Alyssa Rafidi & Sophie Fletcher, PhD Married to the Truth

[Speaker 2] (0:00 - 1:38) Welcome to Here for the Truth. My name is Joel Rafiti. I've got my co-host Erasmus with me as always. Our platform is on a mission to inspire as many people as possible to live more authentically, to build true, authentic, healthy self-esteem, to reclaim their power, and to live lives that feel deeply reflective of who they really are as an individual. And it's been such a privilege to record these last 200 episodes and an honor to be on this journey and get to do this work and get to have these conversations. And today is no different. We have a very special episode in store for you guys. For the first time ever, both our wives are joining us for this conversation. It's deep and it's beautiful. We reflect on our journeys, on the authentic growth process, on the evolutionary power of relationships, the importance of self-knowledge, and just building our capacity for truth. And I think you guys are really, really, really going to enjoy this one. If you're into what we do and you want to be deeper into this world, we've launched a free community, which you can join and connect with others and connect with us and get exclusive content. And each month we're hosting a free global community call for everyone connected in our world, but purely through being a member of that free community. So you can head to www.school.com, S-K-O-O-L.com, forward slash Here for the Truth. You'll be asked some basic membership questions, then you'll be in there and we'd love to see you on our next call. So without anything else to be said right now, please enjoy this episode. [Speaker 3] (1:39 - 1:46) You are now listening to the Here for the Truth Podcast, hosted by Joel Rafiti and Yerasimos. [Speaker 2] (1:49 - 1:56) 200 episodes, bro. Can you believe that we are here? What a ride, man. It's crazy, man. [Speaker 1] (1:56 - 2:02) All I can do is think back to episode one when we were a couple of young bucks about what, three and a half years ago. [Speaker 2] (2:02 - 2:29) I actually want to start by trying a little fucking snippet right here. Hey guys, I'm Joel. This is Yerasimos. Welcome to Here for the Truth. Basically, Here for the Truth is a podcast where we explore the truth on all matters. Our intention is to get to the bottom of what it means to live truthfully, to live authentically, and to use our own experiences to discern what truth is. Look at you, bro. A little Jersey gangsta. Yeah, man. Good to be here with you. [Speaker 1] (2:30 - 2:33) Yeah. It's so good to be here, man. I'm so happy we connected. That's wild. [Speaker 2] (2:34 - 2:34) I know. [Speaker 1] (2:36 - 2:45) We have better- So young. It's crazy. I know. We have better mics and better cameras. That's for sure. And we look slightly different. [Speaker 2] (2:45 - 2:47) Do you think we've gotten better looking or? [Speaker 1] (2:48 - 3:19) Oh, for sure. You guys both look better looking. So I think like, ladies, what do you have to say? Yeah, you both like, I mean- Joel put on a little bit of weight. From my perspective, like- It's good. I think you have too. You have too. I feel like you both have grown into yourselves more. Yeah, more mature. Into your like, more manliness as you've been like, in this process of like, stepping more into like, who you are, you know, like you- That looks like Joel in a mirror every morning. [Speaker 2] (3:22 - 3:25) Well, thank you. This is the reason we invite you both on for episodes. [Speaker 1] (3:25 - 3:34) I was wondering why, and here it is. You don't have to tell them how amazing they are for an hour and a half, basically. [Speaker 2] (3:34 - 3:37) About each of us. Should we let the people listening know who our guests are first? [Speaker 1] (3:38 - 3:38) Yes. [Speaker 2] (3:40 - 4:09) As with us today, we have Elisa Rafidi, my wife, who first joined us way back on episode 22. You know, over a couple of years ago now. And we have Dr. Sophie Fletcher, PhD, who- This is your third time on the podcast. You joined us on, I think, episode 5 or something or 3 or something like that. And also episode 140. So we thought, you know, we'd honor our 200th anniversary by having our wives on for this conversation. [Speaker 1] (4:11 - 4:28) To tell you how wonderful you are. Keep it coming, please. Keep it coming. How are you ladies doing? Yeah. Good. I'm feeling good. Hey, you guys, you guys have a lot going on right now. [Speaker 2] (4:29 - 4:31) Yeah, we're- Me and Yerasmus, me and Elisa. [Speaker 1] (4:31 - 4:32) You and Elisa. [Speaker 2] (4:33 - 4:35) I never know when someone says you guys, either of us. [Speaker 1] (4:36 - 4:36) Well. [Speaker 2] (4:39 - 5:31) Look, in the ethos of Here for the Truth, we are tired as all hell right now, you know? And like speaking into the reality of what life is like in Mexico right now, in Playa Del Carmen, in this house, it's been a very, very hard month. It's been extremely uncomfortable. It's so hot. Like, you know, we've got this crazy ant problem in the house. This bathroom, for some reason, just endlessly smells. There's nothing that we can do about it. I've got ripped sheets going on. And, you know, our eldest daughter, Vali, you know, we were training her at night. She's not wearing a nappy anymore. So, you know, up all night, taking her to the bathroom and stuff like that. Naya's going through her own developmental stages. I can only speak for myself. But, you know, right now, yeah, it's a lot for sure. It's a lot. [Speaker 1] (5:33 - 6:08) And you're packing up and, you know. Getting ready to move. And have a new baby in a few months. Yeah. So, you know, I'm just a regular every day, whatever. It's life. It's just life. We're going through the motions, but definitely excited for a change. And we know it's time for a change. So, yeah, all of this is happening. We're super grateful for what's on the other side. Yeah, just nearly there. A few days. So, we're out of here. [Speaker 2] (6:09 - 6:28) Yeah. And that's the thing. Like, there's challenges and there's like, you know, chaos. But at the same time, it feels so right. It feels like it's the only thing that could possibly happening. And we're very clear about where we're headed and, you know, the experiences that we're, you know, likely to have going forward. And there's a lot of excitement there as well. I mean, that's part and parcel of the journey, right? [Speaker 1] (6:29 - 7:28) What are you most excited about for your next destination? The weather change because it is just extremely hot here all the time. And I think just a bit more temperate weather and seasonal changes and cool mornings and cooler nights and evenings. We can just enjoy outside. We can't really do much here unless we're swimming in the pool. So, I think that's the biggest thing. But just to experience the magic of a new city, a new place and so much beauty that surrounds the city, the particular city we're moving to. And I think that's what my life personally calls for at the moment is just that magic and that beauty and to keep exploring and have a new adventure. I know that's what my heart's calling me for, towards. I know that's where I'm going for a reason. So, that's what it is. [Speaker 2] (7:28 - 8:11) I mean, like all things, you know, like it can be so overly romanticized, like leaving your home country, you know, living abroad, digital nomad lifestyle, etc. And again, people see the highlights on Instagram and stuff like that. But like the reality is that since February 2023, we never really felt like we've been in a home where we felt settled, grounded, that we could make a place our own and we could, you know, where the conditions were ripe for us to, you know, fully breathe and fully be ourselves. And for me, I get the inkling that we're going to have that experience now where we're going. But it's a journey. Like it takes... There's steps along the path, you know, especially with a young family. So, for me, that's what it is for sure. [Speaker 1] (8:13 - 11:40) Yeah. And each stage calls for a different... Sorry, Soph. But each stage calls for a different, you know, experience. And we had the beach, Caribbean lifestyle for so long. And it's easier with, you know, kids that can run around and we can swim and all of that. But this next stage, you know, with a new baby on the way, it's calling me to nest more and to create a home and settle down a little bit. And that's, I think, where we're going next. And we've chosen a beautiful house where we're comfortable and has all the comforts that we need, you know, to have the baby at home. And then to just is like simple things like a backyard for our girls to run around on grass. It's just those simple things that we've been called back to. And so, yeah, we're just going with the flow of every stage of our life. And, you know, since we've left Australia, it's been a few years and we haven't needed that until now. But it's a real strong pull now to settle down and nest and be comfortable for the next little while. So, then we'll see where we go next. You're nice. Yeah. I mean, I was just gonna say, you know, obviously, I'm more peripheral in terms of getting a lot of information through Girasimos and then, you know, obviously, our relationships and stuff. But it's like I've just been so. I admire you guys so much for I feel like every step that comes forward. It's so you're so clear about it. And then you get really, really clear about your intention around it. So, it feels like every time we talk, and there's another big change about to happen, like moving from Australia and then moving even from Mazatlan to Playa and then now moving again and reaching the different stages. It feels like you guys have just been really clear on like, OK, this is why this isn't working. And you are. This is why we're moving forward in this way. And even if it's hard or, you know, feels kind of like what on earth is happening, I have to pack up everything and kids and like do the whole thing. It's like you guys are so clear in terms of your values of why something's happening, that that helps you move through it. I don't know. That's just been my I'm curious if that's also in your experience. But just reflecting that back, that's been something that I've really admired about you guys, that even when you're doing these big moves and big things happening, you're so grounded in the values. And I think that's something that everyone could take away of like as you're grounded in these values and what your vision is and why you're doing X, Y, and Z, that can help you infinitely move through the difficulties of making those big decisions and big steps and big upheavals and things like that. Because it's not just sort of like willy nilly. It's not just because it's sort of like, oh, I just don't like it. And we're just going to do this. But then you're kind of like in the midst of it going like, what on earth are we doing? It's like each time it's sort of like very value driven. And so the groundwork of that. And I know that's also, you know, a big piece of Joel and Yanesmos' work in Here for the Truth and Friends of the Truth and Wrath and all of the different programs. It's like really rooted and deeply grounded in the values that you guys both hold so strongly. Thanks, Soph. [Speaker 2] (11:41 - 11:42) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (11:42 - 11:43) That's a good clip right there, bro. [Speaker 2] (11:44 - 12:47) That's it. Thank you. And I appreciate the acknowledgements. But you know, it's becoming like we mentioned like often, like a big part of it is like getting clear on what is no longer working, what you don't want, what is no longer serving. And for us, I think we're just more and more get to a place where like there's in a healthy way, there's less tolerance for if shit's not working, like it can change. And it's okay. It's not the end of the world if it has to shift and if it has to change. And I think a big part of my design as well, you know, with the strong Pluto placements and Scorpio placements are just... And even together, Alistair and I just constantly feels like we're in this big evolutionary process. And yeah, it's really heavy. And it can feel like a big upheaval