Ali Zeck Seeing Through the Illusion

[Speaker 3] (0:00 - 1:11) You are now listening to the Here for the Truth podcast, hosted by Joel Raffidi and Erasmus Stelionesis. All right, everybody, welcome back to Here for the Truth. This is episode 29. As always, the first half of this episode will be available to the public and the second half to our members on Patreon. We're so glad you all could join us for this very special episode with the incredible guest who we're truly honoured to have join us here today. Ali Zeck. Some of you may know her. A quick little bio on Ali. Ali is a health and medical freedom advocate sharing her story and experience with the world in order to educate and liberate people from the dangers of big pharma drugs and help them to tune into their own power. After being placed on psychiatric drugs for over 20 years, being told that she was mentally ill with multiple psychiatric hospital stays and suicide attempts, she found ultimate peace by coming off all the drugs, healing her trauma and adopting a holistic lifestyle. Ali, we're so glad that you can join us. Thank you for being here. [Speaker 1] (1:12 - 1:13) Thank you for having me. [Speaker 2] (1:13 - 1:28) Yeah, thank you so much for just being a voice of truth and like your spirit and your energy and your words. I mean, I've been following you on Instagram for a long time. And every time your post comes up, I'm just so just grateful, you know, grateful for what you share and that you share your journey. [Speaker 3] (1:29 - 2:01) Yeah, I mean, this podcast is called Here for the Truth. And I think anyone that's followed you and is familiar with what you share knows that you are 100% someone who's here for the truth. You're all in. You've got both feet here. There's no doubt about that. So, yeah, just really, really first off, thank you for the way that you're for your transformation for you for your journey and for all the things that have culminated to you being here to be able to speak your truth to power in such a potent way to affect so many people. It's a joy to watch. [Speaker 2] (2:02 - 2:17) Thank you, guys. Real quick, did I notice, did you have a biogeometry thing as well? I do, I do, yeah. What I don't have, though, is the little. Oh, the little whatever this is for harmonizing electromagnetic fields. Cool. [Speaker 1] (2:18 - 2:19) Mine may not be as effective. [Speaker 2] (2:20 - 2:25) No, it's all good. When the camera went down a little bit, I was like, wait, I noticed that. Cool. [Speaker 1] (2:25 - 2:28) I think I swiped one of the last ones in the US a while ago. [Speaker 3] (2:29 - 2:34) Nice. All right, Bri, where do you want to start with this one? [Speaker 2] (2:38 - 2:54) So, Ali, I'm just, I guess, like, with everything that you share, if, you know, because we love getting into people's personal hero's journey, if you want to talk about some of your major rites of passage along your journey that have guided you into who you are today. [Speaker 3] (2:54 - 3:24) Yeah, well, let me preface that with something as well. Because one thing I noticed in the way you share is that, like, you see it the same way I do, that the government that claims to be caring for us is obviously extremely narcissistic, right? Whatever's behind it. And so, obviously, in your journey, you've experienced extreme narcissism. And through your story, is that something that's helped you awaken to see actually the mechanisms of control and how they work in the basis of narcissism? [Speaker 1] (3:25 - 6:39) Yes. So, my concept of narcissism has evolved over the last few years. I was in an abusive marriage and was with my ex-husband for 30 years. And I believe that what we're talking about when we're talking about the government's doing this is actually not narcissism, I would call it psychopathy. Because my ex-husband at his core is an amazing human being. I define narcissism in the general public as very unresolved trauma, where they adopt really unconscious coping mechanisms. And those coping mechanisms usually mean controlling other people out of fear and out of being rejected. So, narcissists, I think narcissists are really getting a bad label. And I used to be one of those people that would really label them. That's very, very different from psychopathy. And that's what I see and I feel and I know is going on with our governments and the world leaders and celebrities and people like that. They are in a conscious state, choosing to inflict harm and damage onto people of the world. And so, right when this all started happening, I had gone through a lot of my trauma healing from that type of abuse. And really, I was gaslit, yes, in the relationship, but I was very gaslit being on pharma drugs. And all the doctors and therapists, numerous of them, practitioners, would always tell me that it wasn't the drugs that were causing me to be suicidal. It was my genetic mental illness. And that's a massive amount of gaslighting because I never had genetic mental illness. I don't personally believe that mental illness exists. I believe, just like other things out in the world today, I believe that there are symptoms of an illness going around. And I believe that there are symptoms of mental illness, but it doesn't define itself as a label of mental illness. So, in January of 2020, I started seeing what was happening in the world and had learned to kind of tap into my intuition and listen to my body. And I started feeling the exact same feelings that I had felt in the relationship and from the practitioners. And I started to kind of match it up. And that's what I started my platform on. It shifted from healing psych drugs into narcissistic abuse as it relates to governments and world control and really oppressing humanity. And it's very, very similar. Yes, it's really just absolute insanity. Once you awaken, Dolan, you start seeing the way the world really, really works and the power of the mind and also the power of very powerful systems to control people's minds. Once you awaken to that, it's really you can't go back to sleep. It's like the world shifts from this colored view to a different color. And as much as you want to go back to that old color, you can't. I started very quickly noticing the parallels and pointing it out to people on my platform. [Speaker 3] (6:40 - 7:09) Yeah, I mean, it's quite a stark reality that awakening. It's actually realized that whatever this is, whatever we're experiencing, we are here with some form of control, which 100% is trying to, I guess, you know, I mean, that doesn't care about us. And it seems like more than ever wants the worst for us. Right. So, yeah, there's no doubt the color of the lens changes once you have that experience for sure. [Speaker 2] (7:10 - 7:18) Yeah, I find too, like you said, once you do take that red pill, the blue pill just doesn't have an impact. You can't go back and take it. [Speaker 1] (7:18 - 7:38) As much as we would like to. I mean, I literally like, do I have any old Xanax sitting around because right now for just a little bit, it would be, you know, but we just can't. We're not made for that. And once you pass through that, that threshold, that, that opening, yeah, you can't, you can't crawl back into the womb. [Speaker 2] (7:41 - 8:05) You were saying like you were starting to use your intuition around January 2020 around what was going on, like with this whole affair. But what's the, what was the timeline with when you were talking about being like gas lit by your, your, you know, psychiatric professionals, etc. Like, I'm curious the timeline and, and what was it that allowed you and helped you to, I guess, heal and begin the next chapter. [Speaker 1] (8:06 - 10:12) Well, and again, that's, that's also the way that I view my old therapists and practitioners has also shifted to as I've evolved and healed more. I used to really put a lot of blame on them. I used to think that they were evil people, just like I would think that my ex was a really evil person. They're not evil. They're, they're not evil people. They're just as much victims of the brainwashing of the medical dogma and the Rockefeller, you know, medicine as, as I was, except for, you know, caused me more harm. But they're just, they're just at a point where in their evolution, where they're very, very trapped inside of this paradigm that big pharma is really, really altruistic and here to help us. And parts of big pharma, I will say are good. You know, I believe in acute medicine. I believe that there possibly, maybe I'm not going to say it's all or nothing. There may be some drugs out there that may be beneficial to people. But as far as the psychiatric industry goes, in my experience, it was a full 20 years of, you know, on and off, but for the most part on them the entire time where I was just in a state of really just trauma, psychosis. It would, you know, it very acute anxiety, panic attacks, akathisia, where I shook all the time. It was, it was just a constant and towards the end when I really started going on more drugs, they were adding more drugs, you know, because I will work with clients that started out with one drug for anxiety. And I kid you not, I've spoken with several that are on 12 or more drugs, just to treat the anxiety. And so that was what, you know, I was coming down to, I think I was on five or six when I finally came off of all of them. And it was an evolution and a kind of just a complete breakdown of my reality as I knew it and understood it when I finally got to the point where I, you know, came off the drugs. But it was a very, very long time that I was on them. [Speaker 3] (10:13 - 10:16) What was the catalyst for you to be like, this is enough? [Speaker 1] (10:17 - 14:07) My last suicide attempt, and I like to describe it only because if you look at me now, it's really hard to perceive or conceive that that could have been me. It's even hard for me. So my last suicide attempt was in a psychiatric hospital. And to me, attempting suicide, you know, they always say it's very stigmatized. I think suicide is, oh, it's it's crying for attention. You're seeking attention. But I was I was in the hospital and I took two days to take sheets that were in the room with me on the bed and I would rip them. And they're really cheap sheets and I would cough and rip them. So the nurses around the corner, you know, wouldn't hear what I was doing. Took me about two days and then I would wad them up and stick them under my bed and, you know, go eat and go to group, come back in. So I with forethought plan to do this. And I remember when I was I took all of those sheets, strips and tie them into a long rope. And I remember when I was walking to the window ledge to hang myself, I looked in the shower area and one of my dogs, I saw one of my dogs in there with like a hat on. So that's the state that I was in. I was literally in full psychosis, full blown hallucination. And, you know, through there was like a bolt that hung these curtain balances, real thick bolt. And I put the rope over that and, you know, walked off the left, tied it around my neck and walked off the ledge and the bolt of the rope held. But the bolt did not hold it pulled out of the out of the wall. So that was kind of the catalyst, not for me, but for my story. I was still completely checked out. But my family at the time after that started looking for long term care facilities for me to stay in because I was a danger to myself completely. I was never a danger to anybody else, but I was definitely a danger to myself. And I was done. There was it's it's a very