Alec Zeck Keeping It Real

[Speaker 3] (0:00 - 0:07) You are now listening to the Here for the Truth podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Yerasimos. [Speaker 2] (0:11 - 1:41) All right, everybody, welcome to episode 105 of Here for the Truth. I'm Joel Rafiti. I've got my co-host Yerasimos with me as always. Today, Alec Zek returns. His initial episode with us was 44, all about debunking virology. Today, we have a beautiful, incredibly deep conversation, really just about the truth-seeking journey and its application as we explore these different topics. Alec is someone that keeps it real, someone I've got incredible respect for, and this is just a real wholesome, raw conversation, which I think you guys are really, really, really going to love. Before we dive into that, Friends of the Truth is our exclusive community of members for truth seekers. This is the chance for you to get a telegram community and join the amazing conversation that takes place behind the scenes with our members. You get three calls a month, one live teaching, one community hangout call, and one guest expert workshop. In March, Alec is actually our guest expert. He'll be hosting that workshop. It's relatively inexpensive. So if you're down, if you're keen to learn more, if you want to have your truth-seeking fire stoked by others on the path, then please check out friendsofthetruth.co. And without any further ado, please enjoy this episode. All right, everybody, welcome to episode 105 of Here for the Truth. We have the great Alec Zek returning. He joined us first way back in episode 44. Alec, such a pleasure to have you back in the house. How are you, man? [Speaker 1] (1:42 - 1:44) Good, man. Living life. [Speaker 2] (1:45 - 1:46) Nice. [Speaker 1] (1:46 - 1:53) Laughing a little bit, coming off of laughing a little bit because I was taking a drink of water and your awesome most said, mmm, piss. [Speaker 2] (1:55 - 2:18) I've been looking forward to the conversation. And yes, episode 44 was our first one with you. And that happened to be our first strike on YouTube, where they banned us for a week. And that was before we even published the episode. We just uploaded it to our account and we got the X. So obviously, we're off YouTube. We've been deleted off of them, off of there for, I guess, a few months now. [Speaker 1] (2:21 - 2:46) Dude, I'm trying not to continue to create that reality. I was talking to Dr. Edith about that because one of the things I put at the bottom of my podcast is like I on the show notes, I'm censored on every platform. Please help us get the word out by sharing this with your friends and family. And it's like, am I creating that reality at this point? I don't know. I don't know. Or is it or is it just saying what's true? You know what I mean? [Speaker 2] (2:46 - 2:49) Yeah. At the same time, reality is. Right. [Speaker 1] (2:50 - 2:59) The reality is. Yes. But if I'm trying to make that no longer a thing, by continually naming that as a thing, am I continuing to perpetuate it? [Speaker 2] (3:00 - 3:26) Yeah. I mean, potentially. But I think that's your call in terms of what kind of story you want to attach to. I mean, there's benefits to highlighting the fact that the information that we're providing is certainly being censored and is being threatened around the Internet. But I mean, if you feel like that's not the way that you want to really present or move forward anymore, then I think that's a total individual call, in my opinion. [Speaker 1] (3:26 - 3:53) This is something I was talking about with my members. In my membership, we have a men's group and a women's group. In our men's group, we're talking about this. Um, like how to balance out. Naming what is true and raising awareness to the dark things that are happening without. Being one of the people that helps perpetuate it, you know what I mean? [Speaker 2] (3:53 - 5:53) Yeah, I think I'm going to give my opinion on that is obviously it depends on who in you is saying it, who in you is highlighting it, what aspect of you, what's the tone behind it, what's the energy behind it? If you're like, oh, my God, did you see what's going on? Oh, my God, I don't want to do my fucking family. You know what I mean? Versus like, yeah, these are these are let's say facts. This is what's going on. Can we utilize this information to become more empowered, to take more ownership over our lives, to do what needs to be done, to take care of ourselves, take care of our families without allowing it to overwhelm us? And then this is where and we just had a great episode with us, Irene Lyon and Seth Lyon. We've had them on the podcast before and they're experts in the nervous system. This is where when you do the real inner work, the great work of regulating your nervous system and integrating aspects that have been repressed, you can be more grounded. You can be faced with certain information and not let it impact you in the same way. And so I think the energy behind it and the intention behind it is important because we don't want to stick our heads in the sand to a certain degree and completely repress and ignore and go la la la la la la either. Yeah. Yeah. Like our entire message here at Here for the Truth is, OK, there's evil, weird shit going on, going on the planet. Things aren't idealistic. But how can we live the most inspired, empowered lives possible despite everything going on? And to me, the first step in doing that is choosing to see reality clearly. Right. If we're ignorant to any aspect of reality, then basically we're walking on one foot. We have to know what's going on in order to know how to move forward. And that, in fact, is one of the foundational principles of this whole concept of self-esteem is the choice to know reality. But there's a difference between choosing to see reality and choosing to just highlight continually that world, the doom and gloom narrative, which is I don't think any of us are doing. I've never seen you do that in any way whatsoever. Rather, we're simply saying, hey, guys, this is what's going on and here's some ideas as to how we can move forward. [Speaker 1] (5:54 - 7:47) You know, Joel, you said despite what's going on. And I would almost say despite and because of what's going on. And. I've said this before, I look back on, you know, you're awesome. You and I have talked about my childhood trauma quite a bit. And it's like it's pretty I went through some pretty fucked up shit growing up. Right. And I look back at those things that I went through with with almost like gratitude, reverence and appreciation that I went through that because I went through that. I am now the person that I am today because I use that as an opportunity to look at all of those things that I was exposed to all those things that quote happened to me. And I was like, OK, that's exactly what I don't want to do in my relationship with my wife, my relationship with my kids, for my family, for my community. And it inspired me to take action to create a better life for myself. And I think the same can be applied to everything that's going on in the world. It's not only despite those things, it's also because of those things, those things acted as catalysts to push us deeper into our own authenticity, deeper into questioning and having to wrestle with what we want for our individual lives and our lives, for our families and for our communities, what we believe in, what we truly value, looking at entire societal structures. It really brought forth an authentic opportunity to reevaluate all those things. And for those who are willing to kind of like we're talking about here, accept reality as it is instead of trying to avoid it or on other end of the spectrum, just like only focusing on like, did you kind of like you're talking about, did you see that? Did you see that? Did you see that? For those who are able to accept it as is, we are then able to say, OK, what do we want to build off of now that we have this as the baseline? [Speaker 2] (7:47 - 7:54) That's right. Yeah. Yeah, I hear you, man. And the thing is this, would the three of us be here right now if the events of the last few years didn't happen? [Speaker 1] (7:54 - 9:12) No, dude. No, I'd still be in the army. I would have I had I had a religious accommodation in the army that I had applied for in late twenty nineteen for vaccines. And I was already looking at going into this like specific job in the army called Functional Area 51. Ironically, I know Area 51, but it's called Functional Area 51, which is like the acquisition core for the army where you're working with civilian contractors to basically broker deals between the army and these contractors for equipment, for like new technology and things like that. And I was looking to go into that job or become a physical therapist. So I was already like, OK, I can justify staying in this inherently corrupt organization. I know the global war on terror is a complete fraud. I know that 9-11 was an inside job. I know all these things, but I can justify it because I'm not working a combat job and I have a vaccine accommodation and I wasn't sharing with my family and friends, even like my close friends who are grooms in my wedding, my authentic perceptions on health. We were just like living that way for our family. And then all this nonsense happened and it pushed me to a point of authenticity that I could not turn back from. And I'm so grateful for it. Yeah, man. [Speaker 2] (9:13 - 10:27) Itadakimasu. Oh, itadakimasu. Yeah, itadakimasu. We talked about it on the podcast before, but a friend of mine, Gavin, it's a Japanese saying that a lot of people say before they have a meal is to give gratitude for everything, but it goes deeper. And he had, I think it was like a minister that kind of reframed it and he said, thank you for everything that it took to make this moment happen. So even right now, the three of us sitting here and having this conversation, it really allows, that idea really allows every moment to be sacred, especially because you think about everything you went through, your whole childhood, Joel's whole childhood, my childhood, your ancestors, all the ancestors that had to come together and make choices to meet each other. I mean, it's kind of awesome and mind blowing when you think about that for us to sit here right now, in this moment and having this conversation. It's Itadakimasu. How do you spell it? Well, it's I-T-A-D-I-T-A-D-I-T-A-D-I-T-A-D. Are we already doing this? I don't know. Anyways, well, it doesn't end with like a... It ends with a masu, M-A-S-U. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (10:27 - 10:27) Okay. [Speaker 2] (10:28 - 10:29) Yeah. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (10:29 - 10:30) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (10:31 - 10:32) Yeah. You'll find it. You'll find it. [Speaker 1] (10:32 - 10:33) We'll get it. [Speaker 2] (10:34 - 10:38) Yeah. That coaching session will cost you a thousand dollars, by the way. [Speaker 1] (10:41 - 11:49) Definitely. It is funny. I came in here like asking you guys for advice, like, what do you guys think about this? Because dude, it's, it's, it's relevant to me because it's something that I've been wrestling with, like just, just the, the, the balance it's, it's, uh, it's both. And, and not everything is both. And there are absolutely polarizations like black and white things that I take hard stances on of course. But this is an example of one of those. It's like, I see a lot of new agey people who pretend everything's all love and light and they worship crystals and they just want to ascend. And then on the opposite end of the spectrum, I see people who are like what I would call black pillars that only focus on the dark things that are happening and everything has symbolism in it and everyone's controlled opposition and we're all fucked no matter what we do. And it's like, how do we marry those things? Because the black pillars are justified in that they're skeptical of literally everything. The new agers to some degree, like there's elements of that that are good of, of trying to find the love that is present. Right. But how do we marry those two things together? [Speaker 2] (11:49 - 12:44) Because both of those groups, what they despise in each other is what they've disowned in themselves. Yeah. 100%. You hit the nail on the head there. And this is the way the psyche operates. There's a compensatory mechanism to it. So if you over identify with one way of being or certain ways of being, the opposite goes down deep into the unconscious or it's undeveloped in you. And so really, when we look at these people that we over over admire, but especially the ones that judge harshly, there's something in there for us to, to learn from. And I say this as someone who can be super self-righteous. I know we've had this conversation before and I can like have my opinions and strong opinions, but there's something to gain from that. And so I think what Joel said hits the nail on the head. We've lost the nuance, you know, everyone, everyone wants very simple black and white ways of perceiving reality, but reality is just not that simple. It's not. It's not. [Speaker 1] (12:44 - 13:49) It's full of freaking nuance. I'll even say this dude, to some degree, like I've immersed myself in what you'd call the terrain camp. Right. And I am really knowledgeable on the lack of proof of viruses. I could go toe to toe with literally anyone from the other side of that argument. One thing that I find frustrating amongst people in the terrain camp is the outright lack of acknowledgement of personal anecdotal stories, especially when there's a lot of them of the phenomenon of contagion or people getting sick in the same space. Like there are many examples, especially for those of us who are parents. We know that where our kids like both experienced something at the exact same time and then someone else in our household experienced those symptoms, the exact same ones like a day later. And it sure as hell seems like something was passed. Now do I think it was a physical particle? Absolutely not. I think there's no proof of that. I have my own thoughts on what's causing it. But other people will look at that and be like, no, nothing happened there. It's simply just exposed to the same toxins. And yes, it could be. But there's other things that are possibly at play there. [Speaker 3] (13:49 - 13:58) Let me let me ask you this, if you could make a five minute argument for contagion, or for contagion. