Alec Zeck Still Keeping It Real

[Speaker 3] (0:00 - 0:33) What's up, everybody. Welcome back to the first episode of 2024. And what a way to kickstart this than with our good friend, Alec Zek in the house. Number four, he first joined us episode 44, Virology is pseudoscience. He joined us on 105, keeping it real. And he joined us with Mike Winner in episode 125. We talked about closing the curtain on virology. Alec bro, welcome back. Good to be here. I thought it was three. I guess it is three and a half. [Speaker 2] (0:34 - 0:51) Yeah, you shared you shared the stage with with Mike Winner, we were talking about this topic. And your end of COVID series two, we were talking about that, which is dope. Man, great to have you on. Appreciate you. I love our conversations and looking forward to seeing wherever this one goes. [Speaker 1] (0:52 - 0:54) Knows where the fuck this one's gonna go. [Speaker 3] (0:55 - 0:59) Yeah. Well, I mean, what's happening for you right now, Alec? [Speaker 1] (1:00 - 1:40) God, what a question. I'm chilling, man. That's it. I'm chilling. I think 2024 will be, well, I'm doing a lot of stuff, but I don't know, just kind of going where life leads me focusing on my podcast and my community, sort of like hunkering down with my energy in 2024 overall. Yeah. Not going to be on social media near as much. I feel like I don't have much to say right now on social media. I'm not going to post for the sake of posting. That's stupid. So I just, I don't know. I'm just kind of doing my thing. [Speaker 3] (1:40 - 1:43) What's your ultimate goal with everything you're building? [Speaker 1] (1:44 - 4:16) Yeah. So I guess my ultimate goal is to provide a, there's some context that is required in this statement, but to provide an all-inclusive place where people can connect both in person and virtually with like-minded people, with people who are interested in health and sovereignty, but to also provide education that is specifically tailored towards those things. So towards mind, body, and spirit health as three categories, and then also towards sovereignty and law, and then also towards homesteading and off-grid living, and then also towards unschooling and homeschooling. So that's kind of what we're, we've been working on for a few months now with the way forward. And it's a, it's a project, but eventually, I guess this is the first place I'm saying this, but I'm okay with saying it's fine. Eventually I will be in terms of this branding for the podcast. It'll be distancing. I'll be distancing myself from the way forward completely in that I'm giving the way forward over to a larger group of people, like a group of people who do what I do so that we can all come together and provide education in one place. And that doesn't mean that those who we bring on the way forward will exclusively have to use the way forward for their education. We're just asking for a piece of it. And those details, we're still trying to figure out what makes the most sense. But essentially, the way forward will not be Alex Zek's thing. It'll be a group-led thing. And I will still have my podcast, but that'll be separate of the way forward. And we're working out all the details. And we're setting up as an unincorporated religious society. And again, I'm not religious, but it's for the sake of, according to the law, religion and spirituality would be the same thing, really. So it's like a spiritual society. And what I do is speak the truth from a spiritual perspective, right? And setting up the way forward as that, that is completely separate of the government, has no relationship to the government. And we'll have chapters similar to what we had when I was running Health, Freedom for Humanity. And yeah, we're working on all that stuff. And the intention is, again, just to take people who are on their journey of awakening through some education that can help facilitate them on their journey to becoming more free and healthy. Essentially it. [Speaker 2] (4:17 - 4:21) Thank you, Reverend Zek. I really appreciate you being here. [Speaker 1] (4:22 - 4:29) It's actually presiding patriarch, Zek. And it actually, it really is. Presiding patriarch, Zek. [Speaker 2] (4:30 - 4:40) It's amazing. Yeah, I want to ask you something, man. Obviously, like a lot's happened the last few years. Like what have been your biggest lessons since 2020 rolled out? Like for you personally, professionally? [Speaker 1] (4:42 - 4:55) Healing never stops. It's not like an end state. And man, that's a deep question. I would say that's the first piece. Let me sit with that for a second. Biggest lesson. [Speaker 3] (4:55 - 4:59) Even just from last year. I feel like last year was a big year for everyone. [Speaker 2] (5:00 - 5:04) Yeah, definitely. What were the biggest lessons from the last 30 years of your life? [Speaker 1] (5:05 - 7:33) Well, I would say one of the biggest ones, I think over 2023 and 2022 is that I'm on my path. I still don't know what to describe what that path is. And then the second thing is there were multiple times in 2022 and the early half of 2023 where I thought my family was financially fucked. And I think that God, creator spirit provides in every situation that we thought we were screwed. Money came right when we needed it. And yeah, I'd say I'm still kind of like recollecting what the actual lesson was on 2023. But the greater lesson, I think from 2020 till now is that I feel so much more fulfilled doing something that I'm passionate about and that I love, even if I am taking a financial hit, so to speak, relative to what I could be making as a systems engineer or project manager for some big corporation, that I feel so much more fulfilled now doing what I'm doing. And I don't know of many jobs outside of the entrepreneurial realm where you can just say, I'm not going to do anything for two weeks and just go hang out with my family because I want to. And you know what? I feel like I haven't taken my wife on enough dates, so I'm just going to not work at all for every Thursday and Friday from here on out because I'm going to take my wife out on dates and spend time with her. And I mean, one thing that stuck out to me in like 2018 or 2019, my wife's dad, this might be getting a little personal, but it's fine. My wife's dad was an army officer for 25 to 30 years, and I was still in the army at this time. And it took him getting a little, having a little, a few drinks to really like break him open, you know? And he kind of relayed to me that he regretted not being there for his daughters a lot when they were growing up. And that always sat with me because you can work yourself as a slave for the system. And I don't want to, if he ever listens to this, which I highly doubt, but I don't want to say you're a slave to the system at all. [Speaker 3] (7:33 - 7:36) You're asking what's his personal email, so just be careful. [Speaker 1] (7:36 - 8:18) But my point is, is that you could work that way forever and make money and like be a cog in the wheel of the machine. And yeah, I'm sure you can still enjoy weekends and things like this, but you're missing out on so much about life. And I would rather take a financial hit, so to speak, and be there with my wife and my kids and enjoy experiencing my kids grow up and spending time with my wife and growing together, then work myself to death for some, you know, stupid goal of retiring by age 65. And it's like, I'd rather just live a life that I enjoy now. [Speaker 2] (8:19 - 8:58) Yeah, man. I mean, ultimately it comes down to values and what you value. So if you value spending time with your children, with your wife, and being the type of father that you want to be, you know, you create your life around that as best you can. And I think that's the benefit of entrepreneurial journey, man, is that you do have that level of control over your life. Doesn't mean you're not going to work super hard, but then again, when you're working for yourself and doing something that you love, where your work is an extension of you, as opposed to having to go somewhere and then like hide big, huge parts of yourself just to exist within the system, it just doesn't seem as fulfilling. Again, that's from my standpoint, I would say you agree and Joel agrees and other people, they may not agree with that. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (8:58 - 10:56) I'd say one more thing that sort of builds off of the healing never stops thing. I remember I did a bunch of childhood trauma healing between 2018 and 2019. I was like, ah, that's it, I'm healed now. And it's never like that. There's always more unraveling that needs to be done, more conditioning that needs to be broken through, and more self-reflection and introspection that needs to be done. And I remember when this traumatic stuff began to happen between me and my mom, I was like, oh my God, I thought I already went through all this. I thought I already did all this. And now I've come to a more wise understanding of healing in that life is always going to be presenting you with challenges and traumas and triggers and things like this. And it's a beautiful gift because the more that it presents you with these situations, the more it's polishing you to become a diamond. I know that's cliche, but it's true. And then also the more that you learn about yourself in the process, it really is a beautiful gift. And it's like totally reframed how I feel about triggers and trauma and conflict and having to have hard conversations with people or having to be really honest with myself is that it's a beautiful blessing and a gift. It is. And is it difficult? Yeah. Is it hard in the moment? Yeah. Do you want to sometimes in these situations avoid them and run? Is that what comes up? You know, the fight, flight, fawn, or freeze response? Yeah, it comes up. But when you're aware of the blessing that is on the back end of situations like this, it sort of takes a little bit of the weight off and then you welcome situations like this. So that's another thing that I've really learned in the last three and a half, almost four years. [Speaker 3] (10:57 - 11:21) Oh, yeah, bro. Beautifully said, man. I mean, and to me, that's simply what you've summated is what it means to live life consciously. You know, everything in your environment, all the feedback you receive is simply tools for you to be sculpted into the masterpiece, you know, which we're all born to be. And if you're doing that unconsciously, then you're going to be a victim. But if you're doing that consciously, then you're going to recognize everything is sharpening me. I can never lose. I can never fail. I'm either winning or I'm learning. [Speaker 2] (11:23 - 11:42) Yeah. And the reality is like, you can't just be like, oh, I got there. I'm now enlightened. I've now done the thing like every stage of your life presents something new, whether it's within your family, whether it's in within, you know, your work life. And so, you know, you're always sharpening your sword. You're always being pushed up against something, especially if you want to keep growing and not just remain stagnant. [Speaker 1] (11:43 - 12:52) On that point that you made, Joel, and then what you just reiterated there, your osmos, I remember, you know, basketball is like my life growing up. So, I memorized this quote because I had the poster on my wall. And it's from Michael Jordan. I've missed almost 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games, 26 times. I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed. Yeah. One of the best quotes of all time. Yeah. And like the same could be applied, obviously, what we're talking about in this context isn't failure necessarily, but it's like what many would look at as failure or even having what would be considered a quote midlife crisis. People look at that as like, oh, that dude's failing in life. It's like, no, that dude's going through some shit. And if you welcome it head on, you know, I'm 31, but I'm speaking to more people who are your osmosis age, but but you get what I'm saying. Like society would consider those failures. It's not a fucking failure. That just helps refine you into something that's stronger, more resilient, more whole, more authentic, more real. Gives you depth. [Speaker 3] (12:53 - 14:15) You have to welcome the process and you have to welcome the darkness. You know, that's where greatness is for you, bro. And it's been my experience. And, you know, I take the stance that life is not easy, but I'm up to the challenge and I'm appropriate for that challenge. And, you know, I'll meet all