Jennie Morton Osteopathy and Understanding the Cosmos Through the Body

[Speaker 2] (0:00 - 2:59) You are now listening to the Here for the Truth podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Erasmus Stelionesis. All right, everybody, welcome to episode 41 of Here for the Truth. As always, I'm Joel Rafiti and this podcast is co-hosted by a friend here in LA. Erasmus Stelionesis. Asimoso Stelionesis. As always, for any divination needs, please head to my website, joelrafiti.com. If you're after specific human design readings or if you're in the LA area looking for some body work, please reach out to Erasmus. Today, we have a very special woman indeed. Her name is Jenny Morton. And let me tell you a bit about Jenny. After a long career as a ballet dancer, musical theatre performer, actor and singer, Jenny recognised the need for specialist care for the arts population and became an osteopath specialising in the field of performing arts medicine. She spent 10 years as a clinician at the British Association for Performing Arts Medicine and co-created a master's degree in performing arts medicine at University College London, training graduate medical and healthcare practitioners in the specifics of working with artists. As a keen observer of human behaviour, she became fascinated with the interplay between emotions and health and furthered her training with a master's in psychology. Now based in Los Angeles, her practice has a strong focus on psychophysiology and behavioural health, exploring the links between habitual thought patterns and the expression of physical symptoms. She is also passionate about empowering individuals to a deeper understanding of the self in order to create sustainable, dynamic and regenerative health. Jenny holds certifications as a clinical anxiety treatment professional, a mental health integrative medicine provider and is also a certified heart math practitioner. She's written many articles that have been published in medical journals and arts publications and is the author of three books, including The Authentic Performer, Wearing a Mask and the Effect on Health. Jenny is also a performance coach, helping artists with technique optimisation and connecting with authenticity. As a vocal health specialist, she helps individuals connect their authentic voice for optimal self expression. A passion for unified physics, sacred geometry and the physics of consciousness underlie all of Jenny's work. She believes we all have a collective responsibility for what we put into the field. So she helps individuals tend to their own soil to ensure whatever they contribute to the world will be of the highest nutritional content for all. Wow. Jenny, welcome to Here for the Truth. [Speaker 1] (3:00 - 3:02) Thank you. Very excited to be here. [Speaker 3] (3:03 - 3:58) I'm so happy that you're here. You know, so blessed. We met, what was it, a month, month and a half ago through a mutual friend and we live in the same area. And I've been blessed to work with you. It was just one time, but you had a major impact on me and some headaches that I was dealing with. And just happy to have you here and your wealth of knowledge. And I'm so excited. Like, it feels like Halloween today, even though I don't really celebrate it, where it's like, I don't know what treats we're going to get, you know, with dialogue. Or tricks. Yeah, or tricks. With the bio and everything. You know, I'm just really, really excited. Do you have an, you know what, I want to start off, I want to start off here. I want to start off as a performer, as a musician, you know, as that being, you know, the early part of your life. What was it that got you then to go down all these different rabbit holes? Like, tell us a little bit about your journey and major rites of passage. Let's start there. [Speaker 1] (3:58 - 9:54) Okay. Yeah, I've been on a lot of rabbit holes or black holes if you're talking about. And they're not the dead end as we've, as we've been taught so that's another story. But yeah, I, you know, I grew up in the arts I come from an arts family my mom was a Royal Ballet trained dancer and had her own dance studio and I so I was, you know, apparently I did my first ballet class when I was 14 months old because as soon as I was on my feet, I was joining. And my dad was a TV director at the BBC and so most weekends, we were all up at the BBC as a family and I was in TV studios for rehearsals of, you know, big primetime shows that my dad was working on. And I just had a kind of deep curiosity about behavior, right from an early age I think, you know, I came into this world, kind of going, huh. So, what's this all about, you know, just, I never quite felt like I fitted here and I always have this sort of detached curiosity about what this is what's going on. And obviously being around artists all the time and, and, you know, I was in TV studios with what was a very well known personalities of the day, and I knew what the public perception was of those people and people say, oh wow you know so and so I love that. And I was thinking, you know, not quite the side of the person that I see on the other side of the camera and so I got this idea that people are not always what they promote themselves to be, and that, you know, someone that was, you know, such a funny amazing character on TV could actually be quite a horrible person and, you know, yelling everyone in the studio and. And then there were other people who were, you know, obviously a quivering wreck before the show went on and, but yet were, you know, the epitome of confidence on screen. And I realized that all of them are terrified whether they're bullying everyone whether they're sort of arrogant and being narcissistic or whether they're terrified. They were all terrified. And so I just used to observe all this going on. And then I worked myself in the performing arts from a very early age I did my first film acting job at five, and then from the age of seven I was on a full time theatre art school. And from the age of eight I was touring. I got a child role in a ballet with one of England's largest ballet companies and I spent five years doing London seasons and being on national and international tours. So I was with this sort of adult professional artists from from a young age and again, seeing all the behavioral interplay. So, so I'd already become a student of human behavior right from then. And I think the arts is kind of like a magnification if you like of what a lot of people do in their regular life they go to work and they play the role of a lawyer or an accountant, or whatever, but actually, it's not really who I am. So, so that was kind of the behavioral aspect and then as a, as a performer as a dancer, particularly you get a lot of injuries bodies, you know, the body is your, your instrument and so you are very dialed into the nuances of what's working what's not working. And so I had this sort of inherent inherent sense of that. But actually when I was 17 I was at dance college and you know a year out from heading off into the profession. And I had horrible shin splints which you know if anyone's had them pretty painful. And I literally couldn't dance I could barely walk, and so I was sitting out of all my classes and not knowing what to do and thinking this could be the end of my career right now. Before it's even started. And one of those serendipitous moments, and notice a poster went up on the notice board at college and it said a final year osteopathy student, who is a former dancer is doing a thesis in shin splints in dancers. I was like, cosmic wink, one of those cosmic totally. So I was like, yeah, sign me up and so I would go three times a week to the British School of osteopathy in London and work with this final year student, and she would have all the sort of junior students in observing her sessions as well because when you're a final year student, you know you get you get the sort of the students below you coming and observing, and literally in the first session, she picked apart all the stuff that I was doing in my dance technique that had led me to get this problem. I thought I've been in full time dance training for 10 years by that point, and not one teacher has ever picked this up and so I was like, I like this osteopathy thing so it was already sort of lodged in the back of my brain, and because she was teaching these other students during my sessions I was, I was absorbing I'm a big sponge you know I just love learning new information. So I was absorbing all this anatomical information like, oh god I get that and I see what's happening here. And I was teaching I started teaching dance from the age of 13 as well so I was then bringing that into my teaching. And then every show I ever did as a professional, either in the ballet company or then when I moved into musical theater West End shows. I always used to become the unofficial company masseur, you know I had a kind of a knack for, for, you know, working out the issues in people's muscles and people will be like, Oh, would you do my neck and shoulders before the show and I'll give you a bottle of wine you know it's kind of like we trade, because we're such healthy beings in the arts. [Speaker 3] (9:54 - 9:55) Yeah, of course. [Speaker 1] (9:56 - 12:35) So I had this kind of, you know, knack for it and then people would say to me you should train in this you should do this you shouldn't you know and I was kind of like, I do kind of I am kind of interested. So I actually trained initially as what we call in England a sports massage therapist so it's not your sort of holistic beauty type massage it's, it's specifically targeted to targeted towards specific injuries. So it's a slightly deeper training in anatomy, and the understanding of injury causation. And I use my knowledge of dance technique of instrumental musicians technique of vocal technique to not only treat symptoms, but also look at what people were doing technically to lead to the problem because there's so much in healthcare care of treating the what and not addressing the why. Right. So you have to address the why otherwise the person's just going to go away and repeat the behavior and end up with the same problem again in six months time so you're not dealing with the problem it's just a bandaid. So I'd started doing that and I was still performing at that time so I was treating people in the day and then do my show at night. And then, you know, with anything in healthcare. You know, if you are a practitioner of any integrity, I would suggest, the more you know, the more we say the more you know the more you realize you don't know but also the more you know in healthcare, the more terrified