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (13:58 - 15:14) Wow. I think that would be it. I think you take any parents experience or experience of someone who works at a daycare and they see waves of similar symptoms go through kids or chickenpox or measles or these symptoms that are very specific that happen amongst populations of people or of children. That sure as hell looks like something is passed that is contagious. Now, again, contagion implies particles that are passed from person to person via viruses or bacteria or something like that. When it comes to viruses, viruses have never been shown to exist, nor have they obviously shown to have been to be the cause of disease. And then when it comes to bacteria, we know they exist, but they've never been shown to be pathogenic. But it's it's like that in and of itself is an element of nuance that is missed. I think when we get in these identity groups, we almost divulge into a form of group think in a lot of ways. And it really is hard being a true free thinker because you're never going to align with any one group on anything. And that's just how it is. [Speaker 2] (15:15 - 15:46) I can't tell you. I can't even tell you how many times I've said this where it's like there's not one person that exists in this world where I'm like, I agree with everything they say. You know, I've always been someone that's been curious to just like see what resonates and what works. Like I can't align myself like I can't be like, I'm a Buddhist. I'm a yogi. I'm a new age. I'm this. It just doesn't land for me. And the other thing based on what you were saying, first, I want to say anyone that wants to get a little bit of a deeper dive on what Alec was just saying, episode 44, he went into it. But also he has a couple amazing presentations on the Internet. [Speaker 1] (15:47 - 15:48) I can send them to you that you can put in the show notes. [Speaker 2] (15:49 - 17:01) Yeah, yeah. I did a recent one to doctors for covid ethics and then he did another one that was talking about the infectious paradigm or debunking the nonsense. But what I want to add, and because I know you're familiar with this work, is we can't leave consciousness at the door. No. And this is the thing that the materialists want to and the scientism cult, they don't acknowledge is that our body is always adapting to the thoughts that we have. And so even when you take in Dr. Homer's five biological laws and how how we we perceive certain things and that our body goes through these adaptive and healing processes, we don't understand how that can happen with a lot of people don't understand how that can happen within a family system. You know, let's say a child gets ill for for whatever reason, it's a it's a child. They're dealing with all sorts of things and conflicts and, you know, their consciousness isn't fully developed. That's going to impact the parents consciousness, you know, and vice versa. And so once the child gets better, there's a resolution to the parent. And so then they can show symptoms shortly after. So these things that unless you understand the nuance of the biology from this point of view, and I'm not saying you're saying they have all the germany medicine has all the answers to everything, but it's something that needs to be considered this body of knowledge. [Speaker 1] (17:02 - 19:02) The other thing that needs to be considered, I'll say this, the reason I became. So enthralled by the possibility that there were no viruses is first off that it's empowering, but it's it's dismantling a paradigm full of people that happen to be using that paradigm to in a weaponized way to force compliance and all these things. But it's that paradigm that came to the forefront where all these people were claiming to assertively know to definitively know that something was the truth and everyone else has to adopt it. And I'm always keen to find holes in anyone who thinks they know with certainty that something is the case. And that's, again, going back to the the flip side of that argument train versus versus germ is that a lot of people now in the train camp are saying that they know with certainty that there is no phenomenon of contagion, meaning that there is no disease that is passed, whether via particles or energetically between people. And I think personally, it's somewhat of there is energetic things at play that that we are, I don't want to say transmitting or passing, but there's something happening there via bioresonance or maybe even pheromonal, so outside the realm of energy. But the point is, something is happening there. And I think it's just that we don't know. And I think the paradox about this reality is a lot of these things like we aren't meant to fully know so that we can just keep exploring and offering our own ideas and thoughts on it individually and having to wrestle with these things. And maybe we'll know after this life if reincarnation is real. And we have that like after period where we're up there hanging out. I don't know. [Speaker 2] (19:02 - 19:20) Yeah, we'll be wearing hats. Hey, just real quickly. Make sure I can see your eyes. Yeah, yeah. Okay, we'll talk about that in a little bit. But I want to say I remember reading well, two books. One was The Secret Life of Plants. So the other one was The Hidden Life of Trees. [Speaker 1] (19:20 - 19:21) I just bought that book. [Speaker 2] (19:24 - 19:55) Fascinating, you know, because again, they highlight certain things in terms of how things can be communicated between plants between trees. And it's not happening from like this thing where something's floating in the sky and impacting there's there's a there's an intelligence that's beyond what I think many people can comprehend or measure with today's instruments. And so to apply that potentially to us, you know, if a group of people are together, or when you think about women, their periods, they spend a lot of time together, their periods line up or, or whatever the case may be. [Speaker 1] (19:55 - 19:56) Have you guys had Data Austin on your podcast? [Speaker 2] (19:56 - 19:58) No, I want to reach out to her. [Speaker 1] (19:58 - 20:28) I will give you I'll give you your contact info your audience needs to hear because like taking her work, and then Eileen McKusick's work, and then Germany medicine, it sort of creates a somewhat of a framework for what's going on when two or more people get sick in the same space. And there seems to be something passed between people. It's all these other energetic mechanisms, water that were, you know, our bodies are made of structured water. I know you guys probably had Andy Kaufman on. Yes, have Andy on talk. [Speaker 2] (20:28 - 20:30) Yeah, we did. But we didn't get too into that. [Speaker 1] (20:30 - 23:00) Okay. Anyway, so Andy's become really fascinated with water lately. It's funny. Like, 10 months ago, I spoke at an event alongside Andy, and I was speaking about virology, and he was speaking about water, which is just so funny to me. But anyway, it is funny. All these years, but yeah, like, I would have never thought that. And it was funny, too, because during my presentation, he was sitting like three rows back from the front. And I like jokingly told him before, like, hey, if I say something incorrect, just like raise your hand and correct me like joking around a little bit. He literally did that three times during my presentation. He raised his hand. He's like, well, actually, Alec. It was minor things. And he told me afterwards, he was really pleased with my presentation. It was cool. But anyway, so all these other things create like a framework. And one thing I want to share here is about belief. And a lot of people have different, especially like within the consciousness only model, which I typically ascribe to. Would it be ascribe or subscribe? Whatever, subscribe to a lot of people have different opinions about belief. But I don't think belief is necessarily a bad thing. And I think that belief is absolutely a real phenomenon. I think that what we believe to be true, we can actually create that reality, whether like actually bring it about by attracting and I fucking hate the law of attraction. And that's a whole conversation for another time. There's so much missing with that framework. But whether we believe it to be true, and it actually happens, we bring it about by attracting it or whether it's that because we believe to be true, we see that in reality, like we have like a lens over what we see projected on the reality. And I think our belief about symptoms being bad is actually perpetuating the reality that they're bad. And I always point to this study. I so surprised so many other people don't point to this is that according to a study published by the CDC in July of 2021, the second strongest risk factor for death associated with COVID was fear slash anxiety related disorders. That means people had already had a diagnosed fear slash anxiety related disorder accounted for was the second strongest risk factor that doesn't even account for people who are just in a perpetual state of fear or anxiety, but didn't have a diagnosed disorder, wind up in the hospital, ventilator room, disappear, all the things. So absolutely, our belief about disease being bad has an impact on it being bad. [Speaker 2] (23:02 - 24:40) I mean, I agree 100%. Again, coming back to consciousness, what are you thinking throughout your entire day? What's your sense of self? How do you interact and interface with your environment? You know, if you're constantly in a sympathetic state, you know, when you have those moments, when you get out of it, there's going to be an intense healing crisis. And that's something that people need to realize. And so how can you navigate life's challenges as gracefully as you can? And again, bringing it back to this idea is with as regulated of the nervous system as possible is going to support you from maybe not getting symptoms that are as intense and as hardcore. And at the end of the day, even if you do, just the knowledge that nature is doing what it does and your body isn't making any mistakes. What does that then do to your consciousness? What does that then do to your thinking process? I mean, you're moving to an empowered place instead of being in this place of like, something's wrong with me. What's happening? Oh, my God, I'm sick. I might die. Like, that's a much different frequency than, oh, okay, well, now I can think back. I had that thing happened. And now I went through this period and I've resolved something and my body's healing. Wow, it's amazing. I'm going to just take it. I'm going to go lay on the couch and rest. And maybe I need a little bit of support depending on how intense the healing crisis is. But like, that's just a completely different talk about black and white. You know, you had an image for those two things that I just said. It would be that image. You know, you see that meme going around the person on the bus and they're looking at the one side and it's like dark and whatever. And then the right side, they're looking at the sunshine. Like, it's more that. Even if it feels bad underneath it, you know, oh, this is this is good for me. There's a good thing that's happening. [Speaker 1] (24:41 - 25:56) Yeah, it's going back to what we talked about towards the beginning is it's like this is another example that is going through a really tough experience to come out better on the other side. If you just allow it, if you get out of the freaking way and stop making it out to be what it's not and allowing these mental