Joel & Yerasimos Sow, Build & Trust the Process

[Speaker 1] (0:00 - 2:28) You are now listening to the Here for the Truth Podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Yerasimos. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Here for the Truth Podcast. My name is Joel Rafiti. I've got my co-host Yerasimos with me as always. And today, like we do every now and then, it's just the two of us here. So, you're stuck with us. Yeah, sorry to disappoint anyone that was expecting a third guest. I know. I'm just seeing the data and the listenership drop off massively right now, realizing they have to deal with us talking to each other. Guys, I'm so soaked about something. And that is, first and foremost, I just want to say this before we dive into something real here. The Self-Esteem Reset, the mini course that we just launched, we've had like 160 people going through it since we released it last Thursday. And just the feedback has been incredible. And it's making me rethink education and the way we educate ourselves a little bit here because the Self-Esteem Reset is a 7-day mini course. And it's super digestible. The videos are less than 10 minutes each. And I think the massive positive feedback we're receiving says something about it feels achievable to someone before going into it. You know what I mean? And it's like, how do we take that and apply it in our lives where instead of just always focusing on the grander picture, all the big things that need to shift or the big thing, if I can make a commitment to myself to commit to something deeper for 10 minutes a day or 20 minutes a day, then is it our unconscious or this deeper mechanism within us being like, oh, yeah, we can do that. We can tick that box. And then you tick that box. And there's this feedback mechanism loop, which ultimately is self-esteem saying, hey, you're good. You got this. Let's keep going. And it's a really beautiful thing. So I want to plant that seed. If you haven't done the Self-Esteem Reset yet, it's at selfesteemreset.com. Once you sign up, you'll get into that straight away. But what are your thoughts on that, Yerasimos, I guess, to begin with? Make self-development so broad and such like a big mountain to climb at times when really I feel like that isn't what the path that necessarily works best. [Speaker 2] (2:29 - 3:52) Well, yeah. I mean, you took my line because I was going to say that like the act of doing something for less than 10 minutes a day and contemplating on a question and finishing something, you know, that is in itself a self-esteem building act. You know, you make a commitment to yourself. And yeah, I mean, listen, we are inundated with personal development stuff, trauma stuff, work on yourself. Something's fucking wrong with you. Now, I get it on some level for being honest with ourselves. Like we got to take stock of what's happening in our inner world. But like this idea that like I have to do everything, I have to heal everything, you know, before I take the next step in my career or go after my calling or I have before I get into a relationship. I just feel like there's so much pressure to do everything that what that usually does. It's kind of like information overload to a certain degree. And then we kind of feel this sense of paralysis and stuff. And before we know it, one year, two years, three years, five years, 10 years go by. And then like how much incremental change has really occurred. Now I'm not saying that like it doesn't, but I think a lot of times we can just be overwhelmed with how much there is to do. My life isn't perfect here. It's not perfect there. It's not perfect there. It's not perfect in this arena. Like fuck. And it's like, okay, well, I'll just keep kicking the can down the road. [Speaker 1] (3:52 - 5:13) A hundred percent, man. And it definitely stifles one's potential and what's possible for one's life. And it can create a paralysis for sure. Whereas like the question for me is like, what can I do today? In what level or to what degree can the needle move forward today? Like throughout history, nothing has been built just like that. You know? And even when I think about my own process, as I apply it to entrepreneurship, to building ecosystems within here for the truth, whatever it might be, it's like for me, it's always been, what is the next most important thing that I need to address? So you observe your reality. And this is what self-esteem asks of us is to have a friendly relationship with reality, with facts. And in that observation of reality and that willingness to be really there with reality, what is the next thing that I need to do? And ultimately it's like, what is the next problem that I need to solve? But again, I think that word problem comes with a lot of baggage these days where I think the problems of our life can kind of be made fun in a sense. And that's kind of the way that I'm beginning to see things. Well, I've seen things for a while, but that way, but yeah. [Speaker 2] (5:14 - 6:57) Well, yeah. And also too, just this idea of like, their awareness versus, you know, actually being able to choose differently or conscious choice. Like there are a lot of people that are aware of a lot of things going on in their lives, are aware of certain things in their inner world. They're aware of, oh, when this person says this, I react like this. But then are you able to change the reaction? So it's like, it's like this idea of even like problem awareness versus like problem solving. And so are you solving the problems in your life or are you continuously like moving on to the next book and just passively consuming knowledge, passively consuming all this information coming at us where again, that can be overwhelming in a sense. So it's almost like sitting with and contemplating a single deep probing question, I think can bring more value to your life than like reading the next like New York Times bestseller, you know, on, you know, personal growth or whatever the case may be, like really kind of like zooming in on something and how it relates to your life and then bringing your whole body in it. It's not just this cerebral act. Like you take in an information or you sit with a question, what's happening in your body, what's happening in your emotional world? And can you be with that? And it's such a big reason why we're such advocates of self-esteem combined with, you know, building capacity within your nervous system. You know, can you be with what's happening in your life? Can you be with the reality of you and what you're experiencing? [Speaker 1] (6:58 - 8:11) Yeah, for sure, man. And if you approached it, you know, in the way that we kind of described in the beginning, like just trying to like overwhelm yourself with all the problems of one's life, then it's like you can't bring your nervous system with you when you try to deal with life that way. You know, you're able to bring your whole being and your nervous system with you when you're just addressing the next thing that's there. And it's kind of like, like what's preferable? You know, like someone who reads 50 books a year, skims them, just rapid fire one thing through to the next, or someone that