Lara J. Day The Hidden History of Holidays

(0:00 - 0:13) Coming up in this episode. Whatever is most important to a culture will be reflected in its holidays in the way that we celebrate. But they're also informing the younger generations how to be in the culture. (0:14 - 0:22) So it is a really powerful tool. And those in power have always known this. And that's why they've intentionally used it as a tool to guide and manipulate the masses. (0:23 - 2:07) You are now listening to the Year for the Truth podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Yerasimos. All right, everybody, welcome back to the Year for the Truth podcast. I'm Joel Rafiti. I've got my co-host Yerasimos with me as always. What's up, everybody? Thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. Thank you for taking time out of your day or your night or whatever you might be doing, whether you're watching or listening to this podcast. We just really appreciate the fact that there's people that are interested in these conversations and are willing to be here. So Yerasimos and I are going to try something new here. We're going to have a mini conversation before the main conversation and just kind of shoot the shit a little bit. We've gotten some feedback over the years that people do really appreciate our personal insights and our personal conversations and our perspectives. So heads up, you can completely skip this section if you want to. We're probably going to have a five or six-minute conversation here. You may miss some gold. You may miss some laughs. I don't know. I can't tell you in advance. I don't know what's going to happen here. But you're welcome to stay and hang out with us before we bring on the awesome Lara Jay Day to discuss, I guess, the esoteric origins of some of the most important holidays that we kind of perceive and practice today, and her realizations and the power of seas that can be planted during what she calls the 13 Holy Nights over the Christmas period, which really is the darkest and most still period, at least in the Northern Hemisphere. It would be flipped for the Southern Hemisphere. But yeah, anyway, how are you, bro? Yeah, I'm doing pretty well. (2:08 - 2:37) I also just want to extend my gratitude to everyone that's listening. You know, what started as just pressing record on Zoom one day and having a conversation has evolved into this 250-plus episodes. And I think it just initially makes me think of curiosity and how I remain intensely curious about all the things that we converse about on these episodes. (2:37 - 4:58) And it's like, what is curiosity to the individual listening? I remember I had a teacher once who said that 50% of your job as a parent is to just keep that curiosity kind of alive in your child. And then you can kind of let go and let them live their life and be the individual that they are. And I just feel like sometimes this curiosity is beaten out of individuals and they lose that sense of excitement and wonder and an openness too about the magic that exists, about the information that's out there. I mean, when you really think of it, okay? I know we have our convictions and we have our knowledge and we have our beliefs, and that's great. But the reality of how much history there is, how much knowledge exists in this world that came before us and that will come after us, and to sit there and be so sure that you know everything. Even with these conversations, sometimes we get people that get highly triggered by the things that we're talking about, or they'll pop up into our DMs and call us conspiracy theorists. And it's like, how sure are you that you are correct? Really? With the mountains of books that exist that have been created over time, over thousands and thousands of years, I feel like that sense of excitement and wonder is something that drives me. I know that it drives you. And I feel like, to the person who's listening, I feel like it drives you as well. Yeah. I mean, just think about a pie chart, the shit that you know and the shit that you don't know. And it's like, the shit that you know would be so microcosmic. It would be so minuscule, less than 0.00001% of a pie chart of all the that exists. And what you know is nothing in the scheme of things. Yeah, I actually shared that pie chart recently on my stories. And I feel like there were three sections of it. Shit you know, shit you don't know, and shit you don't know that you don't know. And that takes up pretty much all of it. It's like, you don't even have the awareness of the things that you don't even know. Yeah. And I think that having that seed of curiosity is what moves you closer towards that. (4:58 - 7:35) It's like, man, what else don't I don't know? And then you learn something, you go, really? This? If this is true, then what else is out there that I'm not even aware of? And I feel like that's at the foundation of education, that within each of us, it's our birthright to learn, to evolve, to grow, to move beyond fixed limitations, things that have been passed down to us by culture, society, and family. Well, just think about how much conflict has been perpetuated under the guise of dogma, the guise of pretending to be certain, and then self-identifying with your own dogma. And then you basically morph into these rigid belief systems. And then anytime you come into tension or conflict, or you meet someone, where there's now belief-fueled identities challenged, you just completely flip and change as a person. Because you are, it feels like you're being challenged. It feels like you're being threatened. You've become so self-identified with these belief systems. And I was sharing the other day, basically, the core elements or idea out of Karl Popper's philosophy is that human knowledge is fallible. Certainty is a fallacy. And it's like, for me, my most core belief systems today, there's a part of me that is holding the knowing that at one point in time, in the future, and in any given moment, a new idea can come along that makes more sense and replaces whatever belief and idea I have today. So it's like we use the best of our knowledge to guide our lives, to guide our relationships, but it's also being able to hold the knowing that at any point in time, something can supersede this. And to me, that's actually magical. To me, that's incredible. Because without the possibility of a new idea, where is their growth? It ends. What, you think your work is done? You think there's nothing new to learn? Come on. What kind of existence is that? Yeah. I think this is a perfect segue to even in the conversation that we're about to have with Allara in regards to the attachment people have to holidays and what they believe they are and what they believe they came from, especially from a religious standpoint. But then when you really dive into things from a historical standpoint, you realize things are different. (7:36 - 8:50) Yeah, absolutely. I guess all I can say here too is to the audience is stay open and stay active with your mind and your thinking and really see where you are attached to your beliefs that if they were challenged, it would feel like your whole person is being challenged. I think that's a signpost where you need to take a step back and reflect and go, what is it about this that's getting me so triggered where I feel like my life is being threatened, even though just something I think or believe is being threatened? All right, guys, that wraps up our mini conversation to start this episode. Here is Lara J. Day. Lara J. Day is the author of the 13 Sacred Nights Oracle. She's on a mission to reclaim the hyper-commercialized holidays and return the soul to the solstice. Lara is also the creator of Neurogenic Qigong, her own unique and innovative healing method which interweaves Chinese energy medicine with tension and trauma-releasing neurogenic tremor work. Lara has been teaching energy arts since 2003 and is unspeakably grateful for her teachers and the chance to view this absurd and perfectly magnificent life from the energetic perspective. Lara, welcome to Here for the Truth. (8:51 - 12:05) Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. Yeah, absolutely. One way we always like to kick these conversations off with first-time guests on this podcast is we'd like to dive a little bit deeper into your personal hero's journey. What were the major rites of passage in your life, those key catalyzing moments that transformed your reality and led you down this vocational path into the study of the holidays, your Qigong work, etc.? Yeah. I kind of have the classic wounded healer story to tell in that three months after the birth of my daughter, who's now almost 17 years old, I tripped into chronic illness and tried so many things and couldn't seem to pull myself out of it. That was actually how I ended up meeting my Qigong teacher. Essentially, I had no idea what Qigong was. A friend of mine told me, I went to see this woman and she told me that I have foreign energy. I had no idea what foreign energy was, but I felt so crummy at the time. I thought, oh, I must have that. And so, I went to go see her as a client. She's this remarkable woman who just lives in the mystical, right? She was born into this world, having certain openness and skills and walking in a different reality than most of us. And so, I went to go see her as a client, having no idea what she did. I just thought, oh, foreign energy, I must have that. I feel terrible. Get it out of me. I walked away from that initial appointment. She hadn't touched me. It was all energy work. I felt so profoundly physically shifted. I remember thinking to myself, I feel like I've been breathing underwater and I didn't know it. All of a sudden, my head's above water and I can breathe again. I remember going to the grocery store after that initial appointment and I literally felt like I had a different view of the cash register, the same grocery store that they went to all the time. I thought, am I physically taller? There were legitimate actual physical differences in the way that I was experiencing myself and my body and the world. It was such a huge transformation with just a one-hour, hour and a half treatment that I immediately signed up for her four-year medical Qigong training. That was a huge moment of initiation for me and there were other all kinds of things along the way, but I would say that was really the biggest turning point for me. Yeah. That's amazing. I want to touch on Qigong a bit because we've had a couple people talk about it briefly as part of their story, but I'd love to delve a little bit more into what is Qigong, even for people that are watching that maybe aren't that familiar. Yeah. Qigong, Qi means life force energy, universal life force energy in Chinese. Then Gong is a good work or a practice. (12:05 - 16:59) Qigong is the good work or practice of cultivating universal life force energy. And there's two different, we'll say, areas. There's the personal practices, which look like what most people think of as Tai Chi, those really slow movements. Tai Chi is a martial art that is under the umbrella of Qigong. Again, the greater umbrella is the cultivation of universal life force energy. In the case of Tai Chi, it's a martial art in nature. Their focus is martial arts, although people practice Tai Chi for all kinds of reasons, but that's really at the root of the practice. It's a martial art in nature. There's those personal practices and the personal practices that I teach are more general. It's not a form of martial arts. It's really just for cultivating your health and your wellness and your overall well-being and harmony and spiritual development and that sort of thing. Then there's the clinical side of things, which is called either medical Qigong or Qigong healing. That's what I experienced with my teacher where I was lying on a massage table. I would say a sort of oversimplified way of describing it might be like classical acupuncture without the needles. Before they started putting needles in the meridian lines and the point systems along the meridian lines, they were working with the energy body simply with intention in their hands and moving energy in that way. Those are the two veins of Qigong. Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing. I'm very interested in the 13th sacred night oracle deck. How did your interest in the holidays develop? I guess, especially the esoteric kind of things, which not many people are really speaking about. Yeah. It actually goes back a good segue to my Qigong teacher because she's the one who introduced me to this practice, although it is not a Qigong practice. She is a very wonderfully open and divinely feminine in her approach to energy arts and the way that she teaches. She is also very steeped in the teachings of Rudolf Steiner and the anthroposophic community, and so this practice really was inspired by that community. Rudolf Steiner, he didn't really give an exact formula for the 13 holy nights or the 12 holy nights as they often call them in that community, but he really gave a greater teaching about this time, the winter solstice time. And if you stop and take a look at what nature is doing all around us during the peak of winter, trees have dropped their leaves, animals are slowing down or hibernating, plants and grasses and seeds have descended into the earth, and everything's kind of drawing energy inward, conserving energy. And then here we are in the northern hemisphere, at least at our most frantic, we're shopping compulsively, we're overindulging in sugar and alcohol, which is taxing the body as opposed to conserving energy, right? Our calendars for most people are more jam-packed than at any other time of the year, we're flooding our lawns with LED lawn light decorations, which is like a slap in the face to the darkness, like, no, it will not be dark, we will not dive inward. All this external distraction when really, if we were to mirror what nature is doing all around us and step into the flow and the rhythm of the seasons, it's this time to draw inward, to get quiet introspection, right? We're really planting our dream seeds in what I call the fertile soil of the darkness, or the womb of winter, so that they'll sprout in the spring and fully expand into the fullness of summer, right? Everything's blooming, we're living the dream that we planted in the darkness. And then in the fall, there's all that richness, we're harvesting the fruits of our labor, maybe you're deciding what you wanna throw on the compost pile, what you wanna keep for another cycle before diving back in for another cycle of seasons. So the practice, again, inspired by Rudolf Steiner, but he didn't necessarily give us the exact framework. And my teacher sort of made it her own, passed on to me what she came up with, and then I fluffed it out more, made it my own, and that's what I've presented in the Oracle Deck. So it's 13 nights leading up to Christmas, is that correct? So the practice actually starts on the winter solstice, the longest, darkest night of the year, right? Which is which day? So that's December 21st. Gotcha. (16:59 - 19:08) Yeah. And we have three initial days and nights to prepare, which looks like thinking about, well, what do I wanna bring to this next cycle? Or maybe you're taking a look back at the year past and sort of like, okay, well, how did that go? And what do I wanna change? And what do I wanna do different moving forward with this next cycle? And then kind of getting your ducks in a row for the actual 13 nights. So if you, for instance, if you wanna incorporate more meditation in your coming cycle, maybe you're just doing the kind of logistical work of gathering the meditations that you wanna do during the 13 nights or you're buying a meditation cushion or whatever it is. Or if you wanna be more active or cycle more, maybe you're getting your bicycle tires pumped full of air, like whatever it is that's gonna help you make those 13 days more intentional. And then the actual first sacred night falls at sundown on December 24th. And each 24-hour period from there forward, sundown to sundown, represents a time period in the coming cycle. So I love that it's sundown to sundown because again, we're always starting in the darkness. It's like the darkness is the beginning of a cycle, just like a new moon, right? Is the beginning of a new lunar cycle. Again, the winter solstice, now the darkest time of the year we're seeing as the beginning of a whole new cycle to come. And even that sundown to sundown, right? Is that we're going into the darkness and that becomes the incubation time for the following cycle. It's actually interesting to think about, because I don't know what people call that period between Christmas and New Year's, like colloquially, there's a phrase where people's like, no man's land, people don't know what to do. People don't really know what to do. It's like, okay, Christmas is done. And then they're waiting till they celebrate the new year and they're just kind of like sitting around. And it feels like, yeah, well, maybe they should be sitting around, but with more intention. There's a reason for it, as opposed to like, I'm twiddling my thumbs, I don't know what to do. I feel like a lazy person not doing anything. It makes sense. (19:08 - 19:26) Yeah. Well, here's the thing. If you go, if you look back and I've done so much research on the history of our winter solstice and then further diving into all of our holidays, but the winter solstice period or Christmas time even, it was Christmas tide at one point in history. (19:26 - 19:55) And it's always been a longer period of time in cultures around the world and all the way back into ancient times, ancient Egypt, all the different cultures. It was more like a two-week period. And there's the intercalary days that we talk about that are the days where the mismatch between the lunar and the solar calendars is often what these days are thought of as correlating to. (19:56 - 20:25) But there was one book, I loved the way he phrased it. He said that this celebration, this time that's been witnessed for eons has always been like a two-week period about more give or take. And then if you just celebrate Christmas and then kick off like, okay, we're done. He said, I forget exactly how he phrased it, but it was something like you're going to have a Christmas hangover or like a winter solstice hangover. It's like, wait, we're not done yet. We're still in this kind of sacred window and you can really feel it. (20:25 - 29:49) And I've been doing this practice now for 16 years. I learned it the year my daughter was born and I can genuinely feel a shift like in the air when these sacred nights begin. And I can also feel it when they end. And it's almost like there's just a stillness in the air that you can't quite tangibly put a word to, but you can feel it or you don't know how to describe it, but it's almost like the atoms in the air stopped spinning or something. Everything just feels there's a presence. Yeah. And there's a really sacred presence to it. And I noticed now even the day after the last sacred night, I'll go to sit down and do my morning meditation and my mind's just a little bit more busy and a little bit more obnoxious and it's sort of bittersweet. Like, oh man, yeah, right. We're not in the window anymore. So, I guess I'm speaking to the obvious a little bit, but this is different for the Southern Hemisphere, right? Yes. No, absolutely. And because it's about aligning with nature, not these arbitrary calendars and schedules that we modern humans have put ourselves on, right? It's really going back to paying attention to nature. So, in the Southern Hemisphere, their winter solstice is June 21st, and that would be the first day of their practice. And it takes a little bit more rearranging in your brain because then you're going, okay, their cycle is July through June, right? And so, what they think of as their, it's like our January through December, right? And so, you kind of have to rearrange it in your head, but you can still absolutely do this practice and it still applies. They're not quite as out of sync during their winter solstice time because they're not doing all of the winter holiday, Christmas, Hanukkah, whatever your tradition is, right? They're not quite as swept up into this hyper-commercialized holiday culture that we are up here in the Northern Hemisphere. Yeah. Well, in Australia, Christmas time is like beach time, summer holidays, we're having barbecues, we're out. So, I guess that more yaying and that more active orientation actually makes sense. It makes more sense. It's much more appropriate. Yeah. Okay. Well, it would be cool to explore, I guess, the history of the winter solstice and kind of how this tradition has evolved throughout the years into what it currently is today. Yeah. So, I mean, like I said, the winter solstice has been celebrated for eons. We have evidence in Stonehenge and Newgrange and Chaco Canyon and there's just endless on every single continent, we have examples of ancient ruins that were clearly designed with care and precision to align perfectly with the first rays of light on the morning of the winter solstice and the summer solstice and the equinoxes as well. But these ancient cultures were much more tapped into the rhythm of the seasons, the alignment of the cosmos, where we are in relationship to all of that. So, clearly been celebrated for eons. What was