, it is hard. And so, it takes a warrior, in essence. It takes a warrior to live in this modern world, and to see what's coming at you from all these different angles, and to go, no, I'm not gonna be swept along with the flow of this river. You know, I'm going to, like, you know, stake something in the ground and be like, no, I'm gonna do things differently. And that's, I think, a big piece of the creative process as well. [Speaker 2] (13:16 - 13:33) 100%, man. I love that nature and that, you know, fruit tree analogy, because I think that's just applicable to everything, you know? And even then, when the tree does start fruiting, like, is it magnificently abundant, like, immediately? Or is it still a process even from then, you know? [Speaker 1] (13:34 - 14:17) Yeah, man. But what, like, as an individual, like for us, and for people listening to this, it's like, well, what do you do? You know, what do you do when a part of you, like, has a dream? A part of you, you know, wants to be more creative, but then resistance comes into play. You know, what is that? You know, we had an episode with Sarah Baldwin where we talked about, like, the capacity within your nervous system to even handle a certain level of success. Like, can you deal with the challenges of life and the pushing down the road of the gratification? Do you have that capacity? Or do you need to self-medicate constantly just so you can, you know, have some baseline of feeling okay? [Speaker 2] (14:18 - 14:49) Yeah, but even then, the capacity comes by doing the work and by exposing yourself to, you know, titrated doses beyond one's comfort zone. And, like, for example, if someone went from a nobody to, like, you know, a huge, famous celebrity overnight, right? Because there's no reps that's done in between and all of a sudden they're getting all this attention. We've seen this many times in the past. Like, their nervous systems can't handle it ultimately. So, again, like, it just speaks to the reality that the process cannot be bypassed even within one's physiology. [Speaker 1] (14:50 - 15:02) I wonder what's happening in the nervous system of the Hawk Tua girl. You know, she's famous now. But no, man, I hear what you're saying on that front. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (15:03 - 16:41) Yeah. So, I mean, the call is to, you know, what is the underlying currents of one's life? Like, and where are you orienting yourself and aligning yourself towards? Like, is there a goal pulling you forward? Is there an objective? Is there a great work that you are undertaking? It doesn't have to be a single thing. But each morning and each day when you get up, like, is there a terrain? Is there a container? Is there a battlefield which you are willing to enter into and exert energy against and push up and experience victory and experience heartache and experience all these things, right? Because more and more as time ticks on, and as Rasmus raised the point of, you know, the technology growing in the way that it grows, more and more people are going to have the tendency to be pacified to the organic and to be pacified to those deeper inner dreams, which we all carry, which call us forward. And, you know, quote, unquote, mental illness, you know, like we've hinted at, like, this is you not living authentically. This is you not pursuing your highest calling. This is you allowing that creative energy, not giving that creative energy an outlet, and it becoming virile, it becoming toxic, it turning on you. You know, we speak of internal demons and entities, you know. To me, this is self-created things within our own psychology by us not honoring our truth, not honoring our highest path, not listening to those creative impulses. [Speaker 1] (16:42 - 17:16) Yeah, this is also too where, you know, we have to really pay attention to what our relationship to the group is. And by the group, it could be a friend's group. It could be your co-workers. Primarily, it's your family. Like, are you willing to climb out of the crab bucket? Are you willing to challenge the consensus within the group? Are you willing to be different? Are you willing to disappoint people? Because I think on some level, like, maybe not all creative paths, but on certain ones, like, you have to be willing to do those things. [Speaker 4] (17:16 - 17:17) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (17:17 - 18:36) You know, you have to be willing to disappoint other people because you know yourself. Hopefully, you know what you want. You know what you dream. You know what you desire. Outside of the projections of family. Outside of the projections of your social group. Outside of the projections of culture. And it takes inner strength. And it takes self-esteem. Something that Joel and I talk about often. We just did an episode a couple weeks ago on the reality and the truth about self-esteem. So, if you haven't listened to that one yet, I