funneling experience when your mind is like that, where, you know, my doctor, my doctor that we'll talk about told me it kind of makes sense, doesn't it? And I said, it's the only thing that made sense, because it's not just the the emotional aspect of those drugs. It's actually a physical aspect that you're going through, too. Like I said, I had severe akathisia. Lights really hurt my eyes. Depth perception issues. I was terrified, you know, horrible, horrific agoraphobia, hallucinating all because of these drugs. And so the catalyst was I was seeing a brand new therapist when I got out of the hospital. And this really shows the divine, the divinity involved in all of our lives. If we are so lucky and we choose to move into that is that I was seeing this new therapist. And she just happened to mention that there was a brand new book out by this holistic psychiatrist named Kelly Brogan. And she had just read it and it had just come out in the last two weeks. And she really thought that I should travel from Kansas City to New York City to see Kelly Brogan. And for some reason, I don't know why I did it. And I called Kelly Brogan's office. I got in within like a month and was able to see her. So that was the real turning point for me. And I can honestly say Kelly doesn't like me putting this much, I guess, pressure, like emphasis on her. But had I not met her, I would be dead. I would not be around because she was really the one that ushered in my awakening and helped me come off the drugs. [Speaker 2] (14:09 - 14:36) Yeah, and I think on those heroic journeys that we take, we find those guides. Obviously, we still have to answer the call. We still have to show up. And you went from Kansas City to New York City. You did that. And yet these people, they play a big role, these mentors, these guides, these teachers. So yeah, Kelly's amazing. I had the pleasure of meeting her this past, I think it was December. She's lovely. [Speaker 1] (14:37 - 14:39) Beautiful human being. [Speaker 2] (14:39 - 14:39) Yeah. [Speaker 3] (14:40 - 14:50) Looking back now, what was it that I guess Kelly was able to point you to within yourself for you to make that connection and begin your new life, I guess? [Speaker 1] (14:50 - 16:44) So I want to point out that when I make my posts, I'm paralleling, right? Because it's all in the mind. It's a deaf soul. It's a soul thing going on here. It's really like a soul rape, honestly. But it starts in the mind. And so when I'm writing the posts, I'm actually writing to an older version of myself. Because when I'm talking to people, when I'm out talking to people that are still believing this narrative, I'm talking to an older version of myself that at the time believed for 25 years that I was ill and needed a drug to fix me. So what Kelly did for me, more than anything, was she flipped my reality. I walked into her office, spent like three hours with her, which I noticed was longer than I had ever spent with any doctor or therapist ever. And she really got into the nuts and bolts of my life. And she just said to me, you're not mentally ill. And, you know, wow, what an incredible human being to place that much hope into someone that three weeks earlier, a month earlier, had just tried to hang herself in the hospital. I had the stigma of mental illness, the stigma of suicide. I had the diagnoses of all these mental illnesses. And yet this doctor, this professional, this world-renowned psychiatrist is saying to me, no, you're not mentally ill. So it was a really, it was a huge red pill. It was a huge shift. And I don't even know that at the time I even really got it. I just was so messed up from being on the drugs anyway. But I do know that she planted a seed for me that helped me start to kind of move out into this new paradigm and this new way of being and into that birth canal really of awakening. [Speaker 2] (16:44 - 17:01) And what was that like once you started entering that birth canal? What was that like? Because, you know, you have to go through the process, I'm assuming, of weaning off some of these drugs. And there's obviously the whole experience that goes with that. So what was that like? [Speaker 1] (17:02 - 19:34) So I made the mistake of coming twice off the drugs abruptly. When I got to Kelly, I had already stopped taking the drugs. And I always caution people that you don't ever want to come abruptly off of any psychiatric drug. And I did not know better. But I just want to make that one stipulation to people that are watching this that may be taking these drugs. It's really, really dangerous. And it can actually make your withdrawal symptoms much worse. So I had, you know, I would say that it caused a very protracted withdrawal for me coming off of them that quickly. When I was in her office, my son Alec had graduated from West Point, which is up in New York, that weekend. So we were at his graduation the Friday before the Monday I saw Kelly. And I think I spent the majority of his graduation in the car, screaming, kicking, you know, just, I mean, I was just literally psychotic and in a really, really bad state. So to walk into her office, I was in bad shape. And yet she still was able to say to me, you're not mentally ill. So it was it was a period of months. And I wish it were that easy. Right. I wish that it was like, oh, you're not mentally ill. You're off the drugs. Everything's better. It was a huge breaking down of not only physically, you know, getting off the drugs and having to change my lifestyle physically and how I ate and learning how to do self care. But it was also a breakdown of my reality. That is what moved me into, you know, discovering that I had a lot of trauma. And a lot of the trauma was caused by the relationship, you know, the marriage that I was in. It was a really, really toxic relationship and I was toxic in it as well. So it was just a like I said, a complete bottoming out, a complete just just recalibration of everything that I knew about myself, about my childhood, about my marriage, about who I have been as a mother, about the drugs, about pharma. You know, it was it was just a complete flipping of my reality. And it took, you know, many, many months. I'd say it took probably two years. And I know everyone discouraged people, but it was a solid two years of very, very intense pain. And again, not just only emotionally, but physically to come off of those drugs and to start to really write my reality and figure out what the truth really was. [Speaker 3] (19:37 - 19:43) So just for timeline purposes, when, what year was the Kelly meeting? [Speaker 1] (19:44 - 19:48) May of 2016. So five years ago. [Speaker 3] (19:48 - 19:50) Okay. And when did the relationship end? [Speaker 1] (19:51 - 20:30) It ended in a year later and about June of 2017. So I was, you know, we were together, but it was, I think I knew subconsciously on a very subconscious level that it was it was toxic and it ended very, very painfully for both of us. Very toxic to our children, definitely would not be the model for how to break up a family and a marriage at all. I can laugh about it now, but it was it was extremely painful to our entire family. It was it was really, really hard. Plus, I was still going through the withdrawal process. And it was just a combination of so much stuff. [Speaker 3] (20:30 - 20:50) Yeah, no, I've got no doubt. Yeah, but it's, it's just so like, it's kind of relative that like you kind of coming off the drugs also led to it manifesting physical in you ending the toxic relationships as well as like an inner detox and an external detox. I guess you could say that, that that takes place. [Speaker 1] (20:51 - 22:18) I don't know. I don't want to quote her exactly. But I do know that I've heard Kelly say a few times that people that follow her protocol and really start to do this work, because it's not just about the drugs, right? It's much, much more than that. The drugs are just a symptom of something. Well, that really, really follow her work. There's a very, very high separation and divorce rate for the typically it's women for the women that follow her program because there is a revealing, you know, an unveiling of a different way to live that that people start to step into. So yes, even though my husband was actually the one that left. And you know, looking back, I do have a lot of compassion for him. Because, you know, me on those drugs was just it was very, very, it was absolute insanity. But at the same time, I had had trauma from the relationship, there was a lot of infidelity, there was emotional and physical abuse as well. So it was, again, just a, you know, really toxic situation that also, as I came to find out very much mirror, you know, my childhood. So it was, you know, again, breaking down these these realities that I thought my childhood was pretty idyllic. And, you know, pretty good. And I did more work, I started to notice the parallels of why was I even attracted into this relationship? Well, there were childhood wounds that had manifested themselves in this relationship. [Speaker 3] (22:18 - 22:54) Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think that's something that we all become versed with. And that's the you mean, ultimately, every, every, every decision that we make, and everything we're drawing in, it's, it's our shadow, that's calling that in, right, it's the unconscious calling it in, so be able to expose itself, so it can come to the surface and be healed. And how we how we go about that is, I guess, it's up to each individual. So would you say that, generally speaking, the drugs, the psychiatric drugs would be a means to avoid facing the childhood wounding or the childhood trauma on some level? [Speaker 1] (22:54 - 23:46) No, I couldn't go that far. But I would say that they were definitely a way for me to avoid. I'm not being in that relationship. Yeah, I was, you know, I call it a, I love my ex husband, I think he's a very, very kind person, deep down inside, I will always have a, a compassionate, you know, a compassion for him very much so. But I think it was a really toxic addiction is what it was. And it only manifested itself, though, because of those childhood wounds. So really, it was, yeah, I didn't ever make it that far, Joel, but I would say it was more just for me to avoid, you know, having boundaries and being treated right. And, you know, being able to speak my voice inside of a relationship and being treated with respect. And it was a way for me to avoid all of that. [Speaker 3] (23:47 - 24:03) Yeah, definitely. I mean, having no boundaries is usually, I mean, the reason why these things evolve. And I mean, I know. Yeah, I don't know, actually, where I was going with that. I was kind of escaping to be honest with you. [Speaker 2] (24:03 - 24:40) Yeah, um, Ali, I wanted to ask you too, because obviously, you know, your son is a leader in the medical freedom, health freedom movement. And I'm curious, like, what was it like for your family during this whole process and communication and what they were dealing with? And I don't want you to speak for them. But like, what, how did that impact you? Because it's like that saying goes, our greatest wounds become our greatest gifts. And so based on what you've been through, and obviously, like your children have been through witnessing you through this process, you know, they have garnered strength from it, and they are speaking out and being leaders in their communities as well. So I'm just I'd love for you to just talk about that a little bit. [Speaker 1] (24:41 - 29:20) You