Kate Gladdin Resilience Is Not Bouncing Back

Joel 00:00:04.480 - 00:00:57.210 Kate Gladden is an international keynote speaker, bestselling author, and coach who has spent more than a decade studying what it truly takes to be resilient when life derails the plan. Named one of Australia's 100 Women of Influence, she has shared her message with more than 300,000 people around the world. She's the author of okay, now what? And host of the podcast by the same name, listens to in more than 50 countries. Drawing from psychology, human behavior, and her own experiences with profound loss, Kate's work challenges the idea that resilience is about finding the positive in difficult circumstances. Instead, she teaches people how to reclaim their agency and create something meaningful in response to what they cannot control. Originally from Sydney, Australia, Kate now lives in Wyoming with her husband and their two fur babies, Jim Jakku and George Hates. Welcome to Here for the Truth. Kate 00:00:57.930 - 00:01:03.530 Thank you so, so much for having me. I love this mix. Some Aussies, some Americans, Best of both worlds. Yerasimos 00:01:03.690 - 00:01:08.810 I love it. Real quickly, real quickly. Is there any way you could just put your camera up just a little bit? Because I feel like you're heading. Kate 00:01:09.050 - 00:01:13.410 Sorry. Yeah, there we go. Hey. Oh, actually it's probably easier if I. Joel 00:01:13.410 - 00:01:13.850 You're good. Kate 00:01:16.090 - 00:01:17.650 Scoot down too. Is that better? Yerasimos 00:01:17.650 - 00:01:18.810 Yeah, it's better. Yeah, it's better. Kate 00:01:18.810 - 00:01:24.520 Okay. It's also. It's weird. I need to get a different height microphone because I'm kind of going to be up for this one and then I'm so. Yerasimos 00:01:24.680 - 00:01:32.120 No worries. No worries. I get it. I think I had the same exact issue with one of my mic stands and I had to send it back because it was too tall. Kate 00:01:32.520 - 00:01:36.920 I probably should have with this one. I was like, ah, I'll make it work. And then you're good. Now we are. Here we are. Joel 00:01:37.240 - 00:01:40.040 I'm glad that's resolved. Now you're awesome. Us you're okay to proceed or. Yerasimos 00:01:40.600 - 00:01:41.520 Yeah, I am. I am. Kate 00:01:41.520 - 00:01:41.960 Okay. Yerasimos 00:01:42.920 - 00:01:45.000 I like to see people's whole heads,. Kate 00:01:45.480 - 00:01:46.760 Not just half my foreheads. Yerasimos 00:01:46.760 - 00:01:47.240 Yeah. Joel 00:01:48.120 - 00:02:04.290 Okay. One way we always like to kick off these conversations is we kind of want to dive deep into your personal hero's journey. Some of your major rites of passage, the most catalyzing moments in your life that kind of led you down the path that you're on now. So kind of wherever you feel called to begin, we're here for that. Kate 00:02:05.090 - 00:05:05.560 Oh, wow. Opening just the can of worms from the get go. I mean, really, the defining moment of my life takes me back to 3:37am on October 20, 2012. Because I grew up on the Beaches of Sydney, Australia. You know, great family, youngest of three. You know, I. We had a. We had a good life and I thought I could see the path ahead. I was just about to graduate uni and got a corporate position. And to be honest, I kind of lacked a sense of direction. I chose a corporate role because you could wear a pencil skirt and cute heels and look important. So it was kind of, you know, like so many people you think as, especially as you're transitioning out of like college, like, okay, this is my game plan. This is what I'm going to try and work towards. And then I can still hear that vibration of this, like in the middle of the night. And I flipped over my phone and it said 3:37am but more than that, it said it was my mom. And you know, when your mom's calling you at 3:30 in the morning, it's not, not for good news. And that's when my mum just her panicked voice telling me, you know, your sister's been in a serious motorbike crash. And I was just like, wait, what? And see, my sister was on holidays in Thailand at the time and I just seen her post up on Facebook that she was having like the best time ever. And so I was like, what do you mean on a motorbike? I couldn't even wrap my head around the fact that she'd got on one because she wouldn't have in Australia. But next thing I know, mom was just telling me, pray to God she survives. And it was those words where it dawned on me for the first time, like, okay, this is, this is serious. And I went and watched the sunrise. And you know, at the time I thought it was a sign she was going to be okay. And so I held on to that and came back in. And then I got the, the phone call at 7:33am that your mom just screamed, she's dead. And I still feel just falling out of my car. Thank God I wasn't driving at the time and just realizing that our lives had shattered forever in a way that we never could have imagined. Because my sister, she was my big sister. We grew up doing everything together. We shared a room up at. She was 24 when she passed and she'd still climb into my bed some nights, scared of the dark. So she was just the one person that was always there for me, full of life. Your beautiful wife, Alyssa had the chance to dance with her and she knows all about my sister's big smile. And it's like, how does someone with so much life and promise be stolen from us in an instant. And we have video footage that shows what happened. And you know, they were just turning into the driveway of their hotel when a rider came speeding up along the wrong side of the road and, and slammed into them. And yeah, just like that. That's really the beginning of where I am today, that life shattering moment. Yerasimos 00:05:07.240 - 00:05:20.520 First of all, obviously my heart goes out to you. Thanks for sharing that. Like, what, how, how was it for the, for you and your mother and your family for like the after effects? Kate 00:05:22.040 - 00:07:26.880 It's honestly a bit of a blur. Like when I look back now and try to remember, it was also so fast because it happened overseas. Mom and dad, like within moments. I got to their house, you know, as quickly as I could once I got the news, but they're already hugging me, saying, we've got to leave, we've got to say goodbye. And like, letting go of my mom at that moment was like the hardest thing I've ever had to do because I needed her more than ever. But I knew that my sister, you know, needed her more. And, you know, people rallied around us. I have to say, the support and the outpouring, I think when you lose someone so young and so tragically, it does really bring the community and send shockwaves through it. But I look back and I'm pretty. I'm just so proud of our family. And very quickly we knew that Nicole wouldn't want us to fight the old. And by that I mean there was no justice in Thailand. They were trying to get us to pay money and blame Nicole. And it was just like horrific what my family had to go through that week, just trying to bring Nicole because her boyfriend was driving at the time and they were trying to blame it on him and all of this stuff. And there was just no justice. And it was really tempting to just want to go back and scream and fight that, but we knew she'd want us to build the new. And so that's when we actually looked around and our house was turning into a florist of just flowers and everything, which was beautiful, but we knew they would die in a few days or a few weeks. And we wanted to create something meaningful that would last beyond just Nicole. And so very quickly, by the time we had her memorial, we created the Nicole Fitzsimons Foundation. And looking back now, again, I stand by the fact it's not just looking for positives in what you're going through, it's actually leaning into problems. And what can you contribute to a situation to create purpose in it that really gets your feet on the ground each morning. Even when your heart's in pieces, your body's aching, and you're like, I don't know if I can face the day when you have a reason why like, that to keep going. For me, personally, it's been. Yeah, it's gotten me where I am today. Yeah. Joel 00:07:28.480 - 00:08:05.290 So, like, what is. Like, I can't even, like, begin to, like, put myself in, like, that situation of receiving, like, a phone call like that out of. Out of a sudden, you know, not even, like, for a parent, someone older, maybe it's a little bit more expected, but like a sibling at that age. Are you able to, like, maybe, like, share a little bit about the internal experience of, like, processing such a profound grief and sudden shock and something as impactful as that and kind of like, what that happened, what happens inside you, like, during that process? Kate 00:08:06.810 - 00:11:14.940 Oh, at first, I just remember, like, I couldn't even breathe. Like, breathing hurt. Like, it's just like the word I. It's just like, whiplash. It's whip. What has just happened. Like, this isn't. You feel like you're in an altered reality for a long time. And, you know, it's. It's an interesting thing. I remember one because I'm trying to think that morning, because our house was already full of people. And in a way, I appreciated that. And the other way, I just wanted to scream and tell them to all get out. And I just wanted to, you know, scream myself and let it all out. But I remember sitting on my bed and my. One of my first thoughts was, oh, my gosh, one day I'm going to be 80 years old and say, it's been 60 years since I've seen my sister. It was just a very strange, like, wow, like, because at this point, it could have been. I think she'd been gone, like, a week. So it's seven days. But it's just like, is that really going to be my reality? And it's. It is hard and it's. You know, there's still moments where I go to. You know, you want to run to her and tell her all the news or the boy news or the drama. Like, that's just like. You share everything like that with it. So it has. It was really daunting to comprehend the idea of having a world without my sister in it. But I quickly realized that I get a say of how much I bring my sister back into the world with me, how much I continue to talk about her, share her photos, share her Memories. And through her foundation, like, the big part of it was, like, my sister, incredible dancer and ballerina and danced in Japan and over in New Zealand ballet. She hated seeing talented people held back from pursuing their dreams because of the financial struggles. So that's why we've given over $300,000 in grants over the last 14 years to underprivileged performers and athletes going through their own adversity that need that extra support. And so for me, I had to accept. And that's the hardest part, is the acceptance of, like, I'm never going to see him again, not in this form, not in this life anyway, that how can I keep the best parts of her alive with me rather than letting the best parts of me die with her? And that's just trying to find that balance and integration. And so it's. It's still ugly and shocking at times, and I still get upset of, like, I've lived now 10 years longer than my sister ever got to live. And I stand by. That's just so unfair. And that, honestly, there was guilt. Like, I told my sister, hey, I just been to Thailand and said Thailand was pretty cool. Why don't you go to Thailand? And so you want to. Like, there's the blame, there's the guilt. There's. She was so much more full of life than I was. Why not me? And so you wrestle with. With all of it, but eventually you realize you've got to find a way to. To integrate the loss into who you want to become from this, because you never will be the same again. Do you? I'm gonna get that toy off him really quick. One