constructs and our conditioning to get in the way and allow nature, our natural processes to do its job, you'll come out better on the other end. I mean, Joel, you have kids like I'm sure when you started discovering this, like we subscribe to natural health. Before we had our first son, he's five, right? He's almost five and a half now. And even then, though, when we first had him and we didn't vaccinate him, we were like so freaked out about him being around people so freaked out anytime he got sick, which was really rare, by the way. But when he did get sick, we're like, oh, my God, like, you know, we even went to the emergency room a couple of times on situations. Now, looking back, we're like, damn, we never needed to do any of that. His body was doing exactly what it's supposed to do. Like we had just had Halloween, then Thanksgiving, then Christmas, and we ate a bunch of shit and we weren't outside as much. And we were stressed out because of some things that were going on. And he felt it, too. And that's all that was happening. [Speaker 2] (25:57 - 26:58) Yeah, I mean, talk about that period. People call it what flu season, like the holidays. Again, family, there's like there's extra stress, there's drama. You know, what does that then do after you come out of it? You're like, oh, wow, you're no longer around family or you're no longer dealing in that environment. And so then the body's like, OK, time to heal. Now, again, healing crises, unfortunately, sometimes can lead to someone not continuing to live. You know, like it can be that intense. So we're not just sitting here saying, oh, it's a healing crisis. Like, no, healing crises sometimes are fatal. Hence why there are times where I'm not going to sit here and say, like, Western medicine is all bad. Everything is... What are you talking about? There are benefits in acute emergency care. It's amazing. But for the other stuff, they're just not trained. Like that's not the education they go through to support a person in that regard. It's like, oh, you have symptoms? We can remove them. We can get rid of them. Oh, you have something in your body that's dysfunctional? We can cut it out or burn it out, et cetera. [Speaker 1] (26:58 - 28:54) Yeah. And to think about this and to put this in a way that makes it clear for everyone, when you get sick, your body is heating up, right? Your body's heating up to make the structured water that lines your body less viscous so it can flow more easily, which is why you have diarrhea. You throw up, your skin gets rashes, you sneeze, you cough. It's because your body is heating up to make the structured water less viscous so it can flow more easily to push out those toxins, right? And what Western medicine and a lot of so-called alternative or holistic or natural approaches to health, I've got a bone to pick with functional medicine as an example. What they'll do is just treat the symptoms, just mask the symptoms. We can get rid of that symptoms like you're saying. And what that's doing in most cases, not all cases, but most cases, what it's doing is it's inhibiting that process, thus pushing the toxins, whether emotional or actual physical toxins, deeper into the body, deeper into the tissue, which leads to chronic issues down the line, which is why now more than ever, chronic issues are so prevalent. I think the statistics are 54% of kids nowadays have a chronic disease. That's unheard of relative to 20, 30, 40 years ago, or maybe even 10 years ago. And it's because we're so obsessed with masking the symptoms. And the deeper thing here is we're so avoidant of experiencing temporary pain, even if it's really challenging. We want to put that off. We want to stuff that down. We don't want to face it, whether it's mental, physical or spiritual, because we want to be comfortable. And because we're obsessed with comfort at the expense of temporary pain, we're perpetuating our own suffering. [Speaker 2] (28:55 - 29:48) Exactly. So to me, it's just biological shadow work, right? It is. Can we allow ourselves to experience the reality? Can we allow nature to do its thing? Or do we need to bypass what's actually going on? And when you avoid shadow work, you get psychic syndromes, right? When you avoid the healing phase or the healing crisis to really take its place, you get chronic syndromes. Yep. I like it. All right. Episode's over, everyone. Peace. But this is the thing. This is the thing that we're dealing with, is that the masses are adverse to pain. They want to live in a one-seasoned world. They want to be bubble wrapped. They want to avoid self-responsibility. They want to outsource that by any means necessary. And it's become very easy to do so. But do you blame the architects of control for that? Do you blame society for that? [Speaker 1] (29:49 - 29:50) This is a good question. [Speaker 2] (29:51 - 29:54) Or how much are we responsible for them creating? [Speaker 1] (29:54 - 30:58) We are 100% responsible. Greg Paul, I interviewed him. He's a guy from Law for Mankind. He said it best. And he said, I'm not going to say there isn't a wild gang of nefarious actors out there who are wholly set on preying upon our decisions. But it is our decisions or lack of decisions that brings all this about. And that's why I'm... This relates, but it's kind of a tangent we could go off on talking about authority. But this is why I'm so big on voluntarism and Larkin Rose's work and Jack Lloyd's work and other voluntarists slash anarchist people. Because it's understanding that we are fully responsible. And the only reason they continue to... They, whoever they are, continue to have power over us in any capacity is because we allow it. It's because we individually, and more importantly, collectively say, I believe you have power over me. That's it. [Speaker 2] (30:59 - 31:12) Yeah. And they lord fear over you that if you don't align, then what's going to happen? Oh, you'll go to prison. Oh, you'll lose your job, whatever the case may be. And so, yeah, I hear you, man. I mean, there can't be any masters unless you make yourself a slave on some level. [Speaker 1] (31:13 - 31:20) That's right. Have you guys seen Larkin Rose's short film? It's called The Jones Plantation. [Speaker 2] (31:20 - 31:25) No, I haven't. I caught some of his speech at Music in the Sky, not all of it. [Speaker 1] (31:25 - 31:49) That's one of the best ones. I'm going to send that to you to put in the show notes too, because I referenced it. It's like one of the best ways to break down the illusion of voting and how all this works. And we're just, we are causing ourselves to be slaves. But it's slavery under the guise, especially in the US. And I'd imagine to some degree in Australia. Even though you don't live in Australia anymore, do you? [Speaker 2] (31:49 - 31:50) I'm here for two more weeks. [Speaker 1] (31:50 - 31:52) Two more weeks. Are you excited to get out? [Speaker 2] (31:52 - 31:53) Oh, I'm pumped, bro. I'm super pumped. [Speaker 1] (31:53 - 31:55) Am I allowed to say that? Are they like... [Speaker 2] (31:55 - 32:02) No, no, I've told my audience, bro, that they know what's going on. Yeah, it's been chaotic, but excited, bro. [Speaker 1] (32:03 - 32:06) That's awesome, man. I'm pumped to actually be able to see you in person, finally. [Speaker 2] (32:06 - 32:08) Me too. We've never met before. [Speaker 1] (32:08 - 32:10) That's so crazy. That's so crazy. [Speaker 2] (32:10 - 32:20) It's happening. It's happening in April. And actually, this is a perfect time to say that our first time together will be interviewed together on your podcast in April. You guys will be together when I interview you? [Speaker 1] (32:20 - 32:21) Yeah, I'm visiting Mexico. [Speaker 2] (32:22 - 32:22) I'm visiting Mexico. [Speaker 1] (32:23 - 32:27) That's going to be awesome. In April, damn, maybe I need to just come down. We can do it all in person. [Speaker 2] (32:27 - 32:39) Let's do it in person, man. Let's get a film crew, get a studio, whatever. What's the date? It's April, I think, 23rd to the 27th. I'll be in Mazatlan, and then I'm coming back. [Speaker 1] (32:39 - 32:46) Okay. Let me talk to Kyle. I got to run that by the way. You know how that goes. I don't remember what we were just talking about. [Speaker 2] (32:46 - 32:50) But authority, illusion of authority. You were going to say. [Speaker 1] (32:51 - 33:01) I think your audience already probably gets this by now. We did. We tend to attract a lot of the same people. So I feel like they already understand the illusion of authority by now. But yeah, yeah. [Speaker 2] (33:01 - 33:17) Check out Larkin Rose's work. So real quickly, just because it came up before, but I might as well talk about it. So the three of us are wearing hats. So that means no one should listen to us because we are a couple of... We're three kids, you know? Can I read that email that I got? Yeah, please. [Speaker 1] (33:17 - 34:11) Let me read that email. Hold on. Okay. I got this email in December after a podcast episode I did. Dear Alex. First of all, she called me Alex. Um, I appreciate the good work you're trying to do. I would suggest that you take off the baseball cap during videos. There is a reason men are not supposed to wear hats when they're talking to someone or inside of a building of any kind. It is a long-standing form of respect and manly behavior that stems from the natural inclination of humans not to trust someone when you can't see their eyes. Or conversely, when they selectively and purposefully prevent one from seeing their eyes. There are reasons for etiquette of which young people today seem to be ignorant. I hope this information helps you in your quest to make the world a better place. The first rule is to follow the rules. Don't wear a baseball cap unless you're playing baseball. The rules. [Speaker 2] (34:12 - 34:34) Yeah, you know, it's funny. Growing up, my mom wouldn't allow us to wear a baseball cap at the table while we ate dinner. You know, I mean, that's changed. Obviously, now when I wear one, it doesn't say anything. But that was interesting. I also, like, that's her business. Like, mind your business on some level. Like, I understand you're offering your opinion. But like, you can do whatever you want. [Speaker 1] (34:34 - 34:35) I don't mind people. [Speaker 2] (34:36 - 34:55) Sorry to interrupt. No, no. I was just going to say, like, I think people are allowed to have their opinions and they can share their opinions. And at the same time, I could also be like, cool, like, fuck off. I'm not going to wear a hat. Or I'm going to wear a hat, you know? All she's doing is projecting the fear, her fear that other people might not take you seriously. [Speaker 1] (34:56 - 34:56) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (34:57 - 35:04) Because she's saying she likes what you're saying. But I'm worried that other people like me who grew up in circumstances like me might not take you seriously because you're wearing a baseball cap. [Speaker 1] (35:05 - 35:07) Which is something for her to deal with. That's right. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (35:08 - 35:08) That's right. [Speaker 1] (35:09 - 35:26) Yeah. And it's, again, just like you said, Yerasmus, I don't mind people offering their perspective. I think everyone should offer their authentic perspective. 