you are of what you don't know, you know I'm like well I know what muscles are and tissues and, you know, connective tissue and ligaments and tendons. But what are they made up of well what's the cellular structure and then what's, what's the extra cellular structure and what's the atomical structure and what if I don't know what's under my hands I have no right to put my hands there right so that's why I'm now into quantum level. Looking at that because, which is where mass actually starts to disappear and you start to go what even is the body but that's maybe topic for later in the conversation. But, so, so that drove me to go I need to know more I don't feel I know enough and so there was that little, you know, as you say the cosmic wink from before about becoming an osteopath and what drew me towards osteopathy and so many dancers particularly would seek out osteopaths over physiotherapists as we call them in England or PTs, because they took a very global approach to treatment they did look at the why they look at you within your psychological as well as physical framework and the environment that you exist in the physical and emotional environment in which you exist. So it's it's a more global approach. [Speaker 3] (12:36 - 12:53) And so that very much resonated with me but it's a five year degree so I had to be at a place in my life where I could fit that in a Jenny real quick, real quick, like a difference between osteopathy and like Europe versus the US because like what's, what's a do and what's I'm just curious if you can kind of just talk about that just briefly. [Speaker 1] (12:53 - 17:19) Yeah, there's a big difference. So, also, strangely osteopathy actually was born here in the US, but it's kind of been lost here so in the rest of the world which would be Australia as well. We are sort of an independent profession, much like PTs or chiropractors we're not under the medical umbrella. We have our own governing bodies we have, you know, relatively medical training, but as osteopaths our training is all hands on you know you learn your anatomy on the body we learn manual treatment so it's manual medicine. Yes, we're looking at disease states immune system issues. But we are philosophy is that if every organ and system in the body has a good blood flow in good drainage out and a good nerve supply, then it's a self healing self diagnosing self maintaining system. So our job is to not fix anything I don't like this idea that I come to you you fix my back, you know, that's not what's taking place. I'm helping to create the conditions that facilitate blood flow in drainage out and a good nerve supply to let the body do its own thing. It's not for me to impose my will upon a body part or a body tissue. It is to to facilitate the, you know, dynamic health state of those tissues so that they'll self organize them. And, and I'm kind of more more of a midwife or doula as we were talking about earlier in the process. So, in, in this in the US you know when there was a big drive, you know, in the sort of middle of the 20th century towards, you know, the medical model, and that anything that's a natural approach because we don't prescribe medication we don't, you know, do invasive procedures or anything we we are very much just hands on practitioners osteopathy kind of in the US felt I think that it needed to have more validation it didn't want to be put in the woo woo bucket with with the homeopathies and the, you know, sort of been very, you know, held in very good esteem but then had been, you know, as the medical model gained momentum and funding from certain entities. It was, let's demonize all these other alternative therapies and put them in the woo woo bucket so that we, you know, try and drive everyone towards well this is the only thing that works that the medical model. And so osteopaths were sort of caught in this, which, which bucket do we go into. And so they were brought under the medical umbrella so in the US, a DO, Doctor of Osteopathy, their training is pretty much regular medical school they do their surgical rotations or their inpatient hospital kind of stuff with a sort of osteopathic philosophy in there. And I think you know I've talked to many osteopaths and there are different schools, some are MD do regular MD and then there's sort of an additional training that they do to bring in the osteopathic philosophies, the DOs, it's actually an osteopathic school but again it very much adheres to the medical model, and they work in the traditional medical infrastructure so a lot of them work as family physicians so they're prescribing medications and giving injections and really not doing the hands on stuff and I've had conversations with osteopaths here and I'm like, why don't you do the hands on stuff which is what we're really known for them in the rest of the world. And they're like we can't bill for it under insurance. So we're back to the idea that it's the sort of the bean counters and administrators that are dictating what is appropriate medical, you know, practice and and what can be practiced and what can't be practiced. So those US osteopaths that do do hands on work have to do it outside the insurance system so it's a fee for service kind of thing. So that's really the distinction so most people will view an osteopath as really not much different from their regular from a regular doctor so they don't really understand it as an independent profession, as it is elsewhere in the, in the world. [Speaker 3] (17:20 - 17:21) Yeah, thanks for the summary. [Speaker 2] (17:21 - 18:09) Yeah, I've got to bring a couple of things up, just listening to all of that. Like from a divination perspective is just so classic, everything that you're sharing and your journey so far so like in esoteric numerology, your ruling card is the four of swords from the minor arcana of the Tarot and the four of swords is all about discovery learning education institutions. And then I look at look at it from an astrology perspective, and you have Virgo in house six. So how six is all about work, it's what we like at work, and Virgo is what brings order, it's what brings details what brings precision it's analytical. So just the way you're absorbing all this information that constantly. Yeah, just want to bring that up just this absolute classic just listening to you the way, the way the way you're expressing everything. And in my head, I'm like, wow. [Speaker 3] (18:10 - 18:34) Well, even, even from a human design standpoint, you know, you're a one three profile so the one is known as the investigator, and then the three is known as the trial and error like learning through trial and error and just experimenting and bumping into things and learning what works what doesn't work, you know, and so it's just like it's this process of building that deep foundation of knowledge through also just figuring out what works and what doesn't work, and then moving forward in that way so it's just fascinating. [Speaker 2] (18:34 - 18:55) Oh yeah, and also her incarnation cross is the writing will cross of laws. Right, so this is literally about figuring out what doesn't work for the tribe what doesn't work for the community then altering the laws so the right conditions are there for things to flourish. So it's, there's never a coincidence where people find themselves especially those on an authentic path. [Speaker 1] (18:56 - 22:51) That's it, it's like you're validating me and I'm validating what I'm like a living example of what what you guys have described in there. Yeah, and it kind of was born for me you know this quite you know something as my card seem to say you know I analyze everything I have to know why I was the kid that drove my parents mad by going why, why, why. But this, you know, as I said, I came into this world kind of going, huh. What's this all about and I always felt this slight detachment, and I literally would lie I didn't sleep, pretty much my entire childhood, I would lie awake at night, every time I close my eyes it still happens today but as a child it was much more vivid. I get what most people describe as an ayahuasca trip. You know people describe some psychedelic experiences on my. I have that every time I close my eyes, but not normal. Okay. But as a kid yeah every time I close my eyes I would literally see this kaleidoscope you know like those kaleidoscopes used to have fractal patterns but it was all animated pixelated. I would go on these whole journeys and it had auditory component to it as well. And it was quite terrifying. But it was, it was like where's the end of the universe if we're here you know that's the universe what's beyond that and where do I fit and I just had this kind of connection to something beyond this. So I feel like my quest for knowledge is trying to find safety you know I was trying to find what how do I exist, what is, I wanted to explain myself and my existence, because it felt so tangible it's felt, you know, like it was precarious, in a sense. And I work with a lot of people now who are very empathic very intuitive and they live in this in what I call in the fuzzy place right. Am I here am I not here I work with a lot of people who've had near death experiences and who really sort of know what it is to not be embodied, and to be embodied and making decisions all the time about how do I marry those two things. So I think this quest for absorbing knowledge was part of, you know, one thing I often say about the human body is it's either running the safe program or the unsafe program right if we're in safe mode, everything self regenerating self repairing self healing, when we're in unsafe mode we divert resources to dealing with threat, and therefore those other things aren't going on and that's where we get into disease and dysfunction. So really all we're trying to do is make ourselves feel safe right and so my information gathering was a means to make myself feel safe in my environment. I had a lot of separation anxiety as a child, you know, even going to bed at night was tormenting to me I used to be in bed all the time. And so, you know, it was just to terrify me that I could hear my mom go to bed and then my dad because he was doing shows would come in later than I'd hear him go to bed and I'm like, I'm on my own in this crazy place I don't want to be here. And I was terrified but the information helped me regulate myself so we're always looking to feel safe and to regulate. And so, you know, when we talk today about truth and everyone's on this quest for truth and it's, they're using information gathering as a means to achieve that it's really just people want to feel safe but safe is not an intellectual process safe is it