Sam Zagar The Human Design Experiment

[Speaker 1] (0:00 - 0:17) So Rise Above the Herd was a significant turning point for me. I guess I'd been playing small, hiding in the shadows, flying under the radar a little bit these last few years. And it really gave me the courage and the confidence to come out and stand fully in my light, speak my truth. [Speaker 3] (0:18 - 0:33) Thank you, Joel and Erasmus, for creating Rise Above the Herd. If I hadn't done this course, I wouldn't be focusing on myself, building my self-esteem, learning new skills. And the cherry on top is being connected to like-minded individuals who are all amazing creators and now my friends. [Speaker 1] (0:59 - 5:42) so you can navigate your life with increased clarity, discernment, and make high-quality decisions. The life paths of over 60 students across six rounds have now been deeply impacted by Rise Above the Herd. If you'd like to join the next round, head to riseabovetheherd.co or hit the link in the brief to learn more and claim your spot. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the Here for the Truth podcast. This is episode 139. And as always, we have an incredible guest with us here today, Sam Zagar. And today we're exploring human design. She's a projector with only the channel of surrender. She specializes in breaking down the complex human design language into everyday vocabulary so that you can assimilate this information into your cells with ease. She's here to guide you to your signature life by asking you the questions that really matter and providing you with support as you discover the answers. Sam, thank you so much for being here with us. Yeah, thanks for having me. It feels great to be invited. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I guess one way I'd like to kick this conversation off is your journey initially in regards to stepping into human design. Like how did you come into this knowledge and what really led you here? Oh, well, that's a huge, huge question. You want the way... You want the long or the short of it? Well, we've got time. The medium version maybe. I don't know. Okay. Medium version is very classic projector as in I'm always trying to understand the world around me. And so it kind of was like system hopping. So maybe at first it was just talking to people and then thinking that was going to be something like counseling or something like therapy or social work or psychology. So you go through a lot of typical learning directions, but none of it really fit me. It was like everything that I was learning wasn't the way that I was supposed to do things. And one day I was in a pretty, I don't know, tough spot. Not a great job, not a great life, not a lot of direction. And I heard a podcast with human design and there was just something... It was like this thing went off that said, you have to dig here. And maybe it's my first color consecutive determination. I go hunting for things, one thing at a time. And so there was this hunt for there's something here. Like the word like got into my skin. Like what is this thing that they're talking about? And then I looked at my birth chart. No way I thought I was going to be a projector because everybody wants to be a manifester at first glance because we're exposed to the phrase manifesting all the time. I didn't think it was a good thing to be a projector until I realized what the projector slide was. I don't know if you guys have heard about this, but it's like basically once you start to hit your signature as a projector success, there's this thing that happens where you realize your life could have been so much easier than you made it the whole time. If only you didn't try so hard to be what you're not in particular, a generator. So stop trying to generate. And suddenly there were these, there was just this ease that I didn't understand. Like it sounds lame. I hate when people say cheat codes and hacks and stuff like that, but it's, that's exactly what it was. I felt the same thing too on my end, like learning about my strategy as a generator, learning certain things that was just like, oh, I don't need to do the shoulds. I can focus on the things that I want to do that light me up, that excite me that, and things started changing from there. There's something about human design that speaks to really weird core parts of us that we didn't think other people knew about. And usually I find that the resistance first comes from the permission to be something you thought you'd never be allowed to be. And I was so fascinated that a projector was here to learn. And this core of me always wanted to be in school, always wanted to learn, but I have no idea how to have a job while I'm studying in university. Like I, I'm just so curious if you could just leave me alone to learn about the world, like that's as happy as I'd ever be. But of course, I'm not going to think that's a possibility for me. Like, that's not how we're, it's not how we're raised. And suddenly I stepped into a world where it was like, literally, all you're supposed to do, Sam, is learn. You're supposed to study your system and guide the other, study your system and guide the other. And I've never felt so fucking good in my life or had so much access to the things that I need. So here I am. [Speaker 2] (5:42 - 5:45) How freeing, how freeing, yeah, that's amazing. [Speaker 1] (5:46 - 30:14) Sam, I wanna, like we've spoken about human design on this podcast before, but like we've never really addressed, like for those that are completely new here, like what is human design? Oh, I love this. I love this because I don't tend to go in the same direction as a lot of people. The most common answer that you get is people always reference astrology and they usually say it's some kind of like amplified version of astrology, but my background has a lot more to do with biology and quantum physics was, I think the core of what really got my attention, probably because it seemed too complex. There was something so complex that I kept wondering, like, where is this really, where's the truth of this? There's so many different kinds of these systems out there. And a lot of the times people think they're smart because they're complex and they just don't understand them, but it doesn't mean that they work well. And so with human design, there are these complexities that honestly a lot of people don't talk about. I think they hear about human design and they get really excited without knowing kind of the core of what everything is. And for me, the core is the neutrino. If you don't talk about the neutrino, there is no human design because this is the thing that makes it happen. And so when we're talking about subatomic particles moving through your body and leaving little messages based on how they've interacted with certain things you have activated in you, we all perceive information very differently, which is how we have all these different experiences on the planet. The neutrino is, well, the sun makes it. There's so many of them that penetrate us constantly. We have different gate activations. A neutrino moves through you, ties into a gate, sends a message. It's very much like there's such an abstract quality. And I know right now that this doesn't make a lot of sense to people. You talk about something that they've never heard about that doesn't make sense. They don't know how to follow this conversation. I'm going, the sun blasts out these tiny little things that you can't see to move through your body that acts as this very cool filter system so that you get information in a very different way from other people do. And how you interact with that is very personal. I love it. We're ready to geek out. This is great. Well, no, but this is the one thing that I think has drawn me to your work is like, especially on Instagram, social media, you really speak about human design in a very unique way. And I just really appreciate everything that you have to offer. Sometimes I find it a little challenging because I feel like my own definition takes me for a ride. When you're only a design of a transmitter, the one channel, I have one activation in me, one channel, and what it's supposed to do is it's supposed to take language and spit it out the way that other people need to hear it. So when someone says like, how do you describe human design? I'll be honest. It's a little bit overwhelming because my brain wants to get involved and my brain is not part of my channel. I don't think about the answer to this. I think, okay, I'm supposed to naturally, once invited, give back the information that they need. And yet it's usually very relevant to the person inviting the support out. So I'm going to say human design, likely the way that I think you want to talk about it, not so much the way that I think the audience needs to hear about it. And that's something that's really tricky in my work, is if I think about how the audience needs to hear it, it's such a fast slope to telling them what I think they want to hear, which takes away how I'm supposed to talk entirely. So I guess, because people are going to be curious, like how did this system come into existence? Well, that has a lot of interpretation to it. And I will say the best answer is always going to be the story that Raw tells. But I personally, I enjoy reading the story. Well, I like reading books more than I like watching the movies after, so that's probably why. But I really like reading the story of Raw. See, people use the word channel, they use the word download, and none of those words are accurate enough. And Raw has the gate of shock. Like the gate of shock is a huge part of what brought us human design. We had a man who withstood the shock of the experience, let's call it an experience. And in its darkest expression, Raw talks about it being a possession and an energetic rape for eight days. It's a very, very intense experience of being completely taken over by a force. And when we say forces, if you're a pure individual, pure individual circuitry, you'll know what I mean when I say the forces. They're things that if you're not an individual, you don't get to interact with. And Raw, who brought us human design, has pure individual circuitry. He can interact with forces that I can't. And he interacted with one, and he wrote down, basically it was like a possession of writing things down, writing down these formulas for us. And after that, that's how much content we had to work with. And we've taken at this point, since 1987 until now, we're almost at 40 years of processing eight days worth of information. And it goes so, so deep. And Raw did not talk about, he didn't talk about his experience right away because he thought he was crazy. Of course he thought he was crazy. For years, he thought he was crazy. And it wasn't until the neutrino test of the Hadron Collider that validated the neutrino that Raw realized, I'm not crazy because it was in alignment with the information he got in his experience. So suddenly he was willing to talk about it. And their ego, his ego brought this out, willing to talk about it. He was willing to shock us and bring humanity. So on the other side of the gate of shock is love of all humanity. If you really love humanity, you're going to shock the fuck out of them with something like this. And it did only some of us, but yeah, that's also a fascinating thing. Only some of us, only 4% of 4% ever get to the point of realizing what they can be. So a neutrino pretty much is, it's created by the sun and then it passes through things and takes information and then passes through other things and drops off information. Is that like one easy way? Think about it like shopping in a sign, shopping in a gate, shopping through a planet. So we have all of these different filters we're exposed to. When we look at the Mandela, there's us in the middle, but then we see the gates of the hexagram. We see the signs that we're in. We see the planet that something moves through. Like my son has gate five in Sagittarius, but it's a 5.3 and it makes my personality and that's attached to my strategic mind