second. Oh, okay. Sorry. It's. I'm trying to be serious with you guys. And my dog, I put it up, but he must have jumped up and moved it off the table. I've heard you've got dogs, too, so I know you get what it's like. Yeah, I. Yerasimos 00:11:15.020 - 00:11:21.740 The dog. My mom, who's lived with us for the past year, brought her dog after my dad passed away, and we have five cats. Kate 00:11:22.300 - 00:11:23.580 Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yerasimos 00:11:23.580 - 00:11:24.780 We're definitely lover of animals. Kate 00:11:24.940 - 00:11:28.300 Okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna take him outside. Joel 00:11:28.620 - 00:11:29.100 All right. Kate 00:11:29.820 - 00:11:30.380 No worries. Yerasimos 00:11:30.380 - 00:11:30.940 No worries. Kate 00:11:31.100 - 00:11:31.580 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:11:31.980 - 00:11:33.100 What a sweetie, though. Kate 00:11:33.100 - 00:11:38.100 Oh, my God. He's. We got him just after mom died. It felt like a little gift from her, but. Well. Yerasimos 00:11:38.100 - 00:11:56.339 Yeah, well, I was gonna say that, too. Like, the. The beauty of animals in situations like this that just provide this resource, you know, the resource for us to feel connected and loved and. Oh, yeah. And it's Interesting, because some people understand that and other people don't. We got into that conversation with Ruby in the last. In the previous episode. Kate 00:11:56.339 - 00:11:58.820 Yeah, I really resonated with that. So I was. Joel 00:12:01.860 - 00:12:02.380 All right. Yerasimos 00:12:02.380 - 00:12:08.240 Yeah. Okay. Well, I know we were interrupting. Interrupted by your lovely dog. Joel 00:12:08.800 - 00:12:40.220 Let's. Let's get into kind of like this, you know, like, what. What did you observe? You know, when. When. When you say, like, oh, it's not just about, you know, like, finding, like, the positive. Like, do you find that, like, people in tragic moments like that, like, tend to deflect, maybe, like, find meaning too quickly or, like, you know, just find the light too quickly? Like, what was your observation in, like, coming up, know, with how you. I guess you perceive, you know, extreme losses like this now? Because people talk. Yerasimos 00:12:40.220 - 00:12:45.940 People talk about the different stages of grief and stuff. And it's like, I'm curious, your relations, what Joel said. Kate 00:12:46.580 - 00:19:17.690 Yeah, I mean, there's definitely different phases and stages. I don't think it goes as linear or in the exact order as maybe some of the research says, at least in. In my opinion. And I. I think, you know, people are so well intended when they come to you trying to ask you to find a silver lining or look for the blessing. And so I've really tried to not be in judgment of it, but just better educate people. And that often, sometimes mean expressing where I'm at and the support I kind of need. And I think sometimes when people go through tragedy, loss, sudden change, they almost feel the pressure to get to the positive place. But I actually think if we jump there too quickly, we're kind of buffering out the experience of, like, the lessons we're meant to learn from this or the problems we're meant to find, where we're supposed to step up and be the good thing that happens to the situation. And I think this past, I think it's 15 months now, has taught me this kind of more than anything, and I can go into that, another layer of tragedy, but this time also mixed in with even more trauma. For me, that has really helped made me, like, dig deep and really think, what is resilience truly about? Because my sister's loss was tragic and sudden, but I was quite far removed from it in Australia, and I was 20 years old and still at home with my parents. And so, you know, I had that community right around me, and I, you know, I quit my corporate job and took on her charity full time and. And just. It took me on such an adventure. It's why I ended up here in the US it's how I met my husband, now my American husband, while we were in D.C. it was through my sister's foundation and a mutual friend there. And our family had just spent like the last 13 years or so really healing and coming together to create as much beauty and meaning and purpose from losing Nicole and keeping her alive in our life. And last May, Mum and dad had come to visit me. And in Sheridan, Wyoming, where I live now, they'd just done a cruise in Alaska and they're living their best life again. And I felt there was a joy in my mum's eyes. It was a spot, like we went for a walk and we're laughing and there was a rainbow out and it just, it felt like this is. This is what they were talking about. With post traumatic growth, there's this shattered vase theory of, you know, if you've got this precious vase that means everything to you and someone suddenly knocks it off the shelf and it's in hundreds of pieces. Those who are least resilient in life of, like, what it's tempting to do with the vase and that's to want to piece it back together exactly how it was, but it'll never be the same. There's going to be gaps and broken shards and it's just going to be a more fragile vase. And so those who are most resilient, though, ask a different question. Rather than, how can I recreate and go back to what was. It's what can I create from this, given these pieces and where I'm at right now, do you want to make a bowl or, you know, some sort of ceramic something else? And that's what I felt like our family really did. We found a different way to bring Nicole and keep her living with us. And so I felt so proud. And it just. Our husband. Sorry, my husband and I had moved to, like, our dream little spot by the mountains. And I just feel like we were all breathing easier finally. And then on May 28th last year, in 2025, mum, I had a meeting downtown, a Boss Babes meeting of women business owners. And I was heading to town and Mom's like, you know what, I'll just come in, I'll go for a walk, might grab some lunch or something. I was like, sure. So off we went. It's about a 20 minute drive into town and we were chatting away and that Mum called dad, you know, get the beef out for dinner. And when we, when I parked, I said, all right, meet back. Let's meet back at the car at 1pm the last thing I did before I said goodbye to her, I was showing her how to put the harness on my dog, Jaco. And it was just such a, you know, everyday moment. See, back at the car. And I got back to the car, I think it was like about 1 1:09 or so. I'm not as punctual as my. As my mom. I was a bit late, but as soon as I turned the corner and saw she wasn't by the car, immediately I'm like, something's. Something's not right here. Mom's always punctual. So I called her phone a few times and there was no answer. And so I just immediately got this wave of. You just get that hot feeling in you like something is not right. And I called dad and I had. She left her phone at home. He's like, no. And I was like, wait, she has her phone because she called you. So I just start, like racing back up the street. And then I turned the corner from where I was the opposite way, and I just. That's when I just saw the road was closed. There was lights flashing, ambulance chaos everywhere. And I. My mind just screamed like, this can't be happening again. Thankfully, a friend had just walked out. I'd met her a couple of times. She walked out where the office I was in. And she just saw me shaking. She just took me by the hand and walked me down to the corner. And, yeah, that's when the police had her. My mum's handbag. And it set in and they're just like, you need a. You need to get to the hospital. It was like when Nicole was hit, I remember hoping that she just had a bump on her head because she was kind of clumsy sometimes. And I was thinking, mom's just like broken a hip or something. And then he's like, she's. She's unresponsive. So my friend just picked me up through, you know, threw me into her car, got me up there. And then before I knew it, you know, the doctors racing and we did everything we could. He just said her injuries were just too severe. And he. And he grabbed the back of the head and that's when I just screamed like, that's exactly how my sister died. On the back of the head injury on a foreign road by a careless driver. I was just like, how does this. How does this happen twice? So that has felt like life took this beautiful mosaic that our family had spent the last decade putting together and it just went and shattered it all over again. In the town where my husband and I had moved to find peace. Suddenly, we're in the middle of hell. So. Joel 00:19:20.730 - 00:19:21.610 What the fuck? Yerasimos 00:19:22.650 - 00:19:23.130 Yeah. Kate 00:19:24.730 - 00:19:27.610 Yeah. It's been a lot. Yerasimos 00:19:27.690 - 00:19:42.790 Yeah. I mean, there really. There aren't words, except, like. Yeah, that's like, what Joel said. What the. Like, what. What the. How do you. How do you navigate that? Obviously, you are navigating it. Kate 00:19:45.510 - 00:19:45.990 It's. Joel 00:19:46.070 - 00:19:48.470 It's like, how do you deal with the wine? Yerasimos 00:19:48.950 - 00:19:53.470 How do you deal with. And the anger? And the anger that comes up, like. Like. Kate 00:19:53.470 - 00:19:54.390 Yeah, well, I can feel. Yerasimos 00:19:54.470 - 00:20:15.130 I'm assuming there's anger, too, you know, that plays in. And how do you navigate that? And people have weird relationships with anger, and there's a lot of repression sometimes. So. Yeah, because, like. Because it's hard to, like, not hear that story and then put myself in your situation, you know, And. And try to, like, feel into what that's exactly like, you know, and. Kate 00:20:15.450 - 00:20:15.850 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:20:15.850 - 00:20:22.970 And to have it happen in a similar way, like, that's some weird, extra cosmic. I don't. I don't. I wouldn't even know. Like, you're like, what? Kate 00:20:23.210 - 00:21:51.860 Oh. And that's. That was the cruelest part. I think of it all. It's just how similar and, like, part of the whole foundation. Like, so when we. When I talk about problems help you find purpose. Like, what really got me going after Nicole died was realizing we're losing an Australian in Thailand every two to three days. And I was like, that's not okay. Too many Aussies are taking risks in Southeast Asia. I'm gonna share my sister's story, try and save a life in her honor. My mum really took that on. Like, we were all about travel, safety, and being safe and cautious because my sister never would have gotten on a bike without a helmet in Australia. Like, don't go doing it overseas. Not to blame her, but to help someone make a better choice in her honor, that's what she'd want. But then when my beautiful mum, like, we have it on. We have that on video also. Is she literally. She's waiting at the corner. She presses the button. She waits. She presses the button again. She gets the walk signal. She goes. She's into the crosswalk when a driver just doesn't care to look. And, you know, my dad and I. Dad wanted to visit the scene afterwards, and I can't explain the amount of blood there was. And watching my dad just crying over it and then having to pull him away because they were trying to do the investigation. But the worst part in all of that was in two days later, we get to the police station. And they're telling us at most the charge is a misdemeanor. Yerasimos 00:21:52.750 - 00:21:58.030 What, there's no, like, vehicular manslaughter? Kate 00:21:58.270 - 00:24:31.250 Well, there is, but in Wyoming, it's unless. So, and that's where, again, I'm finding a problem to turn it into purpose. But it's. So, yeah, it's. There's