Satsang In the Company of the Highest Truth

Drew (satsang) 00:00:00.240 - 00:00:00.560 Foreign. Joel 00:00:04.720 - 00:00:44.260 Inspiration from a diverse array of musical traditions, Satsang sound is characterized by rich harmonies, infectious rhythms, and thought provoking lyrics that resonate with audiences across the globe. With roots in the mountains of Montana, his music reflects the natural beauty and spiritual depth of his surroundings, while also addressing contemporary issues and themes. At the heart of Satsang's music is a message of unity, self work, and mindfulness. Through the uplifting melodies and introspective lyrics, the music encourages listeners to reflect on their own experiences, cultivate positive change, and embrace the interconnectedness of all beings. Drew, thank you so much for being here, man. We appreciate it. Drew (satsang) 00:00:44.500 - 00:00:46.580 Yeah, happy to be here, dude. Joel 00:00:46.580 - 00:01:15.430 First and foremost, man, huge fan. I think I first came across your music in 2020, and yeah, bro, I just love what you put out. I love the melodies. Everything in that bio is absolutely true. The way we always like to kick these kind of conversations off, man, is we really want to dive deep into you. Your personal hero's journey, your story, the major rites of passage. What kind of. How does that start? Where does that begin? And what kind of led you into the man that you are today and the passions that you have today? Drew (satsang) 00:01:17.670 - 00:03:46.520 I had a really rough upbringing, A lot of abuse. I just got a real set of parents. Yeah, my dad was super abusive, the dad that raised me. And I just. From a really young age, man, I just knew that I was. I wasn't really interested in. In the stuff that everyone else seemed to be interested in, like, safety was not really a concern of mine. Security was not really a concern of mine. I started experimenting with psychedelics at a pretty young age. So I think that kind of contributed to this thing. I just have always kind of been really curious about what the we're all doing here. You know, what's the purpose of all of this and why does anyone go through anything? And music has just always been my thing. I just have always really, really loved it and. And felt it very deeply. And I knew that that's what I wanted to do. And then, you know, struggled with addiction for a long time. And then in the process of getting sober, I ended up taking this. This trip to. To Nepal. And it was kind of on that trip where I was like, you know, what's the move? Like? I had never really made money, and then I had finally kind of made this chunk of money doing this seasonal job, and the plan was to get like a reliable vehicle, but I spent the money to go to Nepal. Yeah, so while I was in Nepal, it was kind of like, well, what's what's the move now? You know, I was, I think, 25. So it was. It just. I was kind of feeling the pressure of, like, I. I need to be aimed at something. And, you know, it just kind of hit me clear as day. Like, it's music. You know, I need to pursue music. And I had no idea what that would look like or where it would take me. And I had written, you know, a chunk of songs while I was in Nepal, and soon after I got back, and, you know, my plan when I started was like, I'm gonna try as hard as I can for a year and, you know, see if I've made any progress. And then I've. I've been doing that for, like, 12 years now. Joel 00:03:48.280 - 00:03:49.720 Wow, man, that's dope. Drew (satsang) 00:03:49.960 - 00:03:52.000 Yeah. What was your. Yerasimos 00:03:52.000 - 00:03:58.680 What was your first introduction to. To music, like, in terms of instruments and inspirations and things of that nature? Drew (satsang) 00:03:59.240 - 00:04:29.380 Yeah, it's. It's funny. I was just listening to a friend of mine. My friend Jared was just on a podcast, and we have so many eerie similarities. But, um, you know, I grew up. My mom was always playing country music. My mom loved music, so she was always playing country music and always singing in the car, you know. And then my dad was kind of the, like, Brian Adams, Kenny Loggins, that kind of era of 90s music, you know, Singer, songwriter. Yerasimos 00:04:29.540 - 00:04:29.900 Yeah. Drew (satsang) 00:04:29.900 - 00:05:36.190 Yeah. I feel like my music identity kind of, you know, my neighborhood that I grew up in introduced me to hip hop, but more of the more mainstream, like Nas, Tupac, like, the stuff that was kind of big in the 90s, you know, the, like, real gangsta. But when I found skateboarding, that was really where I. Where I started kind of forming my own taste of music. Because there were these videos called 41 1. There would be, like 10 to 15 parts in every VHS. And there was always, like, the punk rock skater. There was always the. The skater that had, like, some weird underground hip hop that you'd never heard before. That was probably one of his homies that made that music. And then there was always a dude that would. You know, his part was like, Danzig or the Rolling Stones. So it was really like skateboarding and buying these $5,411-Skate VHS tapes is, like, what introduced me to a lot of the music that was, like, super formative for me, which was mostly hip hop and in punk rock. Joel 00:05:37.310 - 00:05:57.990 Yeah, cool, man. So, like, I'm curious, like, what kind of, like, drew you to, I guess, Nepal to start on, like, the spiritual, philosophical side of. Of your evolution? Was it, like, I Don't know what the. Is going on. So I'm gonna go to Nepal and see if something clicks there or something. Like, I'm curious about the. The origins of your, you know, spirit, so to speak, and to pick that. Yerasimos 00:05:57.990 - 00:05:59.990 Place as opposed to some other place. Drew (satsang) 00:06:00.310 - 00:09:36.310 In retrospect, dude, I believe it was God. So, like, I was, for a good substantial amount of time, man, I was just dirt bagging, you know, rock climbing and skiing absolutely ruled my existence. And in the shoulder seasons, meaning spring and fall, when it wasn't snowy enough to ski or it wasn't warm enough to climb, I would do alpine climbs. So that was kind of my whole world was. Was, was rock climbing, alpine climbing and skiing. That was all I really gave a fuck about. And I worked at climbing an outdoor gear shop in this little mountain town called Red Lodge, Montana. And the shop was called Sylvan Peak. And there was this man that worked there named Pete. And he had been guiding trips in Nepal since like the early 90s, late 80s. So I had gotten back in October from doing this surveying work where I just made like. I think I made $7,000, which was like crazy to me. I made seven grand in two months, which is now like, you know, that's hilarious. But. But he had just gotten back. He did trips every fall and spring, and he had just gotten back from a trip. You know, we were homies. He. Pete was like 60 at the time, you know, but he would. That was my dog, dude. We would smoke joints together and stuff. He was like kind of a legend in my eyes, you know, he had successfully dirt bagged from 19 to like 60 and. And made it swing. Dude, like, had a pretty cool house and like, you know, had a cool truck. Like, he had, like, really had it dialed. And so he was showing me this map of Nepal and showing me pictures of the trip that he did with these people. And then he was like, the trip that I want to do. So typically, people will go to Namche, which is kind of like base camp for the Everest region, right? Everything starts in Namche, and then there's like these valleys. So people either go up to Everest Base Camp and come back, or they go up to Gokyo and then come back or Renjo and then come back. And Pete was lining out. This trip was like, what I would love to do, but no one will do it with me because it's so crazy is I want to do all three of these mountain passes. I want to go up this valley and then go over all three of these passes and Then back, and I was like, I'd do it with you, dude. And, you know, he's like. I was like, how much would it cost to do the whole trip? And he's $7,000, dude. He literally. He literally was like, somewhere between five and seven grand. That's dope. And I was like, when. When do you want to do it? You know? And he was like, well, the. The peak season to do it is, like, the beginning of April. I was like, let's go. I'll buy my ticket right now. And so I did. I bought my ticket that week, and then we spent the next, you know, six months preparing for this trip, and we went, and it was insane. And it was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. And it was. Yeah, I mean, it was definitely wasn't. I feel like sometimes, especially in, like, podcasts or interviews, I kind of idealize this trip and make it sound like this beautiful, amazing, spiritual thing. Which parts of it were. It was also like, I mean, dude, it sucked. There were parts of it that sucked, you know, being at 20, 000ft and, you know, yeah, I got edema on the trail. I got cerebral edema on the trip. And, like, you know, almost was like we were teeter tottering on the line of, like, should I get helicoptered back to Kathmandu or am I going to be okay? Like, you know, it was a grind, dude, but ultimately, I can look at it now, and it really was kind of the, like, the turning point for my life. Yerasimos 00:09:36.950 - 00:09:37.830 Yeah, I love. Drew (satsang) 00:09:37.830 - 00:09:38.550 I love that. Yerasimos 00:09:38.710 - 00:09:46.790 I love how things work out like that. I feel like Joel, myself, other people listening. Like, this idea where it's like, oh, hey, I just made this money. Drew (satsang) 00:09:47.270 - 00:09:48.350 Oh, cool, cool. Yerasimos 00:09:48.350 - 00:10:18.300 Now what? And then the stars align. Your homie is like, hey, there's this trip. And