highly recommend going back and listening to that because you having the capability and the inner groundedness and strength to navigate challenges in your life is what's going to push the needle forward, especially in the creative process. Are you going to be Picasso the first time you lay a freaking paintbrush to a canvas? No, you're not. But over time, like the example Joel gave earlier about the school children, like, they're putting in the work. They're putting in the hours. People talk about like 10,000 hours of focused work in something to achieve mastery. Now, whether or not that number is true or just that's kind of thrown out there, it's a number that you can go, okay, I have to put time and energy and effort into something to build mastery, to have expertise, et cetera. [Speaker 2] (18:36 - 18:48) And don't let that be something that stifles you. And don't think that you have to wait 10,000 hours before you can put something out there or share what you do or move forward on the path in a proper, productive way. [Speaker 1] (18:49 - 18:53) Well, yeah, well, part of putting things out there is part of that process. [Speaker 2] (18:53 - 18:53) Yeah, exactly. [Speaker 1] (18:53 - 20:00) Like, we talk about imperfect action all the time. Like, if Joel and I got on Zoom three and a half years ago and like, we're like, well, we can't press record because we're not the greatest podcasters yet. Like, so we might as well not do anything. Like, no, who cares? Begin something. Suck at it for a bit. Make mistakes and just keep going. Because then like, you're going to build the confidence. You're going to build the self-esteem, you know? Like, I've shared this before too. I remember the first time years ago, someone asked me to do a Facebook Live. I literally was sweating like crazy. I was freaking out. I'm like, wait, the camera needs to be at the perfect eye level, like all this stuff that was going on. And then I went and did the Facebook Live and after it was done, like, there was like a really good feeling. And then the next time it was easier. And the next time it was easier. Like, and now we're 190 episodes in or so. And like, something that like five, 10 years ago, I would think was like, what couldn't happen is like, second nature now. Getting on, pressing a button, having a conversation, you know, not being overwhelmed with nervousness, et cetera. [Speaker 2] (20:02 - 20:45) Hey, take action. You know, I even think about the groundwork of our program Rise Above the Herd, you know? Like, and everything that went into that being born, you know? And we were called forward and ultimately, like, we decided to run with the program even before it was fully finished. And as people came into the container, Erasmus and I were building out the modules like pretty much week by week in terms of what we were going to teach, you know? So, putting yourself into the fire, you know, is something that's going to call your spirit forth as well. Get like, you know, what's the saying? Like, burning the boats, you know? [Speaker 1] (20:46 - 20:46) Oh, yeah. [Speaker 2] (20:46 - 21:17) Burn the boats. Like, fuck it. Burn the boats. Like, that's it. Yeah. And, you know, and now here we are, you know, 10 rounds later and, you know, quite a successful program, you know, which we continue to teach. But without that initial, you know, overcoming of the fear and the resistance and taking the courage and answering the call and taking the leap, like, something great which, you know, enhances and helps individuals plus provides value to ourselves would not exist. [Speaker 3] (21:18 - 21:20) Now, a short break from the episode. [Speaker 2] (21:21 - 21:58) Hey, guys. Hope you're enjoying this conversation. If you're looking to go deeper into your own personal process, our 10-week program, Rise Above The Herd starts again for round 10 on July 29. And this is a holistic, integrated, psycho, spiritual, physical, emotional, nervous system, human design program to really move the needle forward on you stepping into your highest path, actualizing your dreams, and just showing up as a more vital human being in all aspects of your life. Um, there's currently five spots left. Hit the link in the bio, head to riseabovetheherd.co to learn more. And we'd love to see you inside. [Speaker 3] (21:59 - 22:00) Back to the episode. [Speaker 1] (22:01 - 24:35) I mean, to everyone listening, like, I want to ask you this question, like, what is that thing that you keep putting off? What is that thing that, again, when you're going for a walk or you're laying in bed, you know, or you're daydreaming that keeps coming forward to you? You know, is it to sit down and learn an instrument? Is it to start a business? Is it to, you know what, like, I'm not really healthy right now, and I should probably start cooking for myself. Like, even that, think of, like, the creative act of going to the farmer's market or the