fascinating to me when I dove into the history because what happened was I self-published this Oracle deck five years ago and then I got picked up by publishers this year and they're fabulous, wonderful publishers and it's been great working with them. And one of the things they suggested was, gosh, it would be really cool to have a history chapter because people are so curious about where our holiday traditions came from. And so, I thought, oh, yeah, that would be great. And then I realized, gosh, I've been doing this practice for, I guess at the time it was 14 or 15 years, I don't quite remember, but I actually really have no idea where it came from. I just learned it from my teacher and I loved it and it filled a space for me of wanting something more meaningful during the holidays and not quite knowing how to do that and it was just the perfect thing. But I really had no idea where it came from. So, I dove into the history and the piece that was surprising for me was not so much that this time has been celebrated for eons and there's been all of these pagan rituals and the syncretism that has contributed to all of these traditions around the world. But the way that we arrived at our current holiday culture and Christmas tradition in the United States was actually more of a case of really deliberate rebranding in the 1800s. And so, I think for me, I assumed that we had all these lovely old world traditions and they just sort of arrived in the melting pot of the United States and, oh, this Dutch St. Nicholas and the Dutch settlers must have just introduced everyone to their St. Nicholas and it sort of organically happened. And that's not actually the case at all. What happened was that in the colonies, in the early days, Christmas, literally what we call Christmas, looked more like Saturnalia. So, it was debauchery, lots of alcohol, overindulgence in food, promiscuity, public promiscuity, role reversal even, gambling, all of these really rowdy, ruckus behaviors, loud parades in the streets and all of these things were happening. There was a tradition called mumming where rowdy bands of youths would go door to door. Usually, they were working class youths and they would go to wealthy manors and put on these ridiculous plays or sing, wassailing, here we go, a wassailing, right? They would sing these silly songs and then they would expect gifts of food and drink or even money in return. And in the old world, these were traditions that the whole society participated in, including the elites and the ruling class. And it was almost like letting a little steam out of the kettle and everybody was in on it and then afterwards, things would go back to normal and they would be reassured that they would have good service throughout the rest of the year. And so, what happened in the colonies was you've got, first of all, you've got the Puritans who are just not having it, right? And then you've also got elites who are pulling away from these traditions. And instead of engaging in the exchange willingly, they were closing their doors and saying, no, we don't want to hear your silly songs and we don't want to see your play and we're not giving you any food or money or drink. And so, you can imagine how that turned sour really quickly and it began to escalate into violence and vandalism. And so, this group of intellectual New York elites got together and they literally, they rebranded Christmas. They dreamt up a romanticized version of the holiday with Victorian elements and domesticated Christmas and offered it up to the masses via newsletters and poetry and things like that. And it worked. They rebranded Christmas. So, that was a really surprising piece of the history to me. So, the roots of the Christmas that we kind of celebrate today is this kind of debaucherous Saturnalia kind of thing. And then you're saying it was just commercialized and rebranded into being something sacred and holy, etc. But the foundation of it is still, let's just party, let's just drink, whatever it might be, let some steam off. Yeah. It's such a tangled history, right? But originally, in the old world, there were lots of these more ruckus traditions happening. And then there was the overlay of Christianity that happened. And that involved the Council of Nicaea, which perhaps you're familiar with, or maybe not. But yeah, where a lot of these decisions about legalizing Christianity and using it as an umbrella religion to try to unite all of these cultures sort of happened. There's overlay of Christianity, but it just couldn't quite stamp out these older, more ruckus traditions. It didn't work. And in fact, there was one quote in a book where he said, the house of God would not vanquish the house of ale. So, they came up with a new deity, which was Santa Claus, right? So, yes, those older, more ruckus role were more like carnival, really, right? It was a time of misrule and upside-downness. That's what was still trickling through in the colonies in the early days. And the elites and the Puritans, again, there was all this tension. We're not having it. And so, they literally dreamt up this romanticized, domesticated version of the holiday that would... The gift giving still happened, but it wasn't between classes. It was within the walls of the house. So, now we're going to give gifts to the children. And at the time, that still maintained a little bit of this idea of role reversal because children were at that time almost seen as an inferior. (29:50 - 30:10) They weren't quite given the respects that they're given today. So, like, okay, well, we'll give the gifts to the children, but not to the lower classes outside of the house. It's all going to stay within the parlor. It's all going to stay within the walls of the house. We're going to quiet this holiday down, right? We're going to tame it, really, is what they did. There's the poem, Twas the Night Before Christmas that we all know. (30:11 - 30:33) That was written in 1823 by Clement Clark Moore. And that was really the first time that the imagery of this jolly old elf was introduced. And he was part of this small group of intellectual elites that was working on offering a more domesticated version of the holiday to the masses. (30:34 - 30:51) And that's the first time that the eight tiny reindeer are introduced. If you look at the words of the actual poem, it's something about a jolly old elf and eight tiny reindeer. The initial, that first introduction of Santa Claus, he was a little elf with tiny reindeer. (30:51 - 31:19) He wasn't the big jolly fellow. And then they began to further develop this new holiday that they were dreaming up and introducing. Yeah. As far as I understand it, the modern imagery of Santa Claus in 1931, Coca-Cola ran an advertising campaign and just created this fat red and white jolly kind of Santa Claus. And this kind of just overshadowed all other variations and illustrations and depictions of him. It's just like corporate myth-making, so to speak. (31:19 - 31:23) The power of advertising. Edward Bernays would be proud. Yeah. (31:24 - 32:28) That's wild. Yeah. It is interesting though to think about these festivals, Saturnalia or even in Greek times, Dionysian festivals, that there's something within the psyche that seeks, I don't want to say balance, but wants to move beyond just repression. Obviously, there's healthier, more intentional ways maybe to go about it than just going off into the forest and getting drunk and having a big orgy. But it's highlighting something. We kind of need that balance between the Apollonian and Dionysian elements within us, but in a healthy way. And so, it's interesting to see how even the power structures of the time, and you can even say today, how they understand the human psyche to this degree and they place these events or these holidays so there can be a little bit of a release valve in human beings. Or else, if there isn't a release valve, what are they going to end up doing? Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. Like, oh, work's finished for the year. All right, let's open this release valve, so to speak. (32:28 - 33:16) And even weekend warriors, Monday through Friday, I'm doing my thing. But then the human psyche can't tolerate that much repression and rigidity all the time. So, it's like Friday night comes along, Saturday night comes along, let's party. And then, okay, back to work on Monday. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's very interesting. A hundred percent. I think, yeah, like you're saying, we just can't sustain the oppression without any break. And I think the ruling classes in places like ancient Rome were aware of that, and that's why they willingly participated in these rituals. Like, okay, we'll go along with this little funny little thing for a couple of weeks, and then everything will go back to normal for the rest of the year, and it will all be fine. Yeah. (33:16 - 33:50) Yeah. So, my imagination is going, like, what went down during that time period, you know? Like, the king, or maybe not the king, but like other elites, you know? Like, what were they engaging in, you know? Like, the role reversals, it must have been pretty wild. But yeah, it's just interesting to think about, you know? And also understand, like, you know, the deep understanding of human psychology that has been around for so long, you know? Like, at that level, to understand that duality and the need for balance, or else what? They're going to rise up and overthrow you. (33:51 - 35:30) Right. Yeah. No, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, to go back to what you're saying, like, maybe there's a healthier way, right? And so, for me, this ritual is like, okay, let's go back before and beyond even these Saturnalian practices, or these things where there was maybe this necessity for the release valve, because it was so oppressive, you know? And what's really going on during this season? And for me, just in life in general, one of my underlying core beliefs is that the more we align with nature, the happier and healthier and more empowered we become. And the farther away we distance ourselves, we try to out-chemical her or out-technology her or separate ourselves, it's just the sicker and more miserable and more dysfunctional we become. So, yeah. Well, it's also interesting when you think of, like, just the differences of, let's say, exploring these more wild aspects of us. It's like, sure, you can go to a rave and pop six pills of ecstasy and get messed up, you know? Or you can go to an ecstatic dance and be completely sober and dance and have fun and listen to music, you know? Like, two things that are very different, but also probably feeding similar aspects of a person, the desire to want to kind of