Simon Esler Reclaiming the Role of Men in Birth

Simon 00:00:07.520 - 00:00:08.320 Sorry about that. Joel 00:00:08.480 - 00:00:09.920 You're good? Ready? Simon 00:00:10.240 - 00:00:10.840 All right. Joel 00:00:10.840 - 00:00:11.280 Yeah. Simon 00:00:11.280 - 00:00:11.920 Let's do it. Joel 00:00:11.920 - 00:01:18.650 Let's go. Simon Esler is a filmmaker, performer, and strategic storyteller. Uncovering the unseen forces shaping modern life. Through documentaries, theatrical productions, and digital series, he explores the front lines of cognitive warfare, family legacy, and spiritual resilience. Drawing on his background as an actor, ordained minister, content creator, and mindfulness mentor, Simon weaves together research, embodied insight, and narrative craft to challenge moral inversion and reclaim free thoughts. His work is grounded in a disciplined study of how attention, perception, and presence are shaped, merging cognitive inquiry with contemplative practice to foster clarity and personal sovereignty. This assignment's third appearance on Here for the Truth. He first joined us on episode 119, where we got into transgenderism and fifth generational warfare, and again on 148. Talking about emotional intelligence in the midst of fifth generational warfare seems to be a little theme here. Bro, great to have you back, man. Good to see you again, dude. Simon 00:01:19.500 - 00:01:23.580 Yeah, it's a pleasure to be back. Nice to see your smiling faces. Good to be here. Joel 00:01:23.580 - 00:01:33.740 Absolutely. Absolutely. What's been happening for you since the last time we spoke? It's been at least a year or so since we've connected, so. Yeah. Give us a little update in Simon's world. Simon 00:01:34.380 - 00:03:19.310 Well, I mean, of course, I'm in the constant grind of raising my two sons in this unschooling model that we've committed to, and so really just continuing to double down on my fatherly devotion. I really try to take devotion to the next level. I've really been practicing much more deeper, internal kung fu practices and applying that to my parenting and really thinking more about how I want to share that, what kind of tools I want to bring. I've been very focused on the. Reflecting on the births that we had and trying to cultivate that wisdom to share as well. And, you know, at the time, it wasn't something that we really saw for what it was when we first had that. So I've been really reflecting on that and seeing the power in some of the choices that we naturally made from the beginning of starting our family all the way till now and looking to build a foundation of tools and offerings and insights that. That really help push that forward. I've been doing lots of video editing work, you know, doing some video editing projects to help fight child sex trafficking and lots of things within that space, really trying to help push lots of different missions forward. So it's been good, you know, been very, very blessed to have an amazing network of people around me and lots of amazing opportunities. And then I think on the side, I should mention I'm also still doing lots of acting and comedy theater and things like that. And I'm actually working to grow the social media of the theater company that I'm working with right now. And it's a really great experience being in the community. You know, doing all this online work is so beautifully balanced by going and being in front of an aud, building fun characters and taking on acting work and all of that. So it's been good. Been busy. Oh, cool. Yerasimos 00:03:19.550 - 00:03:21.150 How old are your sons? Simon 00:03:21.710 - 00:03:22.750 Seven and ten. Joel 00:03:23.630 - 00:03:24.350 Oh, man. Simon 00:03:24.750 - 00:03:31.870 Yeah. Hitting that first decade is bizarre. I mean, it's like it really frames how much children are a form of time travel. Joel 00:03:32.110 - 00:03:32.670 Yep. Simon 00:03:33.070 - 00:05:19.610 You know, it's weird. It's really weird. You're like, oh my God, it's been a decade. What is happening here? But, but beautiful. You know, seeing the hints of, you know, the, the, the man my eldest is going to be and really looking to foster that and foster deeper conversation, Trying to create space for much deeper, more meaningful conversation has been a really beautiful challenge and very, very rewarding. And, and really focusing on passing on the cognitive tools that have blessed me in know I'm very, very passionate about sharing the capacity to be internally silent. Very, very important tool, in my opinion. And I think, you know, I've been framing it in the term silent cognition that we need tools to help us experience silent cognition. And I think that's really important because we live in a time where the majority of influences and threats that we're facing are cognitive in nature. And it's been my experience that when you can actually experience a mind that is silent, that's a very difficult mind to attack. You know, a mind that is able to rest in silence and observe the world from a position of silence is very difficult to influence because the majority of the influences that we faced are narrative based. And our internal dialogue and our anxiety and the way our mind works is narrative based. And so we're, we're constantly swimming in a sea of narratives, whether they're internal or external, and to be able to cultivate stillness and silence as something that we can actually condition into ourselves, into our bodies as a tool. Been very intrigued by the process of passing that on to my children and the unique ways that I pass that on to each individual child according to who they are. Very, very different. Joel 00:05:19.770 - 00:06:01.630 Yeah, of course, of course, man. Yeah. Looking forward to diving into all of this. I know a key thing today is going to be the role of the Masculine in birth and pregnancy, which I think is such an important conversation. There's not many of them happening in purely men's circles. Just quickly though, like, I see you as someone that is just like a creative powerhouse, you know, on so many different arenas. And what role does creativity even play in your life in like, you know, this war against cognitive warfare or whatever you want to call it, like being able to have your own interests, your own passions. You're like, I'm into acting. Let me keep acting. I'm into this. Let me, you know, it's like. And really honing your own kind of creative essence. What? Yeah, what's the power of creativity in your life? Simon 00:06:04.350 - 00:09:40.260 There is a huge form of self discovery that comes from creating without being tied up in meta perceptions. And so, you know, this idea, meta perceptions is the extent to which you think about how others perceive you. So it's an interesting part of our cognition. And I had a lot of experiences as a young artist. When I was in bands, for example, I used to sing a lot in bands growing up. You know, I moved around a bunch of different, you know, punk rock, emo bands, that kind of scene. And I remember hitting a real creative wall that I didn't understand in my early 20s. And I've been reflecting on that a lot lately and realizing that the wall that I hit was my creative process. Getting entangled with meta perceptions and, you know, being. It's not that you don't want to consider that at all as an artist, because sometimes that's very valuable tool, but creating from within yourself, because there's something within you that you need to put into the world. Something that has to come from you and, and be given to the world. And learning to purify that process so that it is from you and to an extent for you has been a really powerful experience for me as an artist. I got cast in the lead role of this summer festival show this summer. And it had been a long time since I had jumped into that kind of acting. I've been doing a lot of comedy character based acting where I just. I create these really funny characters and then I'm playing with these characters in a larger, more satirical comedic setting. But this was, you know, while it was comedy, it was still a chance for me to really find presence and to find the emotional moments of this character. And it was the first time in many years that I had come back to that specific challenge as an actor. And what I found was that I've been spending so much time cultivating all this silence and presence and doing all this internal kung fu. So that when I came to a role like this, I all of a sudden realized I had a much more rewarding creative process that was, I was able to open myself up to and have it come through very naturally. And the result was really just. It was incredible. It was like one of the most successful experiences I've had in putting on a show to the public. And the feedback that I got and the reflections that I got from people in the industry and it made me realize the importance of, you know, what I was speaking to earlier, this capacity to have enough of myself clear so that what needs to come through me creatively can come through and isn't, isn't muddied by internal noise that might want to disturb that process. And so recognizing the role of meta perceptions in my life has been sort of crucial to that because on the one hand, it's been about letting go to a certain extent of any mental habits that are rooted in that, but then recognizing when that's really natural and healthy for me, that sometimes me taking the time to look at something through the eyes of another helps me really reframe it and understand it in a deeper way. So, you know, creativity has played a huge role for me in understanding how I can be of service and understanding myself. Most importantly, I really can't, I cannot survive if I don't have creative outlets. I really just, I know that that's extremely imbalanced for me, but I also know that I just can't be of service in all the other areas of my life if I'm not clear enough to be creating. And so, you know, I think it's just essential. Absolutely essential. Yeah. Yerasimos 00:09:40.260 - 00:09:58.980 I love what you just said and you explained it in such a clear way. I think we may have talked about this in the past, but like, I trained as an actor for years and, and worked as an actor, but it's been, I mean, over a decade. I stopped that. But the last project I did was a theater project and it was. Simon 00:10:00.740 - 00:10:01.020 It. Yerasimos 00:10:01.020 - 00:10:56.020 Was five, it was four years after I had done anything else. But I put so much focus on my inner work during that four year period on building more capacity within, on better, more emotional intelligence, more presence. And that after that show, you know, four years later, my last thing I did, people came up to me like, that's some of the best work you've ever done. And so it's like, sure, you could do all the acting training and the acting stuff. And obviously I think personal development work is part of it. But I wasn't even when I was doing this inner work, I wasn't even focusing it in terms of, like, serving an acting project. It was like work on myself to love myself, accept myself, you know, connect to more parts of me. And then the magic just happens because you just. What needs to come forth comes forward. So I just love the way you explain that, because I hadn't really heard anyone explain it like that, and it was a personal experience that I experienced as well. So, yeah, thanks for that. Simon 00:10:56.580 - 00:12:39.430 Yeah, it's. It's really incredible the way that. That functions in the acting space. It's very rewarding just because there's so much you can do when you have clear presence, you know, on stage or on screen, whatever it is. Having a scene partner right there and having them say something and really watching it affect you internally. Yeah. And just observing that with curiosity and responding authentically in, you know, in the. In the world of this character. Yeah. Such a rich. Such a rich experience. And, you know, I really had going leading into this project, I had developed a kind of different mindset where I was like, you know, I'm just gonna. I'm gonna pour every part of myself into this. I'm gonna push this to be, you know, the best work that I can do in a way that really enriches my. My life and my network. And that was just sort of the framing that I'd put into it. And, God, it was so. So incredibly rewarding. And it really did. You know, I made connections. I'll do a bit of a flex here. One of the crazier things that happened was the. The largest casting director in Canada just happened to be at the show and approached me after the show. And to get feedback from someone on that level, even though I have not gone into that particular world of acting for so long, you know, it was the same thing you're experiencing. It was like some of the best work I've done. But, yeah, it's interesting the way that just working on yourself in those ways enriches so many other areas of your life and the way that's tied to creativity. I think there's. For all of us, there's some creative process that we need to be engaged in that has to do with your relationship with yourself. And whether that's something you put into the world or something you create privately, I don't know. But, yeah, yeah, there's something there. You know, there's something human. Yerasimos 00:12:39.670 - 00:13:45.870 I want to. Before we get into the main gist of this, I want to ask another Question. Because you're in the entertainment world, you're an actor, you live in Canada. There's certain things I would say that are more that people in that community, in the entertainment world, in the acting world, are more aligned with from a socio political standpoint. So how do you navigate that? Obviously with the views that you share, that we share, the things that you speak out about that maybe aren't fully aligned with the views that a lot of people in that industry have. How do you navigate that? And I know, like, I think that the way forward isn't to be in this polarized state, but to find