100%. It's the way that she said the first rule is to follow the rules. [Speaker 2] (35:27 - 35:31) Who makes the rules? Where's the rule book around wearing pants? [Speaker 1] (35:32 - 36:01) Yeah. Yeah. Whose rules? And if we're referring back to society's rules, I don't care what society's rules are. Am I causing anyone pain? Am I inflicting harm upon people? Am I preaching a message that is going to cause other people or coerce other people or manipulate other people to inflict harm or do the same on others? No, I'm not. I'm doing the exact opposite. So when it comes to society's rules... [Speaker 2] (36:01 - 36:04) Emotional pain. Yeah, emotional pain. You've inflicted emotional pain by wearing a hat. [Speaker 1] (36:05 - 36:08) Yeah, maybe I have. So I should probably take it off. [Speaker 2] (36:08 - 36:12) Having you read the 11th commandment, Thou shalt not wear a baseball cap. [Speaker 1] (36:14 - 37:28) Thou shalt not. No, it's just like... What she's implying is that I'm not following society's rules. No, she's directly stating that. But the implications there are that society's rules are to be followed. That's what we're supposed to be doing. And society is morally bankrupt. Society is diseased, depressed, anxious, in a state of perpetual fight or flight, just droning about, not living a full or complete life. I don't care what society's rules are. And does that mean that I'm just going to throw away every single thing that is offered by society? No, again, that's black or white thinking. There are some elements of society that I'd like to keep. Example, emergency and acute care that we have in the United States, like you brought up earlier, Rasmus. But society's rules, that's precisely what myself and you two are trying to do in our work is show other people or show people who resonate with what we're saying a better way or what we believe to be a better way to conduct ourselves individually and collectively. I don't care what society's rules are. [Speaker 2] (37:29 - 37:56) Yeah, and the better way is to deeply find out who you are as an individual and who you're born to be and live that life. That's it, you know, on some level, you know, because again, the part of that is, wait, normally, when I see people talking about important things, they're either wearing a suit or a white coat. So this doesn't compute. You're wearing a black T-shirt and a backwards hat, but you're talking about these things that are very technical. And so people that are into very technical things, they're not going to listen to you and pay attention to you because you're not wearing the uniform. [Speaker 1] (37:57 - 40:10) And what I almost love about that is like the effect that it has, that I am just a dude wearing a baseball cap. I'll give another example. This one, I could understand a little bit better. A well-known influencer, if you will, one of the people on the disinformation dozen saw this video of me speaking at the Kansas State Capitol in October of 2021. And I was wearing a T-shirt. And actually, I was wearing the same exact hat, except for I was wearing it forward this time. And I was in a room amongst a bunch of people wearing suits, obviously being in a government building and everyone else that was speaking was there dressed to impress. And by far, I'll toot my own horn here and it's fine to you. By far, what I said was the most impactful, 100%. I just threw statistic after statistic after statistic and had a very compelling case against all of the things that the state of Kansas was considering doing and everything that had happened over the last year and a half at that point, all in a matter of two and a half minutes, because that's all I had. That's all the time I had to speak. And I got a message from this person saying, Hey, I loved your talk. I won't share it though, because you're inside a government building and you weren't wearing a sport coat. And I just think it looks a little bit silly. I'm like, first off, I'm wearing what I authentically want to wear. Second, I'm coming out of being out of the U.S. Army. So I'm like, at that point in time, taking very like, not only internally, but externally anti-government stance, growing my hair out, growing my beard out, like wearing t-shirts inside government buildings. I don't want to wear anything nice because I had to all the time in the army, but it's also I'm being me. I am being authentically me. I'm doing what I authentically want to do, wearing what I authentically want to wear. And I'm not hurting anyone, just like I said before. And the effect that it has on people that's like, damn, who's this dude in a freaking hat and a t-shirt spitting off all this stuff? Let me learn more about this guy. And it had that effect because it was shared on social media and it went pretty viral. [Speaker 2] (40:11 - 40:39) Yeah. And at the end of the day, you can't control people's reactions. You know, you could be you, people are going to dig it. Some people aren't going to dig it. What are you going to do? Worry about everyone that doesn't dig it? Exactly. Drop names or what, bro? Yeah, I was just wondering. I wonder why people don't like the backwards hat, because this right here represents the Illuminati eye right here, bro. So we got to sit, man. Turn your shit around. Turn your shit around, bro. [Speaker 1] (40:40 - 40:41) We're three of us. [Speaker 2] (40:42 - 40:44) We got the one eye right here. [Speaker 1] (40:45 - 40:54) I was going to make a joke about that earlier when you said you're episode number 44. And I was like, I thought I was episode number 33. I told you guys that I wanted to be number 33. [Speaker 2] (40:54 - 41:00) Sorry. I forget who it was. I got to go back and look at it. Kimonami was 33. Makes a lot of sense. Oh, yeah, true, true. [Speaker 1] (41:00 - 42:55) Dude. So for when we had the Health Food and Free Mani podcast, we had RFK as our 33rd episode. And like all opinions on RFK, aside all opinions, like the point is like that was completely accidental. Like I'm not deliberately choosing. Oh, that's going to be that episode number. It just happened to be that we interviewed him. He was the 33, 33rd one. I had like this one account on social media who I actually used to be pretty close with. And we had a falling out because he got mad about something that was just absolutely nonsensical. So he went on this like tirade against me trying to find ways to identify me as controlled opposition. And that was one of his primary ways. And then he found this other picture of me speaking at an event in California on a stage. No, I wasn't covering my eye. I was covering my mouth. But dude, if you found any pictures of me playing basketball in high school, a lot of the times after I hit, not that, but like, Hey, I used to listen to Jay-Z. I used to throw up the rock. Yeah. I was going to screenshot that now and be like, I'll see. I fucking told you guys. But dude, every time I used to hit a three or a lot of the times after I'd hit a three, I'd go like this. I'd go like this or I'd have teammates do this. And it's like, dude, I saw someone the other day. And they, they took a picture of Andy Kaufman from like, I got it. I bet it's like 10 to 12 years ago before he was ever into anything in the realm of natural health, probably when he was still super pro allopathic medicine of him shaking the governor of New York's hand at the time at some event that he's probably, he's probably getting an award. And like, Andy was pulling away. You could tell that he was clearly pulling away from the handshake as the picture was taken. So his, his thumb was on top of the dude's hand and they were like, dude, I told you. [Speaker 2] (42:55 - 43:51) Yeah. That's like, that's amazing. Symbolically has a pre-mason bro. You know, man, there's pictures of, there's pictures of me wearing like a suit or a shirt with like my hand inside or something. So if someone's like snatched the photo at that time, again, it's so silly. And it's like, you're constantly talk about the, the, the lens that you were talking about that that's on a person's mind. It's like, they're seeing everything through that. So it's like, Oh no, that that's the reason why Novak Djokovic or that's the reason why Kyrie Irving is controlled or all of these people are RFK. It's like, what? Because they don't agree with you a hundred percent on everything you agree with. That means they're controlled up because RFK may agree with you on certain things. And, but they don't in, in, in regards to this one subject, then you throw everything they've ever done and everything they know and all the amazing things they've done for, for, for the, the movement, I say out the window. And just, it's just, I think it's silly. It is. [Speaker 1] (43:51 - 44:02) And it's like that while also holding the reality that yeah, there probably is, I would say definitively is there are people who are controlled opposition. There are people who are controlled opposition. [Speaker 2] (44:03 - 44:03) Who do you think? [Speaker 1] (44:03 - 44:08) Damn, you're putting me on the spot here, man. Oh, there you go. [Speaker 2] (44:09 - 44:09) I almost feel that. [Speaker 1] (44:09 - 44:21) The truth, or at least the exploration of it. How about, how about this? How about we frame it like this? Here's, here's, here's people that I am, I'm skeptical of. [Speaker 2] (44:22 - 44:22) Joel Rafiti. [Speaker 1] (44:23 - 45:20) Joel Rafiti numero uno. I have seen, so one person that I, I just personally got to say, I do not trust. And I, I'm gotta be clear here. I'm not calling anyone controlled opposition. That's for anyone else to decide. These are just people that I am very skeptical of that I tend to avoid. Dr. Robert Malone. I don't, I don't trust him. I don't trust him at all. For a number of reasons. I recorded a podcast episode, sort of explaining what happened to health and humanity. Robert Malone was a huge piece of that. He's suing the Braggans for 25 million over something that's complete nonsense. There's other situations where I've had people text me saying they've had really weird situations with them. So take that for what you will. There is another guy that I absolutely do not trust based on my own personal interaction with him. Jason Shirka. Don't trust him whatsoever. Oh, yeah. [Speaker 2] (45:20 - 45:21) Creeped out vibes. [Speaker 1] (45:21 - 46:06) Yeah. Just, I don't, I don't trust him. And that's the, again, there's a lot of personal things that happened. I used to be decent friends with them and there's some weird business dealings and I've connected with a bunch of other people that have had similar issues with him. Um, aside from that, I can't say, oh, I'll say one more that I'm personally skeptical of. And I'm open about this too. I, I'm very skeptical of Dell Big Tree. Don't, don't really know what I think on his intentions, but a lot of the things that he does and a lot of the things that he avoids discussing are really interesting to me. Um, yeah, aside from that, I'm unclear on who is like, you know, those are just people that I'm personally skeptical of on, on their intentions at the least. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (46:06 - 46:19) Yeah. And we're just having a conversation whether or not it's true or not. We're having a dialogue around it. And do you think there's also people that aren't controlled opposition, but because of their beliefs or because of their actions, they kind of get taken advantage of? [Speaker 1] (46:19 - 47:05) Well, here's the thing. There's a difference between controlled opposition and a disinfo agent. Controlled opposition is some, like I could be, you two could be. Controlled opposition is someone who may or may not know what they're doing, right? Every, every person that's a disinfo agent is controlled opposition, but not every person that's controlled opposition is a disinfo agent. A disinfo agent is someone who is fully aware of what they're doing. Controlled opposition. You may be doing what you think is best, but you're getting information from the wrong group of people or from the wrong source or whoever is, you know, in your organization that's at the top is feeding you wrong info. And that's what controlled opposition is. Or that's at least the way that I've come to understand. [Speaker 2] (47:05 - 47:10) So it could be overt control or more covert. They don't really know what's going on. Exactly. [Speaker 1] (47:10 - 48:09) Yeah, but dude, here's the position I've come to on all this stuff. And I say that with acknowledging some people I'm skeptical of. And then also the flip side of the spectrum. I have been there where I'm like, dude, I don't know if I want to speak at the event with that person because I've heard some things about him. Dude, I don't know if I want to have this person on my podcast because other people might think this about me, dude, I don't know. I've been there. I don't care anymore. Like I don't care. I don't even care about whether those people I just named, like what their intentions are, anything like that, because I've come to the position that I'm going to do me. Like I've even had someone say, so I'm speaking at the greater reset, not the great reset, the greater reset this upcoming week. And I'm speaking alongside Del Bigtree and not alongside him, but I'm speaking and then he's speaking after me. And I'm openly skeptical of Del Bigtree. Right. And I've had several people message me saying, I can't believe you're speaking at that event, bro. The fact that you're speaking on the same stage that Del Bigtree is going to speak on just shows where your alignment is. [Speaker 2] (48:09 - 48:11) It's like ridiculous. [Speaker 1] (48:11 - 48:58) What? Just nuts to me, man. Yeah, yeah. And then I've had people, and I'm sure you've seen this before, where I've spoken at a conference at the same time of some of these people, some that I've just named. And then they point to that as evidence that I'm controlled opposition. Little did they know, I'm the only one at that event who spoke on the exact thing that I think Del Bigtree avoids, which is the conversation on virology. And had I not spoken there, those people that came because they saw Del was speaking and were attracted because they're part of his audience would have never been exposed to a deep presentation on the fraud of virology. [Speaker 2] (48:59 - 49:17) Yeah, absolutely, man. Let me ask you this question, though. So hypothetically, let's use Dr. Robert Malone as an example. Do you think that his actions and the way that he spoke out during the period had any benefit to a wider audience awakening on some level? [Speaker 1] (49:17 - 50:07) Yeah, yes, of course. And this is the problem, though. The overall problem is the tendency of people to outsource critical thinking to anyone, period, right? Especially on a topic like this. When it comes to my car, I'm probably going to outsource my critical thinking on knowledge of cars to a mechanic in a body shop because I've personally never had a situation where that steered me wrong. And to some degree, I could see why people who still believe in vaccines and things like that think the way that they do, because in their mind, it's never steered them wrong. But when it comes to something like this, where there are people who have been harmed, like my family members, like, you know, I don't know what woke you guys up, but a lot of the same types of situations where you either... [Speaker 2] (50:07 - 50:19) I was born awake, bro. I've never had an awakened period. My three previous lives, I was awake. So I've been awake for three longer incarnations. You're sitting here with two ascendant masters. [Speaker 1] (50:20 - 50:25) I was just about to say, were you born with all the abilities that we get when we ascend to 5D? [Speaker 2] (50:25 - 50:28) Yeah, I'm 7D, bro. I'm 7D. [Speaker 1] (50:31 - 50:33) 7D, what do I look like? [Speaker 2] (50:34 - 50:35) I can't talk about it. I'll have to tell you. [Speaker 1] (50:36 - 50:49) How many of my guides are behind me? There's 33. I actually do think we have guides. This is a conversation. [Speaker 2] (50:49 - 51:03) Yeah, man. Again, there's things that we don't know, and I get it. I've had experiences with different people or practitioners that blow my mind that I can't rationally explain. 