Om Rupani The Eros Equation: Why Long-Term Love Fades

[Speaker 2] (0:00 - 0:35) Everybody, welcome to the Here for the Truth podcast. Happy New Year. Welcome to 2025. I'm Joel Rafiti. Got your Asmos with me. We're kicking this one off with a bang for sure. We've got Omra Pani in the house, diving deep into man-woman relating, BDSM, dominant submissive archetypes within relationships, and basically, I guess, how these tools and these teachings can help and support long-term healthy relationships and family legacy. So I think there's a lot of value in this for everyone, for sure. [Speaker 1] (0:36 - 1:01) I hope you're all doing well. I hope you had a beautiful New Year and Christmas. To be perfectly honest with you, we're recording this quite early. It's December 3rd. I'm currently awaiting the birth of our third child, which my wife Alyssa and I are very, very excited about. So we're recording a few episodes in advance, but I'm sure the next time you hear me, I'll be giving you some positive news. So yeah, much love, everyone. [Speaker 2] (1:02 - 1:08) Thank you so much to our premium membership community, Friends of the Truth. These conversations are powered by you. [Speaker 1] (1:08 - 1:24) If you love what we do and you want to support us on a deeper level and support yourself, you can head to friendsofthetruth.co, and there's an incredible value there available to you. And also, you get to support what we do too. So without any further ado, Om Rapani. [Speaker 3] (1:24 - 1:31) You are now listening to the Year for the Truth podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Yerasimos. [Speaker 1] (1:34 - 1:50) Om Rapani is a distinguished teacher, speaker, and author specializing in intimacy, power dynamics, and conscious relationships. With over two decades of experience, he has guided countless individuals and couples in exploring the intersections of desire, clarity, and personal growth. [Speaker 2] (1:51 - 2:21) Om teaches workshops in BDSM, man-woman relating, and Tantra, offering profound insights into the dynamics of power, vulnerability, and connection. His book, Prerequisites to Ecstasy, a no-nonsense guide to what it really takes to create the love and sex we say we want, serves as a practical guide to building fulfilling and authentic relationships. Through his teachings, writings, and coaching, Om challenges societal norms and invites us to embrace truth, vulnerability, and our innate capacity for love. [Speaker 1] (2:21 - 2:26) Om, thank you so much for being here with us today. Thank you for having me. Absolute pleasure. [Speaker 2] (2:27 - 2:47) One way we always like to kick off these conversations with first-time guests is we'd like to dive a little bit deeper into your personal hero's journey. What were some of the major catalyzing moments in your life, the rites of passage that led you into this line of work and brought this forth, I guess, as your current role and what you teach and coach and write about? [Speaker 1] (2:47 - 3:56) This particular field about relationships, about sensuality, BDSM, it completely started as a personal inquiry. I've been in the same, I've been with the same woman right now 35 years. We met sophomore year in college. I'm 54 now. So we reached a part in our dynamic where many couples, long-term couples, reach that. We love each other. Our relationship is great. And sensuality could be a bit better. And even though, you know, I'm 54 now, this was a while ago. We're still in our early 30s. We're like, we're still young people, but it's like the desire and the spark doesn't seem to be there. So just out of that, studying, taking classes, taking classes in Tantra, stumbling on BDSM, stumbling on One Taste and their stroking and omen practice. So it was completely started as a personal inquiry. Here's what, what do people out there know that I can bring home to my woman and make our life better pretty much. So there wasn't any big ambition that I'm going to be teaching this or offering this to other. It was completely started as a student. [Speaker 2] (3:56 - 3:57) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (3:57 - 9:26) Why do you think things got stagnant, you know, and why do you think things usually get stagnant for a lot of people there, there would come up to five, 10 years. Yeah, I think, I think the reason, I don't know, I don't know the guaranteed reasons for that. I don't have any certainty that this is correct, but I think EROS is challenged in long-term relationships. I think long-term relationships are about partnership. They're about domesticity. I think the long-term partnership is designed in our psyche, in our system as a very stable structure for raising children. And it's very crucial that, that man, woman bond be there, that the men and women be invested in each other, that they have a bond that's strong enough, that they can see through challenges, major life challenges. That's a real partnership that's needed to create families, to create legacy, to basically not live as animals, as human beings, to actually have families and parents and grandparents and those family pictures where there are 50 people in the picture and not just spray and pray attitude where men are just randomly impregnating women and hoping some kid survives. They're both mating strategies, but in the human brilliance is in, we want to create legacies through our families. And even the man, woman relating is a crucial part of that. And I think that is deeply needed. I think it is a part that is deteriorated in today's culture. Also that part, it's, it doesn't have as one of its big centerpieces and amazingly vibrant erotic life. I don't think husbands and wives are supposed to be insanely hot for each other for 30 years. I think they're supposed to be hot for each other, create babies, and then have the bond to see this lineage through into old age, which is an amazing accomplishment, which I think is a challenge 10 times bigger than creating a fun erotic life. I think that's actually a very more tangible thing, but the laws, the rules of eros are, I think, oftentimes set against the rules of long partnership, which is eros thrives on novelty. Eros thrives on a little friction and transgression. Whereas domesticity, you really need to trust the person and know this is who they are, can count on them. You count on their sameness. You count on their constancy in partnership. You count on their consistency, right? If you're with a woman and she's not constantly consistent, do not marry her. You'll suffer. But the lack of constancy, consistency, and small doses can be fun in the erotic realm. I don't know what this crazy bitch is going to be up to next week. That can be hot in the bedroom, right? And I think the way to hack into this, and I think the BDSM paradigm is one of the best hacks into eros is within the structure of a scene, within the erotic realm, we bring in that wildness, that vibrancy. I'm going to blindfold you. You don't know what's going to happen. I'm going to role play. I'm not your husband. I'm one of your husband's colleagues. You don't even know me. You've just seen me at a party. All of a sudden we're up and running and role play. Can be extremely hot how malleable the eros is, but it thrives on newness and stability and naughtiness, right? Betrayal fantasies. Lot of women have a cheating kink. This is not a piece of information men want to hear. But I get to hear all of women's fantasies, and you would be surprised how many women specifically have a cheating kink, right? And I think it is anchored in certain real primal desires. We can go down the rabbit hole of even some of these desires may actually be anchored in evolutionary theory, which is, it is advantageous sometimes for a woman to go and snatch some high quality sperm and bring it home. She may fuck the really hot guy and have her husband raise that child because under evolutionary biology, the rules are pretty brutal, right? So these are all wonderful things to consider. But I think the biggest thing that I have noticed is we badly want a long-term partnership, but certainly I think if you're going to have children, you should have. If you're not going to have children, I think this is why so many long-term partnerships fall apart. They in a way are lacking their core mission. Men and women don't know why they should be in long-term partnerships anymore. If they aren't raising a family together, if they aren't creating this lineage together, it's like you've taken away the big purpose of this partnership, in my opinion. And I think this is why so many couples are floundering that if they're not, if the two people are not here, like I want to create a family and women's like, I want to create a family, let's do this. Then seeking a long-term partnership, I think it's almost like they don't even know why they're seeking it. Yeah. It seems like, what's, what's the point? Like if we're going to have a family, sure. But if it's just two people together, it's like, then this is boring. [Speaker 2] (9:26 - 9:26) Right. [Speaker 1] (9:27 - 11:02) Or that let's be together. And as long as it's good, we'll be together. Right. The big, big thing of, we need to commit through good times and bad through sickness and in health. You need to make those promises. If you're planning on having children, otherwise you're in amateur land because those children, people will be sick. People will be dying. Children might die. God is going to hurt a lot of challenges that you decide to start a family. So if you're not equipped for it, you're a child. This is why like generations need to sit with you and like prepare you when you're trying to get married, ready to get married. And that's, this is a wise thing to do. They need to tell you it's a tough road ahead, gear up for it. Right. And I think it's a noble mission. It's one that we are catastrophically unengaged from right now. Birth rates are dropping all over the place. Right. I have friends who are like particularly obsessed with this topic. Like every week they post the charts of the countries and the birth rates are really in a dire state. They used to be just in the West. Now they're even in the East. China's birth rates are dropping to the point where the people may not be able to recoup. I don't completely understand the math, but fewer kids are being born. Women are not having children. And this has deep, I don't completely understand the implications, but this has deep implications for economics, for the labor market, for countries' futures and GDPs on if the population ages out. