Kyle Dake The Drive for Success and Freedom

[Speaker 4] (0:00 - 0:07) You are now listening to the Here for the Truth podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Yerasimos. [Speaker 3] (0:11 - 1:14) Old and new listeners, welcome back to Here for the Truth. I'm Joel Rafiti. As always, I've got my co-host, Yerasimos. This is episode 64, and we have an absolutely incredible guest for you today, Carl Dake. And what a conversation. This was such a dynamic guy who's accomplished so much and still represents the truth and the freedom that I know all you guys are here listening to this for. So make sure to listen through to the end of this one. First things first, as always, hereforthetruth.com. All our episodes are available there. There's an incredible resource library there now for you to check out and a back catalog available to you. If you want to stay in touch for uncensored content, the best place is to find us on Telegram. The links will be in the show notes, but it's at areyouhereforthetruth.com. And our ebook, 55 Signs of Low Self-Esteem for Truth Seekers. We'll also put the link to that one in the show notes, or you can head to growyourselfesteem.com to grab that one. Without further ado, we'll bring on Carl now. [Speaker 2] (1:15 - 2:26) What's up, everybody? We got a really special guest for you today, someone I have the utmost respect for, Carl Dake. I'm going to read a little bit about him first, and then we're going to get into a good dialogue. So Carl Dake is a father, husband, and Olympian. He was a bronze medalist at the Olympics in Tokyo and is a three-time world champion for the USA. He's also a four-time NCAA champion representing Cornell University and is the only wrestler ever in history to win all four championships at four different weight classes. He's also the co-founder of Athletes for Medical Freedom, an organization that stands for personalized medical treatment, bodily autonomy, and informed consent, and stands against medical mandates, segregation, and discrimination. Carl, welcome to Here for the Truth. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Yeah, man. So I guess we just want to start off a little bit. You're someone who has risen to the top of your field, your profession, and would love to just get a little bit to learn a little bit about your personal hero's journey and major rites of passage that have led you to who you are and what you stand for. [Speaker 1] (2:28 - 10:01) Yeah. So I started wrestling when I was a little kid. It was more of a family affair. My dad was an All-American for Kent State University, and my grandfather, he was a coach, colleges, high school level, middle school level, youth level. And they always brought me to the wrestling room. So I was always in a wrestling room, always running around. And it's funny you talk about rites of passage. There's a lot of different things that I consider a rite of passage. One of the things was my grandfather allowing me to use a knife to cut the oranges for the older kids. So one of the things that he always did for him, he coached the middle school team, and I was the manager for him. And a lot of the times he would go cut the oranges and then bring them out to everybody. And it wasn't until a few weeks in that he was like, all right, you've been good at practice, you've been doing the right things, do you want to cut these oranges for us? And it was like, for me, it was a big deal because the kid that was older than me, so I was in, so you had to be in seventh or eighth grade in order to be on the modified team. So there was a sixth grader, and I was a fifth grader at the time that were managers. The sixth grader always did the cut. I was still wrestling, but he always did the cutting. And it wasn't until a few weeks in that I was given the responsibility to start cutting oranges. So that was one of my first rites of passage. And then once I got into higher level wrestling, some of the rites of passage are, one, being able to take your dad down. So that was a big one for me. It wasn't until probably, I don't think it happened legitimately until I was in college. I think my dad would kind of let me get a couple points here and there, but if you really had to, he would have stopped me. But it wasn't until a family reunion, we were wrestling in a field, and I took him down. And then I gut wrenched him. I don't know if you know what I mean. It's basically, I just locked my hands around his ribcage and then just try to roll him over. And a freestyle has two points. So I did that to him, and I actually popped one of his ribs out. So I took him down and ended that. It was like having this weird thing. And after that, my dad and I had a way different relationship. And it wasn't for anything other than it was just a little bit of a rite of passage. And there's little things that happen through college. There's some really brutal workouts that we do. Basically, one of the workouts is, and this is probably, the other two are more like familial rites of passage. This was like a wrestling rite of passage was you had 10 minutes on the clock. So again, different style of wrestling. But my goal was to hold the other person down for 10 minutes. Every time that person got out, the clock would stop. I would have to go do a 40-foot rope climb. And the guy I was wrestling just graduated college. He was a three-time, four-time All-American national champion, and he was two weight classes bigger than me. So I was trying to hold this guy down. And one of his best positions, he was really explosive, was Bach. So he would get out almost instantly. And I think I did five or six rope climbs within the first 20 seconds. So it was like 9.40 on the clock, and I already done six rope climbs. And I'm like, there's no way I'm going to get through this. There's no way. It ended up taking us, I think it was like 83 minutes was how long it ended up taking me. And basically, my hands were completely raw, I couldn't do anything. But it wasn't until the last minute that I was able to ride him for a long time. Now, he probably was a little tired too, but it took so long, so long. And ever since then, I'm like, there's nothing that could possibly happen to me that is harder than that day right there. Not one thing. And yeah, that was intense. But that was the arc of my young career. And I was young, dumb, didn't really know what I was doing. I didn't want to listen to anybody, because I was winning. So whatever I was doing was working, and I was winning. And I was eating like crap. I was eating cookies and chips and Subway and all sorts of just garbage. I was drinking Diet Mountain Dew all the time. And I don't know that I drank more than 60 ounces of water in a day. Everything else came from just sugary drinks. And it wasn't until after I graduated college. I got through college pretty much unscathed. I had some injuries, minor, minor stuff. But after college, I got a foot injury, then surgery, then another surgery, then another surgery. And then I got this surgery, my shoulder completely reconstructed. And I was at a loss. I couldn't compete. I wasn't getting the results I wanted to. And I kind of was just like, man, what do I do? What do I have to do? And I decided to go work with this guy out of Seattle. His name is Natty Aguilar. He runs a company called Functional Patterns. And just get advice from him. And along the same time, I had started going down the holistic route of health and wellness and trying to look at the body as a full spectrum, cohesive unit and learning about what certain foods do for you, your circadian rhythm, what sun does for your grounding, drinking the right types of water, timing the way you eat, what you're drinking, all sorts of different things. I also got a bunch of tests done to figure out what was going on with my body. I was basically a hot mess. And I started figuring all this stuff out slowly. And Functional Patterns was really a way for me to keep myself in check. So I had all these people around me who were holding me accountable to do these types of things. Make sure I wasn't staying up late and on my phone all the time. Make sure I was sober. I wasn't going out and partying. Making sure that I was eating the right types of foods and fueling for performance. And so that was really, really beneficial. And so I got a good regimen of taking care of myself. I was pretty broken. I had a lot of things I needed to fix. And credit to those guys. They helped me at Sun get my body back to where I could be successful and taking me beyond what I had been in the past. Because I couldn't go back to what I was already doing. If you look at how I wrestled prior to 2017, 2018 really, you'll see that I was just a much different person. And now the way I live my life, the way I trade, the way I hold myself, the way I raise my family, all of those things are starting to come together. And I feel healthier than I've ever been. [Speaker 2] (10:02 - 10:47) That's awesome. And I want to actually rewind a second too, because I remember when I wrestled in high school, I had to cut so much weight. I was dropping from 121 to 103. My senior year, I dropped from 142 to 119. And in high school, at least, because right now I'm in the health world, everything that you're talking about came after. And I remember after weigh-ins, I grew up in the diner business. My dad had a New Jersey style diner he owned. And so I'd be eating the most unhealthy things after weigh-ins. And I'm curious of this knowledge that, because you're obviously around wrestling, you've been around wrestling your whole life. Do you know if it's trickled down into high school? Are more people more aware? Are people eating healthier after weigh-ins? Is there still ignorance there? I'm curious if you can talk about that. [Speaker 1] (10:47 - 13:56) It's starting. I