of it as it comes and I'll become better as a result. I want to comment on something you mentioned before about like, you know, you're experiencing certain financial difficulties then each time, you know, you were kind of, I guess, saved, so to speak. And I've had similar experiences and like there's a serendipity that exists. You know, there's a grace that exists. And like so many times we think we're going to fall. The ground is falling from under us. You know, there's no escaping it. Everything's fucked, et cetera, et cetera. There is always this grace that comes more often than not, this serendipity that comes more often than not. Even like I watch my kids, like the times that they fall and hurt themselves and it looks so fricking bad, but then somehow like they're okay. It's better than I thought it's going to be. Like they're kind of like helped by something, some kind of presence or some kind of force. And like this is becoming like an undeniable reality for me that I'm witnessing the more that I go through life. Like what are your thoughts on that? [Speaker 1] (14:16 - 17:43) Yeah, I completely agree. I mean, just speaking within the context of my kids, I've had countless experiences, same thing, where I'm like, holy shit, that looked bad. Or I remember our daughter was eight or nine months old and she was crawling around on the bed and we were in the other room and she fell off the bed and like fell on her head. We got it all on the camera because we had a camera set up and we were like, holy, like we were freaking out and she was completely fine. And then another situation like that. But I don't know if it's, I mean, it's, it's, it's what I would call God and grace and where I was going at in my mind is like what, how come some people don't experience that? You know, like why, why is it that I get to experience this and I don't have the answers to that. And that's where I just feel so blessed that like, I feel like God looks after me, John, God genuinely looks after me. And could it be that I'm on my path and maybe it's because other people aren't, I don't want to say that because that sort of makes it seem like I'm more special than other people or Joel, you're more special and your family's more special than other people. Um, but then at the same time I've gone through a lot of hard shit in my life where it seems like grace was completely out of the equation altogether. There was no serendipitous presence, uh, at all. But I think it's like, again, going back to the trauma piece of it, even those situations where it seems like grace wasn't present, it was me being forged in the fire to become a more whole version of myself. So it's like, was grace actually present? I didn't realize it. And you know, for people who experienced loss and it seems like they don't have as much grace as, as others, is it that, um, they're, they're failing to see the or use that situation as a catalyst for growth or change, uh, irrespective of how hard that situation is. Is it, um, we know how much our psyche plays into the manifestation of our reality. Is it that they are sort of looking at that situation from a victim mentality, sort of woe is me state, which all of us go through or have gone through at various points in our life when we're experiencing traumatic stuff. But when you're perpetuating it, I think you're just feeding more of the same. So it may seem like there's a lack of grace, a lack of serendipity present in your life altogether. But I think it's, it's an opening, an opening that is required to understand that grace is ever present, even in my darkest situations, because I am being held and I am, this is going to be something that leads to a better outcome for me. Or, you know, it's like when a door closes, right? A lot of us, or when a situation doesn't turn out the way we want it to, it's like, fuck man, what the fuck? I worked my ass off on that. You know, I worked my ass off on three years for this project or let's say a virologist that worked for 25 years on virology. And now I'm being told that it's all a lie. This is fucking bullshit, but maybe that's opening up something for you if you're willing to, you know, stop, um, perpetuating that resistance that you experienced with it. I just kind of threw up, but that's, that's sort of the download that came to me on that answer. [Speaker 2] (17:44 - 18:43) Yeah, man. I mean, I, I agree with you in that, in that, in that, in terms of what you're saying is like, things happen to us. We are victims. We, we like, we are victimized, but how long do we stay in that? What do we do about it? Some of us have experienced way worse things. We're born in a certain country, you know, we're born into a certain family, you know, so we can sit here and play the compare game and you have it worse, you have it better. But at the end of the day, it's like, my life is my life. Like I'm dealing with what's in front of me. And so what am I going to do with it? You know, whether a parent dies early or a sibling dies or a child dies, like, you know, these are horrible things that happen that are just part of the human experience. And ultimately what do we choose to do with it? You know, is what I think what separates, you know, people in some ways, you know, like some people want to stay in that place and the what was me and other people are go, okay, this is horrible. I'm going to feel the feelings when I go through it. I'm going to be in the darkness of who I am. And then what, you know, what comes from that? How do I rise out of the ashes? [Speaker 1] (18:44 - 20:36) Yeah. And this is the thing I think on the necessity of feeling that, like going deep into those emotions associated with, let's say your, you know, your brother just died or something like that, like that you got to feel those feelings. But I think especially in the healing space, people are all over the spectrum when it comes to any of these situations where they either like go into it way too deep and then they're just living there for the rest of their lives or they avoid going there all together and pretend it's never happening. And then it manifests as physical symptoms or it, you know, leads to some greater explosion internally down the road. And I think that it really comes down to the unique uniqueness of the individual and how much time is required and the uniqueness of the circumstances and situation. Like so many people are confused. I mean, I've dealt with that too. Like how do I know if I've healed something? How do I know if I'm fully processed something? How do I know if I don't have any stuck emotions? And it's like, I don't think we'll ever know, but I know that when triggers come up, I'm going to work through them in that moment of Nathaniel Solis, who I know you guys are homies with too, said something to me with respect to feelings that he had heard from one of his mentors and he said, feelings are there because they're meant to be felt. That's why. They come because they're meant to be felt. That's it. And it's like that is such a powerful reframe because it's like, oh, this is here because I'm meant to feel it. Why? I don't know. It's just here. That's what's present in my awareness right now and I'm meant to feel it until it's complete. And then once it's complete, I can, you know, move on, transition to something else. Yeah, I think it's unique to the individual on what is required and when it comes to healing. [Speaker 2] (20:37 - 20:43) Yeah, there's so many variables. Like we have so many experiences where we come from, you know, no two paths look the same. [Speaker 3] (20:44 - 22:13) I think, you know, just in terms of the broader context, I think grace and serendipity is more present for those who claim responsibility for life. And I think it's something that generally has to be seized. I think it's a constant and I think it comes to us in very subtle ways, ways which we might not even consider, you know, serendipity. But very often, you know, when we ignore responsibility, we kind of don't see that happening for us and happening in our lives. Carl Jung tells this story where he was working for such a lot for months on end with this very like super rational, super intellectual client. He couldn't get any breakthroughs whatsoever. And then one day she was sharing this dream about this golden scarab beetle. And like he just couldn't break through to her. And he heard this little tapping, he was sitting against the window and he heard this little tapping on the window. And like at first, he didn't think anything of it. But then he thought, hang on, let me see what's going on here. And there was a beetle tapping on the window and he decided to open the window. The beetle flew through the door, he grabbed it in his hand and he noticed it was this golden scarab beetle. And he gave it to his client and he goes, here's your scarab. And from that point on, that opened her up to be able to, you know, truly go through a psychotherapeutic process. But it takes the awareness of like, hang on, everything is my food, everything is the fuel, everything can be used to facilitate a breakthrough or to facilitate a conscious evolution for myself or for the other. [Speaker 1] (22:14 - 22:53) I mean, that's so beautifully, that story is beautiful. And it's crazy because it already makes sense to me. But even so, there's times where I'm in the thick of it and I'm like, man, what the fuck? Like, why does this shit always happen to me? Like, woe is me. And it's almost a necessary experience to really go into that and even feel like, oh, woe is me. This shit always happens to me to just feel authentically what I'm feeling. And then that feeling goes away. And the next day I'm like, damn, I sounded like a little victim, baby back bitch yesterday, but it was also necessary for me too, you know? [Speaker 2] (22:53 - 23:45) We have many parts to us, man. We have to be able to honor them, and not just push them down and operate from these one season worlds where this is how I am. There is duality. Yes, we can talk about what is encompassing this duality, but there is. So, it's like on one side. Here in this reality, there's duality. I'm like fucking dealing with it, or my inner critic is strong. And then the next day I feel like Superman. And I understand there's a part of me that feels like fucking Superman. And there's a part of me that feels like I can't do anything right. And there's a part of me that feels deep joy and love. And there's a part of me that feels fucking depressed sometimes, you know? And it's like, how do we, and I say this often, how do we become the conductor of our inner orchestra of parts, of instruments that sing a different tune, that play a different note? And like, that's the beauty of the human experience. We contain this universe within us. [Speaker 1] (23:46 - 25:11) How do we come into acceptance of all those parts? Because I think, especially in the healing space, so many of us tend to deny those other parts of us and pretend that we shouldn't have them. Or we look at the superficial reality that is juxtaposed on social media, people's lives, where there's, it's just a complete, it's not real. It's not real. And we see that, especially people in the wellness space who appear to have everything all worked out, figured out all together. And then we sort of try to project that onto our lives. And we're like, oh, I shouldn't feel this way ever because I'm like me, I'm a, you know, I'm a podcaster with a really big alternative podcast, whatever. I have those feelings sometimes like, oh, I'm not supposed to feel this way. I should have a fucking eight pack right now. Why don't I have like perfect abs? I'm supposed to be a wellness influencer. And it's like, no, I'm a fucking man. I'm a human being that just happens to do those other things. And I sort of tend to, and I think everyone does this, uh, look at those other parts of me or, or the supposed shortcomings as, as wrong or bad. And I should be this way. And when you learn to accept all parts of yourself, even the darker aspects of yourself, it just takes the weight off. And it's like, damn, I, you become more real. It's more real. It's not superficial. It's more grounded in reality. [Speaker 2] (25:11 - 25:42) And that's ultimately what compassion is, is that when you accept these parts of you, you see them in others and you accept them to certain degrees. You can see yourself in the other, because you're like, Hey, I have that part of me. You know, I could be a dickhead. Sometimes, you know, I can like act like a crybaby sometimes, you know what I