takes one book or a few ideas or a few contemplations and really integrates them is with the depth, maybe rereads that same book multiple times, you know? And this is that thing that you're talking about, like when it comes to information overload, like for me, when there's like an idea that really lands or that really resonates, like go back through that material again, you know, as opposed to let me just move on to the next thing straight away. And it's kind of like a mimic in some sense of the whole culture we find ourselves immersed in, period. [Speaker 2] (8:11 - 8:49) Yeah. And I agree with what you're saying. And I also think people take in information and knowledge differently based on their constitution, based on their blueprint. But the important thing is, how are you applying it? So some people can kind of skim over something, get a hit, skim over something else, get a hit, and then see how those dots connect, see how those integrate, and then apply it into their lives. So again, it's like, I think different situations call for different things and also different people and how they move through the world. That being said, yes, depth is important. Sit with something, be with something, you know, and see how it moves through you. [Speaker 4] (8:49 - 8:52) Well, I mean, as we always say, like the proof is in the pudding. [Speaker 1] (8:53 - 9:37) It's like, if you've just been consuming self-development materials like years upon years upon years, and your reality hasn't shifted, the state of your relationships hasn't changed. If you're an entrepreneur, your business hasn't grown, your learning process hasn't become more streamlined and has applied and made deep impacts in your process, then something's obviously wrong. Something's obviously not working. You can go to as many seminars, retreats, workshops, whatever it might be. But if the needle's not moving forward, you're the only person that can realistically observe that and make that call. [Speaker 2] (9:38 - 12:20) Yeah, I mean, again, I mean, you know, I love that line. And it's like, if you're taking stock of your life, what is the state of it? What is the state of your relationships? What is the state of your health? What is the state of, are you living on purpose? Where are you putting your time and your energy in your life? Where's your attention going? And if all those things aren't where that deeper part of you wants them to be, again, you're not a kid. You're an adult now. What are you doing about it? I just try to think back. My first post-college job, I was the only person hired out of my university to get this hotel management job. I was 22 years old. I was on the path of rising up, if I continued on that path. But it was just like, there was just something niggling at me within a year and a half, two years. And I was like, this isn't meant for me. But I think about, well, what if I didn't answer that inner call and just say, you know what, F it. I'm just taking the money that I saved and I'm going to go on an adventure. If I just kept going, sure, my life would be different. But I think when you keep getting that knock on the door of you need to make a change, you need to make a change, something needs to shift, you need to take action in a new way, but you don't listen to it, that erodes your self-esteem. It continues to erode your self-esteem. You continue to betray yourself because you're not honoring something deeper within. And again, not to say I have it all figured out in life, but I feel good at this point, where my decisions have taken me. And a lot of that has just been being able to sit with discomfort, pain, and allow that to motivate me towards doing something differently. And a lot of times, that was picking up a book, sitting with it, making time for myself. That's another thing. We're so busy. We're busy, busy, busy, busy. Beyond just work, life, family, then it's the busyness of moving from Netflix to then our phones, to then scrolling, to then this. There's so much busyness that even sitting with and contemplating a question or taking a book and sitting with it, do we even have that time to allow it to work on us? Or do we not give it the chance to do that? [Speaker 1] (12:21 - 13:35) Yeah. And in my opinion, some people are giving it way too much chance, and they're not doing anything. I'm busy AF. Living in San Miguel, Diende, Mexico as an expat, married three kids, now two rabbits, I'm running a business. I've got one U.S. mosque to deal with. I'm busy AF, but it's a good busy. I love my busy, because it's a busy that I've chosen. It's not a busy that was chosen for me. And I think particularly as a man, we have to choose the burdens in a sense that we want to carry and we're willing to carry. And burden, again, is a misnomer. For me, this is something I want to lift. And then the thing is, all the knowledge and the education that I find myself consuming in order to grow and evolve has direct application to enhance the way that I go about my quote-unquote busyness. [Speaker 2] (13:36 - 13:45) Yeah, that's the thing, dude. It has to be there as opposed to time that's quote-unquote wasted on things that isn't moving the needle forward in your life. [Speaker 1] (13:47 - 14:12) Yeah, exactly. And that's not to say that if you have... We're all at different stages and phases in our lives. Some people, sure, if you feel the call to go and dive into something abstract that brings you joy and lights you up, it doesn't necessarily have a real application. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that whatsoever. But again, it's dependence on the state of one's life and what problems there that ultimately need to be solved. [Speaker 2] (14:13 - 14:31) Yes. And what you said there, for me, that's important. If you're doing something that brings you joy, that brings you excitement, that carries over into your being, that carries over into how you look at the world, that carries over into how you create and impact your day-to-day life and your reality. [Speaker 1] (14:31 - 14:33) It has a direct benefit. [Speaker 2] (14:33 - 14:45) Yeah, as opposed to living in fear and doom scrolling and self-judgment. Oh, I hate my job. I hate my relationship. I'm so busy, but I don't want to do any of these things. I want to do all these other things instead. And it's like you're not doing the other things. [Speaker 1] (14:46 - 15:45) Yeah. But ultimately, and this is just like a subjective personal opinion, the best life for me is when the things that light you up and bring you joy are also the things that bring you value creation. That's vocation, man. That's vocation. That's when real joy, real fun that comes into solving the particular, unique, specific problems that tie everything together. And so for me, here for the truth, finding myself in this space, finding ways to deliver the messages that I believe are most important and the most needed and always iterating and enhancing the way that we do that. As it currently stands, I feel like these are problems that I'm going to be endlessly happy, joyful, and immersed in wanting to continue to improve upon. [Speaker 3] (15:46 - 15:47) Well said, man. [Speaker 1] (15:53 - 