Nate Feathers Fatherhood

[Speaker 2] (0:00 - 3:01) You are now listening to the Here for the Truth Podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Yerasimos. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Here for the Truth Podcast. I'm Joel Rafiti. I've got my co-host, Yerasimos, in the house as always, actually, I'm in his house right now. Me and the fam have been visiting from Mexico, we've been staying in Topanga with Yerasimos the last 12 nights. It's just been an incredible time being able to connect in this way, in his environment this time. It's been awesome to actually record a couple of podcasts while being here as well. We've got Nate Feathers today. Nate Feathers, he is a father of five, and just a deep, sincere dude who's on a journey and on a mission to really inspire fathers to be the best that they can be, because it really is a sacred journey being a father and just the privilege of a lifetime. Being able to, I guess, share, nurture, and cultivate the gift of life. Right before we get into Nate, guys, this is the final week to apply for Rise Above the Herd, which is our eight-week group coaching program for truth seekers. We start July 10. So I don't know how much more I need to say. But if you feel the call to really dive deep into becoming who you were born to be, into the best version of yourself, into developing true, authentic self-esteem, which will touch and impact every single aspect of your life, in many ways, if you want to get on with walking that authentic path, we're here for you. That's what we do. We'd love to connect and meet you, connect with you and meet you, and go on this journey with you. So if that hits home at all, you can head to riseabovetheherd.co and submit an application. And we would love to connect with you. I think that's it from us. Please enjoy this amazing episode of Here for the Truth. All right, everybody, welcome back to the Here for the Truth podcast. We have another amazing human with us today. We've got Nate Feathers. He's a father of five, dedicated to living as the example to his children, knowing they will do what he does immensely more than what he says. He found his passion in helping men be fierce and loving fathers who have the warrior mindset outside the house, with the gentle spirit of careful gardeners inside the home. Nate, such a pleasure to have you here, bro. I'm glad to be here, guys. Thank you so much for having me on. Oh, man, totally. Dude, one way we always like to kick this off, especially with new guests is I want to really dive a little bit deep into your personal story, your own personal arc of your hero's journey, and some of the major rites of passage that really, I guess, forged you into the man and human being that you are today. [Speaker 1] (3:02 - 3:08) Sure. Yeah, that's not a problem at all. I mean, do I start all the way back or? [Speaker 2] (3:09 - 3:11) Whatever you want, man, whatever you feel inspired to talk about. [Speaker 1] (3:12 - 6:11) Yeah, start where you're called. Yeah. So I will say, I guess I'll go back to, I grew up in the church. My dad was a pastor. And so that really kind of set some things in motion that I look back on now. And I mean, all love for that kind of stuff, like not a big deal. But it definitely set certain things in motion as how to parent that are what I call my default settings. You know, I think when we're growing up, we tend to parent when we get to become parents, we tend to parent how we were parented. And so, I don't know, like, I didn't, I didn't grow up thinking, oh, I can't wait to be a dad. I didn't grow up, you know, how, at least from my standpoint, girls grow up thinking how they're like, their wedding's gonna go, they plan their wedding out. And then, you know, all of those things. I didn't think through any of that ever, it was just like, assumed that, yeah, I'll get married at some point. And then I'll have kids and they, they just come along for the ride of whatever life is. So, I never, I never set out to be a dad who, I never set out to be a dad, I just assumed that that would happen. And then I never, because of that, never thought parenting takes focus and direction and intention, because I just thought it was a default thing. The problem with that is that my defaults were, well, you know, when kids don't do what they're told, they get spanked. And that wasn't from an abusive household, that was just from the way I grew up. I would say my brother was the golden child, as we call, as we lovingly call him. He didn't do anything wrong, all the way down to, you know, if he got one little speck of anything on him when he ate, he'd be like, hands off, hands off, and mom would clean his hands. And then I'm the kid that's eating soup with my hands, you know, as it's in my hair and all of that, which is wonderful because now I have five and they all did that. I got no golden children, I just got all of me, you know, that kind of thing. But so I didn't realize it was, you kind of have to have intention in anything you do because I just thought parenting came just, that's the way it was. So I guess I would say growing up, that's my default settings. So when I started down the path of being a dad, I, it was almost as if a switch was flipped. I was real laid back as just a, just a guy, right? I got married right out of college. Uh, I look at my oldest son, he's 19. So he's in college and I even tell him now, I'm like, if I got married at 20 and I say to him, if you're, if you know who you are at 20, then, and you say, I want to marry this girl, then awesome. But what I know is that I didn't know myself at 20 and you're likely not going to know yourself at 20. So give yourself some space, you know, I said the other day to my wife, maybe guys shouldn't even date till we're 35, maybe we should build some stuff and become something and then look up from what we're building and see what we attract into our life. Um, if only I could rewind and do that, you know, there's something to be said about that though. [Speaker 2] (6:11 - 6:24) Cause you know, you know, we've had that conversation before with people and as a man, I think, you know, focusing on your mission and working on your personal growth and, and healing and doing what you need to do to be the best version of yourself before you then take that next step. So yeah, absolutely. [Speaker 1] (6:25 - 10:25) Absolutely. And again, growing up in the church, there was this whole concept of, uh, like no sex before marriage. So, you know, you're out of your mind, horny at 15 and you don't know what to do with yourself. And so at 18, you go to college and you start, you start dating and you're like, well, things have to stop at a certain point because I can't go further than that. So then now we're talking marriage at 19 and 20 and uh, I still think that there's some value in that stuff. I see it completely different now and we can get it out if you want, but I see it differently now. And so I look back on my life and go, well, a lot of guys I knew would go down that path of, well, getting married almost because they just want to be able to have sex and Oh, what a horrible reason to get married. I mean, that's not what you want to do. Uh, so, you know, raising our kids, there is a piece of my soul every once in a while I want to tell my kids to kick the tires and take it for a drive. Um, when, when we have those conversations with the olders, there's a piece of my soul that still goes, no, don't do that. But it's for a totally different reason now. And now it's, Hey, if you're going to go down this path, you don't have to, you don't have to marry somebody just because you had sex with them. But I'm also the guy that's going to say there's something sacred about that. And all of you mental, spiritual, all of that is involved in that even if you don't think it is. And so in that sense, don't just go everywhere doing this with anybody because it's, it's important that, you know, it's, it's a serious deal. And from that come children. Um, you know, it's just like, there's a lot in there that thinking through it, I wish I had seen it differently then that now that I do as I parent and as I talked to my older kids and we walk through that, I just don't, I don't parent the way I was parented anymore. And it's a lot more intentional because I'm trying to say to them instead. And again, it comes back to that whole build something to my oldest. I said it to him yesterday, build something, create, you want to be a guitarist. He's an amazing guitarist. I'm like, you, you're in Nashville, get into the scene, start down through that stuff, be in the beyond beyond Broadway, you know, past the pickle jar, all the things that all these stars talk about that they did. Um, and you know, when you build something, look up and if you want to date somebody, you're going to attract, you're going to be a higher caliber person. So you're going to attract in a higher caliber person. And that's not a knock on my ex wife by any means. It's just, that's where we were and we had no idea. And there was so much that I just assumed out of that, that was wrong, that I shouldn't have assumed I should have had more purpose in my mindset. So now that's, that's how I talked to my older ones. You know, I talked to my 19 year old, like have a purpose, go for it. And when you look up, look around, see who you're attracting into your life. If you find her attractive, maybe start talking marriage then, you know, and if you're 35 who cares? You know, I had my oldest, I had my youngest at 40 so what's the matter? Yeah. Um, but, but then I, I rolled through, I mean you go through and I can fast forward to where I became dad's don't babysit, uh, really where that really blew up was when I sat down after taking the oldest to college. So I haven't, at that time it was, I mean I have a 19, 16, 7, 6 and 2 right now, right? So I sat down after we took him to college and I just started thinking, wow, there was so much I could have done different and I wish I had, there's a lot of regret that washed over me. And so I just, I did a video where I said, Hey, veteran advice from a father of five. And I put that out and then I put some other stuff out that really went and it started to resonate with people that I'm saying, I could have done this different. So now I'm gonna, and some of the thoughts I have about that are, I don't think we need to spank our children. I was spanked and I wasn't abused, but I think we can correct in a different way and we can be different and we can be kind to our children because they're humans and we'll make them better people for that matter, you know? And so that's where that really started to come out. [Speaker 2] (10:26 - 10:48) It's actually like a, it's such a fine line between like looking back and recognizing like the error of our ways and like, you know, being with that regret and also like acknowledging that we are everything that we are today and we walk the path that we did because, you know, of those bumps against the walls and those knocks that we had. And yeah, it's just, just curious to ponder on that thought for sure. [Speaker 1] (10:49 - 11:20) Yeah, no, and that's seriously true. You can't sit in your regret at all. I mean, you know, I did actually have one of those, those light flash before your eyes and I just kept seeing stuff that I did wrong and like, man, that's awful. So what I do, I started saying, I'm not going to do that. And I'm gonna tell other dads, Hey, you don't have to live like that. And then I went to my oldest son specifically because he took the majority of my immaturity as a dad. And I just said, dude, I screwed up, man. I'm so sorry. And we're on the repair, you know, all we can do is apologize. [Speaker 2] (11:21 - 11:21) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (11:21 - 11:57) So just keep going with it and apologize for your mess ups and try to be the example. I mean, I keep coming back to that for my life. Like how I talk is how they talk. Sometimes that's, I'm, I'm just like, Oh, stop talking, stop talking like me, you know, but at the same time, how I act is how they're going to act. So how I treat them is how they're going to treat each other and how they're going to treat the people outside of our house and in this world. And what do I want to create? What kind of people do I want to cultivate them into? And I'm trying to create my drinking buddies and my best friends, you know? Yeah, man. [Speaker 2] (11:57 - 12:24) Yeah. So that's where a lot of that comes from. Yeah. And like, what a gift and what a responsibility when you really put it that way. You know, like, these little beings are literally being molded in my image. So how does that really sit with me? And how does that, you know, really, I guess, affect the trajectory of my actions from this point in time? Yeah, absolutely. No doubt. [Speaker 1] (12:25 - 13:06) I guess I'm gone. You're right. Yeah. No, no doubt. It's, uh, it's, it's heavy, but it's also, it's so exciting. You know, I, I try to find the excitement in it because if you sit on the heavy too much, you'll stress yourself out, I think. But it's so exciting to know. I literally have visions in my head of calling my kids and saying, Hey, let's go get beers. Let's go. Let's go hang out. And, you know, them looking forward to that as well. You know, and I mean, I honestly have visions of my grandkids calling me saying, Hey, Pap, I want to go. I want to come down. I want to do this. And I just, all right, let's hop on a plane. I'll get you and let's go, you know, or whatever we're going to do. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (13:07 - 13:18) Well, where do you think like you, I know you kind of touched on it, but like, where do you think you really like kind of cultivated this deep sensitivity towards what it like means to be, to be a father? You know, like it's rare, man. [Speaker 1] (13:20 - 15:20) Yeah. You know, it's, I don't know. I would say that I have a pretty heavy duty, sensitive, sensitive side. So I have, my wife talks about it in this way. I have the ability to put myself in other people's shoes quite easily. Or people say you're like an empath or an empath where you can hear the, hear their story and then sit in their shoes. And I mean, that is a big deal to be able to stand in someone else's perspective and understand that. So being able to do that has given me the ability to interact with people on a different level. And so when I do that for my children and that's what I do, I literally, I'll literally try to stand at it from their concept. You know, I just go, how would I feel about that? You know, they're playing their video games. My younger two have tablets and they have certain timeframes that they can play on those. And, and if they're on there and then I see that they've got a bunch of junk sitting everywhere and I just come walking in, I'm like, Hey, you didn't pick this stuff up, go pick this stuff up right now. Well, they're in the middle of something. Can I, can I, can I get to the end of this level? Can I like pause the game, whatever it is. And a lot of times the old Nate would have just been like, obedience happens immediately because that's the way it was when I grew up. You do what you're told when you're told almost pretty much how you're told to do it. And, and I think about that and I'm thinking, as an adult, that would drive me nuts. Don't tell me what to do. Don't come in here and just like rip a tablet out of my hand. Like you're, you're a jerk if that's what you're doing. Well, that's how I come across to my kids if that's how I do it. So you know, you walk in and you're like, Hey, um, we got some stuff we gotta take care of. Can you guys do that? Yeah. Dad, hang on one second. No problem, buddy. Just make sure, pause the game, go back in there and then give them the time and the space to do it in, in a timeframe that's yes, obedient or working with you, but, but at the same time, you're not right on it as a military style. You know, I don't know. I think that it comes from being just standing in someone else's shoes and wondering how I would handle that. [Speaker 2] (15:21 - 16:17) Yeah. I think sensitivity is important and I'll just throw this out there. I've said this before. I'm not a father, but I love having a conversation with parents and I've had this conversation at least three times in the last couple of weeks that the parents that I've spoken with, they have this level of self-awareness where they go, you know, with my kids sometimes when I'm engaging with them, I, I go, well, if I was them, like if, how would I want my parents to have treated me, you know, what would be ideal? And then how can I then apply that? Now again, it takes a certain level of self-awareness, health, you know, you know, somewhat being somewhat regulated in your nervous system because people get triggered very easily, but just to go, Hey, listen, if I was in this position 20, 30 years ago, 40 years ago, you know, how would I want my parents to speak to me? You know, what would I want them to just give me an order of what I want them to ask a question and what I want them to be curious, what I want them to like, be able to set healthy boundaries and not be authoritarian. And I just think that's something that I think could be beneficial. So I'm curious your thoughts on that. [Speaker 1] (16:18 - 18:18) Yeah, no, I think that's exactly what we do. And I think this is more of a guy thing than it is, um, uh, a full parent, like a, a mom and a dad thing, but I think it comes more from being dads, but we, one, we probably didn't get that. Our, our parents. And so our, again, default setting is you do what you're told when you're told how you're told to do it, all of those things. However, when you think about how much you want to connect with your kids. So again, long-term thinking, I want them to want, I want them to hear the phone and see that it's dad and not go, ah, crap, not answering that. You know what I mean? Because if you, if you treat them like what, like, like just taking their stuff and treating them without respect one, they're not really going to respect you either. But two, in the future, when they don't have to be around you, they won't want to be around you. And what a horrible life to live, especially, especially as a father of five, what a horrible life to come to the end and say, I had five children and umpteen grandchildren and they never came around because I was a mean, mean cuss when my kids were in my house. And so it comes back from, maybe it's a selfish thought process, but it comes back from how do I want to connect with them in the future? Perfect example is I got a friend who basically he's, his son is five or six, somewhere in there. And he was talking about how he's like, I'll be a great dad at 16. And I said to him, yeah, but if you don't get a figure out on, if you don't get a handle on how to deal with him now and how to work with him now at 16, when you're a great dad for a 16 year old, he won't want to hang out with you anyways. So you'll have no connection and it won't work. We have to connect when they're little, when they want us to create that connection that makes them want to come around when they're teenagers. Because as I tell you, as a father of teens, they'd rather be with their friends and they tend to go to their rooms and hang out and stuff like that. They just, little kids are in your business all the time and teenagers just aren't. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (18:19 - 18:29) What were some of the, like the main lessons that you learned from like the old Nate and how you parented versus now, like, you know, and, and what, what were the catalysts for that? Like the aha moments of like, Oh shit. [Speaker 1] (18:30 - 20:39) Yeah. Yeah. No, seriously. It all comes back. Number one, my number one thing to any dad is relax, just relax. Like it's, there's so much that, that covers a multitude of things, whether it's fatherhood or sports. I mean, the guys that are tense in any kind of match are going to play worse than the guys that are loose and chill. Right. Same with fatherhood. If you will just relax, breathe, like you said, having some self-awareness actually gives you space, even in the midst of having a issue with your kids when they're screaming and yelling and crying and you can't get them to calm down, that can get all built up. And so if you can just breathe and relax, just so much changes for you. And then you're able to see, you know, I played soccer, then you can see the field when you get the ball. If you can relax and chill out, you can see the field cause you can look up from what's going on. Same thing in parenting. If you can calm down, you can see where you want to go and how you want to connect. And then it's, then it's that as far as catalysts, dude, I really think it was the, the regret of, I could see in my head, my oldest had really fuzzy, spiky hair when he was little. I don't know why, but he would, uh, he would, I could see him walking and it like bouncing across where like I'm in bed and I can see his little fuzz bunk bouncing across to walk to the other side of the bed. And I wouldn't let, I wouldn't let him stay in the bedroom. Like I constantly was like, no, you can't be in here. You can't be in here. And stuff like that where I'm thinking, I even had a psychologist say shut and lock the door and then talk to him from inside the door while he's outside. I mean, just imagine that you're three, you're scared and you have no one around. And then your parents are like, sorry, buddy, you can't come in and just go back to bed. I thought about that. And I almost cried. I just thought, man, what a horrible way to treat my kid. And so a lot of it comes from, well, what did I do before? Well, I was kind of mean and I was rude and I was impatient. So I'm just gonna take all those things and try to do the opposite and see how it goes. And uh, it's not easy. That is, I mean, it's so much easier to just get what I want when I want it, but it just kills everything else that I want in, in, in the distance of time in the future. [Speaker 2] (20:40 - 21:08) Yeah. Yeah. You know, self care is so important. You know, you have to take care of yourself cause you know, you said earlier, calm down, relax. Like those are just words. You know, what, what, what does a person need to do to go, Hey, listen, why am I so triggered? You know, why am I repeating these patterns from like that my dad and my granddad did to me? Like I need to really look inwards or maybe I need to go hit a boxing bag so I'm not so tense up. Or maybe I need to go work on my trauma or I need to cry or I need to be part of a men's group. You know what I mean? Like that's what's, it's important. [Speaker 1] (21:08 - 21:52) It's so important. And there are days where if I didn't hit the gym, I hit the gym pretty early cause I can't usually go if that's the case after that, where my wife has been like, you need to go work out like right now. And that's totally true. I'm a totally different human when I'm working out and I feel good. There's something to be said about that whole concept of self care. You're spot on, man. I mean, being able to work through stuff, even if it's a cry and I know guys are not supposed to cry or whatever dumb stuff we talk about. That's so not true. You know, like we got to let that stuff out. We got to let it out and in whatever ways to be able to be present in those moments and relax. Yeah, you're right. It's just words unless you've really done some work on the inside for sure. For sure. [Speaker 2] (21:53 - 22:55) Yeah, man. How we're feeling about ourselves literally affects everything and everyone inside, inside the house. You know, like there's times where I'm in like a really like shitty self-loathing state where I actually know it's better if I'm not in here, you know, than actually being in here and projecting that onto everyone else and responding and reacting to everyone from that state of being. And like, I feel like we're so programmed in many ways. You know, this whole concept of just sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice, but like, ultimately, man, that builds up and you're not going to be a healthy, productive, efficient, loving, caring, nurturing father. You know, if you've allowed your cup to wither down to nothing, you know, for everyone else. And I don't think that's a healthy way of being either. No, you're so good at this spot on. Yeah. Or husband too, you know, like being a healthy husband and communicating with your partner like because you're not taking care of yourself, you're not exercising, you're not moving your body, you're not breathing, you know, you're just like stewing. And then there's little things like the little things just trigger you, you know, like what the F, you know? [Speaker 1] (22:57 - 24:08) Totally true. I heard somebody say that the people in your life are mirrors to show you what work you need done. And I mean, kids will kids will draw that out of you so fast. I think when people get married or they live together, that gets that they're like, oh, my gosh, this is so hard. And I remember thinking, why is this so hard? I don't understand why this is such a difficult process or deal. But it just because that person mirrors you start seeing in them the things