Tiziano Sguerso The Language of the Soul

(0:00 - 0:08) Coming up in this episode... And you state, I still feel strength. Still feel strength. When I embrace you, father. (0:09 - 0:15) When I embrace you, father. Give me the strength. Give me the strength. (0:16 - 0:23) To do what I'm meant to do. To do what I'm meant to do. I love you, father. (0:24 - 0:28) I love you, father. You are my father. You are my father. (0:29 - 0:33) And I am your son. And I am your son. And that will never change. (0:35 - 0:48) And that will never change. You are now listening to the Year for the Truth podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Yerasimos. All right, everybody. (0:48 - 1:01) Welcome back to Year for the Truth. Today we have Tiziano Escuerzo joining us. He is a Family Constellations practitioner and something that he calls the language of the soul. (1:01 - 1:24) And what I just said, what a great guy, what a great vibe, what a great conversation, what a great connection. You guys are about to bear witness to live therapy sessions conducted both with me and Yerasimos in our own different ways. And he has a way of hitting the nail on the head, getting deep, really finding out where the blockage is or where the resistance is. (1:24 - 1:51) And it's very interesting considering the importance of the family system is something that's really come up for me through this conversation and really contemplating how much of our lives, who we are, what we do, is a continuation of that original system of belonging. Yeah. I want to add to that too, is that I just think it's interesting because I feel like what happens often is things can get very polarized. (1:51 - 2:01) And so I feel like we're hearing more and more about nothing in your past impacts you. You don't need to focus on it. And things that happen from ancestors don't impact you. (2:02 - 2:17) And I just think he presents things that show things in a much more holistic manner. And like you said, we come to this realization, like our lineage and where we come from lives in us. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. (2:18 - 2:44) You guys are gonna get so much value out of this. Just one kind of request, if you're down to support and help us, wherever you're listening to this right now, whether it's Spotify, whether it's Apple Podcasts, whatever the distribution channel is that you're listening to this, if you can hit the follow button, that would mean the absolute world to us, to this podcast, and to everything that we're trying to build. And with all that being said, guys, please enjoy this episode. (2:45 - 3:15) Tiziano Esquerizo is a systemic practitioner and family constellations expert dedicated to helping individuals unlock their full potential by bridging body, soul and the morphogenetic field. He guides people in breaking free from limiting patterns, navigating life's complexities and unlocking their inner strength. With a global journey of personal growth and insights, Tiziano's passion lies in constant learning and study of the systemic therapeutic approach known as the language of the soul. (3:15 - 3:20) Tiziano, thanks for being here for the truth. So glad to have you with us today. My pleasure, boys. (3:20 - 3:23) My pleasure. Look forward to this. Yeah, absolutely, man. (3:23 - 3:49) The energy for this one's very good already. One way I always like to kick this off is I want to dive deep into your personal hero's journey. So what are some of the major rites of passage and the catalyzing moments on your path that led you to becoming who you are today and doing this work? It was definitely created by some disasters that happened in my upbringing. (3:49 - 4:09) I would say, Joe, that the catalyst majorly was the divorce of my parents, which happened around seven to eight, nine years old. The divorce was quite tragic. There was violence involved, a lot of rage from my mom, obviously anger and rage from my father as well. (4:10 - 4:28) And that led me to my teenage years where I didn't have a father figure, a leader figure, let's say. So as every teenager, I was seeking the leader into the area in which I was living. The area was quite well known for criminality. (4:28 - 4:49) So I got into that experience myself because like every kid, like every teenager, I was seeking love. I was seeking acceptance. So I could see that who were the leader in my area, who were the guys that everybody was speaking about, the criminal, the violent, the drug dealer. (4:49 - 4:55) So I was like, okay, cool. If I embrace their journey, they're going to love me too. They're going to respect me too. (4:55 - 5:05) You know, the word respect, which these days I obviously relate in a very different way. But at the time I was relating respect, which was fear out of love. You know, like, oh, they fear them. (5:06 - 5:16) So they love them. So do you think like the kingpin was like the surrogate father? Yes. That big time was a surrogate father figure. (5:17 - 5:29) I was seeking the father figure. Eventually, I started in that kind of dynamic, like seeking acceptance in the area. And then that led me to the beta, I would say. (5:29 - 5:37) So I started to go to the gym. I started to become a professional kickboxer. And I got professional quite quickly. (5:37 - 5:51) Let's say after a couple of years that I was fighting, I started to fight professionally. And that eventually led me to many more things which are the pinnacle point in my life. And eventually, they led me to Australia, let's say. (5:52 - 6:10) So in Australia, I was still fighting professionally. When I arrived here, I was about 25, let's say. Then I embraced a little bit more on a business journey, which was another pinnacle point for me because I went in profound debt with one of my business, which was related to combat sports. (6:10 - 6:24) And that profound debt led me to self-development. So in the self-development journey, I have discovered this beautiful practice that I embrace today, which is family constellations. And it really took me, guys. (6:24 - 6:31) It really took me like my curiosity, my heart. I was really like, oh, I want to know more about it. I want to know more about it. (6:31 - 6:45) And eventually, this constant curiosity in my field led me to more and more and more until where I am today. And I took it in my path, and I took it in full in 2019. And yeah, the rest is history. (6:46 - 6:56) What initially drew you to it? Before we get there, what led to the shift from Italy to Australia? I'm curious. Well, yeah, that too. And also, yeah, it's good you brought that up. (6:56 - 7:08) Also, when I keep thinking about criminality, once you go in, you can't get out. So how was that process? Give us some juice, Tiziana. Give us some stories, please. (7:08 - 7:13) Well, I got out because I got arrested. No names, no names. Because I got arrested. (7:13 - 7:21) That is how I got out. Not only that, guys. I got arrested very soon when I was 18. (7:23 - 7:37) Because the reason for the arrest, the reason was kidnapping and possession of a gun and aggression and on and on. But it was more of a gang against another gang. You know what I mean? Like red against the blue. (7:37 - 7:44) That was the common dynamic. And it was all about ego at the time. So I got arrested when I was 18. (7:45 - 7:59) That eventually was a big slap, you know, because I started to see, do I belong here in jail with these people? I don't feel like I belong here. Not that I would say I'm more intelligent or something, but I was different. I had a good mother and a good father. (7:59 - 8:24) Despite the difficulties that they had, I had some form of love and leading figure at home. Despite I was refusing it, despite I was seeking something more because I was not accepted when I was 13, 14 years old. Eventually, when I got out of house arrest, I started again my career as a kickboxer, which I interrupted for a few years due to what happened to me. (8:25 - 8:46) But that led me to another catastrophe, which was a profound depression, which I experienced around 21, 22, something like that. I guess, guys, the depression was kind of my soul telling me, hey, Tiziano, stop being, stop pretending to be who you are not. You are a very loving child. (8:46 - 8:59) You have always been a loving kid. You have always been soft and loving and compassionate, the willingness to open your heart to others. What happened to you that you closed your heart? So that was very hard for me. (8:59 - 9:12) I got into benzodiazepine and everything to numb my body for years, between 22 to 26. I still came in Australia that I was taking benzodiazepine. Nobody knew at the time. (9:13 - 9:23) Eventually, I stopped taking them because I couldn't go to the doctor to take it. In Italy, I was taking it out of other markets. So that was easy in Italy. (9:23 - 9:35) But here, I couldn't play in that way. Why did you move to Australia? I moved because I was with one of my best friends. We watched a Netflix series called Spartacus. (9:36 - 9:50) And one of the actors, Manu Bennett, is from New Zealand. So for some reason, one evening, we were like, oh, you know, let's go, let's do something. You know, like, let's move. (9:50 - 9:56) I kind of wanted to escape, Joel, to be honest. I wanted to escape my reality in Italy. And I did escape. (9:56 - 10:02) And eventually, it worked out well. Wow, that's amazing. All because of a Netflix television show. (10:02 - 10:16) It's amazing. It's fascinating because the catalysts that change your life and ultimately lead you to your deeper purpose, it's so random. You know what I mean? It's not like, which is incredible. (10:16 - 10:27) I think that's even more divine than anything else. Yeah, and then you wonder, is it random? Yeah, exactly. What is it within your spirit and your soul that goes, oh, I like this character. (10:27 - 10:32) I like this actor from New Zealand. I like the actor. Like, let's go to that place. (10:33 - 10:47) See, guys, it's beautiful what you're saying, because you never know with your words or what you're doing, how you can inspire others. Like, you're really fully guided. Even an actor from a Netflix movie could inspire me to come over here. (10:48 - 10:53) Yeah, it's been beautiful. And, you know, yeah. Cool, man. (10:53 - 11:18) Well, back to your asking us the question, I guess, what was it about Family Constellations that drew you in and any other specifics you might have? Well, yeah. And like, what, like, did you meet someone who said, hey, Tiziano, have you heard of something called Family Constellations? Like, how did you first come across it? I had a friend of mine. Well, first of all, my ex-partner at the time, she was already into self-development, not spirituality, but she was already into self-development. (11:18 - 11:39) So I was very curious and she kind of led me to discover more law of attraction, this and that, you know, like I was already in that path. Eventually, a friend of mine told me, you know, Tiz, you had quite a colorful past and very colorful, he knows it all. He might know everything is maybe not belong only to you. (11:39 - 11:49) Something comes from your family. There is this German psychotherapist that discovered this practice called Family Constellation, this and that. He introduced me a little bit to it. (11:49 - 11:59) So I was like, you know, taken by it. Like, I'm curious. Do you know anybody who does this practice? Yes, I just saw a lady who is doing this practice here in Sydney. (11:59 - 12:13) Maybe you should take a look. And, you know, again, another call, like Manu Bennett