16:29) Even though it seems idealistic to some ears, I just always can't help but feel like everyone has that. Everyone has that thing. Everyone is born with something that connects those dots together. And I think it's maybe tricky or difficult from the outset to observe, oh, this is what I'm lit up about. This is what I'm joyful about. These are the things that I'm interested in. And I can't connect the dots to financial freedom or to value creation or whatever it might be. But I believe there's a way. [Speaker 2] (16:30 - 17:47) I believe there's a way. Yeah, totally. I would agree with that. Obviously, there are those people who play devil's advocate would be like, well, someone born in abject poverty in this whatever country or this or that or trauma or whatever. It's not the same. They're poor. You're saying this because you have a podcast or whatever. I get it. Not every single person on this planet is going to find their calling and create value from it and offer something to the world in that sense. In maybe the sense that we're talking about here as online entrepreneurs or finding that thing. There's too much mystery and uncertainty for me to be able to figure out why the world is the way it is. Why do some people are born and then die two years later and all of that? But that being said, you're here listening to this podcast. You're in our world. We have a platform called Here for the Truth. We have the offerings that we have. We're both committed towards moving towards and living a life that we're fulfilled by and that we're satisfied by. We want people that also want that to move closer to that and to have the things that deep down that you want. Hence, why we do what we do and why those of you that are listening are here listening. [Speaker 1] (17:48 - 21:12) I definitely don't think everyone's going to do it. For me, I feel like the majority of people can do it. This is never a path for the masses. It's simply not. We've been fed buckets full of shit for the majority of our lives to squash these internal voices, to squash these impulses, to develop these unconscious belief systems where the life of our dreams feels too distant, too far away, or feels an impossibility. We don't even strive. But when we started this process, I didn't know what this process would look like in five years' time. I just knew that I was interested in the process. And so we kept going through the process. Steve Jobs, you can't connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect the dots looking back. So it's like, impossibility for me is simply a lack of actually trying and a lack of will. Because possibility becomes more pertinent and more prevalent the longer that you stay in the game, the longer that you continue to do the thing. Start the thing. You're not going to see immediate results. You can't sow and reap in the same season, right? But you do it. You stay consistent. You build. You do it for the love of the game. You do it, as Nietzsche would say, hold highest your holiest hope. Hold holy your highest hope. We need that. We need that in a sense. Yet for so many of us, that hope is fading at a rapid speed. And so what I'm interested in, man, for real, is how do we resurrect that hope? How do we resurrect that faith? And the answer ultimately is self-esteem, right? Because like you mentioned earlier, the more that you ignore the calling, ignore the impulse, tell yourself you can't do X, Y, and Z, then that's kind of how you're programming this unconscious internal mechanism of how I perceive myself to be, this reputation I have with myself. It becomes weak. It becomes fragile. But you can turn that around at any given moment by saying, I'm interested in X. I'm going to do X. Then you do X. And then you continue down that path. And then you get to a point, as Nathaniel Branden would say, self-esteem is the competence to deal with the challenges of life, where you're like, oh, wow, I feel fit for reality. I feel fit to bring my dreams and make them manifest and walk that path and live that life. Because I don't think competence to deal with reality is necessarily doing the dead-end job that you know you fucking hate, you know is killing your soul, you know you've been telling yourself for five, six, seven years that you want to do something else but never do it. Sure, you might be putting food on the table. You might be getting all those things done. But are you actually feeding your soul? And if you're not feeding your soul, are you really dealing with the reality that you've been given? I'm not sure about that. [Speaker 2] (21:13 - 22:18) Yeah. And again, also, too, not for everyone. You don't have to just wake up tomorrow and blow up your life and leave your job. But it's like with the other time that's in your day, you know, are you finding moments to do things that excite you, do things that light you up, do things that inspire you? Because you have no idea how that can bleed into other choices that you ultimately make, you know. So again, it's like what you're saying, you have to start somewhere. Yeah. You have to listen. You have to listen within. And like the longer you go, that voice sometimes, it does, it fades away, it fades away, it fades away, it goes under more and more conditioning, conditioning, conditioning. And then you get to a point where then you're like, I don't even know what I like. I don't even know who I am. I don't even know what I want, you know, and feel even more like kind of stuck in the muck and lost, which means like, it's like there's more work to be done to uncover that. And so if you feel something, if you feel that pull, if you feel that hit, you know, are you betraying yourself and not listening to yourself? Or are you jumping on it? [Speaker 1] (22:20 - 23:13) Yeah. And you're asking us, we'll continue to play angel and I'll continue to play devil. And you know, in what essence, you know, when it comes to like, Oh, I'm not gonna, you know, blow up my life or whatever it might be. I'm not advocating for that. But it's like, how long have you been telling yourself? I'm not ready. How long have you been telling yourself? I don't have the resources. How long have you been telling yourself? I don't have the time. How long have you been telling yourself? Like, how long have you been underestimating what time resources and readiness you actually do have available to you? You know, like, can you take three months, six months, dedicate, try, walk the unknown path, deal with scarcity, fear, uncertainty, build your tolerance and your capacity for it. Because there's a direct correlation between your tolerance for uncertainty, your tolerance for scarcity and the quality of life that ultimately one can experience. [Speaker 2] (23:14 - 23:35) Yeah, I hear you. That's up to each individual to know whether or not they're bullshitting themselves, whether or not they actually can, you know, like you only, you know, like I can't go into your psyche. I can't go into your bank account to realize, Oh, if I make this decision, my kids aren't going to eat, you know, like, so there's again, there's levels to this shit. [Speaker 1] (23:37 - 24:42) Yeah, there's certainly levels to it. And I