Matt Presti The Creator Within

[Speaker 1] (0:00 - 0:07) You are now listening to the Here for the Truth podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Yerasimos. [Speaker 2] (0:11 - 1:54) Yo, yo, welcome to the Here for the Truth podcast. I'm Joel Rafiti, got my co-host Yerasimos with me as always. Today, we have the return of the incredible former president of the Walter Russell University, Matt Presti, and we dive into a deep and highly valuable conversation around what the truth-seeking process really is, what are the signposts that one is on the path, you know, and what are some of the signposts that one might be drifting from the path. And I really just hope you guys get a lot of value out of this conversation. Matt told us just when we went off air that the Walter Russell University is offering 20% off all their books and booklets up until the end of August. So we've got the discount code in the brief, which is truth20. And if you head to philosophy.org, you can take advantage of some of the most amazing knowledge ever put forth. Again, those details will be in the brief below wherever you're consuming this podcast. Guys, thanks for listening. Thanks for being here for the truth. We appreciate it. And we really hope you enjoy another one of our conversations. All right, everybody, welcome back to the Here for the Truth podcast. This is episode 134. And today we have the return of Matt Presti, who first joined us back on episode 96, where we discussed the secrets of light and the study of Walter Russell. Matt is a metascientist, musician, patriot, philosopher, poet, practitioner of universal law, natural science, and living philosophy. Plus, you know, just really one of the best dudes that I know. And it's a pleasure to have you back, man. Welcome. [Speaker 1] (1:55 - 1:57) Guys, the honor is all mine. Thank you so much. [Speaker 2] (1:58 - 2:57) No worries at all, man. Dude, one way I guess we want to kick this one off, you know, we're seeing so many people, I guess, now moving into more of a truth-seeking path or a truth-seeking journey. And I think as a result of that, you know, the pathways to get lost on this journey have become vaster as well. So I guess I wanted to touch on, in general, let's talk about the truth-seeking process, and I guess what that is and how one can really stay grounded on this path and really ensure that they are actually close to a bedrock of truth, as opposed to constantly just grasping onto someone else's idea of truth. Because so many fractions are just bursting out of the seams now. And it seems that everyone has wild views about everything. Everything is a conspiracy all of a sudden, you know, all science is false. So where do we start to help guide people on this process? [Speaker 1] (2:59 - 5:09) That's a great question. And it is a symptom that we do see more frequently today. I liken it to my own journey. It's a very lonely process. And I would say if you're on the right track, you're going to feel very alone. Because there's no two people in this world alike. And what you have to give within you can only be discovered alone. So you might be in the mix of following like a flat Earth, for instance, following, or space isn't real, following, or virus isn't real, following, but yet you're still in a group, you're still in a following. So to me, it's really important. And one thing that most of these truth movements, if you will, to use that term, miss, is the emphasis on the soleness of this journey. Because how can you possibly, sure, I could be part of all these different communities I named, but I'm still not really hard looking at myself and my own individual purpose, which is to really learn to express what is inside me, that is dying to get out, something that has to get out of me, that only I can give to the world. So when you become part of a truth movement, you're really leaving yourself in the backseat, you're following the leaders of this movement, whatever piece of pie of the truth overall community movement it is, you're still prone to have to listen or at least contemplate and follow these certain guidelines to be a part of that particular community. But when it comes to the community of the self, the individual self, there is really no community. It's a commune with you and the Creator within you, which is a very lonely journey. But it's in that lonely journey that I really think we can bring out the most authentic part of ourself. And that is really the gift that you give back to the world. And that becomes a living truth in itself, I would say. [Speaker 3] (5:10 - 5:42) Yeah. How is like that interplay of interacting with the external world and seeking truths, like what's happening in the world? And then also like, well, who am I and what are my gifts? And how do I give them the world? Like, how has that been for you? Like, how is that dance between the external and the internal been for you? Like, or maybe you found yourself like, okay, I'm too focused on research on, you know, who's pulling the strings on this planet versus, okay, now I need to step back, maybe write a song or do something else. Like, how has that been? [Speaker 1] (5:44 - 6:28) Well, they're proportional. You can always be, and I have been myself, too much into something, you know, too much into the news, too much into the state of the country, the direction. But for me, if you can look at that as part of your solo journey, why am I into this? Really sit and think with yourself. What is thinking? What is myself thinking about that's too much or too little? But it's really a fine balance. And so those things that we get too much into can also be big motivators. You know, and I think, Joel, that you might have gone through a period where I think you said you went up against the court system in Australia four times. Is that right? [Speaker 2] (6:29 - 6:33) Yeah, three times. They dropped the fourth one without me showing up, which is good. [Speaker 1] (6:34 - 6:45) But wasn't that experience, that external experience, something that really inspired you inside that made you write a song that went around the world? I mean, that's kind of what I'm getting at, I think. [Speaker 2] (6:46 - 8:19) Yeah, well, I mean, Just Asking was a song I wrote before the court system. There's no song that I wrote in regards to that process. But I mean, that's a very, very key example, though, of the external actually driving the internal growth and vice versa. Because in life, we're always handed the circumstances that are necessary for the next step in our growth process. And I think one of the key metrics of, am I still growing? Am I still evolving? Am I still on this path? Is if I'm too comfortable, if I'm too convenient, if I'm too stagnant, if there's nothing I'm grappling with, if there's nothing I have to exert my will against, then I tend to question things sometimes. Because the truth is a killer, bro. This is not an easy journey by any means whatsoever. And it's always going to be circumstances provided to test your mettle. And particularly with the court system, I didn't want to deal with that. I was like, why is this happening to me? Why do I have to deal with all these incoming fines, police, cops? I had no idea about the courts. Do I hire lawyers? What do I do? But in the end, my inner compass told me, this is just wrong from the get-go. And even if I paid someone else to defend me, I would have felt completely inauthentic as a result. So I'm like, this is calling me to adventure. So I had to go down the path of actually learning how to defend myself appropriately. And that was one of the greatest self-esteem building exercises I've ever done in my life. And it made me a far better human man, far more rational, far more logical as a result of having to navigate that web. [Speaker 1] (8:19 - 8:23) And would you say it was a very lonely experience? [Speaker 2] (8:25 - 9:00) Man, it was a lonely experience, but there's always key individuals who arrive to help on the path, particularly if you're sincere and particularly if you're willing to ask the questions, you know? So I think it's very easy for people when they come against something like that to kind of hermitize themselves. But I'm a guy who's kind of always in my life found the path also through connection, you know? So just by asking the questions and being clear and really honest and truthful about where I'm at and what I need, the help does come. So there were individuals who came along the way and really helped guide me how to best navigate this in terms of their own experience. [Speaker 1] (9:02 - 9:30) That's well said. That kind of dovetails with what I was saying about the loneliness of going inside is you have to also, as you just asked, Yerasimos, have that external balance as well. Be open to the mighty forces that will come to your aid when you bring a man up or woman up and you take that path of authenticity. The universe has to meet you halfway in every endeavor that you work toward. [Speaker 3] (9:31 - 10:32) Yeah. And when I think about my own journey too, it's like when I've made a decision to, let's say, walk the road less traveled and I guess take a more lonely path, the right mentors at the right time showed up or the right book showed up. But then it's up to the individual to go, hey, like, can I be open enough and humble enough? This is where I think the term humility comes into play. Humble enough to know I don't know everything. And here's this person who, you know, something within me feels like this person has something to offer me or like this book. I picked it up and I looked at the back of it and it spoke to me and I'm going to go sit under a tree and read it. You know, it's like you have to be open to these kinds of things. And yeah, I mean, if I look back on my life, there's been like key moments of just the right person coming in and shifting the trajectory of my life. But again, at the end of the day, I was, I'm making those decisions, whether or not to go on that path or to do something different or to go against the crowd, et cetera. [Speaker 1] (10:33 - 11:04) Yeah, that's well said. And I think, you know, you have to have that balance enough to be aware of what's coming into your field as much as you want to affect your field. It is an interchange. It's to quote Walter Russell, of course, he said, too much insight, too much looking inward is what we call a daydreamer. Too much looking outward is what we call a hedonist. But in between there somewhere is the balance, which is why it always comes down to that one word. [Speaker 3] (11:05 - 11:40) Yeah. And we are, you know, we're social beings at the end of the