Aubert Bastiat The Truth Shall Set You Free

[Speaker 1] (0:00 - 0:09) Coming up in this episode. And I've been through the fire. I've lost everything that was dear to me and came through richer than ever. [Speaker 2] (0:09 - 0:19) Bro, you've been swimming in a volcano, man. You've been more than through the fire, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Holy crap, dude. You're the walking definition of Here for the Truth right now, by the way. Wow, man. [Speaker 4] (0:19 - 0:26) You are now listening to the Here for the Truth podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Jurassimos. [Speaker 2] (0:29 - 0:48) What's up, everybody? Welcome to the Here for the Truth podcast. My name is Joel Rafiti. I've got my co-host Jurassimos with me, as always. We appreciate you guys dropping in for another episode as we close in on that 300 number. Pretty, pretty soon to be coming up, that's for sure. What a ride it's been, bro. What a ride. [Speaker 3] (0:49 - 1:34) It's been a wild ride. And for all the woo-woo people out there, you said 300, right? As it was 11.11 for me on my phone. But yeah, man, it's been a wild ride. Sometimes I look at the number of episodes and I go, where did this come from? Like, we're almost at five years and about a month will be five years from when we dropped our first episode. Like, five years. That's half a decade. Wow. That we just can like show up. I mean, those first two years we were on other sides of the world. We just show up. We sit at our computers. We open up Zoom. We just keep doing the thing. We doing the thing, doing the thing. And life goes on. And like, it's pretty cool. You know, it's pretty amazing. We get to have these conversations and we get to talk with like incredible people. And our guest today is, you know, another amazing conversation. Yeah, absolutely. [Speaker 2] (1:35 - 3:45) Strap up for this one. We got Aubert Bastiat in the house. And this is a wild journey and a wild ride. But so many valuable lessons and realizations and teachings in the nuance of this story that you're about to hear. Right before we get into that, an incredibly easy entry point into our world that people are absolutely loving and also into yourself is our free seven-day mini course, Self-Esteem Resets. Dana, who recently finished the course, she says, although very condensed, this reset is very potent. It allows you to do deep work, metabolize it. And at the end of each video, you are left with an action to take to help with integration. So this is seven days, less than 10 minutes per day. But the caveat is to keep the course for life, you have to finish it. Otherwise, it expires after that seven days. So you can start it right now or whenever you feel called at selfesteemresets.com. We'd love for you to check it out and really just become connected to the great work of Nathaniel Brandon, who in many ways is the father of self-esteem. All that being said, here is Orbea. Orbea Bastia is a transformational coach, relationship mentor and father devoted to helping men, women and couples heal the patterns that keep them disconnected from love, truth and embodied leadership. Drawing from deep inner work, nervous system awareness, spiritual wisdom and lived experience, Orbea guides people into greater intimacy, emotional maturity and alignment with the most high. His work bridges ancient wisdom and modern relational insights, supporting people in building stronger marriages, deeper self-trust and more meaningful lives. Orbea is a brother. We shared some personal time together during his time here living in San Miguel, Diende. I love this man. I love his family. Been looking forward to this conversation. It's an honor to have you here, bro. Welcome to Here for the Truth. [Speaker 1] (3:46 - 4:02) Hey, thank you, Joel. Thank you, Rasmus. So good to be here with you both today. Wow. I know it's been a long time coming. I've seen some of the clips and listened to a couple episodes. And wow, you guys have some incredible guests. So it's an honor to be here with you all. [Speaker 2] (4:03 - 4:19) Appreciate that, bro. Dude, one way we always like to dive in with the first time guests is we really want to unpick your personal hero's journey, wherever you feel called to start with that, some of the major rites of passage, the things that I guess were really those main catalyzing moments that led you on this trajectory. [Speaker 1] (4:21 - 10:58) It's a big question. It's a big question. Yes. Hero's journey, aptly put. Yeah. You know, it goes back to being born to a mother, Taiwanese mother and an American father. So just having this dichotomy of the East and the West and having the work of alchemizing that I was born in Taiwan and lived there for the first five years of my life before moving to Southern California amidst the separation of my mother and father. And so I was raised largely by my mother, along with my two sisters in a single mother household. My dad would come and be like kind of the Disneyland dad over the summers. He'd come when we were off school and he'd take us on road trips, camping, all the kinds of fun stuff. But I think underlying all of that was the deep grief and confusion around my parents' separation. There was no explanation. There was no, hey, we love you guys very much, but mommy and daddy aren't working it out. We're fighting a lot and it's not good for you guys. So we're going to separate. But we love you. There was no explanation. So there wasn't clarity. There's a lot of confusion around that. And I carried that wound of my parents' separation, of my dad's absence, and I blame myself like any child would, like we take it all on ourselves as children. And so My Hero's Journey has really been this passage out of the unconsciousness of my parents. And I guess, you know, like most of us, cross-generational trauma and inheriting that and having to alchemize that and find my way into the world. And yeah, make sense of life from that perspective of like, OK, well, even though there was a lot of grief and confusion in my childhood and I got to see firsthand the consequence of what happens when there's the absent father who wasn't there, especially at the pivotal moments, he left our life completely when I was 11 years old, 10, 11 years old, the summer of sixth grade. He was visiting and they got into a huge fight. My mom wanted child support, wanted him to continue paying child support. I mean, we were all quite young at that time. I was 10. My sister was 8. My older sister was 12. And so, you know, a single mother in a foreign land, you know, she was Taiwanese. And so she's, you know, just making it by going to school, finding out like how she's going to thrive in a different country. And I think there was a lot of shame for her for marrying an American man, for her family who were like, hey, don't do this. Not a good idea. And she, you know, rebelled against them and did it anyway. And when we were in Taiwan, we had a lot of familial support. We had a lot of connection and, you know, cousins and aunts and all the things. And that really supported us. And I think having a sense of belonging and a sense of home. But coming into the U.S., I think we are much more isolated. My, you know, my mother being Taiwanese didn't really understand American culture at all. And so she was kind of flying blind in many ways. And so it came to head, it all came to head. And he made a proposal. And this kind of gives you an idea of who my father was. He spoke like five languages, brilliant man, mining engineer, professor, really left brain, you know, really intellectual, but emotionally retarded, just didn't understand human relationship at all. And he offered a lump sum for myself and my younger sister and said, you can keep the older sister. She's already been corrupted. But I'll take the two younger ones and we'll just part our ways, just won't see each other again, just like have a nice life kind of thing. And my mom was like, of course, absolutely not. You're fucking crazy. And from that place, you know, my mom, it escalated, they got into a fight and my mom called the police. My dad grabbed all this shit and just took off and police came. And this was like, I think, a pivotal, traumatic experience that I later down the road would come back to in kind of like a visionary experience to reckon with. But suffice to say, it felt like the end of my world. And so it was, I think, just a deeply traumatic experience of like the literal manifestation of my worst fears, because I was always secretly hoping that they'd get back together since he was still coming. And I'm like, maybe there's a chance that they'll, you know, get back together and we'll be a whole family. And so just felt that so viscerally as a young boy of like wanting that wholeness, wanting to experience that wholeness and seeing that in some of my peers, seeing that some of my friends and going, why don't we have that whole family? And since it was never communicated to us, there was a lot of confusion around that. And a lot of like self, I took it upon myself of like, OK, there's something wrong with me. You know, that's I'm not lovable. That's why dad didn't stay. That's why our family didn't work out. And so really, my passage into into the world was there was always this weight of carrying this weight of there's something wrong with me. You know, there's there's shame there. There's shame around my family, shame around being poor and overcompensation in really wanting to be popular, wanting to to be liked. And so, you know, that manifested in like me wanting to me somehow always finding a way to be like, you know, popular or like, you know, be the class clown to get attention in different ways that were, you know, coping and in definitely maladaptive to some degree. But they are also adaptive as well. So, yeah, my passage really was the hero's journey was really all about reckoning with this core wound, this split between masculine and feminine, mother, father, east and west, and with myself and alchemizing all of that. Thank you. Yeah. [Speaker 3] (11:00 - 11:08) Yeah. When was it that, like, you started realizing all this stuff about yourself, like the deeper patterns and you were like, OK, I got to start working on myself? [Speaker 1] (11:09 - 18:08) Well, I was largely unconscious. And I remember, you know, I had a lot of like, you know, like I had a lot of anger. You know, I had a lot of anger. There's a lot of vandalism early on in elementary school. I got my first felony when I was in fifth grade. Me and a group of boys just like vandalized the whole neighborhood. We like vandalized a bunch of cars. And eventually we got caught because, like, there's some people that saw and they found like a bunch of these car emblems that we had accumulated in our house. And so, yeah, I proceeded for many years, even into high school, largely unconscious. And by the grace of God, I mean, I was also just to say it's kind of a foundational point is I was born into an atheistic household. So there was no God, no spirituality, no religion, no magic. It was like largely just like what you see is what you get. This was my dad's view. He was very anti-religion. He wasn't just like, you know, he was anti. So it was like Christians and, you know, religious people are crazy. They, you know, they're feeble minded. They need this like kind of story, story tale, the fairy tale to kind of ease their existential angst about death. That was his perspective. And so I carried that as well. And going into school, you know, it's kind of like this melting pot of different cultures. And we're in Southern California. And so I had the opportunity to and I was kind of like a chameleon. I was able to, you know, adapt to my environment. And I was able to find my way to become friends with a lot of different types of people and families. And we are fortunately my mom had the awareness to try to get us into like a kind of a nicer district because, you know, where you live is, you know, where you live determines where you go to school. And so we ended up kind of living in these apartments in this was an elementary school and even middle school and high school in like nicer areas. And so we are, you know, kind of in the more affluent areas. And I had the opportunity to see other families. And like, I was like, why is my family like this? And I started kind of questioning, like, why am I like this? Like, why do I feel so much anger? Why do I feel so much hatred? Why do I feel these feelings? And I didn't quite understand any of it at the time. But I remember just I think this is through the grace of God is I got connected with some really good people, some really good friends that I still call my friends to this day and in middle school and in high school that helped me start to see myself. They helped me start to see myself just through their kindness and their love for me. And I love them too. But my love was it was wounded. And so there was this kind of shadow where I recall, like, you know, simultaneously loving and supporting, but also secretly hating on and wishing for their demise. And these were like my closest friends, you know. And I remember one day, one of my friends, like I think he got a bad grade on a chemistry test and he was like, just crushed about it. He was like, oh, man, like this. He just totally disappointed. And I remember feeling like happy about that. I was like, like, yes, that's what you get kind of thing. And I remember like just shortly following that, I was like, why do I feel glee or good about someone that I care about, like their pain? Why does