would say that the majority of people that say I can't, or I'm not ready. That's not the whole entire picture. I agree. I definitely agree. I mean, and it's deeper than all of this. It's deeper than just, you know, uncertainty and scarcity. It's because like, like we talk about often, like, what happens to my relationships if I make this choice to be more of who I am? What happens to friendships if I make this choice to be more of who I am? You know, who am I going to disappoint in that process? Whose judgments do I potentially fear facing? You know, so the resistance to growth, the resistance to self-esteem has a lot to do with these unconscious programs and unconscious patterns that are keeping us amongst the status quo as well. You know, so it's up to you also to decide. Like some people might be fine. Like I'm happy just to be with the status quo. I'm cool. I'm chilling. I'm not striving for more, but ultimately that's not who we're speaking to. [Speaker 2] (24:42 - 24:52) Exactly. I would be very surprised if anyone listening to you embodies what you just said, you know, or anyone who's listening to us. Is that what I'm trying to say? [Speaker 1] (24:54 - 25:52) There was something else I was going to say. Yeah. Well, I mean, the thing that I want to highlight here, and like we kind of touched on it a little bit, but it's like, you know, this idea of the endless healing loop, you know, like you listen to podcasts, you consume this content and you're just like trailblazing through like all of it, you know, like whatever it might be, German medicine, family constellations, endless healing, endless therapy. But is there a real world application to it as well? Because one of the pitfalls within this culture that we find ourselves in is also this idea that, you know, like I don't have enough knowledge yet. I don't have enough information yet. I haven't applied enough healing to myself. I need to, you know, homeopathy, whatever it might be, like just constantly is doing the whole circuit. [Speaker 2] (25:56 - 30:36) Yeah. That's a huge thing. I don't know enough. Or what we do is we compare ourselves to the people that we're learning from and we go, well, I'm not them, so I can't do what they do. And so then you just like sit there in this loop of like, maybe one day I'll get to the place where I know as much as these other people. When meanwhile, you're not realizing the millions upon millions upon millions upon millions of people that don't even know what you know. And so it's like, you can start something, you can start a blog, you can start an Instagram page, you can start talking, you start a TikTok, you can do these things and share the things that you're excited by, the things that you're lit up by, the offerings that you've created. And who knows, you know, especially if you're, this is the thing too, it's like, I've seen this often, you know, let's say you work in the corporate world or you work at a job or you identify as something, you know, it's like some career, you go through that process, you build these relationships and then you start kind of stepping out, you start learning new things or you start moving towards doing something else. Like very often there are people, you have people in your world that you've known, that you've met that want the things that you know as well, that want the support, that like, oh wow, I didn't know you were into astrology, like I would love an astrology reading. Oh really, you would? Okay, well let's do this and maybe you offer a donation based in the beginning, you know, get yourself out there and then you get some testimonials and then you're like, wow, I've actually got some great feedback and I'm pretty good at this. And then word of mouth, people start saying, oh, do you know Rick from accounting is a body worker or an astrology, you know, like is also doing astrology, like you should check him out, I feel less stressful these days, you know, like this is like you have this like world around you, have these people that you don't even know what they may be interested in or into because human beings, well most I would say, aren't psychic, they don't know what you're doing, they don't know what you're thinking unless you tell them and then you do tell them, you do open up, you do share something that maybe is uncomfortable or you're afraid of being judged by telling someone like, you know, you're into human design or you've been studying health in this way or whatever it is that you're into and then you realize, oh wow, they're also interested in that, you know, it's like we are complex as human beings and yet we show such a limited amount to the people in our lives very often, to some of our friends, to our co-workers and again, I'm not saying you have to like show up to work and like tell everyone everything that you're doing, there's discernment that's there but it's like if we had courage to share more of who we are, if we had the capacity to express in different ways and to tap into different parts of us, how would that then impact our relationships? What response will we get? You won't know what response you're gonna, you'd get unless you do the thing. So again, another thing, another thing I always talk about, we always talk about getting that real world data, that real world feedback, you take a new action, you say something different, you expose yourself in a different way and then you get to see and then you go, oh yeah, I think I was a little too vulnerable with that person, that's not gonna work with that person, they couldn't handle it or that person thought I was weird, that's fine, I don't need to kind of continue talking to them and you start, you know, you start then aligning more and building these relationships with people that really get you, that understand you, the totality of you, that haven't just put you in a box and pigeonholed you because of whatever you've shown them, you know, and so so many people out there are going, well people don't get me, you know, I don't really have community in my world, you know, maybe I have some online community, but you have to ask yourself, to what degree are you holding back, to what degree are you not sharing a big piece of who you are, you know, where are you letting fear and the fear and worry about being judged take over your day-to-day actions? And so like, there has to be courage, there has to be bravery again and at the foundation of all this is self-esteem, you know, self-esteem to go, hey, I'm going to assert myself in a way, I'm going to communicate in a certain way and not everyone is going to be into the things I'm saying and I'm doing, but you know what, there are a lot of people that are and there are a lot of people, let's say you want to go on the entrepreneurial path and build a business or do something that you've been training and studying in that are going to want your services, but no one's going to want your services if they don't even know that you have those services or that you are good at those things. And so at some level, you have to move past like, okay, I've accumulated some knowledge, I've taken some trainings, I've studied, to then moving out into the real world