is a feeling right it's a physical embodiment. And so, yeah. I think that's you know just kind of brought up when you were talking about this investigation thing it's like why am I doing that. [Speaker 3] (22:51 - 23:11) Yeah, I have that too. I have the one line I'm a five one though. So one is all about seeking that secure foundation through that investigative process so I totally get that resonates with me in different ways I mean I didn't, I didn't have kaleidoscopic eyes at night and things like that but you know it definitely wanting to feel safe like I know. [Speaker 2] (23:11 - 23:37) Yeah, and I mean what we're talking about really is the inherent fear of the unknown, right, like, even even with what's going on right now and no one really knows what's going on but even within the truth community or if I have if I believe this piece of information if I believe this narrative or if someone can explain it this way, then all of a sudden there's something known which I can pretend to stand on for a little bit of time. But at the end of the day, we don't know anything about anything about anything. [Speaker 1] (23:38 - 23:44) Nothing, nothing you know it's, you know, even. Well, I know I'm here. [Speaker 2] (23:44 - 23:45) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (23:49 - 24:49) I'm here, whereas here you know is it a yes coordinate. Well, who am I you know when you look at the gut microbiome the oral microbiome the skin micro but we are more other species than we are us right we have fewer human cells, then we do all these other cells you know we look at the mitochondria in the body which are the little kind of battery generators that do energy conversion for us in ourselves. And each cell I mean you know liver cells can have, you know, a couple of thousand mitochondria within one cell and we've got several trillion cells in the body mitochondria have their own DNA that parasites they're not us. They are separate entity that's coming to symbiosis with us so I'm a collective. Right. I'm not a thing. I'm not one being you know I work hands on with a body but it's just a collection of creatures you know I am. [Speaker 2] (24:49 - 24:55) And they're constantly changing and constantly rotating so really like you're not even the same moment to moment. [Speaker 1] (24:56 - 27:27) Nothing's the same we get a whole new body every few months right everything's changed turning over and then when you even look at matter and mass. Well, we're not actually mass where we are, you know, people, you know, look at sort of atomic or subatomic level level and they're looking at particles and like they're a thing. Particles I have this wonderful phrase that came from one of the faculty members of the physics stuff that I study particles are a behavioral event. So they're not, they're not stuff. We are just a behavioral event within the field, you know, and then what is the field, well it's like water, you know, is a fish aware of the water it's swimming in. We're just swimming in a field, but it doesn't feel like there's anything there but if you then get a in the water if you get like a vortex right around your plug hole or whirlpool or something, suddenly that you can feel that right there's resistance there's a gravitational there's a resistance and then as you get too close to gravitational attraction. So then you think it's a thing. But it's really just a swirl in the field. And when you look at unified physics which is looking at how do we correlate the quantum level with the sort of Newtonian physics classical physics level because as we all know the classical physics model breaks down at the quantum level unified physics seeks to unify across all scales what's actually going on. And when you look at it from a perspective of field dynamics it is like a fluid flow and that we are just a swirl within the field that makes us feel like we're tangible, but we're essentially a black hole. And where we exist is sort of on the event horizon of the black hole which is where the information is right and then we tend to exist here and look at what everything from us to infinity right we think of everything that expands outwards from us, the universe the multiverse is whatever to infinity. What we don't consider is that there's the equivalent amount of infinity from our event horizon inwards. [Speaker 3] (27:28 - 27:29) Right. [Speaker 1] (27:29 - 28:16) So, when I've started to visit that with with with the sort of unified physics model and you start looking at the, the particles and the behavioral events of the field going to infinity and how it is infinitely small within us and we're the midpoint between the two, but we're all about what's happening out here and we're not taking care of what's going on in here. Then you, you, you, again a sort of changing of what is the concept of me, where am I in all of this and then you put sort of consciousness and a soul or whatever on top of that. So, so yeah I mean this is, these are the kind of rabbit hole black holes. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (28:16 - 28:54) And I mean, as the as the great hermetic axiom says as above so below, as within, so without. And it's almost like what you've done, which is a very logical approach from, from my point of view is exploring the macros and by understanding the micro some of you guys so detail oriented towards. What's the smallest particles or the inward journey the physical right and in doing so we can understand the universe by understanding the inner physiology, the inner laws that rule our vessel here in whatever this existence is. [Speaker 1] (28:55 - 30:57) Yeah, and that's what the unified physics kind of model describes is that when you look at the, the geometry and the mechanics if you like of the black holes that make us up of which there are infinite number. Everything repeats at scales you know the universe is like a sort of series of nested Russian dolls with same patterns repeating at scale and what. So the work that I, I've been studying is the work of the physicist Nassim Haramein, and he's just about to publish a paper that literally provides the equations that unify everything from the sub Planckian scale so we've got, you know, proton atoms that are made up of protons the protons are made up of what are called Planck spherical units, and there are 10 to the 40 that's the one with 40 zeros after it PS use these pumps spherical units per each proton body. And then there's the sub level which is the equivalent between a sub Planck and the Planck is scalar, the scalar equivalent is us to halfway across the universe you know so this is the depths of infinity you go to in the small stuff. And he's got equations that basically unify the physics right from that sub Planckian level right through to universal cosmological level, so you can look at a spiral galaxy, and it has the same structure and geometry, as all the, the spirals of the sub Planckian little, you know, events that are happening at that minuscule level. They're just repeating at different scales. So that definitely is that microcosm versus the macrocosm, it is all the same thing. So yeah, that's, you know, just mind blowing when you start to look at that but it's also so simple. You have to kind of go to the complex to find out, it's really quite simple. [Speaker 3] (30:58 - 31:39) You know, I want to ask you this. Because we're primarily the other, you know, when we list this microbiome and or everything we have all these bacteria and other particles and this and that and fungi and parasites, like this obsession with fearing the other like, oh, now this thing called. I'm trying to use these code words on here, you know, especially in the first part, but this, this thing that everyone's been taught is like the most dangerous thing against humanity which I mean from what I've read it hasn't even been figured out to be a thing, you know, so like what I just like what just talk about that a little bit like what are your thoughts on even that, like, [Speaker 1] (31:39 - 34:02) I mean, for me it's, you know, it's about resonance harmony. You know, when we are talking about a parasite a bug of some sort that's in the field and that you know, again, most people have this idea it's attacking us you know we're always sort of anthropomorphizing these things to, to, you know, well they're attacking me, you know, the osteopathic thinking is not that something external to us attacks us, it's our duty to have a vessel that can come into harmony and resonance with any visitors from outside of our localized field. And if we are unable to do that then that's our responsibility it's not its fault for attacking us. It's whether we're, we are in a state of coherence that is able to adapt, you know, we talk about, you know, survival of the fittest the sort of Darwinian model. Again, it's, it's, there are behavioral kind of edicts that are put into that, oh well it's dog eat dog it's a competitive world. That's not how which nature works it's a collaborative model, right. So it's not survival of the fittest, it's survival of the adaptable. So how flexible, are you. And can you shift and adapt we're doing that on a minute by minute moment by moment basis all the time you know if the temperature suddenly gets too hot in this room. We can only exist between a very narrow temperature range in the body. So, our system is going to automatically start to adapt to bring our temperature up or bring it down depending on environmental conditions so we're in this constant state of adaptation, and our ability to survive is directly correlated to our ability to adapt, you know, which is why a young kid who's full of vitality and health and adaptability flexibility in the body, they can break their pelvis and get over it in the matter of a few months, an elderly person who has less adaptability is more rigid less elastic less flexible, that could kill them right because they're not able to adapt to it. [Speaker 3] (34:02 - 34:41) So, you can see that with with children, even just emotional flexibility like you see a child who's just like goes from literally looking like a psychopath, and then a second later laughing. It's just like this dance between emotion and it doesn't sound like five minutes later, they're thinking about that moment where they were a psychopath, you know what I mean when they wanted to bite someone's ear off, they're just like okay great there's a ball in a lake and I'm gonna and some mud I'm cool. You know what I mean it's just like this, this dance and I think you will you say that emotional flexibility and physical flexibility is such a good, such a huge piece of your work and, and your knowledge so just, I'd love for