know, my, um, I used to do it with a really heavy heart say this, but my children did not have a mom while they were growing up, I was, you know, really good, my older kids, I'm Alec and Emma, I was really good until they were about six. And that's when the infidelity and the abuse really, really started in the marriage. And then I turned immediately to drugs, again, and really started going on them heavy. And then also denying or, you know, not denying I, you know, is in front of therapists that knew that had worked within the family, they knew there was infidelity, they knew that there was physical and emotional abuse. But yet no one ever said to me, you have trauma, you know, these symptoms that you're showing up with here are, are trauma symptoms. And so it was somehow converted into you have mental illness. And, you know, for God love me, I mean, I was showing up asking for help. And I just got to the wrong people that didn't have an understanding or a concept of what trauma does to the human mind, and the human condition. So my kids were really, you know, I mean, what a what a turbulent life for them, you know, to see, there was the infidelity, they knew their dad, you know, went to rehab, I fell apart, I very much parentified Alec, I would cry on his shoulder. And, you know, on top of that, the drugs and just a constant up and down for me in and out of hospitals, you know, Emma would pack my bags for me to go to the psych hospital, you know, at a very, very young age, they would come visit me there. So I can only imagine but but all the time, you know, we were a very wealthy, you know, well known family, trying to exude this, this level of just normalcy, which there was not both sides, you know, both parents, and it was, you know, it was a life of chaos for them. And the very end, I'd say, you know, from 2016 to now, actually to about a year ago was complete hell on earth. It was an unveiling and unraveling for all of us. And we would all they somehow all my kids would end up at my house, even though they're older, they were living with me at the time, and we would all be here together. And there were, you know, times where we would not be speaking to each other in involved in the work, though, you know, involved and engaged in our healing. In like, January of 2000. And I want to say, 18. So my ex husband, we separated in June of 17. In January of 18, I found a trauma therapist. And I remember being on the phone with him. And he was like, Has anyone ever told you that you have trauma? And I was just like, No. And I remember working with him. And I would, you know, I ran down and told my kids, I was like, you guys, I think we have trauma. And I know that might sound really elementary to us now. But at the time, we had no conception of that. I had no idea what trauma did or that I even had trauma. And that was the first therapist and God bless him for pointing out, you know, you have trauma, you have gone through a lot. I mean, you've gone through the meat grinder. And what you're showing now, these symptoms are really just symptoms of trauma, combined with the gaslighting by, you know, the mental health community that I have mental illness, you know, and then compounding it with shame and guilt. And why would you try to kill yourself? It's so selfish, but a selfish person, mothers don't do that. And so, you know, that created more trauma on top of the underlying trauma that I already had. So it was, it was a very, very difficult work for my kids and I, and we all did it, though. And I'm so, you know, empowered by our story, I really am. Because these, you know, a toxic marriage just on its own, right, or toxic childhoods just on its own can split families up. Or I've seen people that have been on psych drugs and have lost everything, their families have walked away from them, and they've never been able to, you know, level out and really, you know, become better after those drugs. So I feel so fortunate that we were able to work through and maneuver through all of it, the drugs, the family breaking up, the marriage breaking up, my kids not having a childhood and all the trauma that that created in them. And we've been able to, you know, somehow take all that in process it, you know, transmute it. And then what we have found is that serving others, and speaking out to help empower others who may be, you know, in similar situations is what you know, we're here for. [Speaker 2] (29:21 - 30:28) Yeah, and incorrectly, if I'm wrong, based on what you said, is that, in essence, you are working on your trauma and the wounding together as a family, in a sense. And I think, I think that's something that people don't realize how important that is, because people experience life, and then they feel like they're alone to deal with it. And so I think you can heal much quicker and build more resilience when it's done in some sort of communal setting. Because I remember reading about like different places in Africa, they've been through such horrific things, but because they're able to talk about things, because they're able to process things in a certain way, that it doesn't have the same impact on them, as opposed to someone who experiences something, doesn't tell anyone anything, can't share it in a story, and is locked away in their apartment, etc. So it's just seems, it's, it's pretty beautiful that you're able to have each other. And I'm sure it wasn't always rainbows and butterflies, you know, and that it was it was the challenge. But I just, that's what I get from hearing you say that is like, there's a power in healing, when you're able to go through something and talk about things as a family. [Speaker 1] (30:29 - 32:58) I totally agree. And it was I want to it was it was hell. I mean, it was absolute, there were like I said, there were there was a time my kids didn't speak to me, they believe the narrative coming from my ex that I was psycho, and they're trying to manipulate him. And so it was it was extremely painful. And then, you know, to get my kids in myself to understand the family generational patterns that had come down from both parents, right, you know, my, from me, and then from from their father as well, and how this was a real breaking point in our evolution and our lineage, that we had to see these patterns. And I, you know, those are things I've been trying to point out, I will say intuitively, my entire marriage, like, hey, you know, we can't treat each other like that, we have to be direct and honest, I don't like passive aggressive behavior. And it was, it's just a very, you know, wonderful family, they really are, but they're just very set. And this is their coping mechanism, you know, this is how they cope with their own trauma by, you know, kind of deflection and blame and abuse. That's just how they do it. But I wanted, you know, more for me. And I think as I, you know, walked out of it, my kids started to see me, I'm doing better and becoming, you know, walking in alignment and being an integrity and going through the pain, and up leveling. And I think they, you know, began to see, wow, this is because you have to understand when you've been on those drugs and off and in and out of hospitals, they're like, this lady's full of crap, you know, and even when they didn't fault me, they were like, this lady is never going to get better. But I think over time, they really watched me do the work and begin to really emerge. And my, you know, my real personality, my real essence of who I am without the trauma, you know, without the drug started to appear. And I think it gave them a real solid hope that I actually, you know, could get better. And I also think that as the mom, I had so much, you know, regret that, that I had not been there, been able to been there, be there for them when they were younger, that I felt a real responsibility, and an obligation to make sure that they had, you know, the tools and the people to work with that could help them, you know, navigate their way out as well. It was that that was a very, very big deal to me that I found people, whether it was somebody I was working with, or somebody else for them to work with to help them process everything. [Speaker 2] (32:59 - 33:52) Yeah. Can you can, I was gonna say quickly, because I work in the field as a bodyworker, as a trauma informed practitioner, like, you know, there's so many differences, you know, like between conventional modalities. So I'm curious, like, what separates someone like a Dr. Kelly Brogan from a more conventional psychiatrist, you know, what, what separates the trauma informed practitioners that you work with? Like, I'm curious, like, what were some of the modalities? And, you know, you don't have to name names. Like, what was it that worked for you? You know, because like people that are watching this, and I know I have friends of mine who are struggling to get off of medication, they've been on them for 15, 20 years, and they're, they're in that process of weaning off, and they, they're, they're, they're scared, they don't, they don't know how or they don't know where to receive support. So, because I'm such a lover of healing in all forms, like, I would love to know, you know, what were some of the things that really, really worked for you and your family? [Speaker 1] (33:54 - 37:43) I think probably the biggest, if I could give anyone a huge piece of advice, extremely relevant, the most relevant piece of advice for healing yourself, I would tell them to not, do not negate the power of a toxic relationship on your mental health. I had no clue, the power, and I want to say again, I was, I was also toxic in that relationship as well, you know, it takes two people to heal, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's I think there's a lot of people inside of that. But, but I had done, I had worked for like two years and really, really healing myself, and our neural pathways become kind of, I call it read it out right? In this conditioning, in this way of engaging with certain people in our life, based on our history, based on our experiences, you know, those, those neural pathways, again, just kind of get read it out as the default, you know, neuropathic, that's how we see, or that's how we engage inside this relationship. So a very profound story for me that I noticed right away, I had stopped talking to my ex husband for like, two years, we had, I had stopped all contact. And they say, you're dating or, you know, with a narcissist, you need to block and delete them. And I consider him just as evil narcissist. So I stopped talking to him completely. One day, my, my youngest son was going into a psych hospital because my kids read so much trauma. And I picked up the phone and I called him. And I remember, I thought at the time why I've done so much work, I'll be able to talk to him. And I'll be able to be this, you know, healed person and very, very calm and really enlightened. And it was so interesting, because I got on the phone with him. And within 30 seconds of me being on the phone after not having spoken to him for two years, we were engaged in this pattern. And it's like this default mechanism just kicked in immediately without me even becoming or being aware of it. And here we were back in this pattern that we've been in for the past 30 years, immediately without me even noticing it was happening until after the fact. And so my point on that is, is that the toxicity of relationships, and yes, you do carry those patterns over from your childhood. That is what is I think, causing people so much grief and