Kirsten Cobabe How to Be the Parent Your Teen Needs

(0:00 - 0:16) Thank you for joining us on another episode of Here for the Truth. I'm Joel Rafiti and I've got my co-host Jurasmus with me as always. Today's conversation tackles something many of us and I know many of our audience are trying to figure out, which is connecting with teenagers in this digital age. (0:16 - 0:37) So we're sitting down today with Kirsten Kobabe, a former therapist turned family coach with over two decades of experience. Her unique perspective challenges traditional parenting approaches while also offering practical solutions. Throughout our conversation, you'll discover strategies for strengthening family bonds, fresh takes on education, and real talk about social media's impact on teen relationships. (0:38 - 0:56) Now, some of what we discuss might challenge your current parenting style, and that's okay. What Kirsten brings isn't really about judgment, but really about understanding and connection. So get ready for an honest conversation that could really transform how you view the teenage years from social media challenges to fostering real communication. (0:57 - 1:11) This episode goes deep into that subject. So with all that being said, thank you once again for being here and let's get into it. You are now listening to the Here for the Truth podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Jurasmus. (1:14 - 1:32) Kirsten Kobabe, former therapist turned coach, specializes in supporting families navigate the waves of adolescence. For over two decades, she has guided parents in learning how to listen to and talk with their teens. She engages parents in personal reflection, embracing their evolving role in understanding the teen brain. (1:33 - 1:58) In recognizing this unique stage of development, she helps parents to bridge the widening gap with their children and creating timeless bonds. Through compassionate guidance, intentional strategies, and a tailored approach, Kirsten empowers families to pilot these pivotal years with deeper awareness. Her work is not just about addressing immediate concerns, but about lighting the path to a more empowered future, ensuring that today's challenges become the foundation for tomorrow's brighter relationships. (1:59 - 2:09) Kirsten works with parents, teens, and the entire family with a holistic lens, starting with what is already working. Kirsten, thank you so much for being here for the truth. Thank you for having me. (2:10 - 2:25) Absolute pleasure. One way we always like to dive in with first-time guests is we kind of want to explore your personal hero's journey a little bit. Like what were some of the pivotal transformative moments in your life that kind of led you down this path? The most catalyzing moments, yeah. (2:27 - 2:43) Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think about my origin story and don't have the most succinct way to talk about it because it feels so layered. And like many of us have events that happened to us when we were young that obviously shape who we are. (2:44 - 2:59) For me, I actually decided as a teenager that I would help people raise their teenagers, but didn't want to have children of my own. So this is a sort of unique part about me. There's a lot of parent coaches and therapists that really have that mom lens. (3:00 - 3:13) And I sort of work from a different area where when I'm with you, people that I work with, they're my family and your kids are my kids. And we're all connected in that way. And it's really special. (3:13 - 3:31) And I think about that decision was really important. And I think it does help me be able to bridge that gap that you spoke about in the intro, because I can see both people very clearly. And as a young person, I was always able to tap into the energy that I was around. (3:31 - 3:38) And I always knew when there was something else happening. What was hard for me as a pretty sensitive kid was I wasn't getting clued in. I wasn't given the information. (3:38 - 3:56) So I was having to decipher it. And then I was learning to not trust myself or the people that were raising me. And so one of the things that's so important in my work that I carry from those moments of my own childhood into the work I do is being really open and transparent and clear, of course, in the most age-appropriate ways. (3:56 - 4:23) But, and within that, helping, that's one of the best ways that I see that I can bring what I went through into the now to support families and actually being with each other. Because a lot of the problems, we're creating them by not being clear, not being honest, hiding things, thinking we shouldn't feel the way we feel or having an expectation that's just ridiculous. So anyway, some of what I went through as a young person, I was so, so lucky. (4:23 - 4:26) I grew up on a farm. I had lots of freedom. But I also had too much freedom. (4:27 - 4:45) And I really leaned into getting that positive reinforcement from school and teachers and all that indoctrination shit that we're unraveling right now. And thank God that's unraveling. I'm so grateful for the people that have spoken truth with me over the years and have been really clear and honest, because there are some bubbles that need to be popped. (4:46 - 5:07) And they're school, some of them are parenting, how we do this, the stages of development are so key. And yeah, so grateful for the nature I received and that strong foundation I get to return to. And yeah, I remember being young and just knowing this is not the way to do this. (5:07 - 5:17) I remember being a young person thinking, no offense to my parents. They did the best they could. But there was a lot that could have been more supportive, engaging and honest. (5:17 - 5:30) I guess more specifically, what are those things? Yeah. The things that happened? Well, the things that were not right. The things that you sensed were wrong in the way that, I guess, you were raised. (5:30 - 5:54) Yeah. The things that weren't supportive to me, the things that were wrong, the things that didn't help were I didn't have a clue what was going on ever, right? So I had this beautiful freedom, this farm, this lots of time to play and be with nature. I had no idea what was coming next, right? I, again, was fortunate to have my grandparents next door and cousins and all this beautiful community. (5:55 - 6:21) But there was never this and here's what we're going to do next or feedback for myself and my sister of how of that we were even witnessed or seen or acknowledged. So it was very much that permissive, uninvolved parenting style that we know is even more damaging than the more abusive kind because at least that is, I see you, there's some attention, I care enough to at least engage. I'm not promoting abusive behavior, obviously. (6:21 - 6:40) But we know that the more uninvolved kind leaves children going, am I even here? Do I even exist? And do I matter? And so I remember feeling that and what it manifested into was anxiety. I had skin issues for a long time. I was just incredibly anxious. (6:40 - 6:56) And then the people that did give me feedback were teachers and friends in school, which was lovely. However, when we don't get that from our primary caregivers in the way that we all deserve, and it doesn't have to be 24-7. It's not like, it actually doesn't take that much. (6:56 - 7:08) We know that now. But when we don't have that, we're looking for it in different ways. And for me, it ended up later in life manifesting into a really unhealthy relationship because I was getting all of that that I missed out as a kid. (7:09 - 7:17) And it was, I mean, incredibly impactful, obviously. And I can see now the roots of that. It's just so obvious where this comes from. (7:17 - 7:36) And so my work, it's deeply meaningful. And it's not about me in the sense that I'm in a wounded way trying to support families. It's very much an integrated approach where I see what their cracks are and what those openings are, knowing that they're very important, even if they seem really small. (7:37 - 7:48) And there's a way that we can actually first just acknowledge them. And that's, I mean, sometimes 90% of it is being aware of what is happening. And that's where my parents went wrong. (7:48 - 7:56) The awareness was so, so low, just in their own worlds. Maybe survival mode, maybe me, me, me mode. It's hard to say. (7:58 - 8:38) And I think a lot of people right now, I'm not the only one waking up to kind of what was going on then? What did I really need? And how can I bring that to the world, whether it's through my own parenting, supporting other people or giving it to myself? Yeah. Would you say that quality over quantity is the most important in terms of, like you mentioned it before, like, okay, so your parents could be around you all the time, but are they really present? Are they really connected? Are they really listening to you? Versus let's say one parent or two parents are working all the time, but when they are with you, they are so deeply connected and attuned to you and present for you and hold you in a sense. Absolutely. (8:38 - 8:47) Yeah, absolutely. I even think about that, especially in the teen years, but definitely even in younger years. Because children, all of us, our first language is energy. (8:47 - 8:50) It doesn't go anywhere. It's never gone. And that's where we begin. (8:50 - 9:01) And so you don't have to say, hey, I'm here with you necessarily. Maybe for some kids, they just know. And I knew, and we all know, when someone's actually with us and when they're not. (9:01 - 9:09) And yeah, it's not about 24-7 perfect presence. That's not what we're talking about. And I think people can get really extreme with trying to be perfect. (9:09 - 9:22) And that actually just points to the way a lot of us were raised, right? It's like having to be perfect. Where did that idea come from? That presence, though, is something that I believe we're all capable of. And yeah, it doesn't take that much time. (9:22 - 9:49) And especially in the teen years, your kid's going to be driving off with their friends, doing their life. And so if you haven't gotten used to that concept, the teen years are really going to reveal that pretty immediately for parents. Like, what do you think is the biggest challenges that teens are facing these days? Yeah, well, it's so interesting to think about what's going on with teens, because I talked to both boys and girls, and the girls are like, they want the guys to ask them out. (9:49 - 10:13) And the guys are kind of, like, scared to ask the girls out, it seems. Like, there's interesting—and I don't know if it's because of, like, all the social stuff that was missed over the last few years, but there is this, like, there's a little fear maybe of coming on too strong or getting in trouble. I know we have bashed the boys for now decades, and we're seeing the result of that, at least in my opinion, what comes when we say this group of people is wrong or bad or something or should be different. (10:15 - 10:28) And I wonder about that. I also know, you know, they're figuring out, obviously, the tech stuff like all of us, and they're wizards. You know, some of these teens are just brilliant in that department. (10:28 - 10:41) And thank goodness, because we're going to need them, right? We're seeing that now in certain areas of the world, how these young people are showing us the way. And I think there's this cloud above it that it's just dangerous and horrible. And I don't agree with that. (10:41 - 11:09) I think, like any tool, it's how we use it, how we work with it. And so they really need, teens really need sound, sane, capable guides, parents, coaches, mentors that really get them and really see what's happening in the world. And that takes us knowing our blind spots, being able to unravel our own stories, take time to really be attuned, like you said, attuned to ourselves. (11:09 - 11:32) I hope that attunement becomes more of a popular word and concept because it feels significant. Yeah. To take a little, I guess, step back, how would you describe your overall or general philosophy when it comes to working with teens and families? Yeah, my general overall philosophy is everyone's doing the best they can. (11:34 - 11:45) And there's room to grow. And teenagers specifically or children are showing us where the work is and what needs to be done. This doesn't mean they're always right and you have to say yes to everything they want. (11:45 - 12:08) I think people think that's what that means sometimes, again, because it's like very extreme way we tend to look at things, our minds going black and white. It's really just, can we slow down long enough? Can we stay curious long enough to actually see what's being said, what the message here is? And so, yeah, listening. That's why I say talking with children, listening to children. (12:08 - 12:27) It's not because I want you to be a passive permissive parent. It's because they're actually telling you everything that you need to know. And I'm here to help people decode, decipher, and understand what that is because it's really hard sometimes, and we all know this in our closest relationships, to not have a cloudiness. (12:27 - 12:39) Keeping our lens clear is so critical and sometimes it's just not. Yeah. You think there's pressure and maybe this is just the way things have been going for a while for parents. (12:39 - 12:48) I have to be my kid's best friend as opposed to being their parent. Kids need containment. They need potentially some boundaries. (12:49 - 12:59) I just feel like this, oh no, whatever they want, I'll just say yes to everything. I think it's doing much more of a disservice. My parents, I come old school, like Greeks. (12:59 - 13:08) My parents born and raised in Greece, they came