some type of common ground and connect. But that being said, we see it all the time. Like there's so much judgment coming and people are so attached to their, like, political identities and their views. And so being in that world, being in theater, being in comedy, like, are you, are you just working with people that are aligned with your views? I would think not. And if not, how do those conversations go? Do you just keep it like, you know, civil? Like, do you get into deep debates? Like, I'd love to know what that experience is like for you. Simon 00:13:46.990 - 00:17:24.949 Yeah. The theater world specifically is pretty far left politically. And so I've had some really interesting encounters and actually very enriching. You know, there's one actress that I've worked with who is, you know, in sort of total opposition. This is someone who's attending, you know, neo Marxist protests all around the city and is very sort of devoted to the causes that I stand against. But we've had some really incredible conversations, to be honest, and we've really been able to find a civility and a respect in the way that we dialogue, that there's no way I could have found that online. So being in person with people with the total opposition, you know, mindset that is the best part about that opportunity is the in person encounters because the online encounters in terms of this polarization that's going on can end up becoming so much more volatile. But there's a kind of accountability you have when you're in person to maintain a way of communicating that I found very enriching. So there's that aspect of it. There's a couple other things that I think are important to point out. One is that I am, I refuse to compromise certain aspects of myself. So I refuse to hide my brand in terms of the. Some of the advocacy work that I'm doing and work that might be framed more politically, even though I wouldn't personally frame it that way. So there's Part of me that just refuses to hide that. And if that gets discovered by someone in the industry, I really don't care. And the other side of it is that my, my way has been to build my own network. So rather than relying on the industry, it's been about building out my own network of connections and people that. Not that I align with ideologically, but creatively. Yeah. And so having a network of people that I'm aligned with creatively and who see my value as an artist and aren't caught up in any of the other things, that's been one of the ways that I've been able to consistently keep, you know, working and performing and some of the ways that opportunities have come to me. So I've had to learn. And, you know, human design has been very helpful in this way in terms of, you know, I'm. I'm a 14 and so understanding the way that networking is important is a part of my life, is the way that my body sort of functions. Trying to honor the task of nourishing your network and really treating it like, like a plant, you know, your network is something that you want to really keep connected and nourished and maintain these healthy relationships and grow it. And that view for me has really helped me cut through a lot of that nonsense where I'm not looking like, oh, I've got to get the approval of this, like, big sort of woke industry. It really doesn't matter. If I build up my network correctly, then the opportunities that are correct for me will arrive as a long as I'm respecting my network in that way. And this, it's an interesting example. Right. Going and doing. I got cast in this play because of someone I had worked with for a long time who trusted me as an artist and, and, and really wanted me to come into this role because he saw me as a good fit for it. And then that's what's plugging me into people who are at big, you know, high levels in the industry. And now that someone in that position has seen my talent, has seen my work, it really won't be about trying to, like, climb through these echelons. This is an authentic connection I now have in my network, and I don't have to worry about that. So I think correct networking, just trying to be authentic and growing your network can really help you find a balance. If you're being faced by an industry that's polarized by the sort of conditions of this global war that we're in. Yerasimos 00:17:25.829 - 00:17:54.870 Yeah, it's so easy to, like, Other, another person online, but when they're sitting with you and they maybe know you already, they know your heart, they know your essence. Yeah, it's like the program of like all people who believe these things look and act this way. But then it's like, but wait, you're not, you're not that. You're, you're a whole, you're a whole person. You're dynamic, you're loving, you're kind. You know what I mean? So I just feel like that helps break down the walls and like some of that legit, that rigid programming. Joel 00:17:54.870 - 00:18:16.440 It's almost like in online interactions we reduce people to four thoughts, words, ideas and beliefs. And like everything else disappears. There's not even a body, there's no nothing. You know, but like when you're there with a whole physical embodied human being, it's like, okay, we need to remain connected on some capacity. Like you can't just have this invisible wall block, delete whatever it might be that we have online. Simon 00:18:16.760 - 00:18:17.200 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:18:17.200 - 00:18:55.980 And if you have the emotional intelligence to know how to communicate, that's a big piece of it as well. You know, like if you can like receive someone saying something that you don't agree with, but then not come at it combatively, you know, that dialogue, that relationship is going to look much different and that person likely is going to respond differently as well. I mean, you're always going to get those people that maybe are just like, you know, super plugged in and they're going to come at you no matter how you communicate. But generally speaking, I find that like, if you know how to communicate and you hear someone, you take in what they say, but then offer your thoughts in a, in a healthy manner in that conversation can go somewhere. Simon 00:18:56.220 - 00:22:54.370 Yeah, it's beautiful. I mean our. I really am such a big fan of the relationship between, you know, empiricism and, and our sort of the strange challenge we have with the digital world. You know, this idea that our body is our primary truth seeking mechanism is just so, it's so crucial to our existence that your best means of truth seeking is your whole body in a situation, which means that you have to recognize how much the digital realm disassociates us from that. And then on the flip side, you know, when you're, it's like you said, when you're in a moment with, with an embodied human being and you're having these interactions, you're watching what's coming up in you in a very interesting way. You might have like an emotional response rise up in you to something they say. But that can also be really enriching in terms of realizing narratives that have been installed in you. And you have something come up and be like, well, wait, I don't have to frame it that way at. And so there's a narrative I've been operating with that I could set aside. And then you find a new way of framing your own values and your own principles that's actually a little more authentic and actually is something that they can connect with. So it's just evolution. I think we're really here as beings to balance the self awareness piece with the relating piece. Like we are here to relate and to become masters of relating. And I love the challenges that I've had in these encounters with, you know, people who are diametrically opposed to me. So, you know, I enjoy it. I enjoy the challenge of it. And I'm not going to say there's been no stress with it. I've certainly had thoughts about, you know, oh no, my brain might collide with this part of this. And then the way I find peace is just by recognizing that my authenticity is what really, really brings me peace. And it goes back to what I was saying earlier. This. The habit of being in meta perceptions too often is one that we can get really deeply conditioned into. I found some really interesting research on this that they. They found that meta perceptions is one of the primary means by which people are manipulated through political propaganda. And they've managed to get it. So that on the left and the right, there's interesting research from a researcher named Emile Bruno. I may have spoken about this before, but he looked at how diametrically opposed the meta perceptions were of people on the left and the right. So people on the left view people on the right as about 400 times more extreme than they actually are. And same with the other side. So their meta perception of the other is 400% more extreme than the actual reality of like their left wing neighbor or their right wing neighbor. So we're very deeply manipulated in this way. And I've become very aware of it because in studying my own human design, I found out that one aspect of my cognition is actually to naturally go to meta perceptions a lot. And so it's been a really interesting experience for me recognizing that cognitively there's something natural there for me that my cognition is always going to, in some way or another, utilize meta perceptions to comprehend the world and to reflect on things. But then it's also made me realize that that makes me particularly vulnerable to any kind of Manipulation that might lean into that. And so I've been able to sort of reframe that aspect of myself and come to understand that when meta perceptions are coming from a point of service, you know, when you're really looking to see yourself through the eyes of another as a point of service, then it transforms that whole framing, and it's no longer about you being controlled or you seeking validation of the other, but. But in fact, a point of service where you're looking to reflect on the world through their eyes and then looking to be of service of them through that. So that's been a really big journey for me, recognizing that sort of nuanced balance in myself. Joel 00:22:54.690 - 00:23:37.260 I love it, bro. This is such a high level, nuanced discussion, which I feel like we could only really have with you because you get this to such. Such a. Such a deep extent. And much of this comes back to, like, Crowd Psychology 101, bro. And they've just taken this information and they've weapon. They continue to weaponize with more and more technology as it comes into matter. But I could talk about this all day. I know we all could. Let's talk about masculinity in the birth process. So I feel like a good place to start is you kind of planted the seed about the births of your own children, so you kind of want to share what those experiences were like for you, and maybe we can unfold this conversation from there. Simon 00:23:38.540 - 00:32:26.760 So our firstborn child, my son Asher, we had an unassisted birth in a birthing pool here in our home. And so really what that means is that it was just myself, Amanda, and a friend of ours who had been trained as a doula. And it was just the three of us when Asher came into the world. And so we didn't have any. Any midwives in the space even at the. The time. And our journey to that was not based on having a goal of, you know, attaining an unassisted birth. It wasn't like trying to create the most natural birth we could. It wasn't an agenda that we were seeking to fulfill. It was much more deeply rooted in presence and. And trust and building a foundation, you know, between Amanda and I in preparation. So, you know, I'll bring some of it back to what I was speaking to earlier. There was a big role that was cognitive silence. Silent cognition played a big role. I'll say. So Amanda has also experienced, you know, a journey to more internal silence over the years. She had mindfulness guidance that was paid for at one of her jobs. So she Worked doing, like, housing, helping people maintain housing here in Toronto, and was, you know, in a space where she was working with people with lots of drug addiction and mental health issues. And her work had provided a. A teacher who was trained by John Cabot Zinn, who is just so well known around the world for his mindfulness and. And meditation offerings. So she had really practiced for many years very, very powerful tools that allowed her to be silent enough that she could watch her body and allow her body to be an authority in the situations where that was correct. So going into a pregnancy with that tool, it gave Amanda this ability to watch her body and really listen carefully to what was correct as we navigated that. So already we're operating from that place. And for me, we had an opportunity to build a foundation to get ready for this birth. And so one of the ways we did that was by working with this book called Active Birth. And it gave all these different exercises for us to do as a couple. So positions for Amanda, squatting positions, different positions she might take where I could support her. And so we would practice me holding her and seeing what it's like to bear her weight in different positions. We. We were doing breathing exercises together to get ready and so doing actual physical work together to prepare for the labor. It built this incredible foundation for us so that by the time it got to that moment of truth, Amanda's trust in me was based on the fact that we had really done all this work to lead up to that moment, so that she knew she could just do what she had to do and I would be there physically, spiritually, mentally, all of that. In terms of the process, moving through the actual, you know, meetings with the midwives, the encounters with potential medical interventions, it was very different for Amanda than it was for me. She's coming from this place of embodied pregnancy and listening to the body and following what the body says is correct. And so when she is, you know, in