Alex Hickman Knowledge & Reason

[Speaker 2] (0:00 - 2:34) You are now listening to the Here for the Truth podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Erasmus Stelionesis. Yo, yo, what's up, everybody? Welcome to episode 54 of Here for the Truth podcast. This one was an absolute classic episode, a classic chat, which we recorded yesterday with our good friend, Alex Hickman. We were on his podcast, Project Sovereign, a couple weeks ago. Alex is a very knowledgeable guy. He read 81 books last year. He's been on Unslaved, the platform hosted by our friends, Michael Tasarian and David Whitehead, where Erasmus and I first met. And this was just a great conversation. If you guys haven't checked it out yet, head to hereforthetruth.com. Our website is now live. We would appreciate you guys subscribing, grabbing the merch discount and joining our newsletter because we have lots of exciting things coming. We're building new learning pathways and new avenues for you guys to be here for the truth and to really explore what that actually means in a deeper and more profound way. Enjoy this episode. Here's Alex now. Peace. Alex Hickman, former professional football player, retired at 23 through chronic injury. Began studying the body and holistic well-being through the Czech Institute. Studied multiple spiritual and mystical traditions from across the world, psychology, philosophy, occultism, alternative history. At the same time period, he began investing in real estate. He bought and sold millions of pounds worth over the last eight years. Now, along with his investing ventures, he writes and creates other content that he shares online as a personal brand. His midterm vision is to build a sovereign, a decentralized online community, which is laying the foundation nations for by building the personal brand. He also works with people in the coaching capacity, integrating different maps of consciousness, modalities, and radical honesty. Sorry, I was trying to convert that into third person in real time. Alex, brother, welcome to He For The Truth. Thank you. Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. It's an absolute pleasure. For those that are listening and don't know, we were on Alex's platform, Project Sovereign, a couple of weeks back. So looking forward to this one. Alex is a very interesting guy who's gone down a bunch of different paths. Just to begin, as always, Alex, can you give us a brief history of the major rites of passages that brought you to pretty much where you are now? [Speaker 1] (2:36 - 5:40) Yeah, sure. So I was, as you mentioned there, Joel, I was a professional sportsman here in the UK. So I don't know what it's like in the countries you guys are at, but it's every young lad's dream to play professional sports and everything. And, you know, in all fairness, I was 16, signed a professional contract over here in the UK. Football is the sport. I think it's, you guys call it soccer, I think, but it's football over here. And that's everybody's dream, you know, every young lad and maybe one out of every five to ten thousand, you know, managed to sign a professional contract, something like that. And I got there, me and a good friend, we grew up together. And then I turned, so I signed a professional deal at 16. By the time I turned 19, I was injured for three months at a time. I'd come back for a couple of months, then I'd be out injured again. And then, you know, life sort of threw a few curveballs. And by the age of 23, I'd fallen out of the professional game and my body just couldn't handle playing anymore, really. So that was probably what you've called there a rites of passage. Life put that in the way and I had no choice but to go inside a little bit and contemplate what all this was about. Because my whole entire life would, you know, had been revolved around being this professional footballer. And that got took away through some of my own faults and through, you know, fate, if you like, and luck. And within a week, I had picked up a couple of books and it just completely changed my outlook on life. I was reading some of the Eastern texts. Within a year, I'd read like the Bhagavad Gita and the Vedas and, you know, the Koran and all this stuff. And this was like within 12 months, I'd read all this. I was like, man, what have I been doing for 23 years? You know, it was just, I've been just lost in this whirlpool of noise. And then, so that was seven or eight years ago now. And ever since then, I've been on an entrepreneurial venture, I think you'd label it as. I've bought and sold millions of pounds worth of property. I've trained other people to do the same thing. I've worked for organizations on how to do what I'm doing. I now use a lot of funding away. I use other people's capital and grow their capital for them. So I do that as like a worldly project and worldly venture. But that, you know, that's just, I could lose all that tomorrow and there wouldn't really anything be lost. Do you know what I mean? So that's me up to this point, bro. [Speaker 3] (5:43 - 6:09) I might be muting in and out just because there's some work going on in my home right now. So hopefully you weren't hearing that in the background. But what was it that led you to picking up those books? Like, what was it within yourself where you went from like, oh man, I'm injured all the time. I don't think this, my dream is going to be, my initial dream is going to be the reality. And then, oh wow, I just went into a bookstore and I came across the Vedas, you know? So I'm curious how that was for you, that process. [Speaker 1] (6:10 - 7:55) It was, so I got into Paul Cech. I mentioned the Cech Institute there. I was trying to fix myself somewhat because my hips are sort of all out of alignment now, just from the motion of kicking a football, my groin and my hips and my flexors and everything. So I was trying to fix that. And I was doing that probably towards, as I knew the end was coming, I was trying to fix it to maintain that profession. And that was when I come across, so it moved towards holistic wellbeing, holistic health and moving the body differently to what the chiropractors and the doctors and everything were telling me. So it was probably more thinking about it to do with the holistic physical body, the wellbeing of that. And then I fell into the Cech Institute. I did a few courses on there, started a wellbeing business, personal training. I ended up, I rented a space in this gym. I ended up being the best selling personal trainer that they'd ever had in this one gym locally. And that was more to do with sales than it was to do with, than what I knew, to be honest. There were smarter people than me in that gym. It was just how I could communicate properly. But that's, from there, from that holistic wellbeing, it moved into the more, right, that's the body. So let's work on the psyche and let's look into the soul and ancient Egypt. I fell down that rabbit hole and then, you know, ancient Sumeria and then to Atlantis. And then you sound like a madman, don't you, when you start talking about all this. So then I reeled that back in and then, you know, get back into the real world. You know what it's all about, man. So, yeah, I think to answer your question in a few words, it was to do with the body. And trying to fix the body led me to a more holistic and open-minded journey. [Speaker 2] (7:57 - 8:49) Cool, man. Like, what is it about knowledge that has this power to transform? Like, we come here as human beings and for the most part, we're not automatically aware of what it is that we want to do or how to survive even. You know what I mean? But then at the same time, as human beings, we have this unlimited potential for learning and for knowledge and to pass that on. And you read a book and it's life-changing. Something in you is changed forever. And on some level, clicks with something within you where it's like, wow, this is exciting. This is intriguing. This is a path I want to continue to follow. Just can you talk about from your perspective, like the importance of knowledge and how that's really affected you and changed your life? A vague question, but you get where I'm going. [Speaker 1] (8:49 - 9:57) Yeah, I mean, that's pretty broad. But I mean, knowledge means, you know, it's just to know, right? To know something. And from my perspective, it's got to the point now where knowledge is a limited and linear concept to which you get to the point where you have to give it back up and give it back away again. So at the beginning, that knowledge was like there was a thirst there. It was constant. You could never be fed. Like a ravaging animal, you're just constantly seeking, seeking, seeking this knowledge. Then it got to a point maybe two years ago. And I was like, what am I actually looking at this knowledge for? How is this serving me in anything I'm doing? And I had to at that point sort of, I don't like the word, it's a bit wishy-washy, but surrender that knowledge now to wherever it come from. So I think at the beginning, knowledge is what triggers that light. You know, like the mythology of the phoenix and it burns to the ground and then it comes back up again. [Speaker 3] (9:57 - 9:58) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (9:58 - 10:44) I think that that is the knowledge. I use that analogy in my own mind. That knowledge is the rebirth. But then as you're beginning to fly, you have to sort of release that knowledge back to where it come from, the divine spark or whatever that's within us, because it's already residing there, right? You have to release it again to find that peace. Otherwise, you're just seeking knowledge for knowledge's sake, which is, you know, wisdom for wisdom's sake is obviously better than wisdom to manipulate people. But I just think at the moment where I am in my life, I've had to give up the searching for knowledge in order to find a bit of peace. Because otherwise, I'd have just been on the rabbit rabbit wheel for forever, you know? Yeah. [Speaker 3] (10:44 - 12:18) I actually want to bring that up relative to your human design. I know we brought up human design a little bit in our podcast with you and just touched upon it. And, you know, you provided us with your information. And I just want to touch something. You and I, we both share the one line. So there's something called your profile, which you can say it's an aspect of your personality. And the one line, the lines come from the hexagrams from the I Ching. I'm not going to get too into it, but the one line is the investigator. OK, so the investigator, the one that seeks to build a foundation of knowledge, but it actually comes. There's an inherent like insecurity in the one line. And so we seek that knowledge. We want to build that foundation. Now, you have the three line associated with the one. Now, the three is all about learning through trial and error, through bumping into things, to taking in knowledge and learning. And