vehicular homicide in Wyoming, and then there's reckless vehicular homicide. Reckless, you'd have to be under the influence at the time of the crash or driving in such a way that the prosecutor said to us he would have had to be doing 100 miles on the wrong side of the road down main street because of this word. Conscious disregard for safety. And the definition of reckless means you have to prove your state of mind. It very rarely gets actually successfully prosecuted. So we're looking at, yeah, it was a misdemeanor, but on top of that, he was on probation just five weeks before he killed my mom. They gave him probation for domestic battery and evading police. And then before that, he was still already on a probation for a DUI. But, yeah, his criminal record spans about 10 plus years of all the different crimes under the sun. And you hear, so it's one thing, like, I don't think Wyoming is only one of five states where homicide can be a misdemeanor. So there's also criminally negligent homicide, and then there's homicide by vehicle, and they're both misdemeanors. So part of my work over the last eight months, I've testified a few times at the Capitol and to the Joint Judiciary Committee is to look at adding aggravated factors so we can make deaths like my mother's and deaths with pedestrians doing everything right, crossing safely at a crosswalk to not be blamed for their death. And sort of you were, you know, you should have looked or whatever. It's like there comes a point at which the responsibility has to go back on the driver. You're taking someone's loved one, someone's everything, someone's world. And I think we're getting more and more distracted driving. There's more dings and whistles and touch screens and everything going on. I'm like, we need to tell drivers there's going to be consequences for distracted driving. And, you know, at first I thought it might have been. It was a. It's at the edge of a high school, like, street. And I thought, maybe it's a high school kid and I'm not going to try and ruin his life for that, like, maybe there's education we want to do or something, but when you hear it to driver like that. And the lady who ran to say, mom, I. I met with her and. And thanked her and she just told me she held her and was speaking to her and she's like. When I told the driver, look, she's not going to make it, his response was, what's going to happen to me? And it's like that just says everything right about. Joel 00:24:32.450 - 00:24:33.010 Yeah. Kate 00:24:33.330 - 00:24:41.330 Some drivers on the road and why we need more accountability and actions have to have more consequences at certain. Certain times, so. Joel 00:24:48.610 - 00:24:59.970 And didn't expect to feel. This deeply, you know. Kate 00:25:03.570 - 00:28:18.680 Yeah, it's. I think the worst part was. I mean, there's so many layers to it, and I don't know how deep you want me to go on all the intricacies, but it's. I mean, I will go back to, like, the early days before we even discovered much about the drive or anything, because you're not. When it first happens, you don't even think. You're just like, oh, my God, my beautiful mum. Like. And, yeah, so I was. But even I didn't quite remember it because it was so traumatic. But my husband said I just started screaming, oh, my God, I've killed my mum. I've killed my mum. Because if I just hadn't gone into town that day, and that is something that. There's no putting a pretty bow on that. I think that will haunt me for the rest of my life. And that's something that I've got to. I know I won't ever make peace with that, but I have to also realize if I let that thought consume me and that focus consume me, she's gonna die away too, like. And so I just. I have to hold space for those moments where I will go there and I'll, you know, ugly cry in my bed and let it all out. And then I'm like, but mum, I know what she'd tell me, and I have to also respect her agency of. She wanted to be there, she wanted to go on that drive with me. She. So both can be true, I think, withholding that. But I. I mean, I don't understand how someone could do that. Like, I was so far removed from the actual action of this guy, but he still went into, you know, court and was like, not guilty. And I'm like. So we went. We had to start the trial preparation. And at first we're like, you know, full 12 months, $2,000 fine. Like, that's the maximum. Right. But as you actually look into vehicular homicide cases, they can be hard to get a successful conviction on because, well, firstly, the frustrating thing for us is, you know, the jury can't know anything about his history or anything. So a lot of drivers sit there and cry and say how sorry they are, and haven't you almost not looked once or something? And then next thing you know, the jury's sympathizing with them and off they walk. And so as it got closer and we're hearing, it just got to a point where my dad's like, I cannot stomach him getting away with not guilty and taking no responsibility for it. And we were told if you take a plea deal of a certain amount, you can put it in front of the judge. And I thought, well, this judge let him walk five weeks earlier. Surely she's going to be like, all right, this is some accountability. So we said, you know, at the end, it landed at 60 days. We're not. We weren't happy about it, but it did mean we did not have to sit there and let the defense pick apart my mother's death. And, you know, they had me in the report saying. I said my mum was very lame. I'm like, what? Firstly, I don't even use that word, lame. I'm not from 1965 or something like that, but it was just. I would never say that about my mother. And then I spoke to the police. He's like, oh, yeah. They just confuse. Like, they plant things a little, like, say things to plant confusion for the jury so they can't know for sure. And you just like, this whole thing is so. Joel 00:28:19.400 - 00:28:22.160 It seems so straightforward. Why is it becoming so convoluted? Yerasimos 00:28:22.160 - 00:29:16.890 Like, the legal system there. It's like the justice system, legal system obviously has its flaws. Like, and. And I just want to share a personal story that relates. I was living in New York City, and I witnessed someone go in the crosswalk and a FedEx truck just came in and hit the person. Now, the person didn't die, but I was like, oh, Good Samaritan cop shows up. Hey, I'd like to let you know exactly what happened and. And be a witness. I had lawyers on me. I got deposed multiple times. They tried to make it seem like I was drinking and high the night before. They. I. I went through all this questioning where I go that I don't want to be a witness ever again. Like, it makes. Not even want to do that because they're literally going into your history in your past, trying to get you to make you Seem like you're an idiot all because you happen to be there, witnessed this horrible thing of a, of a, of a FedEx driver not paying attention to the walk signal or the fact that in the middle of the road. Kate 00:29:17.050 - 00:29:17.450 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:29:17.450 - 00:29:20.330 And like, are you serious? It's ridiculous. Kate 00:29:20.650 - 00:31:58.530 No. And that's what we just. It's all a nightmare. Like, no matter what, there was no nothing, you know, and here's the thing. People say nothing brings your mom back. I'm like, well, thank you, Captain Obvious. It's very real to us every minute of every day. But there is a certain level of which you can show my mother's life some dignity and some respect and recognize what has been ripped from our family and shattered us forever. But the whole idea of a trial, like, so we ended up doing sentencing that was four hours long because we, the prosecutor had to kind of explain what happened. And thank God we had video of it or they would have made up some story or something. I don't know. But I could already tell that defense then came back trying to do all these math equations about how he couldn't have seen mum, but they never really did it from the place he actually stopped. And anyway, it went on and on. And then, yeah, next thing you know, he's, crocodile tears are coming down. And the judge is like, you know what? This is a tragedy for everyone. And I just wanted to like scream. I'm like, this is, this is not. There's, you know, there's only one victim in this truth. It's my beautiful mother. And she can't speak right now. And the hardest part, again, I'm learning more about the legal system than I ever wanted to, especially here in the, in the U.S. i never thought it'd be something I'd become so passionate about. And obviously it's different state by state, but in Wyoming, you're only considered a victim. Like, only felonies are really crimes. And so we didn't have full victims rights to just stand up at the sentencing and share our thoughts and feelings. We had to be entered in as witnesses. So next thing you know, you're trying to talk and the defense is like objecting. They cross examine my dad. Like, I'm like, how we're talking about a homicide here. Someone's died. We're not just upset because someone ran over my mailbox. Like, and so that's another thing I'm trying to look at changing the law. So I mean, ideally I would like to see. And we're starting to move the, the needle forward in the Right direction. But potentially even having homicide removed as a misdemeanor and put as like a, like, negligent death becomes like a local class felony to show some accountability. Because when you're. You literally are traumatized forever by what you see and what, you know, imagining what your loved one goes through. And for me, knowing I was five houses away when my. While my mom was laying dead, like, dying on a road, and I, you know, that's the part where I just want to rip my skin off some days and be like, universe, how twisted and cruel can this story be? Yerasimos 00:31:59.170 - 00:32:03.490 Feeling a helplessness, you know, that you can't. Can't be there and help and protect. Kate 00:32:03.490 - 00:32:28.710 And I mean, I just. I don't know, like, in my mind. And that is a little bit like my sister trying to save a shred of innocence for me. Like, I didn't see Mum there because that, I think would have really taken my PTSD to another level. But then at the same time, I feel so, again, the guilt is still. Just eats you alive some days. But how. Yerasimos 00:32:29.590 - 00:32:30.710 How's your dad doing? Kate 00:32:31.990 - 00:33:54.880 Oh, dad. Yeah, he's. He's definitely the strongest person I know. He's. He know, like, we kind of know at the end of the day after, like, because we've lost Nicole and now mom, it's like you have to keep living, but, you know, it doesn't mean that you'll forget it. Like, I think that's the hardest part is, you know, we still talk about Mum a lot. Our whole house now is all Dad's, like, favorite photos of Mum, big canvases, integrating her into the home as much as we can because she was the queen of the kitchen and loved, you know, entertaining. And I think that, like, when I look back now, I'm like, it's so messed up. Like, we knew what to do after Mum died to bring a body back home, we knew who to call. How the travel insurance. I'm like, this is not something a family should like, because we already had to do it with Nicole. I'm like, what the. We had to call all the family members again and just hear, like, the. So it's. He was just so stoic, but in the right balance of stoic. Like, still felt it. But yeah, he's. He's definitely my inspiration. We talk every single day now and we're closer than. Closer than ever. But, I mean, I. I hate it for him. He's flown now. Both his daughter and his wife home dead from overseas. So, yeah,. Joel 