Dr. Richard Massey & Natasha Nazerali The Beauty of Biology

Joel 00:00:06.800 - 00:01:41.420 Two returning guests today together for the first time on Here for the Truth, we have Natasha Nazar Ali back for her fourth time. Many of you know her story. She grew up inside Germany medicine. Her mother found harm as five biological laws over 20 years ago and taught them at the kitchen table. When Natasha was a kid, she was a professional dancer before her father's death in 2020 turned her towards this work fully. And she calls her work biological relating the five laws woven with family systems and ancestry. If you've previously heard her on the Biological Woman episode with Melissa Sell, the Heroine's Journey and In Defense of German New Medicine. And joining us as well today is the incredible Dr. Richard Massey, episode 290. And as described by our audience, consistently, one of the most moving conversations we've had is the feedback that we get from that episode. He's an anesthesiologist for decades. He walked out of the operating room in 1997, lost his medical license in 2009, and that's what ultimately led him to recall healing and family constellations. And he spent 26 years looking at blood under a microscope. And he says he's never once seen seen an exception. Everybody's healing all the time. So Natasha kind of inherited this work. Richard lost the whole career to find it, and they both ended up in the same place, which is a beautiful thing. This conversation is very much centered around this idea of Germany medicine meeting family constellation. It's just an honor to have you both with us here today. Welcome back. Natasha 00:01:43.020 - 00:01:44.220 Thank you so much. Richard 00:01:45.100 - 00:01:46.460 Thank you. Thank you. Yerasimos 00:01:47.910 - 00:02:03.110 All right, so listen, well, first of all, let's do a brief check in. Let's do a brief check in with each one of you. How have you been? What's going on on your lives? I feel like there's a lot of movement happening for both of you. And so, yeah, feel free to anyone jump in. Natasha 00:02:04.310 - 00:03:46.840 Well, I just got the real privilege to spend some time with Dr. Massey this summer in Austin. So that was really lovely because we connected at Confluence. And what a strange, you know, kismet fate that you have three very distinct niches of not only just German new medicine and Hellinger's family constellations, but recall healing, which is very, very rare. And so when I immediately saw that there was this amazing doctor who also specializes in these three niches that I do, I said, I have to meet him. And so we just clicked right away at Confluence. And then I got to spend some deeper time, you know, just exchanging our own wisdom. And this work can really be your own art. Right? So Each facilitator has their own way that they convey and that they share it. And just like spending time with Richard, he checked my blood, put it under the microscope, and even that was such a phenomenal experience because here I have had my brain scan read right, so I can validate to Richard what he's seeing at the blood level. That, yes, that was present in my CT scan as well. So we almost did a little research with one another that way, and that was incredibly helpful. And, yeah, we did some facilitation at Casa de Luz. Got to experience that. And it's just really lovely to sort of synergize this information also to the next generation and pass it on. Yerasimos 00:03:47.560 - 00:03:55.720 That's awesome. Okay, doc, so real quickly, let us know all of Natasha's issues. We need to air out all her dirty laundry on this episode right now. Richard 00:03:56.840 - 00:03:59.720 Yeah, you can find. Find it on my sub stack. Yerasimos 00:04:00.040 - 00:04:07.640 Okay, perfect. So, yeah, we'll just pass the mic over to you, doc, you know, to share whatever you want to share and then we'll see where this conversation goes. Richard 00:04:09.170 - 00:05:24.630 Okay. Well, that was a great time with Natasha and. And thank you, Natasha. It still is. So she'll call me every now and then. It's really funny. She'll call me when I'm. When my train is almost off the rails. So, like, Annette has been gone for two weeks now. She went off to a destination wedding in Spain, walked the Camino, and doesn't seem to miss me as much as I'd like for her to do. You know, like, she. She's, like, having fun without me. Not that that bothers me or anything. And so there'll be times when I'll just, like, be like, oh, I'm going this way. And then. Then the phone will ring and I'll, oh, it's Natasha. And she'll say something and I'll get right back on track. And, you know, you gotta have friends. Especially when the train starts to go off the track. It's nice to have some friends. So the last two weeks has had some crying, some primal screaming, some nervous breakthroughs, dental, and a sinus surgery, you know? Yeah, I, you know, those kind of things. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, today's a good day. Yerasimos 00:05:24.950 - 00:05:25.950 Yeah, it is a good day. Joel 00:05:25.950 - 00:05:26.150 We. Yerasimos 00:05:26.150 - 00:06:05.850 We get a chance to gather. I just love how. I just love how open and vulnerable you are, doc. And just like the journey you've been on in your life and to just sit here and to say something so profound that I think a lot of people forget, you know, like, we can do all this work, and we can quote, unquote, like, have it, let's say, together, and have this knowledge and wisdom. But we're human beings and we ride the waves and we go in and out, and, like, we don't have it all figured out. We still feel, we still suffer. You know, we still go off the rails. And, like, the beauty of connection and having friends and community is. Is just a. Is a requirement. You know, it's just. That's just how we're built as humans. Yeah. Richard 00:06:07.050 - 00:06:44.380 Yes. Yeah, I agree. And. And, you know, that's why the first thing I share with other people and I get to share with myself when this is going on is change the I word to we. So we're going off the rails because of this happened. Not just me, it's manifesting in my life, but the energy for going off the rails in this situation has been in the family for a while. So the issue is to look at that. So I did a constellation last night, another one on my dad's parents, and learned something completely new again. So it was quite beautiful. Joel 00:06:46.060 - 00:06:46.700 Can we. Yerasimos 00:06:47.150 - 00:06:48.830 Here you go, Joel. And then I want to ask something. Joel 00:06:49.550 - 00:07:17.990 No worries. Sorry. You were a bit frozen, so I don't know if you were getting ready to say something or not. I think Natasha said something, which might be an interesting place to start, which is that you guys kind of have two different ways of seeing the same thing. Obviously, GNM through CT scans, hema foci, Richard through the blood. What is the crossover? Would you guys read the same clients and see the same thing? What would be the differences that you guys might observe through these different methodologies? Richard 00:07:19.670 - 00:07:21.590 So which one of y' all want to volunteer? Yerasimos 00:07:23.590 - 00:07:24.870 I'll always volunteer. Richard 00:07:25.110 - 00:07:25.750 Let's go. Natasha 00:07:26.150 - 00:09:55.960 Well, I'm happy to share what I noticed, Right. Because that was one of the. One of the reasons why we also got together and wanted to do it, because it is rare to have a CT scan reading because there are only so many practitioners and doctors around the world who are able to do it. So that was really interesting to see how it lined up. And what I noticed the most is through reading the brain scan, it's very accurate. It pinpoints exactly what your compulsive behaviors are, your entire medical history. But what I loved about analyzing the blood is it's a beautiful snapshot of where you are right now. So the first thing Richard said to me was, oh, my goodness, are you in a major healing? And it's really beautiful because you're watching your blood live, reconnect. And rebuild. Right. So with my blood, you know, wasn't so much in conflict activity where there would have been more gaps of white. I hope I'm explaining this correctly, Richard. But you could see it was almost like this beautiful tapestry of threads that were weaving together that we're coming back to wholeness again. And so that process of also being able to witness, to have this really beautiful, tangible picture that you can look at in the middle of your journey, which I definitely knew I was in a large healing process, but to see the blood in that way and then to have it validated, and then there was even certain programs that Richard could pick up on. You know, I have a little myocardium program running of the heart, which is an overwhelm conflict. And then, you know, I talk so much about the feminine conflicts and how the reproductive organs of the female are also connected to the coronary veins of the heart. This idea that we're pulling on the heartstrings, and so Richard could see everything, said, oh, we've got things going on in the heart. He could see, you know, the abandonment conflict, the kct, and he. We could see that through the way the rings were moving on the outside of my blood. So it was. It was really profound to have something that you can offer a client as they're working through something to see what is going on not only internally in my psyche, in the soul, but in my bloodline. Joel 00:09:56.840 - 00:09:57.880 Yeah. Does this. Yerasimos 00:09:57.880 - 00:10:12.620 Does this blood work have a specific official name? Because I feel like I've heard from different places, Like, I know the Bigglesons do, you know, live blood or blood analysis. I'm curious what the differences are or there. There aren't any here. Richard 00:10:12.860 - 00:10:56.010 So one of the first things I want to say that took a very long time for me to sort of get this is, you know, I poke a finger to get a little droplet, and then we put it on the slides. If you draw blood, you draw it out of the vein. But when I poke a finger, it ruptures a number of blood capillaries and lymphatic capillaries because they're all intertwined together. So the droplet is actually a reading of blood and lymph. It's all mixed together, and it's the only test for lymphatics that I know of. Like, nothing else really looks. We. We don't even talk about the lymph system in medical school. Yerasimos 00:10:56.170 - 00:11:01.210 I mean, I don't think I've ever heard anyone talking about, like, I'm gonna get your lymph Analyzed. Richard 00:11:01.210 - 00:13:16.900 I know, right, right. So, you know, so it's really interesting to get that view of the lymph. Joel and I were talking before how it fits into Yalls program that you offer the self esteem and the wrath program. Because the lymph tells the story of what I inherited in the womb and during infancy. What program is up here dictating to me how valuable I'm allowed to feel in this life? So the lymphatics tell the story of what they call devaluation is one of the words that's used in German new medicine. How valuable do I feel? How valuable am I allowed to feel and still be part of the family? Right. So that's where we get into constellations and things. But it was beautiful to have Natasha there and say that she was seeing similar things on the brain scan. That was my first time to get that kind of feedback. What I have done in lieu of brain scans, because you know me, you know, it's kind of like illegal to practice or something to practice German new medicine here. Like, like bad things can happen, you know, people find out. So. So I didn't have somebody to read brain scans, so. But I found the heart biofeedback and the blood and you know, with the recall healing timelines and family tree, honestly, people will come in and tell me what the story is if I'll just sit back and listen. They all actually tell me what the story is and then we get to experiment and see what they want to do about it. The thing I enjoy most really about talking with Natasha is she sees the beauty of biology and what a shame to go through this life in this incarnation and not notice the beauty of biology. So anyway, I think I got off track there. Maybe I answered sort of what you were asking. Yerasimos 00:13:18.680 - 00:13:49.610 Yeah, no, well, I guess I'm. I'm curious. Well, first off, I think we might have touched on it in a previous episode, but since it's been brought up, just like explaining a bit of recall healing, you know, and what it is. And also based on the lymph, when you talked about self devaluation, like what are you exactly seeing in the lymph that then is registering for you based on the work that you've done, where you go, oh, this is how you relate to yourself. This is how you view value, self