wouldn't say that it's complete. There's still a lot of kids who just don't understand. One thing that's been really beneficial is social media. These kids get to see what I'm eating, what David Taylor's eating, what Kyle Slater's eating, what Jordan Burroughs is eating, what all these guys, Thomas Gilman's eating. And they're like, what are they doing that's them so successful? And why are their careers so long? Same thing, Tom Brady, LeBron James, you got all these guys who are doing some incredible things and understanding like, hey, this is important stuff. And you need to take this seriously if you want to be successful. And I get DMs all the time. People ask me questions like, hey, what would you do here, here, here, here, here? And fortunately, I've come out with a lot of content to say, hey, this is what I've done. This is what I'm doing. I have a huge documentary coming out. I don't know if it's going to come out now or within the next year or if he's going to try to follow me through 2024 because I made a commitment to continue wrestling. But again, that's my life journey. That's like what you're talking about. They have everything from my senior in college to where I am today, which is really, really cool. We have like 35 terabytes of footage, which is just absurd. And he's kind of going through it and dealing with all that. But yeah, my boy Greg Assetta, he's the one who's been directing the film and taking care of things. So he's been doing a great job. But it's stuff like that, that content that's been coming out that people are like, okay, I need to look into this. And then you just pointed to certain people like I'm not an expert in any of this stuff. I have a really wide breadth of knowledge of what needs to be healthy. And I'm pretty good at knowing what it's going to take to be healthy. But if someone's looking for the nitty gritty or looking for some more things, I can push them in the right direction and say, hey, here's where I would look. This is what I would do. Depending on how deep you want to go, this is one person. If you want to go deeper, here's another 10. And it's just kind of cool to be able to push people in the right direction because more and more people are admitting. People are getting further away from just going to the doctor and having them run their prescription pad and say, here you go. There's still a lot of people that are doing it, but a lot more people are taking health in their own hands. And there's a community. I mean, you're a part of it. This community is growing to take responsibility for yourself. And that is something that I feel is hugely important, one, for just humans in general, but two, for athletes. And I do see that trickle-down effect. I do see it within the Cornell wrestling community. I do see it within USA Wrestling. There's some young guys who had a ton of success, and then they see what I do and see what the guys who have been around the game for a long time, who are winning world titles, who are winning medals, what they're doing. They're like, oh, maybe I need to make a change. Maybe I need to do something different. I'm proud to be a part of that. And it's really cool to see at the same time. [Speaker 3] (13:58 - 14:06) Kyle, what drives you? And has your motivation shifted from your college, high school days to now? [Speaker 1] (14:08 - 17:03) Yeah, I would say there's been a fairly big change. Before, I was like, I want to be the best. All I want to do is win. I don't want to lose. I don't want to embarrass myself. And that was what I spent a lot of time worrying about. It's like embarrassing myself and losing. And I wrestled really tight. And I wouldn't give up hardly any points, but I wouldn't score that much. And since getting past that mentality, it's like, I want to be better than I was before. I want to be a better version of myself. And that sounds really cliche. But just how much do you truly believe that? How much are you actually focused on being better every single day? For me, every decision I make, I've been talking about this for a while. I've refined it a lot. Even since college, I've always had what I call a priority filter. So whatever my priority is, I want to be a national champion. Okay, there's a decision coming at me. Do I want to stay up until 2am playing video games or do I want to try to go to sleep because I have a 9am workout that I have to beat to? Well, I'm going to go to sleep. That was a priority for me because I knew I want to be ready to go for practice. And those are easy decisions to make. Now we look at, for me, I'm looking at even more refined. Like, okay, am I going to eat at this time or this time? Am I going to fast today? Am I going to do a 24-hour fast or 48-hour fast? How am I going to fuel my performance? Am I going to eat more sweet potatoes today or am I going to back off and go a little bit more carnivore-ish? What am I going to do with that? Am I going to get outside? It's raining outside. It's super overcast. Am I still going to get out there and put my feet on the ground? Or am I just going to lay in my bed with a grounding pad? What am I going to do? And a lot of those decisions that I make, again, I'm just like, okay, what's going to give me the best chance of being better than I was yesterday? What's going to give me the best chance to go be a world champion, to repeat as that, to go be an Olympic champion? And one thing that I've really noticed is that I'm not really satisfied. I live my life one year at a time. And I'm like, okay, I want to be a world champion. I want to be an Olympic champion. And I go do it. Then that next year just restarts. I'm back to square one. Okay, what am I going to do? This is where I messed up. This is where I need to get better. I know that these guys are going to be better next time out on the mat. How do I make sure that I create more distance between myself and them? And that's just kind of the mindset that I'm always in. And it's more of a lifestyle than it is just like a conscious thing. So I have it in my subconscious that I want to be the best I can possibly be. And I'm going to make the decision to be the best every single time I'm presented with something. [Speaker 2] (17:04 - 17:15) Yeah, where do you think it comes from? Do you think like, obviously, there's something inherent in you, or the way you were raised, like being pushed by a grandfather, father, like, you know, your family, like, where do you think that seed was planted? [Speaker 1] (17:16 - 19:11) I think it's pretty complex. My mom was a huge motivator in me, like staying focused on my goals, being positive about every outcome. So you know, there's an outcome. I didn't, I didn't achieve my goal. But there's something to learn from it. You know, I didn't, I never, I lost, but I didn't really lose. I, you know, I learned. And she planted that seed and constantly doing it, doing it, doing it. And, you know, I would take it bits and pieces, but I was never, and it's always a refining process. So I had it, but I didn't apply it as much as I possibly could. So there were some times where I did apply it. I'm like, oh, man, I'll snatch or I didn't, I didn't perform the way I wanted to. You know, I would, I would leave losses, like pretty disappointed, but there were some wins where I left even more disappointed in my performance. And, and that all stemmed from kind of where my mom and my dad, how they raised me to think about being successful, whether it be in the classroom, whether it be on the wrestling mat or whatever, in a relationship and friendship. So I think that it was, it's a, it's a complex thing. There's something inherent in myself. It was some nurture from my parents. And then it was some trial and error by me later on in life. Like, okay, how am I getting better? How is it like, is this serving me? There's times where I threw it away. You know, there, there's times where I tested and I was like, nope, I'm not, I'm done with this. I'm not going to go full with this anymore. I'm just going to do it this way. And I felt that it was failing. So I went back and, you know, now I'm doing it again. And it's just like this trial and error process that is, that is constant, you know, day after day. And, you know, for the uninitiated, for people who don't have that, you know, whatever that is, that innate thing, that nurtured thing, it looks like a daunting task. But for me, I feel like it's just a part of my life. [Speaker 3] (19:13 - 19:18) Is there, is there joy in that for you? Tons. