Dawn Lester The Magic of Life

[Speaker 1] (0:00 - 0:18) Hello, Eurasmus. Hello, Joel. Well, it seems as though we're here for another episode of Here for the Truth. We are. We are. It's a blessing that we get to do this and have awesome conversations with lovely human beings all around the world. And we have another one for the next conversation. [Speaker 2] (0:18 - 0:18) Absolutely. [Speaker 1] (0:19 - 2:10) Welcome, everybody, wherever you're listening to this, in your car, on our website, with headphones on. We're glad that you're hearing our voices right now, and we're glad that we get to have another conversation that's inspiring, and that hopefully sparks something within you to make a different decision, to open up new, expansive pathways in your life. That's why we're here. And that's why we believe Here for the Truth, for us, is the ultimate mantra in many ways. It really is a grounding force to constantly remind ourselves that the truth is the highest path, and to me, is the ultimate self-development tool. And that's the reason that we do this, and we have these conversations. And today, we've got Dawn Lester in the house, author of What Really Makes You Ill. But definitely, as you'll see throughout this conversation, has much broader insights to offer than purely in the health sector. I would say, on a quick note, rise above the herd, round eight, doors are now open. We'd love to see you inside. You know, for us, it just keeps getting echoed back to us every single time that we do this, how powerful this work is. The breakthroughs that people have and the trajectory, life trajectory shifts that people experience as a result of doing this course is really, really, really humbling for us every single time. So if you want to do the nitty-gritty work of getting deep into understanding your purpose, unfolding the mystery of life, developing more psychological wholeness, doing authentic shadow work, developing true self-esteem that will empower you for a lifetime, then Rise Above The Herd is our eight-week group coaching program. And you can learn more about it by clicking the link in the show notes. We're at riseabovetheherd.co, limited spots as always. And I'll leave that with you. Enjoy this episode. [Speaker 2] (2:11 - 2:19) You are now listening to the Here For The Truth Podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Yerasimos. [Speaker 1] (2:22 - 39:24) All right, everybody. Welcome back to the Here For The Truth Podcast. Another incredible guest with us today. We have Dawn Lester. She's a researcher and writer. She's co-author of What Really Makes You Ill, published in December 2019, as well as two books published in 2010 under the pen name N.O.R. The events of 2020 and beyond have inspired her to look deeper into the meaning of life and the true nature of our experiences. Her ongoing journey of self-discovery has inevitably led to the reexamination of some of the most difficult experiences of her own life, including her cancer diagnosis and subsequent treatment. Through studying modalities such as IFS, she's been able to gain valuable insights and view those painful past experiences in a light. Her current research is focused on various topics that assist her in deepening her understanding of life, which she believes involves learning how to integrate our understanding of our true nature as consciousness with living our lives as free and uniquely individual men and women. Dawn, thank you for being here for the truth. Thank you for inviting me. It's great to be here. As I said, I've watched a number of your podcasts, so it's great to actually be with you guys. Thank you. It's a pleasure to have you for sure. Yeah, it's great to have you here. You touched on some key moments briefly in that bio, but as you know, one way we always like to kick this off is by diving deep into your personal hero's journey. If you can expand a bit on some of those major transformative and catalyzing moments in your life. Yeah, thanks. I have only recently started talking about my experience with the cancer diagnosis, partly because I'd shifted away from thinking about it. Because again, I know that when you focus on something, you're putting the energy into it. I know that when people are in these support groups, that they're still focusing on the problem. So, I wanted to move on and get on with my life. So, I kind of shunted it to one side, but I realized there's some value in talking about it now, and hopefully, for other people as well. Because it wasn't so much the actual diagnosis, it was the fact that I went through the standard treatment. I had surgery, chemotherapy, radiotherapy, and I even went on Tamoxifen for a while. I know there's lots of statistics that say there's survival rates and all those sorts of things. So, in some ways, I'm privileged to still be here. But I know there's a purpose to all of that. And as I was saying just before, the more I think about it all, the more I see that there's a purpose for having gone through that, and to then still be here. And in terms of the hero's journey, I've only recently started thinking of it in that kind of context. I'd never seen it in that way. It was just, well, I got through it somehow and I'm here and I get on with whatever it is I'm doing in my life. It's just that, as I say, when I've been thinking about it, that kind of look at it and think, actually, yeah, there was something in that for me. And I suppose in some ways, it is a hero's journey to have come through it, because it was the catalyst that actually got me to make some major changes in my life. And at the same time, the changes I was making were to take me forward. But at the same time, in some ways, they were a reflection of how I'd felt when I was younger. So again, the start of the journey wasn't at that later stage. I think back to when I was younger, there's certain things that I was thinking and feeling, and I always felt different. And I think a lot of us who are in this kind of freedom space have had that feeling where we're not quite the same as everyone else. We're not happy to lead what you might call a normal life. There's something else calling us. I mean, when I was still quite young, I was regarded as being kind of off in my own little dream world. So I had to come back to reality. So I had to go back to being normal, as it were. So I was really kind of in a slightly different mindset from being normal, but I listened to everyone else and decided to do normal. So that's when I kind of trained as... I mean, it couldn't get more boring, could you, as being an accountant? If anyone's familiar with the whole Monty Python thing, you never want to be in a guest area with boring accountants. I tried that for a while, actually, for quite a long while. It didn't really suit me, but it was trying to do, if you like, normal. Got married, had a child, and then had the cancer diagnosis. But again, that's tied to nothing sort of isolated, nothing separate, is it? When you look, everything's interconnected. Because my husband at the time, we divorced many years ago, his mother was diagnosed with cancer. We came back to that from her honeymoon, to that piece of news. And a year later, she died. So obviously, there was that, the cancer thing being out there and thinking, because he was very attached to his mother, and it was quite tragic. He was very emotionally affected by it for a long time. So I had this fear. Oh, well, I hope that never happens to me. And of course, we know sometimes you can attract certain experiences through the amount of it. When was the timing? When did you get your cancer diagnosis? Because having these different screening programs and get called in to have screening. And at the time, obviously, I was more aware. So I had a screening, a mammogram in 1993 that came up with just benign. But two years later in 95, they said, not the same this time, sorry. So that's when I had surgery, as I say, chemotherapy and radiation. It was only one sort of set of chemotherapy. It wasn't for very long. And so yes, that kind of all that finished in about 1996. Now I decided I needed, I knew I needed to make changes in my life. So I started making some changes, some of them like lifestyle, food. I also knew at the time though, and I have no idea where it came from, but I absolutely knew my mindset was important and not to get drawn into the fear. I knew how I approached it, how I felt about it, how I thought about it, which is again why there's some merit to the support groups because you've got some other people going through something that you're going through and you're kind of not on your own. And then there comes a time when you just think, no, it's time to sort of make some changes, not to just sit in this place. And I was not really into victim consciousness, I don't think. I mean, obviously to a certain extent, but I wasn't feeling sorry for myself. I was pulling myself through somehow. The old inner critic sitting there, telling me what to do and say, get on with it, stop moping and just keep going. But I knew something wasn't quite right. And as the years went on, and then eventually in 2001, I just realized the problem was the way my life was going and the marriage just wasn't right and what I was doing. So I ended that, came out of that, made some other changes in my life, which led to meeting David Parker. And that led to The Nature of Reality book. And that research really helped me to understand what I was doing. And then that led to the research that actually led to What Really Makes You Ill that was launched in December 2019, just before 2020. So that was... Interesting timing. Oh, yes. Very, very good timing. Yes. And again, in the context of how things work out, looking back on it, I mean, it was absolutely perfect timing because the whole COVID nonsense gave us a platform to then speak about health. And again, as I said, at the beginning, I wasn't really talking publicly