meetings with midwives and they're suggesting different medical interventions, you know, vaccines and different tests and things like that for her, and I'll say that, you know, from a human design perspective, she's splenic authority. So for her, there's this, in the moment, instant authority. So for her, there's the no, right? She immediately gets the no. She knows right away as an emotional authority, for me, there's the waiting. And. And as a 1, 4, I'm looking to build a foundation. So she knew that inviting me into the process was going to be important for me in a way that it wasn't for her. So I got invited, you know, to come to some of the midwife meetings that we really felt were the more important ones for me to be there. And I got my chance to ask questions and to, you know, to challenge some of the potential interventions and really get informed about the way they were framing these things. And so it gave me a chance to really ask the questions I needed and build the foundation I needed so that as we moved along towards the birth, again, the way Amanda reflects on this is that that allowed her to trust in me when it came to that rite of passage, because she knew that I had been given the chance to build the foundation I needed. So, you know, we had lots of classic experiences. Of course, in the first trimester, they tried to push the MMR vaccine. Amanda had agreed to some blood testing, and they had found out that her MMR childhood vaccine had waned, which I think is actually the case for the majority of adults. And so they were really trying to push that, oh, you know, your. Your immunity has waned. And so you should really consider getting the MMR vaccine, because rubella can. It can cause deformities in the fetus, you know, all the very sort of intense things. And it was a very obvious, clear no for us. And I will say that the midwives are very respectable, respectful. They didn't take things into a big confrontational place. But it's one example of a situation where her and I were aligned in our response, but through our own authority, through our own ways of experiencing the situation. So by the time we got to the day of the birth, Amanda was in this position of following her body so closely that you get to a certain moment in the contractions where the midwives, the plan they make with you, they say, call us when the contractions are at this point. This is when we need to be there to, you know, to help deliver the baby. And so we got to that moment, and when Amanda was asked whether she wanted to call the midwives, she had a very clear knowing in her body that they just weren't the correct people to be in the room for Asher's birth. And so this was one of the biggest nos for me that I had to participate in. The no was the omission of where she was at in the labor from the midwives so that she could actually have the environment and the people that were correct for her and, you know, to trust her in saying, okay, we're actually not going to call the midwives. We're going to leave it, and we're going to do this ourselves. And so that, you know, standing with her in that moment and having this, this moment of reflection where I realized the way this could be framed by the midwives, I realized the way this could be framed by people as radical or extreme and having to put that aside and really make it about her and knowing that all the way through she's had this very clear authority and knowing that she's connected to her body into the pregnancy, that she has this embodied sense of her own authority, it was a really powerful moment for us. And so that was the decision, actually. It was just, they aren't the correct people to be there for the, the moment that he comes out. And so they're not going to be. And, and it was beautiful. And he came out. You know, we were in the birthing pool together and we got to experience that. And then the midwives came after and they did all their checks and you know, they helped me set up the cutting of the umbilical cord and all those things. But we didn't even know about the term unassisted birth. We had, it wasn't even an idea in our minds. In fact, Amanda didn't even know about that term until afterwards when she saw the midwife filling out the form about how the birth had gone and how they wr unassisted on the form. And so we really arrived upon that experience just by following what was correct for us and going through each situation, you know, uniquely, according to that to, to what was right at the time. You know, I know some people believe, for example, that ultrasounds are a form of, you know, interference with the baby. There's some, some people that have looked at research that maybe the frequencies of ultrasounds are a form of, of interference. And we'd seen some of that. But when it came time to, you know, to, to get that, Amanda felt actually that it was correct for her. You know, her authority really didn't say that there was a danger there. And she also felt that that was actually going to help her connect to the baby more and help her feel more embodied in the actual pregnancy itself. And so that was a yes. And so I just bring that up because it wasn't about having this, this pre scripted notion of saying no to any kind of like mainstream idea. It was situation by situation and just trying to be authentic and true together, moving towards that birth. And so the result was that unassisted birth experience. But yeah, that, that was, that was the way that it all unfolded. Joel 00:32:27.080 - 00:33:21.640 Amazing, man. So much to take from that already. I mean, Especially the power of, like you both already knowing yourselves to a certain extent, understanding your authority, understanding your decision making process, you know, honing your intuition and, you know, really embodied listening, you know, really supported you in that process. But one thing that really stood out for me, you know, I guess as a father of three, three attempted home birds, two actually did happen at home. The last one was completely unassisted as well. It's literally just me and my daughters with my wife Alyssa. But it's like the energetic game when it comes to whose presence, who's in the room, whose fear is there, who's projecting, who, you know, our wives and the mothers ultimately feel comfortable with that. It cannot be understated how important the energetic game is when it comes to the birth process. Simon 00:33:22.920 - 00:35:08.220 Yeah, it's huge. It's huge. And we know, you know, who's. Whoever's aura you're in at the time is conditioning you. You know, you are conditioned by the presence of the beings that surround you. So the primary thing that I've come to understand about birthing and choosing birthing plans and making birthing decisions is that the mother's embodied sense of safety and security and harmony is the primary thing to cultivate. And so maybe, maybe that is in a birthing room, in a hospital. I don't know. You know, you can't prescript those things. You know, there's obviously lots of discussions and there's statistics and you. And you can show that like, statistically it's actually safer to home birth a baby at this point, it's much more dangerous to go to the hospital. Those things are true. But again, instead of the prescripted idea that we need to become more natural, I think it is much more about really honoring women's embodiment and their capacity to know what is correct. And you know, that that is a big challenge that we face as a society because women have been conditioned to see birth as a medical emergency. And so there has to be a certain amount, if a woman has that conditioning, there has to be a certain amount of deconditioning so that what true safety is for that woman can be perceived as opposed to feeling like, oh my gosh, it's more safe to go to the hospital, because that's what you've seen in TV shows and movies over the years, that there's this panic, you got to get there, and it's like a whole rescue operation. So if that conditioning is present, then I can see how it'd be easy for a woman or even for the whole. For the couple, for the family to get confused and think, oh, this is the safest choice. So there is a balance between deconditioning and then finding that sense of security for the woman that actually enables the safest experience of the birth. Joel 00:35:09.340 - 00:35:24.950 Yeah, man, for sure. How important is it, would you say that like, you and your partner share the same values and the kind of, at least on the same page, you know, heading into this process, I mean, it's, it's everything. Simon 00:35:25.190 - 00:36:00.880 Having that foundation was something that created so much ease for us because we didn't really get to any points in the pregnancy where we had deep disagreements about what was correct. There was so much ease in moving through those decisions together. And I think part of that is the foundational experiences we had as individuals leading up to this. We had both experienced the corruption of the mainstream medical system firsthand. What, what year was, what year was. Joel 00:36:00.880 - 00:36:03.550 Your first one born? I was 10 years ago. Right, so it's 2015. Simon 00:36:03.550 - 00:38:49.720 Yeah, 2015. Yeah, yeah. Because we had both been betrayed by the mainstream medical system. You know, Amanda was on the verge of death and they were doing nothing for her. They were telling her everything was fine. She was 105 pounds, she wasn't digesting food. She was in severe danger. And her exit from the mainstream medical system into traditional Chinese medicine and, you know, clean eating and using food as medicine, you know, she ended up working with someone who gave her the opportunity to save her own life with her lifestyle choices, with her food, with, you know, connecting with her body and her food. And I had experienced it firsthand. I was my father's primary caregiver in the last years of his life. And so I was the lead person to deal with the mainstream medical system in, you know, bringing him to the end of his life. And I had seen absurd, bizarre forms of corruption and cold heartedness. Just people who are so, I don't know, I guess they're traumatized and disassociated from what's really going on when someone is very unwell and they're suffering. And so I just, I saw a lot of well meaning professionals betraying their patients entirely. And I also got to see my father experience drastic relief from treatments that had nothing to do with the mainstream medical model. You know, there was times when he was in horrible, horrible pain and they were giving him every painkiller possible. And then I would. I'd been training with a traditional Chinese medicine doctor at the time, and there was an experience I had where I went and I performed moxa. You know, you guys know Moxibustion. You ever do that? So, you know, it's this traditional Chinese medicine technique where it's these specific herbs. It's like a cigar of herbs, and you're holding it at an angle at different points in the body, you know, different meridians, and you're moving it around the body, and it's facilitating the flow of energy. It has much a very similar effect to acupuncture. So I've been trained in these mock Sebastian techniques. And I had this really powerful experience where my dad was in horrible pain, the painkillers were doing nothing. And then I performed this whole moxibustion technique on him, and I watched all of his pain completely disappear. And so I really got this firsthand experience of how wrong these people can be, how deeply and dangerously wrong they can be. So we had both had such powerful experiences that I think that foundation, you know, everything that happened to us before we even knew each other also played a lot into it, so that by the time we were together and building a family, we were pretty clear on what we had to navigate. Joel 00:38:49.880 - 00:39:22.290 Yeah, and it's like when you talk about safety for the mother during the birth process, the real safety that's happening on a more subconscious level is she knowing that you've got her back. She knowing that you understand where she's at, what she wants, how she wants things to flow should, you know, unexpected circumstances arise. Like, that's the real safety. It's not all on me. It's not all on me to make decisions and to, like, stand firm into whatever it might be. It's like my partner, my husband, the father, he's there, and he's protecting me on that level as well. Simon 00:39:23.410 - 00:40:46.900 It's huge. I think the part of that safety is knowing that the man is not going to bring his own shit into the birthday, because truthfully, that's sometimes the response that men have. The woman goes into labor. You know, they're in the space of birth. And for the man, sometimes a lot of stuff can come up. You know, hopefully you've done some work leading up to. But it might. It might just bring up fears or any kind of intense thing. And there is a certain amount of internal kung fu you have to be doing so that you may have that, but you don't bring that to her. You don't bring that into the space. You know, you don't give that to anyone else to deal with because you're. You're in a position to be of service. And, you know, I. I've seen this myself. You know, I have family members who, you know, my brother in law, he, he was in, in the birth space, you know, during. And he maybe had some of his own fears come up and things like that, but he did not bring it into the birth experience. You know, he privately dealt with those things and then came back to be the rock that he needed to be. It's so, so important that she feels that you can be there, you can be clear, you can be of service. And getting any part of yourself out of the way that is likely to disturb that is so important as a man. And being able to facilitate that level of availability, of emotional availability of devotion to the moment itself. Joel 00:40:47.060 - 00:40:47.540 Yeah. Simon 00:40:47.780 - 00:40:49.380 Can be transformative for the