supermarket and getting some ingredients and going back home and creating a meal and nourishing yourself with that meal. It doesn't have to be, again, this, like, massive creative project. Like, every day there are so many opportunities to create. And, like, I think, I personally think cooking and baking and nourishing yourself is something that you can do that can make you feel, like, healthier and more grounded and, like, pat yourself on the back. You know, again, it doesn't have to be to write a novel, maybe, if you want to. But, like, people think, like, oh my god, I can't do that. I'm not a creative person. I'm not creative. What does that even mean? You're alive. You have spirit within you. Like, every day, you have many choices do you have in front of you to make. Every choice in some way is an act of creating. You're either creating more of the life you don't want or you're moving closer to the life that you want more based on the choices you're making. So, again, high levels of self-awareness and self-inquiry and reflection are needed in order for you to get really, really clear on who you are, what your gifts are, what you value, the ways that conditioning has been influencing your life and your decision making and your relationships. Like, you have to have this deep level of curiosity, which I think, ultimately, is a foundation of creation. If you've lost this curiosity, if you've just accepted, like, oh, this is life, like, it's not. It's a very difficult place to create from. [Speaker 2] (24:35 - 27:06) Yeah. And, like, we understand, like, life is difficult. Like, life can be very overwhelming. I mean, particularly, you know, I think about, you know, parents with young kids and all the different things that you have to learn to raise child consciously in this world and then to support a family on top of that. And then, so, you know, I have to have part of your consciousness, you know, absorbed in the goings of the world and social media and the chaos that's happening out there, you know, and then to be like, oh, but, you know, I've got a life to live as well and I've got dreams, which I'm not nurturing and I'm not nourishing and some poor energy into that container as well. And then, you know, even on the physical side of things, you know, it's like, oh, but I need to go to the gym and work out and get my body moving too. Like, we have compassion and we understand, like, it's a lot. It is overwhelming. And, you know, this is why this is more necessary than ever. This is why this work is so important, you know, because when you step into creativity and when you commit to walking that authentic path, yes, there is a struggle, you know, in the beginning. But ultimately, this feeds you life force energy as well. And this is something that sustains you and provides you with the resources, the energetic resources to fill those cups in different ways and to make different choices and to show up to your family and to your spouse and to your kids with more vigor, more vitality, you know, more brightness in your eyes. And then, you know, as you recognize these shifts taking place, the value that you place on actualizing your dreams and your potential becomes higher because you realize how it nourishes everything else around you as well. And then it's like the way you prioritize your life shifts completely because you realize that it's not worth putting your creativity to the side, you know, numbing out, you know, just being a sacrificial beast and thinking you're going to hold everything up at the cost of really putting your best foot forward. It's just not worth it. And so you keep doing the thing over and over again. And before you know it, with consistency and with productivity and with execution, who the hell knows where your life could be? Who knows what friends you might make? Who knows what connections you might build? Who knows who you might speaking to? Who you might end up speaking to? [Speaker 1] (27:07 - 27:26) Yeah. I mean, we've said this before. I mean, both of us, if you told us five to 10 years ago where our life is right now, we'd be like, huh? What are you talking about? You know, but again, what you said before at the nail on the head, like around like setting your priorities, like attention is the greatest currency. What are you putting your attention on? [Speaker 4] (27:27 - 27:27) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (27:27 - 27:51) There are so many things out there. Yeah. You know, if you're a parent, I'm not a parent, you're a parent. I mean, that's an act of creation, creating and nurturing a child. You know, I mean, how many people, how many parents or how many mothers think of themselves as highly creative people just from the fact that they've created life and are helping to create and nurture this child? [Speaker 4] (27:51 - 27:51) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (27:51 - 28:25) You know? I don't, you