it's like, right around the exact amount of money. It's like when you're answering the call, you know, the certain things come and come into your space, and it's up to you to say yes or no. It's like, God presents this situation, and you either honor that calling or you're like, oh, no, no, I can't. I gotta save the 7,000. When it's like, wow, this seems like the perfect opportunity to spend this money on this epic adventure and see where it takes me from there. Drew (satsang) 00:10:18.620 - 00:11:24.240 Yeah, and it's. It's funny too, man, because it was not a popular decision at the time, you know, like my. My ex wife, you know, who I love very much. We're still homies. Me and her dad were really tight and I, you know, I didn't really have any mentors and her dad was kind of like my guy, you know, and he was not stoked about the decision, you know, because like when I met my ex wife, she had three kids from a previous marriage that were like 5, 7 and 8, 8, 9, you know, and there was kind of this thing of like, they all love me, but it was this like, when is he going to quit dirt bagging and like, you know, kind of make a move, get it together. So. Yeah, and I, you know, I had had four different vehicles that were made in 1988. So I think Tom, Tom was really, you know, hoping that I would get a reliable vehicle. Like he was like, that would be a solid start for you. And I didn't, you know, and then also I ate. My friend had made me a weed cookie for the trip and I ate it the morning of the flight. Joel 00:11:24.480 - 00:11:25.440 Oh my God. Drew (satsang) 00:11:25.600 - 00:11:49.290 I don't, I don't, I don't handle edibles well, you know, and I ate that guy. Like we woke up, you know, like 4:30 or whatever in this hotel, and I ate it and barely made it through security. But when we were sitting at the gate, the anxiety wave came on hard and I was like, you know, I just had my one pack. Joel 00:11:49.610 - 00:11:50.090 Yeah. Drew (satsang) 00:11:50.410 - 00:12:17.300 So I was like fully having this moment. Like, am I about to do this? Like I'm about to go to the other side of the planet, into the most remote, remote mountains on planet earth for six weeks? Like, this is what we're doing right now. And yeah, dude, there was, it was kind of 50, 50 there for about a half hour, dude, whether I was going to get on the plane or not, like I was that voice in my head that was like, dude, you could still bail. Was very strong. Obviously grateful I didn't, but. Yeah. Joel 00:12:18.420 - 00:12:22.300 That's insane, man. That's insane. So like moment of truth. What. Drew (satsang) 00:12:22.300 - 00:12:23.140 What year was that? Joel 00:12:23.140 - 00:12:24.340 What year was that, by the way? Drew (satsang) 00:12:25.220 - 00:12:33.940 That would have been 20, 2012 or 13, I think this the spring of 2013. Joel 00:12:34.580 - 00:12:45.530 Okay, cool. So you wrote Are you like was. Was Story of you your first record and you, you wrote some of those songs on that trip or the inspiration for some of those songs came through on the trip. Drew (satsang) 00:12:46.010 - 00:12:52.370 I wrote at least half of them on the trip and then the other ones pretty soon after I got home. Yeah. Joel 00:12:52.370 - 00:13:18.010 Yeah, cool. Like, I'm. I'm just curious, like, what is it that informs like your music, like philosophically or like spiritually, so to speak? So I've noticed this evolution, you know, started like super Eastern. Now it feels like it's coming more biblical, Western, so to speak. Like, what did you discover, like, early on where it's like, this is the direction in terms of lyrically and the message that I'm. That I'm putting through in the beginning, and then we'll track it through from there. Drew (satsang) 00:13:18.890 - 00:13:28.810 Yeah, well, I think in the beginning, you know, I always. I always say, you know, I found psychedelics in, like, Hunter Thompson way younger than I should have. Joel 00:13:30.410 - 00:13:31.370 How old were you? Drew (satsang) 00:13:31.930 - 00:16:13.900 Like, 14, 13? 14. You know, so there's not many, like, high school freshmen that, you know, are regularly doing LSD and have read every one of Hunter. Hunter S. Thompson's books. So for me, it started with this kind of like, Grateful Dead, playful approach to psychedelics of like, how weird can it get? And how. How can we, you know, what kind of situations can we get in and out of while in these completely ridiculously altered states? And then I found Ram Dass and. And that whole kind of movement of, you know, seeing guys that were once huge psychedelic advocates become. Be like, you actually don't need those. You know, there's another way. And so I just, like I said, I've always really been intrigued with what the hell we're all doing here. And, you know, the answer to that type of question is, is always spiritual. So I think early on, you know, there was always this kind of hodgepodge of. I really love the storytelling of. Of Hindu mythology and the analogies of all these different gods and goddesses. I just, you know, I don't believe that there was a, you know, an elephant man or a monkey man. But this idea of these. These kind of life lessons being taught through these characters, I thought was. It was really beautiful and interesting and. And then, you know, and then a lot of. Of Buddhists thing too. You know, I've experienced a lot of suffering in my life, and there was just a lot of Buddhist teachings that made a lot of sense to me of, of like. Well, yeah, of course, dude. You're a human being. That's what this thing is, is suffering. And how beautifully can you suffer? You know, how. How lightly can you suffer? Because suffering's coming, you know. And I think for me, there's also always been an undercurrent of. Of. Of Christian philosophy in there because my biological father was a. Was a preacher, and it was heaven. I would only spend, you know, a month with him in the summer. But he, you know, he was an interesting cat, and I learned a lot of Scripture and, you know, it was just always kind of a presence that was around and, you know, as I got older. Yeah, man, religion has just always been very interesting to me. I've, I've read, I've read, I've read a lot of religious texts. A lot of them. Joel 00:16:15.000 - 00:16:29.480 Do you, do you feel like, you know, the super difficult upbringing that you had kind of primed you to continue to ask those bigger questions and be as introspective as you are in that way. To be like, what the is this life? What is this existence? What are we doing? Drew (satsang) 00:16:30.760 - 00:17:24.669 Yeah, for sure. Because I think you, you either say that this is all happening to me or this is all happening for me. And you know, one of the things I really love, one of many things I really love about the Bible is all the people that God used had pretty rough goes. You know, there wasn't a lot of, there's not a lot of important characters in the Bible that were like, he was born to a great family and had a great set of parents and they were wealthy and well to do. And at 17, he began his, his journey with Christ. It was like, no, dude, they were like debt collectors and bad, bad boys. Bad boys, the apostles. So I think that for sure, you know, I think, I think that has always been in the back of my head of like, no, perhaps this is some grand preparation for what I'm actually called to do. Joel 00:17:25.469 - 00:17:43.440 Yeah, no. Thanks for sharing that, man. All right, so you get back from Nepal and you're like, all right, I want to try music for a year. So can you walk us through, like, what happens from there, like what your expectations were, like, how things kind of panned out initially when you started feeling like, oh, this might be a career. Drew (satsang) 00:17:44.720 - 00:20:22.860 Yeah, I didn't really know where to start, you know, so my buddy David played mandolin and he, he was the only person I knew that had been in a band that had ever even gone on tour. So we started playing and then we met this kid named Eric that went to Montana State University and he did like booking for university events and he wanted to try his hand at being a booking agent because he was putting on a bunch of local shows and was actually doing pretty well. This 20 year old kid was like booking pretty solid size shows here in Bozeman. And so this 20 year old kid became our agent and he would get us some, some pretty cool opening spots in Bozeman. But he put together a tour which was really us just playing three hour bar gigs all over the, the Rocky Mountain region for a month. It was really hard, bro. You know, if playing at your local bar isn't shitty enough, you know, being 20 hours from home and playing a shitty bar gig really sucks, you know? And then I. There's an artist named Tubby Love, whose music I always really loved. And he. I met him in Hawaii. We went out and played this festival for free. But I met Tubby and he came to Montana that next summer and did a couple shows with us. And. And he, on the ride back to Billings from Bozeman, he told me, was just like, dude, you need to get a band because your songs are really special, dude. They're really good. And hearing him say that, you know, I just admired him so much. I just thought he was such. Such a phenomenal musician, you know? So for Tubby to like my music was like. I was like, oh, okay. I wasn't. Because I wasn't sure if it was good. But if you're telling me it's good, I believe you. So then I kind of pivoted, you know. David had some health problems. He actually. He passed a few years ago. But David was just not. Not able to tour or really be reliable because of his health. So I put a band together and we just stayed busy, man. We played for nobody. But we just kept grinding in my head. I was like. My name was starting to kind of get thrown around