to this country. Now, I don't agree with everything they did, but there's some things where I'm grateful for. I felt held. (13:08 - 13:21) I'm happy. I felt like there was a little bit of discipline there where it was like, hey, I needed to understand certain boundaries as opposed to being raised as some feral child. Which again, I think there's some benefits to that too. (13:21 - 13:41) I don't want to just go into extremes, but I just feel like very often we see something happening in the world, and we disagree with it, and then we go to the complete opposite. We go, oh, maybe this isn't fully working either. How do we have this kind of healthy integration of opposite worldviews or opposite ways of looking at things so it can be a little bit more balanced? Yeah, it's all about the middle approach. (13:42 - 13:49) We do this. We see this in so many parts of our culture, the pendulum swing. My paternal side's from Greece. (13:49 - 14:01) I love that connection. Yeah, and I remember that my grandfather, it was never harsh boundaries or punishment. But I knew the container, right? And I think you're right. (14:01 - 14:13) I think often we'll swing or we'll think that discipline looks harsh and punishments and maybe even yelling and all this stuff. No, no, no, no. Actually, true discipline, we think about even the word is more about disciples. (14:13 - 14:27) So being someone worthy of being admired. How do we create that sort of dynamic with our kids? And actually, they're just ready and geared up for that. They are wired to want an amazing freaking relationship with their parents. (14:27 - 14:34) They're waiting for their parents to get on board with that. They're ready. And they do need to have some sort of container to feel safe. (14:34 - 14:53) All humans do, especially when you're small, because you are just like falling out of your body all the time, right? And if the adults just don't even have an edge, then that's very intense and can feel very scary. And yeah, no, it's not about extremes. It's that middle path of love and limits, structure and freedom. (14:54 - 15:10) And if you do enough of that proactive, preventative, front-loading stuff, it's already set up. And so that's another big part of my work is, okay, you're turning 13 in a year. How do we want to design like the beginning of your teen years? Or you're about to drive. (15:10 - 15:30) Have we gone over kind of what the world's like when you're a driver? Not because you're 16 and bad and you're responsible, because for all of us that drive, these are some of the things we have to know. We just assume sometimes, especially with teenagers, they're taller than us or they look like adults or they are driving. We think they know a lot. (15:30 - 15:34) And they do. They're incredibly smart. And sometimes they know way more than us in certain areas. (15:35 - 15:41) And we have to both prepare and protect kids. That's why I have parents. Yeah. (15:41 - 15:50) And their psyche is still being developed. Their consciousness is growing and evolving. They're more apt to maybe not be able to see both sides of a situation. (15:50 - 15:56) In some instances, they're more kind of like, okay, this is what I believe. Like, this is it. And it's like, that happens, I think, over time. (15:56 - 16:08) And I think this is where parents and adults, if they've done their work, can see things in a certain way and go, okay, listen, I get what you're coming from. And, you know, but I mean, I don't have teenagers, but I was a teenager at one point. Yeah. (16:09 - 16:17) Yeah. It's true. It's like there's a big – they can get quite fixated on something. (16:17 - 16:24) They're also trying on new things. Who am I? And all that stuff. And it's a very – it's an evolution. (16:25 - 16:34) And we need to allow space for that evolution. And we need to also keep them safe within that evolution. Because, yeah, their brains are not fully developed until mid-20s. (16:34 - 17:08) At least that's, you know, the most modern research around it. And it doesn't mean great things can't happen when you're 22. But also, how do we – how do we walk side by side? How do we guide them as they step into these new parts of themselves without it having to be, I don't know, it's interesting to see how our culture sort of encourages them to just know what they, I guess, want to do or where they're going without it being connected to any true, authentic part of themselves, right? It's like we don't have these coming-of-age rituals anymore. (17:09 - 17:27) And so, kids are just like – and maybe they don't even have parents at home or, you know, who knows? All these different circumstances. And they're just like, what can I grasp that's steady and sturdy here as the world's going through so much change and whatever? This is a mess and that's a mess and they're a mess. And so, they deserve that. (17:27 - 17:33) They need that. It's like being that, you know, that harbor while they're storming. A lot of the teenagers are stormy. (17:34 - 18:00) Oh, yeah. Definitely. What are the most common challenges that the people who reach out to you for support are dealing with? What are the most prominent reasons that people would come to you? Mostly, it's parents that are concerned their child is like a sociopath because they're talking back and being rude, right? And which is like all this common behavior that actually we can dive deeper into why that's happening because it's actually incredibly important, I think. (18:01 - 18:09) And then also school. School refusal is just rampant right now. And I'm impressed actually by it. (18:09 - 18:14) You mean that they don't want to be in school, you're saying? Like these teens are like, fuck this shit. I don't want it. I'm out. (18:14 - 18:24) I'm done. This is pointless. And so, both of these, and this kind of extends on what we were talking about earlier, what are the biggest things teens are up against? They are up against this world that's changing. (18:24 - 18:36) Our education system's obviously just abysmal in so many ways. And it doesn't mean it's not working for some people, right? There's the type A people that have great teachers, and it's awesome. Like, great. (18:36 - 18:44) Amazing. I'm never trying to push anyone in a direction that's not their direction. And there's an increasing number of teens that are just like, yeah, fuck this. (18:45 - 18:47) This is not working. I have to ask to go to the bathroom. I can't eat. (18:47 - 18:55) I'm learning bullshit. None of it's true, or it's not even appropriate, or I can't go outside. What is going on here? This is my whole childhood. (18:55 - 19:02) It's been inside with these, no offense, but often not inspiring adults. Yeah. That don't live inspiring, healthy lives. (19:02 - 19:18) Like, who's going to look up to that? That is the opposite of that disciple conversation that we're talking about. And very often not psychologically healthy adults that are doing the teaching, because they're also products of our academic system. And we look at how that's shifted in the last few decades. (19:18 - 19:27) So again, the product that they're putting out isn't the ideal. And I can understand why parents would be like, I don't know if I want you teaching my child for eight hours a day. Exactly. (19:28 - 19:39) There's a lot of parents that are having the same experience of, I don't want my kid to go to school. And sometimes they have the kid that loves going to school. And so that's very interesting, right? Then it brings up this whole concept that you guys have been going on here about the truth. (19:40 - 19:54) It's like, then we got to talk about how to stay safe in school. What's going on in school? What's the underbelly of it all, or the undercurrent, or whatever you want to call it? Because there's, I mean, every school is different. But there's some stuff that doesn't make sense anymore, if it ever did. (19:55 - 20:08) Yeah. And there are some rites of passage that happen, when we've experienced going into school, being in these environments, being rejected by a girl or a boy, or being made fun of, whatever. Some of these things happen that shape you. (20:08 - 20:35) And then how do you deal with those? And how do you react based on these experiences that you're having that add to your growth, that have the opportunity to build self-esteem when you're faced with these challenges? Again, it's not a one size fits all. And again, each individual is a different being as well. I don't know if you're not familiar with us and our work and our podcast, I don't think, but I'm a big student of human design, which is this esoteric system of knowledge that really highlights your individuality. (20:36 - 20:50) And so, some students might do better with a little bit more structure and discipline. Other individuals might need more of that freedom to explore and imagine and be creative. So, again, we can't just go, okay, everyone's going to go through this indoctrination process. (20:50 - 21:02) You all have to go through grades K through 12 and then go to college and then do this. We have to honor the individual. And then even within families, one child to the next child to the next child, there's differences there. (21:03 - 21:12) So, how do you navigate that as parents? Exactly. And even that one child goes through their own evolution and shifts and changes. I love that you brought up human design. (21:12 - 21:26) I often look through the lens of even Enneagram, but also human design is so helpful, right? Because these are just archetypal patterns. These help us understand what we're looking at. It can depersonalize it, even though it's actually going super into the personal. (21:27 - 21:34) It's like, here's the information. Here's what we're working with. What does this kid need? And of course, no teacher teaching a classroom of 30 or 40 kids is going to be able to do that. (21:34 - 21:44) It's just unrealistic, no matter how awesome or not awesome they are as a teacher. And so, obviously, it's set up for a different time. It doesn't make sense anymore. (21:44 - 21:50) It might. Maybe it did then. And we know that there's so many cracks and so many holes, and we're just struggling right now. (21:51 - 21:55) I love when the kids love it because, great, you're in it. You're loving it. Beautiful. (21:55 - 22:02) And I love when they don't because there's something there that's saying, this doesn't work for me. And I know it doesn't work for me. And I need to talk about it. (22:02 - 22:11) And so, I really encourage parents to just slow the F down. They start thinking, my kid's never going to graduate. They're going to be in my basement until they're 50, blah, blah, blah. (22:12 - 22:31) That's just not where we need to go yet, right? They're just saying, I hate my teacher. Why do I have to do homework? School is pointless. And it's like, yeah, what's the most pointless part? What do you hate the most? What's happening with that teacher? And get curious because, actually, you're going to find out there's really something serious going on they need help with. (22:31 - 22:42) Or you're going to find out they just needed to vent. And that's natural because venting and complaining during the teen years is learning how to process one's emotions. And that's also an invitation to the parents to be with them. (22:42 - 22:51) And that's what parents want. So, take the door that's open for you. Yeah, it must be interesting trying to navigate that. (22:51 - 23:01) You know, if you're working with a family where, like, the kid is expressing obvious resistance to school and not wanting to be there. But potentially, like, the parents are like, no, you need to go to school. You need to stay in there. (23:01 - 23:12) And also, like, from the parent's perspective, like, they want the kid to be at school. They want to have more time for themselves. They don't want to be as hands-on or have to, you know, learn to be as attuned as I think they should be. (23:13 - 23:21) And also, too, not many people are in a position, like, sometimes people are working. You know, both parents are working. Like, they can't just be home with their children or spend more time with them. (23:21 - 23:32) And obviously, it may be a little different in the earlier years than when someone gets a little older and maybe has a little bit more agency. But still, like, it's not feasible for a lot of people. Exactly. (23:33 - 23:37) I mean, and we know where this came from, right? It was at one point. I grew up on a farm. I was born at home. (23:37 - 23:50) Thank God I have that type of foundation for my system because of other stuff kind of not working out. But if we think about even generations ago, that was a bit more normal. And not saying it's the right way or the only way. (23:50 - 23:57) I'm just talking about what worked for me. And then dads leave the farm. And then kids leave. (23:57 - 24:07) You know, and it's all getting separated really early. And we know that some separation is super important during the teen years, of course, because it's differentiation. And they're having to go off into the world. (24:08 - 24:16) And that's why we had coming of age experiences and hunting and all that stuff. Wow, it starts really early now. And there's a big disconnection. (24:16 - 24:28) And it's like, no wonder we're having to figure out how to reconnect and repair and re-parent and all of this re-stuff. Because it's very disruptive. And I don't blame anyone for it. (24:28 - 24:33) It's the situation we're in. And it's what we've created. And I think we're starting to create something else. (24:34 - 24:54) And yeah, I mean, I know plenty of people that are small schools, big schools. There's all kinds of options popping up. But even that, I think what we even want to just spend a moment recognizing is that we can talk about