on the Netflix movie, I got called by it, like, oh, let's go. So I booked my ticket and I went and that Sunday was probably the biggest shift of my life. (12:13 - 12:31) Well, what happened in that session? At the time, I was almost 120,000 euro in debt with one of my company. And this story is quite known now because I record so many podcasts and stuff about this. But so basically, I present my case to this persona. (12:32 - 12:43) Like I introduced who I am, what I was doing, and this and that, and why I was called to do that. And she asked me a very weird question. Like she asked me, like, somebody died in your family. (12:44 - 12:56) And I said, yes, my father's brother died when he was 15, quite tragically. He was hit by a car and he died suddenly. He obviously died on the spot. (12:57 - 13:12) And as soon as I told her that, she was drawn to do this, what we call a representation in family constellations. So she placed a representative of my uncle on the field in front of everybody. There was a big group of like 20, 30 people. (13:12 - 13:29) And I started to cry like a baby. I really started to, I felt this deep sadness and emotion inside my body that was taken out of my body. Like, what's going on in me? Like, you know, like at the time I wasn't where I am now, spiritually, you know, in consciousness. (13:29 - 13:48) So I really got taken by this scenario and I cried for like a good 10 minutes. When I left that room, guys, I felt liberated in about one and a half year after that experience. I paid my debt in full and I completely changed my life. (13:48 - 14:00) And I left the kickboxing, personal training. I was training famous people here in Sydney. I was quite well known in the combat sports industry, particularly on the personal training area over those years. (14:00 - 14:06) So I was well set. But I had another call like, I wanna do this. I'm called to do this. (14:06 - 14:15) That's what I wanna do. So I really left the personal training experience and I dive into this because it changed my life. Wow. (14:16 - 14:34) Can you give an explanation on what exactly is Family Constellations? Because I came across it. When did it first come out? Because I first came across it a long time ago, like maybe 20 plus years ago, I think, or around there. And I think I might've taken a small little single day workshop. (14:35 - 14:45) But I'd love to go deeper into it. Like, you know, who created it? What is it about? Whatever. Yeah, like where did it come from? Its origin story as well would be interesting. (14:45 - 15:01) Yes, and I'm very happy, guys, to dive into this because not many people speak about it. So Family Constellations is a psychotherapeutic approach, which we call phenomenological. And it has been observed and developed by Bert Hellinger. (15:02 - 15:14) This is not saying that it has been discovered by him. He took the idea and the observation from other therapists. But he got fascinated about it, I am fascinated about it. (15:14 - 15:35) And he started to develop more and discover more about that. Around the 2000, 2000, 2005, those were the years where he brought acknowledgement of this practice to the surface. Eventually, he died in 2019, bringing to the surface roughly around 100, 110 books, something like that. (15:35 - 15:44) A lot of those books are written in Italian. They've been translated in Italian by one of his students. Not so many are in English language. (15:45 - 15:53) They are about 30, 25, 30 books in English language. But in Italian, we have many more. So we've been really lucky, okay, out of that. (15:53 - 16:11) What is Family Constellation? Family Constellation comes from the German terminology Familienstellen, which means order in the family, okay? The observation of the order in the family. So we call it also systemic approach. Why? Because the system is the family. (16:12 - 16:29) We observe the system of belonging, the family of origin. How it is pursuing to the room, we allow what we call the morphogenetic field to play out. The morphogenetic field is this field of information which contain us all. (16:29 - 16:49) And when we stay in silence and we connect to our feeling, we are guided by what Bert Hellinger acknowledges the spirit, okay? The spirit more on a spiritual terminology. But in reality, quantum physics call it morphogenetic field. We know that 99% of us is energy. (16:50 - 17:13) That's what quantum physics acknowledge to us. So when we are taken by this scenario, by this morphogenetic field, we start to perceive emotion, feelings, thought of the person that we are embodying. Let's say that I'm playing Gerasimos' grandfather and I'm placing the field. (17:13 - 17:36) If I stay silent and what we call concentration, I start to perceive perhaps what his grandfather perceived, what happened there, which thoughts, which emotion are coming to the surface. Obviously, in order to do that, we need to have an intertwined experience between my system of belonging and Gerasimos' system of belonging. That is the beauty of this work. (17:36 - 17:46) So we combine in a unique intelligence and unique field of information. We are all connected. What spirituality would call love, religion would call God. (17:46 - 18:14) And again, quantum physics, morphogenetic field. So when we play some parts, some sabotaging dynamic in our life, and we don't know where they come from, through the use of this morphogenetic field, we are able to understand what's really going on on a deeper level. Why I keep seeking this lady that she abandoned me? Because my grandfather, perhaps, has abandoned somebody during war. (18:15 - 18:27) So I keep searching for this woman who my grandfather abandoned. And I keep manifesting these women that they abandoned me. Because perhaps I pay some guilt out of what my grandfather did. (18:27 - 18:42) And this is the beauty of acknowledging, bringing to the surface things that we completely numb about it. Why I keep doing this dynamic? Through the use of the morphogenetic field, we bring an answer to that. We acknowledge what is. (18:42 - 18:49) This is what Bert Hellinger call it. We acknowledge what is, not what we think it is. What is. (18:49 - 19:20) And so like, for example, the actions of the grandfather, even if they were never consciously perceived by, I guess, Gerasimos, in this example like that, you're saying that carries through the family line, the history, the lineage? We do carry not only on a morphogenetic level, but we literally carry the imprint of our system into our bones, into our tissue. We know how to deal with situation because we have it into the body. Yes, on a morphogenetic level, yes. (19:20 - 19:31) We carry the memory. The most impactful lineage are obviously the first two or three. The father, the parents, the grandparents, great-grandparents. (19:31 - 19:41) But I experienced personally up to six, seven generation, and Bert Hellinger acknowledge to us that we go as up as 11th generation. Wow. Yeah. (19:42 - 20:02) How would that look in like a session? Like, oh, how would you know that you're being impacted by sixth, seventh, eighth generation? You know? This is an intelligent question, Gerasimos. And that's why I always say people who come to family constellation, they must have an issue. If you don't have an issue, there's nothing to resolve. (20:02 - 20:13) So don't go to family constellation if you don't have an issue. But I'm confident and certain that everybody has an issue in their life. That is why I say the best person to help is the one desperate enough. (20:14 - 20:34) So when someone with an issue comes to a family constellation and present the case, the observer is guided towards obviously inner feeling to ask some question. What happened to your mother? What happened to your father? What happened to your grandfather? Until we feel the click. The click is an inner guidance, an inner feeling. (20:35 - 20:42) You feel cool. Oh, that is the relative that we need to bring to the surface. And eventually you make trials, Gerasimos. (20:42 - 20:55) Like choose somebody to be a representative of your father, grandfather, great-grandfather. When you bring them into the field, you see their reaction, you observe. That is why a therapist in family constellation is called observer. (20:56 - 21:15) We observe the moment of the field. In my personal practice, in the way I pursue it, I use a lot of words. So when someone comes into the field, how I allow the interrupted movement to restore, I allow love to flow again, sadness to be released through the use of words. (21:15 - 21:26) So I allow you to state the certain words that allow the emotion to come to the surface. For example, I give you a quick one. I stay towards my father, I die for you. (21:27 - 21:44) This is a profound statement that when I state it, if that statement is truth, I come up with tears, with sadness. I release the sadness. Once I release the emotion that traps me and keeps me distant, I can reunite with that individual, in this case, my father, for example. (21:46 - 22:04) So if you're working with someone in a group setting, there are other people that can play these roles of different family members. But if you're working, let's say one-on-one, let's say I hit you up on Zoom and say, Tiziana, let's work on something. How does that look differently? It works in exactly the same way, Erasmus. (22:04 - 22:23) I allow the person to close their eyes and I use visualization. So they close their eyes and through the use of words, again, I allow the emotion to come to the surface and you feel it immediately. Like the good things, guys, about constellation, that you cannot play them out. (22:23 - 22:32) You cannot create them. Or they work or they not. You see, you feel when you state something, the other person release tears, emotion, sadness. (22:33 - 22:38) They feel shivers. They have literally a physical reaction. They literally have a physical reaction. (22:39 - 22:48) And that is until you feel the movement brings peace. Usually peace is brought when there are big release in deep breath. You feel them. (22:48 - 23:06) They calm, you feel calmer, the observer feel calmer. So you see that love flows again. And in a Druid setting, like any of the attendees become qualified to be a representative, is that right? Even without any prior experience, et cetera? Better. (23:06 - 23:24) If they don't have prior experience, better because they don't place their mind inside it. And I always say to people, the best representatives is Bob from the office who doesn't know nothing about family constellation, neither spirituality. Because when you know something about spirituality, you start to use your mind. (23:25 - 23:32) That's why I always do blind constellation. Sometimes I don't even tell them the roles. I place them into it. (23:33 - 23:42) So they are only guided by their body, by their feeling. And they don't put their mind into it. However, the facilitator is there, the observer to feel. (23:43 - 23:55) So if somebody is moving out of alignment, out of harmony, the observer feels it. So you can interrupt and you can substitute them or you can ask them concentration. Close your eyes, concentrate again. (23:55 - 24:02) See what you feel. Now a short break from the episode. Yo, what's up guys? Hope you're enjoying this conversation. (24:03 - 24:11) I just want to give a quick shout out to our incredible membership community, Friends of the Truth. This place is bubbling. It's thriving. (24:11 - 24:39) Just sovereign individuals coming together, really building deep connections, really united