in these circles of musicians that I wanted to play with. I started to be one or two people removed from artists that I really liked. Joel 00:20:23.020 - 00:20:24.740 Who. Who were those kinds of artists that. Drew (satsang) 00:20:24.740 - 00:20:37.020 You were like Narco, Trevor Hall, Michael Franci, Rising Appalachia. You know, there was just kind of. For a while there. There was a cool little like conscious music scene, as it were. Joel 00:20:37.260 - 00:20:37.780 Yeah. Drew (satsang) 00:20:37.780 - 00:20:48.470 And, you know, I just started getting. There's lost them. Joel 00:20:48.710 - 00:20:50.790 Yeah. I thought it was me. I mean, was it? Drew (satsang) 00:20:50.870 - 00:21:21.610 Yeah. Sorry, I forgot to turn my phone on. Do not disturb it. I went to end a call and canceled the thing. Yeah. So, yeah, I just. What? I kind of felt like people, the people that I wanted to play with were watching me, you know, or at least we're like, aware that I existed. So we just kept putting together these monstrous tours, you know, of like playing, you know, four and five and six week tours playing for nobody but it. I look like I was working. Yerasimos 00:21:22.250 - 00:21:27.610 Yeah. That's getting those hours and the hours mastery and I mean, you got to. Joel 00:21:28.010 - 00:21:36.750 But like, music is my first passion. Like, I'm an independent artist in my own way as well. But, like, it takes a level of resilience, man. So I Just keep doing that. Drew (satsang) 00:21:37.230 - 00:23:17.250 You got to numb your taste buds, because you're going to eat a lot of dude. It just is. And, you know, like, it just. It sucked. And I don't remember how I got. Maybe it was on Instagram or something, but I reached out to Trevor hall and was like, hey, man, could I call you? And he said, yes. Which I was like, holy, that's crazy. But I called him and was just like, hey, man, what the. Am I. You know, what am I not doing? You know? He's like, what are you talking about, dude? You're killing it. You're busy. Like, I can see you're grinding. And I'm like, yeah, so don't tell anyone, but no one's coming to my shows. He goes, well, you don't got to tell me, bro. Like, I know. I did the same. Like, you know, I know no one's coming to your shows, but, like, what you're doing is the right thing. And then this is where got so interesting. So I believed in our live show, dude. And Trev was like, you know, I might have some stuff coming up that I could put you on. You know, let me. Let me see what I can do. And about a week later, this venue in Florida, this cool outdoor venue called Janice Live, had Michael Franti, but they didn't have an opener. So they reached out. You know, I'm in Montana. Me and my band are in Montana. The show is in St. Pete, Florida. And I think they were offering us 500 bucks. But the way this venue is set up is that the green room is, like, up on this balcony. Yerasimos 00:23:17.250 - 00:23:17.810 Like, the. Drew (satsang) 00:23:18.130 - 00:25:33.760 The backstage is up on this balcony that surrounds this outdoor venue. So I was like, if we go play this show with Franti, there's no way he's going to hang out inside. He's going to come watch our set from the balcony. He's going to fall in love with our band, and he's going to take us on tour. So I spent all of my money but $35 to get us to St. Pete. We. I found some dude that was, like, a friend of a friend of a friend. We went to this, like, swampy trailer park to borrow a drum kit, and we went and played this show, and my manager managed to get us on the show the next night in Jacksonville as well. But we played this show with Franti, and we get done, and his monitor engineer was like, hey, dude, Michael was up there, like, dancing, and during your set, like, he was vibing while you were playing. And I was like, oh, So I. We see each other in passing. And I was like, hey, dude, I would love to get up and spit a verse with you. And he kind of like, oh, okay. And he gets on stage and he shouts us out like three times from stage. And I'm like, well, that's cool. And after the show, anytime we would get it open, a cool show, I would stand outside with CDs and I would, like, hand them out. And I would kind of do, like, the Hari Krishna thing where I would, like, hand it to someone, and they'd be like, how much is it? And I'd be like, whatever you want to give. But sometimes people give me 100 bucks, sometimes people give me five. Sometimes people would give me nothing, you know, But I would just. Yeah, but after the Franti show, he was, like, walking across this catwalk, and we made eye contact while I was hustling CDs, and he, like, pointed at me, and I was like, hey. And then the next night in Jacksonville, while they were sound checking, they're like, literally in the middle of a song, and his front of house comes up and hands me a mic in front. He goes, drew, spit your verse. And I was just like, so I did it. I had one in the chamber. Spit that verse with him that night. Long story short, about a week later, his team reached out and said, hey, Franti wants you to do the whole next year with him on the road. Joel 00:25:33.840 - 00:25:38.720 Damn. Exactly. Like, you, like, permissioned it to be. Drew (satsang) 00:25:39.120 - 00:25:47.600 Exactly how I manifested it. Yeah. And then we get offered to go do these three shows with Trevor in California that were all kind of in the Bay Area. Joel 00:25:48.000 - 00:25:48.480 Yeah. Drew (satsang) 00:25:49.440 - 00:26:35.830 And I. At that point, I'm like, I just want to kind of be. Get to know Trev and see if we are going to be homies, you know, or whatever. And we. We clicked really well. But I wasn't necessarily hunting for an opportunity because I was like, well, we just got all these dates with Franti, so I'm chilling, you know, Like, I just got my. My big break, as it were. And then at the end of the night, the first show that we did with Trevor in San Francisco, he comes and gives me a hug, and he's like, bro, I called my agent while you guys were playing. I told him that I want you guys for the. For the summer. And it just so happened that it was the craziest year of my life. It would be like, Franti would do a month, Trevor would do a month, Franti would do a month, Trevor would do a month. So what would have been Time off became like, okay, we're leaving Francy tour to go on Trevor tour. Joel 00:26:36.930 - 00:26:37.130 Yeah. Drew (satsang) 00:26:37.130 - 00:26:46.450 And I just ping pong back and forth with those two for, like, 18 months. I think the longest I was home was like, 10 days for about a year and a half. Yerasimos 00:26:47.570 - 00:26:54.770 Dude, that's so dope. Just, again, the power of imagination and intention and. And, I mean, it's a real thing, man. Joel 00:26:55.090 - 00:26:59.770 Be being in the arena, like, being in the arena long enough for something to actually happen, you know? Yerasimos 00:26:59.770 - 00:27:04.610 Yeah. How. What's the timing of this? From when you got back from Nepal to being in Florida for the show,. Drew (satsang) 00:27:07.790 - 00:27:09.630 17 Would have been like four years. Yerasimos 00:27:09.790 - 00:27:25.870 Okay. Okay. Grinding. Okay, I got this question. Why Satsang? Why is that the name? When did it come to you? Was it before you got to. Back to. Back to the US or when you got here? Or did you originally have, like, Drew and the Boys as. As your. Drew (satsang) 00:27:25.950 - 00:28:53.210 No, it was your band name before you changed it. So it was actually up in the Himalaya was when I, like, made the decision, like, okay, I'm gonna do music. I'm gonna have a band when I get home. You know, that's the thing. I'm gon. So when I got back from the mountains, I was. I stayed in Kathmandu for, I think, three days. Before I went home, I heard about this, like, outdoor climbing gym that wasn't far from my hotel, and that they were having, like, kind of, like an open competition. So I was like, bet, dude. I'll go win 20 bucks or whatever. The. So I go to this climbing competition, and I had got there late, and it was already done, but people were still hanging out climbing. And I meet this kid from Holland, this, like, dready kid from Holland, and we smoked a spliff, and we're just kind of hanging out and talking and talking about traveling, talking about music. And then when we were parting ways, he's like. He takes this card, and he goes, hey, dude, I'm. I have. The ashram that I'm staying at is having Satsang later, if you want to come. And I was like, you know, I didn't want to be like, what the does that mean? I was just like, oh, sick, dude. Thanks. But he wrote down Satsang with the address and gave it to me, and I was like, oh, thanks, dude. So when I got back to my hotel, the. Com. There's a computer in the lobby, so I Google. I thought that was, like, the name of a place or something, you know? Joel 00:28:53.530 - 00:28:53.790 So. Drew (satsang) 00:28:53.860 - 00:29:04.020 So I googled Satsung, and the first thing that came up was like in the company of the highest truth. I was like, that's what I'm going to call it. So this kid from Holland who I never saw again is actually who named the band. Yerasimos 00:29:05.060 - 00:29:05.940 That's dope. Joel 00:29:07.460 - 00:29:22.980 Yeah. So tell me like, when did you first feel, if I can call it like, oh, wow, I'm like a successful musician or like there's, there's enough momentum here where it's like this is like my dream actually grounding into reality kind of thing. Drew (satsang) 00:29:25.540 - 00:30:13.690 Yeah. I think it was when we, when we got those tours because like after those tours we started selling a hundred tickets a night essentially. I was, I, I quit my job at the climbing shop and was like, I have to be full time focused on this music thing because I had gotten a manager and I went through a