mean? Whereas opposed to if you don't, if you don't have that connection to these parts of yourself, you know, you're more often than not, you're just judging everyone around you. And then we see what happens. We just look at social media, unconscious behavior, unconscious communication happening 24 seven. Yep. [Speaker 1] (25:43 - 28:18) Yeah. You know, I was laughing because what came up for me is like, when you said be an asshole, sometimes I'm not going to name the name, but there's this guy that was supposed to come on my podcast, but I just didn't want to touch on the topic that he's touching on because it related to Israel and Palestine. And it went like way too far from where I was willing to go, especially because I don't know enough about it. And on one of his own videos, he said that we should take Jewish people and put them all in South Dakota. Like all Jewish people need to go to South Dakota. And I just didn't want to have him on my show. So then he started slandering me online a little bit, but then he apologized. And then he like went back on his word and then apologized. And there's a miscommunication between us, and he's a great dude. And then, you know, we both apologized to each other and we're good now. And, you know, I made some mistakes there too, because I had originally said, yes, I'll have you on. And then I decided I wouldn't have him on. Anyway, on the phone with him, he said something, something, these pussy ass bitches. And I thought he was referring to me. So it like triggered me. And I said, bro, do you just call me pussy ass bitch? I will beat your fucking ass if you say that one more time. So like that aspect came out of me. He's like, bro, I wasn't talking about you. I was like, oh man, I'm really sorry. I felt really bad for like the next day. But that's the point. I mean, I used to get in fistfights and bars, dude. That's what I would do. That's how I would let out my anger, my rage. And then for a while, this is a perfect example. I looked at that as, oh, I'm not supposed to experience anger and rage. So I would just stuff it down. Then it started manifesting as physical pain in my body all the time. I had lower back pain all the time. I had shoulder pain all the time. I had neck pain all the time. And now I've learned to deal with my anger and rage in a healthy way, which typically involves going to punch a boxing bag or a bag in my garage or just fucking yelling or screaming or breaking something that is okay to break. Not someone's face. Yeah. Not someone's face. Exactly. But that's a perfect example of that aspect still comes out of me sometimes. And what I typically would have done if I had said what I said to that individual is for the next week, I would have shamed myself like that's so fucked up. I can't believe you did that. But I was like, no, you know what? I apologized. I was wrong because I projected my anger onto him. But I was angry in the moment at the time. And luckily I didn't punch him in the face. And I made my amends and I apologized. And I'm a human being. I'm going to make mistakes and it's okay. And then I was good the next day. [Speaker 2] (28:19 - 29:23) Yeah. And again, like going back to what we said before, it's fuel for introspection. What was the trigger? Why did I want to punch this person in the face? What vulnerability within me was triggered that instantaneously I went in like, I will fucking knock you out, bro, you know, or whatever, you know, and like it's it's like, it's not about not having the experience. This is the thing. It's like, we have these parts, they have different ways of being. We want to experience them. We want to build awareness around these experiences. And then ultimately we want to be able to have the consciousness to stand in between the tension of opposites and choose a more conscious, more righteous action, depending on the situation. It's not about denying. It's not about repressing. It's about holding and feeling and sweating and and then living heroically and living righteously in that regards. And I'm not into repression. Anyone who knows me, anyone that knows what we talk, I'm not into repression. I'm just into like knowing yourself and knowing how to relate to these aspects of yourself within yourself. But more importantly, because we're social beings in relationship, in our partnerships, with our wives, with our husbands, with whatever, you know what I mean? And and that's the work. [Speaker 1] (29:24 - 29:51) It provides you empathy because you see when other people are experiencing something or or have made a mistake themselves, it's like, holy shit, I've been there and I have done this self-reflection introspection surrounding that. And it shows that like when you have depth in yourself, you can see the depth in other people. You really can, especially when you've done the work. You can recognize it in other people. You can recognize deep people around you. And it just makes you a more whole human being. [Speaker 2] (29:52 - 31:03) Yeah. Self-accountability is key here, man, because we're going to bump into shit. We're going to get into arguments. We're going to say the quote unquote wrong thing. But what do we do afterwards? You know, do we stay in the blame game or do we like, you know, maybe pull away, sit with ourselves, feel what's happening in our bodies? What's going on there? You know, notice the the thinking processes that are going on. You know, we go on these mind adventures, we get triggered and all of a sudden we're like, I'm going to punch this person in the face. I can't believe she said that to me. What the fuck? You know, and like we're curious about that. Why is this happening? And then hopefully we come back and go, hey, listen, you know, I'm you know, I'm sorry that I said that to you and I'm sorry I disrespected you. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, whatever the case may be, depending on the context of the situation. But that's that's the journey. It's like having the experience and then reflecting back. You know, we're not going to be living in this total blissed out state 24 seven in every single interaction that we have. That's not real. No, it's not human. No, no. And ultimately, it's a recipe for like passive aggressive behavior. People that like project this like spiritual quality and everything's perfect, I found through my history are the most passive aggressive. There's little things fucking pop out. OK, OK, Mr. Spiritual person. [Speaker 1] (31:04 - 31:52) Well, and they're unable to. They're unable to express authentically, let's put it that way, because I can think of people off the top of my head that are like that, that sort of project that onto social media. And granted, like they provide that necessary information to help other people who may be deep in a dark hole. Right. But because they've sort of taken on that persona publicly, they oftentimes feel the need to be like that all the time. Going back to my example, being like a quote, wellness influencer, like what the fuck, you know, you you put yourself in this box rather than putting yourself in fluidity that is human, like experiencing the full spectrum of emotions and feelings and and seasons in life. And it's just inauthentic. It's not authentic. [Speaker 3] (31:52 - 31:58) You can't you can't let your self-concept be defined by the crowd. Like, yeah, yeah, period. And you can't buy into that. [Speaker 2] (31:59 - 32:07) Yeah. You can't buy into the projection field, you know, like people online with huge followings like, oh, my God, you're the savior. You have all the answers like you can't buy into that. [Speaker 1] (32:08 - 32:08) Like, cool. [Speaker 2] (32:08 - 32:12) I'm grateful that I have some knowledge and I share and I'm human and I fuck up. I'm not perfect. [Speaker 1] (32:13 - 32:14) Yep. One hundred percent. [Speaker 3] (32:15 - 32:36) You know, yeah. I want to. Before, like you mentioned, you know, back to like the financial aspect, like how do you how do you navigate like being a businessman in the in the in the truth world? Because there's so much you can't make money from the truth. You can't make money selling it, helping people, you know, all the time. [Speaker 1] (32:36 - 33:06) I used to buy into that, like, oh, I should be freely giving all this stuff. And I was like, yeah, great. In an ideal world, that would be the case when all of us have tapped into our legacy accounts and corrected our status and have refined these processes and get and black cards issued to us from the U.S. Treasury. Yeah, sure. That would be great because there is credit that is there that is sitting in accounts that they've obfuscated ways that we can touch it. But that's for another time. [Speaker 2] (33:06 - 33:08) Bro, my net worth is 17 million dollars, bro. [Speaker 1] (33:09 - 34:57) Dude, it's more than that. It's it's like hundreds of millions for each of us. But but without going into that, I shouldn't have even fucking said any of that. That just puts it off on a tangent. But sorry, sorry. None of that shit. But yes. But the. The idea that we should here's the irony in this. It is a communist mentality to think that other people should be doing all of the work they're doing to provide value, to educate other people for free, and that you should be entitled to it. And I previously, when I was in a financial hole, would get really, really, really triggered by people saying asking why I was charging for things or this or that, especially because I was not financially abundant at the time. I was I was really struggling, actually. And I think having worked through that and now being in a financially stable situation, I look at people who say shit like that. I'm like, those are people I don't want to reach anyway. Whatever. I'm just going to move on from them. They're not worthy of my time because they're miserable. They are not living in abundance themselves. So why would I want to? They're not someone who I'd want to educate anyway, because it's clear they're already in a state of victimhood themselves. And they believe that not only am I not worthy to receive abundance, but they don't have enough abundance themselves to provide me compensation for my labor and my time to create various programs and things like this. So it's ironically a communist stance that much of the freedom community takes when it comes to stuff like this. [Speaker 2] (34:58 - 35:15) It's also ignorant in the sense that how much free content are you putting out? How much knowledge and information are you putting out with your podcast and with your posts? And it's like, I can't believe you just made a post where you're asking for money. [Speaker 1] (35:15 - 35:40) Yeah. Or like I pinned a comment on one of my posts the other day, and then a few people comment like, oh, there it is, the ask for money. And I'm like, I made a program that is 108 hours worth of content that I and 30 other people spent like nine months on. And the overwhelming majority of stuff we do is for free. So for those who want to go deeper, yes, this is here and you can go look. [Speaker 2] (35:40 - 35:54) And also you made 108 hours plus hours of content for something that's less than a fucking night out for dinner. Exactly. You know what I mean? It's hilarious. [Speaker 1] (35:55 - 36:08) It's ridiculous. Yeah. And I don't even like try to bother with those people anymore because it's clear that they don't get it. And it's almost sad that they claim to be freedom oriented, but then they believe that they should be entitled to everything. [Speaker 3] (36:09 - 36:22) It's the most freedom inhibiting mindset that exists. It's socialist, it's toxic, it's memberistic. Trade is the foundation of civilization since the beginning of time. We have traded. [Speaker 1] (36:23 - 36:34) Yeah, exactly. Exactly, man. And maybe we weren't trading like worthless fiat currency, but we were trading value that still holds some sort of value. It represents something, right? [Speaker 3] (36:34 - 36:49) But regardless, sure, the federal reserve system is messed up and to an extent it's printed in thin air, but right now it's still the means of our survival. These pieces of paper, these digital numbers in our accounts. [Speaker 1] (36:49 - 37:54) I've even had someone complain to me because the lower tier of our membership, which is awesome and we're still working on refining it, it allows you to type in your zip code, find other people near you that are like-minded. It allows you access to this marketplace where just the minimum amount that's required, it pays itself over and over like 10 times in that we have discounts with some of the best holistic health brands. And I had someone have the audacity to say, two different people. One person said, this should be free. Why even have a minimum amount due? And then another person, because we advertise it as, because it's basically true when it comes to processing fees and things like this using Stripe, we say, you pay what you want. It's a value for value model because it is. And our minimum is $2 a month, $2. And someone said- And someone's complaining about that. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Someone was like, you say that it's value for value and pay what you want. Why can't I pay 50 cents? I'm like, two bucks? [Speaker 2] (37:54 - 38:12) Dude, that person's probably spending $5 on an orange mocha fucking Frappuccino for one day. From Zoolander? You know? Sure, sure. Yeah, that's probably where it came from, from my memory palace. But yes, exactly, man. Orange mocha Frappuccino. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [Speaker 3] (38:14 - 38:16) The guy at the gas station saying- And again, it's like, cool. [Speaker 2] (38:16 - 38:34) You're free to do whatever you want. We're here, we're talking shit here and there, but it's true. It's like, at the end of the day, I'm an individual that is creating something of value. And then again, you don't have to pay for it. You could charge $10,000 a month if you want for your membership program. And if someone wants to pay for it, then that's great. You know what I mean? [Speaker 1] (38:36 - 39:12) So to answer your question, Joel, how do I deal with just being a businessman in the truth space? I really don't think twice about it anymore. If I feel like I've created something that is of value to people and I set a price for it, that's that. And if people don't like it, then don't pay for it. It's totally fine with me, but if you feel that this could provide value in your life, great, then pay for it. That's capitalism. The market will decide. The people will decide if it has value, and if not, then don't pay for it. [Speaker 3] (39:12 - 39:33) That's it. Awesome, man. I like to hear it, bro. And I also want to challenge you on your assumption before that you believe you can't receive as much financial consumption as you want by doing what you're doing, as opposed to being a systems engineer or working some other job. And I think that's limiting. And I think you can do all of it and still have as much freedom and time to give to your family. [Speaker 1] (39:33 - 39:50) Yeah. And see, I still have some of that conditioning that's still inside my head where I'm like, oh, I'm not going to make as much money as I would doing X, Y, and Z in the normal world. That's a really good point. And I still have some of that conditioning. So thanks for calling me out on that. [Speaker 3] (39:51 - 40:40) No worries, man. This is the journey and the process that I love about being alive is that it's on me and it's on my ability to think creatively in terms of how I can provide value and receive value and manage my time and prioritize my time and my actions and all the rest of it. And all innovation, all growth, all forward movement has come from man's mind, man's ability to think, man's ability to conceive, right? The ship, the wheel, the light, the plane, whatever it might be. And I thrive and I just relish under this notion that it's on my capacity to think. You know? And to me, this is psychologically healthy, but I think to the psychologically unhealthy individual, it's like, why do I need to think? Why do I need to make the effort? [Speaker 1] (40:42 - 42:57) Just tell me what to do. And I will say it is quite the transition, especially since I haven't really had that... I never had that space to really sit and think on what I want to do that a lot of people have after they get out of the military, where you're just being told what to do every freaking day. And you're just doing that task over and over and over again. You might be leading other people creatively, and I was as an officer, but for the most part, you're just being told what to do, right? Like you're just being told what to do and your paycheck is guaranteed. It's going to come every single month. It's going to be the exact same amount. And I think because I jumped out of the military and right into health, freedom for humanity and was just scrambling to start a business and build it from the ground up, I never had time to really sit and reflect. So I'm still undoing some of that conditioning from the military of like, holy shit, my family is only going to be fed if I creatively think on how to provide value, which a layer below that is believing, not believing, truly knowing that I'm worthy. I'm worthy of receiving abundance. And that is the thing that I was dealing with that whole time is feeling unworthy of receiving abundance. And then that would just show up over and over again in my life where I would be met with situations that were very scary financially. And of course, again, that grace, that serendipity, it would always work out. Every single time it would work out. But there was a lot of challenging situations over the last two and a half years. And it's, I think, largely because I felt I wasn't worthy to receive. When people used to question, like I said, if I would, you know, setting prices on certain things, I would get really triggered. And it's because, oh, well, maybe they're showing me a piece of me where I agree with them. And I shouldn't be receiving this money because I'm not worthy to receive it. And it's dealing with that feelings of those deep wounds of unworthiness that I've done really during my water fast, primarily. So much shit came up during that back in July or August. And yeah, even Kylie would say, after my water fast, I'm like a completely different dude. I really feel like I am. [Speaker 3] (42:58 - 43:22) Everything comes back to self-esteem, man. It's why it's been a core focus of ours since day one. It's why it's a core focus of Rise Above the Herd, which we charge money for. But how you feel about yourself, for real, on the most deepest, subtle levels, that inner congruence, that is the determining factor of how far you're going to go in life. Period. And who you choose as a partner. [Speaker 1] (43:22 - 43:25) Yes. Yeah, for real. [Speaker 3] (43:25 - 43:28) But who you choose as a partner is going to be determined by one's level of self-esteem. [Speaker 1] (43:29 - 43:31) Yeah, you're right. Sorry. That's what you're saying. [Speaker 3] (43:31 - 43:49) Yeah, exactly. Quality of your friends, the quality of relationships, how big you can dream, how big you can envision, the quality of the business that you build, et cetera, et cetera. It all comes back to how clean that mirror is. How much integrity am I into myself? How much consciousness do I bring to my daily actions? [Speaker 2] (43:53 - 43:58) Love you, bro. Thanks, man. I love you guys. Yeah, both of you. That was to both of you. [Speaker 3] (43:58 - 44:09) That was a joke. I was making a joke. So, Ali, it seems as though you're having gains to some sticky situations with RFK lately. [Speaker 1] (44:10 - 44:11) Oh, my God. [Speaker 3] (44:12 - 44:13) It wasn't super sticky. It was just... [Speaker 1] (44:16 - 44:21) You know, I don't know how... Let me think on this, where I want to go. [Speaker 3] (44:21 - 44:52) Let me phrase this. You go ahead. You go ahead. I saw that response to this, Courtney, that submitted the questions regarding the virus, no virus. And he's coming back saying, I choose not to take a stand. But a big part of being in my position is being able to read the public pulse, understanding where the public's at. If Lincoln claimed his stance on slavery too early, it never would have been abolished, etc, etc. But he's clearly taking a stance, right? Yeah, that's what I think. [Speaker 1] (44:52 - 49:00) This is my issue, is when people are incongruent. I can name multiple people who have really big platforms that are not on, quote, team no virus. And there definitely tends to be some people on Twitter and elsewhere that get extremely combative. And they would look at someone like David Whitehead and then throw everything that he says otherwise away because he's not fully on, quote, team no virus, right? And I don't take that position. I also recognize where many of these people, when they behave in a way where they mock others and belittle others, sometimes that can have a comedic effect that is positive in some way. But it's just not the way that I do things. But when it comes to RFK, I'm really triggered. I'm triggered by him. But no, I'm bothered by him in multiple ways, let's say. And I think it's like, the only reason I comment on stuff and use that as an example is to show that many people in the freedom space look to him and cling on to every word that he says and sort of look at him as he is some savior that is going to save them from the big bad pharmaceutical companies and the government now that he's running for president, right? And I personally think that he's misleading people, especially when he says, on one hand, I take no stance and Children's Health Defense has said that they take no stance on the issues related to the existence of SARS-CoV-2. They take no stance. But then they completely go the opposite direction in that they consistently pump the gain of function narrative regarding SARS-CoV-2. So when they say that they're not taking a stance, they're absolutely taking a stance. So it's almost like double speak. And again, I think that this is my perception. I'm open to being wrong on this. The promoting the big, bad, scary gain of function stuff exclusively, especially absent of describing how healthy and resilient the body is, of which I don't see a ton coming from RFK, I do acknowledge he does it sometimes, but it seems to be fear mongering. And it's actually worse than what the mainstream does. Again, I always use this example. If I were to take a, on one side, a virus that has been manipulated in a lab that was taking the naturally occurring version of that thing and trying to weaponize it and make it more lethal and more pathogenic and more deadly, that sounds much scarier than the idea that a virus jumped from a bat to a pangolin to another animal to human or whatever in a one in a gazillion natural chance. And the former is what RFK Jr. and Del Bigtree and some of these health freedom leaders, so to speak, are continuing to share on their platforms. And not only that, they're stifling conversations around terrain on their respective platforms while also positioning themselves as de facto leaders of the quote, freedom movement. So that's why I take issue with that. But that's the only reason I ever replied to it. And then it's, it's hilarious because the moment I said anything on my Instagram, which I didn't attack RFK, I didn't, um, attack his character at all. I didn't imply anything about his character. I simply just said, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. continues to make these statements. They're, they're incorrect. Here's why. And I explained why. And then I lost like 700 or 800 followers that day, which is hilarious to me. And it's like, these people are behaving ironically the same as a lot of the COVID cultists behave in that when you challenge something or challenge one of their leaders or one of their deeply held beliefs, they go into cognitive dissonance and then they have to throw you away. They can't hear it. [Speaker 2] (49:01 - 49:34) Yeah, man. I mean, it's, it's tribalism. It's, it's like similar behavior to if like you're a fan of a football team and someone talks shit about your quarterback, you know, you're just like, what are you talking about? He's the greatest quarterback in the league. Like two of sucks, right? Yeah. Yeah, bro. What bro? Do you understand? Like he's had three offensive coordinators. He dealt with injuries like bro. No, but like, it's, it's interesting to, to, to notice and like, listen, I, whatever that response he gave, I agree to a certain point, depending on your platform, depending on who, I don't disagree with that statement. [Speaker 1] (49:34 - 49:43) I get that where he's coming from thinking for, if he really truly believes in all this stuff, but the problem is that's not what he is actually doing. I agree. [Speaker 3] (49:43 - 49:52) He's not even really publicly saying, imagine it publicly in a real public forum. He's like, I'm not sure if viruses do or don't exist. Like that's not, you know, what's happening still. [Speaker 2] (49:52 - 