woman. Yerasimos 00:40:49.380 - 00:40:57.380 In my experience, the essence of the masculine. Instead of what, I'm having a problem, what, Take care of me, you know, take care of me while you're trying to give birth to a baby. Simon 00:40:57.730 - 00:43:29.940 Like what? Yeah, I mean, I've, I've heard stories of this. I, you know, there's people that I've, I've, I've seen things go awry in births that were like that where, you know, the man just was not able to prepare himself and just ended up sort of devolving into a boy during the whole experience. It's, it's powerful because this is a very, very powerful rite of passage. I mean, this is the rite of passage. It is built into nature in every possible way. Birth is designed to transform the man and the woman and the child. It is a rite of passage for every single member of the family. And if you have other children present as well, of course it's transformative for them as well. But you know, for the man, it's a rite of passage that needs to be consciously tackled in a lot of ways. You really need to build your framing and put yourself into it to help create that rite of passage. Because you have to, you have to really pour some devotion into it. For women, a certain amount of the rite of passage is built into just the biological experience itself. When a woman comes up to that moment, you know, the ring of fire they call it, right where the woman is really, really at the crest, the head is cresting. And it's, it's often where the woman psychologically has the I can't do it, I don't think I can do this moment. And she has to overcome that and keep going. You know, that is built into her vehicle's experience of that to a certain extent. But for the man, you've really got to step up and participate in the Rite of passage consciously, because you don't have the advantage of your body being the one that is connected to our whole matrix and that's bringing a life into this physical matrix. Your role is very different. And so, you know, I think it's really important to gather yourself in preparation for a rite of passage. And also I think it's really important to note that the event of the birth is a rite of passage for the child in ways that I think many people don't really understand. The baby is a participant in that. Right? The baby is actually triggering things in the birth. It is things emerging from the baby. It's a co creation with the mother. So it's not all the mother's will. This is something the mother is doing with the child. And it's important to recognize that this is the child's first rite of passage. This is their first struggle through transformation into a new way of being. So you have to protect that for each family member and honor it for what it is. Joel 00:43:30.740 - 00:43:33.420 Beautiful, man. Go Erasmus. Yerasimos 00:43:33.420 - 00:43:49.680 I'll say. How do you think, because you're talking about the baby's rite of passage of coming into this world. How do you think C sections impact or steal away the babies? The child's like that rite of passage of. Of like coming into the world in a more, let's say, natural way. Simon 00:43:50.800 - 00:45:50.650 It is personally my number one thing that is doing that kind of damage. I think that you're not only damaging the mother, to rob the child of that rite of passage is so detrimental because it's so foundational to what they're about to experience on Earth. Right. Your whole life on this planet is composed of different rites of passage. This naturally is built into every life path. There's no human being on Earth that doesn't just have massive rites of passage built into what they are here to experience. And so when the child doesn't have to struggle through the birth canal and experience the vaginal birth and struggle with their mother, and they just get ripped out through their mom's organs, they are being robbed of something that I think should be defended borderline, you know, as. As like a human. Right. I know we sometimes need C sections, but nowhere near where it is. Statistically, it's on the rise right now. And what's crazy is that part of that is women scheduling their own C sections because they don't want to go through the rite of passage of the birth. And to rob their children of that, I think is something that many, many mothers who are making this choice fail to understand. That Child, if it's accessible to them. They need that rite of passage, they need that opportunity. Opportunity to go through the hero's journey. Right. When you go through the hero's journey, you're moving from the known into the unknown. So they're in this beautiful, comfortable space, and then they have to go into the abyss. They have to go into the birth canal and struggle and be compressed and then come out into something they've never, ever experienced. I mean, it's all pure unknown. It is by definition the hero's journey in so many ways. So I think we need to culturally understand that so that medically that's protected. Joel 00:45:51.530 - 00:46:50.810 Yeah, yeah, thanks for that. Yeah. I mean, doctors play, play massive roles, obviously, in, especially obstetricians, many of whom have never even witnessed a natural birth, have no experience in natural birth, have never studied natural birth. And they pre plan even to their. Even through the mother's unknowing, they pre plan that, oh, this is going to be a C section because I've got a schedule, because I've got to get home on time, because I've got to clock out, you know, and then they just swindle the mother. They plant seeds of fear. Oh, their head is too big. Oh, this is abnormal. Oh, this is that. And all of a sudden they've got you, right? The predator has you and you're at the whim. So if again, it's like outsourcing authority, building the knowledge, building the wisdom, building the embodiments. Prior is like just so important when it comes to that moment. Being able to be clear in your authority and not get swindled in these kinds of scenarios, which very often can change the trajectory of the baby's life altogether. Yerasimos 00:46:51.690 - 00:47:26.050 Like a factory, you know, it's like, okay, we gotta, we gotta pop these babies out. Okay, we got someone coming in room two. We got someone coming room three. We got someone coming in room four. We gotta take another baby out. You know, it's like even just the general element of, of the allopathic system, like even going in and spending time with a doctor, what do you have, like, 10 minutes? And then they write you a prescription and then they send you off and another one comes in, as opposed to, let's say a more holistic practitioner that takes the time to be with you, to be present with you, to ask you questions, to get to know you about your life. And so it's like a more natural, holistic birth process. It's like you have to honor the time that this process takes. Simon 00:47:27.090 - 00:47:36.610 Yeah, yeah. And The. The sheer list of things you have to say no to in bringing a human baby into this world. Joel 00:47:36.940 - 00:47:37.340 Yeah. Simon 00:47:37.500 - 00:49:09.410 Is astonishing. It's so many things. I mean, not just the vaccines that begin in the first trimester. You know, it already starts there where they start trying to pressure that. But then all the way through, all the different kinds of testing, you know, the. The threat of the C section or the epidural or circumcision, the. The vitamin K, you know, putting antibiotic drops in their eyes. There is a slew of things that this system wants to do to every human child. No matter what, no questions asked, every baby should get this. And it comes from this fundamental meta narrative that says human beings are born wrong, and unless they are drastically interfered with, then they are in danger. And that meta narrative is very persistent. You know, it. We had an experience with this, with my first son's breastfeeding. So, you know, he was struggling to latch, and it took Amanda actually months of working with him to actually get him to properly latch. So for the first few months of his life, we. She was. Amanda was pumping. And then we would have to put this little tube on our finger with, like, an elastic and then feed him the breast milk by having him suckle on our finger with the breast milk coming through the tube. So, you know, I ended up being a big part of. Of feeding him for these first few months. Now, the threat during that whole time was he has a tongue tie and we have to cut his tongue. Joel 00:49:09.490 - 00:49:10.050 Yeah. Simon 00:49:10.130 - 00:50:39.850 And there is a lot of pressure. There's so much pressure to cut babies tongues based on the idea that they have a tongue tie. And when I looked into this, I found that some of the research that they're citing claims that 50 to 60% of babies are born with a tongue tie. And so I find that very strange that there is a notion that 50 to 60% of children are allegedly born. Born deformed in a way, unable to, you know, connect and to breastfeed because of this. Allegedly. I find that very suspicious. You know, it really reminded me of, you know, other research I'd done in other areas, like. Like in my film Cut, I found the same thing where, you know, they're giving all these young girls labiaplasties based on research that says 50 to 60% of girls have labia minora hypertrophy. So this idea that we are born wrong, that our immune systems aren't enough, that our bodies are born deformed and need to be cut in all these ways, the justification for circumcision for a long time was that penises, as they are, are unhygienic and that you have to cut them or you'll be sick. I mean, this, this meta narrative that we're born wrong has to be confronted. You have to understand all the ways it's going to manifest. And if you're not ready to say no in those situations where you have to say no, then the pressure of that system is going to come bearing down. So there's a certain amount of fortitude and, and situational awareness that's required because of that. Joel 00:50:40.010 - 00:51:00.390 Yeah. And it's so important to understand that all these meta narratives are so financially incentivized that every single crossroad along the way as well, all these inter, all these interferences, they come with costs, which equals higher revenue for hospitals, doctors, physicians, even C sections. Doctors get paid out way more to do a C section birth than they do for a vaginal birth. Simon 00:51:01.270 - 00:51:01.630 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:51:01.630 - 00:51:22.310 And so many of these meta narratives are also built on a flawed understanding of our biology and how it works and based on, I guess, a flawed understanding of what microbes are and how they impact us. So that's a whole nother conversation, you know, especially when you think about vaccines or we have to do this, this intervention because they might cause a disease, or we need to put antibiotics in their eyes. And. Simon 00:51:22.390 - 00:53:27.250 Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, we're in a really weird, messy position because of some of these meta narratives. So one of the tragic things that happened was that for about a 50 year period in the United States, breastfeeding almost disappeared. And this had to do with, of course, lots of propaganda that's based on this, this idea that you need medical interference, you need science. So there was the idea that formula is superior. There was the idea of sort of, you know, feminism, you know, trying to get women back to the workforce, all of these things. And so breastfeeding disappears for this 50 year window. Now there's great research that shows that breast milk is actually passing on antibodies. I mean, it is creating immune protection for things that they're designing vaccines for. So a lot of that is actually in the breast milk itself and is being passed on to the children. So what happened during those 50 years to all those babies, immunologically speaking? And did it create a wave of compromised people who are then used as justification to say, oh my God, we need to start giving, you know, vaccines and interfering. Look at all these outbreaks, look at all these things. We better get in here. How much of that had to do with all these People born without breastfeeding, you know, it's hypothetical. I don't know that we could ever know. But what I've come to recognize is that this, this system is self perpetuating. It, you know, it, it very much functions on a kind of Hegelian dialectic where it's creating the problems that it's then offering the solutions for. So it's important for people to understand that we have never really properly lived as a society in a way that honors human physiology and biology. It's like you said, the misunderstanding of microbes and all of that. There's such a foundational failure to comprehend the human being and what it really is that we have problems that are feeding into each other that require a complete disassociation from all of those meta narratives. Joel 00:53:27.330 - 00:53:43.520 Yeah. And even beyond the, you know, materialistic aspect of the power of breast milk, the simple connection that's robbed from the child, that isn't breastfed, that isn't nurtured, that is a nestle that isn't nourished by being on mom's breast for those formative years. Simon 00:53:44.640 - 00:56:12.400 Yeah, this is a big theme for me. You know, ever since I made my series Superorganism, I haven't been able to let go of that idea. It sticks with me all the time. And it continues to involve this idea that the family unit is a superorganism that is designed for devotion and wisdom, like down to all sorts of very strange and interesting mechanics in terms of family biology and psychology and spirituality. There is so much going on in the family unit when it is allowed to thrive and enter its natural harmony that it would, it would honestly solve a lot of the world's problems if we had stable, healthy families living a natural, sovereign life for numerous generations. Right. It's the multi