by politically incorrect humor, which is something that I thoroughly enjoy inside our private Telegram channel. Not to mention, we're jumping on community calls twice a month, getting deep. Our people are connecting, jumping in breakout rooms, having a laugh, meeting other people, and just learning and gaining so much wisdom and education in the process as well. (24:39 - 24:57) The entire slate every month is actually five calls and the whole thing is only $17 per month. It's like the price of a sandwich to hang out with us, to jump in our Telegram group. An LA sandwich? A Los Angeles sandwich? To jump on five calls a month and not to mention get the 200 plus hours of previously recorded content. (24:57 - 25:24) Every month we do a live members only podcast with a previous guest as well. The guest podcast for April is Kirsten Cobabe from episode 226 and our members gonna get the chance to interact with her and it's always a fun time. So if you're down to take a step deeper, come hang out, come catch a vibe, then hereforthetruth.com forward slash F-O-T-T and you can join us for only $17 a month inside Friends of the Truth. (25:25 - 25:38) Back to the episode. So obviously all of us come from parents and we have a family. We do. We do. You've done this for how many years now? Seven. Seven years. (25:38 - 26:02) Seven, eight, yeah. Are there certain themes and patterns or common themes that you see that keep coming to you over and over again as you're working with people and working in these settings where different representatives are playing mom, dad, grandfather, whatever? Are there certain general ones where you go, that usually comes up very often? Big time, absolutely. My field of expertise, Erasmus, is relationships. (26:02 - 26:32) So the majority of dynamic which I encounter is when parents split, divorce, or there are a dispute between parents and children are in between them. So sometimes they sabotage themselves because their parents are arguing at home and they feel they need to be there to keep their parents together so they cannot live their life in joy in full. Yesterday, for example, I was working with an Italian guy who is a soccer player. (26:32 - 26:46) And he was telling me, Tizia, I always achieve a certain level of success, but then I sabotage it. So I went back into his story. I said, what happened at home? And he told me my mom and dad, they were constantly arguing. (26:46 - 27:12) So I always had to be accountable for them, always need to be there, serious, and to try to keep them together. I couldn't enjoy, I couldn't express my joy as a teenager, as a child. So every time he was reaching this level of success, he was going back to this dynamic that he needs to be serious and he cannot enjoy what he developed, what he achieved, because he needs to be there for his parents. (27:12 - 27:21) How do I release that? By allow him to let his parents go. I can't do nothing for you guys. I cannot be there. (27:22 - 27:29) I cannot keep you together. If you want to separate, separate, but I step away. And that encounter a lot of sadness for him. (27:29 - 27:39) He cried a lot. Why? Because children are the one who love the most. So they try to keep everything together, even in despair, even in desperation, even if they have to sabotage themselves. (27:39 - 27:50) But once we release that sadness of that love that couldn't make it, we are free. That is a common theme, for example, children in between parents. Yeah. (27:51 - 28:11) What are some of the most like, I guess, profound or powerful breakthroughs that you've kind of witnessed in your own practice? Again, there are people that they are together since 10 years in a horrible situation, and they come to do a constellation the day after they break. And six months, they find their partner of their life. They get married again and have kids. (28:12 - 28:30) These are the biggest dynamic, you know, when people stay together. I tell you something important, guys. There are knowledge over the years, like in a relationship, for example, when a man is with a woman and there is order into the relationship, the man feel more man and the woman feel more woman. (28:30 - 28:41) When there is no order into the relationship, they are both dragged down. The man become less man, more of a kid, and the woman become more of a father figure. She becomes more masculine. (28:42 - 28:52) So those are the biggest breakthrough. When they are together since three, four, five, seven, 10 years, but there's no order, they are both dragged down. Maybe he's in debt. (28:52 - 29:13) Maybe she looks old and she get even into illness sometimes. That is an experience that I have encountered and I see myself. But when they break this, when they see into their family system what keeps them together, which loyalty bond them that they cannot leave that loyalty and they break it, they free. (29:14 - 29:20) And in a matter of months, they become like new people. It's like they lost 10 years. That's it. (29:21 - 29:51) Yeah. How do you help people get out of the victim mentality? You know, so often when we talk about like ancestral trauma and things being passed down through generations, very often people can just be like, oh, well, this is just in my lineage and like there's nothing I can do about it. And like, how do they kind of step more into being more personally responsible and understanding that they can kind of make these shifts and changes? Like you see that play out that dynamic with your clients and in the workshops that you do? Big time, big time. (29:51 - 30:06) Victimhood erasimus is a choice of living without courage. And generally when somebody choose to live without courage, they sabotage for somebody else, generally their mother. And they cannot take their father in full. (30:06 - 30:23) Father is courage. But when someone take their parents, take their mother in full and they decide to embrace that action in life, to embrace their father in full, they can embrace this courage. And courage usually comes up when somebody plays in victimhood into desperation. (30:24 - 30:41) When someone is desperate enough, becomes courageous because they have no more grip anywhere. When people have a lot of copy mechanism, erasimus, like, oh, I go in desperation, but I play this copy mechanism. I'm going desperation and I play this other copy mechanism. (30:41 - 31:00) But when they have no more copy mechanism because everything has fallen apart, they can go really into desperation and from that embrace courage. And then from this victimhood become empowered out of their life, doing something good out of that. Victimhood is a form of existence absent of courage. (31:01 - 31:33) And generally, as I said, sabotaging for somebody else. So would you say that primarily this work is necessary because of unmet needs in childhood? Like, is that the primary reason why this work would even be a thing? Why would it even be necessary? The reason why this work is necessary is because I feel everybody had some form of difficulties into their family of origin. Needs are certainly, Joel, a good word. (31:34 - 31:52) However, we go through what we are meant to experience. I give you an example. If I wouldn't have gone to this dynamic where my father was violent with my mom, for example, I would not be able to serve thousands and thousands of women as I do these days online, in person, worldwide. (31:53 - 32:05) So we always go through what we are meant to go through. This work allow us, Joel, to get out of the dark side and bring the dark side to light. That is how I see this work. (32:05 - 32:20) Because some people go through the dark, which they meant to go through the dark, although they remain there, they don't make an impact out of that. So they remain in that dark experience without bringing the good out of it. This work allows you to bring the good. (32:20 - 32:43) So to restore harmony where harmony was interrupted. Well, that's like the, you could say, I know we talk about this, Joel, like the final stage of the hero's journey is that like, sure, you can go into the underworld, face the challenges, but then what do you bring back? What gold do you give to those into the world? You know, sure, you can keep it for yourself. But at the end of the day, like I've gone through this journey. (32:43 - 32:46) I've learned these lessons. I've seen my mentors. I've healed. (32:47 - 33:01) What's my gift? Turn my greatest wound into my greatest gift that so many people talk about. That is, again, as I said before, courage. Some people go through this, but they remain stuck into the experience. (33:01 - 33:15) And perhaps they keep self-developing without bringing out their own gift. But where do we bring out our own gift? Into our family of origin. There's no system such as Tiziano-Guerzo system or Ierassimo system or Joel system. (33:15 - 33:28) The three of us, we have individuality. Where did we take our individuality? In our family of origin. Which individuality did we take? What do we give to the world? Our experiences. (33:28 - 33:45) We are informed by what? By our experiences. What we give, what I'm giving to this conversation, to you two and to your listener, my experiences. I have nothing more than my system of belonging to a soul level. (33:45 - 33:54) I am only my system of belonging. I have no chain, no t-shirt, no paint. I am my system of belonging. (33:54 - 34:04) You are your system of belonging. What is your system of belonging? Your experiences. So you give, you offer your system of belonging, your experiences. (34:09 - 34:44) So do you think that we carry individuality beyond the system of belonging? Like on a deeper soul level or whatever it might be? Or is who we are and what we express purely coming from that foundation? Well, it's like you asking to a tree, what do you bring out as a fruit? You can only bring what comes from your roots. Like, yes, I am shaped by the external reality. But what is shaped in me? My experiences, my system of belonging. (34:44 - 34:56) I am my family of origin. That is why I say when people come to workshop, like I refuse my family, I refuse my mom, I refuse my dad. If you refuse your father, you become alpha person. (34:56 - 35:03) If you refuse your mother, you become alpha person. Why? Because you are alpha of your father. You are alpha of your mother. (35:03 - 35:12) You are half the system of your father, half the system of your mother. If you refuse one of them, you become alpha person. I thought you said you were saying alpha. (35:12 - 36:38) Exactly. I thought you were saying alpha. I was like, wow, you just have to refuse your mom and your dad and you become alpha? It's amazing. That is my Italian accent. I love it. How do you go about helping an individual bring acceptance to maybe a relationship with a father or a mother that has been so traumatic where, you know, they want to reject them completely because they felt rejected completely because they felt attacked. They felt as though their innocence was kind of, you know, taken from them, etc. And also to follow that up, do you believe forgiveness is necessary? Like what role does forgiveness play in family constellations? So the words that come to the surface is acceptance. How do I accept my father if he has been violent, for example, or he has treated me poorly? Through compassion. How do I develop compassion through more informations? So what happened to my father because he became violent? Why did he become violent? Through family constellation, I can see what happened behind him, behind him, so I can understand