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (19:18 - 21:30) Tons. Yeah. Like I, you know, I go to the wrestling room, and we could be teaching the younger, you know, the freshmen who are coming in, and we're teaching them this, the most basic technique that I've learned 1000 times, because, you know, I've taught, one, I've taught the kids that, that I volunteer at a, at our, my local high school where I went, and we have a youth program, my dad, my brother, and I started. And, you know, we work with those kids. So I've gone through it every step, you know, every year, it's the same thing. And then the freshmen come in, I teach them, then we have a clinic, and then I go around the country doing clinics. And then we go to camp, and we learn very similar things. Because, you know, what worked then is still going to work now, for the most part. But there's little tiny things all the time that I pick up, it's like, oh, this is the small adjustment that I need to make, where, you know, if I'm teaching a three year old, or, you know, a 10 year old, I'm going to show them four steps, when I'm really doing it, it's more like 40 steps. And I'm trying to refine each one of those steps. So that one, it's smoother, it's more efficient, I can create more leverage, more power. And those are the things that I'm trying to refine every single day. So like, I go in the wrestling room, and I'm just trying to figure things out. You know, I'm like, okay, this is what I feel like I've done well. And how can I refine that to make it better? This is where I've done really poorly. How can I refine that and make it a strength? And I feel like those things happen to me all the time. And I don't feel I feel like if I was static, that I wouldn't have the success I have, but I would also be burnt out, I'd be done wrestling, I wouldn't, I wouldn't continue doing it. Because like you said, you have to have joy in what you're doing. You know, like, you talk about joy. And I'm like, I get excited to go into the wrestling room, I get excited to go experiment, try new things and, and try old things. You know, I have, I mean, I don't know, I couldn't put a number on how many things that I have in my back pocket that I might try, you know, next month, a year from now, whatever. And it's just a refining process. How can I continue to refine? How can I continue to adapt and evolve as a, as a man and as a wrestler? [Speaker 2] (21:30 - 22:39) Yeah, I think, I think when it comes to sports, too, like you see that because there are people who like get into the professional level, and you think they're gonna, they're gonna get to a certain place and, and then they don't. And yet there's others who, you know, you don't have the high expectations, and they make it there. And I think having the love for the game having the even you talk about Tom Brady, you know, like to keep doing what he's doing, at the age that he's doing it, like, you have to love that you have to be fired up, you have to love the process, the journey, you can't just be like, I'm just doing this for a job, and I'm gonna go win an eight Super Bowl. You know what I mean? Like, there has to be that joy in that drive. And, and so it's cool. It's cool to hear that from you, the hunger, but the love of wrestling, you know, and there's something, there's just something also so different about one on one sports. I mean, obviously, wrestling is a team sport, you know, in terms of points and everything, but like, end of the day, it's just you and another person. And there's something so primal about that versus a team sport. So I wonder if maybe you can talk about that kind of duality between team sport and just just, it's all on you, you know, because it does go hand in hand with something that Joel and I talked a lot about, and you just mentioned, like personal responsibility. It's, it's, it's all on you. [Speaker 1] (22:40 - 27:15) Yeah, that was one of the things that really pushed me away from other sports. I was a, I was a pretty good football player. I was small, but I, you know, I, I had a really good nose for the ball, you know, I could anticipate, and I just knew, you know, where to hit gaps and all sorts of things. I was a really good baseball player. I was small, but, you know, I, I could feel, I could anticipate where the ball was going. I could, you know, anticipate where the guy was going to hit it. I'm just, I had this really innate sense of, of what to do out there. And, but I was also really good at wrestling. I was small, but I was wrestling other small guys. And I would put in a ton of effort. I was always really effort granted. And I wanted to, you know, I wanted to try my best to do my best every single time I was out there. And when I was on these, you know, I was, you know, I was on a small school, I graduated less than a hundred kids and our teams were really small. And it's not like we had, you know, these amazing teams. We had really good teams, but I had some guys that I was like, man, you're not trying at all. And you're costing us like your lack of effort to go try to catch that foul ball or to make that block or to go get that tackle is costing us the game. And you guys are quitting on me right now. We can't quit. We got to keep going. And it was really, really, really hard for me to deal with that. Like I couldn't deal with it. I had to, I stopped playing, you know, I stopped playing baseball. I stopped playing football and I went all the wrestling because when I was out there wrestling, it was one-on-one. Everything was my fault, positive or negative. It was my fault. It was my responsibility. I could go out and determine what was going to happen. You know, I could make, I knew that if I was having, you know, if I went out and I didn't perform well, well, I had to go back to the last week, the last month and see where are the mistakes that I, you know, what are the shortcomings, what are the mistakes I made and make an adjustment for that next time. And that's the fact that it was all on me was very, very, very enticing because of the amount of effort I was willing to put in. And there's some people, there's some people that don't want to put in that effort. They don't want to, they want to lean on their teammate because they know that their teammate can take some of that responsibility. And there's, you know, there, I love team sports. You know, if I, honestly, if I was, if I was bigger, if I was the size I am now, when I was a sophomore in high school and I went to a bigger high school, like right down the road, I probably would have tried to play football in college. Probably. I just loved it. I mean, I had such a good time with it. I was probably better at baseball. But, you know, someday, something clicked in me and I was like, I can't do this. I'm sorry. I kind of like snapped and I was like, coach, you know, I know you want me to come play. I just can't. I'm going to wrestle. I want to wrestle more. And my parents were cool with it. So it, like you said, one-on-one personal responsibility is huge. You know, you go out there, I mean, wrestling is not funny. You go out there, you're in this skin-tight singlet and it's you versus another guy. And this other guy is trying to rip your head off. You're trying to rip his head off and you're just going at it. And it's like, wow, this is kind of, I mean, this is like gladiator stuff right here. Like, that's, that's raw. That's, you got to be self-confident enough to go out there and do it. Like that, you know, boxing's another one, MMA, like all that stuff is, there's something different about these types of people. You know, there's something different. You're willing to go put your, you know, your skin's in the game now, you know, you'll be putting it all on the line. And I don't, I don't know what the difference is. You know, I haven't taught, I mean, I studied like Kobe Bryant a little bit and his mentality and like what he, how he thinks. And he thinks a lot like I do, like in terms of kind of taking responsibility for everything, but he takes responsibility for his whole team. And he does, I mean, he has more, he has different types of, or he had different types of frustrations than I do. You know, whether it be my training partner is not doing what it's supposed to be, but he's got seven other teammates that are supposed to be doing a job and if they're not doing it, then he's got to have a 60 point game. And even sometimes when he does, he doesn't, you know, it didn't work out for him. So it's, it's a really cool concept to think about. And I'm sure there's something deeper there that some psychologists could figure out, but yeah, for me, I was just wanting to go out there and take care of business. [Speaker 3] (27:16 - 27:41) Like, yeah. Yeah. Like Kobe went to extremes to try to hold his teammates accountable in training and stuff like that. Like how ruthless he was in speaking to them and driving them. I can imagine the deep frustration, like coming with that mindset and the fact that at the end of the day, you can't actually be responsible for how accountable someone else wants to hold themselves. You know what I mean? And, and be valid and share those same goals and be driven about in the same way you are. I can certainly see where the frustration will come from for sure. [Speaker 2] (27:42 - 27:58) I mean, shit, I didn't, I didn't play sports at a super high level, but when I used to play hoops at the local Y man, you know, I'm competitive. And so if people weren't being up, people weren't boxing out, people weren't playing the way they needed to, like, you know, I was thrown down. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (27:59 - 28:39) Yeah. I mean, there's, there's an accountability factor that, you know, some people have it, some people don't, but then that doesn't always match up with talent. Like we, I had a lot of people that I thought were super talented and I felt like they were just wasting away because they didn't hold themselves accountable. Now, whether that's outside factors, stress you know, parenting, you know, life gets in the way and sometimes it happens, but you know, that's something that really, really bothered me. And I couldn't, I mean, I couldn't get over it. You know, maybe that's a character flaw for me, but you know, maybe, maybe that's something I need to work out, but we'll see. [Speaker 2] (28:40 - 28:52) You know, I had an old acting teacher back in the days. He had a quote common as is no talent is as common as horseshit and stable. The cultivation of it is extremely rare. And I think, I think it's true. You know, that's a good one. [Speaker 3] (28:55 - 29:56) Yeah, man. I mean, you're asking us and I are big advocates and students of, of self-esteem and how one can facilitate self-esteem and grow self-esteem. And at the core of it, at the crux of it, man, every single human being I believe needs a productive challenge, you know, because ultimately self-esteem is, is, is the feeling of competence within yourself to, to deal with a challenge and to come up against the challenge and be successful at the challenge. And I think there's just so many people out there