let loose and open up and tap into different parts of them. Yeah, how do we do it in a healthy way, right? Yeah, because I think that's important, you know? We want to touch on these different elements of us, you know? Because, you know, repression and rigidity, I think, is the enemy as well. Like, we don't want that. We want to be fluid. We want to be able to kind of, you know, embrace and honor the different elements that make us very unique as human beings. And so, yeah. (35:30 - 36:33) A hundred percent. And that's something that I remind people of all the time as they're moving through the 13 Sacred Nights practice, because there can be a tendency to, like, buckle down and get a little bit too serious about it, right? Like, okay, this is my, I got to be perfect because I'm laying down the blueprint for the entire year to come. And it's these 13 days that are going to be a foreshadowing of the whole cycle. What we're really doing is we're capturing the first rays of light, right, as they stream back in and there's guidance there. But then we're also, again, consciously co-creating. We're giving our intentions to this really profoundly empowering and magical time. And so, folks can get a little bit gripped about it. And like, you know, what if something bad happens during the 13 Sacred Nights? What does that mean? Does that mean my whole year is going to be a disaster, you know? And so, I remind people that this practice, one, is always meant to be helpful. So, whatever happens during that time, whatever guidance you're receiving, whatever you're recording, writing down in your journal, it's always meant to be helpful, no matter what it is. (36:34 - 37:11) It's a benevolent practice. It's not a practice that's going to, you know, no matter what happens, this isn't a curse for the coming cycle, right? And then also, do the things that bring you joy. That's the imprint that you want in those 13 Sacred Nights. It's not like be a super intense, somber, disciplined version of yourself. It's like, no, do the things that bring you bliss and joy and make you happy and bring that imprint to this sacred window of time that really is – it's like a riptide of energy moving through that gets swept right into your future. Yeah. (37:11 - 37:32) Yeah. It's like kind of anything new that a person learns. We see it all the time. You know, someone goes to a workshop or they take on a fitness routine and it's like, they attach rigidity to that as well. And it's like, let's say during the 13 cycles, you set an intention and it's like, I missed my meditation. Oh my God, I missed my meditation. It's horrible. I'm not doing it right. Yeah, exactly. (37:32 - 37:35) It's like, we're doing it right. What do you mean? Like, this is the thing. Yeah. (37:35 - 37:38) We have this like element of us. It's like, we have to be perfect. We have to do it right. (37:38 - 37:58) I bought the Oracle of the deck and I'm following it the right way, but then I missed a day. And then that just throws off the rest of your experience. And it's like, this is the being able to dance with that and not just kind of lose our center because we didn't do things the right way, according to how Lara said in her deck. (37:58 - 38:06) Yeah, yeah. People call me or write me in a panic all the time. I missed a night. What do I do? It's like, well, draw a card. You're fine. You know? Yeah, yeah. (38:06 - 38:26) Yeah. So, yeah, but yeah, it's we tend to, I think, yeah, that am I doing it right thing? That's definitely been something that I've struggled with and has come up in my own personal life and personal practices, like let go. And what I tell people is like, just, you know, don't strangle the mystery, right? Try not to strangle the mystery. (38:26 - 38:39) Yeah, that's a great quote. The perfectionist tends to hijack anything that we try to do that's like, improve or change our lives. Then it's like one misstep and it becomes so much fuel for the inner critics, just like a lash us with a thousand lashes. (38:40 - 39:56) Yeah, yeah. So, let's hear a bit about, I guess, your personal lived experience in terms of how whatever seeds you planted during this time of the year has played out during an actual year cycle for you. Yeah. I mean, I've had everything from really crazy moments of things playing out that were so word for word that it's almost spooky. Like, for instance, there was one year where I, okay, so fast forward, I did the holy night, did the sacred nights practice in the winter solstice time, right? And fast forward to, let's say, July. It was June or July. And I get a call from a really good friend of mine who lives on the other side of the country. He's got his family. I've got mine in Colorado. Don't see him much, but we're connected. And he says, hey, I'm driving through Boulder. I was living in Boulder, Colorado at the time. Are you and your family around? Can we have dinner? He says, yeah, come on over. He came over. We had a great time. We always have a really profound connection. And then he left and went on his journey wherever he was headed. And after dinner and after he left, I just got this kind of like, did I write something about Tommy in my 13 holy nights journal this year? And I just kind of couldn't. (39:56 - 40:13) I went and I go flip to the sacred night or the holy night that corresponds to the month of July when he showed up. And I had had a dream that night that I wrote down in my journal that literally said a surprise visit from Tommy, so much kindness and connection there. Wow. (40:14 - 42:16) So, I've had things like that that literally are just so in your face that you just can't deny that there's some greater magic order mystery happening here, and so things like that. And then there are things that are much more just metaphorical. I've had so many, pretty much every time that I write about somebody in my sacred nights journal, they end up showing up big time in my life in the month that corresponds the coming year in some way or another. So, that happens a lot. But then I've also had instances where there are things that are more metaphorical. So, for example, my cousin, the year right before the pandemic happened, he wrote in his journal, we had our Christmas Eve extended family gathering, and he wrote, everybody has their masks on. And he meant we're all wearing our social masks. We're all playing our little expected family roles at our family gathering, and it's just so boring and controlled. And then later on in the year, the year of the pandemic, that little phrase that he wrote, Don, took on this much greater meaning. And so, there's also things that are more metaphorical like that. The drawing of the Oracle cards, so you draw a card for each night, and there are essays, of course, that go along with each card that give you some kind of theme to think about. And for me, it is uncanny, goosebump-inducing, laugh out loud, how they always seem to just align so perfectly with the challenges or adventures that I'm going through in a way that inevitably helps me shift my perspective, get a bigger perspective, relax, let go, just move through life with a little bit more grace and awareness, really. So, yeah, a few of the things. Dreams are really potent. During that window, I've had endless prophetic dreams. (42:18 - 42:37) The mugwort card in the deck can help people with how to go about a dream practice if that's not something that you're familiar with. But yeah, lots and lots of prophetic dreams. There's just so much richness that always tumbles out of the information that you gather during this window. (42:37 - 42:58) Yeah. Laura, how do you celebrate Christmas, like the day? How does that day play out in your family? Yeah. Actually, my mom's side of the family is Jewish, and my dad's side of the family is, I mean, nothing really, but more Christian roots. (42:59 - 43:28) Your mom's amazing, by the way. I just want everyone to know that. You know what? That was incredible. My mom, for those listening, is really deep in dementia, and I brought her to a gathering at Eurasimus's house, and he just charmed the pants off of her. I have not seen her light up in that way in so many years. She was so engaged with you and so delighted, and it was just beautiful to watch. I loved spending time with her. It was so sweet. Really, really sweet. I'm so happy that you brought her. Yeah. The gift of Eurasimus. (43:28 - 47:35) Yeah, right? I know. It was a miracle. It was definitely a little moment of miracle that was really sweet. But what was the question? Oh, I was saying, how do you spend Christmas? Oh, how do we spend Christmas? I get this question so often. It cracks me up, and it's why I added a Frequently Asked Questions section to the new Oracle deck after teaching it for five years, but the most common question that I get is, I can't do the practice this year because I'm going to be at my in-laws. It's always the in-laws, specifically the in-laws. I'm going to be at my in-laws. I can't do the practice. Can I do it later, like in late July or something? The answer to that question is no. Again, we're aligning with cyclical, real, nature-based rhythms here. This is a real, legitimate window in the way that the Cosmos are moving, and we're taking part in that. The gift, really, of this practice is that it teaches you to move through your life with more presence, more awareness, no matter what's happening, whether you're at your in-laws. To answer more directly, I still celebrate the same way that I've always celebrated. I still go to my family gathering. It's a big, fat Jewish family, but they celebrate on Christmas Eve and have a Christmas tree. It's a mixed tradition. I still participate in many of the typical traditions that I always have. I just feel less drug under by it all. I feel more like all that frenzy used to just take center stage, and now it's taken a backseat. It's still there. My daughter loves our Christmas tree. It's this big, baby, blue, giant Christmas tree. We have a fake one. We have so many ornaments. A lot of them were passed down from my grandmother, each with its own little story. Oh, mom, remember when you got me this one? We still participate in the usual stuff, but I don't feel as overwhelmed by it all. There's more of a lightness to it. I am soaking in something deeper and more sacred. I like to say that I feel like I'm walking around during that time with a sacred little secret in my pocket. It's like I'm noticing the twinkle in everyone's eye. I'm noticing the conversation that's happening internally between myself and the divine, whoever, whatever that is for you, whether it's source or God or spirit or the field or non-denominational practice. If you want to take those 13 days and dedicate them to Bible