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (11:03 - 11:53) Yes. It's interesting. So I'm six years into my marriage. We're about to have our third child. And I've gotten to the point where it's like, I really value the challenge and I value the adversity. And that's become a bit of a fuel for me. And I embrace that. But I definitely feel like early on, it's almost like, maybe this might be applicable to most people in the beginning of their journey. It's like you're tacitly hoping or wishing that there are no challenges, that there is no tough road. And it's almost like we would turn away from that. And we assume that that's not going to happen. And it's not even ideal. But actually, I think it is the ideal because ultimately it's what forges the bond and forges the union. But I think early on the journey, we wear these kind of rose-colored glasses. And the moment there's a bit of turbulence, it's almost like we question everything. [Speaker 1] (11:54 - 18:17) Yeah. I totally hear you. I think that human logic certainly applies to family challenges. It applies across the board. This is something I've thought about that if human beings were given the choice to write our own biography, we would go back and take out all the miserable things that happened to us. But this would be like a good science fiction movie. If you could take out your most miserable experiences, that horrible thing that happened, that trauma, that molestation, that rape, that abandonment, you could take out all of those things. But then the consequences would be like, who would you be today? And you know what the answer would be. You would have no substance. There was a great Bukowski line where he's speaking contemptuous of this type of a man. What did he say? He says, the kind of man who wears his sweater wrapped around his shoulder and his sunglasses tucked up in his hair, the kind of face to which nothing has happened yet. You know, this guy he's writing about. Yeah. You know, this country club guy is writing about probably still 24 years old. The guy who wears a sweater wrapped around his shoulder and his sunglasses tucked up in his ear. And you look at his face and you think nothing has happened to this human being yet. Yeah. It's probably not true, but it's, it's good poetry, but you understand what he means. Yeah. That's why when you look at, you know, yeah, we look at men who have been through something, it a little bit shows on their face, on their bodies. They're not, not so pretty anymore. Life has taken a toll, but that's what, that's what's needed. This is how the human journey is built. What are you going to do about it? Yeah. It's definitely a sign of psychological maturity. I think to, to not live in that place where you're like, I wish this didn't happen to me. I wish this didn't happen to me. I've had multiple times where I think, and by no means, am I perfect? Um, where people have asked me some of the greatest things that have ever happened to me in my life. And I highlight the most painful things. Yeah. Because they are, I think those are the things we grapple with. And I think the things we grapple with are the ones that are the greatest source of meaning for us. So I think if nothing happens, essentially it's like, uh, there haven't been that many opportunities to reap life lessons, right? At the top of this list would be an experience of betrayal. Betrayal is an excruciating, uh, experience, but it is one that will haunt you and it will one that will say never again, but then how do I need to reshape myself? So never again, right? And this is something that, uh, is also, you know, happens in every category, but certainly is happening. I think in turbo in man, woman relating these days, I feel the, the culture at one level is actually creating repeated experiences of betrayal. Ghosting is not just ghosting. Moving on is not just moving on. Switching to another partner, like their Kleenex is actually not that casual. People are actually accumulating experience after experience of betrayal. And that's very corrosive to the system. I don't know whether we have any or accountability about this particular phenomenon, but when I talk to men, even women, the bitterness that accumulates over time, I think actually is a resultant of repeated experiences of betrayal, which is, which is the dark side of the casualness of that infinite choices. We have these days in our mating strategies are just meeting opportunities. Yeah. Do you think the, I mean, the increase in the divorce rate and even, um, you know, child reproduction is going down the modern world? Like what elements of the modern world do you think have the biggest impact on that? Uh, I would, I would put a good percentage of the burden on women. I would put a good percentage of the burden on women, not all of it, but a lot of it, I think has to do with the chronic dissatisfaction of the modern woman. I think the modern woman is diseased with dissatisfaction. I think the feminist ideology has made it an idol that a woman's standard should be so high that she's never going to be happy. Right. I see this poison in women's system all over the place. They don't know how to be happy anymore. And the men thrive and they can make their women happy. So I see the modern woman as a losing proposition for modern men, men want to win men so badly need to win. And they are not winning with their women. If men are winning with their women, we will take bullets for them. We will bring them the moon. If we know there's a win in it. If we know at the other end of it, there is heroism. We will sacrifice ourselves, right? Go back, read the tale of two cities, the last chapter, the man is sacrificing himself for an unrequited love and all walking on the gallows. He says, this is a far, far better thing I do than I've ever done. This is a more nobler thing I do that I've ever done because he feels he has never touched the heroic in his life. And all his life, he has been longing to touch the heroic. And in the end of his life, he gets an opportunity where he gets to sacrifice himself for the woman he loves. And he says, I'll take it. I'll take the shot at heroism. I'll go to the gallows for this woman, right? You can see the logic that's built into it in the extreme case, because stories always want to deal with life and death issues to magnify it. But I think in small measures, men want to make their women happy. And if women have taken a sworn oath not to be happy, or that feeling satisfied by what the man is renders you weak or whatever else, you've kind of poisoned the well. You've kind of poisoned the man-woman equation, right? And men don't leave their women because their women are getting fat and old. Men leave their women because they're tired of losing with them. That's why they leave their women. [Speaker 2] (18:20 - 18:35) So what do you think are the steps or what's required of, I guess, the modern woman to begin to, I guess, cleanse from these ideologies which have, in many cases, resulted in this turmoil within relationships? [Speaker 1] (18:36 - 27:26) And by no means am I putting everything on women. I understand there's three men having a conversation. I hear you. But I think this piece is a woman's piece. I don't think men can do much about it directly. I think the answer when I coach women, this whole journey ends up in two parts. One has to be self-reflection, because the belief systems are so deeply ingrained in the feminist ideology and the modern woman that it's the water they swim in. They don't really see it anymore. Even when you point out to women how difficult they are to satisfy, when first hearing it, most women don't even think that's a problem. They're like, I have standards. I want things. I want my men to be, they don't hear it. They don't hear you have been a losing proposition of a woman all your life. And that's a problem. They don't see it. They don't see the lack of gratitude, the lack of graciousness in their system, how deeply ingrained this ideology of dissatisfaction is. Right. And that going forward from that, they don't see how demoralizing their chronic dissatisfaction is to their men. They don't see it. They just think he's not upping his game. And they're playing this game over and over and over to different men. Right. And the third level would be women today are in such shadow about what men bring into their lives that they don't really appreciate what they're getting. And if you don't appreciate what a man is bringing, essentially he's losing with you because we need credit for what we are bringing. That's the one way we win. Right. We don't even need candy and accolade and sex, but we need to be seen for what we're delivering. We need to be appreciated, even if it's just in words. Right. And that's not there. It's part of the chronic dissatisfaction is women think that if they appreciate a man, if they wholeheartedly tell him how much he's contributing to them, that somehow they're losing power. I think women, one of the poisons in the modern women's system is they really feel men are so corrupt and corruptible that any praise I give him, any reward I give him will just go through his head. He will become more unbearable, more of an asshole, more of a psychopath. If he knows he's actually gotten to my heart, I actually do appreciate him. This withdrawal, withholding of approval, I think is really another poison that's in the system. Women really hesitate telling their men, you're amazing. Thank you for doing that. Is this like a claim to power? I really don't think it's even about power. I don't even think women are trying to have power over men as such. It might be that they feel by acting in a softer, gracious, feminine way, they somehow become weaker. They