know, you don't hear that very often. Oh, I'm creative. I'm a mom. Oh, really? You paint? No, no, I'm a mom. I created a beam. You know what I mean? Like even just that simple act is highly creative. So again, you have to be clear on what you value back to what I said before, because there's just so much thing. There's so many things out there. We're being bombarded culturally through technology. So if you're not clear on your personal philosophy, if you're not clear on what's really, really important to you, you're just going to be swept away. But whatever the current thing is. [Speaker 2] (28:25 - 28:37) Yeah. And we're not saying that you should be a tyrant to yourself either. You know, and so I have shitty days. Sorry about that. You know, I definitely have shitty days. I'm having one this morning. [Speaker 4] (28:37 - 28:38) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (28:39 - 29:04) You know, but can you get back on the horse? You know, can you know that this is going to pass? And maybe sometimes you just need to, you know, surrender to the shitty day. Maybe it's asking you to slow down for a reason. But don't get stuck there. Right. Don't get dragged down into apathy. Don't get dragged down into non-creation. And, you know, just let that stifle you. [Speaker 1] (29:05 - 30:38) This is where education is important too, because we're human beings. We have all these thoughts. Our mind does what it does. We have these bodies. Like, do you even understand how your body works? Do you understand how your body functions? Do you understand the physiology of the nervous system? Do you understand the architecture of the human psyche that allows you sometimes to like get a gauge of what's happening? You're like, oh, okay. All right. This part is a little bit more present right now. Why? What's happening? Oh, wow. I'm a little bit in a more sympathetic state right now. Oh, I feel a little checked out right now. You know, again, self-knowledge is the foundation for all knowledge. You know, we've said that before and I believe that. So it's like, is a priority self-knowing? And if not, why not? You know, we did an episode recently with Michael. We posted a reel on Instagram. I like the foundation of consciousness, self-deceptiveness. That we have all these padlocks on our consciousness. Most people don't want to know certain things. They want things to stay underground, unconscious. I mean, they don't even know that there are things that are underground that can come to light. Because what would that mean? You know, would that mean they'd have to leave an unhealthy relationship? That they'd maybe have to change their life trajectory? They'd have to deal with maybe some short-term, highly acute pain, emotional pain, existential pain before they, you know, push through to the other side? But pain is a reality. What's the first line in the book? I haven't read it yet, but Real Less Traveled. What is it by M. Scott Peck? [Speaker 2] (30:38 - 30:40) I feel like you've said it. Life is difficult. [Speaker 1] (30:40 - 30:50) Yeah, life is difficult. Like, can you just accept that life is difficult? Like, it's not going to be perfect. It's not going to be 100% pleasure all the time, you know? And do you have the capacity to sit with discomfort? [Speaker 2] (30:52 - 32:16) It's a very deceptive, unrealistic goalpost, you know? And I see so many influencers and people still putting it out there, you know, this idea that you can just have everything that you want, you know? And that you can move from A to B without a struggle, you know? And you can just manifest this life of your dreams. And it all has to do with your level of belief, you know? And what you're identifying with right now. Nothing in nature works that way. Nothing. And I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. There is a value in certain elements of reality creation techniques. But do not deceive and delude yourself into thinking that it doesn't come with growing pains, right? Everything does. And the truth of the matter is, they don't end. We still experience growing pains. If you are growing, there is an element of pain associated with that. But it's not bad. It's not the end of the world. It's not something that you have to run away from and hide from and it's going to kill you, right? You realize that it's leading you towards growth. It's leading you towards evolution. It's you building your tolerance and your capacity for life. [Speaker 4] (32:18 - 32:18) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (32:19 - 32:42) Choose your pain. Do you want to choose the pain of constantly growing and evolving and pushing through to next levels of growth? Or the pain, which tends to very often be subconscious, of not being creative? Of not living out and actualizing things that you want? Of being stagnant? I think the phrase goes, choose your hard. Like, what hard do you want? [Speaker 2] (32:43 - 