50:15) No. Well, yeah. I haven't seen that like on a debate or anything where he said that, you know, but I understand someone going, Hey, listen, there's a time and a place and maybe I'm not the person. Maybe Alec, you're the person to be pushing this and talking about it. But like me, who I am, my name, where I come from, like, I'm going to like, just keep it more neutral and, but, but he's not, you know, and a lot of people aren't doing that to that degree. [Speaker 1] (50:15 - 50:36) That's my issue. Right. And that's my whole point is that he says that he says like, I just will not take a public stance on this. I'm sorry. I can't. And then he's posting videos. He's speaking, having conversations about a weaponized virus. So when you say you're not taking a stance on it, and then on the other side, you're talking about a weaponized virus. Yeah. That, you know, that's incongruent. [Speaker 2] (50:36 - 51:00) Yeah. I mean, I feel like we keep, we, we go back to this often. Like you can't rely on someone as being your savior. Like this person's going to change the entire political landscape and the entire history of everything that's been going on generation after generation, you know, like this person will change it and now it would live in harmony. And I just, I was talking, who was I talking with? [Speaker 1] (51:00 - 53:02) I was talking with, I was on the phone. Oh, Dr. Devon Brown. I don't know if you guys know who she is. She was one of our co-hosts for the event, the online virtual event that we did 2021. And we were talking about RFK actually. And we both kind of said at the same time, like, it's so crazy to sit back and understand that the entire tyrannical governmental pharmaceutical media conglomerate that is banking conglomerate that is sort of leading us down this road is based on our collective agreement that it has legitimacy and that we must adhere to what they say to do. Like even many people in the freedom movement perpetuate that victim mentality where it's like, if RFK or Trump don't get elected, we're fucked. Like we are so fucked if they don't get elected. And I just don't believe that. I don't buy into it. And imagine if all the people that were saying that simply just made the decision in their own lives. I would imagine the freedom space is, you know, millions and millions of people at this point. Imagine if all the people in the freedom space, just the freedom space, which represents a small subset of the overall population just decided, I'm not playing these games anymore. We're not doing this. I'm not going to listen to what you say. I'm not going to do what you tell me to do and just decided to live their lives how they best saw fit. Right? Like all of the systems would come crashing down. Would there be resistance? Yeah. But the point is there's so much more of us than them. There's so many more of us. And when I say us, I mean like the larger freedom space, right? But so many people in the quote freedom space are caught up believing that we are fucked unless they get elected or we are fucked unless this person advocates for this and this legislation doesn't get passed. Fuck all that. It's all based on our collective agreement that they have legitimacy and power over us that allows it to perpetuate, that allows any of the tyrannical agenda to continue. [Speaker 3] (53:04 - 53:21) Like I do feel free. There's no worry. I don't feel limited in any way. I don't feel like there's anything that I can't do. I don't feel like anyone has anything over me. Like I do what the fuck I want all the time. Same. Same. Exactly. [Speaker 2] (53:22 - 53:27) It's exactly how I feel. Until a tank shows up in front of my house. Like, I don't know. I feel pretty good. [Speaker 1] (53:28 - 54:11) But ironically, the only way we could get to a point where a tank does show up at our house is if we continue collectively believing that they have power and legitimacy and the right to do X, Y, and Z to us, that they have the right to tell us how to live. That's the only way we could get to that point. Especially like speaking to the US, you know, people talk about, I talked about this with Larkin Rose, people will say, well, what happens if we're, let's assume we're already living in a voluntary society in the United States. What happens if another country tries to invade all of us living in these voluntary pockets? I'm like, good fucking luck. 330 million people who have guns. Good luck, buddy. [Speaker 2] (54:12 - 54:23) Wasn't there a quote, there was a quote by someone in the past, I forget, I don't have it, that was saying that like, there'd be so many people in the long grass, like so many people that would be defending this country if someone tried to like come on our borders. [Speaker 1] (54:23 - 55:32) Yeah. Good luck. Not going to happen. And then people will say that, well, it could happen in Australia. There's so many people in Australia that stood up to the tyranny and they were just thrown in jail, right? They actually said no to the government. Well, and then Joel, your example is a perfect example of like that. No, that's not always true when you truly understand that you are already free one. And then the second thing is yes, because Australia, the Australian people had already collectively believe that the government had rights to take their guns. So they've already gone down that path of tyranny a little bit more than the collective of people, the body politic that is the United States people. Right? Like we, we have not collectively agreed that they have power over us to such an extent that we have then handed in our guns. So it does make it much harder for them to continue telling us what to do. And it makes it much easier to begin to adopt voluntarist principles in somewhere like the United States collectively from a collective point of view. Really brother? What do you guys want to talk about now? [Speaker 2] (55:33 - 55:45) I don't know. Let's keep like, uh, what's next? Joel brought up RFK. Um, I feel like we've talked about the virus stuff. I know one thing that I don't want to talk about. [Speaker 1] (55:46 - 55:48) Who's the best basketball player of all time? [Speaker 2] (55:49 - 55:49) Oh yes. [Speaker 3] (55:49 - 56:00) I was going to bring this up earlier because we said we were going to talk about this and then when we got on some other tangent, uh, right, right, right now watching the, watching the graph of this podcast, all this and it's cut out about. [Speaker 2] (56:00 - 56:05) Yeah. Yeah. They all like the health freedom people into like consciousness. [Speaker 3] (56:05 - 56:11) I'm not willing to go public with my stance here. I don't know why it put me in this situation. That's actually fucked up. [Speaker 1] (56:11 - 56:16) I don't believe, and I do believe sports are all fake. They have magnets on the rims. [Speaker 3] (56:17 - 56:23) Why are these fucking truth is talking about bread and circus. I love these guys. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (56:23 - 56:44) You know what's interesting on this conversation and we'll get back to this is this idea too. Like people have their judgments. Like how dare you watch sports? And then that person's also sitting there watching shitty 30 minute sitcoms. You know, like we all have our, or my kids watch Disney movies sometimes, but like we each have like our forms of entertainment. Like we're humans. We like some entertainment, you know, and like, it's different. Bro. [Speaker 1] (56:45 - 56:53) I was thinking, it's so funny you say that. I was thinking the exact same thing. I was watching the college football playoffs on, uh, the third was on new year's day. It was on new year's day. [Speaker 3] (56:53 - 56:53) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (56:54 - 58:16) So two days ago watching the college football playoffs, two great games, by the way. But I was sitting there watching and I'm like, this excites me. This makes me feel excited. Like, I love this. I love watching dudes who are athletic compete against each other. And maybe the games are rigged to some degree. I, I don't disagree that they might be at some higher level. Maybe, maybe the refs are being paid. The coaches are being told, whatever. I don't know. Um, but even if that is the case, I love watching dudes compete. I love watching dudes make athletic plays and moves. I love the strategy of the game. I love the art that is sports, especially on a, from a team perspective, like having to work with your teammates. It's beautiful. It is literally artistic for me to watch it. It's like an artistic expression, watching athletes that are the best at what they do play on a field. Like it is beautiful. And I just, you know, I was sitting there watching, I'm like, fuck, I haven't like done this a lot in the last three years. And I miss doing this. I used to watch college football on weekends, not all day, not to the point that I'm like glued to the TV, like sports betting. And if people are drinking, I'm not like hammering. And like, if my team loses, I'm fucked. And I'm, you know, pissed off for the next week, talking shit online, none of that stuff. But I'm like, wow, I love this. I love watching sports because I love playing sports growing up. And like, I just have such an appreciation for dude. [Speaker 3] (58:16 - 58:23) I want to make the perfect clip edit of you. I love what she dudes than three, three times. Fuck I'm watching. [Speaker 1] (58:25 - 58:31) Find another clip of me earlier, like somewhere else where I said like butt naked or something put it all together. [Speaker 2] (58:33 - 58:50) No, but like this is like I admire excellence. I admire excellence. And these athletes are the best at what they do. And it's entertainment. And maybe there's some correlation as men. We used to go to war back in the days. And now this is our version of like tapping into that energy. But I enjoy it. And like, you know, sure. [Speaker 3] (58:50 - 58:50) Sure. [Speaker 2] (58:50 - 58:56) I don't want to waste my time watching it all day, you know, but fuck is anyone to tell you how you should value your time? [Speaker 3] (58:56 - 59:14) 100% agree. Agree. I love, I love watching NBA. I follow the NBA, you know, religiously to some degree. I'm always looking at the scores. I'm always looking at, you know, who's, who's doing what? Like I'll watch half a game most nights, you know, whenever I'm asleep, like, but that's how I appreciate finding guys like you. [Speaker 1] (59:14 - 59:16) Cause you, you can have these conversations. [Speaker 2] (59:16 - 59:43) Like you can have, I can talk about this shit with you guys, but it goes back to what we said before about like being more whole or connected to many different parts of us. We can get deep. We can cry. We can talk shit. We can like talk about the world events and we can talk about sports, you know? And I'm not saying everyone else has to do that. We just happen to be that way. And we connect might be art or like music for someone else. Or I don't know, like, I don't, I don't know the names of every single group and band out there, you know, that people talk about. [Speaker 1] (59:44 - 59:49) I love music and I like what I like, you know, that's winter's thing, but winter can also talk basketball too. [Speaker 3] (59:49 - 59:53) Winner can talk about anything. Yeah, he can really, he can. [Speaker 2] (59:54 - 1:00:35) I love it, man. I love it. Okay. Who's the best basketball player of all time? You know, we, we were having a little text exchange a few weeks ago about this and you know, it's, first of all, I got to say, and everyone brings this up, like it's hard to compare errors. It's hard to compare times. Like there's so many different things, the zeitgeist of like how the sport is run and, and what's popular at that time just is different. I mean, Michael Jordan, at the end of the day, you can't six finals, six finals, MVPs, you know, six and Oh, like, but we, we were talking about this, like the longevity of LeBron and his skillset and the fact that he's a beast and what he's been able to do and still do in year 21. Like that's unheard of. That's never been done before. [Speaker 1] (1:00:36 - 1:00:57) It's, it's unheard of seeing, I mean, he just turned 39, right? Just turned 39, seeing what LeBron is doing on the court right now at his age is insane. It is literally unheard of. Um, so is yours MJ though? Would you say MJ? I don't know, man, honestly, for so long, I'm a LeBron hater. And I would say I would put him in the conversation now. [Speaker 2] (1:00:57 - 1:01:51) So this is, this is what's interesting when