about the sort of cancer thing, just because it wasn't... I didn't think it was about me at the time. I was just trying to share the information about what's the nonsense of the whole idea that there was a pandemic or any of those kinds of things. So where was I? So again, moving forward with, again, making changes and then coming to where I am now. So that's not to say that I know a lot of people have gone through the treatment and not come out of it the other side. So it's very... I think part of it was very much... I think there's something called survivor guilt, isn't there? So not trying to say, well, look at me, I survived. It wasn't that. So I think that may have been sort of playing out in the early days of not wanting to make a big deal because I know it's pretty tough. A lot of people take the treatment, don't get through it. So... What was the specific cancer? It was breast cancer. Yeah. Did you have a prevalent experience of the fear of death come up through that process? And I'm wondering how your relationship with death has changed as a result as well. Really interesting because I've heard you talk about this. I've heard other people and I don't a... I don't think I had a fear of death. And I know that that's quite common. And when I say common, I mean that that's something that a lot of people have when they have this sort of cancer diagnosis. I think for me, it was a question of deciding to actually have a life, whereas I wasn't truly living. So it was... I think there were some times when I had a... He's a crossroads. Well, do you give in or do you carry on? And I never had that feeling of wanting to give up, even though there were some tough times. It was still a question of, no, I'm not giving up. I'm not giving in, keep going. Yeah. I mean, to me, death is just stagnancy. And very often now, our lives are in a state of stagnancy and decay without us even really labelling it that way or labelling it as though things are in a disintegration cycle. So that can be happening for years before someone gets a diagnosis as such. Yes. I mean, quite often it can be a wake-up call for making that choice of whether you want to live. And every time I had those kind of crossroads moments, I always chose life. It was like being in the middle of a story where, well, I want to know how this ends. It's like I'm not... It's like walking out of the cinema halfway through a film. I want to see how this ends. I mean, not that there is an end, but you know what I mean? I just, I'm not making a choice. The story's not finished. So for you, what does it mean to truly live? Yes. Fantastic question. It means to do everything that is... It's not just following the kind of standard path of go out and get a job and stuff, but it's to really understand what we are, what we're here for and to put it into action and to do something that is of benefit, not just for me, for everyone, to actually connect with my kind of greater self, expanded self and to really know that there is a purpose, there is something to do here and to find out what that is and to be the best that I can be at any moment in what I'm doing, how I'm speaking to people, how I'm interacting with people, what I'm doing, how I'm doing it. And it's an ongoing journey. There's never an end point. It's just carrying on and finding... But being open to new ways, to new paths, to new directions, to keep moving, not to get stuck. Yeah. You're definitely speaking our language. Yeah. And it's a heroic act every single day to do that, to not numb out, to not just regress into the dull comfort and convenience that most people are sold. And life's not all rainbow and roses and butterflies and yellow brick roads. It's a need to really live. We're deep in the mud here. We're deep in the fertile soil that sometimes is dark, sometimes is gross. It's really choosing to engage with that as consciously as possible and turning the light of consciousness on every single day of your life and every single interaction and every single moment as best as you can. My heart goes out to every human being. On that journey and on that path. Yes. As you say, it's not all sun and roses, even when you are doing what you love doing. There are always, I don't know if it's challenges, but there are opportunities to learn. And sometimes there are some dark moments and they're the ones that I always pull myself through by saying, well, you got through that. It's almost like, well, just get on with it. It's that inner voice kind of keeping me going, although it doesn't need to shout at me quite as much and quite as loudly these days. But occasionally, you just need that reminder of, come on, you can get through it. You're here for a reason and there's more truth to be discovered. So as you say, you're here for the truth. It's like, well, let's keep going. Let's keep finding out what's true, what we can do with it. And that's the point of what we can do with it, learning who we are and putting that into action. That's the exciting part, I think, about living. Why are you here? You've lived some years on this planet. Why are you here? What's your purpose so far that you've discovered? Well, I'm in the early stages of really discovering that and putting that into action. I feel I've got a role as a bridge, as what I'm looking into actually creating a program that does that to be able to speak to people. I've been told that with my manner, people feel kind of comfortable with me. This is something that's happened a lot throughout my life that people talk to me. I'm a good listener and over the years, lots of people have told me all their troubles and their woes. And so, I obviously can listen. Not that I tell people what to do either, and I can make some suggestions and ideas, but obviously people feel comfortable with opening up to me and talking to me. So, there's something useful to do with that. So, it's for people who are, I suppose, not at the stage of your audience, but people who are starting to realize there's something wrong with the world and are feeling somewhat overwhelmed. I know we often say there's kind of two groups of people. There are those of us who are awakening and looking at everything that's going on and moving forward. And there are those who are stuck and just aren't ready. I strongly believe that there's plenty of evidence I've gained over the last few years of talking to people that there is another group of people who are aware that there's something strange going on, that the world isn't the way we're told it is. But they're a little bit tentative and they're not ready to take these great leaps into all the information that we've uncovered. Because a lot of us have spent years diving into all these different rabbit holes and finding out what's wrong and the problems, as well as looking into how to move forward and what to do. But I think they're taking their first tentative steps. So, it's finding ways to reach those people, to be able to speak to them, to assure them that we're not these crazy conspiracy theorists. We're actually a decent bunch. We're just looking at life differently. We're not crazies. So, I think in some ways, my role being able to talk to different people and for people to feel calm and happy to talk to me and to come out of this strange place that we were told is how the world worked. And say, well, it's not, but it's okay because it's actually better than we were told. I love it. I mean, I agree. When I first met you at Music Sky, I just wanted to hang out with you and talk with you and give you a hug. Obviously, I respect you for your work that you've done in your book that you brought into the world, which came at the right time as a lot of people were starting to question germ theory, et cetera. So, yeah, I'm excited for everything that's going to unfold for you. Since you wrote that book, what have you learned and how has that inspired the new research that you're doing and exploring? Uh, well, the one thing I found is that a book, like a photograph is only a snapshot of a moment in time. And there's so much more to learn about how the body actually works. And there's a lot more that I've been learning about that and also about how some things aren't even the way we're in certain ways. I think ideas like cells, are cells the way we're made to believe? Are they actually there in the body in the same way? How the body actually functions that there's an electrical aspect. I mean, that's included in the book, but the things like with the biofield, the work of Eileen McKusick and how the energetics of our bodies and how we interconnect energetically and how that all fits in. So there's a lot more that I'm learning about those aspects. And of course that moves beyond the book. So again, it's learning the the different aspects of health and what we can do about it. And just the different, like you said, the different modalities of connecting how our emotions work, the effect of our ideas, things like the nervous system, how important that is to settle that. And obviously, with the work of Sophie's work, really important to understand that aspect of our bodies, not just our thoughts, but how it works physiologically, how that's all connected. So I've been diving into those kinds of areas. At the same time, I see myself as a bit of a big picture person. So I like to look at how all these different aspects fit together. So I tend not to go really deep down each different aspect. I mean, let's say rabbit holes, but I don't dive really deep. I look enough to understand how the concepts work and then I see how it fits together. So with looking at things like human design, I haven't gone really deep, but I can see that we are all unique. Because I've always thought that there's something to do with our astrological charts, being Pisces. And in some ways, I've always thought myself as fairly typically Pisces. And yet, I have an older sister who's, if I'd have been born a day