then ultimately through that process of gaining knowledge, going down these rabbit holes, feeling a secure foundation, figuring out what works, what doesn't work for you. And then bringing that out to the world and offering wisdom because you've been through the journey and you've gone down the rabbit holes and you figured out what worked, what didn't work in your own process. And that's that's the way for you to lead and guide and give that back. So I just wanted to mirror that back to you in terms of how that shows up. And I relate to that in a certain way. You know, we have a different overall profile, but we share the one line. So it doesn't surprise me. And it also doesn't surprise me that in one of your recent podcasts on your page, you said you read 81 books last year. [Speaker 1] (12:19 - 12:20) Yeah. [Speaker 3] (12:21 - 12:41) You know, so that's that's pretty incredible. I would love to take a survey of 7 billion people or however many billion people on this planet right now. I've been like out of you 7 billion. How many of you read 81 or more books last year? And I would have to say that number is probably very small. [Speaker 1] (12:41 - 13:23) Would you agree? Yeah, I'd say so. But but you know what the like I don't wear that with a badge of honor. It's that's that I read books now to to create what's known as a second brain. So everything is I don't store that. Nothing I read is now stored. Everything goes straight out onto like a note taking system. That's like a neural network online and app. So whenever I want to write articles or write things, I've got everything written down already from these from my own mind that I took from these books. So a lot of everything I read now I don't store. It's purposely put out so that I can write things. [Speaker 3] (13:24 - 13:27) Okay. Your own database based on. [Speaker 1] (13:28 - 13:35) Yeah, yeah. It's called the Zettelkasten system. It's cool. I got that from a guy. No, no, no. [Speaker 3] (13:35 - 13:36) You go, you go. [Speaker 1] (13:36 - 14:16) I got it. I got it from a guy off YouTube. And he was like a very average guy who he wrote books on so many different topics like 30 different topics in his life. And I thought, well, in God's name, is he doing that? So I figured out that he was using this system of acquiring information, getting the information out and then tagging and tagging tagging the notes that he's making on these books to create a neural network. So whenever you put the tag in, it would spit out all the notes that you'd ever made on that tag. So then that's how he was writing all these books. So I'm going to have a bit of that. So that's why I did that. [Speaker 3] (14:16 - 14:40) It's incredible because I'm not I'm not built that way. I mean, I like to read the books, but I'm not one to I mean, I'll underline things, but I'm not going to do that. And also, you know, I think says they did that as well and use the Internet for that purpose alone. The early days of the Internet was Michael Tesarian. Like he said that he utilized the Internet just as a place to store all his notes from all of his research. [Speaker 1] (14:40 - 14:51) So I find that if you read Michael's articles now, Shockey's been brought up by the way so early. But I missed that. I said Shockey's been brought up so early. [Speaker 3] (14:51 - 14:52) Yeah, exactly. [Speaker 1] (14:52 - 15:07) If you read Michael's articles, you can see that all those are notes that he's took from a while ago that he's then put in and wrote around his notes. Yeah, that's why he can get so much content out. [Speaker 3] (15:07 - 15:17) I mean, it seems like a great system. I don't think my brain and my mind is built that way. But for people who it is and that's their way of doing things is incredible. [Speaker 1] (15:19 - 15:20) That's my nerdy side. [Speaker 3] (15:21 - 15:21) Great. [Speaker 1] (15:22 - 15:23) Yeah, absolutely. [Speaker 2] (15:25 - 15:46) All right. I want to talk about something here. All right. So you began on the Eastern side of things, perhaps more in the realm of mysticism. And obviously, you've had a bit of a transformation since then. How can I ask this question? [Speaker 3] (15:51 - 15:51) Hmm. [Speaker 2] (15:54 - 16:26) So Eastern philosophies can kind of correlate with New Age material in a little bit of the way where we kind of leave consciousness at the door. We present this idea that perhaps no mind might be the best way for man to live. What are your thoughts on that? Did you ever go through a period of such where it was almost like all I need to do is cultivate stillness in my life? And yeah. [Speaker 1] (16:29 - 19:08) Yeah, I think it's important there to understand why the Eastern philosophies go down the path of complete stillness. And the Western civilization tends to go down the path of motion, if you like stillness of motion. And I think it's important to understand that they're both actually trying to get to the same place, in my view, by utilizing different methods to get there. So the stillness principle, if you look at the work of Walter Russell, as an example, is the still point in the middle is where all creation manifestation comes from. You got the electromagnetic spectrum, and you know, the center point, the fulcrum at the top, that is the still point. If we take that as what Eastern philosophy is essentially saying, they're actually not too far away from the Western idea that motion. I mean, most people don't even think about this, do they? They just get on with their lives. So to say Western philosophy, it's actually the thinkers that think this stuff up. So the Western thinkers are more to do with the individual, the Eastern thinkers are more to do with the collective, right? I merely think it's the electromagnetic spectrum playing itself out in civilization. I don't think there is anything right or wrong. And we have to have the synthesis of the two in order to even exist. We wouldn't be able to exist. We wouldn't have that motion. We wouldn't have that vibratory happening if we didn't have them. So in terms of the Eastern philosophy, I think it plays an enormous role. Not so much in the new agey, sit and think about money type. But in the sense that we've all probably experienced it here. If you can still your mind and still your entire being, it is complete bliss. We probably all had it at some time. Then the question arises, why are we constantly seeking bliss? For what purpose is that bliss? Are we escaping reality? A bit of a Gnostic principle. And the West, I could suggest, well, you're out there. You've got no introspection and no contemplative reality whatsoever. All you're trying to do is fight with reality and control reality. And hence the destruction of the natural world is through the destruction of our inner being. I could suggest the West is a poison in that sense. But then we've created arguably the best society that exists. So I don't know the answer to the question, but I don't think you can have one without the other. Because that's just a polarised duality we live in. [Speaker 2] (19:09 - 20:14) Yeah, it reminds me of the archetypal symbol of the Lemniscate or the infinity symbol where there's motion. You come back to the still point, right? And then motion again. And it's kind of interesting how you've brought up that. You mean potentially this is just that polarity expressing itself through civilisation with the stillness and the motion. It's definitely interesting to consider. But I think the problem is actually human understanding, right? Because humans by nature, they want answers. They want one model that works for their life that they can apply and stick by. So they kind of say they're drawn to the Eastern philosophies or the New Age material. Then they think that they can apply this throughout their entire life as a consistent modality in order to live their best life. When really I think what you're hinting at, which I agree with, is that both are absolutely necessary in order to experience a life well lived for sure. [Speaker 1] (20:15 - 20:45) We need to drop belief systems. But fucking belief systems are the fucking problem. You believe you follow Eastern philosophy or you believe you're a follower of Western philosophy. You're a believer of none. You're a liver of none if you just believe in. And I think this is what people get trapped in is what's going on inside their ears. They think, oh, well, I've read the Gita or I've read the Bible or something and that's it. That's my belief and I'm fixed. You're just a repeating robot at that point. [Speaker 2] (20:46 - 20:54) Yeah. So then would that come back to individual reason as determining for each individual what is the best path? [Speaker 1] (20:56 - 21:54) Yeah. I mean, it's a Randian outlook. I'm a big, big fan of Ayn Rand. But you had Immanuel Kant who wrote the critique of pure reason, and he'd suggest that you have to, in his words, clip the wings of reason in order to experience life. From my perspective, there is a more limitless existence out there when you don't live to pure reason. I do. I'm a huge believer in reason. And the objective world has to be interacted with intensely, in my opinion, in order to find one authentic path. Yeah. But I do believe that there is, in order to experience life fully, reason has to be, what's the right word? [Speaker 2] (21:55 - 22:20) I hear what you're saying. It can definitely skew your experience of reality because, I mean, it can, I guess, on some level, limit your intake, those perception intakes of how we experience reality. But yeah, man, definitely interesting things to consider for sure. Yerasimo, do you have a take on this? [Speaker 1] (22:21 - 22:39) Reason. Sorry, bro. Reason. Where's that reason come from? Are you with me? How have we made sense of everything in order to make reason reasonable? And that's like a loop you can never fulfill. [Speaker 2] (22:41 - 23:53) Yeah. Well, I mean, from the Randian, I guess, perspective of objectivism, which was her philosophy, was that basically the foundational determinant of that is man's survival. And creating a list of rational values based first and foremost on what man needs to do to survive. And I guess from her perspective, in order to survive, we have to use reason. There's no choice in the matter, right? I guess in the beginning stages, the Easter models of stillness aren't going to work because everything else in nature, on some level, has automatic survival functions. Be it the plant automatically is receiving life force from the soil and from the sun. I mean, the animal has automatic perceptory instincts to survive. Whereas man, we're here, we have this consciousness, but we're not given these automatic life skills to survive. So this is where reason comes in the picture, in the beginning. And I guess from there, it's enhancing that reason. And as you go through life discerning what works, what doesn't work, what experience was beneficial, what experience wasn't