you to just keep talking about that. [Speaker 2] (34:41 - 34:46) And how do we, how do we maintain that. What are some of the keys that you've discovered you know. [Speaker 1] (34:47 - 42:58) Yeah, well for me physical and emotional flexibility go hand in hand you know they are one and the same thing and so you know obviously I'm working hands on with a lot of people. So, to the state of somebody's tissues is, is there under my hands and it doesn't lie. You can tell me whatever story you want to tell me with your words, my body, the body is good at your body is going to tell its own story and I often feel that my role in that process is I translate what the story is telling to you if you're not able to hear it if you're listening through a different lens and you're not hearing the clear message that's coming through. I often you know when I'm working on on people's bodies it's often like I feel like the body gate Oh God someone's listening. And then I can translate that for people. So, when you think of emotional flexibility we come back to that idea of am I running the safe program on I am I running the unsafe program. If I'm safe in my environment, I can be flexible right I can let anything come at me and I'm good with it, I can be in my juicy kind of self. If I'm under threat so if we think of you know sort of primitive humans living under constant threat of a predatory attack. When we encounter a predator we, we have to become rigid right we have to develop a shell. So we will take on a posture of what's called the sympathetic nervous system which is that fight or flight system sets certain processes into motion when we are perceiving some sort of threat. And one of those is it's going to create muscle tension, right so we're ready to run or attack that's this thing. But what will also happen to the fascia in the body so the fascia is a connective tissue that literally coats everything in our body and we have many many layers of it, but in particular we have a layer beneath the skin what's called subcutaneous, and it's very much dialed into our emotional states, because when we are under attack, we need to create body armor right because we might be physically attacked so we need to create a shell around us. So when I'm working on people I can feel and you know as a, you know, hands on practitioner with very refined skills you can tell the difference between what's fascial tension what's muscle tension you know different tissues have a different palpatory kind of sensation, when you're working on them. And you can often, or I tend to have a good perception of what is emotionally driven tension in the body and what is I just, you know, ran a marathon yesterday, it's kind of freaked out. And again, that's just a protective mechanism when the body goes, holy hell, what just happened right. So the physical and emotional are the same thing that they play out in the tissues of our body. So therefore, when I'm working on tissues people people come to me and say I want you to get rid of this muscle tension or you know what they perceive as muscle tension which often, more often is actually fascial tension. But again, we come back to this question of what and why you know it's, it's not, you know, I perceive it as arrogant as a practitioner if I go well I'm just going to beat that tissue into submission with aggressive massage techniques or people that use these fascia busters and think you know these tools to attack their body tissues. If you attack a body tissue, you're going to get a defense response. It'll initially surrender so often you go I feel really loose after treatment and the next day you stiff again, right, because the body went, what the hell did you do to me I'm going to have to defend myself again. So, the body is so intelligent and it's way more intelligent, you know, there's a difference between intellect and intelligence, right, the body is highly intelligent most of us have intellectual thoughts that we impose on the body and assume we know what's best. If a muscle or a fascial area is tight. The body has a jolly good reason for it being there, right, it is doing it, possibly to stabilize and unstable joint that might be over there, underneath there. So if I as a practitioner coming to go oh this is tight I'm going to beat that into submission, take that out. Well now you've destabilized the joint that that that tight muscle was protecting. And so guess what, the body's going to go, it's wobbly again let's lock that up again which is why people say I have a massage feel great and then I then two days later it's back again and you're just in this to and fro thing. The same with an emotional state if I just come in and beat the fascia into submission and somebody goes oh now I feel like a limp noodle I feel great. But you haven't addressed the behavioral pattern that was driving that needs to protect oneself is just going to come back again. So, you have to address the, the, the why, not the what. And so I'm not going to take away something without replacing it so if there's an unstable joint under there well let's find a way to stabilize that joint, then that muscle doesn't have to grip. Similarly, with emotional fascial protection mode. If I just take that away but we haven't addressed why do you not feel safe. Then it's just going to come back. So whether it's a physical instability or an emotional instability that's driving that tissue tension, you have to deal with the why and and make sure you're putting you can't take something away in the body without putting something in. Right. So, that's again a lot of the missing piece when people go for treatment is they're not not asking the right question, and they're not replacing something. If they're taking something away. So that often means we have to go quite deep and, and we have to find you know coming to your question Joel about what do we do about it if we're talking about not feeling safe, you know, which is anxiety you know all of those kind of emotional expressions that might manifest in many different ways, overly aggressive aggressive anxious you know they're all just fear based responses. People don't feel safe so when you boil it down to that. We have to teach for a lot of people we have to learn what safe feels like because you know it's not a thought, it's a feeling. And a lot of people just like I don't even know what safe feels like in my body, how do I get there. So that's a process we have to go through for for finding a tangible sensation of safety in the body, so that you can then dial that up at any given moment, it's always in your toolkit, either to preempt a situation that you know is often emotionally triggering for you, or to be able to redress an anxious expression. And again you know a lot of people will say to me I want you to get rid of my anxiety. No, you don't. It serves a purpose right the body knows what it's doing. What we're talking about is, if, is that expression of anxiety, either appropriate to any given situation, or proportionate, you know if you're sitting in your bedroom, stressing about a job interview the next day but there's no physical threat in your environment, it's not appropriate for you to be like, because you're not under threat. But if you step out into traffic and a car comes out of nowhere you want that system to come online and pull you out of there so it's a that's a that's an appropriate expression of that fear response. So when we understand those distinctions, and we understand what does safe feel like versus this unsafe feeling, then we can start to be more discriminate and proportionate with our responses but it's like anything the body, you've got to train it. [Speaker 3] (42:58 - 43:54) Yeah, and that's, you know, that's the interesting thing too when you think about, you know what a person went through in their childhood you know if their, if their foundational environment was like chaotic and the opposite of safe like it's, it's so important to to do that work but initially the person when they first, this is what I find maybe, maybe it's different your experience like when they first get a taste of what that feeling is that can be more destabilizing because they're used to the chaos, like the chaos is what's comfortable to them, the drama is what's comfortable to them. And so it's just, it is this slow process of doing that work and being with the person and and slowly allowing them to feel that it's okay, you know what I mean like it's it's an interesting thing when you see people like why do you keep going towards that that chaotic abusive relationship and then it's like, oh well you know this person was like their mom and their dad or the environment they grew up in so it's, it's just fascinating to think about what you're [Speaker 1] (43:54 - 47:12) talking about there is, is, you know, I was talking very simplistic terms about this safety idea but like you say for people whose only experience has been that chaos. There is a conflation between safety and familiarity. So, we are rewarded as, as, as children in particular we are, you know, we're all about survival right we are a species that cannot survive as a young member of that species without parental help right some animals are born and they're immediately skipping off and being independent, we are wholly dependent on our parent or parent or caregiver for our survival if we're left on our own, we don't make it. So therefore our biology is very much programmed to bond with the caregiver, and to keep them safe at all costs. So we when we're around the caregiver we create dopamine and all these kind of reward chemicals to make to reward us for being close to that person who will keep us safe and when we're away from them we get the anxiety response to tell us don't do that, go for this so we are chemically being, you know, Pavlov's dogs being conditioned for these responses. So when you get this mismatch where a caregiver who should be providing your safety and security is doing the opposite and is destabilizing you. You have this cognitive dissonance of this person is trying to keep me safe. Therefore, whatever they can do no wrong, right so as a child you cannot have you cannot have a belief system where the person who's keeping you safe can do wrong, because that's going to threaten your survival. So therefore you go it must be me. So that's where we get the shame and the blame coming in. But also, we, the anxiety response we feel around the caregiver. We're also getting this conflation where, well that is familiar therefore it's safe, because if I'm around that this is the person who's supposed to keep me safe so feeling this anxiety must be safe. Right, so it's this it gets very