later, born on her third birthday. So we're like one day apart, bar three years, but totally, totally different. And yet, we're both theoretically Pisces. And that's never made sense. And also the fact that you've got a twelfth of the population under the same astrological sign and we are all unique. So the human design aspect kind of, oh, yes, we are all unique. We have all got something different about us from other people who may be born even on the same day, but a few hours later. I mean, again, also knowing that with genetics, we're not tied to our genes and even identical twins aren't exactly identical. There are differences, even though sometimes they can be somewhat more subtle. Well, there are these templates, you can look at these templates. But again, you still have to live life. You still have to interact with the world. You're going to experience, like twins are going to experience, they're not going to experience the same life experiences and the same traumas. And how does that then impact you? Obviously, you know, we're into Dr. Hamer's work, Germany Medicine. So even how does the specific traumas or how the constellations impact your personality? And so that differs. And so yes, like human design has a certain template. Astrology gets very deep and nuanced. There's so many elements to it. Joel can speak more on that. And yet you still have to continue to live life and interact with your environment, interact with the people that are there. And so like the amount of potential that exists in terms of how that will impact you moment to moment, month to month, year to year is so vast. Yes. And as you say, every moment is different. The other thing we, I mean, I'm not going to go like into it, but the whole thing with the virology and the cell culture experiments and the idea of having a control. And one of the reasons I think it's virtually impossible for the medical system to understand the human body is because there's no such thing as a control because you can't control for any one aspect of the human body because it's not just the physical bits that they take out and then they test in their experiments. Because there's so much more, you know, and there's consciousness and there's so many other influences. So I actually thought the only way to have a true control would be to clone somebody. Except of course at the minute there's a clone, there are differences because the environment, the thoughts, the ideas, whatever that makes up that individual clone would start being different. And so, it's impossible to be exactly the same. And also in the context of the experience of, as I like to call the creative force, all that is, because I think that's just all-encompassing from the perspective of all that is. Why would you want to duplicate any experience? You know, we're all different to have the different experiences, to share the different experiences. What would be the point of any kind of repeat, exact repeat? Because that doesn't add to the experience that it wouldn't be- It's redundant. Yeah. Okay. I was going to say it wouldn't be useful. I was finding it slightly softer, but yes, it'd be redundant. So again, everything changes in each moment and we can change in each moment. And so, we make the best of where we are in each moment without being tied to the past, which also was one of the reasons I thought, well, I didn't want to talk about the cancer experience. But again, it has its usefulness for me personally, and also talking to other people when they go through, if they're talking about difficult situations, I say, well, I can sympathize, empathize. I've been there and I found ways through it. So, it's from that perspective. Yeah. It's very inspiring too, I think. I think when you share a piece of your story and your struggle, I mean, that's where people feel connected. And if someone is earlier on the path than where you are in terms of they're now dealing with a health issue or they're dealing with something else and they go, oh, wow, here's this lovely human in front of me who has persevered and who has gone through this and who has lived and who has survived. In a world that is always trying to beat you down and talk about all the bad things that are happening and scare you, and then to have a voice and to have a person to be like, no, I did this. And so, I just think it's important that we share the things that we've moved through and that we've worked through and that we've overcome. It connects us and it's extremely inspiring. And it makes us more human, because especially when you're in this world where you're on podcasts or you have a podcast or you write books or you do things, you get projected on very easily. Like, oh, you're at this place or you have these answers. And it's like, we're just three human beings trying to do life. We're just doing it. Okay, maybe some people know who we are, but I cry, I hurt, I deal with stuff. It's not always roses and butterflies, as Joel said. And that's what I think connects humanity is the vulnerability. The vulnerability that you share and that someone sees in you is extremely powerful and it's what links people together. And especially when that vulnerability is balanced, it's not just like you're taken over by it and you're just wallowing in victimhood, but when it's there and you're connected and there's your heart open and you're sharing something, it's something else. To me, vulnerability is just the word that we've given for realness, for authenticity. Because it's so unusual when someone's so real and so authentic, we just say, oh, they're being vulnerable. Like, nah, man, we're just being open, we're just being real. And that's the breeding ground for intimacy, that's the breeding ground for connection. But there's a realness that's not vulnerable. Do you know what I mean? There's authenticity that's not vulnerable. I'm authentically playing a sport and I'm in the zone and I'm killing it. I might not be sitting there with tears coming down my eye. So there's a different part, there's a different taste. I hear what you're saying. But you can't have vulnerability without realness. It can't exist. You're not being vulnerable then. When someone says you're being vulnerable, it's like, oh, they're showing me the deepest parts of themselves. They're being more real. They're showing me more realness than I've ever seen. I hear you, but I was just commenting on saying vulnerability is just, they're authentic. And it's like, there's more to that. That's what I was trying to say. I agree it's a unique aspect of authenticity, but to me, it's an extreme aspect of it as well. Donna, what do you think? I think these conversations are extremely useful and it shows humanness and it's not about... I know you've been in the film industry, you know how fake that can be. So these conversations show that we are human and we're not pretending that we know it all. We've got the answers. You know, we might be able to help with some direction and this is what we've experienced. Well, this was the other thing again. When I was a child, I'd never like being told what to do. I mean, I was the... Sorry, Lee? Sorry, I was saying 6'2 profile. It's okay, continue. Well, yes, as I've been discovering. But I was more the sort of shy and I wouldn't ounce back or anything like that. But I do remember that if I was doing something and I was then told to do it, it was like, it lost it for me. It was like, I didn't want to do it anymore because I'd been told. So there is that, there was that. So because of that, I wouldn't dream of telling people what to do. But at the same time, that's the kind of the voluntarist type attitude anyways. Well, we choose what we want to do. Even though I was a bit of a hippie, I mean, I never went into a commune or anything, but I didn't like the idea that everyone was the same. So I've never liked that. So there were certain things that I've had views on, not always expressed because they weren't necessarily in line with everyone else. But I suppose, the more I discover, the more I think, oh, yes, I used to think like that or those kinds of things. So that's what I mean about bringing the past in into kind of, well, that's useful because that's stood me in good stead. And the other thing is being able to see two different points of view and not agreeing with either of them. I mean, again, because I mean, I'd say when I was younger, I was quite shy and timid, but I'd never speak. I always thought I was sitting on the fence and you're supposed to take sides or you're supposed to come to some kind of, you're supposed to agree with somebody. I was like, well, I can see both your points of view, but I don't agree with either. And I think now it's really useful. And especially in terms of what's going on in certain parts of the world and the way the whole system is designed to draw us into taking sides, being rah-rah for one side or the other, and understanding that that's partly to do with our own inner conflicts. And again, getting that balance of seeing what's out there, really feeling for what's happening. And at the same time, recognizing that there's something for us to deal with internally in terms of either the conflict or whatever that means. So, yes, these are definitely interesting times and I don't have the answers. That's a very Piscean quality as well. People call it ambivalence, but when done consciously, it's like this conscious ambivalence, recognizing that there are two sides to an equation and not really staking the flag in the ground too hard either way. It's quite a Piscean trait that you're talking about there. Oh, right. Oh, so I am Pisces. Yeah. So, I can't remember some of the other traits, but anyway, as I say, I used to think it was a weakness that I wasn't taking sides and yet now I can see it's actually really useful because it means you can stay calm. And again, from the big picture perspective to be able to sit back and that