don't think being submissive, being gracious, truly letting your men win is a win for them. They think this is going to lead to my man having, I don't know, some kind of a tyrannical control. I don't know what the fears are, but the fears I think are pretty irrational because all that we men want to do when we win with women is to want to win more. When we see a win, we just want to repeat like a good dog. We are very straightforward. We want to win more. We are very easily trainable. We know what our reward is. Our reward is very consistent. We want approval. We want acknowledgement for what we are bringing, for what we are contributing. And as long as we get that, we feel we are on track. We will keep repeating the behavior. Our behavior doesn't change. Yeah, I would have to agree with that. I mean, I'm in a 10-year relationship, about five years married. I don't have any children yet, but you know, with my wife, I think as she's been more appreciative, it makes me want to do more. It makes me want to be her hero. You do. You want to be her hero. I think when women submit to men, and it's wonderful when the women I coach finally see this, when women submit to men, you know what I think it triggers in the men, and let's not include the truly narcissistic and psychopathic bunch because they are the exception to every conversation. Those people are not good people. Those people are not, they don't want to create reciprocal relationship. We're talking about the majority of the sane population that are not sociopaths. When a woman submits to a man, and the average man, I believe she evokes his protection and provision instinct, which women are longing for. They're whining and complaining, where is men's protection and provision instinct these days? They don't understand their submission inspires that. And you want to see this in technical? This is not about sex or sexual relationship. Imagine your five-year-old daughter, and there is danger out here in the mall. Somebody started shooting. You would cover up that body with your body and take a bullet for that body, right? That same protection provision instinct gets triggered when any woman has trusted you enough to put herself under your wing, when she has submitted to you, when you feel that submission from her. With a five-year-old daughter, it's a given. She's your child. She's your charge. That's what it means for a woman to submit to a man, for a man to feel, she's my charge. It evokes her protection and provision instinct, which is the healthy first chakra circuit you have between men and women. Except women today are thinking, if I submit to a man, it's a betrayal of the sisterhood. And then why don't men care? Why don't men even want to pick up the check or open the door? They're not inspired. You're not theirs. You're not theirs. That's the language you need to use. He doesn't feel he owns you. The five-year-old daughter, he owns. That's ownership. If you don't own somebody, you don't take a bullet for them, right? Soldiers in combat, if the morale is right, they own each other. That's ownership. It's the same ownership. It's got nothing to do with necessarily a romantic relationship. These are the rules of relationships, all relationships. Parent and child, good dynamic. Parents own their children. Do you think, and I'm not saying this is for right or wrong, but do you think the word submissive yields a resistance when we approach it in this way? Listen, it does. And I'm a really practical person. I'm like, I've had this conversation and thought many times. I teach BDSM. I've had this conversation with my co-teachers. They're like, do we want to use the word BDSM? Do we want to use submission? It is so chargey and creates so much inflammation in the woman. Do we want to use the word dominance, a dominant man? I'm truly not attached to the words. Truly, I'm not. I'm like, words are a means to an end. And I want to be an effective communicator. So if I feel using this word is better than this word, I'll use this word. Words are a means to an end. I'm not attached. And there is the other aspect of if you water it down, if you substitute with other words, are you starting to lose meaning and actually confuse your message? And the conclusion I have arrived at more often than not is yes, the word dominance and submission bother people, but in a way they're bothering them in the right way. Yeah. It's like the fact that you have such a charge with this word shows me something. It should show you some about something about yourself. Here's an interesting fact. Check in your dictionary. The word submissive is not there as a noun. The word dominant is. But whenever I type submissives, it gives me a red line because submissive is not a noun in the dictionary. We don't even have this category of a submissive person. Isn't that interesting? What are you saying that means? That we don't have a category that this person is a submissive. [Speaker 3] (27:26 - 27:26) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (27:27 - 27:52) Yeah. We can't say that in the English language right now. Wow. Yeah. It's just an adjective. It's just an adjective. It's not a noun. Dominant. I think dominant is still, you can use it as a noun. I don't know. But I know whenever I type submissives plural, it gives me a red line because it's not a noun. It can't give me the plural of a noun. I have to write submissive and submissive quite often in my writing. I teach BDSM. [Speaker 2] (27:52 - 27:53) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (27:53 - 27:59) Every time I'm reminded, it's not a noun in the English language. Yeah. Okay. [Speaker 2] (28:00 - 28:21) So obviously we're at a dilemma here. If hypothetically the woman refuses to grasp this information or this reflection or whatnot, what choices does a man have in a relationship to try and move things forward and progress things? [Speaker 1] (28:24 - 32:09) Your question is correct. I completely understand it. And my answer has to do with readjusting your question a bit because it has to do with, well, how are we going about this is basically what you're asking and how the best way I know of going about it is a man is not going to convince a woman. It's not a man's job to bring a woman into submission. It's not a project for the man to do. I think the best, the most success rate, the most progress I have seen along this line is people have to come to these thresholds on their own. There are plenty of women who these days are realizing many of the beliefs and the ideologies and the frameworks they've been holding on, uh, working for them. Believe it or not, they are listening to people like you and me. Oh, yeah. And saying, uh, they are seeing the logic of it and then they are coming for training to me, to many other mentors and they are doing it themselves. And I think my job certainly as an educator is like, I'm here, this is my offering. And I put out a lot of free material. So people are very clear about what I'm offering. And if you want more, come get it. So to me, this is the approach. I'm not going out to change the world. I'm not interested in that approach. I'm going to go convince anybody. I don't want to convince anybody. Yeah. To put it more bluntly, I am here to take your money in this department. I'm a business. If you are a woman who wants to learn to be more feminine and more submissive, I think I have some offering for you. It's a workshop. It's a book. I'm not here on a social mission, right? The business part of it actually gives me great clarity. It should give you clarity too. I'm not your guru. I'm not here to change your mind. I'm not here to change your ideology. I have either a weekend workshop. I have an online workshop. I have a one week training. You can pay me money and take it and then go on your way and live your life. I understand in these conversations, we kind of take on the idea of how is the culture going to change? How are like, no, this is the way the culture, this is the way I'm going to contribute to it. I'm going to run a business that helps men step into dominance and women come into their more feminine nature and men and women can learn how to do BDSM. That's my contribution to the culture by running this business. I'm not on a social mission. Beauties of capitalism. I like it. Absolutely. Yeah. And this is why also I'm not interested in engaging people who want to argue. I'm like, there's no money in it for me. Bye-bye. I love it. Are you paying me for this? No. I'm not even trying to sell what I have to sell to everybody. No, you're going to have your market share. You understand? You can get into this topic on a separate day if you want. Do you guys understand? Do you ever, you know, the bell curve of the distribution of ideas, innovators, early adapters, early majority, late majority laggards. Yeah. I really, I haven't delved into it. Yeah. I really subscribed to that curve. I think it's brilliant insight. It's a great model for all businesses, certainly for people in my line of work who are in a fringe field, which means we really are innovators. We are weirdos, innovators, and we are really, we're still probably just reaching our early adopters, not even our early majority. Right. This is why I'm not interested in the laggards. Nobody should be interested in the laggards. So we will want to hurl stones at me and say, you're Neanderthal. Polarity training is bullshit. All men and women are equal. My brand and women are the same. I'm like, excellent. Do your thing. You and I don't need to converse. I find too many of the people that are doing that, they're not in, they're not happy and they're not in healthy relationships. [Speaker 3] (32:09 - 32:10) And they're the ones that are throwing the stones. [Speaker 1] (32:10 - 33:54) They're not paying me enough to care. I don't care. Um, so you go. Well, no, I mean, you continue. I was going to bring up something a little bit more controversial, but, um, I'm funny. I've read in the past, you know, you go on the internet, you read articles, people talk about things and even conversations I've had with certain female friends of mine that like rape fantasies are like a thing with women. And I'm curious if you come across that, um, in your work. Well, they are a common thing. Yeah. Rape fantasies are a common thing. This is certainly not an opinion, not my opinion. It's just a known fact. Women's eros. There's a wonderful book, a series of books actually, uh, I stumbled upon when I was still in high school, Nancy Friday. Uh, what is my secret garden? I think she started off with one book, but she got such a response that she had created three volumes or so this was before the internet in the eighties. I think she literally put out notices in women's magazines that, um, collecting, uh, women's sexual fantasies. You could write them, write them in, right? Mail women anonymously. And then she created a collection. So it was completely a woman to woman communication in women's magazine. Many women wrote in and certainly the category of non-consent of forced play rape fantasies is very huge. So it's, uh, yeah. Unconscious or even conscious desire to submit because they're not, they're not, they're not experiencing that maybe in their life and the way they would like to. I think, uh, the number of reasons, the number of energies, the number of erotic elements that go into the whole category of consensual non-consent is probably in the dozens. [Speaker 2] (33:54 - 33:54) Yeah. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (33:55 - 36:05) Like how many different ways this hits the psyche? What does it imply? What does it mean? Uh, I teach a module in consensual non-consent in my BDSM course, and the list is very long on what it means. And I think a lot of it has to do with, uh, the female psyche grappling with the mores in our society about how women should be. Right. So a lot of it has to do with women should be pure and then women should be wild, sexual animals. Women should be inhibited. And then also women have tremendous appetites. So how does the psyche create a solution to this? Well, if I, if I can get all my desires met in a way that I didn't ask for them, wonderful. If I can get my desires met and still have deniability or hold on to my purity or say, I didn't ask for it or those, those elements are like, they're one of many elements. And then also the, we may say women have rave fantasies, but the man in their fantasy is a very specific man. He usually is the top of the hierarchy. Generally, he's not a bum on the street. Although there's room for that fantasy too, of revulsion. Right. But usually he is, he is, uh, he's the alpha guy. He is a Christian gray billionaire. He's dominant. He flies around in helicopters and he is the one who takes her, ravages her, but he's very qualified. And he's a good lover, right? She feels immense pleasure and satisfaction when he ravages her. So those are all like the big check marks in the fantasy. This is why it's a fantasy. It doesn't mean you want reality because reality is going to have a very hard time, uh, matching a Christian gray with his perfect body and his billions, who's an amazing lover and can make her orgasm multiple times each day. Right. So many things go into it. Yeah. And also the fact that the man is strong, which is what the female psyche wants. He takes what he wants. He is a powerful, he is strong. So those are like only a handful of elements that probably go into that whole scenario. There are many more. [Speaker 2] (36:06 - 36:19) So BDSM within long-term relationships, is this, are we really pointing to the dynamic and the polarity, or are you talking about just the foreplay and then the role-playing and, and, and, and the stuff like that? Like what does BDSM practically look like within long-term relationships? [Speaker 1] (36:20 - 39:01) It can look like, uh, any of those things that you mentioned. Again, I don't have a subscription for people on this is the way your relationships look like. So a range of it could be, and I think this is a good, uh, this works pretty well for most people. Most of the time is I encourage people to create scene time, no different than, uh, let's say two people who primarily have a DOM sub dynamic. They meet for scenes. They know this is going to be an erotic interlude. They know that we have a time setup, whether it's even if it's one hour or two hours, it shouldn't really be longer than that for most people where you will come in your submissive archetype. I will be in my DOM archetype and they engage in the way that DOMs and subs do a little bit in ritual space and scene space. They come into the archetype, they stay in the archetype. They have a certain etiquette and protocol. The DOM is in charge of the scene. There is good communication, hopefully pre-communication where they have expressed their desires and boundaries. And then the DOM leads to submissive in a scene, right? I think if married couples can find a time for that scene play and transition, that can be quite lovely. I do the same in my life. Set time aside to go into certain sensuality spaces. I think they can be quite lovely. That way it allows you to kind of switch, switch archetypes, which is, which is important and which is one of the biggest challenges in long-term relationships. Switching archetypes is very challenging for everybody, right? So if you can set up a ritual space, a scene space where you know we're going to be switching archetypes from husband and wife to DOM and sub, that can, that creates that doorway into eros and play. And that's one great sustainable way of couples, any long-term couples to create a lot of vibrancy, have a lot of fun and have this little bit alternate world. Like we're leaving the other world behind for two hours. We need that in our life. I think we need that. People in BDSM will often, you know, they will start referring to everything as a scene. This is a brunch scene. This is a skydiving scene. I'm having a Saturday in bed scene. But I think there's a lot, there's a, I think I find that useful to say, this is what we're doing. And this is a little different than what I was doing before and what I'm going to be doing in two hours. I'm going to take my time to go deeper into this. For the next three hours, I'm at the banya at the Russian spa. No phone. Good. Should do that. You know what I mean? Have yourself a spa scene. And I think that's good for eros again, because it can allow us to transition. It can allow us to change archetypes. It can allow us to be playful, to be, to do role play, to put on costumes you wouldn't otherwise. Have fun with it. [Speaker 2] (39:02 - 39:05) Yeah. It's easy to get stuck in the stagnancy of the day to day. [Speaker 1] (39:06 - 47:09) It's easier to be more playful. This is not all about being serious. It's easier to be more playful, to be more silly. A scene can be anything. You can have a tickling scene. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. I think this is where the trust and feeling safe in a partnership needs to be in order to even share some of the stuff or some of these fantasies. I think many individuals are afraid to even share these deeper aspects within their psyche for fear of shame, for fear of being judged and for fear of being left. Very much so. This is a conversation that I bring up early in my BDSM training. I refer to it as a permission field, right? How big is the permission field you're bringing into which your partner is stepping into? And we are very sensitive to this. Women often measure up a guy across from her very quickly, right? It's always amusing when I ask them on this in a class full and all the hands go up. I'm like women on a first date, some part of their brain figures out how much of my sex I can show this man. They figure you out. They figure out how big your permission field is. They figure out just how much of their darkness, how much of their eros will you be able to handle before you start judging them or start running for the hills. So women very quickly assess how much of my sex I can show this man, right? And in BDSM training, certainly one of the greatest assets I teach my students and specifically with my doms is you may think doms capacity, the doms mastery is in swinging floggers and tying rope. All the skills are good, but the permission field you bring in which your submissive can reveal themselves to you is one of your biggest assets. This is why you need to do your own work. If you're in your own shame around things, if you haven't really dealt with your own issues, it'll show up. People will perceive it. They're not going to show you more of themselves than you are ready to see, right? So you're right in that sense. And many times people in long-term relationships have never felt that great permission field for revealing their eros to each other. And this can be, this can be a point of problem. Sometimes when couples come to class, couples are always harder to teach in these classes. They will see a man will see his woman surrendering to some guy she just met. And he'll be like, I have, I've never seen you surrender this fast to me. What the hell? And the woman doesn't quite know how to articulate it either. But part of the reason would be the woman never felt the word women will use as safe. It's not an accurate word. Every, everything gets lumped into safe. It's being muddied these days. What the hell does safe mean anyway? Safe. I think when you, when you tease it apart means it can mean the permission field that I didn't really couldn't quote unquote, feel safe to reveal these part of myself to you. Whereas somehow this other person's energy, and probably also because we're not connected, I feel I can bring this out. Right. And oftentimes the safe also refers to, I don't feel contained enough by your energy to really be vulnerable. Or I don't see that you are self-contained enough that you could handle that much heat from my system. It'll blow you out. And they're right. They're right. Women are very perceptive and right about measuring up men's systems. In that area, I don't think they're being, they're underhanded or doing anything negative. They are trying, the women are very social creatures. They're trying to manage and trying to make sure the house doesn't burn down. Right. So if they, if