generational, the epigenetic expression of that is something that I don't think humanity has really explored or achieved at this point. And I think that's where we are in the precipice of all this and why I think the process of reclaiming birth is foundational to, you know, to winning the war, so to speak. I think that families who are sovereign and are allowed to utilize all of these beautiful natural forms of harmony, like you're saying, like with, with breastfeeding, the emotional intelligence and the self regulation capacity that comes from spending that time with the mother, the, the biofeedback that's going on in terms of the state of consciousness that the mother is in while she's breastfeeding and the way that feeds into the heart field. The, the child's body is generating all those forms of feedback that are ongoing. All of this is so, it's so incredibly beautiful and powerful, but it's not really being, it never really has been honored correctly. And so if we are going to look at this from the lens of, you know, flip it around and look at it through the eyes of a Luciferian Satanic globalist. For them, families living this way over numerous generations are impossible to control, impossible to control, and an absolute bane to their, their plans. There is no constructing a new world order or any of that if families are allowed to really lean into the truth of what a family actually is. And I just think it's so much more powerful than we have been able to recognize as a culture. Joel 00:56:14.160 - 00:56:48.260 I mean, you're speaking to such a profound truth there, Simon. I mean, and the strength that comes from a family unit, the love that's cultivated, the belief that's inserted in, in the children, the self belief, the entrepreneurial spirit, the, the self esteem that comes from a deeply connected family unit, then these kids go on to impact and create and innovate in incredibly powerful ways. I mean, this really is the, the primordial thing that requires our attention more than anything else. Man. I'm with you on that. Simon 00:56:50.340 - 00:59:14.730 Yeah, I'm, I'm definitely on a mission to help people understand the power of that and, and what is on their side, like what is on your side physiologically as a man. So here's a good example. I think I've spoken to this before, but I use this example often because it's so illustrative of the, the transformative nature of pregnancy and birth for men. You know, a lot of the studies they've looked into in terms of how men and fathers are impacted by birth have to do with emotional availability. And so they look at what happens when a father is emotionally available during the pregnancy leading up to the birth. And what they find is that it is the, the father's emotional availability that opens him up to the biological influence of the mother's pregnancy. And it starts to transform the man hormonally, neurologically, psychologically. But it's based on his emotional availability during those nine months. One of the things that they've discovered occurs is the rise in prolactin. And they found that men who had this natural rise in prolactin that seemed to be tied to their devotion, their emotional availability programmed their bodies so that their body is more responsive to their baby's cries after the baby is born. And so you are gaining a biological physiological advantage as a man. When you are devoted during the pregnancy. It's actually going to change you in ways that you will not have control over. It will connect you to the child more. Your bond with your child is occurring through the mother and her capacity to transform you as a man. But it is based on devotion. And this is why I really, really believe that we are designed on a very deep level to be devoted to each other within a family unit. And that actually being available, being present, being devoted to, changes us so that we're on a different life path in terms of the way that our vehicle functions. And that's so, so powerful for men to recognize. It's one of the ways you can frame this rite of passage. It's not just about the conscious changes you make to yourself. It's about offering a level of devotion that will naturally change you beyond your own control. Joel 00:59:17.450 - 00:59:30.370 Beautiful man. I want to dig a bit deeper there. How would you, I guess, describe or define devotion on a deeper level? What. What does a devoted man look, sound and feel like? Simon 00:59:34.210 - 01:03:23.150 There is the capacity, first of all, to recognize when parts of yourself are interfering with others and interfering with your life. So just foundationally to notice that you have parts of yourself that can be disturbed from whatever you've gone through in your life. And that you can be in a moment of interaction. Let's say you're in a moment and there's an opportunity for devotion. But this part of yourself comes up and it's chaotic. It's, you know, traumatized or, you know, it's experiencing its own. Its own struggle based off of what you've been through. So first of all, you have to have the capacity to see your own forms of interference, right? The way in which you're undealt with aspects can interfere with your relations from the level of awareness, of noticing, oh, my gosh, look at this part of me. It really wants to interfere with, you know, with my beloved right here. It is part of me. I can see it. So then you have to develop the ability to put aside that which could interfere with the moment and offer yourself truly to become clear in that moment. And so it doesn't mean you suppress or ignore that, but you have enough awareness to be able to empty yourself of that which does not serve you or your beloved. You have to have this ability. And so for me, you know, a lot of this came from painful lessons as a father. You know, really deep mistakes, I would say. You know, and I think a lot of fathers experience this as a Man, you carry a lot of intensity. And men often go to anger more often. And one of the things I started to notice very early on as a father was that moments where my traumatized inner child would come up and where my anger would be fed by trauma I had gone through in my own childhood, I started to have enough awareness in those moments that I could see myself becoming blind to my child's innocence in that moment. And I. I would watch it. I would watch it fade away. So it was a kind of. It was like a meta awareness, right. I was. I was able to watch all these things playing out and as I watched it and just. And not judge it, right. Not be furious or judgmental with myself. It was pure observational silence that gave me the capacity to notice these moments and to see, whoa, my perception is being interfered with extensively. And I cannot see my child. I can't see them truly who they are in this moment. And it was the power to admit that to myself, you know, the power of admitting that and of recognizing, you know, the way moments of anger arising from trauma could blind me to who my child really was in that moment. Yeah, that woke me up to the power of honoring that part of myself that needed the work. But knowing that, you know, I have tools that I don't have to have that part of myself, it doesn't have to have any authority in the moment. It doesn't have to have input on what. How I'm offering myself to them, because I have the ability to, even if I may be disturbed internally, silence my mind, not allow my mind to use that trauma to develop a new narrative to run me off in the direction of internal dialogue that then feeds those, you know, those internal loops. So slowly developing that capacity, slowly, slowly over time, watching yourself as a man, very, very carefully, so that you can be clear enough in moments of devotion to not interfere with that opportunity for devotion. That's really what it's meant for me. Joel 01:03:23.230 - 01:04:17.080 Yeah, I appreciate that, man, a lot. The paradoxical thing, and like, at least in my personal journey is that much of my growing as a man and into, I guess, more man psychology from boy psychology, has been through this process of birth and fatherhood. And it's like looking back on how I was and what I brought to the table, you know, with my firstborn seven years ago, compared to what I brought to the table, you know, with my third born just nine months ago. There has to be a level of self acceptance in that process as well, you know, because very often, you know, I guess men who come into fatherhood, like 26 years old, younger or 28 years old. Like, it's very hard to have that kind of level of psychological fortitude, awareness, etc at that point in time. And it's almost like the process is required for you to evolve into that man that you can admire more. Simon 01:04:17.080 - 01:05:34.970 So, yeah, fatherhood is the thing to transform men. Yeah, it's the, it's the best possible way to transform men. Now that doesn't mean, of course, like you're saying, it doesn't mean you want to go into it as early as possible or that men should be rushing to fatherhood, but we should recognize that if, if moved into correctly, it can, it can guide you, it can guide you in healing and transforming yourself. As long as, you know, there has to be a certain level of accountability. And like you said, like you can't, you can't slip into self hatred. It's so easy. I think for a lot of fathers, this is a trap that I've seen, you know, in, in men in my life that they use fatherhood against themselves. So it becomes a form of weapon of judgment, of pressure, and they abuse themselves internally based off of the pressure of fatherhood. And it, it's a very, very tricky thing to do, you know, to, to, to step into this role of being a provider and of being a role model. And you know, really recognizing this is something that I think Matt Boudreau talks about. He runs Apogee and you know, he's, he talks about the fact that if you're homeschooling, you know, if you're homeschooling, unschooling, all of this, you, who you are, is their curriculum. Joel 01:05:34.970 - 01:05:35.610 Yep. Simon 01:05:36.410 - 01:07:17.890 And that is a big responsibility to take on. That is a lot of pressure. But I think the keystone here is the multi generational aspect is recognizing that we can pass on wisdom that will prepare men to become fathers, that will give men the tools to step into this correctly. And if we are doing that generation after generation, then I think we'll have more men who just understand the opportunity and are able to bring their best to it. Because there's a multi generational line of wisdom that is really framing that correctly for them. And so, you know, I've personally, I, I joke around all the time because, you know, my son, of course he's copying me. He's imitating me in many, many, many, many ways. And so sometimes he imitates me as a father with his little brother and he starts, you know, trying to do his own version of what I do as A father. And you know, I'll talk about it. I'll be like, oh yeah, I see. Trying to be a dad here. Yeah, not yet. But you know, we, we in a light hearted way talk about it. And I think framing the role of fatherhood and masculinity with boys very early on is super important. You know, and talking to them about that and what it means and you know, your insights along the way and, and the fact that they transform you and, and putting that on the table, you know, I, I talk to my kids all the time. If I make a big mistake and I, I go and own it and apologize and speak with them about it, you know, showing them the transformation, them watching me become a different man based on what I've been through, that's super important. And I think if this again, if this happens over and over again for generations, humanity will transform. Joel 01:07:18.770 - 01:07:19.210 Yeah. Yerasimos 01:07:19.210 - 01:07:56.270 Simon, I have a question and this is for you know, for you Joel as well. Do you think the language of sacrifice has been like programmed into men as well where there's this like I have to sacrifice, I have to do all these things. It's for the family and it's almost like, of that, almost like the, I don't know if it relates to the self hating thing but it's like this contracted place of like I'm sacrificing myself for my family and my kids as opposed to my family and kids are super high value of mine and I'm doing these things because I value them. Like it's a simple reframe. Joel 01:07:56.350 - 01:07:56.710 Yeah. Yerasimos 01:07:56.710 - 01:08:10.130 That I feel like that, that like what does sacrifice mean? I mean it's like I'm sacrificing myself at some point. It's intense but everyone uses it. I hear people all the time. It's a sacrifice I gotta make. It's a sacrifice I'm sacrificing myself. It's like I'm just piling on more burdens. Joel 01:08:10.530 - 01:08:11.010 Yeah. Yerasimos 01:08:11.090 - 01:08:16.810 Not, not to discount the reality of the burdens that exist, but it's like, it's just like the consciousness of that. Joel 01:08:16.810 - 01:09:14.350 Word and I mean particularly like you know, for first generational families like Erasmus and I. You know, my first generation Australian, he's a first generational, like it was very much so. Like we fled, they fled these war torn, war torn countries, they fled these poverty ridden situations. They fled a worse for better thing. And then the programming of that, everything I did for you, I put a roof over your head. I, you know, and I think it, that kind of works to enable this idea that all men need to do is provide. You know, where I think where we're going is that that provisional level is the bare minimum, the provisional level on a financial side of things, but it's like, where are you providing on an emotional level, on a spiritual level? And this is kind of the next evolution. Where we need to get to as men is like, that's the freaking putting a roof over your kid's head, putting food in their mouth, making sure rent is paid, noble pursuits, 100%. But it's the bare minimum, right? Simon 01:09:15.950 - 01:11:38.720 You