00:33:57.600 - 00:34:09.600 Before you said, I know what my mom would say. To me, you know what, what would she tell you in terms of, like, how to proceed from that? Kate 00:34:14.169 - 00:37:20.030 I think she'd say, now go keep living for the three of us. Because I always used to say, I'm living for the two of us when it came to Nicole and I. But I also, you know, I heard a bit around Christmas time. Mom died in May. And leading up to Christmas, I went home for the first Christmas without Mum and people, I started hearing a little bit like, oh, they just want you to be happy. And I pause on that and I go, no, you know what? My mom would want me to be healing. And she's already lived through grief once. She knows that sometimes the hardest lift of your whole day is to get your feet up onto the ground out of bed. She knows some days she's got to pull the curtains down, have a cry. Like, she knows how ugly, messy, hard healing could be. She wouldn't want me to, like, force the smile on because I know she hated that more than anything when her friends wouldn't allow her space to be a grieving mother. And so I know she also say, allow space to be, yeah, a grieving daughter and give. You. Give yourself compassion and kindness and. Yeah, I have this. I also have this rock. It's a little, I guess, memorial that I have. I call it Mum's garden because she was going to go. She told me that day before we went to town that my garden bed was looking a little atrocious. Too many weeds. She wanted to plant a garden there. So it was so beautiful. After I got back from Australia, after Mum's funeral, my friends came and we planted Mom's garden and we put this memorial rock in. And I. It's got in tribute to my mom and sister, but I didn't want anything too sad or heavy when I looked at it. So back in, like, 2020, I actually had mom on my podcast show, and she was a little interviewer for my 100th episode. And I told her, what would you tell, you know, the younger people or, like, people just needing some words of advice to get the most out of life? And she just said, always give your best. Don't give up. Do it with passion. So now I have those words on that rock every day that I go out. And I just. I already know, like, that's what she'd be. That's what she'd be telling me. And it's. It's weird. At first I was worried. I've lived so long for my sister. Now I'm, like, trying to hold space to grieve them both. So sometimes, like, you know, post up about missing mom. I'm like, oh, but I missed Nicole and I just have to, like, know that one doesn't take away from the other. And I actually got Mum's heartbeat, I don't know if you can see tattooed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. On my wrist there. Because in the hospital, the nurse came in and she's like, do you want to see your mom? And I'm like, I don't know, do I? Like, I know she's got a head injury. Like, I. I'm not good with blood and I don't think Mum would want me to see her that way. And she's like, look, I'll go in and imagine it was my mum and then I'll come back and tell you if I think you want to see her. So she came back in and she. She looked at me and she goes, I think you hold on just to your final memory with your mum. Yerasimos 00:37:21.230 - 00:37:21.630 Then. Kate 00:37:25.390 - 00:38:02.690 She placed this in my hand and it's Mum's final few heartbeats. So I took that. And on the. My sister's anniversary of her Death is on the 20th of October, and mum's birthday is on the 25th of October, so that first week of surviving the first year of having to grieve my sister without my mom and my mom's first birthday, I got. Got the tattoo on her birthday and. Yeah. Reminds me not to waste any heartbeats. But also, you know, my reason why my heart beats now is for the two of them too,. Joel 00:38:06.930 - 00:38:20.290 Man. This is. Yeah. What is. How do you relate to the divine after all this? Kate 00:38:23.330 - 00:42:21.240 I love that you asked. That's really interesting. So I have seen, like, I've met with some spiritual, like, creatures and different things like that. To be honest, some days it's two fingers up in the air, like, why? Why? And there's things I've been told and I. Sometimes I'm like, but why me? I feel like I was the weakest one. But, like, little things, like, I always love to speak. From, like, a young age, I'm like, I want to be a speaker. Like the. To me, the power of the voice and to express yourself and to move and connect with people has always been something I've loved. Like, I felt this calling to. And then, you know, I've met with, like, some coaches and people and they're like, even given where both your mom and sister's injury was, it's like right there where your voice and I feel a lot in here about like there. So it, to me it's something of like I. When my sister died, I pictured her like me passing me the baton at like in a relay, trying to just tell me like keep going and living for the two of us now. And I almost feel like it. It is the same with, with mom and Nicole. And you know, I heard the other day like this is how much I really believe, like energy never dies. Like I hated their. This life they had on earth died so tragically and I would do anything I could to undo it, but I can't. But I really do believe that love never dies, energy never dies. And someone said to me the other day, would you like what if we could live forever? And I was like, oh no, that sounds terrible. I got my mom and sister to go find on the other side. I was like, I really do want to reconnect with them one day and I do believe that I, that I will. But I, I don't know, I, I have to let life humble me sometimes and trust that there is more, more to this. But we also have a biological human body and brain that needs healing and processing. And I'm not like just totally in the woo world I would say, because I think the visceral memories and trauma and you know, I'm choosing to stay and live in the town. I even just this past week I was on the corner where mum was hit, part of a pedestrian safety audit to try and make that corner safe, safer and give drivers more accountability and warning to remember to look for pedestrians. And I'm not naive. I know that there's still going to be drivers that don't care about themselves, anyone else but themselves on the road. But that's, that's my healing is to move towards, to rewrite some of the stories. I even went back to the emergency room and thanked the nurse who gave me that mum's heartbeat. And it was so powerful to go back. And I smiled at the place where my world shattered and I was like, I. I don't get to write every detail of my life but I am co writing this story and I get say over this and I want to like the community. We now have a scholarship at Sheridan's College for a performing artist in my mother's name to continue her legacy of generosity. And my town came together and we did a pedestrian awareness month and people feel and remember her here. And I think if I was to move, it would feel even weirder to be somewhere where I don't have any moments with mom or things I could hear her say at that point and maybe, maybe this was her saying, I'm going to be right here with you always at the place you love most. So. Yerasimos 00:42:25.640 - 00:42:26.280 Interesting. Joel 00:42:27.400 - 00:42:31.560 I was gonna say at least I listen to you and it's like I've been through nothing. Yerasimos 00:42:33.780 - 00:43:22.990 No, but like relatively speaking. Which I think it's also why it's hitting, hitting you so deeply in that way. I think that's my thought, you know, because it's so real. Like it's happened to me. Feels like you have such a connection to siblings and, and parents and you know, to lose these people in your life, like it's. I mean it's a shattering. I mean there's no other way to say it than a shattering. When someone goes before like they quote unquote should go. You know, it's one thing when someone who's 90 years old passes away, they've lived a full life but you know, a 20, a 24 year old sister and then a mother, like it's something that people quote unquote like no one, no one wishes to have this experience. It's just something that life brings you and. Kate 00:43:23.630 - 00:43:24.070 Yeah. Joel 00:43:24.070 - 00:43:24.390 What. Yerasimos 00:43:24.390 - 00:43:25.570 You know, yeah. Kate 00:43:25.730 - 00:45:00.110 And you know, I naively thought that our family had ticked the tragedy box. Like oh, you know, we've already paid our dues when it comes to having to deal with the unthinkable. And I just, you know, even just the other day I just came out of my office crying and Nate's like, what's, you know, I'm like, it's just sad. My mum deserves so much better than her beautiful face and hair. Like, I just hate that that's how it ended. She. That's the thing. I know we're all going to eventually lose our parents and loved ones at some point and. And I think the other thing I've went in the early weeks after it happened and I can imagine that maybe this happens with some people agree. Like I lost my sister suddenly I lost my mum suddenly there is no one I love in the world more than my husband. And I became so scared. Like part of me just wanted to like shut off and stop loving him because I can't even fathom like now having lived through it and know just how much it rips at the being of who you are, it. I almost wanted to like recluse away and try and save myself from that pain. But you know, you can't, you can't do that. Like there's no. When you love someone, you love someone. And I just have to know at the end of the day. Love's what makes it all, all worth it. But it is, it's a real thing. And it's so cliche. But if anything, Joel, just, just go keep loving your family and everyone in your life as deeply as you can. That's all I ask. Like, from hearing my story is something. Yerasimos 00:45:00.190 - 00:46:18.020 We talk about so often on this podcast, and it has had a huge impact on me, and I feel like I bring it up all the time because I think it's so powerful. Is the phrase, memento mori. Remember, you will die. Like, we're all gonna die. We don't leave this. But when we face this, when we experience someone close to us passing, like, it needs to be the reminder that every breath, every moment is precious, you know? So when you spend it with the people you love because you have no idea what can happen around the corner, like, five minutes later. And so, and you've experienced that on multiple occasions. And it's like, like I mentioned earlier, I, we moved my mom out here after my dad passed away, and he lived a very long, full life. But, like, I literally can't help but I hug my mom for like an extra minute. I, like, smell her. Like, I just, like. Because it's like, it's exactly what you said to Joel. It's like you just have to relish and embrace the moments and, and not take people for granted. And I just feel like we live in this world where many of us think, like, okay, another day is going to come. Yeah, we don't have those conversations and we don't spend time with certain people because we, we think we'll have another week or what, we'll see them next month. And the reality is that nothing is, that's not promised to us. Kate 00:46:20.420 - 00:48:34.540 It, it's so, so true. I remember even right before Nicole died, I, Nelly didn't go to her 24th birthday because I was still at uni and stressed about exams. And I don't know, we got in like, this little fight and I was like, I'm not gonna go anyway. Thank God I got over my ego there and went along because I got one of our favorite final photos. It's the one that sits up there. But that was such a wake up call for me. Like, whoa. I was so close to not nearly going to my sister's last birthday. And you know, I, I, I love