that make me feel good? And so that really began this like kind of inquiry that kind of started, like I started thinking about, like, what is this? Where does this come from? And I was also I got into the Internet. I got into the Internet in middle school and high school and kind of got into like online, like software pirating and kind of like the shadow side of like the online life because there's the anonymity that factor. And so I kind of like got to wear different identities. Right. And I got to like got to play life in the Internet. And I think that that really helped to accelerate my process of self-awareness, getting on to mess the early message boards. We found Arrowwood very early, Arrowwood's like a psychedelic database. And so my friends and I in high school started dabbling in psychedelics. We like would get a Hawaiian wood rose, the LSA, like surgic amides. Right. It's like a precursor to lysergic acid. And we found out that you could get these in morning glory seeds or Hawaiian baby wood rose seeds. And so I ordered some, we stole some from Home Depot and, you know, we started tripping. And I think that this like really spurred on my process of self-awareness and had some crazy trips for sure. Definitely some crazy times that I'm like, oh, my God, I can't believe we lived through some of that stuff, you know, driving under the influence of substances that we didn't understand. And I think with the risks, my willingness to take risks, I just kind of always had the willingness to take the risk, to play the full, to make mistakes because I felt like I had nothing to lose. Right. There wasn't a God. There wasn't some like greater power or, you know, and I didn't really have a good like moral template based on my father. He was kind of, you know, definitely on a narcissistic spectrum. And yeah, so it was really, I think, really seeing some incongruency. I'm like, this is something's wrong with me. Like, why do I revel in people I love, like their sadness or their pain? Why does that make me feel good? And so I think that really initiated that process alongside with the psychedelics, alongside the Internet. Yeah. You know, it was really that and also seeing like a lot of different families and having a lot of different people, like a really good, a really wide spectrum of people that I've been able to come in contact with that kind of gave me some examples, some models of like, oh, this is how humans do life. And so I think I was able to gather a lot of data on my condition. And I think coupled with the psychedelics, it was able to break me out of this narcissistic fixation where I was like, I couldn't see outside of myself. And I started seeing outside of myself, started being able to self-reflect and question like, hey, why do I do these things? Why do I want to do these things? [Speaker 2] (18:09 - 18:25) Beautiful, man. Yeah. So then what does like the deeper maturation process look like for you from there? Obviously, you've been quite influential in the men's space. You know, you do this work for a living now. So like, how did the spiritual evolution move forward from that point, I guess? [Speaker 1] (18:27 - 23:08) Yeah, well, you know, I would say that it's still precise. I was still largely unconscious and driven by ego desires and ego needs, like, you know, wanting, you know, money, power, status. I had to be really innovative and being able to self-source because my mother, you know, single mom, didn't have a lot of money. And so I started working very young, started doing, you know, telemarketing, sales, retail, selling stuff online. So I just started doing a lot of different things, building websites, started dabbling many things. And I think I've always had kind of this entrepreneurial, like, go get them energy. And so that led to my downfall because I eventually started selling drugs. I started selling weed, cannabis. And this is before it was, you know, legalized and easy to get. And I actually used, like, Friendster. I don't know if you guys remember Friendster in my space. I would use these tools to find people, do this local searches to see who would, like, have, like, weed on their profiles that I just, like, shoot them messages to get clients. And I started doing pretty well for myself. I moved out of my mom's house, mom's apartment when I was 19. And was with, like, some of my other, some friends from the time. And we were kind of like, we all, like, sold weed in that house. And, you know, we were throwing parties and it was a great time. Plastic weed house. Yep, yep, totally. You know, people hanging out, bong rips all day. But I wasn't like, I definitely wasn't one to overindulge at the time because I was like, this is, it would just, like, I think at the time, cannabis, just the effect it had on me was just not very productive. And I did end up kind of, like, going down because I did have a stint of an addiction with methamphetamine between, like, 15 and 17. Went pretty hard in that. And just, like, I was, like, I think it felt like I was holding the world together because I was, you know, AP classes, honor, yearbook editor, commissioner of spirit. You know, I was a dude on stage. I was, like, doing too much and simultaneously selling drugs and, like, you know, staying up and just being, you know, being an idiot, basically. But with all that, it kind of, I was able to get off. But I eventually did end up getting arrested when I was 19. And got arrested for possessions for sales. And this resulted in, I tried to fight it, but I was like, they set me up. So I had my first experience of, like, being set up. I had all the stuff in one bag. And I also, but I had a scale. I was just, I was out of my mind, literally up for, like, days. And they found it in the trunk of my car. And they broke it up into separate bags. I saw the evidence that they had. And it was, like, they broke it all up into bags and, like, made it, you know, so that I couldn't get out of it, basically. And so, you know, experienced that kind of corruption. And was just like, fuck this. Even though I was, you know, guilty of it, there was that experience of, like, wow, this happens and this is a real thing. And my dad was always very anti-establishment, very into objectivism, Ayn Rand, you know, just big on that. And so that definitely influenced my perspective of life. But I would say that, yeah, just my experience in jail, I got sentenced to six months, which is in Men's Central Jail in Los Angeles. It's really, you know, pretty brutal jail. And it was in that experience that I was like, wow, I don't belong in this world. This is fucking crazy. Seeing people get beat half to death right in front of me. It was scary. I was scared. I was like, this is nuts. Like, this is crazy. But in my time there, I kind of adapted and kind of like, I think just in my soul essence, there's like a part of me that's very light, very positive, very optimistic. And I would console other people in there. And it was an interesting experience because I was like, experiencing seeing the light even in the darkness, but at the same time also seeing like the bleak perspective of a lot of these men I was in there with who are, you know, heading to serve 25 to life for murder and all kinds of stuff, gang related stuff. How old are you in jail? [Speaker 3] (23:09 - 23:09) 19. [Speaker 1] (23:10 - 23:33) I was 19. Yeah. And so it was like, it was definitely a shock to my system to see like the depths of that because it was always kind of skirting, like, you know, playing with crime in a way and just like, whatever. You know, I didn't, I wasn't afraid. But like, I think being in there, it was like, I don't ever want to come back here. This is nuts. [Speaker 3] (23:33 - 23:40) That's crazy that they were putting you in with like people that were going to be doing like 25 to life. Well, because that's the holding. [Speaker 1] (23:40 - 26:32) It's like, that's where people are going to court and getting, you know, awaiting sentences. So you're just in there with everybody. And this is a, this is a, it was a wake up call because I saw like, the kind of dog eat dog mentality and like the gang mentality that rules the jails. And it's like, you see the brutality, you see the corruption from the guards, and you also see that there's drugs in there and they, you know, you make alcohol in there. I saw, you know, there's definitely interesting parts of that. But it was also like, man, this is nuts. And I don't ever want to come back here. But still, even through that, you know, I got out early. Thank God. And but I went right back into the old patterns because I had not dealt with the core wound, which is really, I think, related to my father, which definitely related to my father. And so getting out, I went kind of back into it. And I was, you know, it's like, I think holding too much so that I could avoid being still and like having to be with myself. So I was, you know, selling and working and and going to school. So I was like juggling so many things that I didn't have really time to just be still. And this culminated in me going back in into addiction. And I had a, I had a formal probation officer. So I had to call this hotline every day to see, see if I'd have to go in and get tested the next day. So I'd have to call in every day. And I had missed, I had missed a couple. And I am already and in my PO was like, you're a good kid. Like, what are you doing? You're going to go to prison. I'm going to have to send you to prison if you keep this up. And so that kind of like, I was like, okay, I got it. I got to really be on this. I got to really be on this. And so I started, I started being on it. I started and I started getting clean. This is when I started getting clean. And I started working out. I started working out. I was like, really like kind of always a tall, thin guy, especially in high school. And I think that this is also kind of a source of like, like low self, I didn't feel confident in myself. I mean, I was able to, to front and kind of like found my way. But I think at a core level, as men, we need to be, we need to feel strong. You know, I think that that's part of like our makeup, at least at some point, we need to feel that we need to be able to go through that and push our limits and be like, fuck. Yeah, I'm strong. And so I started this journey of health. And that kind of set me into this, like, I started getting into gym life and working out and being into, you know, just fitness for a couple years, and was able to completely transform my body and become like my ideal of like, wow, I'm fucking ripped. And like, this is this is dope. But I was also like, still on ego. So I was like, looking in the mirror working out like, fuck. [Speaker 3] (26:32 - 26:40) Yeah, it's like, it's like one addiction, you trade one addiction for another addiction to somebody was a little healthy. It's a little healthier, but you know, a little healthier. [Speaker 1] (26:41 - 33:36) But yeah, I did. I got addicted to the gym. I got addicted to the gains. I was like, and that life it was it was healthier. But it was still it wasn't built on a solid foundation, right? But it was it was something that gave me a sense of self confidence. I was like, okay, cool. Like, I'm, you know, I felt good in my body. I felt strong. I felt like I could do anything, like physically, and coming out of like deep addiction. And I think when I got arrested, I was like 120 pounds, I'm 63. And so I was able to, you know, I maxed out like 220 pounds, I was like, very lean fat, you know, and felt, you know, very, very good and very strong. But I didn't have the psychology to like, kind of ground the physique, I didn't have the psychology to ground it. So I was still very much ego oriented and going after girls and like, so just messing around. And it came to head again, because I relapsed after I got those gains. And I was like, you know, feeling like unstoppable. I was still selling weed. That's what it was. I was still selling cannabis, and I was still in that house. And so I was still around people who were living that life. And I remember like, one of my roommates had someone come over, and he was selling some cannabis to him. And he was in the bathroom. I saw him like through my bedroom. He was in the bathroom smoking meth. And that triggered me. I was like, oh, man, like, oh, man, like, that was good. Like, I was like, those are good times. And my mind started like, kind of going, and it was only a matter of time. And then I relapsed. And that relapse took me into psychosis. It took me down, like, took me into like, the netherworlds. And this was like, my first experience of kind of like, just it felt very like, this time around, it was like, it was dark. It was very dark. I had like, suicidal ideations. I was living in kind of this alternate reality, I would say, and having encounters from like, you know, ghosts, demons, whatever you want to call, you know, disembodied spirits. And, you know, hearing voices, all kinds of like, weird stuff that was like, and I was still an atheist at this point. But I was like, you know, kind of opened me up to the occult. And so I started like, reading occult stuff and started reading about like, you know, just started reading more of that material. It's like, okay, I'm going down those rabbit holes. And I'm tweaking, I'm just like, you know, in this, in this alternate reality, and it gets like, really weird. You know, I'm seeing like, my clocks glitch, I'm looking at the clock, and it like, goes back and it goes forward. I'm like, seeing weird shit that I, I don't believe