and my innocence motivation. And so when the neutrino programmed, well, my son's sign, who I think that I am, it had to, it went from sun through Sagittarius, through gate five, through, and that's a very, very specific programming for my dominating personality type. When did you get into human design? It was like, because you've gone really deep, really fast, I feel. Is that true? I did go really, really deep, really fast. And the reason for that is because I don't read anything that's not source material. I do not study human design outside of Raw's source material. And a lot of that is because I'm a third line. So I learned very quickly what doesn't work. And what didn't work was my entry point to human design. My entry point to human design was very, very, it was a cross of pop HD and angry first gen students. And so it wasn't, it was pulling me in, but it wasn't sinking into me the way that real source material would. And so I think the first thing I had to realize was just because someone uses the frame human design, it doesn't mean we're all talking about the same system. And that really messed me up in the beginning because I just went on Amazon and ordered human design books. But I learned after reading all those books, they have different information and not all of it is accurate. And some of it is so inaccurate that when you try and take your information to the next level, it doesn't fit. The foundation is wrong. And so when I would try and go to the next level with the wrong foundation, well, I started to feel embarrassed that I was putting things on the internet that might not be true. So I dug a lot more into source material and I didn't have a ton of money at the time. Like I was very, very, very low income when I started all of this. I didn't invest in classes or courses or I only bought a couple of books and really did not have much money. And I remember thinking, if only I had more money, I could buy more resources. And then somebody sent me an email that had like every resource in it I could imagine. And suddenly all the source material I wanted literally fell into my lap. That's projector invitation to me. Here you go, transmitter. Here's the whole system. Good luck. When you say source material, do you mean the like Jobin Archive material and the Science of Differentiation book? The book that's, I guess- Oh, so even there, I have some qualms. Like my favorite material is like the black book and the white book. So the first textbooks from 1991 and 1994, even back then, the information was a little bit different, but it was almost more like slightly abstract, but refined. So the spleen wasn't called the spleen. It was called the cleansing center. And the root wasn't called the root. It was called the center at the base of the spine, which is a fucking mouthful. Or sorry, I don't know if I can swear on here. It was a mouthful. I curse them all the time. I'm from New Jersey and I'm Greek. Okay, good. Sorry, hold on. I had a brain snap there. Oh, Science of Differentiation. I don't particularly love that one. And it comes down to one sentence about the spleen. That book is written in combination with Linda Bunnell and Raw. And I believe that when Raw was not the primary educator and it transferred to most of the women that it is now, what you're looking at is predominantly generator women. And so we have predominantly generator women now teaching the system of human design, which doesn't work for projectors at all, unfortunately. So there's some directions that even the school has gone in in newer times that I don't love. I love OG Raw source textbook material. Yeah, there's one question about the spleen where it says the spleen whispers and never repeats itself. And it's telling you what to be afraid of. And I didn't love the fact that while they were talking about fear in the awareness centers, they didn't have the second half of the sentence, which is as long as you follow your authority, you don't have anything to be afraid of. And so I didn't like the fact that it left fear dangling, which honestly tells me that there's first color fear influence on the book. I don't know if Raw would have said it that way. And so it's not that I don't trust anything that's not Raw. It's just that I'm still hungry. I'm still hungry for original source based material. I have not consumed it all. It's as good as it gets. It's like, why do I want to buy watered down juice? I don't. I want my fresh pressed juice. Give me my juice. And when I'm done, we'll see what's next. Yeah, I really like going into all this stuff because like, you know, our podcast is here for the truth. So we like to have these interesting conversations. And correct me if I'm wrong. Is there a school of human design that just teaches based on the original download? Like where there's just two, like two strategies? Or is that correct? Or am I completely off? What's like to wait and then there's something else. I feel like it's some school in like the southeast in like New Mexico or something. I came upon some website once in a while. I don't know, maybe. Okay, well, this is funny because this actually just speaks to the fact that I don't look things up. So you telling me about this, I'm like, there's a school that teaches that. And immediately I start to filter through the information that I'd know about source material, about what the different types are. Now, in theory, they would say that everybody is a waiter, maybe except a manifestor who's an initiator. But even a manifestor is a waiter because they have to wait for their own internal urge. And they can be angry, waiting their entire lives and never actually initiate the thing. And so we are literally all designed to wait. And if we could figure that out, we'd have significantly less problems. Most of us are just impatient. Impatience is our biggest problem. Yeah. It seems that, like, obviously the itching is one of the core pillars of how human design comes about. Can you speak about that relationship? Can you be more specific? Well, I mean, obviously the itching was written like thousands of years ago. And I'm just curious, you know, I guess on how that ties into human design on a general level, how human design draws upon the itching to form, you know, a reading, etc. Okay, so a handful of important things, I think here are within the itching, we're talking about hexagrams. And so when you're looking at the mandala for human design, one of the outer rings is 64 different hexagrams. And a hexagram, you can tell what it is when you look at it, because it's got six lines from top to bottom. But different lines will have different breaks in them, which is their way of counting the number that it is. The 64 gates also work with your genetic codons. Some of this stuff is really interesting, because like, I mean, you could probably write an entire book on the answer to this question. So I think a lot of times the itching is referenced as one of the sciences in human design, but it's a misunderstanding that human design is a stacking of separate different systems that come together really well. I see it much more like over time as systems have come out, they have been very representative of our current evolution, our current understanding, even when we're talking about like the chakra system. So they'll reference the Hindu Brahman chakra system, but it only has seven centers. Whereas human design, we have nine centers. So we are the human being in transitus. So what that's acknowledging is a further evolutionary point than what the seven-centered chakra system is, because they split the ego and made it the ego and the heart. And then we added the solar plexus. And I think it's true if you ask people, you know, a difference between when we were still seven-centered and now, how important are things like emotional intelligence? Emotional intelligence wasn't a thing beforehand. It's a thing now. It's the part of us that's finally finishing our development. It's really the end of the human species. Welcome to figuring it out. Now we enter the next experiment. And so when I think about the I Ching, I think it's a much older system that was really good for its point in time. But I actually really don't know that much about it as a standalone system. In fact, I'd never even heard of it until I got into human design. Yeah. Thank you. Well, I mean, there's so much to talk about here. There's so much to cover. I'm just wondering where we go from here next. Erasmus, what are you thinking? Well, yeah. I mean, again, it's such a unique thing. Like we could sit here and talk about general things because again, our audience, Joel and I will reference human design. Obviously, I talk about it often. But and I want to ask you because I want to honor you and what you want to talk about as well. Do you think going through a little bit of an overview of the type is beneficial or do you want each type? For anyone that's watching and might have their chart or is that just that's just too basic in general and they won't tell the... You know what I mean? Interesting. Yeah. Tell us what's interesting. My understanding is unless you're a really, really academically motivated person, talking about the small details, especially in a bit of an abstract way, will usually lose people really quickly, especially if they're new people. I probably already lost them at this point in the conversation. They're like, I'm going to bookmark this one and come back to when I've learned a couple of things. So I find that if we can be a little bit personal, you really grab it at people's interest. And a lot of the times people don't understand the practicality of human design, like how awesome it actually makes your life and how easy it is. And both of you are generators. And so one of the things that I'm a little bit curious is both of you as generators, if human design is true, then both of you had some sort of positive response as in, oh, I have energy for this in terms of talking about human design, in terms of talking to me or the direction that you're headed in. So do either one of you have much for clarity, especially being emotional generators? What do you have for like, this is what my response feels like. I didn't know it felt like this. I didn't feel like that in the beginning of my life. Or I did feel like that as a kid and it went away for a while. Like, how do you know that you have a response to things? Well, I think for me, once I learned human design to the degree that I learned it and started experimenting and kind of playing around with things, I look back and I go, this is how I lived my life. You know, the things that drew me, the things that I had a response for, I moved towards, you know, even like my path has taken me all these different directions. And the decisions that I made ultimately were because I had a response to something that I wanted to do different. And I didn't know I was an emotional authority at that time, but I also gave myself some time. So, maybe a flash of something came to me, like, you're going to leave this job. You're going to travel around the world. You're going to do this path. And it like really excited me, but I wasn't announcing it to the world that moment. It was like, OK, let me just get, let me take a little time to feel into this. And then it was like, this is the right thing for me. And then boom, like I just, I went after the things that I had a strong response to and I continue to. So, that's how it lands for me. And what about you, Joel? Yeah, so it's interesting. So, I was raised in a family, a tight family. And I was always told that I was just going to work in the family business alongside of my father and my brother, who were both projectors. And I'm the sole male generator in my family. And mind you, I came across human design only three years ago. Yerasmus introduced it to me, but it's had a huge impact in my life. But most of my time trying to be involved in that family business system, like I was told, you're so lazy. Like, why aren't you just doing the thing, right? Like, why can't you just work? Why can't you just like