it that I did go home for mom's birthday in 2024. So thank you past self for doing that. And what's crazy is on my final night in my childhood Home with my mom on 2020, in 2024. There was like this huge giant rainbow over our house. And then my last photo that I ever got with Mum, this one here, we were under a rainbow. But this was at my house in Sheridan, Wyoming. And so I do think, and people who have lost some, and I don't know for you if you found like little signs or whatever, but I've had rainbows show up at like the most beautiful, powerful times. Even the anniversary. The day before, the one year of losing Mum, I was sitting in my office and the wind just started stirring up and I just like felt it in my soul. I picked myself up, I walked outside. I couldn't see it, but I turned, looked up and there was just this rainbow on, like the day before we lost her, right in this way where I was in the middle of something and then I just felt the. Felt the calling. So I do think if you open your heart to it, it's just, you've just got to learn how to love them beyond what the eye can see and beyond what word can communicate. And so I really feel like I'm very much more in my body and my soul than I used to be. I was very materialistic and uptight and anxious and all that before I lost my sister. And I tried to keep that, you know, those lessons going through losing Nicole, but it's definitely like I've doubled down on that yet again through, through losing mom is to make the most of my time here with people, but also keep my heart open to like, what's next? Because I really think there's something more. Joel 00:48:35.740 - 00:48:47.820 Yeah, I feel like you've been kind of answering this question throughout this conversation simply by being who you are. But I guess, like, what is resilience to you? Kate 00:48:51.420 - 00:52:30.360 To me, I mean, there's the official. What you'll never hear me say. I'll say resilience is not bouncing back because we're not bouncy balls or elastic bands. And a lot of the time there is no going back. To me, to be resilient really is to stay into. Stay in the power of your response, to choose your response and to respond from your values and who you want to be, to help you create what comes next. It doesn't mean you don't go through the initial post traumatic stress and struggle. That's a part of being human. I just like to say, like, at some point we're all going to be victims to someone's actions. Like my mother was definitely a victim to that driver's action. And as a result, our family were victims and felt very real pain and trauma, and we will for the rest of our lives. But there's a difference between being a victim and living in victimhood. One is just like, somewhere life's gonna throw you and you're gonna have to figure your way through it. But then to me, it's like victimhood's like your neighborhood. Like, you set up shop there and you live life from there and you stay in blame. And I think there's a difference between blaming the driver. You're responsible and you're to blame for taking my mother's life. But I'm responsible for how this impacts my life in the big picture. And that's the best news because I take my power back then of how I want to weave these tragedies into my life. And so I think it's just, to me, resilience is all about tapping into that agency and not succumbing to the pressure to just look for the positives. As I said, I've said it a few times, but really there is no good in my mother being run over by a driver who shouldn't have been on the road or my beautiful sister's life being cut short. And I think it's actually quite an entitled approach to the world. Like, oh, life's just always going to hand us the good. And what's happened when really I think life is sometimes, and I don't think it's negative to say it's a reality. There's not always good in what happens, but we can build it, create it, shape it into something good by how we respond. And that often means if I, if you look at all the trajectory of my entire career, my entire life, everything that's helped me heal and get to where I am today, I continually look problems dead in the eye and go, what can I do about that? How can I contribute some sort of solution or progress to that? For my sister, it was around travel safety, it was the grant giving for people that couldn't afford to go. Even when I got into the world of resilience, it was seeing people hurting and struggling with their own resilience and wanting to do something to help. That now with my mum, what's helped me channel all that anger and rather than just trying to stuff it down is looking at the problem with like the misdemeanor and pedestrian safety and distracted driving. That's what's keeping me going is using problems and lessons and not just trying to smother them and, you know, fake Smiles and, you know, you've got to be willing to, as they say, feel it to. To heal it. So for me, it's just that channeling. And I think there's a quote you guys will probably love. I heard it the other day and it's just come to mind now, which kind of, I guess, links and is really accepting. I can't remember who quoted it. So credit to whoever you are. I think it's a psychologist from many years ago, but it is. One does not become fully human painlessly. Yerasimos 00:52:31.160 - 00:52:32.920 Sounds like something young would say, but. Kate 00:52:33.240 - 00:52:35.720 Oh, I don't. It was like a Roll. I think his name was Roll. Yerasimos 00:52:35.720 - 00:52:36.200 Roll. Kate 00:52:37.960 - 00:52:42.120 Yeah, but I love that idea. Like, one does not become fully human painlessly. Yerasimos 00:52:42.200 - 00:52:42.920 Hell no. Joel 00:52:43.959 - 00:53:08.140 Yeah, but like, yeah, where did this come from for you? Because like a hundred thousand people could experience the same things that you did and they would crumble. They'll be debilitated for life and live in that victimhood place. So, like, where, like, where did it come from, like, for you initially is like, pull that thread and be like, no, not me. Kate 00:53:10.700 - 00:56:06.720 I think it's a little bit. A little bit of anger and a lot of bit of love. So I would say it was a, like the anger part. And that was just like, for the driver who took my sister's light, like, you've already taken her life. I'm sure as hell not going to give you power over mine. You do not get to. You might have stolen her physically, but watch me go and create something that lives on way beyond the time her feet last touched the earth. So it's a little bit of like, grr. F you. No, this is not how it's going to end. And then just so much of like, love of like, I would see my sister smile and be like, every day I get on this earth is another day she didn't. So it's up to me to make the most of it. How dare I sit back and stay in that victimhood place when she'd give anything for another, you know, at the time, a hug with my mom, a walk with our dog. And so I think it's. And it's also, shit happens. Like, it could happen to any of us. And so who am I to sit back in victimhood like, oh, this happened to me and my family as if it should have happened to someone else. I think it's accepting, like, life is hard, but I. And at the end of the day, it's a tragedy either way. We all die at the end of it, so we might as well Leave something meaningful with it. And when you write a funeral speech when you're 20 years old for your sister, it really changes a lot about what. What matters and what people truly remember you, remember you for. And, you know, right down to we went into. My sister actually worked. You'll know this, Joel, Channel 9, the Footy Show. Do you remember that? Yeah. She worked behind the scenes there at the time because she wanted to become a sports journalist. And there was a note at the her telephone that the cleaner had left, and he just said, thank you for always being so kind and saying hello to me in the hallway. And I was like that. That's the stuff that matters. It's, you know, treating everyone like a someone and slowing down and not getting on the rat race of how many followers do I have on my bank account? I like to say, if you can count it by a number, I can count. I can tell you it won't count that much at the end of your life. In a funeral speech, you don't see many numbers listed, but you do hear stories of impact and connection and generosity and also courage. I had people, so many people walking away from my sister's funeral, even friends of mine that didn't know my sister that well yet, going, I've walked away inspired to live more. And I was like, yes, that's the ultimate. Like, to have lived your life in a way that when people read your eulogy and hear the stories, they want to go and live more. Yerasimos 00:56:07.400 - 00:56:26.680 Do you. Do you find that that's something that you receive often? You've been out here, you've been telling your story, you have your foundation. Like, is that the thing that people respond with, like, more often? Like, especially if they've been through something similar and maybe they're not at the place you are, and that you give them a little bit of hope or a little bit more courage? Kate 00:56:27.640 - 00:57:32.100 Yeah, Yeah. I think a lot of people see themselves in my story, and I invite them to, because my story, I'm not telling it for me. I'm telling it so you can identify and empathize and feel. Because especially when you do go through trauma and tragedy, some people just, you know, it's too much for them to talk about. And so I'm quite vulnerable in my podcasts and keynote. So I think it connects with them. And then, yeah, it's the coolest thing, like, I've literally had. I was just texting her yesterday, but, like, there's a lady, a beautiful woman at one of the conferences who'd lost her friend years ago and had always wanted to do something but kind of felt stuck or on shore. And anyway, this weekend she's launching that foundation for her friend because, like, she heard my story and I've helped her figure it out. And that's what I. I love to do now, really helping people build from what they've been through rather than trying to sweep it under the rug or like, stay stuck in the. Trying to recreate what was. It's like, okay, what, what next? Because there is so much healing. Healing in that. Yerasimos 00:57:32.660 - 00:58:25.120 Do you find that issues with, let's say, the healing world, the therapeutic world, that what you're talking about here is that, like, you're taking your experience and you're focusing on action. That very often it's like, no, let me just go sit every week in someone's chair and just talk about the same thing over and over again. Which I think can have its benefit at times. But there has to be the action piece. It can't just be like, this happened to me. I'm just healing. I can't do the next thing until I heal this thing, until I put it back together. I have to put it back together. Then I can go on with my life and find a partner or create a business or do the next thing. And it's like, well, the healing comes with. Also with the doing. Sure, there might be some stuff you have to do to support your. Like, try this modality, etc, but like, it just feels like there has to be movement. Kate 00:58:25.680 - 00:58:26.080 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:58:26.080 - 00:58:26.560 You know? Kate 00:58:26.960 - 01:01:40.080 Yeah, no, that's like. It's. I like to call it kind of just like channeling it into. Into. Yeah. Some sort of movement momentum. Because otherwise it is. It does start to eat us alive and we get anxious and overthinking and I'm very. And that's why I try to be. And not in a showy, performative way, but if I'm having a hard day and I'm. That's cr. Like, and I see a rainbow and