it was a hallucination. I mean, it was real as, I mean, who knows, you know, but it seemed like, like my reality was being fucked with. And so that really started me opening me up to like, like the potential of ETs. And I'm like, and spirits and all that, that world, but I had still not made made it to God yet. I still not but I was like, like looking, looking into David Icke, I was looking into like, you know, different material. You guys had a Tom, Tom Montauk on. He was one of the people that I found very early on as well. And so yeah, kind of started going into to a lot of that. And that that spurred on my, my evolution in some ways, but I was also still stuck in this addiction. And I remember, I was actively seeking, like, how do I get out of this? How do I get out of this addiction, because it felt like a prison that I couldn't get out of. And it was, it was very bleak for me, it was very dark. And I was like, starting to I would like ideate on suicide as being the way out, like, maybe like, that's the best way out. And I had some encounters where like, I would, I had like, like possessions, practically, where I just felt like I wasn't myself anymore. I wasn't in control. And it would always happen after like a binge, you know. And I was able to, I was able to find my way into, you know, during this time, I was working, you know, I was also working in IT, I was working in tech, I was like, you know, doing tech support, and, you know, worked for, you know, different companies, like Kingston and, and I was still using so I'd like I'd try to like relegate my use to the weekends and like, just like, you know, work on the weekdays, but sometimes it bleed over. And so I'd have these experiences, really odd experiences where I feel like my unconscious would bleed into the like, the reality and influence and influence other people and kind of like they would seem like they would be influenced by my shadow and react to me in like, really strange, bizarre ways. And so I was just like, I felt like I was going crazy. But it was it was really, I think, my experience of how our consciousness affects others. And so since I was like, kind of in a really toxic space, and there's probably like a lot of unprocessed self hatred, and just shame and all these things, I would like, see that reflected to me in real time in the very like innocuous environments, like the office, you know, where someone would just like say some crazy shit to me. And it was like, it was like the Matrix, like Agent Smith, like, like coming in and like, you know, attacking me and then like phasing out. And I'm just like, what did that just happen? So with all that, you know, I was living like I still living that fast life. I was riding my motorcycle. I had a Suzuki Gixxer 1000 liter. And so I was like, you know, I felt very like I was unstable. I was driving, riding fast. I was doing drugs. I was like, you know, staying up not sleeping. And I was living of like, I was like, basically on a path towards death. Are you fucking lived, bro? You've lived, bro. Yeah, I mean, I think we have to live before we we can share that, right? We have to be able to have experiences and find our way out of those experiences, to be able to transmit and share that with others. But yeah, it was really like, I think that dark night, I was just in the darkness, and there was no God. And so there was no one to reach for. And I felt so much shame that I didn't feel worthy of even asking for help. I think that that's like the masculine prison, right? It's just like, I can handle it on my own. I don't want to show weakness. I'm fine. But I wasn't fine. What was it? [Speaker 3] (33:36 - 33:39) What was your relationship to your mom and your sisters like during all this? [Speaker 1] (33:40 - 53:49) So it was hard because both my older sister, she started going into bipolar episodes in high school. So she was manic depressive, what they call manic depressive. These are labels. But she was having these episodes. She'd been hospitalized. And my younger sister, unfortunately, she was raped by her best friend's older brother in middle school. And that also precipitated the onset of her psychosis. She was schizoaffective. And so it's kind of a blend of schizophrenic tendencies and voices and all those things, hallucinations. And on the other side of that, also the manic swings up and down into depressive, suicidal states and in manic states. And so I was like, I felt this weight, being the only male in my family, I felt this weight that I had to help them. But I was running from it through the drugs, through just living in an illusion, basically, because I couldn't reckon with their problems and my own. I was like, I got my own problems to deal with. I can't help them. And so our contact would be brief. I'd come by and say hello and whatnot. But it was difficult. It was a really difficult point, I think. We all had pretty rough paths into this life. And I think I was 23. I had just gotten a new job. I was able to find a job in the graveyard shift. I was like, that's what I wanted, so I can continue using. I was like, I didn't see myself coming off of drugs. I'm like, OK, graveyard shift, that's great, because then I'll be able to continue using and kind of be low-key about it and just make my way. But it was really a godsend, because this graveyard shift job where I was working in tech and responsible, working with systems and networks and all that, it was also a very solitary job. I was alone for most of that time. And being alone, it became this space for me to start to face myself in some deeper layers of what I had been running from. And simultaneously, my mother reached out. And she said, hey, Shonda's not doing well, my younger sister. She's not doing well. And I feel like she needs a change environment. And so you've got this job now that's solid, and you're making good money. So maybe we could pull our resources together and give her a fresh start. And so that began this. And I was living with some roommates. And it was like another party house. And I was like, OK, this sounds like probably a good idea. And I was like, maybe I'll be able to help them. I'll get off drugs. So I had hopes. And so we all moved to a nicer area together. And it was kind of this return to childhood in some ways, like another round of adolescence in a different way, though. And I think this is where I realized this kind of began the journey of being pulled in as a kind of a surrogate spouse and father. I kind of became that figure in my family in some ways. My mom would make me lunch for work. And I was paying the bills. And I was doing my best to be the responsible one. But it was hard. It was hard, because I still had this closet addiction. And so I would party on the weekends, and binge, and then go back into the grind on the weekdays. And I'd be sleeping during the day. And I was just all out of sorts. And I came to a point where I was really making an effort to quit. And I was throwing away the drugs, and just constantly in this cycle of throwing it away, and then regretting it, and getting more deleting numbers, and then going, oh, man, going, jumping through all these hoops to try to find. It was just a really toxic cycle. But it was like my will versus my anti-will, right? Like the Thanatos, the death impulse that had me, it had me. But my soul was fighting for life. And so it was just that kind of back and forth, push and pull. And it came to head one night, because I deleted all my numbers, deleted all my contacts. And I was like, I'm not going to use. I'm not going to use. I'm going to stay home this weekend. I'm not going to go out. I'm just going to stay home. And it was that addictive personality, that part of me that was this clever, like, hey, actually, I know you deleted all the numbers, but let's actually just go look at the phone records. Let's go find the phone record, and let's just find the number. And that way, we'll be able to get drugs. And I just felt disgusted with myself. I was like, I just felt disgusted with myself. And that piled on with all the shame and self-hatred. I was just like, and it just like a cold awareness washed over me. I was like, suicide. I got to end my life. That's the way out. This is like, I'm a shame to my family. I'm a shame to myself. And it was just like, I don't deserve to live. That was kind of really the predominant voice that kind of took over. It was like, I don't deserve to live. I have no honor. What am I doing? And my family, they're depressed. They're suffering. They're going through it. My sister's in and out of psychiatric hospitals. And it's just like, it's a very dark. I was in a very dark place, especially with all the shame of not being able to be the man of my family, to be like the good brother, to be the good son. And so, yeah, I just decided to end it. I decided to end my life. And in that decision came all this grief. Came all these way, this was this huge wave of grief and sadness. And I was just crying alone in my room. Like, wow, this is it. This is how my life ends. Like, this is the end point. And I'm crying alone in my room. I'm grieving. I'm imagining them walking and finding my body. And I'm like, fuck, this is going to be like. And previously, I actually had this, the possession experience. I tried to, I had this kind of possession takeover. And I wanted to, my impulse and my, like, the cold clarity that came through that possession was, I need to find a gun to go kill my family and kill myself. So I had like this bout of when I was using, where I like something came over me. And literally, I was like, this is the way. This is the solution. And I was really making efforts to get a gun. And I remember after I came out of that psychosis, someone that I reached out for a gun reached out and said, hey, I got the strap. I got the strap that you needed. And I was like out of it at that point. I was like, oh, I'm cool. I don't need it anymore. But it was just like kind of this reminder, like you were literally nuts, you know. But this time around, I was just like, I'm just going to go out alone. And I was grieving that this is the last day that I was going to be here on earth. And as I was grieving, I was crying. And I was thinking about them finding my body and them crying and them breaking apart. And then something inside of me cried out for help. It was like my first experience of feeling what my soul felt like. And my soul cried out to God. For the first time ever, I prayed. I prayed to a God that I didn't believe in. I said, God, if you're real, I need to know. And if you're real, then you'll know I'm serious. I'm going to end my life. I have nothing to live for. And in that moment, my room filled with this rapid high vibration frequency, like a high pitched energy that just completely filled my room and engulfed my room. And then that, it felt like it was outside of me, was suddenly inside of me. And after some time, it felt like my heart broke open and I just started weeping, feeling God's grace and God's mercy for my life. And just like, I was just weeping. Like, it felt like I was weeping tears that were just so old and so, from even my childhood. And I was just crying for a long time. And as I was crying, it felt like I was being cradled by a universal mother father. It felt like I was being cradled by the most loving, unconditionally loving parents. I'd never experienced a love like this. And I just wept. And I said, thank you. Thank you. Don't ever leave me. And God spoke to me without words. It wasn't audible, but it was like just a knowing in my heart. God said, I've always been here. I'll always be here. Follow me. And I begged God to not leave. And so God stayed for a time, like this full presence of just like, just pure grace and mercy and love and peace. Just the first time I'd ever felt absolutely perfect, like everything is perfect. And when God left, when the presence left, I was completely at peace. I didn't have any cravings. I didn't feel like I needed to do anything except just like bathe in this energy. And my whole, it was like, it was like a baptism, I would say. It was like a death and a rebirth in that process. And so this began the journey. I was like, all right, like, this is it. And so my life went 180. And I just like flung myself into studying what had been written about God from all the different religions, because I didn't have any kind of predisposition to any religion. And so I just started exploring all of them. And I started going to meditate and to pray and going to different houses of worship to experience how they experienced God, what they had said about God. And I started, I just cut off all external input. I kind of became a monk for two years straight. And I was just very devout and very, very ascetic. And so it was just like really literally reading every day, praying every day, meditating every day, and trying to help people. I was trying to help people, whoever came to me. I saw that as a sign that God wanted me to help them. And so I would just make efforts to help whoever God brought me. And the first person that I tried to help was my younger sister, Shonda. And she was battling this schizoaffective disorder, and she was hearing voices. And so I was fanatical. I was fanatical now. I was like, God is real. I was preaching from the rooftops to whoever would listen. I can see my energy now coming off of addiction. All that energy now went into God. It was a little much, a lot much for most people. I was really fanatical about it. I was like, God is real. God saved my life. And I kind of started piecing it