complex as we as we get into these kind of layers. So therefore, you will always go towards what's familiar, because the chemistry has been skewed between safe and unsafe. So if you're used to abusive behavior. It feels familiar to you so you'll keep going towards that even at a subconscious level even though consciously you might be like, no, your, your biology is rewarding being around an aggressive person, or being dominated and you being submissive within that relationship. So this is where that conflation occurs so if somebody has those sort of triggers going on we have to look at reprogramming the nervous system and putting new labels on the safe and unsafe and the familiar versus the unfamiliar, so that they're more again appropriate labels for those sensations in the body. [Speaker 2] (47:13 - 48:07) So like taking this concept to a collective level, the primary care caregiver for most of us was the schooling system, a lot of the time right I mean we spend 15,000 odd hours being molded by these government institutions, where we, we feel, I guess, quote unquote, this is familiar to us. We taught and indoctrinated to obey and to comply and by obeying and complying then we're not going to get in trouble and therefore we're going to be safe. Now all of a sudden we living in this time where the government is telling us to obey and comply, so you can be safe. And I think it's, then we can begin to develop reason as to why some people might be so hesitant to step out of line. When they've now adopted the government as their primary safety or their primary caregiver on some level. [Speaker 1] (48:08 - 51:00) Yeah, absolutely. It is, you know, behavioral programming is so powerful and it's something you know I've been looking at in myself for the last couple of years and really picking apart. Oh, is that programming or is that really what I believe and, and, and it's, it's hard and it's, you know, it's confronting at times you're like, holy hell I've been thinking that all the time that's just a behavioral program I don't really believe that at So yes, and it's this sort of hierarchical structure that's been, you know, imposed again on on at all scales in society, starting with, with schooling. And, you know, certainly my training, I work a lot with arts training right, which can be very abusive, you know, in a well meaning way, well it's a tough profession so if we don't beat you into submission you're not going to be tough enough to survive the which is completely goes against everything we know about psychology and how we actually create self worth and self value. So yeah, there's, there's a whole host of things that we're exposed to as children that that that take away our sense of agency our sense of, I have some control in this that I am completely dependent upon everyone around me telling me what to do. And I think, you know, it's become worse with the advent of social media and, you know, you know, we see, you know, there are studies with children you know we were talking about chemical bonding right you get a reward chemical for being around your caregiver and an anxiety chemical from being away from them. Children now have those chemical bonding mechanisms program to their devices so their devices have become their parent and their caregiver. When you get you know I always say to people I work with a lot of people on on social media or device addiction and when you get that got to check my phone got to check my phone which is happening how many times a day for people you know check my messages messages. That's what what is chemically driving you to do what what is that, you know, it's not, you know, you say oh it's it's my brain telling me yeah but what what you know again it's why why why. It's actually a cortisol response a stress hormone being being. You're away from your caregiver. Stress, right, so your stress drives you to pick up the phone that will go to the computer whatever the devices. And then when you get the download of whatever it is you've gone to see you get a dopamine which is your happy reward chemical feedback. [Speaker 3] (51:00 - 51:03) I've got a like I got a new follower someone sent me a message. [Speaker 1] (51:03 - 53:38) I'm loved. Yeah, I am getting a special. I mean something to somebody. Yeah. So it is this, so you're in this dance of like cortisol adrenaline, so cortisol dopamine cortisol dopamine cortisol dopamine and it's addictive right dopamine is addictive it's when we talk about chemical dependency and addiction to cocaine and things like that it's not cocaine, people are addicted to per se it's the dopamine response that you get from taking cocaine that you're addicted to right it's your own chemistry. So, so people are in this chemical dance with their devices. And again with a child, it's the same as a caregiver so if you say right, I'm going to punish you and take your phone away from you. They're going to experience separation anxiety the same as if they've been removed from a parent. Right, so that's why they're going to scream and shout and feel like they're being punished because chemically they are being punished for being away from their phone. So, so now we're seeing bonding mechanisms to inanimate objects. And with all the things that could they could be exposed to on that device then driving even more layers of, you know, and again all they want to know is am I safe, and we've moved from living in communities, you know, for the most part, where you're brought up by the community and you've got the neighbors and all the relatives living nearby and there's this, you know, kind of group situation, which we are wired to keep each other safe as a group as a collective, it's a collaboration right now we live in these more isolated existences with smaller family units and even just a single parent and a child in some cases, so the community becomes the infinity that expands when you go into that device right it's just like we were talking about the infinities either side of us you know there's that whole thing that expands when you go into that well, and now I have community, you know, back in my childhood when we didn't have phones and all these internet and all these kind of things. You know, it was the soap operas on TV and I was in a TV driven household with my dad being a TV director. So we were, you know, the conversation over the garden fence became watching the soap opera and hearing the gossip from you know this became our community. So we've outsourced physical community for this, you know, virtual community, but it might ask you something on that. [Speaker 2] (53:38 - 53:44) Do you sense there's any benefit to online community or to virtual community. [Speaker 1] (53:44 - 54:38) Yeah, yeah, I'm not one of these kind of purists can't have any of this stuff I mean look at us talking on on this amazing device right now you know it is incredible, but it's like anything. Everything in moderation it's great, you know, you know, a glass of wine is lovely but if you have three bottles of wine you're in trouble right. And if you're addicted to having that and you can't survive without it, it's a problem. So it's all again about appropriate and proportionate use of these devices you know I'm an English person living in the States, having internet and all these abilities to be able to speak to people thousands of miles away is absolutely wonderful. But if I spend all day every day. Yeah, on this and I don't ever speak to anyone in my community, not so healthy, and the thing is it's like these technologies is social, it's a tool. [Speaker 3] (54:38 - 55:08) Now how do you use the tool the problem is our social engineers, the people who create this technology they understood all these vulnerabilities vulnerabilities or realities of the human psyche, or like this chemical process that goes on. And so as they play on that so it's like you have to even like be even more like in tune with yourself, present to be like okay I'm going to, I'm going to use this device or I'm going to share some information that I'm going to go off of it, you know, but it's it's tricky because, you know, you started getting that dopamine. It's seductive. [Speaker 1] (55:08 - 56:53) It's seductive and it's also that same sense of, where do I start and end, you know, where do I end and it begins, which can happen with parents as well you know some people who are so like bonded with their parent they can't then separate and then they, you know still living at home in their 40s and unable to become independent. It's a similar sort of setup we have to, you know, but with a parent they're normally kind of policing that situation for you and helping you to become independent, whereas with a device that's an inanimate object, it's always wanting to bring you draw you in to sell you something it's you know it's driven by corporations who just don't really care about you they just want to make some money right so yeah that that smudging of, again, the self versus the other. And that is something you know even though I've talked about what is self and it is a very nebulous concept. Anyway, we have to, you know, for me the self is a feeling, it's a sense of coherence in my body truth for me is a sense of, am I in coherence am I in resonance with this piece of information to this person or this situation, or is there something off in my system but if you've never learned to listen to that you've never learned to learn the language of the body, then you're not going to have that tool available therefore you're just in a constant state of being pulled in all these different directions and you're much more prone to being, you know, sucked into an addictive kind of pathway because you don't have that point of reference you know most [Speaker 2] (56:53 - 57:59) people just need a point of reference that is then so that they can judge from that place, and from from my perspective like what you just described to me is intuition, intuition is simply coherence with the body and understanding what the body is comfortable with and when it's when it's not. But the issue that most people experience is that because they spent so long rejecting the advice of the body or rejecting their intuition, then they go out and they make decisions we tell little white lies we make actions which are against what our inherent nature and our spirit, and we disconnect from that even more than what we find ourselves in is in this state where we're just grasping at anyone that's it's to save us and to show us some semblance of truth. Because we become disembodied in that process because we're so disconnected from from who we really are and what our bodies really saying that literally anything can