day. So like, I personally don't want to, you know, go build a cabin in the woods there for 27 years, living off the land by myself. Right. And that's just not how I want to, how I want to be. And I know, I know Michael always talks about the existential trinity, you know, the eigenwelt, the mitwelt and the unwelt. And it's like, there's that balance between the me, the I, and being social and then also the natural world. And I think, I think the person that can find that balance and integrate those three to the best of their ability, I think, you know, lives a fulfilling and successful life, in my opinion. [Speaker 1] (11:41 - 13:22) Yeah. That's well said. One last example was the movie End of the Wild. Because before seeing that movie, and sometimes movies can have that catalyzing effect on you, but the scene that really stuck out for me was he had achieved what he wanted. He got the hell away from the modernity. He was in the woods. He was doing everything by himself. And he was writing in his journal, and he writes, happiness is best shared. And he circles it, like hundreds of times, just stressing to himself that even though I achieved this perfect state of the, you know, hermit in the woods, I'm not able to share this with anybody. So for me, that was like a catalyzing, because I did for a period of years, when I started this truth movement, for myself in 2001, maybe me and one other guy knew, out of all the people we worked with at all the different job sites, had any interest in any of this stuff, 9-11. So it was a really lonely road. And it was a road of watching people regurgitate for years and years without questioning ever the narratives. So it's refreshing to see now, in this particular time, how much the movement has grown, but there's still these warning signs and, and these cautionary tales that we have to be aware of that, you know, to one extreme is the hermit and to the other is the person who's completely morphed themself inside out into a, you know, collective structure. So again, it's, it's all down to one word balance. [Speaker 3] (13:23 - 13:34) Yeah. Sorry, I just want to say that movie had such a huge impact on me and that exact scene. Yeah. It was just incredible. Catalyzing, yeah. [Speaker 2] (13:35 - 14:05) I think, I think it's Hegel who talks about the I-thou, like as much as we can know ourselves just by ourselves, never will you know yourself as a deep until you see yourself through the mirror and the reflection of another, you know, particularly like in a relationship of, of, of any particular kind. And I mean, that's, that's been the truth for me, you know, it's sure I can know myself. I know what inspires me. I know what I'm lit up by. I know on some level, the things I want to say, but without the feedback from the environment, you know, I can't really sharpen that iron. [Speaker 1] (14:07 - 16:24) Yeah. It's, it's, you know, the whole process of awakening is as much internal as it is external stimuli. So you're, you're a body, you're a physical body and like any good artist can't create art without the body to do it. So, but it's really, again, that balance between mind and the techniques that you use when you learn how to use your hands, you know, to create great art like sculpting. And I've been on an art kick lately, man. I've been looking at accounts on Twitter that are just mind blowing. I'm loving seeing it because it's, it's reawakening something, I think, in a lot of people that when they see these works of art that are majestic, like sculptures that have satin covering them, but it's all made of stone. I mean, what kind of hands and mind had to do something in such concert that that was the result? And I think I said in the past interview recently that if I wanted to control the human race, I would find a way to control their hands and not let them produce art, but keep them distracted with something in their hands so that they're never really creating, just using other people's applications, which are limited by the minds of the person that created that app. So really great art to me is, is making a comeback, at least in the mental sphere. And I'm hoping that it will translate into the physical sphere and more people will, you know, rekindle an interest in this, because we all have some really incredible talent. And it doesn't matter who it is, there's something we can do very well. And that's, I think, why the question of being alone for a period of time lets you sit and think with yourself about what that really is. You know, that you're not going to get from any really, like a movement of a truth movement community in particular, not that it isn't good to interact with that, just that you have to have that alone time to really think about what it is you want to do with your own two strong arms. You know, and that can really be an effectual agent of change in this world, where very little is created by man these days, but we can always pick it back up. [Speaker 3] (16:26 - 16:28) Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. [Speaker 1] (16:29 - 16:29) Sorry, go ahead. [Speaker 3] (16:30 - 16:59) No, I'll just say every major decision that I made in my life, that was like a major rite of passage. It all came from being alone and being in nature and having, you know, that lightning bolt of thought come in. And then for me to go, uh-huh, that, that's the, that's the next path. That's the next thing to do. You know, like if I was constantly distracted on my phone and moving from one application to the next application, that's like, I don't think there's the space for that, that insight to come through in the same way. [Speaker 2] (17:00 - 17:35) Yeah, totally. Also though, I think there's like a trap, I mean, particularly more in like potentially new age circles where people can believe like they don't need to read anything. They don't need to research anything. They don't need to look into anything because, you know, a lot of the things that I've been truly inspired by have been through me acting, through me seeking, through me hearing an author's name or hearing a book's name or hearing it, hearing a name of presentation that sparks something else, you know? So I see, I see many people believing that, you know, the most profound thing they can do is do nothing, read nothing, look at nothing, say nothing, touch nothing, you know? It's like, that doesn't work. [Speaker 1] (17:37 - 21:16) Yeah, it's, um, it's sort of just daydreaming your way through life. Um, it's really, you know, there's a lot of people in the Buddhist movement, and as you know, Buddhism is in, there's different factions of it, of course, like Christianity, but one in particular says that you should rid yourself of all desire because desire is the cause of all suffering. But then there's an interesting passage in Walter Russell's Message of the Divine Iliad where for a whole page he, this creative inspired voice that he wrote down these words, he calls it God, his conscience basically, basically hands the, a harsh judgment against this idea that desire is evil and should be avoided because there would be no universe if the Creator didn't desire to paint the tapestry of space, the lines of light that create physical bodies and such. So, it was sort of a dressing down against that concept that desire is evil, or that, you know, life is something to escape. And that's, that's a dangerous part of this whole movement as well, is that people might feel that, you know, even if you talk about reincarnation, a lot of people have experienced, and there's no one I know who hasn't experienced some degree of suffering in a body on this planet. The loss of a loved one, a serious accident or injury or traumatic experience in a mental or spiritual capacity. But that's not the important thing to really focus on is that injury, but rather, to me, it's those who told the story of how they got over it that inspired me to want to apply that same logic to myself, that same reason, that same ability. And it was like, the message was always clear. If I can do it, you can do it. And if, you know, the greatest people, I'm getting chills right now, the shoulders of the giants we stand on have given us the path out of, you know, suffering, which comes to all of us, but not to get rid of it, just to incorporate it into our lives, to integrate it, because it makes you strong in the end. When you go through these experiences, it gives you sort of a purpose. And as they say, mediocrity sees obstacles, genius sees opportunity. And inside each one of us, we have a genius that's dying to get out, that wants to get out, to express itself through some, you know, through these two hands that we each have. If you're fortunate enough to have them, you know, and I think it's just an important thing not to get too caught up in any one path, as you said, Joel, especially when it comes to just not doing anything, because desire, if it's used correctly in a free will universe, produces balance. The inappropriate use of desire, and I'll just quote Dr. Russell one more time here, is that he said, the leading cause of all suffering, the cause of all human suffering, is the misuse of the sex urge. And the sex urge is really the base of our desire. It's the very thing that is the reason for life reproducing itself. And so, if you misuse that, the effect is unbalanced, which is also synonymous with the word evil. [Speaker 2] (21:17 - 21:43) Yeah, well, because what that brings to mind, to me, is that the one thing that I guess separates the human species from the rest of nature is, you know, our ability to reason. And I think the misuse of the sexual urge is the abandonment of reason. It's a reason which is able to appropriately hone our desire. And I would agree, you know, that that is the cause of all suffering, is the misuse of reason, or the abandonment of reason, to pitch that statement another way. [Speaker 1] (21:43 - 22:22) Yeah, and that's well said. And you could probably find 15 or 20 synonymous sayings that say that same thing. But it's a universal axiom, I think. And the important thing is, again, it's how we use our desire, which comes down to our free will. And we've seen great examples out in the world of the misuse of it, and the human suffering, and the death, and the mutilation to innocence that comes from this misuse. So that, in as much as it's horrifying, is also an incredible teacher. Yeah, for sure. [Speaker 2] (22:23 - 24:05) To harken back to something you said before, like, the greatest moments of my life, and I've seen the highest reflections of myself, have been through me overcoming obstacles related to