beneficial, and honing it in from there. [Speaker 1] (23:58 - 24:01) I took it away from you, man. [Speaker 3] (24:01 - 27:08) No, you didn't. No worries. I actually appreciate this dialogue because at my foundations, I'm an integral thinker. And so I believe in the integration of opposites within one's life. And I had a teacher once. We were having a conversation about what is enlightenment. And I don't know if I mentioned this. I might even mention this in your podcast. And you said that it's about dancing between opposites. So I guess it's determining when, again, what is reason? I agree with what Joel said. And I'm a fan of Ayn Rand. And I'm looking to go even deeper into her work, who determines what's reasonable. There are a lot of people out there that might think they're using reason. But it's the exact opposite. And then there's a certain type of intelligence that may be coming from certain individuals that are based on intuition or emotion. So it's like, where is that balance? And how does each individual, again, I think on some level, well, you could say use reason. But integrate these different aspects of self. And when life and circumstances present themselves to the individual, do they have the flexibility? Do they have the ability to respond appropriately with what each situation requires? And this is why I think, like, the more expanded a person's consciousness is, the more parts of themselves they have access to that they have the ability to be more successful in life. Think of it as, like, the conductor in an orchestra. Imagine these different elements of yourself as different instruments in your own inner orchestra of life, of experience. And then you have this center point that you can choose, like, how you're being in a given situation. Now, reason comes in here because there's a certain level of knowledge and understanding and introspection and thinking. And at the same time, knowing yourself on another level, you know, maybe through points of stillness. You know, points of stillness and then tapping into certain emotions or feelings or other states that are different. I don't know if this is making sense, but I'm just trying to go with this conversation that we have is that we're asking questions. Do we have all the answers? Like, I don't want to sit here and say, I now have the answer to everything. And I think it's a little bit more fluid. And I like to think I'm a reasonable man. And I value reason and using reason. And I think something we're missing in the world today, if we look out into the world, we're looking at a society that's been highly collectivized. You know, a society that has, let's say, maybe ignored the process of using reason and critical thinking, critical analysis to come to their own conclusions. And instead has been absorbed by this thing, you know, this groupthink, this crowd mind. So, yeah, I don't know. It's interesting to talk about and think about. [Speaker 1] (27:08 - 27:27) I mean, a question I'd ask to do with reason, if you live a life purely by reason, is where does the idea of mythology and symbolism sit with that? Yeah. You know, like the Jungian idea and the hero's journey type ideas. [Speaker 2] (27:27 - 29:27) Does that come down to, you mean, individual reason and individual discernment? If those ideas have been beneficially applicable to the individual, then that affects their reason. Right. So, for example, in my life, I found profound benefit from mythology. I found profound benefit from divination, from tarot, from astrology. Would Rand be into divination? That's an interesting question there. But personally, it's a fair point. Personally, I've found a resonance in that of yielded benefit. And to me, I've changed beneficially as a result of that. So then does that become integrated into my individual reason? You know what I mean? As part of my life. And you're asking us to ask the question, what is reason? Right. And then I guess Rand would say that reason is based on morality. And according to her, she would say that morality is objective. So there is kind of a constant guide as to reason. And that objective morality to her is based on what I mentioned earlier, being man needs to survive, first and foremost. And this is where her whole concept of selfishness comes into the picture, where she would, you mean, vilify the Eastern mysticists and the supernatural for spouting the idea that the good is outside of us. That it's only good if we serve the external. It's only good if we serve someone other than ourself. Hence, leaving ourself in a state of depravity, where she would say, you know what I mean? Rational selfishness based on rational values, serving oneself, lifting oneself up, filling one's cup. Only then is that the man that can actually be of service to another person because he has validated himself, you know? So even is, my question is, is reason still what's underlying all of it? You know what I mean? Like, at the end of the day, I don't know. [Speaker 1] (29:27 - 29:40) I mean, if we suggest that survival is the, if we suggest that survival is then actually it's the fear of death that's driving everything, which is what reason must be built on. [Speaker 2] (29:41 - 29:48) But, or is it built on reality? I mean, existence is a fact, right? A equals A, the reality is that we need to survive. [Speaker 3] (29:48 - 29:51) We think so, huh? Yeah. We think so. [Speaker 1] (29:51 - 30:15) Yeah. Mate, we don't, I have no idea. And this is when you asked the question about knowledge. It's like, it's never ending, is it? So it's great. And so on mental masturbation, it's fantastic. Yeah. But reality is like, it all has to just float away, doesn't it? And then just reality is as reality is. And that's it. Everything else is a system of belief. Definitely. [Speaker 2] (30:16 - 31:36) Yeah. But what it comes back to. Iron Man would probably slap my face. What it comes back to is the question, like, you know what I mean? With existence being the state that it is, you as a human being here on earth, right? What is the most, what is the best way to move forward? And I guess that's the question that she's proliferating there. But for example, I mean, I know you're big in the wealth game as well, you know? And so, for example, the whole idea of accumulating wealth would be considered a very selfish idea to someone coming from a biblical perspective, right? But how does that, we need money. In reality, we need money. You know what I mean? But these ideas around money, these ideas around wealth is actually what's keeping the collective, in my opinion, as a collective, as a herd in a lowered state. So then does one use reason to be like, hey, I'm here as a human being. I need to be productive and I need to earn money. And if I've got guilt around earning money, how is that a beneficial way to live my life? When the fact of the matter is, that's actually the state of the majority of the collective that's bought into these ideas, I believe. [Speaker 3] (31:37 - 32:08) Real quickly, I want to add something there. Like, we need money. I agree. And then all of a sudden the thought of some badass dude who lives in the woods, who can hunt, who can build, who can do all these things and live on his own. Now, he may not have money, but then is he going to be solo, just in the woods by himself? Or if there's a community, will there be a bartering system? And then bartering, is that like money in that system? Is that considered money? Anyways, I don't know. We're just going on a lot of different tangents here. [Speaker 1] (32:10 - 33:00) So to align it with what Joel's saying there, that's probably doing what the individual wants to do to his highest values. And that would be, I'd suggest, would be a selfish move in Randian terms. For him to do that would be a selfish act because that's what he wants to do with his life. Whether he serves other people or not, it's up to him. I tend to agree with that. The Virtue of Selfishness, I think, is one of the most underrated books I think I've ever read in my life, to be honest. Yeah, that's it. So listen, I don't knock this. I think objectivism and that it holds a lot of value for people, a lot. The world could do with more of that type of philosophy, in my opinion, right now. You're right, man. You're right. [Speaker 2] (33:00 - 34:25) And it's a balance. And at the same time, you can't go to extremes. But I think simply based on the state that, not that there's a collective brain or a collective consciousness, but when you look out there to the masses, I think this is the balance that kind of needs to be filled a little bit, for sure. And to answer your question, Yerasimos, the man living in the woods, sure, he's basically a trader. He's using money. He's being productive. He's trading value, and he's trading it as in the form of money. But if he was to produce and then to say, oh, shit, I'm just going to give this all away. I feel guilty about trading this value for value. Then what kind of life is he going to live? He's going to live in a state of resentment at the end of the day. But this is the premise of collectivism. It's that they have this altruistic morality, which says that, you know what I mean? It's only good if it's for someone else. But they can't accept it or negate it. So they live in this weird limbo state of guilt where they have this morality where they know it doesn't serve them on any level. But all of a sudden, they feel guilty about rejecting it altogether. And this is why we don't have empowered individuals. Everyone's just in this limbo, this limbic state of vacillating of shit. Man, I don't know what to do. [Speaker 3] (34:28 - 34:33) Alex? When in doubt, get the JAB, because it's for the greater good. Okay? When in doubt. [Speaker 1] (34:35 - 34:36) Yeah. [Speaker 3] (34:38 - 34:43) No, this is a good conversation, a good discussion between three minds, and I appreciate it. [Speaker 1] (34:44 - 34:47) You know what? Let me just add one thing before we close up on this. [Speaker 3] (34:47 - 34:49) Of course. We can keep going. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (34:49 - 34:58) I don't know your ages, but you don't look old enough to have gone through the Ronald Reagan and Maggie Thatcher in the UK era. [Speaker 3] (34:59 - 35:05) I'm 41, so I was born in 1980. Well, yes, I was a kid during those years. [Speaker 1] (35:05 - 36:23) Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you wouldn't really know, I suppose, really know. I was born in 91, right? So I never had that experience. But it seems to me that there's been a rejection by the millennial generation of the parents that grew up, you know, they went through that era in their 20s and 30s. And the rebellion is the collectivism showing up as the swing. So you had Reagan and Thatcher who were just deregulated everything, Wall Street completely deregulated, and it's a complete free-for-all. And it looks now like just a complete rejection of that, and just an over-the-top swing the other way. And I can see in the near future, especially with the crypto markets and everything, because that evolves, probably just going to go the other way again. Is it just a pendulum that's going to keep going? And when you separate yourself off that pendulum and just live a life of, you know, having a bit of humor with it all and making fun of people, because they're lost on this, what the Buddhists would call wheel of samsara. They're just lost on it. I mean, crack on for me. I'm not here to save anyone, whatever. Yeah. [Speaker 3] (36:23 - 36:23) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (36:25 - 36:47) I think we're going back the other way. We've gone through this collective state. It's going to take a big, big shake up. If you imagine when you're cooking and you sieve away all the stuff and the water goes through. I think a lot of that's happening right now. And I'm a bit of a pessimist naturally, but I think we'll come out the other side, to be fair. [Speaker 3] (36:48 - 37:49) Well, that was a good segue because that was the question I was going to jump into before you just gave your last point here, which I appreciate. But where do you see society going? Do you think there's going to be this even deeper bifurcation where people are going to become like what I just said, like living in the woods, being traders and hunting animals and throwing some gold coins at each other that they have buried in the ground? How do you think things are going to evolve as we evolve from a technological standpoint as well? We can't sit here and say there isn't this move towards this transhumanist agenda towards uploading our consciousness into the cloud, et cetera, et cetera. And yet there are people that are like, nah, fuck that. I don't want to deal with that. I'm not living that life. So how do you see – will there be some kind of synthesis? Will the pendulum completely swing? Will there be complete chaos? From your pessimistic and maybe somewhat optimistic standpoint, what do you think is going to happen? [Speaker 1] (37:50 - 37:52) Yeah. Do you know Ray Kurzweil? [Speaker 3] (37:53 - 37:55) Yes. Singularity, dude. [Speaker 1] (37:56 - 40:04) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Basically consciousness on a computer, human consciousness just controlled by robots, basically. I think we're at a very dangerous and also very exciting time depending on which way we choose for this to go in a sense that AI now is being built on what we are doing online. So Instagram, for example, if you click on a bird with their tits out, you're going to keep seeing birds with their tits out, aren't you? We're creating these algorithms. We're creating this AI today of what it's going to be in 10 years, 20 years. Kurzweil – was it Kurzweil? Yeah. Kurzweil believed that by the year 2040, AI will be a billion times more intelligent than a human. A billion times more intelligent than a human. Now that's fucking scary, man. That's like, I think I heard some guy suggest that it was like a flight to Albert Einstein, something like that. And if that is the case, and we are building that, how, if it becomes a self-organising and sort of conscious entity, how on earth are we going to survive as a species if we create that? In the way that, I mean, if you go on a tweet now, a divisive tweet, you'll have hundreds and thousands of comments slaughtering people, calling each other all sorts of names and no rationality, nothing there. So if we're building this thing, what are these artificial intelligence? How are they going to turn out? So when you talk about the men in the woods and whatever, that could be in the woods because we've created this AI to be benevolent. And we're there fishing and enjoying ourselves because all our needs are taken care of and we don't need to really do anything other than what we want to be doing. Or the vice versa is we're trying to save ourselves from an absolute machine and monster that we've created for ourselves. I think we're going down one of those paths. If I had to put a bet on it, I'd probably say the latter. [Speaker 3] (40:06 - 41:29) Yeah. You know, I don't know if this relates, but I want to share this because I had this thought the other day when we talk about what's been happening in the world. When we think about how we're being assaulted from every single angle on a biological level, whether it's GMOs, whether it's what they put in our water, whether it's EMFs, whether it's all the different jabs, etc. That I had this thought the other night that so many people's bodies are going to get to this place where living in them is going to be such a burden to so many that they are going to beg to have their consciousness uploaded to some cloud. And that thought came to me and I was just curious what either of you have on that. Because I'm not a super technological person in terms of understanding what this looks like, what Elon Musk is creating and Neuralink and all the other stuff that's potentially out there. But if there is this thing, kind of like the matrix, where you can go, okay, I have a consciousness, I can just upload it to something and then live forever, whatever that is. I just wonder if part of the agenda, part of this is getting to this place where just being a human in a body is going to be so painful that people will want that. So I'm curious what you think on that. [Speaker 2] (41:30 - 42:31) I think that's the goal, personally. I mean, this is about disassociation, right? This is about disembodiment. And I think even just before you look at the physical aspect of it, through porn culture, through violent culture, through all these ideas that they've given us to cast shadows for ourselves. I think that's been the goal ever since then, for man to want to escape, for him to ask and beg for that on some level. So yeah, man, I believe that is definitely part of the agenda. And this is why more than ever, those Jungian aspects of shadow work and psychic hygiene are more necessary than ever. I mean, not just in order to deal with yourself and your soul, but also so you can make better decisions for yourself in regards to what could be coming around the corner. [Speaker 3] (42:34 - 42:37) Do you have anything to add to that, Alex? [Speaker 1] (42:39 - 42:44) I don't. Ask the question again. [Speaker 3] (42:44 - 43:54) Well, the question was, thinking of how things have been going for the last how many decades, as we've moved towards this place of just constantly being assaulted from every angle through our food, through our water, through getting things injected into us, through the uptake or the increase of the electromagnetic frequencies on the planet, that people are going to come to this place. And in addition to everything that Joel said, too, like how there's this push to continue to be disembodied and to escape. That as this technology evolves, where we can upload ourselves to some cloud, collective cloud, or metaverse, or whatever the case may be, that people, because living in a body is going to be so painful, or they'll be completely disconnected from what it even means to have a body, that they're going to just be on their hands and knees praying and being grateful for the opportunity to be uploaded. I could just imagine this visual of people lining up like, I'm next, I'm next, and then it's like, and the body falls, and I'm next, and then the body falls, you know what I mean? So, I don't know, just your thoughts on that. [Speaker 1] (43:55 - 44:28) I've got to be honest, if it got to that point, and the people were willingly open to doing it, I'd actually, I'd say, please go ahead, because you're not serving any purpose to the greater good of nature at this point. If you're willing to do such a thing, you've completely demoralized, degenerated everything. So, I mean, I'm not going to sit here, and it might sound a bit psychopathic, I don't know, but I generally don't really care that much about that type of person, if it got to that point, but what's the point? They've gone at that point. [Speaker 3] (44:30 - 44:34) I'm in agreement of you, you know, so it's good to know I'm a fellow psychopath in the world. [Speaker 1] (44:34 - 45:10) Well, yeah, man, I'm happy to be labelled as such. But, you know, I don't think they can upload consciousness to some computer. I don't think that's possible. I don't think you can. The divinity that's within you cannot be stripped away by a human being or a robot or something. I don't think that can happen. You might as well be dead, right? If you're not in your body, you might as well just not be in this reality yet, you know? So, I don't think it's going to happen in the first place, but if it did, please carry on. Yeah. Whatever. [Speaker 3] (45:10 - 45:46) This whole virtual reality and, like, I mean, I've never even experienced that in this metaverse thing, like, it's so trippy to me. Someone sent me something on Instagram the other day, and I don't know if it was a joke, but they, like, opened a door and they walked in on, like, it was, like, their grandma who had, like, the metaverse. It was, like, performing fellatio, you know? And it was, like, and then she, like, got caught. And then I don't know if it was me, but, like, then that just makes me think that you're going to be these people who are going to be having these, like, pseudo experiences. It's such a trip, and I'm, you know, mind blown. [Speaker 2] (45:47 - 46:54) Come on, man. The entire purpose is to negate realities, to negate existence, is for you to be fully convinced that it's too difficult to be a real human being in the real world, so you're going to beg to the AI God, you know? And, I mean, that's what this is. The whole thing is the light at the end of the tunnel probably is that VR, you know what I mean? The shining light of the freaking UV at the end of the day, man. Like, who knows all these different programs that we've taken on, you know what I mean, as a means to escape? You know, the supernatural could really be a pseudonym for the AI at the end of the day. Look into Shane's work, bro. Shane Bales is a friend of ours who's been on here, Illuminati Bloodline, and he thinks that we're in the seventh repetition of some AI cycle already. Like, there's so many different ways. So what's that? So go through that? So basically, he believes that we're already in a simulation, that we're in a repetition of a pre-recorded program just in different contexts already taking place. He thinks that we literally are plugged in already, that we are in the hubs. [Speaker 1] (46:55 - 47:05) So would the programming allow him to figure it out? I'd like to speak to him, man. You need to put us in touch. [Speaker 2] (47:05 - 47:09) Yeah, yeah. We can come back here, the four of us, and have the discussion. [Speaker 1] (47:09 - 47:10) Yeah, man, that'd be good. [Speaker 2] (47:11 - 47:13) I will put you in touch. Definitely, man. [Speaker 1] (47:13 - 47:35) To be