that they're lacking true, a true container to really challenge themselves at and use that as a microcosm of life to exert their will against and figure out how they can be better than they were. You know, I just think it's so important for every single person. I've never been really deep into sports or highly competitive in that way, but the older I get, the more I'm finding different ways to be able to funnel that, even whether it's through this podcast or business or coaching or whatever it might be, I'm really beginning to see the importance of that in a deeper way. [Speaker 1] (29:57 - 32:21) I think some guys, you know, some people in general, you know, they refuse to break promises that they made for themselves. You know, they refuse to quit on themselves. They refuse to do that. And that's like having self-respect, you know, because if you quit on yourself, that's a sign of disrespect in my opinion. You know, if now, if you're injured or, you know, whatever, if there's extenuating circumstances, like, yeah, I get it. But, you know, if you, one of the things that I was taught when I was growing up is if you can make a commitment to doing something, you finish it. And that's the way it is. Like you can't quit because you made this commitment to yourself. You made this commitment to your teammates, your coaches, you got to go do it. And that's something that I feel like needs to be cultivated and harvest and bottled up. And if you can sell that, like, geez, man, you're going to, you're going to make this world a lot better place because they're going to be able to go out and really succeed, because they're going to find something, you know, and a lot of times what will happen is you'll get people who, kids mostly, who are in a sport because their mom and dad want them to be there. You know, they don't want to be there, but they want to please their mom and dad. And maybe, you know, like, mom, I don't want to do this. I want to go play the violin. I want to go, you know, be an Eagle Scout. I want to go, you know, whatever. I want to go play Fortnite, which is hard, but you know, those are things that these kids want to do now. When I was a kid, I just wanted to be a great athlete, you know, and some of my friends were like, ah, that's cool. But you know, I would rather, you know, go be a doctor. I'd rather go, you know, make a bunch of money. I'd rather go do this or that or this. And if we can just channel everyone's like, inner purpose towards something and be like, hey, you're going to go attack this. Now you can, you know, if you want to change your mind, fine, but don't quit and hold yourself accountable and have some self-respect. And that will build your self-esteem so that you can go and be successful. And there's a, there's a fine line between, you know, tasting that success and failing a lot. I fail a ton, but I've had a ton of success. So like balancing those out is something that isn't always easy. And a lot of times people will remember the failures more than they remember the successes and you know, they won't stop and sell the roses and they'll just, they'll be done. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (32:21 - 32:26) The failures are the springboard to success. 100% man. Definitely. [Speaker 3] (32:27 - 32:53) I think also like you have to see the value in self-respect to be able to push through and persevere, you know, and you're only going to see the value of it. If you actually give yourself a challenge, make a commitment and you follow through then that inherent feeling, you know, I mean, of accomplishment of worthiness, you've gotten more of that. How can I increase on that? How can I build on that now? You know, and then you really begin to see the value in fulfilling something, I think. [Speaker 2] (32:54 - 33:25) Yeah. And I think also too, you know you said before about like people dialing in on what they're into, like really knowing your values, you know, there has to be some sort of introspective process for each individual to be like, well, you know, who am I, what am I here to do? What do I enjoy doing? What lights me up? And go after that. And you know, you have to embrace your individuality and tune out the noise from, you know, other people that are trying to maybe get you to do and say things in a way that go against, you know, your personal integrity. For sure. Totally. Yeah. [Speaker 3] (33:26 - 33:59) But the other thing like I want to comment just on that is that some people can waste their whole lives waiting, waiting to discover their passion. What excites me? I mean, just sitting there waiting for that one thing that really excites me and I can funnel my energy towards. But if you just pick something and aim at something, you're going to figure it out along the way because you're going to put yourself in a position to undergo that transformation and exert effort and act. You're going to work out what you like, what you're good at, what you mean, what lights you up. But so many people I find just sitting there, sitting on their hands, waiting for that one shining light. Oh, this is the thing. This is what I'm meant to do. You know, and I just don't think that's serving anyone. [Speaker 1] (34:01 - 36:11) Yeah, I think action is required. You know, you need to, you need to have action and go execute something and try to learn along the way. You know, don't just go through the motions. Try to deeply understand what you're trying to do and learn about yourself. Like you may, you failed at this project. Well, what did I learn about myself? Did I learn that, you know, I was procrastinating and I, you know, I gave myself this much time to do it and I waited to the end. My product was pretty crappy or, you know, I really focused the whole time. And even though I put forth my entire effort, I just failed. Well, okay, let me see if I can make adjustments and do better the next time. And if I do, then great. And if I don't, then maybe this isn't the field for me. And I feel like that learning process and being honest with yourself while you're going through something, you know, having that actionable plan of doing something, don't sit on your butt and think that something's just going to fall out of the sky and hit your head. You got to actually go do something, go test things, go try things out. And if you do that, then I think you're totally right. You're going to find what you truly care about and what you want to do. And that is a process. It is not just going to happen. You have to go through that process if you want to get to where you want to, like, if you want to get to your purpose. The purpose is, you know, rarely is a goal your, you know, your purpose. Like I wouldn't, I won a world title and I was like, like most people are like, oh, you're done. You know, I accomplished what I want to accomplish. I'm finished. And I was like, no, I want more. You know, I want to do something. I feel like I can get more. I feel like I can do better. I feel like I can do more than I've already done. And I like doing it. So I'm going to keep going. And those are things that, you know, I mean, if you give a, if you take all the money away from any of our billionaires, you know, they're going to be like, and given starting at zero, they're going to go make another billion dollars because they just know how to, like, they know the process. They're going to keep going. If they have all that knowledge, you're just going to go, go, go, go, go. And they're going to figure something else out. And, and it's because they're willing to go through the process, then go through the pain of that, go through all of those things and act rather than just sitting back and waiting. [Speaker 3] (36:13 - 36:23) Yeah, we're so sad, brother. Let's, let's shift this. I want to talk about athletes for medical freedom. Can you give us the backstory on that the origins and how that all came about? [Speaker 1] (36:24 - 47:05) Yeah, so we, you know, we, my teammates and I that were getting ready to go to the Olympic games. So, I mean, we were right in the height of COVID. So we knew, you know, pretty much March 13 or 16, whenever everything shut down in America, we were less than a month out from the world team trial or for the Olympic team trials. Like we were, I was, I was in some of the best shape of my life getting ready to go make my first Olympic team. And when that all came down, I was like, okay, well, hopefully it's only two weeks and they will cancel the Olympic games and we can, you know, we'll, we'll make the team in May or June and then be able to go compete. And pretty quickly after that, we found out that, you know, this wasn't going to happen. I mean, we were going to be in this for a little bit longer and I'm like, okay, well, they can still have the Olympic games. So we're going to move them back. What are they going to do? And then they said, okay, we'll move them back a year. And that was really nice because there was like a limbo phase there that was like, man, what's going, you know, what are we going to do? Are they going to cancel the Olympics outright? Like, am I going to have to wait until 2024 for another opportunity? And, um, that was, that was a weird time for me because I didn't have something I was chasing after. I knew I, you know, I, I didn't want to set my goal to 2024 because I still felt like there might be an opportunity in 2020. And finally, when they shifted to 2021, I'm like, okay, we're good to go. Like I'm, you know, we're, we're back on track. Let's go make this happen. And in April of 2021, we had the trials. I made the team, I wrestled really well. Um, and we pretty much were just like, what are we going to do? And we went to the Pan Ams and it was a ton of protocols. There's a lot of testing. You had to do this, that, and the other thing. Um, there was