suffering. Particularly, like, growing up, like, I was super, super comfortable. My dad was first, he was forced to leave Jerusalem, Palestine. He came to Australia, and he ended up building the largest ready-mix concrete manufacturing company in the Southern Hemisphere. So growing up, I was very insulated. I was, you know, very, very comfortable. But I was in a state of existential crisis for much of my teenage years, because there was nothing for me to test against. There was nothing for me to really get feedback against. It's like, living on a cushion is not the key, you know, to human or conscious happiness or evolution. And it wasn't really until 2008, with the global financial crisis, where things really turned on their heads, particularly for my family, that my real awakening shell began to crack open, and my real path began in that way. But I remember vividly, for the longest time, just in this state of existential crisis of like, what's happening? Like, who am I? Like, everything is just pre-created for me, like the highways of life, like, Joel, we're just going to work in the family business for the rest of your life. Everything's dictated for you. Everything's already decided. Like, that is painful. As much material comfort as was available, it was spiritual pain. [Speaker 1] (24:07 - 28:08) That can be a huge motivator, a huge teacher, massive informant of lesson, what you learn from it. And just, if you think of these family dynasty trusts, like Rockefeller's Rothschilds, generational wealth passed on for centuries now. And we see a lot of this hidden hand in these super inside echelon secret societies and such that will never allow a person to follow that existential crisis to its end. They're turned around, and they're forced to stay within the confines of the family unit, because that's how it passes generationally. You can't allow existential crises unless, you know, Paris Hilton or something, but then look how that ends. Anyways, it's an interesting thing, because I think that process of questioning, especially comforts, right? Comfort is what they call also apathy. When man gets too comfortable, he gets apathetic. And so there's nothing in the boundary of his nature, his natural environment, to challenge him. And often, you know, that's when people resort to, I'm going to jump out of an airplane, or let's go to space, or, you know, things that are just so, you know, off the wall. But really, what you're, I think what your mind is really wanting to do is just get uncomfortable. And that's when, to harken back to being alone, for most people, and it was for me in the early on of my own inner awakening, was I was extremely uncomfortable being alone. Even though when I was a kid, I was an introvert, and I didn't like crowds, and I preferred to run alone in the woods. But I had gotten used to the idea that being around other people and having their views at the cost and sacrifice of my own was somehow the responsible thing that a society wanted from you. And so often, I think that we're seeing this in the mobs of today, is that these poor kids are so heavily influenced by the group and the mind, the collective mindset, that they never get the opportunity to really be uncomfortable in a sense of being alone with yourself. Because that's when you start to listen, and you start to, you create this inner dialogue with yourself. And it's the point at which you realize, man, I'm stuck here with myself now. I have to sit here, and so I might as well have a discussion, right? And figure out what is this thing, and you start looking and analyzing your thoughts and thinking about what you're thinking about. And it's sort of, that's when, for me at least, when I would drive two hours to work and back over the course of 15 years, and I would stay in St. Louis and work, but I'd head back after that job was over, several days work. But that long drive was something that forced me to sit alone with myself and ask what was really important to me. And music was always really important. So I felt I could never make it in the music business if I didn't get the right band. So it was always about trying to find other guys to play with, and they can help me get there. But the greatest joy was not in trying to make it in the music business. It was learning to do the instruments myself, recording by myself, and doing all these tracks. And I ended up making a huge archive of music that I still enjoy to this day, and it's all mine. And I know you can relate to that, that you've done your own thing too as a musician, but really it's whatever calling to bring it out, bring out some kind of creative process from inside, that is really one of the most rewarding things. And that can really only come from making yourself uncomfortable enough to be alone, to even know what it is you really want to bring out. [Speaker 2] (28:08 - 29:24) Oh, absolutely, man. I used to drive to work two hours myself every single day as well. And it was on one of those two hour drives that I actually listened to Eurasmos' interview on Unslaved with Sophie, which actually is the catalyst for everything that's being experienced right now. But I think back to that moment in listening to that interview, and I think of everything that's unfolded, what an insane miracle. Back then, I never would have thought, I'll reach out to this guy, he'll reply to me, we'll start a podcast, we'll build a coaching program, we'll build a membership, we'll talk to some of my heroes, some of my mentors that I pinched myself, that I've gotten to speak to over the past couple of years. But you're right, the catalyst was that aloneness, but then acting upon the inspiration that comes. And it really is like, I think back to the hero Joseph Campbell's hero's journey, and that's the underlying foundation of all of this. It's like, we have to go get lost in the wilderness. We have to go discover, we have to go slay the dragon, we have to discover our boon, and then we bring it back. But you have to have that level of aloneness and uncomfortability to really catalyze a journey like that. [Speaker 3] (29:29 - 30:05) I was just going to highlight, I think there's a famous film director who always says that whenever he needs to think of an idea, he just goes on a road trip. And it's true, it's like one way to, I'd say, force yourself to be alone, but you're there, you're doing something that's pretty easy, you're driving, and your mind's allowed to wander and go wherever it goes. And I know I brought it up before, but there were two major life decisions that I made that shift the trajectory of my life when I was on a road trip. And so it's, yeah, I highly, anyone reading, if you're at a crossroads, or anyone listening, if you're at a crossroads in your life, go on a road trip. [Speaker 1] (30:06 - 33:38) That's beautifully said. And I think what we're also discussing here, which is really one of the demarcation lines between just being in a truth movement and really being in a, in a who am I discovery mode, is inspiration. Inspiration is sort of the, because as much as I take part in volunteer fire department activities, I don't quite get the inspiration that I would get if I was working alone. As much as I take part in the job that I work or the chairman of the board position that I occupy for the Russell Foundation, the inspiration doesn't quite hit me in a group as much as it does is when I'm alone. And one of the things I think that you're describing when you're alone on a road trip, and you're listening to your favorite music, right? And you see these views and these vistas and the woods and the nature's going by, and somehow it's reflecting on you, the sound of the music, the visuals, the fact that you're alone and you're enjoying yourself being alone. And that's like that, you're in the spirit, you're in the zone, so to speak. And that's when these great flashes of what you might call illumination or ideas or thoughts or revisiting of past great times in your life, these memories come to you. And I was talking about this with a friend of mine I just visited recently, and he said, well, how do we get more people to pay attention to like, for instance, a Walter Russell or a Victor Schauberg or somebody who's on the fringe of science? He wants to get these scientific great minds more into the mainstream. And I said, well, what is your favorite memories of high school in regards to specifically, who are your favorite teachers? And it's probably only one or two in your entire high school. And he goes, well, there were two in particular. And I said, I had two myself. I go, what was it about them that made you remember them more as the better teachers than the other ones you had? You know, you got seven classes in a day, that's seven teachers. And then, you know, you got your seventh and ninth grade, a new seventh and tenth and so on and so forth. But why these two? And he said, I'm not sure. I go, did they inspire you? He said, that's it. He goes, they inspired me, that's why I remember them. So it's like, to me, it's like, inspiration is a master key to unlocking things within yourself, because you're going into your own spirit. You're in the spirit of your own, you know, makeup and your own psychology. And I love what Michael says about, you know, America being the most anti-psychological country in the world. And that's really to our detriment, because we've got some of the most rich and incredible geniuses that have made life easier for all of us, which then creates the apathy and the comfort that then creates the existential crisis. And it's a big circle, but really inspiration, what inspires you, chase it, chase it down like you're hunting it, because those are the times in your life when you feel these deep inspirations that are going to really help to define you. And they only really happen when you're alone, at least in my experience. [Speaker 2] (33:39 - 33:47) Yeah. Sorry. Oh, there you go. I just love the etymology of, you know, inspired is being in spirit, you know? [Speaker 3] (33:48 - 34:59) Yeah. And you have to be open enough, though, to take that inspiration, do something with it, too. How many people have the flashes of like, oh, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to leave this job, or I'm going to leave, this relationship isn't working for me, or I'm going to take this trip, and then they don't do anything about it. So it's like, Joel could have been like, oh, wow, this episode, I'm going to send this person a message just because but then not do it. You know, and I think that's the difference. Like, do you take action from inspiration? Or if you're in some sort of existential