apply yourself the same way that your brother does, or I do, whatever, you know? And coming across human design, it's because I was never fucking interested. I was never excited. Construction doesn't excite me, you know, concrete doesn't light me up, you know? And this whole time, like I was in this huge contradictory relationship with myself, thinking that like, I don't have the same motivation as my brother and my father. Or like, I don't have the same discipline, you know? I'm not the same kind of... And the truth is that I'm not. I never was. I never have been. So, like when I was given permission through human designs, like really follow my bliss, you know, in conjunction with understanding how I operate as an emotional being, that is the single most psychologically debris clearing knowledge that I could have received. It was like shackles just dropped. And it's very, very... The more that you experiment, the clearer it gets. Like I know what I have energy for. I know what I'm excited by. And I know what I'm not. I know when the urge isn't there. And I know when I act against myself that that's going to unravel my entire day. Like little different arguments are going to pop up. Little threads are going to pull. And it's going to unravel in a way which is not ideal at all, especially like, you know, if I'm asked to do something that I don't want to do and I act against myself, you know, it's never ideal. And so, really learning to honoring my authority in that sense and recognizing that that is so much beneficial to the whole system, even with my own family now that I have, has been huge in every facet of my life. I have a question. I would love to know both of you feel about this because Ra's big goal in the beginning was wake up the generator. You're 70% of the planet. Statistically, this is our best bet. Can we wake up the generator? And in theory, the generator should be the easiest to wake up on the planet. Just respond. And yet, you're simultaneously the hardest to wake up on the planet because nobody is more stuck in people pleasing because you think it's not about making me happy. If I can make them happy, then I can feel happy. If I can get them in a better mood, then I'll be in a better mood. If I can just, so. If I can pacify everyone else, then I'll be allowed to do what I want then. Only once I pacify everyone else around me with my energy. How hard is it for you to get over the hurdle of what this person thinks? I can't quit that job because I got to be a good provider. I can't do this thing because I got to. Yeah. I mean, I'm a recovered slash recovering people pleaser. I mean, I grew up with a Greek mom. You know, it was just like make people happy. You know what other people going to think that type of programming. But, you know, once I got deeper in some acting training, I was doing in deep psychological and consciousness work. I kind of separated from that. And this whole the world opened up to me. This is before I even learned human design where it was like, well, I can focus on my needs and what really what I'm interested in. And then everything changed from there. My whole world changed. So and then I remember hearing raw talk about that the generator is like, I guess 70% of the population is there to know themselves. So like the Oracle Adelphi, it's like, no, know thyself is really meant for the generator. And when I look at that, I go a lot of people just aren't into self-knowledge. No, the wrong people are into self-knowledge. Like projectors. We are not here to learn about ourselves. If you meet a projector who's trying to like study themselves, they're bitter. They're always bitter. They're really angry about their history. We're not we're not here for that. We're here to learn about the other. And the cool thing is when we tell the generator, you're here to know yourself, you know yourself through response. What we're really saying is know what you have a response for, because that's who you are. And when we ask and ask and ask and you go, uh-huh or uh-uh, suddenly you know yourself. And Joel, one of the things that you were talking about, you said, if I don't like if I don't honor myself, I don't respect myself. These little things start to happen. And what you were really describing to me, resistance. If you follow your strategy and authority, you know that slide I was talking about earlier. That's my life without resistance. We can get you into a life without resistance. I mean, number one, you look younger, like you look people who are really like surrendered in their experiment. They always look at least 10 years younger than they used to when they started their experiment. It's the craziest thing because you literally remove resistance off of people. But we live in a planet where people think resistance is the norm. You're supposed to be walking uphill in the snow both ways to school. [Speaker 2] (30:15 - 30:17) You know, it's- You must suffer. [Speaker 1] (30:18 - 39:59) Yeah, I must suffer. You know, beauty is pain and all like it's like nothing good came easy and like literally how many phrases are there to keep us struggling? But you know what? I think that is applicable in the deconditioning process, though. Like it is. There is a pain process in deconditioning into your authority, you know? And a good does come out of it in that perspective. I think you're talking about the shattering. Have you been through some of these where you completely- Yeah, I would say- Can you talk about that more, yeah? Yeah, the shattering is a big deal. The shattering is- Well, it's when you look in the mirror and you don't- You don't see yourself. Like the- What you have been conditioned to look for isn't there anymore. It's like some- I sometimes I call it the block tower. I feel like sometimes, especially as a third line, that my life is this block tower. And sometimes I just walk up and kick the whole thing over. And then I go back to, you know, rebuilding it according to the pieces that actually belong to me. Because, you know, especially when you have openness. I have seven undefined centers. Every single person I walk past, I feel like they put a little thing in my shopping basket, put a little thing in my shopping basket. And sometimes I go to checkout at the store and I'm like, how the hell did I get all this stuff? This isn't me. I don't want to spend this money. This isn't what I eat. This isn't my, like, you have to get rid of some of this stuff. And so these shatterings are kind of going, holy shit, this isn't what my relationship is supposed to look like. This isn't what my job is supposed to be like. This isn't what my friendships are supposed to be like. This isn't what my self-perspective is supposed to be like. This isn't what my mental health should be like. This isn't. And you have these moments where you're kind of willing to break it all down and rebuild it. And it hurts and it's confusing. And I lately call it space rock. I say that I need to go sit on space rock. Where I feel like there's just this void around me. And it probably is very much like I'm seeing my energy, I think in a very different way. I need to contain myself, go sit on my own energetically and just wait to see what's coming. Because sometimes we're so busy trying to be, even just being distracted. We need to just clear everything, sit down for a sec and see what's coming. If people feel like they're in a shattering, like my self-perspective is broken a little bit right now and I'm not quite sure how I'm putting it all back together. This is a really good time for that patience to kick in and sit and wait and be the waiter and let things come to you and then use your authority to send it back away if it's not right. I have six undefined centers. So I guess I'm pretty undefined. I just have the G center, emotional and sacral defined. Oh, so that undefined ego. How do you feel about that? About trying to prove yourself? Oh, it's been a huge theme in my life that I always have to check myself. Like, where's this motivation? Why am I saying these things? Why am I doing this? Why am I behaving this way? Am I trying to prove myself and prove that I have worth and value, et cetera? So that's a never-ending kind of still little thing I'm navigating. But again, years into exploring human design to the degree that I have, it's softened. There's times where I'm like, oh yeah, I'm not trying to prove anything right now. This feels good. And then I go, oh, okay. In that moment, I think I was. So it's a process, I find. I would think it would be really hard to be a generator man with an undefined ego because you have this part of you that says like, I should be a worker and a provider. And also, but I don't not have value if I don't do that. Yeah. Are you an undefined ego too? Yeah, I've got three undefined centers, head, mind, I do not crown mind and ego. But yeah, the proving yourself has been definitely a process for me as well, particularly in the family system that I was raised in. Much of what we built and created now is me trying to unconsciously prove myself to my dad on some level. I remember, it's funny. I remember the day I walked out of that business. It was like, you'll never make money without me. You know, like that kind of set the tone. Like, yeah, watch me. You probably made money the next day. Those two. What are, again, I don't want to speak in generalities, but I'm curious, like let's say someone's looking at a chart, like I got eight centers defined and their partner has like two centers defined. Like the general differences of a highly defined individual versus someone who's highly undefined, can you speak on that a little bit? Don't sleep together. We met nine years ago and we knew about human design beforehand and she's a projector. I'm a generator, but she's got four centers defined and I have three centers defined, but we haven't, we don't sleep together. It's been nine years where we have our own bedrooms and we love it. People, they don't understand. I love the don't sleep together conversation because the regular world does not know how to handle this. Like there are people who genuinely in their core, for some reason, think that like you're not in a real relationship unless you're sharing like a marital bed and all of this stuff. And then I think immediately people panic like, well, am I not going to have any intimacy in my life anymore? But it's my understanding that people who have separate bedrooms actually have more intimacy than people who share a bedroom. So I would just like to put that out in the airspace. But if you're in a relationship with someone who is very, very, very defined, I mean, you might be a perfectionist study kind of person. Like if I get into relationships with people who have a lot of definition, but I literally like to make my deconditioning journey hard on myself. I don't know why. Third line ego. I'm like, give me a challenge. This seems like it will be nearly impossible. Sure, let's try. Let's see if it completely derails my entire experiment. I watched myself do this too and I wish that it didn't happen, but I am what I am. There's a little fly on my camera. That's hilarious. I think that when someone is very defined, you are asking for a different kind of deconditioning journey. But I also know that everything that I just said has created a concern for me that the audience is hearing me say things that talk about only having to decondition undefined centers. And I don't think that's true. And I don't think that's talked about enough because, you know, just because you have a defined emotional system, I don't know if you have a healthier emotional process than someone who is undefined. In fact, I'm sure that there are a lot of people who are undefined who have a way healthier emotional process because they've been actively deconditioning it for 20, 30, 40 years. I know people with defined egos who are terrible. They're terrible, terrible egos. You know, just because you have definition doesn't make it, doesn't make you the teacher. I think that's what I'm trying to say. Just because you have the color colored