why he behaved in a certain way. So through compassion, I can accept the behavior of my father. But pay attention to this, which is super important. (36:39 - 39:38) Accepting doesn't mean forgiving. Forgiving is I atone your action, dad. And by atoning his action, I also atone his guilt and I take away his dignity with that. Rather than actually forgiving, I accept my father's action, which means I leave you with the consequences of your actions. But I have a spot in my heart for you as you are my father. That is a way more simplistic explanation and allows him to remain my father. I give him his responsibility as my father and I take mine as a son. Every parent is the perfect parent for their children and every child is a child for their parents. Perfect means that we are perfect for the experience of the soul that we are meant to have on one another. Make sense? Yeah. So would you say that on a deeper level, like we're choosing the experiences when we're coming into our family of origin? That is right. I would say that we come into our family of origin because we have chosen the experience. So that comes prior. We choose the family in which we incarnate, in which we come based on the experience we are meant to have. So we've been having this conversation on some recent podcasts. There's a phrase that I want to bring up to you and see what you think about it. And it's this phrase that has triggered some people, but you get what you deserve, or maybe a little bit more neutral. You get what you need. Can you share your thoughts on those two statements? Big time. You get what you deserve means that you face the consequence of your actions. If I'm a mother and I abandon my son and I might be rejected by my family of origin, I face the consequence of that, of my actions, which I get what I deserve. I get what I need is out of those consequences, I can make something good about it. So when I'm rejected by my family of origin, I can develop my own strength and bring my experience of what I've gone through in service to others. Makes sense, Erasmus, the difference? It makes sense to me. I mean, I tend to align with what you said. And I think it's also the most empowering way to look at things that like, you know, life is happening for you, that you have these experiences, you have these traumatic experiences. Now, that being said, it may take a journey to get to that place, because I'm also not an advocate of spiritually bypassing and immediately going into, oh, yes, this happened for a reason. This is my medicine. This is great. I got what I deserved, as opposed to, you know, shit happens. You have to go through the process of feeling the things that go along with that personal experience and how you relate to that. But on a grander cosmic level, it's for me, again, this is my opinion, it's more empowering for me to believe, like, all the experiences that I have, the things that show up in my reality, I deserve that. Like, I'm getting the things that I need for my hopeful, hopeful further growth and evolution. (39:40 - 40:10) Through the use of the morphogenetic field through family constellation, I have observed over the years that human free will is very limited. We are constantly guided by this great spirit inside us, meeting the person there, meeting, being invited to go in another state for a worship, and this and that. Everything is like a big puzzle, and there is this greater intelligence behind that, beyond the true feelings, thoughts and experience, it constantly lead us. (40:11 - 46:08) And you see right away, Erasmus, when somebody get out of the intention of this field, something happened to them, like car crash, accident, illness, something that brings them back into line. That is what I have observed over the seven years into family constellations. Yeah. What's your favorite part about doing this work? I know you were drawn to it years ago, but like, what, like, excites you the most? What inspires you? What excites me the most is the feeling I have in my heart when love is reunited, when love flows again. Inside the group, Erasmus, you see the most beautiful release of tears, the daughter that reconnects with the father, the grandfather reconnects with the mother. Like, for me, this experience of love is blissful. It's like a psychedelic to me when I do a work. I literally go to worship, like I go to Disneyland for me. Everybody knows my excitement in that, these days. But really, I go to worship, curious, what is going to happen today? What I'm going to see today? I literally, it's my biggest call every morning when I wake up, like I look forward to write my post to just really, it has just really taken me. I thought, you know, kickboxing and Muay Thai and combat sports was my purpose because I really like to train. But since I discovered this, that is completely taken. Like, I am of service to others. Have you found that certain types of people get drawn to mixed martial arts and fighting? And that once they go through a certain level of, let's say, evolution or personal growth, work or healing, that maybe like their connection to it or their relationship to it isn't what it was? And maybe they go down different paths? Like, it seems like a certain type of person's like, I want to go and punch and kick people in the face for my life. Yeah, I always say before somebody becomes a therapist, I mean, all of my mates that they are therapists, the good one, they've gone through some kind of rough martial arts because it's a search of an authority figure, you know, an authority figure, protection. So he's always leading towards some form of authority figure, father role. You want to laugh? Who was that sent me to martial arts? My father. When I was six, he sent me to karate and he never done himself, but he sent me there because on a soul level, he knew perhaps I need leadership. I need guidance. I needed somebody to tell me what to do. Yeah. So, I want to go back to the, like, the mother, father, the, you know, half a person kind of thing. So, like, do you think, like, a person can, like, become whole without this work, without having to, like, communicate or accept or whatever it might be the figure? It's like, because I feel like some people, they might have these traumatic experiences, they might have these unmet needs in their upbringing, and then they kind of resolve it by being like, but fuck that. Like, I am whole within myself. I will love myself. I will give myself the courage, fatherly guidance, structure. I will give myself love, caring, nourishment. You know, I don't, I didn't, I didn't get it from anywhere else, so I'll give it to myself. What do you think of that kind of stance? There are two answers to this, Joel. The first one is the majority of people that they believe they find found wholeness, they actually found open mechanism. So, they couldn't take their mother, so they brought somebody into their life who manifests their mother, for example, their partner. But this is a very tricky experience. Why? Because once they integrate their mother, if their soul leads them to integrate their mother, they lose attraction for this mother figure, which could be their partner. This is one of the answer out of this question. The second one, Joel, is the field is informed. What it means? It means that it brings you archetype to embody what you did not take from your family of origin. For example, I didn't take my father, so he brought me the criminal of the area to embody that archetype, see? Or after the criminal, he brought me something more harmonious, the coach at kickboxing. After that, the businessman. After that, the leader into the spiritual field, see? Like he brought me into the archetypes of what I did not take at the root, my father. Make sense? Yeah. So, you're saying ultimately what's happening is there's this process of completing the puzzle of if you don't embody or integrate a part of you or an archetype or you disown something or repress something, you're going to find it. This field is going to bring these people, these situations towards you to highlight, hey, integrate me into your life. Something of that nature? That is very accurate. Bert Hellinger brought a very profound statement which says that there is a great spirit which moves, this great force moves in only one direction, which is to reunite that which was separated. So, everything that is not integrated at the source in the past into the experience comes into the field organically through archetypes for you to embody. And this field constantly moves towards reunion. That is why I say you broke up with somebody and you haven't spoken despite love, don't worry about it. In two, three, four, five, six, seven years, six months, it will come back into your life. Why? The field is informed and it has a master command. It brings reunion. If you sit on the couch in silence and you observe your life and you can write it down on a paper, I guarantee you that you see that what you did not take at the source, what was separated unconsciously, you brought into reunion. (46:09 - 46:34) Yeah, that's something that I've kind of had an insight about, you know, is like whatever's unconscious within us, we tend to magnetize towards us in outward experiences, you know, because I feel like the field or God or the universe, like it wants to wake up that which is unconscious. It wants to bring it forward into the light. So, we keep attracting these circumstances which are ultimately opportunities if we're courageous enough to kind of integrate. (46:35 - 47:08) Oh, you go. Sometimes I say, even if you are not courageous, you are brought this to the, like it really brings you to the surface, like it's almost forceful the opportunity. Then obviously, if you are courageous, you can embrace it. Otherwise, you reattempt. If you keep going into the relationship, that horrible relationship, you keep having it again and again and again, because you're not integrating it. Well, that's what I was going to say is that relationship is the greatest teacher in this even primary relationship, because so often it's like, you know, we have our personality, it develops how it develops in the ways that we've been talking about so far. (47:08 - 47:42) And then we very often attract the opposite in our life. And it doesn't mean we have to change and become that, but they have the medicine for us to just integrate or as like I like to say, take a homeopathic dose, a little dose of the quality that the person's holding for us to go, okay, I don't need to just like project onto it and have this person carry it for me 100%. I could have it in me as well. And we can have a more conscious, healthy relationship instead of this kind of codependent dynamic, which in the beginning seems amazing. And then afterwards, the differences repulse you. That happens often in relationships. (47:43 - 48:51) What is a codependency Erasmus? I always bring this. It's been one of my latest workshop. You manifest something that was not integrated in my family of origin. For example, I'm dependent of you because you give me the love I didn't take from my mother or the acknowledgement I didn't take from my mother or from my father. A lot of men that they not develop yet as men, but they still a boy on a soul level, they take acknowledgement from their woman because they didn't take their father. So they can't find their value within. So they are given value by their partner. And that is why when they find their value within their partner, lose attraction, lose polarity. Why? Because they were there only because