then come and I guess contaminate our field in that way because that strength of connection with our intuition with our body is so frail at that point. [Speaker 1] (57:59 - 59:12) Yeah, yeah, you're just sort of dissolving your cohering into the field rather than being in this state of coherence and it's, you know, you know, this is what we should be teaching in schools, right, that for me it's the fundamental, you know, tool or sensation that can carry us through this world you know yes intellectual information is useful to navigate this world, but if you don't have that that that point near that compass point underneath it all of that, that sense of self whatever however you describe that, then you're really, yeah, just just in a constant sort of floating state and we've talked about, you know, being adaptable, but being adaptable requires a point of reference, so that you can be elastic and reach out there but you're anchored back here and you will recoil back to center whichever way you go from it. Yeah, that you're just, you know, floating on the, on the thermals and being carried somewhere that you may not wish to go. [Speaker 2] (59:12 - 59:39) And this is the exact message of the Lemniscate, which some people refer to as the infinity symbol, right, but simply that that point of reference and coming back to that sensor and realizing that we extend that then we come back and we extend and we come back. And like this is this is the underlying premise of the of the universe is this is this flow, you know, and this is what understanding you mean that the laws of the universe is so powerful and impactful for everything that you do in your life. [Speaker 1] (59:40 - 1:00:34) Totally, and it was so interesting that you bring up that infinity symbol the Lemniscate and I was up in the Sequoia National Forest, September last year. And, you know, there's so much that nature can teach us right the trees everything I learned a whole new thing about fascia from from just putting my hands on the bark of one of these giant Sequoia trees. And then I was sitting watching a river, a beautiful river there and I was there all these rocks in it and there was this beautiful Lemniscate pattern going on with the Eddies in this water and I just sat there and, oh, and I met I went back to the place I was staying and I got a pen and paper and I mapped that infinity symbol which is not just like a flat eight right it's 3d it's right thing. I mapped that for every joint in the body. [Speaker 3] (1:00:35 - 1:00:36) Wow. [Speaker 1] (1:00:37 - 1:03:47) All Lemniscate and as you walk you know there's a there's a forward to back one there's a side to side one. And then I was able to see what observing, you know, I spend my life, observing people's gate patterns. You know, it's noisy in my head. But I could see it was like, oh, that person's missing the left arc of the, of the, the, the eight if you like the figure eight in their hip it's just cranking from the right. So if I can use that image for them to say right there's a there's a infinity symbol going this way in your hips, and I want you to find each arc of it and I felt it in my own body as well my left hip is a little cranky from my dancer days. And as I was walking I was like, Oh, I'm missing the back arc of that eight and as soon as I consciously put that in. I suddenly was springing along and I was like, Oh, this is efficient. You know I'm always looking for efficiency in the body body how little effort do we need to ambulate through space right. And so that infinity sign it's just so I that's a whole another thing on my list of things to do that I have endless things obvious to really document that out and I called it lemon escapes with a P, like the scapes, like, and that, you know, it could be a whole new movement education system for people that's very visual, you know, rather than saying well your left it's that you know it just gives people a visual to work with. And actually I found I started, you know I thought was anybody else come up with this you know of course and sort of looked on the net you know my original thought you know my grasping that end of that rainbow. And I found a French guy who uses he's got a machine that takes people's feet through this figure eight for neurological recovery from sort of stroke damage and for movement for movement disorders and was having amazing, because again it's just this inherent shape it's sacred geometry right, the, the body knows. And, you know, again when you're talking about true you know when I'm teaching I don't even like that word anymore you know I teach workshops about the body and anatomy. It's when people connect with that information you're not telling them anything that it's their body going, Oh yeah, I get it. I know it already, everyone knows this stuff. And when all I'm doing is reminding. And when you remind someone of this it's like the body just goes, Oh, now you're listening. So, yeah, so that that Lemniscate is just absolutely, you know, a fundamental part of geometry it's the toroidal field right which is the black holes are toroidal fields these sort of donut shape things. And it's actually a double tourists which creates that figure eight infinity symbol. And that's in our geometry it's in the geometry of the cosmos. And when we honor those things. Life becomes a lot easier physically and emotionally. [Speaker 2] (1:03:49 - 1:03:49) Absolutely. [Speaker 3] (1:03:50 - 1:03:52) That was so cool listening to that. [Speaker 2] (1:03:52 - 1:04:18) Oh yeah. And no surprise now I don't know if you guys have noticed but Facebook rebranding to meta is kind of co opting that entire symbol as as their logo. It's a 3d Lemniscate to indicate that moving into the meta the virtual world which they're going to attempt to attempt to overlay. So again, it's always just co opting what's what's what's innate to humans. Yeah. [Speaker 3] (1:04:19 - 1:05:03) There's so many directions I want to go from here. I love having conversations with you. I'm so happy you live close to me and we're friends. I wish. Dude, Topanga is amazing. Topanga probably is some Lemniscate vortex going on this planet. All right, so you talked before about like a person getting into coherence now I know it's so general and you can deal with individuals on individual level but just like, what, what advice would you give a person to be like to get more into coherence you know to be more connected to that intuition to that, that knowing, you know, so when the world goes insane around them, they don't get swept away with it. [Speaker 1] (1:05:04 - 1:12:56) Right. Yeah, so it comes down to listening to the body getting in touch with the body. And that requires going quiet, which can be uncomfortable for people right people use noise and, you know, interaction with, you know, devices and things as, as, as a safety mechanism because they, they're afraid of the quiet right. So, one of the sort of basic exercises I start with with people to explore this is, is doing a body scan. So it's kind of an active meditation now meditation is something that freaks a lot of people out. Oh, I can't just sit and be quiet my mind's going. So using sort of active processes, you know meditation is an umbrella word that can cover many different, you know, experiences. So doing an active processes is usually, you know, more accessible for people. So I literally have them just you know lie in a comfortable position and start at your feet, and just checking, what can I feel what can I not feel what's under the sole of my foot. Does it feel tense does it feel relaxed. Does my do my feet feel like they're safe, or are they holding on a little bit, and then come up to the ankles then up to the calf muscles up to the knees and you literally slowly go through the whole body, and people will often find an area that like, Oh, my abdomen you know I'm always holding in my belly and can I let that go. And, oh, letting that go. Oh, that's safe so what we what the nervous system likes to do is to kind of chunk and label things. So, if you. So if your belly is always a little tight and held the brain will probably have labeled that when the nervous system would have labeled that unsafe right I feel unsafe so I've got to break so our stomach is our most vulnerable area right if you're a four legged creature it's nicely protected as humans we brought our most vulnerable area up front and center, ready for that gut punch. So we often brace the abdominal wall to be prepared for the gut punch. So, it becomes so subliminal that we don't know we're doing it. So when you're doing this body scan you're literally going what can I let go of is there something I can let go. I've never experienced that before. Let's label that with. I am safe. So you kind of put a mantra on top of it. I am safe. This is what safe feels like tighten it up, this is unsafe. This is safe. And then looking at breath patterns as well you know how you breathing is your line there. Are you in a sort of upper chest breathing, that's an unsafe breathing pattern it goes with the fight or flight response, can we choose a different breath So again, you can't just take something away without having something to replace it with. So first of all we have to explore for that person. What does safe feel like so it becomes more tangible. So for some people it's shoulders some people it's belly some people it's the breath pattern. So, then, then you can't change anything in the body unless you're aware that you're doing the other thing first and that's the most tricky part so that's kind of the first thing people have got to address. So if it's somebody that always has their shoulders up all the time. And they've never learned to just go, Oh, I've got this option. And this is safe. I have them literally put sticky notes around the house on your computer screen on your fridge door on your bathroom mirror, wherever you know you hang out habitually, and it just put on it, shoulders or belly or breathing whatever your cue is going to be. And so you're like, oh, oh, oh and so you catch yourself you train yourself to bring yourself bring that into awareness it's Pavlov's dogs again right ringing the bell and they salivate, so it's a conditioning response. So until you're aware that how often you're hanging out like this, you're not going to have the awareness to change it so bringing so that's normally the first thing, then making sure they've got an option of what it feels like not to do that. And then labeling that as a safe posture. Then as they've sort of trained that for themselves you can then start putting that into the field experiment right and taking it out into the business meeting or the whatever