and throwing yourself out there to see what happens. [Speaker 1] (30:38 - 31:57) Yeah, man. Of all the pillars of self-esteem that Brandon, you know, put together and compiled for me, like, self-assertiveness, like, is so freaking paramount, man, especially when you think in terms of what we know, like, esoterically about the power of the energy center of the throats when it comes to, like, creating and curating one's reality. Like, if you're not authentically expressed, then you're going to foster an inauthentic life within and without. Like, the more authentically expressed you are, the more authentic the life that you're going to be able to foster and cultivate around you. Like, literally, your being in and of itself is the vessel of creation. It is the secret to anything you've ever heard about reality creation, and it comes down to know thyself and express thyself ultimately. And that's how you create the world around you. And like, if we're just shying away or living in the shadows or like you're saying, like, not appropriately telling people the things that we're into, etc., then what do you think you're going to attract in your life if you're not putting any signal out there into the world? [Speaker 2] (32:00 - 33:12) Yeah, you know, and it's also like, I think about what you said, and I agree because self-assertiveness is so important. And as we know, all these pillars kind of interweave and relate and build on one another. But along with the self-assertiveness, it's like the practice of living consciously, you know? And so it's like, you know, like, even how are you self-asserting yourself? You know, like, this idea of expression, like, cool, express yourself, but like, expressing yourself from, like, such a reactive emotional place, you know what I mean? And being like, this is my truth! This is my truth! I'm expressing myself! Like, that's one way of expressing. Or, like, understanding that, like, there is a way to express and assert yourself that is more conscious, that is more balanced, and that is ultimately the goal. Not to say that these things aren't, like, these are part of the journey, but ideally, you're expressing yourself like, this is who I am, this is what I want, this is what I will tolerate, you know? You will not speak to me this way, you know? This does not work for me, you know? This is who I am, this is what I'm passionate about, these are the things I'm sharing with the world, you know, from that place. But yes, we can also, you know, quote-unquote, assert ourself in a place that isn't, like, from a place that isn't the, I would say, the most ideal. [Speaker 1] (33:12 - 33:48) 100% man, I think you're hitting at a very important point. And when I think about, like, the archetype of, like, self-assertiveness without consciousness, I just look at the left side, left-wing of politics, you know, in a massive way, like, endless protests, just hear me, hear my truth, regardless of, like, how it comes across, or what it's rooted in, or even if it's connected to reality, or whatever it might be, you know? And, like, there's a lot of that happening as well, for sure, which, again, speaks to the importance of, you know, like you mentioned, these pillars working. [Speaker 2] (33:48 - 35:00) Yeah, and also the understanding your inner world and the architecture of the psyche, and it's like, you know, it's not what you say often, it's who in you is saying it. You know, you can tell someone you love them from so many different places, from so many different parts of you, you know? You can talk about things and express, yeah, your wants and needs from different places within you. So, again, like, how are you communicating? Is there balance and integration within you? Like, all this stuff, this is like, we talk about the work, like, this is the work, you know? Taking the things we're learning and applying it, realizing, okay, I just realized I didn't communicate ideally. What was that? Why was I triggered? What's happening in my nervous system, you know? Do you even have the education? Like, again, we're not going to the opposite side. It's like, don't consume information at all and just take action. Like, there has to be this dance, you know, the ebbs and the flows of different seasons for things. There's a season to go inwards. There's a season to work on stuff and learn and consume information. Then what do you do with it? [Speaker 1] (35:02 - 38:03) Yeah. And I mean, it's such an individual process. Again, it's like, we talk so often, you know, about the problematic situation of, like, pedestalizing anyone within, you know, self-help or self-development circles or whatever it might be. And so, like, at the end of the day, the one message which we always want to sow in as you listen to any of these podcasts is that you're an individual. And at the end of the day, your mind is the final arbiter of what's correct for me or what's not correct for me, you know? And it's so easy to get caught up in the allure of, like, this is the panacea or this is the solution or this is the answer. Or when I can finally afford to do this course or work with this person, then, you know, things are going to become easier. But I just want to reiterate and echo back that, like, you are that living compass unto yourself, you know? You are that teacher, that priest, that guru. You are the guide. And what it's calling of you is never this massive, monumental thing that you have to, like, deal with all at once. If you really attune and you really listen closely, and this is something that has been so true for me and I've said it since 2021 when we started this podcast, like, what is that smallest whisper asking of you next? And if you're really honest with yourself, you know what it is. And it might not be an obvious thing. It might be, hey, you need to, you know, rethink this job that you just drag yourself to every day. Or it might be, hey, you know that time when you weren't fully in integrity with that person and it kind of set off this thing within you that doesn't feel completely aligned or completely coherent? I think you need to go have that conversation and go address it and go deal with it. And then I'm going to come back and tell you what I think we should do next. But I think that is the kind of relationship that we need to develop with our intuition, with this compass. Like, are we really honoring it in that way? Or, again, we find ourselves listening to these podcasts, reading all these books, or are we kind of negating and tucking away that deepest, intuitive, authentic whisper and instead just looking at the big thing that might bring an answer that we haven't potentially seen yet? You always have the answer within you. You always have guidance available to you. I believe any sincere individual that can sit there and be with themselves and ask themselves, hey, what do I need to do next? I believe an answer is always going to be there. [Speaker 2] (38:04 - 38:54) Yeah. I do want to unpack and bring some more clarity to something. I know we do it in Rise Over the Herd because you had said something that I agree with but don't fully agree with. You say the mind is the final arbiter of what's correct