at times. But always on the other side, it really does feel like we're growing and moving towards something more authentic, more beautiful, more integrated every step of the way, you know. And yeah, you know, I think the external experience we're having is really just, you know, an outer manifestation of what's happening within our relationship as we continue to grow too. [Speaker 1] (12:48 - 14:14) Yeah. It's a testament also to, you know, stepping outside your comfort zone and what does that mean? You know, because how many people sit there and live in la-la land and daydream land and, oh, I'm going to move there. I'm going to go there. And you guys are like, in Australia, obviously, things weren't ideal with a lot of the things happening in the last, you know, four years. You know, having a, whatever, four-year-old and a two-year-old or I forget the exact ages at that time. And then like, yeah, we're going to move across the entire country with like a bunch of suitcases and then figure it out. Go to a place we've never been before. I mean, the country, yes, but the place, no. And yeah, like Sophie said, it's like, what does that do to you as an individual? How does that challenge you? How do you build self-esteem? You know, how do you build deeper connection? And how does these big changes cause a lot of shit to bubble up from the unconscious that you need to face? Because when you're just kind of living your life, you know, in the place you're living, comfortable, like sometimes things can just remain stagnant. Now, I'm not saying everything has to always be turmoil, but like when you make a big change, you move somewhere new, like it's going to challenge you guys. It's going to challenge what it is like to be parents, having to raise kids in a new environment and navigate that. And that just, that could only serve if you have a mindset of growth, not a fixed mindset, but a growth mindset that could only serve for you to grow as individuals, as a couple and as a family. [Speaker 2] (14:16 - 14:54) Yeah, man, I completely agree with you. And I think that's a great point you made. And a great correlation is that when there is like external and circumstantial stagnancy, very often that can be a reflection of what's not being addressed within deeper dynamics, whether it's in relationships or with children or, you know, indirect partnership or whatever it might be. That's not always the case. Of course, you can go through deep growth processes and have a steady environment, you know, absolutely. But I think for the herd or for the masses, as we often, you know, refer to in a certain way, there's a level of complacency, which is reflective of the lack of inner growth that's taking place. [Speaker 1] (14:54 - 17:15) Oh, yeah, for sure. I'm not saying that, like, you all have to move. Anyone listening to this has to move every six months just so you can experience growth. They're a completely new country too. You're not like, you have to move to a place where it speaks a different language and, you know, with a different culture. But it's just a highlight of like, you know, where in your life can you challenge yourself? Where in your life are you not having a certain conversations that need to be had? You know, a lot of the things that Joel and I talk about in this podcast, like, what is that thing that's going to maybe stir the pot a little bit, make things uncomfortable to force you to tap into different aspects of yourself, you know, so. Yeah. And I think it's okay. I mean, as we're saying, we don't have to move across country or move to a completely different continent in order to have that happen. But where can you still find those challenges in your life? Like, if you are, you know, staying grounded in one place, where are the challenges? Or where are you still stepping up? Or where are you still looking for, like, how you can show up more consciously with more awareness through your life? Because I feel like, you know, Yerasmo and I have been now in this house coming up on four years. And I don't think either of us understood what we were getting into. To the extent, you know, when we got this place coming from a condo with zero outdoor space and being two basically city people with like, not a lot of maintenance experience. And then being like, okay, shit, like a tree falls. What do we do? We actually, we have to do that. We have to, like, figure these things out. Or, you know, Yerasmo is being like, wheelbarrowing load after load after load of wood chips into making compost that he's never done before. And, you know, I just think- And pipes bursting that you don't know about because the companies don't tell you that they're bursting. And then you just see your water bill that's $3,000 and you're like, okay, where's the leak? Let me just go dig 10 feet underground and find a fucking pipe that's just disconnected and shooting water deep into the earth. Yay. [Speaker 2] (17:15 - 17:37) Yeah, well, that's one of the things I was going to say. It's like, yeah, you've been in the same house for four years. And, you know, we've had the honor of visiting you guys the last couple years. But, you know, there's a lot of changes that have taken place within that environment and within that dynamic. There's consistent challenges challenging you, challenging your comfort zone. You know, it's not like you just become a complacent in what's there. [Speaker 1] (17:39 - 18:48) I think it probably would have gotten that way if we had stayed in where we lived previously to this. I feel like there was definitely that. Like, okay, we've reached our, like, expansion within this place, within this structure. We're using every single inch of it that we can. But I think we both needed, you know, even though it's only 30 minutes away, it feels like we moved, you know, to a completely different place or a different experience. And we keep joking that it's only, like, now that we're, like, it's only been in the past few months that we've gotten stuff up on the walls. Because it feels like it took us so long just to kind of, like, orient to, like, land here even minorly. Especially, like, I think focusing way more on, like, the outside and getting the land and getting, like, more in tune with that and getting that more sorted. Now it's sort of like, okay, now we can kind of home a little bit. Now we can kind of, like, nest a little bit into, like, the actual structure. Yeah. Just the building and stuff. But yeah, it's been great having you guys here a couple of times. [Speaker 2] (18:49 - 19:46) Oh, we love it. We love visiting you guys, you know. Especially, like, being quite isolated at times, you know, where we have been. A big part of the drive for us to move was to be closer to a more aligned community. And obviously, you know, you guys are the tip of the iceberg for us when it comes to that. But I mean, being in Australia, would we ever have gone to Music in Sky like we did this year and have met the community that we met and have had the experiences that we had? And in the back of my mind when I was leaving Australia, it's like, there's something deeper within me where there's more opportunity for the larger scale picture of what I see for our life and our potential being on this side. And, you know, having had the experiences and, like, seriously, we did this podcast for nearly two years without having met in person. And, like, I'm not going to lie, there's a part of me that's like, maybe we'll never meet, you know. It's especially with the dynamics that were happening at the time. [Speaker 1] (19:46 - 20:06) Yeah, when that was going on those first couple of years, like, I'm like, I don't know if I'm going back to Australia because everyone knew what was going on in Australia, like 2020, 2021, 2022, like, you know, trying to get in there. And yeah, I definitely had that thought often. I was like, I guess we're just going to be squares on the screen for each other for the rest of our lives. [Speaker 2] (20:06 - 20:52) Yeah, but I mean, even just the level of consistency, like, you know, I played a snippet from episode one, like, even back then thinking that with the consistency, if we just keep doing these things, that we would have the opportunity to have these freaking incredible experiences, you know. And it's like, back then, you don't have the foresight of what's possible. But, you know, life gives you opportunities, life sends you, you know, relationships and synchronicities and knowing yourself on a deeper level, you know, like coming into human design and other esoteric systems that allows you to know yourself and honor yourself, like things bloom in the most profound and beautiful ways, which, you know, can never be expected or anticipated from a limited perspective when we first start the adventure. [Speaker 1] (20:52 - 26:07) Yeah, also too, like going back to before, like where we lived, you know, we had a very incubated life at that time, you know, like Sophie was doing her PhD, I was really focused on, you know, my inner work and seeing clients and like, I didn't really have a big social network here in LA, it was very different for me because in New York City, that was my entire world, like different social networks and different types of communities. And coming out to LA, there was definitely like lots of different dark nights of the soul that I've spoken about, but for those like last previous, just moving those like four or five years, it was very intimate. And I kept feeling this calling in Sophie as well, like, all right, I think the next stage is like expanding and building a greater community. And I wouldn't say it's the main reason we moved, but one of the reasons we moved to a place that had more space is that we wanted to, you know, plant some roots, but also be a hub for community. It's something that I had always talked about. So we talked about like, we want to host gatherings. And of course, it happened at the perfect time, the world went kind of insane. Many of us were treated as second-class citizens in California and couldn't go out to eat, couldn't go out to do things because we decided to make a personal medical decision. And so, you know, as I've mentioned before, we started hosting gatherings in 2021 and bringing people together. And again, even then, like when it was like May 2021, I couldn't have thought like three years later how things would be, you know, and what community we've built. And then all the webs that have built just from the people that met in our place, you know, and it's kind of wild, you know, not to mention everything that's grown from what we've created. Like, it just kind of blows my mind to think of the relate, because we decided to host, to create a platform talking about, I think, things that are really important. And then being able to connect with other thought leaders and other people challenging like established norms around the world and not just build like relationships like, oh, you're on our podcast, like friendships and deep meaningful connections and mutual respect. And then like just seeing how that's growing and evolving, like, again, another testament to, hey, being clear in what you value, speaking your truth, being consistent, creating, and just seeing what happens. Like I didn't, like you said, when we met, we sat down in that little clip, I had no idea where the four of us would be sitting here right now, having gone through what we've gone through, the relationships that we've built, no way, you couldn't, it's like, I couldn't even thought of, think of it, it's like the whole truth is stranger than fiction saying, like I just, and it's better than I could have imagined, I think, if you asked me then, oh, what's the ideal four years from now? I wouldn't have been able to create something or tell you something as beautiful and rich and fulfilling as what we're experiencing now. I think that's a big piece of like, I mean, again, I'm gonna say this and you guys can disagree or agree, but I feel like all four of us hold, pushing ourselves, growth, keeping that as like the main value, right? Looking at things that mean like, is this going to grow me, is this not? Is this going to be something that stretches me