crisis? Do you have the space to take all this information and inspiration to feel your feelings, and then see how those drive you? I mean, this is where we have all the distractions and the self soothing mechanisms and the drugs and the porn, and then this and that, you're not even allowing yourself to feel the reality of your experience, which will then lead you to potentially making a different choice that then could inspire you, which then can have your life go to a whole different direction. And so it's like, with such aversion to pain and discomfort, and if we just took that away, sure, it might be chaotic for a while, but then what will that chaos, what will we produce from that chaos? True freedom is chaos, though, right? [Speaker 2] (35:02 - 35:31) True freedom to me is like, it is the wild west, you know, because freedom and responsibility, they're two axles of the same lever, so to speak. And it's like, if everything's predetermined for us, that's not freedom. If people are just giving you a preset amount of choices, that's not freedom. There has to be danger involved. There has to be the potential for, you know, for malevolent forces to exist, and for you to engage with them, for that to truly be a bedrock of freedom. I don't know if I'm wrong with that, but... [Speaker 3] (35:32 - 35:54) I think it's a dance between opposites, as most things are, because even we talked about before, like, oh, there has to be suffering, and there has to be challenging, but like, things ebb and flow. You know, I could be laying in the middle of the meadow, you know, with butterflies whizzing past me, and the sun shining on me, and like, feeling 100% free, and not feeling like... I think it's both. [Speaker 1] (35:55 - 38:47) I think a large part, too, is the journey. The point of the journey is not to arrive, and when you're trying to figure out your purpose, it might be years before you actually know what it is. And you might have these crutches, like drugs, alcohol, sex, things like that, that are addictions, or, you know, things that are prone to repeat and bring pain to you, but all that is part and parcel to the process of self-discovery. It's those little moments where you're in the car, driving two hours, and you hear a podcast, and you say to yourself, I'm going to reach out. So what is the difference between, you know, had you not held that thought, Joel, you would have never sent the email. So because you held that thought, there was just this one thought, that's it. This entire Here for the Truth platform hinges on one thought, and we have 60,000 to 80,000 one thoughts a day. But because you held that one thought, look at this, look at what has come, right? And it's mutual. You've both probably held one thought, as all of us have, and but that one thought in each of our lives eventually put us on the path to knowing what our purpose is. And that, I must say, for every one of the listeners, for anybody anywhere, it's the same. It's not, you're not going to figure out who you are overnight, or after one podcast, but you can get on the path, and in a few years, things will happen. Nature rewards courage, and things will happen. You'll, the ebb and flow and the crests of those waves and the troughs will produce the things that you need that are called tools from a psychological, emotional, spiritual, physical, and mental level. It'll come to you, you'll be able to use and fashion tools that you need. But eventually, you know, just being on that path, that aware of the fact that you want something better for yourself, you want to know your purpose, and dialogue with the inner creator in you. Learn to walk and talk with God, as Russell would say, or George Washington Carver. And that voice, your dialogue with your own, the ocean of consciousness, if you will, as you be in a drop within it, it'll create the back and forth flow that will inform you as to your next moves, tell you which thoughts to hold. It'll bring thoughts to you that inspire you, and can really manifest and cause a catalyst of things to happen in your life. And when you look back at it, and you say, man, if I would have not done that one thing and just held that one thought, my entire path would have been a completely different thing here. [Speaker 3] (38:48 - 39:17) Yeah, man. It's one of my favorite things to contemplate, you know, about my own life, and even the people I come across. And even in this podcast with first-time guests, we literally ask them, what's your hero's journey? What were your major rites of passage? So with even just the 100, let's say 30 plus episodes we've had, the one thoughts of each individual that led to the next thing, to the next thing, to the next thing, that have brought these amazing manifestations in the world of what people have created. I find that fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. [Speaker 2] (39:18 - 39:33) I mean, for me, I can't help but act upon inspiration. That is the message from God. When something really energizes your mind and your heart to such a degree, like if there's anything I'm acting on in my life, it's that. [Speaker 1] (39:34 - 42:20) That's a great template too, if anybody hasn't tried it. And you can induce inspiration. Again, take a drive, rock out your favorite tune. In the background, Joel and I have been sending tracks back and forth, just messing around a little bit. And he had me so inspired. I'm like, okay, I haven't been in my studio in nine months. I'm going out there and I'm going to drop a backtrack to this track he sent me. And now I got chills again. There it is. See that I'm so excited when it comes to creating things. You'll find too, when you're really inspired about something, and you do it just for the love of the doing of it, it's not the final product that matters. It's the process of creation itself that brings you the most joy. And that's, again, that saying, the point of the journey is not to arrive. Because once you get there, then what? Comfort, apathy, we got everything, there's no need to do anything. So yeah, being in a state of uncomfortableness is not a bad thing. And that's why I say to people who are like, well, I don't want to ever be reincarnated. But to me, it's like, if I was just in the equilibrium where the great creative consciousness dwells, and I never divided my rest or still state or silent state into a motion universe, I would never experience myself. So of course, I'm going to think that, well, for those who think that escaping the wheel of life like Buddhism is somehow a goal, you'll never ever again get to experience a sunrise or an injury. And as much as we don't like the stuff that's bad in this world, that's exactly what gives us the darker colors on the canvas that balances out the brighter colors. And it's the experience, the felt presence of life and living and existing which is the nectar of life, not the cessation of that difficult challenge. And that's why I say to myself and my friends, personal close friends, that we are perfect. Because don't we perfectly fuck up? Every mistake I've made, I've fucked up perfectly. So maybe our idea of perfection is to think that it's completely free, completely free of pain, suffering, thoughts that would otherwise discomfort your mind. But maybe that is perfect at the end of the day. Maybe that's what perfection is, is learning to balance the opposites so that we can have the human experience to begin with. Just a thought. [Speaker 2] (42:21 - 44:16) Oh man, potent thoughts. And look out for some graffiti featuring Christy features down the road. Looking forward to more. Yeah, bro, the demos are bangers for sure. Looking forward to finalizing some of those projects, man. And it's like, when you do something from a state of inspiration, whether it's writing a song, whether it's building a business, whether it's creating a website, when it's not just to achieve comfort or to achieve convenience, you know in those moments that this is the thing which is more likely to return me the most value than anything else. Because you're so in the process. You are one with the process, with what it is you're creating. That creative inspiration is fueling what's coming out. And to me, I don't know, man. That's what life is about for me. It's being able to witness my creative potential manifested outside of me. I'm so in love with that process. Why would I want to not come back? Or why would I consider this world or this existence as secondary? To the person who thinks that this is just a fallen realm and everything I do, say, and act is to achieve some unknowable, unquantifiable afterlife, you've already tainted your current existence. You've already put a red haze or a filter between you and life. You're already starting on one foot. And people will say, oh, I want to find my purpose. Reality is constantly telling you your purpose. It is constantly echoing back to you your purpose. Even if it is just being able to sustain your existence through a creative process, through using your mental and physical faculties, to sustain the fact that you live. I don't know, man. [Speaker 1] (44:18 - 47:37) I couldn't agree more. I think the worst injury a human being can inflict on themselves is a self-inflicted one. And the most damaged people I've ever met are those who have basically given up on their own spirit as being something indomitable that can match any challenge, that can rise to any occasion. It's giving that belief in you as the agent of cause and change as a being that is, let's just say, as a being that is in the process of becoming who they're meant to be. Is it easy to chisel out an image from a block of marble? Ask Michelangelo, right? He said David was in the marble. He could see it. All his job was to chisel it out, to carve it out. And I think that's what each of us face. When we're children, we're like a block of marble, and we start getting chiseled on by our parents, and then we get further chiseled on by society, and we get further chiseled on by teachers, and then by the universities, and then by the news media. And eventually you end up with a block of distorted who knows what, and you look at it in the mirror and you go, I don't even know what that is. And so what you got to do is you got to pick up all the chisel broken off pieces, hold them in your hands and go, wait, I'm going to put that back together. And this one goes here. My parents cut that one off, and my ex-wife took that one. And then you start putting the little pieces that were chiseled off by the outside world back together, and lo and behold, you've got that original block of granite, and it's whole again. And then you begin