in center doesn't mean you're better at it. Doesn't mean you're good at it. Doesn't mean that people should learn from you. You can have definition that is healthy or unhealthy. You can have undefined that is healthy or unhealthy. And ideally, the wisest anybody could be is more undefined. The reflector is here to be the wisest and they're entirely undefined. There's something that they can learn from every single center. Whereas if you have that definition, you tend to have a mindset of like, I don't need that. I have that. I don't, there's a bit of, there can be an invalid arrogance that can come from just having definition. If you're taught in the beginning that having it makes you the teacher. Yeah. I've got a manifestor wife, a reflector daughter and a managing daughter and maybe a projector down the line, we'll see. What does that mean? Would that be like his own penta right there? Like, I don't know if that's the wrong word of saying it, but they have every single type. Let's say he has another projector in the fam. I would say you got us, you got a solid group in there. But if you have a projector, what you're going to have hilariously is the problem where the baby tries to be the boss of the family, which happens a lot, a lot, a lot. It's quite funny. Is that a common thing? The projector tries to be the boss? I mean, we were kind of born for that role. So we are literally always trying. We're always trying. And in fact, that's kind of our problem. If we have parents that raise us not to try so hard, we do a lot better. Like, I have quite a few projector little kids in my neighborhood and one of them is a 12 year old. And she said something to me the other day. She's like, it's like none of my siblings listen to me. I was like, they don't. And on top of that, they don't even hear you when you're talking. You think you say words and other people hear them. And I'm telling you as a projector, if they didn't ask, they're not ready. They don't understand. They didn't hear it. Don't be so offended. And don't try so hard. Sit and wait. And then they come to you and they go, hey, Becca, how do I do this? And then you tell them and lo and behold, they listen to you. And look how easy that was for you. And look how good it felt for you. So stop trying to tell them what to do until they ask you. [Speaker 2] (39:59 - 40:00) Sophie, you listening to this? [Speaker 1] (40:04 - 40:25) Well, hold on. We have a bit of a debate here. Like this is where we're getting a question of open ended invitation. And so projectors love to argue about this. Is there an open ended invitation? Like because she's your wife, is she allowed to just guide you all the time? Or do we need specific invitations for specific guidance? Yeah, it's it's nuanced. It's interesting, though. But it's funny. Because same time. [Speaker 2] (40:29 - 40:35) You do think that a projector is more inclined to try and be the boss than a manifesto would? [Speaker 1] (40:37 - 40:39) Oh, very different types of bosses. [Speaker 2] (40:39 - 40:40) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (40:40 - 41:34) Now, if you get a projector that doesn't know how to guide, they'll try and do it like a manifesto. Go clean your room. That's how a manifesto is going to do it. Whereas, you know, my son, Maven, if I'm just practicing how to get him to do things, I'll go, do you want to clean your room? And he'll go, oh, because obviously not. He's a nine year old who doesn't want to clean his room. But if I say. When you're done cleaning your room, would you like to go get doughnuts? Uh-huh. OK, cool. So as soon as your room's done, we're going to go get doughnuts. And suddenly he has the energy to do the thing. And so there is bossy, as in telling him to go clean his room, which is only going to make him frustrated and resentful towards me. There's asking him and showing a little bit of respect towards him, but still giving him the option to tell me no. And then there's knowing what motivates my son and asking him with that built into it so that I can get him to say yes. [Speaker 3] (41:38 - 41:44) I completed Rise Above the Herd last year, and I can honestly say that there is nothing like it out there. [Speaker 1] (41:45 - 44:25) It is a deep dive into getting to know yourself on a deeper level. What are your passions? What are you interested in? How do you want to create in the world? And it definitely helped me achieve that. Rise Above the Herd has now deeply impacted the lives of over 60 students across six rounds and has just become more integrated and more affordable than before. If you're down, head to riseabovetheherd.co to reserve your spot for one of the limited seats available for round seven today. We take off October 9th. Let me ask you this question. Like I mentioned before, I have a reflector daughter, right? But it's like part of me like is like feels like you have to wait an entire lunar cycle to make decisions. You know, like I feel bad, like informing her of that, you know, guiding her. Like how does that how does that work in practicality for a reflector? Exposure therapy. If you think about conditioning your daughter the way that you would condition anybody with a fear through exposure therapy, you will always make things easier on her. It is so unlikely that from birth onward, she is going to know how to process certain decisions for a month or how to look at those decisions or whether or not this decision is one that should take that long. And it's also not that they all take a particular month. And so mostly what you want to do is you want to give her like a padded I talk about like a padded room. It's like when she throws herself against something because she's upset. Does she does she land on something support? Does she land on something that's more supportive for her? And so when she doesn't know how to make any decisions, you think, let's just take little bites. So an example is at some point, you're going to have to go to school. You know, maybe you don't know what kind of school is good for her. So you're going to take her to this classroom and this classroom and this classroom. And then a month later, you're going to go back. Same classroom, same classroom, same classroom. What did she think about the experience the first time versus the second time? So when she is ready to start kindergarten, if that's a thing coming up, you will actually want to go to these different schools and tour them with her. It's exposure therapy. If she has to start something new where she's never been there before, that's going to be wildly uncomfortable. Gotcha. Yeah, it definitely makes a bit more sense. She's going to be homeschooled, but I get the analogy. Yeah. Just little like a sample. That's what they do. They sample. Sample, they're samplers. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (44:26 - 44:26) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (44:27 - 54:37) Um, what, uh, do you think any two people, this is general, like relationships and human design, you know, relations and human design, I think is important. I mean, knowing, Sophie and I knowing each other's charts and types and authorities and all this has supported us greatly. I mean, when I first started learning more about being a projector and that she was a projector, that changed, you know, how I communicated with her, how I talked to her and vice versa. Are there two types or charts that are just going to be a lot more naturally easy or is it based on the level of self-awareness that can make even more challenging on the surface charts work? Do you know what I'm saying? There are so many tiers to this and the most important thing to acknowledge right off the bat is there is no clear answer that says we don't work. So people are always looking for the like, oh, you know, seven and two work to do, this is never going to work. I'm like, that's garbage because if you have some level of awareness, you're going to learn about how those two open centers affect your relationship and you're going to overcome that. So there is the possibility that any relationship can work if it's right for their authority, if it's right for the strategy, you can work at it. I don't have any hard and press rules about this, but there are certain things that make other things easier and other things more challenging. I think that the most challenging relationship on the planet is going to be between a generator and a manifester. Sorry, Joel, you picked a hard one. The easier relationships on the planet are between generators and projectors. However, there is still a really big challenge to that. You put a projector with anybody who's not a projector. I don't think you keep a projector for very long. And I'm not saying they leave you. I'm saying they become not projectors. Very, very quickly, a projector can try and be a manifester, try and be a generator, try and be a... And when we're partnered with generators who don't know what it is to not have sacral energy, it's a really weird thing to try and get people to understand. Like when I tell a generator, I've never been satisfied from sex. They're like, what? And I'm like, I've never been satisfied, ever. It's not a thing that happens for me. I have success, you know, in all of my situations, or not success or bitterness. So I think, ultimately, the projector and generator are designed to be the most complementary. They should be able to use each other the best. But if they don't have awareness on how to do that, it can be really, really bad. Generator with generator is almost perfect. It's honest. It's really honest. And statistically, it works out for y'all to be with each other and pull in guidance as needed. I think manifestors do really well with other manifestors and sometimes manifesting generators because there is a similarity for communication. Ultimately, what's hard about all of this is communication. We all have very different communication styles, and that's the big problem in relationships. After communication is going to be money, which is very relevant to how you are designed to work. And if you're designed to be working a certain way, then you're going against that. And then beyond that, circuitry. Circuitry is something that is not talked about that much in terms of relationship, at least not in the general YouTube, Instagram, whatever, where we're finding all this easy information. There's not enough said about circuitry because I'm purely tribal. You put me with a purely tribal any other type, and we have a common thing that is so core to how we operate. That's going to be easy for us. You know, I've been with a projector, but the projector I was with was an emotional authority and purely individual. Those were really big differences for us. We got along really well as types, but circuitry is, circuitry is a big thing. And I think that as we watch the cross change, so we're in the cross of planning right now, which is a tribal cross. It ends in 2027. We move into the cross of the Sleeping Phoenix, which is an individual cross. People who are currently tribal, they're supported by the background frequency. As in the fact that people still think that getting married is the normal thing to do tells me that we're supported by tribal frequency. When you have so many people post-2027 get divorced, rediscover themselves, and when they think about re-getting married, they go, I can't, I'm busy. I can't, I'm busy. Then we see the future of individual influence in relationships. It's much more about me, not we. And so, there are going to be big differences in the types of relationships we're encouraged to be in now and post-2027. Yeah, it's really interesting. Both my parents are manifestors. So, I grew up with two manifestor parents. And they told you- But they're also old school, like Greek immigrants. So, there's still some of those old school roles, but like both my parents were fierce and like they just tell you what to do. And I have to say, when I learned about human design and I learned that my parents were manifestors, I went home for the first time. It was a holiday trip, I think I