study, that could be the thing for you. Nobody has to let go of their traditions, whatever they are, but this practice for me personally helped me anchor into something much more meaningful, much deeper, and much more sacred during this window of time that I think really, again, if we're paying attention to nature, that's the true offering and the gift and the magic of the time is the darkness, the stillness, the infinite, right? We're in the zero point of the year. We're in the field of infinite possibility. And so, yeah. Yeah, it just seems like you bring more presence and intention to the experience, and so you can still be around the same people, but you're there, like who you are, what you represent, what you embody, and I think that's the most important thing. So, it's like you can be in a chaotic environment and yet not take on the chaos. Sure, you might be slightly impacted and have to do some inner Jedi work, but at the end of the day, it's like I know who I am, I know what I value, I know what I bring to the table, and yes, I can still be at my in-laws or everyone's celebrating and partying around me and I can bring my flavor to it. So, yeah, that's really, yeah, really. (47:36 - 50:07) Yeah, and I think also, like you're saying, that inner Jedi mind is one of the things that I think is so profound about this practice is that it really, it's like a boot camp in developing that inner Jedi, that ability to stay rooted and present because it's not, this is a 13-day practice. And so, it's not your 20-minute meditation in the morning or one hour or even two-hour meditation if it's a really deep practice for you. This is 13 days where you're learning to walk through every moment of your life with presence, right? And why? Because, well, we're laying down the imprint for the whole cycle to come, so there's a little more motivation. There's a little extra intention, a little extra reason to be aware and, oh, right, yeah, this is the special time where I'm creating the blueprint, the roadmap for my whole year to come. So, I want to give it a little bit more presence. And then over the years, as you return to this practice year after year after year, it really, I can honestly say in more than two decades or maybe coming up on three now of seeking and yoga and qigong and all these so many practices, this practice more than any I can honestly say has developed and refined that muscle in me to just simply be present and to be aware of the co-creative conversation that we're constantly in whether we recognize it or not with that something greater, right? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, at that point of the year, like the sun enters Capricorn during the winter solstice. And I'm assuming that's where Saturnalia comes from, as Saturn obviously rules Capricorn. And it's called the nadir. So, the sun is in the darkest point of the cosmos, the furthest away from the earth as the least light possible. And obviously, understanding the Capricorn archetype, like this is deep, deep, deep earth. This is a deep stillness, deep groundedness, deep presence, et cetera, which kind of obviously affirms everything that we're speaking to here in terms of retreating and withdrawing inwards. Yeah, but it's like, it would be interesting to like, take this philosophy and live every day with this level of recognition and reverence for the sacred and connections to nature and cosmos and that something beautiful is possible. And every moment can be pregnant with this level of possibility. (50:08 - 50:49) Yeah, I love that. And I think that's what ritual is all about, right? Because another way of saying ritual might be the practice, right? It's a ritual or it's a practice. And there are opportunities for us to remind ourselves to go deeper and to tap in and to be aware and to sense the sacred that, in fact, is always with us, right? And there's never that separation. It's just our perceived separation, right? And so, yeah, I a hundred percent agree. I think that's maybe why humans have always engaged in ritual since, you know, since- Yeah, well- In order to remind ourselves and tap in. Yeah. (50:50 - 52:18) Yeah. Like to me, like I see it predominantly as like astro-theological, like ancient man, like he looked up in the cosmos and he decided to engage in these rituals based upon, you know, what these archetypes were kind of coming through as. And these things are just- We still do these things today in so many various ways, but it's just, it's unconscious now, you know, the kind of foundation this has laid. We just do it very unconsciously and mechanically now. We just rebranded and call it other things, but we're all engaging in these rituals constantly. Yes. Yeah. And I think that, you know, like we originally started out talking about the history, it's such a tangled history because we started with all of these various cultures all over the earth and then the umbrella of Christianity and the politics and the, you know, the power, the, what's the, like condensing of power there, right? And the centralization of power with Christianity trying to bring everyone together. And then you overlay on top of that, these more Victorian values and the domestication process of the pagan holidays that are still, you know, percolating up through the Christian overlay and well, we can't have that. So, let's domesticate them now. And then overlay on top of that, the whole commercial takeover, you know? And so, we have through all of these layers of overlay, we have completely lost track of what these rituals and celebrations were originally even about. So, yeah. (52:18 - 53:31) Yeah. Yeah. I was actually raised the Jehovah's Witness. So, I didn't celebrate Christmas at all for the majority of my life, you know? And to the Jehovah's Witnesses, yeah, it's a pagan tradition that I don't really believe Jesus was born on that birthday. And so, like, I actually did nothing for Christmas for the majority of my life anyway. Yeah. I'm curious, how did that feel as a child growing up? Did you have FOMO or was it? No, he was busy convincing everyone. Here for the truth. It's interesting. Because for me, it's like, and I guess this is maybe like the way I'm designed or a blueprint. But when I believe in something, like, I believe in something, you know? And so, like, as a child, it was almost like, no, this was my value to stand against the crowd. It was my value to not celebrate Christmas. I remember being in school, like, trying to convince everyone else that, like, they were wrong. Like, what are you doing? You're going to, you know, end up in hell. They don't believe in hell, but like, whatever it might be. I don't know if, like, on an unconscious level, there might have been some FOMO, but it's not a direct memory for me, actually, that there was. I think maybe more so around birthdays, you know? Interesting. Yeah. (53:31 - 54:47) I've never been a huge, huge fan, maybe when I was a kid, of, like, these Hallmark holidays. Like, there was something in me that when things started getting super commercialized, you know, especially, I would say, especially over the last 20 years, as I've kind of becoming more aware of things and have gone through my own process, like, I just, yeah, I don't love the commercialization, you know? I just, I want to, like, some of these holidays. I think that's why I also liked, like, Thanksgiving has always been, like, a heavy holiday for me, because it feels a little less, like, sure, we can get into the history of Thanksgiving and what that is, but it felt more like, okay, food and family come together. It wasn't like, everyone, we got to get presents, and there's pressure to get presents for everyone, and it was just, like, a single day, we cooked, we come together, we give thanks and gratitude. It was, like, simple to me. The other ones aren't as simple. They're, like, there's this whole circus surrounding them. But that's kind of what I sense as well, that, like, most people dread the Christmas period because of all the pressure, all the obligation, all the tension, all the, you know, I got to hang out with people on a deeper level I don't really want to hang out with and pretend, like, everything's okay, when there's all this family drama, unspoken shit, and for a second, we're just going to pretend like nothing's there, you know? Like, there's a section of people that unconsciously can't stand at this time of year. Yeah. (54:48 - 55:53) Yeah. But we had someone in our group coaching program, Rise Above the Herd, who, like, you know, there was all this drama around the COVID times, etc., and was probably wasn't allowed to, like, go over for Christmas, who knows? But I remember, you know, she definitely came in operating more, like, a little bit more of a people pleaser. And so, she would, like, travel to go to Christmas and do all these things. And then, like, after going through the program, or even during it, like, Christmas came, and she was just like, no, Mom, I'm not driving. I'm not coming to Christmas. I'm staying home. I'm going to be with my family. Yeah. You know, just, like, very, like, distinct set of boundary and, like, had the most amazing holiday and Christmas of her time. So, it's amazing what happens when we really understand what we value and what we want, and we honor that. Now, I'm not saying, obviously, if you love your family, go spend your time with family. But a lot of people don't have good relationships with their family. And it's actually miserable. And I think part of the reason of, like, when people come back and get ill around the holidays, it isn't just sugar and alcohol. It's way more psychoemotional that's happening because you're navigating, even if you look things from, let's say, you know, a GNM standpoint, you know, like, you're navigating, I mean, you might have tracks around your family. (55:53 - 56:28) Tracks. You might have, you know what I mean? Like, and then you go to the holiday, and then you come back, and you're like, oh, I'm not with my family anymore. And you resolve a conflict. And then, all of a sudden, you start having all these symptoms. So, it's, again, looking at things with this level of nuance. And so, you know, I think, like, to understand and know yourself, you make a decision. Anyway, that was just one example, I think, of how, you know, it's important to kind of stand up for yourself in certain ways around the holidays, because there is so much pressure. There is. That's so interesting, that German New Medicine perspective as well. I hadn't thought about that, but it makes perfect sense. Yeah, so much. All the tracks, so many tracks. (56:28 - 56:32) The family, the issues, the traumas. They're all triggered. They're all triggered, yeah. (56:33 - 