together, like a universal spiritual path. And I started trying to help my sister. So I'd force her to literally pray and meditate with me every morning. I'd just grab her from her room and sit her down next to me, and we got to pray. And I would do these spoken word prayers that were an hour long, two hours long. And I would try to rope her into doing them with me, because this was a big part of my own process of overcoming addiction, I would say. Because I didn't ever go back at that. Well, I did relapse, but that's a little down the road. But yeah, and so I was just really fervent and fanatical about God. And I was trying to help my sister. I was pouring all my energy into her. And I was having visionary experiences, no substances. I was having dreams that were lucid. And I was getting all kinds of signs and synchronicities. And I felt like I was divinely guided. I was like, even though I felt like such a miserable human, God saved my life. And so there must be some kind of meaning to my life. I must be here for something. God must have saved me for something, because a lot of people go through that and die, right? And so there's something here for me. I didn't know what it was. But I was like, just keep going, and I'll find it. So I started trying to help my sister. And prior, I had a vision. I was awake, and I had a vision. Not open, I don't know. I saw, basically, in my mind's eye, a vision of me and my sister being on top of this building. And suddenly, my sister jumps off the building. And I'm like, no! And I jump off after her. And I jump, and I plummet to disincarnation. I plummet to my death, the death of my body. But the death, it's not the end. It wasn't the end. And so what happens is my body dies, and suddenly I'm teleported into this bardo, this in-between state, purgatory, I guess you could call it. And I was like, oh no, I'm stuck here. And it was the most awful realization. I didn't have a body anymore, but I had consciousness. But I was in this in-between. I didn't make it to where I wanted to go. But I was just now stuck here without a body. And it was just an awful realization and an awful feeling. And I wasn't able to save her. It was just like I was left with this awful feeling. And I came out of that, and I was like, wow, God's trying to tell me something. Is he trying to tell me I shouldn't be trying so hard to help her? Maybe I was trying to piece it together. And fast forward a little bit, a few months. And one day, I take her to her appointments and whatnot. I drop her off at the bus stop so she can take the bus to her appointments and whatnot. And I remember I'm on the way. I'm driving her. And I'm just pouring out to her. Usually, it's not like this. Usually, I'm listening to meditation music and maybe even praying in the car. But then this time, I just felt compelled to tell her all the things. I was just like, love you so much. We're here for you. I'm going to continue fighting for you. Never going to give up on you. Just trying to speak life into her. And she says, thank you. Thank you. Everything's going to be fine. And that was the last time I saw her. I dropped her off. And that was the last time I saw her. Because that night, she ends up jumping off a parking garage to her death. And yeah, I got the call at work. And my mom was like, Sean died. And yeah, it was devastating. But I spiritually bypassed a lot of it. Because I was like, God, I spoke all the words. I was trying so hard. And so in a way, I was prepared for it. I was prepared for it because I gave it my all. And I did my best. And so I was able to find some peace with it. But I was also like, I need to get my family to... I got to help my family now. Because my mother basically fell into a deep depression, lost her job. My sister started having manic depressive episodes again. And so I was solely carrying my family and our finances. And I was also going to school full time. And so I was just carrying an immense load. And I buckled. I buckled and I relapsed. I relapsed. And I found my way to... On Craigslist or something, I found some drugs. And I was using, I used. And then I felt so much shame. I was using to kind of like numb the pain. And I was just like, I'm so sorry, God. I'm so sorry. I felt so much remorse. And God came like as an energetic field, just enveloped me. And I felt it suck out all of the drugs energetically. Like it was like the sucking feeling was being suctioned from me. And then suddenly I was sober. And God was like, get up and keep going. And so that was what I needed at the time to just be like, it's on. I'm going. I'm loved. I'm supported. And I can do this. But that really defined, I think, you know, I know, like my sister suicide, death by suicide, really kind of defined this. And my mother to this like kind of rescuer in me, like this desire to like rescue and help and save people. And this kind of carried on for a long time. And, you know, I started studying therapy and I decided why God guided me back to school. I thought I was doing communications. I was doing journalism and writing and writing for the school paper. But it was really to bring me into to the healing arts. So, yeah, that's a little bit of my hero's journey. And then, you know, that was to 2009 was when my sister ended her life. And 2008 was when I had my awakening, when I had that my mystical direct experience with God. And I had just, you know, stayed steady with it and found my way into some kind of like kind of cultish, like kind of groups and like, you know, some fringe groups and found my way to a more grounded spirituality from where I am now. And it took 40 years to really get to a point where I feel like my spirituality is really embodied and grounded now. And I'm like not, I'm far from perfect. You know, I'm a flawed human like everybody. But I think the bedrock of my life is my faith and my knowing of my gnosis of God. It's like God saved my life. You can't tell me anything or say anything that will change that. And I do my best to live my life as a testament to that. And when I work with people, my sense is, you know, God is the doer. God is the healer. I'm creating the space for them to connect to that energy within me and within them, right? When two or more are gathered in my name. And so, I'm a firm believer that when we start to feed that force within us, this vital force within us, it can heal anything. It can bring us out of the darkness. It can bring us into the light. And that's who we really are. And it does take a lot of work and a lot of effort and a lot of devotion to uncover that. [Speaker 3] (53:52 - 54:14) So, I know that's a lot. Man, Oberaman, thank you so much for sharing all that. Yeah, just really appreciate you being real and just the journey that you've been on and how you, I know you've used this word, but how you've alchemized the pain, the suffering, your life experiences into who you are, like just sitting here before us now, man. It's a blessing to share this time with you. [Speaker 1] (54:14 - 54:18) Yeah, I'm grateful to be here with you brothers. And, you know, it's... [Speaker 2] (54:21 - 54:36) Right. Yeah. You took me on an emotional journey, man, with that, for sure. I'm sitting here and I'm like, waiting for like the redemptive arc. And it's just like, then I relapsed again. But then I relapsed again. And this is tragedy. Then this. And I'm just like, far out, man. [Speaker 3] (54:36 - 54:41) Were you in SoCal? Were you in the LA area? Orange County. Oh, okay. Cool. [Speaker 1] (54:42 - 1:06:52) Yeah. Yeah. So it's just south of LA. Yeah. Where I grew up. Fullerton, Anaheim, Buena Park, Orange, and Irvine, and down the road. But yeah, it's been a wild journey. It's been a wild journey. And thank you for witnessing and being here and listening and sharing it. And so, yeah, that's a little bit about my hero's journey. And I would say that, you know, with the grief of my sister's death and the bereavement process, that's really what brought me into seeking help and support. That I was in, I think I was still in junior college when it happened. And I was on my path to transferring, transferring to a four-year. And I ended up going to Cal State Fullerton, going towards communications, journalism, because I was writing. I was like, I like writing. But I also had just happened to do enough credits on the psychology side as well, because I'd always been interested in psychology. So, you know, that led to me. Like it started with bereavement, going to suicide groups, dragging my mom and sister there, because they didn't have faith. They were just like broken apart. And so I'd take them to like the bereavement groups. And then that eventually led itself to me seeking out family therapy for us. And so I found a therapist. And that eventually led itself to me stepping into individual therapy. And that's where I started realizing the enmeshment between my mother, the fusion that was happening. And that began my process of individuation, I would say, of just having the awareness of, oh, shoot, I'm married to my mom. And she has a tendency towards fusion and enmeshment, because she's narcissistically wounded. So she doesn't have the capacity. She's not a bad woman. But psychologically speaking, she was living for us. She didn't have her own identity outside of being a mom, which is why my sister's death took her down. And this happens a lot. You know, death of a child. There's really nothing worse, right? You know, I couldn't even imagine. But it's also a part of life. Death is a part of life. But when it's like something so sudden and so shocking, it's shattering. And it shattered her. She was never able to work. And she started forgetting. She started becoming forgetful at that point. It just began. She started forgetting things. And that began the process of her, which eventually evolved into dementia. Yeah, it's been a ride. I always be forever grateful for therapy and group therapy. I'm a fan of therapy. But I also see its limitations and have experienced limitations. And so I shifted majors from communications to human services, which is like more applied psychology. A lot of people want to major in psychology thinking, but it's like you do like lab work and it's not the same. And I was blessed to come into a program where I had the opportunity to actually lead these therapy groups. They didn't call them therapy groups. They call them process groups, existential process groups, 16 week long, semester long process groups for college students who are on the path, undergrad students who are on the path to becoming therapists and social workers and psychologists. And so it was really like a huge accelerator because it was in those two years that I started leading these groups of college students that I started to realize the gift, the gift of holding space, the gift of facilitating and holding others and being able to reflect to them their goal and helping them integrate and come into deeper wholeness. And I was just like, and I had found my first mentor and it was really like such a healing and growing time for me. College was like the best ever for me because I was actually older now. I was working full time in IT and tech and I was also going to school full time and making my way towards what I thought would be licensure and becoming a therapist. But my path veered again and this time around I began to, one of my girlfriends at the time, her mom gifted me this shamanic workshop, with like shamanic drumming. And so I was like, wow, this is powerful because I started experiencing journeys with the shamanic drumming where you could, basically you go into shift into like theta state because of the drumming, the repetitive, it's like 180 beats per minute. You're doing this rapid drumming and it shifts your consciousness and suddenly you're able to, what they do is, you traverse into underworld or upper world. And I was able to experience a lot of healing in that, a lot of power in that. And I was like, wow, okay, this opened my whole world. I was like, maybe it's not therapy and do I really wanna do five years of therapy to get a license to say I can do this work when I'm experiencing how good it is to do it right now, leading these groups. And so my mentors encouraged me to follow my heart. And he's like, you're a star and you're gonna be a star whatever you do. And he was like a surrogate father in some ways. He really helped me to heal my father wound. And through this time, I should say, back in when I was 23, my dad reached out to me on MySpace. He reached out to me for the first time in like 12 years. And this was a big part of my healing process, I believe as well. He reached out to me and was just basically being a nut. And he was just like, don't ever circumcise your kids. If you have kids, you're getting to the age where you might be having kids. Don't ever circumcise your kids or I'll disown you. I was like, what, you've been a ghost to me. And I get it, yeah, I wouldn't do that. But still, you coming and trying to tell me anything, what the, I was just flabbergasted. But it also started this process of talking to my dad and emailing and having a correspondence. And I think this is also big in me being able to heal and come out of the wound because so much of my wound, I think, was wrapped up in feeling unlovable because my dad left. Because I love for whatever, I think a lot of kids, I think we love mom or we love dad or we love them both. But there's usually one parent that we feel more kindred with. And that was my dad. I felt kindred with him and just wanted him, wanted his presence, wanted him to