value in the world. Like, I'm curious more of the specifics on that. Richard 00:13:50.970 - 00:15:50.820 Yeah. So on the. And it's on the dry blood and, and basically this dry blood lymph droplet, we're just basically microscopically watching the same thing that happened if you skinned your elbow. But it looks more scientific if you have a doctor looking through a microscope at a little small piece of this process, you know, And, I mean, this is going on inside of us everywhere, all the time. We're making and breaking down these little clumps of fluid, these little clots. Right. You're going on all the time. And so you get to see the magnificence of it on a big tv, you know, like a movie or something, like, wow, look, I'm healing. And you can see everybody's heart is happy. And so if your heart is in good coherence, you know, magnetically lined up with the earth, your program doesn't have much of a chance to continue, because the magnetism of the earth plus your heart, the program goes, okay, I give up. You know, I'll come over and listen to you guys for a little while, you know, otherwise there's this big loyalty pulling them backwards, you know, but they'll line up. If the heart lines up with the earth, what we see on the little blood droplets, and I'll send you some photos, and you can look at them yourself or put them there in the show notes, in the middle of the droplet, there are these white lines that look like spokes on the. On a wheel. And when they have these little things that Natasha was talking about, these little stitches that are stitching everything back together, where these white lines interrupted things, they're going to get stitched back together. When we see that, we know that somebody's doing a healing in their lymph system and their sense of value is coming up as they do that. It means that they solved a value conflict in their life. It'd be interesting to watch people come to Yalls program if we could get their droplets before. Yerasimos 00:15:50.900 - 00:15:51.620 Before and after. Joel 00:15:52.100 - 00:15:53.300 We already collect their blood. Richard 00:15:53.940 - 00:15:57.750 I just laugh everywhere, you know. Yeah, it'd be fun to watch. Yerasimos 00:15:57.750 - 00:17:04.169 Yeah. We require everyone to send us 10 milliliters of their blood before every rise of the program. That's amazing. I mean, I don't know. I just. I just keep coming back to this idea of just like, you know, you know, allopathy has its. Has its place, you know, in certain situations. But like, to think of all the education and all the money invested in this system, in this paradigm, you having gone through it and been in it for a long time, and then coming to this place of this completely new understanding, more deep, more holistic, more esoteric, let's be honest, you know, I wouldn't call it very materialistic, in a sense, yes. You're working with blood in certain situations. And then Natasha here, growing up with this knowledge, you know, you have no letters after your name. You know, you just are a human being understanding again. The phrase Doc, Doc Massey used, the beauty of biology, growing up with this knowledge and then making the claim like, this is who I am and this is what I'm going to bring into the world. Joel 00:17:04.570 - 00:17:13.690 Yeah, I kind of. I love that phrase. And I saw Natasha light up when you said it as well. So I kind of want to ask you both, maybe we'll start with Natasha. What do you wish more people knew about their biology? Natasha 00:17:16.630 - 00:18:32.480 Well, I wish more people understood that it is the gateway to being able to know yourself at the deepest level. So this is really our biology is what connects us with the entire world around us and all the ancestors who ever came before and all the ancestors that will ever come after. So it's almost like a sacred code within your biology. It's carrying the messages and it's also allowing you to respond to the way in which you are perceiving life. So this is the vessel that we have that allows us to enter this reality and then we will also leave it behind. And speaking of, you know, this work being esoteric, I really do believe that, you know, these are. Are the vessels that God created. So when you're understanding biology and nature, it is biologos, it is the study of life. So you more so are deeply understanding life at a more profound level and the way in which you relate to it. Joel 00:18:33.200 - 00:19:36.510 Yeah, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. You know, it's interesting. I think it's Schelling that has this quote that nature is spirit made visible and spirit is invisible nature. And it's like we so often forget that, like, we are nature, you know, and so like to just dismiss even the material as the material. Like, isn't this the physical expression of the soul happening in real time constantly, which we have this opportunity to connect with and observe. Yet even within New Age spiritual circles, it's like this reductionism when it comes to the material, this rejection of the material, of the body, of one day I'm just going to be this floating spirit somewhere else, then I'll be more spiritual then. But like, you have this physical way of observing your spirituality right now in your own being, every single moment of every single day. Yeah, Richard, I'll pass the. I'll pass the mic to you, man, for the same question. What do you wish more people knew about your biology and Anything that you might want to add or respond to from what Natasha said. Richard 00:19:40.670 - 00:21:52.730 Okay, so my part, My part in this man noticed a few months ago. And I'd shared this before, the word diagnostic, and I, for some reason, broke it in half that day. And the first word is die, and then the second word is agnostic. And the diagnostic label that I would give someone as a doctor was an offer that their body part could die and they would be agnostic and not know why it was happening, just like I didn't know why it was happening. You know, so we could both be agnostics. We could both have parts of ourselves die. So even though it's scientifically, narrowly correct, there is a bigger view, as both of you have just said, the love story that's underneath everything. So everything is a love story, and everything is a story of beauty. Finding that perspective is what shifts everything for us. Staying in the Western commerce model, we. We thank everybody for their participation in keeping commerce going. You know, that was sarcastic. And to find the story of love and beauty is really the quest because it's there right in front of us. I see it every time I put people's blood under the scope. I see it every time I put a heart monitor on someone. They start telling me their real story, and their heart just lights up. I love it when people actually get the love story. Those are my favorite moments. When they realize that what they've done in their life that they judged themselves so harshly for was actually done out of love for their mom or dad or grandma or grandpa. They had never seen it before. And in that moment, they have a heart connection with that person in their family, and it changes whatever problem they had into something good for them. Yerasimos 00:21:56.010 - 00:21:57.330 You want to add something, Natasha? Natasha 00:21:57.330 - 00:23:47.990 Well, I just want to add that the beauty of that is when you experience that and you align with that love story that you are now fully able to see and witness and bring into your awareness, then you understand the perfection of it. So the system is never broken, but it's faithful. And that works for your family system, but it also works for your biology too, right? So the themes that are manifesting in the family is out of loyalty. And that identity that you created in the role that you are serving primes the psyche to experience the conflict in the manner in which you do that created the subsequent system. So understanding German new medicine is seeing that, of course I have this symptom. It's exactly perfect that I have this symptom. It is solving my problem and it is serving a function. And when you dive into the family system and you see the love story that's there. You also understand the beauty of the perfection of that, that even the role you are serving out of loyal is absolutely perfect. And so the truth statements that we use, it's actually not about saying the most sweet or kind thing or loving thing. It's about saying the most honest thing. So, you know, an affirmation will push against reality. If I'm saying something beautiful and loving, it could be an affirmation, but it could be an affirmation that's resisting the reality, the nature of. Of what actually is. Whereas a truth statement is highlighting directly what is here now and the honesty of that. So that's what I find really, really beautiful about the work. Yerasimos 00:23:48.390 - 00:23:50.950 So pretty much your work is all about being here for the truth. Natasha 00:23:51.350 - 00:23:51.830 Yeah. Richard 00:23:53.110 - 00:23:55.110 Oh, wow. Nice. Nice. Joel 00:23:55.510 - 00:24:46.220 Well, I mean, truth is love. Love is truth is the conclusion that I think most people end up arriving at. Further down this rabbit hole you go, I want to kind of ask you a question that kind of intertwines into, like, on a personal level, for me, obviously many people know I tend to go against the status quo. I guess I could be described as a black sheep, etc. Growing up, I never wanted to be this way. And I only turned to this direction because I felt as though my family started moving away from the map that I was handed. And I feel like to an extent, I decided to stick to the map. And so my loyalty, like it for me, being the black sheep and going against the status quo, in some ways I see how it's actually me being loyal to the blueprint that I was handed because I feel the blueprint that I was handed started being drifted away as I was growing up. Does that, does that make sense? Richard 00:24:48.620 - 00:24:49.620 Well, what's the blueprint? Yerasimos 00:24:49.620 - 00:24:51.980 What's the blueprint initially? What's the initial blueprint? Joel 00:24:52.760 - 00:25:15.080 Well, I feel like the values that I raised, that I was raised on, I feel like other people started drifting with those values. And I feel like in some ways I stayed true to those values and at some point decided that I had to separate myself from the unit in some capacity in order to remain loyal to the original values that I feel I was personally. Yerasimos 00:25:15.800 - 00:25:22.720 Natasha, didn't you have a post recently talking about like. Like not using those terms, like, like breaking the cycle or black sheep or something. Natasha 00:25:23.920 - 00:26:12.870 So if I may offer something, our family is our first system of belonging. So the most important thing in nature and also within the family lineage is that I know where I belong. So if I adopt A label that I am the black sheep, then I am adopting the label that I don't belong. And so life will reveal to me all the ways in which I don't belong. Same thing if I say I'm the cycle breaker, that systemically can distort the hierarchy a little bit because it means that it's up to me to solve the consequences of actions for other people in the family line. Richard 00:26:13.160 - 00:26:13.320 So. Natasha 00:26:13.630 - 00:27:04.490 So I like to say to restore the order of love and bring you back into your system of belonging, it is better to take your rightful place and say, I will be the one to restore the love. Everybody belongs here, and everyone is in their rightful place. And do you see how that's a lot more empowering and has a sense of humility, of, I am the little one, and the ancestors that came before me, they are the big ones. And if I say, no, no, no, no, I'm the black sheep, I remove myself from them, I distance myself from them, and then therefore, I distance myself from the flow of love that I could receive for them. If I brought myself a little closer and if I took a more humble position to say, no, I am the little one, you are the big one. Joel 00:27:04.890 - 00:27:45.080 Yeah, no, I totally hear you. And, like, to be honest, internally, I don't really feel like a black sheep. I use that phrase. That's something that people can identify with. And ultimately, I see that the path that I'm walking is the path of ultimate healing for my family, and I see that having its impact in. In that way as well. Like, I don't know, I feel like in some ways, like, ultimately my life. And I don't want to sound arrogant, but will be like a reminder or a little beacon to, like, oh, yeah, this is. This is who we are to. To some kind of degree. And I kind of see that playing out a little bit already. I don't know if that makes sense. Natasha 00:27:49.720 - 00:27:51.800 