okay before I walk into that room because I've already done this just thinking about it. Let's dial up the safe posture and take that into the room, so that the nervous system is not starting from eight right we're starting at two, and we've got we've got some ceiling of capacity to go to. And what you'll also find so you can get really deep into this with body language and what you are, you know, most of our communication is non verbal right you know 99% of it. So if you're going into that business meeting like this, you already projecting a fear posture out into the field, and we are all hardwired to read that right we are designed to live in tribal groups and you know if I'm sitting opposite you and some weird creature creeps up behind you I'm going to go like that you're going to do that even though you haven't seen it yet, because what's going to get me is probably going to get you first because you're sitting between the two of us. So we are hardwired to respond without even checking. So, if somebody comes into a meeting like this everyone goes well. You know everyone's on guard already. And if you've got someone in there who likes to find their identity by dominating people, they're going to go, Oh, I found myself a prey. Now they're coming at you right. Similarly, if you go in and in aggressive mode, and somebody is a dominator in there as well they're going to be or now you're the stags butting right so you've got the same problem. Equally if you go in there and completely submissive and I can't make eye contact and, you know, you're going to be preyed upon. So, if you can find this neutral so it comes back to that, who am I right who am I in neutral that calibration point or in neutral. You can diffuse anything that's around you, because you are no longer an aggressor or, or a prey. So your predators going to be sort of like, they get disarmed, you know, quite like it's very inappropriate for me to become aggressive in this situation because your body language is not allowing for it. So then you start to learn that what works for you works for the collective. And that's why I always say we have a collective responsibility to the field and that's a lot of what's gone on in the last year or two is collective fear you know I'm, you know, we talked about the field being like water. So I don't piss in your own water in your own field. So you're putting junk out into the field you're polluting your own field for everybody. So if you can go into the field in a very open neutral space that has a ripple effect through those around you, and therefore you become the puppet master of any situation you're in emotionally, you're always safe right I know that I can go into any situation no matter how aggressive someone's being, I can pretty much defuse it. Obviously there are times when people are off the scale and then you just remove from that path right but on that more subliminal level, you can neutralize a lot of behaviors therefore you're making yourself feel safe in the process, and everyone else. [Speaker 3] (1:12:56 - 1:13:30) So it's just less exhausting for everybody, you know, there's that word that everyone throws around, and what this is what we're talking about is presence. You know people say like, oh, you got to be present you got to be present you know and it's like well this is what it is it's like the ability to respond to whatever the appropriate response to the situation you're in the most appropriate response is going to come when you're present when you're in that neutral place, and you're not thrown off your center and you don't get caught up in this emotional back and forth, arguing yelling because it's like someone to go crazy, and you can just like talk about emotional flexibility and [Speaker 2] (1:13:30 - 1:13:34) I was gonna say, we're most adaptable in neutral. Right. [Speaker 1] (1:13:35 - 1:14:04) Yeah, you're adaptable there. I call it autocorrect, you know for people that kind of language, it's like if you've got a tall building and it's built absolutely rigid, a lot of your hard wind comes along and it's just going to crack and break. Whereas if it's built to autocorrect. You can not just autocorrect. So, it's much more energy efficient in the body but it's also, you know, going to manage the collective energy around you as well. [Speaker 3] (1:14:05 - 1:14:47) Yeah, okay so I want to, I want to talk about something if you're willing to talk about it since we're talking about structure. Okay, is because you have such experience of putting your hands on people. And in the last, however long. Professional context of course. Yeah, yeah, of course professional context. I mean maybe out of experience too you know I mean, I just say it. I'm neutral on that. Um, you know, there, there has been this thing lately that is the, the, the new mandated medicine. And I'm curious like what has been your experience with it, you know, being around people or working with people that have made the choice you know the personal choice to take part in that. [Speaker 1] (1:14:48 - 1:21:46) Yeah, and you know it's, it's, again if you take it out of the, you know, language that we put around these sorts of things and look at it again as a frequency thing. Everybody's going to respond in different ways because everybody's coming to that with a different mindset some people are like, totally bought in. This is a miracle thing. It's going to work for me. Some people have reservations about it and they're feeling forced to get it so therefore they're coming in with a different, you know, we call it the biology of belief right. Our biology is set up in different ways, whether we're in alignment with something or not in alignment with it. So we have to kind of look at, look at those sorts of factors, when we're talking about this, but in my experience of working hands on with people who've chosen to have it it was, you know, we always say you know in research correlation is not causation so these are just kind of experiences that I've had that have been shared by many of the hands on practitioners that I know that we all suddenly collectively started saying, are you noticing this going on and I haven't, you know, it's something that's happened over this time period. And what I noticed was that it's something I was picking up with my hands but it's also something that patients were reporting to me as well this kind of sense of the body being a lot more kind of almost like a sense of water retention, kind of the sort of term people have been using that I use for as well as this sort of sense you've got a layer of blubber just under the skin. And as I was working on people, you know you can feel the skin, the fascia, then the muscle, and between that you've got the sort of subcutaneous tissue, and there was sort of a sponginess occurring in people who I was working on who had recently undertaken the offering that is being offered by the medical profession at the moment. And so it was just something I was picking up on. And then I would find that I was experiencing that myself having worked on somebody, hands on. And then I was speaking to other practitioners and I started to notice this and I hadn't told anyone I was just still trying to figure it out a bit myself. And then a friend of mine who's a massage therapist said, I've been picking up on this kind of, you know, squelchy feeling like water retention feeling and so many of my patients and these are obviously people that we used to work with before so we knew what their normal kind of tissue state was and then they're coming back having had the, the, the sort of intervention and then suddenly this change had happened. So it was something that I was hearing from from many different sources. And as I, you know, of course I have to, why I have to analyze why. And when you talk about we call this the interstitial space right between the cells so we have ourselves and then we have the spaces between ourselves and the spaces between ourselves are, it's actually the biggest organ of the body the interstitial as we call it because it connects everything right it's between everything in the body. And it's kind of a fluid gel like matrix, but it's also a detox pathway. So if you've got something coming into the cell that's toxic. What the body will do the body's always trying to protect the core right because what goes on right in the core is pretty vital, we're sort of built in constructed in a way that the vital stuff buried more than the, you know, the stuff towards the surface is a little more able to adapt to, to given conditions. So, the body will often detox towards the periphery right it'll push toxins out into the interstitial and the subcutaneous tissue, as it's trying to push it out of the body. So that was kind of my sense of the body was in some sort of detox process and trying to push a foreign entity out of the cells. And, you know, this idea of being able to transmit that to other people obviously I was then experiencing that myself in my body. Again, I listened to so many different perspectives on this and try and pick up commonalities of what people are thinking. And one of the sort of prevailing theories is that there is some sort of expression via the kind of the sweat glands in the body that something is being transmitted out that way we know sweating is detox. Right. So there's something that's been sweated out of the body that potentially could be absorbed to someone else and then they needed to sweat that out of the body as well. So I just, you know, started to use like Epsom salt baths and things like that, to help expel that from my body to help draw that out, but also just on an energetic level again it's all just frequency that I would add into my daily kind of practice I have a, you know, I check in with my collective I'm like, I imagine all these microbes and everything that make us up is my collective but to me they're like the little minions from despicable despicable me, you know, like hey guys, what did I not listen to today what do you need what's going on you know I'll just do a check in and do that sort of body scan through my body. And I kind of added into that practice. I reject all frequencies that do not serve my body. So just that sort of mantra on an energetic level, saying, I do not. I choose not to to absorb these frequencies, and you look at people, you know, I have a friend who's a, he's a Swiss prince who was huge in the sort of 60s in London he was friends with the Beatles the stones that yeah, he's lived in Tibet and India he's done it he was like, when we were having a conversation about these shots as they first, you know, appeared and he was like, we used to do snake venom laced with