doesn't mean to say I'm cold hearted. I'm not. I'm emotional and again, emotional authority. So, I do feel these things. It's a question of how you allow yourself to get drawn in. And that's the whole point of seeing how things work and not being drawn in. And at the same time, being able to have conversations with people where you're not allowing yourself to be pulled into what they're trying to encourage you to side that they're trying to get you to take or that kind of thing. So, yeah, I think it requires some kind of being tactical or being tactful. Sorry, not just tactical, but tactful as well, diplomatic, how you choose to engage with people. And that's an ongoing journey because it's just new opportunities to think about these things differently all the time. Now, a short break from the episode. [Speaker 3] (39:25 - 39:42) So, Rise Above the Herd was a significant turning point for me. I guess I'd been playing small, hiding in the shadows, flying under the radar a little bit these last few years. And it really gave me the courage and the confidence to come out and stand fully in my light, speak my truth. [Speaker 2] (39:43 - 39:58) Thank you, Joel and Erasmus, for creating Rise Above the Herd. If I hadn't done this course, I wouldn't be focusing on myself, building my self-esteem, learning new skills. And the cherry on top is being connected to like-minded individuals who are all amazing creators and now my friends. [Speaker 1] (39:59 - 47:16) Rise Above the Herd Round 8, our 8-week transformational group coaching program for truth seekers. Decondition from disempowering ideas, develop authentic self-esteem, do real profound shadow work, and get on with discovering your life's purpose and actually walking that path, taking action in building that reality. Spots are filling up very fast. To learn more and join the program, head to riseabovetheherd.co or use the link in the show notes. Back to the episode. Yeah. It's interesting to think about because I think during the 2020 and COVID era, there was an element of moral objectivity, which was very much so honed and sharpened during that period. Everyone was in very distinct camps and it seemed as though it was the moral source right thing to do. It was in terms of the clear distinctions. We all definitely picked a side. We didn't just sit there and be like, oh, yeah, maybe there's something right about the vaccines. Maybe there's something right about the mandates. We weren't having that experience. No, no. There are some times where you make decisions, you come down on one side. Yes, I wasn't suggesting in all cases. Thanks for pointing that out because I don't mean in all aspects, in all areas where there was something you needed to think about. Having spent years looking into the whole health thing, I knew that there was no such thing as a vaccine that did anything of any use. So there was no question of which side to take. But I didn't even see that as sides though. So I suppose I hadn't seen it in that perspective. It was more, well, what's true? It's always the kind of, where's the evidence? Is there any? No, there's none. I mean, one of the interesting things in the research was the fact that there were so many contradictions. I used to love finding them because that was the kind of my little gotcha moments. They're contradicting. So they're okay. So if they're contradicting themselves, they haven't got a fixed narrative. So that meant that there was always something to question. So pointing those out, exposing those was really useful. But no, I mean, there are certain points where you just say, no, there is no kind of either or or sitting back. There are always points where you do have to make decisions. And yes, knowing there was nothing to fear from any kind of microscopic nonsense flying around and zipping through masks and all that stuff. It's just crazy, craziness. And at the beginning, I was fired up by it all and looking at things in a certain way that I have shifted that into being more thoughtful, more compassionate for people who fell for it unwittingly. Yeah, or maybe I made a different choice based on their personal experience or their knowledge at the time. And I think that's important because I remember in 2020, the things I was sharing and where my energy was at, I was much more self-righteous. Now, part of that too is because I felt like I was being threatened. I was being ostracized. I was considered a lesser human being. I was not allowed to live as a normal human being in a certain way. And that struck at a vulnerability of mine and I chose to kind of not run away from it. But as time passes and gain more objectivity and a little bit more compassion, and I don't think my purpose is to sit there and just be pointing the whole time I told you so. Or like, you did this thing, now you're going to die. I'm not a doom and gloomer because again, here we are talking about the power of consciousness. Like the power of consciousness and mindset and how does that impact the body and what's happening in the body. Sure, there are things and mechanisms in place that can impact you and poisons and things like that. But control what you can control. And so, if you're going to live in fear about a decision you made in the past, that's not going to support you either. And so, how can you shift your thinking around, hey, maybe you come to a realization to go, I did something for reasons at the time that I don't align with anymore and I can't really just sit with that anymore. I can't judge myself and hate myself and worry and be afraid. I have to take the next steps in my life and I have to live with feeling more empowered and that my body is an amazing miracle and my consciousness can impact so much and move that way. So, I don't think it's beneficial to tell someone who made a different decision that all the horrible things that could happen. I see that going around and I'm like, what benefit does that do? None. And that's one of the problems with some of what's called alternative media, although I don't know that it is anymore. And well, I'm not quite sure how to label it, but it's just as bad as the mainstream, but their fear mongering is in a different direction, but they're still coming up with this doom and gloom. So many people were saying, it was a few years ago that anyone who'd taken the vaccine was going to die in three years. I was like, oh, wow. I mean, that was just outrageous. Because we know the power of consciousness, the nocebo effect, how powerful that is. I mean, some people in the medical system actually call it medical hexing. It's the bone pointing. Oh, that definitely was a big thing in the early HIV AIDS years too, because if you were given that diagnosis of HIV in the 80s, it was pretty much like, oh, my life's going to end. You were considered having leprosy and to be kept away, don't go near that person. And so talk about the nocebo effect and the medical hexing, that was huge, huge. Oh, absolutely. And that wasn't helped by the toxic drug that they came out with. No, AZT didn't help. No, no. I mean, that really made it worse, but it just shows how powerful the whole medical system can be when it's telling people that you've got this, whatever, and you're going to get a disease and this is going to kill you. And I mean, it's, well, there aren't words to describe what an awful system that is, that actually calls itself a health system. It's the upside down world. [Speaker 3] (47:16 - 47:16) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (47:17 - 49:36) And it is the upside down world. And obviously, the more of those kinds of contradictions that we point out to people as nicely as possible, those who aren't kind of quite there yet. And just say, have you looked at this? Have you thought about this? Are you aware of this? And just slowly help them come to their own conclusions. But that's the point, not giving them information, but helping them choose for themselves. Like you said, when they may have made decisions and think about it and choose differently. I know people who have taken vaccinations for certain reasons and just said, no, no more. In fact, actually, the more I've heard people are saying, no more. So, there is a lot, as I said, a large swathe of people who are really slowly coming out of that kind of mainstream because they can see just how much is going on. It's just wrong. It's obviously wrong. It's ridiculous as well, some of the stories and the fact that it's pushing fear all the time. And people just say, no, no, no, too much, too much. But some people still share lots of stuff on social media. And so, you know, it doesn't help because it keeps this overwhelming place, which again is not healthy because it keeps the body in stress, the nervous system. And people just can't function when they're under that stress. You can't heal when you're in a sympathetic state. No, no. And like you said, the body is an amazing organism. It heals itself. And that's a big eye-opener for many people. The body heals itself. What do you mean, I don't have to go to the doctor? No, it is. Everything has been inverted. So, we're kind of pushing it to turn it back to how it should be to say, no, this is what's natural. This organism can look after itself. We have to do something to help it though. There's quite a few things we need to help. [Speaker 2] (49:36 - 49:36) Yeah, of course. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (49:37 - 51:15) I mean, it's not just living and doing nothing, especially if you haven't done the work to shift your mindset and to do the work to build greater capacity within your nervous system and find your purpose in life and have relationships that are fulfilling and nurturing. You know what I mean? So, it's not just like, okay, I'm going to stop going to the doctor. You know what I mean? There's so many elements. There's a holistic view of this. So, I hear you. I mean, the medical complex is very much so dependent on a disempowered population. And I think that's why Big Pharma and Big Media are a match made in hell in terms of continuing to allow that thing to prosper. And I think when someone comes to the decision of, I no longer need a doctor, it's almost the symptom and the combination of so many other life choices to empower oneself. And then there's the finality of, you know what, I don't need that anymore in my life. I don't think it's the first step, even though it would be really useful if more people kind of said, actually, you know, but I think what they tend to do and it's because, I mean, unfortunately, so many people are on so many different meds. I mean, it's just crazy. And one of the sort of steps is to start realizing that they don't need them or that they're not helping them. But of course, then you've got to, or people have to kind of work their way as to how to come off them. And I'm not telling people how to do that or anything like that. [Speaker 3] (51:15 - 51:16) Yeah, me neither. [Speaker 1] (51:17 - 57:08) Yeah, this is not medical advice, you know, all that stuff. It's just realizing... There's something screaming at me throughout this conversation, which is that your second book is going to be called What Really Makes You Healthy. Oh, okay. Maybe it'll be a smaller one. So, yeah. Yes, and it's not just the food. It's not just your lifestyle. It's not just the toxins you avoid. It's not just the non-native VMS. It's all combinations of all of them. And because we're all different, actually, maybe that would be a thick book because it needs so many different aspects, and because we're all different in different combinations. And that's why it's not actually easy when people say, well, if it wasn't a virus, what was it? I mean, that's the first mistake. I mean, I know we said we weren't going to go into it, but it's more the big picture. But it's because there isn't an it. They're looking for an it because people are so used to thinking that there is a problem with a solution. There's one thing... Reductionist. It's so reductionist. Exactly. But that's the indoctrination system that we all grew up in that's called school. And so, we're really stuck with these ideas of one problem, one solution, instead of realizing that we have to look at, I mean, not even problems, but whatever the situation is. And each of us has got a unique solution to our own lives, and we have to take responsibility back. And that, again, is a key problem for many people. Actually realizing that they have the responsibility, which requires, and this is not patronizing, but it requires people to realize that they've been kept in a very childish state, because they've been told what to do and they've given the rules and they've kept small. And it hasn't allowed them to really grow up and say, no, no, I'll do things for myself. Thank you. I'll make my own choices. And this is where we are. I think we're learning. We're coming out of that and saying, no, actually, I'll make my own choices. And so, we're all unique in finding whatever those choices are and that direction is and what works for us. And again, I'm not going to go into the diet thing, but different people respond differently to different diets. So, I don't think there's any one, any way of anything. It's whatever suits you. And sometimes something that suits you at one stage of your life might not suit you at a later stage or at a different stage, or depending if you move to a different part of the world. I mean, have you noticed changes because you've moved, Joel? You're now in a different country. He's much happier because he's closer to me. So, that's one of the big changes that I think is impacted. But yeah, I mean, it's a completely different environment, like surrounded by new nature, new flora, new fauna, new everything, new ways of cooking food, etc. So, yeah, there's a huge adjustment period that took place initially in moving here. Yeah. I haven't gone super deep into this element of human design, but human design goes to really deep aspects of what's the ideal environment for you to be in? What's the ideal eating pattern there's different patterns that go into it. Some people are more meant to eat hot foods, some are more meant to eat cold foods, some people are more meant to like, there's just, it's wild. And I haven't delved too deep into it. So, again, it's information. People can experiment with it because that's what this is. Life is an experiment and see how that impacts you. So, back to what you're saying. It's like there isn't this one size fits all for anything because we're unique. We have unique consciousness. We have unique traumas. We have needs and wants and desires. It's insane to me that like, no, take this one little pill and that will solve the problem. And that's it. And if we give it to a million people... This is why self-knowledge is so fundamental. And no one can do the work of acquiring self-knowledge except for the individual self that's embarking on that endeavor. And you can't have self-trust without self-knowledge. You can't have self-esteem without self-trust or self-knowledge. And I think this base system is so dependent on the lack of trust that people have within themselves. And reclaiming one's personal power requires bit by bit, extricating ourselves from that system and reclaiming our own ability to be responsible for ourselves as we reclaim that power. And it's an individual journey for every single person. And I think listening to podcasts like this helps inspire people. And people are all on their unique journeys and they're going to come across the information or the speaker or the research, whatever it might be that's required at that time for them to reclaim that level of power. But yeah, there's no... Just like there's no one size fits all cure, there's no one size fits all method for being who you are either. Mm-hmm. No. With what you were saying about different sort of hot foods, cold foods, things like that, that ties into the Ayurvedic system, isn't it? The doshas? Yeah. I mean, it's not related to that, but I'm sure obviously it makes sense in the sense that different body types, different people are meant to process things in unique ways or have different constitutions. Yeah. I think it's mostly related to digestion specifically. I could be wrong on that. [Speaker 3] (57:08 - 57:09) Yeah, it is. [Speaker 1] (57:09 - 1:15:58) For example, for me, it's recommended that I eat only in calm environments, which is difficult with young kids, but that's the recommendation. But for example, my eldest daughter, her digestion in human design is called alternative appetite. And this is so obvious. She creates the craziest matches. She'll put tomato sauce on a blueberry and enjoy it kind of thing. It's super weird. But she doesn't know anything about this information. Yet she displays these qualities so naturally. So there's something there, I think. That's the thing with children. I was going to say, allowing children to do what is natural rather than telling them what to do and observing and obviously only kind of checking if you think there's something that they may get themselves into some kind of difficulty. But otherwise, just sort of watching them because we can learn so much from them as well. Because certainly in the early years, they are really tuned into nature, sort of expanded consciousness in ways that we've sadly lost. But I think, well, not entirely lost. Then we can find our way back to understanding things if we learn how to tune in. But it does take quite time and just being able to intend to tune into those other areas. But again, watching children and the way they interact and what they do and how they see things. That's the way we can start learning more about who we are and what we can do. And then start implementing those things for ourselves, really kind of getting more back to nature, recognizing nature, being part of it and connecting with it. I don't have any small children around me to watch, but that would be interesting because they have what are called imaginary friends. And of course, they're not imaginary to them. And calling them imaginary is kind of taking away part of their experience and sort of denying what their experience actually is because that's what they're experiencing. I mean, it's very interesting. Yeah, it's like this pure unfoldment of being that you observe in children. Again, I'm not around them often, but it's very interesting to see their essence come through. When you're into these different systems or astrology or numerology or whatever, you can see some of these patterns. It's cool to see. And it's not just the essence. I know in your bio, Dawn, you mentioned you're into IFS. You see the distinction of parts. So purely, being able to switch from having an exorcism into being like an angel within a two and a half minute time span. It's so important, I think, to understand parts work when being a parent and when raising children because we can so easily conflate an individual without recognizing the differential that happens through selves. Like, oh, you're such a bad girl or you're being so naughty or you're always this way or always that way. To me, that language is so damaging when you don't really understand the concept of parts. It's so limiting. It's limiting, yeah. It's so limiting. And again, it's like a person behaves in one way in a certain situation. And again, it lacks discernment. That's what I've talked about before where it's like, you're following someone or there's an author or a researcher that you're into and they say one thing that you don't like and you just throw everything that they've ever done out the window. And so then there's a human being in your life who says one thing or does one thing from a certain aspect of them. And then you're like, okay, you are a horrible person. Like, all of you is horrible. And it's just, that's not the