they were giving to them acknowledgement value. This is the most common dynamic that I see in relationship. The most common. So once a person starts getting like intrinsic value that they take for themselves, all that validation that they were getting from their partner is not needed. So then it's like, what's the point? Accurate. You lose attraction, you know, like you lose like the reason for the relationship to exist is no longer there. So if you lose the foundation, you lose the relationship. (48:52 - 51:07) Yeah. Yeah. How would you advise people to discover what their unique gifts are in this life? First and foremost, they need to accept who they are in full in order to develop and discover their own gift. A lot of people, they are drawn to please others. They are drawn to mold into the experience they are having, their job, their friends, their group. When they start to isolate a little bit, isolate, sorry, not isolate, isolate a little bit themselves, they start to discover who they really are. And they also discover what they like and what they don't like about themselves. So the first answer is isolation. Find yourself your own time during the day to discover who you really are. Some people don't really like themselves. They don't even know who themselves are because they are busy at work. They're constantly with somebody in a relationship just to fill the gap. They're constantly with friends in a crowd experience and this and that. They don't even love their own time. So first of all, love your own time. First of all. Second of all, when you discover who you are inside, you start to discover what works in you, what doesn't. And generally that again comes into your family of origin. The more you understand who you are, the more you understand what was wrong into your upbringing, what didn't work, what worked. And eventually taking your parents in full, your family of origin in full allow you to develop your individuality. A person who does not take their family of origin in full, they are shaped by their existence. So they are wobbly. Can you expand on what that means to take your family of origin in full? Accept your parents just as they are. That is a very simple phrase, but very difficult because until you have blame, judgment, hatred, resentment, any kind of those emotions, those statements that I state towards one of your parents, it means you did not take them in full. (51:07 - 52:00) Yeah. And a lot of those feelings can be harbored like unconsciously. And like some people can pretend to have decent, or they think they have decent relationships with their parents, but a lot of that's happening unconsciously. So what would be a signpost that someone has accepted their parents in full? Someone who accept their parents in full, they feel peaceful. They feel calm. They go through life in peace. They feel grounded. Somebody who has not taken their parents in full generally, they become more superficial. Come more superficial means that they fill in those gap with perhaps they workaholics, perhaps they feel it with a relationship. They're not peaceful inside themselves. When they are peaceful inside themselves, grounded means that they have a solid foundation. Also, when you don't take your parents in full, you experience your parents in other. (52:00 - 52:15) So you blame others, you judge others, you experience a lot of anger, resentment towards others. These are all manifestation that you have not taken your family of origin in full. Constant problem at work, with friends, abandonment, argument, difficult relationship. (52:15 - 53:09) Relationships. Those are five signs that something in the family of origin is tweaking. You think also around taking your family in full is that, or your parents in full, that you can spend time around them and be much less triggered than those who maybe haven't done this type of acknowledgement or at work. I feel like when my father passed away last year, there are moments where I feel very like, listen, my mom is who she is and my father was who he was. But there's still, of course, there's moments where I'm with my mom and I get highly triggered and reactive and defensive. But you think as a general rule, you can be around people that maybe in the past have caused harm to you or you don't relate to them or aren't close with them, but you can allow them to just be who they are. (53:09 - 53:22) You do you, I'm going to do me kind of thing. The best way that I took my parents in full is when I stepped away. I move away from them and then I started to reconnect over many years. (53:22 - 53:57) Distance helps you a lot, Gerasimos. In regards to the way you said it, it looks more like you have developed a coping mechanism towards your mother, but that does not mean you have taken her in full. I had a lot of coping mechanism and still have towards my mother. In your specific case, based on what you're telling me systemically, it more looks towards your father. There's a bit of guilt that is experienced towards your father still. I would have to ask you more question in regards, but that is the reason why you cannot take her in full. (53:57 - 54:57) The path of a soul, like the religious experience of Jesus, Jesus Christ left his mother, his body, and he went to his father to find his purpose. Then he reincarnate back into the body, into his mother. That is spread the purpose. That's the path of a soul. The soul moves towards the mother for a man. We start everybody in the mother. Then we move towards our father where we find our purpose. Then we go back into the body, our mother. This is generally the experience of the soul. Would you guys both be open to exploring this further as an example or as an exercise? I am. Big time. I was about to ask, actually. You read my mind, Joel. Especially with my father passing away last year and my mother getting ready to move in with us where we live in California. This year has been a very interesting year. I'm open to it. Let's do it. What is the name, Gerasimos, of your father? May I? Spiro. (54:59 - 55:20) How old was he when he passed? 93. How was that experience for you? I'm happy that he went out like a champ, as I like to call it. It wasn't extremely suffering. (55:20 - 55:31) And for me, I felt pretty complete with my father. I'm happy he lived a very long life. Of course, it's sad because someone you care about and you love is gone. (55:33 - 56:01) But overall, it didn't impact me really negatively emotionally where it's a year later and I'm like, I can't believe my dad's gone. You know what I mean? Does that make sense? Can I do a little movement with you? Would you be open to it? Yeah, I am. Would you close your eyes for me, please? And would you take a few deep breaths in and out. (56:04 - 56:31) Another deep breath in and out. Now, still with your eyes closed, you settle back in within a natural breathing rhythm, please. Imagine to walk in front of your father's grave, perhaps with your wife or if you have children. (56:32 - 56:53) And there's also your mother a little further behind that. And I want you to look at your father, perhaps at his picture. Or if it feels more comfortable to you, you go back in time when you were little and you look at his picture when you were little, perhaps 12 years old. (56:56 - 57:03) And you state, loud voice, please. Father. Father. (57:04 - 57:09) Since you left. Since you left. I lost my light. (57:10 - 57:17) I lost my light. And I'm still looking for it. And I'm still looking for it. (57:17 - 57:24) And I'm still looking for you. And I'm still looking for you. Sometimes. (57:25 - 57:30) Sometimes. I see it in my partner. I see it in my partner. (57:33 - 57:52) Sometimes I see it in my work. Sometimes I see it in my work. Or if you are a father, you state, or by being a father, you take a deep, deep, deep breath in and you let it go. (57:57 - 58:12) And if you feel good, Erasmus, you can hug your father, but from a standpoint of 12 years old. Not as now. And you state, I still feel strength. (58:13 - 58:18) Still feel strength. When I embrace you, father. When I embrace you, father. (58:19 - 58:28) I feel a better man when I embrace you, father. I feel a better man when I embrace you, father. Give me the strength. (58:29 - 58:37) Give me the strength. To do what I'm meant to do. To do what I'm meant to do. (58:37 - 58:42) I love you, father. I love you, father. You are my father. (58:43 - 58:47) You are my father. And I am your son. And I am your son. (58:47 - 59:14) And that will never change. And that will never change. How do you feel, Erasmus? Yeah, I feel nice. (59:14 - 59:26) It's like a revisiting. Even just closing my eyes and being able to think about hugging him as a 12-year-old. I feel grateful. (59:27 - 59:44) I feel sad. It's something I think I may have talked about before. I feel sad because my father loved me, but it was different as a first generation in the US. (59:45 - 59:54) We came from different worlds. And so I don't think he really knew me or fully understood me. So sometimes I long for that. (59:55 - 1:00:09) But I think overall, I've done at least whatever work up until this point to be okay with it. So it just felt nice to have that reminder and even drop into the legacy of he's my father. I'm his son. (1:00:10 - 1:00:27) And if I choose to be a father one day, what will come from there? Thank you, Erasmus, first of all, for your courage and your sharing. And I want to bring also an explanation to this for the listener. This is when we feel consciously everything is good. (1:00:28 - 1:00:31) Consciously, you are a grown man. Joel is a grown man. I'm a grown man. (1:00:31 - 1:00:46) But unconsciously, there is what we call an interrupted movement. What is an interrupted movement? An interrupted movement is sadness unreleased. There was still sadness unreleased that does not allow you to take your father in full. (1:00:46 - 1:01:09) But once you release the sadness, you can go a little closer to him, make a little bit more space into your heart, open your heart more to him and everything that encounters him, your purpose, your boundaries, your expression, your direction. Those are all archetypes of the father. So the more you get close to him and the better embrace those dynamics in your life. (1:01:09 - 1:01:13) Make sense? Yeah, it does. Thank you. My pleasure. (1:01:13 - 1:01:16) My pleasure, brother. Absolutely. Yeah. (1:01:16 - 1:01:47) I mean, in that kind of closing, those closing statements that you were asking Erasmus to make, like I was kind of doing that within myself and envisioning my own father as well and also brought up an emotional response in me. But one thing that came up is like, I feel like there's so much resistance for sons to be open and to be vulnerable and to really share with their father what they actually mean to them. You know, I feel like there's a lot of resistance in that dynamic when it comes to, hey, dad, I really love you. (1:01:47 - 1:01:51) Thank you for everything. I really appreciate you. You mean so much to me. (1:01:52 - 1:02:11) That is accurate, Joel. And if you think that, I don't know how old are you guys, I'm 37, but we come from a generation where our grandfather were absent and perhaps our great grandfather were in war too. So our father, the father figure closed their heart a lot and the mother figure had to embrace that role. (1:02:11 - 1:02:27) So mother, women, they became a little harder, a little stronger, a little more masculine and men, they were absent. So they didn't even know how to deal with their own emotion because perhaps