fair, the seven cycles thing is, I think that more, from my perspective, aligns more with the Yuga cycles and everything to be honest, like Helena Blavatsky's stuff. I can see how a seven cycles would work there, but that's more of nature's way of cleansing the planet with floods and volcanoes and all this stuff. [Speaker 2] (47:35 - 48:04) Yeah, I'll give this to you. And for anyone listening, watch Requiem for a Machine by The Ruiner on YouTube. The Ruiner is Shane's channel, and the series is called Requiem for a Machine if you want your mind to be blown. And you'll probably walk away pretty apathetic about the world, but check that out. And he said he's in an Illuminati bloodline. Is that what he says? Yeah, dude. What episode is he? Episode 13. Episode 13, Review for the Truth. [Speaker 3] (48:05 - 48:58) If you want the backstory on Shane. We didn't get so deep into specifics, but in general. And again, I just want to say too, you could walk away with apathy, but to be human and going back to the opposites we talked about is to have the capacity to take in this information, but then to also hold the other side, to not let that overtake you and bring you into this dark, deep hole of depression and what's the point and nihilism. And it's just also like, fuck, that could be a thing. And I'm an individual that has reason. Exactly. Healthy emotional faculties. What will I do? What will I create? How will I be? How will I do my part in creating the world that I want for myself? And then so I can feel like I'm a good human being that's happy with his choices. And then through that process, if other people are inspired, that's a good thing. Anyways. [Speaker 1] (49:00 - 49:12) What's the point in fucking reason? If the AI gods are going to fucking kill us all anyway, there's no point. We might as well just go and live a hedonistic life. Yes. I don't know. [Speaker 3] (49:12 - 49:14) We're just having a conversation. Let's just go for it. [Speaker 2] (49:14 - 49:26) I don't know. I don't know. But then Rand would say, how the fuck are any of you idiots buying into any of that? How is that any part of existence or your reality? Use your reason to shut it down. Right? Exactly. Exactly. [Speaker 3] (49:26 - 49:51) Like I have yet to be honest, everything we just said, it's not like I have evidence that I'm in a pod, like hovering around planet earth, you know, and that, you know, like I have no evidence of that. So I'm going to just live my life, you know, as best as I can. I love these conversations. Okay. I want to pivot here. [Speaker 2] (49:51 - 49:51) Okay. [Speaker 3] (49:51 - 51:17) And Joel, if you, if you want, if you don't think we should let me know, but I want to pivot because it's, it's your, uh, an area of expertise around like wealth building and finance and crypto and stock market, whatever. I don't know exactly. Capitalism. Yeah. Capitalism. There you go. Capitalism. How do you see, like, there's been a recent crash in the crypto world. You know, how do you see that evolving? Do you think that's part of the whole matrix of control at like, people are going to like have all their money in crypto and then they're going to take out the grid and everyone's money's going to disappear. Like what, what do you think is the future from a financial standpoint and what can an individual do to position accordingly to protect themselves or to build wealth? I know it's a general question, but I think that's something. If there's, if there's one thing I'm hearing, like not even whispers, but people really talking about, and these even people who maybe aren't even going down some of these rabbit holes, they send somethings off and they're like, okay, do I buy gold? Do I buy silver? Do I get into crypto? Do I take all my money out of the stock market? Do I dig a six foot six hole in my backyard and just throw everything in there? Like, what do you think needs to be done? What do you think is going to happen? What would you recommend? And again, you know, no one's going to hold you to it if they follow your advice and they end up broken two weeks, like just, what are your thoughts? [Speaker 1] (51:21 - 56:06) Well, the, the financial world runs very, very deep in the control mechanisms and the infrastructures that we've got. A lot of people's slavery is boils down to the financial system. And that's sort of why I went into it, to be honest, I've just learned something called thinking wealth. And it's a bit of a marketing ploy in the sense that we, we bringing people in on the premise that they're going to maintain their wealth. The reality is that we're showing them what's really happening and you need to take ownership of your own shit because there's some, there's a storm brewing, but you can't sell that very much because people don't really buy that. They want to make money. So if you, we need to understand that anything with a title is a trust agreement. Banks don't lend money. They don't lend a fucking thing and they never have. We don't borrow money. There's not a person on this planet in debt. And that's what people can't grasp. They can't grasp that debt doesn't exist. This is why it's called a credit card and not a debt card. Why isn't it called a debt card? You're not in debt, you're in credit. Mortgages, the word mortgage means death grip in French. Mortier and gauge to gauge grip death grip. It's, it's a very, very deep topic. And, um, all they've got to do right now, as we sit here is raise interest rates. Just one point, just raise it by 1%. And the repossession rates across the Western world will go through the roof. People will be losing their houses. The governments won't be able to afford the debt from the central banking system. It's not really debt, but they'd call it debt. And it's a wealth grab. That's all it is. It's just human ignorance from the Paris that shouldn't be. And this is why the banks, if you, I don't know what's like in the U S, but over here in the UK, Lloyd's bank, I've got into so-called private property rentals now, and they're buying huge amounts of UK property. The banks are, um, and that's what's coming. That that's, there's a storm brewing, a huge storm. And I don't think we've seen the start of it. I'm in the crypto market as it, as a bet against financial system, not because I think it's, it's any more safe than the stock market. I don't think it's any more safe than the stock market. It's just for me and insurance hedge against the federal reserve, the central bank, the European central bank. Um, that's what it is, but essentially it stems down to trusts and equity. And if you don't, it's, I mean, you spend hours talking about it, but it's, uh, you have three sides of a trust. You have a beneficiary, a settler and a trustee, and you are the beneficiary of every single so-called loan that you take out. You go into a bank and you say, I want to borrow a hundred thousand dollars, pounds, whatever. And you go, uh, yep. You sign that piece of paper. The minute you sign that piece of paper, you are the beneficiary of that a hundred grand. Um, but what they believe, what, what they create is their misconstrue the trust agreement. So the trust is now that they are the beneficiary and you have to pay them. It's a flip the trust on it said the construit. Now you are not, you are technically the beneficiary, but the way it's structured is that you do not think you are. They've lent you money. The reality is you've created that money yourself as the beneficiary, because if you didn't sign that piece of paper, the money didn't exist. So therefore you've created it yourself. And what they then do is, uh, it's called the security trustee that goes on to the securities exchange commission, the SEC in the U S apparently the debt gets sold. It doesn't just gets assigned very different. So it gets assigned over to the SEC. Um, a security trustee has it, they receive all the repayments. So you notice you never make a payment, you always make a repayment because it's always been, it's already been paid. And then, uh, they receive all the repayments. All you're doing is repaying something that you've already created and benefited from. Um, and that's how people get trapped in 25, 30 year mortgages. And if they raise interest rates, you lose your house. So it's a tragic joke really, but we need to go back to ancient Venice. We need to go back to the Venetians in order to see how all this was set up. [Speaker 3] (56:10 - 56:14) I have to get you on in a future conversation. So we can go into all of that. [Speaker 1] (56:15 - 56:31) That's deep, man, mate. It's real deep. And this is why, you know, if I try and market that stuff, I'm either going to be killed or, uh, no one's going to sign up for anything. So I have to, I have to bring people in as I'm going to show you how to make money. And then the floodgates open. [Speaker 2] (56:32 - 56:35) So what are the practical ways today for people to manage their money? [Speaker 1] (56:38 - 58:01) Gold and silver have always been the default hedge against peaceful monetary policy, uh, gold, um, because esoterically it's the sun, right? It's the, the, the, uh, symbol of the sun. Silver is mythologically the, um, or esoterically the symbol of the moon. So that's why we've always defaulted back to gold and silver as a monetary hedge, real estate. People are always going to need places to live and you get rent rental income off them. But if you don't know what you're doing, the so-called debt will destroy you, which most people don't know what they're doing. Um, I mean, we have, we have something here called council tax and we pay water bills and electricity bills and gas bills and all these just stop paying them. Don't pay all them complete waste of money. You don't need to pay them. Um, you just need to know how to litigate properly. Um, we have something in the UK, so anyone listening there, you can do this, um, but you have to write it properly and it's not advice. I'm just telling you what I do and it's up to you. Then you, you send off a, it's called a data subject access request. And, uh, what you find out is that all these organization have been selling you data. Um, and then basically they'll fold and give you a private settlement. You don't need to pay your gas or electric or anything. [Speaker 3] (58:02 - 58:04) Is that the same in the U S too? [Speaker 1] (58:04 - 58:38) I have no idea, mate. We do. It's called GDPR over here. Um, in the UK, the 2018 act is the, uh, we, we could issue a DSAR, which is a data subject access request. Let's say you caught speeding and we have something called the DVLA, uh, the driving organization, the regulatory body, they sell your data to the police in order to have your details of the car. Um, by them doing that, you can say, well, you've sold my data without my permission. Um, that's it. [Speaker 3] (58:38 - 58:39) I'm not paying the ticket. [Speaker 1] (58:40 - 59:09) Black and white. Very easy. There's no battle. There isn't a battle. This