bunch of different agents. But it just was like I feel like my time would be way better served writing music and plotting my next moves than it would be hanging out at the climbing shop. And I feel like when I first felt like successful was when I was making the same amount of money, I guess per year. Yerasimos 00:30:13.690 - 00:30:13.930 Right. Drew (satsang) 00:30:13.930 - 00:30:15.570 Because it would come in chunks with tour. Joel 00:30:15.970 - 00:30:16.330 Yeah. Drew (satsang) 00:30:16.330 - 00:30:26.530 But I was making enough and I toured a lot, but I was making about the same amount of money I would had. I had a full time job and continued to work at Silver Peak. Yerasimos 00:30:26.610 - 00:30:27.090 Yeah. Drew (satsang) 00:30:29.170 - 00:30:47.310 And. Yeah. And then it, you know, and it gradually kept getting better to where all of a sudden I was paying all of the bills at our house and I was the primary breadwinner and. Which felt really good because my wife, my ex wife carried us for, for a minute, dude. You know, like she really, she really supported the cause. Yerasimos 00:30:48.590 - 00:30:49.070 Wow. Drew (satsang) 00:30:49.710 - 00:31:00.430 Yeah. Yeah. She's a G. And she, you know, if anything ever happens to me, it's in my will that she gets the rights to my music. Because, you know, I. None of this would have happened if she wouldn't have supported me the way that she did. Joel 00:31:01.230 - 00:31:23.610 Damn. That's pretty incredible. So talk to me. Like, like, I'm so curious what it's like going from like no fans to then all of a sudden like you're starting to recognize people know your songs, they're singing along to your songs. That shows they're excited. Like what's that process like internally where it's like what is happening now? Like people are into this, they're vibing, like people are recognizing it. Drew (satsang) 00:31:25.370 - 00:32:56.670 It's weird, you know, Like I still have this weird kind of imposter syndrome sometimes, but I could. There's like a few core memories you know, like, I never, when I was on tour with. With Trevor or Franti, felt like, oh, I made it. You know, I'm playing these big shows because I'm like, these aren't my fans. These are their fans. And that summer, this band Wookie Foot, does this big festival called Shangri La every year, and they gave us an insane time slot, you know, like 8pm on the main stage or something. Ridiculous. A time slot we had no business occupying. But JoJo Uncle Joe really just believed in me. And throughout that entire set, I would, like, you know, the lights would kind of go across the crowd and I'd be like, I feel like people know these songs. Like, and then we played I Am, and we started the opening riff and everyone started cheering, and I was like, oh, that's weird. I wonder what they think we're about to play. And then. Yeah, I remember after that first chorus, I could hear them singing louder than the monitors. I could hear them singing over the monitors. And I went over to. To Carl, my bass player at the time, and was like, dude, they know the song. He's like, I know what the. You know, like, but I still get it. I mean, even now, like,. Joel 00:32:58.830 - 00:32:59.470 You know,. Drew (satsang) 00:32:59.470 - 00:34:10.330 Like, everyone knows what the festival schedule is when they're at a festival because it's either on your phone or you have the thing. But, like, even now, when our time slot is, like, coming up at a festival, when you see a crowd start to fill in, I'm like, I wonder who they think is playing. You know, I still am. Like, they must think someone else is about to play. It's like, no, bro, they know you're. They have the schedule, dude. They're here to watch you play. Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting thing, though. For me, the part that was like, I don't even know what it was, but was when you go from, like, people not just knowing these songs, but when I started getting messages and meeting people in person, sharing, like, how the. How the music had served them. Yeah, you know, like, some really crazy stories, dude, of, like, you know, people that were going to commit suicide, people that were trying to stay sober, people with ptsd, veterans, like, just some of the craziest stories ever. It made me start taking what I do really, really serious, you know? Joel 00:34:10.810 - 00:34:32.020 Yeah. Talk me through, I guess. Like, what is. What is your creative process like? You know, like, you just, like, go about your day, then, like, you get, like, a hit of inspiration, then you're like, oh, there might be a thread there, like, to pull later, so to speak. And you just kind of start pulling that thread, whether it's melodically or lyrically or what's. Yeah, you tell me. Drew (satsang) 00:34:32.820 - 00:36:39.560 Well, how it used to be was I would do everything on a guitar. You know, I would, like, pick up the guitar and see what I find. And then if I found something, I'd kind of find a melody. But when I write, it happens really fast. Like, once. Once I get, like, a melody or a sentence. Every song that I've ever kept has been written in, like, five minutes or less, you know, like, wow. If I feel any sort of resistance or like, okay, how do I want to say? Then I just. I stop. So I. They all kind of write themselves. Like, once I get hit by the. The thing, it's pretty much on. And with the new record, I approached it completely differently. I had reached out to a handful of producers and was like, send me any instrumental tracks that you have that don't have lyrics. And a few different people sent me stuff that was all cool. But Matt Williams, the dude who I made Elohim with, everything he sent me, I mean, I would have the first listen through, I would find a hook. I would like. Everything he sent me just fired something off right away. And we just developed this really insane working relationship where, like, I think he started assessing, like, if I said no to something, he could, like, take notes of. Like, okay, he probably doesn't like this. Where if he said yes to this one, he probably likes this. And we just kind of formed this weird chemistry. So Matt made all of the music for the new record, and I just wrote and wrote and recorded all the. All the vocals. So I've never made a record like that. Usually I'm like, it used to be I would write a song on guitar, and then I would kind of, like, visualize what I would. What the rest of the song should sound like, you know? And then I would kind of direct other players on. On how. What to play. But this record, I did not, which was a really fun process for me. Yerasimos 00:36:40.520 - 00:36:47.560 And were you just like it? I'm doing something different this time. Like, I want less control or I want to collaborate in a different way. Drew (satsang) 00:36:47.560 - 00:37:31.820 Like, yeah, I just. I had kind of gotten burned out on one. I was kind of in a transition with my band where I had done a handful of solo tours, and I was actually selling more tickets solo than I was with the band. So the dudes that were playing for me all got other jobs, you know? You know, and so this idea of, like, kind of what it felt like to me is like, forcing everyone to get together and get in the studio. And then all these weird conversations of, like, well, we're not really a band, because I write everything. These are all my ideas. You know, the whole thing of, like, divvying up points and, like, that. I was just like, I just. That sounds like a nightmare to me. Joel 00:37:31.980 - 00:37:32.420 Yeah. Drew (satsang) 00:37:32.420 - 00:38:44.300 Like, where I had kind of in my head, like, well, if I find the right producer, I'll just split it with him. 50, 50. Like, you make the music, I'll write the words, you know, and that was not advantageous. Like, every. My business manager. Manager. Everyone on the professional side of things is like, no, no, no, no. You give a producer 20%. And I'm like, right? But they're making all of the music. And they're like, right, but you built the name that's going to generate the streams and the interest. Right. But I was just like. It felt. That didn't feel good to me. Like, to me, the 5050 thing felt really good. Like, you're making the music. I'm gonna do the words and the vocals. And then also on this record, I. If you look at the new record, every song, it says featuring Matt Williams. I was just like, dude, the reason this sounds dope is because Matt made it. You know, like, if that was anybody else, it wouldn't sound this sick. So I took a very different professional approach to it. But, yeah, I think for me, the idea of just working with one producer and just kind of, like, being able to hear a song and be like, nah, I don't like it. Or, yeah, dude, this is. That. That was, like, really, really refreshing. Joel 00:38:45.500 - 00:38:46.140 Oh, man. Drew (satsang) 00:38:46.850 - 00:38:47.730 So tell me about. Joel 00:38:47.730 - 00:39:07.570 Because, like, obviously there's, you know, on. On. On the latest record, you know, there's some frustration towards, like, the industry in general. I guess that's kind of expressed. Like, what's. Where does that stem from? Obviously there's the. The obvious answers, but, you know, I want to hear it, I guess, from you and how you kind of perceive the music industry as it is. Drew (satsang) 00:39:08.130 - 00:39:11.330 Yeah, I hate all these motherfuckers, bro. Joel 00:39:11.410 - 00:39:11.890 Yeah. Drew (satsang) 00:39:11.970 - 00:42:39.670 Except for, like, three people. No, the industry was, like. For me, I've been. I've been with a lot, dude. You know, like, the real story is I had an agent that wasn't doing his job the way that I wanted him to do, and we had addressed it a bunch of times, and I let him go. And that same week, I said no to a label deal from a label, and I