they feel revealing this part of my roster, this man is just going to blow out anyways. He's like, why would I do it? Or that he's going to start judging me for these desires. Why would you do it? You wouldn't do it either. Right. The rejection and the feeling of shame that can come from that, you know, that's pretty heavy. And there is no payoff. Yeah. There is no percentage in it. After you reveal it, then what? You just put yourself out there. They don't know how to handle this part of your roster. They judge you for it now. There's no win. Yeah. And this, and the fear of this, of that rejection or that they can't handle it, even plays a role in people like sneaking off into the little private caves and pornography and all these other things that. I would, I would, yeah, I think that's very reasonable. I haven't, I've only heard this research secondhand online, but they say that Jordan Peterson has talked about this a little bit, that, you know, the Google engineers know what porn we are watching and they've tabulated it. And I've heard people can tabulate what porn women are watching and they say it is pretty aggressive, pretty dark and aggressive porn that women are watching. So I would say definitely their fantasy lives are kind of finding release in pornography in a very similar way to men's fantasies. We're not that different. We're seeking fantasy and pornography, things we can't have in our life or whatever. Yeah. So what's kind of required, I guess, for the man to become more and more dominant? I think he would have to know himself. He needs to do his own work. He needs to deal with his own wounding, his own shame, right? Really be a man of clarity and substance. Truly all the things, I think when men imagine the kind of man that would inspire you to, that you would want to have him as your leader, it will be a man you respect. It would be a man you feel this guy has substance, he has experience, he's clear, I trust him, right? And then you would, you would say, yeah, I may, I may vote for him to lead me, whether it's a company, whether it's something. And I think women are looking for those same measurements with their men. This is a man I can trust. This is a man of substance. This is a man I feel can hold me. This is a man who can provide me with containment. I think those metrics are very similar. I actually, because I think the metrics are actually about hierarchy and hierarchy functions as well between men as it does between women to men. I think most men, women conversations, they're not about sex. They're not even about sexual differences. They're actually about leadership and followership and what kind of man do you need to be for a woman to feel he can lead me, right? I think that even, that machinery is even working when women are assessing, can I sexually surrender to this man, right? The qualification he needs, and I work in chakras, the qualification he needs in the second chakra in the sexual realm is, can he handle my sex? Is he competent? Or will I open myself up to him and he doesn't know what to do with me anyway. But this incidentally is a conversation I've had multiple times with pickup artists, pickup artists themselves, and women who have known enough pickup artists. They're like, yeah, they're good at getting me in bed, but then what? The guy was pretty smooth. I went home with him. Nothing much happened at home. I surrendered my sex to him once. He couldn't do much with it. I've had pickup artists say the same thing. Like, we're good at, might be good at getting the girl home. And then what? They don't have any of the other sexual mastery and women will find that out first date, first time. So yes, you need sexual mastery, but then the rest of it, if they truly are going to be taken with you as a man, is those are leadership qualities. Does he make me feel contained? Is he self-contained himself? Is he competent in the world? Is he a man at the third chakra deserving of respect? Does he command respect? [Speaker 2] (47:11 - 47:19) What does building sexual mastery mean for a man? And what do you think are some of the psychological causes of things like early ejaculation and stuff like that? [Speaker 1] (47:22 - 48:24) I would say mastery is really, it's really being a student. Take classes and everything. Right. If we had a kind of have a school of sex, but if we really had a school of sex, we would really create a curriculum. Yeah. Learn to touch, learn to create a range of touch, learn to give them in containment, learn to handle women's genitals in eight different ways. How many schools of women touching have I been to? I would have to count. One place taught me how to stroke clit. Charles Muir taught me how to do sacred spot massage. Other teachers have teaching me base chakra work. Other, it's like study. It's wonderful. It's a great subject to study. Women's erotic systems are so nuanced and complex and rich. This is a good place to a student, be a nerd, be a geek, take classes in BDSM, learn how to do some rope bondage, learn how to do some sensation, play safely, bring it home, build your skills, learn how to handle somebody's body so that you can delight them. [Speaker 2] (48:25 - 48:31) Yeah. I've seen a bunch of like people that are experts or as experts, but like proficient in Shabari. [Speaker 1] (48:31 - 50:04) Does that do that? Rope bondage. It's amazing to view and see, you know. And they are never without dates, right? Women love being tied up. Women love experiencing bondage. Hold a clean space, a clean permission field for it, and you will have a very, very filled dance card, right? And have a good reputation, do it right, be clean, and women will go tell their girlfriends and send them to you. Well, I mean, it's the same as anything. If it's a value of yours, then you're going to become proficient at it ultimately. And, you know, if it's a value of a man's continually, you know, satisfy his woman, then, you know. Well, I think it has to be a value, but you have to back it up. You have to put in the work. And that actually, there is a gap in between, because if you stop a random man on the street and say, would you like to be better at sex? Every man's going to say yes. And if you ask him, when was the last time you took a class to become better at sex? What was the last thing you did to acquire more sexual mastery? Most of men will probably have nothing. So there's a gap in there. There's a shadow piece in there. I think there's a big ego piece where men are terrified to actually think about that they actually may not be that good in bed right now, that they may never have been that good in bed. That is a big hit to the male ego. I see this all the time. And the older the guy, the harder, more he resists to actually get new training, which like, this is going to make you better. But part of their psyche is like, if it's going to make me better, it kind of implies I've sucked so far. [Speaker 2] (50:06 - 50:07) It's hard to sit with that. [Speaker 1] (50:07 - 55:08) It's hard to sit with that. It does. I mean, I think being a student requires a certain degree of humility. And a lot of times I can understand the tenderness around it. Yes. It's a very human piece. What man wants to get a report card that none of your women have been very satisfied with so far in life. But it's kind of the need to learn, do better. What are your thoughts on people like the casual scene where people are meeting for the first time and then having sex, but then they want partnership with these people. But then it's like on some level they're giving it up too easily. And what are your thoughts on that? I'm not on the forefront of this culture. I've never filled out a dating profile. I've never had sex with a woman on a first date. It's not kind of where I roll. I'm interested in slowness. And I'm also more interested in creating other modalities of connection before penetrative sex comes in. I don't have penetrative sex with a lot of people in my life, but I love using my hands. I love being a dom. I go to a party and I have 15 scenes, 15, 20 minute scenes where I give people little experiences of BDSM and I only use my hands. So I believe that part of sexual mastery, essential mastery actually is first of all, taking the focus away from penetrative sex. That's the first thing I would teach. I encourage my men, don't take your dick out till you have at least thrilled a woman four times with your hands. This is a kind of a random number, but I'm like four is good. Four times where she has taken her clothes off and handed her body to you, you've only used your hands and you have delighted her body. And she's like, when do I get to see you again? That woman that you have thrilled four times, maybe the fifth time, take your pants off. Because that's a good place to bring a woman where the woman is like, oh, it was so good. When do I see you again? And you haven't had penetrative sex yet. Your cock has not been enrolled yet. That shows sexual mastery. That shows self-control. It'll earn you sexual respect. And also that maybe, you know, you also have standards. You're not that hungry. And also really psychologically not thinking that penetrative sex is what sex is. Or trust me, by the time a woman takes off all her clothes and says, you can put your hands on my body. I think, I think you have won her over sexually. That'd be my milestone. She's given herself to you sexually. Yeah. Relax. And then now is your time to deliver and enjoy, of course, enjoy, but also to bring your sexual mastery to the foreground, handle our system well from beginning to end and, you know, be a good lover. Yeah. So I would, I would give that encouragement to people. I'm not, I don't have any judgment against, I would, my judgment, I only have two practical concerns. Or one is more practical concern. I'm like, take care of your sexual health. Yeah. Be sensible. Take care of your sexual health. And the second would be try not to have bad sex. Aside from that, you know, I, as I say, I live in a pretty wild culture myself. I have friends who throw play parties. I go there, I hold scenes, people are having sex. And I'm like, it's your