or uncorrect for you. And then we start going into intuition. So I just want to unpack that because if we're tuning into something that's somatic or intuitive, yes, our mind, if we know this about ourself, our mind then grasps that and goes, okay, this is the direction I'm going to go. As opposed to, because some people can get lost in the mind fuckery of compare, contrast, oh, fuck, I don't even know what the fuck's going on. And a lot of times that deeper wisdom is within. It's not an initial mental activity. It is something deeper within. And then, obviously, because you're human, then your mind grasps onto this and goes, yep, this is the thing to do. This is the direction I'm going to go. So I just wanted to add a little bit more clarity there. [Speaker 1] (38:55 - 41:20) No, I think it's good clarity. And again, it's this game of semantics, but the semantics are important because each of us as individuals receive words in different ways. And so for me, mind, intuition, self, inner being, whisper, consciousness, it's this whole ecosystem that is you that ultimately spits out clarity if you're attuned to it. So it's not as Eckhart Tolle would say, ignore this, ignore that, pay attention to this. All your human faculties of higher reason and higher consciousness exist to work as this miraculous machine, this miraculous guidance system that no materialist scientist could ever really fathom or tap into. But yet you are that. You are that. You are this miracle that no one can comprehend and no one can explain. Yet you find yourself here, living in this reality, in this vessel, with this mechanism, with these faculties, with these passions, with these interests, with these pursuits, with this family that you came from, with this school that you went to, with these friendships that you have formed to play those cards. And it's like some people refuse to play the game. They refuse to play their cards. They just let life happen to them. But you were never designed to just let life happen to you. You were built as this creative being to make conscious choices in order for you to grow, to evolve, and to experience. And so I want everyone to listen to that and look within and ask, what is the experience that my being, my essence, is most wanting at this time? And when the voice comes in that says, that's impossible, you can't do that, that's too far-fetched, look at all this weight and baggage around you, I don't want you to just shut down the moment that voice comes in, but to question it and to sit with it, and to be like, if I was actually to make a decision, if I was actually to decide that I'm done with X and I'm going after Y, what would you then do? [Speaker 3] (41:22 - 41:24) Well said. Well said. [Speaker 2] (41:25 - 42:24) And if there are barriers and obstacles in your way from getting to that place, you need to ask yourself why. And why is that? And get really honest with yourself and do what you have to do to move beyond that. And again, this is where we talk about, there are great healing modalities out there. There are great systems out there. Use them to your advantage, to take you to the next step. But the challenge lies is when we get addicted to certain levels or certain processes of healing that we don't then start applying the thing. But yeah, sure, some of us have been through some horrific things in our lives. Horrific things that have disconnected us from this deeper voice. And how do we find our way back home? And that's up to each individual that's on this path that claims something, that goes, I want this life. I want to grow. I want to heal. I want to evolve. What do you do about that? No two paths are the same at all. [Speaker 1] (42:25 - 43:36) And there's always obstacles. There's always barriers to entry. If there weren't barriers to entry, nothing would be worth it. If there wasn't friction, if we just lived in a tensionless existence where anything was possible at any given time, nothing would have value. Ayn Rand has this example that a robot that just lives forever can't value anything because there is no scarcity. There is nothing that holds prioritization over anything else. Value can't exist. But the beauty of the finite life that we currently experience is that some things within our being hold more value than others. And so then we make conscious choices to pursue the things of greater value based on this scarce existence that we live. Human scarcity is the foundation of all scarcity. And its purpose is to drive you towards the things that you value most in your life. And if you're not leveraging that scarcity to move yourself towards value, then you're not living a conscious life ultimately. [Speaker 3] (43:37 - 43:56) Yeah. Your life, outside of again some things let's say early on that are out of your control, is an accumulation and a compounding impact of your choices. And how many times are we faced with this or that, this or that, this or that, this or that? And how are you approaching that? What are you saying yes to? [Speaker 2] (43:57 - 45:20) What are you saying no to? Are the yeses you're saying yes to align with this inner blueprint of who you are, this unique magical being that you are? What are you saying no to? Are you saying no to something that is going to bring you closer to what you want? Again, this is what you think about. This is what you sit within those moments at night before you go to bed, when you wake up in the morning, when you're by yourself, things are bubbling up. How do you relate to that? How do you relate to your inner world? You know, can you hear the voice that wants you to take the right turn? Oh no, I'm going to take the left turn. What will my fifth grade old friend think if I post this on social media? You know, what will my mom say? What will my dad say? You know, or even like what will another part of me say? I don't want to deal with that. You know, and at the end of the day, you know, like you're listening to this right now. Like what are you feeling in your body? When you go through your day, what are you noticing? What's happening? Do you feel expansive? Do you feel contracted? Do you feel anxious? Like feedback is coming to you all the time. [Speaker 1] (45:22 - 46:29) Yeah. And like, well, what did you want to achieve by listening to this podcast, by opening up your phone, Spotify, Apple, YouTube, our website? Like what was the state of consciousness in intending to listen to something like this? Because even very often, the decisions that we make in our lives, like our unconscious can speak through us in ways that the conscious mind can't even grasp. There's been so many times in my life where it's I wasn't looking for something, but universe, God, reality, like put something in front of me. Like your unconscious can lead you and give you hints and try to say, Hey, there's something here. Pay attention to me. There's something going on around this. Maybe you should, you know, listen or give more time and attention. Right. And it's like, so like, what are those things? Also, like, can we become attuned to the subtle ways in which our being is directing us in our lives and take those hints and value those hints and be like, maybe