Richard, you have something to add on that? Richard 00:27:53.640 - 00:30:44.710 So when I. I'm thinking of a story, actually, and it was a story of a. A young woman whose grandmother brought her in. She had heard that I was just learning family constellations and had a Christian TV show out in Texas, and she thought maybe this guy will see the pattern. So she brings her granddaughter in, who is dying from what medical people called idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura. It's abbreviated ITP So you can speak it. And it's where the spleen is destroying all your platelets. And when your platelets get destroyed, you can't make Blood clots and you bleed to death. So this granddaughter has a toddler child. And the grandma remembered that when she was a toddler that age, her mother died right after childbirth. She bled to death because they went into clean outs, some stuff after the birth, and it got an infection in her womb. The infection went to the spleen, killed her platelets, and she bled to death. So here's the daughter. The doctors have determined that her spleen is killing her platelets. So we start doing some vaginal ozone and it cleans everything up for about a month and then it comes back and a month and it comes back. And finally we set up a family constellation and put in a representative for her great grandmother who bled to death. And during this constellation, the two of them left. It's enough that I bled to death. You have my blessing to find healing and wholeness. And most of that was telepathic, honestly. And, and the great granddaughter was fine after that. She was playing that role in her body, a near fatal role in her biology. But it brought the entire family back together to witness this movement of beauty and this love between a great grandmother and a great grandchild. And now the little toddler girl has a mommy that's not sick and going to the doctor all the time. So that's the story that was coming to my mind as you were sharing about all that you shared about. Joel 00:30:46.440 - 00:30:52.200 I appreciate you sharing. My Internet, like, cut out in the middle of that story. So I actually didn't, I didn't grab it. Natasha 00:30:52.920 - 00:31:03.080 But Joel, with that, your family lineage does have a history of war and persecution and rebellion, right? For you to serve the role that you do. Joel 00:31:04.280 - 00:31:04.920 Definitely. Yerasimos 00:31:05.640 - 00:31:07.160 Well, I hope that came through. Richard 00:31:09.960 - 00:31:10.520 We'll see. Yerasimos 00:31:10.520 - 00:32:49.900 We'll see if it came through. It came through. I want to zoom out a little bit. It relates to all this and I'm curious what you both have to say. So I've had a few people share with me. You know, they've watched your episode with us, Doc Massey, and they've even watched you on Alex's show. And they're like, I loved it. And it made me so mad too, because I think there are people that go, this isn't effing fair. Like, like why? Like, there's something I don't even know, like, for, like you're, you're sharing this story before. Hopefully it came through about the grandmother, the great grandmother, the daughter, and they kind of know these things, but there's so many things that are unknown in people's family systems and like, for people, like, as A human being, you're going through life and you're dealing with what you're dealing with, whether it's chronic illness, whether it's psychological stuff. And then to hear like, this could be because my great grandmother had an abortion or my great. Like, how many generations does it go back? And so, like, how do. How do you help someone get out of this? Like f. This. Excuse my language. Like, this isn't fair, you know, like, because they're operating from much more micro level. And of course, with this work, we zoom out and it's much more like expansive and extraordinary. And yet I totally can relate to someone being like, wtf? Like, why? Oh, yeah, why am I dealing with this? Because of some relative that I don't even know did X, Y and Z. Richard 00:32:51.180 - 00:34:32.730 Oh, yeah, now I'm with you there, you know, And I've. I've raged against that myself quite often. And what I've learned in doing sessions for like 15 years now is that everybody's heart already knows. It's only the head that does this kind of rage and thinking and all that. It's the program in the head. So in our society, since we put the head first and we forget about the heart, forget about the body, let's just educate this head, pour a bunch of information into it, and ask people to vomit it back out on a test paper. We'll give them some money and a good job if they can do that. That was. That was my, you know, era. And so the head has all kinds of objections, but it only has those because it doesn't listen to the heart. And of course, that's why I've been having this little thing on that you've been hearing pinging in the background. This is a little inner balance from Heart Map. I have yet to see a person whose heart doesn't already know the answer. That is not only fair, it's beyond fair. It's. It's so superb and so beautiful and so magnificent that it's unbearable to the head. The head can't even bear it until it lines up with the heart, so. And in the midst of a headstorm, man, I'm with you. I know how that feels. I was kind of doing a little of that this morning, you know. Joel 00:34:33.450 - 00:35:00.080 Well, I mean, I think it's just like, I'm important not to adopt this mindset. Like, I'm a victim to what my ancestors did or how they behaved or. Or whatever it might be. And ultimately I'm sense as. Like you were saying, like, like a hero, like, like a Healer, Right. Someone who's obviously, there's no accidents is meant to carry this, and there's reasons for it, you know, So I think connecting with the underlying purpose for my existence is important. As you listen to these conversations and you. Yerasimos 00:35:00.160 - 00:35:01.200 You go, Natasha. Natasha 00:35:01.200 - 00:37:06.350 Yeah, well, I think what's also what. What I've seen, right. I used to host Gilbert Recall Healings, the. The certification programs here live in. In Canada. And when the students would come and they would start to learn, just like the listeners who listen to the Dr. Massie on the podcast, right. Their. Their heads would start to just roll and they would wonder, they would be going back to their parents every night saying, tell me this, tell me this, tell me this, and. And digging through their family tree. Right. And so Dr. Hamer said this as well. You don't go searching for conflicts as well. Hellinger said, it's really important that you don't go poking around the family system when it's not ready. Because this work is about aligning with a trust in your body and a trust in life. So when you trust in life, then you know that life is always revealing the answer to you when it's ready. And you know how Richard explained about diagnostic. Well, when you go to the doctor, you become a patient. So the remedy is right there for you in the patience of it. But when we first discover something, we have that sense of urgency. And that's what Richard's talking about, right? We go right to the head, right to the intellectualization of it. And the head is also the representation of the father, right? So the one, like your listeners, who always wants to learn everything and understand it and all these things, they have a loyalty to this intellectualization and the logic of everything, the mind of it all. But when we come back to the heart, that's. That's coming back to the body of it and integrating the wisdom that I have into the embodiment of the experience. And that's where I have the trust. So that resistance there of like, oh, my gosh, this is unfair, and I'm going to understand this. And now I have to learn all of this, and now I have to see how everything that's happening to me is because of my ancestors. It's like there's a little bit of a resistance in me to trust in life. Joel 00:37:06.590 - 00:37:06.990 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:37:06.990 - 00:37:09.020 Do you feel it's an Joel, you. Joel 00:37:09.020 - 00:37:36.040 Go, well, I was just gonna say, like, I kind of feel like on a soul and karmic level, like all shadows also container gifts. And I can see in the through line, once upon A time where I thought, oh, my God, why do I have to deal with this? Because my dad did this, whoever did this, ultimately, I see how it perfectly ties into my existence and my purpose. And when alchemized enough, there's actually a gift there. There's a treasure to be mined for my unique existence, you know, as well. Natasha 00:37:37.880 - 00:39:03.350 And I think even one of the most powerful movements that I love when we're working live in family constellations, is that after we've done a movement and I have my maybe representatives that are playing my mother and my father in this, then I take the individual and I face them away toward their destiny, toward their direction in life with their hands open. Now my hands are open. You stay with this. And I take my life. I choose to live now. And that's the missing piece, right? Because in that victimization, I could be a victim to the circumstance in my life. And I could say, oh, it's because of this, it's because of this. And my grandfather did this, and then they went to the Holocaust or whatever your story might be. You can say, oh, these things continue to happen in my life because of that. But the integration of the wisdom that I now understand means. Means I take action toward my life. Means I see the story, I witness the untold love story. I acknowledge it. And with that integration, I choose to live my life. Because that is the way in which I honor my ancestors. They paid the ultimate price with their story, and they gave me this gift for which I can never repay them for. And that is the gift of life. So when I choose to live now, that's the way in which I honor it. Richard 00:39:03.670 - 00:39:04.030 Yeah. Joel 00:39:04.030 - 00:39:13.510 And that's. That's when you reclaim the pen and step into authorship and start adding to the story as opposed to just letting the story play out, you know, and. And giving up authorship in that capacity. Natasha 00:39:13.830 - 00:39:14.870 Exactly. Yeah. Richard 00:39:15.190 - 00:39:15.590 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:39:15.590 - 00:40:08.280 It's really a simplicity to it, you know, but we have to go through the process. And I feel like we all have this experience in our lives. Like, we learn something new, like, even. Let's just go back to, like, nutrition, like when we first started learning certain things. Things like, oh, I gotta. I gotta do this and I gotta do that, or maybe it's because of this. But then at some point we come to this place, hopefully, if we're growing where there is more peace, there is more expansion around certain things. So, like, one of the. I guess the. The issues that we see now that, like, G and M and other things are coming out into the world more is people get obsessed over the specifics and the knowledge and the, the specific elements of it, where it's like, okay, cool. Go through that process. And yet what we're all saying here is like, you gotta drop in, drop in, Connect to the heart, connect to your feeling, connect to your presence. And a lot of gold can be mined there. Joel 00:40:08.360 - 00:40:35.540 Well, well said, man. It's like you can't get stuck in the micro or the macro. You have to be able to hold both the micro and the macro simultaneously. If you just get stuck in the details, yeah, it's gonna create anxiety and insecurity and anxiousness. You just get stuck in the macro, you're gonna be detached from the truth of what's happening now. So I think again, our role as human beings is this bridge between these realms, between these worlds, you know, between as above, so below. And that's how I've always seen us. Yerasimos 00:40:35.780 - 00:41:22.050 It's like our recent episode that just came out. We named it Know yourself and then get on with it. Get on with life. Like, you know, it's like, hopefully we do a certain amount of work to understand ourselves, but if we're constantly obsessing over everything and in these never ending healing loops and trying to figure everything out, like, we're just like a hamster on a wheel. Like, at some point it's like, you gotta live too. Because a lot of the fear I feel like people newer to GM and I still consider myself a novice, even though I came across it, what, in 2020, it's like, I don't want to experience conflicts. What can I do to not experience a conflict? And it's like, what are you doing? Like, just take a deep breath and live your life. And conflicts are a part of life to some degree. Hopefully you're not in them for too long, but feel free to share anything