their mother was very masculine. They had to carry on also the father figure because he was absent. (1:02:27 - 1:02:45) That is why there's a lot of men with their heart closed. But our duty as new generation of men is to open our heart so that our son, our children, they can experience this manhood in full, this fatherhood in full. Let me add something to what Joel said. (1:02:45 - 1:02:57) This is for everybody to know. A son, a daughter look at their father with their mother's eyes. So it is our mother who give us access to our father. (1:02:58 - 1:03:15) If we had a complicated experience, if they had a complicated experience themselves or in their child with their own father, they look at our father like, don't trust him in full. And we have that vision of our father. That's why we refuse them because we look at him with our mother's eyes. (1:03:17 - 1:03:24) Interesting. Yeah, that is interesting. Systemic therapies, it is so interesting. (1:03:24 - 1:03:42) Like it's just a more and more layer. Literally, you could talk about so many dynamics to the systemic lens. I could talk for 10 hours because everything that I've seen into the field is it just really opened me up to another layer of existence, to a deeper layer of existence. (1:03:42 - 1:03:54) That's what I want to have. Yeah. Yeah, I think just thinking about my own reflection, as you mentioned that, my mother definitely thinks very fondly and very highly of my father. (1:03:55 - 1:04:08) But I would say that she is aware that he's a bit emotionally distant as well. And that would be my personal view as well. He's an incredible man, provides on so many levels. (1:04:08 - 1:04:24) But at an emotional level, it's not complete. And so, yeah, you're right in that sense that I have adopted that, which I think is how she perceives him too. May I ask you a question, Joel? Yes. (1:04:24 - 1:04:39) What is the name of your mother? Tina. How is your relationship with her? I would describe it as pretty good. Recently, I mean, two years ago, I left Australia. (1:04:39 - 1:04:50) I've been living in Mexico for two years. And you mentioned before that distance kind of heals the relationship. And I would say at the time of leaving, my relationship with my parents wasn't in the best place by any means whatsoever. (1:04:50 - 1:04:59) There was a process going on. But distance has created more connection, I would say. Currently, yeah, I have a decent relationship to my mom. (1:04:59 - 1:05:05) I talk to her quite often. And I feel like we trust each other. Can I share something? Yes. (1:05:06 - 1:05:18) I feel you... Do you have a partner? Yeah, I'm married with three kids. Yeah. I feel the way you state systemically, you load your partner with a bit of responsibility that are of your mother. (1:05:20 - 1:05:53) Okay. Does your partner feel a bit loaded by it or pressured by something or something around that dynamic? Stress a bit about it? Does she stress a bit about the dynamic with my mother? In general, she feels stressed with you. There's a bit of conflict in that area or what would you say? You mean in the area in terms of relationship to my mother? The relationship between also you and your partner, not only you and your mother, but you and your partner. (1:05:54 - 1:06:09) Yeah, but are you saying... Sorry for misunderstanding. Are you saying the stress between me and my partner, are you saying is that something that might be coming from with my mother? Generally speaking, I would say yes to what you're saying. Yeah. (1:06:11 - 1:06:25) The areas of there is a little bit towards your mom and the inability that she gave you to move towards your father. And this is brought into your relationship with your partner. Okay. (1:06:25 - 1:06:41) What does that kind of dynamic look like in practical terms? The question is, how is your relationship with your partner? How you go with her? I mean, generally speaking, we're good. Like, I feel like we're on the same page. We're super connected. (1:06:42 - 1:06:48) Like, obviously, we have our moments. We're raising three toddlers in a foreign country by ourselves. Like, we have our moments. (1:06:49 - 1:07:00) And it's been a deep journey with Alyssa for sure. But I feel super proud of how far we've come and where we are now. Yeah. (1:07:01 - 1:07:27) What's the name of the second child? The second child? Her name is Naya. How is she going? Naya is the most full of life, the most of vibrance. And she's the one that challenges me the most currently. (1:07:28 - 1:07:39) Yeah. So I'm going to be serious now just for the listener to understand why I pick certain questions, because you're telling me those questions. So you're telling me systemically certain things which I translate. (1:07:39 - 1:07:52) It's like you talk to me in English and I translate it in Italian. That is why I ask you a particular question, OK? Not because I make it up or I have some magic spirit. But I'm going to be accurate in that. (1:07:52 - 1:07:56) So Naya, which is a beautiful name. Naya, Naya with an N. Naya. Beautiful name. (1:07:56 - 1:08:06) Beautiful. I like it. So Naya looked towards her grandmother, OK? There is a little bit of resentment towards the grandmother. (1:08:06 - 1:08:14) This is why she can be a bit funny. She challenges you the most, OK? She looks towards her grandmother. Towards my mother. (1:08:15 - 1:08:25) Yes. Yes, OK? That is why I came with the map, OK? There is something to be looked at it. Obviously, they are unconscious dynamic, but. (1:08:25 - 1:08:42) Yeah, like how does that happen? Because, I mean, Naya, she's four years old, right? So half of her life, she hasn't even known my mother, really. Apart from a few FaceTime calls, etc. You know? So I'm curious how you're extrapolating this. (1:08:42 - 1:08:48) Yeah, I extrapolate it because first of all, you are telling me. So they are words that come from you. I just translate it. (1:08:48 - 1:08:58) But systemically, you pass down where there is disorder. So because I can see that there is a little bit unresolved between you and your mother. This is passed down. (1:08:59 - 1:09:11) So generally, based on what you told me, the reason why I asked the second child is because I was drawn towards her. And then you told me he's the one that challenged you the most. Yes, because she's showing you something. (1:09:12 - 1:09:32) A child who is challenging a parent, he or she is showing you what is unresolved in the system. So he's showing you what is unresolved between you and your mother. So do you think the challenges that I often encounter with Naya are challenges that I as a boy encountered with my mother? 10 out of 10. (1:09:33 - 1:09:46) And what you encounter with your mother, what you encounter with your mother, there's also your father involved into that. So your inability to go towards him. Perhaps your mother, unconsciously, your father is not enough. (1:09:47 - 1:09:57) Your father is not present. So there is this unconscious dynamic that your mother has passed to you. And obviously, this disorder passed down into Naya. (1:09:57 - 1:10:12) And Naya, she's showing you something. My curiosity would be which emotion is rising up in you, Naya? Like, she makes you angry. She makes you, what's going on? Yeah, I mean, it's good. (1:10:13 - 1:10:26) Like, honestly, like, I've been working very hard to connect with Naya. On a deeper level, and we're getting much closer. But in the recent past, the emotion that she would bring up in me most would be anger. (1:10:26 - 1:10:36) Definitely. That is, again, the anger that is unresolved. The tweaked experience, the knot, is with your mother and your father. (1:10:36 - 1:10:44) Yeah, because... You, your mother and your father. In my own observation, like, I feel like Naya resembles me the most. In terms of when I was her age. (1:10:44 - 1:10:52) Like, I've kind of come to that conclusion already. Yeah, accurate. Like, she's the one that has taken the most. (1:10:52 - 1:11:05) So she's showing you something. But it's beautiful because Naya, again, as we go back to what we said before, Joel, every parent is perfect for their children. And every child is perfect for their parents. (1:11:05 - 1:11:18) See, Naya is showing you something. And you have the opportunity through Naya, through Naya eyes, to see what's going on here. And I tell you what, which I... We have worked thousands of times with that. (1:11:18 - 1:11:25) When you resolve the root of it, you see that somehow even Naya changes. Yeah. It is crazy. (1:11:26 - 1:11:46) I've seen these experiences hundreds of times. What made you say the second child? What is it that I said or whatever you heard that brought the second child to you? It's the way you related to Alyssa, your partner. The way you related told me that was the second one. (1:11:47 - 1:11:58) If you would have related more with anger towards Alyssa, I would have said the first. If you would have related towards guilt, I would have said the third one. But because you relate harmoniously, I said it's the second one. (1:11:58 - 1:12:05) That is a systemic understanding, obviously. I don't pretend to, but it's a systemic understanding. I do this every day, guys. (1:12:05 - 1:12:12) So obviously, after many years... It's like making a coffee, right? It's intuitive. It's like making a coffee. I make a coffee every day. (1:12:12 - 1:12:33) I know how to make a coffee now. Just to speak it very frankly and put it in layman's terms, because maybe I haven't grasped it fully, what would you say is the issue between me and my mother as it currently stands? There's a bit of anger and guilt to be released there. There's something to be released and you to move towards your father. (1:12:33 - 1:12:52) Once you move towards your father, Joel, different experience. What does that look like? It looks like releasing emotion that they are child emotions. Child emotions can be you stamping your feet when you were little because your mother didn't give you something. (1:12:53 - 1:13:17) That emotion is still trapped in it within you and does not allow you, Joel, to fully take your father, to fully become a man. So when we take our father in full, we take our manhood in full. One of the most beautiful empirical experience you have as a man, you really feel to carry your woman out with value, with pride. (1:13:17 - 1:13:29) You become more man and she embrace more womanhood. She become more woman. You literally see couple when they fully have taken their parents and they now taking each others, he becomes more man. (1:13:29 - 1:13:36) She becomes more woman. He becomes more responsible. She can let go and bring her wisdom into the relationship. (1:13:36 - 1:13:42) Bring her wisdom towards him. Allow him to open his heart. Yeah. (1:13:43 - 1:14:03) Make sense? Yeah. So you think I need to like contemplate and reflect and kind of accept my father more deeply? Before there needs to be this moment towards your mother before you can take your father. Before is your mother the pinnacle point because once you leave her, you move towards your father. (1:14:03 - 1:14:12) Okay. If you open, if you open, I'm happy to go through it. Otherwise, we go through some more questions because we have done already one with Yerasimus. (1:14:12 - 1:14:25) Maybe we won't. Yeah, no, this is great. It's a very, you know, cool experience and also different for our audience to just kind of get some insights and to be introduced to this in a way that is really fascinating as well. (1:14:25 - 1:14:33) I have one question related to my situation and any thoughts that you have like. Your session