this thing keeps happening for a reason. [Speaker 2] (46:29 - 47:32) Right. Yeah. There has to be a baseline curiosity within you. And if that curiosity has been like conditioned or being out of you, how do you get it back? You know, it's again, like everything that Joel's saying, you're living your life. You have no idea. Oh, wow. Some person that you feel something sat next to you on the bus. I don't know. There's something there. Like, do you engage in the conversation? Do you not? Oh, you're like walking down the street and you look down and there's a book there. And a part of you is like, Oh, I kind of just want to pick it up to see what book this is. Or no, I'm just going to, no, I got to fucking go. I got to keep going. And it's like, what have you picked up that book and turned it on the back and then read something and you went, Oh shit. Like, I guess this is my book now. No one, I don't see anyone here. It must have just fell. I mean, I could wait to see if someone comes back or I could leave it, put it back where it was and go on Amazon real quickly, take a screenshot of it and buy it and then read it and then go, whoa. [Speaker 1] (47:33 - 50:17) Yeah, exactly. Dude, like one thing, which I guess like I'm grateful of as just a quality that exists within me and always has is like, I can't ignore that shit. Like the first time I met Alyssa, like my wife, I don't know if I've told this story on the podcast before, like we'd just spoken like a couple of times via social media. I was living with my parents at the time, but synchronistically no one was home, everyone was away on holiday and I was home by myself and I invited her over, ordered some Thai food, et cetera. And like the moment that she walked in the house, my entire being was like, hang on a second, what is happening right now? It's like, this was a preordained meeting between two individuals and we spent the night and just within me like yearning and vibrating was a voice saying, yeah, Joel, this is the first time you ever laid eyes on this woman, but you're going to tell her that you love her. And I was having this battle within like, no, that'll push her away. That'll drive her away. I can't do that. You need to tell her tonight that you love her. And so like within a few hours of meeting Alyssa, I looked her in the eyes and I go, this is going to sound like the weirdest thing ever and I don't know how you're going to take this, but something is telling me that I need to tell you that I love you. And she said, I love you back. And we've literally been together ever since. We've pretty much been married since that moment of meeting. We've lived together since then. And it's like, I'm so glad I honored that. That was one of the best things I've ever done in my life. Imagine what my life would be like if I let her go away that day or I didn't say the thing and we just did this traditional, is it real? Is it not real? Are we dating? Are we not dating? That wasn't our game. That wasn't, you know, it's like when you honor these things and listen to these things, there's like these moments and thresholds in your life sometimes where it's like, you just need to answer the fucking call. You know, you just need to answer the call. Like the cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek. But there's a difference between the fear that comes up when you know it's the right thing and the real thing and the fear that comes up, you know, just to kind of like hold you back, you know, from doing what needs to be done. Like there needs to be discernment in that arena as well. But we all have this incredible guidance system within us. You know, again, I'm just going to keep repeating it. And the best thing that you could ever do for your life is to become so attuned to that voice. [Speaker 3] (50:18 - 50:27) Yeah. And again, obviously, you know, I'm a someone who's a fan and a student of human design. And yet you don't need human design in order to tap into this. [Speaker 2] (50:27 - 51:24) And it is a system and it can support you to really like feel into like your unique way, your unique makeup on how you kind of tune into that. Because again, like, you know, this back to what I said before, emotions can be so seductive, so intense. And we make decisions and we say things from these emotional places, thinking that they are like the utmost truth. And yet if we waited 12 hours, if we waited 24 hours, you know, we got to some more clarity and tuned into our like our body and our feeling state. What decision will we make there, you know? And so I feel like there has to be this. It doesn't mean there can't be intensity, but like I think only each individual knows if they're just like completely just like overtaken by an emotional and by a reaction to go, OK, maybe I need to give myself some time. Like, do I have that discernment there? You know, I'm trying to say I told this or I loved her in a way. No, because I don't think you were like, oh, my God. [Speaker 3] (51:25 - 51:27) Oh, my God. I love you. [Speaker 2] (51:27 - 51:58) You know, it's a little different than just like coming to a place and tuning in and feeling something, you know, like again, there's there's anyways, it's up to each individual to wait. And they gave my story. You're asking us, wow. No, I'm not talking about your story, dude. I'm talking about what you said after that, you know? No, your story was beautiful. But like. How do you make decisions? I mean, it keeps coming back to that. How do you make choices and how do you make decisions and who in you is making the decisions? [Speaker 3] (52:04 - 52:10) Yeah, I mean, that's that's all I have to say on that. I love your story. I think it's beautiful. I mean, here you guys are. How many years, 10 years, 11 years later? [Speaker 1] (52:11 - 52:41) Yeah, I mean, the same thing when I proposed to her, like I never planned really to propose to Alyssa. There was a moment where I was like, Joel, just direction. This is the night you're going to tell her that you're going to marry her. No ring, no nothing. I was like, no, you know, I was like, no, it's happening. And I proposed that night, you know, but it's like, yeah, of course, emotional waves matter for sure. And with all these systems and any of these systems, too much education can mindfuck you. [Speaker 2] (52:41 - 53:29) Of course, of course. And a lot of the times your initial your initial thought ends up being the right one anyways. You know, it's just that like you're sometimes playing you're playing the odds. You know, a lot of the times you're like, oh, I'm just going to trust my emotion, trust my emotion, trust my emotion. OK, 30, 40 percent of the time, the shit's going to work out. 60 percent of the time it's going to cause untold amounts of fucking drama in your life. And so, again, it's like we add to the toolbox of self-knowledge, of self-knowledge that allows us to make better decisions and to have that better inner compass and inner guidance system so we can make more and more and more correct decisions so we can suffer a little bit less. Are we going to escape complete suffering in life? No, we're human. I don't think we leave that. But can we can we have 