life, live as you want. But if I had to give like a generic piece of advice, I'm like, don't, don't gamble with your sexual health thinking you're invulnerable. And then really don't have bad sex. Yeah. Don't have bad sex because I think bad sex, if you're having bad sex, you're having it for secondary reasons. And I think that is, that is something you should actually look at. That if you're having sex simply to score a point, if you're having sex to, uh, affirm to yourself that you're desirable, if you're having it for secondary reasons, that's how we corrupt sex. That's how we, I think, uh, um, almost keep sex from reaching its aesthetic heights because we're not really doing it for ecstasy. We're not really doing it for its erotic joy and potential. We're doing it to get approval. We're doing it because we want to feel attractive today. Women have a lot of sex because they are feeding their ego. Yeah. Not even any dark way. They want to feel desired. They want to feel unwanted, but none of that has actually to do anything with ecstasy. It has to do with the third chakra, with my self-worth. Yeah. You will not have good sex with those women either. I would encourage one way. And if you perceive that's why the woman is having, wanting to go home with you, pull it back. Use only your hands. Give her a massage and send her home. Give her the connection. [Speaker 3] (55:09 - 55:09) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (55:09 - 57:41) Play a higher game because the real, I am more interested in true ecstasy and eros. You know, I'm like all those secondary reasons there to me, they're pretty depressing actually. When I see people doing that. Yeah. So what is your focus? Where do you want to go with it? No, I was just, I was curious in that regards. Cause you know, I know women that really, really want partnership and long-term partnership and they meet a man and they have sex with him the first day. And I don't know, I'm not saying I have judgments, but I'm curious if that builds a bond too quickly that they may not be aware of. And maybe the man doesn't have the same level of respect because it was easy, but then a man who's also partaking in it and not setting that boundary says something about the man as well. I totally hear you. I mean, I would say for some people, it may be that if it's too easy, it's not deserving of partnership. I actually think the bigger problem is not that you necessarily had sex too early. It's that thinking that if you, even if you have decent sex with someone, that that is a solid enough reason or foundation to build a partnership. I think that's the key flaw. It isn't. There, I've had many conversations and podcasts on this. I'm like, so this is something worth teasing apart because if two people have a good partnership, we would want them to also have eros. So being good eros, being part of a partnership is a good thing. So it's not like the eros is a liability. If you have good eros with somebody, that's a good thing, but that by itself is actually not a solid enough foundation for a partnership. Partnership, I would put at the first and the third target. First of all, do you respect this man? If you do not respect him, if you don't think highly of him, I don't care if he can give you three orgasms a night. Have him as a lover, have him as a sex partner, have him put him where he is delivering. But if you don't respect him, I don't think your partnership is going to work out. That's one criteria that's got nothing to do with the second target, nothing to do with eros. It has to do with do you look up to this man? Do you respect this man? Right? Have a rather spicy title. What is the relationship between respect and submission? I think it's very crucial. I don't think women can truly submit to any man they don't respect. [Speaker 3] (57:42 - 57:42) Hmm. [Speaker 1] (57:43 - 59:32) Right. Submission, we want to submit to people. Everything to me is logical and in self-interest. So I'm not asking anybody to any woman to submit to any man because I say so or because women should submit to men. I really have no such ideology. So the logic of it would be everything we are doing, we're doing it out of self-interest. A woman will submit to a man when submitting to that man is in her self-interest. Then when is submitting to a man in her self-interest? It's for her to decide how to figure it out. But I would say certainly one of the criteria's would be she looks up to him. He's more competent in the world than she is. She feels following him makes my life better. It has to be in self-interest. There isn't any ideology here. And the logic of following him makes my life better. Once again, it's not a man-woman piece. It's a hierarchy piece. It's how we cast our vote that under this man's leadership, this woman's leadership, my life is going to be better. I'm going to vote for him. I want him to lead me. Right. It's a leadership assessment. It's a third chakra assessment. Why? Well, you trust that he's better, he's more competent. The leader can change things in a way that will benefit you. That in an emergency, you trust his judgment over your own. Right. And essentially, you submit. You want to be that person's follower. You say, you lead, I will follow. I will obey your orders. I will take your lead. This is a piece of hierarchy. This has nothing specific to do with man-woman. In any relationship, this would come up. You trust your partner. In gay relationships, it would come up. [Speaker 3] (59:33 - 59:33) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (59:34 - 1:02:25) How do you see, because we hear about it so often for years, like mommy and daddy issues playing out in partnership with people that come to you? I think mommy and daddy issues over parents are a crucial part of our life. They play out in all of our life, all of our lives in every aspect. They certainly play out in our relationships. They play out in money issues. When having this conversation recently, people's money issues are money beliefs very much come from their family, their family's environment, their family's efforts money, whether they believe money was good or bad, whether they were good at earning money, whether they were good at saving money. Right. So our parents, our family life, obviously, is tremendously important. And so absolutely weaves into every part of our life, including our relationships. And we can go into more depth. It's obviously a very rich, complex terrain. But in my men's course, certainly there's a whole section on, you know, how incompletions with our mother are the patterns we established as young boys with our mother tend to get carried over in our adult partnerships. What does the healthy dynamic look like between a mother and the young son, which would lead to, you know, a psychologically healthy male, sexually healthy male in the future? It would be a mother who is proactively eager to let her son individuate, to let her son grow up and leave, to let her son grow up and be independent, to let her son reach the stage where he doesn't want her leadership anymore. When we, when the reason a teenage boys are such silky assholes is because they're supposed to be, they're breaking apart. They're saying no to the mother's aprons, right? They become kind of dicks because they're in a constant no. That's a healthy no saying I need to pull away from your apron strings to figure out who the hell I am. And it's better if as teenage boys, we are looking towards older brothers, friends, men, other role models. We're not supposed to be under our mother's wings, right? And good mothers understand that. And they say, good, good. Get out by the time you're 18, get out. And then you can love your mother when you're grown up. She's, she's awesome. She brought you up. She's mom, she's mother. You love her, you adore her, but you're not her little boy anymore. Right. And she, she wants that. And she doesn't want you to be her little boy anymore while you're still 30 and 40 years old. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:02:25 - 1:02:29) Let me ask you the same question, I guess, for the father-daughter relationship. [Speaker 1] (1:02:32 - 1:03:35) I think father-daughter relationships, there isn't that radical and individuation or separation. I think daughters, I think fathers also similarly need to loosen the threads and let the daughter go and hopefully let her create her own life. And if the family is good and functional, your parents, your parental home, your parents, while they're still alive, they can be like a, like a home you can return to and like a resource because there is solidity there. And if things get difficult, you know, these people have your back, but the point is not to need them. Point is to go forward and create your own life. I think that applies in what individuation is supposed to look like, create your own life. And then you are increasing the family power and strength each generation. [Speaker 2] (1:03:38 - 1:03:52) Yeah. What role do you think mainstream culture and media has played in, I guess, distorting the sexual energy and the way we view sex and promiscuity and all the rest of it? [Speaker 1] (1:03:56 - 1:05:43) I think the biggest thing I see is depicting that women can essentially have sex like men. And it's a great one. One big example of this was sex in the city. It was very interesting. Interesting conversations have come up since the show. I've stumbled upon a couple of them. One of them was, you know, Sarah Jessica Parker's character, the woman herself has been in a monogamous marriage with Matthew Broderick for like 35 years, raising family. So she's like, this is not who I was. Right. Many of the other characters are like, this lifestyle you're describing is a, is creates nothing but misery for women. This out every night, out three nights a week, many lovers. So this is a fantasy. Somebody else I heard that I don't, can't confirm it because I haven't just heard it on a podcast or something that the lifestyle they showed of these four women was actually based on the lifestyle of young gay men. This is what four young gay men in New York city, their lifestyle would