this in a way because we've clearly at least thought about these things and have these varying perspectives. (24:54 - 25:01) For some parents, they haven't even thought that there's another way. There's just this one way, like you said earlier. And I did it. (25:01 - 25:17) And it worked out fine for me or whatever that story is. And that really can cloud our ability to be curious and listen and attune to what we're hearing, to what our child is saying. Because again, they might still want to stay in high school. (25:17 - 25:20) There's plenty of teens I know that are like, I hate it. I hate it. But I don't want to leave. (25:20 - 25:27) I love my friends or whatever. And so, it's not always this dire scenario. And if it is, you want to know about it. (25:27 - 25:42) And the way to do that is to quiet down your insides for just a little bit. It doesn't mean detach from your inner knowing. It just means pause long enough to be curious about their perspective, what's going on over there. (25:43 - 26:00) Now, a short break from the episode. If you're resonating with today's conversation about authenticity and personal growth, you're probably someone who knows there's more to life than just going through the motions. And that's why we created Rise Above The Herd, a signature 10-week transformational program. (26:00 - 26:33) Through our unique approach that blends shadow work, nervous system regulation, human design, and so much more, you'll develop authentic self-esteem, embrace your inner hero, and transform your relationships from the inside out. You'll experience 10 powerful integration sessions with us, plus 5 specialized nervous system workshops with Dr. Sophie Fletcher, 3-time previous guest, and Erasmus' wife. Working in an intimate group setting of like-minded individuals, our comprehensive approach has guided over 120 graduates through profound personal transformation. (26:34 - 26:49) Now, you might be thinking you've tried other personal development programs before. This program is for those who are sincerely ready to engage in the next step of their personal evolution. As our graduate Jess shares, I've literally spent hundreds of thousands on personal development. (26:50 - 27:04) This program has been the most transformational by far. So, this is your invitation to join our final ever live round of Rise Above The Herd, starting March 4th. Enrollments are now open with only 10 spots maximum available. (27:05 - 27:20) This is your chance to step into a more authentic, empowered version of yourself. You can head to hearforthetruth.com forward slash wrath r-a-t-h to secure your spot and begin your transformation. Back to the episode. (27:21 - 27:31) It's kind of interesting because I'm trying to like think back with everything that I know now and everything that I've learned. Like what I have personally have wanted is anything different. Like I don't know, it's hard to say, especially with my parents. (27:32 - 27:48) Like, you know, they're loving, amazing humans and I felt protected and safe, but they weren't the type of parents that were like, we're going to tell you how it is to be in the United States, you know, in the 80s and the 90s and how to live. It was just like they provided a foundation. I had to kind of figure things out for myself. (27:48 - 28:00) And then there's aspects of high school. I enjoyed my experience in high school and everything was perfect. But it's like, like what would have been the alternative? Like would I have just like started working and traveling even younger? I don't know. (28:00 - 28:17) I don't even know. Like what are the alternatives for like teenage years, you know, that people are kind of exploring that you're finding that maybe aren't going to the traditional academic system or going to high school or whatever? Yeah. Well, some kids are choosing Mackenzie Price. (28:17 - 28:24) Do you guys know her work? Two hour learning or alpha schools. She's amazing. And there's, you know, various other schools like this. (28:24 - 28:38) I particularly enjoy her work because it's two hour learning. It's not eight hours, seven hour days, and it's engaging and it's actually, and it's working with AI tutors, if I'm remembering correctly. And so these are kids that want to be doing this type of schooling. (28:39 - 28:53) These are kids, they're leaving high school with not only a diploma, but like a documentary with, you know, 50 million views or something. So they're, they're doing what they love and they're having fun, which is actually what learning really is. And they're moving their bodies and they're, and they're not even necessarily on their phones or social media. (28:54 - 29:21) Yes, it's tech oriented because of, again, if I'm understanding correctly, the AI tutor part, but it's, it's not, it's very different than someone just doom scrolling or hope scrolling or whatever you want to call it. They're engaged in what they want to be learning about and bringing into the world. And I think that's, wherever we can find that for our kids, whether it's in public school, private school, charter school, alpha school, homeschool, what is their thing and what can they bring? If it's authentic, it's going to work out. (29:22 - 30:00) We know that. Yeah, that's, that's kind of where I'm at. Like the most valuable things I learned in my life was simply a byproduct of pursuing my interests or just having the creative freedom to be left alone and to do what I want to do, you know? But this, the problem for me is that from such an early age, like when we create, you know, so many rules and limits and et cetera, et cetera, like within the trial, there's like this antagonistic mechanism with like, oh, is it wrong to pursue my interests? Is it wrong to spend too much time just figuring something out, you know, or going after my desires or like, but this can happen in so many subtle ways that aren't even directly related to vocational aspects. (30:00 - 30:16) Like, you know, when we have strict limits on TV time or food or whatever it might be, I'm not saying that we should, it should be absolutely nothing, but it's interesting how quickly kids then have that inner tyrant that's like, oh, you need to, you need to slow down. You need to stop. You can't have too much freedom. (30:16 - 30:20) You can't have too much space. It starts really early. It's like, no, don't go over there. (30:20 - 30:27) Be careful. Slow down. No, no, it's, it's really, really early and there is that messaging. (30:27 - 30:51) And so how can we, this is where understanding the developmental stage your kid is at is so crucial. Expect your toddler to just run off in that direction or fall on the floor and say, no, expect your teenager to question you and be like, why, why do I have to go to school? Why, why anything? Why everything? I mean, that was kind of how I was. No one ever answered my questions. (30:51 - 31:12) So it's like, I'm committed to helping people find these answers in their families because And in my view, that desire to question is ultimately what's going to lead the individual to success. You know, in questioning the status quo, in questioning what everyone's telling them is the correct or the right way. Like, if you look at all the most successful entrepreneurs, it's because they dared to question. (31:12 - 31:21) They dared to risk. Yeah. And they were ridiculed often for a while before everyone, you know, caught on, right? It's like, that's how it works sometimes. (31:21 - 31:33) And we're all, the studies about our genius, right? We're born genius. And then by whatever age, it's like only 20% left are genius. And it's not because, it's because it was educated out of us usually. (31:34 - 31:43) And not necessarily in school, maybe at home, maybe just, you know, it could be any circumstance, but we do, we hear no enough. We hear you're wrong enough. We hear you're not, you're not okay as you are enough. (31:43 - 32:01) And then no wonder people think they need to change or aren't good enough. Right? And so how do we, it's really like the bad behavior in quotes that we see of children is this mirror of the adult in my opinions, quote, bad behavior. And what I mean by that is like, if you're not thinking ahead, you're not going to do it perfectly. (32:02 - 32:24) I'm just saying like, if we're not thinking ahead, if we're not proactive, if we're not front loading, if we're not prepared for what's about to come or what we're even in right now, we're going to see things that we're going to be surprised, we're going to be frustrated. And so get ahead of it and play with that. Right? Because this is a dance, like I said before, all your kid wants is to have this awesome life and relationship with you. (32:24 - 32:46) And if we take that for granted and we don't get that, they're going to eventually be like, nevermind, you don't get it. Yeah. And what damages the relationship more than anything else in my opinion is over time we accrue in the child's mind that dad or mom is the gatekeeper of my interests, not a supporter of my interests. (32:47 - 32:53) So this is someone who limits my freedom. This was someone who limits my creative potential. And so that just erodes this relationship over time. (32:53 - 33:12) Like, why would I want to let dad in? Why would I want mom to know about this, et cetera, et cetera. And then just develops this environment of secrecy and hiding things and needing to, yeah. And even just this desire like, oh, I'm going to go to the farthest college to get away from my parents. (33:12 - 33:24) And then I'm going to go do my own thing. You know, there isn't that, again, connection in the way that I think maybe a child would want to connect with their parents and have that connection. Yeah. (33:25 - 33:36) For me, as much as possible, I want to be someone who augments my child's interests. And I want them to think as they grow, dad can help me with this. Dad's a fan, right? Yes. (33:37 - 33:38) Yes. Yeah. He gets me. (33:38 - 33:43) He sees me. You don't have to know the answers even. It's that he's curious with me. (33:43 - 33:53) He sees me, right? And yeah, he'll help me figure it out. I mean, what a great role for dad. It's like, it's just so original and beautiful and what dads are made for. (33:54 - 34:11) And, you know, one just kind of more silly or potentially common example these days is I have a lot of girls that are really into makeup and skincare and all this stuff, right? And so often parents want to reject that. Like, they shouldn't be like that. And it's superficial and it's expensive and all this stuff. (34:11 - 34:16) I'm like, this is the doorway. Again, just like they're complaining. Just like whatever else is coming up. (34:16 - 34:23) Go into it with them. It can become a conversation about non-toxic skincare. It can become a conversation about self-care. (34:24 - 34:31) You can do the process with them. You can go shopping with them. Like, there's so many spaces to connect with that interest alone. (34:31 - 34:38) No matter what you think about it, get out of your own way. Get out of the way of that connection. Curiosity has to be at the foundation. (34:38 - 35:09) Like, if your child's bringing something to you, instead of telling them, asking to get more information to be curious about like, oh, why are you into this skincare? Why do you feel like you want to explore these different colors and wear this different makeup? It just feels like it could go deeper there. And I think this issue we're dealing with is just a general psychological issue that we see beyond just childhood. It's the projection of you need to be, you need to think, you need to act the way I think and act. (35:10 - 35:24) We see that in the political realm. We see that obviously with parents. And then what's the underlining element of that? It's very often people who can't sit with maybe their own fear or their own vulnerability or their own un-okayness or not knowing. (35:25 - 35:29) And it's like, no, I must. I must be certain. I must tell them what to do and how to act. (35:29 - 35:45) Well, that's exactly what I was thinking. How much of the rejection of your child's interest is just a projection of your own fear and your own lack of self-trust and self-agency. And so it's like, if you don't trust yourself to go there with anything, how can you give them that opportunity? Right. (35:45 - 36:05) Even something so seemingly little as skincare can become this big thing because of all of that that you just said. Yeah. Or also to me, if you're a parent and you're not in touch with your emotions and you feel sad or to be vulnerable to cry, then when your child expresses it, you go, no, no, no, no. (36:05 - 36:08) You don't need to be okay. Be happy. Here's a tissue. (36:08 - 36:16) Wipe your tears away. You know what I mean? As opposed to just being there and go, because the parent knows, oh, I internally, I feel sad sometimes. I know this experience. (36:17 - 36:21) I don't need to change anything. I don't need to chew it away. I don't need to judge them. (36:21 - 36:37) I just need to be there and present and let them cry in my arms if need to be without even having to offer a solution. I think about that even just as a man in partnership and the lessons that I've learned over the years is I want to go into fix it mode. I want to go into tell you what to do mode. (36:37 - 36:41) And then there's times where it's like I just have to tell myself, shut the fuck up. You're awesome. Shut the fuck up. (36:41 - 36:42) You're awesome. Shut the fuck up. You're awesome. (36:43 - 36:58) And I don't do anything. And in my mind, I feel like I'm confused as what to do, you know, and then the next day or later that night, like, you know, like a former girlfriend or my wife will be like, thank you so much for just being with me. Meanwhile, like what's