based on what we said. Joel 00:41:35.170 - 00:42:00.530 I've got, I've got a question. You know, we're talking about, like, obviously, coherence of the heart as a through line here, I guess in this plain terms, what generates heart coherence, what decreases heart coherence? Like, what are the specific actions or ways of relating that are going to lead one to a state of more persistent coherence as opposed to incoherence. Richard 00:42:03.570 - 00:44:48.750 So if you get on the website and the Institute of Heart Math, they'll, they'll take you through some exercises, some breathing exercises, some imagination exercises that increase your heart coherence. I never took that training, as you heard from the previous thing. Mine was what I. What felt like accidental discovery using Dr. Jovier Renault's recall Healing book with a girl with asthma. And, and putting this little clip on her ear, she read that sentence, investigate the history of cheating in your family tree. And her heart monitor made a sound. And so I asked her what she read, she repeated what she read, had read silently, and her mother burst into tears and ran out of the room. And it turned out the asthma started when the mother started having an affair with someone who she thought it was secret, but in the subconscious. There are no secrets in family. So, so I started wondering if that happens with everything. Like, so I have these German new medicine books, Recall Healing books, Jacques Martel's book. I have my iPhone to type in what is the conflict of runny nose and German new medicine or whatever. I want to type in there. And then I get a readout. Well, if I have my heart coherence monitor on, I wait to see where the heart high heart coherence sentences are. And that's where my heart wants me to go next for the next step in my life. So my part's been really practical. I'm still getting uneducated, so I'm just kind of, you know, plodding along this way. Another fun thing to do for, for your listeners. We used to have a kava bar up there at Casa de Luz and we would sit up there and play heart coherence Tarot. And so we take a tarot deck and people would go through the cards until their heart said that card. And you know, you could do a three card spread or seven card spread or whatever, decide that ahead of time. And then when you read in the Osho book or whatever deck you have, whichever sentences are high coherence, those are the ones that your heart wants you to pay attention to. And you'll, you'll get some real benefits in your life following the path of higher heart coherence. So I only know practical applications, Joel. I'm not a big theoretic guy, you know, I've just, I've just seen it like work. Joel 00:44:50.030 - 00:45:05.620 So I mean, and, and at the root of what you're saying is like, it's the truth. It's truth that leads to heart coherence. And when we read these different statements when we hold different tarot cards, it's like, what is the subconscious holding? Holding is the ultimate source of truth. And when we're confronted with that, you know you're going to get that ping. Richard 00:45:06.820 - 00:45:08.820 Yes. Yeah. Thank you. Joel 00:45:10.180 - 00:45:14.180 Yeah. Natasha, how you doing? Where you at? Natasha 00:45:15.300 - 00:49:26.920 Well, I was sort of thinking, you know, as you Were, as we've been talking about, the things that come up as someone is newly introduced to this work. And yes, it can be this overwhelm, this is unfair intellectualization. But what I've been noticing in my practice also, because since that podcast, Richard has been taking a break. So I've been getting the clients that have been coming to Richard's podcast. And I've been laughing because he did. He's done such a phenomenal job about the way in which he conveys this work. So I feel like, you know, the honor is really there and the reverence is really there for me to offer something that can live up to what he's bringing forth and to be able to convey it well. And what I've noticed so much is that a lot of the times, especially parents and especially mothers, when they witness a story or when they see an interrupted movement of love that has trickled down the family line, there's this sense of guilt, right? I'm taking responsibility for the part in which I played in this. And then I'm also experiencing this overwhelming guilt for when I was led astray and when I wasn't in that heart coherence and when I was living in that sort of illusion of separation from love that I interrupted the movement here. And one of the things that they're coming back to me with and relaying is the sense of, wow, I am discovering all these things. And it's a grieving process for me that I'm actually going through, of understanding where I lived my life out of that alignment. And even in my own experience, when I came across this work and I started to dive into it, and it happened for me exactly that way. And Richard and I, when we were together, we were talking about the systemic pattern of what happened that led us here, right? And for me, my story was my father had passed away suddenly, and there had been a rupture in our relationship. So I hadn't talked to him for four years. So I was 19 years old, and he passed away when I was 24. And for four and a half years, I didn't speak to my father. And so when he died and it was just completely ripped away from me, there was so much that was left unsaid and so many things that I needed to hear from him that I never got the chance to hear. And when I found this work, it was so healing for me, for me to be able to say the things that I never got to say. But one of the things that came into my field and came into my Heart was also this overwhelming sense of guilt. If. If I had known then what I know now, could I have saved our relationship or could it have been different? And one of my teachers at the time said, natasha, it's really important that you feel. Face that guilt, and that. That guilt has a place here. It belongs here. And every morning I started to wake up and I did this visualization exercise where I imagined all of the things that I wanted my father to say to me, because I was feeling like so much was left unspoken. And the irony is this only happened a year ago, so he's been passing for six and a half years. But a year ago, I went through this catalyst in my life where I felt there's some sort of resistance here. There's something that I'm not seeing, and it was that guilt. And every morning I would write down what I needed to hear and how proud he was of me and how much he loved me and how beautiful I am. Whatever came to me, I wrote that down. I wrote that down. I wrote that down. I wrote that down. And later, at the same time, my grandfather was crossing the threshold, so he was leaving this physical realm. Joel 00:49:27.080 - 00:49:28.440 And that was my dad's father. Natasha 00:49:29.240 - 00:54:48.920 This was my paternal grandfather, my opa, My mom's. My mom's father. So as I'm facing the guilt about the death of my father, I'm losing the next patriarch, right? Because the. Systemically, the unmarried female, she still belongs to her father. So that was bringing so much to the surface for me, because I thought, oh, my gosh, when my grandfather goes, who played a big role in my life because my father was very absent, then I have no one. And so every morning I would do this exercise. And then I flew to Germany to go be with my grandfather. And my grandfather had just lost my grandmother, so she had just passed away, and he was alone now. And I came to go see him all by myself, and I brought him his favorite little cakes from the bakery. And we sat there, and what was so interesting is he said to me, natasha, my heart is so broken. And I cry myself to sleep. And every night. And what I was going through in my life at the time was my heart was also so broken. I was going through the loss of a relationship that was significant to me, and I was crying myself to sleep every night. And so we don't realize when we go through these moments in our life where it's sort of like that dark night of the soul, but when you're going through that, I guarantee you there is someone in the family system who is shifting through that with you at the same time. And when I told him, opa, my heart is so broken, too, he said to me, natasha, I can't explain it, but sometimes I'm just so lonely, and I'm overcome with this sense that I feel all alone. And I said to him, me, too. And I crawled up in bed and we cried together. And he said to me, thank you for telling me that, because I feel less alone. And now when I cry, I'll think of you, and I'll know that we're in this together and that we're healing this together. And the next day when I left, when I came home that night, I said, oh, my gosh, that's what I had with my father that I've been cultivating for months and months and months in this practice. And I do still have a father. And I'm not realizing that there's a. There's a patriarch of that household that has been with me all along. Even when my father was absent, my grandfather was always there. So the next day, after acknowledging that and witnessing that, when I went back to my Opa, he said, natasha, I want to do something very special for you today. And I want you to sit here and I want to hold your hand, and I want to tell you so I want to cry, what you mean to me. And everything I had envisioned that I needed my father to say that I never got to hear. My grandfather said to me, and he put his hands up in the air, and he said, I'm going to count on each finger all the things I love about you. And he said, I'm so proud of you. You're so beautiful. You're so intelligent. You're so funny. And that was what I was doing in my exercise every single morning. I was envisioning that I got to have this last conversation with my father. And so I'm sitting there holding my grandfather's hand, and we're both crying. And then I would say, okay, enough, Opa. Like, I get it. And he would say, no, it's not enough. I'm going to start from the beginning again. And he would go again and again and again. And at the very end, when after, you know, he was drifting off to sleep and I had this moment. My father has a very distinct name, a very rare name. And my grandfather shot up. He looked out the window. His blue, blue eyes just came fully alive and clear as day. He said my father's name. He just said it into the ether. And I looked at him and I said, opa, you just said dad's name. And he said, I know. And I said, why did you do that? And he said, I don't know. I just had to say his name. And I said, you remember that dad's not here anymore, right? And he said, oh, yeah, he's not here anymore. And that was the completion that I needed. So, you know, my story in finding this work is I'm helping others reunite with their parents and restore the love again because I couldn't do it with my father in the physical. So every time I get to offer this to somebody else, it heals that part of me that didn't get to, to say it. And I, I also want to encourage anyone listening. If you've lost a loved one, a family member on the other side, and you feel like you have so much you want to say, this is where the work is so incredibly powerful. And it also came through the portal of grief, of me grieving years and years and years of, of what I didn't know then and what I needed to say in a relationship that perhaps I could have had. But now I get to have that with him. Yerasimos 00:54:50.040 - 00:54:54.280 Thank you for sharing on that. That's deep. Joel 00:54:57.080 - 00:55:32.840 Like, for me, it's just so much awe in terms of like the unseen, unknowable, intangible connections that exist in this pool of psyches, you know, with. Within families. You know, the things that your experience being mirrored through your grandfather and him vocalizing and verbalizing and being tapped into without, you know, actually having a conversation. The things that you needed and were thinking about and were in your own subtle ways, calling that healing forward. Then he was that vessel through which that was able to happen. It's like, how do you fucking explain. Natasha 00:55:36.200 - 00:55:49.050 Even that he shot up and said my father's name clear as day. That was the validation, that was my father's way of doing, telling me, hey, Natasha, you know, I'm. I'm listening. I. I was there. This is what I would have said. Yerasimos 00:55:49.930 - 00:56:31.220 This is why it's like, I think, a requirement. I know, doc. You brought up that phrase uneducated educated, which I hadn't heard before, which is like, how can you humble yourself to the mystery? You know, like that, that to me is like such a big part of the, like, the work, you know, everything you said, Joel, like, like realizing, like, we don't have it all figured out. We don't know everything. We're self righteous, you