34:32) And ultimately, from the highest perspective, we have to come back to, what are you here for? What is the purpose of this experience? If you are an eternal, infinite soul, living right now as a human being, what is the objective? Is the objective to let your dreams fall by the wayside, to succumb to self-sabotage anytime you're asked to do something hard, to not grow more truthful, to not actualize more creative potential? Even for those that like the God terminology, is that what God is asking of you? Do we think that's what God is asking of us? And if you think about then the other side of this life, or even when you're on your deathbed, and the regrets that might come with living, with unlived, stagnant potential, with choosing not to show up and not honor the fact that you live and exist fully, I'm assuming that that's going to hurt. And then let's take it the next step. Say you die, and now you remember life as a soul in some other kind of experience, and then you're looking back on this mission that you chose to answer as a human being. And when you look back and see what's happening, are you going to be like, I gave it my all? I did my best. There were hard times, there were struggles, but I still showed up with integrity. I still valued my potential. I still valued the truth. I still wanted to grow these inner dreams that I had in my time on earth. Like, did I do something with them? What does that mean to you? [Speaker 1] (34:34 - 36:16) Well said, bro. And again, I think this is something that I know I beat the horse dead with. But are you allowing yourself to feel the reality? To feel the pain of reality? You have to have the capacity to not just live in this escapist way where you're turning to the thing that's going to give you the short-term relief. There's a laundry list of the things that we say often, whether it's excessive scrolling, whether it's pornography, whether it's shopping, whether it's eating. I mean, just keep going down the list. Like, do you have the ability to look at a habitual behavior, recognize the habitual behavior for what it is, you know? Feel into what is the thing underneath that maybe this habitual behavior is keeping you from experiencing. And then slowly experience the thing that you're trying to not experience and feel. And then what happens? Because pain can be a motivator for change. It's one of the greatest. But if you're not feeling it and you're just a hamster on the wheel, then before you know it, 10, 20, 30, 40 years go by. Yeah. Sometimes the band-aid needs to be ripped off. And you're like, holy fuck. This is the state. This is how I feel in this partnership. This is how I feel sitting at this desk from nine to five, Monday to Friday. [Speaker 4] (36:17 - 36:17) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (36:18 - 36:26) This is how I feel in this relationship with my mother and my father where I don't assert myself and express what really is true. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (36:29 - 38:53) The pain of not taking a risk, even like environmentally or locationally when you feel called to move, you know, when you feel called to leave your comfort zone in terms of your house or your city or your country. Like, I remember when I was living in Sydney and like years would just tick by and there was just something within me that was like, are we just doing another year? You know, we just didn't feel right. And there was this call to want to have a new experience, to try something else, to move somewhere else, both my wife and I. And we decided to move to Mexico. And we've been having these amazing adventures. And we've been seeing fresh things. And we've been showing our kids different cultures and different languages and different foods and new friends and, you know, a whole different lifestyle. And it's fun. It's fresh. And it's exciting. And at the same time, life is still difficult, right? We still come back home. And there's days which, you know, are hard. Raising kids, running a business, you know, the weight of bringing in an income, the weight of, you know, not having much support in terms of, you know, we've got two kids and one on the way. And there's still that to contend with. There's still that to deal with, ultimately. But the reality is, is that we don't have the pain of living, you know, authentically. We don't carry the pain of not answering the call. Because day in, day out, we answer the call every single day. We've been living in Playa del Carmen for close to 18 months now. And come September, we're going to move to a completely different location, still within Mexico. But we're going to be seven hours from the ocean. I've never not lived near the ocean in my entire life. And this city that we're moving to is completely different to the city that we're currently in. It's San Miguel de Allende. There's no need for that to be a secret. But that's exciting. Like, we're