no, there was no mandatory vaccine. It was still experimental. Uh, they were going through all this, this stuff and then they opened it up for different age groups. So they recommended that we got it to go to Tokyo. Well, I had already had it and I was just not, I didn't want to get it. So I made a decision not to get it and, and roll the dice, go into the Olympic games. So we went to the Olympic games, everyone, you know, tested negative every single time, no issues. Um, we got there 21 days early. It was like this whole, you know, it was a whole thing and it went up, went great, you know, um, from, from COVID perspective, everything was smooth. You know, there was, there were no issues other than, you know, other than there was no fans there. It was kind of stunk, but, um, you know, it was, we got through the Olympics and I was like, okay, we're putting that behind us. We're going to, you know, move forward. We had the world championships seven weeks later, and we go to the world championships and, or we go to the training camp for the world championships. We all meet in New York city, outside of New York city in Hoboken. And we're getting ready to go to the world championships in Oslo, Norway. And we get a, we get an email from the USOPC. In order to compete at the, at any USOPC event, to use any of their facilities, to use any of their services, there's a mandatory vaccine. And I'm thinking to myself, Paris is not too far away. The Olympic trials is not too far away. I can't go to camp because camp's right at the Olympic training center. This is a problem. This is a big problem. And, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't stop COVID in its tracks. You know, it doesn't prevent you from dying. It doesn't prevent you from going to the hospital. It doesn't prevent you from getting it. Like, you know, it's a therapeutic. And is it, is it one of the prongs that we're going to use in order to get through an illness? Yes, probably, maybe. But is there other things that should be done? Absolutely. And those other things, what I've been concentrating on, they just happened to overlap, you know, from, from taking my body from a holistic approach, a lot of those things overlap. And, you know, I was, I was, I felt like I was in a really good place. And so that was the day before we left for Oslo, we got that notification. They said, you're going to, you know, there's going to be a meeting. And that was like three days before us, four days before I was supposed to compete. They said, there's going to be a meeting on this day, if you want to comment to the athletes. And I was like, well, I'm not going to be at that meeting. So I wrote a letter to the leadership at USOPC. I wrote a letter to the doctors over there. And I started, you know, I knew, just from being around all the Olympians, headed over to Tokyo, I knew that there were some other athletes who were concerned about this. And there were some other athletes who ended up, you know, they were kind of coerced into getting it. And we're told, hey, if you get this, you won't, you know, you won't get COVID. And there was three, actually, three of them all got it all got COVID later on in the year. So it was like in between, and it was in between the Olympic Games and the World Championships. It was only a seven week period. And some people were having to take two weeks off the mat because they got COVID. And it was just like, and they tested positive. And then they were mad. They were really mad, because they were like, well, I got vaccinated, I should be good. And that's what they were told. And that's what the leaders, you know, some of our leaders within the sport were telling them. And they were they kind of had enough. So we put a group together. Just just from talking, I mean, we're all stuck. Let me remind a little bit was in Tokyo, we're there 21 days early. We weren't we didn't stay in Tokyo, we're five hours away into Katsugawa. And it was all the Olympians for USA Wrestling. So there was 510 16 of us there, plus all the supports that plus all our coaches plus all of our training partners. So we we spent a lot of time together, just talking, we had all our meals together, we weren't allowed outside, we were allowed outside for an hour in the morning, 630, 730 was the only time we were allowed outside. And then we had to be inside the whole time. We were, you know, we felt like we were in prison. And we were hoping that the regulations would lighten up a bit. But everyone was just like, we want to be able to compete, we want to be able to do this. And so we had spent a lot of time talking about it. And like, you know, as the news was coming out, everyone was like, Hey, do you see this, you see that you see this, this update, that's probably a lot. And, you know, a lot of it was, was like making, you know, I felt like my decision was justified in many ways. And there was a there was a small group of us who ended up deciding to come together and advocate for the USOPC to drop this mandate, because it wasn't doing what they said it was going to do. And it was my it was my body, like I had, I had to deal with the consequences of it. And nobody else was going to. And, you know, we, we ended up doing a lot of work, trying to pull people together, trying to get, you know, put them put together a medical panel, we were able to go to speak with some of our representatives down in Washington, DC. We connected with a ton of athletes across almost 12, 12 different sports, maybe a little. I can't remember the exact number. But, you know, we connected with, you know, people from different countries, like, Hey, what do you think I should do? How do we handle this? You know, what's the deal? And I know wrestling, so I know a lot of wrestlers. And we had people coming coming out of the woodworks like, Hey, you should talk to so and so you should talk to this person. There, you know, they want to reach out and speak to you about what you guys are doing. And what we were trying to become was just kind of a shield. And we knew that there was going to be a lot of athletes who were standing up against us, but didn't want to say anything publicly, because they didn't want to be a single loud attack. Because it gets really, I mean, you guys probably know, on social media, it can get really aggressive out there pretty nasty. And with what people are saying, and they just make up complete lies about you. And they say you're doing one thing, and they just try to smear you and stain your reputation. And we felt that if we all came together and created this like group of people to stand up and be like, Hey, this is what we think. We believe that should be a choice to what goes into your body. We don't think there should be any requirement from any organization to make you do this. And this is what we're advocating for. So you know, people try to paint us in one way or another. And ultimately, we made some really good progress and USOPC dropped their mandate. So for all athletes, so we don't have to worry about that anymore. And I think a lot of it had to do with the effort that we put in, in order to make those changes. So I'm really proud of what we've done. And I know that the work isn't done, I was actually just getting off the phone with some of our track athletes, USA Track and Field is requiring it because the their governing organization, World Athletics, I think is the name of it. So for wrestling, ours is USA Wrestling. And then on above that is United World Wrestling. So that that organization will determine, you know, where your competitions are, what the requirements are for entry, and yada, yada, yada. So the equivalent of that in track and field, they said, well, you must be vaccinated if you want to compete. Well, what are you guys doing? You're making, you're making two separate classes of people. You're making, you know, the haves and the have nots. You know, how do we not see the similarities that are going on here? You can't just separate people based on something that I mean, you can go to 100% vaccine cruise, and people are coming off it. Yeah. You know, they're coming off sick and ill. And, and that happens. And like, well, this is our best, you know, our best defense. And I feel like more and more people are like, this, like, if you want to get it, go for it. Like, if that makes you feel more comfortable, do it. But I'm not gonna force you to do anything that you don't want to do. And, and those are, those are still issues, still battles that we're having to deal with. And, you know, I feel, I feel like the tide is shifting. I think that there's some, some deeper things at play. And, and it's unfortunate that it is that way. But, you know, we just got to go out and do the best we can. [Speaker 2] (47:06 - 47:14) When, when exactly did they drop the mandates? The organization that you mentioned? Gotcha. Gotcha. [Speaker 1] (47:14 - 47:50) 10 days ago that we got an email that stated their new COVID vaccine regulations. And then we had a call. And on the call, one of, one of the, one of the doctors tried to compare this shot with taking ibuprofen. He said, there's risks associated with taking ibuprofen, you can get an ulcer and die. Same thing with any treatment. And he just like downplayed it that way, which I thought was pretty irresponsible. I immediately called our medical board. I was like, hey, this is what this guy said. What do you think? He's like, probably the most irresponsible thing that he could have said. [Speaker 2] (47:50 - 47:56) Well, and even so, even so, like, where there's risk, there should be choice. No one's forcing ibuprofen down your throat. [Speaker 1] (47:57 - 48:01) Exactly. Exactly. And that's what, that's what a couple of people said, like, yeah, we're not being mandated to take ibuprofen. [Speaker 2] (48:02 - 