56:41) Yeah. On top of also, then you are drinking, and then you're saying things that maybe you wouldn't normally say, and then just, like, the shit hits the fan. Yeah. (56:41 - 56:45) There's a lot of things to consider. Happy New Year, everyone. Happy New Year. (56:47 - 56:53) Yeah. Yeah, there's all of that. And so many people are so sick of the commercialism, right? It's so over the top. (56:53 - 57:26) We're so done with it. But then there's this empty space left of, like, well, how do we celebrate this time? And it's like, okay, well, we're sick of the commercialism, and maybe we don't want to go back to some of the religious stuff that doesn't feel quite like a fit, maybe, anymore, either, that was imposed upon us as children. But what do we do instead? And that's where I think this practice is such a beautiful—it's just the perfect amount of structure, but then you can completely make it your own, and, you know, just helps people set the stage for something a little more meaningful. (57:27 - 57:29) I love it. I'm going to pick up a deck. I don't think I have it. (57:29 - 57:33) I have it. I thought I had your deck, but I don't. You have—well, I gave one to Sophie. (57:33 - 57:38) Oh, okay. It should be somewhere in your house, but the new one— Oh, okay. But I'll get you a copy of the new one, as well. (57:38 - 57:49) Cool, cool. No, because I want to—with Sophie, I want to set the intention this year, and, like, we don't really have a crazy, like, holiday schedule. You know, we go up to my in-laws, and it's pretty low-key. (57:49 - 57:55) So I think it'd be really cool to incorporate this, for sure. Yeah, yeah. The new edition has some pretty cool elements. (57:55 - 58:21) It's got the history chapter, which doesn't go into all the rebranding of the 1800s, but it sticks more to just talking about all the ways that different cultures around the world have celebrated this time, right, and then throughout history and also in modern times. And then there's a frequently asked questions section, and then there's also—I added a meditation. So there's 52 cards, and I added—so each card has a little essay. (58:21 - 58:39) So you're drawing a card for each of the 13 nights, essentially, right, and then that's a reflection or a foreshadowing of a month in the coming year. And if you're good at math, you're like, hey, there's 12 months, not 13. The first night is a reflection of the entire cycle to come, and then the following 12 nights, the 12 calendar months. (58:39 - 58:58) And it's all in the book, the structure of how to do the practice, but each practice now in the new book has a meditation to go along with it. So that's a pretty cool addition as well. Something that I wanted to do the first go-around, but it was like after four years of creating, I was like, stop perfecting, Laura, just get it out into the world. (58:59 - 59:11) Exactly. Yeah, so now each of the 52 cards has a meditation as well, which is a nice sort of action step that people can incorporate into their year and the practice. Yeah, that's really cool. (59:12 - 59:57) Because again, it's interesting just to see how our view and our experience of the holidays, how they shape culture and even from a parenting standpoint, the seeds that are planted in childhood, not always, but- Can we talk about the Santa Claus myth and the whole- Yeah, sure, let's keep going. Yeah, I mean, I just wrote an article about this, and it's actually something that Alec, Zach brought up when we were talking about this whole practice, and then I started spinning my wheels on it even more. But this whole thing that we do in the Western world where we tell our children as parents, we tell our children that there's this magical elf, Santa Claus, and he drops presents off down the chimney and all the things that we associate with it. (59:58 - 1:00:11) And then at a certain point, we have to break the spell and tell them that it was all made up and it was a lie and we were tricking them. I'm curious. Well, Joel, you wouldn't have had a memory of that. (1:00:11 - 1:00:21) Did you grow up believing in Santa Claus? No, never. The rest of us? I was being- Yeah, I did. I think at some point I was kind of just like, you're lying, you're putting the presents there. (1:00:22 - 1:00:30) I don't know what age it was that I figured it out, but- Yeah. I was the spell breaker for the six-year-olds in the neighborhood. You were the spell- You were the kid that was telling everybody else. (1:00:30 - 1:00:38) Yeah, I remember that kid. Your parents are giving you presents, not some fat guy in a red and white suit that's climbing down your chimney. But here's the thing. (1:00:39 - 1:01:13) It's such a weird tradition because not only... I mean, first of all, when my daughter was young, I felt kind of awkward about it. And I remember talking to a bunch of other moms who were really into Waldorf and well-meaning and they were like, oh, well, it helps them develop their ability to believe in the unseen world of energy and spirit, right? And so I was like, I kind of tried that on and I was like, okay, I'm helping her believe in magic. But the problem with that is that then you break the spell. (1:01:14 - 1:01:36) And down with Santa Claus and the giant Easter bunny who likes eggs and the fairy with a tooth fetish, along with those magical beings goes their ability to trust or believe in anything in the unseen world of spirit and energy. And not only that, but their confidence in their parents. You lied to me, mom. (1:01:36 - 1:01:49) We get into an argument when they're like 24. Remember that day when I was six years old and you told me the truth? I never trusted you from that moment forward. But I remember... We've spoken to people like that, have actually had those experiences. (1:01:50 - 1:01:55) And that was so damaging for them, that initial bye. Okay. I was one of those people. (1:01:55 - 1:02:06) I remember that moment as a child where my older brother was telling me like, no, Santa Claus isn't real. And then he saw the look of horror and shock on my face and he felt bad and he was like, just kidding. He is. (1:02:06 - 1:02:17) And then he was like, no, he's not. And I remember feeling really uncomfortable as a child. Just like everybody's been laughing at me. (1:02:18 - 1:02:26) They were in on the joke and I wasn't. That feeling of like, I've been betrayed by those who are close. It's demeaning. (1:02:26 - 1:02:31) It's demoralizing. You're flat out lying to the child's face. Yeah. (1:02:31 - 1:02:48) And it didn't feel good. And I remember that personally in my old... So, yeah. It's just something that's come up over the course of... There's other ways to get your children to believe in the magic and the mystery without lying to them. (1:02:49 - 1:03:05) Yeah. Well, first of all, again, to go back to this practice, I've done this practice with my daughter since she was an infant because, again, I learned it the year she was born. And it wasn't like when she was an infant, we started having her keep a journal or anything. (1:03:05 - 1:03:20) It was a very organic unfolding over the years. At first, she just liked the pretty cards and it'd be like, oh, you got turtle. Oh, isn't that cute? And then slowly as she started to write, maybe she would just write down the card that she got but not really journal a whole lot more. (1:03:20 - 1:03:44) And now, of course, as an almost 17-year-old, she does the full practice. But it was literally cultivating in her ability to tune into her intuition, to notice synchronicity in her environment. Like it's an experience in real magic that you don't have to then rip away from your kids when they come of age and it's time to let them know that Santa Claus isn't real. (1:03:44 - 1:04:03) Yeah. A couple of things in that. I didn't know there was a specific Waldorf encouragement in terms of encouraging them to believe in the lie of Santa Claus because I've spoken to Waldorf parents as well and they say that they tell their kids that Santa Claus is real and they give them a present from Santa Claus. (1:04:03 - 1:04:13) But I never correlated it all the way that this was coming from Waldorf itself, which is super interesting to me. And listeners know I've got a personal little vendetta with Waldorf. Yeah. (1:04:14 - 1:04:37) I don't want to say that I know it's an across-the-board Waldorf teaching or anything. I just know that the women that I happen to be in a circle with were Waldorf moms and that was their advice to me at that time. So, I definitely am not making any claims about the greater Waldorf teachings in general, but for sure, the moms that I was in circle with. (1:04:37 - 1:05:10) And that's my experience too. The second thing is, all right, so let's kind of fill in the gap for those who are listening and be like, okay, how do I treat this with my kids then? How do I treat this carefully? Where do I tell them these parents are coming from? How do I encourage mindfulness yet still want to be able to celebrate? And real quickly, I want to say the tricky part too is like you, Joel, like you have a kid who's maybe taught this in a certain way and then they're going to their friends who do believe in it and then they're kids. So, you know, they're like, just so you know, my mom told me something different, you know? Yeah. (1:05:10 - 1:05:30) And then what does that do? And then you're getting a phone call from another mom and be like, you ruined it. I mean, yeah, I could get messy real fast. I'm not sure that I have any advice for, I mean, I think you just have to teach your kids like, listen, other people have different beliefs and we have to be careful and respectful about how they and their families honor things. (1:05:30 - 1:05:39) And, you know, it's not always our place to whatever. But, you know, I don't think that that's fully controllable in kids. Yeah. (1:05:40 - 1:05:49) So, to me, Christmas is really for the kids. Like it's fun for them. It's good for them to know that you want to like give them a gift and make them feel good, etc. (1:05:49 - 1:06:08) You know, like to me, like I'm really happy to honor that for my kids and like I couldn't honestly, personally, I couldn't really care less about Christmas. But I love doing it. Since having kids, I really love experiencing that time with my family just to have real intentional family time, you know, and to put a bit more intention into it regardless. (1:06:08 - 1:06:17) Like we do that anyway. But to have this period of time where you really do come together and connect and reflect and, you know, exchange goodwill. That's powerful to me. (1:06:18 - 1:06:26) Yeah. And I think the focus needs to be that. And then the bonus is the present as opposed to it's all about the presents. (1:06:26 - 