looking forward to that. And we know that if we didn't make that decision, and we didn't honor the reality that we were both feeling that, oh, it's just, it's literally just run its course here. And so another decision needs to be made. And what comes with that? You know, like, life becomes exciting. It balances out the difficulty. [Speaker 1] (38:55 - 42:00) Yeah. Dude, thanks for sharing all that. I think sharing personal stories is important, you know, and how it relates. Um, so I'm going to go and share a little bit of mine as well, because you don't want to live with regrets. You know, you just don't want to live with major regrets that you could have done something different. And for me, I mean, shit, just I think just like you, you know, you worked in the family business, you know, during high school, I worked in the family business that my father owned. And, you know, I could have just stayed in my hometown and I could have took over the family business. But I went, you know what, I want to go experience college. And I don't want to experience it locally and live home. I want to move away and experience what that's like. And then you go and you live on your own. And then you have all these sorts of experiences that challenge you and change you and shift you, you know what I mean? And then it was like, oh, well, I'll get this job post-college and I'll do the right thing. I wear a suit and tie every day. And then there's something in, there was something in me where I was like, nah, this can't be it. This isn't, this isn't my life. I felt, and I didn't even know human design at that point. But for me, on some level, I was living my design where I was like, I like to do things that light me up, that excite me, that I'm passionate about. And so, after two years, I was like, no, this isn't it. What would light me up? Oh, shit, I'm going to go to Greece during the summer of the Olympics in 2004, you know, when my parents, you know, live part of the time. And I'm just going to, I love knowledge. I'm just going to read. You know what? And I was in that position. I was fortunate. I saved up money. You know, and that's another thing too. It's like a lot of times people make a certain amount of money and then you go, okay, I could hoard it away and live in a poverty consciousness to some degree. I'm not saying don't save. I think it's important. But if you're saving is keeping you from really doing things you want to do, that's not a good thing. So, I took my money and I was like, I'm going to go on some adventures. You know, and then that led to the next thing to the next thing. I don't need to go through my whole life story. And during that time, there were people that thought I was crazy. Like, how could you leave this job where you would have rose in this trajectory to be a person of influence, et cetera, in my industry. But there was some inner calling like, nah, this isn't for me. I need to walk my own path. Yeah. Like, so again, back to what I said earlier. You have to be willing to deal with other people talking about you behind your back and maybe like questioning you and judging you based on the choices that you're making that challenge their views of reality. Yeah. Because you're walking the path. You know yourself, hopefully. You take personal responsibility. You go, I have this one life to live that we know up. I mean, there are obviously theories. What am I doing with it? If I'm going to fuck up, then cool. I'll learn through that as opposed to, well, you know what? Let me not go on the hero's journey. Yeah. Let me not continue this process. Let me not answer the call. [Speaker 2] (42:00 - 44:15) Yeah. And the thing is the uncreative life or the inauthentic path like that is poverty consciousness. That's what it is, you know, and like the key to quote unquote abundance consciousness, like it's no big secret, which I need to hide away and charge you a million dollars for. It's flow. You need to engage in the flow, right? And flow requires trust. It requires you to fully invest and engage in life, right? Think about every time that you come up in, you know, doing something, which is going to bring you more peace, more excitement, more joy, more self-knowledge, even in coaching, whatever it might be. And the voices that come up, it's like, oh, you can't afford that. Oh, you don't have enough. Oh, this, that, this, that. And then like, do you sit there and ask yourself, like, is this fully true or is this something which has just been keeping me in the status quo and in this comfort zone where I feel stagnant and I feel depressive and all the rest of it, right? And just think about these way these programs operate our life, like scarcity consciousness is afraid of life ultimately, right? It doesn't engage in the flow. It holds back. It hoards. It's self-defeating. It lacks creativity. It tends to imitate others because it doesn't engage authentically. It