know, arrogant, like, oh, that's stupid. That's stupid. That's stupid. No, like, there is a mystery that we can't fathom from, let's say, logic. And so we have to, like, surrender to it. And. Yeah, I mean, it's. Richard 00:56:31.940 - 00:56:32.820 It's powerful. Yerasimos 00:56:32.820 - 00:56:34.900 You know, like, it is powerful. Joel 00:56:34.900 - 00:57:19.140 And I think one of the issues is that for the majority of people, like, the unknown generates so much anxiety. But I feel like there's a certain point where, like, you just. I have so much trust in the unknown. Like, I find throughout my life, time and time again, the moments where I thought, you know, were the most disastrous, that I wasn't going to make it, etc. My faith has been proven, you know, correct every single time. Like, I find I can rest in the unknown. I can rest in the mystery. I trust in what's unfolding. And I think that's the greatest source of our healing actually, is being able to, like you said, surrender in a way that Cole is, like, deeply faithful and has deep trust in the story that is my life and that things are going to be okay and things are going to work out. Yerasimos 00:57:20.980 - 00:57:22.580 Left angle cross of uncertainty, bro. Joel 00:57:24.420 - 00:58:05.980 It's a great source of healing. I mean, how much anxiety can be reduced simply by, like, having this underlying bedrock of no matter how much turbulence happens on the surface, there's this knowing that, like, someone's got me. Like, I'm. I'm supported. I am supported. I actually cannot fail. I actually cannot lose in that capacity, like, that's there, like, I'm free in this playground, in the sandbox of life, to be myself, to experiment, to try different things, to risk love, to risk success, to risk greatness. And I can have that play. And at the bedrock, I'm held. Doesn't matter. I'm held. Like, that's. Yerasimos 00:58:06.300 - 00:58:07.580 You operate differently. Natasha 00:58:08.060 - 00:58:18.140 It sounds like through how you say that you take your mother, if you say all that, that you do about life, I'm just like, okay, he's got a good, good union with his mom. Richard 00:58:19.260 - 00:58:24.380 It's true. It's true. Yerasimos 00:58:26.070 - 00:58:31.350 This conversation was just. I wish I was wearing a heart. A heart monitor right now. Richard 00:58:34.630 - 00:58:37.190 Yeah, yeah. It's nice to hear it. Joel 00:58:37.510 - 00:58:50.230 But it's like, on a physical level, sure, you can cultivate as much nervous system safety and physical safety, but if you don't feel safe on, like, an existential soul level like this, it's like. Yerasimos 00:58:50.310 - 00:58:51.190 It's a different game. Joel 00:58:51.720 - 00:58:52.760 It really is a different game. Yerasimos 00:58:53.480 - 00:59:11.160 So the question is, we're here, we're having these conversations on what we think is necessary. And for a lot of people listening, like, well, how do I get there? How do everything you just said, Joel, like, how do I get to that place where I feel held by the greater cosmos and trust? And it's the same thing I've said. Joel 00:59:11.240 - 00:59:41.390 For 311 episodes, right? And Joseph C. Campbell said it. It's enter the cave that you fear to see that you fear and trust the cave, you have to risk. You actually have to risk feeling fear, feeling scared, feeling uncertainty, feeling scarcity, because that knowing in that faith is only ever restored and cultivated through moving towards the uncomfortable and the scary thing. And then seeing that, wow, I'm still hell. Yerasimos 00:59:41.870 - 01:00:25.250 So I get that now I want to bring it over to, like, Natasha or Dog Massey, because still, there's still, like, something, I think, more upstream from that. Like, how do you get to the place to be able to enter the cave that you fear to enter, you know, to get the treasure? So, like, where you brought it up briefly with Joel, Natasha, but, like, where in the family systemic lens. Like, someone who can't do that, who is living in fear, who is more paralyzed, who can read all the books, take all the courses, but they're not going to have that difficult conversation. They're not going to, you know, you know, start that business. They're not going to leave the relationship, whatever the case may be. What is it underlying that someone can get to or explore through, like maybe the family systemic lens or anything else you want to say? And this goes for both of you. Richard 01:00:28.370 - 01:03:12.010 I like what Natasha said. And of course, Joel's going on my resentment list now because it sounds like he's figured out the key to life at a much younger age than I did. Of course I'll work through that resentment. I have. I have a program for that in my life. I. I have had to have the source of life show up as a scary creature and scare me into the cave where the good thing happens. I, I don't. I don't sit outside the cave going, you know what? I'm going to risk this because I feel held and wonderful and all that. I'm going to walk into this cave and face Darth Vader or whatever's in there. No, I'm staying outside the cave. I'm like Woody Allen going, I don't know. You know, you know, you know, they, they knock you out for the colonoscopy. That part's okay, but the prep day really sucks. So not. I'm not sure which way to go in this cave. And, And. But then when the scary monster shows up, the cave looks pretty good. And so I've been scared in most of the caves. And I agree with Joel, once I get in there, something good happens. And. But, you know, instead of going in there, knowing that I'm held, I'm avoiding being held by the monster for lunch. You know, that's. That's how I end up in the caves. And when Natasha spoke, one of the first things that comes to me is what Hellinger said about interrupted movements. When an interrupted movement happens between a person and usually their mother, but sometimes their father. And it often happens around birth. When a mother and a child get separated at birth for whatever reason, there's this. There's a mistrust that can happen in the nervous system, and that's restored when a person completes the interrupted movement. And some people do that by holding therapy. There's something called holding therapy. You can do it through constellations. There are all kinds of ways to do that. But people who can't rest, like Joel is describing, that's the first place I would look, is where was the interrupted movement? And I would let somebody's heart and their life story tell me, did that happen for you? And so let's repair that interrupted movement so that your life can go forward now. Yerasimos 01:03:13.370 - 01:03:14.170 Thanks, doc. Natasha 01:03:14.810 - 01:06:49.690 Yeah. It's almost the. The paradox that we have of love and loyalty because, you know, systemically, an interrupted movement that could be. There is somehow it is not safe to live my own life, right? So we always look at how is this behavior benefiting my role in the family system, right? So I have a role. I have an identity in my family system. And that could be that my family knows struggle. And so out of love and loyalty to my family, I create struggle and hardship in my life, right? So we have these loyalties that play out. So if I've always adopted a certain role in my family, when I shift out of that role, the whole meta genealogy, the whole morphogenetic field of my family has to reorganize. So if I don't go after life that somehow benefits my family in some way, when there's been an interrupted movement, there's been a distortion of love. And now we've all adopted this sort of defense. Defense mechanism. So when you see that, you can even almost see where maybe I can't be more than my mother or maybe I can't be more than my father, right? So you, Joel, like I said about your relationship with your mother, when you take your mother in full and you accept her exactly as she is, and you come into the alignment that she was the perfect mother for you to bring you into this world now, I can be more than that. It is safe for me to live my life. I choose to live now. And now I have the ability to be greater than maybe my family of origin. Right. But again, it's like we accept the love that we know is familiar. Right. So if it's familiar to never go after life, to never push so much, to never go after your own destiny, you will adopt that because subconsciously, it's not safe to do so. And I can't be more than my ancestors. Yeah. So like Richard said, you would sort of reveal in the field what pattern might be there. And what's interesting, right, is you don't know what's going to be revealed in the field. Not even Richard or I know. We, we have patterns that we can see and we can understand. Sort of like mathematics. One plus one is equaling. Well, is it equaling two? Or that's another discussion. But what I mean is we understand the pattern and we can recognize the framework, but the field reveals it. And even myself and Richard can vouch for this. After years of doing this work, I'll go in and I'll do a movement, or life will offer me a movement, and then it will show me something. Wow. I didn't see it that way, but it's because I'm in alignment and I'm finally ready to see it that way. So we don't want to push someone before they're ready. The first field will know what they are ready for. So that sort of tendency to not go after life. Yes. Generally, I would say points systemically, more to the mother, like Richard was saying, the separation of the mother. Because my relationship with my mother is my relationship to life. Right. She's the one who gives me life. Without her, I don't survive. A father can leave the family, and it's not such a big deal. But if a mother leaves the family, whoa, that could be death right now she jeopardizes my ability to live life. So we can see the general view, but the love story, that's. That's someone's own love story there that we have to find. Yerasimos 01:06:50.730 - 01:08:10.410 Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm curious based on this, what patterns you've seen? Like, I'm first generation Greek American, you know, and I grew up around a lot of kids or their parents emigrated from Greece and, and that. So for many of them, like the, the mom, the dad and the mom, they, like, left the comfort of their home to go on this journey to do something pretty incredible. And yet when they come to the new country. It's almost as if, like we're creating this time capsule. We want to feel safe. We're going to bring our culture here. You can't leave. Like, the world is scary. But then again, they left. And so I notice a lot of first generation kids, they like, take over the family business or maybe they want to go, but their parents don't let them. And so like, what's that? Because if we're looking down the line, they went on an adventure, they left their homeland for whatever reason, and yet the next generation, they're keeping them. Now, granted, every child on some level has a choice, but we're talking about loyalty. And so like a lot of people, they just go, oh, I don't want to disturb the family system. I'm going to stay home. I'm not going to go away to college, I'm not going to whatever, go on walkabout or whatever the case may be. So how, what has been your experience working with people that are first generation around this stuff that I'm bringing up. Richard 01:08:13.930 - 01:12:55.020 So for, for me, the, the people that come to see me are descendants of folks who left their country under duress. They're not people who decided, you know what, you know, California looks pretty cool, let's just go over there. We're doing great here, but we can do more there. I don't, those people don't come to see me. The people who come to see me were driven out by war, poverty, all kinds of horrible things. And in their hearts, they did not want to leave their homeland. And, and there's a suffering in that. There's something about our biology that seems happier when we're on the land where the bones of our ancestors are buried. To leave that place under duress is a huge suffering. In order for them to accomplish that, that suffering may have to be pushed into the subconscious for the descendants to then pick up. And the descendants will carry the suffering energy that would have kept the parents from moving away and getting their family into safety. So it's like we're spreading out everything that needs to happen in here in order to make this movement. It requires generations of people carrying different parts of a load. And so one of the exercises that we do is in a constellation, we put in a representative for Greece and we have the people say to Greece, thank you for being my homeland. Thank you for caring for my ancestors. I wouldn't be here if you hadn't taken care of them so well the way you did. And it became unsafe