100%. Again, your personal experience to some degree. [Speaker 1] (51:04 - 52:55) 100%. Anyway, finish that train of thought. I love this episode. This is great. This is what I realized, relating it back to Rob Malone specifically, especially with what happened with Health Freedom for Humanity because of the article that he wrote about us, that our recurring donations tanked. Of course, any organization literally needs money to run. We're about to hire three new positions. Overnight, we cannot hire those positions, and we cannot, after projecting it out, pay our own employees, and we only had three employees. And then our podcast listens went from 140k a month to 60k a month, literally overnight. Of course, I was devastated by that. But what I was most devastated by, and this relates to your question, is the tendency of so-called free thinkers, truth seekers, to blindly outsource their critical thought, their ability to discern and seek truth to so-called leaders in the freedom movement. They've taken the same consciousness that they had before of blindly believing what the government says, of blindly believing what the medical establishment says. And they may have woken up for some reason. And then now they've taken that same consciousness and they do the same thing to leaders on this side. I have people that do it to me. People probably do it to you. And it's like, you guys are missing the freaking point. That's not the point of this. We're not telling you that I want you to blindly trust what I say or what your awesome Mr. Joel says. We want you to learn to seek truth for yourself. That's it. [Speaker 2] (52:55 - 53:25) I agree. I learned it the hard way. I was basing every life decision in 2020 and 2021 off of your tweets. But then I realized, okay, I got to take ownership of my life. No, I hear exactly what you're saying. You make a great point. I get the trust the experts line to some degree. But again, my car isn't attached to me. My body is my body. [Speaker 1] (53:26 - 53:27) There's something different. [Speaker 2] (53:28 - 53:40) There's something different around that. For me, that's how it lands where I'm just like, okay, I need to look into this stuff. What am I putting in my body? What am I putting in? What are other people around me? What if you were a transformer? [Speaker 1] (53:43 - 53:48) That's a tough one. Would you go to a mechanic or would you do your own maintenance? [Speaker 2] (53:48 - 53:56) I don't know. I don't know. That's, that's tough. Let me, let me, um, when I get to eight, when I get to eight D and I'm a transformer, then I'll, uh, I'll let you know how that goes. [Speaker 1] (54:01 - 54:50) But so final thought on that, like, yes, I think Robert Malone hasn't had an incredible impact at waking a large group of people up to some surface level elements. The problem is if they are outsourcing to what he says, they stop at, ah, that's right. COVID shots are sometimes bad. The other vaccines are all great because Robert Malone says so viruses. They're about to create a new bioweapon here soon. That is going to escape from a lab that is going to kill so many people according to what Robert Malone says. And Ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine are God's greatest gift to humanity. According to what Robert Malone says, we should probably just vote for new people. According, you know what I mean? It's like, if they, if, if they're using that mentality, they stop there. [Speaker 2] (54:50 - 56:16) Yeah. This is why it's really interesting. It's casting a net, which those people can actually go no further than because they never got there by using their own critical thought in the first place. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And I want to comment on this because it came up in your talk that you did for the doctors for COVID ethics, which was amazing. I loved it. The Q and A afterwards was very, you know, um, you know, entertaining and insightful. And also just like interesting just to see, you know, how, how information that is, that goes against the status quo or a person's status quo for being a doctor for 40 years can trigger a lot. But what I want to bring up is during that presentation, there were people that were like, well, why are you, why are you taking the argument here? Because so many people aren't going to make the jump from, from where the, you know, the last hundred years are to this. They need, they need, they should just focus on like the next step, you know, which is what people like maybe Robert Malone or other people are doing. And I, for me, and I want to hear you're taking this, I go, cool. Those other people want to do that. They could do that, but I'm not fucking doing that. Yeah. You know, I came across certain truth and knowledge that's important. And if I can, if I could get people to understand that symptoms are not to be feared, you know, that there may not be anything floating around the sky that's going to cause you to kill grandma, you know, then, then that's, that's important. So can you comment on that a little bit? [Speaker 1] (56:16 - 58:21) Yeah, I think, I think I gave an answer to the effect of the way they framed the question, just like you said, was that, why are you choosing to focus on this instead of just focusing on like stopping the vaccines? Right. And my answer was, because if I did that and let's say, let's just assume everyone else did that too. Like Calvin and Calvin were all like, you know what? People just aren't ready for this virus thing. Let's just focus on stopping the vaccines and then we'll get to that later. When is, when is get to that later? When does that happen? Like there are so many people who are awake to the Novak or to the, the need to, or the need to no longer vaccinate. Right. If there weren't people like me and Cowan and Kaufman and some other people that you guys have had on your show and you guys yourselves discussing these things, then those people would be stagnated too. We have to have these people that are talking about the deeper elements. I think I used the political example during that episode. I was like, you know, there's a lot of people who are talking about the leftist cult and I think absolutely that there is a leftist cult. I also personally think that there's a right leaning cult though. But I do think to a large degree right now, 20 years ago, I would have said differently, but right now the leftist cult is much more harmful to what's happening right now. But if I was one of those people that's like, dude, people just aren't ready to hear about the illusion of authority. People aren't ready to hear about X, Y, and Z things and just decided to make concessions in my own message and not be authentic to support what I believe the collective needs. That's playing into that freaking paradigm too. I'm not interested in trying to sway the so-called collective. I'm wanting to impact individuals that are ready to take the next step into deeper authenticity and for these deeper concepts. That's what I'm focused on. [Speaker 2] (58:21 - 58:27) I love it, man. And at the same time, we're all here to play different roles. There's people who might be playing in that ballpark, the next step. That's not what we're doing. [Speaker 1] (58:27 - 58:28) We need all of it, bro. [Speaker 2] (58:28 - 58:28) That's right. [Speaker 1] (58:28 - 58:47) We need all of it. Yeah, thank God for Robert Malone, despite my skepticism of him. Thank God, because I do think he had a positive impact of swaying the general surface level message a certain bit towards the side that says, hey, we should be really skeptical of these things, which I'm appreciative of. [Speaker 2] (58:47 - 59:19) It was also useful for people like us to be like, look, the creator of the mRNA vaccine is saying this, right? Like we leant on that a lot. Exactly. And again, there are people, you know, along the entire, I guess, continuum where it's like, hey, I could share this interview with Dr. Robert Malone to someone in my family who isn't going to even give the time of day, I'm just going to say, to a dude with a backwards cap talking at the fucking Kansas City government. Exactly. [Speaker 1] (59:19 - 59:20) You know what I mean? [Speaker 2] (59:20 - 59:46) And so it's like, there's different material. And this is where discernment comes in. We go, OK, I'm not going to send Alex presentation to the doctors for COVID ethics to that person maybe in like a year or two. I will. But right now I'm going to send this to that person. And so, again, there's different ways we can utilize information to support us to maybe trying to plant a seed to get someone to look at things in a different way. Yeah. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (59:47 - 59:48) Go ahead, Joel. Sorry. Go ahead. [Speaker 2] (59:49 - 59:56) I was going to say, and I guarantee there's people like who congregate in the dark web watching podcasts like ours going, these guys are motherfucking shields. [Speaker 1] (59:56 - 1:02:00) You know, absolutely. Which is hilarious to me. But yeah. Yeah. I used to get so affected by that because like, you know, like a big wound of mine growing up was feeling rejected by my own family. So like from the beginning of this stuff, for the most part, I was not really impacted even by formerly close friends saying, dude, you're fucking crazy. I was like, you know what? Like it was I was stepping into such a powerful feeling of authenticity that it didn't really affect me. Like it was sometimes it make me sad. I wasn't invited to one of my ushers in my wedding. Like one of I was invited to his wedding, whatever. But like for the most part, I was totally cool. When people call me a conspiracy theorist or any of those names, like I don't get upset. Right. There was a time, though, where I would get pretty upset, like really upset when people from inside the community that I was trying to help would would make posts about me. Right. And I remember there's this one and it's like so funny looking back on it because now I would just laugh and I do laugh when this type of stuff happens. Um, someone like ran my my just I think just my middle and last name through like a Gamatria calculator and it came out as six six or something like that. They're like, dude, he's I'm telling you, he's a he's a Mason. He's a free Mason. I was just like at the time I was like, dude, no, I'm not like I'm genuinely like my family really did experience this shit. Like I almost took it as as them trying to say that what my family went through, what my mom went through with the psych industry and what my wife went through with autoimmune conditions wasn't real and fabricated for you to be in the position that you're in. Yes, yes. And that really pissed me off. And now I look at it like, man, pray for those people. Like, my goodness, the lens through which they're seeing the world like being paranoid of literally everything around them is is not serving. [Speaker 2] (1:02:03 - 1:02:10) Now, what is what's the biggest things that's changed about you from 2020 to now? Damn, dude, that's a good question. [Speaker 1] (1:02:16 - 1:05:10) My home, my beard, my hairline's probably receded a little bit. I would say, let me think about this for a second, because I want to I really want to answer it, you know, in a way that's really coming from within me. I would say that my emotional maturity has gotten much more has become much more stable. Like, I think in 2020, a lot of things would impact me. And in some cases, just because I was also dealing with a lot