trauma, and is leading people into the world of psychiatric medicine, because they are not seeing or they're not able to break down the patterns that are causing the flawed thinking, the flawed logic, the shame, the guilt. And those are all things that are passed down to us generationally. And that's what people have to start stepping into and identifying, you know, and you would know this, a great way to start is, how do I feel around this person? You know, what is my body telling me I had, I had a body worker tell me once, I said, I don't think that I can be around, you know, this person. And she said, and I said, but I feel really guilty, you know, I should be able to, and she was like, your body is sending you data, you know, your body is sending you data, you have to start learning to listen to the data that your body is sending you. And so I took a step back, and I was like, I feel it, I cannot be around this person, I feel very constricted, I feel like I'm going to hyperventilate, you know, possibly I can, I've been able to work to where I could do that at some point, that is my goal. And I'm at that goal now. But at the time, I was like, you know, I can't, she was like, forgive yourself, listen to your body. And so that's what I would start telling people is start listening to your body, start listening to because it knows on a very, very deep level what's going on. And what they're doing with these psych drugs is they're shutting down our intuition, they're disconnecting our brains and our souls from from God and from from our, you know, that deep intuition that tells us, you know, something is not right. [Speaker 2] (37:45 - 38:18) Absolutely. I couldn't agree more with that statement. I think, I think the more we move towards this integration, but really understanding the role the body plays, because it's like, so much is just like from the neck up. Yeah, you know, and it's just like, but when we can tune into that deep intuition, to that, that gut response to whatever that is for that person where they're able to tune in, I mean, that's where some powerful changes can come from. And that's our nature. You know, that's, that's coming deep from within from our subconscious, from our unconscious. And the more we're cut off from that, it's, it's, it's, it's tough to be grounded in reality. [Speaker 1] (38:19 - 38:21) It is, it very much is. [Speaker 3] (38:22 - 39:37) I mean, and people don't realise that, but many of the sages and philosophers of the past have compelled and implored people to look at the wisdom of the body. I mean, Nietzsche himself said, no, no philosophy is as deep as the wisdom of the body, you know, but this malignant culture that we live in just forces us, as Yerasimo says, to just live, to live head up and not really pay attention. I mean, this goes back to even born sinner paradigms, religion, negate the body, look for everything else external to you. So this, this conditioning is actually so, so deep and so embedded in us. One thing quickly on, you mentioned that often we're not willing to, we don't realise that's our childhood trauma that's actually playing out to be resolved. And there's this general stigma amongst most people that we have this fear of looking negatively upon our childhood or even vilifying our parents in any kind of way. Do you think, well, I feel that way, but you feel like that dogma is a block to us actually opening up that unconscious, which is a childhood wounding and our childhood trauma, because we're just so programmed to be like, I can never think badly about my parents, about my upbringing, about nothing. [Speaker 1] (39:39 - 41:37) Yeah, I hear you. And it's so funny, because I haven't even thought of that in like three years. That's so interesting. Kind of a blast from the past for me. But I do remember, but for me, I'm somebody that's I think my whole life question, I think I was probably a thorn in my parents side growing up. Why did we do it this way? Why is it like this? You know, asking teachers, you know, you shouldn't have said that you did this, you know, I'm very much in integration, I'm super, I have to have the truth in front of me. And that's why I think I got so messed up for so many years, because I think, you know, deep down, I knew something wasn't right. I knew it wasn't right. But here I have professionals, and then the drugs themselves turn my brain inside out. I do. I think that that very much cripples people, though. Because I have learned to communicate, you know, with my parents, without I've moved from, it's definitely have been many iterations of myself, you know, as I've been healing. At first, it was like, fuck you guys, you know, this is what you did to me, you know, when I was growing up. And then I got my kids saying the same thing to me, right. So I'm pulling that in as well. And I'm, but I'm admitting it, you're right. I did. That's, you know, it's terrible, the childhood you guys had, but then it's really shifted into, it may sound very triggering to people, because at the time, it sounded really triggering to me. But it's moved into it just is it just, you know, was what it was. And a sense of compassion and grace that based on where we all were my parents, you know, my ex, my kids, his parents, all of us, based on where we were, what we knew, and who we thought we were, it could not have happened any other way. Yeah, it would even be go on to say that it was a blessing that it did happen. Because here we have a breakdown of these faulty patterns and these illusions that we had all been living in. [Speaker 3] (41:38 - 43:19) Definitely, there's no coincidences, there's any synchronicities. And I mean, as Jung said, no tree can reach heaven that doesn't have its roots in hell, you know, it's almost like the events or the experiences that you had, obviously, equivalence, what was necessary to actually bring forth, you know, I mean, that, that that heaven and to awaken that and to start mobilizing. It's incredible. I think it's a great place to wrap up the first half of this episode. Everyone that's tuned in so far, thank you so much for listening. We really appreciate you guys. We're going to be continuing this incredible dialogue with an amazing woman Ali Zek on the other side. Thanks for listening and to our members. We'll see you in a little bit. Alright, to our members, welcome back to the second half of this episode with Ali Zek. We've been having an incredible deep dialogue so far on her journey and what it really means to heal and just the effects of pharmaceutical psychiatric drugs and the harm that is inhibited through what through what is being peddled under the guise of healthcare is it's absolutely shocking. One thing on my mind is, like, looking at it now, like, is what is the what is the MO behind the menu behind the manufacturers? Like, is it we can always just say it's just profit. It's just to build reliance. But I mean, these drugs obviously created in some kind of way to put someone in a certain state, you know, like, well, how do you perceive, perceive that, like, someone is making these chemicals for someone to be in this and to have this terrible experience, you know? [Speaker 1] (43:20 - 45:02) I think for me, I go back, you could keep it as a very, very narrow approach. Like, yeah, it's for greed and profit. But when you really start to unwrap the whole box, it gets much, much bigger. And I always, you know, go back to the early 1900s, when Rockefeller had, you know, Standard Oil Company, and he, you know, invented petrochemicals. And that's where you know, big pharma really started from. And it was, I think, with with forethought and malice, that they started, you know, most of the medical, you know, institutions and universities, and put doctors in these white coats. And they really did create a religion, even though most people in it would never, oh, it's not a religion. No, it's actually a religion, because you are placing your life source in that, you know, in that care of that external system, thinking it's going to save you. And so that's, that's what I look at. But it also goes down to, from a from a metaphysical, a spiritual standpoint, these drugs significantly alter our consciousness, I have there, and I would liken, you know, me being on those drugs, to really being, you know, under some type of demonic possession, it was that intense. It was like an alter reality, where even like the way, like I said earlier, I perceive depth, I perceive light, the way I viewed the world was completely altered. And a really, really, what it's doing is it's creating, in layman's terms, is creating synthetic neural pathways that shouldn't be there, that wouldn't be there, where you're not taking a chemically, you know, altering neurotoxic drug. [Speaker 3] (45:05 - 45:18) It's, it's kind of like a ritualistic in a sense, you know, they're trying to put someone through some kind of intentional, you know, trauma, altered reality ritual of whatever their sick, you know, sick creation is. [Speaker 2] (45:19 - 45:52) Yeah, and what you said before, too, it's like, a lot of this is about disconnecting us from our soul. Well, it's like, if people are connected to the divine within, if they're connected to God, they're going to see through the illusions that are fed to us on a daily basis, in every element of society. But if you're not, then if you if you aren't connected to that part of you to the deeper wisdom within you, then you just you almost need that malignancy to survive, you need to, to stay with it to stay connected to just to be connected to something, because you've lost connection to the depths within you. [Speaker 1] (45:52 - 47:43) It's I call them tentacles of the matrix, you know, I mean, the matrix sounds very cliche, but that really what what is what it is, and I consider the matrix to be this vehicle that darkness uses, through the process of conditioning, programming, and, you know, conditioning us to have certain beliefs about ourselves and the way the world, you know, works. And one of the biggest red pills for me to swallow, it's, it's so large, it's taken me a couple years to really grasp it all is is the, you know, the concept of alcohol, alcohol is a poison. And if you step back, and you observe our society, it's celebrated, it's pushed on us, it's a rite of passage that we celebrate for, you know, a child turning 21 to, you know, get on a party bus with their parents, and just get wasted, or, you know, put a hose down your mouth and pour poison. And it's just like, in a way kind of fascinating for me, because I've never liked alcohol. I just don't feel good on at all. But it's just fascinating, because it's such a, a conditioned response inside of our society to, again, not only accept it, but to celebrate it and push it on people. And it's absolute poison. It's literally tied to your system. But yet, plant medicine, right, is illegal. And that's where, you know, plant medicine could open up our, you know, our eyes and our minds to a deeper connection with ourselves and with our Creator. But that's illegal. So it's all very, very planned out, in my opinion, that they, you know, they push me during the during, you know, last year, they left liquor stores open, but they closed churches. It's just, you know, it's, it's like, comical to me at this point, how paradoxical it all is. [Speaker 3] (47:43 - 47:48) Yeah, in Melbourne, Australia, they left open pubs and brothels, everything else. [Speaker 2] (47:50 - 49:06) Yeah. And you see how deep this goes? Because if you get if you get into Hollywood, and you