you need to work on. Or they're at least drawing it out. You're not seeing the exact things. They're just triggering things that you need to be able to work on. And the the self aware person says to themselves, I need to work on that because this is something that's bothering me. Obviously got to have conversations with your spouse or your partner when it involves them. But with your kids having that conversation, to some level, they don't understand. So how are they supposed to handle that you have to be able to self regulate? Because they can't, you know, they got all the same emotions we do. So anger, frustration, fear, all of that, but they have no way of regulating it. They're trusting us to regulate that for them until they learn how and to teach them how to do that. And we teach that by example. [Speaker 2] (24:10 - 24:34) Yeah, for sure, man. Can I ask you this one question, because, you know, in parenting, again, based on my observations and things I read, you know, for a lot of people, they've gone from this authoritarian, like you have to control your children. And there's also this complete flip to like, like, just your kid could do whatever they want. Like he can be 100% feral and just doesn't matter. No manner. Like no. Like, where is that line? [Speaker 1] (24:34 - 24:35) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (24:35 - 24:44) Like, you know, kindness, compassion, sensitivity, treating them like a human and being like, yo, like, we got to set some freaking boundaries here, you know, so we could talk on that. [Speaker 1] (24:44 - 28:29) Yeah, no, no. I actually fought this concept of, I like how Dr. Shefali calls it conscious parenting, because it's more, I align more with that than gentle parenting, because that makes me feel when I hear gentle, and I'm not saying gentle is wrong, or they're not very similar. But when I hear that, from my standpoint, I'm like, I want to be rough, I want to be I want to be like a hard man, I want, like, I want to be the kind of guy that when I see something wrong, or someone hurting someone else, I can step in, and I'm not afraid to get in a fight. So there's a, there's an element of me specifically, where I want to be hard enough and scary enough that if I'm out in the world, and I have to be that way, that I can be that way. That said, I also like, so when I hear this whole gentle parenting, I don't want weak children, I want my boys to be strong, and powerful, and to be able to stand on their own two feet and stand on what they believe and handle life as it comes at them. I want that for my boys and for my daughters. So I bucked against gentle parenting a lot. But I like the concept of conscious parenting, because it's actually, the concept there, in my opinion, is I'm paying attention to what I need to do to accomplish the goal of what my parenting is, as well as knowing that this is another human being. And so it just sounds like total permissive parenting is what gentle parenting sounded like. And that's what you're talking about. The opposite side of that is permissive parenting, hand them a tablet, let them run on it. When they go to somebody else's house, they're jumping off their couch, and they're running around and they're breaking stuff that is unacceptable, in my opinion. And so you're right, there have to be boundaries. It's how we hold those boundaries, in my opinion. So my old way of doing it was, this is what I said, I mean, I can guarantee you my face looked angry every time I talked to my kids. And sometimes I'll say something, and I'm loud, I'm a loud, like my voice booms through our house, it's hardwood floors. So if I call them or say something, my wife is constantly being like, what's wrong with you? Why are you yelling? I'm not yelling. I'm just passionate, right? Yeah, I get it. So that kind of stuff can come across like I'm mad and I'm not. So I have to be careful there. But that's how I parented angry. I was mad that they were doing what they were doing. I was annoyed that they were whatever it was, and that they wouldn't listen. And so the opposite is just checking out. And I think that's where permissive parenting steps in. You can't check out, you have to be able to hold those boundaries, and you just hold them different. Hey, man, we can't do that. And if you're going to keep doing that, then we're going to have to, we're going to reset in some way, shape or form, but there, you can't hit with a toy, hey, listen, we can't hit that's not what we do. So instead, we're going to need to play differently. Can you try that? Let's make this right. Let's try that. And if they do it again, be like, hey, man, you're gonna lose the toy, you can't have it if you can't do what you're supposed to do with it. And then then you take it and they might freak out and have a bad time. Again, the impatient parent will not do that because it takes too much. And then I think it takes a lot more work to be on that fine line that you're talking about understanding what's really important and what you can let go. I'm not letting them run around somebody else's house, but my house, I mean, I got a scooter right now. I mean, I just took a video of my daughter riding a scooter. She's driving by going, hi, dad, as she like goes by. My oldest I'd have been like, no, we're not having a scooter in the house. And there's been plenty of times where I'm like, get the scooter outside. But at the same time, what's the big deal? Is she break anything? Is she doing it? No, I can let that slide. I think it it builds trust enough that when I say, hey, we got to stop. They listen more to I think, yeah, there's gotta be a little bit of balance. [Speaker 2] (28:29 - 29:08) But I like what you said, too, because like, I grew up old school Greek parents, you know, my parents are like immigrants, like, you know, having manners and being somewhat civilized is important. Now, again, they're a little old school. So maybe they could have did, you know, like 20, 30 percent less in some areas, but also a lot of the things that like my brother and I get respect for from our surroundings, like we can communicate with people, you know, we're kind there's like like we understand we have social intelligence. And so like when I meet young kids that like, you know, are behaved, but not in this like fear based place, but just understand, respect and understand boundaries and come in and they're young and they look at you in the eye and they say, thank you very much. Like there's something about that. I'm like, yo, that's dope. [Speaker 1] (29:08 - 30:34) That is dope. Yeah. That's actually parents more than likely modeling that. And that's the hard part is if you want your kids to say please and thank you, you have to say please and thank you to them because you're modeling that that's that's they're going to they're going to be like you. So you're absolutely right. It is amazing to see that because it doesn't happen. And parents who just let their kids do whatever tend to allow them to become entitled because they just get whatever because they're like, whatever, I don't want to deal with you. And parents that are teaching their kids respect are likely, in my opinion, extremely respectful to their children. But you also have to understand that, I mean, anywhere outside of our house, my kids act way better than they do in my house. And some people say that that's because they feel safer here. It's their place of peace, their home. Totally OK with that. As long as when we go out into public and we go out to other people's houses, you act like I know you can. And they do. It's almost without question to a to a child when they're out somewhere else. They do exactly what we're begging them to do in our house. But there's just a freedom in the house that you've got to be able to as a parent go. I know that this is getting in there. It's getting in their subconscious. We just give it some time. I'm going to have dings and dents all over my house from probably from that scooter. But I can fix a wall and I can paint it later. Might as well go with it for now. It's not that big of a deal to me. Some people it is. I don't know. [Speaker 3] (30:36 - 30:37) That's the thing, man. [Speaker 2] (30:37 - 31:30) I think like in the beginning when they're really little, like we don't like you mentioned before, like with the long term thinking, we don't really grasp that they're like they're fully conscious beings like perceiving and receiving everything as the humans just like us. But we kind of, you know, I feel like there's this kind of like this sentiment, you know, within the mainstream status quo, where like we kind of tend to check out in the early years or we treat them as less than, you know, but when it comes to really, you know, modeling what it is to be a healthy human being, like, you know, with respect, and with, you know, proper engagement, etc, etc, you know, like we really need to speak to these children from a young age as if they are already there as if they because they are deserving of that already, you know, but it's almost like we feel as though because they can't fully engage with us consciously, then you know, we need to be less than, we need to treat them as less than. I think that causes so many problems. [Speaker 1] (31:32 - 33:26) I totally agree. That's how I was. I was, I didn't I treated I treated my older ones as less than because they weren't what fully developed. And the difference now is that I just constantly come back to going that's a whole human being. And I got to see the world from their eyes. If I can do that, then I can change how I act. And I did a I did a real one time when I said you're already scared, like dad specifically, you're already scary. Like my kids think I'm the strongest man in the world. They have no idea that there is actually a world's strongest man who could crush me. You know, they think I'm a beast. And I want them to think that, you know, I always say like, be the badass that your kids think you are, like, go for it, be the best version of that. I mean, in the gym or physically, like whatever, like you should be that that'd be awesome. That's what I want. But because of that there, there's already an intimidation factor that I have. And then I raise my voice and I look angry, man, I'm just sending them right into fight or flight mode. I mean, think about it. It's like, oh, shoot. Like if the world's strongest man got looked at me the way I look at my kids, sometimes I'm, I'm gonna be like, he's gonna hurt me. I'm in big trouble. And now I'm afraid. But I'm not gonna put the scooter down, man, put the scooter down. Exactly. And then am I gonna try and connect with him? No, I'm gonna run away from him like this guy's gonna hurt me. I'm out. You know. And so I just if you can think that way as a dad specifically, and I know I talk to dads a lot, but moms pick up on this and they feel that as well. If dads can just come back to that and going, I already have the intimidation factor and I don't need it. I don't need it in my house. Then you get to connect with them on a level that's amazing. All I want is my kids don't want to snuggle up on me. And I mean, as I'm just thinking about it now, I'm like, God, I love that. Get in here. You know, it's I love it. [Speaker 2] (33:26 - 33:54) Yeah. Especially the early the early years, man, those formative years, like safety is the most important. A kid's nervous system feeling safe, you know, is so, so important. But you know, that very often doesn't happen unless the parent has done their own work to heal their wounds with their dad, their their mom, whatever trauma they've been through, you know, so they aren't getting triggered just like that. But like safety, safety, safety is so important in those early, early years. Again, in my opinion, just from an outsider's point of view, you're spot on, dude. [Speaker 1] (33:54 - 35:08) It's totally true. I mean, I looked into I'm going to totally blow it. But I think it's a Bruce Lipton talked about he was on the model health show, and he talked about how when you go into fight or flight or stress state, your blood vessels constrict because when you go into fight or flight, you really don't need to be thinking about digesting or thinking you need to be in a brain where you just react. So all the blood goes out of those areas because those blood vessels constrict. And they that goes to your hands and your feet so you can run or you can fight. So you're not going to really learn much because most of the blood is going somewhere else to do something completely different. So if we don't give them a safe place, even when we're frustrated or all those things, they're not really