I'm just talking about, like. Because people will see that vulnerability of like, oh, that's grieving daughter. And then the next day they can see me on stage in a keynote in front of a few thousand. You can do both and be both and have the whole experience. We've done, like, you know, I don't go on stage trying to bore my eyes out. I always make sure and ground myself before I do, like, my actual keynotes. But I think it's. It's both. And I've. I have gone to therapy after mum died, particularly I was suffering nervous dysregulation, shakes, PTSD style symptoms. So I did go for that and I did the. I think. Is it emdr? I think that's the right. Yeah, like, kind of therapy to help with some of that healing. So there's definitely a place for it. But you've eventually got to get to that point of like, okay, what now what Literally now what? Like, what am I gonna choose to do to with this? And trust me, it's tempting. Sometimes people stay in quote unquote victim mode because they're trying to punish the person that did it to that. Like, you know, that idea of like, oh, but if I find joy again, it's like I'm saying what happened was okay or that I'm at peace. And it's like, no, it's not condemning or saying it was okay what happened. It's just not letting what happened have a say over who you become and where, where it leads you. And yeah, I think there's a lot of healing for people who can go through a hard thing and then whether it's to mentor someone. I know people have made like jewelry from certain things. It's. I really believe at our core as humans, we are creators. We're not meant to spectate the world and sit back. We're not. We've been given, you know, a brilliant mind and two hands and feet for a reason. And I think we've just got to look at the world. Like, in my talks I speak of, Mum used to take the most random ingredients because she was always working and wouldn't have much in the fridge. And she'd just make the most delicious meal for us kids growing up. And I, you know, I was like, how do you, how do you do that? Like, I'm, I can't. She said, I don't know. I just look at what there is and think, what can I make from this? And I think that I'm like, that is so instinct. In art and in cooking, we just look at raw ingredients and think, you know, what can I, what can I make from this? What could I create? And so eventually you've got to go through the messy healing and then you've got to ask yourself that, that question, what could I make? And going to build the thing that only you can build because of what you've lived. That's, that's kind of how I, I view it. As Frankel once said, it's not so much what we expect from life, but what life expects from us. So,. Joel 01:01:42.320 - 01:01:49.280 Yeah, our good friend Nash Nash Mackie, another Aussie legend. He says, from the mess comes the message. Kate 01:01:51.550 - 01:01:52.350 You see Ozzy? Joel 01:01:52.670 - 01:01:56.590 Yeah, Tasmanian. But he's been here a couple times as well. Kate 01:01:57.470 - 01:02:03.150 Has he? Even better. That's where my husband and I have said we'd love to move if we ever go back to Australia. I love Tasmania. Joel 01:02:03.870 - 01:02:17.150 Wow. Yeah, I've never. I've never been there, but I've heard similar things. For sure. We're actually going back to Australia for the first time in four years, actually. Can't be saying that's a secret. So we're surprising Alyssa's family. So, Ryan, when you hear that, cut that out. Yerasimos 01:02:19.570 - 01:02:21.890 That's good to know. Dude. I didn't even. I didn't even know that,. Joel 01:02:24.050 - 01:02:28.690 You know, my family would be listening to this episode anyway, or this podcast. But, you know, just in case. Kate 01:02:29.010 - 01:02:31.010 You never know, though. It takes a friend of a friend. Joel 01:02:32.850 - 01:02:37.090 Social media leave an Easter egg in there for someone to find it. That's funny. Kate 01:02:37.810 - 01:02:38.770 Oh, dear. Joel 01:02:39.410 - 01:03:22.880 Honestly, like, I'm just so appreciative of you and who you are, and you're just the ultimate embodiment of so much of what we speak about and, you know, so much of the ideas and the philosophies that really sit at the core of this podcast and, and our work, you know, and just the strength in action. And like, I think what's made me most emotional and hit me the hardest is witnessing your strength and just witnessing the maturity of your soul. Because it's just. It's. Honestly, it's. It's. It's all. It's real, awe inspiring, just witnessing you communicate the way that you do right now, even just a year and so on from your mom's death, like, part of me is, like, just blown away for real. Yerasimos 01:03:23.440 - 01:04:12.120 And to be so real about it, too, as opposed to. I'm just reporting this stuff that happened to me because you get that too. You get people who can just, like, report the facts. But, like, there's a human being here that has been through it. That is, you know, that is. Like you said earlier, it's like you can move through different states. That's what integration is. That's what wholeness is. The fluidity to communicate, to be sad one day and then be happy and to be okay. And that's the. That's the issue I have with. With so many people project on others, like they're not grieving how they should be grieving. You know, you see that I feel like often in, like, the people, public figures that go through something as well and everyone's just like, has their opinion. Like, you're allowed to experience joy. You're allowed to, you know, experience sweetness and bliss. Even though you're going through such horrible things. Kate 01:04:12.520 - 01:06:10.780 Yeah, we just. It's the space for the end. Like, I can feel joy and grief and for me now, like, it's. I don't know. And I'm still early days in. Like, I know the grief journey because. Yeah, you're right, Joel. It's only been about a year. And so I think I'm in some ways handling it better because I've gone through it before and in some ways it's a lot harder because, yeah, it's just like, oh, it's so, so un. Unfair. But I, I have the playful side of me and all of that. It's. It's slowly coming back around. But I will admit that it's. I still. I can be laughing and all of that and you might be able to relate through the loss of your dad, but it's. It's still there. You still feel it. Like, it's. I don't know that my. For me, I don't know what it is, but my chest and my solar plex and through here, I probably have never. Since the moment I heard Mum has died, I don't think I've ever fully been able to relax. And so that. I think I want to be able to say perhaps 10 years from now down the track, because it's kind of like where I said we were with my sister and then mom was suddenly killed. I want to feel that little bit lighter through here again. And I think that's just the healing that, that, that is to come. But it still doesn't mean that I, yeah, can't be badass on stage, have a good laugh, joke around and remember, like, I always tell people, we all die naked. Like, let's not take ourselves too seriously here. I've. I've learned that the hard way. I think we all tend to take ourselves too seriously and life not seriously enough. Like, oh, we've got to have it all together. And then we don't take the fact that life's this fragile gift that can be stolen from us at any moment. So stop overthinking it. You know, be kind, have fun. And yeah, like you said, love on your loved ones as much as you can. Joel 01:06:11.340 - 01:06:35.590 Yeah, it's interesting. Like, yeah, even like post tragedy, like, the judgments from other people, like, on how you show up on social media. Oh, my God, I can't believe she's like, out Doing that thing, like, two weeks after, you know, this thing happened or that thing happened. It's like. It's kind of crazy, this psychological tiptoe that someone in that position would have to make just to try. Appease the crowd. Yerasimos 01:06:35.590 - 01:06:36.470 Everybody, Attention. Joel 01:06:36.470 - 01:06:37.350 Yeah, exactly. Yerasimos 01:06:37.750 - 01:06:45.350 Appease everyone and how they think should act. It's like, yeah, it's like, let's get the. The two middle fingers up again. Like, I'm just gonna live my life. And. Kate 01:06:45.930 - 01:08:15.210 Yeah. Yeah, I think it's. It's hard. And I do my best to not read too many comments or whatnot, but I will say for every hater out there, I've had some beautiful support through my social media community. In fact, some of the people. It's interesting as everyone rushes around you when it first happens. Oh, I'm here if you need anything. And then, boom, a few months later, they've. They've disappeared. But I've had some people that I haven't perhaps really met in person, but they send the, like, how are you going? Really? Like, messages and things like that, that I'm not faking it on. Like, I can be fine and have this conversation, but when someone adds that, really to the how are you? Part, like, gosh, it feels so sane because, you know, like, how am I really. You know what? I'm. I'm okay, but a little tired. Didn't sleep great. Miss, you know, the hell out of my mom. I watched the sunrise and cried today, like, having those real conversations. But, yeah, I mean, I. A few years out into Nicole's foundation, I had someone reach out online, being like, your sister visited me and told me that you need to let her go and move on. It's too much. And I'm like, who are you? No, I feel it in my soul, what's right for me and my connection with my sister. So they're always gonna. Oh, dad said people thought we did it too soon after Nicole died. We should have let her lay longer before we did anything. And even with this law change stuff or the. Like, some people, like, have, so. Oh, it's just the way things are, and you just need to move on. Yerasimos 01:08:15.610 - 01:08:25.290 Yeah. We got so many. We got so many great quotes in this episode. Here's another one. What is it? Opinions are, like, Everyone has one. Kate 01:08:25.530 - 01:08:27.050 My dad says that all the time. Yerasimos 01:08:28.490 - 01:08:34.810 You know, like. And you hit the nail on the head. Like, you got to sit with yourself and be with yourself and your heart and your truth. Kate 01:08:35.290 - 01:08:35.650 Yeah. Yerasimos 01:08:35.650 - 01:08:37.450 On how you. And then you live from that place. Joel 01:08:37.760 - 01:08:38.200 Like, you can't. Kate 01:08:38.200 - 01:08:45.520 Yeah, yeah. And, and what someone thinks of how you're handling your grief tells me more about their relationship with grief. Joel 01:08:46.080 - 01:08:46.560 Yes. Yerasimos 01:08:46.960 - 01:08:48.480 Yeah, exactly. Kate 01:08:49.040 - 01:08:49.440 Yeah. Joel 01:08:49.440 - 01:08:49.760 Yeah. Kate 01:08:49.760 - 01:08:50.080 So. Yerasimos 01:08:50.480 - 01:09:21.080 And you probably. No, I was gonna say you probably experienced like so many people, you tell this story a lot or even in the beginning. Like how some people relate and how people can't even just be with you. They just need to like, say things because they're uncomfortable with silence. Like, you've probably experienced the whole range of different people and how they relate to grief or a tragedy and their own stuff and like shoving tissues in your face. Stop crying and be. Everything's going to be okay. And you're like, just, I'm allowed to have feelings. Just sit with me and shut up. Kate 01:09:24.600 - 01:10:23.650 Yes. Yeah, it's. It's been a roller coaster for sure. But I have to say, like, there's been some gems that have. Have come out and come around, but they're often the ones that have gone through real themselves. And for those who are kind of saying the naive things and because they've kind of not really lost someone or gone through trauma