know, it's funny because this idea of fatherly devotion as the dad who works non stop, I think has been really misleading. That, that's, it's funny, that's robbed a lot of men of what I'm speaking to here, right? How many fathers, because of that notion, the pressure of the baby on the way they go and they work double time, overtime, extra. But actually it removes them from being in the biofield of the mother that was going to transform them. If their mindset was more about presence and devotion in that way, then they would get this form of physiological transformation that would actually end up connecting them to their family more. And so this idea of the, the burden of fatherhood, especially through the material burden, I think has disassociated a lot of men from the opportunity to be actually devoted in a way that is transformative to them. So if you're a man that is grinding all the time and you're away all the time, you may be providing materially in ways that are important, but the absence of your presence is you missing out to a certain extent on that rite of passage. And I think a lot of men, because this is the way things played out, just biologically speaking, you're not, you're gonna have to work a lot more to be connected to that child. Just like I was talking about earlier, there are actual connections that form between you and the baby that are based on your presence during those nine months. So I wonder, you know, I wonder to what extent are a lot of men feeling bitterness and resentment because of the burden. And part of that is because they didn't experience some of the transformations that come from devoted presence that would actually help them develop a clearer mindset and a clear sense of sacrifice that made sense. So sometimes, sometimes sacrifice is making a little bit less money to have more presence. That might be the correct sacrifice. It might be totally different. You have to understand what it is really going to mean in terms of, you know, the way that your family is moving and growing and evolving. So, you know, that word sacrifice, I think, often gets pigeonholed into this idea of just pure material grinding. And I think that a lot of men are missing out because of that. Joel 01:11:38.960 - 01:12:22.000 And how much of that pure material grinding is actually not necessarily informed by, you know, noble pursuits, but more so informed by, like, fear, scarcity, insecurity programming. Like, all of a sudden there's another mouth to feed. So, you know, I just need to go balls to the wall in this whole other way in order to, quote, unquote, do my job. But your job is so much more than that. And I have extreme empathy for the father in the situation that does have to provide, because it is really difficult to come into these next levels of devotion, of real emotional connection, etc. If the man in the back of his head is like, I'm failing on the foundational front. Simon 01:12:22.560 - 01:12:23.000 It's like. Yerasimos 01:12:23.000 - 01:12:26.560 It's like the parental Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Joel 01:12:26.560 - 01:12:27.320 Yeah, exactly. Yerasimos 01:12:27.320 - 01:12:34.560 You know, where it's like, how can you actualize with your family if you're just like, I just gotta put food on the table. I need to provide shelter, things of that nature. Simon 01:12:34.880 - 01:12:35.360 I don't know. Yerasimos 01:12:35.360 - 01:12:36.360 That thought just came to me. Simon 01:12:36.360 - 01:12:36.680 And. Joel 01:12:36.680 - 01:12:53.720 And also, I just want to add another layer of texture to this kind of conversation. Is like, what I've noticed within myself is in. In being devoted to my purpose and my mission beyond the family. I find myself more devoted to my family when I'm with them as well. Simon 01:12:55.160 - 01:12:57.560 Yeah, yeah. There is a feedback. There you go. Yerasimos 01:12:57.880 - 01:13:21.200 Well, you also brought up the whole resentment and bitterness thing. And like, so much of this is happening on a subconscious level. And then you talk about men that maybe haven't done the necessary inner work, don't have the emotional intelligence. And so that bitterness and resentment, what does that then lead them to? What behaviors, what actions that then further disassociate them from themselves, their partner, their families? I mean, it's this vicious cycle. Simon 01:13:21.280 - 01:14:16.280 Yeah, it is. Because if they're, you know, if they missed out on that opportunity to, you know, create these physiological bonds between the child and the mother. Right. If they miss out on that, there's a little bit of a disassociation that's going on there. And then if we sort of paint this picture of the. The modern man who's. Then, you know, the baby's born, he just goes back to work, and he's just being conditioned by his work environment most of the time. Not being conditioned by his family, but more his work environment. What kind of man is he becoming then? If he's got this little bit of disassociation from his family because he didn't experience that. Those chances to bond, and he's just being conditioned by his workplace. Exactly. Like a lot of men, I think they end up in a place where they. They don't feel connected to the family in the way that is nourishing for them. And they might end up cheating or they might end up going and making all these big mistakes because they. They don't understand that there's a connection that they missed out on and rationalizing. Yerasimos 01:14:16.280 - 01:14:19.920 And justifying it, because it's like, I do all this for my family. I provide. Joel 01:14:20.480 - 01:14:20.880 Yeah. Yerasimos 01:14:20.880 - 01:14:21.440 And so. Joel 01:14:22.240 - 01:15:06.870 Yeah. And then, you know, the question begs is, what is the relationship between actually having a real devoted physiological connection to the family and prosperity and abundance and material windfalls that might open up, which never would have if you're just going this scarcity, roots of being away from the family all the time, trading time for dollars, etc. You know, it's like through connection with the family, through devotion to your wife, to your partner, whatever it might be like, on an energetic level, things can open where doors open, where doors didn't exist, ideas come forth, the entrepreneurial spirit awakens to a greater capacity, you know, so I like to believe that we can have it all. Simon 01:15:08.070 - 01:15:49.450 Yeah, no, I feel you. I think there is. There is an opportunity that the family can create for abundance. Because if it's connecting you to just the clarity of family devotion, you know, the sense of purpose it can give you, that clarity is such an anchor. And I like what you said about, you know, being connected to your mission outside of the family and the way that. That plays into your devotion to the family and the way they really start to. To lift each other up, you know, your devotion to the human family, to the human collective, and to be of service to that and. And the way that can play into abundance, you know, it's hard. I'm not gonna lie. Like, it is difficult. You're threading the needle. Joel 01:15:49.650 - 01:15:50.130 Oh, yeah. Simon 01:15:51.010 - 01:15:57.250 But the family strategically can be used to thread that needle as opposed to crushing yourself as a man. Joel 01:15:57.570 - 01:16:37.190 Yeah. And knowing your real values is so important in this process. And I've shared this before, but what I find for me, like, I can't do my job to the best of my ability, sitting at this desk, recording a podcast, building coaching programs, you know, being present in my communities, etc, if there's problems in my household, if my relationships are fractured, if I'm. If I'm not connected to my kids, so it's like I've found within my own personal experience that that needs to be handled and that needs to be connected for me to do the best job that I can possibly do when I'm here in front of this computer right now, you know. Simon 01:16:38.150 - 01:16:40.710 Oh, man, I've experienced that in such real ways. Joel 01:16:40.790 - 01:16:41.270 Yeah. Simon 01:16:42.220 - 01:17:00.780 Oh, my God. I mean, there's been times, there's been harder times in our life where things were, you know, we're maybe moving through a really, really difficult passage. And, you know, it might have been a time where, you know, our stress, the kids are playing out our stress. So maybe the boys are fighting more. And, you know, boys just fight a lot. Joel 01:17:01.580 - 01:17:02.860 My girls fight a lot. Super. Simon 01:17:03.180 - 01:18:58.170 Oh, dude. I'm just like, you know, the fighting is crazy, but, but it's, it's, it's appropriate. It's fine. But, you know, there are times I've certainly had moments where there's been chaos, you know, chaos in the house, and then I have to go into a podcast interview and I have to really, like, reflect on that and be like, okay, today was not a balanced day, you know. You know, I really had to work so much harder to bring myself to the moment just because things are a little bit whack right now. There's things that we maybe need to address that, you know, some of the challenges you have with kids, some of them are long term struggles where you're like, oh, okay, my kid needs to be nourished in this way. But that's going to take us, like, really months to address. We're gonna have to do these, like, all these little steps. And so for a while we're gonna have to accept that, like, maybe their behavior is like a little bit whack in this way. And it's like, it's gonna cause challenges or, you know, for example, one of my sons is. He's a projector. He's a splenic projector. So, you know, he has not come into this life with a ton of physical energy. He's not here for that. And so sometimes, you know, he can really struggle with tiredness. Really, really struggle with tiredness. And when he gets really tired, he gets really emotionally chaotic and it can really ripple into the rest of the family. And he's seven, so, you know, he's got the emotional capacity of a seven year old. That is what it is. Yeah, but, but I've noticed many times when it's like, oh, goodness, okay, so he needs to be nourished on such a deep level that he's going to be rested enough that he's not in emotional chaos. And then that's not going to ripple into like, the other things that I'm doing. And so noticing that balance and really watching that balance. Yeah, it's a good tightrope to learn to walk. Joel 01:18:58.670 - 01:19:29.600 Yeah, definitely. My, my eldest in human design is a reflector, you know, so, yes, similar, similar again, man, but and also understanding and you know, where like, her ability to amplify everyone else's emotional turbulence as well and like getting her to have the sermon between what's hers, what's not hers, etc, it's. And like under understanding human design and understanding your. Your kids human design on this level, it's like it requires. This very. Requires so much more nuance in parenting. Simon 01:19:29.600 - 01:21:38.760 It does, it does. So, I mean, one of the best things human design gives you is this idea of the family as a penta, right? That you create a superorganism, you create an aura that functions totally differently when you as a family unit are together. And so you all step into very specific roles when you're under the influence of each other. And I think traveling together as this aura, you know, through life, I, you know, I think about that image often and what has to be done to balance that. And I really try to take a lot of responsibility for the, the emotional, you know, state of my family. I am the only emotionally defined person in the family, so I really have to respect that A lot of the time. What's coming through the rest of my family is some amplification of what I'm putting out there. And so if I'm, you know, the, the worst combo in my situation is if I'm emotionally chaotic and. And my youngest is tired, then it's like such a crazy combo that really has to be like, dealt with in a very careful way. And I really have to recognize how much capacity I have to not output emotional chaos and to really deal with that correctly. And so you start to recognize when you spend this much time together, it's so powerful being an unschooling family the way we are, we spend so much time together. But when you really spend this much time together as a family, it's finding the harmony of a family unit. I mean, it's hard work because there's so many nuanced dynamics going on, but is one of the most beautiful things to discover and to really uncover the chemistry of your family and to notice those dynamics or to notice what changes in the kids when it's just me and them and Amanda is away and how they. They operate differently because they're no longer in our full family penta. And their behavior does change. Their capacity to deal with things is altered, you know, all of those nuances. It does come back to the devotion piece and the presence piece, because if you can be present with the nuanced dynamics of your family unit, you can be of service in ways that are totally. I don't know, they're anti mainstream for sure, but they're even counterintuitive sometimes. Joel 01:21:38.840 - 01:21:39.320 Yeah. Simon 01:21:39.400 - 01:21:41.320 And it's really helpful to recognize that. Joel 01:21:41.480 - 01:22:25.730 Yeah, I love this reflection, man. You know, we're an Unsulling family of five as well, also living abroad, so we don't have, you know, any of our families. My. My parents or her parents or whatever might be connected to us as well. And, bro, it's like we spend a lot of time together. Like, we are all we have in so many ways, you know, and at times it is really hard. It is really tricky. But I mean, the payoff of being disconnected to my kids cannot be traded for anything. The. The payoff of having this level of intimate knowledge of who my children are from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to sleep to the moment they wake up the next