see me. And I think him being such a source of wound is also driving the healing and the growth. And so my mentor was able to hold some powerful space, which showed me the power of literally just presence, no fancy techniques, just literally someone that loves you, that you feel safe with, holding space with you while you tell the truth about your experience. And I was just reading this letter out loud that I wrote to my dad, which was just like, because I was feeling, this was like, I wanted to go to grad school at this point, but I was feeling like I couldn't because I was supporting my mother and my sister now. And so I was already a family man in a sense. I was already bound to this responsibility that I didn't ask for. And so I had this just like, I started feeling this anger towards my dad, like you fucking left our family and left me to carry this. The reason why I'm carrying all this is because you bailed out and did like clean it up. Yeah, okay, fine. But like, you got to do a good job and clean it up, right? And so I had so much anger and I wrote this email to him, which was just like full of this anger, letting him have it, letting, just speaking it fully. And my dad, his reply was like, he didn't apologize, nothing. He was just basically like, you know, we get, we get the lot that we get and you got to do your best to not let it break you. And just, that's what it is. No, no, sorry. I'm sorry that you're, you're carrying this burden. It was just like, kind of like, nothing. It was nothing for me. And I just, exactly. And I just had those anger that had nowhere to go. And I reached out to my mentor and he had me over, he had me come over and I read that letter to him that I wrote to my dad and he held space and I was just like, snot, crying and anger, like just all, it's just rage and anger. Just like, I felt the visceral, like towards my dad, but he was just this compassionate witness and him holding that space with that love and compassion in his eyes, seeing me. And it broke through, the anger broke and rage broke through to just this deep grief of not having a dad who could be a father, you know, having a dad who couldn't, who didn't know how to be a father. And it broke my heart and my heart was just like bleeding and I was just weeping. And my mentor, Stuart, was just, you know, looking at me with his loving eyes and encouraging me to say more and like, is there any more? And like, and through that process, it was like the well had been, you know, all the toxicity was drained from the well inside of me. And I just left that day feeling more whole, feeling like, okay, like I'm not cursed. Like, even though I'm in this position, I'll find a way. It restored me to my sense of responsibility, which is, I think, foundational to being an adult, especially being a man. Like we have to be responsible, right? And our ability to respond to life. And I had felt like a victim. I was feeling like a victim at that point. Like you victimized me, dad, and put me in this place where I had to take care of mom and Linda and Shonda died. And like, look at our life, look at my life. I want to go off into grad school and I can't even do that because I have to work full time to support us. And, you know, where there's a will, there's a way. And I think from that place, you know, things started to click. My sister found her way to, you know, moving. She moved out. And so just me and my mom and I was like, okay, like the next step is to sell the house and we'll figure it out. You know, I got my mom a place. And so I was paying for my mom. I sold the house, was paying for my mom to have her own apartment and she was fine. And just kind of biding my time because I knew with my mom's slow decline that I'd have to take care of her at some point. And it was like my mom's greatest, like it's interesting how like there's people where they're like so averse to something. Like my mom was averse to being dependent on people, but on like a deeper shadow level, she was absolutely dependent, right? And so that manifested in a physical way with her getting dementia and requiring, needing us, needing primarily me to take care of her. And that was like the last several years when we were living in Austin, my mom was living with us and it was hard. Like, you know, it was, but I was beautiful in the beginning, you know, in California, we were still, we were living in Dana Point. And so there was a couple of years when I just became a father, 2018, where she was able to be a grandma and she was like there, she was cooking meals and she was playing with him and she was like still lucid. But that, you know, that process does accelerate and it did. [Speaker 3] (1:06:53 - 1:07:05) And so, yeah, I know that's a lot and I could continue talking, but what, the first time I came across your name was through Sacred Sons. So how did that come about? [Speaker 1] (1:07:06 - 1:18:00) Yeah, so Sacred Sons was a vision that God seeded in my heart back in, I mean, I was doing men's work from 2016 to 2018. And that was the 2018 was when Sacred Sons was birthed. And I had been doing these men's groups, these sacred masculinity circles within this other organization that I was part of called Cosmic Consciousness. And we would just do these, we would do these events at parks. We do these, you know, we just promote it over social media, these free kind of micro festivals. And, you know, people would come from all over from social media like this, like kind of the heyday of social media, 2014, 2015, 2016. You know, I never planned to become an influencer or to build a platform or anything like that. I was literally just like posting pictures of my food and posting like, just like, you know, this is me at the beach or whatever, just like using it like that. And then I started sharing some of my writing. And that was my first experience of virality because I was just like, whoa, like all these people reshared it. I have like 200 likes, you know, coming from like, you know, 5, 10, 15, 20 likes of my friends that knew me, you know. And so it was my first experience of like, whoa, like this could be like a use as a tool. And so I just kept on writing, sharing my writing and it kept on growing. And my account grew and some people reached out and they were part of this crew called the Cosmic Consciousness or it was California Consciousness at the time. And they're like, hey, really love your stuff, like you should come out and like we're doing this event. And so I came out to this event and I was like, wow, like this is the community, like this is the conscious community in 2014 and 2015. This is what it looks like, you know, with the yoga and the meditation and the vegan food and all the things. And so it was in this time where I started like growing and sharing and kind of facilitating and teaching and, you know, talking and we had like talks about psychedelics and plant medicines and it was fun. There were hundreds of people would come out from all over. We did them all throughout Southern California and also New York and Northern California. Lots of fun, lots of good times. And also, of course, shadow, you know, lots of lots of the shadow everywhere, but definitely some shadow here. But I started leading these men's groups at these gatherings, started leading these men's groups and they started growing in size. And, you know, from 10 to 12 to 20 to 30 to 40 to 50 to 60 to 60 men. And I remember two days after my son was born, Cairo, March 8th, 2018, I had to go, I got to go to facilitate at the Cosmic Consciousness Gathering. And this was the one where it was just like so many men and so much power and potency I feel like, you know, just coming in the energy of just becoming a new father and holding all these, holding the safe space for these men and kind of weaving together everything I had learned in therapy world, but also in like the group facilitation world and in kind of the spiritual, like medicine space and kind of just weaves all together into an experience where men could be seen, heard and felt and share in a way that wasn't really super common. I mean, it was common, maybe in more niche, but it was like, and I documented it because that was my thing. I was like, wait, we got to capture this and that's what's going to allow it to grow. And I got the download that day. Like I got the clear message. And I was like, you know, if you build it, they will come. And I said, okay, God, if you want me to lead men's work, then help me find a space where I can facilitate weekly men's circles and build that consistent momentum towards that. And so that was really the genesis of Sacred Sons. It was sacred masculinity at that point. But I had the vision and I was like, okay, this is what I'm going to do. And I started, my friend Franco reaches out to me. He owns a tattoo studio in Orange County. He was like, hey bro, we just expanded our studio. If you want to do any of your hippie gatherings, you're welcome to use my space. I was like, okay, it's on. And so I started leading these weekly men's circles. I started posting them on IG, started sharing about it, started inviting my friends to co-facilitate. And I got the vision, got the download that like, oh, to make this pop, what you're going to do is you're going to, I'm going to create, I'm going to create a large annual men's gathering. And had some friends at the time that I brought in to facilitate and share the idea and he was about it. And that one thing led to another and it was like, it was three of us. It was like, hey, let's do this. My other friend, it was Adam and Jason and Jason had been in Mankind Project for a long time, been doing work with MKP. I'd never done any MKP, but he had some frameworks and understanding. I had some different understandings and frameworks, but my vision for Sacred Suns was always for men to reconnect to their heart. Because I was like, that was my process of like needing to reconnect to my heart and face all the grief and all the pain so that I could experience and come to God eventually. And it felt like a little bit heavy handed if you were to be like, to bring in the God so strong, but like really that was my intention was to help men reconnect to God. And that's, you know, this is wrapped up in that, the sacred, right? But it's, you know, I guess I learned a lot of lessons in like needing to be clear from the get-go and have everything and not just going with good intentions. I've learned some hard lessons going into anything with good intentions. And so, yeah, that began in 2018, built the momentum, built the platform out. And yeah, it was a beautiful time, lots of learning lessons, lots of growth, you know, became a seven figure brand, became quite well known, was on podcasts and doing the thing. But simultaneously, you know, I was also repeating a pattern that I saw of my father's, which was being absent. You know, I was like, I was physically there, but I was like, super wrapped up with Sacred Sons and then growing the business and going on retreat, you know, leading these retreats and going around and, you know, growing the platform and the growth, growth, growth. And there was a growing incongruence with me being able to call myself a Sacred Son when I really wasn't honoring that fully in my own life. And so there was this dichotomy. And I think this was a dichotomy that a lot of people saw and felt throughout the community, you know, and it's a tall order. I think it's so important to understand that we are sacred, that all humans are sacred, all life is sacred, but there's a responsibility that comes with honoring that. And I failed in that. I failed in honoring that for sure. And that, you know, became rather glaring because I was like addicted to social media at a time. I was addicted. I was using it way too much. I was addicted to growth. And there's, yeah, there was there, and then there was a lot of co-founder conflict between me and my co-founders. Me, we, you know, during the pandemic, that like was really kind of this seed, this pivotal shift where I moved my family from Southern California to Austin. And a lot of my co-founders moved to Maui. They moved to Hawaii. And so that was the kind of the beginning of the shift in Sacred Suns. And we brought in other leaders. We are, you know, we are growing at a pretty rapid rate. And I think ideologically, it started veering away from what I originally envisioned, which was like a brotherhood rooted in God. And eventually we weave with the feminine. That was Devonna, my queen was always, she was doing women's work before I was even doing men's work. And so she was doing women's work, women's circles and all that. And my intention was always to weave it together. But yeah, I left, I was forced out before I had the opportunity to see that to fruition. Yeah, it was heartbreaking at the time, but it was also like, you know, the consequence, I think, of all the weight that I was carrying, all the weight I was carrying in my home life, you know, being a father of two going on three, and my mother, which is like kind of this, like really through thread of my whole path is my process with my mother. And I started, I think I just started buckling under the weight of everything I was carrying. And my mother, you know, going deeper into the dementia and getting lost and, you know, not really being safe and kind of being a source of constant stress and pressure. And then also there being like the financial pressure because Sacred Suns, you know, we bootstrapped it and there's more mouths to feed more, you know. And so it was just like, it became, you