get into the media, and you get into the mind control programming, and, and if you if you think that, you know, a culture society is gonna end up being and behaving like what's plastered across these streams, these screens, you see what's celebrated on the media, like everything is all about having a drink and having a good time and partying and, and not living your best self and not living your best life. And it's like, if these things are what's being represented on the screen, and people are being tuned in, and that kind of like tranced out state mind control state, like, of course, our society is going to be what it is. It's like, it's like what you said earlier, it just is. And so if this is what people are relying on, if this is what has power over people's consciousness, then the world we see around us, it's no surprise to me. But the question is, how do you unplug what's necessary, what kind of work needs to be done. And that's where personal responsibility, self responsibility comes in, and you have to take the reins your own life, and you get support along the way and do what you have to do to heal your trauma, to see the way you're being manipulated. Because if you can't, if you can't see it, then you're going to fall victim to it, to some degree. [Speaker 1] (49:06 - 50:55) Absolutely. No, I completely agree. Hollywood has been a big red pill, again, for me to swallow, too, because it's like, you know, kind of walk into these more and more. And I'm like, it's just one big it's it's not about entertainment. It is absolutely not. I consider it an arm of the military in many ways, because it's so programmed to culturally, you know, condition us, and put predictive, you know, programming shows up there to, you know, kind of ooze into our consciousness, so that when that does come out later, we're not so shocked by it, we're actually kind of attracted to it. And we feel familiar, because we're, I always say this, we're not attracted to what's healthy, we're attracted to what feels familiar to us. You know, coming out of our childhood, we're not attracted to healthy, if we've grown up in a dysfunctional household, we will be attracted to someone that feels something that feels familiar, even if it's unhealthy or unsafe, versus being attracted to what's healthy, because that's what we know. That's, is us comfort in a really, really weird way. So Hollywood is just, I'm done, I had to kind of kill off mentally everybody in my mind that I had ever thought. And you know, I was thinking the other day, even like when you look at Keanu Reeves, everybody's like, oh, he's such a good guy, you know, but if you look at the Matrix and the movie, and the guys behind the Wachowski brothers, whoever that made it, they're part of the system. And I realized a couple of months ago, I'm like, yeah, but in reality, he's playing the role of the good guy in real life. You know, he's playing the role of the nice guy, the good guy, the awakened guy, in real life, they're all playing a role anybody at any significant level in Hollywood has either become a victim of mind control, or they have legitimately signed a contract to be part of that network. [Speaker 2] (50:56 - 51:55) Yeah, and it goes really, it goes really deep. I mean, even just like recently, I decided to watch a show again that I hadn't seen in like 11 years. It was one of my favorite shows when I was younger, and I decided to watch with my wife, because she hadn't watched it. And, you know, I was hip to some of this stuff 10-11 years ago, but not to the degree that I am. And to watch the episode where they're like, okay, well, you know, we need to take you to the doctor, you know, like, this is what we need you to do. And, and then the doctor goes, well, you're gonna, you're gonna have to take these pills for the rest of your life. You know, and like, I'm gonna have these issues for the rest of my life. So these like subtle little things that go in there, even in like these shows that I think, you know, have an impact emotionally, you see how people are living, like there could be some benefits, but they subtly put these things in there, or not so subtly. Yeah. And that for 20, 30, 40, 50 years, you know, have an impact on the consciousness of humanity. And so that's why they don't think twice, like, oh, okay, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna do this, like, because this is what I know. It's just, you know, again, it makes sense. [Speaker 3] (51:56 - 51:57) Let me ask you this. Sorry. [Speaker 1] (51:58 - 52:05) This is seemingly innocuous things done over and over and over again, add up to something very, very significant. [Speaker 3] (52:06 - 52:27) Repetition. The repetition is part of mind control. Yes, that's the primary basis of mind control is repetition. But let me ask you this on Hollywood and celebrity culture, because it's quite topical at the moment. Nicki Minaj, now with with the vaccine hesitancy. What do you think that's a that's a that's a ploy part of it? Or is there something real for you? How do you feel about that? [Speaker 1] (52:28 - 52:32) I've been, you know, through so many rabbit holes that at this point, I don't trust. [Speaker 2] (52:32 - 52:33) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (52:34 - 54:24) I'm always looking for the contrary. And again, I, to me, he's playing a role. I mean, I, it's just, she's playing the role. And so unfortunately, you know, her and Chris Rock, who just, you know, tweeted that he had COVID and vaccinated, you know, and I tweeted back at him, just let us know how much you were paid to tweet that. And there, unfortunately, people of color are one of the lowest, you know, have the lowest vaccination rates, which is awesome. But those two, you know, very, very instrumental black people in their community are not going to be telling them to go get the vaccine. Because you know, she's good. She got invited to the White House. And now she's going to go, in my opinion, she's going to do it all the science, you know, from Fauci, and then she's going to come back and eat crow. Oh, you know, he made me see the light, everybody needs to get vaccinated. It's all bullshit. I mean, it's just, you guys know it. I mean, again, like I said at the beginning, once you put those new glasses on, or they're put on to you, you can't take them off and put the other ones on, you see it through a whole new lens. And it is literally, and I don't mean this to speak all of these people, but they're just clowns. I mean, they really, really are just clownish people kind of posing. I call them like karaoke characters, you know, people that like walk into bars, and they can sing karaoke, they might have like an entourage behind them. And they just look ridiculous. But they get up on stage, and they think they're so cool. And I'm like, this is what Hollywood is to me, like, is to like, like to me now. I'm like, you guys look absolutely ridiculous up there. And people are just gobbling it up. So desperate to connect with something outside of themselves, because they have been taught, we've been conditioned to not look inside. [Speaker 3] (54:25 - 55:36) Yeah, yeah. And I think that's, that is the basis of how they're able to pull so much of this off, is that they've fabricated a overlay of a culture, which makes it easy for us to externalize, because we're so willing to avoid pain, because everything, everything that's fed to us is avoid pain this way, bypass this way, escape this way. And then all these little gateways are given to us to get away from it. Whereas in the past, we had these organic rites of passages where we were meant to feel pain, we're meant to feel suffering, we're meant to use that as the kindling to, to evolve and grow. Whereas now, it's like, no, he's, he's an antidepressant. You know what I mean? Depressed. That's a psychological problem. It's like, we don't feel freaking anything. And it's just, how can I keep getting away? And I mean, you look at like Brave New World and stuff like this. And you can kind of see where the timeline is going. You know what I mean? In a sense, but to me now, it's like, I don't know how much of that is like kind of predictive programming for us to create their Brave New World in a way. That was just something on my mind. [Speaker 1] (55:37 - 55:46) Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's fascinating to watch. And it's, so I keep saying, it's like, it's like watching a train wreck in slow motion. [Speaker 3] (55:46 - 55:47) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (55:47 - 58:33) Because you're as an, you know, as an observer, right, we're observing all this, we're, for the most part, not getting pulled into that narrative anymore. And we're trying to point it out, no one's listening, we're becoming the abuser for trying to point out the abuse. And so all you can really do is step back and, you know, continue to do the work on ourselves. And I think it really calls for people to like us that are, you know, awake to understand that we lead people out by leading ourselves out. Yeah. You know, continue to do the work, we continue to set an example. I know that I've been around people that have witnessed me the shift in my consciousness, and in my way of being, where they were like, kind of intrigued, actually, like, wow, like, she's not full of shit this time. Yeah, I'm saying does seem different about her. And, you know, even over the last year and a half, I'm sure you guys have evolved, I've evolved from, you know, calling people sheets, telling people they're full of shit, telling people to, you know, wake the fuck up, what's wrong with you, to, you know, having compassion for those people. And really just bringing it back instead of projecting or blaming them bringing it back into myself. And you know, collaborating with people like you guys, in order to get that, you know, the messaging out there of what life can be like, once you start to unclip from from the matrix and the, you know, the oppressive state it has you in, do you think most people are in a trauma bond with the government? I think most people are, it's a really good question. I think most people are in a trauma state of survival. And I think that the way our society is set up, even from the very beginning where we have birth right in a in a white sterile hospital, you know, ripped with medications, you know, already coming through us, you know, circumcision, umbilical cords cut like that, I think that we grow up with significant trauma. And then we also have our family's generational trauma being passed on to us. And so I think it just like, you know, my childhood have made me right for that relationship, that toxic relationship, the way that we our lives are structured, unless you were one of the very, very few that had parents that kind of got it that we're living in, like in a commune, you know, I mean, off grid for the last 30 years, and they taught you about all this, which is not very many people. You have trauma. And so that yes, you are bonded, because again, that that nuance and that abusive relationship that you are accustomed to out in the world, it feels very familiar. It feels, you know, not healthy, but it feels familiar to you. So that's what you that's what you bond to. Yeah. [Speaker 3] (58:34 - 58:40) Yeah, someone, someone, someone cares for me, someone's looking out for me. I'm supported, like, it would never do that. [Speaker 1] (58:40 - 59:01) Yeah, I mean, they would, the government, the government would never, you know, pharmacy, local companies, they would never