to chisel out yourself what you want that image to be. And that's the danger of the outside world, in such that you get involved with these so-called movements of whatever it is. It could be truth, fiction, or otherwise. But really, never hand your hammer and your chisel to another person, because they will chisel out something you'll never recognize. And there is a sculptor inside each of us. And in a relationship, your mate is also a sculptor. It's co-sculpting, and you can only learn really truly about yourself by being in a relationship, in my opinion. And that's really important in this day and age. A lot of people, they look at this idea of relationship, and we've been taught to think that, especially in the feminist movement, that women can do it on their own, or that, you know, men going their own way. It's all just me and myself. But the relationship itself is also a form of co-sculpting, and you each relate to one another, and that's when you really learn about yourself. And I know that my Laurie has taught me so much about who I am that I couldn't see, and vice versa. But at the end of the day, we have to hold our own hammer and chisel, and what we make of ourselves is up to each one of us. [Speaker 3] (47:38 - 47:46) I think that's a clip, bro. That's a clip right there. Listen, you hit the nail on the head there, by pun intended. I don't know. Anyways. [Speaker 2] (47:48 - 48:05) Hey guys, just a quick interruption to let you know that if you're seeking awesome like-minded community to support you on your path, and also with amazing cutting-edge education, and a chance to get to hang out with us, then you should definitely check out our membership community, Friends of the Truth. [Speaker 3] (48:05 - 48:20) Yeah, there's really nothing like it on the internet. We have six calls a month. They're incredible calls. We have Telegram. You get to hang out with us, laugh with us, learn, meet people from all around the world. So like Joel said, check it out, friendsofthetruth.co. It's pretty incredible. [Speaker 2] (48:21 - 48:26) Yeah, absolutely. And again, the link is in the brief. Please enjoy the rest of this conversation. [Speaker 3] (48:26 - 50:04) You know, a lot of people don't think they're creative, which is interesting, because first they're an act of creation. But there was a quote I came across a long time ago. It was like, the greatest creative act you'll undertake is the act of creating yourself. And so even that, just creating your own life, and taking the chisel back into your own hand, and going like, no, I'm going to decide my fate. I'm going to decide where I go in life. And you highlight relationship. And I can't even tell you how many times I've said that relationship has been my greatest teacher. I've learned more about myself through partnership. Because when you're by yourself, sure, you can learn, there's some things that you can experience that are amazing. But when you're face to face with someone, and they're mirroring things back to you, you're getting triggered by something. And you go on that process of going, huh, why did I get triggered? Why did my partner say this thing to me? And why am I getting so bent out of shape? Like, what is this about me? And maybe your thoughts start going towards like your mom and your dad or other things. And it's like, that creative growth process continues. It's just completely different than if you were by yourself. And I'm so grateful, you know, for Sophie, for we've been together eight and a half years, we've been married four and a half years. And it's like, man, like, the things I learned being in partnership, you know, the ways I could take a look and reclaim repressed aspects of myself, or what am I projecting onto her? Like, that goes on until the day we exit this world, you know, goes on forever. That's why growth isn't an arrival point. It's a process like you talked about before. And, and I love it. I love the process. It's painful at times. But, you know, it's worth it. [Speaker 1] (50:06 - 52:39) It's beautifully said. You know, I think one thing we're going to do very soon is David Whitehead and his wife, Monica, and then Lori and I are going to do a joint podcast together. And just because we I said this to David in the last podcast I did, he came on the exploration of consciousness. And we talked about everything warrior and like, wouldn't it be fun to get our ladies on to a show with us so that they could tell the world what it's like to be behind two crazy motherfuckers like us, you know, but maybe that's something you guys might think about too. You get you guys got, you know, great balance mates, and it'd be interesting for the world to hear what it's like to have, you know, because because relationship is not an easy thing, man. And don't ever let anybody tell you out there that it is, folks, because it really is like the dream where you're naked in front of the audience. Because the who else better than your mate is going to be able to point out the irregularities, the misgivings, your shortcomings, but also praise you for your actual things that need to be recognized. And when you have a balance mate, according to the Russell teachings, you can multiply your power by the ratio of the cube, which is eight times. So you're literally with a balance mate, you're eight times more powerful than you are working alone. And you look at the balance of the male and female and creation. In all things, it's sacred, it's beautiful. And, you know, every species, whether even asexual, has both sex organs in order to unite to reproduce itself. So it's sort of a, it's a hermetic axiom, it's a universal truism, that male and female are the co-creators, and together they're mirrors of each other. And when those images come together, reproduction is the result. And so much that can be learned from relationships is often overlooked. But, you know, the focus with such a thing as having your mates on with you would be very informative to people who are struggling with, you know, the concept of relationships, and how it can help to better them and just be a real mirror that helps you self-correct in a way, but also to give your best and to learn to take criticism. It's not an easy thing. [Speaker 3] (52:41 - 52:55) No, it's not at all, man. Now based on my calculations- Relationship is death and rebirth. Yeah. My life has definitely improved eight times since I met Sophie, so you're- Walter Russell was right. [Speaker 2] (52:55 - 53:22) Yeah. Hey, do you think the journey is different for men and women? Intrinsically, like I think, you know, I've only got daughters, but if I was to have a son, I know even the guiding process intrinsically would be different in terms of how I would guide my son compared to how I guide my daughters. And I mean, we're talking about the truth-seeking processes as an overarching, you know, theme here. Like, is the journey congruent? [Speaker 1] (53:24 - 56:39) That's a great question. There's certainly differences, you know, we've- natural differences in societal norms, you know, prior to New World Order overarching erasure of male and female as being, you know, these weird terms they use, birthing parents and people. You know, I value the separation between the sexes very much. I think it's a sacred thing. And I think that men and women, and especially if you look at toddlers, let's just say, and I have lots of nieces and nephews and grandkids myself, but they have different interests, different things that make them unique, especially when it comes to their sex. And I think we can nurture those things because it's part and parcel to, you know, you don't need to erase the line between things, sometimes a healthy boundary, and even a border, as I like to say, as a patriot, I appreciate borders, because borders are literally your own skin as a border. And what does the UN want to do? Erase all borders, including the border of your own skin, which houses your soul, you know? And so it's important that sex as a differential manifestation between divine beings being the human race is cherished, honored, and promoted, but also there's much we can learn from each other. And when kids are little, they're not so concerned. There's really no kids I know that at a young age are concerned with the color of other people's skin or the sex of the other person. But there are demarcations of behavior and interests that kids are going to want to, you know, boys in particular, are going to want to do more jocular kinds of things, like ram Tonka trucks together, or, you know, perhaps other things or not. And then on the feminine end of the spectrum, there's more of a gentle, more of a caring and a nurturing. And we can get into the psychology of that, but I'm sure you guys are well aware of it. And how is it, what is the continuity of that process? And where we go from here is really, the best parents, I think, will give the kids the tools they need. I'm with the Montessori school or the Steiner school model, you know, give the kids the tools they need to help bring out what is innately within them already. You know, and each person, whether male or female, has a gift that if it's nurtured and and you work with that gift to bring it out in that child, they're going to become something great. And they're going to be able to wield that like a master wields his art form. And we each have something special to give. But yeah, the difference between boys and girls, men and women is one that's clearly defined by nature. And I think we're still many years of study to really get to the point where we have it all figured out, perhaps centuries still. [Speaker 2] (56:40 - 57:22) Yep. I was just thinking upon the conversation we've had so far, even the journey of going and experiencing aloneness and comfort and convenience, in many ways being antithetical. I think about, I want to provide my daughters with all the comfort in the world. I want them to be satiated in every level possible. And then I think about it because of my own experience, like if I was to have a son, I'd need to keep him on the edge a little bit. I need to keep him on that borderline of uncomfortability when the time came right. But I don't intrinsically feel as though I'm inclined to do that with my daughters, which is just interesting to contemplate now. [Speaker 1] (57:24 - 59:15) Well, there's nothing more fierce than a daddy's love for his daughters. I've got one myself and you want to protect them, you want to give them all that you can. But sometimes, at least for me, and I can only speak personally to how I worked with my daughter when she wanted to follow me to Virginia and she