1:06:27) Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. (1:06:27 - 1:06:32) And my family's there. You know, I got to open up my 37th present. Stop talking to me, mom or grandma. (1:06:32 - 1:06:48) You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, yeah, like what you experience seeing a child because I could go from my own experience of opening up a present and getting something that sense of excitement and surprise is amazing to witness to, you know, it's right. It can't I don't think it's just only be that. (1:06:49 - 1:07:05) And there could also be overloaded, like with like hundreds of presents. Overload. And do you lose some of the intention when it's again, like you're saying, like 20 presents instead of one really thoughtful, you know, like, you know, beautiful thing with intention and love and maybe it's homemade or maybe not. (1:07:05 - 1:07:12) But there's still a lot of intention that went into it, you know. Yeah, it's the hyper commercialism. I think that becomes the problem. (1:07:12 - 1:07:19) Yeah, totally. Just yeah. Like, personally, I hate the inner conflict of feeling obliged to gift when I don't feel like gifting. (1:07:20 - 1:07:31) I always find it much more potent. I'm wanting to like support someone and give someone at a time when I genuinely felt that way, regardless of what calendar day it was, you know. I love that. (1:07:31 - 1:07:37) That's totally my dad. He's like, he doesn't believe in holidays or birthdays. He's like, if you need something, I'll get it for you. (1:07:38 - 1:07:44) I like your dad. Yeah, he's a good guy. Yeah, we're not really huge into presents, Sophie. (1:07:44 - 1:08:03) I mean, her mom will get some presents, but it's not really a thing. I'm curious, Lara, do you know much about Halloween and the origins of Halloween? Is that a discussion you have? Yeah, we can. We can dive into a little bit of all the holidays if it's of interest. (1:08:03 - 1:08:23) I mean, I definitely went most deeply into Christmas and the solstice and everything else, but I've gone a bit into the others as well, simply because of exactly this. It very often happens that people say, well, what about this holiday or that holiday? Initially, I would sort of go, no, no, I don't know about any of those. I'm the Christmas girl, you know, and then I went, wait a minute. (1:08:24 - 1:08:27) What am I doing? Just step into this role. People want to know. You can be the holiday girl. (1:08:28 - 1:08:40) I can be the holiday girl. It was so limited of me. You know, but yeah, so Halloween really came from the Celtic tradition of sawen or saween. (1:08:41 - 1:09:16) It's pronounced differently depending on the regional accent in Ireland and where it came from, but it's spelled S-A-M-H-A-I-N. Looks like some hyen. And that was the Celtic tradition that was really, this is a time when the veil is said to be at its thinnest, and it was an honoring of ancestors and those who've passed on and are on the other side, right? And it was said that there could be lots of spirits around and ghosts and maybe some good and maybe some not so good, you know, benign and benevolent and all the things. (1:09:17 - 1:09:45) And so they would dress up either to kind of fool those spirits. It's like, oh, if we're in costume, they won't be able to know who we are or what's going on or to participate in that time of the veil being thin and the spirits being more all around us, right? And so that was the original kind of pagan layer. We've talked about these multi-layers of the holidays. (1:09:45 - 1:10:09) And then Christianity came in and they made it All Saints Day, which was a time to, that would have been November 1st. So it was actually All Saints Day was November 1st, was a time to honor all of the saints. And then the following day, November 2nd, was All Souls Day, and that was a time to honor all the other souls who had passed over, not just the saints. (1:10:09 - 1:10:59) And then the night before became All Hallows' Eve or Hallows' Eve or Halloween, right? And so there was this three-day hollow tide period that the church was, again, trying to put a different focus on this already present ritual or festival that the common, you know, all these cultures were celebrating. And that was kind of where Halloween came from. There's one interesting little tidbit about the jack-o-lantern, pumpkins, carving pumpkins, right? There's a legend of Jack-o-the-lantern, Jack-of-the-lantern, who was supposedly this really shady dude who was, he somehow, he was not a good guy, and he somehow tricked the devil. (1:10:59 - 1:11:31) He was very cunning and he tricked the devil into agreeing that he would never take Jack-of-the- lantern to hell. And so when Jack passed, he was also not good enough to get into heaven. And so he was trapped in the earthly realm, and supposedly, just to spite him or to laugh at him or something, the devil kicked him a little ember that was an eternally burning ember from hell, and he put it in a turnip, carved out a turnip and put it in a turnip and used it as a lantern. (1:11:31 - 1:11:55) This is, you know, obviously, this is an ancient myth, right? And so the Irish would carve out turnips, and this was where the jack-o-lantern came from. Well, then they came over to the States and the pumpkin was a native thing in America, and that seemed like a much better fit. And so we have our modern day jack-o-lanterns from the story and the myth of Jack-of-the-lantern. (1:11:56 - 1:12:10) But most of Halloween came from that tradition. And then there are traditions, again, around the world. Pretty much every culture has a festival or a ritual or a day where they celebrate those who have passed on. (1:12:10 - 1:12:24) Yeah, well, living in Mexico, Dia de los Muertos is obviously huge. And it's something I really appreciate because it's not like a grievance. It's not like, you know, it's a celebration of the dead. (1:12:24 - 1:12:33) It's like you said, it's supposed to be a liminal period where the veil is thinned. And, you know, they put their deceased family members on their ofrenda. They have offerings. (1:12:34 - 1:12:42) And during that period, it's said like the dead can visit, interact, and connect. And that's kind of really beautiful, you know, part of Mexican culture. I love it. (1:12:42 - 1:12:55) I love Dia de los Muertos. And in fact, for years, I incorporated a lot of that tradition into our Halloween tradition with my daughter. And we would make a little altar every Halloween, and we'd put all our dead people on it. (1:12:55 - 1:13:07) Like all the grandparents or the people who had passed on. And then we'd put out little items just like they do in Mexico, their favorite foods. Or I'd put my grandpa's harmonica or little things out for them. (1:13:07 - 1:13:15) And I think it's such a wonderful tradition, you know. So again, now we've got the layer of commercialism on top. So they Christianized it with the All Hallows Tide. (1:13:16 - 1:13:34) Then we've got, again, what was happening during the All Hallows Tide period was a lot of pranking. The youth, the rowdy youth were going around. And this was a time to pull a lot of pranks, you know, because you've got this whole theme of the spirits and everything else. (1:13:35 - 1:13:52) And it was getting a little bit out of hand, like outhouses being overturned and windows soaked. But then it turned into like more vandalism. So again, the layer of commercialism kind of came in in the 30s and 50s in order to domesticate the rowdy youth elements. (1:13:52 - 1:14:14) And that's where they sort of intentionally created this tradition of like, no, now we're going to give candy or sweets. It was originally probably homemade sweets to children in costume. We're going to turn it into a domesticated holiday for children instead of this pranks and this rowdiness and ruckusness that's happening with the youth out in the streets. (1:14:14 - 1:14:28) So there's always this like multi-layered process that happened to get us to where we are today. Yeah. And also, but a lot of that pranking and all that exists, you know, because I was going to ask you like the night before where I grew up, we called it Goosey Night, which I think is like New York and New Jersey areas. (1:14:29 - 1:14:42) But then there's Mischief Night. People like call that the night before Thanksgiving or Thanksgiving, sorry, the night before Halloween. Joel, did you have anything like that? Did you guys celebrate Halloween in Australia? Like what's your... Halloween's not really big in Australia, no. (1:14:42 - 1:14:49) Not big in Australia. People would try to do it and like walk around and, you know, but most of the houses weren't into it. It's like you have to force it. (1:14:50 - 1:15:01) Yeah, because growing up in Jersey was a big thing. I mean, Mischief Night was the thing like friends would get together. They'd probably put on all black or whatever and they'd go out and they'd toilet paper people's houses and they'd egg people's houses. (1:15:02 - 1:15:10) Back in the day when those things were cheap enough to do those things. Yeah, you can't do it with like $10 carton of eggs. Well, maybe that's just like the healthier eggs. (1:15:10 - 1:15:29) But yeah, well, so what you and your friends were doing, that's what the commercial element was trying to suppress, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, we're doing it, but then I just wanted to look up real quickly that like, I guess it was kind of, it comes from the ancient times, the pranking and all that. Yeah, absolutely. (1:15:29 - 1:15:54) Because you're pranking, there's the spirits, the spirit element, you're like pranking, you're trying to trick the spirits and yeah, that was all an element from these more ancient, you know, pagan traditions than the Christian overlay. Then the pagan traditions always like, they always hang on, you know? And then it was the commercial element that really kind of disguised everything eventually and sort of... Yeah, I just have a memory. Like I grew up in the diner business. (1:15:54 - 1:16:22) So of course, you know, the New Jersey diner business, you know, breakfast you can get anytime a day, 24 hours a day. So me and my friends, we, or I actually, I went into my dad's diner, I went into the back cooler the night before Thanksgiving and got like, I don't know, like a couple hundred eggs, like just like a case of eggs. And we went and we ended up egging, we egged a local Burger King, you know? Although it wasn't for probably reasons that I would do that now. (1:16:22 - 1:16:39) No, not that I would say I would do it now. But yeah, it was just part of, it was just almost like you're kind of culturally allowed the night before to do these things, but just don't go overboard, you know, which