we talk about, um, you know, our perceptions on things. So I followed LeBron when he was like 15, 16, like, like I almost like when Jerry Stackhouse was like 16 and he was coming out, they were saying he was gonna be the next Jordan. I like love this like excellence of someone who's going to come in and exceed expectations. So I've been a LeBron fan since day one things shifted a little bit because I don't really appreciate his politics and rolling up to rolling up to, um, you know, uh, press conferences, holding like a Malcolm X books, Malcolm X book that he never really read and knows anything about. So that rubbed me the wrong way, but just on basketball alone, like I've been a, like a defender of LeBron James as like the greatest basketball player ever in terms of like, we've seen anyone that big do what he does and have the skillset and dominate. Like he's got the longest period of dominance than any player in NBA history. [Speaker 1] (1:01:51 - 1:02:26) There's never been hype like there was for LeBron coming out of high school ever for any, for any rookie ever in the history of the NBA. I agree with that. And he's lived up to the hype and he's exceeded the expectations. He's you never see happen in the NBA, but then like, there's a piece of me and I don't know what it is that I just like, for some reason I perceive him as a little bitch sometimes. And I don't know why. And I don't know if that's like conditioned into me just like to be a LeBron hater. I don't know. I don't know what it is, but there's something about him that bothers me. I'm off course stuff. [Speaker 2] (1:02:26 - 1:02:35) Maybe I'm a testament of the times too. I think more people in general general are a little bit more bitchy cause the social media and all that stuff. I think, I think it's just part of that. [Speaker 1] (1:02:35 - 1:02:37) I don't know what it is. [Speaker 3] (1:02:38 - 1:02:45) Like, okay. It might be difficult to answer who's the greatest basketball player of all time, but ask him the question, who's the greatest athlete of all time? And the answer is LeBron. [Speaker 1] (1:02:47 - 1:02:53) Yeah. In terms of the balance of athleticism with skill, with technicality, with grit. [Speaker 3] (1:02:54 - 1:02:54) With accomplishment. [Speaker 1] (1:02:55 - 1:03:11) With accomplishment, with, with, uh, what's the word I'm looking for where you're like with clutch, like all those things in one, I w I would agree now in terms of context, here's my argument. Here's my argument. Okay. How long are we doing this? [Speaker 2] (1:03:11 - 1:03:12) It's going to be a four hour episode. [Speaker 1] (1:03:13 - 1:03:15) How long have we been going? What time we start? Okay. We started. [Speaker 2] (1:03:15 - 1:03:17) Now we got another 20 minutes or so. Okay. [Speaker 1] (1:03:17 - 1:03:24) So people typically argue MJ versus LeBron, right? [Speaker 2] (1:03:25 - 1:03:31) Kylie probably People throw Kobe in there. People throw like, you know, Wilt and Bill Chamberlain and Kareem. [Speaker 1] (1:03:31 - 1:05:21) Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Or Bill Russell. Um, cause there's an argument like, well, you got to factor in rings. And like, if you only exclusively factor in rings, then you'd like Robert Horry is one more than like the seven or eight. So that's, you have to kind of factor in all of it holistically, right? Even factoring in the eras and the context of who they're playing against the context of the NBA rules at the time. Okay. So here's my argument for why Kobe Bryant is the greatest basketball player of all time. So Kobe Bryant, you should clip this into your podcast somehow. Have you, you know, the side-by-side comparison of him and MJ where it's like frame for frame. Have you seen that? Well, they play the, they do the same moves and they play on the same spot on the court where they like for a few frames, it's Kobe starting the move. And then it switches to MJ finishing the move in the exact same body movements on multiple plays. Like it's, it's mind-blowing. It is mind-blowing anyway. So Kobe is the greatest player of all time in my mind, because he did similar, similar to what MJ did five rings, not six, right? But accolades. So five-time NBA champion, two times finals MVP. Yes. I understand Mike was six-time finals MVP, but here's the other thing about Kobe. I know Mike was on the first team, all defensive team a number of times, but Kobe was on the all defensive first team nine times. So an incredible defensive player too, but then that this is the context that is extremely important. So almost doing what Mike did in terms of accomplishment, in my opinion, Mike having Scottie Pippen had, had he not had Scottie Pippen, there's no chance that he would have been able to do what he did, especially in the last Phil Jackson and Phil Jackson. Well, Kobe had Phil Jackson too, but yes, I agree. [Speaker 2] (1:05:22 - 1:05:22) Yes. [Speaker 1] (1:05:23 - 1:06:50) But Kobe won maybe two of his championships, at least one. Yes. Pogosol was like a legendary all-star, but the level of Scottie Pippen, absolutely not. And the rest of Kobe's team that year, yes. Rick Fox, decent, but like they weren't, he didn't have like an all-star cast around him when he won at least, at least one of his championships, if not two. Here's the other piece that is huge. Kobe played in an era where there were dudes who were extremely skilled and extremely athletic. I'm not saying that there wasn't athletic dudes around when Mike played, but if you look at a lot of the clips, he's playing against a bunch of white dudes. Yeah. Like not only a bunch of white dudes, but a bunch of like what today would be much more unathletic. Like those dudes would never make the league. Like they would just never make the league in terms of skillset and athleticism and combined. Cause like, I know Luke is not as athletic, but that dude is extremely skilled. So my point is though, that Kobe was playing against extremely athletic, extremely skilled dudes doing the same stuff that Mike did with, with also the context that LeBron is now playing in an era that has ticky tack fouls, where you can't even fucking touch anyone at all on defense. Whereas like I was taught defensively when I was growing up, you put your forearm against some dude's hip that you're guarding that has the ball and you can, you don't push him, but you can hand check a little bit. You can put your hand on their waist. You like, it was a lot more physical. [Speaker 2] (1:06:50 - 1:06:51) I miss Bill Lambier, bro. [Speaker 1] (1:06:52 - 1:07:19) Dude, Bill Lambier, like psychopaths. So like that's who MJ played against us. So yes, they weren't as athletic, but they could beat the shit out of each other. The bad boys, the Detroit Pistons, they were fucking crazy. So Kobe played in the in-between era where you were still allowed to hand check, still allowed to get the shit beat out of you, still allowed to do all that, but was still killing dudes. And they were much more athletic and they were much more skilled. So that's my argument for why Kobe is the greatest player ever. [Speaker 2] (1:07:19 - 1:07:27) Yeah. These arguments are going to go on forever, you know, but it's, it's, it's, it's fun to kind of mess with sometimes, man. Appreciate that. For people that are still listening. [Speaker 3] (1:07:29 - 1:07:38) I'll, I'll just close it out by saying my feeling and my sentiment is that when all's said and done, I think the media is going to begin to come around to the narrative that LeBron is the purely based. [Speaker 1] (1:07:39 - 1:07:39) And I don't disagree. [Speaker 3] (1:07:40 - 1:07:49) And even, and even the players based on accomplishment, based on longevity, based on, I mean, this dude goes another three, four years, like it's not even going to be a conversation. It's not going to be a conversation. [Speaker 2] (1:07:50 - 1:08:18) People thought Kareem's record was untouchable, you know, from a point standpoint, you know, and he's going to demolish it, you know, but again, this, this, this conversation in all sports goes to like, again, talent versus titles so often, you know, and like, I'm a Miami Dolphins fan. I the greatest pure passer we've seen, like just watching highlights, but he never won the ring, you know, if he won one or two rings, where would the narrative be? So anyways. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:08:18 - 1:08:22) All right. What next? How do we segue this? Segue. I love that I got that. [Speaker 2] (1:08:23 - 1:08:33) I'm just saying there's no other podcast in the world that's going to be talking about RFK Jr. and views on virus, no virus that goes straight into the conversation on who's the greatest basketball player of all time. [Speaker 1] (1:08:36 - 1:08:41) Like straight into it without any like proper transition or appointment. It's just like, all right, let's talk about this now. [Speaker 2] (1:08:42 - 1:08:49) I wonder who RFK Jr. thinks is the greatest basketball player of all time. So we should tweet that at him. He's a big sports guy, isn't he? [Speaker 1] (1:08:49 - 1:08:59) Who would you have to guess? Like, if I think he is actually. He'd probably say MJ. He'd say MJ. He totally would. Which I understand. I totally understand that. [Speaker 3] (1:08:59 - 1:08:59) I do too, man. [Speaker 1] (1:08:59 - 1:09:08) Well, I mean, talk to us about this Magic. Here's the segue to Magic Johnson. Right. Oh, I mean, you could talk about HIV AIDS now if you wanted to segue back. [Speaker 2] (1:09:08 - 1:09:14) Well, I love that. That's a topic that helped wake me up, you know, almost 20 years ago. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:09:14 - 1:09:39) Have you seen the article where it compared Freddie Mercury's outcomes with quote HIV AIDS versus Magic Johnson's? No, no, no. Was it based on like who took who took medication and who didn't? Absolutely. Yeah. Like it didn't come out till well after the fact when Magic started to get better and Freddie Mercury ended up fucking dying for him to come out and say very quietly behind the scenes that, yes, I stopped AZT. I think it was like. [Speaker 2] (1:09:40 - 1:09:47) Exactly, man. The people who died at early days, man, like they were on AZT and the people who didn't were the ones who were like, you know, fuck this shit. I mean, take it. [Speaker 1] (1:09:47 - 1:09:49) It's what Remdesivir is now. It's the same thing. [Speaker 3] (1:09:49 - 1:09:57) Do you guys think like, did he get a real diagnosis, Magic, or was like an agreement for him to be the poster boy to like push this? [Speaker 1] (1:09:57 - 1:09:58) I don't know. I have no idea. [Speaker 3] (1:09:58 - 1:09:58) I don't know. [Speaker 1] (1:09:59 - 1:10:14) I go back and forth on that type of stuff. When it comes to anything related to celebrities that reached that appeal, like even discussing whether some of the most well-known figures have actually received the shot. Like, do you guys think LeBron got the shot legit? Do you think he got the shot? [Speaker 2] (1:10:15 - 1:10:19) I don't, man. I don't know. But then again, with what happened to his son, you know, I don't really. [Speaker 1] (1:10:19 - 1:10:19) Exactly. [Speaker 3] (1:10:20 - 1:10:26) That's where I don't know, man. I don't know. I don't know. You're asking us to share our insider Gates story. What? [Speaker 2] (1:10:27 - 1:10:50) Our insider Gates story. Well, we had someone that we talked to off air who like was connected to someone who was tight with like, like his son was close to Bill Gates' son and they were at some event in like California and they were talking about vaccines and supposedly the son of Bill Gates. Again, we're just speculating here. It was saying that, oh yeah, we don't take that. We don't take this. But again, you know, I tend to think most of these people don't. [Speaker 3] (1:10:51 - 1:11:01) That's why I do not think LeBron, who is so meticulous about his health, about what goes in his body, about no chance. [Speaker 2] (1:11:01 - 1:11:11) And he was against it early on. Like his, his, his the things he was talking about seemed like he wasn't really for it. And then he did say, I think there was one thing where he said he did and I just didn't fully buy it. [Speaker 3] (1:11:11 - 1:11:19) He shared a Spider-Man meme at one point with in the two Spider-Mans pointing at each other, one being COVID, one being the flu on social media. [Speaker 2] (1:11:19 - 1:11:24) It was, it was the three Spider-Mans. It was like COVID, flu, common cold or something. [Speaker 3] (1:11:24 - 1:11:24) Something like that. [Speaker 2] (1:11:26 - 