read one of Leo Russell's books, God Will Work With You, Not For You. And she's like, Dad, I want to go there and I want to see some of this stuff. And it turns out as we were getting the museum built and things were coming together that there's positions available, you know, that I needed somebody to come in and fill this position. Well, I wasn't going to make it easier because number one, I don't want to be accused of nepotism, right? That I just saw the president's daughter got hired, you know. So I made her work voluntarily for a year as an intern. And I said, this isn't going to be easy. You're going to need to show up. I'm going to evaluate you. But it's going to remove this idea of, you know, I'm just putting you in there because you're my daughter. I want to see what you can do. I'm going to challenge you. And it's going to be difficult. And it was. And she had to learn QuickBooks. She had to learn accounting. She had to learn how to order books and do, you know, inventories and all kinds of things. But she was up for the challenge. And we had a couple rough spots, you know. And you have to have that father-daughter talk. You know, you can quit or you can keep going, which do you want to do? But, you know, so just the fact that you, in your upbringing of your children, if you let them know that life has challenges, but that's okay because that's part of life, you know, that's an important lesson that I think we can depart to our children, to each other and to ourselves. We'll learn in the process. [Speaker 2] (59:16 - 59:20) Yeah. Matt, did you say before you have grandkids? That's blowing me away. No. [Speaker 1] (59:21 - 1:00:46) Yeah. 11 and 8. They're a boy and girl, boys 11, girls 8. And they're just incredible. You know, I think the world of them, they think I'm crazy grandpa Matt, you know, but when they come over, one of the things I do that just helps inspire them is they'll help me do tasks around the house. I'm not the kind of grandparent that just buys the grandkids something to give to them just because it's, you know, here's this thing that you didn't work for. I like to instill a work ethic. So things I need done, picking trash up on the side of the highway, stacking wood, doing stuff like that, they come and help me. So when they come there, they're like, oh, let's help grandpa. What do you need done, grandpa? Let's do some stuff. And we'll start doing chores around the house. And then I pay them a little pittance, right? Just, you know, a few bucks here and there. But by the end of the weekend, they get to go home with 20 bucks a piece. But they also get the experience that they had to work for it. But they're learning in the work. And they're also learning that work is valuable. And so when you teach that you can impart that to your child, they'll become more aware of the sense of responsibility when it comes to work and actually learn to like working. Because it takes work, whatever you're going to do in this world, you have to work for it, especially unfolding something within. Otherwise, you're just working for someone else. [Speaker 3] (1:00:47 - 1:00:53) Yeah. Someone just sent me something on Instagram. It was some study or whatever was done. [Speaker 2] (1:00:54 - 1:00:55) The Instagram study. Here we go. [Speaker 3] (1:00:55 - 1:02:15) Yeah, the study. It was a study, but it made sense. And it also relates to what you're talking about here is that like children who take part in like household chores and do things like they become more well-adjusted, they become more successful, et cetera, et cetera, as opposed to just like having everything done for them. And also back to what you were saying before, Joel, you mentioned timing's important. Yeah. I think in the early years, those formative years, just a child having a sense of safety is important. You don't want to challenge a kid at two years old, like, no, you got to pick up all these rocks now. You got five minutes, kid. We took a three-day vision quest. No food. Yeah, that's it. I'm throwing you into the pool. You see black bears in the woods, but you got to find a way to survive. I know you're four, you'll figure it out. Come on, son. I didn't raise mama, didn't raise no pussies. So yeah, like I think those early years, especially, you know, we talk a lot about the nervous system. That's a little bit more of my background. I was like, where can you feel safe and regulated early on and feel comfortable in that kind of nervous system sense? But then once you get to an age, you get a little older, how do you bring in the challenges and how do you learn from that and how do you build resilience? I think that's key. Now, again, I'm not saying age zero to seven, you put a bubble wrap on a kid, but I think you know what I'm trying to say. [Speaker 2] (1:02:16 - 1:02:58) Yeah, man, totally. I mean, I even just think back to, I guess, Ayn Rand's objectivism and her sense of objective morality, you know, and for her, life begets life. Survival is the basic, rational, selfish need. And, you know, man as a species is the only species that can act against his own life, that can act against his own moral nature in that sense. Plants and animals won't think twice about doing what needs to be done to survive, about working and growing in order to survive. So she would say that not working or not acting responsible is evil because it is anti-life, it is anti-mind. [Speaker 1] (1:03:00 - 1:04:08) Yeah, and there's, you know, if you were to put any bubble wrap around nature, it would die. So one of the examples I like to use for the grandkids is if those little baby birds in that nest didn't work to learn how to fly, if they don't work to eat on their own, you know, of course the baby bird being little, the parent, the mother bird, or the father bird feeds it, you know, forcefully. But at some point, there comes the day when the bird has to leave the nest. And that's the analogy of the little kid leaving the house, growing up to 18, 19, 20, whatever, and then leaving the house and going out on your own, learning to fly, as it were. And that's, you know, we don't see the emphasis on that as much these days. And so you hear the stories, the 35-year-old is living in mom's basement because mama bird never kicked him out of the nest and taught him how to fly. So then you end up with a Norman Bates at 50, whose mom is a corpse in the attic, dead for four years. [Speaker 2] (1:04:08 - 1:04:15) That's the dude with no profile picture on Twitter calling Matt Presti a shill. Right. [Speaker 1] (1:04:16 - 1:05:21) Or the alter accounts asking for money from our followers who we never DM. But yeah, it's an interesting side show, side chat on that whole topic of psychology. But really, you know, the main responsibility, I think, you said it to your esmos, we got to provide safety for our children. I asked my mom once, what are the three things a woman wants most in a man? And she said, love, faithfulness, and security. And she's 87 years old, bless her heart. And my mom and dad were married all their lives. She's still alive. And that was very important to me, because in the same way, you can apply that to your family. You want to give your family love. You want to be faithful to your family to uphold your responsibility. And that's a large word there, provide as a provider as a man does. And also to provide security so that they can have, you know, that kind of freedom to grow up. It's an interesting thing. [Speaker 2] (1:05:21 - 1:05:41) Yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot, you know, my role as provider. And like, I don't think that we often consider enough that, you know, we need to provide simply just beyond financial means. Are you providing emotional safety? Are you providing emotional security? Are you providing, you know, on that level as well? Because that's ultimately what it means to provide too, you know? [Speaker 3] (1:05:42 - 1:06:26) Just being present too, as a man, because if you've done your inner work, and if you're in touch with many different parts of yourself, if you're a partner, if your wife's having an experience, you're not like, no, no, it's okay. You don't need to feel that. It's okay. Don't cry. Don't cry. But if you know those deep parts of you, you can hold space for that. Whether it's with another person, it doesn't have to be your partner, just in relationship. It's the people that are rigid and repress a lot that don't have the capacity to be present and to hold space for another individual that's going through a challenging, difficult experience, or experiencing rage, or experiencing deep vulnerability and sadness. Like, you have to know that within yourself so you can be present within another, at least in a real, connected, genuine way. [Speaker 1] (1:06:27 - 1:08:33) That's so well said, right there, Erasmus. So well said, because empathy, right? It's empathy, being able to feel what other people feel. And I choose that word over compassion for a reason, because compassion's also synonymous with the word pity. I don't like to pity people. I wouldn't want to be pitied, but I would like if somebody understood how I was feeling about something, or at least tried to... And they're very close words. I mean, I'm not trying to be a word Nazi here, but empathy is such that you really, from experience, maybe you're trying to really feel what a person's going through, or how they're communicating to truly listen. And, you know, compassion is this more of an Eastern ideal where, oh, if we just, you know, move the worms out of the way before we dig a hole in the ground, we'll be closer to God or something. But as you said, the experience of providing these different kinds of circles of support for the people we love, the children we raise, are very related to ourselves. And that support has to be there in us for ourselves. You cannot give away that which you do not first possess. So if we're not supportive of ourselves, of our own dreams, our own ideals, how can we possibly have empathy or empathize with others that are... So that's why I think, in a lot of part, back to the beginning of this, you know, what we see in these truth movements are a lot of people that are still in a somewhat collectivist mindset who have not really even begun to discover what it is that they really want to do with their lives. But I can be part of the Flat Earth community and champion that, and still not know who I am. But somehow that doesn't really equate to what I consider to be a truth movement, is looking at the naked truth of yourself. [Speaker 2] (1:08:33 - 1:08:36) Someone's going to clip that and say, Matt Presti said he's part of the Flat Earth community. [Speaker 1] (1:08:39 - 1:10:17) Well, I was when I was thinking flatly. No, I'm just kidding. 