day, like, that's my life, man. Simon 01:22:26.450 - 01:22:26.850 Why? Joel 01:22:26.850 - 01:22:36.130 Like, that's more than anything else. When I get to the end, it's gonna be like, I. I knew my kids, and that's. That's more meaningful to me than anything else. Simon 01:22:37.250 - 01:23:21.500 It's it, man. It's it. It's everything. Intimately being with my kids on this journey and, you know, seeing their hero's journey, seeing what story they're the hero of, what they're here to struggle with, you know, which struggles are correct for them and letting them struggle where it's correct, all those kinds of things. I'm so grateful, even with all the difficulties it's caused. And it's like you said, it's really difficult to spend this much time together. But. But I reflect on how. How difficult it was for me to get along within my family unit growing up. And. And. And I wonder about how much of that dysfunction was actually from just not correctly spending time together, you know? Joel 01:23:21.740 - 01:23:23.980 Yeah, yeah, man, I hear you. Simon 01:23:24.380 - 01:23:24.700 We. Joel 01:23:24.700 - 01:23:30.300 We're flipped in my household. So four of us have emotional authorities, and there's my reflector illness, daughter. Simon 01:23:30.380 - 01:23:34.700 Oh. Oh, my gosh. That's a lot of emotional waves. Joel 01:23:34.860 - 01:23:39.580 It's a lot of emotional waves, man. I must. Yeah, I can't imagine her experience in that for sure. Yerasimos 01:23:40.590 - 01:23:44.270 One manifestor one generator, one M. Or do you have two MGs? Joel 01:23:45.630 - 01:23:46.910 Yeah, some M. Yeah. Yerasimos 01:23:46.990 - 01:23:48.510 And then. Yeah, Reflector. Simon 01:23:48.830 - 01:25:08.800 Yeah, yeah. We have. Amanda and Idris are both splenic projectors. And then Asher is a pure generator. And. And I'm a manifesting generator. So it's, you know, such good information, such helpful information to have. Oh, my gosh. So. Just so strategic. And so I think, you know, it's important for people to understand that this whole process of devotion and birth and pregnancy, this is the opportunity of a lifetime. It. It really is the opportunity of a lifetime to completely. Excuse me. To completely change everything for yourself. And I saw this really simple video. Elon Musk shared this the other day. It was just a really simple mindset video where this guy said that laziness is just the mental habit of thinking about the work you have to do instead of the result. And that was the only framing he had. But. But he really felt after his own process that there's this mental habit of being like, oh, man, I got all this work to do. Like, you know, just getting stuck in thinking about, like, the grind and how much work it's going to take rather than just putting your mind on, like, when I'm done that work, here's what I'm going to have. You know, here's. Here's what's going to come to me. Here's what I'm going to be able to give to the world. And I think that there's. There's a role here that needs to be played by culture, Right? Joel 01:25:09.120 - 01:25:09.600 Yeah. Simon 01:25:09.760 - 01:26:09.130 What we create in terms of cultural ideals acts like a compass for us as a collective. And so if in our culture we can correctly frame the family unit as the most powerful, beautiful, transformative opportunity in human existence, because it is, then culturally, we're going to be guiding people. We're going to be giving them that compass so that they can look towards the beauty of that rather than get stuck in some of these other mindsets where it's like, I've just got to sacrifice and bear the burden and just, like, destroy my body to just make sure the kids, you know, go to the expensive school or, like, have, you know, certain opportunities that I'm told I'm supposed to create for them. I just think culturally, we have so much work to do to generate a new ideal of the family unit that gives people this, you know, the beauty and the power that it contains in that way that. That is guiding, like a guiding light. Joel 01:26:09.130 - 01:26:35.850 Yeah. And very often that requires you to walk away from the culture and you be the torchbearer and start the culture for yourself. Started at home, within your own household. Embody these ideals, embody these values, and then be the flame that bridges other people together, you know, because. What's that C.S. lewis quote? When the whole world is running off the cliff, you know, what is it? The same man that's going the other way, whatever it might be? I don't know the exact quote. I've fully butchered that. But I think we get it. Simon 01:26:36.650 - 01:26:39.850 I saw it in my mind, peeling away from the cliff. Joel 01:26:41.370 - 01:26:48.670 You know, it's. It's. It's on you to take these ideals. You're not getting it from outside of you, so you have to plant these seeds within your own house. Simon 01:26:49.710 - 01:27:06.430 Yeah. I mean, that's the whole idea of being counterculture. And these days, being counterculture is, to an extent, diving into family with this level of devotion. So, you know, I really. I am a big advocate at this point for men to be physically involved with the birth. Joel 01:27:06.990 - 01:27:07.470 Yep. Simon 01:27:07.470 - 01:27:56.910 To go beyond being even just the supportive bystander and to be actively involved in the process. I really believe that there's so much there that can transform the man and I, the. The process of preparing for the birth, you know, with the woman, like, together, you doing actual work together to prepare your bodies and your minds. I believe strongly that men need that way more than they realize. And I think a lot of men have been led to the idea that birth is kind of like a freaky, scary thing. They don't want to watch. You know, they'll just wait in the hospital hallway while it all goes down while some strangers manhandle their wife's bodies. It's also alien to me, but. But. But it is still quite. Quite a normalized thing to me. Joel 01:27:56.910 - 01:28:23.350 Like, it's just like the least masculine thing possible. Like, I don't care how you present outside of the birth process. If when it comes to birth, you're like, I don't want to be in the room or whatever it might be, it's like, dude, you've been cast. In my opinion, you've been castrated at that point. If that's the thing that you turn away from, yet you present to be such a masculine hero outside of that scenario. Like, that's where. That's where it counts, man. That's where it counts. Simon 01:28:24.150 - 01:29:51.470 Yes. That's where you step up. That's exactly where you step up. But it's interesting because the call is very much to do with the. The archetype of the philosopher king. Right. Of the Warrior poet because you're not being called to be. It's not the same call as like the men being called to war to defend the women and the children and to defend, you know, the food from the enemies and the territory from the enemies. It's the call of the warrior poet. It's very different. So it's like, yeah, you need to sort of like man up in a way. But it's not about going and getting jacked and being able to like take someone down because it's about emotional availability as well and about presence. So that aspect, you got a man up, but in that way where you're able to be present and be soft and available enough inside of yourself so that you can receive the experience. But then you also have to have that firm part of yourself that's ready to say no. When all of these pressures are going to come bearing down potentially on the birth of your children and on your partner, you have to have that warrior who's ready to say no, but the poet who's ready to be emotionally available and the mastery of that. Part of it is like a big ask for you and part of it is just, you have a huge advantage. Use the family. You will be transformed. If you devote yourself to it, you'll gain advantages. It's like a video game. Like you get, you know, you get these like upgrades if you're able to do that. You know, it's XP. It's total XP. Joel 01:29:51.550 - 01:32:27.720 Yeah, for sure, man. Totally, dude. Like in 2018, when Alyssa first became pregnant, like actually like understanding the medical, the medicalization, the corruption of birth was a big part of our personal awakening process. You know, I think vaccines came in 2015 and then it was birthed in 2018. I think we watched back then it was the business of being born with Ricky Lake actually, which was a powerful documentary back then. And we were living in my parents house still at this time and we decided to have a home birth in my parents, in my parents house. And you know, talking about how important energetics are, like in hindsight, like obviously different decisions probably would have been made, but the plan was to have a home birth. We had a doula, we had midwives for this, for this first experience. And it was a prolonged labor. It was ended up being 36 hours, what whatnot. But like my parents were in the house, they were hearing Alyssa labor. You know, Alyssa's father came to visit at some point during the labor to kind of check in, in his own fear, in his own worry. And just thinking about the dysfunction in the energetics that kind of led to the situation. You know, ultimately Valley, my eldest, there was like a deflexed head situation. So Alyssa got to the pushing phase, but was pushing for such a long time and nothing was happening. So the decision then made to transfer to the hospital. And then at that point in time, it looked like it was going a C section route for a while, but then she got away and it didn't end up being a C section situation. There was a different kind of intervention. But then Valley was born. And then all of a sudden, the entire plan, the entire birth plan went out the window. It wasn't the home birth situation. Now we're in a hospital, now there's different threats happening. And so they immediately take Valley and Alyssa is immobile at this point in time. It's like, Joel, this is on you now for the very first birth. So, like, I'm following now Valley out of the birth room to watch everything that they're doing to protect her, you know, as a 28 year old. And it's like, you know, okay, we're going to give her these vaccines. And I'm like, no, you're not. Like, this simply isn't happening. This is an in Sutherland Hospital in Sydney. Then they're like, you're being incredibly negligent. We're going to go and talk to your wife. And so they leave me and they go and talk to Alyssa and they try to convince Elisa that Joel's being negligent and that, you know, Valley, my oldest daughter, needs all this stuff. Just like how quickly the role has to shift between the poet, between the warrior in, in these moments, you know, and we need to be able to step into those things with, with fluids, with fluidity and with dynamism. Yerasimos 01:32:27.960 - 01:32:29.800 And for you and your wife to be on the same page. Joel 01:32:29.880 - 01:33:28.510 Exactly, man, exactly. And then thinking back to the most recent birth, nine months ago with my youngest Yeta, like, this was completely unassisted birth in a foreign country. No midwife, no doula. Just me, my wife and my daughters, who are asleep for most of it. And it's like, yeah, I got you. Let's do this. We're on the same page. No one else is in the house. It's just us. We're holding the vision. We know where this is going. And it was the most beautiful experience of my life. You know, I was the first person to hold my, hold my daughter. Like, you know, I don't like the word delivered whatsoever, but like, I caught her as she was coming out and the evolution, man, in, in, in. That is just. Yeah, it's, it's, it's. It's unspeakable how beautiful those moments are. And you have to be willing to see all of it. Like, there is nothing more raw, nothing more primal, nothing more powerful, nothing that will snap you into presence, like witnessing a birth. Nothing. You want to talk about presence? Simon 01:33:29.070 - 01:33:29.670 Be a. Joel 01:33:29.670 - 01:33:31.150 You know, be present at a birth. Simon 01:33:32.030 - 01:34:04.580 Yes, absolutely. Oh, dude, it's so beautiful the way you described all of that. It's so powerful that. Yeah. That capacity is to switch in between and just God. It's so. It's unspeakably powerful to be present during that experience and to, to be able to, to connect with the creation. The firstborn aspect of it, I think is very beautiful because what's being born is a family unit. Joel 01:34:05.060 - 01:34:05.540 Yes. Simon 01:34:06.660 - 01:34:33.009 That's what's happening at the firstborn. A family unit is being born. And that's, it's just unspeakably immense in its power and potential. It's, it's. It's overwhelming, honestly, to even sometimes try to hold in myself the actual potential that is contained in these moments. And I think there's such an opportunity for men to use this. It's such an untapped resource. Joel 01:34:33.250 - 01:34:33.730 Yeah. Simon 01:34:33.730 - 01:36:58.770 Men to evolve and heal and transform. It's so huge. It's so huge. And I think your story is so important because it's, it's really, you know, we. You want to go into, into your birthing experience with a good plan, but with the ability to move. You know, we had our hospital bag packed. We were ready to go to the hospital if it was necessary. Right. You have to be prepared in all the ways. But I think, you know, this. It points to one of the reasons why statistically the home birth is so much safer. And I would say that the main reason is the number of things you have to say no to suddenly drops exactly right. Like all of a sudden you're actually going to need that warrior less and be able to move into the poet. Right. You can go from, from, you know, one to the other. You're going to get more of a chance to be that, that silent, supportive being in the home birthing space, in your own home, in a space that you control, especially because you're not going to have to be on the defensive the whole time. And if you want to create some