know, the optics were great, right? But then behind the scenes, it was like, it was a struggle for me. It was a struggle and it was hard. And I didn't feel resources supported. The brotherhood didn't feel like a brotherhood at all. You know, it felt like I, you know, there was a lot of animosity and a lot of like ego and posturing and power maneuvers and dynamics. And I was already kind of on the out in terms of like, now it was like kind of the energy of what was now three co-founders against me. And so, you know, I moved to Austin and they had all moved to Hawaii. And so it was kind of like, I was now on the out and I started kind of rocking it with the Austin crew. And yeah, that created tension as well. And, you know, we did our best to resolve it, but we weren't able to resolve it at the end of the day. [Speaker 2] (1:18:02 - 1:18:11) We weren't able to resolve it. Thanks, bro. Just quickly before I move on, what was the main reasoning for them to push you out from their perspective? [Speaker 1] (1:18:15 - 1:30:26) Well, this is big, you know, I never shared this publicly, but it's a good time here for the truth, right? And so, yeah, the main reason I would say, and this isn't like on official, this isn't the record, but I had come to a point where I was, yeah, I was like, you know, kind of going off the deep end. I was using ketamine. I was, you know, kind of like, just like I was not operating at 100 at all, you know? And at the time I had it in my mind that my partnership with Devana, I was like, you know, she started, we entered into relationship plant-based. And this was one of the foundational pieces of my spirituality that I got into very early on after my awakening. And so I became plant-based. And this was like kind of a religion for me. It was a religion for me. And she was plant-based at the time too. And so she was like, and I told her, I was like, hey, if we're going to go into and go into an intimate relationship, like my deal breakers are no alcohol and that we're plant-based. And at the time she wasn't drinking or, you know, and she was plant-based. And so I was like, okay, cool. Like, okay, that seems fine. And as we grew, she, and she got pregnant, you know, she like, she started eating meat and started, you know, to have a glass of wine here and there. And internally, this was a big point of contention inside of me. It was a big source of angst because I was like confronted with the reality that I was loving her conditionally. I had these conditions on my love of like, you know, don't eat meat and don't drink. And so when she, so as she kind of started loosening up, I think just with pregnancy, she needs more nutrients. Like it's completely understandable from my vantage point now. But at the time I was in this box where I was like eating meat bad. That's like, that's the pathway to, you know, density. And, you know, so I was holding this and this is also kind of, kind of wrapped up in, in like my perspective on it with, with like doing deep work. It's like, you know, to do work when you're lighter, you know, like vegetarian or plant-based. But so that kind of started, it created like a, like a rift between us on a, like on a spiritual level. I started like questioning whether we were meant to be together because I was like to be spiritual partners. My belief was like, we got to be aligned on that value level. And that was a value level. And at the same time, we're doing life. Everything is great. We love each other, but there's this kind of growing point of contention. And so I was praying, I was praying to God. I said, God, like, I don't know how to let this go. I don't know how to just let it go and be fine and just be happy about her eating meat and like having doing whatever she wants. And because in like every time, and as she's doing this I'm feeling like we're drifting, we're drifting apart. I'm scared because it means that we're going to have to separate and I'm going to have to, we're going to have to start new relationships. And so there was a fear that was like, oh my God, like are we not spiritual partners and are we not meant to be? And maybe we were just, is that what we are meant to do is just come together and have some kids and have that experience and then now like separate. And so I was praying, I was praying for an answer and a woman came into my life as she came in, reached out to me, saw me on Danny Morrell's podcast or like saw me on Danny Morrell's story and was like, hey, I just felt like I needed to get connected to you. Like I have these issues. And so we like basically started working together and it was not even like a long-term thing. It just like literally like I was called to go out there and facilitate a session for her. And in that session, basically the revelation was like, oh, like she's like, you're my soulmate. Like I know without a doubt, you're my soulmate. We're meant to be together. She's a very, she was a very devout Kabbalist, very devout spiritually. And I found that attractive. She wasn't eating meat, wasn't drinking. I was like, oh, like maybe this is like a divine alignment and God is blessing me with this alignment. But at the time, Devon is pregnant. And I'm like, okay, well, like I'm just gonna sit with all that, nothing happened. There's no exchange of any way, but she did tell me that. And so I was holding that in. I didn't say like, hey, Devon, I met this other woman and but she knew that I went out and facilitated the session and I just kept that from her. I was like, okay, well, I'll just leave that in a box and we'll deal with it later. Because Devon is pregnant and about to give birth in some months and that's a lot. And we stay in touch. So there's emotional infidelity there. And I'm curious, there's curiosity. Even though I'm not like classically, like I'm not like attracted to her per se, my soul was like, wow, there's something here. And that evolves into me going out there again. And this time crossing a line, like sharing about like possibilities of future possibilities and we kissed. So across the line there. And so I was like, okay, like, that's it. Like, I'm gonna, it feels like I'm gonna, I need to explore this, whatever this is. And even though Devon and I weren't married, we were together, we were together all this time. And I considered it a spiritual marriage, but it was also kind of like this cop out, I think, of not wanting to repeat the pattern of my parents, of seeing them get married and go through all that. I was like, I just don't need to get married and I won't have to go through that. And so came back and had all intention to tell her, but didn't tell her. I chickened out. I was afraid seeing her, my pregnant wife, queen was like, hey, what happened? Something happened. Like, I feel something shifted. And I'm like, no, nothing at all. Like, and I just, I kind of tried to brush it under the rug. And there was this like lingering sense because I was like, I had crossed the line, a hard line. And so fast forward, like a week or so, and we had to fly out to a Sacred Sons event that I was facilitating in Mexico. And it was at this event that all hell broke loose, basically. And I, Devana found out, I left my phone. I was like, I was in the pool. I'd left my phone unattended. You know, maybe it was like part of me wanted to get caught. And so she ended up looking at through some messages and kind of stormed out of the casita. And I was like, okay, this is it. This is the moment of truth. I got to lay it all out and put it all down. And so I put it all down. I told the truth and put it all down and told her like, you know, I don't know what this is, but I know I need to explore this and I need to know what this is. And yeah, I broke her heart there at this retreat. And we had two different spaces, one for the facilitation, one for the families. All our families were there. And I was like, can we hold this until we get home and process this? And she's like, I don't know if I can. And so I was like, all right. And so I kind of knew at that point, like this is going to get messy because I'm here to facilitate a men's retreat and this is erupting, right? And so that was like, we're on break. And so I go back into the container with all my co-facilitators and I tell them that night before we go back, I said, hey, look, I'm just gonna say it straight. I met a woman, she was a client. She's psychic and she got this download that she's my soulmate. I know it sounds fucking crazy, but like, I need to know what this is. Like, I need to know what this energy is about. I need to know what this is. And we kissed and we crossed the line already. And so, yeah. And so they're like, okay, we got your back, bro. This is gonna be nuts. This is gonna be messy. No firsthand experience there. There's some kind of votes of like, hey, we'll get through this together. There's some judgment, but like, we'll figure this out. And yeah, the next day it went really sideways. And yeah, I was called into a council. My nanny at the time broke her leg. And so we had to, I had to like, that next day I took my nanny on a mission in Mexico to try to find medical help. And then yeah, and then we ended up, I walked into this council with all my co-founders, some of the leaders, their wives. And yeah, it was just, you know, Devon was there crying and I was held accountable and, you know, attacked and accused of, and, you know, kind of stripped of my title as a sacred son and, you know, shamed and cast out, you know, I was cast out. And there was, you know, a very, very, and I knew, because the thing is, this woman told me before this all happened, she said, she said, you're going to go through a very hard time. And, you know, these sacred sons are not your friends. They're not your real brothers. And they're going to all turn their back on you. And I didn't know at the time what that meant, but I was like, oh, wow, this nanny just further confirmed that she was right. She's like, you know, the psychic oracle and okay. And so, yeah, they, you know, was outcasted and forced to leave the retreat center. And they stripped me of all my access and was shut out of all the accounts and put on a forced leave of absence. And so, yeah, and that began this kind of, the falling, that was the process. And I was like, okay, you know, I knew, I already knew like what was going to go down. And so it became like, basically, I didn't have a lot of leverage. I didn't really, it was like three against one. And so, yeah, it was like a forced buyout, basically. And of course, I wouldn't want to be a part of something where I was treated in this way, you know, like a sacred brotherhood and like, you know, not able to be held, you know, because like, it's like, hey, it's one thing. It's like, this is my personal life. These are my personal matters. And I get it. There's a big connection there with facilitating this work. But this is also the work we hold space for all day long. Infidelity, rupture, all kinds of things, right? But I, you know, I understand in my position as a leader, it's like unacceptable. I get it. But yeah, the way that it was handled, yeah, there's some love lost for sure. [Speaker 2] (1:30:27 - 1:30:35) Yeah. Well, it almost feels like it was like an outward affirmation of what they kind of already wanted. You know, in a sense, it feels a little bit. [Speaker 1] (1:30:36 - 1:35:16) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was already felt. It was already like, it was tenuous, you know, and we made it work. But I think it had grown to that point. And there was, you know, there was desire, especially like limited finances and resources and desire to put those resources elsewhere. And like, you know, there's other politics involved, of course. But, you know, it was my doing of crossing that line. And then that was, you know, so it was a loss of my business, loss of my identity, a loss of my relationship and my mother rapidly declining and loss of my mother. And so it was like another dark night. It was another passage through the darkness for me. And I started, so we're, you know, Duann and I were separated and I was going through the legal stuff with Sacred Sons to get bought out. And yeah, I was kind of flying by the seat of my pants because I realized that this woman wasn't, it was, you know, it just didn't feel right. But it got me out of everything for better or worse. I mean, for better now. I mean, I'm in a completely different place now. But at the time, it felt like very dark. I was just like, I don't even know. I don't even know. So I started experimenting and kind of using more, you know, psychedelics and dating. And just like, you know, I started eating meat. I just started, I kind of just, it dissolved all the beliefs that I had. And I just started kind of walking in without a map. I didn't have a map anymore of reality. It wasn't clearly defined. Now, up was down, down was up. It was all just like, I was like, I was, I had to make new meaning of reality now. And it was a difficult time. And it was a very difficult time because there's a loss of identity, a loss of all these things. And in that process, I had, I attempted to help and take on clients and I should not have. But I took on clients that I should not have and got myself into like just further chaos and craziness. Um, I, we don't even have time to go into all of it, but basically, um, there was an attempt to extort me for $200,000, um, brought a woman and her son to live in our house in our home in Austin. Um, because she didn't, um, she was, yeah, I got her out of an abusive relationship. I rescued her. I