going to learn. They're just going to be trying to get away. Or some kids and I've had people say this to me, they're like, my kid will stand and fight with you. No doubt, same response, like different response to the same thing that's happening inside. They just are ready to they just think they have to fight. So they're going to take a stand and go for it. They're still not going to learn what you're wanting them to learn, because all of their cognitive functions have been lowered, simply because you put them in a different state of being. And you're right. And if we can help them feel safe, the learning happens so much more smooth. [Speaker 2] (35:08 - 35:45) Yeah. And the other thing to consider, too, is because I think many people can get caught up on, you know, oh, I'm doing this wrong, or I my nervous system isn't fully healthy. Like at the end of the day, like people are doing what they can, you know, and what you said earlier, repair is so important, taking accountability and taking ownership. Because, again, I just speak about it just in terms of general relationships. Like if I get into something with my wife, like we're human, things are going to happen. Things are going to be messy. It's not going to be all rainbows and butterflies. And but what do you do after, you know, after the incident, after the trigger? That says a lot, too. And it's extremely, extremely important, especially taking responsibility. [Speaker 1] (35:47 - 36:43) Yeah, absolutely. So that's usually my second my second rule, like relax and apologize. Do it all the time. You know, I've walked into room. I've walked in the room where my kids have been in bed. I just put him in bed. I open the door like, hey, and I like here's the thing. I don't cuss a lot. I don't cuss on my reels. But I do cuss around my house and I cuss like with my friends and stuff like that. I'll be I'll reach in and I'll be like, hey, I probably did something to fuck you up today. And I am very sorry about that. Um, I'll pay for college. I'm not going to pay for college, but I'm probably going to be OK with paying for therapy. Sorry. It's like, I don't know what I did. You might have received something that I did that's completely mean. And I didn't mean it that way. So I'm sorry. Or I did something totally mean. And I know it. And I just I need to apologize to you. And the faster we do that, guess what? In the middle of that, they get to see that, too. So we also fix and repair, like you said. But we also teach them the example of apologizing. [Speaker 2] (36:43 - 37:07) Yeah, model that in the act of doing the thing, you're modeling it. And then they go, OK, it's because they're kids. They're going to do something. I might punch someone in the face. They may push someone's bike down, which is what I did as a kid. I used to just go around putting people's bikes down, you know. And that was my go to my little Napoleon complex, you know, neighborhood, you know. But then again, having the ability to go afterwards and be, hey, I'm sorry. And to really mean it. You know, I think kids can really tune into your energy. Do you mean it? Are you just saying it? [Speaker 1] (37:08 - 38:12) Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And being able to talk to your kids about being human, like I mess up. I don't know how you guys felt with your parents, but I felt like my dad was perfect. I felt like my mom, even to this day, my mom passed away when I was 21. And I look at my brother sometimes, like back in the day, we talked about it. I'm like, I don't remember her yelling like she seemed perfect. I don't remember any of that stuff. But what I can say is that I don't want my kids to think I'm perfect. I just want them to think, to know that I want to be around them. I want them to be around me. And I'm going to apologize when I screw up. And if I need it, or if they came to me, honestly, if they came to me and said, you did this, you did this, and you did this, and it really hurt. I'm so sorry. Why is that so hard? I don't understand why that's hard for us. And specifically to dads and guys, I say that we have an ego that says I'm right. And I know best. And you don't, you really don't. And you definitely can't know what they're thinking or how they're feeling. So let them get it out. And then apologize for how you made them feel. That's okay. [Speaker 2] (38:13 - 38:33) Yeah. Yeah. People know best within their so limited frame of thinking. You know, it's like, this is where like humility needs to come into play. It's like, really? You know best. Really? You know everything. Really? You have all the answers to all the questions that have ever existed in the universe. Like, get the fuck out of here. That's so true. [Speaker 1] (38:33 - 38:55) And we do that too, man. Like, I was that way. I was such an arrogant father when I was older or when I was younger. And it's so crazy that I've grown and learned. And I'm way less arrogant now because I know I don't know anything. You know, that's, you don't know anything and you realize you don't know much. So you just, that humility has got to come in. Might as well you can learn more that way and become better. [Speaker 2] (38:55 - 39:38) It's being honest. Like, hey, listen, you know, your dad is smart. Your dad can like, you know, fix things. But like, I also don't have, you know, the answers to all the questions. You know, like that level of connection and vulnerability. Like, I'm blessed with the parents I had. They were very loving. They're old school. My parents are legends. And they're not the ones, I can't remember the times they've actually said, I'm sorry. Like, like really like take responsibility and accountability for a thing. Like, that's just not, that's just not a big old school thing, you know. But it's something like, I think not now as I'm older, but when I was younger, I craved it. Like, why couldn't you just say, hey, like, I was wrong. You know, I was sorry. I think that would, that goes such a long way to building trust and connection. [Speaker 1] (39:38 - 40:17) Sure. Absolutely. I think that a lot of guys that I'm connecting with now, as this has been going on too, is I'm seeing that dads, dads are, dads are stepping into that role and saying that they don't know everything. I mean, there's tons of us out there that are still old school because that's our factory default. But, but there are plenty of guys who are stepping into their fatherhood and saying, I'm going to do things differently. And I'm going to do, I'm going to, I'm going to do my best. And they are becoming more willing to apologize. But I agree with you, man. I think the one time I remember my dad apologizing, it was not a sincere apology. It was like, well, I'm sorry. Like, what do you want me to say? [Speaker 2] (40:19 - 40:55) Like, it didn't really work. It's the apology. And listen, I've done this in relationship. It's the apology following by the justification and rationalization, as opposed to just being like, hey, I'm sorry. Like, I'm sorry. But if you didn't do this, I'm sorry. But if you didn't do X, Y, and Z, then I wouldn't have done that. And it's like, no, no, just end it. Two words. I'm sorry. Well, that's, I mean, that's an interesting question. Like, how does one cultivate more sincerity in that regard? You know, because very often we just want to get out of the scenario and just, you know, say what's necessary to get ourselves out of the heat. But how does one actually cultivate sincerity in that sense? [Speaker 1] (40:57 - 41:39) Yeah, that's, that's hard. It's got to come back to being self-aware. I mean, it's got to come back to humility and self-awareness, I think. I mean, all of my, all of my growth comes from the fact that I say, like you guys said, I don't know everything. Yeah. So if I don't, then there's more for me to learn from somebody else when it comes to that stuff and just giving that, getting, becoming more sincere. It's being willing to know you don't know everything, being willing to be humble and learn from the other person or other people. I don't know, man. I think that's, it's got to come from that self-awareness that you aren't, you know, the end-all be-all and you could, you can learn some things from others for sure. [Speaker 2] (41:39 - 41:40) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (41:40 - 41:41) I don't know. What do you think? [Speaker 2] (41:41 - 43:12) Well, I think, I think it's, I think if you're in the process of like, you know, consciously evolving and you recognize that your consciousness, you know, still has work to do and still has places to move. Then like there's a, there's a genuine recognition from within that, oh, you know, I fucked up here. This was, this was the wrong way. And so almost first and foremost, you know, it's like, you're probably like you're, you're, you're adjusting course within, then you're realizing how that impacts the other externally, you know? And so then the sincerity does come with it because you've genuinely grown and changed as a result of an action that led you down the wrong path. Yeah. I love that. But you have to also like, this is where inner work comes into play. You have to be able to connect to your own vulnerability. You know, like if you're someone because of life or because of conditioning or whatever, you've built up so many walls around your heart. Like the thought of even shedding a tear is so far into you. Like you're just not going to be able to relate at a certain level. And so when words come out of your mouth, they're not going to have the sincerity, the sensitivity, the depth of meaning that, you know, that they would have if you've, you know, done the inner work and you've self-reflected. If you allowed yourself to feel the pain of being a human being, you know, like life is hard. Yes, it's maybe harder for other people, but like no matter where you are on the spectrum, like you can be the poorest, you could be the richest. We're all fucking dealing with shit, man. Right. Like we're all, it's all relative. Like it's like no one's got it all figured out. Everyone has challenges. Everyone has issues. You have a psyche. You have a mind. Like you're dealing with stuff. [Speaker 1] (43:13 - 46:31) Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Like my dad always said, somebody is always, somebody, he used to say two things. No matter how good you are, there's always somebody better, which could be taken wrong. But the truth is, if you're always looking for someone out there that can teach you, then that's a great thing. There's someone who's already walked that path. The other side of that is there's always somebody who's got it worse. So in the midst, you can do it two ways. And understanding that, you know, my, my, I kind of gotten frustrated with this word, but my traumas as a kid, I had a great childhood. So my stuff is like here. And then somebody who was abandoned as a kid and all that, they got all sorts of more stuff to work through. That their, their trauma is maybe deeper, but my trauma to me still hits me in a way that puts me in a position to either feel like I got to fight or run away or whatever. We end up running through the same thing. So you're right. It's, it's learning and growing through that and being willing to face those demons in a sense. Because if we don't face those demons truthfully, we're going to put them on our children. As a dad, that's the thing for me is I'm, I know at the end of all things, I will go, man, I'm maybe I could have done that better, but I know now that I can say I did my best. There's probably stuff I could have done better, but I did the best I could every single day to grow and learn and become more so that I was a better example. And one of those things for me recently has been, if I don't go in and start facing the inner demons that I have, I'm going to pour those back on my own children and those demons then become their demons. And why don't I slay those before they have to deal with that? Yeah. Make it better for the next generation. What does that process look like for you? Um, that is going to be, I mean, I, I can tell you this back in the day, I went through therapy because I had a point in life where I, I wanted to kill myself. I had two children. I felt like my whole life was imploding and I wasn't good at anything. Uh, I just like all these thoughts that, I mean, I was living with my own, my own conversation in my head, feeling like nothing was working and all that. And, uh, and so for some of, for some people, it's going to be, you're going to need to go to therapy and talk that stuff out. I think that, I mean, it's June still, it's mental, it's men's mental health