of family stuff, take me out for sometimes one to two to three days where I would like not want to do anything and just have like a self-loathing, almost woe is me feeling and like the world's all fucked. And it was it was really between 21, 2021 and 2022. Like 2022 was the hardest year for me by far, but it was it was a phase of having to individuate more because I still had my identity attached to my mom. Like I used to open up every podcast episode discussing what happened to my mom instead of discussing what I went through when I was younger, like what I experienced and all those things. And my identity was wrapped up in my mom. And now my mom and I aren't speaking right now. And I used to even say that and feel some like emotional like, but right now I don't feel that at all. I literally don't. I'm like, OK with it because it is that is the reality of the situation. I've come to accept that. And I think it's becoming more emotionally mature and becoming more individuated and knowing that I am worthy, like that my story is worth sharing, that what Alex Zek wants is worth sharing, that I can do these things and create and generate things and help other people by my own accord without having to rely on any of these other people. And I think that's kind of like that situation with my mom alongside what happened with Health Room for Humanity where it was this group that and that's what I authentically wanted. And you know, that's that's a long story in and of itself. But it's the same underlying principle amongst both where I was like, identifying with a group because I didn't feel powerful to do it enough myself. I didn't feel powerful enough by myself to make an impact. And now I can say fully for the first time, really in the last few months, I do like I absolutely do. I know that I can make an impact and I know that I am a badass and I've been through a lot of shit, but I've transmuted that shit. I'm doing it so I can benefit those who are have an ear to hear what I have to say. [Speaker 2] (1:05:11 - 1:05:18) Yeah, man. Thanks. Thanks for keeping it real, bro. So like in hindsight now, would you say that like there's a gift to Robert Malone's article? [Speaker 1] (1:05:20 - 1:07:24) Yeah, fuck yeah, I would. Absolutely. You know, this is such an interesting thing because it really pissed me off at the time. Behind the scenes, so the guy from our organization, and there's no beef here whatsoever. The guy from our organization that wrote the newsletter that triggered Robert Malone's response, he behind the scenes when all this was happening, when Robert Malone wrote his response, we were like, dude, what the like, why the fuck did you do that? Like, we need to respond. Like, we're all freaking out. I did not handle it well at all, dude, not at all. But it pissed me off because he said, God called me to write that article. I have the gift of spiritual insight. You just don't see this clearly. And now I still don't think that at all. I think that's nonsense. But there's a small piece of this. It's like, man, did God, universe, nature, creator, whatever, did that call him to write this article? Like, looking back now, I am very happy that health, freedom for humanity is dissolved. I am. I'm happy that I'm no longer attached to that. Because even though I was the director of that organization, even though I'm the one who started the organization, I felt pressure to be a certain way, to say certain things, to only focus on specific things when it's like, damn, I want to talk about the illusion of authority. I want to talk about these other things. Like, I want to talk about terrain quite a bit. But we are, but we have other people in the organization who don't want to. So I feel pressure to not talk about that as much. I want to talk about consciousness and wrestle with these concepts, religion versus spirituality, new age versus the ancient way of being a bridge between the two. I want to talk about all these things, but I can't because I'm a part of this organization. I'm leading this organization. I have to do this. And I don't have to do that anymore. So yes, I do think it was almost a blessing in disguise. And maybe God really did call him to write that. I don't know. [Speaker 2] (1:07:24 - 1:07:27) Bro, balance. Balance comes about in mysterious ways, man. [Speaker 1] (1:07:28 - 1:07:28) Does. [Speaker 2] (1:07:29 - 1:07:30) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:07:31 - 1:07:31) Spooky. [Speaker 2] (1:07:32 - 1:07:56) I love, again, this is where it comes back to the individual and how they look back and they frame something because another person could have not taken that information or that event and turned it into gold, you know, and so they'd be sitting here in a parallel universe complaining on why that happened. Whereas you're able to go, whoa, this is life. We're human. Shit's going to happen. What do we do with it? [Speaker 1] (1:07:56 - 1:07:56) Yep. [Speaker 2] (1:07:57 - 1:09:32) You know, we've had we've had situations that happened with us in the podcast and some disagreements and this or that or the other that caused us to, you know, kind of stand in our truth and speak out. Um, and and that from that moment on, it kind of allowed us to kind of take more ownership. And I felt like we got stronger and we felt more empowered and like things took off from there. It's freeing and liberating, you know, but I don't know, man, like to me. Reality molds around us based on the inner things which we're avoiding, even though we know we know we we might not be completely conscious that we're avoiding them. Circumstances play out in our lives to force the issue. That's 100%. That's a fact in my experience. What I also think is a fact in my experience, and we just look at relationships, people come into your life to highlight things about yourself that you're not paying attention to that you're repressing. I mean, even in relationships, just talk about relationships, the whole idea of opposites attract like there's it's almost like these two magnets that come together because the other person very often is holding disowned qualities within within them that you're that you're disowning. And so in the beginning, it's like, oh, wow, you're dreamy eyed. And then for most people after the honeymoon phase like that shit's annoying. What the fuck? But you're really if you can just kind of integrate a homeopathic dose of the other person and some of those qualities within yourself, you're going to be more integrated. You're going to be more whole. And this is what shadow work is. And this is why relationship can be such a benefit to your personal growth, because you're able to see yourself through these projections. And I just think it's really beneficial. [Speaker 1] (1:09:33 - 1:10:45) I got it. I got to pat myself on the back again for this one. Dude, my wife and I met and started dating when we were 16. I was so emotionally unavailable. She was so codependent. I was, you know, I don't even want to say not a good dude anymore. I was I was doing what a 16 year old does that is emotionally unavailable. And I caused a lot of harm to her. And then she was very needy and codependent. And we played that out for a long time. And now we've healed that together. And it's so cool when two people can own their shit, but also give each other space to feel their feelings associated with that piece of them that they're missing, that they were attracting more of that and the other person. And it happened to both of us when when two people can heal that together. Wow, it is powerful. And that is what my wife and I have done. We're still continuing. I mean, we're still continuing to deal with some piece of that everyone does in relationship, but it's like it's pretty rare that that happens that two people are attracted on what I would say are misaligned or feelings of lack that that are then brought about by attracting that other person and then they can heal together. And that's that's what my wife and I have done. [Speaker 2] (1:10:45 - 1:11:21) The relationship is such can be such a teacher, can be such a healer, can be such a guide if we utilize it as that. I'm not saying like I've had times in my life where I was not in a relationship and I went off and I backpacked and I traveled and I read books and I learned a lot. But when you're when you're living with someone, when you're in a committed relationship with someone, you have to face some shit. You get to get real when there's conflict, when there are triggers that happen, as opposed to like, oh, I'm by myself. I'm doing my thing. I'm backpacking around the world. I'm reading a book. Life's great. You know, there's just there's different things that come up. [Speaker 1] (1:11:23 - 1:11:23) Yep. [Speaker 2] (1:11:26 - 1:11:32) Absolutely no pressure to answer this one, man. But I'm just curious why why aren't you and your mom talking? [Speaker 1] (1:11:34 - 1:18:06) Yeah, no, I'm happy to answer this. So my so in 2021 until between 2017 and April of 2021, I did not speak to my dad. Not at all. Like not even a little bit. A lot of familial trauma happened. My my dad was having an affair with with someone. And this had happened before in my life when I was growing up prior to my dad going to rehab when I was younger. And, you know, that experience, I essentially set a boundary and I was like, Dad, I'm not going to speak with you until you at the least acknowledge all the things that you did when I was younger and make amends for them and exhibit that you have changed behavior. Because at this point, he had not even acknowledged some of the things that he had done when I was younger, which there's some pretty traumatic shit there. And fast forward, April of 2021. And it's just so crazy, again, how the universe of God orients itself for you when you just let things happen. I'd already ignored a few of my dad's phone calls up to this point because he had tried calling me and I was like, nope, nope, nope, not talking to you. And then. I get a phone call from my dad, decide to pick it up. And he's bawling his eyes out and he apologizes for everything that he had done, not only in the past few years, but when I was younger. And of course, that brought on a flood of emotions in me. I started bawling my eyes out and I accepted his apology. And from there, we began to reestablish a relationship. What was cool about this is I was always very fearful of my dad when I was younger, very fearful of his authority over me. And this sort of healed that element right when this article by the Guardian came out outing me that I was the director of health and humanity while being a captain, an active duty captain in the US Army. And literally the day after I got this phone call from my dad, I get a text message from my brigade commander, which is essentially like my boss's boss saying, dude, WTF, why am I getting a call from the Army Public Affairs Office that you're running an anti-vaccine conspiracy theory organization? And I'd already been like super afraid, you know, because I was in the process of getting out of the Army to begin with. And I was just like, only a few more months, only a few more months. And at this point now, only a few more weeks. And I was so afraid of authority again in my life. And then healing an element of that when my dad texted me was like, I was able to handle this situation with the Army much better than I would have if that hadn't happened. So it was just crazy how that happened. And I got out of the Army and everything was fine. Anyway, so my dad and I began reestablishing a relationship at that point. At the same time, my mom and my dad began reestablishing a friendship, just a friendship. They're fully divorced at this point. And like, you know, she was like, I don't want a relationship with them. I just want to be friends with them. And after I got out of the Army, we moved in with my mom temporarily. So over time, there was some dynamics between my mom and I that rose to the surface that forced me to look at some things that happened in my childhood in a different way. Because I had always sort of thought my dad was this evil, narcissistic, worthless POS, and that my mom was the saint. And I sort of saw some things from a different lens. And so did my wife. And that's not saying my mom is bad. I want to be clear here. It's just I look back on my childhood and I was like, whoa, there's some dynamics between my mom and my dad that were unhealthy that my mom was also feeding. And I saw them in a different way. And again, there's some specific instances that I looked at them from a different way. And I was like, oh, my goodness, right? And on the flip side of that, that's not to minimize or negate any of the things that my dad did, because he also did some very messed up stuff. But as that's happening, and as I start establishing a relationship with my dad again, my mom is as well. She even spoke on stage at the Health Food and Free Manny Symposium with my dad. And the audience pointed to my dad and said, hey, we're showing the world that divorce can be done a different way. He's not my husband, but he is my life partner. We're friends, blah, blah, blah, blah, saying all these things. We're establishing a family relationship. We even had family pictures taken. And my dad was in the pictures with all of us, right? And then a week after that, also context, my mom is in the middle of healing from her breast explant surgery. So it's triggering a lot of stuff in her because as you know, she had struggled with a lot psych issues and the whole psych industry and coming off of benzos and benzodiazepines and SSRIs. So this triggered some stuff in her as well. But I think because of that, she just decided out of nowhere to cut my dad off again. And we were living with my mom. And I'm like, this is the first time in my life I have a good relationship with my dad. He's showing up. He's changing his behavior. He's made amends. I'm not going to cut him off. Like, no way. I'm not cutting my dad off. And I think that with the dynamics between my mom and I sort of coming out, having to relook at some of the things from my childhood, her feeling betrayed by me because I had a relationship with my dad sort of created this situation where my wife and I at the drop of a hat decided, hey, we're no longer living here anymore. We were originally going to build a house on her property. We decided we're not doing that anymore. We moved out. We got a townhouse temporarily. And now we live in Texas. And it just got to a point where it was just not healthy. And we needed to give each other space. And she was actually the one who said that she needs to distance herself from us. There's a lot more to this. But essentially, we're just giving each other space for now. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:18:06 - 1:18:21) No, I appreciate you sharing, man. Again, what comes to mind is just so wild how there's no way that you could bypass the individuation process. You're going to build a house on your mom's property. But again, a circumstance has occurred where it forced you to be on your own and feel that. [Speaker 1] (1:18:23 - 1:18:37) Yep. Yeah. And to be honest, too, I sort of... She was offering to build the house and have us pay her back and things like that. And it never came to fruition. Thank goodness. [Speaker 3] (1:18:37 - 1:18:37) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:18:37 - 1:19:06) And I was sort of looking like, you know what? Well, my parents never had to pay for me to go to college because I went to West Point on my own. They've never paid for crap for me. This is a way for them to sort of repay me for all the stuff that I went through when I was younger. So I'm just going to go ahead and take it. And I'm so happy that didn't happen because it's forced me to individuate so much more. And that's why I kind of brought that up. I'm glad you picked that up because I'm like, this was the universe orienting itself so that I had to individuate even more. [Speaker 2] (1:19:06 - 1:20:20) Yeah, I hear you, bro. I resonate deeply, man. In 2020, I was working with a family business. I've always worked within my family's business. My dad's always had businesses and my brother and I have both worked under them. And there was a point in 2020 where I was like, I need a pay rise. I need to start earning more money. And my brother, he was like, no way Joel's getting a pay rise. He launched a thing against it. I was like, what the hell is going on? I needed to move on and to start thinking about buying a house, feeding my family more, etc, etc, etc. At the time, I hated him. I couldn't understand why he was blocking me to such a degree. But me moving on, me discovering my own work, my own fields, my own relationships, me building what we built is all a result of that decision because it caused a huge rift and a massive conflict to take place. Well, I had to walk away. I had to be like, nah, fuck you all. I'll go figure this out on my own. So again, man, it's nuts how when you're walking an authentic path, when you're not subduing the pain, when you're not bypassing, things occur that actually force you to get real and force you onto that path of your highest potential, man. It's just about the way we choose to see it. [Speaker 1] (1:20:21 - 1:20:49) Yep. Yeah. And there is even a period of time where I was like, if you had interviewed me, let's say eight months ago, I would have shared a very surface level version of that because I still had this idea that this story with me and my mom, so many people have reached out and was like, oh, it's so amazing. Your family's healing story together. And I didn't want to impact that or people's perceptions of me. [Speaker 2] (1:20:49 - 1:20:50) Not the projections, right? [Speaker 1] (1:20:50 - 1:20:58) Yeah, exactly. And I've just come to the position now, no, this is the truth, man. This is what happened. This is what's gone on. [Speaker 2] (1:20:58 - 1:21:54) And yeah, I'm here to share it. And the thing is, it cuts the projection field because so many people will project on to you. Oh, my God, that's like you said, it's so amazing. Your family is perfect. And you're like, we're dealing with shit. Yeah, like people can sit here and go, oh, wow. Jolie Rosmoes, they got a podcast. They're doing the thing and they've got their coaching program. And it's great. We're doing cool shit. And we're fucking we're human. You know, I'm in a relationship. My relationship isn't roses and butterflies 24 seven. You know, I got things in my family. And so, like, I think it's important to be here for the truth, you know, for real and be real. So then people go, oh, wow, he's human, too. I don't have to sit there and go, well, they're doing all this shit and I'm not doing anything. And I'm this horrible person. And you're like, fuck, we're all just trying to we're just trying to figure it out, dude. And it makes you more real. Yeah, and you don't have to build a facade. You don't have to build a facade around trying to protect this thing that you don't want to come to the surface. And that's that's the whole point of here for the truth. That's literally why this is. [Speaker 1] (1:21:54 - 1:23:44) That's why I fucking love you guys. This is the most like down to earth. And I see you guys create that environment so well that I know I can be fully down to earth with you guys. Like, I can just just just riff on whatever. And you kind of said that before you started. I was like, what are we going to talk about? And you're like, I don't know, we're just going to riff. I'm like, hell, yeah, that's good. And this is kind of gone everywhere, but it's real. And I don't know if you guys remember, like six months ago, I shared a post that essentially was like, hey, I'm not doing great right now. I have a lot of stuff going on. Like, it's been hard for me the last year. I was so resistant to sharing that because of because of that perception that I had wanted to keep up with, you know, and doing that was so freeing for me. But what was so cool about it even more than how it was freeing for me is the response from other people because it invited them to step in and be like, dude, yeah, this year has been really fucking tough for me or no, I dealt with that in 2020 or 2018 or whatever. Like it people for various reasons tend to put people like us on a pedestal. And what we're doing in that situation is actually creating, putting us showing that we're human, but also showing that we are approachable and showing and inviting other people to to just become more authentic themselves too. So it's actually more healing to stop putting on this facade. So for any other so-called influencers or people who have a platform that listen to this, it's like, just be fucking real, man. People appreciate that more. Be real. Even if it's hard, even if you fucked up and did something that you're not proud of, be real. Right. And people will appreciate you even more just by being real. [Speaker 2] (1:23:44 - 1:23:50) Right. Authenticity is like the ultimate marketing strategy, man. You know, we've never paid for an ad in our life for anything. [Speaker 1] (1:23:51 - 1:23:51) Same. [Speaker 2] (1:23:52 - 1:24:25) Like, just be fucking real and people will see you, the people will find you. You know, that's what they appreciate. And, you know, what you mentioned about when you had to make that post is like the scarcity program forces us to believe that our value is in how others perceive us. So we try to protect that at all costs. Right. But once you're willing to continually cut down those projections, the true inner riches, man, the true value that exists can come forth in a way like never before. Without having to maintain any kind of illusions to have that worth. [Speaker 1] (1:24:26 - 1:25:10) You know, something that I'm struggling with lately is like, after coming off having done what I would perceive as something big with Healthroom for Many, like we had chapters, we're impacting people all over the world. It was dope. It was dope. It was great. And I've been like wrestling with... Because I've had people approach me like, are you going to do something similar for the way forward? I'm like, maybe, but I don't know what it looks like. And I'm wrestling with how that looks. And maybe we end up doing something. But the thing that I'm wrestling with is this idea that in order to have a positive impact on people, you got to do it the biggest. You got to reach everyone. You got to reach all these people. And it's like, no. [Speaker 2] (1:25:11 - 1:25:32) No, dude. And honestly, you saying that is the mistake that our food industry got into where it's we have to feed everybody. And it's like, no, we don't. You know, like you choose what you want, your community. And then that ultimately ripples out to something. How the hell can anyone cater to everybody? No, you can't. [Speaker 3] (1:25:32 - 1:25:37) Like, this is the problem with socialism 101, is that we think that's possible. [Speaker 2] (1:25:38 - 1:26:06) We think that we can somehow be fit into cookie cutter molds where one thing can service everybody without bypassing the fact that everyone's an individual. Everyone is unique beyond anything else. And who's going to decide that, Alec? Are you going to make a decision on how everyone gets served? You know what I mean? So it's like the person that's usually in charge of an organization of a country. They get to determine what's right for the quote unquote greater good. [Speaker 1] (1:26:07 - 1:26:33) Exactly. And that's the ironic thing is like Joe Yee said this to me before on an Instagram live with him, he was like, dude, if there's anyone that I would want to be president of this new paradigm that we're creating, it's you. And I'm like, no, I don't want that. I don't want to fucking be in charge of literally anyone else. Like, I don't want to have authority over anyone. So it's like exactly as you're saying, Joel, trying to fit people in this cookie cutter mold that you can just replicate everywhere. That's not possible. [Speaker 2] (1:26:33 - 1:26:34) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:26:34 - 1:26:53) Like, it's just not possible. And it's not a cause that I believe is worth investing time and energy into. Again, I am now realizing I'm trying to impact individuals that resonate with what I'm saying. That's it. [Speaker 2] (1:26:54 - 1:26:58) Yeah. I mean, I'll be president. You could be my VP. Joel, you could be Secretary of State. [Speaker 1] (1:27:02 - 1:27:04) Oh, then we can funnel money through Ukraine. [Speaker 2] (1:27:04 - 1:27:19) Yeah. Amazing. I can't wait. You know, dude, what a great conversation. Yeah, this is awesome. I love it. I mean, I know we can probably keep going on and on and on. Yeah, there's something else I want to ask, but I don't know how much time you have or if it's going to be too far. I'm good. [Speaker 1] (1:27:20 - 1:27:20) Yeah, cool. [Speaker 2] (1:27:21 - 1:27:31) I'll ask the question. I've noticed watching your growth the last two or three years that your perception of religion has changed. [Speaker 1] (1:27:31 - 1:27:32) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:27:32 - 1:27:45) I found earlier on you were much more in the Jesus saves camp only kind of thing, but I could be wrong. And it's kind of evolved since then to the point where now you're kind of getting to question that the dogmatic aspects of that as well. Can you speak on that at all? [Speaker 1] (1:27:46 - 1:31:54) Yeah, you have it backwards, I think. Well, not backwards. Since speaking, I've never been like a religious person. I'll just share this. So I grew up in a household that was, you know, that went to church for like Easter and Christmas until my dad went to rehab when I was 13. My dad got back from rehab. The rehab place he went to was called Clay Crossing in Oklahoma. It's this Christian rehab place. So then we became like very outsourced to Jesus evangelical Christians who like everything we did was going to church, going to church. And any problems that happened in our family, we would just give it to