was this rescuer. Identity came back full force in this time. I think it was like kind of like this old pattern that kind of came up and was, I was leaning on it because I was under all this duress and like loss and I was going through it. And so I kind of needed to be needed. I think at that time I needed to be needed. And I, so I took on clients for way less than I normally take on clients for, I took on clients. I should not have, there should not have been. It wasn't really in a position to help, um, and kind of created these fused, fused dynamics where they are leaning on me. And like, I was, you know, benefiting from being leaned on because I needed like the identity of like being the good guy of helping, you know, and I got entangled into a dynamic where, um, you know, the, the cart Cartman's triangle, right. There's, um, you know, the, the persecutor, right. And there's the victim and then there's the, the rescuer and you cycle through those. And so I was the rescuer, um, in this one dynamic. And, um, and when I fell from that, um, because yeah, moved her, um, basically allowed her to move into our home. Um, this former client I'd worked with her for a stint and we're just like, she was only able to pay me for a month, but I was like, I'll continue helping you. You're, you're a pregnant single mom, like my mom. Like, it was just like, I'm not going to bail out on you. Just like, I'm not going to bail out on my mom. Um, but so there's this, these parallels. And then the other client was like a sister. She was like a young yoga teacher and, um, was suicidal. And like, you fully recreated your family. Completely. And so I completed, completely recreated that and was able to experience, um, in, in, in life, what that, those dynamics create. And they, I introduced them to each other and things went south, um, moved, um, cause they didn't have a place to go. Um, said, Hey, you guys should, you should, you should move to Austin. Austin's an amazing place. And I'll say this to everybody. I'd like, I was, you know, singing Austin's praises. It was such a preacher. [Speaker 3] (1:35:16 - 1:35:18) You're a preacher, bro. Preacher. Totally. [Speaker 1] (1:35:20 - 1:47:27) Austin's an amazing place, but I was like, Hey, everybody needs to move to Austin. It's the best place ever telling all my clients that and told these clients that I'm like, Hey, you don't have community there in Austin. Come out here. We'll, I'll introduce you to community. There's so many people here. It's amazing. So they moved their life out to Austin, uh, from New York and, um, ends up getting into a dynamic with the landlord where they, they basically don't have a place to live. And she ended up not having any money. And so I'm like, well, we have an extra room. Come on in. And Devon at the time, you know, we're separated. So she was like, cool. Like another single mom, like kind of help out around the house. Great. Like, okay, I'm, I'm cool with that. Um, up his point, it was all good. Right. Um, and soon enough, like it wasn't good. It wasn't a good move. It was not, not, not a good move at all. It was actually the worst move ever. Um, and, and yeah, um, basically things started to go south, but between her and Devon, there's just tension kind of, and, um, Devon had mentioned to her this whole other dynamic that she didn't know. So filter in on this other dynamic with other woman. And that made her go, oh, like, she was like, I'm so sorry. Like Devon had told me this. I feel like I like violated, like confidentiality. I feel, I'm so sorry. I was like, it's okay. It's all good. It is what it is, you know? Um, but with that said, um, you know, the secret sons buyout, she knew all this information now she knew of this whole other situation with this other woman. Um, and she used it. Um, and I, I quickly fell from, from rescuer savior to, um, perpetrator. She, um, one night we did, um, cause she was complaining about having like, just like insomnia and having these things. And I was using, um, you know, K recreate like recreationally at the time. And I was like, don't do some K. And, um, she was like, yeah, I'm open to it. I'm open to trying anything. Cool. Yeah. And so we ended up doing K together, uh, you know, wait, wait out an amount, a reasonable amount. Wasn't too crazy, um, for a full trip, full journey. And we go on a journey together. We're laying down in my office. Kids are in the other room sleeping. And he knows it's relatively short lived half an hour, an hour, whatever. Um, Devon is like out somewhere. She's going to be home soon. Um, it was, it was all, you know, I told Devon, Hey, we're going to be doing this, this journey. Cool. No worries. Um, and we do it. And on this journey, um, I reach out and I hold her hand. I just intuitively, I just, when we held hands. And after we came out of it, we shared our life stories. She shared her life story with me. I shared my life story with her. And I was like this really, you know, intimate, close moment. There was no romantic feeling, nothing like that at all. Um, and she, um, what she shared in her story was, uh, like a, like a crazy degree of, um, sexual abuse, trauma, violation. They're just like the, the most awful, tragic, intense life story. And I just felt like, wow, like, oh my God, you know, so much compassion, so much like, wow. So glad you're here. And, um, and that was that. Um, and then things started going South with her and Devona. Um, they started getting into conflict. Um, it was just, they're, they're like kind of militant vegans. Um, and Devon is not. And so they're just like, kind of just bumping into each other in different ways. And, and it came, came to head. Oh, you know, prior to that, I also should say, like, I introduced her to another one of my clients. The one other one I moved in, um, moved down to Austin, um, who was like my sister and totally felt like that. And I kind of knew that because she felt like a little sister to me and really wanted to help her, um, and, um, connected them and they, they quickly became friends and, and, and they kind of bonded. So, um, things are going South and she, um, gets into a Devon and Devon is like, don't fucking, um, this is my, who the fuck do you think you are? This is my house. Get the fuck out. Um, and this is a tenuous position. They don't really have anywhere to get out to. Right. And they don't really, you know, have a lot of resources. And so she, um, pulls me aside and is like, um, you're going to need it. You're going to need to pay my way back and give me money and, um, you know, give me living living expenses. And then I'm like, um, that's not like, like, Ooh, wait, like, it's not my responsibility. Like, and at the same time, like, well, like, let me see what I can do. And so I, you know, offered to pay for their fare back and for a month, month of living expenses. Um, and she's like, well, I'm consulting with, uh, with my advocates and people. And I was like, okay, so this is like a messy situation. She ends up stealing our car, um, getting into an accident. Um, and, and, and they flee. I was like, I'm going to call the cops. And she's like, well, before you call the cops, you better watch out because if you call the cops, then I'm going to let them know that you've been endangering my life, my son's life and your children's life and doing drugs. And I was like, oh, and I was like, oh, this is not good. And so I was like, fuck it. I have nothing to lose. Um, I you're lying and I'm going to, and so we called the cops, we put a report in all the things. And so she had to relinquish the car. Um, and so fast forward a couple months, I got reached out to by a woman saying your victims have come forward and they want justice. And I was like, oh my God, what the fuck? No way. This is nuts. And I was like, well, I didn't do anything and they have nothing. So let's go. And so went into a whole mediation, brought in my friend who's a lawyer. And I went into this whole mediation process, which was basically, um, them trying to justify, um, what their, their ask was $200,000, um, for, for their psychological damage that they experienced at my hands and my grooming and my sexual prejudice. She claimed that I had, um, got on top of her and groped her on K and yeah, I'm overdosed her and just, there's a lot of wild claims. And this got, and I was like, uh, I'm like, no, I'm like financially like at the edge right now. I cannot, there's not no way, no way in hell. And also like, no, I can't, I can't, it's just not possible. I wouldn't even do it on principle sake. Even if I had it, I wouldn't do it. Um, and I was like, the truth will prevail. That was my, my sense. The truth will prevail. Let it all fall. Let it all burn. Cancel me. Do your worst. And, and they did it. They, they, they reached out to all the community, sacred sons fit for service. They reached out to all my friends. They were reaching out, badgering all my followers, all the people that were, I was following. They were sending out messages. All my friends were like, Hey, you know, this, this chick like reached out to me saying you're a sexual predator and stuff. And they, they did their best to like gather people to go against me. But at the end of the day, it was just these two women, neither of which I ever touched. Um, except for that one time holding hands and hugs, but there was no, never any sexual energy between us at all. And they were reaching, uh, and she, this woman, um, does cancellations for a living. That's what she did. She do cancellations in a medicine space to hold men accountable who are legit predators who are like raping people. Um, and I had never done anything non-consensual with any woman. Um, but you know, I, I had definitely crossed lines and blurred boundaries and made a lot of mistakes in that regard, um, which I, I've had, I've suffered the consequences of fully. Um, but it was also like that, you know, dumpster fire burning down of all the things, all the identity, um, everything that allowed me to recalibrate and, and, and build from the ground up. And I just realized that I had it all right here after having experienced relationship with, with some amazing women. Um, when Devon and I were separated, I realized it's all right here. She has it all and more. She has it all and more because of the history we have. We have kids together, all the things. Um, and, but also like, I realized that I had been this basically judgmental, um, asshole living in his beliefs, believing that because she wasn't eating meat or because she wanted to drink, you know, drink wine here and there, whatever that like, that there's any reason for us to separate on those grounds that that was, that, that was like this final delusion that I had to shed this bypass that carried, which, which helped me survive. Don't get me wrong. Like it served its purpose. You know, I needed that belief to like, keep me straight in the arrow. Like, right. Just like, Hey, straighten out, just keep going. But basically it led to this massive implosion of my life and this huge cancellation campaign against me and then sacred sons coming out and, and, and, and, and basically taking their side. Um, it was just like this basically roasted, um, in, in all respects. And I was just like, okay. You know, thank you, God. Um, thank you. Because I know that, um, the truth will always prevail and, and I'll get through it. I'll get through it. Cause I know who I am and the people that know me know who I am. And if so, what if, um, millions of people think you're an amazing person or so what, if a millions of people think you're an awful person, it doesn't change who you are and we can't let that change who we are. So yeah, went through a trial by fire and it was actually the best thing ever. Uh, it was actually the best thing ever because I, through that process, I was able to like really reclaim my family. We moved to San Miguel de Allende, um, and started like the simple life, like started living this simple life where people that know me for this thing, like, Oh, you did secret sons and like, want to be, be connected to me for that. So I was just like starting fresh. And like, it was just, it was the best ever. It's like no weight, no projections. I could just be me. And from that place, um, so much magic happened. So much healing. I went through the process of what it takes to, to heal and repair and earn a woman's trust, whose heart I broke. And I'm like looking out and I see her, she just like swims into view and it's like, I, I got, we got, we got a rebirth in, in our union. And I, now I really know what it means to be a husband. Now I know what it really means to be in sacred union. Like, I, I, I would not like now, like I have the healthy boundaries to know, like, no, I would not jeopardize this for the world. And I'm just fucking clear. Whereas before I still had this kind of like this, this ego wound, this like from childhood of like needing to help people, of believing on my belief was like, I had to love like Christ. I had to love like Yeshua. That was how I tried to live is loving everybody equally. And like, it's not fair to my family. It's not fair to, fair to my queen. It's like, like to like love. It's like, no, like no, like no. So yeah, it's been the most massive, massive recalibration. And that's what led me into the work I do now. Really, I'm leading a strong whole group right now with fathers and husbands and helping them repair in their, their marriages and, and regain trust and, and, and learn safety. And it just like such a needed place. And I've been through the fire. I've lost everything