or tragedy before I try and remember, like, look, before I'd gone through all this, I probably would have been one of those well intended yet naive person saying things that were kind of. Yeah. A bit out of line or not so helpful. So I try and be like, just like me if I had to be, you know, had their upbringing and not gone through this. And then I. When people like, I don't know what to say though. I'm like, say that it's perfect. When you say I don't know what to say, I'm like, oh, thank God. Because whatever you're about to say probably wouldn't help anyway. So at least we're being real here. When it's like, hey, I wanted to check in. I'm not sure what to say. I just wanted you to know I'm thinking of exactly. Love you. Yeah. Yeah. Yerasimos 01:10:23.650 - 01:10:24.850 That just feels more real. Kate 01:10:25.340 - 01:10:25.660 Yeah. Yerasimos 01:10:26.060 - 01:10:28.900 And there is nothing to say. Very often, like you just. Kate 01:10:28.900 - 01:10:29.340 Yeah. Yerasimos 01:10:30.300 - 01:10:31.100 Like, yeah. Kate 01:10:31.580 - 01:10:31.940 Yeah. Joel 01:10:31.940 - 01:10:38.540 Well, we're so desperate for solutions and sometimes the situation just has. Doesn't have a solution, you know, it doesn't. Yerasimos 01:10:38.540 - 01:10:39.900 Like, it's like, I see you. Kate 01:10:40.620 - 01:10:41.060 Yeah. Yerasimos 01:10:41.060 - 01:10:53.740 I know you're going through something. My heart breaks for you. Like, call me. I'm here. Just so you know, I'm really here. And then maybe check in again. I'm really here, just so you know, like. Kate 01:10:54.500 - 01:12:15.490 Yeah. Where my husband's like, he's been so incredible too, to help. Like, I think that's why, honestly, I don't know how I would have coped without having a husband who's gone through things himself and really kind of understands the, the grief. And, you know, it's hard for him. He's watched for a good couple months there. I was a shell of myself and there was barely a day where I wasn't in a complete breakdown. And I think it's been hard for him at times. I learned a lot about grief and how vocal it actually is. So the tribes, ancient tribes, used to really let it out and I find that so helpful to scream and chant and get all my grief out. But I know for him, he's like, oh my gosh, he's in the middle of a mill. So he's kind of had to learn how to let me have that time and space while balancing being there for me and also balancing his natural reaction as a husband to see that kind of violence happen to his mother in law, watch his daughter, his wife shatter and not want to go do something about it. And so I've had to talk him off the edge there too of like, we're going to settle this the right way. Because it's hard, I think, to, for a male to not have that protective instinct. Um, so. Joel 01:12:15.890 - 01:12:20.530 Yeah, well, I know he and I were both thinking, want to go kill that motherfucker the moment you shared the story. Kate 01:12:22.530 - 01:12:35.730 Yeah, yeah. It's definitely been moments where I'm like, that doesn't solve anything. Only more problems come from that one, babe. But I. It's definitely been hard at times for sure. Yerasimos 01:12:37.170 - 01:13:53.590 I mean, again, the be human and to have to navigate these different parts of us, there's so much. That's it. I mean, you know, one moment, oh, I have compassion for this person because they haven't experienced what I've experienced. Then like, just shut up. Just shut up. Shut the up. No. You know, so. But it is that dance and how do we navigate, how do we hold space for it in as conscious way as possible? Yeah, sometimes not conscious, sometimes we flip and flop and we're like, okay, here's. Let me, let me move through this. Let me see how I can experience this and hold this. But I don't know, I just like reality. I like being human. I. These are the people I like to connect with. I'm so grateful for your story, for you being here and being real and sharing all of it, because that's the truth. I think a lot of times people are just like, I can't share this aspect of me. What are People going to think and like, yes, okay, not everyone has lost their mother and their sister, but people have dealt with things tragedy. And it's like, it's like we need more connection, not more isolation. We need to be with one another, we need to share stories, we need to sing together. We need to use our voices in the ways that you're talking about. Like, that's. There's power in that. You know, there's healing in that. It's not. We're not meant to be shut off. We're not meant to not talk about this stuff. Kate 01:13:53.990 - 01:15:08.080 Yes, yes. And, well, thank you so much for the, for the opportunity. And when I saw the podcast was called Here for the Truth, I was like, yes, that's. That's what I'm here for as well. And I think if we can share it more real about all the mess and the fighting and the tormale that you go through in these moments, I think that also normalizes, like, oh, no, that's not you not coping often. That's you healing and coping. And that is the process of it being messy and forever having to hold space for both. And I just think it's typically on a spectrum for me. Some days I'm more towards the trauma side of the grief and the heaviness of it, and other days I'm more towards the like, integration and just like, you know, feeling a sunrise in a whole new way because it's so much more spiritual for me now and all of that. But it goes back and forth and I think that's what people need to allow more space for. Just there. Yeah, they're humanness. And I appreciate these conversations because they go deep and they're not a 15 second reel where it ties everything up in a neat bow in 15 seconds. And then you're like, well, why is my life still a mess? And then next thing you know, you're judging yourself. Joel 01:15:08.480 - 01:15:09.680 Yeah, definitely. Yerasimos 01:15:10.560 - 01:15:10.920 Yeah. Joel 01:15:10.920 - 01:15:34.700 I mean, it's like just to be able to be attuned to like yourself on each day and what's present for each day, whether there's energy there, whether there's more integration needed or self compassion or self acceptance and being able to navigate whatever's present each time you wake up, you know, and not having. Not every day having to feel like it's the. It's the same or it shouldn't be a certain way, I think is a. Is a powerful thing. Kate 01:15:35.660 - 01:16:04.250 Yeah, it's a lot. I mean, it takes me more to get out of bed every morning, I can tell you. Like, I Used to be pretty good, but now I just lay there with my pup and because it kind of when you wake up, it hits you all over again. Or my dreams. I have some weird dreams that have happened since and some are traumatic, some are just strange. And I just lie in bed and, you know, old me would be like, well, you should have been up by 6am or whatever. But then I'm like, I am here snuggling my puppy dog. Yerasimos 01:16:04.250 - 01:16:04.650 Yeah. Kate 01:16:04.650 - 01:16:48.020 The house is quiet and my soul must need this or else, you know what? I would have gotten up. But if I need to be here right now, just snuggling and taking it slow. And I can also over schedule myself, like just this earlier this year between like February to April, I had 41 flights that I was on. I was here, there and everywhere. So I realized, like, I kind of overdid it then and I, you know, maybe it was a part of me of like busy, busy, busy. But again, I'm like, well, if that's what I needed for that phase of my grief, like, I get it. But I have tried to slow it down a little now and really allow myself to, to be, to be more present and yeah, have time to hug the puppies and hang with my husband,. Yerasimos 01:16:49.080 - 01:16:50.520 You know, enjoy those moments. Kate 01:16:51.000 - 01:16:51.720 Oh, yeah. Yerasimos 01:16:51.720 - 01:16:52.760 Enjoy those moments. Joel 01:16:53.640 - 01:16:55.960 So what's. How do you. Sorry. Go? You go. Yerasimos 01:16:57.480 - 01:17:17.680 No, I don't know if I'm breaking up. Well, I guess I. What I was curious about because I know you give a lot of talks and you're flying here and there and I'm sure you tell your story often. It's probably different every time. It's not the same exact story. But how do you even relate to that? To like keeping it real and not just like, oh, I gotta go tell the story of what happened? Like, what is that process like for you? Kate 01:17:17.680 - 01:20:33.200 Also, I think for me it's those little moments that I shared with you. Like the 3:37, the sunrise. Like, I can quickly go back into that so it does feel more real and genuine. And it doesn't just feel like storytelling for me because those little details take me right back into it. And, you know, I've, as I learned about, got into the world of public speaking. You want to show people your scar and not your wound. And so you want to have healed it enough where they can see it and believe it's real and you've gone through it. But yeah, you're not like mauling on stage. So for the first fair one, like, I actually. So Mum died in May I had two keynotes I was meant to do the next week, which I unfortunately felt terrible, but I was like, there's no way I'm going to be able to get up and do those. But I do also speak with youth. And so I went back to Australia in August. So I sat about three, four months after Mum had died and I just decided, like, I'm not talking about Mum or integrating any of that yet. It wasn't until I found a way to kind of tell the story. So it was about. My friend hosted an event and I knew she'd hold me with love and space no matter what I took up on stage. So that's when I first started also integrating Mum. And it was such a beautiful event and they all cheered for me when I spoke about the advocacy side of things and everything. But I have to read the event and read the audience because I. I understand, like, I've got a heavy story to share and so it's finding that balance of vulnerability without people feeling overwhelmed by the heaviness of it. And so I'm. To be honest, I. I'm still learning that in real time and I think it'll evolve as I go. I feel like I've got a fairly good balance now, but just because it is so recent. But I do bring Mum in, but I let them fall in love with her and hear about all the work she did with the charity and then just like, oh, my God, I'm going through this nightmare again and here's how I'm living it, this message again in real time. But if anything, I just hope, kind of like you mentioned, if I'm standing up there and I'm doing my thing and I'm still living and breathing and laughing in a way, hopefully that even says more than my words could, could say that the human. If you allow yourself to break open and piece things back together little by little, like, we are so much more resilient than we give ourselves credit for. And so I think that gives them hope of, like, oh, shit, no matter what you really go through in life, you can rebuild. And, yeah, I don't know if I'd find peace again. I don't know how. How I have peaceful moments. I wouldn't say my soul is at peace yet, but I do know I'd sign myself up. If I pictured my soul being like, you're going to be the daughter to Julie and the sister of Nicole and here's how you're going to lose them, I'd say, I'm all in. Because the privilege of being loved by them and raised by them and everything. I'd be like, all right, so we're gonna. We're gonna go deep on this life, but the love will go even deeper, and we'll get you through it. Yerasimos 01:20:33.200 - 01:21:04.570 So, yeah, you know, you had said something earlier in the. In the. In our chat about, like, well, I don't want to live forever because I'm, you know, and that means I want to see. I want to see them