look like, which is a lot of hookups, a lot of encounters and playful and casual. And what does it matter? Very interesting because those are, I think there are different psyches. So if women believe this is how the modern woman is doing it, and this is how I should be doing it, they may have bought the wrong, wrong product, the wrong ideology. Yeah. And you think that that was purposeful? You get into that at all? [Speaker 3] (1:05:43 - 1:05:43) I don't know. [Speaker 1] (1:05:43 - 1:07:29) I really don't know. I, I do not, I don't want to, I know the news is bad. I know some people really believe feminism was a CIA conspiracy or a Soviet conspiracy. And I really don't know. I love watching these programs and listening to these articles, but I'm not, not a... You're not going to stake your flag in the ground one way or the other. I have, doesn't really matter to me. It's like, listen, if feminism has so many potent poisonous pieces that if this was a conspiracy, bravo, they succeeded. Yeah. Because they have done brilliantly. Feminism has been poisonous to men, women relating. In so many ways. And it's been so effective. It's been so effective. It's been so ingenious in hitting the women exactly where they are vulnerable and convincing them in ways in exactly the way that they're susceptible. Because they've wrapped it very beautifully, right? They have wrapped it in the wrapper of feminine empowerment. They have wrapped it as in a woman who's never satisfied by a man is empowered. A woman who never submits to a man is empowered. It's truly empowered the way your grandmothers were not. You are the new woman. Never ever come into agreement with a man. That's what a powerful woman does. Wow. All we men want is to be of use to our women. How would you explain to a woman that by being more submissive to your man, this is actually empowering you? See, again, I would be careful never to make that argument. I'd really, and I mean that genuinely. I'm not making a political statement. [Speaker 3] (1:07:30 - 1:07:30) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:07:30 - 1:14:01) I'm like, I have seen women who are with men whom they trust, whom they look up to. And a dom sub dynamic, a leader followership dynamic works really well for them. If you have tried egalitarian relating and it hasn't worked for you, maybe try not pairing up with a man that you don't respect. Many women are just stuck in that misery. They don't respect the man they're with. They will not be able to submit to him. They will not be able to follow him. You can't follow people you don't respect. And then, but then they're confused on why my relationship isn't working. Going back to your original point, it's because you may have started your relationship because you were having good sex with this guy, but you never respected him. You never looked up to him. You always thought you were smarter than him. You always thought you were in the one in the relationship who gets to have the final word and correct the other person's mistake, which means you will never accept this man as your leader. And maybe this is why your system never gets to relax in this relationship because you are the one leading and leading is expensive. Leading means you are the one who's in vigilance. Now you're exhausted because you don't trust your man and you don't trust your man to lead you. You don't think he's competent enough that you should follow him. You have set yourself up for exhaustion in this connection. That's for you to look at. Do you find it's pretty natural that you've seen with the people you work with that a woman that maybe holds, you know, more of these aspects of self or these archetypes, they just naturally attract a man who they don't respect or who is like, I don't want to say more feminine, but just less dominant? I do. I very much believe energies want to even out. So people find their match. People find their balance. And the more a woman is masculinized, the more the feminized man, it would be, they would find each other. It's a little bit magic and it's a little bit selection. Like who fits with your system? If a woman is that masculinized and afraid of masculine dominance, if she encounters a man who's embodied in his dominance, she wouldn't go for him. She would judge him. She would think he's a bad guy. She would think he's toxic. She wouldn't be able to perceive his leadership as an asset. She would think that level of masculine dominance is corrupt. She won't be able to see it. And the vice versa is happening all the time. Also a man who knows himself, who knows what kind of woman he wants to be with, right? He will avoid those masculinized women from 20 feet away. I do. I hear one bit of random disrespect towards the masculine coming from a woman anywhere. I'm like, I don't even want to know you if you're that, because it's grating on my system to be around that categorical disrespect towards the masculine. I've had enough of it. Right? And going back to the media question, I believe that disrespect of the masculine is one of the things that has been really perpetuated through the media. I came to this country in 1983 at the age of 13 and all through the eighties, men have been weak on TV and sitcoms. Right. I came into the Cosby show, family ties, that generation. Of course, the men weren't evil on sitcoms, but they were weak. They were sweet guys with competent wives. And it's gotten only worse. In the nineties and the 2000, the man has gotten downright obese and stupid while the woman has gotten rolling her eyes contemptuous towards this idiot husband, gotten towards Homer Simpson. That's been the arc, right? That's the arc of what men are. You are an eye roll. You are an ongoing disappointment. You are a fucking idiot and I have to do everything. And I think that message has been more pernicious than anything because it's powerful. When it's that pervasive, it's powerful. Right? One of the many evil quotations of Goebbels I keep in my back pocket, make the lie big, repeat it often. Right? Man was a genius at propaganda. Repeat the lie often. And this is the power of feminism. And this is the power of media. If you look at the lie, you're like, this is a lie. Men actually aren't like Homer Simpson. What the fuck? The average guy is not Homer Simpson. The past 30, 40 years, it is all you have seen in sitcoms and comedy, right? All the three men and friends, watery, goofy, stupid, incompetent. Funny. Yeah. Right. And because it's like, when you repeat the lie often, it becomes the water you swim in. Right? I think this is also the biggest challenge on women's part. It's difficult for everybody to see the water that they're swimming in. Right? This is why also I'm like, maybe they need a little cold water in the face from assholes like me and my podcast and saying, respect your man, be submissive to your man. You need a few of these to realize what water you're swimming in. We're not going to wake up otherwise. I'm certainly coming and splashing up your fucking water. If you bother even finishing one of my podcasts, maybe that's a good thing. Maybe there's a service I'm providing you, which you will appreciate someday. Yeah, I agree. You need that friction. And I know you don't get conspiratorial, but like, you look at the last 30 years and you look at the things that are being put out there, it just makes you wonder, you know, we've had other episodes of conversations with people who focus on this. And it's just curious to look at, especially from a, maybe a more sociopolitical standpoint. I don't know if there are such great forces behind it. Well, they really are smart. They're really powerful. Yeah. My hat's off to them. If they're out there, damn, they're doing a great job. They're winning. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:14:02 - 1:14:17) What advice would you give to like, married couples with young children to like, keep things simmering, you know, when, when things seem overwhelming and people drained and time consumed, you know, young, multiple kids. [Speaker 1] (1:14:18 - 1:17:34) The biggest pieces of advice I have to give to long-term couples, actually, it's pre-erotic advice, which is make sure your relationship field is clean. Make sure you're in agreement with each other. Make sure you have to keep your emotional field, your relational field clean. It's a relationship challenge. It is exactly the same challenge you can give to non-romantic people. You can give exactly the same prescription to siblings. I have a chakra by chakra evaluation. Yeah. For just a marriage, you would say, do you trust your husband? Do you trust your wife? Do you feel they are self-contained? Do you trust their competence in the world? Third chakra, do you respect them? Do you still feel respect for them? Or do you, are you in contempt towards them now? At the first chakra, do you feel you're a partner? Do you feel you can fulfill your needs together in agreement? Or do you feel to get my needs met, I need to go someplace else. At the heart chakra, do you feel love and affection for your partner? Or do you feel it's fading away? Those are relationship evaluations. What energy are, what is your standing energy with your partner? By the time people end up on the therapist's couch, it is contempt. Contempt and vindictiveness. By that time, I think you need to bury the corpse. It's very hard to come back from contempt and vindictiveness, but you have let things get that bad. You went from affection to vindictiveness, love to vindictiveness. You went from respect to thinking this person is an idiot and my life is being held back because of them. There's no point. There's no point in trying to give people erotic help at that point because erotic improvement requires a clean, loving, open, playful field between people. You have to like the person. You have to trust them. You have to want to trust them. You are willing to hand yourself over to them. That's what makes great eros work. But if the relationship is all botched up and splotchy with all these energies, those people, they do show up to my workshops and they are the hardest people to teach, even the most basic