month. That is, that's something that we should be able to do. And I don't mean like normalized therapy or things like that, but being okay with talking that out, I think is a good thing. Again, humility and saying, I, I got some stuff I need to work through. I mean, it's, something's going to have to pull the trigger on that to make you do that. Whether that's a willingness to be humble or it's, you know, you lose a relationship and you, and they're like, I'm out because you just, you keep doing these things and you're hurting me. Um, I think it's reading books and being willing to learn from there. It's having conversations. My wife is an amazing woman and she is not afraid to tell me when I'm screwing up. I mean, and I don't mean she gets in my face yelling, but she's not afraid to be in my face and say, yo, this does not work. This doesn't work for me. This is not how I want to live. This isn't working for our, like, don't, don't do this to you. Don't do this to us. You need those people in your life for sure. Because that I think is where the work comes in. [Speaker 2] (46:31 - 47:13) Yeah. I think the big thing too is whatever things a person's turning to, to medicate, to self-medicate, to keep them from feeling the reality of their situation, like they just got to slowly start removing that because that's when the stuff's going to bubble up to the surface. And then you're going to actually feel the pain of your reality and go, oh shit, I need to change. But if you're drinking every night, if you're getting high every night, if you're jerking off to porn every night, if you're distracting yourself 24 seven, like you're not going to really get to feel what's really happening, which then that's going to act as the motivator to go, shit, I want to be a better husband. I want to be a better father. I want to be a better worker. Like I need to go to therapy. I need to do body work. I need to join a men's group and like freaking cry amongst my brothers, you know, whatever. [Speaker 1] (47:14 - 49:09) All of it. Yeah, absolutely. I leaned on, uh, I would say I lean on the physical side of that. I leaned over to tie my shoes one day. This was a few years back and I had to hold my breath. And I, I've not ever been like, like really, really fat, but I was fat enough that whatever gut I had was pressing in against all of my organs and my diaphragm plus any visceral fat that was sitting on there was crushing it. Whatever was happening. I'm trying to tie my shoes and I'm holding my breath. And I was like, you have got to be kidding me right now. So for me, that was a breaking point in the health world where I said I have got to do something to get rid of this because this is not the way I want to live or the way I want to be. And honestly, when I started pushing towards better health, it made me, it opened up better mental health, better spiritual health. It just became something where as I started to do that, other doors started to open to say, what about working here? What about working here? Until, you know, until it became a, I became a better husband and I became a better father, not because I went to the gym, but because going to the gym created a habit that also began to open them, my mind up to new things and new ways of looking at myself. Well, where else do I need work? Well, where else do I need work? And I honestly, if someone were to ask me, where, where do I start? I always point to the physical realm only because you only get one body and that body, the way it feels will change as you get more healthy, but it will also begin to change your mental state and all of those things. And so lots of things start to align when you start to see the physical side of yourself changing. Plus it's also, you can see the wins over time. If I stay consistent, I went from, you know, somewhat of a dad bod to like six pack and I'm cool with that. That's what I, so I saw something new and felt a win and it's nice to win, you know? And so then it just starts going from there, I think. [Speaker 2] (49:10 - 50:09) Yeah, man. I mean, you know, Joel and I, with the work that we do, we talk about self-esteem so often and like the act of going to the gym every day, like that's building self-esteem. You start seeing the result that builds self-esteem. So it's like the kind of person that's going to be someone who goes to the gym every day, you know, how does that then bleed into the other areas of their life? How does that bleed into how you think about yourself? You know? So yeah, man, I get it. I get it. I mean, I'm in a place now where like, I need, I need to like, I was athletic my whole life and I'm getting older now, you know, I'm 43 and I'm like not, I'm like the heaviest I've ever been personally. Like, I'm like, shit, like I bend over. I'm like, I got a little bit of a, a little bit of a gut, like, like, let me feel that, like, just, okay, what do I got to do about that? You know, I'm just an advocate of, you have to be able to feel pain, like the pain of your reality, the emotions and anything that's keeping you from doing that is keeping you from like your, your more ideal self and your growth. [Speaker 1] (50:09 - 51:58) Yeah, yeah. It's interesting because even like, as we're talking through this, I'm sitting here going, what, how do you get someone to that point? How do you get someone there? And I don't really know. I mean, there's plenty of people that are in this depressive state or frustrated with their life or whatever it is. And a part of me wants to be like, just, just go to the gym. But you know what? Inside them, they're like, I stay in bed because I don't want to get out of bed. And then when I get out of bed, it's only because I have to. And then I trudge through life. You know, every day is like Groundhog's Day. They just keep doing the same thing over and over again. And so sometimes I just, even in this conversation, I'm sitting here going, I don't know how you get somebody out of that. Other than just continuing to, if there's someone in your life, like loving on them and then being the example. And I always come back to that with a, if you want what I want, I, I didn't do anything weird to get it. I just started doing these normal, consistent things. And seriously, like we can say this, everything we have and everything we are as a result of consistency, right? It's not, it's, it's, we've created a consistency that doesn't serve us. Or we create a consistency that serves us. And those who are doing things that consistently are in like that consistency that's leading to not serving them usually leads to obesity and depression and bad relationships. And then they just keep medicating with whatever it is, whether that's drugs or porn or alcohol, or even if it's just like TV or novels, whatever it is to just shut off their brain and go into some other world. Like you said, they got to feel the pain of that so that then they can say, I got to make a change. And that point has, that'll hit at some point, but I don't know how you get somebody there other than being the example. So that way, when they're ready, they say, what do I have to do? [Speaker 2] (51:59 - 51:59) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (51:59 - 52:03) And then you just say, come with me, I guess, come to the gym with me, you know, start there. [Speaker 2] (52:03 - 53:52) That's like, you know, how do you teach someone to value their own life, their own livelihood, their own potential? You know, like, that's, yeah, it has to be a switch that turns on within being like, holy shit, I'm a living human being. I've got a life force running through my bones. Probably never gonna have this experience again. I've got a finite amount of time, you know, but also I have these incredible gifts and capacity and potential to create, to mold, to make the world a better place than when I first arrived in it. You know, it's like, so yeah, that begs the primordial question, like, why am I here? You know, why am I here? And ultimately for me, you know, it's to experience, you know, life to its fullest. It's to live up to my potential, you know, it's to reach that. And so if that then becomes the guiding force of my actions, then yeah, I'm gonna develop the consistent habits and behaviors in my life that are gonna lead me towards a more fulfilling existence in that regard. But, you know, the problem is, man, on the flip side of that, is that life is difficult. Life is hard. Life is, there's a lot of responsibilities, you know, especially in this day and age, you know, just even in trying to have the basic security and comfort necessary to get us to the point where we can build upon that, you know, but like we've been talking about, we have to feel the pain of that reality, you know, and like, I see many dads around me, you know, like the easy bypass is, you know, I just need to provide, you know, I'm too busy. All my bandwidth is absorbed just in having to provide for my family. So how do I even have the motivation to be anything more for my kids than just providing that base level. But then they trick themselves into thinking that, okay, as long as I'm providing that, then I'm doing my job. You know, it's more than that. You're more than just a provider. [Speaker 1] (53:54 - 55:47) Absolutely. Oh yeah. Then that actually kills me because they miss out on so much. I was there. I mean, I've lived there and I will say this, I'm constantly thinking I need to, I need to provide more. Like I want more things from life and my thing. And I think they're where I come from, or at least the age range that I'm in, you know, like I'm 43 as well, like two days into 43. So it's one of those things where, and I feel great. I feel like I'm a better man now. Like my 43 year old self could kick my 23 year old's ass. It's fantastic. But what I can say is it felt like guys that were, there were all the time at the office and we don't live like that anymore. You know, we can be, we can, we can be on our phones, which is just as bad, but they, they're like, I have to provide. So I go to the office, I'm there all hours of the day. And then you have the cats in the cradle, right? Where like that song is such a reality that we live that. And then we don't create this relationship with our children. And when, when we want the relationship, as our life is coming down to a close or coming into the twilight time, our kids don't want to be around us because they didn't ever have a relationship with us. So guys that think all I got to do is provide, they're missing out on so much of life. Truthfully, when, when people talk about their parents, they don't talk about how much money dad made. You know, they talk about the time we went here. Do you remember when we went to camping or whatever it is that one time that the dad decided he was going to do something with his kids? His kids will talk about that for years, but they will really, it'll be like a side comment. Like, I mean, sure. We had a great, we had a great life, but like we always had money and we always got to go be with things, but it'd have been nice to hang out with dad more. And that's kind of the way I see it in my head. So I'm just like, yeah, I want to provide and I want to do those things, but I definitely want to make sure I'm connecting and actually being engaged in their life as well. [Speaker 2] (55:48 - 56:36) I think, I think there's such a cognitive dissonance that arrives, that arises when we like, look back on our upbringing personally, because, you know, what was embedded in me growing up, like I'd either, you know, I, in my opinion, I have pretty good parents, you know, I had a pretty good upbringing, pretty good childhood, but it's still this cognitive dissonance, where it's like, you just need to be grateful, just be grateful for everything, no matter what, you know? And in that place, you don't really question the shortcomings. I think it's very painful and difficult for most people to actually look back on their childhood. And, you know, even see mom and dad as not perfect or see them as infallible and see flaws there. I think it's the unwillingness to kind of address that, that kind of, you know, means that we don't really change our shit when we become parents ourselves. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (56:37 - 57:44) Yeah. That's, that's huge. That's huge. I will say too, though, I think that as people are going, if there are people that are going through that, what they'll do is sometimes throw the baby out of the bathwater. I did a thing saying like, oh, hey, I'm older now. So now I'm wiser. So ask me anything on my stories yesterday. And one of them was, you talk about breaking cycles a lot. Tell me something that your parents did right. And I almost felt bad because I'm thinking, I like you guys, we, we had a great upbringing. We, my, my parents were loving and like good. So there's lots of good things. And so to hear them say, you know, to hear them say something like, what's one thing they did? Right. I'm, it makes me sad because I'm like, man, they did great things. So let me share those with you. You know, like there's, you don't have to throw the baby out of the bathwater when you're trying to break cycles. Yeah. You know, my dad said things or did things that needed work that I don't want to do for my kids. So I'm going to, you know, change how that is. But man, we had dinner every night at the table. And that's massive truthfully. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's such, that's such a big deal that people don't do anymore. You know? [Speaker 2] (57:45 - 58:42) Yeah. That's a, that's a good segue into that. Just what's happening to the family system, you know, and, and our society and our culture. And like, they don't, people aren't eating together. People aren't eating the same food, the nourishment. People aren't eating food that's being cooked at the home with the energy of the person that's cooking that, cooking the food, you know? Like if you think about like, you know, the food, you eat your food, you digest it. It's into your body. It becomes a part of you. And then like, no one's eating the same food. Everyone's in their own little world. No one's connected. Like, what does that do to a family system? You know, on a much more esoteric level. And like, those are some of my greatest memories. I mean, my mom was like old school Greek who cooked amazing food. Like I loved sitting, sitting down, you know, to, to eat with them. Now they were a little hardcore. Like you couldn't get up unless you finished all the food in your, on your plate. You know, it's all good. But, but yeah, I feel like these days now, like that's just not happening a lot, you know? Yeah, there's, there's definitely- You said it. [Speaker 1] (58:42 - 59:27) You go, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. No, no, you go. You said it. I loved what you said there. Cause I didn't actually think about that till you just said it, but you talked about how the love that they poured into the food. And dude, man, I am, I am big time on quantum physics, like energy, like that is totally true. Like, oh, this was made with love. That is truly an ingredient that goes into the food when mama's making food for her kids that it might not make it taste better, but you're right, energetically. Oh my gosh. There's so much that, there's so much that, that I can't explain because I'm not that kind of guy, but I can say, I guarantee that that's happening. Like the love inside of what mama's doing when she's making them food is transferring to them and becoming part of them. And that's, that's bad-ass. [Speaker 2] (59:28 - 1:00:38) Again, and again, is there energetics of food, energetics of connection. We're all in the same environment, consuming this food, laughing in, in close vicinity to one another, connecting, like not just via touch, but just energetically. And like that gets lost, you know, and more people are spent connecting to their devices, which is another thing I want to get your take on as a parent versus connecting with one another. But how, well, Joel, Joel, did you want to say something first? Yeah, I like this, where this was going. So like how in the world that we live in now, because technology is not going away. I mean, we're in technology now. We're having conversations. You have a business with technology, Instagram, all this stuff. And people who understand technology as we go forward, especially the young kids, they're going to have some advantages. So how do you balance that time? I know you mentioned earlier having some windows, but how do you navigate that? Like what's the right amount of time? Like if your kid's really into technology, really into games, and maybe wants to make a career out of it, how do you then go like, well, no, because we need to live a natural life, even though the kid's like lit up by like pulling apart computers and putting together and designing video games. You know what I mean? Like I'm just, yeah, I'm curious your thoughts on that. [Speaker 1] (1:00:39 - 1:03:58) I love that. We actually have like, we have a two hour window, which I'm sure crunchier parents are going to be like, oh my gosh, Nate, that's way too much time. But we have a two hour window. I actually gave my older, my oldest one, obviously 19, he's on his own. He's a grown man. So I don't, I don't monitor that or anything like that. But when he was in the house, I told him cause he was really in, he said he wanted to be a YouTuber and all of those things. And I just said, all right, man. And he's like, well, how am I supposed to do that with two hours? And I said to him, if you show me by getting the account and like, I'll help you get the account. And then you start creating videos and you start producing and you start doing it. Dude, I'm going to give you time. That's a, that's, you're creating something. That's huge. So why would, why would your consumption time be used for production time? Right? So I gave him the window. Now he didn't take it and that's okay. He went a totally different direction, which is totally fine. But if he had said, I want to be a YouTuber and I've already started, I've already started. And I'm, and I'm making video. If he was doing that, he would have had more time. I would have all, I would have given him more time because that was not where he's consuming it. And I think that's where the problem comes in is not being able to stop consumption and not being able to regulate that on your own. So even, even grown men, right? We sit down and we're like, oh, I'm, I got nothing to do and I'm scrolling. That's another one of those things people do to escape the pain of the life that they're in. But if you are able to say, like for us, there are no screens at the table. Like I, my phone is away from the table. If it rings, it rings. I mean, we had one time, one of our, one of my wife's best friends lives down the street and she always calls me because my wife hardly ever answers. And it's for just, cause she doesn't have her phone on her all the time. But it rang like multiple times to the point where she came to our house. She's like, I've been calling. Why aren't you answering? And I was like, we're eating and we don't have our phones when we eat, yo. Like what's wrong with you? So even now when the 19 year old, when Zeke comes home and sits down at the table to eat with all of us, he knows phones. Like we don't have our phones at the table. It's just a hard and fast rule. If I get it, my children have the right to be like, dad, no phones at the table. They have the right to tell me that because that is a hard and fast rule in our house. And so I don't, I'm not supposed to cross that line either. Um, if, uh, but you know, one thing I've heard is if you put a time limit on your kids and then you put a screen lock thing on it, where that happens, where it shuts down when, when their time's off. Now it's you and your kid against the screen time. Like, oh man, screen time's over. That sucks. Well, what can you do now? As opposed to sitting there and saying, you've been on your screen too long. You got to shut it off. That just creates dissonance and frustration. So putting some of those things into place are extremely important. My daughter's been asking for Snapchat and I really don't have a good reason. I hope she doesn't hear this. I don't have a good reason for saying no right now, but I just got this gut feeling that I don't want her to have it. I don't like it. And so from, from my standpoint, I'm literally holding onto it because I'm like, something doesn't smell right about Snapchat for me. And I'm, I'm worried. And because of that, my job is to protect. So I'm sitting here going, I feel like as it's a protection thing for me, at least at this point. And so I think it's being able to say no to ourselves and then putting boundaries on stuff like that, that even for ourselves. [Speaker 2] (1:03:59 - 1:04:03) Yeah. Your daughter is one of the most avid listeners of the Hear for the Truth podcast. We'll have to edit that part out. [Speaker 1] (1:04:03 - 1:04:20) No, don't hear this, please. She'll repost stuff. I guarantee she'll listen and be like, I knew it. You have no reason. And then I'll be in big trouble because I got no reason for real other than I'm nervous about it. [Speaker 2] (1:04:20 - 1:05:12) I love it. Yeah. How did your relationship change with your wife partner since having children? And how did you navigate continuing to, I guess, nurture that relationship on top of now being a father? Because I feel like one of the biggest things that I've seen men and fathers navigate when they first have kids, is they're not prepared for how that relationship is going to shift so radically and so completely. You're not getting all her attention anymore, man. You're not her everything anymore. And I feel like there's a big loss that happens for the dad in that period because particularly early on, the dad can't be everything to a newborn. His role is very much so different to what the mother's is at that point. And then she's all absorbed with the baby. And yeah, the relationship changes and shifts. [Speaker 1] (1:05:13 - 1:07:57) Yeah, absolutely. My dad used to say, you bring home two strangers because you have a kid you've never met. And now you have a woman who you have no idea what she's going to be like, and not in a bad way, just things are different. So it's all about relearning. That's kind of been something that's been in my head the whole time really. It's just okay, well, how do I re-meet her and fall in love with who she is now and kind of go through that? I think that being involved as a dad and the newborns and tons of guys are like, newborns, I don't know what to do with them. And I'm sitting here going, newborns are the best. All they want to do is sleep, put them on your chest, take a nap. And you just were like a badass dad. Great job. You know what I mean? Like you just took a nap, but you win. You know, that's awesome. So being as involved as you can in that process, plus your bonding and all the things, they're picking up your smells. They're hearing you talk. All of those things are great, especially with newborns. And then you just have a better relationship as they get older because you've bonded and they've bonded with you. It's beautiful. As far as wifey, yeah, man, I think that's tough. It's hard because there is a loss there. I think you're spot on with how you put that there. It's not that she doesn't want to give you attention, but the baby can't live or survive at all without you guys. And she's going to be more apt to do that. Just because I think chemically and cellularly, things change in our wives or our partners when they have a baby and it makes them, it brings out the mama bear in protecting. But you also hear about mom's intuition. I mean, I posted something about the mama bear and I've had plenty of women message in and say, oh my gosh, yeah, I had this feeling that my 26 year old son was in danger or something was going on and I called him and he had just been in an accident or like weird stuff that moms just, they just know it's crazy. There's this whole point of being able, again, maybe it just comes back to humility. I'm not the center of the universe and I need to support all that's going on. This is a new kid in our house, a new baby in our house. My wife is trying to figure this out at the same time. I think it's patience and humility because if you're in it for the long haul and you want to make that happen, you're just going to learn how to love her differently and more as it goes. I can tell you right now that there are times where I fall in love with my wife all over again as she's being a mom. And so I would encourage guys to watch your wife or your girlfriend or your spouse. Watch her be a mom. I guarantee you, you will fall in love with her more. I think that that's what happens. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:08:01 - 1:08:33) And how do you keep the romance alive within that system? Because particularly when you're consciously parenting, we're not outsourcing our kids to anyone. My parents or her parents, very, very rare would they even be with our kids without us. I don't really trust that that much personally. So it's like, how do you keep that connection? How do you keep that spark in the midst of all that? [Speaker 1] (1:08:35 - 1:10:22) Yeah, I think honestly, dude, that's just so bad. She's going to be so mad at me. Honestly, I think if you're out away from each other, you're out doing stuff. I mean, sexting is okay with your partner. So let's do it, right? Tell her how hot you think she is and tell her things, all of that and to a level. And this may not be within the first eight weeks of having a kid because the touching and sex and things like that can't actually happen very easily just because she's healing and all of those things. But just being able to... I mean, when she was nursing and we'd be sitting on the couch, our youngest, she is a handful. And so it was a lot of her attention was drawn away. So we'd sit on the couch and I just put my foot on hers, just trying to touch her, right? That's all it is, just touching in some way, shape or form. We're the same way. We don't have parents around that we can give our kids to them and trust them. And so that doesn't happen very often. But when it does, being able to connect, going out and hanging out, trying to be intentional about that. This might sound crazy, but we still try to do it like we're teenagers kind of thing. So try not to get caught. I'm not saying like voyeuristic where our kids are gonna come in. But I mean, if we're downstairs and something goes on, the kids are in bed, why not, right? I mean, keep it hot, do it. I don't know, you kinda gotta figure it. I mean, our daughter slept in our bed since she was born. I mean, I had this wonderful crib set up and she's never slept in. In fact, I'm giving it away because none of our kids are ever gonna, if I have any more, they're not gonna sleep in it either, right? So it was just like, well, she's just taking up the whole bed. Well, I guess we're going to the floor. It's totally fine. And that's further on in it, not maybe a couple of weeks out. [Speaker 2] (1:10:23 - 1:10:28) So did you have, I'm just curious, like how many kids with your first wife? [Speaker 1] (1:10:28 - 1:10:34) My older two are from my first marriage. And then my younger three are with my wife, my current wife. [Speaker 2] (1:10:34 - 1:10:50) How is that? Because I feel like, you know, it's part of life. It happens. I've had conversations with people, like when families either combine or you have new kids and dealing with your ex and all that goes in. And then your current wife dealing with your, you know, being stepmom, like what's that like? [Speaker 1] (1:10:50 - 1:12:58) Yeah, it's messy, man. Oh, it's so messy. And she's badass. Like I love her so much because she tries so hard to make sure she's not trying because she's not trying to step on their mom's toes, right? She's not trying to step in and be their mom. But she also never wanted the older two to feel like she didn't care. And she's like, you know, you're mine. So she'll say that you're mine, whether you're mine from my own womb or not, you're mine. So I'm going to treat you the way I would treat all of mine that came out of me. And she tries to do that to the, like she doesn't know how to not do that. And that has actually caused more pain, I think, to her than even to them because she'll like, she'll suffer in silence wanting to be the mom they need. When that's necessary, but also knowing that they are going to gravitate towards their mom anyways. And so it's been messy and difficult. We've had, I mean, we've had some hard, hard times. I can say this, they're my oldest city. He wanted to make some changes in his life. And so he's like, I want to have a family meeting. And so he came over and his mom came over. I mean, we all had a family meeting yesterday so that he could tell us all these new things he wanted to do with his life and how he wanted to make some changes, which is great. And we actually get along pretty well. We're one of the weird ones. And we always said that if we're weird, like if kids could say, if kids, if our children's friends said, wait, that's your step mom and that's your dad. And if they could do that and say, wow, I wish my parents could do that. Or if they could say, that's really weird that they get along, then we've done something okay. But that's not to say it hasn't been a ton of work on her. I think she's, my wife has had to work the hardest in that because she's honestly with the older two and my ex-wife, she's the odd one out, right? Like they have their mom and their dad and then how does she fit? It's, I mean, that's a lot of work. I can't answer that for her, but I know that I've seen the pain and the struggle she's had on that to be the best bonus mom she can be, you know? [Speaker 2] (1:12:59 - 1:13:22) Yeah, I mean, my dad had two children before my mom married him, just left Greece to come to the U.S. and be with my dad. And I know that she faced her challenges of trying to come in and be mom and obviously it was more old school back then. So there were definitely difficulties. But yeah, thanks for asking that because I think it's something that not a lot of people talk about and it's something that happens. [Speaker 1] (1:13:23 - 1:15:07) Absolutely, yeah, not a problem at all. It's, I'm not, I always, I talk about them as my, like obviously they're all my kids and she sees it that way. So there's sometimes, I try to bring that up at times because I don't want people to feel like I'm trying to hide that at all just because there is a whole messy side of life that came through there, you know? And that's, again, when we started out, I was like, I got married at 20. I would give advice not to do that, not because of anything other than I really didn't know where I was going or what I was doing. And we didn't, that wasn't a good mesh. It wasn't good. Now, I believe that my older two are supposed to be here. That was the only way that was gonna happen, especially with my upbringing and all that. So they were supposed to be here. My younger three, they're supposed to be here. So all that has happened has had to be the way it is because of the life choices I've made. And so in that, there's no shame in whatsoever in where I live in all of this because, I mean, this is the path I've walked. And honestly, there's been, I've actually had people reach out and say, hey, what do I do about this? What do I do about that? And in regards to their relationships, and I will say, this is my life. This is how I've lived. If that changes the way you feel about the advice I'm gonna give you, totally okay with me, but you just need to know this is where I come from. So when I give you the advice, it's coming from that place. And I don't know. People have just said it makes me more credible and I'll take that. I mean, and for those who say, yeah, I don't wanna listen to you for that reason, that's okay too. I mean, listen to somebody who's been married one time and stuck with that person. That's badass too. I mean, you know, I forget who it was that they said something. Somebody recently had said they were married for like 54 years. I mean, that's massive. How does that, like people, you don't hear that very often anymore. So props to those two. You know? Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:15:08 - 1:15:34) Man, I'm, you know, nothing but, I must respect bro for being, you know, riddled with yourself and riddled with the world, man. Like how else, you know, how else can you be integrity if you can't own, you know, the entire path, you know, the, you know, the messiness and the highlights. You know, it's all part of the reality that's, you know, formed you into the human being that you are today. So thanks for that. Absolutely. What are you most proud of? [Speaker 1] (1:15:39 - 1:17:04) Um, that's a great question. I guess I would say I'm proud of where things are going in the sense of in my life, what I see in my kids and my marriage and how we are, like, I'm actually, I can literally say, I'm, I'm content. I'm, I'm content with how my life is and that I'm also like discontent in that sense of saying I want to keep going and keep growing. So I'm, I'm proud of the fact that I'm, from, from a personal standpoint, I'm proud of the fact that I'm okay with being where I am and wanting to learn more and become more. When it comes to, when it comes to life in general, man, I, I was my oldest because he's in college and where he's, what he's doing and work. He's working at a, he works at, at a grocery store right now. And I went in there and I just asked if they knew who he was. I don't know what happened, but that she said something and saw a couple of the kids. And I said, well, do you know Zeke? And she's like, oh my gosh, I wish all of the kids, I wish everybody was like Zeke. And there's a huge level of pride that says, man, I was, I was participant in that. I didn't do that because he's made the choices to be the man that he's becoming. But man, there's a lot of pride in being able to say, I got one out of the house and he's doing all right. And, and my other ones are, are, are following that same trajectory. And I'm, I'm excited about that. [Speaker 2] (1:17:05 - 1:18:51) Awesome, man. That's beautiful, man. It's so funny. Like we started this conversation, you know, talking about, you know, like, it just blows my mind how we consider like adults, like 18, 19, 20, 21, you know, like, bro, like, I think back on my own life, man. And like every step along the way, like somehow you trick yourself into thinking like there's maybe nothing more to learn, you know, I know everything, I know it. But it's like, dude, I was a kid, man. Like I would not trust that person to make decisions like at all. And like, for me, just in my own personal experience, real adulthood for me didn't start to like 29, 30, you know, even maybe a touch later that I start getting to the place where I'm like, okay, I'm a human being. This is life. There's challenges. There's responsibilities. And like, this all falls on me. Like there's no one coming to save me. There's no one coming to prop me up. There's no one coming, you know, to put money in my bank account or to build healthy relationships for me. You know, like this, this, this is, this is me. And only then did I really begin to turn my gaze and be like, okay, what, what needs to be done? You know, but it's like, you have to parent yourself for, you know, there's an in-between period where like you're parenting yourself. You know, it's like, how do I become a capable, responsible, self-reliant human being that's of value to the world? And it's just an interesting thought to feel like, you know, we hand over this title of adulthood between 18 and 21. It's such a misdemeanor. [Speaker 1] (1:18:52 - 1:19:55) Oh man, it's so scary. And I'll say it to my oldest. I'll be like, you know, you're an adult. And I do the air quotes just to mess with him. And he's like, dad, you know, you said I'm an adult. That kind of thing. I just, it's just so funny because like I totally love, I mean, we have a good relationship where there's a lot of joking and a lot of messing around. And I love that. But that is one where I'll always air quote. I'm like, you know, he's an adult and I air quote it just to mess with him. But you're right. I mean, at 18, I thought I had it all locked. Honestly, at 24, I was 23 when Zeke was born. I thought I had that figured out. You know, every time I have a birthday, I look at it and go, I probably didn't have that. I think we'll get to the full end and be like, nah, I thought I had it. I probably didn't figure that much out anyways. That's so much more could have been, like could have learned and all of that. But you're right, man. Scarily, I wonder if I really turned the corner. Even just a couple of years ago to say that, oh, wow, this really falls on me. I got lots of responsibilities. I should start stepping up and doing something. [Speaker 2] (1:19:57 - 1:20:44) It's just more affirmation, man. Your journey is yours. My journey is mine. Joel's journey is his. I can't imagine what it would be like if I had a kid at 23. Now I didn't, and you did. And so you're living your journey. You're going the path you're going. And I just think more and more people just need to reclaim their lives. This is mine. Yes, I can look externally for some guidance and mentorships and support, but at the end of the day, I'm looking in the mirror. I'm there at night before I close my eyes and I'm by myself with my thoughts, whatever. It's just me. What do I need to do to be the man, the person, the husband, the father that I want to be? And you got to take it. You got to take all those experiences that came before that have shaped you into who you are and just keep going and keep going and take full ownership, man, of your