48:02) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (48:02 - 49:25) And, and, you know, everyone is, as long as you label a treatment, a vaccine, everyone's just like, okay, it's just like all the other ones. It's the exact same. I'm like, okay, well, this is brand new. And we've never used this technology before. And we don't know the side effects. We don't know long term safety. Like, well, this is the most studied, you know, this is the most studied drug that's ever been out there. And like, it's less than two years old. What are you talking about? Like, how are you like, you know, five years, 10 years, 15 years, but we need to see what that looks like. And, you know, it's nice that some of these side effects are coming out with, with the release of the Pfizer data. And, you know, you're, you're seeing some countries who are completely dropping. I mean, Australia is not one of them. I mean, I don't, I don't really know what's going on right now, but, you know, from, from following it back in, you know, a couple of months ago, it was kind of got a little, got a little hairy there for a bit. And I know China is changing their regulations right now. And, and it's, it can get kind of, it can get kind of weird. Like you can see how this, how it can get pretty slippery, pretty quick. I mean, Canada was one of those examples. I mean, I thought Canada was probably one of the freer places. And, and, you know, just seeing how their, their prime minister and their leaders were, were talking to their citizens was kind of, kind of appalling. [Speaker 2] (49:26 - 50:10) Yeah. You know, everything we just talked about too, it's running counter to what we just talked about before about self responsibility, this idea that I'm responsible for your health, you know, that I am responsible for it. And it also, it goes against something that I think is foundational, which is like, is, is just the right to your own body, the right to bodily sovereignty, individual rights. And, you know, one of my favorite quotes in the world is, is this was one quote by Ayn Rand, and it's the smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities. And I think it just, it nails it, in my opinion, like the fact that someone's entitled to your body, like, no, that doesn't, that's not how it works. But, you know. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (50:10 - 53:06) It's a, it's a, it's a very strange time to be alive. You know, while we have all this, like, amazing technology, and, and things that we can do, we also are living in, like, what we're going through this transition, we like, I feel like we don't really know which direction we're going. And, and I feel like as part of the human condition, it's just happening at such a faster rate now, because we're all so connected, one, and we have access to get anywhere in the world in less than 24 hours, pretty much. I mean, you never had that opportunity before. And our world went from who we know in our community, maybe who we know in our state, to who we know across the world, because I can connect to you instantly, like I connect to both you guys instantaneously, and we can talk about ideas. And there's a ton of information out there that's being suppressed, hidden, manipulated. You know, there's, there's people who are driving their specific narrative, we're all doing, I'm driving my narrative, you guys are driving your narrative. And it's gotta be like, Okay, well, what are we what are we trying to accomplish here? Well, I'm trying to accomplish, like you said, sovereignty, trying to accomplish people being as healthy as possible, making proper decisions, making decisions that benefit everybody, what doesn't, you know, that's beneficial to me as well. Like, I want to reduce waste, and reduce the amount of plastic that I use. That's something that that's one of my goals. And I'm not going to be perfect at it, but I'm continually getting better. And I'm demanding that and you can see more and more products that are coming out that are sustainable and regenerative. You know, the more regenerative we can be, the better our planet's going to be in the future, because we're not going to have millions and millions of tons of just waste, floating around the sea floating, you know, everywhere. And those are those are things that I feel like are noble causes, you know, I do see that some people are trying to manipulate the system that will lie in their pockets, which is kind of, it's tough to deal with, because a lot of good has come out of a lot of techno, not a good, a lot of technology, a lot of innovation has come out of a capitalist society. And, you know, that while there are flaws to it, it's still a really, really impressive system. And I don't add, you know, I don't know, it's a really complicated situation, you know, where we're at, like geopolitics, technology, innovation, all those things are really complicated. And it's going to take a lot of smart people come together to figure out the problem, and, and not try to, you know, not try to lie in the pockets of their friends or their politicians or whoever else. [Speaker 3] (53:07 - 53:51) Yeah, man, I mean, and the fact of the matter is, we've never really seen a true capitalist society, we think we live in one, we think we have, but we really haven't. At its peak, from capitalism, man, we saw more technological advancement, more wealth and more innovation than any other time in history. So I think capitalism cops a booboo where it definitely shouldn't and people just don't understand it in any in any real profound way, man. Dude, I want to ask you, like, what's the current sentiment among athletes now around the COVID issue? Like, are people is the sentiment like, hang on, you may have been lied to a whole lot here. There's lots of flaws that are coming to the surface, which I might not have questioned before. You know, like, this just seems like a whole lot of, you know, I mean, hobgoblin. [Speaker 1] (53:51 - 56:12) Again, it's, it comes back to like that personal responsibility you get at the elite level. Everyone knows about that. Everyone knows that it's, you know, their personal responsibility. They're not going to put blame on somebody else. Otherwise, they wouldn't be there. And I feel like more and more of that is coming out as it's, you know, as people are shining light on. And people, like what we did by informing athletes for medical freedom, we just shined light, you know, we we eliminated the problem. And we said, Hey, this is a problem that we need to face. And what it's done is it's opened people's mind like, okay, well, what else, you know, and a lot of times it was like, hey, this is where we, I think we're being manipulated. And we'll wait and see. And now as we wait and see, I was like, I feel like I was justified in what I said. And people are like, okay, you know, you made that accurate prediction. What else do you know what else is going on? What else are you predicting? And I'm like, well, it's not really me like I can I can tell you what I think. But, you know, there's a serious attack on freedom, in general, just freedom to do any, you know, freedom to buy what you want to buy freedom to travel where you want to travel, freedom to do what you want to do. And people will take it. Oh, so you think you think that there should be steroids allowed? Like, no, we all you know, we made we came to the decision that steroids should be allowed, especially, you know, especially in wrestling where there's a chance Mike Tyson just said something like, he's like, I'm for steroids, and running, swimming, whatever. But if you have an opportunity, if you're one on one in a combat sport, there's no steroids, because you can literally kill somebody. And I was like, that's a that's a decent perspective to think about, like, if I'm an MMA, and the other guys doing steroids, and I'm not even literally punch a hole in my face, and I could be destroyed for the rest of my life. And so I kind of understand that, or, you know, it's like, oh, shit, you know, everyone, everyone be allowed to do heroin now all the time. Like, I'm like, no, no, like, but no one's forcing me to do heroin. Yeah, no one's forcing me to take steroids. But I will say, I will say that there are countries old Soviet Bloc countries where those, those athletes were forced to take steroids. They had no idea what they were taking. I watched Rocky four again the other day. [Speaker 2] (56:13 - 56:15) Yeah, yeah, what's up? [Speaker 1] (56:16 - 56:19) There's a documentary. It was I think it was on Netflix. Icarus. [Speaker 2] (56:20 - 56:20) Oh, I saw that. [Speaker 1] (56:20 - 58:14) Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was really good documentary. And, you know, that's the reason that Russia wasn't allowed to fly their flag at the Olympic Games in Tokyo. And it was because of the profound cheating that they got caught doing. And everyone made a decision like, yeah, these are the rules that we decided on. And we voted on it. And this is what we think, you know, best, you know, this is what steroids can do. And this is what it does to people, we should try to limit that because the purity of sport is that everyone's on an equal playing field from the time they're born. And, you know, they get to do it, you know, they can train the way they want to train. And that's, that's what's cool about it. Like, I'm training different when somebody else than somebody else, and we're to go out and see who does better. You know, we might have the exact same training system, but you're just more naturally gifted. Or, you know, every single decision that's made, like, what I do is making every decision, you know, whether it be to walk, take the stairs or ride the elevator, or, you know, little things like that, you know, is that going to pay off? You know, will that pay off in my success? And it's, and that's a lot different than just shooting someone in my arm and being like, or into my butt or whatever. And you're like, okay, I'm taking steroids now. Like, that's a different thing. That's a completely different thing. No one's forcing you to eat a certain way. Yes. No one's not, you know, no one's saying, okay, you cannot eat organ meat. You can't eat muscle, you can't eat a cow, you can't eat chicken, but you can have, you know, fish. That's all you're allowed to eat. Like, what? No, not doing that. Like, no one's forcing you to be a vegan. No one's forcing you to be vegetarian. No one's forcing you to do any of that stuff. You make that personal decision. And you're trying to have the best performance that you can possibly have. So I can see where they're trying to draw those parallels. But I feel like they're just being, you know, facetious at that point. [Speaker 3] (58:15 - 58:32) Yeah, absolutely, man. One of the coolest things that I saw throughout it was, there was a one point where LeBron spoke up, he posted this meme on Instagram. I don't know if you saw it, you know, the Spider-Man meme where they're pointing at each other. And one's COVID, one's flu, the same thing. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (58:33 - 59:34) Yeah. I mean, it's like, you know, these high level athletes, they know, I mean, they're smart. I mean, a lot of, you know, they, you kind of have to, you have to be fairly intelligent to, to make the right decisions to become, you know, a high level athlete. Not necessarily. I mean, but we have access to some of the greatest coaches, some of the greatest minds, in nutrition and health and wellness, because there's, at that level, there's millions, hundreds of millions of dollars to be made. And if they're not, if they're not doing everything in their power to figure out what will fuel a better performance, then they're selling themselves short. And that's what I feel like, I think I saw something like LeBron spends like one and a half million dollars on his health per year or something like that, top raised, like, you know, a million dollars a year, whether that be a chef or, you know, a personal trainer or whatever. But they take it seriously. And as they should, I mean, everyone should. Their livelihood. Yeah, I wish everybody would take their health seriously. [Speaker 2] (59:34 - 1:00:41) And as an athlete, you're not going to be an athlete till you're 90. Like you're not going to be professional after your 90s. You really have a small window of your professional athlete to make a living, to provide, to, to keep your legacy alive. So like, it makes sense. These athletes are making a lot of money. Like what's a million dollars a year to someone who's making 50, 60, $70 million a year with endorsements and everything, you know, you know what I mean? So, but with all this, I think it comes down to having a personal philosophy, which is what we've talked about before, because we talked about high level athletes, but then again, speaking of Australia, where Joel is at, we just had the Australian open a little while ago to start the year. And, you know, Novak made certain decisions in terms of what to do with his body. But then, you know, you have another athlete who's doing a press conference and who's like, well, I'm going to trust the science and I'm going to trust the high level medical authorities. And I'm going to, I'm going to do what they tell, they tell me, which is interesting, unless he was just saying that to say it or, you know, or, or is that what he really believes? So I just find it interesting, you know, this idea of your personal philosophy as an athlete, you're even at the top of your game, but you still have two opposing views. Yeah. Anyways. [Speaker 1] (1:00:42 - 1:02:29) I mean, I totally understand it. You know, if, if you're inundated with information constantly, and they're telling you to do one thing and they say, Oh, look how great this is. And you don't have the wherewithal to like, go through the study and go through the data and go through that stuff. That's hard. Like some people don't want to do that. They would rather, you know, play video games and look into that. And it's not a problem, but they're making their bed. They're going to sleep in it. That's the way I look at it. And do I want everyone to be as healthy as possible and go out there? Yeah. But a part of me is like, if they're making the wrong decision, that's on them. Like I put in the work to get to where I'm at. I put in the work to learn about this stuff. If they're not willing to put in the work, I'm not just going to hand it to them. You know, I'll guide them and say, Hey, this is where you should look. This is where you should look. This is what you should do. And they can make that decision on their own. But it is, I can understand completely because I've seen it. Why people believe what they believe. I can totally understand it. I mean, it's, it's really hard. It's really, really hard to sift through all the information that's out there and decide what's good information. I mean, one thing I touched on before is like, I look for people who make predictions and have a track record of making good predictions. You know, they're not going to get everyone right. No one, you know, no one does, but if they're making predictions and they're, you know, and it's proven to be correct time after time after time, I'm going to, I'm going to listen to them initially and be like, okay, this is my starting block rather than just listening to, you know, the guy down the street or, you know, mainstream media or whatever, you know, I'm going to, I'm trying to follow people who are successful at what they're doing. And some of that success comes from making, making correct predictions. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:02:29 - 1:03:29) And the, what we were talking about before around even just like technology, you need to be able to have all the information, you know, and what's happening now is that all these people that are speaking out against the conventional narrative, you know, the mainstream narrative, they're getting censored, whether it's through social media, whether it's on the mainstream news. So you, you need to, in today's day and age, you need to go through that kind of messy process of sifting through things, of digging deep into internet, reading books, of watching podcasts. I mean, podcasts, I feel like these days are becoming really important in sharing knowledge because, you know, we're not censored except for that one time on YouTube, you know, like it's just like a person has to take responsibility and come to some awareness. Like, Hey, listen, there's all this information out there. There are people out there that I respect that are also saying some things that are different. Maybe I, maybe I should look into that. Maybe, you know, but again, it comes down to the per the individual to do that. No one's, no one's going to feed them. You can lead the horse to water. [Speaker 1] (1:03:29 - 1:04:01) You can't force it to drink. Exactly. Exactly. For me personally, in terms of technology, I would post a story and I would get between like 40 and 60,000 views on my story. And as soon as I started talking about athletes for medical freedom, my numbers went down to like three to 5,000. And I'm like, okay, I'm shadowbanned. Like 100%. There's like, people aren't seeing my stuff. Like, you know, whether they put me all the way at the back of, you know, someone's story, you know, timeline, or they just like the algorithm doesn't show it to them. [Speaker 2] (1:04:02 - 1:04:07) Freedom is an evil word, man. Freedom. You put freedom in there. They don't like, the algorithms don't like that word. [Speaker 1] (1:04:08 - 1:04:42) Yeah. Yeah. And, and I mean, ever since, you know, recently, since COVID has kind of calmed down and everyone's worried about other things in the world, which happens, um, I've been getting more and more views, you know, I'm back up to like, depending on what I post, I'm back up to like 20,000. So as soon as I post this podcast on my Instagram, it's going to go back down to 3,000 again. So, um, sorry, bro. Yeah. No worries. No worries. It's, uh, it's worth it because that, you know, those 3,000 people are going to be able to just, uh, disseminate some of that information as well. So, um, you know, it's tough. [Speaker 3] (1:04:43 - 1:05:20) Sorry, man. We'll find you, we'll find you a snippet that doesn't, doesn't, doesn't step on any toes. So that's right, Greg. I mean, you know, man, something that we would have been speaking about, which really, um, is curious to me is like, there's this sentiment within, you know, the truth communities or whatever that everyone at the top level is like bought and paid for, you know what I mean? But simply put like some people are just still indoctrinated. They're just still conditioned by the team around them, by whatever it is, you know what I mean? It's not like every single person has reached this level of success. It's just following this, you know, this big pharma, um, totalitarian line, you know what I mean? It's like some people genuinely, the majority of people genuinely just making the choices based on what the knowledge they've received, you know? [Speaker 1] (1:05:22 - 1:07:45) And you can't fault them for it. I mean, they're, they're, you know, it's like what you're taught, you know, you only know what you know. You know, I don't, I don't, I don't study, you know, nuclear, you know, nuclear reactors, I don't know anything about, like, how am I supposed to make a decision on that? You know, I trust, I trust the scientists that are doing that. I trust the people that are, you know, putting out these, you know, creating power with nuclear, you know, nuclear reactors, you