to set to Stay. And so brokenheartedly we left. Would you look friendly on us when we go find a safe place in the United States and we wait to hear what the representative for Greece has to say. People have the blessing of the country that they're leaving. A lot of the suffering can be left there and taken off the descendants. If that doesn't happen, the descendants can symbolically, without realizing it, stay at home is if they're staying back in Greece, like, like the, the feelings of their parents wanted to do but could not do. It wasn't safe for the family, so they had to violate their own feelings to make this movement. Right. And then we put in someone for the United States or whichever country someone goes to, and we ask that country, will you take us in? Will you welcome us in this place? It's almost like the similar constellation that we do when, when a child is moving from biological parents to foster parents. It's. It's the same kind of movement and all of them need to be seen and come to a peace in ourselves about it. The countries are the big ones for us and we're the little ones. And so we ask for their blessing. And so far, I've seen every country give it, except recently, the United States did not. The. The person representing the United States was exhausted and they said, can't take in any new people. And, and so then the, the person who was actually the client said, I'm really good at real estate and I generate, you know, I'm good for the economy. And, and the United States set up and said, okay, well come on over then. You know, makes sense. And it was the first time I'd conditional acceptance from a country. It was very surprising, but it ended up being a good resolution for the client who was actually there because the real estate business wasn't going well. So she got a nice boost in her business as well as a consequence. Yerasimos 01:12:55.020 - 01:12:57.660 So that's interesting. Joel 01:12:57.900 - 01:12:58.380 Yeah. Natasha 01:12:59.500 - 01:17:21.950 Well, I can speak to it as a first generation myself. You know, on my paternal side, my father, he comes from a heritage, a very sacred lineage that has no home country. So through following the Prophet Ismail, my father was born already third generation in East Africa, but there is no African bloodline. My ancestors came originally from Northern India. And what happened was the merchants came to sell the spices and the things that they needed, and they converted the Hindus into the faith of the merchants who were following the Prophet Ismail after the passing of Muhammad. So my ancestors would have originally been Hindus, Northern India, from northern India that were later converted. And then, as you know, in the history there that the Hindus split and we created India and Pakistan. So through that split, my ancestors were not welcome in Pakistan either, because there was a divide over their faith. So they were sent to East Africa. So my grandmother and my grandfather on my father's side were already born in Tanzania. And then my father and his siblings were born in Kenya. And so they had no connection to the roots or the land. They didn't really belong there in Africa. They're not African. They didn't belong in India, and they didn't feel such a connection to Pakistan either. And then when IDI Amin came into power, they needed to flee as refugees. But my grandfather, my father's dad, was a very prominent spiritual teacher, and he actually would write spiritual poetry and give lectures. And so he, through working with one of the other prophets of the faith, was able to come to Canada and grant asylum. So originally, he actually came to America, and my father went to America when he was 8 years old. And then later they worked with Trudeau, that's Justin Trudeau's father, to be able to bring their spiritual children to have refuge and safety in the country of Canada. So my grandfather sort of paved the way for all of the spiritual children to be able to come there and have safety. Yeah. And then if you go. On my mother's side, she left Germany as an immigrant and came originally to Central America, of all places. Right. And my father, in his adulthood, was traveling through Central America, doing some work after immigrating to North America. America. And so they. They met there. And if I look at my own life, where do I spend half my year in Central America. Right. Because without Central America, I don't exist. Right. And my father, throughout the duration of his whole life, he never settled anywhere. He always liked to have hubs everywhere. He had a place in Switzerland, a place in Canada, a place in Miami. Like, I don't think there's a place on this earth that my father hasn't lived. Right. And so that sense of safety, of unsafety, of where we have nowhere to land, I have no home country, was always instilled within me. And if you look at my life, I probably have more loyalty to my father than my siblings because I'm always traveling, hopping everywhere on a plane every week just. Just like my father was. So it can sort of manifest in that way of someone who really likes to travel or someone who really doesn't feel safe settled anywhere. But when I came back, a little bit more to the story of my grandfather, who had been the one who could say to all these spiritual children, that it was safe here. That really helped me to understand. Oh, okay. We built a new family constellation and a new sense of safety here. But that. That is also the split with. With immigrants or anyone listening. If you have a family that comes from Tukal cultures, two different dogmas, two different identities coming in and creating a new one, that's a. That's a very deep. That's a very deep one to come into two different, Very separate ideologies, heritages coming together. Wow. That can create real. Real split. Richard 01:17:22.350 - 01:17:23.150 Yeah. Wow. Joel 01:17:23.230 - 01:17:28.430 So interesting. Well, so how would you. If we're playing who's the most displaced Olympics? Yerasimos 01:17:32.720 - 01:18:04.850 Well, I was gonna say, so let's. I mean, you see it all over the world. Most people aren't, like, just marrying their kind, you know, and so, like, no, if you have a. Whatever, like an Italian and a Pakistani, like, so the. The work is to what, like, do different movements with each lineage and. And say thank you. And how do you even resolve the split, you know, that may occur in the. In the progeny of two people, you know? Anyways, I'm asking all these big questions, like, tell us all the answers now. Well, I know it's more specific, you. Richard 01:18:04.850 - 01:18:05.290 Know, but. Yerasimos 01:18:08.330 - 01:18:20.250 I'm just curious, like, as a. Just like, throw a few things out there, you know, because, you know, we. I would say most of the people listening to this podcast probably have a mom and a dad that weren't born and raised in the same exact place, or at least the same country. Richard 01:18:22.730 - 01:18:36.140 A short answer is, everyone's heart already knows, okay? And that answer is satisfying once they get in it. When. When we're here and the head's wanting the answers in the back of the book. Yerasimos 01:18:36.140 - 01:19:02.020 That's good. I love that you're sharing that, because people, you know, they're listening, they're hearing, they're taking in information. It's like you. It's almost like you can't get the mind out of it, especially when you're hearing things for the first time. But it's a good reminder to go, okay, just rest, taking the knowledge and then drop in. Understanding this powerful umbrella of the heart always knows. Natasha 01:19:02.900 - 01:22:52.530 But you know what's interesting? Coming back to the. To the logistical. Here I go. Out of loyalty to my father. Okay, so they have done studies where women are told to smell sweaty shirts of a man and rate who they are most attracted to just based on the sweat through the shirts. And what they found was, statistically, women would always rate the one who was more genetically diverse from them as the most attractive. So the one who had the least furthest away genealogy to them, they would deem as the most attractive. And when you look at biology, the. This makes sense because when two different cultures come together, they both carry their own adaptations. Right. And I know, like, you know, we have. We isolated a gene and everything like that, leave that aside. There is something biologically hereditary. But when you understand, even through German new medicine, that every symptom is an adaptation, when two diverse culture, distinctly diverse cultures from different areas of the earth come together with their own specific adaptations, they should theoretically biologically create a very strong offspring. Right. Because that offspring would now be more adapted, carry more adaptations. You know, so, for example, my mother would be Caucasian, so my dark father would give me the adaptation of melanin that would make me better suited and adapted to warmer environments. So different cultures, biologically. Yes, yes. Different cultures biologically coming together, create a stronger offspring. But now what I find in the family history is that it's to heal a love story. So if I look at the love story of my own mother and father, their family lineages, both. Both faced severe persecution. So my mother's lineage In World War II, my mother came from an ancestry of a family member who was running against Hitler at the time. So he was the leader of the Bolshevik Communist Party, and he actually spent 10 years in exile in a concentration camp, where he was later executed in Buchenwald. And his wife and daughter spent those years in the women's camp somewhere else. And his wife went on to be able to come become a political leader and figure, but the rest of the family had to go into hiding and change their names because they may face persecution. And there, from my father's side, also this story of him facing persecution. Right. And so the two of them come together to heal that story. They share that bond in their family lineage of this idea of where do we belong? And escapism and needing to hide and also rebellion and going somewhere else to create a better life. And so when you can kind of understand that story, you can actually see how your partner might be healing something within you. You know, so like a German and a Jew together heal a story of we are supposed to not like each other. Right. You know, on society, I'm. I've imprinted this dogma of we're not supposed to be together. Yeah. And that. That can actually, when you bring that love story and you acknowledge it, it can be healing. And you can see why the two cultures needed to come together and how this is serving the next generation. Joel 01:22:53.010 - 01:22:59.010 Yeah, yeah. It's, like, so wild to consider these things. Sorry, you slowing on? Yerasimos 01:22:59.250 - 01:23:06.930 No, sorry. I was gonna say. So I'm from Greece. Sophie's from England. Two of the greatest empires that have ever existed in our history. Joel 01:23:07.330 - 01:23:07.730 Yeah. Yerasimos 01:23:07.730 - 01:23:12.450 If we have a child, he's going to be an emperor. Is that what you're trying to say, of an even greater empire? Natasha 01:23:13.490 - 01:23:13.970 Yeah. Joel 01:23:14.450 - 01:24:35.440 Topanga. Topanga Farmers market Empire. I mean, it's. It's so interesting to consider these things. You know, it's got me reflecting and I'll share a bit of my own, you know, personal story, because it's just irrelevant. Like, my dad was born in Jerusalem, Palestine. They were forcefully displaced during the Six Day War. My grandfather was a very proud entrepreneur in Jerusalem. He had his own carpentry business, and he was actually forcibly removed from his own factory. Like, when two IDF soldiers went to remove him, he actually pulled the hot wires and was ready to suicide everyone within that factory. That's how much he didn't want to let go of Jerusalem and Palestine. And then ultimately they ended up in Sydney. My grandfather, he never. Never really assimilated to Australia. He never really wanted to be there. He never accepted that he was forced to be removed from his. His home country. And then, you know, here I am in Mexico. And so I wonder what kind of role that plays in terms of my own subtle ways of maybe rejecting Australia in certain degrees. But the interesting thing is that the place that we always really resonated with in Mexico was the Riviera Maya region, the Caribbean, Playa del Carmen. And then earlier this year, my brother got an ancestry DNA test. And I have one direct Mayan relative, one direct Mayan ancestor from exactly the Riviera Maya. So it's just like, wow. Yeah,. Natasha 01:24:38.810 - 01:26:51.930 It's funny how that works. No, I always say, you know, my mother, I was explaining to Richard, too, my