reality. Now, again, if a person continues to act certain ways, okay, you get your data and you can make your decisions. But we are so complex. We contain multitudes. Like, this work was foundational for me, parts work, not Richard Schwartz's work, but the works of Drs. Hall and Sidra Stone in my 20s, studying as an actor, but also like it impacted me as a human being because it allowed me to understand the nuances and what was happening within me. And there was like a structure to it and understanding that was really powerful. So, I'm such an advocate of parts work. And I think it allows you to have so much more compassion for yourself as well. Anyways, please share your thoughts on that. Yeah. The IFS allowed me to recognize, as I was saying before, with my inner voice saying, oh, kind of pull yourself together. Whatever it was, these are the different parts. And again, you can say inner critic, but at the same time, it was a part that was really helping me to keep going. That was obviously a strong part that was not just being critical. It was really, really encouraging to say, it was almost the voice that was saying, you can do this, but in a way that really got me out of where I was. So, I didn't recognize, I mean, obviously looking back, I can see that that's what those parts were doing. But again, to even, as you say, see all the different parts and not to even think of any of them as being bad. They're just aspects of you and you have a look at the role they're playing and see how that helps you with wherever you are and what information you can get from that and how you can learn and how useful it is. Sometimes it can be useful to have something that is not necessarily the love and light type part to get you out of a certain way that you're moving or the certain ideas that you're having. Again, it's this good and bad, right and wrong. I mean, yes, there are polarities at the same time. There are nuances where you can not necessarily see something like anger, for example. I mean, when I was, again, growing up, there was a lot of anger and I didn't like it at all. It's not so much, and I've learned that it's not so much the anger, it's what people do with it. So, that's changed my perspective on anger. So, there is an emotion that is described as anger and it's what people do with it. So, it's not to suppress the anger, but it's also not to then throw it out at people around you because then you're just projecting and you're upsetting people. Well, you don't have to be very… Oh, sorry, continue. No, I was just going to say, and you have to look at why you would want to then do that. Yeah, and I think many people who explode in anger don't have conscious relationships with the more vulnerable parts of them. They don't have a relationship to that. And so, the ultimate benefit of a part of you that can be angry is that when you utilize it consciously, it can benefit you in so many ways. I use this term often, the homeopathic dose. A homeopathic dose of anger can allow you to speak your truth and set boundaries and not allow someone to walk all over you and to assert your needs. And this works with all the other different parts as well, because they can, if they're repressed for so long, they can come out in very demonic ways and that can hurt your life or hurt other people. But when you can kind of put your arms around them and embrace all these different parts of you, and often in life stand between the tension of opposites when certain circumstances present themselves, you bring more consciousness to it. You can actually have more choice in your life. And that's huge because people conflate awareness with consciousness. And they're not the same thing. Awareness is just a detached knowing of a thing, but it may not help you engage and communicate differently and behave differently in life. Yeah, it supports you, but being able to understand there's a multiplicity within and that different parts of you might want to engage in different ways and then to act from a more conscious place, that's just different than just saying, oh, every time someone says this to me, I always get angry, but you're still doing it. You do it and do it and do it and do it. So, you're aware that this act gets you angry, but what are you doing about changing the behavior? And this is where there's other more subtle work that needs to be done. Yeah. But this is like where we have the opportunity to have more free will in our lives as well. And free will really is just conscious choice. And when we're able to gain more access to these parts, because most people are very much living one dimensionally or within like 20% of the range of emotions and parts that are available to them. But as we do this work that Yerasmus is mentioning, we have access to, in Yerasmus's language, a far greater symphony, a greater orchestra of instruments to pull from and to respond from and to behave from and to adapt from. And life becomes so much more interesting when we're able to do this consciously. It was more full. And also what happens too is that like the more parts that you become aware of, you can see them in other people. You can have compassion. And instead of just projecting the disowned qualities within yourself onto other people, you're the bad one, you're the angry one, you're the evil one. When it's like, shit, I know the part of me that can get angry. I know the part of me that can lie, that can cheat, that can steal and manipulate. And so, oh, okay, that's interesting. Sorry, go. No, all I was going to say is, I mean, that is such an important point, the distinction between awareness and consciousness. So many people do say that consciousness, it means awareness. It's so much more than that. That was just, I just wanted to kind of emphasize how important that is because there's a huge difference. Yeah. I think about the astrological archetypes and all the breakdowns and the positive and negative sides of these archetypes and the gifts and the shadows and all the rest of it. It's like, this kind of gives us the map of all the parts that are accessible to us. You're Pisces, I'm Scorpio, he's Gemini. That doesn't mean that we're limited to that range. I think the goal is to be able to have access to the entire arrangement of archetypes that exist. And I think these different divinatory arts give us a glimpse into the traits and the qualities of the universe, which ultimately are available to all of us to activate within our own universe. Yeah. Yes, I agree that we're not limited to one aspect. It's just sometimes certain aspects may be slightly stronger. And that's the point of also identifying as something that is possibly limiting instead of, as you say, opening it up and recognizing that we are a complex mix of all kinds of parts. And it's a question of which one is appropriate to play at any one time. Like with the orchestra, I mean, it's a great example that certain compositions, there are certain instruments to the fore and others, some are soft and others are loud. It's not about good and bad. And again, moving that kind of language out of the everyday speech to see that we are complex and we can utilize all these different parts and incorporate all the different parts. And it's fine not to be allowed to be limited. Again, it's kind of putting us into our little boxes. Are we all this? And again, we may identify. I mean, yes, there are two genders and I'm not disputing that. So male and female, but otherwise there aren't too many separate boxes that we have to kind of lock ourselves in, which reduces our range of experiences that we can have. The more open we are to these different parts, we can have a different range of experiences and choose from them. Because again, you kind of may not want to do something or you may have an experience. I'll try that, didn't like it. Or I'll try that. Oh, I like that. I'll try that again. I mean, within whatever it is you're doing, it's to be flexible. Yeah. I think about the common saying that people have like, oh, he completely changed after we got married. Like she completely changed after we got married. Like, yeah, a completely different part is now more prevalent. Like this married self, you never knew before, and now you're having that experience with that self. It's like, we need to be able to give each other the grace to realize that we're all constellations in that regard as well. And we're all changing. Or we should be changing as we kind of develop and learn and experience and expand. So, yes. But I mean, yes, I hadn't thought of it in that way. But yes, you're right. Until you're married, you aren't a married self. So, it's a different role. Yeah. I read this quote from Gurdjieff on The Weekend, which is so relevant. I'm just loved. So, I want to share it now. He says, Man has no individual eye, but there are instead hundreds and thousands of separate small eyes, very entirely unknown to one another, never coming into contact, or on the contrary, hostile to each other, mutually exclusive and incompatible. Each minute, each moment, man is saying or thinking I, and each time his eye is different. Just now it was a thought, now it's a desire, now a sensation, now another thought, and so on endlessly. Man is a plurality. Man's name is legion. And I just thought that was so potent. And it got me just thinking like, what is the authentic self from that lens? What is the authentic eye from that lens? Yeah. My teachers, Hal and Cedric Stone, they wouldn't use the word authentic self. They wouldn't use it. Because it's like each part thinks it's authentic. And so, what's one's more authentic to the other? Now, if you look at again, like the stuff we talk about human design, and we talk about like, we have these templates that are authentically us. So, it's like these constellations that are ideally more us. Because I have a more default way of being because I say, Oh, I identify as a German, I have one generator or