going on in my head is like, I want to tell you what the fuck to do. (36:58 - 37:03) I want to give you the solution. I want to give you the answer. You know what I mean? It's exactly that. (37:03 - 37:12) It's exactly that. And when we can be present with someone, they are invited energetically even to be present. And that is what's calming. (37:12 - 37:18) It's not when someone says, calm down. It's not when someone says, don't be upset or here's the answer. No, no, no. (37:19 - 37:30) They're like there's no bigger trigger for me than when someone tells me to fucking relax or to calm down. It's the worst. You know, like it's like it's like it's pretty much you're saying you can't have the fucking experience that you're having. (37:30 - 37:36) Well, you can't. It's not OK. Whatever experience you're having to me, like gets me. (37:37 - 37:42) It gets me, too. And this is, you know, just relax, bro. Just chill, chill, bro. (37:42 - 37:55) This is what bugs teens so much, right? They come to their parents or, you know, their adult or whoever it is. And they're like bringing all this energy. And the adults like, stop, don't be in your experience or like, and I can't handle it. (37:55 - 38:02) So not only does it say you shouldn't be having it, it's also saying I can't handle this. I can't hold this. And they're not going to keep bringing stuff to you. (38:02 - 38:16) And that's all parents want. Actually, really deeply is to have that sort of dynamic and all the stuff you guys are talking about. This is where the work is, because if you can't just be present in that moment and be with it. (38:17 - 38:32) That's literally all that it is. I mean, the conversations I get to have with teens every day, it's about boys and parties and drugs and homework and all the things. And if it's not an emergency and, you know, when it's freaking emergency, we know it's usually not an emergency. (38:32 - 38:44) And actually, by just leaning into whatever they're telling you about, we end up in conversations where they're wanting to know how to stay safe. They're wanting to be empowered. They're wanting to have my wisdom and insight. (38:44 - 38:49) But I'm not pushing that. And I'm not leading with that. I want to understand them. (38:49 - 39:02) And when they feel understood, then they want to understand things more, themselves more, the world more, other people, other perspectives. But if we lead with that and we push that, they're going to reject it. Because in the teen years, there's something called counter-will that's happening. (39:02 - 39:10) And any time there's an agenda, teenagers are like, no. And I love this about teenagers. I think it's a safety mechanism. (39:10 - 39:28) I think it helps them question, stay safe in the world. And if you're a parent raising a teen, you want to have a good enough relationship and rapport where you have that influence. And you can like lock eyes and be like, you know, when it's actually an emergency or when they really do need to just believe you on something, right? You want to have that too. (39:29 - 39:34) And there's a way to create that. It's totally possible. I have that with the kids I work with. (39:34 - 39:39) They know that we don't lie. We don't hide things. It's all on the table. (39:40 - 39:53) It's all okay. How do you deal with, and maybe this shifts as a person gets older into their 20s, like you're not getting what you want from your parents. And like, they're not going to change their parents. (39:53 - 40:08) You know what I mean? Like I have to bring it back to a personal example. Like I have this thing where I go, listen, you don't need to tell your parents everything because like my parents are old school Greeks. They have a certain level of, well, my dad passed away last year, but they have a certain level of understanding. (40:09 - 40:18) And so if I bring maybe a, say a certain problem to them, or I'm a little bit more vulnerable, they're not going to, they're not probably not going to sit there with me. Like my mom's going to be like, you're okay. You're okay. (40:18 - 40:27) No, no, no, no, no, you know? And it's like, okay. At some point I go, listen, mom, you provide these things for me. And I'm so grateful. (40:27 - 40:31) And I love that. I'm not maybe saying that to her. I'm just saying like, cool. (40:31 - 40:49) But like other things, I'm just, if my mom asks how I'm doing and I just happen to be in like a really rough day, like it doesn't always serve me to go to vomit all my stuff out to my mom because she doesn't know how to hold it. She doesn't know how to handle it. And so maybe I have other people that I bring that stuff to. (40:49 - 40:55) So feel free to share your thoughts on that. I mean, yeah, same. It's what's coming up for me. (40:55 - 41:06) I'm thinking of many personal examples. And I imagine when people listen, they will too. What I, what the best, best case scenario is we are more mature than our parents. (41:06 - 41:14) That's best case scenario for the world. And same with the next generation. And like their, you know, floors are ceiling or whatever. (41:14 - 41:28) So that's best case scenario. And just like with everything, because there's like all of the sides to it or, you know, lots of perspectives and realities. There's also the sad side, the shadow side, the tricky part, which is, damn it. (41:28 - 41:34) I can't tell them certain things. Yeah. Like we're never going to be in that place in this department together. (41:34 - 41:47) And I, and accepting that is not always easy. And it actually, I think it just requires another level of growing up because we do come into this world thinking, wow, my parents are gods and they know everything. They hold the keys to everything and et cetera. (41:48 - 42:02) I mean, our survival is dependent on them. It's this whole thing that when we grow up, we realize there's people. And they, yeah, they did their best and maybe I needed more and I'm going to give it to myself and I, and I can respect where they're at and where they're probably never going to be. (42:02 - 42:15) And I'm going to, you know, and so it, then we become right. The answer and the adult. And then we hope that in some way, you know, that our children have that same experience, but also maybe it can be better than that. (42:15 - 42:23) Maybe we can have both. I'm holding space for that. Maybe we can have that sort of deep connection and have our kids be more mature than us. (42:23 - 42:25) Yeah. Me too. Yeah. (42:25 - 42:27) I'm holding it too. You know, it's. Yeah. (42:27 - 42:54) I think what's really important in that is like the parents like deeply understand the individuation process and to foster the environments and the circumstances for that to take place in a real way while not having to be from a motivation of rebellion or having to be from a motivation of fuck you, dad, fuck you, mom. It can be mom and dad are holding me and kind of letting me go, letting the ropes go, showing me the way. Exactly. (42:55 - 43:08) Yeah. It doesn't have to be when it gets that place where it's so rebellious or a few fingers in the air, like never going to talk to you again. It's like, wow, what did we miss? Was there not enough space? Because now this kid is like, I have to take all the space. (43:08 - 43:33) So, this is going back to that, prepare yourself, know what to expect, understand child development, true childhood development and what is about to happen and what you're stepping into so that you can really guide that. It's not very respectful or honorable to the child to think that they have to figure it all out. I mean, yes, there's some great parts about figuring stuff out. (43:33 - 43:40) I figured out a lot of my own. It creates a lot of independence and autonomy. And there's a balance. (43:40 - 44:02) There's a middle road. I definitely had to figure things out on my own because especially there's the language barrier, you know, like immigrant parents, like there's benefits, I think. And there's just like, even now, like my parents don't, they don't really know me or get me and all the things that I've done in my life and my experiences because there's just a limit to what they can understand. (44:03 - 44:15) You know, so, and I have had to, I had to come to a place of acceptance of that over the years. All right, Brian, it's a podcast, not your asthma therapy session, dude, come on. Listen, bro, people learn by hearing personal stories. (44:16 - 44:38) It's actually so similar to my story. I mean, it's what you're, I'm experiencing this with my parents and I've in the last, you know, maybe 10 years really realized, oh gosh, they actually don't know me at all. And they don't actually ask about things in the way that I wish they would, because I am such a deep thinker and deep feeler and love to know about other people and their experiences. (44:38 - 44:59) Also, I know that when you know about someone else, you understand them and why they are the way they are. And also, isn't that what we would think we would want our parents is to, for me, why have a child if you don't actually really want to know them? But that's my perspective, right? And not everybody has kids in that way and with that light, or maybe they do and it just looks a little different, but I totally get it. I totally resonate with you. (45:00 - 45:17) It's very interesting to see just, yeah, the patterns, the parenting patterns. Yeah. And it's like if you're at some point, and again, this probably goes beyond your teen years, you get into your 20s, like it's like that definition of insanity, you know, keep doing the same thing over again, expecting different results. (45:17 - 45:35) Like if you're behaving and acting in a certain way towards your parents and like there's no shift or change, like it's on you. It's on the person that I think has, let's say, a higher level of consciousness or maturity to adjust and to change. You can't expect someone maybe one or two rungs below you on the ladder in a certain area to be the one that just like automatically comes up. (45:36 - 45:43) And so, you know, I think that brings more peace in your life when you go, listen, like this is what it is. This is reality. I don't need to keep pushing. (45:44 - 45:49) I don't need to keep trying to stick like a round peg in a square hole. You know, it's just going to cause frustration. Yeah. (45:49 - 46:18) Right, right. Like so many, I guess, boys and men, you know, it seems as though if they didn't get that proper attunement and their parents or their dads in particular weren't curious, like a lot of their motivation unconsciously is like still trying to prove their worth to their dad or to, you know, get their dad to be curious or to make him proud, et cetera. How do you ultimately like resolve that? Like how do you come off that kind of hamster wheel? Oh, yeah. (46:20 - 46:34) Well, I want to just say that our society talks a lot about how important moms are. And I'm really, really glad about that because they are incredibly important, obviously. And I also think that there's space for us to really honor how important dads are. (46:34 - 46:47) And so I'm glad you're bringing this up. I mean, if we even just look at who's in jail, right, they either had no dad or not a great relationship with their dad. And so the role of any parent, every parent is so critical. (46:48 - 47:13) Girls, too, right? They just want to be seen by their dads. We all just like want to be seen as good enough. And so is your question, how would one or how do I work with teens around that or how might one kind of navigate that? Yeah, I'm curious when someone like kind of wakes up to the reality that, holy crap, my entire motivation is just trying to prove my worth to my dad. (47:13 - 47:46) You know, like when you have that realization, like how does one begin to kind of reconcile that and kind of reclaim agency instead of having these like unconscious motivations, which, you know, obviously aren't coming from the most authentic place? You think that happens, though, in the teen years or would that happen more afterwards? No, I'm saying afterwards, but the foundations are set in that period, right? Yeah. Well, and yeah, and maybe these are great conversations, conversations actually I have with teenagers who have some daddy issues, so to speak. We do talk about this stuff with the teens that are mature enough, old enough, we get to go there. (47:46 - 48:14) And it's awesome because actually I believe that that awareness of it is one of the biggest parts of the journey. Even just being able to see that and know that is like huge. Then the rest is at least like, okay, now I accept it or I'm going to see a therapist or I'm going to reparent myself or I'm going to realize that my true dad is the universe or whatever works for you, you know? And then go and then start to question all your beliefs, all your choices. (48:15 - 48:40) Who am I dating? Or, you know, if you're a girl and, you know, are having trouble dating men or whatever, right? And this does come up and the teen years do extend into the 20s because of the brain stuff. And so I do have girls that I work with that are struggling with dating and who they're attracting and who they're attracted to. And then I also have boys that want more time with their dads and who want their dads, like you said earlier, to be part of the thing they're into. (48:40 - 49:00) And so I fortunately get to work with the whole family and inviting that and welcoming that and talking about these concepts and maybe stepping into some of that. If someone's already out of the house and yeah, then it's, I really do think that acknowledgement of it is such an important big piece. And the rest is really like, I'm going to try this. (49:00 - 49:23) I'm going to question this. And I'm going to get some support with someone