ease for yourself, then maybe don't surround yourself with a bunch of people who. They're cognitively influenced. You know, I come back to the cognitive piece a lot. Right. The way that they function cognitively, has been altered. So they've been conditioned by these meta. These meta narratives we've been speaking to this whole time. And conditioning is a really important process to understand. You know, if you look at cognition as being broken down by attention, perception, memory, and thinking, well, attention and perception are really the biggest things there in terms of what narrative conditioning changes in us. Because the way. The basic way that this whole world works as far as influencing our cognition goes, is that we are conditioned by narratives. And when you are seated into the same narrative over and over again, your attention being brought to that narrative eventually shifts your perception. And this is a very, very deep way that human beings can be manipulated. We're just very vulnerable to this conditioning as human beings. And so I see all these people in the hospital system, all these doctors and nurses, their cognition has been fundamentally altered so that their perception is totally different. And so to be up against that, that's a very intense thing to have to defend yourself from, because they're never going to be able to correct their perception. To understand what's really going on, you have to deal with people who are almost living in a different way. Reality. Joel 01:36:58.850 - 01:37:20.930 Exactly, man. Exactly. And like, the final evolution for us when it came to the third birth was we're not even going to tell anyone when the labor process starts. We're not selling your mom. We're not selling my mom. No one's worried. No one's projection, no one's. Nothing is coming into this container on any level, physical, spiritually, at all. It's this. We're just having this process us contained. Simon 01:37:21.810 - 01:37:24.290 Yeah. So awesome. Congratulations, man. Joel 01:37:24.430 - 01:37:32.430 Thank you. Wonderful. But you learn, man. We had to learn. Like. Yeah. And it was. It was beautiful. It was perfect in the end. Yeah. Simon 01:37:34.430 - 01:40:05.470 I think that there's this. This opportunity now, and I really appreciate, you know, Kristen Nagel, you know, her work. She, you know, helping found this whole conference and bringing this forward. Oh, broken glass. Did you guys see the recent video that she did speaking about her experience as a prenatal. As a nurse with prenatals? So she had this, you know, she was on the way forward, you know, with Alex Eck, and she's discussing her coming out of that. That conditioning, her coming out of that, that. Those meta narratives, because she's working as a nurse and they're giving preemies vaccines, and over and over again, these preemie babies are having seizures, they're getting sick. But it was normalized. So when they would go and fill out the reports after having given all these preemie babies, vaccines. They'd be like, oh, yeah, he's having fits. He's having seizures. You know, it's just like, that's what happens when you give the preemies the vaccines. And she eventually, over time, was just like, the hell is this? And had to sort of wait. And she became ostracized within the, you know, the community of nurses that she was working within because she just couldn't normalize that anymore. And I think it speaks to, you know, what I was speaking to earlier to an extent that you can be so warped that you can be unable to see innocence and vulnerability in our most innocent and vulnerable beings. You can be blinded to that through conditioning very easily or through normalized forms of trauma. You know, and all these nurses that are right now in this moment injecting, you know, preemie babies, the most vulnerable beings on earth, and watching them go into seizures and still perceiving it as a form of service, this is a very, very deep level of warping human beings. And I think understanding that's so important. And it's why I think, you know, the creation of the Reclaiming Birth Conference, coming from someone who actually came out of that conditioning, who was in the depths of that system and that conditioning, and actually had to reformulate her own cognition and then push things forward in this way, I think it's really important and really powerful. So I just feel that, you know, bringing people to this conference and this year being the first year that they've invited men and fathers into it and amping up the conversation that way, it's just so important that. That this conference is available to people right now. I can't think of anything more important. Joel 01:40:06.030 - 01:40:27.170 Yeah, man. And I think that's amazing, bro. And it's like, if there is a visible signpost and symptom of Satanism in our world, it's what you're just speaking to. It's this blunting and this muting of our own intuition, of our own instincts, of our own humanity when it comes to the most innocent and vulnerable amongst us, you know. Simon 01:40:28.530 - 01:42:29.700 Yeah. Moral inversion to me is the intentional destruction of the innocent. Right. Is. Is to destroy innocence for the sake of destroying innocence. Now, that doesn't mean that. That these nurses are in that frame set. Obviously, the frame of mind. Obviously not. But when we talk about this high level of, like, social engineering, you know, this conspiratorial notion of people who have been engineering us in a certain direction, well, I do believe that there are people who comprehend what it means to condition a society into sacrificing its own children. And we can be conditioned to sacrifice our own children and not really deeply recognize what is going on. And I think that, that this, you know, the idea of the war on innocence, that's really what this is. There is this large scale moral inversion going on where innocence is destroyed and it is seen as a form of service. It's so deeply, deeply twisted, but it needs to be exposed for what it is. And the pain of people waking up to recognize what they participated in. You know, like, you know, I think of the way that Kristen Nagel must have had to go through this process and reflect on, on her participation in that system. You could really go a lot of ways with that. Right. You could carry immense guilt and, and, and, you know, horrible feelings inside yourself for the ways that you used to participate in that system or the children that, that, that were harmed or any of that. But the truth is that all of us are going through that to a certain extent. All of us are working out of our systems the moral inversion that they have really tried to implant in as many people as possible. And that a lot of that has to do with the capacity to protect innocence and vulnerability correctly. But for that, you need to be able to perceive correctly what is going on in each given circumstance. Joel 01:42:30.170 - 01:42:52.410 Yeah. Beautiful man. Simon, I'm so glad that we, we've had this chance to have this conversation. I really feel like it's rarefied air when three men can come together and speak to this in, in this kind of way. So I appreciate so much your commentary here for sure. Tell us a bit more about this Reclaiming the Birth Conference article available. How can people be involved? Because obviously this is paramount. Simon 01:42:54.010 - 01:45:32.470 So the Reclaiming Birth conference is occurring September 19th and 20th. Physically, it's in London, Ontario here in Canada. But there is access to virtual tickets. So it's really something that anyone can get access to. And we're just looking at such a huge wealth of wisdom of people that have been on the front lines really trying to actually reclaim birth. You know, I have my own personal experiences with my births that I'm really excited to share more about and to sort of strategically place into this larger tapestry. But you have midwives and nurses and doulas and people that are bringing a wealth of cutting edge wisdom that can save. I really believe it's, you know, saving lives and saving children's life paths is so. It's so important to recognize how, how incredibly important those first moments of life are. You know, in human design, you're Looking at the, the moment of birth, the first moment that the child is separate from the mother's body is when they're imprinted by what's going on, you know, in the stars and what's going on with the flow of neutrinos. To me, that it's so beautiful in the way that that tells us how important that moment is, that first moment of life, and how important it is to honor that. And so reclaiming birth to me and this conference, it's about protecting that moment, this split second in time that's so incredibly precious and so unbelievably fleeting that we have to be doing a lot of work collectively to start protecting those little blips. You know, this baby's born, this baby's born. These little fraction of a moment, it's so important to understand. So this conference is a huge opportunity for people to step into that wisdom. So if anyone listening to this knows people who are about to have a family, about to have a, you know, another child, anyone in your network, please get them to this conference because this is hard information to find. It's very, very countercultural in a lot of ways. So people can go to reclaimingbirthconference.com Simon-Essler if you want to purchase tickets, you can go. That's the, that's my affiliate link. And you can get a discount of 15% if you use the code SIMON15. And the great news is that even after the conference is done, there will be the opportunity for replays and for people to access that as a body of wisdom that that can change lives, man. Yerasimos 01:45:32.470 - 01:45:36.670 Well, my wife and I are. My wife and I are looking forward to being there. So it's going to be a fun weekend. Joel 01:45:36.670 - 01:46:10.450 You know what? I might just rock up as well. Must see. I might see you next week as well, Simon. Man, every single time we get to connect in this way, it's such a pleasure. You're so articulate, so coherence, the way these ideas flow through you and are communicated through you in the unique way that you do just really lands in a powerful way, man. So beyond anything else, I want to honor you for who you are and the work you've done to be here and to be a vessel for this message and these messages because you're broad reaching, man. You ain't no one trick pony. Based on these three conversations that we've had. So you're a legend, bro. Thank you for being here. Yerasimos 01:46:11.010 - 01:46:37.370 Yeah, bro, I echo everything, everything Joel said. I just appreciate everything you bring to the table. Who you are, your essence. I mean, you two are fathers. I'm not a father. Perhaps one day. So just being here in your presence and listening to the conversations and of course, being a part of it, like, it's a. It's a gift. And I feel like this information is going to impact a lot of people, and I'm sure everyone that attends the conference is going to be impacted. And thank you, man, for being you. Simon 01:46:38.330 - 01:47:00.930 I appreciate it. Guys, I was so looking forward to this because I kind of like what you said at the beginning of this. This is the only place where I can really go deep all the way, where I can get into, like, all of it, and I can, like, throw some human design in and, like, really get into all the muck and the metaphysics and all of that that I. I can't go this deep anywhere else. So I'm so, so grateful to have this space with you guys, honestly. Yerasimos 01:47:00.930 - 01:47:18.150 Yeah, well, that's what's cool. Like, we share this language, and it's like we can pull, communicate and use human design language. And, like, it's not like you're doing it on a podcast and two other people that you're interviewing, you're like, what the hell is he talking about? You know? So I really. I really appreciate that element. There's a lot of shared interests and values. Joel 01:47:18.310 - 01:47:19.750 Oh, yeah, yeah. Yerasimos 01:47:19.910 - 01:47:20.190 We. Joel 01:47:20.190 - 01:48:04.230 We. We. We pride ourselves on that, man. On being able to hold space for this level of nuance and complexity. And, you know, honestly, like, we pride ourselves on having the audience that has the capacity to be able to hold space for a conversation like this as well. So appreciate that, man. Guys, we're gonna have the link to Reclaiming the Birth Conference with Simon Esler's discount code and his affiliate link in the brief. Honestly, this is just so powerful for anyone. Anyone that, you know that is pregnant or is planning on having a baby or has a baby or is. Is already a father and deep into it, I've got no doubt that this is going to have wisdom and knowledge which is able to impact all degrees of the spectrum. There's no doubt about that. So jump on it, share it around, and we'll see you next time. Yerasimos 01:48:04.710 - 01:48:10.070 Real quickly. Simon, any other. Any other place you want to direct people to. To, like, support you in previous work that you've done? Simon 01:48:10.390 - 01:48:56.320 I should. Yeah. Yeah. People, if you want to check out my docu series, Superorganism, which I spoke to a lot today, that is actually a documentary about the war on the family. On the family as a superorganism. That is designed for devotion and wisdom. You can see that Simon essler.com along with my feature documentary Cut Daughters of the west, and lots of other great resources and tools and insights. So you can support my work by going and, you know, purchasing my films@simon essler.com and you can find me on Instagram Simon Essler 1111 and I do a lot of work with mom army and dad Army. So please give mom army and dad Army a follow on Instagram. They're doing really, really great things, and we have lots of really interesting projects coming up, so you can check all of those things out as well. Joel 01:48:56.720 - 01:48:58.320 Awesome. Take care, everyone.