whatever. There's things that are more natural to me or more present. But again, they're different. It's what I said before too, if vulnerability is authentic. Okay, well, the part of me that's going to punch someone in the face, they're about to hurt a friend in the moment, that's fucking authentic too. The spectrum of authenticity. Yeah. So, it's very interesting. Yeah. But I mean, to be authentic, you have to be deeper in touch with this core essence of truth. So, the parts can have relationships with truth. And I think the spectrum of that relationship with truth is what determines authenticity. But whether there's a single authentic self, like, I don't know. Who we are in any one moment is the collection of parts in that moment. And because it's an orchestra, there'll be different aspects playing different levels at any one time. So, it's always authentic if you are... We'll say if, no, so that's putting a condition. I don't mean that. As we learn, as we grow, as we keep expanding and understanding who we are and putting that into effect, that will always change. There is a sense of self, if you like, with a capital S of our true nature that is kind of like doing behind. It's not behind, but it's... It's like a container. I think there's a container self that holds the selves. Yeah, the self holds the parts, if you like. It's just, we get trapped... Self with a capital S. I know, it's all different words that are used to mean different things. But this is a fun conversation. It's interesting to think about. Yeah, it's the way I see... That's why I don't like to use self because it sounds individualized. Again, we're experiencing from an individualized perspective, and that's why I like to use the term all that is because it's all encompassing. So, from that perspective, we can recognize that we are part of the all that is, and we're having an individualized experience that is changing all the time. It should, and allowing ourselves to change. Not thinking, I can't be different, because I'm supposed to be this or whatever it is and limiting. And like you say, allowing certain expressions. If somebody looks like they're going to be in trouble and you want to help them out, that it might take a certain part of you to just say, to hold the boundary, but maybe to take a step beyond what you would normally do in terms of boundaries. Or if somebody is about to... Something looks like it's about to happen, you drag them back, which maybe it wouldn't happen. Do you know what I mean? [Speaker 3] (1:15:58 - 1:15:59) I do know what you mean. [Speaker 1] (1:16:00 - 1:28:08) Impulses, these impulses. But at the same time, that's not how you act all the time. Yeah. No, not at all. And this is why people talk about shadow work and people talk about becoming more whole. This is the process. It's getting to know these different parts of you in a conscious manner. So, when the different life experiences present themselves to you, you have more view at your disposal to potentially bring more success in a situation. You know, like, if you're limited, if you're rigid, there's only a certain area of life that you can kind of dance in, you know, that you can move through. But the more expanded you are, you can navigate life way more gracefully, you know? You can navigate your relationships more gracefully and consciously. And so, I think that's important. It's really important work to meet these parts and to get to know them and understand why they came about. You know, because again, different parts of us come forth a lot of times because of different traumas that we've faced in our lives. And so, there's a history to these parts, you know? So, it's like you have like the archetypes, which are universal, but then the parts are much more personal in a lot of ways in terms of how they manifest within you as an individual. Like you mentioned individual before, it's like, yes, we're an individualized expression of this all that is of source. And yet, within that individual expression, there is this multiplicity, there's this plurality, which is fascinating. And I think also like self is a verb, you know? Consciousness is a verb, like this is an ongoing process. Like the evolution of consciousness, this experience, it's mutating, it's fluid. We're constantly grasping new information and experiences and evolving as a result. So, you know, it's not this stagnant noun, self, you know? It's like, no, I'm changing constantly. Yeah. Yes, I was going to say that's the other aspect is to recognize change and to be able to embrace it rather than be fearful of change, you know? And I mean, obviously, you know, not everyone wants sort of all types of change, but it's to recognize and to be open to the possibility. And again, like with music, you know, you can draw a parallel because there's no limit to the types of music that can be played with, you know, a variety of instruments and, you know, some will be more prominent at some times and some won't be. So, you know, again... And isn't that the magic? Isn't that the magic of life? Isn't the magic of the experience? Isn't that what lights you up more than anything else? The fact that there's all these experiences, all this depth that exists out there, but also in here and all this different stuff that I get to feel and be and respond to and create, you know, like to me, that's the juice. That's what excites me about living, about having this conversation, about being here more than anything else. It's like, give me that. I want that. I want to use it. I want to transmute it. I want to be the alchemist of all these experiences and create magic. Yeah. It's, you know, well, what's possible? Okay. Let's see. Yeah. Rather than kind of, well, you know, I'm this, so I follow this, you know, to just open it all up. Yeah. And like the system that most of us are conditioned to respond in, it's very limited. It's lifeless. It's magicless. There's not much opportunity available in that for us to be able to have these expansive experiences. You know, the highways, as we often say, are pre-carved. You know, you go to school, you go to uni, you get the degree, you pick the standard job, whatever it might be, you know, but you're missing that juice. You're missing that fire in that. And the authentic path, which we constantly talk about, it's like, you're in the forest. This is the wilderness. Like the terrain is unknown. There's no path in front of me. I've got to chop down that tree. I'm going to step on that snake. I've got to, you know, go through the mud. But I'm constantly transformed through that in every single moment. And like, this is where the mystery is so beautiful. This is where being human really comes to life for me. And everything around us is designed to take that away from you, you know, and it's intrinsically linked to responsibility. You know, the authentic path requires you to be responsible. But we've been sold this idea that not being responsible and being convenient and being comforted is somehow, you know, the more meaningful path. And that's the lie. To me, that's the ultimate lie. The path, you know, that path of excitement, joy, magic is usually something we're made to fear. You know, it's like, oh, you can't, you know, it's the can't, you know, can't do. We're told what we can and can't do. So we're very much limited. And then we get that mindset or, you know, some people do, which restricts the experience. And then when they're told, well, you know, what would you like to do? It's kind of, oh, I'm not sure. I mean, sometimes it's like, I'm not sure because there are lots of possibilities. So it is forging that path forward. And again, talking about shadow work, I think, I mean, I understand why it's called shadow work, but I think sometimes people might get the impression because it's a shadow and shadows are usually dark, you know, it's shadow side, you know, you get the idea that it's only dark and some people might not want to look in those dark places. Now, sometimes it is dark, but it's not actually dark. Well, yeah. And I think it's important to look at those dark places. And yet shadow work also is about bringing forth your potential as well, like to reclaim the parts of you that are going to bring you closer to living your dream and doing the things that you want to do and bring you more joy in your life, you know? Because, you know, for many people, like the joy had been conditioned out of people. The light had been conditioned out of people. The magic has been conditioned out of people. And so, how do you bring that back, you know? It's not just talking about like the part of you that can, you know, do dark and other things, you know? It's all of it, you know? It's like what's present versus what do you not know that you don't know, you know? It's like, it's that. And then how do you bring that to light? Yeah. Like I think about again, like the orchestra analogy, like there's this whole section at the back that, you know, has never seen the light, like the spotlight's not shining on it, you know? And the shadow work is pretty much turning that on, you know, bringing life into that, gaining access to that. Yes. I mean, just shining the light on whatever parts of you that you've shut down or been told you can't, you know, this is kind of what you can't do or what you shouldn't be doing or how you've been repressed and put into a way of thinking that, you know, that you're not supposed to do something or, you know, being made too small. I mean, that's something that I had. I've worked my way through it and come out the other side. And I mean, part of that process actually taught me that I was putting the blame somewhere. And so, that took me a while to realize, oh, hang on a minute, you know, because if you're blaming then you're, well, I was just blaming. And so, I was perpetuating this whole blame mechanism. And so, recognizing that was just another step of shining a light on something