within my capacity and keeps me going or not? And that kind of as the compass, like I remember a friend of mine as we were graduating college and we kind of all are in that place of like, oh my God, what are we gonna do? Life and blah, blah, blah. And now we have to like figure things out on our own. And I remember this conversation and she just was like, I think the whole point is that as we're ready for things, like the next step comes forward. And then within us, it's just whether or not we have the courage to take it. And I feel like all four of us take that next step, look at it and like gather that courage, even if it hadn't been there a second before or three, like five seconds before that. Like we kind of all dig into that as our main value, which I think also really connects all of us and keeps it going, because it is that. And we even realize that like the friendships and the community that was built and things like that. It's like when we get together, we're not just talking about like random frivolous, whatever stuff. Like it's coming from a deep grounded value system that we all hold. And so it's kind of like that's the groundwork for the friendship or the community or coming together in whatever way that we are with other individuals, rather than like one of our jokes is, you know, when you're little, it's like, oh, you like the color purple, too? We should be best friends forever. And there's people who do like our best friends forever based on the fact that they both like purple when they were like five. But I feel like I feel at least for me, like I feel like the relationships that have been built, especially within the past four years, are like they're just coming from a different place. [Speaker 2] (26:08 - 26:08) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (26:08 - 26:26) Because the values, the groundwork, the baseline is already there at a deep level, at a core place rather than just sort of like, oh, we like the same music or we like the same food or like, let's do these other things. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (26:26 - 28:34) Yeah. I hear you. I think it's one, valuing the fact that you live, the fact that you exist and what that really means and valuing what's possible, you know, more than valuing what is just known and familiar, even though, you know, it's comfortable. You can sometimes be stagnant. I think that's a big part of it, you know. It's just valuing potential. And I think, you know, what I love about this process with what we've built and here for truth and just, you know, this core here for the truth message is that as we've grown this business or this creative venture and this podcast and this vessel, it's been such a major catalyst for our own personal growth journeys as well. And like a big part of our work is like, you know, teaching how to develop healthy self-esteem. And like the core of that is just trusting life, you know, trusting what's possible, trusting that the best is yet to come. And like throughout this process, as this platform has grown and as we've taught this work, like our self-esteem has been reinforced as a result of us doing this and getting the feedback from the divine, from universe, from life saying like, yeah, this is the way. Because the opportunities keep opening up. It's not like we're running into dead ends or dead walls and there's signs saying, uh-uh, don't go this way anymore. And I think that's at the core of it, you know. What we want others to experience more than anything else is just a life that feels amazing to you. A life well-lived. And that doesn't mean that there's going to be no challenges or no bumps in the road or no hardships. But what the thing is that really makes life feel amazing is that deeper in the knowing that whatever's happening on a surface level, I realize that it's actually for the best. And I know that I'm growing in a certain direction. It's going to lead me towards something else. And it's just like that can't end. Even when you think about, you know, the finite human experience that something deeper within me is like that. It can't end. Like we're always growing on a deeper level. And that's what excites me. And I think that's going to go on beyond my 80-odd years on this earth as well. [Speaker 1] (28:36 - 28:39) Do you think you've always had that? Like, did you grow up with that? [Speaker 2] (28:42 - 29:07) Um, I feel as though deep within me, I have always had a deeper aspect of me that just trusts life, trusts God, trusts the divine. And while at times I might not have always been as presence, or I might not have been able to articulate it in a certain way. Yeah, you know, I think so, for sure. You? [Speaker 1] (29:10 - 30:00) For me, definitely not. I mean, you guys know my story. Listen to whatever episode I talk about. No, that's been more new for me just within the past, you know, what, 12, 13, no, like 15 years at this point. That was a big shift for me in my mid-20s of like, oh, I might – there's – like you could actually enjoy being alive. That just was not part of my framework. Pretty well, though. I think someone meeting you now would not think that what you grappled with, like from age four till mid-20s, you know, which is a testament to, again, what you talked about, like the desire to keep learning and growing and expanding and dealing with your shit. [Speaker 2] (30:00 - 30:17) And it's proof of what's possible despite how dark some people's experiences might be at certain times in their life. You know, like in the depths of that darkest – of that darkness for you, you know, would you have imagined that you'd, you know, have this level of trust for life at this point? [Speaker 1] (30:18 - 30:26) No, I mean, I literally – it wasn't – I mean, all I thought about was that I didn't want to be here. [Speaker 3] (30:27 - 30:27) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (30:29 - 30:31) So, the – sorry, I'm getting emotional. [Speaker 2] (30:31 - 30:32) It's okay. [Speaker 1] (30:32 - 32:26) The idea that I could actually enjoy this and be planning a future still even, you know, up to mid-20s just felt like I'm just trying to figure out how to not be here without having to do it myself because of my beliefs around karma and all that stuff where I was like, okay, well, it's not an option for me to do it and yet I wanted it so badly. So, the idea of thinking about like, oh, I could actually look forward to what's going to happen or what's coming or what life could be just wasn't – it didn't occur to me. It didn't make sense when people talked about like looking forward to those kinds of things. But it's very different now, right? I mean, I'm really looking forward to what happens because I have experienced such just profound beauty and joy and pleasure and awe in the past, you know, whatever, how many ever years, 15-ish years. So, I feel like I have enough data now where I'm like, oh, life can actually be pretty freaking cool. I mean, if I was here, I wouldn't have gotten to meet you guys. That would have sucked. I really like knowing you guys. I mean, yes, 10 years were the best – have been the best, of course. Yes, of course, ever since meeting you, that's about 10 years ago. That's when life shifted. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (32:26 - 32:33) Yeah. I'm curious to hear what your feeling is this, Alyssa, and I guess your personal experience around this topic too. [Speaker 1] (32:34 - 36:31) Well, I mean, I'm emotional watching Sophie because I suppose my story is very similar in my own, you know, unique way. There are differences, but mine's more of like not being capable of all the things that made me me, just being wrong in the world. And so, always, you know, being blamed for this and that I'm not good enough and then I won't ever be capable of having that life. And I suppose when I started to love myself and do the individual work and really integrate all of the parts of myself that were disowned and not loved and told was not – were not lovable, that's when it started to really open up for me. And it's when I took charge of my own life and stopped listening to all of the people that were like, you know, you can't do this. You're not worthy of this. You're not good enough. And like I look at my life now and obviously moving overseas, these last few years have just propelled me and accelerated the process. I feel it was all necessary. Every single part of it, all of the heartache, all of the grief, all of the pain to know myself right now and to be where I am right now. I can never regret one single thing that has happened. All the people that I've known that told me that I couldn't. It was just about making decisions for myself where I took back my power and I realized that's not who I am. That's not actually who you've told me my whole life who I am is not who I am. And now I'm going to spend the time discovering who I am and making decisions that align for me and being bold and being brave. And just loving myself completely through it, pushing the boundaries. It's just like, I can't explain where I am now, where I've come from. I'm so proud of myself because I did it. I did it. I was my own hero throughout it all. I've always had my back and that's what I found. And I love life. I'm so excited. I can't even imagine the potential that is waiting for me and my children and to show my children that and then to know myself in this way and then be able to give my children the same opportunities just to be themselves and to know themselves from the beginning of their life is just like, I think such a powerful and beautiful thing that a mother and a father can give their children. And I think on an individual level, that's why what Joel and I's values are, why we've been so strong throughout so much is because we know what we want on an individual level. We're really, really clear. And then it makes us stronger together as our family, as our family unit. So that's what I feel. I am in love with life. I'm excited. I know what I'm capable of. And none of that could have been possible without the last 33 years. And then just being propelled into this change and uplifting our whole lives and it rattled every single thing, every single shadow, every single part of me that I thought I knew. I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful for these gifts. I'm so grateful for this universe and this past and to know God and to know myself on this level now, you know, it was so worth it. So, so worth it. [Speaker 2] (36:33 - 37:30) Thank you. Thanks for sharing, baby. Yeah. One thing I want to highlight and I guess as well is like, I know that for you, discovering yourself as a manifester was a huge part of your journey, especially in moving out of, I guess, a more dominant people pleaser part and dynamic. I think you having that realization and really understanding what that means and owning that and stepping into that was a major catalyst for you. I think that's a testament to the power of human design. And also anyone that meets you and knows you now like feels your impact, right? Fear feels the initiatory huge energy which you have when you enter a room and when you enter a conversation, whatever it might be. So, can you speak into like that for you like in understanding yourself as a manifester and now that has kind of impacted your life? [Speaker 1] (37:31 - 42:54) Well, I think all of the things that make me a manifester and they're beautiful things are things that I had been told to disown or to not, you know, I'm too bold, I'm too this, don't use your voice, don't be different to me, you know, and some people don't even know what the manifester energy brings to them. They just know that they're triggered or that they're... And so, it shines a lot of light on people and even if they're not ready, you know. And so, I don't think, you know, knowing that as a child, you don't know that as a child and unless you have parents who do understand you in that way, you know, it's really, really difficult to discover who you are and to use your gifts to the best of your ability. And so, I think that now discovering human design and having friends that, you know, understand human design, I can feel