1:11:28) Where, um, it was early on. [Speaker 1] (1:11:28 - 1:11:38) That must have been in the NBA bubble when they were all getting pissed that they had to do any of that shit. They were like, why are we doing this? Like we wear the masks before the game. And then during the game, we're all sweating and breathing all over each other. And we take it off. [Speaker 2] (1:11:39 - 1:11:42) I think anyone with common sense is like, what the fuck are we doing? [Speaker 1] (1:11:42 - 1:11:42) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:11:42 - 1:11:51) What is this? And then you get to that level of prestige and money and connections. Like, you know, were they just throwing out, Oh, here's my fake vaccine card, you know? Okay, cool. I got it. [Speaker 1] (1:11:52 - 1:12:06) Well, you know this, like anyone that flew private, like had their own private jet or just flew on private, there are some like smaller private airlines companies. Um, you didn't have to do any of that bullshit. None of it. [Speaker 2] (1:12:07 - 1:12:08) Oh yeah. Yeah. You don't have to. [Speaker 1] (1:12:08 - 1:12:10) None of it. And all those dudes fly private. So they don't give a shit. [Speaker 2] (1:12:12 - 1:12:27) Yeah. I don't care. Well, it's interesting to think about, um, well you think about Aaron Rodgers, man. He's, he's, he's, uh, talking about some stuff and going on Pat McAfee show and just kind of like throwing Jimmy Kimmel and others under the bus. It's pretty wild, man. [Speaker 1] (1:12:28 - 1:12:34) Yeah, it is. Uh, I love Aaron Rodgers. I think he, he seems like he'd be a really funny guy and a really fun guy to talk to. [Speaker 2] (1:12:34 - 1:12:36) We're trying to get him on the podcast, but I know. [Speaker 1] (1:12:36 - 1:12:37) Have you reached out to him? [Speaker 2] (1:12:38 - 1:12:45) No, no. I mean, I don't, I don't have the contact. I know it's one person who knows him, but haven't really ventured down that just yet. [Speaker 3] (1:12:45 - 1:12:56) Yeah. I mean, is there, is there less control in the NFL? Cause I feel like if someone was talking about Epstein's list and throwing celebrities under the bus the way Rodgers is in the NBA, like there'd be a, there'd be a problem. [Speaker 1] (1:12:56 - 1:13:14) That's what I, that's what it seems like, man. It seems like there's less control in the NFL, which is also funny because I think Roger Goodell is a freaking moron and he can be pretty tyrannical with some of the stuff, but like the NFL players aren't allowed to criticize the refs. Like that's, that's crazy. They literally can't go on an interview and say like, yeah, the refs suck. [Speaker 2] (1:13:15 - 1:13:26) Yeah. Well, I think part of it is too, like at the end of the day in basketball, you're one of 12 on a single team or whatever, however many number, whereas football, you're one of a lot more. [Speaker 1] (1:13:26 - 1:13:27) That's true. You're drowned out. [Speaker 2] (1:13:27 - 1:13:33) You're dealing with so many more players. Yeah, that's a good point. And he's like on the tail end of his career. Like he's. [Speaker 1] (1:13:33 - 1:13:42) I also think NBA players overall and across the world tend to be more well-known than the, like if you took the top. [Speaker 2] (1:13:42 - 1:13:42) It's more global. [Speaker 1] (1:13:43 - 1:13:53) Yeah, it's more global. And if you took the top 10 NBA players and compared them to the top 10 NFL players, the NFL player, NBA players by far be more well-known around the world. [Speaker 2] (1:13:53 - 1:14:13) Dude, that's why I love to remember that press conference where Ronaldo rolls up and takes the Coca-Cola and just like throws it off and then picks up the water. He's like water, you know, like he's one of the most famous athletes in the whole world, you know, him, Messi. I mean, this is where soccer kind of takes the cake. They're the most popular athletes from a global standpoint. So like, I mean, doing that was, I thought, pretty huge. [Speaker 1] (1:14:14 - 1:14:36) Yeah, it's cool. That's where it's cool that I really respect people like Aaron Rodgers for doing what he's doing because it's sort of just like turning the needle a little bit more this way where people are starting to talk about that stuff. I mean, that's how people who are even more mainstream leaning know if you talk about like an ancestral diet in some circles, people be like, oh yeah, I know what that is. [Speaker 2] (1:14:36 - 1:14:38) Yeah, or dark room, dark room therapy. [Speaker 3] (1:14:38 - 1:14:53) I mean, look at the stance Novak took and how much publicity he did. I mean, he didn't go to two or three major grand slams. Yeah, exactly. His pro-choice position. But he's Illuminati. There's a picture of him in a magazine covering his eye. [Speaker 1] (1:14:53 - 1:15:24) People take that shit way too far. Like even saying Kyrie's Illuminati. I'm like, no, I just don't believe that. I don't believe it. And like knowing people who are freedom oriented, like me knowing them personally, people who are freedom oriented, who have friends who are like pretty big name celebrities that are outspoken a little bit about this stuff. Like for example, Woody Harrelson, people point to him and it's like he's talked about terrain a little bit publicly. I think it was on Bill, what's that dude's name? Bill Maher. [Speaker 2] (1:15:25 - 1:15:28) Yeah. Yeah. He also, he also did that opening in Saturday Night Live. [Speaker 1] (1:15:28 - 1:15:40) Yeah, exactly. It was just like, whoa. Whoa. Yeah. And people were like, oh, he's controlled op. And I'm like, I just don't believe every single one of them is controlled op and they're in on it. I don't believe that. It's stupid. It's just dumb to think that. [Speaker 3] (1:15:40 - 1:16:03) I know. We talked about this last time and it just seems. But to me, it's like, that means like you're holding this belief that like no one can like organically rise and be successful and become someone incredibly noteworthy unless there's some kind of assistance. Like that's such a fucking low self-esteem position in my opinion. [Speaker 1] (1:16:04 - 1:16:32) Totally agree. I totally agree. I think a lot of the people that do that are these smaller accounts that are frustrated that they haven't grown. So because they haven't grown and they think their shit don't stink, they're like, oh, it can't possibly be that these other people have grown and I haven't. How is that possible? So then they automatically assume that those people are controlled op position. That's what I think it is. Because it tends to be these like smaller, like a thousand follower, like Twitter accounts with no name and no face that are saying this shit. [Speaker 3] (1:16:33 - 1:16:38) Yeah. What should we call this episode? Viruses in basketball? You know, I love basketball. [Speaker 1] (1:16:39 - 1:16:53) You know what you should do? You should name it something that's like a super, super appealing title that like that has nothing to do with the episode and then say the last half of this episode is a must listen. Alec reveals some information. [Speaker 2] (1:16:54 - 1:16:57) Yeah, that is like important for the future of humanity. [Speaker 1] (1:16:58 - 1:17:09) That's what you should say. It's like something like, I don't know, like breaking news. I don't know. Something funny. I don't know. This was fun. I love talking to you guys because it's always just a conversation. It doesn't even feel like we're being recorded. [Speaker 2] (1:17:10 - 1:17:12) No, no, it's fun, man. It's fun. [Speaker 3] (1:17:12 - 1:17:35) Oh, I reckon, I think like legitimately and seriously, like this time that we're living through is like, it's not normal. Like, obviously it's not normal. Like it's incredibly, incredibly turbulent, man. Like I don't think that's like, you know, without being pessimistic, because like I'm not that, I believe that we're always up to the challenge, but I think there's fucking challenges coming. [Speaker 1] (1:17:36 - 1:17:41) 100%. Yeah. I have a question on that real quick, though, before we sign off. [Speaker 3] (1:17:41 - 1:17:42) Yeah, we're good. [Speaker 1] (1:17:42 - 1:17:44) We got time. This is my podcast now. So, um. [Speaker 2] (1:17:44 - 1:17:45) No, please, man. Ask us questions. [Speaker 1] (1:17:46 - 1:18:10) What do you guys think about the idea that much of that, though, like much of the idea that, oh, 2024 is going to be fucking crazy. Not all of it, because, you know, there's nuance in this statement or this question. What if a lot of that is we're being set up to perpetuate and bring that reality into existence by continually focusing on it? [Speaker 3] (1:18:10 - 1:18:19) Yeah. But like to me, like beyond that, just observing what's happening in the economic landscape and the political landscape. [Speaker 1] (1:18:19 - 1:18:21) And the election coming up this year. [Speaker 3] (1:18:21 - 1:18:35) Like with rationality, observing it, it's like there's instability. We're living through instability. Like to me, that's the reality. And to me, it hasn't reached a conclusion yet. It doesn't look like it's moving forward. [Speaker 1] (1:18:35 - 1:18:43) It feels like a bubble that is ready to pop. That's what it feels like, that it's continuing to grow. How big is this bubble going to get before it pops? Holy shit. That's what it feels like. [Speaker 3] (1:18:44 - 1:19:09) And I can make that observation and I can say that without it tainting or dimming or darkening my personal life and my personal reality. To me, it's rational to have a bit of foresight and be like, I'm not going to pretend like that miracle is going to happen. And the entire global collective landscape is going to be smooth sailing because I don't actually think that. [Speaker 1] (1:19:09 - 1:20:10) To be clear, I don't think that either. But what I'm asking more specifically, and you two don't buy into this. You understand that irrespective of what's coming, I'm going to be fucking good because I dictate my own reality. And all of these trials and tribulations that are coming are just going to sharpen me more. You guys get that. But I think what a lot of people, like the more truther accounts, right, that are like, I saw this post yesterday that someone made that said, we're only two days into 2024. And here's all the shit that's already happened. And it's just like. It's clickbait. It's clickbait bullshit. Yeah. And it's also conditioning people to accept that like, oh, 2024 is going to be wild. But it's like a subtle sentiment of it's going to be wild and we're fucked. And I need to be afraid and I need to be uncertain or I need to be afraid of the uncertainty. Like I'm fucked. You know what I mean? There's a difference there between like, hey, it's going to be a bumpy ride, but I'm up for the fucking challenge and I'm excited for it. [Speaker 2] (1:20:11 - 1:21:11) Yeah, I agree with you there, man. I think that's where it comes. Like we can sit here and say, oh, what's going to happen? You know, there's some things on the horizon. People are talking about potential civil war. But like, it's not. I'm still going to keep living my life. I'll deal with that if it happens. But like, I'm not. It's not impacting my nervous system. I'm not like, oh my God, what's going to happen? You know, I got to go dig out like, you know, 30 foot by 30 foot, put in a bunker and get ready for atomic warfare. Like, I'm not doing that. Some people are cool. I mean, shit, if it happens, then they're they're doing their thing. And we're dead, but whatever, you know, but yeah, man, again, I think mindset's important in how you go about your day to day. Like I agree with what Joel said, like having the awareness of things that could happen. Because if you're observing things like shit's already hit in the fan, shit's been hit in the fan, shit's going to continue to hit the fan to the degree that it is. So I don't know, man. I don't really pay too much mind to it. Like I said earlier, if it all shows up, I'll deal with it. I'll be real as well. [Speaker 3] (1:21:12 - 1:21:35) And like, I don't want to scare anyone because obviously 22 million plus people live there. But for me, like living in Australia, like I had concerns because I have the awareness, I have the foresight that this isn't over. I'm seeing that Australia, New Zealand, Canada, these countries, they are, you know, pretty much to me, the testing grounds for what's being rolled out. [Speaker 1] (1:21:35 - 1:21:41) There are already a couple steps ahead on the agenda and leaning more towards a totalitarian system. [Speaker 3] (1:21:42 - 1:22:05) But I felt uncomfortable there and I made a decision