took there. And then like my mom just busted in the room and it was just like telling us what to do. And I went, oh, this is what she's- And she's just naturally herself. I think, you know, her mom died when she was six years old and she's the eldest. So, she had to kind of like be in charge from six years old in certain ways. And so, just it came naturally to her. And I had so much more compassion. And I think what I love about human design is that when we understand the differences that exist truly, like we can just have more compassion for the other. Because most people are going around there just trying to turn everyone into themselves. It's like you should be more like me. You should be more like me. You should be more like me. You should communicate like me. You should emote like me. You should- And it's like, it's just so limited. Okay, you bring up a really important point that I want to get to the other side of. This compassion for understanding why the other person is how they are. I think a lot of us, we have stories, narratives, traumas. We have experiences where we go, this person acted this way to me. And we see it as an offense on ourself. You know, they didn't love me, so they treated me this way. Or they didn't understand me, so they treated me this way. And then you get into design and you look at the designs of the people that have hurt you. And you realize it had nothing to do with you. It had a lot to do with them being whatever they are. And so immediately, there is this opportunity for compassion. And most people won't go there. Because in order to experience that, you're going to have to let some things go. And so many of us are holding on so tightly to pain, especially pain that we'll use to validate habits that we currently have now or a life that we currently have now. And we don't want to be compassionate. I like to make these things real. I'm personal view. I was really angry at my dad for a really, really, really long time for certain inaction he took in my life. And then I, you know, he's an emotional generator. And so I get to a point of going, what if he just didn't have a response? Like, truly, what if there was no response for that thing that I thought I was asking for, I thought that I needed, or I thought that I... And while I can still acknowledge, like, that hurt me to not receive that, I no longer see it as malicious on his part to withhold that from me. Because he didn't have something to give me that he withheld. He didn't have anything. And so if there was no response, what am I really mad about? I'm mad about things that I can't do anything about. And then I'm realizing I'm just angry. And if I'm just angry, who is this really serving? So I need to let it go. Yeah. Is it possible that like, you know, the response can just be like repressed, like through conditioning? And like, you know, some individuals just don't experience their authority in the way that it's meant to be experienced? Absolutely. Like one of the things that I wanted my dad to have a response for was I wanted him to be more defensive of a bad experience that I had. I want my dad to go kick some ass on my behalf. And not only did he not go kick some ass, he didn't even have a like challenging conversation with the person that hurt me. Like they're really... But I'm a purely tribal person. And so there's this core in me that goes, defend the tribe, defend the family. So I'm designed to think that way. I'm designed to feel that way. I'm designed to have these own reactions. I was very tribal defensive of my son and I didn't understand why. But my dad's not purely tribal. He's not. And what he actually had concerns with were how people would think if he did react to the situation. And so did he act the way that he really wanted to act in those times? I don't know. Was there something he wanted to do but he didn't feel like it was appropriate or would be supported? Or maybe he thought he'd make things worse. I really don't know. All I know is that I can accept him and let go of the stuff. You know, I will say that my dad is open to confrontation with me. If I say I want to sit down and talk about this, he doesn't tell me no. And so we get our truth in confrontation and he's an emotional generator. So that's progress for me. Okay, you're a solar plexus. It's getting healthier. You're at least willing to talk to me about these things now. Okay, so we're growing. [Speaker 2] (54:39 - 54:40) You spleenic? [Speaker 1] (54:40 - 1:01:53) Yeah. Listen to me telling my lessons of when to let it go, when to let it go. This is a question I think I get a lot and I observe. It's like, how does a person, and maybe this happens over time, differentiate between their authority and conditioned trauma response? Because they could just be like, I'm following my gut or like I'm spleenic and this is what I need to do in the moment. And like, is that just a process of experimenting over time to get to kind of peel away some of the conditioning? And like, does an individual need to do trauma healing nervous system work before they really like dive into human design? Or human design just like, that's it, I know human design and I'm just gonna be deconditioned in seven years. Okay, so when we talk about deconditioning in seven years, the reason that we talk about seven years is because we're talking about a genuine cellular turnover. So when I say like, I got into this through quantum physics and biology, not through astrology. To me, it's like the cellular turnover. Oh, okay, moment of truth. We're actually talking about. So when things in human design are validated by very basic things that we learned in science and like, okay, okay, I'm paying attention. Yes, seven years cellular turnover. So it actually makes sense that I'm really like buffing off my skin cells of conditioning and slowly becoming a new from the inside out. That tells me if I expect to be new before my first seven years is up, I'm dreaming. I'm just telling myself, my passenger is still being told more lies in hopes to believe about what this whole experience is. Now, when we're talking about healing, because that is part of what this question is, is, well, one, I don't believe that people get healed. There is no point where like, you were one way, we fucked you up, and then we turned you back into like this good quality, perfect version of you, because tomorrow is another day to be fucked over and traumatized again and start the whole process over again. So every day we just try and be better to ourselves than we were before, which means expect to go through the shattering, expect to fuck it up, expect to learn the lesson the hard way, expect to have to go back and read more, expect to have to talk to somebody about maybe you didn't understand it the first time. Definitely dive more into source material in terms of what your authority, not only what your authority is, but what organ systems it governs. Like as a splenic authority, that affects my lymphatic system more than anything else. So if I need to like, really understand my authority, I would think about my lymphatic fluid. If I feel slow and sluggish and like, I'm not going to be in a good place in my authority. If I'm doing my Abhyanga, my like oil massage and drinking a lot of water and my detox teas and stuff, then I have a very like flushed regulated system. My skin will be glowing. I'll look healthy. Splenic authority is, is this healthy or not? Is this healthy or not? Whereas you guys are both emotional. So we've got kidneys, pancreas, lungs, nervous system. And so there is likely work related to those things. In particular, cry more and replace your liquid. Cry more and replace your liquid. It's the kidneys. They're flushing out your body. Cry more, replace the liquid. This is how we keep your solar plexus clean. So sweating would be good as well? Or yeah. I mean, I always feel amazing after I cry. I mean, I just love it. A good cry, a good song or a movie. And I'm like, OK, ready to go. Ready to rock. And you're just moving things. Like crying isn't like, oh, I'm weak. Oh, I'm angry. Oh, I'm stuck. Oh, I'm... It's literally just moving things through you. And that, again, brings up the concept of resistance. Where are you putting resistance in the body to stop things moving through you? Are you resisting crying? That's not how you get to who you are. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've cried tears of joy and gratitude. I feel like maybe even more often than like, oh, I'm sad or something's wrong. You know, and that... One point I still want to make on the last one before I forget it. He refers to them as the white hats. But Raw talks about people who have the good intention of trying to heal other people without the awareness that they can't heal other people. And so you have a lot of people trying to do good work without the understanding that they're fucked up and they can't help you. And so when I think like, am I going to go for talk therapy? I did lots of talk therapy my whole life, but I haven't done it since I found human design. Why haven't I been back to talk therapy since I found human design? I don't want to talk about it. Like, I don't... I'm not looking to talk to someone who doesn't know design, doesn't know my life, doesn't know my definition, is still living their own fucked up seven centered not self programming. Is this the person that I want guidance from? No. And I'm not saying that everyone is like that. I'm just saying the idea that some stranger is going to be able to heal me is a joke. Honestly, it's just a transaction. Yeah. And I'm curious. I mean, I'm assuming maybe you agree with this, but I even have an issue with the terms of someone calling themselves a healer. I'm a healer. Arrogant much? Well, you may guide someone, but they're doing, their body's doing the healing. They're going through that process. So, calling yourself the healer means you're doing the healing. And that just doesn't seem accurate to me. And it is, I agree with you. It feels a little arrogant or just... Yeah. I think circuitry can be really helpful here. I wouldn't say that I'm a healer, but I would say I'm really good as a support person. If you have individual circuitry, you're really good for empowerment. That makes you more of a role model. If you're collective, then you're really good at sharing the information people need. But we're not fixers. How do you discover your circuitry? I'm not even sure of my circuitry. Tell me what your channels are and I'll tell you. Well, okay. Inspiration, alpha, mating, transformation. Okay. So, inspiration, that's the one to eight. That's individual from the G to the throat. What was next? Alpha, 31 to seven. Okay. So again, G to throat. That's collective logical. Mating, 59 to six. Tribal from sacral to solar plexus. So that's support. And transformation, 32 to 54. Another tribal one. And it is the bottom of my stream. So when you have two channels that go through an awareness center, so starting in 54 to your 32, up to my 44 and over to my 26, that's the whole stream of instinct. That means together, you and I are very, very good at business things. You have the ambition and the awareness of how to spend the money. I have the awareness of who to hire and what product we're selling. [Speaker 3] (1:01:54 - 1:01:54) You're hired. [Speaker 1] (1:01:55 - 1:01:57) You have two tribal channels. [Speaker 3] (1:01:57 - 1:01:58) Welcome to the team. [Speaker 1] (1:02:01 - 1:02:29) Inspiration, your inspiration one is going to be really fascinating because it's the only individual channel that you have. And it's, I go my way. If you can figure out where I'm going, you can come along, but I'm not going to tell you where I'm going. I go my way. I go the way that I'm creatively inspired. Get out of my way. Follow if you want, but get out of my way. I'm going. Yeah. So there's not like, there's not like one, it's not one or the other for me. No, you're mixed. I only have one channel and it's tribal. So I'm only tribal. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:02:29 - 1:02:30) Got you. [Speaker 1] (1:02:31 - 1:04:56) Of course, I'm curious. I have a 59.6. Joel and I both have the 59.6 channel. And then I have two channels that go from the G center to the sacral, the 214 and the 4629. So you're the beat and discovery. Yeah. Okay. So when you have the beat, you should be financially comfortable in your life. You're someone who should not have a hard time making money if you're using your skillset properly. Two is the direction, 14 is the skill. And so you are someone who goes, uh-huh. And you can literally make like action. Like, I don't know why, but I always think of a cabinet maker, which I know that you're not. But I think of someone who goes literally like, I make something. Sorry, that was probably loud. And people buy it from me. You have a skillset that literally turns into money. So as long as we allow you to use that without being influenced, you should be pretty good at making money. Okay. And is that an individual? Are they both individual channels that go from G to sacral? So you're going to start at the channel mutation on the bottom, the 60. 60 to 3, 14 to 2, 8 to 1, 23 to 43, and 24 to 61. That whole center column is all individual. Gotcha. Cool. Very cool. I mean, it's accurate. It's accurate what you're saying. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, 14 is my personality sign, but it's the- I don't know if- Does Ra talk about life themes? Because I got that material from that other book. So I don't know where it- It's on Paragon. Well, it's the Incarnation Cross is what- Yeah, that's right. Technically, it's called The Life Theme of Uncertainty, and man, is that a theme my entire life. Incarnation Crosses are really- I think that they're like everybody gets a personal riddle. I honestly think that the answer to the Incarnation Cross is a weird little riddle. And one day you go, oh, that's what that is. And especially because it's not on your whole life. The Incarnation Cross isn't really relevant until about 45 years old. Interesting. Very interesting. Sam, I want to ask you a question. This may be controversial. We'll see. What are your thoughts on the Gene Keys system? I haven't read anything about it. I don't love giving that answer because people are like, what? [Speaker 2] (1:04:57 - 1:04:58) Yeah, fascinating. [Speaker 1] (1:04:58 - 1:15:36) I'm really good at human design, and I don't know a lot about astrology or Gene Keys or any of it because things that are poetic and archetypal leave me to wonder too much. And when I wonder, I fill in the gaps with information I prefer, not information that is real. So for now, I'm still stuck in my very dry, very academic human design. Yeah, systemic, logical. And that's what human design is. Like Gene Keys to me is very contemplative. It's very imaginal. They're very, you know, even though I guess they're related to some degree. I think Richard was a student of ours, I believe. But yeah, they're- they come from different hemispheres completely. I think that sometimes they're a really appropriate warm up for people. I have- I have met quite a few people who study the Gene Keys and that was able to get them into human design. But I realized that human design on its own is quite abrasive to a lot of people. They don't- they don't like it. It's not soft enough for them. There's- Well, I mean, Ra is shocking. Like you might- you kind of have to work your- I love him. He's like standing comedy to me. I love just a punch to the gut of truth. You know, it's- like just give it to me straight. Whereas when I bought all the human design books in the beginning, I was very attracted to Karen Curry's work. And I didn't realize that what she was doing was very different from real human design. But it was very feminine. It was very soft. It was very approachable. It was feel-good content. And she's a generator, like open and enveloping, warm and open and enveloping. She makes it attractive. Attractive. But it's not- it misses its foundation. Whenever I end up working with people who have been through these alternative training programs, there's always like foundational information that's really important that's missing. Yep. So, for someone new, someone's listening right now and go, I want to look at my chart or I want to start this experiment. Where would you send them? Like, would you have a training program? Would you send them to the source material? Like, you know, curious. We'll talk about it later what your offerings are. I mean, I guess if I'm going to be totally freaking honest, I want them. If you want to know about your human design, I actually want you to talk to me before you go look at much other stuff. Because the most common feedback from my readings is that they're not like any other readings people have had. And likely because I didn't go through any training programs. And I've done- I'm over a thousand now. And it- yeah. And I think because I'm a transmitter, like if you come up with a program for how to do this, it goes back to what we were saying about like, do what I do. Be like me. This is what worked for me. So, I think this is what works for you. Whereas that's already taking people further into a problem that I'm here to help them get rid of. So, let's say, you know, they're a generator. They're going to meet me and they're going to learn themselves based on what they have a response to learning about the way that the generator is supposed to learn about human design. So, I'm almost like, well, I'm very tribal defensive, actually. The more that I talk about this, the more that it starts to come out. I get really, really angry when I see people pay a lot of money for garbage information that's over-conditioning and over-universalized. And a lot of that makes me feel like I don't have a good place to send people for information. I've had a few people where I've liked them for a while, but then I lose trust in something. And so, I would say, get your body graph from Jovian Archive. It's going to have the best time. Like, I personally, I work with Genetic Matrix, and yet I will also very openly say, they fuck up their times. Genetic Matrix totally screws up their time. But as a secondary to Jovian Archive, that's the program that I use. Jovian Archive is definitely where I would send people to get their chart. Yeah, my body graph is connected to Jovian Archive, right? Yeah. That's what I recommend people check out. My body graph? And well, that, but Jovian Archive is the main one It's by Jovian Archive, I'm pretty sure. I think that everybody should get like a Welcome to Human Design package that should include the black book and the white book. I think if you can give someone the black book and the white book, they will be significantly more discerning about all the information they take in after that point. And they'll be able to recognize when the information doesn't match. I like to give, yeah, I just want people to feel. Can those be purchased on like Amazon or something? A black book and white book, or do you have to go to some stuff? Humandesignamerica.com. I buy a lot of books from them and they do a lot of like audio stuff. You can just download audios, but I love having like the actual printed. And they're like $30 books. They're not expensive. No, I mean, a minimal investment to getting a deeper understanding of yourself. I think it's worth it when you think about what most people spend their money on. I think literally up in, I don't think I've spent more than $1,000 on human design, including readings and textbooks, which is like minuscule for what a lot of people spend. But I really see that as like I am where I'm supposed to be. All of the resources I need, they get emailed to me, they get texted to me, they get WhatsApp to me. Like I am just given whatever I need. I'm really curious what the design is of that fly that keeps buzzing around. It's so annoying. It's so annoying. But this is the season that I live in and my passenger is surrendered and what to do? There are like different designs for animals and things as well, correct? Everything has a design, inanimate single cell objects, plants. Plants are fascinating because as much as a plant has a design, we're really only looking at like the overall empty body graph of what a plant could be. Because in order to run a chart for a plant, you need, well, to run a chart for anything, you need a conception date. And so with a plant, you have seeds with the ability to lay dormant for potentially thousands of years. You can't run a birth time for that plant. Very true. Our dog's a reflector, I believe. I got a reflector and a generator. What's your favorite thing about human design? Like what's your favorite thing? Like what do you love about it? It's like being asked your favorite color and then suddenly you're like, I love all of the colors. Oh God, I have no idea. Even though I wear black every day, like we all know, okay. So favorite thing about human design, it gave me a backbone. It gave me like someone in my court. It gave me support. It gave me like, voice. It gave me, I stopped arguing with people because I just didn't even need to. Like I was good on whatever I got going on. And it kind of blows my mind in terms of everything I think. Everything we're conditioned to think is like too hard for us is probably actually the thing that we should be doing. Like those weird dreams you're afraid to admit because it doesn't seem like it's a possibility. And I don't mean dreams like, I want a big house or I want, they're not material dreams. A material dream is like, sure you got yourself a big house, but how do you feel to be you walking around this big house? Like how's your brain? How's your mind? How's your sleep? How's your sex? How's your communication? How's your, I want all of those things. I'm like, I'm not even looking for them to be good or like, I'm not looking for metrics anymore about, I don't want to make so much money. I don't want, they're not status things anymore. They're quality of life things. Human design gives me a very, very different quality of life that money was never going to get me. I can't buy these things. I decide to be these things. And there's just, yeah, there's just this like sense of self, sense of confidence, sense of autonomy, sense of authority. Yeah, totally. Totally. I mean, just like the decision-making process, you know, is, I feel like I was so lost in the wilderness, lost in so much mire, you know, before really beginning to grasp and understand, you know, my decision-making process. And particularly as an emotional, because we're constantly on this wave. And what I find is like, before I understood human design, I think that I would have easily misconstrued the high of a wave for like intuition, you know, or for like the thing, something speaking to me, or like a synchronicity or like, this is the thing I must, I'm so impulsed and magnetized to do, you know, when it like, it's not the case at all. I've gotten into, I've gotten myself into a lot of trouble acting on the high of waves in the past. I think most emotional people are convinced that the high is the normal or the desirable or the right place to be. And if they're not there, then something is wrong. And I think about how many relationships have happened because somebody is in a high and they get into a relationship and then that changes. And either one, they think they don't like the other person anymore because they're not getting high off of them anymore. Or the person that is the one they chose to be in relationship with. It's weird. Because it's like, your people think that they don't like you unless they're in a high. And so then I think, well, how did you learn to love and be attracted to, it's weird. I don't want to say like, it's not about being attracted to your wife, but like, how did you learn I love this person when I'm low and that makes it real love? [Speaker 2] (1:15:43 - 1:15:44) That's a very deep question, Sam. [Speaker 1] (1:15:47 - 1:16:00) Half the people are emotionally defined. And she's an emotionally defined manifesto. So you both have to love each other in a low in order to fully trust