again, you know, and interesting enough, last night I was doing some work on my computer. I'm like, let me just put on a movie in the background that I'd seen many times before. And I put on Gladiator with Russell Crowe and Jiminzo. And they have that scene, you know, where he's. I think he's saying that is he lost his wife and his child. Joel 01:21:04.890 - 01:21:05.330 And he. Yerasimos 01:21:05.330 - 01:21:29.720 And Jimin Hunza goes, you think you'll see them again? And he goes, yes. And then Jim and Hunzo goes, but not yet. And it's like, when I think about you and your story and your advocacy work and all that, it's like, well, you will see them again. But what you're doing, how you're living the aliveness, sharing your story, sharing your vulnerability, like this. This is your mission. This is your gift. And so I don't. Just made me think of that, you. Kate 01:21:29.720 - 01:23:01.550 Know, like, yeah, it's. It's hard not to, because part of me, and I guess it's the Aussie in us, Joe, a little bit like, tooting our own horn or making a sound, you know, we're used to just like, she'll be right or like, Tall Poppy syndrome or whatever. But I. I do have to tell myself sometimes, like, there's got to be a reason I'm still here. And perhaps it is the reason, like, my soul has more work to do Earthside before I join them wherever they're at. And, yeah, not trying to say, oh, so I was more important. It's just like, I must have signed myself up for that, for that mission. And to be a Fitzy girl is like, because my maiden name is Fitzsimons. It's just like, it's the greatest honor. And I really. As much as I would give anything to hear their voice again, I can always. And perhaps you found this too, with your dad. If you need advice, you just ask the question and you already. You know what they would say and how they'd. How they'd guide you through it. So I find I really just come back to, like, I've got more work to do here. And I just have to learn how to communicate with them in a. In a different language, which is for me. Rainbows, sunrises, different things. I even get chills like every. So, like often when I say or like when I'm thinking of certain things and. Or certain songs. Come on, you know, it's pretty. They're pretty creative when they want to be. Yerasimos 01:23:01.630 - 01:23:39.600 And it's also like your relationship to the thing. Because we don't know. We don't know if the. If the thing is our dad or our sister talking to us. But like, I think shortly after we moved my mom out here, you know, she would sit outside and this, this one hummingbird showed up and she comes to me. She's like, I think Spiro, come to me. Because my mom's Greek, so she has a thick accent. She's like, you know what I do? I. I ask the bird if it. If you are spiro, come again. 12 O' clock the next day. And then the bird would come back the next day. And so she's just like. Has this relationship with this hummingbird that, you know, and it's like, I don't. I don't know. Kate 01:23:39.840 - 01:23:40.320 Yeah. Yerasimos 01:23:40.720 - 01:23:54.080 What's real, what's not. But it's like, it's that the imagination and the hope and the connection and, and your soul and your relationship to it is what matters and how it makes you feel. And I don't know, I just feel like. Find those moments. Like, it's. Kate 01:23:54.240 - 01:23:55.400 Of course it's. Yerasimos 01:23:55.400 - 01:23:57.120 It's pretty. It's pretty powerful. Kate 01:23:57.520 - 01:24:17.270 Yeah, for sure. I mean, we don't know which is the beautiful thing in that is that we get to choose. Like, whether you're saying it isn't that that's a choice. Like, you're making that up as much as you're saying it is that. And I like. People call you crazy. I'm like, you know what's crazy is we're on this rock flying through space, which no one knows. Like, it's. It's all crazy if you think about it. Yerasimos 01:24:17.270 - 01:24:23.630 So it's like there's so much mystery that we have no effing clue what the heck all this. Yeah, to some degree. Kate 01:24:24.030 - 01:25:05.800 I don't even really know what consciousness is yet. Like, like, let's just let it be. Let it be crazy and let it be true. Like, I, and I always just say, find, like, believe whatever brings you peace and helps you be a kind person and helps you be brave in life. Like those three. Like, if you. Whatever those beliefs are because you know, I had some people come with me with religion after my sister first died. I was like, hey, I went to an Anglican, I've been there, I've done that. That's not my style. I'd say I'm spiritual, not so much religious. But I'm not against whatever you believe at that helps you. But here's really what, what's helped, what's helped me and yeah, yeah, what's, what's. Joel 01:25:05.800 - 01:25:10.760 On the horizon for you? Where are you pouring your energy primarily from here? Kate 01:25:12.200 - 01:27:11.300 Well, I really the, the keynote, speaking and getting out there and being in person, sharing stories and teaching is like really what's lighting me up at the moment. So I lost, as I said, a bit of steam when mum died last year. But I started 2026 and I was like, this is it, this is my reset, this is my year where I'm going to go hard at it. So I poured my money into like a new website and I just started my new, I just launched my new speaking reel and saying yes to every opportunity that I get there. I just did my TedX talk which is a really cool experience there. And yeah, I just want to continue to travel and share my story because it is. I was actually thinking about it yesterday. I got a little emotional. I'm like speaking when I'm on stage. I don't know if you guys have something that you do where it feels like a spiritual experience because it's like this is my calling and really where I belong and where I'm meant to be and it's not, it's just as I said, I think it's such a incredible thing that you can walk into a room all as strangers and then by the end of it we're crying, we're hugging, we're laughing, we're all sharing stories that probably even people who have known you for years might not know yet. Like it's just kind of, I think it's such a privilege to get to do what I do. So I would just love to continue to just spread that. And I actually, you know, it's so random and I'm so grateful for this opportunity but I'm actually speaking at the Wyoming Governor's Business Forum in November when the governor speaks. I was like, wow, 10 year old me growing up in the beaches of Sydney, Australia. You one time told her she'd be speaking there, she'd be like, what the. But I am so grateful. My Wyoming's really kind of embraced me and I've met so many awesome people around the state. And I'm getting some good opportunities here because I think they're like, wait, what? There's a speaker that lives in Wyoming that's. Yerasimos 01:27:11.860 - 01:27:15.940 There's probably not a lot of Australian people in Wyoming either, is there or are there? Kate 01:27:15.940 - 01:28:13.190 You know, I think I'm yet to meet one. Someone said, I was talking to her and her sheep had got shaved or sheared by an Aussie. I was like, oh, my God, it was an Aussie in town because he came to visit. But no, there's not too many of us, so it kind of makes it a bit of a, like, oh, that's. That's interesting. But the fact that they're willing to have me a part of something, that forum is very well respected. So super grateful for that opportunity. And yeah, it's kind of crazy to think, like, 10 years ago I hadn't even met my now husband yet and the idea of living in America was not even on the radar. So it is kind of cool to think what the next 10 years might look like. And it's probably going to break my heart in ways that I would never want. But I also think there's going to be some adventures in there that are cooler than I can imagine right now. Joel 01:28:13.190 - 01:28:18.630 So, yeah, you're from. You're from like Doll's Point, San Susie originally. Kate 01:28:19.190 - 01:28:22.230 Yeah. You want me to put my address out there? Joel 01:28:22.310 - 01:28:26.310 Well, I'm from Sylvania Waters, so, like, we're neighbors. Kate 01:28:26.550 - 01:28:29.100 What year did you graduate? Are we the same time? Joel 01:28:29.580 - 01:28:30.860 2007. Kate 01:28:31.660 - 01:28:33.660 Oh, I'm 09, so we're close. Joel 01:28:33.740 - 01:28:36.860 Oh, cool. I went to Inabara in Bangor. Newman. I. Kate 01:28:37.660 - 01:28:41.460 That's where I did my TEDX talk was at Inabara at the auditorium there. Joel 01:28:41.460 - 01:28:42.300 Are you serious? Kate 01:28:42.620 - 01:28:43.020 Yeah. Joel 01:28:43.020 - 01:28:45.740 That is insane. What the hell? Kate 01:28:46.940 - 01:28:53.820 I love that you connected that. Yeah, I was just at Inabara in April because they would. Did they have that really fancy auditorium? Yerasimos 01:28:53.820 - 01:28:54.340 No, it was. Joel 01:28:54.340 - 01:28:57.900 No, it was not built like it is now when I was there. But yeah. Kate 01:28:58.380 - 01:29:02.140 Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, I'm a good old Dame Bank. Do you know what we were called? Joel 01:29:02.220 - 01:29:02.780 Yep. Kate 01:29:03.340 - 01:29:36.820 Well, we were Watermelons because we had the pink shirt and the green. Green skirt. So, yeah, we were good old watermelons. But yeah, wow, we're super close. And yeah, I am Dolls Point area. So that's where I go back and hang when I go see dad. He turned 70 in about three weeks. So I'll go back to celebrate the big seven zero with him. He didn't want to do much, but I was like, mom, Wouldn't want you to. To celebrate. So I've got big shoes to fill because she knew hospitality like nothing else. But, yeah, I'll be back there soon. Joel 01:29:36.900 - 01:29:50.620 Amazing. Yeah. We, me and Alyssa spend so much time there, especially when we're first dating. Cafes around there, walking. I spent a lot of time in the water there as well. Jet skis, boats, like. I know. No. Well, it's a beautiful, beautiful spot for sure. Kate 01:29:51.500 - 01:29:52.060 Yeah. Joel 01:29:52.620 - 01:30:10.940 Kate, I can't tell you how grateful I am that you joined us on here for the truth. You've shared your story, you've impacted me in a pretty powerful way, and I'm sure you're going to impact everyone that gets the chance to listen to this as well. In closing, how would you like to direct our audience? Like, how can they find you, connect with you, etc. Kate 01:30:12.620 - 01:31:24.550 Yeah. Well, thank you so much again for this opportunity. And to a beautiful wife, Alyssa, not just for making this connection happen, but she also, I know, continues to honor my sister and remember her. So that really means so much. Yeah. For anyone who's listening that has any question, feedback, want to share your story? I love hearing those. Or just want to learn more about what I do. So my website is my name, so it's kategladden.com that's Gladden with an I. And then I'm most social on Instagram. Typically that's just at Kategladden. And I would say there's a bit on Facebook, you'll find me on there and LinkedIn just under my name. But yeah, please do not be shy. I think you can tell I don't mind chat, but I also don't mind going deep. And if you're going through something where it feels like no one really understands what you're going through, please reach out. And if any of this has piqued your own desire or curiosity to want to build something meaningful for what you've gone through, whether it's write your first book, start some coaching or speaking or advocacy work, please reach out. If you'd like some mentoring with that. I do coaching to build from what you've been through. Joel 01:31:24.870 - 01:31:28.710 Amazing. Thank you so much. Everyone else, thank you for listening.