gets stuck in this trap of comparison and compare and contrast and, oh, I'm not as good as that person or I don't have this as much as that person or et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, right? It's very black and white, even in the way it thinks. And abundance consciousness is not that at all. It trusts in life. It feels fulfilled within. It feels connected. It embraces life. It thrives. It's generous. It's expansive. It's creative. And this isn't just a financial monetary thing, right? There's incredibly rich people who have hordes of money who are living from a place of scarcity consciousness, whose days aren't fulfilled, whose days are constricted and repressive. And there's people who might not have the most ideal financial circumstances, but you meet them and they genuinely are abundance. They are vital as fuck and you see it when you look in their eyes. [Speaker 1] (44:16 - 48:10) Well said. Ultimately, on a certain level, as you're listening to this right now, and even as Joel and I are, you know, conversing, we're here based on the compounding effect and the accumulation of every single choice that we made in our life. I understand there's certain things out of your conscious control, especially like the family you're born into, the time period you're born into, the culture you're born into. But once you get to a certain place and a certain age, you know, like the responsibility for your life is on you. And you have how many opportunities to make choices in a day? Countless. And all those add up to where you're at right now. This is also why I do love human design as a tool, because it supports you in guiding you towards understanding your unique way of making decisions. Your unique way of connecting to this somatic intelligence, you know, your intuition, your personal intuition to support you. Because a lot of the times condition can distort you, you know, can distort your thinking. And you may feel something deep within, but then go against that intuition, go against that because you spent an extra 50 minutes mindfucking it and talking yourself out of something that was correct for you. So, again, this comes back to, again, education, self-knowledge, connecting more deeply to yourself. Because even though life is difficult, even though there is suffering in life, when we have more knowledge of ourselves, when we connect to our intuition, maybe we can reduce that suffering by 20, 30, 40, 50 percent. You know what I mean? And then, like, what would the state of your life be? Like, imagine that if you can feel into, wow, if there was 40 percent less confusion, less suffering in my life right now, what would it look like? It'd be game changing. It's not perfection. Yeah. It's just gaining more clarity and trusting, trusting yourself on a deep level and rolling with it and not being extra self-conscious and not self-judging yourself after every single choice you make. It's like, no, this feels right. I'm making the choice and life goes on. You just get on with the business of living life. So, you know, it's easier said than done. I understand that. It hasn't been easy in my life. Some things have been easier than others. But ultimately, you have to really look in the mirror and be excited about the fact that, like, you've been given this gift of life, that you are one of one, that you're unique, that nobody is you. Like, I love that shit. No one can do what I do in the way that I do it and how I say it. That's it. Joel, I can't do things that Joel does, especially create an entire hip hop album in, like, six months or however long it was. Like, but this is the mission, you know? Do you wish to accept it? Who are you? What do you really, really want? What do you want to create in this life that you have? Who do you want to surround yourself with? Who do you not want to surround yourself with? And if you're surrounding yourself with people you don't want to, why are you still doing it? Yeah. Like, take the fucking reins. Look at the world outside of you. It is batshit crazy. Turn on the news. What? Turn on social media. Huh? [Speaker 2] (48:11 - 48:19) Like, what are you doing? I love how your voice gets higher, the more passionate you get. Yeah, yeah, definitely. [Speaker 1] (48:19 - 50:08) You know, it's been pointed out to me. So, what are you talking about? Like, I mean, I get excited. Like, fuck, life is great. Life is so freaking awesome. It sucks sometimes too. And that's awesome too, because I get to feel it. And I'm a human, you know? Can you fall in love with all of it? But you have to be healthy. You have to understand yourself to the degree that you do. I don't have it all figured out. Fuck. There's so many new challenges on the horizon that I'm gonna have to face. You know? Shit, I fucking love the home that I live in. But like, last year, I hated it. Because I couldn't walk outside without being like, that shit needs to be done. That