petroleum, you know, but if you get your frequency to a place where you're not allowing that in, you can do anything you know you have these kind of gurus and people who can drink rat poison and it has no effect on them because they do not allow that into their frequency, you know, you have to be kind of ninja level. [Speaker 3] (1:21:46 - 1:21:51) Of course, we don't recommend that don't go out and drink rat poison. Okay. [Speaker 1] (1:21:51 - 1:22:12) But I, I include that to the level that I am able into my kind of self care, if you like, to just say, Okay, I choose not to be in resonance with that and I choose to maintain my field the integrity of my field in the way that I feel is of most benefit to my. [Speaker 3] (1:22:13 - 1:22:47) Well, I think it's a good segue into also real quickly I just want to touch on this topic, because I used to do like a mantra like I raised my vibration above radiation like so like I'm, I, I'm not going to be impacted by these electromagnetic frequencies now we can do the best we can with our home with making things to mitigate things, but I know this is also an area that you've studied and gone down the rabbit hole of EMS and 5g and so maybe you can talk a little bit about that and the potential impacts on the body of an individual who isn't someone who can trans alchemize or transmute rat poison you know for the average person. [Speaker 1] (1:22:48 - 1:30:33) Yeah. It's also the concept of what we call allostatic load in the body so that's, you know, I live on an island where everything's clean and there's no EMF and whatever and I get exposed to an environmental toxin, then my whole immune system is available to deal with that and you'll probably deal with it quite well, you know if you I hate to sort of, you know, reduce the body to, you know, basic terms and particularly to weaponize terms but if you think of your immune system as being like you have an air force and an army and Navy and you've got all these different areas of your immune system that are often fighting battles so if you live in somewhere where there's a lot of air pollution okay so the Air Force are out there, dealing, you know, some of your troops are out there, trying to neutralize the air pollution. Then if you're drinking water that's not very pure then you've got your Navy's out, you know, dealing with that. And then you've got, I don't know, you know foods that you're eating that are not the best for you and so then your guts having to deal with that so your, your immune system is very busy. And then you add EMF frequency on top of that and you've got no troops left is going to over, you know, suddenly, the looting starts right because all the police are out elsewhere, and there's a back door open and you're going to be overcome. So we, this is known as allostatic load in the body that sometimes so I've worked with a lot of people who have EMF sensitivity hypersensitivity I would argue we were all sensitive but some people have symptoms from that, right, because perhaps their system, it was the fire, it was the straw that broke the camel's back, that made them respond in that way whereas someone else can be around it not seem to have a problem. It's a bit like the whole gluten thing you know all our bodies have a problem with gluten, but if some people are generally quite healthy and they're not fighting too many battles, their bodies mopping up every time they eat gluten and they're not getting symptoms and the gut lining repairs every three days you know so you get a whole new gut lining so if you're able to repair. Then you're not noticing the symptoms. If you've not got many repair mechanisms available because they're all fighting a lot of other battles suddenly you start to notice symptoms from it. So it's that's that it kind of explains why some people I have no problem with it. Other people do, but essentially it's another toxin it's it's, you know, we, we term it electro smog. Right, you can't see it so it's often ignored from that sense but it's a frequency that is not in resonance with, you know, our bodies are all frequency and vibration we have an electromagnetic field or our organs have electromagnetic fields and they all resonate at certain frequencies that are measured in Hertz right. And it's a bit like you remember in the old days when you when mobile phones were kind of new and if you put it down next to your cassette player or something you know something with speakers and used to get that noise so we could hear the interference in the field. So that's essentially happening in our bodies as a frequency that's coming in, and our, our bodies are not in resonance with that so it creates an immune response in the body, and it manifests in many, many different ways. The thing with with the 5g that's that's different about that it's not just about the power of the signal because people are often talking about oh it's a more powerful signal. It's actually more about the pulse rate. So they're different, you know, carrier frequencies have a different pulsation rate. And again, it's that kind of, it's a bit like a pneumatic drill that just kind of goes through your body like that's just, you know, that vibration is really, you know, harsh on my body. It's that sort of interference this pulsating interference that is particularly troublesome for our body and what's been shown with that sort of level of pulsation is it's altering the, the membrane of our cells so our cells have, you know, just like we talked about the gut lining right you can have a leaky gut when the cells of the gut separate a bit and they're allowing stuff in that shouldn't come in and then you're getting an immune response to it. The cell walls have the same they have these gates that can open and shut. And they are operated on an electrical kind of pathway. And these are called voltage gated calcium channels so they have a voltage that opens and shuts them and allows calcium in and out of the cells which is required for various, you know, kind of processes in the body. So what happens with the frequency is it makes it messes with that voltage mechanism and it opens the gates. Now we have leaky cells like we have leaky guts and we're getting an increase, you then get a rush of calcium into the cell, and this is caused called raised intracellular intracellular calcium, right, and in raised intracellular calcium levels are the root of many diseases in the body. So we're getting this leaky cell issue too much calcium in the cells and it's messing with with the basic mechanisms of many of our health processes in the body. And then what's also been shown with these, you know, kind of newer frequencies is also opening up blood brain barrier. So again we have the blood brain barrier which is another gated system and it's the most heavily guarded of the body right because the brain is kind of important we can live without various body parts but once the brains offline. We've got a bit of a problem going on. So the brain is heavily defended. But these frequencies are opening up blood brain barriers so any of the toxins so if you've got aluminum or aluminum, as you guys like to call it in the system if you've got heavy metals in your blood system often the brain that's not in the brain right because the brain is heavily defended it's been kept in your bloodstream. So any circulating toxins you've got in your bloodstream suddenly now your blood brain barriers opening up, then I'm getting through the issue is is that the immune defenses in the brain which cells. They're like the, you know, they're the SAS they're the special forces guys of the of the immune system and they come out with cannons right so anything that starts coming through the blood brain barrier, you're going to get a massive kind of immune response to that which creates a lot of inflammation and collateral damage it's like a huge warfare goes on. So once you get blame in brain inflammation into potentially sort of neuro degenerative conditions. So this is what, what we're seeing as you know as these EMF frequencies have evolved and become either more powerful or more pulsating. It's messing with a lot of these electrical beings right and it's messing with our electrical signals and opening up our defenses and leaving us defenseless to other things that may be around. [Speaker 2] (1:30:33 - 1:31:04) Yeah, I think there's a whole podcast that could be explored on this simple topic of EMFs, and I'd love to dive into it. But unfortunately we're gonna have to end this one here, Jenny. You're so amazing. It's just incredible, the wealth and the depth of knowledge that you're able to offer. So grateful for the path and journey that you've walked to be in this culmination of this podcast, and to share this conversation so just really want to thank you for your time, truly. [Speaker 1] (1:31:05 - 1:31:16) My pleasure. I feel like, you know, all the explorations I've done over the years are worth it when I get to go. Hey, this is exciting. So thank you for sharing. [Speaker 3] (1:31:17 - 1:31:24) Yeah, no it's lovely so happy to have you on here and yeah I just wish you the best and I can't wait till we get to hang out again. [Speaker 1] (1:31:25 - 1:31:26) In a hike. [Speaker 3] (1:31:26 - 1:31:34) Yeah, for sure, for sure. Well I'm just happy that you're here for the truth. And that's what it's about, you know, whatever that may be. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:31:35 - 1:31:37) Just about, are you in resonance with it or not. That's. [Speaker 2] (1:31:39 - 1:31:44) Absolutely. Jenny where can people find you and reach out to you if they want to work with you. [Speaker 1] (1:31:45 - 1:32:07) So you can check out my website which is Jenny Morton j e n n i e m o r t o n.com. You can contact me via there. I'm not on social anymore because having as I work with people who have problems with that I decided I have to practice what I preach. That's kind of not too excited by the direction they were taking so I've moved away from that. [Speaker 3] (1:32:08 - 1:32:09) I'm envious. [Speaker 1] (1:32:10 - 1:32:11) So freeing. [Speaker 3] (1:32:12 - 1:32:12) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:32:14 - 1:32:24) And it's not the end of the world, you know, always I've got if I've got one person that wants to chat and work, you know, I'm happy. I don't need that. [Speaker 3] (1:32:25 - 1:32:25) I love it. [Speaker 2] (1:32:27 - 1:32:46) Alright guys, thank you so much for listening to here for the truth. This is Jenny Morton, we're going to put all the details in the show notes, be sure to check her out, and we'll see you next time. Take care. Set the alarms to save you too busy snooze and I'm in a DeLorean.