comfortable as I dismantle all the bullshit and really step into my power. You know, I do have an impact. I'm here to do things a different way and to blaze a new trail. I'm here to discover and investigate and then show people the way. And when I've embraced that, that's when everything opened up for me. I've been able to be bold and brave and stand in my power without, you know, unapologetically just being myself and it's a choice. You know, it's been a choice to be able to say no to people, to be able to say no to things that don't feel right, to say goodbye to relationships that didn't really nurture and see me on that deep level. And so, yeah, it's just knowing I'm a manifester and how I work in the world and how I can show up for other people and blaze a new trail has been just like incredible, incredible to me. And then how I relate to people is different and become more accepting of myself in, you know, my energy, how my intuition works, how I can, you know, discern my gut instinct from what's good for me and what's not. It's just, yeah, it's a powerful, powerful tool that I'm so grateful for, human design. Yeah. Thank you for sharing all that. You know, it immediately made me think of the, I think it's a Ralph Waldo Emerson quote, but like to be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. And this is where we have tools like human design or, you know, whatever, cards, astrology, numerology, you know, these are esoteric wisdom and knowledge and tools that we can use to kind of check against, you know? It's not about creating anything like as dogma, you know what I mean? It's not about like, oh, I read a book, human design, this is my life. It's like, no, you're an individual, you have your own ability to think and feel and you come across this information and this knowledge and you rub up against it and you go, wow, this lands, this resonates on a deep level. And like, I don't need to play the compare and contrast game. These things that my mom and my dad and my primary caretakers and my friends and my teachers that have been telling me, they don't land. They don't resonate with what my personal experience of being me is and looking at the world and taking things in. No, like I'm going to own myself more. So yeah, sure, people can sit there and like make fun of a lot of this more esoteric stuff, but the proof is in the freaking pudding, even just hearing you talk right now. And I can only speak for myself. You know, when I first got my first astrology reading, it blew my mind. When I first got exposed to the cards, I was like, aha. I mean, it's aha moment after aha moment that just kind of builds this part of you. That's like, fuck off. Like, I know who I am. Like, you can't mess with me. You can't throw me off my center. Like, I'm going to do what I'm going to do. Now, it's not about coming from this rebellious part and like and being a dickhead, but it's about truly solidly standing in yourself on two feet and go, I've been given this gift of life. OK, you're not me. I'm me. I know me. I know what I'm about. I know what I'm feeling. I know what I'm imagining. And then living from that place, again, like you said before, unapologetically, like, and if you can't handle me being me, again, to imagine to measure like we want to have respect and honor with one another. We don't just want to go around with the proverbial middle finger 24 seven. But like then like no one can take that from you. People can troll you online. People can say things, but you're solid in who you are and you're like, that's cool. I'm living my life. I'm following my bliss. I'm living with joy. I'm building healthy, conscious relationships. I'm creating a beautiful family. Whatever that is, you know it so no one can mess with you if you aren't sure of who you are, if you've been living based on other people's projections, like you're just not standing on solid ground and you're much you're you're you're able to be pushed over that much more easily. [Speaker 2] (42:55 - 46:29) Yeah. Beautifully said, man. And another, you know, quote, which just ties this in, you know, Jung, the world will ask you who you are. And if you don't know, the world will tell you. And I think this is just so true for so many people is that we come into this world and so much is conditioned onto us and conditioned out of us. And for most of us, we just live in this wishy-washy states where we don't really know what's happening in our internal world or how we're really designed to operate on a deeper level. And so, we just believe anyone that would say anything about us or to us or to direct our life, you know. And we just build up this program of outsourcing our decision-making and outsourcing our life path over and over and over again because there's just this internal wishy-washiness, you know, like sand moving along the beach. And it's not solid. And for me, like a key against will life well live, you know, has to have a deep integration of knowing oneself within, you know. And I think, again, know thyself is how Yerasmus and I started this conversation 199 episodes ago. And it's just becoming more and more, you know, powerful and relevant as it continues to go on. And it doesn't end. It's not like, oh, you come into this knowledge, you get a human designer, you get an astrologer, you get whatever. I know myself. No, like you mentioned, this is experiential. This is about taking this knowledge and then applying it in the real world and rubbing up against it and testing it and getting that feedback and then integrating it and it goes on and on and on and on. And, you know, self-esteem is something that's reciprocal. It's something that grows. And that's, you know, it's the same as your internal power is just your self-esteem. And as you get this feedback, as you see your life change in the most beautiful and profound ways, as you see your relationships become more enhanced, more authentic, you see greater opportunities come your way, your trust in life and God and the divine becomes even deeper. You see possibilities where there weren't possibilities before. You see dreams for yourself which you never could have dreamed of from a place of a lack of self-knowledge and a lack of healthy self-esteem. And it's like, damn, the mountain that seemed like Everest a second ago, you know, seems more like a molehill at this point in time. Well said. Like the best is still yet to come, you know. It's like, and I just know that deep within my bones. I just see and I know how much is coming, how much is possible. And it's like, there is no roof. There is no limit on it whatsoever. And that's just what excites me. It doesn't matter what's happening right now. Not having that within is just, you know, that's the biggest gift to me. And it's in your hands. And everyone listening, it's in your hands. It's up to you. And each step of the way, it's uncomfortable. Breaking conditioning hurts. It's painful. Shifting ingrained relationship dynamics with partners, with family, with whatever. It's scary, right? But real change is never going to come in the place which you've always been. It requires discomfort. And the people who grow the most in this life and in this world are those who have built their tolerance for this, quote unquote, discomfort. And ultimately, they get to a point where it's like it's embraced. Okay, you know, here it comes. And you recognize that it goes hand in hand with this evolutionary process. And it's on and on and on and on and on. [Speaker 1] (46:31 - 49:03) Yeah, it's not about wanting the external world to get easier. Like, things aren't really going to get easier. It's just how do you navigate them? How do you deal with challenges in life? You know, like, I can just think back personally for me, like moving to this new property and like issues happening. Like, oh my god, I'd get triggered in these ways that just like, I have to check myself. Like, dude, why are you getting so triggered? Why is this so hard for you? It's like, well, I never had this experience before. Like, that's the thing. It's like when you put yourself in new experiences, then you get that feedback and you go, oh, well, I don't want it. This is not how I want to be. This is not what I want my inner life to be like. And so, like, what do I need to do to deal with this? Now, a lot of times, it'll maybe shift over time. The more you experience something, there's just an organic flow to it. But you have to, there has to be some level of introspection, you know, where you realize how you're behaving, you realize how you're reacting and you go, okay, this isn't sustainable in regards to the person that I want to be. Yeah. But I think there is that, you know, I suppose as you were saying, like the, how you're going to orient yourself to these challenges or these discomforts. Because I think there's also that part of, like, for me, part of my stuff was like, I just got comfortable with discomfort, but in a complacency way. And like, oh, this is just like a resignation of like, this is just life. Life just sucks. It just, it's painful. It's not to say that I didn't have great experiences even, you know, when I was depressed and stuff. But it's like, you just kind of get comfortable with like, I don't want to be here. Okay. But it, I will say like, I feel like I had like the drive to change it the whole time, but I just like, I just felt like I kept like going round and round in circles of like, not figuring, not, you know, quote unquote, figuring it out or like shifting it in any kind of like real meaningful bit. I would do these, you know, retreats and workshops and like things and have like these experiences for like a week, but it wasn't sustainable because my system couldn't hold it yet. Like, I didn't have the capacity for it. I didn't have the framework for it. I didn't have the like, the grounding that that was possible for like a life experience. And so it was just this like, I felt like always being in discomfort, but it was like a complacency with the discomfort. [Speaker 2] (49:03 - 49:25) Do you think there's a difference between like the discomfort that, you know, the evolutionary discomfort and perhaps the discomfort of, you know, I don't want to say an inauthentic life because I don't think that's what it might've been, but, you know, the discomfort of like, of a lack of self-knowledge or a lack of, you know, moving forward potentially. [Speaker 1] (49:26 - 49:32) Yeah. And I don't know if it's a difference in the discomfort or difference in the orientation to the discomfort. [Speaker 2] (49:32 - 49:35) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the level of, it's the consciousness. [Speaker 1] (49:36 - 49:39) The consciousness of like, how am I going to relate to this? [Speaker 2] (49:39 - 49:39) Yes. [Speaker 1] (49:39 - 50:50) Oh, this is something to work through and to actually like, quote unquote, overcome or to transmute in some way, to integrate in some way versus like the, oh, this is just life. And I'll go do these things to like have a different experience for this very short period of time that I'm allowed to have in this incubated experience. But it's, yeah, I feel like it was more of the, like, how I was approaching of like, this is just life. And I do these things just to make it through. Yeah. Like I'm doing these retreats and I'm doing these workshops and I'm constantly looking for the next like healer or the next, you know, thing just to help me get through, like just to help me survive versus like, oh, this is for me. This is for my growth. Instead of the victim. Right. I think I was just so much more in the victim rather than the like, oh, this is something I can utilize this pain or this sadness or this grieving or this whatever darkness within me. Like I can actually use this. I can actually feel this. I can actually go into this. [Speaker 3] (50:51 - 50:51) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (50:51 - 50:55) And that's how, you know, it's the whole thing of like the cave, you know. [Speaker 2] (50:55 - 50:57) The fear to enter. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (50:57 - 51:00) Fear to enter is our greatest gift. [Speaker 2] (51:00 - 51:01) Holds the treasure you seek. [Speaker 1] (51:02 - 51:38) Right. Instead of me like, oh, there's the cave. Like I feel it. It's so deep and it's so scary. But I'm just going to do all these things around it to try to like smooth it over or put like a boulder across that. I don't have to deal with it rather than like, oh, I actually like have to go into this cave and it's going to suck. You know, it's going to it's going to be really painful. It's going to be even more painful than me dancing around it. And yet on the other side is life. So, like, you know, you get to have a choice in it, but it is that it is that switch in orientation. [Speaker 2] (51:40 - 51:44) Yeah. I mean, the victim doesn't trust life, obviously. Right. [Speaker 1] (51:46 - 53:00) And I think that's an important part. Another thing that I realized along the way is that we are infinitely supported and we are infinitely guided. And you're right, Sophie, like life wants us to know ourselves. We're here to know ourselves and life wants to see itself through us and to know deep love. And, you know, it is for us that the opportunities for growth are handed to us. We just have to take it by the hand and embrace it. But to know a deep love from the universe, from God, from the force that created us, that is all within us as well. And I think that to know and be deeply rooted in this support system of, you know, infinite possibility is a super important lesson that has allowed me to continue walking forward and not to be so afraid. And that's available to all of us as well. You know, the infinite, beautiful, unconditional love and support that is holding us. [Speaker 3] (53:00 - 53:01) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (53:01 - 53:13) I think that's been really profound to me. Not only the love I have shown myself, but the love I felt from, yeah, well, I call it God. [Speaker 2] (53:15 - 54:01) Yeah. And I think remaining connected to that, even when it seemed like everything is breaking apart, even when all the- That trust and that faith in that. Yeah. Even when the conditioning, the fear, the scarcity, what's going to happen tomorrow, how am I going to get through, how am I going to survive, you know? But like, even for myself, each time I've had that experience and reached that threshold, like, I'm still here, right? We're still on this journey. We're still growing. And that's the thing. That's what it takes, you know? It's like having to feel that, holy shit, everything is breaking apart. Holy shit. You know, this is the end. And then realizing again and again and again that it never really is. And, you know, I think if you're conscious and continue to choose to grow in consciousness, then it keeps going. [Speaker 1] (54:02 - 55:25) And that's where self-esteem is built also, is going through those things and coming out the other side. Like, you're going to reach the other side, you know? You just have to be brave and move forward in courage. And that has built self-esteem in myself. It's like, well, nothing can touch me. That's how I feel. And it's not from like a really – like it's from a grounded place. I'm rooted in my support system and in myself and in trust and faith for myself above all that I am capable to handle life. And I can move through this. And I can hold this. And, you know, when you come out the other side, it's like this incredible pride that you can't get from anywhere else. You know, that's something you give yourself. And it's by doing hard things and being brave, being courageous. And that's been so important to me. It's like, nothing can touch me. I've got this. And my trust is in myself solely. I'm not outsourcing that. I'm not outsourcing that power. It's me. Yeah. And I think that's – yeah, that's like deep love, deep self-love. And yeah, I think that's really beautiful. [Speaker 2] (55:26 - 55:36) Yeah. It's the story of Neo, the Matrix. Nothing can touch him, you know? But it's true, discovering his own power, you know, recognizing who he really is and legit, nothing can touch him. [Speaker 1] (55:37 - 57:27) Yeah. And this is where I think you talk about self-love. Obviously, Sophie, you know, your main area of work is in the nervous system. It's like, you know, we have to be able to feel discomfort. We have to be able to feel pain. We have to allow ourselves to go through this process. But like we say over and over again, our world is filled with things that want to keep us from going through this organic, natural process to some degree. Oh, a relationship just ended. I'm just going to smoke weed every single day, you know? I'm not allowing myself to feel the pain of that. You know, I lost my job or life isn't going super well. Now, I get it. People have our crutches, you know, at certain points in our lives and I'm not discounting that like there's a time and a place sometimes and, you know, people in some situations are doing the best they can. And like the saying goes, the only way out is through. It's like it's imperative to feel discomfort, to cry, to be sad, to like to build capacity, to sit with that. And again, the nervous system where it comes into place here, like do people even understand like their bodies? You know, we're born into this world. We have this thing, I'm moving my hands around, you know, I touch myself. Like do people understand how they even function? You know, are we taught this as kids? You know, in elementary school, in, you know, junior high school, are we taught about the physiology of a nervous system? Obviously, we have our issues with school, but like everything we talk about on our podcast, on our platform, whether it's nervous system work, whether it's Germany medicine, human beings have no fucking idea what this thing is that they're experiencing life in. Like just think about that. Most human beings have no understanding. [Speaker 2] (57:28 - 57:28) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (57:28 - 57:32) Of this vessel that they live in and experience life in. [Speaker 2] (57:32 - 58:01) Yeah. And if we agree that pain is the primary catalyst for change and most people on this planet can't properly experience the pain that's going on, then this is why we don't see people really change. This is why we don't really see real growth, you know, and like we talk about all the conspiracies and, you know, I mean, that's the biggest thing, right? Is like, are you feeling reality for real? Yeah, exactly. [Speaker 1] (58:01 - 58:34) I mean, I think the vast majority of people, I think one of the main things that society is dealing with is dissociation and that freeze response within our nervous system where it's just numbed out. It's just not really here. It's not really experiencing these things. And so, you're not getting the signals. You're not getting the natural signal from your system of like to change, to do something different, to experience something. It's just like it's nothing. There's just a numbness there. [Speaker 2] (58:36 - 58:42) How can you know truth? How can you know truth if you can't feel what's happening inside? [Speaker 1] (58:42 - 1:00:15) Well, don't worry about it. All you have to do is know and believe that you're limitless and eternal and everything goes away and you don't need to deal with any of this stuff. See, if I had continued to believe that I would still be in exactly the same place I was from three years old to my mid-twenties, because that was my teaching. That was the mindset that all the work that I was doing was. I just have to believe it differently. And then it spirals into like, so something's so fundamentally wrong with me that I can't even do this thing that's supposed to be the easiest thing in the world is just believe it. Just know it. What's wrong with me that I can't just change my mindset and everything's fine? Because my body was in so much fucking pain. I was so dissociated. I was so numbed out that I couldn't tap into that at all. The mindset work was just more dissociation. It was just creating more distance between those signals that I should have been getting or changes that I should have been making. They just weren't registering within my consciousness of like, I needed to get into my body. I needed to feel this stuff. I needed to actually experience this stuff rather than just continue to change my mindset. Just make more affirmations. Just say more things to myself. What is the problem? I could say affirmations for hours upon hours. Be positive. Everything. [Speaker 3] (1:00:15 - 1:00:15) Just be positive. [Speaker 1] (1:00:17 - 1:03:23) Just be positive. What's wrong with you? It was just like you're just getting to this spiral. It makes it worse and worse or it did for me. It made it worse and worse and worse. But I think there's also this flip side that I've been trying to focus on now too, especially in my work with clients and even in RAPT and even in the Friends of the Truth nervous system calls is we talk a lot in nervous system work around this window of tolerance and capacity to be with discomfort or be with the more painful aspects and things like that. And at the same time, what I'm shifting into more and trying to emphasize more is we also have a capacity and a window of tolerance for positive. And my window of tolerance for positive just didn't – I mean, it was like not even a millimeter. It just didn't exist. So, any positive experience was too overwhelming. It was too stimulating. I didn't know how to hold it. I didn't know how to ground it. I didn't know how to integrate it into my sense of myself or world understanding yet. And so, I think a lot of this work needs to be – and I know somatic experiencing does actually put emphasis on this a lot of ways. But it's like landing the new way for me of like that's so much of the work. That's so much of the work of like can you even feel a modicum of what are the somatic sensations for you that signal safety or signal trust or signal pleasure or signal anything positive? And can you stay with that for a second, for two seconds, for three seconds, for four seconds? What is that like to just sit with that and what comes up to kind of like clamp it down? Because so many of us, I think, do get really oriented to danger, to threat, to what do I need to do to stay safe? What do I need to do? Focus on the drama. Focus on what's wrong. Focus on what I have to fix. And there's parts that we have to do that. We have to do that to certain extents. But it needs to be counterbalanced with this also expanding that capacity and expanding that window of tolerance within our system to be with pleasant things too and to start orienting to like that can also be safe. That can also be a way to exist in the world. It doesn't have to be just in reaction to like, okay, everyone around me is okay so that I can feel this for two seconds, but I'm waiting for the shooter dropper. I'm waiting for the shift. Anyway, yeah. I just think that's another part. [Speaker 2] (1:03:24 - 1:04:01) Yeah. We go much deeper into this, obviously, in our 10-week group coaching program Rise Above the Herd, but also like the primary indicator of self-esteem is, is my primary motivation for life to avoid experiencing pain or is it for the potential to experience joy? And I think for so many people in their lives, like when the joy comes in, it's immediately like, oh my, but this is going to end. So unconsciously, we sabotage that experience before we even get the chance. So properly enjoy it, because on a deeper level, we don't feel worthy of holding joy of experiencing joy. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:04:02 - 1:06:22) How many of us as maybe little kids or whatever, we're having a joyful experience or an exuberant experience and got yelled at or got reprimanded or whatever, because you're in class and you're supposed to be sitting down quietly and not moving. Or even such a mundane thing as like, the parent is on the phone and they just need you to be quiet and you're in the midst of hysterical laughter. But then you get that feedback of like, you need to be quiet or that's not acceptable or that's dangerous because you're going to be reprimanded or you're going to, something's going to happen negative in repercussion of that. And so it's just understanding, we're just rewriting so much of that within our systems as much as possible over time. Yeah. And I think that's an important part of, in our experience, Joel, parenting is like rewriting what we knew for ourselves and then being able to hold space for ourselves and then being able to hold space for our children, why they experience this discomfort, why they cry, why they scream, why they discover their own emotions and how their body works and how the sensations feel in themselves. And hopefully we're starting this knowledge from a young age so that they're not so repressed or they've got all of this stuff stored and stagnant and they don't know what to do with all of that energy. And so, hopefully they'll be healthier human beings and just, but it's rewriting all the things that's what reparenting is. And conscious parenting and being aware and allowing not only joy, like we were told so often when we're younger that you have to just be happy or be positive, be happy. You can't show emotion. Don't be sad about this. Don't express this. And it's like, all of it is welcome. All of it is necessary. It's all part of the human experience. And when we... I have a loved one. But yeah, you get where I'm going with that. [Speaker 2] (1:06:23 - 1:06:47) Absolutely. And there's no doubt that they're going to be healthier. There's zero doubt within me that the experience that they're having as children is an incredible step up from the experience that we had, you know, through our understanding and through our own self-work. Like, I just have zero doubt there's going to be a lot less stuff. While there will be stuff to work through, there's going to be a lot less. [Speaker 1] (1:06:47 - 1:08:49) And it's, you know, there is going to be stuff and, you know, we're not here to be perfect either and to put pressure on ourselves and to, you know, they're going to have stuff. But to have parents that take a bit of accountability, parents that maybe can nudge them in certain directions or introduce them to outside knowledge and, you know, and let them find their own way and to know that they're infinitely supported by us and loved by us for who they are, that's the groundwork for their journey. You know, it's not going to be perfect. You're not trying to take away all of their pain because that's where the growth happens. And you want them to grow and expand. And you expect them to do better than we are. You know, we're not the be all and end all. And we've made great progress and good headway. But, you know, our children are going to be great in their own way and discover their own things and discover who they are. And just to allow that freedom is, yeah, incredible. It's so cool watching you guys parents. I mean, I've only been around you in person, what, three times now? So I say that like I get it, you know, the day in, day out. I also feel like, you know, you've stayed with us for, you know, weeks at a chunk. So I also feel like you get like more of a sense, you know, from the breadth of just like, you know, afternoon hang or whatever. It's like, we're actually like cohabitating for long periods. And it's like, I just want to reflect back that it's been like so beautiful and so healing and inspiring to just watch how you guys parent and watch how you guys relate with your girls and new baby coming and, you know, the whole process and everything. So I just want to relate that bit. [Speaker 2] (1:08:50 - 1:08:51) Thank you, Saifi. Thank you. [Speaker 1] (1:08:51 - 1:09:30) And to have our children around, you know, I say this to Joe often, it's like the people that we have met through this process is incredible. But for our children to be around, you know, this caliber of people, these people that know themselves and have so like vast knowledge and beauty within themselves, you know, our children are around you guys and we can tell they adore you and just like they're so excited every time they want to see you and talk to you. And that's a testament to the people that you guys are. And I couldn't imagine, you know, not being your friends. [Speaker 2] (1:09:31 - 1:09:32) And that's the thing for me. [Speaker 1] (1:09:32 - 1:09:34) We're family. We're family. Yeah, we're family. [Speaker 2] (1:09:34 - 1:10:02) That's the thing for me. For them to witness and receive the impression of authentic friendship, you know, and to have that foundation for what that means like going forward, like they're not going to grow up and like just welcome willy-nilly like any bullshit friendship into their life. They're going to know they had to have the resonance what it feels like to be amongst friends truly, you know, which is powerful for me. [Speaker 1] (1:10:02 - 1:11:43) That's what it comes down to. It's like, what are they witnessing? You can use all the words you want and you can say everything you want to your kids. But how are you behaving? What model are you showing for them? Because they're going to pick up on that. Yeah. And back to what you were saying before, it's like, you know, Sophie and I aren't parents yet, perhaps. And, you know, safety is it just comes like, like you said, it's not gonna be perfect. But like, can you create a level of safety for your child? And then how does that then impact them? Because I think of the people that I've come across in my life and I think about my own, I think about clients that I've had, you know, I'm definitely personally, less that I had parents that loved me and provided a certain level of safety and I had my own issues and shit that I need to work with and of course, continue to work with. But like, to be someone who is in their teens or in their 20s or in their 30s, and is consistently drawn to dysfunctional relationships and dysregulation, because of that is what's comfortable. And then someone comes into their life, who's like more regulated, and they need to self sabotage, and they need to end the partnership, because it's not comfortable. Like that, that kind of stuff that I've witnessed personally, conversations I've had with, with, again, clients and friends that breaks my heart. Because it's like, man, like, how do you like Sophie said, orient more to joy or to regulation. And then so when these blessings and these people come into your life, you know, especially in the form of primary partnerships, you're not just like, running away. [Speaker 3] (1:11:43 - 1:11:43) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:11:44 - 1:12:22) No, but again, that's part of a person's journey to of them having to like learn that and hopefully later on in life, you know, they recognize it and they go, Oh, okay, I see what's happening. And then they do the, they do the work necessary to get more present to build more capacity to learn about the physiology of their nervous system, to have more self love to have more self esteem. So then they meet someone that's on a certain level. And it's like, Oh, wow, we can build something. You know, and again, sometimes that process happens through a relationship, of course, if you stay with it. But more often than not, you know, people are just, they can't handle the, what comes up when you're around, let's say regulation and health. [Speaker 2] (1:12:22 - 1:12:56) Yeah, that's a really, really powerful point, man. Because it's like, what we're building is not just the capacity for like joy, but the capacity to recognize synchronicity and to recognize God in that sense. And to recognize the divinity, like, okay, sure. The universe gives us signs and signals and things like that. But are we seeing them? And for how many people are they just like constantly being passed by because of that lack of internal safety and regulation? Like this is the work that actually attunes you to the greater order as well. [Speaker 1] (1:12:57 - 1:15:28) Well, yeah. And also even just talk about human design, for instance. Oh, wow, I got a reading. I realized I'm a splenic authority or a sacral authority. Okay, I just need to honor my gut or I just need to honor that instinct. Well, if you're completely dysregulated and you're completely traumatized, like you're gonna be confusing like your splenic response or your sacral response, because it's a trauma response. You know what I mean? So like, again, it's like, great, we have these frameworks of self-understanding and knowledge, but it just doesn't end at the conceptual level. It ends or I would say it grows from continuing to do the somatic work and the deeper knowing of like, wow, okay, like these decisions I made, maybe they weren't coming from the right place. Maybe I need to rethink things or maybe I need to continue my work. And again, I do like to say often the proof is in the pudding. Like at some point, you're making these choices, you're making these decisions, you're doing these things, like what are you getting back? You know, sure, there's gonna be choices you make that are challenging and then lead you to the next evolution of growth. But if you're continually repeating patterns after patterns after patterns, you know, triggered in the same exact ways within family, within partnership, I think that's a good sign. Like, okay, I need to do something about it. And then we come back to self-responsibility, you know, the umbrella of life of, okay, I could blame everyone in my life. I could blame my mom. I could blame my dad. Sure, it doesn't mean we just blindly forgive everyone for the wrongs they've done, but what are you doing about it? What changes are you making in your life? Where are you taking responsibility for the role that you play in any dynamic? Because ultimately, you have more control over that than the other person. But I think that's also where, like, I'm a big advocate for getting into a relationship. So, because I feel like it is such a catalyst for growth, as long as you look at it that way and you take it as that opportunity. Because it's so, at least for me, it's like it's easier to be calm, collected, and fine, and whatever if I'm just on my own. But once you're in that dynamic with another person, you're getting those extra rubs. You're getting that extra feedback. You're getting that extra sort of relational dynamic that will bring up relational discomforts or issues. [Speaker 2] (1:15:29 - 1:15:37) There's more data points for awareness in relationship. You can have more awareness of self through the dynamic with the other. [Speaker 1] (1:15:38 - 1:16:54) I mean, I hear that a lot from people like, I just need to be fully healed, or I need to do this before I can get a relationship. And yes, and there's going to be things that come up once you get in relationship, regardless of how much you've done. Because it's still two individuals with histories, with past, with different ways of being, and experiencing life, coming together into a new way to combine it. But there's no like, oh, I'm just done, and I'm ready to be in relationship as this whole perfect person that's just going to glide through sunshine and rainbows. It's like, you know, you and I, we've known each other for 10 years now. And there's hardships. There's still things that are like difficult or rubbing, or you're like, who was it just the other day? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, what? Like you were eating something that was like so loud. And like, I just like- Oh, I hate it. [Speaker 2] (1:16:54 - 1:16:54) I hate it when he does that. [Speaker 1] (1:16:55 - 1:17:38) Like, am I still going to be upset about this? Or is it just going to be like, all right, whatever. Like, get over it. Like, is it worth like a fight after 10 years? Choose your battles. Yeah, exactly. But it's still like, I still get that impulse, you know, right? It's like recognizing that impulse or recognizing something that's coming up, and then making conscious choice around it, then making whatever. But like, if I'm not in a relationship, if I'm not having to deal with someone else's- Stuff. Yeah, being like, I don't know. It's just like- Totally. Where's the mirror? You know, you need the mirror. [Speaker 2] (1:17:39 - 1:18:01) There's a level of unhealthy selfishness in just remaining alone, you know? And there's probably even the tendency to, you know, it's to be avoiding quote-unquote challenge or trauma or discomfort by just thinking, oh, I need to keep doing the work by myself. Like, I'm not ready and no one else is ready for me either. So, just endlessly. [Speaker 1] (1:18:01 - 1:19:04) Well, also just even like anyone that has been in partnership and has been burned. I mean, like, I have to risk opening my heart up to someone and risk it being fucking stabbed again, you know, in some cases. And so, that's a big challenge in life. It's even just like people who own dogs, you know? Like, oh, I'm going to own this dog. I'm going to fall in love with this animal. It's not going to last very long and I'm going to have to deal with that pain. I want to go through that pain again. But that's part of life. That's part of opening yourself up more. And you know, it's one of my favorite roomie quotes. You know, you got to keep breaking your heart so it could open. And so, like, can you recognize where are you shutting off or where are you allowing yourself to go? You know what? I'm a human being. I'm going to dust myself off. I'm going to get back in the arena again. And I'm going to keep learning. I'm going to keep growing. I'm going to get into this partnership. And hopefully, I'm going to, you know, learn from it and then keep going. Or, you know, this is my person. I've met someone that, you know, can meet me and is willing to go the distance and is willing to do this kind of work, you know? But you don't know unless you step in the ring. [Speaker 2] (1:19:04 - 1:19:13) Yeah. And you know, man, it's not only risking getting your heart broken and stabbed or whatever it might be. It's also risking actually being loved in return. [Speaker 1] (1:19:13 - 1:20:15) Of course. Like I said, I feel like Yerasimos really expanded my capacity in that because he was brought up with and just has a much more stable attachment, you know? And even like, you know, going back to a previous conversation in this podcast of like, I think you and Yerasimos have more of that. Like you grew up with that orientation to like trusting life and trusting God and trusting the universe and like having that. And so even part of being a partnership was him mirroring that to me and shifting my ability to see it, ability to actually feel it or be with it because I was with somebody who had that, who already has that orientation. And so it was like, okay. Like, you know, you're met with that every single day. It's like harder to, it's harder to like rail against it. [Speaker 2] (1:20:16 - 1:20:24) I love the story that Yerasimos often shares about, you know, how you tried to break up with him and he was falling asleep or something like that. And he was like, no, why don't you just sleep on it? [Speaker 1] (1:20:25 - 1:22:08) Well, human design, Kate, human design into that for sure. Human design, we're emotional authorities over here. Let's see what happens as I'm breaking up with him. I'm fully breaking up with him. Year one in our relationship, she tried breaking up with me three times because I was like, I'm never getting married. And I still was being like, kind of operating with the Peter Pan archetype a bit, you know, the Puer archetype, like, nah, I'm not getting married. I'm doing my thing. Oh, we're having a good time. And she's like, no, I want to experience marriage. And then, you know, she tried breaking up with me multiple times and the last time was intense. But as two emotionals, like, what are we making a decision right now? Like, come on, let's go to bed. And then she woke up. I think I wouldn't end that. Here we are 10 years later. But I think there's also that part, like, because that growth or that personal growth, personal awareness is like the foundational strongest value, I feel like for both of us. We continue to take these things and even in relational dynamics that come up, it's like, okay, how can I step up more in this? Okay, how can I learn more from this? Okay, how can I gain more awareness from this? How can I grow and develop from these experiences rather than just like, screw you, I'm out. I don't need this. You know, and again, there's parts that probably come in for both of us, for moments where it's like wanting that or like, peace out, you know, for him, it's like, I'm just going to go live on a hunt on a beach with an internet connection. I'm like, screw all of this. [Speaker 3] (1:22:08 - 1:22:08) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (1:22:08 - 1:24:15) But it's like, also having that like, higher awareness, right? Having that higher mindset or, you know, self that comes in as like, okay, great mind adventure. That was super fun. Nice to experience for like, five minutes, but also like, let's get real. Let's get real. Like, it's been 10 years. We fucking love each other. We're in this, like, what's next? Yeah. But this is like, before I said, okay, you know, we have to have an understanding and education on like, the physiology of our body, etc. But it's also like, many people don't understand the architecture of the psyche, you know? And like, what is going on within you? What is happening? Like, do people understand the multiplicity of the psyche? Like, just because you have a thought or like, you go on a mind adventure, like, it's okay. Like, this is just an aspect of you. You know, is there that conductor within that is guiding these internal processes and building greater and greater and greater awareness? You know, in IFS, they call it the true self and voice dialogue, you know, a system that it's building a greater aware ego that can hold space for all these different parts of you, you know? And so, like, that's helped me, combined with knowing about being an emotional authority. Because like, if your wave is triggered, you know, these clusters of parts that are my specific patterns that come up, they're just like, F this shit. I'm out. I don't need this. You know, I don't need to deal with pain and discomfort. And like, being in partnership with one person, I'm going to go travel around the world and do what I want, you know? But again, it's like, let me let that wave settle. And then, oh, okay. No, this is a beautiful thing that I'm a part of. And I get to learn from this and grow and expand. And I love my partners. And I love being in partnership. But again, if we don't know this stuff, like, we make decisions from emotional reactions or from certain parts of us that peek through from the subconscious and like, can cause a lot of pain. And wreak havoc. Oh, yeah. It can wreak havoc. Yeah. So, you know, again, this just falls under the umbrella of self-knowledge. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:24:15 - 1:24:16) 100%, man. [Speaker 1] (1:24:17 - 1:25:32) And having those neurons outside. Because I feel like, like, watching you and Alyssa, you know, I think all of us know, all relationships have hardships and things that we go through and challenges and all of that. But like, watching you two navigate stuff, like, being in it, navigating stuff with us at times, watching Joel and Yerasimos navigate and go through things. And then just like watching what you guys have created, watching what you guys have done step by step, just following those impulses, following those leads within yourself, those nudges. Like, that's so inspiring. It's so inspiring to be around that or to watch that or to be in the midst of those kinds of energies. Because it is that, like, inherent, like, it calls that up. It rubs against those pieces that don't want to or want to argue with it or want to, like, no, no, no, like, I'm just going to go back into down here and everybody just, like, leave me alone or whatever. It's like, yeah. I just think it's been such a blessing and it's so inspiring to be around all of you. [Speaker 2] (1:25:32 - 1:27:01) Me too, for sure. One of the big things that I've been learning along the way is, like, what love really is, you know. And I think, like, in the beginning, like, you know, we over romanticize what love is, whether it's in a relationship or whatever else. But it's like, when you're with someone consistently and you keep moving through the challenges, you keep moving through the hardship, like, love is built, you know. Love is knowing someone so deeply and, like, genuinely wanting the best for that person's soul and that spirit. And it grows, you know. It's something that grows as you know a person, as you continue to see both the shit and the gold and go through it. And it's like, as a relationship continues to grow, whether it's me and Alyssa or, you know, me and Erasmus and what we have, etc, like, the last thing that I want to do is risk tearing that down because that's a value that I've accumulated over time. And it's this feeling which I get to have in relationship which I wouldn't trade for, like, anything else, you know. And being able to have, like, keep going through the hardships and the challenges and the joys and all of it and get to a point where something is really, really growing and you feel the immensity of that love and you know there's still more to be built, it's like, I'm in that. I'm in this. This is part of me now, you know. [Speaker 3] (1:27:02 - 1:27:02) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (1:27:02 - 1:27:09) No, it's not going to – it's not a random circumstance or a random fight or a thing that's going to tear this down. It's just – it's not happening. [Speaker 1] (1:27:10 - 1:28:34) Yeah. You've built something, you know. There's something long lasting. We've invested time and energy and anytime a conversation goes and talks about love, I can't help but want to tap into my lineage and talk about, you know, the six words for love, you know, that Greeks have, you know. Because, you know, love, it's like, okay, we say the word love, but there's so many different – It's not one dimensional. So many aspects of it, you know. And so, like, I just want to highlight for people that haven't heard this before because it's something that I think you can contemplate on in terms of your life and your relationships, et cetera. But the Greeks have the word eros, which I think most people are familiar with, like, from, you know, the word erotic, but it's romantic and passionate love. Philia, you know, is deep friendship, you know, affectionate love. Ludus. Ludus is playful, flirtatious love. Whether we got agape, I think that's something that I think people might be familiar more and that's like a more unconditional selfless love. And pragma is the thing I think that when I see people that have been in long relationships together, you know, have gone through the muck and have worked through things, and that's long-lasting practical love, you know, something that, you know, you're not going to experience in the honeymoon period. You know, it's something that gets built over time. [Speaker 2] (1:28:34 - 1:28:35) It's depth. [Speaker 1] (1:28:35 - 1:31:22) I see my mom and my dad when he was alive, you know, almost 50 years together, you know, that kind of stuff. And that was actually the thing that got me to finally commit to my wife because I was a commitment phobe and I was scared of committing to one person and getting married, but I went back home to New Jersey, like, this is several years ago. My mom, I think, had a surgery. I can't remember what it was. And I saw, like, my dad taking care of my mom or they were taking care of each other. And it was, like, so beautiful to witness. Here they are, these, like, little old Greek people, like, loving up on each other and then, like, helping each other when, like, you know, they weren't at their best. And I was, like, I had a moment there where I was, like, I want that, you know? I want to, like, have a partner that I can, like, grow old with and work through stuff and, like, I don't know, be silly and be old together and, you know? And it was just something that, like, that hit me in a whole different way, you know? On top of also going into New York City and seeing old friends that were just doing the same thing and, like, talking about, like, just, like, wanting to hook up with girls all the time. And I was, like, no, no, no, that's not. I don't want that life, you know? I want something deeper, you