was over, bro. Your session is finished. (1:14:33 - 1:14:38) But my session is over. You're more fucked up than I am. So I need a little. (1:14:42 - 1:14:58) So there's a huge transition happening. I had gone home two weeks ago to clean out my childhood home of 45 years to put it on the market to sell, which is happening right now. And then guys in May, I'm going back to pick up my mother probably and bring her here to live with us. (1:14:58 - 1:15:26) So is there something to be mindful of as I'm bringing my mother into my territory, my home that relates to, I don't know, certain things or my relationship to my wife? I'm just curious, like when you see this happen, like someone who's been distant and now is coming into your zone, like anything to be mindful of from a systemic family constellation standpoint? Yes, there is Yerasimus. And I feel this can be very useful for the audience. How is your wife feeling about it? Oh, I mean, she gets along with my wife. (1:15:26 - 1:15:41) And at the same time, like it's, you know, it can be a lot too. Fortunately, we have an extra like a separate unit, a separate like a guest house that my mom will be living in. So she won't be in our actual space, which would be a lot more challenging. (1:15:42 - 1:15:54) But I think she has a mix of excitement because there's more love. More love is coming into our world as well, which that's our motto these days. And it's going to change things, you know? So there's concern. (1:15:54 - 1:16:08) If she has a space on her own by the side, better. But it's always important, Yerasimus, that you ask your wife to really open up how she feels about it. Because in my experience, they build up a bit of resentment. (1:16:09 - 1:16:29) So this is what happens to my mother, what happened to hundreds of women that I work on over the years, generally three to five years, they express this resentment. I understand your situation, particularly because your father's passed. My question to you is, do you have sisters? No, I have a brother. (1:16:29 - 1:16:37) Well, I have a sister, but she's, you know, a half sister. She lives in a completely different area. Okay. (1:16:37 - 1:16:47) Is your mother independent? I mean, she was, but she's dealing, she's 81 now. So she's dealing with some health issues and movement issues. So generally speaking, she is. (1:16:48 - 1:17:00) Do you guys have a caretaker for her? No, she's not at that level just yet. But, you know, when we get to that point, we'll handle it. Okay. (1:17:00 - 1:17:14) My advice to you is, from a systemic level, if you can have a third person look after her when she needs, that's better. That does not involve you. Or the younger, generally, of the sibling looks after the parents a little bit more when they grow old. (1:17:16 - 1:17:20) You are the younger one. Okay, that works accurately. That's fine, Yerasimus. (1:17:21 - 1:17:36) My advice to you is to ask your wife to really tell you how she feels to have your mother by the side. And if something is rising up over time, to make sure that you ask to her and she's open to express it in full. Okay. (1:17:36 - 1:17:41) So to make sure that after some years, she doesn't develop resentment. Makes sense? Great. Yeah, it does. (1:17:42 - 1:18:02) I'm happy that you said that because we're already on that kind of level and we're talking about it. And I do the best I can to have her open up and also to let her know that she can, she can go create space for herself and do what she has to do to take care of herself when, you know, when she needs. I also give you another advice because you bring in your mother close to you. (1:18:02 - 1:18:11) My advice to you is to give to the relationship a little bit more. Okay. So if she give nine and you give 11, it works better. (1:18:12 - 1:18:20) If it would be nine and nine, generally, you would be 10 and nine. That works well. But because you bring your mother, you go to 11, 12 and it's even better. (1:18:20 - 1:18:27) Okay. Generally, a man, if he's able to provide a little bit more because he brings the mother in, big up to you. Great. (1:18:28 - 1:18:30) Thank you. My pleasure. My pleasure, brother. (1:18:30 - 1:18:34) Everyone listening. Okay. Just information. (1:18:34 - 1:18:37) It's not just about me. It's about y'all. Oh, it's about everybody. (1:18:37 - 1:18:42) There's information about everybody. Should we go back to Joe? Yeah, sure. We can. (1:18:42 - 1:18:55) But just so everyone knows, we only invited Tiziana on for free therapy. It's got nothing to do with the podcast at all. We wanted our audience to get a glimpse into our lives. (1:18:55 - 1:18:59) Okay. No, let me tell you something. Let me tell you something about this. (1:19:00 - 1:19:08) When we do those movements, I guarantee you that you will have people telling you, oh, it moved me too. Because those movements are information in the field. There's nothing about Tiziana, Jolo, Yerasimos. (1:19:08 - 1:19:13) We bring healing. That's the power of group therapy. Cool. (1:19:13 - 1:19:16) All right, man. Let's go there. About you. (1:19:17 - 1:19:24) Yeah. What happened with your mother when you were little, Joel? Just out of curiosity. When you were 12, perhaps something like that. (1:19:24 - 1:19:27) What's going on with her? Okay. Yeah, let's not go there. We'll go. (1:19:28 - 1:19:30) Maybe we'll go there offline. Yeah, yeah. Okay. (1:19:30 - 1:19:33) We go. No, if you don't feel it, we go. We do it. (1:19:33 - 1:19:35) I just, you know. No, totally. Real quickly. (1:19:36 - 1:19:46) What's it? What's with 12? What's with age 12? You said that to me when I was hugging my dad and you said it with Joel. It's just the way you say things, guys. But I also know that important things, which is systemic. (1:19:46 - 1:20:12) Between nine to 13 years old, a son moves from his mother to his father, even a daughter. So between those ages, they're very important for a child, just for all the audience, that the mother fully gives access to the father. And if something is unresolved with the mother between zero to nine, it comes up over those years because she doesn't fully allow the child to go to their father. (1:20:12 - 1:20:16) That is why I go with this age. Got you. Yeah. (1:20:16 - 1:20:18) Very interesting. Yeah. Very, very, very interesting. (1:20:20 - 1:20:27) Wow. Do you have children? I don't. I don't. (1:20:27 - 1:20:37) I had a partner when I was a teen. And I just when I got out of jail and I was in house arrest, she got pregnant and we had an abortion. So I have a child with soul level. (1:20:37 - 1:20:51) But that's something I'm curious about. So like we had a miscarriage as well. So like, are children that don't make it, are they kind of included in the systemic therapy? They are, Joel. (1:20:51 - 1:21:04) They are. So miscarriage, generally, they are a situation in which the family has no ground to have a child. Ground means there's no yet order or basement to have a child. (1:21:04 - 1:21:19) A child on a biological level does not come if there is no order or ground for it. Sometimes this situation could be that the wife, for example, is in a masculine role. The man is in the feminine role or something happened on that line. (1:21:19 - 1:21:36) So the child does not come to life biologically because this intelligence blocks the path. Or it could resonate something in the system that was an unborn, a lost child and something a miscarriage which is repeated. The difference is to abortion. (1:21:36 - 1:21:47) Abortion are a little bit more, Joel, they give a little bit more consequences to the family, particularly to the siblings. You had an abortion. You had a miscarriage. (1:21:47 - 1:21:49) No, no. Miscarriage. Miscarriage. (1:21:49 - 1:22:02) Okay. Well, in your case, could look a little bit towards the third one. When did you have the miscarriage? Was between them or at the start? What do you mean between? It was right before the third. (1:22:02 - 1:22:15) Between siblings? Let me give you some context on this one. Yeah. So the miscarriage happened just before my wife got pregnant again. (1:22:16 - 1:22:41) But the miscarriage happened at a time of our life where we both acknowledge that we weren't ready for a third to come. But during that miscarriage experience, which was incredibly deep process for us, my wife actually carried our baby after it had died in utero for three months until it was ready to be born naturally. There was a proper grieving process and a natural process around that. (1:22:42 - 1:23:07) But what came up to be healed in the relationship with me and Alyssa in that process of experiencing the miscarriage is something that I don't think we ever would have gotten to without it. Alyssa feels very strongly that our third child is the same child. Alyssa had experiences where she was being visited by an energy or a spirit baby. (1:23:08 - 1:23:24) And it was saying like, hey, do you guys want me? I want to come back. I'm here, etc, etc. And I genuinely feel like our third child came in the first time and had that miscarriage experience to bring us closer together. (1:23:25 - 1:23:35) There was a certain environment that she wanted to be born into. There was a certain relationship that she wanted to be born into. And the state that we were in during that first experience wasn't ideal. (1:23:36 - 1:23:43) So she came in and then did what she had to do. Then she was like, okay, this feels better now. And then came straight back, man. (1:23:44 - 1:23:49) It was not even one cycle. And Alyssa was pregnant again. And we weren't really trying. (1:23:51 - 1:24:04) This is beautiful. And that's why I told you about the third child. Because again, through your words, you have a knowledge that would you like to do a very mild movement out of that job, if I may? What's the name of the third child? Her name is Tierra. (1:24:05 - 1:24:11) Tierra, Tierra. Oh, what a beautiful names you have for your children. What's the name of the first? Her name is Valley. (1:24:12 - 1:24:15) Okay, Tierra and Valley. Okay. Valley, Naya, Tierra, yeah. (1:24:15 - 1:24:20) Valley, Naya, Tierra, Tierra. Good, good. Your bond is the second one, I tell you. (1:24:23 - 1:24:51) Anyway, would you close your eyes for me, please? And take a few deep breaths in and out. Another deep breath in and out, Joe. Still with your eyes closed, you settle back in within a natural breathing rhythm, please. (1:24:54 - 1:25:09) Imagine to go back in time when you were seven years old. And behind you, there is your mother. And on the side, on the right side, there is also Alyssa. (1:25:11 - 1:25:21) But you are still little there. And behind Alyssa, in between your mother and her, there is also your father. What's his name? Ead. (1:25:23 - 1:25:47) And now you also see your children sitting down, just the two of the first two. And then on the other side in front, there is also the third one, Tierra. And you see this little, like imagine a grave in between your family, you and Tierra. (1:25:47 - 1:26:05) And that represents the child who was miscarried. You can feel there's a bit of sadness into this. And Alyssa may express this sadness through grief or tears. (1:26:06 - 1:26:22) And I want you to look towards this child, perhaps holding Alyssa's hand, and you state loud voice, you belong here. You belong here. You are part of this. (1:26:23 - 1:26:31) You are part of this. Thank you for what you have given to us. Thank you for what you have given to us. (1:26:31 - 1:26:38) Thank you for what you have done for us. Thank you for what you've done to us, done for us. Yeah. (1:26:39 - 1:26:44) And