15 percent, 20 percent less suffering and drama in our lives? I think so. [Speaker 1] (53:30 - 54:29) Totally. But again, it's like. Take the knowledge, take the information, don't outsource your being to any knowledge or to any information, because for thousands of years, we didn't have human design for thousands of years. We didn't have, you know, many of these systems. And so, like, again, it's like, what is your personal discernment with the voice of your being? Right. And very often, sometimes that can be an experiment. Right. And you're going to learn, get feedback, get data and be able to discern the subtle differentiations between like, what is like an emotional high or an emotional low versus what is like a calling in a moment? What is it? Where is the moment where it's like, I need to make a fuck it decision right now? And very often for the majority of people to break the dust, I believe we need to make more fuck it decisions. [Speaker 2] (54:29 - 54:59) Let's fuck around and find out. But the fuck it decisions often, they're coming from a place of already contemplation and being with. It's not just like, oh, I've just been going down this path. And then in a millisecond, like for a lot of people, that fuck it decision has we built into that. And we're not living how we were a thousand years ago. We're not living 2000 years ago, like the zeitgeist of the time, the zeitgeist of our connection to the natural world is different. So it's like apples and oranges. And I agree with what you're saying. [Speaker 1] (54:59 - 55:13) So I don't think it's apple and oranges in terms of the relationship that we can have with our inner being and the voice of our soul at any given moment in time. I believe what was capable like to ancient man is also capable. I'm not saying that. [Speaker 2] (55:13 - 55:51) I'm saying in terms of what's in the way of connecting to that is different. It's like, why do we talk about GNM? Why do we talk about all these things? Why are people constellated in the ways that maybe they weren't in the past? We aren't living biologically in a sense. There are things that are different in our modern world that weren't there for thousands of years. And so a lot of times modern problems, you know, like there are new solutions are needed for modern problems. And so hence, for sure, you know, for sure. I mean, like AI, people are using AI, you're using AI, like, that's a tool that wasn't around a thousand years ago. [Speaker 1] (55:52 - 56:10) Yeah, totally. But like strictly on the topic of like, am I connected to the voice that's coming within? I don't necessarily believe, and like, I love human design, but I don't necessarily believe that like we need human design ultimately. I don't either. [Speaker 4] (56:10 - 56:11) I say it all the time. [Speaker 1] (56:12 - 56:53) You're comparing human design to like AI. My thousand year old analogy was about human design. It's got nothing to do with AI. It's got nothing to do with anything else. I'm strictly talking about the topic of being able to listen to the voice of one's inner being. Like, you know, someone, there's millions, probably billions of people on Earth that have no idea about human design and are probably making the best possible decisions for themselves, for their life, for their family, for their relationships, et cetera. All I'm ultimately saying is that, like, it's an incredible tool and you don't necessarily need it. Like you can learn how to respond to reality best by being in reality and by willing to make decisions. [Speaker 3] (56:54 - 57:01) I agree. I mean, obviously what you just said, how many times I just said that on the podcast, how many times I said on our coaching program, it's not necessary. Don't fuck with me, bro. [Speaker 2] (57:06 - 58:14) Anyways, you're one of one. You're a walking fucking miracle. No one is like you. No one is like me. No one is like Joel. Thank God. Okay. And so like, what are you doing about it? Okay. Sure. Be inspired by other people, get knowledge externally, but like, fuck the compare and contrast game because no one is you. No one can do what you do. Period. And no one can do things how you do things. No one can be me. I don't have all the knowledge. I don't have the wisdom. I'm just trying to be me in my fullest expression with nuance, with discernment, whatever. Same for all of you. What's keeping you back? What's holding you back from stepping more into your gift, your power, making decisions, dealing with the shit that comes up, having the capacity to deal with it, dealing with, I mean, come on, how many times you have to be willing to disappoint people? You have to be willing to disappoint people to get the things that you want. People are living in their lives, projecting on you how they want you to be, how they expect you to be, how dare don't go outside the box, stay in the box, stay in the fucking crab bucket. [Speaker 1] (58:17 - 59:58) You have to say no to that. Build a life and create a life where it's like, oh yeah, this could never have been any other way, you know? It's like, I wholeheartedly, genuinely believe that for each and every single person, there is something that wants to be created through you that only you can create and only your unique makeup, build, skill set, etc. can bring that forth into the world, you know? By following the authentic path, by following the next small, most interesting thing, ultimately, you're going to get to a place where it's like, this life that I'm living and this thing that I've created is the exact physical expression of my spiritual DNA. There's something that's there and all it is is like, what am I curious about? What am I interested about? Am I making authentic decisions with less fear that aren't being informed by fear, that aren't being informed by scarcity, that aren't being informed by XYZ. It's like, no, I'm deciding this is what I want. It doesn't matter if I go at a turtle's pace or I move at rapid speed. I'm moving towards something more interesting to my soul. Well said. Give us your thoughts, guys. We've shared a lot of dialogue in this conversation. We've taken various sides of different issues on different topics that we've discussed here as well. Share your thoughts, drop a comment, hit us up on YouTube, the website, Spotify, wherever it might be. [Speaker 3] (59:58 - 59:59) We love you. [Speaker 1] (59:59 - 1:01:02) We want to hear from you. And again, one thing that's at the foundation of every single thing that we've discussed here is this concept of self-esteem, which in most people's minds is this incredibly vague kind of thing. But Nathaniel Brandon lived, Nathaniel Brandon existed, and he put together a framework and understanding of what self-esteem is and how to actually authentically develop it. And this is stuff that we live upon, we stand upon the shoulders of giants. And so part of our work is being able to deliver these same messages through our lens and through our voices. And so we have a seven-day self-esteem reset. This is a free mini course for you at any given time, less than 10 minutes per day. And you can start right now at selfesteemreset.com. Take care, everybody. Thanks for listening.