that it's real. [Speaker 2] (1:16:03 - 1:16:03) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:16:08 - 1:18:02) Deep. Very deep. Yourself is emotional too. I mean, a huge part of strengthening our relationship has been human design as well. Like just in being able to know the other, you know, like what else is love if you can't know the other? Know how the other operates and still meet them, you know, where they are as a human being. I have questions about what is love all the time. And I get into like pretty quality debates with my ex, the individual emotional projector, because like from his perspective, he's like, I am love. Whereas I see love as like a thing to be treated. And then I also look at both of our designs and how this happens, because I don't necessarily believe what I think. You know what I mean? I see how I think. And then I go, really? Do I actually think like love is a bargain? Love is something to be treated. Is it because I have an ego? Is it because I'm tribal? Is it because of my conditioning? Is it because of my... And when he thinks like, I am love, like I am love incarnate, like being alive is love. And I have self-love. And my self-love allows me to love everything because I love myself. You know, like there are these... There's so many different kinds of love, but I have to admit that he's much more right than I am. And the irony is that he's quad right and I'm all left, but he's much more right than I am. Because if you don't have self-love at the core, you have nothing to give to somebody else. You have nothing to bargain with. He precludes me. He's right. Yeah, you know, the Greeks have six words for love, you know, whereas we have... [Speaker 2] (1:18:02 - 1:18:02) Eros? [Speaker 1] (1:18:03 - 1:19:11) Eros, agape, philotia, ludus. I don't know, there's a couple of other ones there. And they just mean something different, whether it's like romantic love, playful love, love of everyone, you know, love of self. Philotia, I think, is the other one. And so it's, yeah, it's interesting to see how they utilize these different words. To mean different things and like we say love, you know, and we have these deep conversations. What is love? Yeah, but if someone can't be safe to be who they are with another person, then there is no love. And I think human design actually moves us towards being safe to be who you are as an individual, especially when this understanding comes into relationship. There's a... You're kind of making me want to ask a question. Do you think that people can be successful in a relationship if only one of them knows design? It depends how naturally inclined the other person is towards living out their design. I guess is the first thing that hits me, Erasmus. Well, yeah, well, yeah. I always say sometimes it doesn't take two to tango. [Speaker 2] (1:19:12 - 1:19:12) Sometimes... [Speaker 1] (1:19:12 - 1:25:38) Let's be honest, there's highly successful relationships with people that have no idea about what design is. Yeah, like we, you know, up until 1987, you know, there have been relationships I would have to assume have been successful. Now it's a different time. We have a different way of relating. Relationships are different. We're moving into a new place. Self-knowledge is more at the focus than maybe just like abiding by these, you know, more generic roles. But I don't know. I mean, I like that my wife is into human design and I am. We have a language that we can communicate to one another. By both of us knowing we were emotional authorities, we're able to see like, oh, my wife's on a wave. Okay, sometimes her wave would trigger my wave or my wave would trigger a wave. Like it's just, there's more awareness there. The reality is, yeah, also like I understand and see my wife on such a clearer level through knowing design. You know, like it's less cloudy. It's less blurry. People are less just, you know, an amalgamation. It's like someone becomes more defined. You know, the sculpture becomes clearer. The edging, you know, all the little things that make something beautiful, they become clearer into view. You know, it's like putting glasses on. So, you start to see them more for their definition and less for the possibility of not self in their openness. It's like you have less stories, I think. When we both know human design, we're not, there's a lot less like just, you know, when you have a conversation in your head that you already had that you didn't have the right way or whatever. There's a lot less of that when you know someone's design because you're not guessing so much at why they're doing what they're doing. But I have dabbled a few times in trying to be in relationships with people that don't know human design. And usually the thing that is like trying to make this happen is this question about prior to 1987, it's not like we didn't have projectors, but we didn't have the system. So, how were projectors being in these relationships beforehand? I figure as long as we're being recognized and invited, that's all that's really required for strategy and authority. So, they shouldn't have to know human design in order to make a relationship work with me. They should just like me enough to recognize and invite me and the mechanics kind of play out. But as soon as there's a moment of conflict, I realize this person doesn't have the ability to see me clearly. And so, they start to have a lot of alternative narratives going on about why they think something is happening. Whereas I have a lot more clarity on what's happening and I don't have a lot of these narratives. So, a lot of the times what I end up doing is having these like conversations where I'm trying to re-explain myself to somebody who doesn't know me in this language that they don't use. And then it just kind of sounds a little crazy. And then I kind of just give up. Yeah, I think even what we're talking to at the most basic level is a value system and a shared value system like you. Human design is a very, very, very high value of yours. And so, to enter into partnership with someone who's like, you know, that it just seemed like you're not like connected on sharing core values potentially. And the word compromise, when you talk to people in a relationship that don't know human design and they talk about what compromise means and looks like for people, I cannot, I can't hear it any other way other than don't be you, be what I want you to be. Don't be you, be what I want you to be. And I'm like, well, both of you could half become not yourselves and the thing that you think you want from the other person and it's not going to solve your problem. You're still going to separate and you're going to be this weird version of you where again, we got to tear down this block tower, get rid of all the parts that didn't fit you. There's your shattering all over again. Yeah, I think what's been cool in my partnership, you know, been together almost nine years and, you know, if Sophie's invited to something or there's some event that we both invited to and maybe early on she might have wanted me to come along. But if I'm not, if I'm not, there's no response. I'm just like, no. And then she's just like, okay, like, cool. Not like trying to manipulate me or be resentful. Like, why aren't you coming? Like, we just don't have any of that, you know? Taking some time. And I really, really appreciate that. I think, you know, her understanding me as a generator has really helped a lot. Totally. And vice versa. I wish people in relationships with, like people who are dating generators, if they could just understand the simple fact of if your generator has a yes response to do something, you want to be near them when that happens because you get to take in that satisfied sacral energy. But knowing what I know now, like I'm divorced from a generator from a long time ago, and I think, oh my goodness, like if I asked him to do something and he had a no and he was frustrated, like I'm not going to want to be near that. So immediately that tells me, like, you don't want to push the generators to do the things they don't want to do because they literally make frustrated energy. That hurts to be around. People think I'm full of shit when I'm like, just do what you want to do. Just do what makes you happy. And they're like, nobody actually wants to be able to do that. I'm like, yes, I do. Because I want to sit next to you while you're doing it so that I can drink this with a straw. I want to plug into you. Haven't you heard that? I'm walking around my plug. I need to go plug into someone who's actually satisfied. Like there's so many times, you know, like if my wife wants me to go shopping with them, like I don't want to, but like, you know, out of a little bit of guilt or like end up going along, you know, like no matter how much consciousness I bring to it, like it's a dumpster fire. You know, the thing within me is like, everyone feels it. Everyone feels it. Yeah. Yeah. It also brings up this conversation too. Like I'm thinking about partnership. Let's say one partner is asking the generator to like do certain things or clean or whatever. They just don't want to. And it's like, well, then things need to get done. So then you need to figure out how to delegate and maybe hire someone to do the thing that you don't want to do because you just don't want to do it. You know what I mean? [Speaker 2] (1:25:38 - 1:25:39) Like, and you'll have to learn. [Speaker 1] (1:25:39 - 1:30:02) But the thing is like, wait, sorry, what'd you say? You have to learn how to ask a better question. I don't ask my son if he wants to clean his room. Remember? Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like for me, like as a generator, okay, I might not want to like clean in the moment specifically, but like I definitely want a more stable, you know, connected familial system. I know this is going to take some load off my wife, et cetera. And I do want that. You know, so I want the higher value more than I want, you know, more than I care about the resistance to the mundane task. Same here. Yeah, I get that. That's a good way of looking at it, which is also what the question, how you would ask the question would get someone to do it as well. You know? I do a class where I take people through different quality questions. So we'll do like a series in the beginning where I go like, are you a generator? And you go, uh-huh, obviously. You know, like there's nothing there. I'm not asking if you have energy to go do the thing. It's like, yeah, I am that thing. And so we basically register like the most insignificant yeses and no's. And then I'll ask the next question. And then I'll ask it this or that. And then I'll ask specific to the energy of the channel. And then, and so the point is to get deeper and deeper and deeper into, oh, that's how to get a response out of me. Oh, I understand why this kind of question didn't do it. Or this kind didn't do it. And so what we do is, because one, most of y'all don't even go get someone to ask you. You think that you're going to respond to life. Most centers are like, oh, well, I had an idea. I'm like, yeah, that's manifesting. It doesn't really work that way. It has to be from outside of you. So number one, get things to come from the outside. Step two, get it to come from someone who has an idea of what to ask you, why they're asking you something. What's their motivation in asking you something? If I have motivation in asking you something, I'm literally sitting next to you being like, make me feel satisfied. How can I get you to say yes with energy so that I can drip feed myself something that feels really good? And so I am constantly trying to get a more energetic yes out of somebody. I really want people to understand like, oh, that's what's in me. Oh, like there's, it gets louder. It gets bigger. It gets, I mean, you're talking about the high value system. I think, okay, so what are these questions where I can get you to end up cleaning the house and feeling good about it? What do we need to figure out here so that you really like that? And at the