to shift and I put myself in positions where I was able to shift and like my nervous system doesn't feel impacted being here where I am now in Mexico. But I would personally, to be honest, I would have concerns if I was, I would have inner things which would have had to navigate, mind you, ultimately acceptance, you know. [Speaker 1] (1:22:05 - 1:22:26) Well it's also the reality of the people around you though, right? Like that's the other thing is I would imagine relative to Australia being over here in North America, you feel more held. You feel held because it's like, I know that there are people around me who get it a little bit more than what was commonplace in Australia, right? [Speaker 3] (1:22:28 - 1:23:06) Yeah. I mean, I'm not a 20 hour flight away from, you know, 25 hour flight away from this community in this network as well, you know, which it's a very, very isolated place. I mean, I love Australia. I love the country. I love the spirit of Australia. But, you know, to me, the government is not indicative of that by any means whatsoever. So I don't want anyone to take what I'm saying the wrong way. But if more global, turbulent, organized events were to happen, to me, my rationality says that these particular countries are going to be impacted first and hardest. [Speaker 1] (1:23:07 - 1:23:08) Yeah, I'd agree. [Speaker 2] (1:23:09 - 1:23:26) I'm just really curious to see what's going to go on leading up to this election, man. Like, you know, like again, not that I put stock in it, but like from a political theater standpoint, what people talk about, like, I think that's what's going to be insane and wild and crazy, like in this country and who knows what's going to happen in that regard. [Speaker 3] (1:23:26 - 1:23:32) I'm very, very curious with the Trump narrative. Very, very curious, you know, what's going to unfold there. [Speaker 1] (1:23:32 - 1:23:50) I look at it like it's a show, a production, like it's an exciting production. I'm like, I'm excited to see the season finale of this political shit storm that we've been in for the last, I mean, for a long ass time, but really, you know, the last eight years. [Speaker 2] (1:23:51 - 1:23:54) Some people watch football and some people are into the entertainment of politics, you know. [Speaker 3] (1:23:55 - 1:24:10) Right. So it's a weird, it's a weird ass show with many, many, very many layers and threads, like even like the whole, like, did they stage a rigged election? Like that's some serious thinking to be like, let's make them think that we rigged an election. [Speaker 1] (1:24:10 - 1:24:11) Yeah. [Speaker 3] (1:24:11 - 1:24:11) You know? [Speaker 1] (1:24:12 - 1:24:39) Yeah. Well, I think it's even deeper than that. So first off, as you know, like the presidents are all selected, not elected, right? Like that's already there, but then to make them, I see what you're saying. I think you're saying that on top of that, that already being the case, but they believe is this way, but then we put a layer up and we like, we want to show them that we are rigging it and to sort of demoralize them. [Speaker 3] (1:24:41 - 1:24:46) Got it. Like, if that's what's happening, like, you know, I don't know. [Speaker 1] (1:24:46 - 1:25:46) I think that's what 2020 was, is it was like, I question the integrity of every election ever. Right. I mean, we could go on rabbit holes surrounding the emergency banking act, the federal, the bankers actually controlling all presidents, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But like, I think 2020 was intended to demoralize people who believed that Trump was our only savior. Likewise. I don't know what's going to happen, but I could see where people believe RFK and, or Trump are our only saviors right now, or any of these other candidates and like some sort of demoralization that like, I've heard some people say possibly that there wouldn't be any election whatsoever because of some catastrophic emergency. And then people who believe again, that Trump or RFK are our only savior, like, oh, we're so fucked. It's all psyop. It's all psyop to make us think that, you know, they have any power over us to begin with. [Speaker 3] (1:25:46 - 1:26:05) And you know, like the other thing, like listening to like Vivek and hearing Vivek speak, like he's a fucking likable dude, you know, like he speaks the libertarian, you know, concept very, very, very well. It seems more intellectual than anyone we've ever seen has so much more articulation and finesse. You know. [Speaker 1] (1:26:05 - 1:26:07) I've been trying to get him on my show. I really want to. [Speaker 3] (1:26:09 - 1:26:17) It's like, is he another plant? Is he just fucking playing a show, playing a role out of the act? Like the same thing with the Argentinian guy too. [Speaker 1] (1:26:18 - 1:27:27) Yeah. See this. I go back and forth on that. I don't know. I don't know what I think about it. But see, the thing is, I can only speak to what I know about the way the U.S. government is set up. Yeah. And I kind of hinted towards it at the beginning, but there is the U.S. government. And then there is the United States of America. There is the U.S. And then there is the United States of America. And they're two completely different nations that are coexisting, that we're interfacing with both all the time without understanding that we're interfacing with both. And the president of the United States is simply just essentially the CEO of the corporate entity that is the U.S. government that is a subsidiary of the U.K. government. I know I'm kind of leaving that with a cliffhanger because we got to end soon, but knowing at the least how our system is set up, I think that all elections are completely illegitimate and it's all a big show in the United States, at least. Now, when it comes to Argentina, I don't know. And that dude's been doing some shit where I'm like, whoa. He's reducing government. Yeah. Which is awesome. Fucking awesome. [Speaker 2] (1:27:28 - 1:27:38) Yeah. We'll see what happens. We'll see how that unfolds a few years down the road based on his decisions he's making. But a lot of things to contemplate, a lot of things to consider. [Speaker 3] (1:27:39 - 1:27:58) Stay curious. Stay curious. Don't become dogmatic about anything. And be open to everything, in my opinion. I don't mean be open to everything, like be an open fucking. But I mean, just be open to being surprised. Yeah, I love that. [Speaker 1] (1:27:58 - 1:28:04) I love how you lived the mental thought you had in your head, like, wait, whoa, whoa. You probably thought of something or like, I don't want to be open to that. [Speaker 3] (1:28:05 - 1:28:08) And I get the clip. I love watching these dudes. Be open to everything. [Speaker 1] (1:28:11 - 1:28:19) And then hand checking his waist. And then me saying, I love Kobe. I love. I love dudes and I love Kobe. [Speaker 2] (1:28:21 - 1:29:48) Yeah. Listen, I think it's the stuff that we talk about all the time, obviously, with Joel and I are about and what I'm about is man, like, handle your shit. Get your house in order. Do what you need to do. Take a look in the mirror. You know, how do you feel about yourself? You know, what needs to be done? How's your health? How's your mind? Like, what's your purpose? You know, like you should be focusing on that more, whether or not you caught the, you know, every single episode of some, you know, conspiracy Trump YouTube video. Amen, man. You know what I mean? Like, just be real, man. Be real with yourself. Like, what do you want to do? The world could collapse around you, but what do you have control over? You don't have control over what the fuck's going to happen around the election, around this, around that, global war, what's happening on the other side of the world, you know, but you have control over you and your life and what's happening within your family and your community. How much time and energy are you putting towards that? Amen. Like, it's like you have to keep saying the same thing over and over again. And it doesn't mean like you can't, you know, what are you interested about? Oh, what's going on here? Cool. Especially if it aligns with your work and your profession. But if like, if your life and the way you make a living, like, has nothing to do with all this shit that you're spending hours a day distracting yourself with, like, what the fuck? Amen, man. I mean. Very well said. Very well said. This seems like a lot of a waste of time. [Speaker 1] (1:29:49 - 1:30:36) Yeah, and I think that's why I don't feel called to like be on social media as much lately. Like, I'm just like, I go through spurts where I have like stream of consciousness and I like want to say some things, but then for the most part lately, I don't feel called to be on it as much. I'm not saying as much because I'm just like, just seems like fucking useless, just a waste of my time right now. And in the way the world is right now, it just seems like a waste of my time. Like, I think everyone could benefit from stepping away from it. And especially those who are immersed in the truth or space, like, dude, go outside, like, or do something that you love to do. Like, I love watching football. I've been playing pickup basket. Like, I love doing those things. And I'm reintroducing those things into my life now because they provide value to me. [Speaker 2] (1:30:37 - 1:31:00) And it ebbs and flows, you know, this idea of like, like creating and being motivated. Like, it doesn't, it's not always there 100%. You have to understand the own rhythms of your own body, of your psyche and go, you know what? Now's not the time. Maybe there will be a time later on, but if you're putting this like pressure on yourself to be a certain way and come across a certain way and act a certain way all the time, it's just not ideal. It's not healthy. [Speaker 3] (1:31:00 - 1:31:05) No one can perform. No one can perform endlessly. 24. Like, it's not. No way, bro. Nothing in nature does that even. [Speaker 2] (1:31:07 - 1:31:08) No, no chance. [Speaker 3] (1:31:09 - 1:31:11) Yeah. All right, brother. Love you, man. [Speaker 2] (1:31:11 - 1:31:21) I love you guys. I love you too, man. Talk about what's going on. Obviously you got Confluence. It's coming up in April. You're a part of, I love what that's about. End of COVID. Feel free to share anything with our audience. [Speaker 1] (1:31:22 - 1:31:41) Yeah. So Confluence coming up in April, pretty incredible event. For those who've been to Music in Sky, I'd imagine a lot of your listeners have been to Music in Sky. It's very similar to Music in Sky, actually. A little bit more, a little bit of an older crowd was at Confluence this last time. Would you agree with that? You're awesome most, but still an awesome event with music. [Speaker 2] (1:31:41 - 1:31:45) A little bit more of that kind of chill farm, kind of farm vibe too, you know, which was cool. [Speaker 1] (1:31:45 - 1:33:03) Different. I mean, we have DJ sets and stuff coming up this year and we're, Joel, I got to get back to you, but we're still talking through whether we have enough artist spots available, but Joel might be rapping at this one. So we'll see. I got some new tracks, bro. Huh? I got some new tracks in the works. Yeah, I got to make the case for you to be there. But it's an awesome event. And then other than that, we're just dialing in our platform. So in 2024, I think Katie, my business partner, just sent this email out to our list. Actually, all the things that I shared earlier about chapters and things like this, we're working on that becoming an unincorporated religious society where we will have no relationship with the government, be fully private membership association. And we'll be dialing in our education on our platform to, again, Joel, you said it perfectly and that's what it is. It's not giving you tools to help you fight for your freedom. It's education to help you understand you're already free and learning how to express that freedom that is inherent to you and then helping you on your journey of becoming more whole and healthy. So that's where we'll be dialing in our education for 2024. And then, of course, you can find that at thewayforward.com. So that's it. [Speaker 3] (1:33:03 - 1:33:22) Awesome, man. Love it. Guys, wayforward.com. We'll drop that in the show notes as well. You guys know about Alec. He's doing amazing work and looking forward to having other conversations. Love being connected to you, bro. And iron sharpens iron and we continue this journey and I'm excited for the future holds. Love you guys. Peace. Much love, bro.