like a friend or a therapist, somebody that can talk about this. Because I think people, no matter what we're talking about here, but any of those big epiphanies, realizations, or, you know, we pop our own bubble somehow or something happens, we really need sometimes some other people around us to hold that because it's not easy waking up. (49:24 - 49:38) Yeah, yeah, totally. Is sex as taboo today, a topic between teens and their parents as it was, I guess, 15 years ago, you know? Yeah, right. Yeah. (49:38 - 50:06) I don't remember talking about it with my parents. It depends on the family. But given how in our face everything is these days, it's really, if you're not talking about it, if you're a parent not talking about it, I'm not sure why you're not taking all the opportunities because it's just everywhere, visually, auditorially, you know, all the ways, right? And so that conversation can actually start way before the teen years. (50:06 - 50:13) And it doesn't have to be cheesy. It doesn't have to be uncomfortable. It's really on us as the adults. (50:13 - 50:29) It's not uncomfortable with the teens that I talk to when they're talking about, you know, whatever happened. It's really natural. And I really think that that's because of the dynamic that has been created and the foundation that we have created together. (50:29 - 50:51) And also, there's something different about talking to a parent about it, especially if the parent's uncomfy. A lot of teens just deeply care about how their parents see them, obviously, and don't want to disappoint their parents. So sometimes teens will want to talk to their parents about things, but they don't know that their parent's going to be a good receiver. (50:51 - 51:12) And so this is where it's really important for parents to be really upfront about that, model that, offer that, initiate that, create that. Because I know, I don't know any teens that don't want a relationship or some guidance. They just don't want lectures and like, you know, all that because it doesn't really work. (51:12 - 51:33) It's not fun. Well, like, so what have you noticed? Obviously, you mentioned earlier that like, you know, there's this ubiquitous nature of sexuality and even ease of access of pornography. Like, how is that impacting teenagers? You know, because it's like, you know, I was a teen in the early, early mid-90s, you know, like the internet wasn't what it is today. (51:33 - 51:56) So it's like, it's hard to even fathom like what children with developing brains, you know, have access to and how that impacts their sense of self, how that impacts their physiology, how that impacts their relationship to others and the people they go to school with and boys and girls and girls and boys. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like, it's kind of mind-blowing and like, I'm not really around it. So I don't really know the impact, but you are. (51:58 - 52:16) Yeah. So it's so interesting because when I pan out, I have lots of, you know, there's of course like personal experiences and conversations I've had with people and overarching themes. And when I pan out, it's this realization that, well, first of all, this stuff is traumatic when you see too young, too fast, all that. (52:16 - 52:36) I mean, it shouldn't, that's just like, if we can protect children from this stuff, we should be because childhood is brief and it should be full of innocence. Yeah, losing innocence so quickly these days. So quickly, so quickly and that doesn't have to be the case, right? And we got to talk about the stuff ahead and we got to prepare for, we got to protect. (52:36 - 52:49) And it's not about shielding from the truth. This is actually about preserving a very sacred time in life that's foundational for the rest of life. And then we go into the teen years and that is all natural. (52:49 - 52:57) Of course, hormones are changing, all that stuff. We want people to want to be engaged with each other. This is like healthy, if done safely and all that stuff. (52:57 - 53:21) So, but what I see, what I'm trying to get to is that this reality with social media and pornography and all that, the more male perspective is like, if you see that and you have that experience and you have that release, that's the kind of goal in a sense. Not that that's the only goal, but I'm speaking kind of biologically here. And for the girls, it's more about the likes, the follows, the attention. (53:22 - 53:39) And so, these are things that boys and girls used to do more with each other as they're getting older in age-appropriate, sensual ways. And now it's almost not happening because it's happening online. Those needs are getting met, if that makes sense, without each other. (53:39 - 53:49) And that's what's so sad for me. We know that, gosh, what is the recent statistic? It's like 75% of males 18 to 25 have never asked out a female in real life. Something like that. (53:49 - 53:55) It might be a little different, but it's high. Yeah. And so- You're getting the fix. (53:56 - 54:06) You know, you're getting that fix. So, you think like, I guess, and so very, very generally, like less sex is happening amongst all the teens these days. That's my understanding. (54:06 - 54:10) That's my understanding. And it doesn't mean that- It makes sense. Yeah. (54:10 - 54:26) I mean, of course, there's gonna be pockets where there's more and there's plenty, there's still connection. Thank goodness, human beings, our spirit and soul cannot be stifled and that cannot be squashed. However, it is going through an interesting experience, I think, and recalibrating a little bit. (54:26 - 54:40) And all that this stuff can do is bring us, hopefully, back to what's really true and what's really real and that we do need each other and that human connection, there's like nothing that can replace it. We have all these great tools and I love them personally. I'm not against them. (54:40 - 54:50) They are supplemental. They are not replacements. Unless, you know, they need to be in for some reason that, you know, help someone create some skills or something. (54:50 - 54:55) But yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. And I know that they want to, they actually want to be connected to each other. (54:55 - 55:04) Girls want to be asked out to prom. And I hope that, you know, boys still want to hang out with girls too. I've talked to more girls than boys just because I'm a female, but. (55:05 - 55:19) And I do think that it's important for the boys to have some positive male role models in their life beyond their dads. And also, like, throw basketball around while you're talking. Like the sitting and talking in this way is harder for young boys, and it should be. (55:19 - 55:28) They're wired very differently. And to expect them to, you know, sit and have a coaching call. Some boys it works great with, but plenty of them do that all day at school. (55:28 - 55:39) They're sitting all day and they're being told. They're like bad and wrong for not behaving like girls who are often more able to sit all day. And so, I mean, we're going to lots of different directions now of just what's happening with this generation. (55:41 - 55:53) Yeah. No, it's, I mean, it is wild to see. I mean, I just, I just remember even over the years reading articles on like how like there's major, like issues in Japan of like people aren't getting into relationships. (55:53 - 55:59) They aren't getting married. You know, people are getting that, that again, that fix through online. They're getting that extreme forms of pleasure. (55:59 - 56:28) So it's like the delayed gratification isn't, you know, they don't want that when they can get instant gratification and like flood their body with these sensations and these chemicals, you know, like, I mean, again, this was like maybe over a decade ago. I remember reading an article on pornography that like you have these like young kids. We're talking about like 10, 11, seeing the most extreme forms of pornography that like their first girlfriend, let's say in their early teens that they can't even get aroused because it's like you've seen all this stuff. (56:28 - 57:02) So just like I remember, I mean, to be honest, I just remember even being like an early teen and like, you know, kissing my girlfriend and I'm like, whoa, this is amazing. You know, whereas like they're not, they're not having that kind of that rite of passage because they have access to this extreme forms of like, of the pleasure and the dopamine that they're getting from like the ease of access on the internet. But is there, I mean, obviously there would be, but like there's something in the entire dynamic and the relationship between the parent and the teen, which leads to an increase of want and this desire to pursue to do stuff online, et cetera, et cetera. (57:02 - 57:25) Like to some extent that's filling a void, I think. Oh, you mean like the teenager might be filling the void that from within the home. Well, I mean, if a teenager is compulsively seeking out porn or seeking out to boo stuff, like there's got to be an underlying reason for that beyond, oh, everyone that has access to the internet is just going to scroll across this kind of stuff. (57:25 - 57:30) You know, I have something to say on this, but I want, I want you to say you. No, go ahead. I want to, I'm curious. (57:30 - 57:57) No, I just see, like, I don't, I, I hear what you're saying, but I feel like let's say for us, for instance, we're older, we've done certain levels of personal development work and consciously are way mature. And I guarantee you, we probably don't put our phones down in certain ways, you know, and we, we quote unquote know better, you know? And so it's like, I feel like a parent can raise their child as well as possible, but this shit's everywhere and it's playing on you in such a primitive way that. I'm on my phone a lot, but I'm not fucking looking. (57:57 - 58:01) I'm not seeing porn. I'm not talking about porn. I'm not talking about porn. (58:01 - 58:09) I'm just using an example of just like something that gives us a feeling that we still, we know better. It still impacts us. So these are young kids. (58:09 - 58:16) We don't have the developed brains. Like if they, if they just see something like their friend could be like, hey man, come check this out. Okay. (58:16 - 58:35) You know, they're just want to fit in and get along and then they see it and it's like, whoa, what the fuck does that mean? Depending on the developmental attunement, it's going to be a different response on the team that sees something, right? And then they go, oh, I can go intentionally seek this out and seek this out, seek this out. As opposed to I'm 12, 13 years old. Hey, mom and dad, I saw this thing. (58:35 - 58:44) What do you think about this? And having a different experience and a different evolution and relationship with that. I hear you there. I just don't know if it says black and white, you know, personally, but. (58:45 - 58:54) Thank you, Paul. Yeah. Well, I mean, the way that addictions evolve is obviously very much so connected to how someone was raised, I think. (58:56 - 59:24) It, I mean, our, no doubt how we're nurtured is essential and our nature matters too. And what you're both saying makes sense to me because it's like, imagine that being, imagine the difference in coming from a home where you have all the protections on your phone, but yeah, your friend shows you something. But if you tell your dad or your mom, you might get hurt or in trouble or something bad might happen. (59:24 - 59:42) Even though you didn't seek it out, your friend, you know, there's that experience that could happen. And then there's also an experience where maybe your parents have already told you about what's online, what you might see, how to handle it, that you can always come to them and tell them no matter what you've seen and they're going to listen to you. Those are very different experiences. (59:42 - 1:00:00) And I don't know if that's, if that kind of touches on what both of you were saying. Because yeah, I mean, it's less desirable too. If someone's like you, we know that the taboo and the no, you can never ask that question or watch that thing or that becomes very exciting. (1:00:01 - 1:00:27) So how about we just have honest conversations with each other, especially if you're raising kids about, Hey, in the world of technology, here's what's true for all of us. And here's what's different about it when your brain is 12, 14, 16, 10. Yeah, I just think, and this is a bigger conversation and something that I've been contemplating is that like, it's like we put every single thing on the parent. (1:00:28 - 1:00:49) Like if your kid doesn't turn out perfectly, it's because you were a shitty parent, not realizing that like this soul has its own journey to go through. Like you literally could have been like read all the books and done everything that you said to do and been open and be attuned to your child. And there may be shit that fucking happens. (1:00:49 - 1:01:05) You know what I mean? It's like, so that's where I'm kind of coming from as well. That's when you as the parents have the self-awareness to be like, I know I genuinely did the best I can. I know I genuinely did my best to cultivate a healthy relationship, have healthy agency, and I don't need to guilt and shame myself because something happened. (1:01:06 - 1:01:11) Totally. I'm not talking about the parent now. I'm talking about like the impact that something could have on a child, which goes back to my initial statement. (1:01:12 - 1:01:33) Is that like you can do the right things and yet your child, because it's its own soul, its own being, is going to have the experiences that it's going to have. Yeah. I was thinking something similar the other day, sort