do that. It's really hard. But again, I was in the same spot. And I, you know, that's what I write my post, I'm going to try to talk that old version of myself to say, Hey, this is what's really going on. Can you expand your mind to possibly see it a different way? [Speaker 2] (59:03 - 1:00:41) Yeah, I think it's something that we we talk about so often on this show with our guests, and even Joel and myself is like how important it is to just to take personal responsibility to to to understand, like, what we have control over, like what you said before, like, we could sit there and bang on everyone and tell them to wake wake the fuck up. But at the end of the day, it's like, let me control what I can control. What can I do? How can I become a better husband? How can I be a better son? How can I be healthier? How am I nourishing my mind, my body and my spirit? You know, am I online all the time in taking things in because, you know, I grapple with that. It's like, I have that investigative part of me that like, really wants to know and have the information, but I'm being impacted on a subconscious level. You know, these these big tech algorithms are impacting us, even even if we're awake to the degree we are. These powers that be they understand the human mind better than we know ourselves. And so they can just hack you the subconscious subconscious programming goes so deep. So it's like, can we disconnect? Truly? Can we go look at a tree for 35 minutes, you know, and then as we're looking at the tree, pay attention to how we're breathing, you know, pay attention to what thoughts are coming in, to really bring that attention back to the Soma back to the body, you know, because it's like, our minds can go pretty, pretty wild. And, and, yeah, I just think it's important. I think it's important to disconnect as much as we can from the matrix. Even for those of us who think like, Oh, we're so awake. I know. Oh, no, it's like, yeah, well, we're still being they're still trying to play us on some level. [Speaker 1] (1:00:42 - 1:04:15) You know, I totally agree. I actually posted something like that before my last account got deleted on Instagram that that even truthers right can become addicted to, you know, Instagram and to getting the truth out there and having to have people wake up and really force their impressions on everybody. And you're right. I mean, there's science, we know we've had people that have left, you know, Instagram and Facebook come out and testify that they know exactly like, you know, what your eye movement means, and they're tracking everything. And so that's what I'm like, you know, the best thing we can do is stay off of these is somebody, somebody called it you ghost and you post and you go like, I'll go make a post and then I'll get off of there, try to engage as much as I can, but then get off and go live the rest of my life. They don't want us to do they want us even those, you know, those of us on the right side, right on the side of truth, they want us consumed by the technology. And you know, my I made a post today that I had one of my accounts had 150,000 followers on it, and they just deleted it one day. And, you know, had I not done the work over the last couple of years, that would have thrown me for the loop. Because, you know, my identity would have been in having this huge following on Instagram. And luckily, I had done the work. So I was like, this is a freaking joke. I mean, you guys, it doesn't affect me. And that's one thing I want to point out, too, is that one thing in my healing, I've really, really learned, I said at the beginning that my my concept of narcissism has really shifted. And what it's really evolved into is taking personal responsibility for myself. Because what I think if you really step back and look is what everybody that's going along with this narrative is they've been able to keep them in very much a victim consciousness. So everybody's blaming deflecting, no one's willing, you know, none of these people are willing to take personal responsibility for their lives. They think a shot and injection is going to give them health rather than changing their lives. I'm you're changing the way they eat, changing the way they view their bodies and how to live in an integrated way. They want it easy. And they want to blame shame and, you know, reject real health for becoming a dependent victim of, you know, pharma. It's tragic to watch. Yeah, that's how it was when I when I got out of that relationship. And yes, terrible things did happen to me. But but I would say that's a really pivotal point in my healing, when I was able to say, you know what, what happened to me happened to me. And I would have to go through it, you know, they say healing happens on a spiral, and I would just go around and around with it, and revisit these, you know, concepts in these wounds, until you know, they would just begin to not affect me anymore. I wouldn't have that electrical charge with them anymore. And I shifted from like, oh, you did this to me into Yes, that happened, you know, happened. And I would be able to say that without a charge now. And now it's even leading me into, you know, from Oh, you did this to me to Yes, that happened to you know what, it was all for good. It was all for good. And that's a huge leap to make. And it does take a lot of time to get there. But it's by far the most freeing, you know, place I've been in in my entire life, to take personal accountability for where I was, and what happened to me. And to understand that in the very end, it was all for a really magnificent, you know, magnificent part of me to open up and expand. [Speaker 2] (1:04:16 - 1:04:27) Yeah, truly. And again, it's not like we're saying there aren't victims. There are victims, people are victimized. People spend time in victim consciousness. But do you live there? Exactly. [Speaker 1] (1:04:28 - 1:04:40) And yeah, that's very good point. I mean, I do have to go back and recount, you know, this did happen to me, I'm not going to negate it, I'm going to validate that that did happen to me. But I just don't give it the power that it used to have. [Speaker 2] (1:04:41 - 1:05:31) Yeah. And what you said at the end is really cool. Because earlier, I actually want to say, like, do you have regrets? Because that's an interesting term that people talk about. And it's like, well, if you've gone through this hero's journey, and you've taken this lessons, the lessons that the Creator, you know, like giving you this life to go on this, go on this journey, and take these challenge and then become who you are sitting here right now having this conversation with us. It's just an interesting subject to talk about. So I'm, I'm curious, like, based on even what you just said of how you've, you've come to this realization from like blaming others to saying this is something that happened, and then realizing this was all to continue the evolution of my soul, to have me be who I am to break the cycles from my conditioning and to then pass things on for wherever I go in the next life through eternity, you know, so what's your view on regrets? Like, what are your thoughts about that? [Speaker 1] (1:05:31 - 1:06:16) Zero, I mean, I'm just, you know, I told somebody a while ago, those, those big easy, the easy buttons they used to have for like, Office Max or whatever. I'm like, if that button were in front of me, and I was like, you know, when I have to press it again, I'd press it again in a heartbeat. I would choose to do it this way, only because of what I know, and who I am, and how I'm able to be present in the world and be an observer and not get pulled into all that pain and just the absolute chaos that I see other people still stuck in. No, no question, I would do it again in a heartbeat the same way. The same. Actually be worried a little bit that it wouldn't turn out the same way because it's amazing now. But I would trust that it would all work out, you know, the way it's supposed to. Yeah. [Speaker 3] (1:06:16 - 1:06:30) If you have self love, you can't have regret. Because if you like who you are, then how can you regret any one of the singular events that culminated into into you being who you are? You know, I totally agree. [Speaker 1] (1:06:30 - 1:07:33) I also have come to understand too, that even those people that abuse me, I have a deep love and respect for them. Because I have learned, you know, when you're a victim, and I was very victimized, I don't want to ever negate that. But it was such a painful place to be where you're continually blaming people for your own pain, and to be able to shift and transmute out of that into one of personal responsibility and empowerment, and then be able to look back and actually realize that those people and granted, maybe it wasn't, you know, they're doing consciously, but they really, really gave you I think it's, I forget who it is, but said somebody gave me a box of darkness. And it was the best gift I ever, you know, had. And that really is, it just depends on, you know, what you want to do with it. I mean, our biggest breakdowns can actually become our biggest breakthroughs, if we are willing to, you know, pony up to the bar and, you know, go in there and take it. [Speaker 3] (1:07:34 - 1:07:34) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:07:34 - 1:07:35) And leave it. [Speaker 3] (1:07:35 - 1:08:51) Well, it's almost like all these events are constantly prodding us to take responsibility. But the more that we evade that responsibility, the more the cycle perpetuates until we're like, alright, giddy up, I'm going to take the reins now and start even on on the smallest level, one thing that I can do to start clawing my power back, you know, instead of constantly giving it away. And that seems overwhelming to a lot of people because they think they want their problems to be solved overnight, or there's one big thing that's going to fix everything. But no, it's a matter of you listening intuitively to just the most surface little thing that you need to deal with, to then get to the deeper layers of what your problems actually are. You know, and I mean, we have to have the journey, we have to have the right of passage, even on a healing path, you can't have instant healing, because it's it's never going to last for you. Unless you had the experience yourself, you flex the muscle of discernment through that process to actually stand on the other side and be like, I went through something, I had the experience, and I now I now have the embodied knowledge of where I was, and where I am and what happened in the middle, you know, [Speaker 1] (1:08:53 - 1:09:12) completely, it is it's, you have to be able to have that, like, yeah, that perspective of like, this is where I was, and where I am now and see that journey, as it's unfolded for you, and you're, it's not going to happen when you're driving through a football stadium and getting an injection, you know, in your arm, it just, that's not how the world works at all. [Speaker 2] (1:09:18 - 1:09:22) It's like I said, it's sometimes just sometimes nice to take a breath and enjoy the silence. [Speaker 3] (1:09:23 - 1:09:54) Absolutely, man. It's just it's, it's shocking, and it's saddening to think, you know, so many people believe that this this needle is the be all and end all of this fabricated freaking situation that we're living in, in the first place, like just looking at it, it just blows my mind to how people can buy into what's taken place, and then even buy into the resolution and being this injection, you