you will always have. And you will always have. A place. (1:26:45 - 1:26:49) A place. In our heart. In our hearts. (1:26:52 - 1:27:03) You take a deep, deep, deep breath in. And you let go. And you see all the family embracing this child. (1:27:04 - 1:27:09) Your father, your mother. See the profound experience she's given you. She's uniting you all. (1:27:11 - 1:27:17) And you say to her, thank you. Thank you. For uniting us all. (1:27:18 - 1:27:20) For uniting us all. Yeah. Yeah. (1:27:22 - 1:27:27) I love you. I love you. We love you. (1:27:27 - 1:27:33) We love you. And that will never change. That will never change. (1:27:33 - 1:27:44) Yeah. Yeah. And you state one more little thing. (1:27:44 - 1:27:52) You state, I am your father. I am your father. And I don't know if you feel to give him or her a name. (1:27:52 - 1:27:57) Or you just say, you are my child. You are my child. Yeah. (1:27:58 - 1:28:07) And that will never change. That will never change. And now you ask also permission. (1:28:07 - 1:28:27) Can I go to Tiara? You ask permission. You ask a loud voice, please. Oh, can I go to Tiara? Can Tiara come to us in full? Can Tiara come to us in full? And you ask that permission. (1:28:27 - 1:28:45) And you stay a little bit there. And you open your eyes, Joel, for me one second. And you do this little bow. (1:28:46 - 1:28:50) This little bow. Imagine to do this little bow too. Yeah. (1:28:51 - 1:29:03) The interesting thing, Tiziano, and I don't know what your thoughts are on this. But we feel like very strongly that it was Tiara. That it was the same spirit. (1:29:03 - 1:29:23) Like, in terms of like, my wife had communication with this. And it was like an undeniable kind of feeling. It's like, how does that kind of, do you think that's possible? Like, how do you think, does that kind of shift this at all? Because we feel fully resolved about it in this process, you know? I have no doubt. (1:29:23 - 1:29:30) But if you do feel, there was a lot of magnetism. Emotions were present. And I could feel there was magnetic. (1:29:30 - 1:29:43) Means that Tiara, some part of her, are sabotaging because of this child. Unconsciously, she might sabotage a little bit. I'm going to ask you a question, if you want to answer or not. (1:29:43 - 1:29:58) Sure. Does, did Tiara ever had any tummy issue? Vomiting or problem on digesting food? She's four, she's four months old at the moment. So she's still, she's still purely breastfed. (1:30:00 - 1:30:18) I mean, she's had a normal amount of vomit. Like, nothing extreme by any means whatsoever. But generally speaking, in like, my observation together, like, she's the most content, the most smiliest, the most happiest baby, you know? For sure. (1:30:19 - 1:30:31) But there's been like a small level of vomit. There has been. Alisa, Alisa would be able to answer you more in regards to if she was worried for a little bit more or something. (1:30:31 - 1:30:44) But she obviously brought some acknowledgement into this. And again, you might have felt a little bit of heavy hearting to do the process. Because still there is a result with your mom, even there. (1:30:44 - 1:30:55) Something came up that looks towards your mom. But, but see how this unfolds. And yeah, I'm, I'm confident that Alisa will also benefit from it. (1:30:55 - 1:30:58) Totally. Yeah. Thank you so much, man. (1:30:58 - 1:31:00) Thank you. Pleasure, brother. Pleasure. (1:31:00 - 1:31:07) Absolutely a pleasure. Fiona, do you want to, do you want to be a father? Absolutely. I look forward to it. (1:31:07 - 1:31:22) I, with my previous, with my last plan that didn't work, but we had a lot of distorts ideas, speaking about children a lot. But yeah, I look forward to it. I feel, I really want to serve my family. (1:31:22 - 1:31:26) I really am excited about that. Not, I'm really looking forward to it. Yes. (1:31:27 - 1:31:55) Do you think there's a, I think for many of us that are in this world where we're helpers and coaches and, you know, supporting people, like it's easy for people to project onto us that like, you know, we have it all figured out, you know? And so I'm sure you receive some of that, you know, being a teacher, leading workshops, but like, are there things right now where you go, man, this is the pattern I'm in right now. There's something that I'm really trying to shift and change, take the next step of evolution as a man and who I want to be. And if you're open to sharing that, feel free. (1:31:55 - 1:32:08) Yes, big time. At the moment, the challenge I'm facing is my growth into my business has exponentially gone quite ballistic, which is good. I just, I'm hiring new assistants, new people. (1:32:08 - 1:32:24) And that is challenging for me at the moment, because my dad couldn't overdevelop his business, his purpose out of that. He was not well-organized. So at the moment I'm embodying more the archetype of the father, which he didn't have because his father passed very early in ages. (1:32:24 - 1:32:41) So I am in current challenging to find the right people, to structure the team, because we are seven at the moment that we work into this and I'm trying to combine it all together. That's my biggest challenge, brother, at the moment. Thank you for sharing that. (1:32:42 - 1:32:57) Do you hold workshops all around the world or do you focus primarily like in Australia? No, not around the world. I do Australia, actually less in Australia this year and more around the world. I have a big tour in Europe and 2026, if not 2027, will be US. (1:32:58 - 1:33:12) And because I have already dates for the next, let's say 365 days, one year. But after that, we are planning a new tour, which might be US. Do you have any thoughts of where you want to be in the US or you haven't gotten to that point yet? Not yet. (1:33:12 - 1:33:23) I usually, we usually embrace people, organizers that want to work with us. So they send to us a request on our email and the team look after that. And then we set the tone and we move forward. (1:33:24 - 1:33:32) But no, no, yeah, I've never been to US. So we would be excited also to, you know, travel around and experience. And yeah, it's, I've never been. (1:33:33 - 1:33:40) Yeah, well, if you make it to the Los Angeles area, just let me know, brother. Oh, 100% guys. I, you know, when I come, I definitely want to do a good tour. (1:33:40 - 1:33:44) When I go to Europe, I do five or six places. So the same would be for US. Amazing. (1:33:46 - 1:34:11) Is there anything that you feel like you haven't shared about this or about yourself that you do want to kind of get out at this point of the conversation? About myself, not really, because I've spoken a lot about me and stuff. In regards to relationship, guys, if you want, I can add something, which is, I feel it's very important to these days to add because lately I got a lot into that. Tell us. (1:34:13 - 1:34:28) The key point that I've uncovered over the last years is the way that we relate to the relationship, men and women, which they're different. Men are led by sexuality. So we open up by attraction. (1:34:29 - 1:34:41) So I want to make love with you. This is a profound statement that already tells you the direction of a man. And then the woman, when we express our direction, she's our, the path to our heart. (1:34:41 - 1:35:02) So she's the one taking care of the relationship. This is why I always see, oh, when men are not straight and directive into the relationship, I can already see that they are not fully embody their masculinity. So when they don't state what they really want at the start, they have not embodied their masculinity in full. (1:35:02 - 1:35:14) And the women, when we don't set our direction to start with, they cannot surrender in their femininity. That is a very important point. So when a man state, I really want to make love with you, that is an initiation. (1:35:15 - 1:35:26) And some women take it that, oh, they just want to bring me to bed, but not really. As a masculine key is to set our direction. We initiate with the sexual sparkle, bam. (1:35:26 - 1:35:44) That's how we start. Then the woman, it's the duty of the woman to lead us to our heart and to take care of the relationship. This is the major, the biggest acknowledgement I've got over the years where we see that a man is, which is directive, step up with the sexuality. (1:35:44 - 1:35:50) I want to make love with you. And the woman is the path to our heart. So she take care of the relationship. (1:35:51 - 1:36:06) It sounds very Italian to me, bro. Cause I've had a lot of good Italy and I've been to Italy and I have friends of mine, female friends that I've been like, everywhere I go in Italy, these men are just trying to make love to me or they're trying to come up to me. I mean, I don't know. (1:36:07 - 1:36:18) This is where women, they always tell me in worship, oh, but a man wants to have, because men are led by sexuality. That's how we are led. That's how we are led. (1:36:18 - 1:36:31) And it's a natural things to be led by sexuality. It's up to the woman to open up our heart. So we are set in the direction and then they bring us to our heart to open up and they take care of the relationship. (1:36:32 - 1:36:43) I know it sounds funny, but because so many women, they're like, oh, they just want to bring me to bed. But that's how men with direction set up. Obviously we don't say, I want to have sex. (1:36:43 - 1:37:03) That's a man who doesn't open up their heart. Yeah, I mean, I was making a joke also because I've spent some time in Italy and I remember even when I was younger and I'm sitting at the Spanish steps and like, I think it's in Rome, right? The Spanish steps and like, that's women are just that I was with, like the women, the men are just coming by whistling and they're so forward. They're so forward there. (1:37:04 - 1:37:10) So, you know. But anyway, just want to put it out because it's a concept that lately comes up quite a lot. Yeah. (1:37:10 - 1:37:22) Thanks, man. Dude, it's been an absolute pleasure to share this time with you the past 90 minutes. And yeah, very, very curious about this system and about this approach for sure. (1:37:23 - 1:37:43) How can people, I guess, connect with you and where would you like to direct our audience's attention? Just to close this one off. So my website is www.tizianosguerso.com. My audience is generally coming from social media, which is on Instagram at tiziano underscore sguerso. And then I have a page on Facebook, but majorly on Instagram and my website also. (1:37:43 - 1:37:53) A lot of podcasts, YouTube interview. They know how to reach. My wife just went through a family constellations training here in the US, you know. (1:37:53 - 1:37:56) So she's getting more into it. So that's very cool. Yeah, man. (1:37:56 - 1:38:08) We'll have all these things down in the show notes and to our audience, you know, follow Tiziano on Instagram. And yeah, I look forward to you coming to the US at some point. It's been a pleasure, guys, to share this space with you. (1:38:08 - 1:38:14) Absolutely. This episode will be out on Sunday, right? Thank you. Thank you. (1:38:14 - 1:38:16) All right, guys. Thanks for listening. Take care. (1:38:18 - 1:38:26) And that wraps up today's journey. But hey, the truth train doesn't stop here. Every Friday, we drop little nuggets of wisdom straight to your inbox. (1:38:26 - 1:38:42) We're talking mind expanding ideas, heart opening perspectives, and the kind of content that hopefully makes you go, whoa, I never thought of it that way. 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