end, you're so satisfied. And then what did you do afterwards with all of this extra time and energy that you had? And how satisfying was that thing? Because most of us don't get to that thing. Yeah. Yeah. Something you mentioned, because like, I do get lit up by my own ideas and I follow through on them and it feels really good. And like, I don't, they don't often come from outside of me. Like I can, I get, maybe it's the channel of inspiration. I don't know, but I get like inspiration, which lights me up, which I follow through with, you know? And is that manifesting or is that me responding? Can you give me an example of something? Like a business idea. I want to recreate something or I, you know, I want to write something or whatever, you know, I want to have a certain podcast guest on, like whatever it might be, you know? My guess is that it actually did come from outside of you, but just not in a way that was significant enough to register. Like you heard a podcast and thought, oh, I want to talk about something similar. Or you saw a piece of content and went, oh, I love to think about that stuff. Or I, but it's like, if I put you in a dark room with a blindfold on and then let your thoughts come to you and then said, now go take action on those things. I think we're going to hit a lot of resistance. Yeah. Well, I, yeah. And I agree because I feel like you're always, even with our business, oh, I looked at the website. You're responding to the website. That needs to change. Oh, I, you know what I mean? I read a book. Oh, there's a quote there. Okay, cool. Let me, you know what I mean? So, I think. Yeah, yeah, true. So, the subtle, subtle ways, yeah. Or we're always in dialogue. We're in dialogue. We're talking about ideas sometimes, you know, and then seeds are planted and then, you know. Okay. Really great example is, let's say I had to do something like, okay, you were in, I'm sorry, this is morbid. You're in a bad car accident. You can't work electronics. You're stuck in a hospital and you don't get to be visited very often. Basically, jail in a different kind of way. [Speaker 2] (1:30:03 - 1:30:03) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:30:04 - 1:30:18) How quickly you're going to be frustrated and then just depressed? Super, super, super low-grade depressed because ultimately what I've done is I've removed things for you to respond to. So, you live a life where there's lots of things to respond to. [Speaker 2] (1:30:18 - 1:30:18) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:30:18 - 1:31:17) But if I suddenly made it so you couldn't look at electronics, you can't have visitors, you can't leave the room that you're in, you can't. Can I, can I read books? Okay, books are great. You're like, all right, what else can I respond to, right? Where's another thing for me to respond to? And so, a lot of the times, it's not about trying to determine was that a response or not? It's that we live very busy lives that are always in response. And most of the time, if I have generators who are stuck in a manifesting place, they're spending way too much time alone, unstimulated. And what they think they're doing is getting creative when really they're just getting confused. Okay, let me ask you this question. Like, when it comes to like, child rearing, like, for example, you know, like a manifester mother, right? Like, it's said that manifesters need space, that she wants to be as conscious and as possible, you know? It's like, you can't really apply human design to that degree with children, right? [Speaker 2] (1:31:19 - 1:31:19) It's like... [Speaker 1] (1:31:20 - 1:31:35) I think that... Well, I think that you can. And really, where I'm walking into sticky territory here is like, are we talking about like, a newborn that's getting like, left alone in a crib because mom needs space? [Speaker 2] (1:31:35 - 1:31:36) Exactly. And I'm like, that's fine for her. [Speaker 1] (1:31:37 - 1:31:39) Exactly. Like, no conscious person is ever going to do that. [Speaker 2] (1:31:41 - 1:31:42) Well... [Speaker 1] (1:31:42 - 1:31:46) Somehow it's part of mommy's need it for a few minutes. Yeah, of course. [Speaker 2] (1:31:46 - 1:31:48) But I mean, I'm not talking, you know, like... [Speaker 1] (1:31:50 - 1:35:26) I think this is where the solar plexus is the point of our incarnation right now, because there are so many times where we walk into a conversation and something about us goes, I can't talk about this. This is wrong to talk about for some reason. And a lot of the times, I think that's going to be like, that the child isn't old enough to understand. But I think that we should definitely be talking to kids at higher levels earlier than we do. And especially in terms of feelings, emotions, and processing, and time. And so I know that you bring that to your family. And I know that your wife brings that to your family. And so your children's experience is going to be of emotional definition, which means that no matter how you feel, your kids have an ability to amplify that feeling and feel it in a really, really intense way. But in an unpredictable way, because they don't make it for themselves. And so you've got kids who have the possibility of going near different types of definition, being completely overcome with feelings that didn't come from them, and not knowing why they feel that way or what to do about it. And so the more direct we are with our conversation, even to a one-year-old, to a two-year-old, mom needs a minute to process. Mom is having a lot of feelings. She needs to be alone for a couple of minutes. Are you having a lot of feelings? What are the feelings you're having today? Do you need alone time to process? Do you need a hug to process? Do you need a show to process? What's your... And I think the more honest you are about why people need what they need, you're going to raise kids that are not only okay with giving a partner space, they're okay with asking for space. Very true. Sam, I've absolutely loved this conversation. I really appreciate you accepting our invitation and being here for the past 90 minutes. Any, I guess, final message that you might have to offer our audience here and also, you know, how people can contact you and, you know, be in touch with some of what you're offering. Well, I'm pretty easy. I keep everything my name, Sam Zagar, Z-A-G-A-R. So Instagram is at Sam Zagar. YouTube is at Sam Zagar Human Design. My website is samzagar.com. I do classes or short-term packages with people. And I think what I want to leave people on, it feels personal. I think I probably want to talk about that alone time thing a little bit. Most of us are very afraid to be alone. And human design is really lonely in the beginning. If you're really, really afraid to be alone, especially if you have codependency stuff going on, you're going to have a really hard time with the beginning of human design. Because most of us experience a really big change to our network, the people around us. You talk to your family differently. You talk to your friends differently. You lose a lot of relationships. And ultimately, you lose a lot of relationships that weren't quality. They weren't bringing you your signature anyway. And if you have a willingness to let go, there, ego, it's fleam. Willingness and let it go. That's what I'm here to teach people. If you're willing to let it go and sit on your little space rock and wait, either wait to respond or wait to be invited or wait to initiate or wait for your lunar cycle. [Speaker 2] (1:35:27 - 1:35:27) Wait at your wave. [Speaker 1] (1:35:28 - 1:35:41) Yeah, wait. Wait and let the right thing come to you and use your authority to either accept it or reject it. There isn't going to be anything that's going to recalibrate your life faster than that. [Speaker 2] (1:35:41 - 1:35:42) Well said. [Speaker 1] (1:35:43 - 1:36:12) Thanks for having me. I really liked how conversational this was. Yeah, yeah. And I just appreciate you and the work that you're doing. And yeah, I look forward to like working with you in the future as well. And everyone that's listening, check out Sam and Zagar. She's a unique take and her delivery is really insightful and support her work. And yeah, maybe we'll have a conversation again at some point down the road. But yeah, wish you nothing but the best. And yeah, everyone, thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time. [Speaker 2] (1:36:12 - 1:36:12) Take care. [Speaker 1] (1:36:14 - 1:39:54) In 2020, I walked away from a family business that for most of my life, I was convinced was the only path available to me. I made a commitment to myself to find deeper fulfillment doing work that I was truly inspired by without selling my life force and potential short somewhere where it wasn't truly valued. I decided to study the tarot, astrology, and numerology. I learned the deep connections between these ancient archetypes, symbols, and our own psychology. I began to offer readings and packages to individuals with some incredible results. And for the first time in my life, I started seeing a return from something that I created. What a feeling. I was absorbed in podcasts that excited me. On one of those podcasts, I heard my now co-host, Yerasmos, and his wife, Sophie, two of the other head coaches in Rise Above the Herd, discussing the topic of awakening somatic intelligence on my own favorite podcast, Unslaved. I was so inspired by this conversation that I reached out to Yerasmos on Instagram and we soon struck up a friendship. We quickly realized that this was a once-in-a-lifetime connection of real depth with an astonishing degree of shared values. We both wanted to start a podcast of our own, and so not long after, we recorded the very first episode of Hear for the Truth, Walking an Authentic Path. I was still doing divination readings at this point, but podcasting really excited me and I began to ponder how I can make this my career. After about a year of episode recording and audience building, Rise Above the Herd, our group coaching program, was born. Within two years of walking away from that family business, through following my inner guidance system, saying yes to synchronistic relationships, and adopting the principles and the processes of what we actually teach in Rise Above the Herd, I was able to supplement a $100,000 Australian dollar per year income and provide for a family of four. The following year, I relocated my entire family from Australia to Mexico where we now reside. See, authentic entrepreneurship isn't really about pumping it till it hurts. You can read all the Hermoses, the Grant Cardone's, the Russell Brunson's, the Tony Robbins, as much as you like. But unless you've dealt with yourself, unless you've truly uprooted the psychological weeds that fester and blur the truth between yourself and reality, then in my opinion, they aren't really going to give you the lasting results that you're looking for. There's a saying, self-knowledge is the root of all knowledge. And in my experience, this rings absolutely true. We've been programmed for thousands of years to live and act in a contradictory state to how we're actually designed to interface with ourselves and reality. Rise Above The Herd deals with that programming with proven effectiveness over the course of six rounds now. This is the embodied knowledge that has led to our own success and evolution, succinctly packaged in eight weeks of radical transformation. And the truth is, for what our students get in this program, the opportunity to shift the trajectory of your entire life with three head coaches who have put in the hours and walked the path for the price point that it's made available at, this is a massive deal. If you're serious about long-term transformation and really moving the needle forward on the actualization of your deepest inner dreams and potential, then the doors to round seven of Rise Above The Herd are now open with a very nice bonus available to the first 10 who sign up this round. Thanks for listening. Much love. [Speaker 2] (1:40:06 - 1:40:09) I'm in a DeLorean fast forward in evolution.