know, I don't know. I mean, I don't know anything about, you know, how to build a car. Like, you know, I kind of understand the basic components. I know how to drive a car, but I don't know what goes into building that. I mean, that's, that's a huge task. And I don't think any one person could do it on their own. I know that, you know, even Elon Musk, smartest man, you know, one of the smartest people that ever walked this planet. He doesn't know how to build a car all by himself. How would he do it? He could, he's going to go mine all, all the, the, the elements that you need to make a battery. He's going to put it all together. He knows how to weld. He knows how to do all this stuff. But he knows how to get people to work nice, to do those things. That's, that's for sure. But there's, there's just things we don't know, you know, we don't, and we don't know, we don't know. So we're going to do what we do, we do know and try to, you got to have faith in people. I mean, you have to, like, if you don't, this is a very lonely world, like a very lonely world. If you don't trust anybody, shoot, that's not a way to live. You can't live like that. Like you got to be able to trust somebody. And, you know, we've been, we've been going to school, going to public school, going to private school, going to college. I trust the people around me. I'm like, okay, I think, you know, your argument sounds pretty good. I don't have a counter argument. I don't personally have one and I don't, you know, no one's, no one's here to debate you. So I'm going to listen to what you have to say. And, you know, then I look into it further. Okay, this guy was kind of full of crap. And he was just, you know, he was telling the line a little bit on what was being, you know, if he's being honest or not. So, and that's, again, if you have the free time to do that, then you can. But most people don't, they got to work, they got a family, they got to do this, they got to do that, they have responsibilities. And boy, why tell you having kids is a big responsibility. I don't know if you two have kids. I got three. And it is a lot. A lot. I have a lot of free time. I have a lot of free time. [Speaker 2] (1:07:46 - 1:07:54) Yeah, Joel's got two. I have a small puppy and I have 12 chicks that are arriving today for our chicken coop. So you know, I have another 12 kids coming. [Speaker 1] (1:07:56 - 1:09:53) Yeah. You don't know, you don't. I mean, Joel, you can see this too. It's like, you don't know what it means to have a kid. Like you have, I have two dogs as well. Like, yeah, dogs. Okay, they're hard. Puppies, yeah, they're hard. They wake up in the morning. Kids are, kids are crazy. They're crazy. You think that they have a rational thought in their brain, and they don't. They do not. They go out and they do their only job. They're trying to find the boundaries. Like, okay, I'm going to bounce off this boundary. I'm going to see how far I can push it out. I'm going to bounce on this one and see how far I can push it out. And constant button pushing, like, hmm, can I smack this cup off the table? What will happen? Like trying to test it out. Like this plastic one, whoo, there it goes all the way over there. What about this glass one? That was kind of cool. Like, oh, I mean, we were all, that was us. All of us were like, at one point, you know, and that's the growth, that's the growth process. And I feel like it's, you know, basically every hour on the hour, I'm having to like call my wife. I'm like, hey, we just, we got to realize that they're just pushing our buttons because that's it. We're, you know, we got to continue to be better. And then five minutes later to do something that I thought we already got past. And I'm just like, pulling my hair up. What are you doing? You know that you're not supposed to pick your brother up out of his packing book. He's only 10 pounds. You cannot pick him up. No, you should not pull him up by his head. I was just trying to support his head. Yeah. Two hands driving him like this. Not okay. Please don't do that. Oh, well, don't you tell me to support his head? Yes. Yes. You're very, you're very smart. Yes. That's what I said, but not like that. Well, dad, you gotta be more specific. And then I'm, I lose my mind. That's my three-year-old. That's my three-year-old. [Speaker 2] (1:09:53 - 1:10:04) Oh, you're like, you're like competing at the highest level in wrestling. You're like, yeah, no problem. Having a conversation with a three-year-old shows circles around me, shows circles around me. [Speaker 1] (1:10:05 - 1:11:10) She remembers everything. Not one thing gets past her ever. I can't, I'll eat something and I'll have it in my car on my way home from practice, whether, you know, whatever it is. And she'll be like, dad, she'll come to me. What's that smell like? What'd you eat, dad? Can I have some? I'm like, uh, no, you can't have some. I always tell her it's coffee. I'm like, oh, you know, I did. I had coffee. You can't have this. You know, it's never, you know, it's not coffee. She's like, when I'm big, I'm gonna have coffee with you. You have a lot of coffee. I was like, okay. It's like, you say you would never lie to your kids. You're just lying to yourself. I have to lie to your kids. Otherwise, I mean, to a certain extent. Dad, you're going to sleep right now, right? It's 730. Is it nighttime? I'm like, yeah, you have to go to sleep. Are you going to sleep? Yep. I'm going to sleep. Okay. Do you want me to go with you? No, you should go to sleep. I make sure you wash your hands. [Speaker 4] (1:11:11 - 1:11:11) All right. [Speaker 1] (1:11:11 - 1:11:21) Thank you. It's like a 10 minute conversation that, you know, there's obviously, there's some, there's some things that we've worked out, but being a parent is really hard, really, really hard. [Speaker 3] (1:11:22 - 1:11:38) The difference between me and you is that I had no idea what responsibility was until I had kids, man. I was just straight, living my life, doing my thing, doing all the video games, whatever it was, man. I was only like a kid where it's like, all right, I'm going to figure something out now. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:11:39 - 1:12:08) So if you're not ready to have a kid, don't do it. I'm great. I mean, it's serious, man. If you want to be a successful parent, you got to be prepared and you'll never be prepared, honestly. I mean, you got to be prepared to get your mind blown and go after it. I mean, it's, we've been doing it as humans for a long time, but it is tough. It is not for the faint of heart. [Speaker 3] (1:12:09 - 1:12:09) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:12:09 - 1:12:47) But I love my kids. I mean, I do love them. They're all awesome. I mean, like so much joy from looking out, like, just like watching them run around. Like my, my middle one, she's 18 months. She got up from her nap and she knocked on the door. And she, cause you know, we put her in my oldest shared bedroom, she knocked on the door and she's like, dad, go open the door. And she's like, sees the light. And she's like, and then she's just waddling down the hall. And she just looks like a little penguin. I just started laughing. Like, it's just like, just their presence is, it brings a lot of joy. [Speaker 3] (1:12:48 - 1:12:54) I agree, man. I think we better shout out our wives quickly just in case. [Speaker 1] (1:12:54 - 1:13:02) Yeah, exactly. Yeah. If I didn't, yeah. Megan is, I would be lost without her. Absolutely lost. [Speaker 3] (1:13:02 - 1:13:21) Yeah. Kyle, man. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us. This has been an absolute pleasure to share this dialogue and this conversation with you, man. Thank you so much for everything that you've been through and for who you are now and what you stand for and for what you're, what you're representing. It's, it's powerful, dude. [Speaker 1] (1:13:22 - 1:13:35) I appreciate it. I really, really appreciate you guys having me on. I mean, you know, I love what you're doing and, and you know, I'm glad you guys are trying to amplify this voice and talk about health and freedom and you know, it's, it's important stuff. [Speaker 2] (1:13:36 - 1:13:58) Yeah, man. We're doing our part, man, to just share knowledge, synthesize knowledge and present it in a way that if people are into it, cool, they can, they can tune in. If they're not, then don't, there's plenty of other things to tune into. So yeah, man, appreciate you. Yeah. Wish you all the best, dude. I'll be, I'll be tuning in and following your career as 2024 approaches. It's 2024, right? [Speaker 1] (1:13:59 - 1:13:59) Yep. [Speaker 2] (1:13:59 - 1:14:09) Paris. Okay. Are you, are you, is your, is that like the end goal for you? Or do you think like, I don't, I forget how old you are, like 2028 in Los Angeles is where I live, man. You know, I don't know. [Speaker 1] (1:14:09 - 1:14:30) So I just turned 31 in February. So 24, I'll be 33. And then in LA, 28, I'll be 37. And where I feel, I mean, I feel really good right now. Um, but you know, we'll see what life takes me. I would love, I would love to go. [Speaker 2] (1:14:30 - 1:14:37) I would love to be able to stay in the FP train, man, and all the other awesome stuff out there when it comes to Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:14:37 - 1:14:53) Yeah. You know, just keeping myself, you know, as, as young as possible and then making sure that I'm, you know, I'm living by natural law and following, you know, not trying to smash my joints and do the right things. I mean, those are something that, that I'll definitely be following for a long time. [Speaker 3] (1:14:54 - 1:15:02) Awesome. Awesome, man, guys. Thank you so much for listening to this conversation of you for the truth. We'll see you all next time. Take care. Catch you later.