life. [Speaker 1] (1:20:44 - 1:21:54) Yeah, that excites me. I know that there are people that it doesn't, that they feel like the weight of that, but that really excites me. What do I want out of life? How can I be the best version of me and impact the most people to see their lives enhanced? That excites me, you know? And so you're right. Like you got to own your own stuff. And as you do that, you're going to be able to impact more and more people. And you're going to, like, there's just so much about this life that is beautiful, that is amazing, and we get to live it. That's so huge that, I don't know, that hits me in a way where I'm like, yes, let's live life. It's amazing. And I know that years ago, I had this whole part of my life where I'm going, I should just end it. I mean, that'd probably be better for everybody. But I really am. I'm at a place in life where I look back and I'm like, oh, it's so sad. I don't want that for anybody because there's so much to live for. There's so many beautiful things. And there's so much to do and be. Oh, like, what a great privilege to be here and in this time where I can get. I mean, are you in Australia or where are you at? [Speaker 2] (1:21:55 - 1:22:11) Man, originally, I'm from Sydney. Recently, I relocated my entire family to Mexico, actually. But currently, I'm in your guest house. I mean, I'm in California right now, just visiting him. But we're going back to Mexico tonight. So, yeah. I got you. [Speaker 1] (1:22:11 - 1:22:25) But like that right here, like this in such a time as this, we're able to have the technology we have to do this and affect a lot. Like, that's so amazing to me that this is something we get to do. How awesome is that? This was not even an option in the 80s, you know? [Speaker 2] (1:22:27 - 1:22:29) We're hanging out playing Nintendo, bro. That's about it. [Speaker 1] (1:22:30 - 1:22:31) Yeah, exactly, exactly. [Speaker 2] (1:22:32 - 1:22:47) That's so funny. Yeah, no, I love it, man. It is a gift to be able to do what we do. And again, to utilize technology to benefit, you know, others. You know, like, what kind of conversations can we have? How can we inspire people? How can we empower people? Not just, hey, how can we distract people? [Speaker 1] (1:22:47 - 1:22:47) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:22:49 - 1:22:50) It's a tool, man. [Speaker 1] (1:22:50 - 1:23:03) I see that, honestly, with your podcast, honestly, like looking through some of the podcasts you guys have done. And I love it. It's here for the truth. That's what you guys are doing. You're affecting lives and changing people's hearts and minds. That's massive. I love that. [Speaker 2] (1:23:04 - 1:24:39) Thank you, brother. Technology is a tool, man. And, you know, in the hands of the human being who values being productivity, then he's going to use that tool to impact and to increase the leverage of the impact that he can have. But, you know, in the hands of someone who's more inclined to, you know, towards self-sabotage and self-loathing, then it's going to have a different effect on that human being psyche. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, it's like we mentioned, like it's never going away. It's only going to become more complex. And ultimately, I want my children to be equipped to be able to utilize it. You know, what's most important is how they feel about themselves, because that's going to determine their relationship with it at the end of the day. Because I think the common theme throughout this entire conversation, we spoke about self-esteem earlier, but there's nothing that we do in our lives that's unaffected or untouched by how we feel about ourselves, you know, which is why it's so freaking important, you know, to be healthy, to hit the gym consistently, to be productive, to see your own creations come into fruition, you know, because that affects how I am as a father. That affects how I am as a husband. You know, if I'm not creating time for myself to be productive and to give value back to myself, then everything else around me, you know, becomes less as a result as well. So, Nate, we're kind of moving towards the end of this, conversation. And I guess my question for you now is like, what is your personal mission? What is your mission? [Speaker 1] (1:24:41 - 1:26:49) Yeah, it's been interesting because I can say that I have a, I have this thing in my bedroom that has this crowd of people and you see the vision from the stage. And I had this vision in my mind way back in the day. I used to be a pastor and it was a very small church that I started. And I remember sharing that with some people. And in the church world, sometimes that comes across as like arrogant. And well, what if that's not God's life plan for you or whatever? And I have it on there now. And it says the vision inside me was placed there on purpose. And so I really, it's shifted from affecting people. I want to affect them spiritually. I want them to see this God that I've connected with, even outside of the church, to be able to say, wow, this is how I understand this universe or like source, however you want to call it, that that is something. And it's amazing. But for me, that's affecting dads and creating the connection where there's been disconnection. I just want to see dad, I don't want to see dads come to the, what I, I don't want them to come to the end of their time with their sons and daughters in their house and regret what they, how they were. What I want to see them do is learn from my mistakes and learn from what I'm learning to become the best father they can be. And that seriously, it comes back to how do you become the best version physically, mentally, spiritually, relationally. I want to affect men across the globe that way, because I guess I think that the traditional way of fatherhood has been so disconnected from our children. And man, we have so much more to offer our kids. And there's so much we can do. And there's so much joy that comes from hanging out with them. Like I tear up when I think about my kids. They don't think I cry, but man, like when I think about them, that's the waterworks for me because they're so amazing. And dads need to see that in their own kids and enjoy it. Yeah. Sure. [Speaker 2] (1:26:50 - 1:29:00) There was in early 2021, I want to say, I went out to the ocean by myself, you know, and it was quite a windy, turbulent morning. You know, there was a bit of a rip. I'm like, oh, I'll be right. You know, I jumped in there. I was playing around, you know, clearing my mind, doing my thing. Then eventually I realized, oh, shit, like I'm stuck. I'm stuck in a rip here now, you know. And there's no one on the beach. No one can see me. The waves are higher than anyone can see. I didn't really have experience with being in rips, you know, at this point in time either. And, you know, I came to the stark reality that, you know, I'm probably going to die here. No, there's no one around me. It's like 6.30am in the morning. And like having that moment, having that experience, the only thing that really washed over me was the guilt of them growing up without me, you know, of not being there for them. Like more than anything, that's the thing that was just fucking tugging on my heart, you know, like I'm not going to go walk back. I'm not going to walk back to my house. They're not going to see that again, you know. And you're right, man. That's the thing more than anything else, which, you know, brings up the emotion in me is like not getting to be with them, not getting to hang out with them, not getting to see them, not getting to, you know, see their little quirks and see how they develop and, you know, just have conversations with them. And it's such a privilege and it's such a gift. And I think there needs to be so much intention into going into this journey of being a father because we're talking about a life, a life that is going to form and mold very much so based on its interactions with you, you know, and yeah. Anyway, it's just obviously I left you in a cliffhanger, but I just started screaming my ass off, you know, there's nothing else to do. I couldn't swim anywhere. I was exhausted. I just finished exercising as well. I started screaming my ass off, man. Then there was a surfer that came from behind me. You know, this was cloudy, gray skies. It came from behind me. He grabbed me and he goes, good screaming, man. Most people don't even get to that point. He just put me on the surfboard, sent me back to shore. [Speaker 1] (1:29:02 - 1:29:10) Dude, that's amazing. Yeah. I mean, you were supposed to be back, you know, that's the way that is. You were supposed to be back in. You had more to do. [Speaker 2] (1:29:11 - 1:29:38) Yeah, man. That was a huge turning point for me in my life in terms of, you know, just responsibility, you know, like valuing the fact that I exist. You know, now I value life. Now I value the fact that I exist. Now I value, you know, every conversation I get to have with my kids. You know, I value everything that I get to produce in this world because, you know, I know how close that was to actually being taken from me. And what else is there to do, man? But, you know, yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:29:40 - 1:29:45) Yeah, no, I love that, man. It puts you on the path where you are right now. And that's awesome. That's massive. [Speaker 2] (1:29:46 - 1:30:07) Yeah. Nate, bro. It's such a pleasure, man. Yeah, it's so awesome to connect with you, bro. So awesome to hear your story and get to be in your energy for the past 90 minutes. I know our audience, definitely, we've got a huge value from this conversation. Just in closing, I guess, what are you up to? How can people connect with you? You know, if you have anything you're offering right now, just let our audience know. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:30:08 - 1:31:40) Yeah. When I hung out with Ryan Mickler on The Order of Man, I'm writing a book. I'm working on that. So I'm still in the stages of that and getting that going. I'm working on trying to create some more stuff online to just make sure, you know, however, because, you know, you get 90 seconds on a reel. This is the stuff I enjoy because you can get a lot deeper. And so I'm working on doing a few more things, hopefully by September, to see those out and going. And so I'll keep people up to date on that. As far as interacting with me, the number one place is still Instagram at Dads Don't Babysit. Dads underscore don't underscore babysit. I just, to my own chagrin, I just popped onto TikTok to try and do the same and just have another avenue of doing that. So it's there. But I love when guys, especially when new dads or guys that are getting ready to be dads message in, like, hey, man, what do I do? I love that stuff, man. If I can, if guys are messaging me, asking about being a dad in my DMs, that is like the best day ever. So that's where people can catch me. I'm answering everything I can to make sure that people just, they know that I want to connect with people. That's the biggest thing to me is it's a huge honor and a privilege to have people that want to follow you and hear what you have to say. And so I take that very serious because it's important to me that anything I can say to help somebody else gets said to them. And so connect with me there. But yeah, book on the way. And then I'm working on some stuff to be more online as well. [Speaker 2] (1:31:42 - 1:32:44) Well, it's such a pleasure connecting with you, man. I love your sincerity and how genuine you are and just keeping it real, man. I really appreciate you. Wish you nothing but the best. You, your whole family and everything you got going on, man. I'm happy we connected. Yeah, thanks, guys. I love this. This is great. Thank you so much. And to everyone listening, thank you. And we'll see you next time. Take care. What a classic conversation. What an incredible dude. You know, love being able to have dialogues like that with just sincere human beings, you know, who mean so well. Just in closing, I just want to remind everyone that this is the final week to apply for Rise Above The Herd, our eight-week group coaching program, specifically for truth seekers to step into freedom, potential, purpose, and authentic self-esteem. So if you feel the call, there are a few spots left. You can head to riseabovetheherd.co and submit an application to jump on board this next round, which starts July 10. And to be perfectly honest, we're not sure when we're going to run this program again. So, you know, now is as good a time as ever. Thanks for listening. Thanks for the support. We'll see you next time.