of shower thoughts about how the reality that it's like both with regard to you, there being your children. (1:01:33 - 1:01:38) It's this concept of these are my children. And that is true. They are legally yours. (1:01:38 - 1:01:50) You're responsible for them. They are minors, all that. And then there's this, are they ever anyone's, right? Because can we ever belong to someone else, right? It's like there's the different ways of looking at things. (1:01:50 - 1:01:58) There's the mass-centric physical kind of earthly realm. There's the energy sort of one. And there's like the super spiritual perspective. (1:01:58 - 1:02:02) And it's like, no, we never really belong to anyone. I am on my own journey. I am my own soul. (1:02:02 - 1:02:25) And then there's also the, hey, I'm your parent and I'm taking care of you. For X amount of years. And so it's when we can know that all of those ways of looking at something, someone, a dynamic and experience exists, it can bring some dynamism and some, maybe some peace or some grace or some clarity because they're all true. (1:02:26 - 1:02:39) It's like what Joel said before, the peace, that's from the parent's side of things. I think it could provide a little bit of peace because you can easily fall into, but I checked all the boxes, I did all the things. And yet, you know, my child's dealing with chronic anxiety or eating disorders or whatever. (1:02:40 - 1:02:55) And it's like, man, like there's, I mean, again, I say this as someone on the outside, I'm not a parent, you know, maybe one day. And so it's more just observation. And it's never about shielding your child 100% from adversity, from challenges, from their own personal rites of passage. (1:02:55 - 1:03:14) Like we know that that's absolutely essential, you know, at the same time. And, you know, we all have our unique challenges, I think, based on our, you know, the unique reason that our soul is here. I think that's one of the- when we grow up, we aren't blaming our parents or our circumstances. (1:03:15 - 1:03:36) I even think about it for- that's why my origin story sometimes is hard to describe because there's things that are- that were frustrating for me. And I know that I was needing more information, more connection and all these things. And I also wonder, like, did my parents try to do that in the way they knew how? Did they try to keep me away from that bad relationship? But I don't remember. (1:03:36 - 1:03:46) I mean, what's their perspective? I would- I have asked them. I would love more information. It's still the same sort of pattern, but I have to- I think about it from their perspective too. (1:03:46 - 1:03:59) It's not like, oh, it's all their fault because also they probably feel like they really tried to, you know, get me to where they wanted me to be and keep me safe. I imagine they really did. And their version of it is so different. (1:03:59 - 1:04:09) There's also the deep subjectivity of memory. You know, like, are our memories exactly how things were? You know, are they based in reality? I mean, that's a whole nother conversation. No, no, no. (1:04:09 - 1:04:14) Hell no. No, no, no. People can't agree on stuff five minutes after the event happened. (1:04:14 - 1:04:35) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, how are you going to agree on something ten, fifteen, ten minutes after, like? It's, like, essential for us all to question everything, especially ourselves. And not that we don't trust ourselves, but really just to go kind of Byron Katie style, right? Is that a hundred percent true? Do I know that that is completely true? And usually it's like, no. (1:04:35 - 1:04:43) Yeah. And then what's the fine line between, like, that and, like, gaslighting yourself, you know? Like, I have this felt experience, but I don't trust mom. I don't trust dad. (1:04:43 - 1:04:49) You know, I feel like there's rupture there, you know? And then exploring that. Exactly. Exactly. (1:04:49 - 1:04:53) Welcome to being human. Yeah. Right? It's such a trip. (1:04:53 - 1:05:01) It's like a psychedelic journey, especially if you have a kid in front of you. Oh, my God. Like, that is just all, it's just everything. (1:05:01 - 1:05:08) It's a whole new level of it. I mean, not that other things can't provide, you know, the same sort of intensity. I really, truly believe there's lots of versions of this. (1:05:08 - 1:05:18) And it's such a mirror, mirror game if you have a child in front of you. Yeah, yeah. Do you, because earlier you said that you don't have children, you don't have teens. (1:05:18 - 1:05:28) Just to be clear, do you ever get any pushback? Because I know it happens often. Like, oh, why should I listen to you? You don't have any kids, you know? Which I think on some levels there can be some truth to this. Yeah. (1:05:28 - 1:05:39) But at the same time, like, you know, like observation is observation. Like having a certain level of knowledge and being able to have a bird's eye view can provide value. So I'm curious your relationship to that, that you've gotten, that you've got from people. (1:05:40 - 1:05:55) Yeah, well, I grew up, I mean, I got that message of like, you're going to be the best mom a lot when I was a teenager. And my mom played the other balancing aspects of you don't have to have kids for me. Make it through your 20s. (1:05:55 - 1:06:06) And so I got like these very intense messages that I was just navigating as a very young person. And I've always loved children. I've worked with them since I was a child. (1:06:06 - 1:06:15) I mean, I started mentoring teenagers when I was 18 and their parents. So I was definitely not a parent then either. And so it's very interesting because it's been a calling for a long time. (1:06:15 - 1:06:41) I've worked in just, let's see, with families individually in that way, summer camps, hospitals, jails, I mean, all kinds of places. And what I will say is just as a side note, if raising a child meant you became enlightened or wise, we would have a lot more wise people in the world. Having a child doesn't mean you automatically know everything about children. (1:06:41 - 1:07:02) You do have a very, very specific and important and irreplaceable connection with your kid, even if it's not perfect, which none of them are. And so there's something special there. For me, I personally can tap into other, this might be a little too woo-woo for some people, but other maybe lifetimes or parts of me that did have that experience. (1:07:02 - 1:07:25) In this lifetime, it's very important for me, and there's a sacred contract that I made that I would not do that in this lifetime. And the way that I was going to show up was for parents and their kids, because there's another sacred role of auntie, especially in the Hawaiian culture and many other cultures where everybody needs someone else. And there is a different perspective that can be brought in, and it's not less, it's not more, it's different. (1:07:25 - 1:07:51) And so I'm able to see the parent as a complete whole person and their child as a complete whole person and where they can overlap and where there's gaps and where there's strengths. And I don't get pushed back partly because I have a lot of success with the families that I work with, and I do have these insights that really often surprise them and are incredibly helpful. I would not blame anyone, though, for not wanting to work with someone that didn't have kids. (1:07:51 - 1:07:57) I can understand that perspective. Hey, you have no idea what it's like to X, Y, Z. And that's true. In this lifetime, I do not. (1:07:58 - 1:08:08) When I was a nanny, I remember there was one day I worked with both the girls, in the day and the night, so for like 30 hours. These were amazing angel children. Easy. (1:08:08 - 1:08:14) So lovely. I was all wiped, you guys. I don't know how parents do this, especially in 2025. (1:08:14 - 1:08:21) It is unbelievable what is on their shoulders. And same for their kids. So much is on their shoulders, too. (1:08:21 - 1:08:42) And it is just unbelievable to me. And I'm amazed every day. And if I can support easing that or holding it with to create some sort of togetherness, that's the best thing I can do with my energy and insight from my perspective. (1:08:43 - 1:08:51) Yeah, no, thank you so much for sharing that. Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, yeah, it's a different experience if you're a parent on the planet. (1:08:52 - 1:08:56) It just is. Just like when we say yes to something, we're going to say no to something else. Buying a house, not buying a house. (1:08:57 - 1:09:03) Whatever partner we marry, we choose that direction. And it does look different than the other one. Yeah, yeah. (1:09:03 - 1:09:15) But I mean, personal experience is one thing. But at the same time, you can have the education, the knowledge, and personal experience in another way, obviously not having kids, and provide a lot of insights. It's so fun. (1:09:16 - 1:09:36) Yeah, for me, as I've helped people raise, I don't even know how many teens at this point. So I have this very broad, this array of different kinds of teens. And so I've got these patterns, like you said, that I've seen that are throughout all the teens that I've been able to help parents raise, for lack of a better word. (1:09:36 - 1:09:44) And then also these really unique, unique experiences where I'm still part of their lives. And they're now 28 and have a kid of their own. It's amazing. (1:09:44 - 1:10:22) Can I ask you this? Like, what would, I mean, I haven't been to your website or know, like, the testimonials. But if I were to line up, like, 50 of the people you worked with, parents and children, and said, Hey, what do you think of Kirsten? Like, what would they say? Like, well, like, what are your favorite things about her? Or what, how does she support you? And how does she change you? I don't want to say, how did she change you? But how does she help facilitate more growth? Yeah, I have a whole section of my website, one of my websites, parentingwave.com, that has, like, this wall of feedback. And a lot of it is your, it's weird to say it's, so I feel like I'm sort of propping myself up. (1:10:22 - 1:10:32) But what the feedback is, like, your magic. Like, after just connecting with you a few times, I now have the relationship with my daughter that I've always wanted. She calls me about everything. (1:10:32 - 1:10:39) She tells me everything, right? And it's beautiful. And there are versions of that. Like, I, you were the angel that I was waiting for. (1:10:39 - 1:10:50) Stuff like this, right? This is, and this is very special for me. Not because I'm like, oh, I'm so great. But because I know that every family can have that experience with their kids. (1:10:52 - 1:10:58) And I want that for them if they want it for them. I'm never trying to push anything on people. But if they want it, they're ready. (1:10:58 - 1:11:03) I am so on your team. Yeah. Amazing. (1:11:04 - 1:11:36) What are, what are some of the actionable things that I guess parents with toddlers can take now to kind of prepare themselves to, you know, have the best foundation for future things? I love that question because the teen years are like the second toddler, right? It's, it's like the second, you get the second chance. But if anyone listening isn't quite there yet and you, you are in kind of the first chance. Love, love this stage because it's this first round of individuation in a way, right? The tantrums, the no, the let me do it. (1:11:36 - 1:11:45) And let them do it. They want, or like they want to wash the dishes with you. Spend the hour instead of the 15 minutes if you can. (1:11:45 - 1:11:57) And, and do that with them because they are very soon not going to be wanting to do dishes with you or do dishes at all. They're not going to be tugging on your shirt and they're not going to be following you around. It's a very, very quick stage. (1:11:57 - 1:12:03) And it's a beautiful one. It's full on. I mean, I've, I nannied toddlers and I've spent a lot of time with them. (1:12:03 - 1:12:15) If it's all you're focusing on, it can be so much fun. If you're multitasking and having to do a million other things, it gets really, really hard. This doesn't mean you have to be a stay at home, work at home mom. (1:12:15 - 1:12:23) It just means when you are with your kid, be really with them, be all in. They want to show you the bug, the stick. They want to walk slow. (1:12:23 - 1:12:33) They want to sit down on the sidewalk and have a tantrum. Let them have that process because that's their curiosity. The tantrum is them learning how to feel big feelings. (1:12:33 - 1:12:38) Let them have that process. It's going to serve them later. Don't shut it down. (1:12:38 - 1:12:47) Hold space around it so they don't, you know, die in the street. But yeah, that's some of the advice I would give to anyone in that stage. Yeah. (1:12:47 - 1:12:53) It really is such a sacred time. I've got three daughters, six, four, and a couple months old. You know, you're basically a newborn. (1:12:55 - 1:13:11) And I just like, I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like when they don't want to follow me around, when they don't want my attention, when they don't want to tug at me, when they don't want to show me everything. You know, it's like, you kind of made me emotional hearing that because I kind of tessally presumed that that would be forever. And I kind of hope it is. (1:13:11 - 1:13:18) You know, it might be. Maybe I'll be able to cultivate a relationship where they always want, you know, dad's curiosity. I think that it's possible. (1:13:19 - 1:13:25) And the reason I say they won't be doing that is because it does change. Yeah, of course. And it is still there. (1:13:26 - 1:13:38) And so it's like the nuance, like we can actually