shit needs to be done. I got to fix that. Oh my God, like, we have hired someone to do this. And then they fucked that up. Like, what? I couldn't even enjoy living, like, in the mountains. Because of this process of like, all this other shit that needed to be done. You know? So, it's like, it's just crazy. Life is a trip in that regards. So, you know, take a really deep look at your life. Be honest with yourself. Well, I don't think we've even mentioned this, but we've mentioned it so many times before. Like, you have to be radically honest with yourself. Not rationalize. Not justify things away. Take a look in the mirror. Oh man, you know what? I'm kind of a shitty husband, you know? Or I'm not the best friend. Or I'm not the best son. Or, you know, I can't believe I said that, you know? And I did say those things. And I've just pushed it under the rug, you know? Maybe I should call this person up and be like, hey, listen, you know, a few weeks ago when we had that thing, I said something to you and it was really disrespectful. And, you know, I'm sorry. I mean, how much of your life are you just pushing under the rug? [Speaker 2] (50:10 - 50:11) Pushing into the unconscious. [Speaker 1] (50:11 - 50:59) Yeah, like, are you afraid of confrontation? Are you afraid of speaking your truth? Of having a difficult, you know, dialogue with someone that needs to be had? Which ultimately, you were afraid of being more conscious. You know? Like, there's so many subtle ways that you can really explore the state of your inner world and see, like, where you're at and take inventory of where you're at. But I get it. It's hard. Not everyone can put time and energy into this. Like Joel was saying before, there's bills that need to be paid. There's kids that need to be raised. There's all this stuff. But again, it doesn't have to be perfect. Because if you're really honest with yourself, it ain't a time thing. [Speaker 2] (51:00 - 51:04) There's always going to be rationalizations that you can offer yourself. Always. [Speaker 1] (51:05 - 51:32) Like, if you're honest with yourself, like, you're not consciously using every hour of the day as well as you can. Okay? Like, with the 30 minutes that you've spent, like, on your phone that maybe weren't a high value thing, or the three hours of Netflix that you watched. Like, don't tell me that there isn't enough time. I'm not going to sit here and tell Joel, you know, there wasn't enough time that I didn't work out today. Because I know I'd be fucking lying to him. [Speaker 2] (51:34 - 53:51) I want to close on this quote by Marie-Louise von Franz. She says, one of the most wicked destructive forces, psychologically speaking, is unused creative power. If someone has a creative gift and out of laziness, or for some other reason, doesn't use it, the psychic energy turns to sheer poison. That's why we often diagnose neuroses and psychotic diseases as not lived higher possibilities. People who have a creative side and do not live it out are most disagreeable clients. They make a mountain out of a molehill, fuss about unnecessary things, are too passionately in love with somebody who is not worth so much attention, and so on. There is a kind of floating charge of energy in them, which is not attached to its right object. And therefore, it tends to apply exaggerated dynamism to the wrong situation. And to me, right there is the diagnosis of a Karen, right? Guys, thank you so much for listening. Rise Above The Herd is our 10-week program. It's designed to build authentic self-esteem, to empower you to live heroically, to break through stagnancy, to reignite your inspiration, and deepen your purpose and connections to yourself and life. We offer a unique holistic approach, integrating psychological, emotional, spiritual, and physical elements. And many of the things that we spoke about today are integrated into the program, including developing authentic self-esteem, understanding yourself through the human design piece, building capacity within your own nervous system, with Dr. Sophie Fletcher on board, with five specific nervous system workshops, on top of everything else that's offered. There is limited spots remaining, but at the time that we're recording this, there's five spots left. I'm not sure how many spots will be left by the time this episode comes out, and you're hearing this right now. But if you're looking for something to invest in, to push the needle forward, and you're moving towards your highest calling and living a more fulfilled life, then you can learn more at riseabovetheherd.co or hit the link in the show notes. And we'd absolutely love, there's no doubt about that, to go on this journey with you. [Speaker 1] (53:52 - 54:00) It's also, I want to make sure everyone knows, it's also a lot of fun too. Like, these 10 weeks are fun. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (54:02 - 54:03) All right, guys. Take care.