is what people can't get their head around. Like there's some fight. There's not a fight. It's just this reality. There's no fight. Yeah. And the people don't know what they're doing. It's just, it's paperwork they've never seen before. Very rarely seen and they don't know what they're doing. They're just pen pushes sitting behind the desk, going scratching their heads. If you end up in the County court, you'll wipe the floor. [Speaker 2] (59:11 - 59:13) So you no longer pay any government issued fines. [Speaker 1] (59:15 - 59:16) Correct. [Speaker 2] (59:16 - 59:16) Nice man. [Speaker 3] (59:17 - 59:18) Or utility bills. [Speaker 1] (59:19 - 59:19) No, nothing. [Speaker 3] (59:20 - 59:21) You don't need to. [Speaker 1] (59:21 - 59:25) I don't know what it's like in the U S or Australia, to be fair. I don't know. [Speaker 3] (59:25 - 59:31) But you would think there'd be some similarity, maybe not exactly the same. There's definitely similarities between the three nations. [Speaker 1] (59:33 - 1:00:02) I mean, over here, we have a television license. You have to pay about 150 pound a year to own a fucking television. Really? What's that, man? We've got something called the BBC. It's like some propaganda machine of the government. Right. And they say we have to pay 150 pound a year to, to have a television license. And that's just the BBC. And what they've done over the last two years is nothing but brainwash the people. And we have to pay to be brainwashed. It's absolutely. [Speaker 3] (1:00:07 - 1:00:10) Here's my money. Brainwash me. Thank you. [Speaker 1] (1:00:10 - 1:00:26) Yeah. Well, you've got to be brainwashed to pay it, to be honest. Dumb as doorknobs, but you know, whatever, but that, that topic is incredibly deep and it will come out at some point, I believe in our lifetime that will come out the fraud of the, of the banking systems. [Speaker 2] (1:00:28 - 1:00:41) Yeah. I feel like people in the truth community, they're tacitly aware of it, but there's no clarity around it. There's no clarity around what's actually going on and how to actually deal with it. So yeah, man, I mean. [Speaker 1] (1:00:42 - 1:01:25) If you're on Facebook, I'd suggest joining a Facebook group called debtless D E B T dash L E double S. And that's the best group I found. He was the guy who actually opened the doors for me. So I was just, you know, you know, like one of those guys you mentioned, you know, something's going on, but you can't quite put your finger on it. And you know, but you don't know about how to do the litigation properly. He, he was the guy who taught me how to do it. And like tax, I've got to be careful what I say, because if it's public, the tax people, but you can, there's ways around paying tax. If you go offshore and everything, you can set all that open. It's easy, man. People say, you've got an obligation to pay tax. If you know what tax went to you, you'd have an obligation not to pay tax. [Speaker 2] (1:01:26 - 1:01:26) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:01:26 - 1:01:48) It's they say, Oh, we, we've got something again, called the NHS nationalised health service. It's absolutely garbage. It's useless, but they say, Oh, they use it as a political ploy. So they go, Oh, NHS is great. Our NHS, we had to clap the carers. I don't know if you guys did, they went out on a Thursday night clapping the carers. [Speaker 3] (1:01:49 - 1:02:02) Yeah. We, we, we called it like the frontline workers or something like eight o'clock at the beginning of the scam. I'm like living where we used to live, which was a little bit more around people. And we just heard it every night and I'm sitting there rolling my eyes like, Oh my Lord. [Speaker 1] (1:02:04 - 1:02:30) Yeah. It's like that, man. But when people realise that tax goes to paying the interest on the money that the government have borrowed from central banks, that's it. There's nothing else. There's no, it doesn't go to the roads to mend the roads and it doesn't go to look after the local area. None of that happens. All it does is pay the interest on government loans from central banks. That's it. So you just, you're just keeping the system ago and that's all. [Speaker 2] (1:02:33 - 1:02:44) Crazy bro. Dude. I mean, our listeners are sick of me hearing this, but I've been charged thousands of dollars during the peak of the lockdown when we had a curfew for being outside. [Speaker 1] (1:02:45 - 1:02:45) Did you pay? [Speaker 2] (1:02:46 - 1:03:07) No, I haven't paid it. I haven't paid them. I'm paying man. I'm not paying it, but I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm litigating properly against it. So I'm paying a, I'm paying a lawyer, you know, simply, simply out of integrity, but I'm sure there's the, there's, there's deeper ways to simply not pay any of that bullshit as well. You know? [Speaker 1] (1:03:07 - 1:03:49) Yeah. I mean, look on the, look on the paperwork. It'll probably, uh, it won't say the word it shouldn't, I don't know what's over there. So it's difficult for me to say, but there's very certain pieces of words that we'll use on the pieces of paper. And you'll, for example, in legalese, which is the language of law, it will say things like you must do this and it's mandated to do this. So people hear the word mandate and go, it's law. Yeah. In legalese mandate is a request upon a person. That's all it is. Yeah. So if something gets mandated, it's merely a request. Yeah. But the police walking around the streets say, Oh, it's a mandate. They don't even know that. It doesn't mean you must do this. Yeah. They're dumb as doorknobs, you know? [Speaker 3] (1:03:50 - 1:03:56) Yeah. It's like the whole mask mandates, you know, some people think like I have to put it on before I go into the store because it's a mandate. [Speaker 1] (1:03:57 - 1:04:10) Yeah. But just look at, look at it, mate. It'll probably be a notice rather than a fine on the paperwork. So it's not a fine. There's no such thing as a fine. You can't be fined by government. [Speaker 2] (1:04:11 - 1:04:11) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:04:11 - 1:04:19) It's a illusion. It's not, don't fight them. There's nothing to fight. They're serving you for fuck's sake. [Speaker 2] (1:04:19 - 1:04:43) You're not paying them. It's ridiculous, man. People, people definitely need to get their, their head around the real relationship between you and the government, you know, because that's, that's, yeah, that's, that's the real mindfuck. And people talk about sovereignty, but, you know what I mean? We're still kind of living under these, these illusionary premises is that, you know what I mean? The government is bad. Yeah. [Speaker 3] (1:04:43 - 1:05:30) There's so much, like you said earlier, Joel, there is a lot of confusion because you have different people talking about different things and throwing out terms like common law and maritime law and this and that, and, and then teaching it in different ways. And then people are like, you need to change your status. You can have two statuses and a, you know, like I have yet to go down that my wife and I haven't gone down those rabbit holes maybe potentially to our detriment at some point in the future. So it's something to think about, but I know there's this area, I think it's in Arizona. It's like no man's land. Like they are all, it's like, I forget there's a name to it, but this is sovereign. Like no cops don't go there. No one messes with it because they all know what's up. And it's this community or, or I, I don't know exactly what it is, but I've heard people talk about it. And like, I'd be so curious to even just to roll up there and be like, yo, what's up guys? How are you living? But I hear it's like no man's land anyways. [Speaker 1] (1:05:32 - 1:05:35) You'll have to let me know where that is, man. I'd like to check that out. [Speaker 3] (1:05:35 - 1:05:39) Yeah. I'll try, I'll check it out, man. I'll try to look it up and then I'll send you a link. [Speaker 1] (1:05:41 - 1:06:36) Maybe I could talk about, you could talk about the law and everything. And as you say, they're common law and all this and 99% of it is just garbage, man. And people end up in prison and I'm not paying my council tax. And because they don't know what they're doing, they end up with massive fines and then they end up paying the fines. And it's just not worth doing most of the time. But if you have the right people around you and you learn from the right people, as with anything in life, you realize that there is no, there is nothing to fear with it all. You know, it's just a matrix of paperwork and illusion. You can make a living out of it. You can make a living out of speeding, like parking on double yellow lines over here. If you get, if the DVLA will send your details off to the local councils, as soon as they do that, you can take them for 5,000 pounds out of here. So like every time they do it, you can make a fortune. Just keep parking out on purpose. [Speaker 3] (1:06:37 - 1:06:44) Damn, I need a new side hustle. You're awesomest. What do you do for a living? I park on double lines. [Speaker 1] (1:06:46 - 1:06:49) You could sell a course on that personal development course. [Speaker 3] (1:06:51 - 1:07:07) I mean, coming soon. Coming soon to hear from the truth, a eight week program. Oh, man, that's interesting stuff. I got sidetracked by the parking on double lines. Oh, well, that's great. [Speaker 2] (1:07:08 - 1:07:20) Alex, do you think that the, the war and blame on capitalism is justified by the left? [Speaker 1] (1:07:21 - 1:08:04) No, not at all. I'm very anti-left to be fair. You talked about integration earlier, you're awesomest. I have a nasty streak in me for left-wing politics. It just seems so anti-natural. I've just got an innate dislike for it. Capitalism in its pure form, if you go back to the Randian philosophy again, that's not what we've got anyway, so you can't compare what we've got here with that. We've got corporatism and lobbying to the nth degree, so that's not capitalism. So, yeah, I do think it's unjustified. [Speaker 2] (1:08:07 - 1:10:18) And this is where things link in and things come together, right? Because the left is very much based on an altruistic model again, which very much to me aligns with Eastern mysticism and Eastern philosophy on some level, which very much so aligns with communist ideologies. And there's just this thing that's taking place on some level, where it's kind of like just different branches of the same basic idea. And you said it, man, it is anti-life. It is unnatural on so many levels. It's the ideology of depravity. It's the ideology that you should starve yourself, just proliferate it under these different ideas and these different names. Not to say that the right wing is the saviour and the right path that we should all be following, but we need to wake up to what the roots of this whole left-wing political sphere actually is. And at the end of the day, it's the