unfortunately I think people do because who wants their house being egged? I mean, you got to clean that shit off. Mm hmm. (1:16:40 - 1:16:45) Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean, I had friends that I think were arrested for like- Right. (1:16:45 - 1:17:12) So hence, if we can shift the focus to little kids and make it this family friendly holiday where they're parading around with their cute little kids in costume and going door to door to nice, in a nice, friendly, civil manner, you know, then, so all that stuff was really intentionally seeded into the traditions. Yeah. And who knows what role like the candy companies, you know, played into how things evolved too. (1:17:12 - 1:17:33) Oh, 100%. Yeah, 100%. I do think, you know, going back to the Day of the Dead and Samhain and these older traditions, which I think, Joel, you brought up, like it's really beautiful to have a more sane approach to talking about and looking at death as a culture, right? We're so incredibly fearful of death. (1:17:33 - 1:17:55) You know, probably largely part of the reason that we spend millions and billions and trillions of dollars on surgeries and sports cars and all these things, we're just petrified of aging and terrified of death. And, you know, so I think if we did have more of a tradition where it's the time of year, right? Again, go back to nature. What's nature doing? Things are decaying. (1:17:55 - 1:18:11) There's a reason that for all these ancient pagan cultures that this was a natural time to talk about death because you're seeing the death of the cycle. You're seeing everything withering and going back into the earth. And so it was just a natural time to bring these themes up. (1:18:12 - 1:18:55) And, you know, if we had traditions that made that conversation less scary and less taboo for our children as we're raising them, you know, maybe we would have a more balanced healthy culture in a lot of ways. I mean, yeah, it just comes back to having the knowledge and information and this becoming a value system, you know, like for the parents, you know, initially, like what's the value system of the parents and what gets passed down onto the kids? Which is why ritual is so, so powerful. And it's also why those in power have used it as a tool to manipulate the masses for ages because what are our rituals, our holidays, right? Our festivals, they're not just a reflection of the things that we hold most dear. (1:18:56 - 1:19:09) They certainly are like whatever is most important to a culture will be reflected in its holidays in the way that we celebrate. But they're also informing the younger generations. This is what's most important. (1:19:09 - 1:19:40) This is what we hold dear and sacred, you know? And so, it's this self-fulfilling process or prophecy that's informing our new generations how to be in the culture, you know? So, it is a really powerful tool and those in power have always known this and that's why they've, you know, intentionally used it as a tool to guide and manipulate the masses. Yeah. Are there any other holidays that you've kind of delved into that you want to touch on? Yeah. (1:19:40 - 1:20:05) Well, just quickly wanted to say like the aversion of death is very interesting in our culture. You know, this whole death denial kind of thing and like that is the ultimate betrayal of the natural life cycle, you know? Is this these lives that we live just tassely presuming we're going to live forever. Even the rise of transhumanism, all this stuff is connected to this deep-seated fear of death which you're right has been like sanitized all around us now. (1:20:05 - 1:20:20) Now, it wasn't always like that, you know? It used to be embraced and this fear was dissipated early on through proximity to death. Yeah. And also, I think our disconnection from nature that we're seeing more and more plays a role into it. (1:20:20 - 1:21:01) Even just me, I grew up, you know, going to school, living in New York City for 10 years, living in Boston for a long time, even living in LA until I moved out to where we live now in Topanga and have started connecting more with the land and understanding the seasons and the cycles because I can't escape it. Not that I want to, but I can't escape it because it's around me, you know? It makes you really see and that process of like the death and the renewal. But if you're not, if you're not around it because you're like, you know, you're living either in a city or, you know, suburbs with manicured lawns and you're not really connected to nature in that way in an intimate manner where you're witnessing it or seeing even animals die like, you know? Yeah. (1:21:01 - 1:21:13) Yeah. It's also like, you know, it's a war on the unknown, on the mystery, you know, when we just go about things this way as well. I've shared this story before. (1:21:13 - 1:21:29) I'm not going to go into it in great detail. But a couple of years ago, my wife experienced like a prolonged miscarriage where like we knew the baby had passed away. But instead of like just excavating the baby or whatever it might be, like she waited till her body was ready to release the baby. (1:21:29 - 1:21:44) And this took like months. And then eventually the baby was born and like the baby was in our home. And my daughters were like five and three and they're witnessing this fetus, which was, you know, quite evolved as well. (1:21:44 - 1:22:14) And there's proximity to death and they're holding its hand and they're talking to it and they're, you know, it's like, I think it's such a beautiful thing to be able to kind of bring that reverence that death is part of life and nature and to have that early on. You know, I think that actually probably avoids a lot of psychological tension and conflict down the road when you come to actually contemplating death and the fact that, you know, mortality is coming for all of us ultimately. Yeah, that's really profound, Joel. (1:22:14 - 1:22:27) Yeah, really beautiful. And yeah, it just makes me also think about this year, my daughter's harp teacher passed away. She was 82 years old and had become like a really big part of our life. (1:22:27 - 1:22:42) We met with her once a week for a lesson for the last, you know, eight or nine years. And she was a woman of really, really deep and really solid faith, Christian faith. And her passing went fairly quickly. (1:22:43 - 1:22:57) Like she just really, there wasn't this long drawn out process. I mean, we kind of knew it was coming. Her, you know, she'd been, her health had been failing for a year, but she like literally like the week before she died, she taught my daughter a harp. (1:22:57 - 1:23:08) She gave my daughter a harp lesson and it was her time to go. It was her time to go. And we visited her in the hospital and she was like, you know, she was just totally at peace with it. (1:23:08 - 1:23:15) She was like, you know, it's, I'm okay. I'm not afraid to die. And I think there's something to that, not being afraid to die. (1:23:15 - 1:23:52) And I wonder, I don't know, but I wonder, you know, I've also, I'm fairly obsessed with near death experience books and stories. And I've definitely, and those books come across the same idea that when somebody is afraid to die, that our soul does in fact have agency and an ability to hang on here, even if it's utterly heinous, you know, if there's that fear of death that it might be like clogging the process, you know what I mean? Or delaying it in whatever way. And I don't know, it's all a giant mystery. (1:23:52 - 1:24:03) But yeah, I think more open conversation and less denial of death can only be a positive thing for our culture. Yeah, for sure. For sure. (1:24:04 - 1:24:19) And like, it seems to me as though, you know, that fear of death is kind of ramped up and heightened the more that you haven't lived authentically in your life, the more that you haven't really pursued what you really wanted to pursue. You haven't really gone out after your passions. You're living small. (1:24:19 - 1:24:32) You're playing by the status quo. You're in jobs. You don't really appreciate your friends are a reflection, not of your authentic true voice, but of, you know, the things that you're not saying, the things that you're not showing to the world. (1:24:32 - 1:24:45) And of course, there's a fear of death. But I do believe that people can get to the point where, you know, they genuinely feel as though they've lived each day as fully as possible. They've lived as authentically as possible. (1:24:46 - 1:24:55) And that does diminish to some capacity, you know, because ultimately, the more regret there is, I think the more pain there's going to be at the end. That's interesting. Yeah. (1:24:56 - 1:25:02) It's just, yeah, the regrets are like, I didn't quite do it. I didn't, I'm not finished. Or I didn't do it right. (1:25:02 - 1:25:07) Or like, I can't go yet because it's not, yeah. Yeah. The pain of the life that was unlived. (1:25:07 - 1:25:30) You know? Yeah. Lara, it's been so amazing hanging out with you the past 90 odd minutes. Any, like, final message that's kind of coming through, I guess, for our audience here? I think, you know, I think that the takeaway is that our holidays, the history is so twisted and so convoluted. (1:25:31 - 1:25:50) And so, you know, I think I'm just giving an invitation to reset, for everyone to have their own personal reset. And that can look different for every person. But really think about what it is that you want to emphasize in your life and for yourself personally, or maybe with your family. (1:25:51 - 1:26:12) And just, you know, I think it's time for a reboot of our holidays and our rituals and for us all to just consciously take a look at what we've got, what we don't want, and how we want to do it better in a way that, you know, is aligning with more of our core values, whatever those may be. Yeah. Beautifully said. (1:26:13 - 1:26:26) And how can people get your deck? How can they connect with you and learn more about all these beautiful things that you're doing? Yeah, I'm really easy to find. I'm larajday.com is my website. L-A-R-A, don't sneak a U in there. (1:26:26 - 1:26:38) It's Lara. L-A-R-A-J-D-A-Y, larajday.com. I'm also at larajday on Instagram and Facebook. And previously, you were only able to get the deck on my website, but now I've got publishers. (1:26:38 - 1:26:47) So, it's in all the places. It's at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Simon & Schuster, Beyond Words. Yeah, all the places. (1:26:47 - 1:26:56) It's titled the 13 Sacred Nights Oracle. Awesome. We'll make sure all that's in the brief for our people to easily find that as well. (1:26:57 - 1:27:00) Hope you guys enjoyed this episode and we'll see you next time. Take care.