mother through this cross culture, right? One of the things that she became devoted to was yoga. So Sanskrit and chanting. And she always. My hippie mom. And being a hippie love child, this is one of the sort of values, or you could say spiritual gnosis that she passed on to us for four children. But my father, remember, with his heritage, they would have originally been Hindu, so they would have been chanting and Sanskrit and the practice. So my mother, without knowing it, healed something within the family line through her being drawn to this spiritual work and then instilling upon us this value. And so when I would chant and when I would speak in Sanskrit and when I would learn the mantras and when I would sing. I just felt this sort of awakening that would happen in my bloodline. And it wasn't until more so, digging deeper into my father's lineage that I realized, oh, of course, my ancestors were actually taken away from Hinduism, from their spirituality and converted, because that was what was most beneficial at the time of the trade. And so I'm. I'm. I am connecting with my true lineage. And here my mom gave me that gift, who has no connection to that lineage, but just this also somewhat affinity for it, like her own knowing that this is what she most aligned with and then passed it down to us. And therefore she healed that. Right. So even Joel, like, with your story, you're doing something mostly unconsciously, but it's healing something more in the story. Like, even my grandfather, I just learned as I was diving deeper into some of my family trees, that the first place he came to from Africa was that he sailed to Marseille. And just about a year ago, I took a spiritual pilgrimage to Marseille, thinking anything of it, only to come to realize that my grandfather, at 20 something years old, took his first spiritual pilgrimage to give lectures in Marseille. Yerasimos 01:26:53.610 - 01:26:54.170 Cool. Joel 01:26:54.810 - 01:26:56.390 Consciousness never dies. Yerasimos 01:26:57.430 - 01:27:17.830 No. Hey, Doc. Doc, I got a question for you. You've lived some years on this earth, you know, you know, at this stage in your life, like, you know, what have been some of the biggest lessons and growths, and as you approach a different phase in your life, like, what. How are you feeling? Richard 01:27:20.070 - 01:34:10.860 Wow, that's a big one. Yeah, that's a big one. Oh, my gosh. Somebody asked me the other day what did I want, you know, like, at the end of this little constellation exercise. And it stumped the band. I was like, wow, I don't really know. And so this last couple of weeks, there's been a lot of going on around that question. You know, every season's got its stuff, so, you know, what's coming up this season? And I'm not sure. I think it's. It's forming. I'm shedding some more layers. Like Annette asked me the other day, I was telling her, just kind of confessing how some of my inner misery that comes from my programming, you know, and it's beautiful for me to know that that's not who I really am, and yet I can get lost in that programming again. And I go, well, this is like, you know, and so she was saying, well, when you're doing constellations and you're in the field, that feels joyful, right? And I wanted to be able to say yes so that I don't know, I wanted her to think of me that way, but I said, you know, I don't, I don't feel joyful in the field. I only feel good in a constellation when a resolution happens, when the love story is revealed and there are no casualties. And when I said it that way, I realized I was entangled with my three combat veteran uncles in World War II, especially the one who was the radio operator and he was in line of fire combat in Europe. And his job was to get higher information through his radio and then share that with the troops in a way that would keep them safe on this battlefield. And I did not realize that that was overlaying my perception and my feeling. Every time I stepped into the constellation field, I'm thinking, I'm, I'm waiting for these insights. I want to make sure there's no casualties. And all that's going on emotionally in the midst of what for many people is just a beautiful unfolding of surprises. And so I, I've done like Natasha's speaking about some imagination constellations of standing, standing with him in front of his fallen comrades and the people he had to kill in war and facing them and being seen by them. And some things are already shifting in how I feel. So, yeah, thanks for the question. I'm not sure right now because there's more and more layers. I'm, you know, I'm getting to look at the interrupted movement with my mother again at the birth because Annette's been gone and, and so that's coming up and so doing some deep digging and I know that the real me is already full and complete and has no needs. So every night when I go to sleep, I do the Vinnie Tolman power hour. I don't know if you know Vinnie Tolman. Vinnie Tolman has one of the more miraculous near death experience stories that he, he and his, he was an actor and wanted to look good and buff and he and his friends worked out and they had this favorite supplement they took and, and all the stores ran out. Well, what are you going to do? So they got online and ordered what they thought was the same thing from Thailand. And. But since they couldn't read Thai and it shows up and they're about to go work out, they just take the same number of pills. Well, it turns out it's 20 times the strength of the one they sell in America. So they start feeling bad, they go to Dairy Queen. The one guy starts throwing up so bad he goes over someplace else. Then he goes into the bathroom. He didn't want to throw up in public. And he dies in the bathroom. I mean, lock the door so nobody would come in. They didn't find him until he was cold. Some customer trying to get in the bathroom, and they just went in and zipped him in a body bag and put him in the ambulance. And some rookie who. It was his first trip, felt like he saw a spark or something, and he unzipped the bag and starts trying to resuscitate him. He lost his job over this. The guys in the front are telling him to stop, you know. Well, anyway, they bring Benny back, and Vinnie was off somewhere having a walk through some heavenly realm with his great grandfather that he didn't recognize at the time. But he has what he calls the power hour. When somebody asked him at the end of his presentation, how do we connect with this? And he would say, you have this half hour when you're falling asleep, in this half hour when you're waking up where you can go in and out of being asleep and awake. And somewhere in here, in this middle place, is where some real felt sense of connection with who you truly are happens. And that place is beyond all inherited programs. It's a place where there's no lack, there's no suffering. And I do that when I'm in these places of reprogramming. I need that time of remembering that the real me is beyond all of this. All of this we're talking about is how to align in this life, to go through this life in a more beautiful way. My true essence is completely beyond. You can't even use words like beyond. There. There's just no words. And so I'm reminding myself of that on a daily basis during my 30 minutes, going to sleep in my 30 minutes, waking up. Yerasimos 01:34:14.140 - 01:34:14.940 Thanks, doc. Richard 01:34:16.459 - 01:34:58.850 And. And in Natasha's tradition, in the Indian tradition, they say that's a way of preparing for physical death. If people want to die peacefully, that's one of the exercises they can do, because it's also a loosening of all the identities that can make dying more miserable if a person's hanging on to a certain identity. And believe it or not, I've developed a couple of identities in 76 years. And some of them, I have some, you know, pretty good claws in, you know, so loosening those identities, that's what I'm up to right now. Joel 01:35:00.130 - 01:35:00.810 Amazing. Richard 01:35:00.810 - 01:35:48.760 Yeah, you guys are in the vigorous, vigorous, tough phase. You know, y' all are in the. Well, Natasha tells me I'm an andropause, and I think she's absolutely right. You Know, and it's, and I never, I never knew I would have such an affliction. I didn't think I would live this long. And, and you know, to come into this andropause which she says everything switches over and I no longer see things as territory. You know, males see things as territory until the switch happens. And so this is, this is a new spot for me, you know, so anyway, I'll leave that wait for Yalls comments about that. Joel 01:35:48.920 - 01:35:49.400 Yeah. Natasha 01:35:49.720 - 01:37:24.930 Explaining to Richard that, you know, when we understand biology through the lens of gurmanisha and also regular biology, you know, the, the male testosterone is halving every 10 years. And so around 73, 72, 73 is when a male will go through his andropause. So the female has menopause but then you've got, you know, the, the male, he becomes more feminine. So his estrogen rises and on the brain hemispheres of the temporal lobe he's running less territorial conflicts and they're sort of balancing out, which is really beautiful because usually the woman that you're with is going through menopause so she's going more into her territory and her masculinity. And the male gets to have this chapter, this initiation of life where he becomes soft and sensitive. And so, you know, and how beautiful it is to witness Richard as he's getting such visibility and his ability to hold space and to be that healer for so many. Right. Part of the beauty of working with Richard is just being in his space and being in his field of coherence. And so yeah, the andropause is giving this beautiful biochemical mirror of that by allowing you to, to go into a more sensitive and more soft area of your biology. And that comes with like anything. Anytime we get into a constellation or anytime we go through a menopause or this, we have like a three month window of just woo. Everything in our biology resetting. Richard 01:37:25.570 - 01:37:25.970 Yeah. Yerasimos 01:37:25.970 - 01:38:05.690 Hey Doc, do you feel like over the last several years you've been dropping in more. Do you feel your heart to your like emotions? Because like when I think of you even in our first episode together, I feel like Joel and I had tears in our eyes within the first 10 minutes. And like I, I second when Natasha said is like being around you. You know, we've, we've been in each other's company at, well, online and then at Confluence. And I feel like at Confluence, after Melissa's talk, we were chatting for a bit and like, you know, I got emotional again and so it's a testament to you and the journey you've been on and what you've been able to hold and evolve. But. But I guess I'm saying, are you noticing these shifts? Sure, we can name it. But have you been noticing in your own journey like this. This transformation within yourself? Richard 01:38:07.050 - 01:41:18.590 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And. And of course, a couple of things. You and I were set up at Confluence, you know, by. By people in your family on the other side, you know, because that. That conversation was so powerful. Just in that moment. I'm coming to see things more than that way. This is all a conspiracy, and. And they're conspiring for us. God dang it. You know, Hellinger would say that it's. It's way easier to struggle in life. It's easier to have an illness, it's easier to have a. A terrible fate in your life than to be open to original love and feel it. That's the. That's the big thing that we're. That, you know, our programming avoids, is feeling that original love. Of course. We are that original love. I want to tell you a funny story about it, though. In my second marriage, which as this was the same exact age difference as my dad's parents, that was the big story in our family. Of course, I didn't find all these things out till later, but anyways, beautiful young wife, 23 years younger than me. I'm an anesthesiologist. I have a Nordic Track and a big screen tv, and I come home from the operating room and I take a bunch of supplements and I get on the Nordic Track and I watch a Chuck Norris or Bruce Lee movie. And I'm in it. You know what I mean? I'm in it and I'm trying to get as buff as I can, wearing my Andre Agassi tennis shorts and going out and playing tennis and you know, and all that stuff, you know, and. And so I. I ran across some guy who was talking about progesterone and. And progesterone cream and what all kind of stuff it does. And I thought, that's got to be bs, Man. We would have heard about this in medical school or pharmacy school, you know, I mean, that can't be right. But then they start talking about how it would make your wrinkles go away and things