skills because they're bringing in all the negativity and baggage from their life into a simple rope tie. You're not doing it right. That's not how Ohm showed it. It's amazing to watch. They can't do anything because contempt, stupid, you're doing it wrong again, all the negative energies. The guy is losing with her from minute one. She doesn't even know it because she's frustrated and the energies just get churned around. Nothing new can be learned. So I'm like, if you really want to be a black belt at relationships, address the relationship energies first. That's where the bigger challenge is. Yeah. Ohm, do you have children? I do not. Got you. [Speaker 2] (1:17:34 - 1:18:17) I want to read to you a quote from James Hollis in his book, The Middle Passage, and get your thoughts on it. He says, Nietzsche once remarked that marriage is a conversation. A long dialogue. If a person is not ready to engage in such a prolonged dialogue, they're not ready for long term close relationships. Many long married couples have long since exhausted all topics of conversation because each spouse has stopped developing their individuality. By focusing on individual growth, we each gain an interesting conversation partner. To halt one's own developments, even in the interest of another person, means admitting that your spouse will have to live with someone who feels anger and suffers from depression. Such marital relationships need to be radically reconsidered, or they will simply lose their meaning. [Speaker 1] (1:18:20 - 1:18:31) Okay. How shall we address that quote? Well, I think the crux of it is like, you know, when we get consumed in relationships, and each [Speaker 2] (1:18:31 - 1:18:52) individual is not growing individually, they're not continuing their own personal individuation journey within the marriage, then things become boring and stagnant, and there's nothing more to talk about, you know, and I think often we can like lose ourselves in relationships and we forget that we're on our own individual journey as well. So what role do you think that plays, you know, in stagnancy in marriage and relationships? [Speaker 1] (1:18:52 - 1:22:54) I believe, I agree with the overall message of it, that relationships work, again, whether it's a first encounter, a new relationship, or a long-term relationship, my logic is always the same, all relationships, we enter and exit out of our self-interest. So is this relationship in my self-interest? Does it enrich my life? Does it better my life? Again, I work with the chakra system, does it bring more stability and groundedness into my life? Does it bring more physical prosperity in my life? Does it bring erotic joy in my life? Do I feel connected and respected in this relationship? And if you go further up, am I crazy about this person? Am I in love with them? Do they delight me? If they don't, if you can't stand their company anymore, it's a problem. Absolutely. How that happens, when that happens, how you could prevent that from happening, I think, I don't know if there's one particular solution to that, but if you start to get bored with your partner, if whenever you're sitting and talking to them and they're talking and you're like, I don't even want to listen, that's a problem. That can happen on a second date. Yes. That can happen early in a relationship, like, sex was good, I don't really enjoy spending time with him or her afterwards. That's a big sign. And it's not nothing automatic. It really nothing is automatic. Good companionship is extremely important. And good companionship is nothing to be taken for granted. Again, and this is not specifically a man-woman romantic issues. Our male friendships are the same way. You've never had friends you got bored with, or a friend that a friend brought and you sat on a table or dinner with them and for two hours, you're like, Oh my God, this person is so fucking boring. Yeah. Yep. It only means not that person is not, you're probably not going to have a great friendship with that person. Whether that person is very interesting to somebody else. You're like, you don't feel any, whereas some, you may meet somebody and you have a, you're, you talk, you're talking for two hours and the time has flown by. Hopefully those are your friends. So I would say the companionship piece is extremely important in a relationship. Absolutely. And I actually have a section I'm writing on be a great companion. Women can learn to be a great companion too. And I, this is a very big part of my men's training as well. You know, men get hit hard by this, but one of the most common complaints I hear from women regarding new connections with men is it's boring. And they're not being evil. I don't think they're being, they're not being mean and are boring. They're boring the women a little bit. And the women are like, he's nice. He's even handsome. He's got things going for him. He doesn't do anything for me. Doesn't raise my pulse. Yeah. I feel bored around him. It's, it's hard to get over. It's kind of non-negotiable when somebody is boring and unstimulating or you don't enjoy their company or you're not looking forward to seeing them again. It makes sense why Fifty Shades of Grey made so much money. Say that again. It makes sense why Fifty Shades of Grey made so much money. How do you mean in that context? I just mean, if let's say people are into, or have settled or in relationships that are a bit stagnant and not exciting, or they're, you know, they're going on dates with people they're not interested in. And then here comes this, you know, entertainment. Well, yes, I think certainly resorting to fantasy is a, maybe a solution or a response to that. Yeah. Fantasy is more interesting. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:22:54 - 1:23:07) I think, I think it's really important to like maintain your personal sense of self within a relationship, because I think that's what makes companionship interesting as well. There's you're, you're always grappling with new things as an individual and your personal growth journey. [Speaker 1] (1:23:07 - 1:23:33) And there's things to talk about in that regard. If you're just waiting for the other person to like give you your sense of self, then, you know, that's crap. No, not at all. I think, you know, I would advise people in general, stay interested. Yeah. Stay interested, stay interesting, keep doing new things so that you are not bored with yourself. Yes. People are bored with themselves if they don't really look at it from, right. People get stagnant. [Speaker 2] (1:23:35 - 1:23:41) Yeah. Yeah. And then they're more willing to just kind of accept whatever the mainstream or media just throws at them. [Speaker 1] (1:23:44 - 1:24:34) Yeah. Om, thanks for coming on with us. My pleasure. Thanks for having this conversation. I know our audience will enjoy it. How can people support you, your work, and give you money for your wisdom and knowledge? I teach workshops. You can, all the workshops are listed on my website, omrapani.org. You can just check things out there. I have a second website, which is a teaching website, where I teach my online classes, and where I also have a lot of free material. So, if you want to explore a lot of free material without paying me money, I've made room for that too, because I want to give you an incline. So, I'll hook you in with the free material, and then you can pay me for my classes. And that website is omrapani.com. So, org is where the courses are listed, and .com is where a lot of the free material and modules are. Thank you so much, man. [Speaker 2] (1:24:34 - 1:24:39) Is there, would you have like anything final that's coming up that you'd like to share with the audience as an end note? [Speaker 1] (1:24:41 - 1:25:34) I feel, I'm feeling, believe it or not, I'm feeling optimistic. I feel a lot of people, I feel a lot of women are maybe turning a corner, that understanding dominant submission, understanding some of the polarity ideas, there are still a lot of naysayers, a lot of laggards, who are like, all this is evil, and you people are Neanderthals. But I also see a lot of women who are crossing that threshold, where like, oh, they're seeing their self-interest, and finding a man they respect, and having a hierarchical dynamic. They're like, no, this works for me because I am exhausted. Women today are exhausted, and they have been trying the egalitarian model for a long time, and they are not getting great results. So, I think a lot of women are ready to try something else. Cool. Appreciate it, man. Appreciate your time. Everyone else, thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time. Take care. [Speaker 2] (1:25:35 - 1:25:52) As always, thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed that episode. I'm sure there's potential triggers in there for individuals listening, and also like there's some vulnerability when we're reflecting on our own relationship in light of some of the things that are shared and said. [Speaker 1] (1:25:53 - 1:26:05) But all that is fuel for introspection, and fuel for questioning, and fuel for curiosity. And that's something that we really advocate for. And so, I think personally, I'm glad to provide these conversations. [Speaker 2] (1:26:05 - 1:26:27) I'm glad to provide some triggering moments because ultimately, that's what leads to growth. So with that being said, once again, thank you for being here. Thank you to our members at Friends of the Truth. You can head to friendsofthetruth.co to join our premium community and receive a lot of value there. I think we're going to be making an announcement about Rise Above the Herd, our 12th round. [Speaker 1] (1:26:27 - 1:26:51) This is our 10-week group coaching program for truth seekers to really become who they were born to be. You can join the waitlist at riseabovetheherd.co. Generally speaking, we only take 12 students per round. And everything else can be found at hereforthetruth.com. There's a lot of websites, I know, but if you do go to hereforthetruth.com, you can be led and redirected to our membership community or to our group coaching from there as well. Lots of love and see you next time.