know, [Speaker 2] (1:09:55 - 1:11:23) on some level, it's like, again, it makes sense, based on how culture has impacted humanity. I mean, even just from like, the internet, like people do people read books anymore, you know, it's like they just click on the clickbait art, they just look at headlines. Oh, I looked at a headline, I know what's happening in the world. And now I'm going to like tell everyone about that based on a headline, because I just want something really quick. I don't need to put the work in and actually to take the time and to turn the pages and to have something inspire introspection, because it's like, there's always the next thing to do the next thing to do. So like, of course, when the government goes, Oh, do you want to get on with your life and get on and do the next thing? Like, just take this quick thing. And the next thing we'll go back to normal. So people because they're there, they've been primed for so long to just go to the next thing, the next thing. Oh, this relationship takes work. Oh, I don't need that. I could just swipe right and find a new relation. I could just swipe right find a new relation. I don't need to look in the mirror. I don't need to feel the pain. Again, this is why we talked about and it's part of my work is to be as healthy as you can, to allow this stuff to bubble up from the unconscious. So you can face it and deal with it and integrate it and see how that then shifts you and changes you. So no, it really is about disconnecting from the culture disconnecting from the matrix in order to even come to these realizations. Because if you're hooked into it, and you're in it, it's just normal. Like, we're the crazy one, you don't know. [Speaker 1] (1:11:23 - 1:12:02) And yeah, you don't know. That's all you know. It's so true. You don't know any different. That's so true. And like a year ago, I was on this, like, I'm so enlightened kick. Like, I'm out of the matrix. I'm done. And it's like, you know, the matrix is, it's a constant daily practice to, you know, I'll find something new attached to me or I'll see something I'm like, Oh, shit, I didn't realize I was, you know, going down that way. Um, it's a constant process for me, at least of having to see, observe and acknowledge the tentacles, you know, that some type of conditioning or old wounding has on me, and then do the work to remove them. It's a lot. [Speaker 3] (1:12:03 - 1:12:28) What a now that you've had the journey, and you've, you've witnessed, you know, I mean, well, what, what you had to do to get to the other side, for those listening, what are the signposts of healing? What are the signposts of authenticity coming into our lives? What do you notice along the way that you recognize as okay, I'm on I am on the right track now, you know? [Speaker 1] (1:12:29 - 1:17:08) Oh, that's a really tough one, Joel. For me, you're now I mean, as I sit now, and I'm, you know, five years, I'd say my awakening started happening in 2014. So I've been doing this probably seven years, not that other people don't do it faster, or can, I would say for me now, it's it's just a, I call it resistance. And it's so funny, because all these terms, you know, four years ago, I'd be like, I don't want to talk about resistance, because I was resisting it. Really learning to like, you know, feel into resistance. And when I feel in my body, right, when I feel this resistance that I'm learning, have learned to become really curious, oh, what is that about? And, you know, start to try to uncover it. So it's, it's a process of, I call it, I am able at a point now where I'm able to observe what's going on, but not be absorbed by it, if that makes sense. You know, I'm able to, I think Viktor Frankl said, between stimulus and respond to space. And that's where I think I'm at least at is where for the most part, I still am human, but I'm able to respond, choose to respond to something instead of reacting to it. And that's a really, really powerful place to be. But it's also extremely peaceful. And I can't, you know, it's, it's a great time in my life. And as much as the world is burning around me, I feel very, very content and very, very peaceful. Because of that. So for you, that's that took a long time, though, to answer your question, y'all took me a long time to get there. It was just knee deep and shit. I mean, face down and shit for a number of years, breaking down all these, these paradigms and belief systems and conditioning that I had been through. I would tell someone though, if they are, you know, in a in an abusive relationship, one of the best things for me was to start to take accountability for the role that you played in that relationship. If you look at how vilified narcissists are, which in my opinion, again, is just unintegrated and unresolved trauma. It's a trauma response from childhood, typically, we are vilifying these people, and making them so responsible for so much. And all that's doing is taking away our power to heal ourselves. And we're continually blaming them. One of my most powerful coaches that I worked with, I started working with him about was only about eight months ago, you know, we got on the phone, and I worked with many coaches, mentors, and I started telling him, you know, this is what he did to me. And this is what he did to me. And this is what he did to me, just this litany, you know, list that I always had running in my head that I typed up laminated. And he was like, he did nothing to you. It's like, bullshit, he did this. Did you hear me? Did you not hear what I said? And I went through it again. He was like, he did nothing to you. And so that was a really powerful lesson for me, though. Because when Instagram went through, you know, four weeks ago, I put a lot of work into my account. My one account was a whole just trajectory of my healing over six years, it was very, very important to me very personal. And then they took out three other of my accounts the same day. But I was able to sit there and just be like, they did nothing to me, because I would not give that power over them to them to the victim. And I really did feel that I was able to be like, you know what, they didn't do anything to me, you did nothing to me, because I won't allow you to have that power over me. So that's what I would tell people that are in, whether it's with an intimate partner or a parent. If it's an abusive situation, yes, we make choices. And we usually make those choices when we're in the state to survive. And that is what the rest of the world has is in right now there, they have them in a survival state. Once you can begin to take responsibility for yourself, for the role you've played, for the role moving forward for your choices and actions and say, you know what, this all ends with me, I am responsible. Eventually, it doesn't happen overnight. But you start to move into a place of creation. And creation, to me is the opposite of survival. And that's where things begin to flow. They call it the flow state, at least for me, things are very open fluid, you don't feel as constricted and oppressed. And it's a really, really powerful place to be. So that's what you need to answer your question, I would say, start looking at the responsibility that you're playing in these roles in your life that are causing you pain. [Speaker 2] (1:17:10 - 1:18:34) You did say one of my favorite quotes that I just have to read. It's Viktor Frankl's quote that I talk about all the time. And I just think it's so powerful. And it is between stimulus and response. There is a space like you said, in that space is our power to choose our response and our response lies our growth and our freedom. And it's it's so beautiful. And that exemplifies the work that needs to be done on an individual level is like, what can you do to build more resilience? What can you do to support the regulation of your nervous system? What can you do to to, you know, let go of those gutted neural pathways and build new neural pathways. So when something does happen, there is that space to go Wow, while normal, or maybe not even you would in the in the moment, you'd be like, Oh, I used to do this, but you would just do something different. And then upon reflection, you go, huh? Yeah. For 20 years, someone said this or did this, and I responded in this way. And now I didn't. And for me, that's, those are the signposts for me is when I can compare back to previous behavior, previous actions I've taken, based on some stimulus, and then realize that I've made a different choice. I go and then the result is something better in my life, like something that brings me joy and fulfillment and satisfaction. Okay, okay, cool. Let's, let's keep going down that pathway and see what that brings. So I just love that you brought that quote. I love that quote. [Speaker 3] (1:18:35 - 1:19:09) And yeah, if for me that that quote speaks to just as I reflect on my own journey, becoming more grounded, becoming more embodied, you know, externalizing less, because when we're censored, when we're embodied, when we're grounded, we do have more choice, right. And that's what the freedom that Frenkel refers to is pointing at. Because when we're when we're in that reactive state, it's purely because we're not even here. Right? We're just we're just we're just responding from everything that we've been conditioned to. [Speaker 2] (1:19:11 - 1:19:37) Yeah. And then, of course, then the news can plaster something across the screen, screen, screen. And we're just in that state where react. Oh, my God, did you hear this? Oh, my God, there's a new variant. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God, Nicki Minaj is saving us. Oh, my God. You know what I mean? It's just like, and it's on both sides. You know, it's insane. We fall victim to the hopium, you know, on both sides. Well, if we just everyone just does this thing. [Speaker 1] (1:19:37 - 1:20:12) Yeah. If you just listen, if you just wake up, and if you have kind of like a panic, I will say though, my comedic relief, I don't watch TV at all. Once a week, I will turn on on my on my iPad, NBC nightly news. And the theme song literally sounds like Star Wars. It's all like, just listen to it one time. The headlines are just literally doom and gloom. And I'm like, this is freaking comedy hour to me now to watch this stuff. It's like watching a fake show. It's it's just beyond my scope of comprehension, how how stupid it is. It's a clown show. [Speaker 3] (1:20:12 - 1:20:18) It really, really is. They created reality TV. So we went realize that they've been creating reality TV the whole fucking time. [Speaker 1] (1:20:19 - 1:20:27) Again, once you see it, once you see it from that angle, you guys I know, you know, you can't unsee it. You can't the other way anymore. [Speaker 3] (1:20:27 - 1:20:40) It's literally the Truman show. It's literally the Truman show and just the characters that they think, you mean, are buying into this, this illusion, you know, like, where, where, where are the stage walls, man? Where the fuck are the stage walls? [Speaker 1] (1:20:41 - 1:20:43) Exactly. Yep. Where's that door? [Speaker 2] (1:20:45 - 1:20:57) Yeah. God, I love that movie. Jim Carrey, but he's one of the good guys, bro. What'd you say? What'd you say? He's one of the good guys. You know what I do? [Speaker 1] (1:20:57 - 1:21:31) I will say it's very interesting. I was actually talking to somebody today and I never got to ask a question to her directly. But what do you guys think about the shows that do give us the answers like the Matrix like