like that. And I thought, wow, I'm getting a few crow's feet here, you know, I think I may try this stuff out, you know, So I start putting progesterone cream on parts of myself that I think are sagging, you know, and. And after. After a few Weeks of this. I remember the day I'm on my Nordic track, and. And she walks in and she goes, what is wrong with you? And I said, what do you mean? She said, you're crying and you're watching Steel Magnolias. And I had not even realized the shift. It was so gradual, you know, it was like I'd make. I'd made this fake andropause for myself, you know, like 40 years old. And it was a shock to her system. It was a shock to my system. And. And I would tell it as a joke, you know, when. Because a lot of women would come to me and complain about their husbands not, you know, being understanding or have any softness. And I'd say, man, just wait until he's asleep. You take this little jar here, and you just rub some in his feet every night and wait a couple of weeks. Yerasimos 01:41:21.070 - 01:41:32.910 That's funny. That's so funny. What a story. From Chuck Norris to Steel Magnolias, that was. That's a good movie, too. You know, I don't want to hate on that classic. Natasha 01:41:33.150 - 01:41:33.630 Yeah. Joel 01:41:35.790 - 01:41:54.390 The both of you, thank you so much for this beautiful conversation. Such an honor to bring you together. And I think what came up is super valuable, you know, for everyone listening as well. So just going to grab any closing comments that might be present, and then how people can connect to you and your work as well. I'll kick it off to Natasha. Natasha 01:41:56.150 - 01:42:48.750 Oh, wow. Well, first of all, I just say it's such a beautiful experience to. To have a mentor that speaks your own language. Right. One of the things that was so wonderful when I spent some time with Richard is just to have. To have someone witness my story who sees the world through almost the same eyes, you know, who could even point out things that maybe I hadn't noticed. And that's so powerful. And, you know, Richard beautifully always says this is really just shamanism, but we don't tell the white people that this is. This is really a field of psycho magic. But it's easier if you tell the white people that it's therapy, because, you know, therapy they will do. But if you tell them it's actually shamanism, then they might have some more resistance, you know. Joel 01:42:48.750 - 01:42:49.750 Well, not these days. Natasha 01:42:50.310 - 01:44:13.740 Yeah. And I was. I was even saying to Richard, you know, through my. Through my journey of wanting to accumulate as much wisdom as I can, I've always had these very strict sort of kick you in the butt kind of therapists. And there was a part of me that also started to incorporate that a little bit into my own practice. And it felt foreign on me to do that. It felt foreign on me to be the practitioner and the facilitator who would sort of gut punch in that way that sometimes that gestalt sort of therapy will do, right, or Jungian kind of way. And so having Richard come into my life sort of restored some order back to me as well, of we don't have to do it that way. And also this sort of idea that you're taking a framework and you're taking the lineage and then it's passed on to the next generation. And hopefully, just like in nature, every generation should be stronger than the one that came before. So also working with him allowed me to get more honest about the way in which I work and how to convey, you know, my own unique gift in a way that's more integrity of integrity and more truthful. So that has been such a beautiful experience too, to come into this work in that way. Yerasimos 01:44:15.180 - 01:44:15.660 Thanks. Natasha 01:44:17.500 - 01:44:23.620 So I thank you for that, Richard. I really do. I really do. Because it's. Richard 01:44:24.330 - 01:44:24.730 Thank you. Natasha 01:44:24.810 - 01:45:08.330 This is the field of love. And so when you can, when you can make that paramount in the field, that the field is not about strategy. Right. Some practitioners will go in with, with a strategy, but that's not the way. It's about being honest and allowing what's necessary to be revealed to have the access and the vessel and the containment to do that. And that's been so helpful to see it through those eyes. So Richard allowed me to see it through more clear eyes. And it's a real honor and privilege to have someone who does this framework to relay with. It's really awesome. Joel 01:45:09.290 - 01:45:13.050 Wow. How does that feel, Richard? Richard 01:45:16.820 - 01:45:24.580 I'm blessed every time I'm around her, so. And how do people find you, Natasha? Joel 01:45:25.140 - 01:45:26.500 Thank you for doing my job, Richard. Natasha 01:45:26.500 - 01:47:53.440 Yeah, you can find me at my website with which Joel did such an amazing job at. Because I'm not as technologically savvy. And so Joel just redesigned and streamlined all my, all my online platforms. So you can reach me@Natasha Nazarelli.com and you will also be able to find us in person at the GNM weekend. Joel and Erasmus are going to be joining us. We hope to get Richard joining us. He's got a very busy schedule, but we'll make what's meant to be happen there. So if you want to dive deeper into this work in person, that is such a wonderful opportunity to do so. And then I also teach an 11 week course program of German new medicine with Dr. Melissa Sell, who is just, you know, queen Bee of this work. And we do, you know, a very small, intimate container of women. We go through the entire female organ anatomy through the lens of German new medicine. And I use family systems therapy and family constellations throughout the 11 weeks as a tool to dive deeper into our feminine conflicts. So you'll also get a dose of that. And then I'm working on this October after the G and M weekend, launching a shorter five week program that allows you to merge family systems, family constellations with German new medicine and get an idea into how the constellations of the brain are, are relating to the constellations of the family. And Richard's going to come on for that for a little bit and also help and do a little module with us. So he'll do some Q and A. And yeah, I'm happy to support the work in any way that I can. Like Richard said, I'm a cheerleader for biology. But what's beautiful about it is like, what I really love to say is I'm not an expert. I'm actually an amateur. Because the word amateur means ama comes from love. To do something for the love of doing it right. And that's always my mission is, unlike Richard and unlike Dr. Melissa, I don't have these titles, but I have a love and a passion for the work. And so we can make it accessible to anybody who also has that love. Love too. Richard 01:47:53.680 - 01:47:54.120 Wow. Joel 01:47:54.120 - 01:47:56.720 You almost sound like a manifesto impacting the world. Richard 01:47:57.920 - 01:47:58.960 Yeah, There you go. Joel 01:48:00.080 - 01:48:06.400 Amazing, Natasha, amazing work as always. Doc, any closing statements? And how can people connect with you? Richard 01:48:08.240 - 01:49:55.340 Closing statements? Everybody's healing all the time. If any medical person starts out with anything less than declaring your magnificence, I would be suspicious of anything they say. Take every medical noun and change it into a verb. There are a lot of ways to do that, but change it into an action. Nouns don't change. If I focus on a noun, I'm going to be stuck with it for a long time. So I want to find out the verb how, what's the movement? Yeah, that's going on. And everything is a love story. Right. Which is one of the things I love about being around Natasha. You can kind of just feel that. But everything's a love story. And stay with it until the love story's found. When the love story is found, no matter what it was, that was the issue, you'll be surprised how it clears. I have a friend who made a landing page. There's some stuff on there I'm happy with, not happy with. So I just leave that off. People can Watch the podcast. Watch the podcast with, with you guys. Watch the one with Alec and I. I go on Instagram sometimes and I show some blood videos with some little short descriptions. So if people are interested in looking at that is designed to remind us of that basic stuff that everybody's healing all the time. And I think that's it for now. I'm gonna, you know, I finished doing some Andrew Paws reprogramming and who knows how I'll pop up after that. Yerasimos 01:49:56.700 - 01:50:12.170 What a blessing. What a blessing to share the space with with you all. I just have so much love for each of you and I just love the work that you're doing and, and just to witness and see the different generations here doing this powerful work. And you know, I'm just really excited for how things are going to unfold. Joel 01:50:12.570 - 01:50:22.010 Totally, totally echo that sentiment. Just quickly, Natasha, can you tell us a little bit more about GM weekend and what people can expect should they purchase a ticket and come to. Natasha 01:50:22.170 - 01:52:53.510 Yes, absolutely. So October 9th and 10th in Echo Park, Los Angeles, we have our annual two day G and M weekend event. So we do this every year. This is our Gathering of the Minds where we have workshops from different speakers. You know, we've got Mike Winner coming out to speak. We'll have hopefully Richard come and push forward as he's moving through this. Richard coming out to speak. We have, you know, Kylie, who's a birth worker coming out to speak. We've got Andy Locke Mears coming out to speak, who's an amazing G and M educator and practitioner. So no matter where you are on your G and M journey, actually many people come to these weekends completely brand new to the work. We've designed it so that it's an evolution so you'll be able to learn really basic foundational principles and then things that are more advanced. And in this weekend we've got no time limit on our venue, so we have tons of opportunities to connect with like minded people, community and to gather. We've got music uniting everyone as well and some DJs and offerings. And the schedule is going to be put out very soon. But you also have an option this year, which we've never done before, for a day pass. So if you can't make the full commitment of the two days, which is often ideal, but you are so also welcome to join us for the day. It's family friendly, you're welcome to bring your children to this event and it's just a really great opportunity to expand this community. And for a practitioner, what we notice, what the feedback we get is that each person that comes, they might have their own practice or modality that they already do. Right. And so they can learn German new medicine to benefit their practice and to be able to learn how to convey it in their own unique way, in a way that relates to what they might already be doing. Or for these amazing mothers and fathers to learn this wisdom so that they can pass it on and use it in their family home, which is so important. That's what we always strive to do. Even my own mother will be there this year. So we really hope to have all the people that can come out from for this. We're just welcoming it all. We have, we have lots of space for this one this year. So, yeah, I think it's one not to miss. Yerasimos 01:52:53.670 - 01:53:33.120 It's going be epic. You're coming to my neck of the woods, Los Angeles. Granted, Echo park is, is, you know, not super close to Tanga because everything's spread out in Los Angeles. But yeah, like Natasha said earlier, Joel and I are doing a talk for those of you that are familiar with this podcast. And my wife Sophie's also doing a talk and there'll be other people there, you know, providing their wisdom and their gifts and also just. I just love the community piece. You know me, I love community. I love bringing people together, you know, in this ever increasing digitized world, which is amazing. So many blessings we could have this conversation. We gotta stay connected, be in person, hug each other, laugh together. You know, powerful healing happens when we're in each other's presence. Joel 01:53:33.120 - 01:53:33.640 Definitely. Natasha 01:53:33.640 - 01:53:45.360 Yeah. We gotta be in the village. And that's where the whole family constellation stemmed from, right? Through understanding indigenous wisdom and how you would come together as a. A village to heal. So healing cannot be done in isolation. Yerasimos 01:53:46.000 - 01:53:46.880 Beautiful. Awesome. Joel 01:53:46.880 - 01:53:57.520 And every link mentioned we're going to have in the brief and in the show notes or wherever you're consuming this episode. Love you all. Thanks so much for listening. What an awesome conversation. And we'll see you next time. Take care.