morality of death. It's the fact that you should starve yourself, that you should deplete yourself, that you are not worthy on any level to receive. And this even ties back into the premise of religion, that we're born sinners and that we're inherently evil and that we have to spend our entire life in atonement for this guilt, which we just somehow believe we were born with and we carry. And again, you come back to the collective, they're drowning in guilt, they're drowning in shame simply for being themselves. And they condemn anything that tells them they're worthy. They condemn anything that offers them a pathway of self-love and self-care and building oneself up. And they say, how can anyone be worthy if I'm not worthy? So it's anti-life, you're right. It's constantly starving itself in this loop that the ideology has created for itself. [Speaker 1] (1:10:20 - 1:11:23) I do, but I think we need to be careful as well of not falling too much into the negative. I don't seem, as I've said, I haven't got much faith in the left-winger politics at all, next to zero. But we've got to be careful not to just put the lens on the bad side of left-winger politics. The other side of that argument could suggest, you've got homeless people on the street and we're trying to, I don't know, bring them up to a level of... This is the argument that gets put out there, right? So the lower echelons of society can be elevated if their fundamental needs are met by handouts or however you want to label that up. I mean, if you look at the right-winger politics, it's generally speaking very individualistic and that's got good and bad sides to it, right? So yeah, I do tend to align with everything that you've said there. I just think we need to be very careful not to just tire everybody with the same brush. [Speaker 2] (1:11:23 - 1:11:37) For sure, for sure. I agree, I agree. I appreciate the balance, but let me ask you a hypothetical question. Are you really serving the homeless person by giving it to him for nothing? No, I don't think so. [Speaker 3] (1:11:37 - 1:12:00) And where is the giving coming from? Is it coming from a government that's filled with red tape and bureaucracy, et cetera, et cetera? Or is it coming from, oh, wow, Alex, Joel, and Erosimos have used their individual ability to create and build business and do something. And then we created some organization that supported improving mental health and education for it. You know what I mean? [Speaker 2] (1:12:00 - 1:12:11) No, but on a deeper level, my question is poised at, are you actually benefiting the person by giving them something that they haven't earned? Are you benefiting that human soul? [Speaker 1] (1:12:12 - 1:12:19) It's a philosophical question that you can never get to the bottom of again. If you're asking me, I'd say, no, you're not helping them. [Speaker 3] (1:12:20 - 1:12:20) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:12:21 - 1:12:23) But I don't know. I really don't fucking know, to be fair. [Speaker 3] (1:12:23 - 1:12:57) Yeah, it is hard, you know? Cause then it's like, well, what if, I mean, there's so many variables, you know, there's mental health, but then there's like, wow, if someone had a shower and their fingernails clipped and their toes clipped, like what would that, you know, what would that do? Could that change their sense of identity and their sense of self within that, then allow them to go and take in some other knowledge and go and look for some work. So I don't have, I don't know what the answers are. I agree with both of you. Like, you know, enabling usually doesn't work out in the long-term or even the short-term as a beneficial thing. [Speaker 2] (1:12:57 - 1:13:40) But the thing is, and this is where, again, I'll point a finger at the left, is that I've got no problem in helping that person if it's in your self-interest. If you have a surplus and you truly decide that, you mean, it's my selfish desire to uplift this human being. But when you're conditioned to feel guilty for having and for someone else not having and that you should deplete yourself because the morality says that you're only good if it's for someone else, if it's for anyone other than yourself, then again, I say that's anti-life. That is not life-serving. That is not life-giving. And to me, that is the basis of this altruistic ideology that has infiltrated this entire mode of thinking. [Speaker 1] (1:13:43 - 1:15:35) Yeah, I think if you look at the very basis of Eastern religions, it's probably Confucius who you'd probably have to lean to. And that's why they're all very family-orientated. And I think that's where the collectivist ideas have essentially stemmed from and just broadened out as their nation is their family. And that's why you end up with a communist party in China. And it's always sort of been that way with Chairman Mao for the last 100 years or so. When we had the so-called Enlightenment period, I think we come into our own sense of individualism there, particularly the birth of the US. I'm very fond of the US. And in my opinion, that was a human experiment by consciousness, if you like, to see if we could create a free society And I think it worked. I think it worked until it got manipulated by the Federal Reserve and things like that and the red tape, the bureaucracies you mentioned. But I think if you find the roots, if you find the human nature, what is it that's driving us to even have this conversation about the collectivist ideas and the individualistic ideas? What is it that's within us that's trying to figure this stuff out and trying to make us make sense of it all? And I think that's where the conversations need to evolve. Not this one, but across the globe. What is it that's within us that is driving us to try and figure this shit out? Because are we all doing the best we can with what we know? It's a bit of a fluffy saying. I don't know. I'm not sure. Because I look at some of the people in the world and I think, nah, you're not doing the best you can. That's bullshit, man. [Speaker 3] (1:15:36 - 1:15:54) Yeah, that's some of the four agreements where I can get behind some of the things and elements of it, but as a whole, I'm like, I don't know. Don't take anything personally. I'm going to take a lot of things personally, especially if you spit on my face or if you insult me or if you talk shit about my homies right now that I'm talking with. You know what I mean? So I can't get behind that. [Speaker 2] (1:15:55 - 1:16:18) Yeah, but again, this goes down back to judgment programming. But to judge is simply to discern. To judge is simply to use your critical faculties and say, it's pretty fucked up, man. But again, there's this underlying guilt. I shall not judge. I shall not judge. I shall not point the finger at myself. Right? But at the end of the day, that's... [Speaker 3] (1:16:18 - 1:16:21) Just love up on the rapist and the pedophile. Love is all you need. [Speaker 1] (1:16:23 - 1:16:47) Yeah. And this is where... I think they shoot themselves in the foot, man. I don't know if society has been... The purpose to use the left-wing politics in order to serve an agenda because the so-called greater good, that fits so nicely with the idea that everyone's one and we're all one family and all this shit. It's very easy to manipulate that idea. [Speaker 2] (1:16:47 - 1:17:15) But again, let's come back to it. There is no such organism. There is no living entity that's a collective. There is no living entity of oneness. At the end of the day, every time you hear the greater good or you hear oneness, it's simply you serving the agenda of the individuals who exert the most influence within the collective. There's no collective good. It doesn't exist on any level. Someone is dictating what their good is. And that's usually the most vile of the lot. [Speaker 1] (1:17:16 - 1:17:23) Yeah, well, the systems we've got reward psychopathy, doesn't it? It's at the top of politics. He rewards you to... [Speaker 3] (1:17:23 - 1:17:36) I mean, Edward Bernays even talked about it in his propaganda book. It's like, you know, there are masses and they need to be led. And there are an elite few that know where society needs to go. And that's final. You know what? [Speaker 1] (1:17:36 - 1:17:40) I don't even necessarily disagree with that. I don't disagree. [Speaker 3] (1:17:41 - 1:17:43) I was mentioning that to Joel yesterday. [Speaker 1] (1:17:43 - 1:18:50) It's like people haven't got the capacity to live their own life. I don't know. And it's difficult for a lot of people to comprehend. I mean, my fucking podcast called Project Sovereign. And it's like complete opposite to what I'm saying. But these last two years have proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt for me. People are so out of touch with nature, out of touch with their self. They have no idea about their own myth, their own personal myth, how they've got to where they've got to. They've got no idea of the future. They've got no drive, nothing, no ambition, nothing. They'd rather watch Netflix or something than read and study and do, you know, obviously every now and again. And this is why I think I'm naturally pessimistic. I think I've always had that inkling in me. And now it's just been proven to myself using my reason. It's been proven real. So, yeah, good for Edward Bernays, man. And I look at the people doing this now and I laugh. I just laugh. What's the point in getting angry at this? [Speaker 3] (1:18:51 - 1:20:32) Yeah, no, I hear you. And I agree with you too, you know. And I think even you saying like, oh, I have an organization and my brand is called Project Sovereign. And I believe these thoughts. Once again, the dualistic nature of man, the compensatory nature of the human psyche. Like it's not like just because you believe one thing, then everything else is just, you know, disappears and isn't a reality or doesn't like live in your psyche. You know, it's how do you hold space for it? Because I agree when I even said that to you on my drive back yesterday. I kind of agree with his statement. But again, then who are these people that are pulling the strings? Like the three of us at the top, you know, that are saying that. No, I'm just saying like the three of us. Let's just do a hypothetical. I'm not saying we should be at the top. I'm just saying. Of course we should, man. I'm just saying that, you know, you were saying earlier like most people. I love you laughing right now, Joel. Most people want to watch Netflix all day and watch porn all day and like not look into these books from the great masters and think and inspire introspection and be like, oh, why do I believe what I believe? Oh, wow. I believe this now. And then I picked up this book and that challenged my beliefs. Most people don't want to do that, you know? And so again, you have these masses that need to be led and guided. And then you have like groups like the CFR and the Trilateral Commission and all these