move away from that black and white. And there is that space to create where they're going to come home and want to tell you about the thing that happened at school, or they'll want to show you their prom dress or whatever. Right. (1:13:38 - 1:13:50) That is totally possible. It just looks, it'll just look different. But I have no doubt that you will be able to create with your three daughters versions of that, especially as you're just in it now. (1:13:51 - 1:13:55) Yeah. You're now doing it all now. Hey bro, they love your hip hop album now. (1:13:55 - 1:14:06) But in 10 years, they're going to be like, I don't want to listen to that dad. There's this new person, whatever the current version of Travis Scott is or something. No, it's just all remakes of 90s music, which I love. (1:14:06 - 1:14:09) Oh, me too. I love the 90s. I'm an 80s guy. (1:14:09 - 1:14:11) Yeah, yeah. I was born. Yeah, I'm 40. (1:14:11 - 1:14:13) So, you know. Okay. I was born. (1:14:13 - 1:14:15) Yeah, I was born in 1980. So, yeah. Nice, nice. (1:14:16 - 1:14:20) Nice. I'm 34. Just to add to the mix. (1:14:21 - 1:14:24) Oh, you're young. Oh, great. Your girls. (1:14:24 - 1:14:28) Okay. They've got so much of you. Yeah, they've got so much of not that we get old and have no energy. (1:14:29 - 1:14:34) We can always be energetic. But I'm so blessed to work at home. Both me and my wife are home. (1:14:34 - 1:14:41) She's downstairs with them right now. And they have the most attention. And they know when I'm out of this office, out of this room, like they've got me as well. (1:14:41 - 1:14:47) You know, I try my best to kind of leave my work in this room. And I don't think they're ever going to go to school. You know, that's kind of where I'm at. (1:14:47 - 1:14:53) I mean, if they want to later and they choose that. Sure. But for me, it's like, I don't think school prepares you for life. (1:14:53 - 1:15:11) There's this misconception that school is kind of like mini life when it's really not that at all. Like things that happen in school would never happen in real life. Like being bullied on a bus, being teased for what you like, shit like that doesn't happen, you know? And so, yeah, I'm just trying to really raise them with as much freedom and sovereignty and agency as possible. (1:15:12 - 1:15:21) But with more attention, more care, more curiosity, like more hands-on as a result of giving them more freedom. Because there's more guidance. There's more conversations. (1:15:21 - 1:15:38) There's more interaction where it's like they need to build their own reason, build their own knowledge base. So asking the right questions, getting them to learn things and see for themselves why things work, why things don't work, why things are harmful, why things are beneficial. Like raising them this way, people think it's less work. (1:15:38 - 1:15:43) It's not. You know, it's more. But I love it because it's more interaction. (1:15:43 - 1:15:47) It's more connection. It's more relationship. More real. (1:15:47 - 1:16:01) You're not like navigating some stupid assignment or some horrible test about something that doesn't even matter and that's not even true. You're just in real life with them already. And so, it's naturally going to be more authentic, engaging, and real. (1:16:01 - 1:16:04) And that's what matters. Yeah. So much. (1:16:04 - 1:16:49) Yeah. It's wild to think like the things that I've learned in my life that have really impacted me, that have influenced the work that I do, most of it happened after I graduated from college. You know, which is wild to think because I go, okay, if my wife and I choose to have a child, like I said earlier, sending your child for eight hours a day for 13 years to go through this process and this is what you learn, where so much juice and so much imagination and so much cool things that exist in the world that may impact them in their day-to-day life, in their careers, they're not going to learn during that eight hours times however many 180, 200 days of school times 13. (1:16:50 - 1:16:56) I mean, some stuff, of course. Well, 15,000 hours. 15,000 hours between K and 12 inside the school. (1:16:56 - 1:17:01) You know what I mean? And it's like, man. We know it doesn't take that long to learn algebra. We know that. (1:17:02 - 1:17:08) And also, we know that what's going on in schools, depending on the school, is very questionable. And yeah. No, no, no. (1:17:08 - 1:17:10) You go, you go. I'll say something after. Okay. (1:17:10 - 1:17:37) And so really, what school often teaches, even for the kids that are type A and loving it, is how to handle contrived scenarios or unhealthy scenarios, and they're also not even encouraged to handle them in healthy ways. It's horrible. What really hit me, Joel, when you just gave that exact number, 15,000, how often do we hear that it takes 10,000 hours to master it? So I go, we got 15,000 hours of indoctrination. (1:17:37 - 1:17:50) So we're becoming masterful and being indoctrinated, which is no surprise when we see what we see in the world, where everyone just goes along to get along. Everyone just looks up to authority. Everyone just says, yes, politician. (1:17:50 - 1:17:53) Yes, government. Yes, teacher. I'll just do what you say. (1:17:53 - 1:18:05) So it's like we're getting trained to be masters in that level of being obedient to some degree. Now, again, I'm not saying all school and every hour is put towards that. There's a lot of amazing things that occur. (1:18:05 - 1:18:17) I have great memories. But I mean, as a whole, as a general thing, all those hours are going towards sitting in the same chair, hearing a bell go off, and now I'm going to move to the next school. Yeah, man. (1:18:17 - 1:19:01) And even before, even on top of that, I shared a clip from a Tim Ferriss podcast of Naval speaking on this recently, but the school is such an imposition on the family's life. Wake up this tired kid, force him or her out of bed, rush them to get dressed, rush them to get changed, rush them to feed them, rush them to school, rush them to pick them up. What if I had the freedom to sleep in and wake up and be free and do things on their own time and on their own term? What if those 15,000 hours were spent in their own genius, in the mystery, in the imagination, in the tinkering, in the playing, in the figuring things out? What's possible with that? That's where we're headed, I think. (1:19:01 - 1:19:28) Here in Maui, where I am, they're trying to push no exemptions on vaccines, for example. No matter what you think about that, this is just going to continue to push people into saying, never mind. Everything weird that happens or anything that's too restrictive or unhealthy, there's some pretty weird stuff that happens in schools, and unfortunately, we're at the bottom of the barrel right now in some ways. (1:19:28 - 1:20:00) The last few years, a lot of people left, a lot of great teachers left. No matter, again, what you think about that, it's just going to keep pushing us into this place where parents go, I got to find a better way, or I want to be with my kid, or I need my kid to be with someone I trust, or anything else that it's getting smaller, more communal, values-oriented instead of what's convenient. This is where anything that you try to squeeze a rock and what's going to come out type thing, you push someone into a corner and we're going to see some magic come from that. (1:20:00 - 1:20:14) I guess that's a better example than the rock. You make a really good point I haven't thought about really, which is during the 2020 kind of years, the best people did leave. The most autonomous, self-aware, courageous, compassionate people did leave. (1:20:15 - 1:20:37) The system got worse as a result of pushing all those teachers out that still had agency. This happened when I was a therapist in New Hampshire where I'm from, and then I moved to California, got married to my husband, and I remember thinking, maybe I'll transfer my license. California wanted me to go back to grad school and do everything again. (1:20:41 - 1:21:04) What's insane about that to me is that California has not enough counselors, not enough therapists, not enough help for their communities. Their attempt to protect people, I guess, in California or something, I don't know why there's a limit on how many licenses there can be. They really screwed themselves because I mean, yeah. (1:21:04 - 1:21:19) Anyway, so that happened there and we're just going to keep seeing that and it's incredible. The more squeezing, the more crunching, the more cornering, we're just going to see more magic come through and that's why it's deep. Yeah, the more creative that we're forced to be, you know, so. (1:21:19 - 1:21:27) And there's no squashing. California's fucked from a socio-political standpoint in a lot of ways. I live in Los Angeles County, so, you know. (1:21:28 - 1:21:34) Again, I don't have to deal with any of that stuff and if we do have a kid, we won't be dealing with any of that. But just to, again, to observe. Same. (1:21:34 - 1:22:11) No, I'm in Maui and, you know, we've had similar things happen over the last couple of years, unfortunately, in our counties and there's a similar governmental sort of situation and it's not necessarily like a side thing. This is just like, hello, things are not working and we've had these horrible things happen and we're seeing kids really, really pay for it. I mean, we know that we're not ranked very high anymore if we're going back to the school piece of it and it's partly because not only are like the systems and the programs not working, they like change them every two or three years and it's like, it's just a mess. (1:22:11 - 1:22:31) But again, how can anyone learn from someone that's not inspiring about something that they're not interested in? Like, let's get back to the reason why we're all born. We are all born to be who we are. We're born like whole and complete, also learning and growing, of course, but we have a gift to bring and our gift doesn't have to be like grand. (1:22:31 - 1:22:40) It might be great. It's really to be who we are. And we need to have people around us that see who we are and honor who we are and get that and realize that that's what matters. (1:22:40 - 1:22:46) Not the A on the test. Who cares? That is not important. It just isn't. (1:22:46 - 1:22:54) And we're going to keep seeing that more and more as, of course, colleges change. We're going to have free online MIT doctors. We're going to have AI doctors, robots. (1:22:54 - 1:23:02) It's all changing. We've got to like get with the program. And even if we're not ready or we're scared or we don't know what it looks like, we can at least accept. (1:23:02 - 1:23:10) Yeah. Oh, you're speaking our language now. Become who you were born to be is kind of our catchphrase here at Here I Give You the Truth. (1:23:11 - 1:23:15) It's the most important thing. We all have this unique seed of consciousness. You are one of one. (1:23:15 - 1:23:23) There's nobody like you. There never will be anybody like you again. So, how do you nurture that, especially as a guide? Exactly. (1:23:23 - 1:23:31) And I went to school forever. I went to college for seven years. My unraveling of the indoctrination was like dying. (1:23:31 - 1:23:42) And that's why I think a lot of people do not do it because it is painful. It actually feels like the end of the world and you feel like buried alone, suffocated. It's like, what's the point? I mean, it's all those things. (1:23:42 - 1:24:02) Anytime you do the work deeply, anyone who has done that, you know this feeling. And if I think about sometimes going back to what you were saying, would I have done anything differently? The best parts about my school were always the friends I made, the art classes I was in, and when I was in internships. I mean, I worked in jails. (1:24:02 - 1:24:05) I worked in hospitals. It was being with people. And I was already good at all this stuff. (1:24:05 - 1:24:13) And I didn't learn anything necessarily new in my program. I just like, you know, had student loans and had like a very, you know. Yeah, piece of paper. (1:24:14 - 1:24:16) Get that piece of paper. Yeah, piece of paper and a hat. You're an expert. (1:24:16 - 1:24:23) Kirsten, you're an expert now. And you know what? I went to school with a lot of people that I would never want to have my kids around. Yes. (1:24:23 - 1:24:28) Yeah, yeah. So, it's not just going and getting at home. It doesn't mean you're actually good at that. (1:24:28 - 1:24:36) And the testament is the actual your life. Yeah, that's that. That shit. (1:24:36 - 1:24:42) I think we're moving past that. This is the age of the authority, the age of the person, the expert. Like, fuck off. (1:24:42 - 1:24:46) I don't have any fancy fucking diplomas on my wall. Yeah, I went to school. Yes, I've done these things. (1:24:46 - 1:24:53) I don't give a fuck. I can literally line up 100 medically trained doctors. I feel confidence. (1:24:53 - 1:25:02) OK, that I would be able to help other people get better, healthier, more self-confident. Than these fucking people, to be honest. And no disrespect to a lot of them. (1:25:02 - 1:25:11) There's some great doctors out there. And, you know, they've been able to go through the schooling process. They've been able to prove that they can learn and memorize and do all that stuff and almost deal with a form of trauma-based mind control. (1:25:12 - 1:25:25) But that's a whole nother question. That's a whole nother conversation. But it's like at the same time, like, are you effective? OK, like we're in a society where people feel like they're just like more degenerated, more unhealthy, more dumb than ever. (1:25:25 - 1:25:36) So, the current model isn't working. Yeah, when I was when I was working in community mental health, which is