did not know that that label in this agency was connected. So when I said no to that label deal and fired that agent the same week, they took it as me being like, your whole team, which really wasn't it. I had a way better label deal. I had a way better offer from another label and like a legendary punk rock label, which was like a dream to even get to put out a record with like, side one dummy. If you listen to any punk rock growing up, that was like, dude, that's the Rockefeller of punk rock, dude. You know, like. But because of those two decisions to let that agent go and say no to that record deal, it created some enemies. And they have with me. And I kind of internalized it for a long time, and it used to make me really angry. And I think what. What I started seeing was just like the predatory nature of. Of. Of these kinds of people. Because essentially the thing is, like, a label deal is the. It's the dumbest thing in the world, really, like, for context of everyone listening that doesn't know how the music industry works. Here's the. The ultimate analogy. If you wanted to open a sandwich shop and you said, hey, I need $60,000 to open this sandwich shop. And I said, cool, I'm going to give you the $60,000. But every penny you make, you can't put in in your pocket. It goes back to paying me this debt. Once you've paid me back my $60,000, then we'll split your money 5050 for 10 years. It's the most outrageous, predatory thing on planet earth. And we live in an era where music is free. So, like, the. The services a label could provide. You are kind of meh at this point, right? Like in the 90s, the only way you could get your music out was if you had a record label. That's just not the case anymore. So I just see the way they prey on artists and talented young people coming up. And I've been fiercely independent and fiercely protective of ownership over my brand, my business, the rights to my music, my masters. I own everything. And yeah, I just kind of want. I kind of wanted to give a finger to this certain group of people. And two, I kind of just wanted to lay out like, a format so other artists might hear that song and be like, yeah, I with that dude. Because for me, how I got hip to all that was because of Chance the rapper and Russ. You know, it's like, why are these. Joel 00:42:39.670 - 00:42:44.950 Guys independent like a mogul, huh? When it comes to his music business,. Drew (satsang) 00:42:45.910 - 00:42:57.190 He produces all of his own beats, so he makes all of the music. So I mean, he owns 100% of everything. No label, no nothing. He is a genius. Yerasimos 00:42:57.590 - 00:42:57.870 Yeah. Drew (satsang) 00:42:57.870 - 00:43:11.310 You know, and. And Chance the rapper, same thing. He's. He didn't. He released one of the biggest hip hop albums in history and did it without a label and became a superstar,. Joel 00:43:11.310 - 00:43:13.749 You know, so it's like coloring. Coloring book. Drew (satsang) 00:43:14.230 - 00:43:14.710 Yeah. Joel 00:43:14.710 - 00:43:16.230 Yeah. Incredible record. Drew (satsang) 00:43:16.310 - 00:44:21.860 Yeah, totally. So, like, for me, I was just really inspired by these people to not. To not give up any chunk of the rights to my music, you know, and for me, like, saying no to that label, it wasn't personal at all. It was just like, nah, you know, if I'm gonna do this, I need it to really favor me. I need the deal to really favor me. And side one, Dummy, Dummy gave me a deal that really favored me, so I took that deal instead of the one that I was offered from this other company. That's it. To me, it wasn't a personal decision at all. I, like, have nothing but respect or had nothing but respect for the. That particular group that offered me that deal. So to find out that they were, like, trying to back door and talking about me behind closed doors and having opportunities taken away from me. I'm also from a different world. So, like, I'm not like some artsy fartsy kid that's like, oh, this label's picking on me. My brain goes, you're taking money away from my family. So we don't have industry problems. Yerasimos 00:44:22.660 - 00:44:23.220 Like, we have. Drew (satsang) 00:44:23.220 - 00:44:51.500 Like, when I see you, we have an actual problem problem. Because I don't. I'm not. That's why I put that nipsey thing in, that Nipsey quote in there. Like, bro, I'm not from this world. I'm not. If you're taking money from my child, bro, we don't have an industry beef. We have a. Like, we have a life beef. Yeah, we have a very serious personal issue with one another now. Yeah. So really, at this point, I'm. I'm good, but it felt really good to get it off my chest. Joel 00:44:51.660 - 00:45:17.270 Okay. Yeah, no, thanks for going into that, man. Like, do you feel like musicians today, like. Because obviously, like, a bigger Russell. A big part of Russell's come up as his. He's mastered the social media game, you know, to some extent. Do you feel like it's disheartening to lots of artists where it's like, I've got to be a content creator and really master this social media as well as have to, you know, put out dope music and all the rest of it? Drew (satsang) 00:45:17.990 - 00:46:10.220 Yeah, it's crippling even me sometimes. Because what's funny, dude, is it's like. It seems like the more effort that I put into making cool content, the less views it gets. You know, it's like I hire a videographer and have this cool idea for reels, and we do them and no one cares. So it's like I've kind of gotten to the point where I'm like, it's all in God's hands, man. Like, I'm not gonna stop making content, but I'm definitely not going to lose any sleep about it. And I've also seen, you know, I have friends that have insane social media numbers that don't sell any more tickets than me. So, like, a big thing that I've seen is that there's not really a huge. You know, there's also artists that have 1.3 million Instagram followers but only have 85,000 monthly listeners on Spotify. Joel 00:46:10.220 - 00:46:14.400 So it's, like, for followers. Followers doesn't mean consumers, you know? Drew (satsang) 00:46:14.400 - 00:46:35.480 No, that's exactly it. It's like, because, I mean, how does social media work, right? It's like, I see a video all the time where I'm like, oh, man, I like that. So I'm gonna follow you. That doesn't mean I'm gonna buy a ticket to your show and get a T shirt. And you know what I mean? It just means I like, I liked that piece of content, dude. I liked it enough that I would like to see more content from you. It doesn't mean that I'm gonna give you my money. Joel 00:46:35.880 - 00:46:50.100 Yeah. So, like, how. How do you see, like, as, like, the organic path for, like, the independent, authentic artist today? Like, what does that look like? Someone into, like, a fan that is going to buy a T shirt, he's going to rock up to the show. He's gonna. You know,. Drew (satsang) 00:46:52.260 - 00:47:07.700 For me, man, it's authenticity over everything. Like, Jerry Garcia said something that I really, really love. He was talking about the Grateful Dead. He goes. He said, not everyone likes the Grateful Dead. He said, the Grateful Dead is like licorice. Not everybody likes it, but the people that like it, really, really like it. Joel 00:47:08.020 - 00:47:08.580 Yep. Drew (satsang) 00:47:09.300 - 00:48:15.660 You know, so I. I feel that way about satsang of just, like, not everyone is into super deep, retrospective spiritual music. Some people just want music about weed and girls. I'm not that guy. There is, you know, a hundred different bands that can give you weed and girls and barbecues and that kind of music. That's never going to be my lane. I couldn't ever. I Just not saying that everything that I make forever in eternity is going to be ethereal and deep, but, like, I can't help it when it's time to write. It activates a very deep spiritual part of me of, like, what do I want to say to these people? If people are listening to me, what do I want to say? And what always comes out is. Feels heavy and important and deep. So, like. Yeah, I think for anyone. What. Even if the weed thing is your thing, whatever, the drinking thing is your thing, like, you gotta just trust your taste and that if you like it, there's bound to be other people that like it. Joel 00:48:16.140 - 00:48:23.579 Yeah, exactly. And you have to trust your taste for long enough to actually, you know, see that thing become something great, I think. Drew (satsang) 00:48:23.740 - 00:49:26.440 Yeah. And. And the not quitting thing, man, that's really it. Like, there were just so many times where it seemed completely logical to quit, but I would always kind of tell myself, like, yeah, okay, so a logical person would quit and get a real job. But if I don't do that, then, like, the herd just got a little thinner, right? Then I just crossed another checkpoint where most bands quit and I didn't. I think that's super important too, you know? And there's just so many guys, like, I look at. There's a band that I really love who. Who we toured with a couple summers ago called the Hip Abduction. You know, David's like, in his mid-40s. They've been a band for, like, 25 years and have been selling 100 to 300 tickets for 15 of those 20, 25 years, whatever. And now they're selling 2 to 5,000 a night. And it just happened in the last couple of years. So it's like you don't ever know when something's going to hit, you know, Michael Franti, he didn't have his first song on radio until he was in his early 40s. Joel 00:49:28.370 - 00:50:09.030 That's so crazy. It reminds me of. There's this. There's this famous quote in the locker room of the San Antonio spurs, and it's this guy named Jacob Reese, and he's talking about a stone cutter. And he says, when nothing seems to help, I go and look at a stone cutter hammering away at his rock perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it yet. At the 101st blow, it splits in Sue. And I know it was not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before, you know, so willing to be in the arena and keep doing the work and not see anything happen and not Know when that thing all of a sudden is going to be like, oh, my effort has meant something for sure. Drew (satsang) 00:50:09.190 - 00:51:57.490 And it's, it's, it's so simple, too. It's like, if you quit, then you'll, you know, there you go. You're out of the game. You'll never know if you could have been successful, but if you don't, you don't know. Like, if you stay in the arena, like, you're saying, it's like, there's always that chance there, but as soon as you're like, I'm done, well, now there is zero chance because you're not, you're out. And, you know, I just believe that. And I believe, You know, I just, I think people need, as the world continues to get more fabricated and fake and artificially generated, I hope that I'm can kind of be a tree for, for people, you know, I, I hope to, I hope that there's a resurgence where people are like, man, everything has become so doctored and filtered and perfect. I want some real, you know, like. Yep, yeah, man, music is getting pretty goofy, you know, like, across the board. I, I, some that I've seen in the past couple years of, like, a lot of real big bands in my extended scene that are using AI in the studio, that are using AI to help them write songs. And to me, I'm just like, you're a clown, bro. To me, it would be like, imagine if I could AI myself to be 6 foot 7 and built like Shaq, you know? It's like, well, yeah, of course you're gonna get to play basketball then. But it's like, dude, if you can't write songs without the help of a computer, you shouldn't be writing songs. You should find another gig. Joel 00:51:58.850 - 00:52:07.090 Is there, is there any line for you with AI, Like AI mixing, for example, like, nope, no, nope. Drew (satsang) 00:52:07.280 - 00:53:48.170 If the arts are involved, dude, we did this shit so backwards. So we're putting all this energy into AI doing things for us, but we're still roofing houses and laying fucking concrete. But it's making art for us. It should be fucking laying concrete and putting shingles on houses so people can paint more. Like, it shouldn't be generating images. It shouldn't be making music. It should be doing the shit that is, like, arduous and shitty parts of the human experience, dude. Not the beautiful, deep parts where people can express themselves. Like, I, the, I guess a thing like I see in the music business side of things, you know, like a manager, for instance, could generate auto replies to promoters or something like that to save them three hours a day, that totally fine. But when it comes to the creation, the mixing, the mastering, the generation of art, to me it's absolutely sacrilegious and gross. And like, if you need that help to create music, you should get a different job. You should get a different job. Me and Trevor had like, a super deep dive about this this summer because, yeah, there's some artists we know that are using it. And I just am like, I just have this, you know, there's this little guy on my shoulder that's like, you should fucking blow a spot up, dude. You should tell everyone that they're using AI. But I've even seen goofy dude. There's bands like, where the dude that's on stage pretending that looks like he's playing the bass isn't actually playing the bass. It's a guy sitting behind the rack behind a curtain, playing. Playing bass form for real. Yerasimos 00:53:48.250 - 00:53:50.690 That's like Milli Vanilli right there. Drew (satsang) 00:53:50.690 - 00:54:02.770 Absolute Milli Vanilli, dude. Yeah. So much. And I'm not talking about Justin Bieber level artists either, bro. I'm talking about people that are like regular large print on reggae festivals. Yerasimos 00:54:02.770 - 00:54:18.890 And that's just like, I couldn't live with myself. Like, I. I'm not a musician. I love music. I appreciate. I couldn't live myself to be a performer, to be on stage just moving my fingers around, tapping some strings even though I'm not playing any. Like, I could. Drew (satsang) 00:54:20.250 - 00:54:53.520 It's, wow, take some serious mental gymnastics. And I feel the same way as a songwriter of just like, dude, you're gonna go perform a song every night that, you know, a computer wrote for you. We're. We're making music for completely different reasons. If you're okay with that and you're not losing sleep over it and feel no sense of guilt or shame. You are making music for a completely different reason than I'm making music. You're trying to generate a product. I'm trying to generate an experience that can positively impact someone's lives. We are not the same. Yerasimos 00:54:55.290 - 00:55:19.580 Yeah. And again, it's like, there'll be people that want the other thing and then. But it's like, cool, go have the other thing. Like, I'm being myself. I'm being authentic. There is this. I mean, we kind of see this bifurcation happening in the world in many different areas. You know, sure, there may be some integration in some places, but generally speaking, authenticity goes down a certain route and then fake as peeps go down another route. Drew (satsang) 00:55:20.370 - 00:56:06.640 Yeah. And I feel like when weed was first getting legalized, it was a thing everyone was so scared of. The, like, you know, is Monsanto and Marlboro gonna come out with a weed brand? I'm like, who cares? Like, the people that want to smoke Marlboro's weed are gonna smoke it, but the people that want to go to their local co op and, like, shake hands with the grower, like, that's the kind of weed I want to smoke. I want to know the guy that's like, yeah, dude, I like, you know, I compost my own. Like, I. I love and care about these plants. Because that guy's not just selling me weed. He's selling me, like, no, man, I really care, you know, I really care about this product. And it's the same thing with food. Some people are going to shop at Walmart, some people are going to go to the co op. I'm a co op guy. Joel 00:56:07.280 - 00:56:07.600 Yeah. Yerasimos 00:56:07.600 - 00:56:27.640 I'm trying to grow my own food, man, and do my thing, you know, like, exactly. I don't care what we. Supermarket, even farmers market. There is nothing that compares to going in your backyard and pulling off a ripe plum or nectarine or peach from your tree and tasting that it is, like, it is next level. Drew (satsang) 00:56:28.040 - 00:56:55.780 Yeah. No, that's like a very primal. That's it. I did this thing and I took care of this thing, and now it's feeding me. That's like, that's it, bro. That's the circle of life. So it's like, I just trust, I think, more and more, you know, like, we're all kind of pointing to. We're going to get so far away from, you know, we're moving so far away from authentic expression that I feel like there's going to be a resurgence of people, like, begging for it, you know? Yeah. Yerasimos 00:56:56.100 - 00:57:41.110 And even just like, the desire for connection and tactile experiences, like, we've. We've gotten so digitized, you know, we're. We're connected, but we're so alone. And I'm already seeing that, like, live events, people together, laughing, dancing, being around a fire, telling stories, you know, because what this is. And again, I'm grateful, too, for technology. I'm not. I'm not like, 100% against it. And nothing, and we say this often, nothing beats hanging with your homies, laughing, breaking bread together, hugging one another. Like, there is something missing. Like, even here now, it's great. We're having a great conversation, and yet the essence of who we are, there's something there that's just not there, except when you're together. Drew (satsang) 00:57:41.830 - 00:57:43.750 Totally. Totally. Yerasimos 00:57:44.550 - 00:58:08.030 Yeah. Okay. I want to ask you this because you started off the conversation here like, you know, your curiosity, having the life that you live, your curiosity of, like, life, why we're here. What is all this? So at this stage in your life, like, what. Why are we here? Why are human beings here? Like, what is God to you? Like, what is your spiritual philosophy? Drew (satsang) 00:58:10.510 - 01:01:11.570 I always say I'm a Christian, but not like that. I. I have a lot of issues with the church, as it were, and. And maybe that's even too broad of a statement. I think anytime you gather a bunch of people for any reason will occur, whether it's a mega church or Burning man or, you know, what's supposed to be a peaceful protest. It's like, we just. People always have alternative motives, and the more. The. The more. The more that you gather them together, the. The higher the chances of. To me, my philosophy on life now is service, and how can I best use the tools that God gave me to be of service to other humans while I'm here? I've done, like. I've had some very heavy spiritual experiences in the last couple years that have made it so crystal clear to me that I was put here to serve and that music is the tool that I was given to do that. And, you know, I. I absolutely adore the Bible, but I also think that there's a lot of merit and goodness to be shown in plant medicine, for instance, and just in ritual and practice. And so I would say, you know, for me, prayer is just a huge part of my existence. I pray so much. The first thing I do right when I wake up, mostly just gratitude that I'm. That I'm here and that I'm able and present and that I have a beautiful wife and a healthy family and shelter and this gift that I. That I can't stop creating because I. I feel like if I do, I'll explode. But for me, I think my overall philosophy is that we are all put here to serve one another, and we're