other, you know, think tanks and people that are like sitting in boardrooms making decisions. And then I go, okay, well, if the three of us had a boardroom and we were making some decisions, it might look a little different than the types of people like Bernays and, you know, the other people of that ilk, you know? So anyways, interesting to discuss. [Speaker 1] (1:20:33 - 1:20:58) You know, Julius Savola? Do you know him? No. A philosopher, early 20th century, late 19th century, I think. And he was 20th century. He explained why fascism doesn't work because it's not fascist enough. So every fascist regime that's ever took place fell because it wasn't fascist enough. [Speaker 3] (1:20:59 - 1:21:02) Too much control to others? [Speaker 1] (1:21:02 - 1:21:19) Yeah. Yeah, basically. But if you look at it, it's very platonic. It's a lot to do with Plato because he believed that philosophic kings should run societies. So that isn't that much different to fascist dictators, to tyrants who believe that they are the top of society and should be running the lower classes. [Speaker 3] (1:21:20 - 1:21:21) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:21:22 - 1:21:23) I've heard worse ideas. [Speaker 3] (1:21:24 - 1:21:54) No, of course. Of course. But then again, it goes back to, like, who are these quote unquote elites, you know? And how have they used reason to come to some understanding of how the world should be or how they should live as individuals? And then should they then, like, paint all of society with the brush that is representative of their views of how they see themselves and how they see nature? Again, like, that's what's interesting. Who are these people at the top? The puppet masters, you know? [Speaker 2] (1:21:55 - 1:21:57) So what you're both saying is that people are dumb as fuck. [Speaker 3] (1:22:01 - 1:22:22) I mean, I would use different language than what you recently used on an Instagram post, but I do agree, you know? Or I also feel like they've been fed the wrong conditioning, the wrong ideologies, like these collectivistic things, the TV, I mean, that people need to pay a license for to watch, like all these things. [Speaker 2] (1:22:23 - 1:22:57) And this is where it comes in. Can you blame them or do you blame the kind of morality that they've been asked to follow? Because simply what we're witnessing. Yeah, but what we're witnessing is they've gone to a T. You mean? They're not judging. They think they're sinners. They believe that good is only external to them. They believe they're not worth anything. They believe that, you mean, they're only helping themselves when they're helping someone else. They've done what you've asked them to do. And this is the result of the kind of morality that the quote unquote powers that be have required you to follow. [Speaker 1] (1:23:01 - 1:23:19) Yeah. Look at the Roman Empire, for example. They had, what would you call them? They're Roman leaders. I think the idea of democracy might have come around in ancient Greece, but they were still dictators, man. Like, let's not wrap it up with cotton ball. [Speaker 3] (1:23:19 - 1:23:29) Yeah, it sounds like a pretty word, you know, democracy. The democratic ideas and spreading democracy. And the U.S. is democratic. And I'm like, what? What are you smoking? [Speaker 1] (1:23:32 - 1:23:44) Yeah. That's right, man. So, Joel, do you not think, do you not just agree with that, what we said? Which? About, like, I suppose people are dumb as fuck and they need to be led. [Speaker 3] (1:23:44 - 1:23:54) What he's trying to say is, do you think the three of us should be at the top of the ladder determining whether or not people get food or not? I'm just kidding. [Speaker 2] (1:23:55 - 1:24:26) I think that people should be left to their own vices. And I don't think that anyone should be given any handouts whatsoever. And I think that everyone needs to learn their lessons for themselves. And I think that by continually handing out, we're not serving anyone. We're not helping anyone. I think that each man is here to survive by his own means of reason. And if he's going to fail at that, then he's going to bear the consequences. If he succeeds at that, he's going to bear the fruit. So I think people are best off being left alone to sort that out. [Speaker 3] (1:24:26 - 1:24:37) But, again, that would, I agree. But then, again, let's say you were someone in a position of the people, the person molding the minds of the masses, that would be your guiding ideology. Do you know what I mean? [Speaker 2] (1:24:37 - 1:24:43) No, I'd be getting out of the picture. I wouldn't say no thanks. [Speaker 3] (1:24:44 - 1:24:57) Fine. Sure. No thanks. And you would be, I would say, espousing these views and these ideas and, like, educating people. Because it comes down to a certain level of education. What are people being educated on? What is the school of thinking? [Speaker 2] (1:24:58 - 1:25:09) I can offer education. But then, again, I'm not forcing it. It's up to the person to use their own reason and say, this makes a little bit of sense. I might want to be educated in this kind of way. [Speaker 3] (1:25:10 - 1:25:10) Right? [Speaker 2] (1:25:10 - 1:25:51) But then, again, that's a decision that they're making for themselves that's either beneficial or not. And at the end of the day, they're going to figure it out based on using their own reason. And the reason is going to be sharpened one way or the other as a result. But the problem here, the inherent problem that we're discussing is self-responsibility at the end of the day. You know? Can you be responsible for the consequences of your choices? Can you be responsible as an individual living on earth and I'm going to live or die based on my choices? As opposed to, I mean, here, everyone's needs are met to the most basic level. You don't need to be responsible for anything anymore. You don't need to rise. You don't need to fall. Just stay exactly where you are. [Speaker 3] (1:25:53 - 1:25:54) Hail to Emperor Joel. [Speaker 1] (1:25:56 - 1:25:57) I'd vote for you, man. [Speaker 3] (1:26:01 - 1:27:00) Listen, I mean, the reality is this. If we're having this conversation, it's pretty nuanced. We're grappling with great ideas. On one level, if it was so simple, too, that on some level, I feel like it would be done. But you're dealing with human beings. You're dealing with different levels of consciousness, different levels of karma, history of genes. All of it. You're born in a different area. Someone born in the U.K. in a middle class, upper middle class, or the U.S. Versus someone born in a less developed nation with no running water. Should there be people out there like a Bill Gates instead of just giving all the wealth to create more medicines? How about if we built some clean water? How about if we had sanitation and all that that built foundations of health for people to then... You know what I mean? [Speaker 2] (1:27:00 - 1:27:11) I say the issue still is the state's input. If you separate the state from the economics, if you separate the state from the individual, if you separate the bureaucracy and the regulation, who knows what's possible in these countries, in these nations? [Speaker 3] (1:27:13 - 1:27:15) I hear you. I hear you. [Speaker 1] (1:27:16 - 1:27:27) There's certainly an argument, 100%, there's an argument for that, mate. I don't think it's ever been tried, really, other than the U.S., between the founding and maybe early 1800s. And I think that's about it, really. [Speaker 2] (1:27:28 - 1:27:43) Yeah, I don't think there's ever been a real true free market. But yeah, you're right. Perhaps that's the only period that it might have been tampered with. But other than that, we've never had a fully unregulated separation of state and economics in society. [Speaker 3] (1:27:44 - 1:27:53) Yeah, it's interesting. And then you're dealing with psychopaths too, and then how is a psychopath going to further their self-interest and what are they going to do? You're just dealing with so many different kinds of people. [Speaker 1] (1:27:54 - 1:28:07) I suppose the argument to that is if the service or product that he's offering, the free market would determine it to be he's an asshole. They're not going to buy the product unless he goes out of business. [Speaker 3] (1:28:07 - 1:28:07) Exactly. [Speaker 2] (1:28:08 - 1:28:38) And the other thing that you're relying upon is other people to use rationality and other people to use reason. You're still dependent on everyone having an idea of reason, you know? Then again, the unreasonable person, they're just going to be cast to the side by the reasonable people, I guess. But man, I've loved this conversation, that's for sure. Good man. That's been two hours, isn't it? Oh, hour and a half. [Speaker 3] (1:28:38 - 1:28:39) Hour and a half, 90 minutes. [Speaker 2] (1:28:39 - 1:28:41) Hour and a half, yeah. Hour and a half, man. Yeah. [Speaker 3] (1:28:42 - 1:29:24) Yeah, we usually go around 90 minutes. I know we can keep going and talking about a lot of different things, and I'm sure with the things we've exposed ourselves to, we can go on tangent after tangent after tangent. But first of all, brother, just appreciate you, appreciate your mind, appreciate the work that you've done to evolve into who you are, to have these kinds of ideas, to grapple with them within yourself, to continue living life according to how you believe you should. And I appreciate you, man. I'm so happy we connected. On that note, you're obviously up to a lot of interesting things with your brand, Project Sovereign. So anything you want to share to the people that are listening, how they can find you, how they can get your support, your wisdom, your knowledge, etc., please do share. [Speaker 1] (1:29:26 - 1:30:25) Yeah, thanks, and likewise, thank you for having me on. AlexHickman.co.uk, just go on there, everything's on that website. I just launched Thinking Wealth, as we spoke about in there. Go through the link, you get a two-week free trial on that. So if you don't like it, just cancel the subscription, no problem. We teach people how to invest in real estate, precious metals, and cryptocurrency, increase your financial IQ, and a lot of mindset stuff like just deconditioning, basically, getting out your own way, particularly in the context of money and finances and everything. So that's Thinking Wealth. You can get on that through AlexHickman.co.uk. Loads of writing and ideas that I share on there, podcasts, YouTube, all that other good stuff, free downloads, how to escape wage slavery. I did that a couple of years ago now. Yeah, man, that's great. Thanks for having me on again. I appreciate it. [Speaker 3] (1:30:25 - 1:30:28) Yeah, definitely looking forward to future conversations, for sure, man. [Speaker 2] (1:30:29 - 1:30:35) Yeah, Alex, love everything you're about, bro. So good to be connected. Guys, thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time. Take care.