God, which means we would avoid discussing it at all costs. And then we would just like pray about it. Right. So that was my life until around age 21 or 22, my sophomore year at West Point around age 21, where I decided that like, I didn't believe any of it. And it really happened because of a shroom trip. I did. I took some shrooms and I was like, well, all is one. So then I like started down this path of sort of throwing all of Christianity aside, like it's all bad. It's all wrong to now diving into what I would call like some new age type shit. Right. And what I'm what I've come to now, and this has really been in the past year and a half is that there is something about Christ in the way that he was, if it is a true story. And he may not have even existed. I don't know. I've seen a pretty compelling presentation. And of course, I watch Zeitgeist, which is not a compelling presentation. But the point is like, he may not have existed. I don't know. But the story that we're told about that figure that was Christ, and maybe it's just something for me personally, the power of the name Christ, Jesus Christ. Mm hmm. There's something about it that holds such a. Reverence. Yeah, reverence, but even more than that, like just a deep stillness inside of me when I really think and like meditate on Christ. Yeah. Right. And it's like I'm marrying two different ways of being it. My wife and I have started going to church again over the last two and a half to three months, and we always say this. I feel like when we listen to the sermon from the pastor, we understand what he's saying at such a deep level, deeper than he even realizes what he's saying, because he's saying it from the lens of the dogmatic Christianity, the Bible is everything approach, whereas we're seeing it from the lens of all of us, even those who are not Christians are the body of Christ. All of us, and I know Joel, there might be some pushback for you on this. All of us are one, like all of us, all of humanity, all of creation, all of nature is a part of the body of Christ. And when we can get back to the understanding as the way I see it, that we are all one. And that all of us were created by this loving creator, whether that creator is separate of us or a part of us, I'm still wrestling with, and I tend to think that it's both in a weird way. But when we get back to that understanding and we see other not as other, but as fundamentally a part of us, then we behave in such a way that we have love for that person. We have love for those things that we previously perceived as other. And I'm like merging these two things together. And I don't know where I stand, and it's always evolving. But yeah, there's something about Christ that is so powerful to me lately. [Speaker 2] (1:31:56 - 1:33:51) Now, fair enough, man, like from my perspective, I think Christ is an archetype that exists within us. I think it's a beautiful masculine energy of purity that provides us with archetypal feelings and ideas that we can all call upon and step into. Should we choose? And I don't negate that. I think that's a beautiful thing. I'll leave it at that. I think this is a longer discussion for another day if I was to get into it. But yeah, I don't know if you have any comments here, Osmos. No, I don't. I mean, I appreciate what you shared. I mean, we've talked about this in other episodes. I grew up religiously. I was an altar boy for years and won religious speaking competitions when I was a kid. Things have changed over a few decades, but I think what Joel said makes sense. The Christ archetype is powerful. It's extremely powerful. Now, whether or not the story of Christ is real, there's different scholars that have different opinions. We did an episode on the biblical stories in Jesus from a completely alternative historical research perspective with Ralph Ellis that was definitely deep and would probably be extremely triggering to many. But again, we're here for the truth. And what does that mean? We don't have the truth, but we're here for it. And we're down to get into these dialogues and these conversations and to hold space for people to share things that maybe we don't either know about or maybe we don't fully agree with or maybe we do agree with. But it's just like, why can't we just have these dialogues and these conversations? And especially when it comes to, I mean, I don't know many things that are more triggering than, you know, religion and whether or not, you know, I mean, you've had this experience Joel, just when you make a post about Christianity, I mean, people come out of the woodwork and it's just like unfollowing. I'm just saying, no, I'm here to tell you I'm unfollowing you, which is a whole nother conversation to get into the people, the narcissism of people who have to announce themselves on their, on your post that they're unfollowing you. [Speaker 1] (1:33:52 - 1:34:22) Dude, I said similar experience Joel, like four months ago, I said, Christians think their way is the way Muslims think their way is the way Jews think their way is the way. And I would imagine if we do indeed have a creator that is separate of us and is all knowing and all understanding and all loving that he would look down upon all of us with reverence for all of the different ways we connect with him. And can you guess which group of people out of all those three groups I named went off on me and unfollowed me in mass? The Christians. [Speaker 2] (1:34:23 - 1:34:57) 100%. Yeah. Bro, like out of all the things that I've said throughout, you know, my time speaking publicly on social media, I've never received more like really deep, heinous attacks from any other group than I have from Christians when their paradigms questioned. Like just the level of pettiness that comes about, you know, to me, it's a deep psychological confession as to where they actually stand with their spirituality. [Speaker 1] (1:34:58 - 1:36:22) Yep. I have this one friend that I appreciate so much that is a hardcore Orthodox Christian that after seeing that post said, hey, man, I want to have some really like I want to have some conversations with you. And we've had multiple like hour and a half, two hour long discussions on this topic. And what he said. Is is similar to something you're asking us, you may have said this to me, I don't remember who said it, but someone said this to me is like, if you're if you're really a Christian, then like, shouldn't you be trying to save me right now? Meaning that like, if you see me going the wrong way, you're like, hey, I want to talk to you because I love you. And I want you know what I mean? And what I see a lot of Christians doing when I'm saying things that aren't even directly calling the Bible wrong or anything like that, but just kind of alluding to like, hey, maybe the creator thinks all of these ways are awesome, is is condemning me and then just casting me aside and then no longer speaking with me. I'm like, is that what Jesus did? Jesus do that. And that's why I really appreciate this friend who has really deep conversations with me. And he makes some compelling points. And he told me that I've made some compelling points. And it's like, wow, the ability to set aside your preconceived notions and biases and just like have a discussion is rare these days. [Speaker 2] (1:36:22 - 1:37:55) And that right there is the way forward. But it's true, man. I mean, to be able to have dialogues with people that maybe don't, again, don't agree with you and everything and to hold space for it and to feel again, we talk about being able to feel pain and discomfort and what that does to your evolution in a conversation when someone's saying something where that part of you wants to come in and be like, you're fucking full of shit. This is wrong. You're evil. You're going to hell. Whatever it is to sit to be able to hold space within yourself for that discomfort and still receive information. And then maybe in that moment, you go, listen, this is a lot for me right now. And, you know, I'm going to have to take some time away and just kind of think about it. And then maybe we can continue this conversation. That's a level of maturity that most people in this world don't have. And I'm not sitting here saying that I have that all the time. I think there's times I do. And there's other times where I kind of get dismissive or I just deflect something. That's bullshit, whatever. But, you know, this is this is how we move forward, you know, and I've shared this before, but I had an experience with a friend of mine who we had completely different views in 2020. And we kind of lost touch for a year, year and a half. And we came back together and there was a reconciliation. And it's like we're sitting there looking at each other like tears in our eyes and not even really speaking, but just knowing like, hey, you're we're homies, even though we may not agree with every single thing on on health or whatever. I understand you. I know your heart. I know your spirit. And then vice versa. And that's beautiful. [Speaker 1] (1:37:56 - 1:38:04) That's that's being human. I love that. I think the way forward is to be here for truth. [Speaker 2] (1:38:07 - 1:38:10) I think we could end it right there. [Speaker 1] (1:38:11 - 1:38:11) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:38:13 - 1:38:30) Thank you so much for coming on. We had a conversation, I know, a year, year and a half ago, whatever it was. And I'm happy that we had a chance to meet in person. Finally, dude, and connect. And I just appreciate you, man, for being real, for being honest and for being a leader and for wearing that crown, dude. I appreciate it. [Speaker 1] (1:38:30 - 1:38:34) Amen, dude. Yeah. I see you got yours behind you. I need to get one of those. Where do you get that? [Speaker 2] (1:38:35 - 1:38:39) So if you got it for me for Christmas one year, you know, just appreciate you, brother. [Speaker 1] (1:38:40 - 1:38:41) I love you guys. Thank you so much. [Speaker 2] (1:38:42 - 1:39:03) I love you too, man. Honestly, such a joy and a pleasure to watch your journey and your evolution. And I love the new perspectives and the way that you're so malleable and able to flow and flex and you're not rigid. I just like that you're open to all of it, man. And I really appreciate you for who you are as this being sitting across from me via computer. So thank you, man. [Speaker 1] (1:39:04 - 1:39:05) In person soon, maybe April. [Speaker 2] (1:39:06 - 1:39:11) Let's do it, bro. 100 percent. What do you want to leave that audience with, Alec, in terms of what you've going on? [Speaker 1] (1:39:14 - 1:40:31) Well, obviously, I'm like building this platform the way forward. Soon, we're going to be launching a holistic and freedom oriented business directory publicly here soon. And it's different than the ones that are already available, like Public Square. You can find out more about it just by following along with us at the way forward dot com. And the forward is spelled FWRD. So the way forward dot com. And the last thing that I'll say is I recorded one of my favorite episodes that I recorded in a long time with this guy named Vinnie Todd Tolman, who had what's called an after death experience, not even a near death experience. He was zipped up in a body bag, no pulse, no breath, body already going into rigor mortis. And what he shared about that his journey to the afterlife was that he learned these 10 principles. And the most important principle that he learned from what he calls his guide is being authentic. That is the most important thing we can do in this life is be authentic. And when he said that, it's like, damn, I'm on the right path. I think you guys are on the right path. And for those that are listening and watching this, as long as you are choosing authenticity over conformity, you're probably on the right path. [Speaker 2] (1:40:31 - 1:41:40) Amen. 100% bro. Amen. Amen. Amen. That's an excellent signpost. Jesus name. Guys, thanks for listening. What a freaking awesome episode. Man, what an incredible conversation that was. Dude, it was awesome, man. What a great chat with Alec. And just, yeah, much respect for that, dude. Yeah, man, keeping it real is what it's about. As we mentioned on the podcast, being here for the truth is key. And that's why we started what we started and why we continue to do what we do. And on that note, just before we sign off for good, I just want to remind our listeners that we have a private membership community just for truth seekers, just for those who want to get deeper, who want to immerse themselves in a community who's on the path, explore new knowledge from us on live calls, as well as from our podcast guests who come on and host guest expert workshops. Alec, who you just heard, is actually be joining us in March and our members will get the chance to interact with him directly and ask him questions. So if you're keen, you can learn more at friendsofthetruth.co. Thanks again so much for your support. We really appreciate it. Take care and we'll see you next time.