that? Because, you know, a lot of it's predictive programming like, you know, the like, I am legend with the, you know, the bad guys are the walking dead, Deeper Vendetta. masks. But then there's also those movies that show us our true power and kind of show us how to break out of the Matrix. And what do you guys think? Is that like revelation of the method where they have to reveal? What are your thoughts on that? [Speaker 2] (1:21:32 - 1:22:43) So I think it's a combination of things. I think part of it is if you believe in that law, that they need to tell you what's happening, that that's part of it. It's the revelation of the method. I think also that it's not like every single person in an industry is the bad person, you know, like, I don't think like, not all in on it. Government is horrible. And it's just once Marxism and socialism to take over, and us to move into this totalitarian state. I just don't believe that. And I think the same thing for Hollywood. But also, I brought this up in another podcast, is that I also think some of these movies that are showing us how to be and how to live, I think also serve the purpose of allowing people to live vicariously through the characters. So they don't have to live that way in their life. So let's say everyone's, you know, been saying, watch Brave Heart, watch Lord of the Rings, which, you know, I love those movies. But for most people, especially if you're plugged into the matrix, you're living their normal life. But then you watch that movie, and you get to get sucked in. And then you get to be Brave Heart. And then you get to be Aragorn. And you feel it. And you're just like, Oh, I'm living this life. And I'm having this experience. And then you go back to your life. And you don't really do anything, you don't make any changes, because you got the fix. [Speaker 1] (1:22:44 - 1:22:46) Wow, I never thought of it. That's very good. [Speaker 2] (1:22:46 - 1:23:07) The drug. And so I think that has an impact on, on a lot of people, not everyone, like, I like, maybe even for me, to some degree, it's affected me. But I think because I know how Hollywood is used to the degree that I know, I'm not saying I know everything, is that I can watch that movie and be really inspired, you know, like separate a little bit from it. [Speaker 3] (1:23:07 - 1:23:26) So that's what I think, Joel, if you have anything to add, I agree, you get to have the pseudo rite of passage. So you don't actually enact that in your in your actual reality. And you may, you're just maintained within the cubicles and you're in your routine. And you never think that I need to become the hero of my own life. Because that hero is kind of filled in for us through Hollywood. [Speaker 1] (1:23:26 - 1:24:00) That's interesting, you guys, because I would also parallel that parallel that with with professional sports, because have emasculated men to the degree that they sit there with, you know, carrying 50 pounds of beer gut, you know, on their bodies living vicariously through these professional athletes who are making millions. And these men are so rejected and dejected and just, you know, down and out with themselves that they live vicariously through those those athletes, it's it's tragic. Yeah, and some of these bread is eating their own life. [Speaker 2] (1:24:00 - 1:24:32) Yeah, and some of the bread and circuses, it serves the purpose that let's say there's this like, nozzle of like, you know, where you're, you're the deepest parts of you, your authentic self is trying to get you to, like, feel the pain of your existence, but then you get to like, watch the TV show or, or watch the movie of watch Braveheart or watch the football game, and it lets out just enough little air. So okay, I could go back to my life, where if that didn't exist, I think people would have to face the truth of the reality much faster, much quicker, and shit would get real. [Speaker 1] (1:24:32 - 1:24:38) Wow, it's really profound. I never thought about it. That helps me a lot, because I've been wondering that makes sense. Makes total sense. [Speaker 3] (1:24:39 - 1:25:01) The only one other vantage point that I'd add to it, like with movies like the Matrix, the Truman Show, etc, is that if there is an organic awakening happening, now they have the opportunity to direct the narrative. Like this is this is what the awakening is. This is this is what's actually going on. You may not they still get the chance to control the storyline, because they've kind of fed it to you in a way. [Speaker 1] (1:25:01 - 1:25:03) Kind of like revelations in the Bible. [Speaker 2] (1:25:04 - 1:25:32) I mean, it's just interesting to think about and pontificate and, and just see like, what are these things and they can be used for multiple purposes. It's like Shakespeare. It's like one line can have multiple meanings. So, you know, a sports game, a movie can have multiple impacts and effects based on the person who's looking at it and watching it and taking it in, like everything we're talking about right now. Like, I wouldn't say for everyone, you know, watching Braveheart goes, Okay, well, I don't need to do anything now. I don't need to fight for freedom and scream freedom. [Speaker 1] (1:25:35 - 1:26:07) So all I know is I called Kelly Brogan like three years ago, and I was knee deep in it. And I was really like, angry, frustrated. I was like, how many birth canals does this person have to go through? Because I would get through with one and then there would be another one and like the rabbit hole. That's the one thing I've learned rabbit holes never end these rabbit holes, these red pills, they will never end. It's just the tentacles that keep you know, appearing and you have to keep doing the work to detach from them. But every day it's like, wow, it's it's just fascinating to watch and remember of them. [Speaker 2] (1:26:07 - 1:26:16) Yeah, and also the need to know can be its own form of slavery. Oh, completely. You know, it's like, because there is, we're never gonna know everything completely. [Speaker 1] (1:26:17 - 1:26:49) You know, like you said earlier, I wanted I used to want to research everything. And now I'm like, some of the shit I just don't care about. Okay, that is how it is. Great. I'm gonna go play with my dogs. You know, I'm gonna go outside and take a break because I don't I don't I don't really care. That doesn't interest me. I don't need to know, you know, the angle. I think we all have a pretty good understanding of what they're trying to do. And I don't need to, I don't feel the need to know the nitty gritty anymore. I don't need Bill Gates his address. I don't need to know, you know, his his, you know, financial taxes and all that information anymore. I don't care. [Speaker 3] (1:26:49 - 1:27:42) Doesn't matter to me. And to me, this is where individuality is so important as well. Because you mean, yeah, okay, we've got the world out there. And we know what the what, what the world is doing. But what are we doing for our own world? You know, I mean, for me, I take the viewpoint that we're all individual universes unto ourselves. You know what I mean? So I'm here to I'm here to feed myself. I don't need to keep feeding that narrative on to explore myself. And then bring bring my insides out, you know, I mean, and so yeah, delve into the wonder of me, why do I need to know everything about what's going on out there when I got millions of riches inside me, which I'm never going to discover all of them. And I think if each one of us did that, and really discovered who we are, why we're here, who we're born to become and focus our attention and our energy in exploring that, then all of a sudden, the entire veil will fall away, because it doesn't even matter anymore. [Speaker 2] (1:27:46 - 1:27:57) Well, my last question I have for you is, well, what's next for you? Like, what are you what's your what's your continuing mission? Like, you know, the big tech people, they've taken your account down. [Speaker 1] (1:27:58 - 1:28:02) Guys, I started another account last night. Okay. [Speaker 2] (1:28:03 - 1:28:04) I just followed it. [Speaker 3] (1:28:04 - 1:28:12) So family of all time, you have to be do. I said you guys are the most censored family of all time. [Speaker 1] (1:28:12 - 1:30:02) Like it just Oh, yeah, it's just funny. Alex back on too. But we just kind of laugh. It's kind of a joke to me. Now. I will say that they did a superb job with Instagram. It is a very addictive platform, because it's just so user friendly, but it's also very interactive, you know, I mean, with the stories and the way that the feet show up, it's, it's, it's amazing. So I kind of did it as a joke just to get back on there. But I also miss the community on there. And I'm going to, you know, put it up there for as long as it, it lasts until they, you know, take me down again, if they do. But I am building my own website called we the freed fr ed. And that will have a platform and a subscription service if people want to, you know, come on there. And what what will be on there will be me and my kids. And we'll be talking about our own individual healing. So mine would be like the psychiatric drugs, the abusive relationship, and then theirs would be, you know, their own healing stories of healing, but then we would also be talking about collectively, how we've healed as a family. I also want to highlight other people in the world that have stories of healing that we can put on the site. And I call that we the freed, meaning I have declared myself free from these, you know, whatever type of oppressive system, whether it be, you know, governments, relationships, belief systems, drugs, addictions, you know, unconscious coping mechanisms. It's something that I'm really going to be super inspired by. And I also at my house and starting a regenerative farm here. And I have no idea what I'm doing, like literally no idea. So that I'll also highlight that on there too, because I you know, I figure that that's one area we all need to be moving towards is self sustainability. And I thought I could share my process of that here at my house and show people how we're doing that. [Speaker 3] (1:30:02 - 1:30:20) Amazing. So nice to have a container to pour your creativity into and the whole website sounds like a something beautiful, which will evolve into something great for all of you. With such a such a pleasure to have you on here to chat with you and to connect with you. Honestly, so so grateful to have this conversation. [Speaker 1] (1:30:21 - 1:31:02) Yeah, I feel I appreciate you guys. I really appreciate you guys. Because the world changes when we have more men, especially, you know, really stepping into their role as a sovereign being and modeling that behavior. You know, as we said, they're really doing everything they can to emasculate men, and take away, you know, your your power on an individual basis and make you think, you know, wearing a dress and things like that are what, you know, the world needs from you. And we really need for more men like you to stand stand up and be willing to speak truth, even if it's very, very painful. So I just, you know, owe a huge debt of gratitude to you guys as well. [Speaker 2] (1:31:02 - 1:31:05) Thank you, Ali. I really appreciate it. [Speaker 3] (1:31:06 - 1:31:23) Alright, guys, thank you for listening to he for the truth. To our members, we really appreciate you guys. Ali, thank you so much. I know everyone listening is going to draw so much goodness from everything shared here today. And we'll see you all next time. Take care.