all given certain skill sets in which we could do that probably the most joyfully. Like, if you're really a naturally talented carpenter and suck at music, you probably shouldn't pursue a music career. I super suck at carpentry. It's not a strong suit of mine. I'm not good at building things, but for whatever reason, I can put words together that seemingly impact people in a positive way. So I think for me, it's the. You know, there's that Japanese Saying ick a guy, like, what are you good at? What would be a service? You know? So for me, it's just every person I feel like has a responsibility to find that ICA guy thing, you know, like, what are you good at? And what would make the world better and go all in on that. Joel 01:01:13.170 - 01:01:16.130 Yeah, speaking of, I. I agree. Drew (satsang) 01:01:16.450 - 01:01:17.170 I love that. Yerasimos 01:01:17.890 - 01:01:19.890 That graphic, the guy graphic. Drew (satsang) 01:01:20.450 - 01:02:20.280 Yeah, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. And I think a lot of people get hung up on the how and it's like, you know, they can cripple themselves out of pursuing a thing because of the. The existential dread of all of the things that can't go wrong. An exercise I did with my wife when we. When we first were dating, she kind of had this tendency to catastrophize a lot, which is common with people that come from abuse. I used to do it too. So anytime I find myself imagining the worst case scenario, well, what if this happens? What if this happens? I always try to pause and be like, okay, now let's go. What if this song hits and then all of a sudden, in three months, I just have $10 million? Imagine all the people we could help, you know, Like, I. I also, I try to just balance that. Anytime I'm like, drifting, I'm like, okay, if we're going to use our imagination here and imagine some terrible outcome, then let's also use our imagination to possibly manifest the highest possible outcome. Joel 01:02:21.400 - 01:02:49.420 Sure, man. Yeah. And I mean, aspects of your journey, like, you know, the, you know, the vision that you had, going to say yes to the Francie gig, even, like, messaging Trevor hall and being like, is anything going to be here? It's like those quote unquote risks, like, without them, like, so many doors would have potentially remained closed. But to have the hit, to have the intuitive feeling and being like, fuck it, you know, if no one responds, no one responds. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. But what if it does? Drew (satsang) 01:02:49.580 - 01:02:50.620 You know, what if it does? Joel 01:02:51.380 - 01:03:02.540 Like this. This podcast started because I heard you're asking us on a different podcast, and I just messaged him saying, hey, man, that was dope. Then he responded to me, you know, I didn't, I didn't know he was going to respond. Then we, six years later, 310 episodes later, here we are. Drew (satsang) 01:03:02.540 - 01:03:17.710 You know, that's so epic. Yeah. And I think, I think we just live in. I think that's one thing that social media has done to us. It's made everyone way more self conscious than where they need to be, you know, I. Yerasimos 01:03:18.110 - 01:03:32.350 People get sucked into the compare and contrast game way too much and it paralyzes them from even just reaching out to someone and say, hey, can I call you? Yeah, like, like, oh, to me, like, just. Well, it's the thing. Drew (satsang) 01:03:32.990 - 01:04:25.010 And it's particularly hard. I feel like as an artist too, there's this, like, I used to struggle a lot with why is this band successful and I'm not successful? Like, they're writing super wack shit and my shit's super cool and deep. Why don't people, like, why is he selling 3,000 tickets a night and I'm only selling 200? And yeah, I just one. I feel like as we get older, we have to let go of what anyone outside of our inner circle thinks about us because it doesn't matter. And to like, for me, I've just been like the last year in, in particular, really, like, as I've been making this record is like doing away with that comparison thing and being like, well, I don't care what anyone else's path is because it's not mine and my path is mine. And even if this is as good as it gets, it's pretty good. Joel 01:04:25.730 - 01:04:28.290 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yerasimos 01:04:29.810 - 01:05:18.510 Yeah. The constellation of experiences, of variables, of you, of your process, of your journey, no one has that. And so how can, like, the compare and contrast game is useless in that regard. I get it. You want to be you be inspired by other people. There's nothing wrong with that. But when you're becoming disempowered, when you're falling into lack thinking, scarcity thinking, self judgment, that's when you, like you said earlier, how do I use the imagination and flip it? It's like, okay, I understand. I can go to this place in me. But what exists on the other side, duality exists. It's within us in so many different facets. And it's like we have to have the self awareness to catch ourselves, to go, I'm going down this path, but there is gold on the other side. And how can I mine that goal to support me and benefit me, to move closer towards what I want and to bring into the world what I want. Drew (satsang) 01:05:20.750 - 01:05:25.550 Yeah. And a lot of it is just, I think, work too, of the showing up when you can't see the end result. Joel 01:05:25.950 - 01:05:26.510 Yep. Drew (satsang) 01:05:26.590 - 01:06:10.850 Yeah. You know, like when we made the album Culture, that was the first time I had been offered a record deal and I said no. And I spent. I thought the songs were so good. I believed in that record so much. I spent $35,000 of my own money that I did not have, and the record did not perform well, and I thought it was the coolest. I still, like, if I have a long drive, I'll still put that record on and listen to it front to back. And I'm, like, blown away by how great it is, but. But no one else thought it was that great, so it's like, it's okay. Because me making that record, you know, maybe the process of that was me learning who knows what, you know, Maybe it was just getting reps in. Joel 01:06:11.890 - 01:06:12.530 Nah, bro. Drew (satsang) 01:06:12.609 - 01:06:13.130 Breathe. Joel 01:06:13.130 - 01:06:14.770 Breathe is one of my favorite tracks of yours. Drew (satsang) 01:06:15.490 - 01:06:16.050 Thank you. Yerasimos 01:06:16.130 - 01:06:16.530 Yeah. Drew (satsang) 01:06:16.530 - 01:06:18.210 Yeah, I love that. I love that song, too. Joel 01:06:18.610 - 01:06:29.340 Yeah, so, like, just to, like, kind of nip it in the Buddha, you know, just, you know, to get an inside perspective. Is there, like, there's, like, no money in streaming? Like, is it all just. Drew (satsang) 01:06:30.060 - 01:06:31.340 That's a myth, bro. Joel 01:06:31.500 - 01:06:32.540 Getting listeners and. Drew (satsang) 01:06:33.820 - 01:06:37.420 No, the people that tell you there's no money in streaming, it's because they don't own their. Joel 01:06:37.980 - 01:06:38.860 Yeah, because. Drew (satsang) 01:06:39.100 - 01:06:51.230 Yeah, because they sign some other. Dude, I'll tell you this. Like, based on what I make, I can tell you that someone like Russ is making over a million dollars a month from streams. 100. Joel 01:06:51.630 - 01:06:52.110 Nice. Drew (satsang) 01:06:52.110 - 01:06:53.950 Probably. Probably a low estimate. Joel 01:06:54.190 - 01:06:54.750 Yeah. Drew (satsang) 01:06:54.990 - 01:07:28.920 For him, if you own your music and you have a song that's getting 20, 000 streams a day, you're fine. You're fine. So, like. Yeah, bro, it's. It's an absolute myth. The people that say that have convoluted their business so much that they've. And, dude, the industry gets weird, bro. When you get in there, there's, like, people that will get points on a record as, like, an executive producer or producer, because they were hanging out in the room that day. Well, I kind of facilitated the vibe. Joel 01:07:29.160 - 01:07:29.720 Yeah. Drew (satsang) 01:07:29.800 - 01:08:00.440 You know, like. And I only learned about a lot of some of this goofy shit. John Bellion is one of my favorite artists, and he's made hits for so many people, and I love all of his solo music, but, you know, he's a phenomenal producer, and he's recently done some podcasts where he's kind of explaining this, like, how much a song can get divvied up. It's wild. So it's like, I just saw the breakdown of that. What's her name? Ella Langley. That Choosing Texas song. Joel 01:08:00.440 - 01:08:00.920 Yeah. Drew (satsang) 01:08:01.240 - 01:08:06.760 You know, it's generated something like $68 million, and Ella got, like, nine of it. Joel 01:08:07.390 - 01:08:07.710 Yeah. Yerasimos 01:08:07.710 - 01:08:08.270 Wow. Drew (satsang) 01:08:08.510 - 01:08:11.590 What the. You know what I mean? Yerasimos 01:08:11.590 - 01:08:12.150 So it's like. Drew (satsang) 01:08:12.150 - 01:08:23.870 I mean, $9 million is super dope, so. But I'm just saying, like, if you don't own your. Yeah, it can get real convoluted. And. And if you're talking about, you know,. Joel 01:08:24.030 - 01:08:30.630 And I mean for her, like, the future benefit of now, like, having the biggest record in the world for however many months or weeks or whatever it. Drew (satsang) 01:08:30.630 - 01:08:32.910 Is now, she makes a million dollars a night on tour. Joel 01:08:33.350 - 01:08:33.750 Yeah. Drew (satsang) 01:08:34.150 - 01:09:05.320 Yeah. So, I mean, it's all relative. It depends what you're trying to do. For me, like, I'm open to pretty much anything, but at the end of the day, like, I just am not giving people points on a record because they were. You should say should instead of could right there. Give me my point. Like, no, bro. You know what I