that I hadn't seen as easily. It was just, you know, it had been said to me when I was a child and it was like, well, that wasn't a nice thing to say. But keeping that, so I said, well, I'm not that, but I hadn't got out of where I was there until I'd got rid of blaming. I mean, it was my mother, but I mean, blaming my mother and just having compassion, letting that go and saying, that was where you were. And it's amazing how that shifted, but that was a shadow I hadn't seen, if you like, that was a part I hadn't seen that I was still holding on to blaming her for that. You know, it's those kinds of things where you just, you know, oh, you have these little insights. And so, it's an ongoing journey and it's not, it's, oh, well, I've done the shadow work, I'm going to work to take that off. Forever. I mean, it just goes on until we take our last breath to some degree, because there's always a new moment to change, a new moment to experience something different. And then the might still go on. Yeah. So, yeah, it's so, you have to remain curious, you know, you have to remain curious. And again, what we've talked about this whole conversation, like the overarching umbrella is how can we shift more from those parts of us that are more personally responsible and not just be living from these parts of us that are more victim oriented. You know, doesn't mean we don't repress that, doesn't mean we push all that underneath. It's just what parts of us do we want more of that are going to guide us more consciously forward, you know, living the life that we deeply, deeply want. Taking us into the magic, as Joel was saying, you know, it's recognizing that it's magic and being able to really find the parts that help you forward and even recognizing the parts that, you know, may be kind of sending a little message that you just got something else to work through. So, and it's all magic. It's recognizing that it is all magic and it is a mystery. And, you know, not knowing is sometimes, you know, the major part of the magic, because if you knew everything, where do you learn? I mean, in the kind of bigger picture, if you like, it is all known. It's just, you know, we have free will, we make choices and we choose where we are in each moment. And that's where the magic lies, mystery and the joy. Yeah. And again, sitting with the unknown, not knowing the uncertainty that's in the realm of more of the more vulnerable archetype, you know, as opposed to knowing, you know, it's I know I have the answers. It's a different quality. And so I think the more people can open up to the not knowing, open up to the uncertainty and sitting with it and then what happens to you when you do that? Like, it's a whole different experience. Yeah. I mean, yes, the uncertainty is a difficult one for some people because, you know, they kind of... Difficult for me sometimes. My life theme in human design is the life theme of uncertainty. That's what it's called. Oh, okay. Well, if you're happy to embrace that, that's fine. I don't know if mine is, I have to have a look. But the kind of uncertainty, what was it? The waiting to respond because I always thought, oh, I'd love to be more spontaneous and thinking it was a problem that I wasn't just, oh, no, let's just do. And now I found that my, oh, what part is, oh, sorry. It's a strategy. Strategy. You can still be spontaneous, but it's in response. [Speaker 3] (1:28:09 - 1:28:10) Yes, exactly. [Speaker 1] (1:28:10 - 1:35:46) It's subtle, it's different. Yes, it is. And learning that strategy, sorry, I forgot the term strategy. Knowing that strategy has really helped me. I was like, okay, that's good. Because sometimes, in certain situations, it's like I don't respond straight away and just sleep on it the next morning and go, okay, and it's fine. And there are some times where you know it's right. I mean, I know something's right, I just feel it. Whereas other times, and it's really good to know that, that it's fine. And sometimes something else crops up and it's making decisions and it's right and you get a tick or things are wrong and you get across. So, you're supposed to know. Whereas the uncertainty is, you know, it's far more exciting. Dawn, I know we could keep talking for hours on different things and just kind of, you know, exploring life and what does it mean to be human and all that around the 90-minute mark. What's next for you? What are you excited about? And then, you know, how can people support you and your work? Well, as I said, sort of at the beginning, I'm kind of working on a program now, so I haven't got any specific details I can share with you at the moment. I do write on Substack. It's Dawn's writings, it's what it's called, it's dawnlester.substack.com. I've literally just put out a part two of an article that's what I've called the hidden effects of the pandemic because so much of it is how people have been affected mentally and the whole idea of mental health, which is another psyop, is sort of pushing the idea of mental health problems. And that's just because they've put people into fear and then telling them that they've got mental health problems. You go, well, you've caused it, but these are temporary situations, this kind of fear. So I just literally just posted the second part of that. It's just to help people see how they've been pushed into a fear-based way of thinking. Now it's not to say fear is again, like with our different parts, not we have to say, oh, fear is bad, but we shouldn't be made to be fearful of something that just isn't true. And the whole, whatever the pandemic was based on was not true. So it's helping people come out of that really. So yeah, that's the Substack. I mean, there's the website for the book, whatreallymakesyouill.com. And I think that's probably the main ways for people to find out. I mean, I'm only on Facebook. I mean, I don't do much of social media. So otherwise, yeah. And I mean, it's been great. Thank you. It's gone so quickly. It has gone very quickly. We're going to put all those links in the show notes. So for anyone that wants to get in contact with Dawn, please do so via the show notes. Dawn, from one six-two emotional generator to another, it's been a pleasure having this conversation with you. Appreciate you being here and appreciate the work that you're doing in the world. And nice to see your role model phase post-50 continue. And I'm excited to see what continues to unfold in that regard as well. Thank you very much. Thank you. It's been great. Big hugs, Dawn. Yeah. Much love and respect and can't wait to see you in person next time, whenever that is. Yeah, hopefully soon. And hopefully Joel as well one day. Yeah, we'll sort something out. We'll make it happen. We'll make it happen. There you are, see? See you next time, everyone. Post thoughts. Hey, everyone. Welcome to Post Thoughts. This is our new thing. You might have noticed the last few episodes, once it ends, we just share some post thoughts. So here we are again. We had another episode, another interview with Dawn Lester. Yeah, I love Dawn. I think she's lovely. I love the work that she's doing. I love the work that she's done. The book that she wrote before 2020 started to really highlight the germ theory lie. And yeah, it was great to finally have her on and have a lovely chat. And we went into a lot of different areas and things that are important to contemplate in terms of who we are. Why are we here? How do we expand? How do we tap into more of who we are so we can achieve the things that we want to achieve in our life, which is a big thing about what we do with Rise Up The Herd. It's our big focus. Yeah. Reclaiming the mystery, I think, has been a common theme throughout this podcast since the very first episode. And I think that's what keeps people young, in a sense. That's what keeps people in touch with their life force, their creativity, is really being connected to the mystery that is life and the mystery that is the fact that you're alive as a human being that has potential and that has dreams. And this is the process. This is, in many ways, it's like the goal is to not lose touch with that aspect of reality. And it's something which we've really tried to drive and echo home since day one. Yeah. And even back to what you said in the episode about stagnancy, think about life force that is stuck in all these repressed and disowned parts of you that are just there in the shadows that you have no awareness of. And I just think as we continue this self-reclamation, maybe not in the small way, but as we continue this part of reclaiming we are on a deep and nuanced levels, we gain that life force energy back. Yeah. And that helps us remain young. That helps us remain vital as we move through life. Yeah. And you can even think about it on a bioenergetic level, life force that's stuck in the body and that's trapped in certain areas and hasn't had a flow and hasn't had movement and isn't able to send the creative life force energy to other aspects of the body. It's exactly the same thing. And the work is done both ways, it's as within, so without. But yeah, we won't keep you guys too long on here. Rise Above The Herd, round eight. We're wrapping up another incredible round now as we speak. But if you're down to do this work and kick off the new year, January 8th, with a really positive, inspiring start to really ground you on your mission and your purpose and really bring you psychological wholeness in a pretty profound way, then riseabovetheherd.co or the show notes is the place to learn more about that. And we'd love to see you inside the next round. I'm loving the work that we're doing at Rise Above The Herd. It blows my mind that we're still doing this eight rounds later and we're getting more interest and better feedback every single time that we go through this process. So if you feel the call, I'm not going to push it too hard, but that's the place. Take care, everybody.