never felt like that, there were like plugins in the bathroom. It was just so unhealthy. (1:25:36 - 1:25:51) But the doctor on our team, he would drink coffee and Dunkin' Donuts every morning. And was like had other issues that you could see physically, I will just say. And I remember and I remember, too, not that that was the only thing, but that was alarming to me. (1:25:51 - 1:26:01) And then I also remembered my clients who we shared didn't tell him anything. And they told me. You're either effective or you're not. (1:26:01 - 1:26:05) This is where we're coming to. That's it. You're authentic and people resonate with you. (1:26:05 - 1:26:13) And they're like, oh, my God, I love this person. I resonate like they support me so much or not. It doesn't I don't it doesn't I don't think it fully matters what letters you have after your name. (1:26:14 - 1:26:33) And the best helpers are the ones that help people that that support people in realizing that they are the one that know themselves best. I will often be in session with parents like, what should I do about this? And I mean, I definitely have some ideas and I can quickly tune in and I'm like in their home like I can see it. I can hear it. (1:26:34 - 1:26:46) It's it's a beautiful experience. And sometimes that's relevant. But often I'm like, well, what do you think is happening? If you could do it again, what would you do different? What do you think it's like for your kid? And the insight is absolutely amazing. (1:26:46 - 1:27:06) And I do it not because I'm trying to not work or help them. I'm doing it because I actually want them to stay connected or reconnect to that part of them that does know their kid that does have the quote answers and that knows something and that we and to realize they have that there's confidence in that. And it doesn't mean we always know everything. (1:27:06 - 1:27:09) It doesn't mean we don't need support. I'm also there for that. I'm like, let's brainstorm. (1:27:09 - 1:27:16) Let's dive in. And I do that, too. There's also space to to remember that we all have that. (1:27:16 - 1:27:19) And we do need each other. It's both. I hear you. (1:27:19 - 1:27:23) Yeah. But like there's no guru. There's no it's not outside of us. (1:27:23 - 1:27:55) No, I feel like the best teachers, like you said, like we've been talking about are the ones that like guide you back home, you know, guide you back home to yourself and understand the miracle that you are to be like to have agency, to have self-ownership, to be self-responsible, you know, whether it comes to your education or the work you do or even just understanding your body, you know, your physiology and going like, I don't need to outsource all this stuff to these people that are put on a pedestal that aren't really helping people to a certain degree. Obviously, they are in some cases. Like I'm not totally against allopathic model, but talk about that here. (1:27:56 - 1:28:09) You know, I just need to I feel like I need to throw that disclaimer out there because someone will be like, oh, how dare you know me? Lives have been saved by modern medicine. I have had an experience where my life was saved by modern medicine, and I'm so grateful. There's very there's a few things where it's like, yeah, for sure. (1:28:09 - 1:28:19) And for this overall general well-being, this is what we're talking about. And you guys might like physiology first. And if anyone listening wants to check his workout, so good. (1:28:19 - 1:28:27) So good. It's all about this. Let's teach kids now about their physiology, how to breathe, how to how to regulate. (1:28:27 - 1:28:33) Moving their body is important. Like this is our responsibility. And it's actually like an honor if you think about it. (1:28:33 - 1:28:38) Oh, yeah. Yeah. Let's think about the education system, grades, kindergarten through 12. (1:28:39 - 1:28:59) Are we taught about this? Our instruments, like our bodies, like really like how they work? What is our nervous system? I mean, I think little programs are coming in and, you know, people are teaching children, you know, about, you know, meditation and emotional regulation to some degree. But generally speaking, I learned that shit. Like I said before, I learned so much valuable stuff after I left the academic system. (1:29:00 - 1:29:12) Me too. Yeah. Like how much is like really like fostering the reality that you're in, you exist in this living, walking miracle, this super fucking machine that still no one properly understands. (1:29:12 - 1:29:19) What a gift even just to have this experience right now. It's incredible. It's absolutely amazing. (1:29:19 - 1:29:33) Even my tiny little example of like almost getting sick on Monday. Minded my way out of that. We have incredible powers in this self-containing, self-healing suit. (1:29:34 - 1:29:47) Yeah. And yeah, the kids that are in my world, they want to talk about working for themselves, the dreams they have. I asked a boy the other day if he could do things. (1:29:47 - 1:29:50) He's like, I'm okay. It's fine. Like he's like managing school stuff. (1:29:50 - 1:30:02) And I'm like, if you could do anything differently, if it could be your dream scenario, what would it be? And it wasn't like, I know what I'm going to do yet. I mean, he's young, but he's like, I'd be outside and I'd be building. And it's like, yeah, this makes so much sense. (1:30:02 - 1:30:06) This is just like what we're made to do. This is back to basics. Yeah. (1:30:06 - 1:30:13) Think real quickly too. I've had multiple conversations with people over the years where it's like, you know, I didn't go to college. I started working at 18. (1:30:13 - 1:30:18) And they're in like such an amazing position. Like they have savings. They own a house or whatever, if that's your thing. (1:30:19 - 1:30:22) Yeah. They're not 250K in debt. And again, it's not for everyone. (1:30:22 - 1:30:30) But like you said, if you're someone who's like, man, I just want to learn a trade or I want to build on my hands, like you could get started on that early. Yeah. At 15 years old. (1:30:30 - 1:30:33) If that's what you want. Absolutely. Yeah. (1:30:34 - 1:30:41) There's so much space for that. And there's actually a need for that. We know that there's like a great need for people with real skills and trade skills building. (1:30:42 - 1:30:52) Even if we have 3D printing machines making super cool homes, which we do. And if that becomes more popular, we're still going to need. I think that all of this, my husband's in AI stuff. (1:30:52 - 1:31:09) So I'm like deep into that world too. And the more that that's happening, it just shows how precious the human version is too. Someone's going to pay top dollar to have an architect or a stained glass designer or an original human painting. (1:31:09 - 1:31:21) This is only going to become more valuable, right? Oh, totally. There's no loss here. It's just let's raise the bottom to a better, more healthy place and then evolve from there. (1:31:22 - 1:31:28) 100%. In the long term, I think it can only make humans more creative. They can only increase demand for human creativity. (1:31:28 - 1:31:35) And whatever needs to be made redundant, it ultimately needs to be. I think it makes us more efficient. Totally. (1:31:35 - 1:31:44) Totally. Let's raise the bar in all the ways. Our health, our time, our healthy lives. (1:31:44 - 1:31:51) And then, hell yeah, let's do what we're here to do, which is have fun together. Yeah, for sure. Really. (1:31:51 - 1:31:53) I mean, I know that. I'm all for that. Yeah. (1:31:53 - 1:32:02) What's so hard for so many parents is like, they're so tired. And actually, so is their kid. Teenage brains, for anyone with a teenager listening, they need eight to 10 hours of sleep. (1:32:02 - 1:32:18) Sometimes they need like 11 or 12, depending on the kid and how much they're growing. The amount of growth that is happening in their brain during the teen years, if we could like magic school bus into it, we'd be like, holy shit. How do they get up at 6 a.m.? I'm amazed by my teenager. (1:32:19 - 1:32:23) I hated it. My sister had to pull me out of bed. I mean, I couldn't do it. (1:32:23 - 1:32:37) And it makes sense. We're not supposed to get up at 6 o'clock in the morning, unless the teens that do that really well are the teens that are on a mission and are doing what they want to do. They will get up at 6 a.m. for something they believe in and they want to do. (1:32:37 - 1:32:43) We all will. We know we have more motivation when we feel connected, meaningful, purposeful, and on our path. Yeah. (1:32:44 - 1:32:51) But what's happening now is teens are so sleep deprived that we're seeing actual health crisis because of that. Yeah. Yeah. (1:32:52 - 1:33:02) That's a big part of it that I think we're starting to talk about more and to recognize. Some schools are starting an hour later or whatever, but it's not enough. Their brains need sleep. (1:33:02 - 1:33:21) We are obsessed about our infant sleep and their naps and their toddlers. What happened to the teenagers? They need it too. And they're going to be much more pleasant, much more fun, and much more able to just function if they get their basic needs, minerals, sleep, connection. (1:33:22 - 1:33:29) Yeah. I mean, again, it's the problem of the imposition of the school, right? It doesn't allow for them to have 10, 11 hours sleep. Especially, they want to start exploring the night. (1:33:29 - 1:33:37) They want to stay up way later. They want to play the video game until 1 a.m. They want to write the song, play guitar, whatever. You can't do both. (1:33:38 - 1:33:42) And if you do both, you're going to be completely depleted. Exactly. It's such an imposition. (1:33:42 - 1:33:58) And that's why I say we just have to, and that's why we were talking about earlier, just you're having to navigate these things that aren't even natural. So are we saying that preparing teens for the world is putting them in highly unnatural and healthy scenarios? I hope not. I want these kids to live their best life. (1:33:58 - 1:34:12) I want them to do what they want to do in the world and follow their passions and their gifts. And school often does not promote that. Even for the type A kids, they're still like, I know I have to get through this to do the thing I want to do. (1:34:14 - 1:34:26) It's really hard. And it's a lot for parents to have to figure out on top of raising a child anyways in 2025. Thank you so much for your time. (1:34:26 - 1:34:39) This has been such a pleasure to sit down with you for the past 90 minutes. I got so much respect for the unique path that you've taken and your incredible wisdom in guiding teens and through your own personal experience as well. It's been amazing. (1:34:40 - 1:34:45) So my pleasure. I'm so glad you guys reached out to me. And yeah, I'm in awe of what you guys are doing too. (1:34:45 - 1:34:53) It's so critical for this. Thank you. The path that we're all on together. (1:34:53 - 1:34:59) And I really appreciate it. And if there's anything I can ever do to support you guys, just let me know. Thank you so much. (1:34:59 - 1:35:17) For anyone listening that is after support, what's the best way for them to kind of get in touch? Yeah, people can visit me at kirstenkobabe.com. And they can reach out for a free 30-minute call. I offer one for every family. Some people, that's all they can do or all they need. (1:35:18 - 1:35:30) And then I also have a parent group, which is amazing. And you can find more information about that at parentingwave.com. And we meet every week, me live, dive in, talk about stuff. It's so great. (1:35:30 - 1:35:35) I have great guest speakers and you get snail mail from me. It's just like a tight community. Awesome. (1:35:36 - 1:35:40) Yeah. Well, so awesome to connect. Maybe we'll do it again in the future. (1:35:40 - 1:35:46) And everyone else, thank you so much for listening. Take care. Thanks, y'all for diving deep with us and Kirsten today. (1:35:47 - 1:36:06) You know, these conversations about authenticity and transformation, they're not just theoretical. Ultimately, they're an invitation to examine your own journey. Speaking of which, if you're feeling called to take that next bold step, our foundational program, Rise Above the Herd, is opening its doors one final time. (1:36:07 - 1:36:24) And like Joel and I have said multiple times before, this isn't just another course. It's a 10-week immersive experience where theory meets practice. Through intimate integration sessions and specialized workshops, you'll work directly with us to uncover the parts of yourself that are ready to emerge. (1:36:25 - 1:36:40) We've seen over 120 individuals step beyond their comfort zones and enter their authentic power through this work. And our next and final live round begins in just a few weeks, March 4th. And we're saving just 10 spots for those that are really ready to rise. (1:36:40 - 1:36:55) So head to hereforthetruth.com forward slash RATH, that's RATH, R-A-T-H, to learn more about joining us. And until the next episode, keep questioning, keep growing, and most importantly, keep being real. Thanks for tuning in, guys. (1:36:55 - 1:37:08) Before you go, if you've been resonating with these conversations about authenticity, purpose, and breaking free from what holds you back, we've created something for you. The Real AF Test. It'll take about three to five minutes to complete. (1:37:08 - 1:37:26) No fluff, just the truth about where you really stand. Are you real AF or not? You can take the test at hereforthetruth.com. There's also a link in the brief below. And once you complete it, you'll receive our guide, the 10 Commandments of Being Real AF, along with insights to help you break free from what's holding you back. (1:37:26 - 1:37:29) Until next time, thanks for being here for the truth.