13, 14 years old, everything was flat back then. But, you know, you get more dimension as you grow older in your personality and your ideas, things, you know, the sky becomes wider, the view of life becomes bigger, fuller, the richness of your experience becomes more tasty. You begin to like things that you hated as a kid, because, you know, you're completely 180 on some things when you get older. It's like Thomas Jefferson received a letter from John Adams once, and John Adams was going on about, he said, every young man from the age of 13 to 17 should be a liberal, but from the age of 18 onward, he should be a conservative. And I think what he's trying to say there is that, yeah, you've got to have a wild streak in you, but at some point, you've got to be responsible for the family you're raising. So, just those two little things, but of course, it's a balance, right? I would say I'm a liberal conservative, if I was to have an actual political title, but that's an awful wide range of things. But more or less, I think the best ways that I can support the family structures that I'm a part of is to be the best me that I can be. And then in that effort, I will be able to help others to the best of my ability, and what will be the best help that they can receive. [Speaker 2] (1:10:20 - 1:10:21) I agree. [Speaker 3] (1:10:21 - 1:10:46) Yeah. I would actually bring something up, because I'm curious, you know, when we introduced you, and you're bi, you say you're a patriot. And that's a word that I feel like has tons of connotations with it. So, I'm just curious, can you just kind of share your view of that word, and how that word is inspiring to you? And what does it mean? I know you mentioned about the border thing, but I'm just curious in general. [Speaker 1] (1:10:46 - 1:14:26) Sure. I put a post on Telegram where I talked about that. And again, I touched on the border thing, because I think basically borders language culture are by some accounts, Michael Savage wrote a book about that by the same name, not that I agree with his particular points of view. I don't really agree with anybody 100%. I'll agree up to 90, but I always leave 10% space for human error, you could say. And that's just from my own experience. But really, I think love for one's country, and what I think about America. And there was a time when I worked for the NFL, for the St. Louis Rams, seven seasons, and I never stood for a national anthem. I did not want anything to do with the Iraq War. I did not want anything to do with the Bush administration. When he came to the Trans World Dome, and everybody stood and applauded, I sat. You know, I'd want nothing to do with that whole political farce, you know. But what changed my mind later on was, it sort of started around 2014 or 15. After eight years of Obama, who I also knew was a New World Order Luddite, right? These guys are all part of the cabal. Whatever you want to say about Trump, it was the turnaround where people in my family started calling me and going, Matt, the news media lies, just like you said. The news media is full of shit, and they're all liars. And I said, well, I've been saying this for 15 years, where have you been? You know, it's like, for a lot of people, that was a wake up. But when it comes to patriotism, what was really important to me was, what is the nature of this country called the United States? And it's founded on the ideals of liberty, and freedom, and those values that it affords man, which is the right to pursue his own happiness. The first time in history, a small group of people on the earth told the European elite, the monarchies of the world, the papal, the papacy, the pope, and all his henchmen, and the whole entire Jesuit army, that we don't have to do what you say anymore. And just that one act, I think, was what created the fertile soil for genius to rise up in this country. And that's why we saw the kinds of things we did. I know America has been incorporated as of 1871. I know that D.C. is a corporation. Our birth certificates call us all numbers on a screen. But at the end of the day, it's the value system behind being able to live in a country to where you can pursue your own happiness. And it's not a perfect pursuit by any means. We've got politics that are just off the wall. But really, a patriot to me is someone who defends freedom and liberty against their government. And that's why I chose to be part of that, because anything that infringes on the rights of man, as Thomas Jefferson said, I will declare eternal hostility toward all forms of tyranny over the minds of men. And I think that if we're going to be the best human beings we can be, we've got to. It's mandatory that we must have the freedom over our own minds. And that's really what I think being a patriot is to me. [Speaker 2] (1:14:27 - 1:15:11) Yeah, man, I hear you. And you're right. It did give birth to the greatest genius, the greatest innovation, the greatest inventions we've ever seen. It was the first time we ever saw any kind of format of a capitalist society, the freedom for men to think, to create value. We never had that before. What do you say to people within this movement or that might hold the mindset that the Founding Fathers were all just Freemasons and that's all corrupted in its own way as well. And they were just a group of men that also decided to dictate to everyone else. [Speaker 1] (1:15:12 - 1:18:25) Well, what is the free? Would we have ever seen the airplane? Would we have seen the automobile or electricity? And if it was really just a takeover, why did any of this stuff happen? Why aren't we all in chains? And I don't mean pharmacological chains like Adolphus. Adolphus Huxley would talk about where it's voluntary. People prefer that kind of, as R. Michael would say, freedom. People are terrified of freedom, right? It's one of those things. But, you know, the Founding Fathers, I am actually staying with a descendant of Thomas Stone, and he was one of the Founding Fathers here in Virginia. And it's an interesting thing because a lot of them lost their lives. In fact, the majority of them. And even though they were Freemasons, it just shows you that Freemasons can also disagree that at some point in the past, not all lodges were under the guise of the Blue Lodge of London or the UK. In fact, the first shot of the Civil War was fired in front of the Masonic Lodge on the 33rd Parallel in Charleston, South Carolina. And it was the more truthful version of the Civil War was that it was over the lodges all being umbrellaed under the control of the lodge in Britain. And that's what really was the cause of that war. Now, there's different interpretations, but I really think that even the Masons, who were many cousins to the king and to the royalty and to the oligarchies of Europe, told their own brethren of the organization, we don't agree with—what is it? Benjamin Franklin said, the main reason we went to war was over the taxation of our currency. We did not want King George taxing our colonial script because he borrowed money and got himself and his government in debt to the Rothschild bankers of England and Europe. And so they wanted autonomy from that. And again, to me, it's just an unheard of proclamation to declare to all the authorities of the world that we don't have to do what you say. And so Masons can disagree. Not everybody is at the higher levels, but at some point, I think you have to look at these little tidbits of different facts that speak to the fact that men are capable of not only being a Mason, but also choosing destiny for themselves. And they're not one or the other. It's not, well, if they're Masons, they're bad. Or if they're not Masons, they're good. Because I know plenty of scumbags who are not Masons. And some Masons who—I don't know a lot of Masons, honestly. I'm not one myself. But just because you have a title of any title doesn't mean you're good or bad. It's really, you have to weigh each one singularly. [Speaker 3] (1:18:26 - 1:18:42) Yeah. I mean, you hit the nail on the head there, especially in this truth movement. Everyone just wants to be thrown in a box. They see a post, they read an article, everything that person ever says and comes out of their mouth is evil now because I just made this one association with them. It's humanile in thinking. [Speaker 1] (1:18:43 - 1:20:01) Yeah, and it's, you know, I like to say there's a process I do when I come upon a subject—and this is one thing that I disagree with academia—how many degrees are in a circle? 360, right? So you go to school for four years, and you get one degree. Big fucking deal. Okay, so there's a subject, right? And what I like to do, especially if I'm coming to it newly, freshly, I'll walk around it 360 degrees before I even make a decision. And there's some things that I've been walking around for 20 years, and I still haven't made a decision about it. You know, are Masons totally evil? I look at the Founding Fathers, and I'm like, well, look at this country. And we're still being attacked by international interests, you know, through our own CIA. Is it wholly evil? I don't think so, but I can't say it's wholly good either. So some things that you just have to study. Walk around them 360. Try to get the biggest holistic view you can. And you may never decide what position you're going to take on a subject, even in your entire lifetime. But the point is to get as many degrees as you can, you know, of view, so that you can have a better understanding at the end of the day. [Speaker 3] (1:20:02 - 1:20:05) I only get 33 degrees of everything that I look at. [Speaker 1] (1:20:06 - 1:20:08) I knew you were in the club, man. [Speaker 2] (1:20:11 - 1:20:20) Oh, you're Asimov's exposed. And you retort to that, or you know, let it land? Wait, what'd you say? I said you're being exposed as a Mason. [Speaker 3] (1:20:20 - 1:20:26) Are you going to retort that publicly or no? Look, I'm a human being. There are good parts to me, and there are maybe not so good parts to me. [Speaker 1] (1:20:26 - 1:20:31) I'll see you guys down at the Lodge Supper later. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, mate. [Speaker 2] (1:20:33 - 1:20:45) That's hilarious. Um, what, like, we hear this phrase often, and I saw you post it the other day. I'm wondering if we can simplify it. What do you mean by God is mind? [Speaker 1] (1:20:47 - 1:26:02) Well, I'm borrowing from Russell there, but I would throw a whole bunch of synonyms in into that definition of what God is. And I certainly don't mean God 1.0, an angry white guy on the side of a mountain killing all the firstborns with bolts of lightning. But the 2.0, the hermetic definition from a Russell or from a greater mind who would know, you know, like a Whitman, perhaps, or Emerson. So God is mind, is consciousness, is stillness, is silence, is equilibrium, is balance, is beauty, is rhythm. God is between the notes, as Beethoven might say. It's the space, the silence between the notes. When the Russells laid out their home study course, they did double spacing, and they emphasized the reason that they did was so that you would notice the space and the stillness and the silence between the lines of the words that they were conveying. So in other words, noticing what doesn't move, noticing the stillness, understanding that God is consciousness itself, which is not material. And you can point to your arm, you can touch your arm, you can touch your leg, now touch your consciousness. Can't do it. It's not material. And that's the hard problem of consciousness. They can't find it in the brain. You know, might as well be in the big toe, because they're so far away. Number one, calling it hard emphasizes that it's matter, it's physical matter. It must be a physical thing that's measurable. But there's no way to measure consciousness. And they have these intelligence tests, but that's repeating and remembering. It's not really knowledge. You know, and how do these ideas—you didn't get the knowledge from a book or the inspiration from a book. You should give Yerasimos an email, which led to 136 episodes, is it? I think it's 134. Yep. This came from your own consciousness, which is that—that's what I consider to be God divinity, is that mind of which you are a part of. And to the degree that you work with it, moment to moment, you can crystallize your own knowledge into the forms of matter. You're literally crystallizing your thought into matter, which is a podcast, which is a painting, which is, you know, fixing up the car or whatever it is you're doing, cooking a meal. That's your mind interacting with your physical body. And so, again, I think man has built idols after idol after idol after idol. We put human beings between us and God. We put religions between us and God. We put politics between us and our own consciousness. And that's why, again, go back to the beginning, and we talk about being alone. What are you being alone with but your own consciousness, which in a way is being alone with God. You're communing with the Holy One within you, saying, What am I here to do? What is my purpose? What do I want to do with this consciousness that is mine? And some people choose to do nothing with it. And that's where the term mediocrity comes from. You know, you just do what the world expects of you, and you've lived an empty life, never having any goals or desires for your own self. I mean, we kind of get one shot here. So, my cheerleading for the great minds that say, do something with this body that you've got. It's a gift from God, from the big consciousness, the big ocean, to your little drop. Do something with it that'll leave a mark, so that your epitaph reads that you lived your purpose, as opposed to, you know, this guy lived a meaningless, purposeless existence. And the fulfillment that comes from that—no, it's not easy. It's going to be full of pain, chocked with injury, chocked with upset, suffering, but that's not all that happens in life. It also is chocked with happiness, with love, with vulnerability, with chills, which I'm getting again for the third time—man, three times in one podcast. That's a new one. And just, you know, getting to live what your soul's desires are that are in balance with the rest of the world. You're going to experience the greatest joy and the greatest suffering all together at once, but it's never going to be just one or the other. It'll be degrees of each. And as Khalil Gibran said, the greatest characters are seared with scars, or the most massive characters are seared with scars. So, to the degree of our suffering that it has cut a chasm into our heart is to the degree that we can fill that with love. And so, I'm a firm believer of, you know, opposites are not evil. They're simply something to bring into balance, and in that balance comes the great gift of living. [Speaker 3] (1:26:03 - 1:26:25) Yeah. Well said, man. Even in this context that you're just talking about, you hear these phrases, non-dualism and dualism. Like, where does this fall in your understanding? You know, because there are those that are like, oh, don't listen to the non-dualists, and we live in duality, but then there's those that just focus on the non-dualism element. And so, I'd love for you to maybe elaborate on that a bit. [Speaker 1] (1:26:26 - 1:28:45) Yeah, sure. A lot of my work is pointing out that we live in a triality. I'm a non-dualist, but not a monolist. I'm a trialist. We're going through trials. The mind centers the dual nature of reality, and together they add up to three. And three is pretty much the magic number. And if you watched Sesame Street as a kid, I'm dated. Guys, I know it. I'm dated. It's a magic number, but a man and a woman and a child is three. The Father and Mother God and man is three. Light, dark, and the twilight between is three. Three is just an incredible thing. It's really, we do live in a triality because our mind… When I studied ninjutsu when I was a kid, the triangle of life was big. That was the spiritual tenet. You start at the physical, which is the bottom left of the triangle. You move to the bottom right, which is the mental. And the balance between those is the capstone of spirituality, and the key is to get to the center of that triangle, to balance the triangle of life, which is your own life. None too much, none too excess, and know thyself is also another form of that. And there's a third one. But yeah, triality is the word I choose to use because it's so fitting. The door opens and it closes, but what does the door move on? A jamb that doesn't move. The tire moves, but what does it move on? It moves on an immovable shaft. And so everything that we can point at in the physical world moves on something that does not move. The seesaw, right? The fulcrum doesn't move, so that adds up to three. And that just does away with dualism, it does away with the monoism, but out of that still point, or that center, that God, or that consciousness comes the dual nature, but those together again are three. And that's just how I look at it. Very Russell-esque, that mindset too. [Speaker 3] (1:28:46 - 1:28:47) Thanks, man. [Speaker 1] (1:28:48 - 1:28:48) Got it. [Speaker 2] (1:28:50 - 1:29:09) It brings to mind one of the verses from the Dao De Jing, one gives birth to the two, two gives birth to the three, three gives birth to the many. There you go. Yeah. It's almost like that friction in the middle, right? But the friction is what animates everything else. Without the friction, you can't really know the two opposites. [Speaker 1] (1:29:10 - 1:29:55) Right. And so we get the same with electricity. You've got a wire and the field of electricity moves around that wire in a spiral way. So the immovable divides itself or carries the current that spins around it. And all of our DNA spirals spin around in a movable still point. And we're bounded by that same still point. So centered inside every cell and corpuscle of matter within our own being is a still point, which is also bounded by a still point. And that's pretty much the Russell science right there. And it's the interchanging between these polarities that produces the magnificent play we call life. [Speaker 2] (1:30:00 - 1:30:40) Matt Presti, very, very profound conversation. In Australia, we call you Presto. That'll be your nickname in Australia. Presto. I've heard that before. Man, just always such a pleasure to sit with you and bask in the wisdom, which you have to offer us and to all our listeners. Can't tell you how grateful I am, man, for our connection, for our back and forths privately. I consider you a mentor of mine in many ways. It's an honor to be alive at the same time as you, man. [Speaker 1] (1:30:43 - 1:31:29) I'm hearing more of your name in different parts and corners of the web. So that's really awesome. You guys bring a great wealth of knowledge and experience between yourselves and your wives and your families. And what you have to offer is uplifting. It's really, it's incredible. Keep up the great work, you guys, because I've got a few go-to podcasts, Unslaved's one, you guys are one. I get my daily intelligence from, you know, I spend five to 10 minutes on news sites, and I'm good to go. And then it's on to learning more stuff. So you guys are doing a great job. It's great to see you multiply your work together and continue on that mission because the world needs voices like this, especially today. Thank you. You got it. [Speaker 2] (1:31:30 - 1:31:40) I guess just in closing, is there anything that you're currently working on or any way you'd like to direct our audience to be able to support you or dive into, you know, some of your latest creations? [Speaker 1] (1:31:40 - 1:32:52) Yeah, I've got 10 podcasts now since my reboot. The Exploration of Consciousness, which I call tech, the tech podcast. I hope to get you guys to come on maybe a month or so from now down the road we can have some discussions. And I want to do panels and things like that. But each podcast is sort of approach all its own. I try to do a lot of research, subjects I'm interested in. And the title really is just the Exploration of One Man's Consciousness into the subjects that I find interesting. And I like to share that and hope that people get something out of it. But if you're to ask me, what is my goal in all of this? And what would I hope to see the most? Come from all these podcasts and all the things that all of us do would be an end to all the podcasts. Because that means we will have succeeded in helping everybody to learn to become the best human being they can be. And we won't need the podcast anymore. We can get on with creating masterful artwork for the next 50 millennia and start exploring space together. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:32:53 - 1:33:21) I love it, man. Guys, go check out Matt Presti's podcast. We'll drop the link in the brief below wherever you're watching or listening to this right now. I consider Matt to be one of the utmost reliable and cutting-edge thinkers. So the conversations there, I've got no doubt, would be highly valuable. And thanks for listening and we'll see you next time. Take care. Transcribed by https://otter.ai