mean? Like. But no, there. There's money in streaming, for sure. I've put kids through college. That's how I owned my first home. Like, if you own your music, there's money in streaming. Joel 01:09:05.880 - 01:09:20.600 Epic, man. Bro, we'll wrap this up shortly, man. But just kind of final question, like, how's fatherhood, like, impacted you? And, you know, your. Your personal journey, your growth process. I know. You know, your little man has been a big impact on this current record. And your process at the moment. Drew (satsang) 01:09:23.000 - 01:12:07.470 Oh, it's gonna make me cry. I don't really care about anything else, dude. Like, I do, but I don't. Like, I love my kids in a way. You know, my. My other kids are older now, and I just had. Had dinner with my daughter last night, who's 20, and it's a different thing. You know, that's my homie now. But Malachi, you know, I. Everything I do is. Is an example for him. I. I love him more than I. I ever thought. It's a love that is completely inexplainable and unexpressible. It's in every single cell of me. And I'm far more concerned with him being proud of me. And, I mean, short of answering to God, I feel like I. I answer to him. So the kind of music that I put out, the kind of man that I am, the way I conduct myself, everything is somehow bounced off of his mirror. It's just. It lives in here 100 of the time. I just want to be the best dad ever. And according to him, I am. As of. As of. As of now, I am. He tells me all the time, you know, in that examination of what success means, I think human nature is, hey, you could be really successful at music, but you might have kind of a strained relationship with your family. I Feel like a lot of artists are like, well, I want music. I want that more than anything in the world, so I'll take it. But then when they get there, they would 100 of the time they're like, no, this is, this is fabricated. This is fugazi. I want my son to love me. I'm hyper aware of that thing. So for me, do I Wish I sold 5,000 tickets a night? 100. That would be super great. Would I trade it at the expense of, you know, my son completely unprovoked, unprompted, saying, I love you so much, dad, three to five times a day? No. So for me, success is keeping the balance of being the best husband and father that I could ever be and also pursuing making meaningful art for the world. Joel 01:12:08.990 - 01:12:45.160 Thank you, man. Thank you so much, bro. I mean, you have to know what you value. Otherwise where you end up is going to be a place where retroactively you look back, it's like, this is not actually what I wanted, you know. And like, I think for me as well, man, like being able to like build financial freedom, but like, not at the expense, man, of like the relationships I have with my wife and my kids, like, that is not what I want. And so like, if it's at a more, if it's at a slower pace, but it's the more organic pace, in order for me to be able to fill those buckets in the way they need to be filled, like that's what I crave more than anything else. Drew (satsang) 01:12:45.880 - 01:13:20.800 Well, a huge, A huge turning point for me, man. My. My ex wife, mom, who I was very close with, She got cancer. And I mean, from the time we found out she had cancer to her passing was just shy of six months. I spent a lot of time with her during that time. Malachi was a baby, but summer had to work, so I spent a lot of time with Joy as she was passing. And I've lost a lot of people in my life, but I've never lost someone slow. It was always an abrupt, an overdose, a car crash, a suicide, you know. Joel 01:13:20.960 - 01:13:21.440 Yeah. Drew (satsang) 01:13:22.000 - 01:14:29.310 So to be in relationship with someone as they knew they were dying was really powerful for me. But the last, when she was really on hospice, the last week, Her daughter had to build a. A Google Excel sheet because of so many people wanted to come sit with her. And I think about how many rock stars or actors or whoever the, you know, have died in some hospital by themselves because they're completely. They made all of the money, they got all of the. But completely estranged themselves from relationship. And I remember watching, you know, just all day, it was okay, you know, like, it's 12:15. You have to go because so and so is coming at 12:20. And it just hit me so heavy being like, this is success. We literally are having to use modern technology to somehow organize the amount of people that just want to come spend 10 minutes with her one more time. Joel 01:14:29.630 - 01:14:30.350 Wow, man. Drew (satsang) 01:14:30.350 - 01:14:52.350 I mean, that's. That's it, bro. None of this really matters. That's what matters. You know, the. The fans, they will forget about me. Most definitely. They will forget about me if I died tomorrow. Give him three years, dude. That will forget that I exist. My son will not. My wife will not. Yerasimos 01:14:54.440 - 01:14:54.680 So. Joel 01:14:55.080 - 01:14:55.560 Yeah. Drew (satsang) 01:14:55.640 - 01:14:56.600 Yeah, that. Joel 01:14:57.800 - 01:15:10.840 No. Thanks for sharing, man. So what is, like, your parents. What's your relationship with your parents like now? Like, do they have they. Are they. Are they alive? I don't know. Have they looked back and been like, wow, you know, Drew, you did all right. Drew (satsang) 01:15:12.280 - 01:17:14.390 I mean, I'm pretty loose contact with my mom. I mean, we don't talk. Really. Yeah, we're on the same phone plan, so she texts me once a month to. To remind me to pay the phone bill. I don't talk. My stepfather that raised me and kicked the out of me every day. We do not speak. And I do not speak to my real father either. Yeah, bro, I've been raw dogging this whole. Dude, I never. I don't. I have. I have not had any mentors or father figures. It's why I. It's why it's so important to me how I show up for my kids, because they're just. They will never go through life not having someone to call. And really, man, I was just having this conversation with my wife as I've gotten older. Hard when. Hard, hard shit happens. I've gotten really good at handling the hardship by myself, you know? Yeah, it'd be cool to have a dad to call and be like, yo, I'm going through this. You know, I went through a divorce. All of these things with. And I just kind of had to do it myself. As I get older, it's the winds, you know, Playing Red Rocks, having my album get fucking a quarter million streams in four days. Fucking dope, you know, wanting to fucking. It's those moments or to my son. He is the coolest fucking kid that has ever lived, dude. He is so cool. And just being like, you will never know him. You know, you will never know him, and in some weird way, he's part of you and you're part of him. And. Yeah, and. But as I've gotten older, man, it's. It's the. It's the wins that almost. There's always this, like, kind of bitter aftertaste of these wins, because I don't. I just. I've always dreamed of that, man. Of, like, having a cool dad. And I have friends of mine that have cool that. My tour manager, Greg, he's been my tour manager for eight years. His dad is. Who drives the tour bus, and I call him Pops. Joel 01:17:14.470 - 01:17:14.870 Yeah. Drew (satsang) 01:17:14.870 - 01:17:38.040 And seeing the relationship that Greg and him have, they're best friends, you know, and I'm. I'm so jealous of it. But for me, how I heal that is, is by being the best dad that I can be, you know, and knowing that Malachi, win, loss, divorce, triumph, whatever he's gonna call me, I love. Joel 01:17:38.040 - 01:17:47.200 I love a man. I. I love that video where I think someone asked your son, like, would your dad beat up the other dads? Doubt. Yeah. Drew (satsang) 01:17:47.760 - 01:18:16.410 He's been so. He's grown up, bro. I mean, he's grown up in an MMA gym. I coach fighters full time, you know, when I'm. When I'm not on the road. So. What's funny, bro? That's the only video I've ever had go viral. It's got like 3. 3 Million views. Like, that thing popped. Which is so funny because I'm like, dude, I share a thing about tour dates, and it gets like 200 likes, and then this kid comes in talking about me beating up his friend's dads, and it gets 100,000 comments, of course. Joel 01:18:16.730 - 01:18:19.850 That's hilarious, bro. So much for your time, man. Drew (satsang) 01:18:20.090 - 01:18:21.210 Yeah, thank you, guys. Joel 01:18:21.290 - 01:18:58.510 We appreciate it. Everyone listening, like, this man's music is genuinely, like, incredible. It's deep. It's not vulgar. It's. You can listen to it whenever. It's just straight vibes, you know, like, we've got this playing, like, in the kitchen. It's universally accessible and digestible. I think that's what I love about it most. It's like, you play. You blend genres and melodies in such an interesting way where, like, I feel like it suits so many moods and so, like, it's just such a go to for me. And it's like what I feel like listening to. And it's like, oh, you know, it's that song. It fits. It just always fits, which is what I really like about it. Drew (satsang) 01:18:59.230 - 01:19:10.990 Yeah, I appreciate it. I'm. Yeah, man. I just want to make music that makes people feel better, you know? So, yeah, that's the goal. For me. Joel 01:19:11.070 - 01:19:25.790 So everyone listening, Go check it out. I think he's let us album Elohim. It's like, less than a week old at this point. Or maybe. Maybe a week old, but go check that out. Stream it, follow him on Instagram at satsang. And anything else, bro, you'd like to direct our audience with at this point in time? Drew (satsang) 01:19:26.510 - 01:19:29.150 No. Listen to that new record and send it to someone that you love. Joel 01:19:29.390 - 01:19:33.790 Yeah, totally. All right, y', all, thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.