know? So, again, pragma makes me think of that. And then we got philotia, which is self-love, love of self, which is so much of what we're talking about, which I think is the foundation for a lot of this. So, yeah, love. You know, what does it mean to you? LSG And it was, like, a lot of, I mean, I think there's a lot of people who talk about this and a lot of teachers who utilize this, but, like, love being more of a verb. Like, it's an action. It is the continually showing up. It is the continually taking action to us, even in that last one of, like, loving yourself, loving your person, building that pragma, building the arrows, building, like, you're putting, like, Joel, as you were saying, like, you're putting time, you're putting energy, you're putting value into this thing and growing it. It's like, you know, a bank account. Like, you put money into it and it's going to grow. And I feel like it is that with love, it's like you have to keep putting it in. You have to keep going with it. You have to keep investing into it, just like we're talking about with solvency, just like we're talking about with all these other things. But it, like, comes even from that value system of growth and greater self-awareness and learning of, like, we're going to keep investing. We're going to keep putting ourselves in there. We're going to keep putting more energy and time because it's of value. [Speaker 2] (1:31:23 - 1:31:53) Yeah. It's something that, you know, transcends the self in that sense, you know. And one of my favourite books, probably my top three in terms of impactful, The Road Less Travelled, you know, M. Scott Peck, like, for him, it's like real love is like when it's hard, when within you, you don't feel like being loving. It's in those moments choosing to love and choosing to extend love. Like, that's when real love is being fostered. [Speaker 1] (1:31:54 - 1:33:19) It was so cool when you were reading that because, you know, Asmos was asking me about it because I read it in my junior year of college. It's like an independent study on, I can't even remember what the independent study was on, but I had built this independent study and one of the books was The Road Less Travelled and then his other People of the Lie. But it was interesting, like, pulling the book out and like what I was underlining as a junior in college and, like, my little notes in the, like, thing. It's just fun to, like, also have, like, those moments of, like, tangible, like, that growth, like, oh, wow, that's where my mindset was at or that was what seemed important to me at that time or that was what hit versus, like, maybe now, maybe it would be, like, the sentence after that or, like, you know, a different chapter would hit differently. And, like, I just love that about learning, that you can learn something in waves or you can learn something because we're constantly shifting because we're constantly going to orient to it differently of, like, you can read the same thing over and over or learn the same thing over and over and it's going to shift in a different way. It's going to hit a different thing. It's going to, yeah, alter other stuff. But I love that you brought it up because that was one of my favorite books that I completely forgot about. So, I appreciate it. [Speaker 2] (1:33:20 - 1:33:56) Yeah, definitely very, very powerful and grounding read, you know, especially for anyone new to psychological work. And it's true, you know, it's like we resonate with things at different times in our lives. It reminds me of that Heraclitus quote, no man steps in the same river twice. So, it is not the same river and he's not the same man. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. All right, guys. Thank you so much for joining us for our- Wait, did you just call them guys? Did you just call them guys? Guys. Oh, my goodness. I was going to say for our 200th anniversary as well. Yeah. It's a good 200th anniversary to start. [Speaker 1] (1:33:56 - 1:34:30) I just want to say, though, with that last book, you just said, like, it's cool that you started with that opening clip because to, like, see you guys are not the same guys and you were not stepping in the same river. So, thank you for episode one. Like, it's really cool, like, you guys have this, like, very tangible, you know, like, you have visual and auditory and thought, like, everything that's progressed through you guys in 200 episodes of this podcast. Like, that's fucking cool. That is a really cool legacy to have. [Speaker 2] (1:34:31 - 1:34:40) It is cool. It's like, you know, having a documentary filmmaker follow you around every week, you know, but literally, we have video footage of ourselves every week for the past, you know, three years or whatever it is. [Speaker 1] (1:34:41 - 1:37:25) Yeah, it is wild, you know, and again, like, even when we do some throwback reels and I see, like, the clips, I'm like, whoa, like, that's two years ago. Like, what was going on two years ago? Where were we? You know, how we look, how we're presenting ourselves. Yeah, I'm proud. I'm proud of what we've created and I'm proud that we answered the call and I'm proud that, you know, that you are our partners and I'm grateful. So grateful I couldn't. I mean, I've said this often, but like, you've changed my life, Sophie, you know, in so many ways and I think the key to any partnership is, like, how do you rub off on one another and how do you, you know, inspire one another and how do you grow from one another? Because it's like, your partner carries certain things that are their gifts and then another person carries something and it's like, well, how can I take some homeopathic doses of what you got that's going to support me to move forward and vice versa, you know? Because again, part of partnership is, you know, you mentioned that mirror, Alyssa, is that, like, you know, they're highlighting very often things that maybe we've forgotten about ourselves or we don't have access within ourselves and so we don't create wholeness by just unconsciously hooking up with another person, you know, like, in a codependent way. We create wholeness and relationship helps provide that because they're mirroring back and they're highlighting areas that we need to develop and reintegrate back into ourselves. So even this whole thing of, oh, that's my better half, it's like, no, ideally we want two wholes coming together and growing together as best as they can as opposed to, nah, forget it, you know, you got what I don't have and I have what you don't have and we don't need to continue doing anything else. Now, that may work in some cases, but generally speaking, how can we continue to grow? How can we continue to evolve and how can we use our triggers, especially in partnership, to highlight, you know, what's hiding in the shadows very often? Yeah, and you guys get it from two really intimate, deep angles, you know? You both get it from your wives and then you both get it with each other. And so I just sort of like, you guys are fucking badasses for being a little hold. One, us, like deep, deep partnership, romantic relationship, especially you guys with kids too. And then each with each other, like you guys together. I mean, it's pretty fucking cool that you guys have each other. I still can't believe that we met. Like, it's just kind of wild, you know? Like you're such a brother to me, you know? And like, how much I admire you for how you show up and what you provide to what we've created. Like, it's kind of crazy, you know, that you were on the other side of the world. [Speaker 2] (1:37:26 - 1:39:43) Yeah, man. Thank you, bro. I love you too. And, you know, I've often mentioned, you know, you've probably had the greatest influence on my personal growth journey, just like in getting to have conversations with you and to, you know, get the wisdom imparted very often in indirect ways, just, you know, through your being and through you being who you are. But just think about like all the things that had to take all the decisions that had to be made for us to connect, you know, for me to watch that Unslaved podcast and then to send you a message. And so, you know, there's so many different factors and variables that one thing, you know, if it shifted might have led to a different result. And how can you not just be in total awe and gratitude for the greater order, you know, when you're able to hold that perspective? And to be honest, this is enough for me. Yeah, this is enough. I don't need another, you know, third person or friendship or whatever it might be. So, like, you know, like this is more than enough and I'm very, very, very pleased with the evolutionary growth impulses that I have in these primary relationships. But yeah, man, I'm proud of everything that we built and created. And I know the best is still yet to come. I keep saying it, man. I feel like we're just getting started, but I still feel like we're just getting started, you know, for real. To everyone listening, none of this obviously wouldn't be possible without the fact that you listen to these conversations and you resonate with these conversations. And there's parts of you that feel like, you know, this is something which is beneficial to you in your life as well. You know, Alyssa can't express in enough words how grateful I am for, you know, the catalysts for growth that's been provided in our relationship. I, in many ways, am the man I am today because of our relationship. And I am the man that I will be in the future because of our relationship as well. Sophie, I love you too. You know, I just love who you are. I love being in your presence. I love having little chats to you when I'm in your house. And I really, really appreciate the friendship that we continue to build as well. [Speaker 1] (1:39:44 - 1:39:58) I can't wait to visit you all and meet your new little one that's coming. We go hang out together. So, we'll see when that happens. Just grateful to be able to spend this time with you all and let's keep rocking and rolling. [Speaker 2] (1:39:59 - 1:40:02) Yeah. Anyone else have any closing statements? [Speaker 1] (1:40:03 - 1:41:16) Well, I just wanted to say that I'm personally feeling grateful and my heart is full just from this conversation. And I know that this is what you guys provide for so many people. I personally witnessed the shifts and the incredible work that you guys do. It's profound. I appreciate you. I acknowledge you for sharing your gifts with the world because it's so needed. And you're both and Sophie in her work as part of Here for the Truth. But you're all really a valuable part of my life and a valuable part of this world. And I know so many other people are grateful and inspired by you every single day. So, thanks for holding the space for us all and showing up in all of your beauty and the people you were meant to be here. Thank you for that. I've never tried so much on a podcast. I know, actually, that's why I'm laughing. We got two 59.6 channels over here. You know what I'm saying? Shit. And aren't we all emotional? Certainly. Yeah, add four emotionals. Well, here's to episode 200. Cheers to you all. And I can only imagine what episode 400 is going to be like. [Speaker 2] (1:41:18 - 1:42:24) Me familiar. Thank you so much, guys. Thanks for listening. Thanks for being here. The journey continues. Peace out. Thanks so much for listening, guys. That was so much fun. Awesome to be able to have our wives on here and get to reflect and get to wrap on these topics as well. They got so much knowledge through this process as well and just through their own personal journeys as you guys have obviously witnessed now. Just in closing, I want to highlight for those interested in connecting on a deeper level, please, we highly recommend you join our free school community at schoolskoll.com forward slash here for the truth. Become a member there. We're doing one free global community call per month. And there's some cool exclusive content there as well. So if you're down to connect with others in our little universe and also connect with us, then check out school. All right, y'all. See you next time. Maybe two busy snooze and I'm in a DeLorean fast forward and never.