that was dear to me and came through richer than ever. So. [Speaker 2] (1:47:28 - 1:47:38) Bro, you've been swimming in a volcano, man. You've been more than through the fire, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Holy crap, dude. You're the walking definition of here for the truth right now, by the way. Wow, man. [Speaker 1] (1:47:38 - 1:48:12) Wow. This is my first podcast in, in, in years. And it's also for that reason. Cause I was like, I want to just lay low. I want to build my life up. I want to like, just like live it. And I don't want to like bring any energy in that would, would. Yeah, there would be contrary or impact that negatively, but yeah, it's time for the truth. It's, it's, it's, it's a good time. I haven't made any public statements. I have it. And I don't intend to, I don't intend to fight anything. You can think what you want of me. You can think I'm a predator. You can think all those things. That's, that's fine. [Speaker 2] (1:48:14 - 1:49:21) No, it'll be nothing but respect from our audience, man. Just for the realness and the way that you showed up, bro, and laid it all on the line. It's just kind of, again, man, it's like, we all have these foundations and there's different levels of ruptures within those foundations, but they're uniquely ours. And if we really embrace them, you know, the way that we're being asked to, then a hundred percent of the time it gets alchemized into treasure, into something incredibly beautiful. And yeah, bro, like you, you've been dealt a very interesting hand. In life, you know, but ultimately like here you are on the other side of that, you know, through the embrace of whatever that hand is. And yeah, man, I, I love the time that I got to spend with you here in San Miguel de Allende and getting to connect with you and connect with your family and connect with Debano. And I have genuine love for all of you. I got, I got the gift of, you know, this house plan sitting in my office, which I'm looking at right now. So thank you for your life and thank you for your journey and thank you for sharing, bro. [Speaker 1] (1:49:22 - 1:49:42) Hey, thank you for listening and giving me a space to share. I really appreciate that. I mean, it makes sense. I didn't plan on going here necessarily, but I hadn't, I'm like, well, here for the truth, geez, do we have time for the truth? Well, two hours is a pretty good chunk of time. And that's like kind of how long it takes to share the journey. Yeah. [Speaker 3] (1:49:43 - 1:50:52) Yeah. It's interesting too, because like what I love about our podcast is, you know, we usually start off with like people telling a bit of their story, you know, it's like, because, you know, the audience listens and they're like, you don't know who's listening and what they're going through and what, what a person has worked through and alchemized and build from let's say pain or suffering or confusion. So, you know, obviously, yeah, we took it most of the time to some degree going deep into this story, but I absolutely loved it, man. I loved how real you are and, and the depth and like your unique experiences. And because I think the reality of the matter is which one of us has whatever that is perfect. We don't, we're human beings. Like you said earlier, we're flawed. And this is the thing too, about social media and people gain a certain following people out there just like want to project like this ideal and everyone, but like, we're all, we're fighting our own battles, whether it's with our children or with ourselves or with addiction or with our families. Like, no, I don't think anyone has it all figured out. And so I think the more we realize we're on this path together as human beings doing our best, you know, I just feel like it takes off a lot of pressure. Also this pressure to be perfect or to do the perfect posts or have the perfect business or to come across a certain way. And I think just a lot of that is bullshit. [Speaker 1] (1:50:53 - 1:51:17) Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's time to do away with, with that illusion and, and just allow ourselves to be like, that's the most liberating thing is just to be, be able to be who we are. But I think that's the, that's the work of our lifetime, right? It's just to become real, to become who we are, regardless of who might reject us or accept us or love us or hate us. It's just to be who we are. [Speaker 3] (1:51:18 - 1:51:30) Yeah. Well said, man. Definitely speaking our language in that, in that regards and accepting ourselves in all its nuance, you know, the light, the dark. I mean, we hold it all. [Speaker 1] (1:51:30 - 1:52:23) We do. We do. And it, you know, in accepting all of it, that allows us to come into deeper relationship with what is. It allows us to, to deepen into intimacy with God and to really cultivate that personal relationship, which I feel like, you know, we're reaching out there. So many people are reaching, right? We're reaching for help. We want this, we want that. But it's like, it really does require us to slow down, to be able to connect with what we really need. Because the soul knows, the soul that we are knows what we need. And it's important to slow down in these, these wild times, these crazy times where everything is just seems to be going so fast. And at least in the digital area realm and in geopolitics and the propaganda. But when you were just go out to nature, it's just, it just is what it is. It's always what it is. [Speaker 3] (1:52:23 - 1:52:48) Yeah. I want to ask you something. Obviously, like we go through life, we have these experiences and, you know, without bypassing, we hopefully come to a place where we can have gratitude for what we've been through, because it's led us to who we are. So when it comes to your father, like, have you come to this place of having gratitude? Oh, yeah. Like who he is and how he's shown up and, and even in his own twisted ways, like maybe some of the lessons that he's. [Speaker 1] (1:52:48 - 1:54:43) Yeah, I love my dad. I love him. You know, he's, he's blessed me just as much as he's cursed me, you could say, you know, and it's all good. It's, it's, it's, it's really the greatest act of love that God had for my soul is he incarnated me into my family. Like, we're all incarnated into the exact family that we're meant to be born into, so that our soul can experience exactly what it is, even if on a human level, we're like, oh my God, that's awful. But it's not. It might be awful for the human, but it's not awful for the soul, because the soul's role here is to expand and deepen into what it is to be love, what it is to be God, right? That's what we're learning. And so I'm so grateful for my dad. And, you know, we don't have a great relationship, but I, I wish him, you know, just because of his capacity, really, and his perspective. But I'm, I, you know, I wish him all the best. I send him love. I call him, I send him emails. But he's just, you know, he's just who he is also. But I learned from one of my early therapists a bit of wisdom. He was a psychoanalytic therapist, and he said it's important to honor the archetype, even as well as, you know, even if you can't, like, honor the personal father, you want to honor the archetypal father. And that might look like still going through the motions of wishing your dad Happy Father's Day, still wishing him Happy Birthday, still sharing to the degree that you feel inclined to without expecting anything in kind. And that really helped me because it helped me experience love that's just in the giving and not needing anything. And I don't need anything from him. I have a beautiful life, and I'm so grateful. And he's part of the reason why I do. [Speaker 2] (1:54:43 - 1:55:22) Yeah. Yeah, man. I want to ask you just one more question, because I think you have a very unique perspective on this now, based on all you've been through. Like, obviously, you've experienced, you know, community and connection and groups becoming toxic to some extent. So, from where you're standing now, what do you think is the recipe for actual healthy community? Because it really seems, even in conscious circles, when people gather around ideology or moralization, like, there's a slippery slope, you know? So, what would you say now is the recipe for a healthy community? [Speaker 1] (1:55:24 - 1:57:45) I think healthy community has to be rooted in connection with nature, like a living, real relationship with nature, first of all. Because when you're in right relationship with nature, and you know what it takes to or at least just honor and respect the fact that, you know, things aren't unlimited, this like kind of unlimited mentality that, like, we're raised in the Western capitalistic framework. It's just like unlimited growth, unlimited everything. But in community, things aren't unlimited. There's not unlimited time. You don't have unlimited energy. And so, it's crucial to have right relationship with nature. And beyond that, in order to expand on that, right relationship with the cycle of birth and death. Because when we have a right relationship with elders, and we are able to honor elders, and we're able to honor the youth and the needs of others, and we're able to meet the needs of others, and we're carrying that responsibility in a healthy way, and we're sharing that responsibility, then I feel like that insulates us from the potential for, like, extractive, egoic, kind of like, you know, power, like the desire for power and the desire to be, you know, desire to rule, which I think it's in a lot of communities, right? There's this, like, kind of hierarchical, kind of posturing, this constant, like, you know, wanting to be the guy or be the man. But when you have elders, and an orientation around birth, and the people that are tending to life, like the mothers, then it's a great counterbalance to the masculine. You know, I think we all have specialized roles that we're going to be the best at, or that we're going to be better at, and so being able to honor those roles and share the responsibility, and so everybody can kind of be in their zone of genius is ideal. So yeah, first thriving community, definitely connection to nature, honoring the cycle of birth and death, and all the points in between, so that we're not just, like, you know, hubristic and fixed in our own perspective, and we're able to really compassionately orient to the needs of the whole. [Speaker 2] (1:57:47 - 1:57:56) Thank you, bro. Any closing message that is present for you now? I mean, maybe particularly, I guess, oriented towards men, potentially? [Speaker 1] (1:58:00 - 1:59:36) Well, God is real. And God is waiting for us all to deepen into a deeper, into more intimate relationship with God, because this is where everything is, this is where we're needed right now more than ever, is people need to have their own direct line to the Creator. And it's accessible for everybody. And sometimes we forget that with, like, kind of the machine of social media and AI and all these kind of exogenous inputs, you know, even in psychedelics, you know, like, you know, don't forget that you can connect with God, so long as you have the sincere desire and consistently longing for connection is what really brings that connection. And so if you feel lost, if you feel alone, if you feel disconnected, if you feel like you're missing something, remember that you're really not. And it's just a feeling, it's a passing feeling, and that your work is to drill down into yourself and to connect to the God within. And if everybody does that, we will have a very different world in a lifetime or two. But it really will take, I think, everybody choosing to cultivate that, their own private, personal connection with the Creator, because that's where everything good comes from. It comes from God. [Speaker 2] (1:59:38 - 1:59:47) Bro, thank you so much, once again, just for being you, being who you are, being here. And for those that, like, do resonate and want to connect, man, how can they get in touch and, I guess, work with you? [Speaker 1] (1:59:48 - 1:59:58) Yeah, oberbastia.com. That's my website. You can reach me there or you can find me on Instagram, oberbastia. And yeah, I would love to connect. [Speaker 2] (1:59:58 - 2:01:24) Amazing, bro. Thank you so much. Everyone else, thank you for listening. And we'll see you next time. Wow, wow, wow. What an incredible story. You never know where it's going to go when you ask that initial question. So, we'd like to start by unpicking a little bit of your hero's journey, the journey that we- And then two hours later, yeah. The journey that we go in that process. But that was amazing. I'm super grateful just to a bear, like I mentioned, for really bringing it all to the spirit of Here For The Truth because I went through my own rites of passage as we all do. And the ultimate craving for me as I found myself in the darkest times was like, I want equilibrium more than anything else. And I really didn't care what it was going to take to get there. And I think at certain points in our lives, we all feel that and we all crave that. And that's what it means to be here for the truth, ultimately. So, thank you once again for joining us. Thanks for listening. Our free seven-day mini course, which people are absolutely loving. This is seven days, less than 10 minutes per day and one action per day to take with you just to kind of start mobilizing on the unconscious and maybe some things you haven't contemplated in a while. It's called the Self-Esteem Reset and you can start for free at selfesteemreset.com.